Morality Systems in Video Games
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
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this feels like when your 3 dads get divorced and then you see one of them on a car dealership commercial and you know that's the most time you're gonna get with him all year
@@SkimoStories this sounds oddly specific
Can’t say I recognize the feeling
well you can watch his twitch streams
no two of them still together
Don't forget the 4th dad (Charlie) who left to chase his dreams
Cherub
Schlatt groomed me back in 2021 when i was 16
You can't use that word anymore
🎼
Ted
Hi Teddy
the amount of blue collar aura emanating from this video is immense
What
@@plutoiguess2252you must not watch the podcast
What
What
the amount of people who don't get the reference in this comment section, lol
Tucker going on to make legitimately good content makes me very happy
Reminds me of a Nakeyjakey video, which is great because he's my favorite content creator.
Shows you the kind of standards we should be holding out content too. We making people massive for creating mediocre content
@@bestgamereveryt117 you know what else is massive
sorry
me when I get accused of war crimes when I'm in the military: "newsflash, this is a shooter"
Starting to think that our little cherub is a psychopath.
Once I got to gta, I was like “is he okay??”
Can’t say I’ve ever seen a man describe such a prolific craving for violence, and never thought Tucker would be the one to do it
Ate my food to this. Great vid
Thats a hell of a compliment
I too ate a hot pocket to this. Thanks tuck tuck!!!
I ate my caesar salad with bacon on the side to this!
@@amelia9662 Unlimited or limited bacon?
@@kingofthe238 unlimited bacon, but no games
Personally I think FGMS is a huge part of what makes the Red Dead games so immersive to me. The balance between doing what may be fun vs what is honorable gives the player the same sense of struggle that John and Arthur feel on their quests for personal redemption. The honor system gives me a much greater emotional connection to these characters, and I really feel like I understand what they're going through because of it. I don't think all games should have FGMS, but Red Dead is a perfect example of a game that is made better because of it imo.
Yeah, I get that people want to fuck around in video games, but sometimes they have a message, a point, and ya know, the gameplay will represent that. When a game wants it's world to be realistic, you're going to experience consequences, don't play a game that is wants realism if you want to get away with murder. Or get over it and suffer through feeling bad. I killed Sans in undertale, you can kill someone in fallout.
I think a huge fix would be to add a setting to turn it off if the player doesn't want it. Because it does suck that I can't mess with the ragdoll physics and roleplay an outlaw without doing online. I kind of would like to every once in a while between missions forget that I am part of the Dutch gang and just be my own outlaw.
@@Oblinski But if people don't start treating you negatively because of it would you really actually feel like you're playing as an outlaw?
I disagreed with his take abt it in red dead redemption john doesnt lose honor when he kills some bad people, but he should when he kills someone in a barfight. Realistically if abigail heard he killed to defend himself itd be like “damn that sucks at least hes okay” but if he shot someone to death for looking at him wrong, that would absolutely tarnish his image/honor to the ones he left behind at his inevitable end
@@Oblinskibut no one is forcing you not to, just do that and not worry about your honour
I think an immersion-breaking popup is a little much, but I like it when RPGs react to the major choices I make. It gives the choices you make a little more stake if characters might die or refuse to talk with you depending on how you choose to act.
Dying Light 2 could not have been a BIGGER disappointment in this regard, given all of the promises
Yeah, but it should definitely be realistic with the flow of information around the game world. In RDR, you kill a few people, and everyone around the globe knows your face and tries to kill you. That's not realistic. At most, the town should remember you, but not towns far away
I think having a problem with the notification that a game gives you makes sense, but having a game change the way it treats you based off of how it treats you is really interesting and allows for much more in depth and realistic story telling
The issue is when the game encourages "moral" play too hard. In a stealth game, killing is fun, holding back isn't. The choice isn't between evil and good, making choices whether it's right to kill or not to kill. The game made the choice for you, and you instantly know what ending you're heading towards, thus hurting the story.
Killing is fun. The game gives me tons of cool tools and animations to kill with, but I'm supposed to just repeat the same knockout move twenty thousand times for a better result. I don't want to choose between story and enjoyable gameplay.
I think the issue is that there should be a good alternative evil route tho
@@Creepernomi feel like the good options should be harder, a lot of the time being good is the harder tamer option, and i think its cool if games use that to their advantage
Imagine being an ex-soldier scrolling through RUclips and seeing your old wartime buddy Tucker Keane talking about video games on your feed
Low key, if rdr2’s honor system was hidden from the player it would feel way more impactful to see the deer or the wolf. It would put you in Arthur’s shoes of “oh shit I’m a piece of shit on limited timer.
