@@robertnett9793 There are a few different Faust stories in German literature. Goethe's Faust was actually not lead into doom. Goethe's Faust was influenced by the devil to be a part of dooming other people like Gretchen, but he himself lived a long life and ultimately went to heaven. The devil lost his bet with god, namely that he could make Faust, the atheist, to fall from the path of god. The first volume is an interesting read, the second volume is to put it mildly mainly confused. You are speaking of the first story about Dr. Faustus not Goethe's adaptation here. The classic Faust tale is one about the classical pact with the devil. Dr. Faustus is only getting mislead by illusions and lies and then has to pay for it with his soul and body.
I can think of a few very "efficient" world "leaders" right now. Of course, when their mistakes are revealed as obvious to the whole planet, they will be long dead and forgotten.
A rare moment where Londo doesn't preen or obfuscate or make his own people out to be more powerful than they are. He was brutally honest, 100% right... and they didn't listen.
But he was, nonetheless, handling arrogant people in the worst way possible: making it so that they _couldn't_ listen to him withour losing face. By the time the "Minbari are one of the oldest" parts came out, those two had already been neatly trapped by their egos into a stupid course of action. And all this just to score points for his _own_ ego with snarky lines and power games. All of which is excellent characte building, mind you. Londo is just as much a prisoner of his own faults as these two are. But he's not being "honest" here, he's catering to his own need of feeling superior, at the cost of the people he's interacting with actually listening to him.
@@anon5789 Not calling them stupid and arrogant to their face would had been a good start. That made the conversation a confrontation and listening to Londo an admission of defeat. And that was entirely intentional. Like I said, Londo plays a power game here at the expense of these two people. That's his nature, at least at this point.
@@anon5789 Those two think of themselves as very smart and unbeatable. Telling them off will make them resist you. A better way would be to plant the idea how not antagonizing the Minbari would be an even smarter move, worthy of strategic geniuses such as them. And tell it in a way that makes them believe it was their own idea in the first place, not pointing it out but leading them to find that conclusion themselves. It's difficult to pull off, requiring great diplomatic skill, which Londo has. It also requires putting your own ego aside and letting others think they are your betters in order to prevent a stupid war. I guess that's one bridge too far for old Londo.
It is a bit more complex than that though. Londo already by the time they use mass drivers to bomb the Narn back into the stone age realized how horribly he went wrong. A substantial amount of later seasons he tries to course correct but as he said to Vir at some point, the blood is already on his hands. This is also why he was distraught about Vir being forced to kill Cartagia, something that Londo wanted to do to spare Vir that same horrible fate of staining your hands with blood. He was also utterly played by Morden later.
Let's be honest, this whole scene was nothing more than a pissing contest, a competition between Londo and those two Earth goons who can act more smug and superior. That's exactly the Londo we know.
Dominic while this is Londo's story he is not being smug. This is very dangerous and stupid. They should have heeded his advice, at least in the short term thinking in the long term thinking it was a good thing they didn't
In the novelisation this is basically what happened. At a party celebrating the victory Londo says that he hates going to funerals and that all the humans around him are deadmen. At which point the first word of minbari attacks come in.
I always hated that Dukhat incident. Open your gun ports at someone who doesn't know your intentions, OF COURSE they might see it as a hostile act. That's not clash of cultures, that's just absolute stupidity. The kernel of the idea isn't bad, but gun ports are a comically bad way to do it. I propose instead, that the Minbari released a small space probe with information about Minbari culture, something to take back to earth and let scientists figure out their language. But the earth ship saw the probe, assumed it was a bomb, and all hell broke loose.
Its funny later in the movie they want Centauri weapons and say "we'll pay any price" and Londo replies "yes..and then WE will pay the price, when the Mimbari come after us for helping you"
@@kingbeauregard To be fair, Minbari assumed that Earthers could tell by looking their sensors that their weapons system was not online. What they didn't know that their radar battery had been so powerful that it not only disrupted their sensors but shutdown their jump engines.
@@Ruosteinenknight I know that is the explanation in the story, but take a step back. If your goal is to minimize the perception of hostility when you're meeting a new race, do you really want to show them how well armed you are? It's just such a bad call that, even though they try to justify it in-universe, it doesn't add up. Especially the Minbari losing their shit over a mistake THEY made.
The novelization of this movie has a great scene where EarthGov is celebrating their "victory" over the ship in that first encounter. Londo is there telling them "if you have families, be with them now" and such. When one Earth soldier says that "the Minbari might be afraid of us now" Londo literally laughs "Minbari afraid of HUMANS?" He then goes on about "I hate attending funerals" and when one soldier says it's not, he replies "It must be. All I see around me are dead men." At which point, the first reports of the Minbari destroying human colonies come in. "Dead. Men."
I guess they DID eventually learn: "Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. *HE* is behind me. *YOU* are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else." (*exit all EarthForce ships, stage left!*) :D
One of my favorite scenes in all of B5... I guess all those ships received orders to return to Earth for the All EarthForce BBQ and Volleyball Game... (LOL)
Earthforce then went looking for Shadow technology to use to try and counterbalance things, which led to the Advanced Omega class destroyer we see in "Between the Darkness and the Light" which gave even the White Stars a lot of trouble.
Nah, more like they they punched the dragon in the face and took out one of his eyes (Dukhat). That made the dragon really really mad. He could have forgiven losing the gold, but an eye ?
True, but if you watch the whole series, you learn that we humans are also creative, clever, loving, joyous, and, in the right circumstances, noble and selfless. "They are better than they think and nobler than they know. They carry within them the capacity to walk among the stars like giants. They are the future, and we have much to learn from them." - Delenn This is why we are among the Younger Races that eventually inherit the universe. Despite all of our faults, humans will prove ourselves worthy of this honor.
This has to be one of the most well acted scenes by Jurassic. He gives the perfect amount of gravitas to his lines. It's almost like poetry. He was a rare gem.
I feel confident in saying that pretty much every scene he did in this show was well acted. He stole the scene every time he was on camera and made the character stand out in a show full of solid acting performances/characters.
When a normally jovial and friendly person turns deadly serious when you ask them a question, perhaps you should listen to their answer...Especially when they have more experience with the matter than you do.
"We handled the Dilgar," he says, neatly side-stepping the assistance they had from the early members of what became the League of Non-Aligned Worlds... Londo's response should have been, "Yes, and the only reason you had to was because even the Dilgar weren't psychotic enough to cross the Minbari! If they had been, you wouldn't have needed to fight."
+Obvious Troll I think his best quote is in retort to Mr Morden when Morden says "So what are you gonna do Molari? blow up the island?" & Molari says after fishing a remote detonator out of his pocket "Actually... now that you mention it"
Theomite He has an interesting character arc. At first he is almost a joke, given a position no one else wanted, representing an empire that was in decline. By the end he is a tragic figure, having made one bad decision after another, given opportunities to turn around but ignoring them until it is too late, his greed and ambition having led him and his people to ruin.
Compare Babylon 5 to Star Trek Discovery, which has one of the biggest budgets in television and great special effects. You'll quickly realize it's not the budget of the effects, it's the writing and the acting that make a show a classic.
@@nelsonchereta816 Pretty much. Also, thank you for not using "It sucks because it's woke." Discovery has a lot of faults, but that isn't one of them (Trek from its inception has always been aggressively progressive). Where it really fails is writing, and too much of a focus on Burnham, and not the rest of the crew, who ARE likeable and interesting, they just never get the screentime they deserve.
