you sure it's an air freshener in a space ship it might be a cheapo co2 scrubber when you think about it for all you know as it would make more sense then an air freshener in a space ship since you want clean breathable air and there's more then odors to worry about on a space ship in that scenario
@@TheKingTywinLannister Their ship wasn't about to blow before they activated jump engines. So their choices were: A) Use own jump engines and explode infront of everyone B) Use jumpgate and have repairable ship for the rest of the war to save hundreds of Narns. If not repairable..they could strip it for spare parts. I mean usually ships use their own jump engines when it's tactically needed. These engines are high maintenance..so it's smart to use jump engine when possible.
@@TheKingTywinLannister Id say after the third, the whole protomolekule storyline and the earth mars war was great, but generally i agree. After the third season it really dropped off, with season 5 being the worst in my book.
Wonderful symbolism in the Narn and Centauri capital ships destroying each other. No one wins. They're both dying races that will never achieve "First One" status like the Minbari and Humans eventually will. Also, I'll be the Narn gunner at 2:00 feels guilty. Had he made those hits his ship would have been victorious.
uhhh... the humans were as screwed up if I remember right... other than those that joined the rangers... hell, if i remember right, in the last episode earth is 'nuked' back to the middle ages by other humans to restart over again under 'ranger' guidance....
@@knand9936 Yes but in the final season they also show in the end they still reach First One status, becoming pure energy like the Vorlons. They then left their Solar System to their new home of New Earth which was once the Vorlon's homeplanet.
@@ionfreak83 The key part is that it took an external organization like the Rangers to 'fix' things. Pretty sure the same could have happened to the other 'younger' races. We never find out, as the ending doesn't dwell on that..
Some say it doesn't, but honestly, it really does. The main issue is resolution. JMS says they're working on a B5 remake for the CW, so people will really appreciate the graphics of the original if that comes out
@@InfernosReaper I hope they don't. JMS is an exceptionally skilled storyteller, but he lives in the hollyweird bubble. Any B5 remake is going to end up as woke garbage. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not excited about ANY remakes.
@@OmegaTou Honestly, unless they go with "what the story would've been if O'Hare didn't have to bow out for health reasons" I don't see any point to a remake.
@@InfernosReaper I'd rather see this JMS (I don't even known what JMS stands for to be honest) using the original B5 masters (if they still exist) and just update the CGI. The original B5 storytelling was superb in my opinion and the only thing that might need some polish would be the CGI scenes as those feel a bit dated these days (but still watchable). A remake will most likely end in disaster as nearly every remake currently coming out of Hollywierd is woke garbage. So I'd rather keep the classics instead of seeing them all ruined by these 'remakes' just because Hollywierd wants to cram their political messaging down our throats. I don't need a black pansexual commander Sheridan or other wierd stuff. The sad part is that Hollywierd just can't make anything original anymore. It's all just remakes and reboots. Practically all their creativity is gone and they can only take good movies/series and ruin them. Now there are exceptions as I really enjoyed the new Battlestar Galactica series, but that one was before all the woke crap started. Nowadays it's just not worth it. Cowboy Bebop live adaptation FAIL, Ghostbusters 2016 FAIL, Terminator Dark Fate FAIL, Wonder Woman 1984 FAIL, Charlie's Angels (2019) FAIL, Men in Black International FAIL, that new LotR series will also FAIL with elves that look like Don Lemon and beardless dwarf queens (it's like they didn't even bother reading the source material and just have a list of woke checkboxes for inclusivity token characters) etc. etc. You'd have to think how long Hollywierd can keep failing before they get the memo that we don't want their woke crap shoved down our throats... The reason people watch movies and tv-series is to get away from all the political BS; not to get the exact same political BS fed to us through these reboots/remakes. It's also why I shifted from watching movies/series that come out of the US in favor of watching Anime. Come to think of it, the only series I've actually enjoyed lately were Lucifer and The Mandalorian. So yeah, take the original Babylon 5, update the CGI, but leave everything else exactly the same. That way they would likely appease the (still) many avid B5 fans and potentially make tons of cash with such a special updated CGI edition. I'd be more than willing to buy the entire "Enhanced CGI" series on bluray (because I'm not into streaming as I like to own my products instead of renting access to them).😉
@@DanakarEndeel I do agree than B5 needs an upscaling and some updated CGI. Also, like I said, the original series had points where things went in a different direction from how they were originally planned because of various issues that came up over the production of the series. *That* does lend itself well to the potential of a remake that doesn't necessarily invalidate the original. If there is going to be a remake, about the only person who might even have a chance at getting it right would be the guy who created Babylon 5, Joseph Michael Straczynski(JMS)
Interesting that Narn heavy cruisers are fairly evenly matched against Centauri battlecruisers one on one. Had the Shadows not been helping, the Centauri may well have lost that war.
@@snugglyhugs8698 Yes, exactly. The Narn were up and coming, and the Centauri were in decadence and decay. That's why they were so vulnerable towards the Shadows' offer to help them make their empire what it used to be.
Centari Vorchan, I think were supperiour as the battlecruisers were quite old. Those medium warships were faster and appeared on the show to be more reliable.