Could also add a little bit uneasy of have you done enough good deeds to right your wrongs
You can disable the notifications for it in the game's options menu. Then you will only see the hud for your honor meter if you press a specific key
this, this makes so much more sense and i think wouldve been 1000% better i remember at the end of the game i was like, okay i gotta get my honor up so i can get the good ending instead of seeing the wolf in guarma and being like oh shit
It's almost like you're describing the first game lol
@ not even a little bit lol. Rdr’s honor system is shown to the player and had no effect on the story
all hail the cherub king
This is the first time I've seen Tucker full sized
Dishonoured is one of my favourite games. I thought the chaos system was great. The more destruction you leave in your wake, the more fearful and cautious your targets became, thus increased security. The rats helped remind you of the death toll you’ve accumulated, as you revisit areas, only to find the flesh eating rats have become more rampant following your previous killing spree
I love that in fable the karma system is mainly just becoming very ugly or very handsome
There were some spells that required evil/good alignment to master
You look like an utter badass in the first game if you go all evil, it's awesome.
@@THEonlyAEON until you start balding because of the horns.
I like that our boy Tucker is so easily dissuaded from doing evil in videogames by the implication that there's a digital god looking down on his actions. I think a funny visual bit would've been if he was wearing a cross or something for the whole video
I love dishonored’s rep system, its not overbloated theres no popups or telling you how your doing its just the world reacting to how you play
WE'RE SO BACK.
FINALLY! The fabled "third video" that we have been hearing so much about!
1:00 Tucker the only guy in the universe to have unlimited games
He must have chosen "Games. Unlimited games, but no games"
My main problem with FGMS is that it frames being a good person in a scale. A great example of this oddly enough comes from Gravity falls. Toward the end of the show the episode called "The Last Mablecorn" it is centered around Mabel trying to be a good person because she needs unicorn hair and the unicorn refused to let her because it deemed her bad and not worthy. So Mabel goes out in this adventure trying to do all these good tasks to make herself seem better but in the end the unicorn still refuses. Cant remember the quote but it basically tells her just bcause you do good things doesnt mean your a good person, its why you do them and being a good person for personal gain doesnt make you a bad pereon but does the opposite.
A lot of FGMS works like this. Your honor is low? Go do a good deed and now youll unlock whatever it was you wanted. It shouldnt be sonething you can just fix any time. It should be like certain missions or quests determine if your honor goes low or not and fix that, so your stuck with it for a while until your able to change it with another quest, but the problem is that now the previosu opportunities are gone. Like imagine a quest in fallout, it lowers your karma and locks you off from a quest. The next quest you do unlocks the karma locked quest but because of the quest you just completed that karma locked quest is forever gone. This would actually make you think and use your own morals rather than blidnly raising karma
If youve played Armored Core 6, the three different endings are kinda acheived like this. Eventually itll become impossible to change your ending as you sided with the wrong person too much throughout the game so now some opportunities are gone
"I just want a game with no substance where I can slaughter an entire town and nobody will care the next day"
Just play GTA, man.
Fr bro😭at the end his whole point is basically “i feel bad when a game tells me im bad so i dont do bad thing but when it doesnt i can mow down civilians in gta or prototype 😃☝️
Love the idea of how some games punish you for murdering a family of five, yet “schlatt” got away with so much more back in 99’
"News flash, i just unlocked a double barrel shotgun, i'm gonna use it... your honor" -me in court irl(in minecraft)
The Fable series was the first franchise I played that had a "morality system." I've always felt like the 2nd game did it the best cause you have 2 different "alignment" bars where you can be Good or Evil and Pure or Corrupt
You could be the best Hero possible but still be corrupt because you're charging rent far too high, or you could murder an entire town as an evil Hero yet be pure of heart because you've lowered shop prices. Different villages will see you differently based on how you treat them.
If you add the morality mechanic to Prototype it just becomes Infamous/Infamous: Second Son, which is even more fun than Prototype imo
A morality bar to prototype? Where the main thing is you eat people????? 😭
Cant say i agree, part of the appeal of RPG games is that my actions are directly affecting the world, if i go around on killing sprees I expect the game to react accordingly, for my character to get a reputation and to be treated different because of that.
The replayability in those of games come from that aspect, i can replay a game like fallout numerous times roleplaying as different types of characters, if the morailty systems didnt exist the game would suffer.