@@michaelgreenwood3413 There is different between painfully one dimensional woke pandering like STD and every other show does these days and presenting humanistic ideas in thought provoking ways like TNG did for example. I will always remember the end of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" because it caught me so off guard. Half of viewers probably didn't notice and the rest wouldn't assign importance to it. It really showed how stupid racism is in a smart way.
@@michaelgreenwood3413 no Discovery sucks because it sucks. How can you have good writing from people who are so stupid they are woke. Wokeness is not engaged in by people who are thoughtful.
This was and is an absolutely brilliantly written, produced and acted series. It's a pity talent like this are no longer available to make our entertainment.
What the hell are you talking about? The standard of television today is FAR above anything we've seen before. Some of today's top flight shows have a larger budget for one single episode than was spent on the entire Babylon 5 series. Getting stuck in the past just means you miss out on all the fantastic stuff that continues to be around you. The only one who really loses from that is you.
That's what the 2007 Writer's Strike. A lot of people thought it was a win for them, but it put ALL the writers who participated onto a 'secret' blacklist, keeping them from ever getting work in Hollywood ever again. And this new strike, is just going to make it worse, as NO ONE gets off the Blacklist, they just get put onto it.
Didn't the Dilgar's home star rather conveniently go supernova on them mid-war? Is this fictional jackass taking credit for the Dilgar being too stupid to have relocated the bulk of their population to a younger system?
@@robertgibson6687 The Earth Alliance getting involved pushed the Dilgar back to their home system, they had tried to spread out by conquering (and killing) others babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Dilgar
It is sad this show does not get any reruns. The two things that made this work is they had the whole series and story line planned out. It went well and they were able to do all 5 seasons. The cast was EXCELLENT. I just saw an interview with the producer. I never knew O'Hare left the show due to health issues. They brought him back for a two parter but his health issues ended up getting him in the end. The producer promised to never say a word but O'Hare told him to tell everyone after he died. He didn't want someone else and their family to go through what he did. He kept his word and never said a thing until O'Hare passed.
I didn't know that either, though I remember thinking when I discovered and binge watched it a few years ago that they seemed to be building him towards a really serious role and then just abandoned it so abruptly that I guessed it was more to do with the actor than the character. Like Talia Winters - I liked Lyta as a character but 90% of her story arc seemed like it was initially intended for Talia.
@@aecides3203 That really demonstrates how strong a writer Straczynski is. He had such a firm foundation that he was able to adjust the story to accommodate cast changes and it still worked really well. Claudia Christian baled out after season 4 and he wrote in Tracy Scoggins' character to replace her and she slotted in just fine. He gave her a good back story with Sheridan as well.
Straczynski wrote every character with an "out". Should an actor leave, die or become unavailable he had a plan to remove and/or replace their character. It's amazing how forward planning prepares you for these little road bumps.
My understanding though is because JMS was concerned about being canceled that the original plan was modified with the last two seasons compressed into one as S4 so they'd be sure to finish the main story. Then TNT picked it up and the S5 that was broadcasted was not the original planned one. S4 really did have a breakneck fast pace, which always made me wonder what was lost compressing the episode count.
some people went to other peoples borders thinking of themselves as unstoppable. yes parrallels to the Biden administration and also Biden preparing all of this under obama, are strong parallels to the earth leadership depicted in the scene.
Sounds like a completely mad foreign policy, and eventually the Minbari proved to not be that foolish and decided to stand on the side of good against e.g. the Drakh.
I always wondered whether the arcs of him and Andreas Katsulas were originally planned the way they played out or whether the for a science fiction show insanly broad range of acting they were capable to deliver moved the plot further to allow them to show their talent. The Narn initially seemed a lot more focussed on revenge and therefore pilot points into a different direction than the show finally takes.
Herr Schmidt The show was on a VERY low budget. I do not think that they expected such awesome performances from these actors at the time. So my opinion would be that these actors changed the show entirely.
Actors always like it when they get scripts that allow them to spread their wings. JMS was very good at avoiding common tropes or turning them on their ear.
Herr Schmidt When Mr Morden went around asking, "what do you want", G'kar only wanted revenge and then the safety of his people. Londo wanted to restore the grandeur of his people, his republic, and to be emperor. Thus his greed and ambition made him the perfect tool of the Shadows.
There are always inklings of the actual true character of Londo in the first season but he always gets play off for laughs or as a comical villain. But as it goes, he turns out the be the most wise, tragic, and tactical character in the entire show. The setup is amazing because the way he acts early on almost seems like his behavior is copping from dealing with everything around him. The wars, betrayals, and unavoidable hardships that he knows he will face
The storyline between Londo and G’Kar is a story about slavery, imperialism, terrorism and genocide in which both sides are treated with some level of humanity and empathy, while also not giving either side an out for the cruel things they do. People talk a lot about how some things can’t be remade today, but I think that more than almost anything. Even if a writer could do it well (and there are some who could), no one is going to take that kind of risk these days.
@@johngregory4801 ...ehhh... I don't think so, given that the entire Bajor/Cardassia thing was a direct copy of Narn/Centauri; JMS made the mistake of sharing his series bible with the XXXX at Paramount before he was certain of a sale. They stole pretty much everything to make DS9.
From the first time I watched it, I have thought that _In the Beginning_ was a marvelous showpiece for Peter Jurasik as Londo Mollari, and in all the intervening time, I've found no reason to change that opinion. Thank you, JMS. Thank you, Peter.
I love how utterly sincere londo is here. He is a staunch patriot who loves his home and his people more than anything, often to the point of arrogance, but he is telling them to stay civil with the Minbari, because at their most powerful, the Centauri didn't dare to go against the Minbari and for good reason. Them not listening to him, almost cost the earth everything, all because they were feeling so big after their business with what they assumed was the biggest man in the yard.
Amazing how this series constantly reflects the attitudes of real politicians and real history. How many conflicts were caused by similar mistakes to the open gun ports.
This is why I think B5 is the best sci-fi series out there, along with its believable storyline,music,scenes,etc , the internal and external conflicts are so real, You can really believe that yup, that is truly what humans would act like in the future. Shows like star trek are ok but I can never believe that humans would be nearly as unified or "good" as star trek shows them as.... B5 shows humans exactly on who we are and how we would act in a futuristic environment. Just like the Roseanne shows up a REALISTIC family behavior instead of a fake cosby show family, realism adds so much to shows when you can actually relate to it AND believe that could actually happen.
+Doctor van Nostrand then there is the aspect of the proxy wars between The Shadows and Vorlon's reflecting on the cold war. So many nations and colonies torn apart in war, hundreds of millions dead and still dying from the ramifications of those actions with neither side still admitting, nor ceasing to continue such actions. For those who are ignorant of what the context, read the history of panama for Imperialism, or Indonesia's invasion of East Timor for proxy war respectively.
Not every culture views things the same. Showing open gun ports to one says "we openly show our strength to honor you", but another sees that as a threatening action.
That sounds like good advice in any age. "If you do not bother them, they will not bother you." The subtext is, "If you bother them you will wake the dragon. He has a *very* mean temper, trust me."
Post Dilgar War Earth is reminiscent of Japan after the Russo-Japanese War. It displayed the same brash and arrogant attitudes of a new kid on the block after defeating an established power, thinking that it can now take on anyone.