Yes really the narn.is.very powerful.navy but is.very small in.comparision , the narn planetary defence really no is.a strong ( imagine the aegis god plataform 3 or 4 in narn prime ) the centauri cant shot they asteroids with impunity
@@mihugong3153 Before that war, the Centauri had an Emperor who held the military back because he felt bad about what his people had done to the Narn, which didn't help... That and in this the Narn ship got in decisive hits before the Centauri ship could react
I wonder what the cleanup budget for Babylon 5 is per year; considering the number of ships that get damaged or blown up around the station, it would be a navigational nightmare without a dedicated team cleaning up after it. Of course debris may fly off into space, but like what's recently happened with the ISS, some of it may end up orbiting around. And there are no shields on Babylon 5 or many other ships.
They have the MaintBots who collect bigger pieces, plus yellow coloured work ships based on the Star Fury design. With multiple hulls on the station, small impactors are not very dangerous; while the big pieces get collected.
In the fifth season episode A View From the Gallery the two maintenance guys Mac and Bo complain that the big wigs fight these battles and don't think about the maintenance guys like them who have to clean up all the debris and have to fix all the damage.
@@avae5343 In the episode they were given a chance to stay and Sheridan/Ivanova even requested they don't try to jump with damaged engines. They didn't have to rush out of there and could have taken a few min to repair their engines enough to make the jump later. They could have gone full burn away from the conflict zone to buy themselves more time as well. Either way, it was a pointless waste of life and resources.
@@snugglyhugs8698 They’re Narn. They probably didn’t realize their jump engines were damaged. The is a recurring theme throughout B5, Narn inability to technologically inovate.
Without the shadows they destroyed one another which kept the peace the shadows tipped the favor to the centauri the narn was was persecuted a great deal but it was interesting to see Lando molari and vir cotto that saw it wasn't a good idea but to vir credit he said and did something about it
Yes this was true delen explained it to G'kar without the shadows however the centauri would of used more banned weapons then the narns would have also remember what kosh said that they would end up destroying each other but on the initial war the narn were winning
In B5 there's an electromagnetic defence systems. They use EM field for dodging incoming bursts of charged particles. Doesn't work with lasers btw, as we seen.
Whoever is on the damn laser turret of the narn ship deserves a promotion. Whoever is on the turrets deserves a demotion. You had 15 shots and missed 10 of them.
The B5 Turrets are automatic turrets. And they often miss, because when the fighters realize, that they are targeted, their ships change the movement and the turrets cannot adjust fast enough. Don't forget, they are flying there around the base with Mach 3 to 5 (which is not difficult, as they have no air or gravity, so the pilot don't feels anything about the sudden changes of inertia).
@@acmenipponair You definitely do feel the g forces with any acceleration or deceleration of your vehicle in open space. Any engine burn or change of trajectory maneuvers will involve the effects of inertia. Star Trek and the more advanced ships in the B5 universe (e.g.: White Star) have "inertial dampeners" to neutralize these effects. Otherwise, every time the Enterprise came out of warp and instantly parked in front of another ship or the White Star did one of its famous high speed "flips", the crews would be splattered on the bulkheads.
@@Prizrak-hv6qk One thing I loved about B5 was that the sheer ability to just maneuver without having to worry (as much) about G-forces and inertia instantly gave the older races a huge advantage in combat. It wasn't about weapon yields or sheer ability to move fast, it was the ability to counteract basic physics that put the Minbari or the Centauri even, above the Earth vessels, at least in the opening seasons of the show. By the end, yes, they all ended up on a more even footing. It was a nice change of pace from Trek where Humans are always at the top of the "food chain", so to speak....at least until the Borg come along in TNG.
Babylon 5 ran after the start of the first Gulf War. That was really the first time "war as TV entertainment" became a thing... It was definitely the first to heavily use that vantage point to tell a story because it was contemporaneous with the rise of it. This episode was great and well written!
I am surprised that they both missed so many shots at each other. They are both pretty large targets so it seems like they shouldn't miss but somehow they do.
I believe it was Straczynski himself commenting on this in Usenet groups back in the day that both parties are always using electronic jamming against the other’s targeting computers, and that’s the reason they constantly needed adapting; shoot, see where it goes, adjust accordingly, rinse & repeat until you hit something :)
@@LostInTheFarmersMarket yep... I just wanted to point out that people have actually been earnestly asking that very same question since the 1990s (and that there is indeed a reason in the canon) :D
B5 is/was a neutral station but in moments like this, it would be satisfying if they would have just said "fuck these idiots" and Destroy both Ships for Fighting in a neutral Zone. In Space you must stand your Ground xD
Pretty sure Babylon 5 would've gotten heavily damaged, if not destroyed, in such an endeavor though...Centauri and to a certain extent Narn firepower (being reverse engineered off old Centauri tech)...while nothing like Minbari firepower is nothing to sneeze at....pretty sure Babylon 5 had a hard time taking down just the one Primus in another episode...the addition of Narn firepower in this engagement likely wouldn't've been good for Babylon 5
Just because a G’quan fought a Primus to a standstill it’s tempting to believe Narn and Centauri are equal. They’re not. The Narn built a big ship and slapped some big guns on it but there’s a lot more to fighting a war than guns. Logistics, Intelligence gathering, range, deployment time, tactical skill and discipline. In all these fields the Centauri left the Narn in the dust. The Shadows certainly helped but the Centauri would always have beaten the Narn if they had the political will to do so. The Shadows merely turned a costly victory into an easy win, so the Centauri could go on to attack other worlds freely.