It seems your critique is the notifications the games give and less on the system itself.
Not a bad video, just seems like the focus is misdirected. Also lol at calling protoype successful alongside GTA at the end.
Tuckle Sandwich
Tucker is so funny in this video, his reactions to the losing honor or karma made me laugh several times. Primarily the segments at 3:35 and 10:30 were golden
The cherub is back
I really think things punishing you immerses me more, but I’m more surprised that you mentioned prototype and not infamous, very similar but with a fantastic karma system that rewards you for playing either bad or good
I love this video because Tuckers annoyance with the FGMS is genuinely so fucking funny. His perfect open world game lacks a god and social consequences
I like to have consequences in my games I feel even more evil 🙂
Tucker: *does something dishonorable*
Game: “hey you lost honor”
Tucker: >:(
If you want to be evil in a game where it kinda condems you, why feel bad when the game tells you your evil when that's what you want? Just dont be evil in a game where it condems you if you dont like the consequences lol
While I kind of agree with the takes I feel like games with these honor systems more often than not increase my immersion
I liked the video, but I disagree with the stances presented in this video for a number of reasons. The reason why games have these sort of systems is because they want to simulate consequence, and while you have rightly pointed out that this simulation of consequence is flawed, I do not think that its removal would benefit the type of narrative a game like Fallout or Dishonored is trying to achieve.
GTA, Prototype, and the many other similar city based crime open world games are about bad people doing bad things. It makes sense for these games to not have a system like this because the attempting to communicate that message. The themes of the gameplay are closely in line with the ability for the player to do what they want, the world does not attempt to pretend it is anything but a slaughterhouse sandbox for the player to enjoy
Conversely, a game like Fallout is about a world that is filled with consequence. You are an individual in this world, and your choices cause reaction. While these systems aren't great, I would actually argue they lack a lot of the consequence you seem to posit that they contain. I would actually prefer a version of New Vegas where I am hunted down by family members of my numerous dead innocents, then there might be some real actual impact instead of just getting a numeric score.
Your commentary on Dishonored was even more interesting. Yes, a major contrast in the game is that the ability for Corvo to absolutely slaughter anyone in his way, and the consequences of doing so is an often described tension in the game. Yet, when the narrative of the game is about the ideals of staying true to yourself, even when you have been framed, even when you have been used, this tension is a narrative device. Corvo CAN sink to the level of his enemies, he can murder every single person in his path. But in doing so, he has confirmed the lies that got him in this situation in the first place. He has imparted onto Emily that violence is the way to get what you want, and that the person with the most violence, wins. I would not like a version without this ending, because it would frankly feel incongruous should I have acted violent the whole way through.
I think its curious that you find that you force yourself to play nice in scenarios where the game presents options that are not so. Dishonored, for instance, did not have to have two endings, but the devs choose to do this. Not playing nice in dishonored is content, it is a part of the game that can be experienced and a reading of the game's narrative is not wholly complete without it. I would even argue that the feeling of discomfort is intended, in a similar way that when the protagonist of a tv/movie does something bad or heinous, we the audience are disturbed by it.
on the contrary, i think honor systems add to the immersion if they’re able to do feedback without having an egregious popup. cause if you play like a maniac and the game just acts like it didn’t happen, THATS what breaks the immersion for me.
that switzerland background when you’re talking about neutrality lmao
I heavily disagree when it comes to dishonored. Taking a life is a decision, and society getting worse and more chaotic as you eradicate the members of said society from only makes complete sense
"I just got a sawed off shot gun and I intend to use it" lmao facts though
I need a game where you can enter a large city multiplayer lobby and take up an optional role to join one of 4 rivaling groups: in either an authoritative good group, a vigilante good group, a selfish but ordered gang, or a chaotically blood-thirsty gang, makes me think maybe of something like watch_dogs and how they had police, DedSec, Blume Corporation, and the literal street gangs
I was so excited to see this in my subscription box
Tucker has a really entertaining commentary style, great video Cherub!
this is the guy with the two children he babysits
OMG OMG I’ve been PRAYING for another video from Tucker Keane!
This is my first time seeing a tucker video after seeing him on chuckle good job man keep it up!
i think red dead’s morality system is dope, i understand getting a bounty cause you knocked a guy out in a bar makes absolutely no sense, but for shooting innocents, Arthur and John were both taught not to do that, to rob the institutions that hold the common man back. i also love that you aren’t being judged by nothing, or the game developers magic non existent man in the sky. in red dead your actions are judged by the strange man, and there a reason narratively for why its there
hell yeah more tucker videos
gaming deep dives from our hero tucker
We miss you Tucker!