Funny you can say that about the U. S. after the WWII, only that it was all on a lie, because the Russia were the ones that invaded Berlin, and U. S. committed genocide just for fun, with a enemy at the point of surrendering. And what happen aftermath? Defeat after defeat.
@@azraelknightquest5754 , it does make sense if you are more read in history than what you learn in US schools. It helps to counterbalance the bias if you listen to sources other than those pushed for your broad consumption.
@hahaha no , More like you're just some conspiracist nutcase that still thinks flying black frisbee's are UFO's that the gorvernment is hiding knowledge of to better improve teleportation technology to create hybrid pig-boys to conquer the world for the Martians. Goofball.
The Americans haven been involved in any genocides. The atomic bombings where utter atrocities and in no way justified, by they weren’t acts of genocide
48 court-martialed Earthforce officers disliked this video. Also, they should've included the phrase, "Sadly, arrogance isn't exclusively a human trait."
This scene may well be inspired by the real life meeting that took place between Admiral Yamamoto and Toji's war cabinet. Yamamoto, tried in vain to convince them not to provoke the US; having studied there he understood that it was a sleeping dragon. Alas, they would not listen... Arrogance and stupidity all wrapped up in one package!
@@jebise1126 What? This sounds like an excuse for Japanese militarism and aggression against China. Another nonsense of poor Japanese historians, who consider the victims of the vile West.
@@TheMrPeteChannel I'm sure the Egyptians, hitties, Greeks, Persians, Romans, Ottomans, Mongols, British, Soviets etc all thought the same too, that they where eternal. But they all either declined or perish in time. America is no different, and honestly America has long drifted away from the ideals that founded it. In time even ideals get warped, twisted and forgotten. Even America is not immune to this.
+Doctor van Nostrand No, actually its just a reference to a Japanese Admiral immediately after the attack on Pearl Harbor. "A military man can scarcely pride himself on having 'smitten a sleeping enemy". Another quote was used in a movie and might not have actually happened but it is "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve".
Would anyone else like a cross intellectual property film featuring Londo Mollari and Elim Garrak from Deep Space Nine as the leads? They would either really get along or absolutely hate each other. Either way I would like to watch.
You have it. Your cross. DS9 was made by Paramount after B5 script was presented to them. DS9 had 10 times the budget of B5 and still managed to but a pitiful shadow.
@@nelsonchereta816 If you have the saying "Be Great Again", you aren't a patriot. You're a nationalist. A patriot understands their country never *lost* being great. It's just also done some stuff it needs to learn from and not whitewash.
"Yeah, we rolled these small time players. We can take anybody in a fight now. Sure we don't know what is out there in the Dark. But we're very confident that our new spears will be able to hold off any conventional challenges." Every barbarian civilization ever.
Ah but we already replaced our last-season's spears with arrows, special very pointy bodkins that will even go through mail. Why are you laughing? No, I haven't, tell me, what is kevlar?
The most interesting thing about this conversation, and the aftermath, is the fact it was already all predetermined. Nothing they could do or say, or even known about would of changed the fact, that this had to happen! This one event... this one CRUCIAL event set the stage to the series finale. That's the thing I loved about B5 how everything connects.
The fact that we got such performances out of the cast, while slathered in make up and some in ridiculous costumes , never ceases to amaze me! around of applause for true dedication to their art, even if it is too late for some! Please! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Looking back it, I love that look those 2 humans share at the beginning like they know that it's a little "too convenient" that Londo just happens to have the perfect medicine on hand to quickly solve their problem, but don't feel like trying to make a scene by calling him out on it.
@@Alknix The Londo we hear in the narration is at the end of his life, and when he says about arrogant men not listening, he is likely referring to himself as well as the humans.
@@Relugus yeah he has the benefit of appreciating the irony in what he advises EarthGov to do in the past, but fails to heed himself when he was in a similar position of power.
@@teecakes I think that's part of being ungrounded. Getting a big head means you are unable to stop yourself from making foolish mistakes and biting off more then you can chew.
There are so many layers to this scene, aside from the great quotes also consider that Londo whilst having probably already checked it doesn't harm Humans knows full well that they are not going to give some random drug to their President but will instead give it to their Scientists to analyse but the gesture will carry him favour that can be cashed in at some later date.
Londo: Arhhh, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package Also Londo: Ordering the Centauri battlecruiser to open fire on the Narn ship that's staying under protection of the B5.
Humans: We wanna know about the thing! Londo: Ok but don't poke the thing. H: *Beats the shit out of the thing, takes its shoes and wonders what they did wrong and why the thing is trying to kill him* Two years later: L: Ahhh! Stupid human! Good that you came back! Was worried you got killed by the thing! H: *Has a severe limp and a missing eye, occasionally muttering curses at the thing*
I tell people when they first start watching Babylon 5 that Londo Mollari is the main character. It doesn't seem obvious at first, he is a clown, a sideshow, but slowly but surely every new viewer comes to realize I was right.
"The Minbari are one of the oldest space faring races, even at the height of the Centauri Republic when we were expanding in all directions, we never opposed the Minbari, if you do not bother them, they will not bother you"
The hubris of a younger space faring race that is humanity, which somehow becomes entwined with the Minbari through a time paradox and made them the nexus of the fate of the galaxy.
I liked Babylon 5. Instead of the naive optimism of Star Trek, B5 showed humanity traveling to the stars and making TONS of mistakes. Such a good series.
Though I would recommend Star Trek Deep Space Nine. It even takes a few jabs at the naive optimism of Earth and the Federation as being flaws, and showing how those flaws affect those on the frontier worlds, and the impact upon those in the front lines of major conflict. Yes, there are a lot of similarities with Babylon 5, some more blatant than others, but there is still a lot of good on its own. Especially watching the characters change and grow, rather than remaining static throughout (one of Trek's big problems, its typical episodic nature)
It's not naive optimism. Star Trek under Roddenberry's guidance showed what could, or should, be. It wasn't mean to be "realistic", the whole point was to explore the possibilities and paint a positive picture over a less positive real world. Also, history is full of "naive optimism" that ends up becoming real later.
@@Cuthalu I think the idea was that if we showed a bright future, that it would inspire us to build toward said future. That was the naive part, and not only did we not do what Star Trek hoped we would, but we have arguably reverted in many ways. Now Star Trek has a new gameplan,... but far too many wish for Star Trek to remain as a safe, comfortable security blanket, to hide from the world's problems with,.... which is pretty much the polar opposite of Star Trek's intent.
Fuck. I just realized that the Minbari first contact was the Perry Expedtion, except this time around the Japanese can more than defend themselves. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Expedition
Damn he had some of the best lines in this show. I miss it so much. I could have sat in the same room of most of these actors in a convention in 2012 or 2013 in galveston at the time but Game of Thrones panels were going on at the same time.. very hard choice
Why do I suspect that if he had said, 'Oh, the Minbari were powerful once, but they are very decadent and weak now. They are isolationists because they are just a shadow of what they once were'" They'd have believed that without question? Most people decide what the 'truth' is based on their own preconceptions and circumstances. They then deliberately accept facts that reinforce what they already believe and reject any evidence that is contradictory.
Nelson Chereta Tragically, that is what most humans do. It's really hard to check your biases and accept facts you don't like, but unless we learn to do that, we're done for as a species.