@poiujnbvcxdswq and yet In the future visions Galen showed Sheridan the Centauri easily wiped the floor with Earthforce, and that’s with their upgraded Warlock destroyers. Sheridan didn’t question it at all. During the Shadow war the Centauri went to war with 12 of their neighbours at once, and weren’t weakened at all. The Centauri perceived weakness came from political and social stagnation, never military or logistical lack.
One thing that I don't get is why the Narn ship didn't just use the jump gate after the battle as they had to know from there damage control readouts that the jump engines had been damaged by the Centauri ion blasts.
@@SantomPh Jump gates cannot be powered down that quickly. In the fifth season episode A View from the Gallery Bo asks Mac why they just don't shut down the jump gate whenever danger threatens. Mac reminds him that to power down the gate takes three days as does powering it back up to try to rush either procedures would result in the gate exploding.
@@AndrewJamesWilliams Absolutely true and also it would take weeks to set the gate up again. Don't forget, part of how the jumpgates work is still a mystery to the humans, they bought the technology from the Centauri and reverse engineered them, and even the Centauri found their own jumpgate already existing when they started going to the stars.
What you hear during such battles is the electrostatic induction of the beams in the hull of your own vessel. If you hear it, it missed you. You wont hear a hit. Only wrong thing in all the movies, you should hear it after you see it. There is a lag between seeing the ray and hearing the wave of the inductive field passing your ship. And the real rays aren't that visible, what you can see is the ionized particles of interstellar dust and solar wind. There are flares in the rays and it dims them if there is too much. Bright rays means a lot of dust and a fast dim. The darker the ray the more energy hits the target. They make it different in inaccurate for drama, for the looks, but in reality it's bs.
I'm pretty sure the only thing special about the Minbari fleet is that they developed some tech that makes them hard to hit, which is overpowered as all hell in space.
@@johnkonig865 that and the Minbari beam weapons could carve up several destroyers like Thanksgiving turkeys in a matter of seconds...so even if the EA could've overcame the targeting computer jamming tech they were using they were still vulnerable to what were insanely powerful beam weapons
The Narn Ship was damaged heavily at their jump drive and still tried to jump. That's like the Enterprise trying to warp why one of the narcelles is destroyed. This mistake (I don't know why they did that, instead of using the Jumpgate) killed them, because the ships reactor overloaded when they tried to jump.
Of course there is, the sound just doesn't travel by air, so it would probably sound a lot different than it does in the show, but the particles of each shot, impact and movement would still fly till they're stopped by something, so you would definitively hear them impact on your ship, and with that comes sound.
Yeah, I believe that in the long term, the Centauri would win but it would be too costly for their declining empire and a cease fire would be the only option for both.
My only issue with B5 capitol ship fights is the number of misses. At the ranges being illustrated you have a better hit probably using the good old mark1 eye ball.
Did they ever release technicals about what actually went into those fights? In the Honorverse, trying to do capital combat without computers and ECCM is literally impossible.
most ships fire in a line of sight approach. The Shadows are virtually the only race that uses panoramic targeting. The Minbari have scramblers that render lock on difficult if not impossible, as do the Vorlons and the White Star Fleet. Hence evasive maneuvers are the order of the day, plus firing can be delayed because your own ship is avoiding damage. If we watch the battle at Proxima 3 (Earthforce vs White Stars)we see the Earthforce ships lumbering along with only point defence and trying to fire forward at the nimble White Stars. A White Star is taken out and crashes into an Earthforce brick that it foolishly tried to go toe to toe with in a frontal duel. Or in Severed Dreams where the Alexander was running from a Hyperion cruiser and was getting hammered because it was right in front of it- then later moves itself into a good position to blast the Agrippa. Ships dodge and weave for the most part in Babylon 5, and only attack when directly facing their opponent. Even if the Minbari battleship and Centauri warship seemed to look like they were in a slow dogfight, they are trying to fire at where the opponent was rather then where they are. Both ships fire smaller rounds in other directions to tag their opponent, but their main weapons miss until the Narn battleship manages to nail the Centauri ship's prow, but itself takes major damage from the main guns of the Centauri ship, damaging their engines and their power grid, causing jump failure and destruction.
@@SantomPh I know part of lore about Minbari jammers. It seems though if your digital radar/ECM targeting is not working due to jamming. A logical person would look outside and come to the observation, why can't we just install good OPTIC on our guns and shoot the 300 meter long target which appears to be maximum 3-5 miles away. This is space and Earth Force Ships appears to be a stable shooting platform. Especially with energy based weapons.......Now my entire post is about a logical problem for a TV show. The distances shown were a technical limitation to the CGI and a story telling artifact. In reality, combat would be like expanse with ships rarely if ever being in line of sight. Later and thanks for the reply.