MAMA TUCKER YOUVE RETURNED QUEEN
5:52 Red dead is set at the turn of the 1920th century, its actually a scifi game
I got the great opportunity to meet Tucker in person and he is just as nice as he seems, I freaked out in the moment but it was awesome to meet you Tucker!
Personally, the thing I find the most bothersome about these systems is that they not only feel patronizing, but also often break immersion rather than reinforce it. It's annoying to be constantly chastised by the game for choosing to not constantly act in the absolute most morally righteous way possible, especially if you spend the majority of the game choosing the "right" choices. In addition to that, most games don't commit enough to the system for it to make sense within the world that your character inhabits. If I rob and murder some random guy in the wilderness, why should citizens three towns over treat me any differently? To add to that, most of the games that involve honor systems don't commit to them enough to make the systems feel truly immersive. Sure, in games like RDR2 there are some dialogue and cutscene changes depending on your honor level, but for most of the game, Arthur acts more or less the same regardless of the player's actions. More than any of that, though, I feel that too many games tend to punish the player for making bad choices rather than reward them for good choices. For instance, most games will have vendors increase shop prices or have characters act outwardly hostile to you if you damage your karma enough, then give you an ending that feels downright insulting to the player's time in most cases. Because in most games the honorable option is almost always the more inconvenient option for the player, I believe that an honorable character should still be treated better by the in-game world, but a dishonorable character should instead be treated relatively neutral. Essentially, I believe that instead of bad vs. good, I think the game should treat it as neutral vs. evil, as in almost all games with an honor system, it feels like the low honor route is the "wrong" way to play.
In gta online if you call merryweather for a helicopter pickup and kill the pilot to take the chopper they’ll refuse to send another one but I think that’s like the only example of morality in that game (great video by the way🙌)
😂😂Tucker you are now my favorite chuckle dad. I love your nonchalant portrayal of the atrocities we all commit in red dead redemption
you have proper potential to be a 1 million subscriber channel, keep it up bro ❤
Thank you, that's such a kind comment
Okay if videos like this keep being made I'll be back a lot. Actually had me laughing at a few points which is rare for me on RUclips.
Please never change your channel banner it’s amazing
AC Mirage did a great thing with the Notoriety system. If you kill guards in front of civilians, you get more guards becoming hostile towards you if they see you for long enough, then guards on random rooftops, and finally a Mercenary mini-boss. To reduce your notoriety, you kill the Mercenary, take down wanted posters, or pay a Power Token to one of the city NPCs. Or you can not raise it at all if you kill in the bushes, or away from the civillain NPCs.
Tucker and his video games. Haha, classic Tucker
First of all, this is such an interesting topic. I love these green-screened videogame analysis videos. Secondly, I love morality systems in games. I think it’s such an interesting idea to incorporate morality into violent games and let players consider the weight of their actions. I’m not saying that players should feel ashamed of their actions necessarily (although that can be a powerful emotion when tapped into), I just think the acknowledgment of moral weight is super interesting- whether you abide by the judgement of a game’s universe or not. The premise of a game world reacting to your actions gives that world a feeling of dynamic interactivity and transformation. You actively are shaping the tensions of characters and the way the environment reacts to you with every decision you make. That is an awesome mechanic. I feel like players who have a problem with their immoral actions being acknowledged are weak minded. You essentially want to be able to be completely evil and abhorrent, and have the world treat you like a hero regardless. Don’t be a coward, not every game lets you have it both ways. If you truly want to be a monster, then what’s wrong with the game reflecting your actions back at you? Surely a game treating you like a villain should be a badge of honour to a player who enjoys anarchistic destruction? Just deal with the consequences of your actions. Either stand by your immorality, or decide to take more honourable actions. I decided to do a low-honour playthrough of Red Dead 2 after having only done high-honour playthroughs previously. Leaning into an evil persona, being recklessly cruel and having the game take note of it is entirely part of the fun. I think that’s why morality systems are so well fitted for RPG games. You have to really consider the personality of the character you’re playing as (or often have created) and act accordingly based on that moral compass. When a game reminds you you’ve been a horrible person, you feel so much more emotionally tapped into what you’re doing. However you decide to respond to that is your prerogative.