Mark Stockman tell me about it, at the moment it is very popular to worship a politico that was assassinated in 1986, now people like I that was acttually there are questioned by people that were not there.
Ah Babylon 5. One of the best TV shows of all time. Mollari played such an excellent role in this series. And even though he was an alien, we got to see all his emotional sides and find that he was no different than a human.
an absolute gem of a series. So well written and presented. I so much enjoyed every arc, short or lengthy and the characters were terrific. Londo and G'Kar were 2 of my favourites (tho I loved all of them). There is a frozen popsicle type dessert called "Frutare".....I see it in the grocery store often....and I just can't help but say it in Londo's accent....😏
I don't see anyone else commenting on how the bigwig in this scene, General Lefcourt, was the same who thought he could beat Sheridan at Mars in the episode "Endgame."
![KSI - Thick Of It (feat. Trippie Redd) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/At8v_Yc044Y/mqdefault.jpg)
The ironic arc of Londo's character. Always the one to see the future, never able to change it. The most tragic character in B5.
@DEEPFOXJUDE Dr Faustus made a pact with the devil once to learn earhtly pleasures - but it inevitably led to his doom. Yes. I can see the parallels.
When Mollari was the voice of reason and the Minbari were the bloodthirsty monsters.
Actually he was warned, but he missed the opportunities.
G'kar begs to differ
@@robertnett9793 There are a few different Faust stories in German literature. Goethe's Faust was actually not lead into doom. Goethe's Faust was influenced by the devil to be a part of dooming other people like Gretchen, but he himself lived a long life and ultimately went to heaven. The devil lost his bet with god, namely that he could make Faust, the atheist, to fall from the path of god. The first volume is an interesting read, the second volume is to put it mildly mainly confused.
You are speaking of the first story about Dr. Faustus not Goethe's adaptation here. The classic Faust tale is one about the classical pact with the devil. Dr. Faustus is only getting mislead by illusions and lies and then has to pay for it with his soul and body.
"Ah, arrogance and stupidity packed in the same package, how efficient of you"
Best quote
This. This. This. Damn he's the best.
Governments in a nutshell
I can think of a few very "efficient" world "leaders" right now. Of course, when their mistakes are revealed as obvious to the whole planet, they will be long dead and forgotten.
@@Ukitsu2 Ah, arrogance and stupidity ALL in the same package, how efficient of you."
Your alliteration was incorrect.
Amazing! the author was a fortune teller predicting Trump and Johnson, to name but two?
A rare moment where Londo doesn't preen or obfuscate or make his own people out to be more powerful than they are. He was brutally honest, 100% right... and they didn't listen.
But he was, nonetheless, handling arrogant people in the worst way possible: making it so that they _couldn't_ listen to him withour losing face. By the time the "Minbari are one of the oldest" parts came out, those two had already been neatly trapped by their egos into a stupid course of action. And all this just to score points for his _own_ ego with snarky lines and power games.
All of which is excellent characte building, mind you. Londo is just as much a prisoner of his own faults as these two are. But he's not being "honest" here, he's catering to his own need of feeling superior, at the cost of the people he's interacting with actually listening to him.
@@clovernacknime6984How should he have handled them differently?
@@anon5789 Not calling them stupid and arrogant to their face would had been a good start. That made the conversation a confrontation and listening to Londo an admission of defeat. And that was entirely intentional. Like I said, Londo plays a power game here at the expense of these two people. That's his nature, at least at this point.
@@clovernacknime6984No he did the right thing. They were not willing to even remotely listen from the start.
@@anon5789 Those two think of themselves as very smart and unbeatable. Telling them off will make them resist you. A better way would be to plant the idea how not antagonizing the Minbari would be an even smarter move, worthy of strategic geniuses such as them. And tell it in a way that makes them believe it was their own idea in the first place, not pointing it out but leading them to find that conclusion themselves.
It's difficult to pull off, requiring great diplomatic skill, which Londo has. It also requires putting your own ego aside and letting others think they are your betters in order to prevent a stupid war. I guess that's one bridge too far for old Londo.
"They didn't listen. Arrogant men never do."
And that is Vir's complaint about _him._
It is a bit more complex than that though. Londo already by the time they use mass drivers to bomb the Narn back into the stone age realized how horribly he went wrong. A substantial amount of later seasons he tries to course correct but as he said to Vir at some point, the blood is already on his hands. This is also why he was distraught about Vir being forced to kill Cartagia, something that Londo wanted to do to spare Vir that same horrible fate of staining your hands with blood. He was also utterly played by Morden later.
Since the narrative is set in the future where Londo is watching his empire burn, he probably *is* talking about himself.
"They didn't listen, of course. Arrogant men never do."
More people need to watch this show no matter how old it is, just for gems like this one.
I believe we are seeing that in RL with the USA right now.
Agreed gentlemen..
Wisdom never dates.
one of the very few times Londo was completely truthful and not working an angle for profit or status.
That potion he slipped in reconfigured the president's brain to be pro-Centauri on any trade deals. Ho Ho Ho. :P
Let's be honest, this whole scene was nothing more than a pissing contest, a competition between Londo and those two Earth goons who can act more smug and superior. That's exactly the Londo we know.
Dominic while this is Londo's story he is not being smug. This is very dangerous and stupid. They should have heeded his advice, at least in the short term thinking in the long term thinking it was a good thing they didn't
I think londo was working an angle of don't piss off the minbari
I think in this case, the two lined up perfectly.
Centauri reaction after the Dukhat incident:
"You did WHAT?! Oh, well. It's been nice knowing you."
In the novelisation this is basically what happened. At a party celebrating the victory Londo says that he hates going to funerals and that all the humans around him are deadmen. At which point the first word of minbari attacks come in.
I always hated that Dukhat incident. Open your gun ports at someone who doesn't know your intentions, OF COURSE they might see it as a hostile act. That's not clash of cultures, that's just absolute stupidity.
The kernel of the idea isn't bad, but gun ports are a comically bad way to do it. I propose instead, that the Minbari released a small space probe with information about Minbari culture, something to take back to earth and let scientists figure out their language. But the earth ship saw the probe, assumed it was a bomb, and all hell broke loose.
Its funny later in the movie they want Centauri weapons and say "we'll pay any price"
and Londo replies "yes..and then WE will pay the price, when the Mimbari come after us for helping you"
@@kingbeauregard To be fair, Minbari assumed that Earthers could tell by looking their sensors that their weapons system was not online. What they didn't know that their radar battery had been so powerful that it not only disrupted their sensors but shutdown their jump engines.
@@Ruosteinenknight I know that is the explanation in the story, but take a step back. If your goal is to minimize the perception of hostility when you're meeting a new race, do you really want to show them how well armed you are? It's just such a bad call that, even though they try to justify it in-universe, it doesn't add up. Especially the Minbari losing their shit over a mistake THEY made.
The novelization of this movie has a great scene where EarthGov is celebrating their "victory" over the ship in that first encounter. Londo is there telling them "if you have families, be with them now" and such. When one Earth soldier says that "the Minbari might be afraid of us now" Londo literally laughs "Minbari afraid of HUMANS?"
He then goes on about "I hate attending funerals" and when one soldier says it's not, he replies "It must be. All I see around me are dead men." At which point, the first reports of the Minbari destroying human colonies come in. "Dead. Men."