@@DavidKnowles0 I can only go with what the show illustrated and only the Shadows had any type of visible spectrum cloaking ability. The Narn, Centari, Minbari, Humans, and Non-aligned worlds all appear to not have visable spectrum cloaking. if the ranges which the show illustrates is accurate in the Universe, It would seem likely that optical targeting would be a good alterative. Remember, prior to development of RADAR, good ole mark 1 eyeball with different types of sights could accurately shot down Aircraft at 30K feet traveling 280 miles and hour with a projectile traveling about 2800 feet per second. That is a lot of Trigonometry for a analog system but still possible. Not let's make that easier by using a Laser type weapon that travels at the speed of light. Additionally, none of the capital class ships except for Shadows appear to be that nimble. The plasma weapons in B5 appear to be an analog of projectiles so maybe those would not work. Later.
At one point, it looks like the Narn ship suffers a small explosion near its ventral engines right before the Centauri weapon impacts. Was that in the original video, or a result of the upsampling?
I wonder, why these Narns still tried to jump into hyperspace, when they had this blow by the Centauris... They could have used the jumpgate instead. You know, the jumpgates are not secured, any race is allowed to use them.
Reminiscent of fights between capital ships in the last century. It took a few shots to get the range right. These two had no trouble hitting with their beam weapons, though.
@@danieldickson8591 Guess the question is why didn't the narns hit them with beam weapons first, I guess that might because they need to recharge after jumping but still.
@@danieldickson8591 no, the thing with B5 is that the universe takes into account electronic warfare. Almost every ship in the setting uses some sort of E-War suite. The Minbari are just the ones with the most effective E-War suite in the setting (i.e. unless you're pulling a 'there is no spoon' with your sensors (in this case, using the effects of a ship on hyperspace), the best you can do is a simple silhouette).
@@DavidKnowles0 Because Beam Weapons of the lower races are not really effective. Only the Minbari have good beam weapons, even the Earth ones are just ... huge. It's not like Star Trek, where Phasers can do great damage to your opponents bridge by overloading the energy grid. The Beam weapons just don't do much with Narn or Centauri.
@@danieldickson8591You’ve got it the wrong way around. The G’kar’s uncles the admiral of the fleet which tried to attacked the Centauri supply depot on Gorash said they were losing the war, hence why they decided to pull together as many cruisers as they could and launch the assault on Gorash to buy time.
I only wish JMS got the original 5 years he wanted to start with, he had to rush everything in season 4 and season 5 has really no continuity at all its not very good. I still watch it all the time though, just stop after season 4.
![Quando Rondo - Grow Up [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8zFnCg3BO4Q/mqdefault.jpg)
0:00 that air freshener hanging on the bridge is a nice touch 🌲
you sure it's an air freshener in a space ship it might be a cheapo co2 scrubber when you think about it for all you know as it would make more sense then an air freshener in a space ship since you want clean breathable air and there's more then odors to worry about on a space ship in that scenario
Narns just never catch a break. Even when they win, they lose.
Probably shouldn't have been in such a rush to use the jump engine, especially when there's a perfectly good jump gate right there
They wanted to exit proudly as victorious fully aware that their ship is going to blow very soon anyways
@@TheKingTywinLannister
Their ship wasn't about to blow before they activated jump engines. So their choices were: A) Use own jump engines and explode infront of everyone B) Use jumpgate and have repairable ship for the rest of the war to save hundreds of Narns. If not repairable..they could strip it for spare parts.
I mean usually ships use their own jump engines when it's tactically needed. These engines are high maintenance..so it's smart to use jump engine when possible.
Yep. Sounds like that dearly beloved country of mine.
I never understood why they tried to jump out manually instead of using the gate
And that is why Babylon 5 is one of the best sci fi series to date
Haha
And then Expanse
@@seanrobert9661 nah. Expanse went to trash after first season… sadly
@@TheKingTywinLannister Id say after the third, the whole protomolekule storyline and the earth mars war was great, but generally i agree. After the third season it really dropped off, with season 5 being the worst in my book.
Wonderful symbolism in the Narn and Centauri capital ships destroying each other. No one wins. They're both dying races that will never achieve "First One" status like the Minbari and Humans eventually will. Also, I'll be the Narn gunner at 2:00 feels guilty. Had he made those hits his ship would have been victorious.
It's also representative of the profound hatred between their races.
uhhh... the humans were as screwed up if I remember right... other than those that joined the rangers... hell, if i remember right, in the last episode earth is 'nuked' back to the middle ages by other humans to restart over again under 'ranger' guidance....
@@knand9936 Yes but in the final season they also show in the end they still reach First One status, becoming pure energy like the Vorlons. They then left their Solar System to their new home of New Earth which was once the Vorlon's homeplanet.
@@ionfreak83 The key part is that it took an external organization like the Rangers to 'fix' things. Pretty sure the same could have happened to the other 'younger' races. We never find out, as the ending doesn't dwell on that..
@@knand9936 the destruction was not from humanity, rather the shadow's allies.
Narns have the clear advantage because their camouflage allows their ships to blend into their jungle surroundings 💪💪
Reminds me when Narn Prime had forest and jungles before the Centauries stript the planet to a Desert =/
The CGI of Babylon 5 hold up remarkably well.