Tucker is my moral compass
One of my favorite series is infamous because the game doesnt try to guilt you to do the good guy route. But ways to play gave consequences. Its more just if you wanna play a super hero or super villain game
“I just got the sawed off shotgun and I’m gonna use it” would NOT hold up in court
i want to recognize the Wario World OST that i noticed in a section of this video. let’s go tucker!!!
Somebody had to notice!
I clicked on this video as background noise and I legitimately, genuinely didn’t know it was our favorite boy Tucker
Tucker looking like a 2010 video essay RUclipsr and I am here for it ✋🤚
Tucker taking main character vibes? I'm in. Dude, Tucker, you nailed it.
i am so here for this keanetent from my dad
I got like 5 min into this video and finally realized it was Tucker. 10/10 video man, got lost in the sauce
Tucker, this was a pretty good video, and i liked this regardless of chuckle sandwich. But you should try being something like bizly. Be comedic, or at least make people feel interested by showing YOUR interest. I can see so much potential, and this is something i would watch without it being on the background. Keep it up, im excited to see where you go.
You can kill every npc in a city and walk to the next city and they've never heard of you in skyrim.
dude i just saw this on my recommended and thought it looked good, didnt even REALIZE until like a minute it it was our favorite Cherub from the Chuckle Sandwhich Podcast
6:57 did not expect to see a mikan
Tucker playing danganronpa is a very strange image
they way you described the chaos system of dishonored reminds me a bit of how undertale’s morality system operates with the different “runs” you can do based on your hostility/pacificity
Prototype reminds of red faction guerrilla. The main difference is that it’s on mars. But other than that everything in the environment is destructible and you are able to use these destroyed pieces of environment to destroy other things. It was so much fun.
wake up y'all new tucker video
5:47 set off my phone Siri with that one lmao 😂
Im happy to see that you survived the "markiplier" incident, "tucker"
I love dishonored but a good portion of it was me longingly looking at the sick ass shadow abilities that tear people in half knowing if I use them my chaos would go up
ABOUT TIME MR CHERUB OF CHUCKLE SANDWICH 🥪
Super interesting Cherub Tucker! I honestly totally disagree lol, but I totally understand why your opinion is different. To me a game forcing you to make a choice and not just getting whatever you want adds depth, but I totally get how sometimes its portrayed really preachy. Great video!
Tucker ur the real chuckle of my sandwich
This is some fire content
One of my favorite morality systems is from InFamous 2. Story implications of it SUCK, and almost every evil action is just so cartoonish but regardless of if you do good or evil play throughs you get rewarded with unique and new powers. But it also has the same problem with giving notifications at every opportunity which I agree with you is very immersion breaking.
I genuinely enjoy Skyrim's version of this since it is localized and can be changed by many things such as the civil war. Bounty tracking based on region makes much more sense and makes the world feel so much more dynamic
I love this video format! Great job Tucker!
Tbh, I think literally just having the notifications as an optional feature would go a long way. A witness system would be good as well (though many games already have that), BUT only if the morality system is based around crime and punishment from other people in the game world. You could absolutely forego a witness mechanic if the morality system is specifically meant to track your character's actions from a meta perspective, say for example you get a unique bad ending if your character is too violent across the playthrough, or maybe the final boss is an omniscient god arriving to punish you for the sins you committed throughout the game.
watch dogs had a system like this but it was purely story related
the only thing that changed was like some radio messages at different points of the game
Which one? It's been so long since I played any of those that I don't even remember this being a thing
i like feeling like im listening to my morning news anchor talk about video games
This is a damn good video man hell yeah!!! Sick as hell I hope to see more dude you're a natural at this!!!
LMAO I was watching this and more than half way through was like wait I know this guy I think
Dude same
@Jakeyisdead dude.. we should merge
I think RDR2 Is definitely the exception to this because the whole story is about Arthur Morgan fighting his raw instincts to do whatever he wants and have fun to instead become a good man and I feel like the morality system really ties into this nicely
Infamous series is also guilty of karma system but it does it in a super fun way that changes gameplay and abilities based on good vs. evil actions. Highly recommend checking it out if you haven't already
Glad to see fellow chucklers in here
Looking great Tucker love the video thank you for uploading!
I'm surprised Undertale wasn't mentioned in this, I love how the morality system is hidden until the ending when it's revealed your 'Level' (or 'LV') is actually short for LOVE (Level of Violence) and only increases when you kill NPC's
This video is great and as a game dev genuinely informative. Please make more :D