I guess they DID eventually learn:
"Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. *HE* is behind me. *YOU* are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else." (*exit all EarthForce ships, stage left!*) :D
One of my favorite scenes in all of B5... I guess all those ships received orders to return to Earth for the All EarthForce BBQ and Volleyball Game... (LOL)
Earthforce then went looking for Shadow technology to use to try and counterbalance things, which led to the Advanced Omega class destroyer we see in "Between the Darkness and the Light" which gave even the White Stars a lot of trouble.
"Ambassador, such doom and gloom. This is a party."
"This is not a party, this is a WAKE!"
@Ghastly Grinner The Minbari ships did actually start returning fire, then the Earth ships withdrew.
They didn't wake the dragon. They broke into his cave, stole his gold, ate his food, and pissed on his leg. Then Earth paid the price in full.
Nah, more like they they punched the dragon in the face and took out one of his eyes (Dukhat). That made the dragon really really mad. He could have forgiven losing the gold, but an eye ?
Yep, that would tick off any dragon alright.
Its kinda ironic then that the Mimbari realised a little too late that what had broken into their den was a long lost cousin, twice removed. ^^
@@LtCWestReally pretty good comment here you have, LtCWest.
@@christianherbst674 That's Mollari alright; he does tend to do that kind of foolishness.
Despite his many flaws, Londo tried to warn Earth.
No angle in having their new friends Earth obliterated by the Minbari
He did, as candid as diplomat could, but if warnings fell to deaf ears, well....
_”I have tried to help you, you refuse to listen, there you are...”_
@@grendelum as he said for all your stumbling around I hope that you do not wake the Dragon. Good day gentleman.
Londo wasn't a bad person. He's about as good a person as you get with his upbringing.
"Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package, how efficient of you."Never had any sentient ever described humans more accurately.
True, but if you watch the whole series, you learn that we humans are also creative, clever, loving, joyous, and, in the right circumstances, noble and selfless.
"They are better than they think and nobler than they know. They carry within them the capacity to walk among the stars like giants. They are the future, and we have much to learn from them." - Delenn
This is why we are among the Younger Races that eventually inherit the universe. Despite all of our faults, humans will prove ourselves worthy of this honor.
Now if only that one guy had told him about Karl Farbman and the other guy had given him Kramers suitcase full of crackers.
This has to be one of the most well acted scenes by Jurassic. He gives the perfect amount of gravitas to his lines. It's almost like poetry. He was a rare gem.
Hokey pokey is the best ever. It makes no sense!
I feel confident in saying that pretty much every scene he did in this show was well acted. He stole the scene every time he was on camera and made the character stand out in a show full of solid acting performances/characters.
Was?! He's still alive
@@henningaasland8704 A rare event for a B5 cast member to be still alive. :/
This movie is VITAL!
2:08 _”ahh, arrogance _*_and_*_ stupidity all in the same package... how efficient of you.”_
I’ve used that line so many times...
I liked ' always bet on stupid". The amount of times I have witnessed the truth of those words!
I know a plenty of people who fit that bill
So have I. I’ve drawn on Londo a lot. He was one of the smartest and fate screwed him over. Love him.
@@DianaMaeBabyGirl agreed
I used to....and this "I hope you stumple around don wake the dragons" en my languaje "cuando esten ahi tropezando con todo no despíerten al dragon"
When a normally jovial and friendly person turns deadly serious when you ask them a question, perhaps you should listen to their answer...Especially when they have more experience with the matter than you do.
"We handled the Dilgar," he says, neatly side-stepping the assistance they had from the early members of what became the League of Non-Aligned Worlds...
Londo's response should have been, "Yes, and the only reason you had to was because even the Dilgar weren't psychotic enough to cross the Minbari! If they had been, you wouldn't have needed to fight."
Also neatly side stepping the fact that what actually ended that war was the Dilgar sun going nova.
Not to mention the Dilgar were on roughly equal terms technologically, whereas Minbari tech was easily 1000+ years more advanced
"I warned you, you refused to listen. There you are." -one of the best quotes
+Obvious Troll I think his best quote is in retort to Mr Morden when Morden says "So what are you gonna do Molari? blow up the island?" & Molari says after fishing a remote detonator out of his pocket "Actually... now that you mention it"
Funny that he wouldn't heed his own advice when Elric the Technomage said it to him years later.
"NOOO! KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMM !!!!"
I still loved his, "Pride and stupidity, all rolled into one... how efficient of you..."
Theomite He has an interesting character arc. At first he is almost a joke, given a position no one else wanted, representing an empire that was in decline. By the end he is a tragic figure, having made one bad decision after another, given opportunities to turn around but ignoring them until it is too late, his greed and ambition having led him and his people to ruin.
Despite at times cheesy and had a limited budget, B5 was superbly written and the actors truly brought their characters to life.
Compare Babylon 5 to Star Trek Discovery, which has one of the biggest budgets in television and great special effects. You'll quickly realize it's not the budget of the effects, it's the writing and the acting that make a show a classic.
@@nelsonchereta816 Pretty much. Also, thank you for not using "It sucks because it's woke." Discovery has a lot of faults, but that isn't one of them (Trek from its inception has always been aggressively progressive). Where it really fails is writing, and too much of a focus on Burnham, and not the rest of the crew, who ARE likeable and interesting, they just never get the screentime they deserve.
i think that works for B5. it feels like a grand opera.
@@michaelgreenwood3413 There is different between painfully one dimensional woke pandering like STD and every other show does these days and presenting humanistic ideas in thought provoking ways like TNG did for example.
I will always remember the end of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" because it caught me so off guard. Half of viewers probably didn't notice and the rest wouldn't assign importance to it. It really showed how stupid racism is in a smart way.
@@michaelgreenwood3413 no Discovery sucks because it sucks. How can you have good writing from people who are so stupid they are woke. Wokeness is not engaged in by people who are thoughtful.
"I've tried to help you. You refuse to listen. There you are." Another great line, sadly too often applicable in everyday life as well...
" They wouldn't listen, arrogant men never do." Gee ,could this line be more relevant today?
That's the beauty of Babylon 5, the lessons seem to always be relevant
quite accurate to say the least
Rule of thumb: If you believe someone else is too arrogant to listen, it might actually be you.
@Robert Hall For heaven's sake another Trump moron.
Very accurate
I wonder: Has there ever been a clip with one of my favourite quotes of Londo's: "Intelligence has nothing to do with politics!"
A similar one from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: "Apparently you can't be President with a whole brain."
Everyone knows you don't build an outpost on the border of an Isolationist Fallen Empire. Even the AI avoids doing that.
This was and is an absolutely brilliantly written, produced and acted series. It's a pity talent like this are no longer available to make our entertainment.
What the hell are you talking about? The standard of television today is FAR above anything we've seen before. Some of today's top flight shows have a larger budget for one single episode than was spent on the entire Babylon 5 series. Getting stuck in the past just means you miss out on all the fantastic stuff that continues to be around you. The only one who really loses from that is you.
That's what the 2007 Writer's Strike. A lot of people thought it was a win for them, but it put ALL the writers who participated onto a 'secret' blacklist, keeping them from ever getting work in Hollywood ever again. And this new strike, is just going to make it worse, as NO ONE gets off the Blacklist, they just get put onto it.
@@Slitheringpeanut Has more to do with talent not being required anymore. You need only to check certain boxes and have the correct opinions.
@@sardonicspartan9343 Which is financially rewarded, through ESG/DEI mandates.