Some say it doesn't, but honestly, it really does. The main issue is resolution. JMS says they're working on a B5 remake for the CW, so people will really appreciate the graphics of the original if that comes out
@@InfernosReaper I hope they don't. JMS is an exceptionally skilled storyteller, but he lives in the hollyweird bubble. Any B5 remake is going to end up as woke garbage. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not excited about ANY remakes.
@@OmegaTou Honestly, unless they go with "what the story would've been if O'Hare didn't have to bow out for health reasons" I don't see any point to a remake.
@@InfernosReaper I'd rather see this JMS (I don't even known what JMS stands for to be honest) using the original B5 masters (if they still exist) and just update the CGI. The original B5 storytelling was superb in my opinion and the only thing that might need some polish would be the CGI scenes as those feel a bit dated these days (but still watchable). A remake will most likely end in disaster as nearly every remake currently coming out of Hollywierd is woke garbage. So I'd rather keep the classics instead of seeing them all ruined by these 'remakes' just because Hollywierd wants to cram their political messaging down our throats. I don't need a black pansexual commander Sheridan or other wierd stuff.
The sad part is that Hollywierd just can't make anything original anymore. It's all just remakes and reboots. Practically all their creativity is gone and they can only take good movies/series and ruin them. Now there are exceptions as I really enjoyed the new Battlestar Galactica series, but that one was before all the woke crap started. Nowadays it's just not worth it. Cowboy Bebop live adaptation FAIL, Ghostbusters 2016 FAIL, Terminator Dark Fate FAIL, Wonder Woman 1984 FAIL, Charlie's Angels (2019) FAIL, Men in Black International FAIL, that new LotR series will also FAIL with elves that look like Don Lemon and beardless dwarf queens (it's like they didn't even bother reading the source material and just have a list of woke checkboxes for inclusivity token characters) etc. etc.
You'd have to think how long Hollywierd can keep failing before they get the memo that we don't want their woke crap shoved down our throats... The reason people watch movies and tv-series is to get away from all the political BS; not to get the exact same political BS fed to us through these reboots/remakes. It's also why I shifted from watching movies/series that come out of the US in favor of watching Anime. Come to think of it, the only series I've actually enjoyed lately were Lucifer and The Mandalorian.
So yeah, take the original Babylon 5, update the CGI, but leave everything else exactly the same. That way they would likely appease the (still) many avid B5 fans and potentially make tons of cash with such a special updated CGI edition. I'd be more than willing to buy the entire "Enhanced CGI" series on bluray (because I'm not into streaming as I like to own my products instead of renting access to them).😉
@@DanakarEndeel I do agree than B5 needs an upscaling and some updated CGI.
Also, like I said, the original series had points where things went in a different direction from how they were originally planned because of various issues that came up over the production of the series. *That* does lend itself well to the potential of a remake that doesn't necessarily invalidate the original.
If there is going to be a remake, about the only person who might even have a chance at getting it right would be the guy who created Babylon 5, Joseph Michael Straczynski(JMS)
Just a little war on your doorstep. Nothing to worry about. Unless you live in Brown sector.
Brown sector, more than just the colour on the walls.
Everything is worse in brown sector.
did you brown yourself in brown sector?🤣🤣
Interesting that Narn heavy cruisers are fairly evenly matched against Centauri battlecruisers one on one. Had the Shadows not been helping, the Centauri may well have lost that war.
Before the shadows intervened, the Centauri were losing. But once Mr. Mordin stepped in, everything changed.
@@snugglyhugs8698 Yes, exactly. The Narn were up and coming, and the Centauri were in decadence and decay. That's why they were so vulnerable towards the Shadows' offer to help them make their empire what it used to be.
Centari Vorchan, I think were supperiour as the battlecruisers were quite old. Those medium warships were faster and appeared on the show to be more reliable.
Yes really the narn.is.very powerful.navy but is.very small in.comparision , the narn planetary defence really no is.a strong ( imagine the aegis god plataform 3 or 4 in narn prime ) the centauri cant shot they asteroids with impunity
@@mihugong3153 Before that war, the Centauri had an Emperor who held the military back because he felt bad about what his people had done to the Narn, which didn't help...
That and in this the Narn ship got in decisive hits before the Centauri ship could react
This is what made the show great! Showing the fight from maintenance bots. Innovative!!!!
why, i use maintenance bots for spying since 40 Years?
I wonder what the cleanup budget for Babylon 5 is per year; considering the number of ships that get damaged or blown up around the station, it would be a navigational nightmare without a dedicated team cleaning up after it. Of course debris may fly off into space, but like what's recently happened with the ISS, some of it may end up orbiting around.
And there are no shields on Babylon 5 or many other ships.
They have the MaintBots who collect bigger pieces, plus yellow coloured work ships based on the Star Fury design. With multiple hulls on the station, small impactors are not very dangerous; while the big pieces get collected.
@@AlexJones-ue1ll True, though when it comes to the small pieces, I'd imagine that they'd be HUGE hazards for Starfuries and shuttlecraft.
At the end the cleanup of Babylon 5 itself after it is decommissioned becomes an issue.
In the fifth season episode A View From the Gallery the two maintenance guys Mac and Bo complain that the big wigs fight these battles and don't think about the maintenance guys like them who have to clean up all the debris and have to fix all the damage.
@@AndrewJamesWilliams Neat! It's been so long that I don't remember that dialogue. Glad that they mention it. lol
Mutual assured destruction. Now that's realism.
The Narn ship would have been fine if it hadn't tried to jump away. Silly Narns.
@@snugglyhugs8698I think they had to leave because B5 isn’t some lawless area of space.
@@avae5343 In the episode they were given a chance to stay and Sheridan/Ivanova even requested they don't try to jump with damaged engines. They didn't have to rush out of there and could have taken a few min to repair their engines enough to make the jump later. They could have gone full burn away from the conflict zone to buy themselves more time as well.
Either way, it was a pointless waste of life and resources.
@@snugglyhugs8698 They’re Narn. They probably didn’t realize their jump engines were damaged. The is a recurring theme throughout B5, Narn inability to technologically inovate.
@@avae5343 Found the xenospeciesist.
"We don't need assistance!"
"That's nice, we're still attacking this unescorted enemy battlecruiser."
Fantastic episode. And nice vid!
still one of the best.
Without the shadows they destroyed one another which kept the peace the shadows tipped the favor to the centauri the narn was was persecuted a great deal but it was interesting to see Lando molari and vir cotto that saw it wasn't a good idea but to vir credit he said and did something about it
slow down, use punctuation.
IIRC until the intervention of the Shadows, the Narns were winning against the Centauri.
Yes this was true delen explained it to G'kar without the shadows however the centauri would of used more banned weapons then the narns would have also remember what kosh said that they would end up destroying each other but on the initial war the narn were winning
@@nat51543 centauri also seem to have a limitless ability to build ships.
I guess the first shots are aimed to take out the other ships sensors, then they both battle on blind.
According to one of the other commenters Stracynski says both sides use jammers so they have to just wing it.
In B5 there's an electromagnetic defence systems. They use EM field for dodging incoming bursts of charged particles. Doesn't work with lasers btw, as we seen.
@@Boritis Defense Grid is interceptors who shoot at energy bolts which is a fk amazingly advanced system...and some EM fields in the hull/armour.
Still a better love story that StarTrek Discovery/Picard!
Still a better love story than Twilight.
This was the exact moment G'Kar became Heisenberg
Whoever is on the damn laser turret of the narn ship deserves a promotion. Whoever is on the turrets deserves a demotion. You had 15 shots and missed 10 of them.
The B5 Turrets are automatic turrets. And they often miss, because when the fighters realize, that they are targeted, their ships change the movement and the turrets cannot adjust fast enough. Don't forget, they are flying there around the base with Mach 3 to 5 (which is not difficult, as they have no air or gravity, so the pilot don't feels anything about the sudden changes of inertia).
@@acmenipponair You definitely do feel the g forces with any acceleration or deceleration of your vehicle in open space. Any engine burn or change of trajectory maneuvers will involve the effects of inertia. Star Trek and the more advanced ships in the B5 universe (e.g.: White Star) have "inertial dampeners" to neutralize these effects. Otherwise, every time the Enterprise came out of warp and instantly parked in front of another ship or the White Star did one of its famous high speed "flips", the crews would be splattered on the bulkheads.
@@Prizrak-hv6qk One thing I loved about B5 was that the sheer ability to just maneuver without having to worry (as much) about G-forces and inertia instantly gave the older races a huge advantage in combat. It wasn't about weapon yields or sheer ability to move fast, it was the ability to counteract basic physics that put the Minbari or the Centauri even, above the Earth vessels, at least in the opening seasons of the show. By the end, yes, they all ended up on a more even footing. It was a nice change of pace from Trek where Humans are always at the top of the "food chain", so to speak....at least until the Borg come along in TNG.
@@acmenipponair Was referring to the Narn cruiser not the fighters.
This show was way ahead of it's time to depict a battle from this point of view as not an entertaining space battle but in a real sense
Babylon 5 ran after the start of the first Gulf War. That was really the first time "war as TV entertainment" became a thing... It was definitely the first to heavily use that vantage point to tell a story because it was contemporaneous with the rise of it. This episode was great and well written!
I am surprised that they both missed so many shots at each other. They are both pretty large targets so it seems like they shouldn't miss but somehow they do.
both of their targeting computers were running Windows 95.
I believe it was Straczynski himself commenting on this in Usenet groups back in the day that both parties are always using electronic jamming against the other’s targeting computers, and that’s the reason they constantly needed adapting; shoot, see where it goes, adjust accordingly, rinse & repeat until you hit something :)
@@uttula My comment was 100% in jest and not in any way serious.
@@LostInTheFarmersMarket yep... I just wanted to point out that people have actually been earnestly asking that very same question since the 1990s (and that there is indeed a reason in the canon) :D
@@uttula That's fair, I know there's a good in-universe reason B5 had great writing and universe development.
B5 is/was a neutral station but in moments like this, it would be satisfying if they would have just said "fuck these idiots" and Destroy both Ships for Fighting in a neutral Zone.