@@Slitheringpeanut JMS is literally doing a reboot, so he’s clearly not on any blacklists.
"we took care of the Dilgar..." Unfortunately, the Mimbari weren't the Dilgar.
Earthdome sure found that out the hard way, didn't they
Didn't the Dilgar's home star rather conveniently go supernova on them mid-war?
Is this fictional jackass taking credit for the Dilgar being too stupid to have relocated the bulk of their population to a younger system?
@@robertgibson6687 The Earth Alliance getting involved pushed the Dilgar back to their home system, they had tried to spread out by conquering (and killing) others
babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Dilgar
@@andrewthorne3570 So it's even worse! The EarthForce was a Johnny-come-lately to the war and started taking credit, then their home sun supernova'd.
@@robertgibson6687 Yep, but to be fair the other races were getting there asses handed to them until EarthForce rode in like the cavalry
It is sad this show does not get any reruns. The two things that made this work is they had the whole series and story line planned out. It went well and they were able to do all 5 seasons. The cast was EXCELLENT.
I just saw an interview with the producer. I never knew O'Hare left the show due to health issues. They brought him back for a two parter but his health issues ended up getting him in the end. The producer promised to never say a word but O'Hare told him to tell everyone after he died. He didn't want someone else and their family to go through what he did. He kept his word and never said a thing until O'Hare passed.
I'm rewatching the series on Amazon Prime right now.
I didn't know that either, though I remember thinking when I discovered and binge watched it a few years ago that they seemed to be building him towards a really serious role and then just abandoned it so abruptly that I guessed it was more to do with the actor than the character. Like Talia Winters - I liked Lyta as a character but 90% of her story arc seemed like it was initially intended for Talia.
@@aecides3203 That really demonstrates how strong a writer Straczynski is. He had such a firm foundation that he was able to adjust the story to accommodate cast changes and it still worked really well. Claudia Christian baled out after season 4 and he wrote in Tracy Scoggins' character to replace her and she slotted in just fine. He gave her a good back story with Sheridan as well.
Straczynski wrote every character with an "out". Should an actor leave, die or become unavailable he had a plan to remove and/or replace their character. It's amazing how forward planning prepares you for these little road bumps.
My understanding though is because JMS was concerned about being canceled that the original plan was modified with the last two seasons compressed into one as S4 so they'd be sure to finish the main story. Then TNT picked it up and the S5 that was broadcasted was not the original planned one.
S4 really did have a breakneck fast pace, which always made me wonder what was lost compressing the episode count.
Peter Jurasik -WAY underated in the role as Londo............
He really isn’t.
Not at all. That's why he was one of the greatest characters on B5.
How can he be under rated when is is half of what is likely greatest pair of frenemies in sci-fi?
Underrated? By whom? Besides you, I mean.
@@waynemarvin5661 By everyone who isn't me, only I am clever enough to see clearly....
Couldn't resist trying to be arrogant and stupid ;-)
"if you do not bother them thay will not bother you" words I like to live by most of the time I wish some people would not bother me
Yup. The tried and true creed of "Don't start none, won't be none."
Two thoughts.
1. Best television show ever.
2. "Arrogance and stupidity" reminds me of many of our current leaders.
All those years ago and even today we still have people in power that embody the title of this video. "How efficient." As Londo says.
some people went to other peoples borders thinking of themselves as unstoppable. yes parrallels to the Biden administration and also Biden preparing all of this under obama, are strong parallels to the earth leadership depicted in the scene.
"if you dont bother them, they wont bother you" all time best foreign policy
U.S take note.
Sounds like a completely mad foreign policy, and eventually the Minbari proved to not be that foolish and decided to stand on the side of good against e.g. the Drakh.
@@scotttild we did, until the barbary pirates...then saw need to be involved. are we too involved? perhaps.
"Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you." - great quote!
Peter Jurasik disappeared in the role of Londo Molari.
I always wondered whether the arcs of him and Andreas Katsulas were originally planned the way they played out or whether the for a science fiction show insanly broad range of acting they were capable to deliver moved the plot further to allow them to show their talent. The Narn initially seemed a lot more focussed on revenge and therefore pilot points into a different direction than the show finally takes.
Herr Schmidt The show was on a VERY low budget. I do not think that they expected such awesome performances from these actors at the time. So my opinion would be that these actors changed the show entirely.
+WintersArcher well the character arcs were planned well ahead however the actors likely far exceeded expectations
Actors always like it when they get scripts that allow them to spread their wings. JMS was very good at avoiding common tropes or turning them on their ear.
Herr Schmidt When Mr Morden went around asking, "what do you want", G'kar only wanted revenge and then the safety of his people. Londo wanted to restore the grandeur of his people, his republic, and to be emperor. Thus his greed and ambition made him the perfect tool of the Shadows.
There are always inklings of the actual true character of Londo in the first season but he always gets play off for laughs or as a comical villain. But as it goes, he turns out the be the most wise, tragic, and tactical character in the entire show. The setup is amazing because the way he acts early on almost seems like his behavior is copping from dealing with everything around him. The wars, betrayals, and unavoidable hardships that he knows he will face
Don't forget his wives!
id personally say gkar ends up more wise, but theyre both very wise and intelligent by the end. it really is just perspective imo
He and G'kar had the best character arc in the series.
@@conmadben Of any show.
The storyline between Londo and G’Kar is a story about slavery, imperialism, terrorism and genocide in which both sides are treated with some level of humanity and empathy, while also not giving either side an out for the cruel things they do.
People talk a lot about how some things can’t be remade today, but I think that more than almost anything. Even if a writer could do it well (and there are some who could), no one is going to take that kind of risk these days.
The Centauri reaction after the Dukhat incident:
"You did WHAT?!?! It's been nice knowing you!"
i'd like the stuff you borrowed last week back now...this place will not exist by the next one
One of the best science fiction shows ever. Mollari definitely was one of my favorite characters. Tragic ending though....
imagine londo and quark having a drink and gambling together
Imagine Londo and Garak working together.
@@JnEricsonx I see Garak working better with G'kar.
@John Gregory that would of been awesome
@@johngregory4801 ...ehhh... I don't think so, given that the entire Bajor/Cardassia thing was a direct copy of Narn/Centauri; JMS made the mistake of sharing his series bible with the XXXX at Paramount before he was certain of a sale. They stole pretty much everything to make DS9.
@@kalaong I'm aware of all of that, however...
It has nothing to do with what I was saying.
Oh man Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas what a pair they really sold this series for me
Add in Bester for added humour and "You got it in one"
Lets' not forget Jerry Doyle for the trinity. Wish I'd gotten to meet him, thankfully the other two I did.
From the first time I watched it, I have thought that _In the Beginning_ was a marvelous showpiece for Peter Jurasik as Londo Mollari, and in all the intervening time, I've found no reason to change that opinion. Thank you, JMS. Thank you, Peter.
I love how utterly sincere londo is here. He is a staunch patriot who loves his home and his people more than anything, often to the point of arrogance, but he is telling them to stay civil with the Minbari, because at their most powerful, the Centauri didn't dare to go against the Minbari and for good reason. Them not listening to him, almost cost the earth everything, all because they were feeling so big after their business with what they assumed was the biggest man in the yard.
This is the problem with Americans constantly being the representatives of Humanity in space.
They didn't even know the size of the yard
Amazing how this series constantly reflects the attitudes of real politicians and real history. How many conflicts were caused by similar mistakes to the open gun ports.
This is why I think B5 is the best sci-fi series out there, along with its believable storyline,music,scenes,etc , the internal and external conflicts are so real, You can really believe that yup, that is truly what humans would act like in the future. Shows like star trek are ok but I can never believe that humans would be nearly as unified or "good" as star trek shows them as.... B5 shows humans exactly on who we are and how we would act in a futuristic environment. Just like the Roseanne shows up a REALISTIC family behavior instead of a fake cosby show family, realism adds so much to shows when you can actually relate to it AND believe that could actually happen.
"We won two World Wars. We can handle some third-world malcontents in Cuba, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq." Not so fast.
+Doctor van Nostrand then there is the aspect of the proxy wars between The Shadows and Vorlon's reflecting on the cold war. So many nations and colonies torn apart in war, hundreds of millions dead and still dying from the ramifications of those actions with neither side still admitting, nor ceasing to continue such actions.
For those who are ignorant of what the context, read the history of panama for Imperialism, or Indonesia's invasion of East Timor for proxy war respectively.
Yes, we humans have a very dirty history, sadly. It shows few signs of getting much cleaner, either...
Not every culture views things the same. Showing open gun ports to one says "we openly show our strength to honor you", but another sees that as a threatening action.
That sounds like good advice in any age. "If you do not bother them, they will not bother you." The subtext is, "If you bother them you will wake the dragon. He has a *very* mean temper, trust me."
"I tried to help; you refuse to listen. There you are!"
I didn't realize until just now that this is Proverbs 1 verse 24
@@ClickBeetleTV And at least half of the Book of Isaiah.
To succeed in life, you need two things ignorance and confidence.
Mark Twain
indeed, just keep wisdom closer and stupidity far away.
"Ah, arrogance and stupidity packed in the same package, how efficient of you" top class.
"Pride goeth before fall" speaks just as well of the Minbari. Their prideful clans and castes caused the civil war.
Post Dilgar War Earth is reminiscent of Japan after the Russo-Japanese War. It displayed the same brash and arrogant attitudes of a new kid on the block after defeating an established power, thinking that it can now take on anyone.
Funny you can say that about the U. S. after the WWII, only that it was all on a lie, because the Russia were the ones that invaded Berlin, and U. S. committed genocide just for fun, with a enemy at the point of surrendering. And what happen aftermath? Defeat after defeat.
@Keyser94 What are you talking about? It doesn't even make sense. I honestly can't tell what you're saying. I hope English is not your first language.
@@azraelknightquest5754 , it does make sense if you are more read in history than what you learn in US schools. It helps to counterbalance the bias if you listen to sources other than those pushed for your broad consumption.
@hahaha no , More like you're just some conspiracist nutcase that still thinks flying black frisbee's are UFO's that the gorvernment is hiding knowledge of to better improve teleportation technology to create hybrid pig-boys to conquer the world for the Martians. Goofball.
The Americans haven been involved in any genocides. The atomic bombings where utter atrocities and in no way justified, by they weren’t acts of genocide
“Arrogance and stupidity all in one. How very efficient of you”.
🤣👍🏻
all in the same package that is lol
"Arrogance and Stupidity all in the same package!"
I should get bumper stickers with this motto!
(Or T-Shirts!)
*After First Contact...*
Earth: This is fine.
*A few battles later...*
Earth: _Clears throat_ THIS IS NOT FINE!
So prophetic. Everyone on this show was excellently cast.
I wish more shows (scifi or otherwise) were like this (again).
The subtle power play that the races took part in, in B5, is the most underrated piece of sci-fi seen on screen.
48 court-martialed Earthforce officers disliked this video.
Also, they should've included the phrase,
"Sadly, arrogance isn't exclusively a human trait."
This scene may well be inspired by the real life meeting that took place between Admiral Yamamoto and Toji's war cabinet. Yamamoto, tried in vain to convince them not to provoke the US; having studied there he understood that it was a sleeping dragon. Alas, they would not listen... Arrogance and stupidity all wrapped up in one package!
dude... usa made every move to provoke japan into war because they knew that they have much stronger production
@@jebise1126 What? This sounds like an excuse for Japanese militarism and aggression against China. Another nonsense of poor Japanese historians, who consider the victims of the vile West.
One day the USA will be like the Centauri, all great powers decay.
@@RomanHistoryFan476ADAmerica is eternal because it's an idea. You can't kill an idea.
@@TheMrPeteChannel I'm sure the Egyptians, hitties, Greeks, Persians, Romans, Ottomans, Mongols, British, Soviets etc all thought the same too, that they where eternal. But they all either declined or perish in time.
America is no different, and honestly America has long drifted away from the ideals that founded it. In time even ideals get warped, twisted and forgotten.
Even America is not immune to this.
Still holds up after all these years. It highlights the fact that substance is more important than fancy effects and overwhelming action.
"I only hope you do not wake the dragon." In other words, hope that no one in the Minbari leadership has Viserys Targaryen's disposition.
Doctor van Nostrand IN the end, the dragon ate Londo's soul.
^ Good one.
+Doctor van Nostrand So...the dragon starved to death?
+Doctor van Nostrand No, actually its just a reference to a Japanese Admiral immediately after the attack on Pearl Harbor. "A military man can scarcely pride himself on having 'smitten a sleeping enemy". Another quote was used in a movie and might not have actually happened but it is "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve".
it is alleged that Napolean said it after returning from China. China is often represented by the image of a dragon
Would anyone else like a cross intellectual property film featuring Londo Mollari and Elim Garrak from Deep Space Nine as the leads? They would either really get along or absolutely hate each other. Either way I would like to watch.
Two patriots who just wanted to see their nations be great again.
You have it. Your cross. DS9 was made by Paramount after B5 script was presented to them. DS9 had 10 times the budget of B5 and still managed to but a pitiful shadow.
@@nelsonchereta816 If you have the saying "Be Great Again", you aren't a patriot. You're a nationalist.
A patriot understands their country never *lost* being great. It's just also done some stuff it needs to learn from and not whitewash.
"...I've tried to help you. You refuse to listen..." best performance of Peter Jurassic...
"Yeah, we rolled these small time players. We can take anybody in a fight now. Sure we don't know what is out there in the Dark. But we're very confident that our new spears will be able to hold off any conventional challenges." Every barbarian civilization ever.
Sometimes they were right though. :)
@@procerusgigas Yes. Until they found they were wrong.
Ah but we already replaced our last-season's spears with arrows, special very pointy bodkins that will even go through mail. Why are you laughing? No, I haven't, tell me, what is kevlar?
@@procerusgigas Yeah...sometimes. But history has shown us, most of the time they were wrong.
The most interesting thing about this conversation, and the aftermath, is the fact it was already all predetermined. Nothing they could do or say, or even known about would of changed the fact, that this had to happen! This one event... this one CRUCIAL event set the stage to the series finale. That's the thing I loved about B5 how everything connects.
The fact that we got such performances out of the cast, while slathered in make up and some in ridiculous costumes , never ceases to amaze me!
around of applause for true dedication to their art, even if it is too late for some! Please!
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
B5 is often at its' best when it presents the larger, historical view; exposing the small turning points of events.