In Space you must stand your Ground xD
Pretty sure Babylon 5 would've gotten heavily damaged, if not destroyed, in such an endeavor though...Centauri and to a certain extent Narn firepower (being reverse engineered off old Centauri tech)...while nothing like Minbari firepower is nothing to sneeze at....pretty sure Babylon 5 had a hard time taking down just the one Primus in another episode...the addition of Narn firepower in this engagement likely wouldn't've been good for Babylon 5
Always find it amazing that light speed weapons miss in sci fi .
and where has it been said in the show that the weapons fired at light speed? NO WHERE
Pulse weapons in B5 are not lightspeed weapons.
This is why Babylon 5 was a great show.
Just because a G’quan fought a Primus to a standstill it’s tempting to believe Narn and Centauri are equal. They’re not. The Narn built a big ship and slapped some big guns on it but there’s a lot more to fighting a war than guns. Logistics, Intelligence gathering, range, deployment time, tactical skill and discipline. In all these fields the Centauri left the Narn in the dust. The Shadows certainly helped but the Centauri would always have beaten the Narn if they had the political will to do so. The Shadows merely turned a costly victory into an easy win, so the Centauri could go on to attack other worlds freely.
The Narn are "glass cannon" builders who attach powerful weapons to rickety frames.
The Narn were losing even before the battle of Gorash. It was internal Centauri decadence which led the Narn to believe they had a chance.
@poiujnbvcxdswq and yet In the future visions Galen showed Sheridan the Centauri easily wiped the floor with Earthforce, and that’s with their upgraded Warlock destroyers. Sheridan didn’t question it at all. During the Shadow war the Centauri went to war with 12 of their neighbours at once, and weren’t weakened at all. The Centauri perceived weakness came from political and social stagnation, never military or logistical lack.
@@mattwho81and it totally could be a small EA task force fighting a whole Centauri fleet... We don't know.
Great video from the maintenance bots. They paid the price.
One thing that I don't get is why the Narn ship didn't just use the jump gate after the battle as they had to know from there damage control readouts that the jump engines had been damaged by the Centauri ion blasts.
the jumpgate is controlled by Babylon 5, they may have shut it off due to the fighting.
@@SantomPh Jump gates cannot be powered down that quickly. In the fifth season episode A View from the Gallery Bo asks Mac why they just don't shut down the jump gate whenever danger threatens. Mac reminds him that to power down the gate takes three days as does powering it back up to try to rush either procedures would result in the gate exploding.
@@AndrewJamesWilliams Absolutely true and also it would take weeks to set the gate up again. Don't forget, part of how the jumpgates work is still a mystery to the humans, they bought the technology from the Centauri and reverse engineered them, and even the Centauri found their own jumpgate already existing when they started going to the stars.
They didn’t want to deal with Ivanova
Who is to say B5 wouldn’t put a squadron of starfuries in front of the gate?
Babylon 5. A lonely beacon in space for hope and peace... Or so they said.
You got to love hearing the sounds of battle in a vacuum
What you hear during such battles is the electrostatic induction of the beams in the hull of your own vessel. If you hear it, it missed you. You wont hear a hit. Only wrong thing in all the movies, you should hear it after you see it. There is a lag between seeing the ray and hearing the wave of the inductive field passing your ship. And the real rays aren't that visible, what you can see is the ionized particles of interstellar dust and solar wind. There are flares in the rays and it dims them if there is too much. Bright rays means a lot of dust and a fast dim. The darker the ray the more energy hits the target. They make it different in inaccurate for drama, for the looks, but in reality it's bs.
How did they missed their shots at slow, almost static, targets from such a close range?
So from what I can see, the thing that separates the Mimbari from the rest is they don’t miss. That was a lot of missed shots!!!
I'm pretty sure the only thing special about the Minbari fleet is that they developed some tech that makes them hard to hit, which is overpowered as all hell in space.
@@johnkonig865 that and the Minbari beam weapons could carve up several destroyers like Thanksgiving turkeys in a matter of seconds...so even if the EA could've overcame the targeting computer jamming tech they were using they were still vulnerable to what were insanely powerful beam weapons
narn ships blow up quite easy
To be fair, that Narn cruiser took heavy damage.
The Narn Ship was damaged heavily at their jump drive and still tried to jump. That's like the Enterprise trying to warp why one of the narcelles is destroyed. This mistake (I don't know why they did that, instead of using the Jumpgate) killed them, because the ships reactor overloaded when they tried to jump.
The only time a Narn cruiser actually won any engagement and it still blew up.
Interesting fact. There is no sound in space.
Of course there is, the sound just doesn't travel by air, so it would probably sound a lot different than it does in the show, but the particles of each shot, impact and movement would still fly till they're stopped by something, so you would definitively hear them impact on your ship, and with that comes sound.
Without the Shadows, the Narn and Centrai would have fought to a draw, and would have sued for peace on B5.
Yeah, I believe that in the long term, the Centauri would win but it would be too costly for their declining empire and a cease fire would be the only option for both.
This was very strongly implied to be the likely outcome before the Shadows showed up.
They were losing ruclips.net/video/JcXb7o3g6mQ/видео.html
My only issue with B5 capitol ship fights is the number of misses. At the ranges being illustrated you have a better hit probably using the good old mark1 eye ball.
Did they ever release technicals about what actually went into those fights? In the Honorverse, trying to do capital combat without computers and ECCM is literally impossible.
most ships fire in a line of sight approach. The Shadows are virtually the only race that uses panoramic targeting. The Minbari have scramblers that render lock on difficult if not impossible, as do the Vorlons and the White Star Fleet. Hence evasive maneuvers are the order of the day, plus firing can be delayed because your own ship is avoiding damage.
If we watch the battle at Proxima 3 (Earthforce vs White Stars)we see the Earthforce ships lumbering along with only point defence and trying to fire forward at the nimble White Stars. A White Star is taken out and crashes into an Earthforce brick that it foolishly tried to go toe to toe with in a frontal duel. Or in Severed Dreams where the Alexander was running from a Hyperion cruiser and was getting hammered because it was right in front of it- then later moves itself into a good position to blast the Agrippa.
Ships dodge and weave for the most part in Babylon 5, and only attack when directly facing their opponent. Even if the Minbari battleship and Centauri warship seemed to look like they were in a slow dogfight, they are trying to fire at where the opponent was rather then where they are. Both ships fire smaller rounds in other directions to tag their opponent, but their main weapons miss until the Narn battleship manages to nail the Centauri ship's prow, but itself takes major damage from the main guns of the Centauri ship, damaging their engines and their power grid, causing jump failure and destruction.
@@SantomPh I know part of lore about Minbari jammers. It seems though if your digital radar/ECM targeting is not working due to jamming. A logical person would look outside and come to the observation, why can't we just install good OPTIC on our guns and shoot the 300 meter long target which appears to be maximum 3-5 miles away. This is space and Earth Force Ships appears to be a stable shooting platform. Especially with energy based weapons.......Now my entire post is about a logical problem for a TV show. The distances shown were a technical limitation to the CGI and a story telling artifact. In reality, combat would be like expanse with ships rarely if ever being in line of sight. Later and thanks for the reply.
@@grast5150 But that should stop optics from detecting them, unless they are hundred of thousands of kilometres away.
@@DavidKnowles0 I can only go with what the show illustrated and only the Shadows had any type of visible spectrum cloaking ability. The Narn, Centari, Minbari, Humans, and Non-aligned worlds all appear to not have visable spectrum cloaking. if the ranges which the show illustrates is accurate in the Universe, It would seem likely that optical targeting would be a good alterative. Remember, prior to development of RADAR, good ole mark 1 eyeball with different types of sights could accurately shot down Aircraft at 30K feet traveling 280 miles and hour with a projectile traveling about 2800 feet per second. That is a lot of Trigonometry for a analog system but still possible. Not let's make that easier by using a Laser type weapon that travels at the speed of light. Additionally, none of the capital class ships except for Shadows appear to be that nimble. The plasma weapons in B5 appear to be an analog of projectiles so maybe those would not work. Later.
The cowardly Narn sneak attacked the Primus.
NICE!!!
nice...
At one point, it looks like the Narn ship suffers a small explosion near its ventral engines right before the Centauri weapon impacts. Was that in the original video, or a result of the upsampling?
Nothing has been altered.
I wonder, why these Narns still tried to jump into hyperspace, when they had this blow by the Centauris... They could have used the jumpgate instead. You know, the jumpgates are not secured, any race is allowed to use them.
I guess capital ships dont lock on a target. They just fire their guns in the general direction and just hope they hit.
almost as good as storm troopers at hitting their targets
Reminiscent of fights between capital ships in the last century. It took a few shots to get the range right. These two had no trouble hitting with their beam weapons, though.
@@danieldickson8591 Guess the question is why didn't the narns hit them with beam weapons first, I guess that might because they need to recharge after jumping but still.
@@danieldickson8591 no, the thing with B5 is that the universe takes into account electronic warfare. Almost every ship in the setting uses some sort of E-War suite. The Minbari are just the ones with the most effective E-War suite in the setting (i.e. unless you're pulling a 'there is no spoon' with your sensors (in this case, using the effects of a ship on hyperspace), the best you can do is a simple silhouette).
@@DavidKnowles0 Because Beam Weapons of the lower races are not really effective. Only the Minbari have good beam weapons, even the Earth ones are just ... huge. It's not like Star Trek, where Phasers can do great damage to your opponents bridge by overloading the energy grid. The Beam weapons just don't do much with Narn or Centauri.
I would have liked to see the narn win more and get destroyed less. But this was an awfully close battle next to C&C. Awsome!
The Narns were winning against the Centauri, until the Shadows intervened.
@@danieldickson8591You’ve got it the wrong way around. The G’kar’s uncles the admiral of the fleet which tried to attacked the Centauri supply depot on Gorash said they were losing the war, hence why they decided to pull together as many cruisers as they could and launch the assault on Gorash to buy time.
The Narn won that one.
wow just like in X-com 2, regardless how close you are, you can still bloody miss. They really need to upgrade the targeting system. So pathic.
💖
Man their weapons are inaccurate.
I only wish JMS got the original 5 years he wanted to start with, he had to rush everything in season 4 and season 5 has really no continuity at all its not very good. I still watch it all the time though, just stop after season 4.
Sha'draka indeed.
Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius. -- "Kill them all; let God sort them out."
They should have used the jump gate instead of using their own jump engines
They can't do that. Babylon 5 controls the jump gate and can block it to all departing ships.
so we don't know what happened to the Centauri ship
It was completely destroyed.