For being called the League of Non-Aligned Worlds they sure do seem to do a lot of aligning
it's like GroupOn...you get better exclusive deals if you're a member
Looking back it, I love that look those 2 humans share at the beginning like they know that it's a little "too convenient" that Londo just happens to have the perfect medicine on hand to quickly solve their problem, but don't feel like trying to make a scene by calling him out on it.
They probably took it to a lab
"I tried to help you, you wouldn't listen. So there you are."
Had they listened the whole Earth - Minbari War could have been avoided
The look on his face should have been enough lol. True fear and trying to cover it up.
There's a degree of irony here. Towards the end of the series, Londo's own arrogance ended up being his downfall.
And likewise he didn't listen to Vir when he tried to warn him.
@@Alknix The Londo we hear in the narration is at the end of his life, and when he says about arrogant men not listening, he is likely referring to himself as well as the humans.
@@Relugus yeah he has the benefit of appreciating the irony in what he advises EarthGov to do in the past, but fails to heed himself when he was in a similar position of power.
@@teecakes I think that's part of being ungrounded. Getting a big head means you are unable to stop yourself from making foolish mistakes and biting off more then you can chew.
He did say arrogent men are. He never said he wasn't included in that.
Londo called "Madness and stupidity" before Tywin.
There are so many layers to this scene, aside from the great quotes also consider that Londo whilst having probably already checked it doesn't harm Humans knows full well that they are not going to give some random drug to their President but will instead give it to their Scientists to analyse but the gesture will carry him favour that can be cashed in at some later date.
The actor playing Lando did so well here. That look of sudden dread followed essentially by “we don’t talk about THEM”
Peter Jurasik is awesome.
Londo: Arhhh, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package
Also Londo: Ordering the Centauri battlecruiser to open fire on the Narn ship that's staying under protection of the B5.
Humans: We wanna know about the thing!
Londo: Ok but don't poke the thing.
H: *Beats the shit out of the thing, takes its shoes and wonders what they did wrong and why the thing is trying to kill him*
Two years later:
L: Ahhh! Stupid human! Good that you came back! Was worried you got killed by the thing!
H: *Has a severe limp and a missing eye, occasionally muttering curses at the thing*
a much better analogy
That actually almost sounds like Londo!
When a technologically superior people tell you don’t f*** with the thing. You’d best listen.
I loved this post
The general sitting at the desk is future academy professor that taught Sheridan : general Robert Lefcourt.
I tell people when they first start watching Babylon 5 that Londo Mollari is the main character. It doesn't seem obvious at first, he is a clown, a sideshow, but slowly but surely every new viewer comes to realize I was right.
Mollari was one of my favorite characters. His growth during the show was amazing.
"We're not going to make it, are we? People I mean." "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves."
Apparently londo has never heard the earth phrase "hold my beer"
"They didn't listen, of course. Arrogant men never do."
There speaks Londo from his own bitter, blood soaked experience.
I hadn’t considered that. That he may also been speaking about himself.
londo is the best... the way he speaks... i could listen that for hours
"The Minbari are one of the oldest space faring races, even at the height of the Centauri Republic when we were expanding in all directions, we never opposed the Minbari, if you do not bother them, they will not bother you"
It's scenes like this that made Babylon 5 one of my favorite series.
one of the best sci fi series ever written... fact!
This scene seems so much more relevant now.
Scenes like this one kept me coming back for more.
A truly great show, jam packed with wisdom.
It's haughty spirit goes before the fall and pride goes before destruction.
Londo was a fantastic character. So interesting. Never a dull moment with him
The hubris of a younger space faring race that is humanity, which somehow becomes entwined with the Minbari through a time paradox and made them the nexus of the fate of the galaxy.
I liked Babylon 5. Instead of the naive optimism of Star Trek, B5 showed humanity traveling to the stars and making TONS of mistakes. Such a good series.
Though I would recommend Star Trek Deep Space Nine. It even takes a few jabs at the naive optimism of Earth and the Federation as being flaws, and showing how those flaws affect those on the frontier worlds, and the impact upon those in the front lines of major conflict.
Yes, there are a lot of similarities with Babylon 5, some more blatant than others, but there is still a lot of good on its own. Especially watching the characters change and grow, rather than remaining static throughout (one of Trek's big problems, its typical episodic nature)
Yes - Star Trek was/is more utopian, Babylon 5 was more realistic. Both of them are allegorical, in their own way.
It's not naive optimism. Star Trek under Roddenberry's guidance showed what could, or should, be. It wasn't mean to be "realistic", the whole point was to explore the possibilities and paint a positive picture over a less positive real world. Also, history is full of "naive optimism" that ends up becoming real later.
@@Cuthalu I think the idea was that if we showed a bright future, that it would inspire us to build toward said future. That was the naive part, and not only did we not do what Star Trek hoped we would, but we have arguably reverted in many ways.
Now Star Trek has a new gameplan,... but far too many wish for Star Trek to remain as a safe, comfortable security blanket, to hide from the world's problems with,.... which is pretty much the polar opposite of Star Trek's intent.
This describes humanity in a nutshell!
Fuck. I just realized that the Minbari first contact was the Perry Expedtion, except this time around the Japanese can more than defend themselves.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Expedition
Pretty much and the Earth Minbari War is the Pacific campaign in reverse.
Londo Molari is by far my favorite. Good, bad, and ugly. There will never be another like him in Sci-Fi.
Gave them a blue super-laxative, the oldest Centauri joke :)
Damn he had some of the best lines in this show. I miss it so much. I could have sat in the same room of most of these actors in a convention in 2012 or 2013 in galveston at the time but Game of Thrones panels were going on at the same time.. very hard choice
you chose.. poorly.
Yeah, let's troll the Minbari. This works well.
So they invited Mollari whom knew about the Minbari, he told them and they would not listen, talk about stupidity and arrogance.
+Krister Andersson "The decision has already been made." (( facepalm ))
Why do I suspect that if he had said, 'Oh, the Minbari were powerful once, but they are very decadent and weak now. They are isolationists because they are just a shadow of what they once were'" They'd have believed that without question? Most people decide what the 'truth' is based on their own preconceptions and circumstances. They then deliberately accept facts that reinforce what they already believe and reject any evidence that is contradictory.
Nelson Chereta Tragically, that is what most humans do. It's really hard to check your biases and accept facts you don't like, but unless we learn to do that, we're done for as a species.
Mark Stockman tell me about it, at the moment it is very popular to worship a politico that was assassinated in 1986, now people like I that was acttually there are questioned by people that were not there.
Tbh the humans were the bad guys in the series/movies, just like in Starship Troopers
Ah Babylon 5. One of the best TV shows of all time. Mollari played such an excellent role in this series. And even though he was an alien, we got to see all his emotional sides and find that he was no different than a human.
'I only hope in your stumbling around, you do not wake the thousands of giant blue angelfish killing machines'
an absolute gem of a series. So well written and presented. I so much enjoyed every arc, short or lengthy and the characters were terrific. Londo and G'Kar were 2 of my favourites (tho I loved all of them). There is a frozen popsicle type dessert called "Frutare".....I see it in the grocery store often....and I just can't help but say it in Londo's accent....😏
Human nature doesn't change.
Arrogance&stupidity scene has withstood, sadly, the test of time.
Again and again I find much use for it.
I really miss Londo.
I don't see anyone else commenting on how the bigwig in this scene, General Lefcourt, was the same who thought he could beat Sheridan at Mars in the episode "Endgame."