The difference between Hypercar and LMP1 is Shocking.
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- Опубликовано: 11 янв 2024
- We compared the fastest laps of two championship-winning Toyota endurance cars.
LMP1 - Toyota TS050 Hybrid
Hypercar - Toyota GR010 Hybrid
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Fantastic comparison, especially for specific turns. Didn't realise there was a 6s difference, the acceleration on the 2020 LMP1 was mental
The lmp1 cars were rapid (lets not include the f1 cars)
Stupid energy deployment rules for hypercars...
There’re cockpit videos of Porsche and Toyota’s later LMP1s that really showcases how insanely fast these hybrids accelerate
@@rosgoncharuk2403 So they are making them slower instead of using bio-gas like ethanol?
And the 2020 LMP1 Toyota was nerfed a lot at that moment of the season thanks to the succes ballast/handicap, a 2016-2018 LMP1 Toyota was even faster
Hypercars are restricted to using only 680hp... When their unrestricted combined is over 900hp... The LMP1, Toyota in this case, was using 1.000hp with the Hybrid, and had much better aero, so yeah, the difference is as expected. With the full 900+ horsepower that the GR010 should have without being limited by the WEC regs, it would still be slower but not by that much difference. And it would probably be almost as fast in Le Mans since without the hybrid, the GR010 has 680hp whil the TS050 only has 500... So over those long straights, the GR010 would cover a lot of that time.
LMP1 (2007-2020) is still the overall fastest Prototype category in history though.
Fr fr. Hypercars also just look a lil bit cooler now since there a bit more freedom for variation. I wish the Bolide could join cuz it looks badass. The AMR valkyrie though. 🥵
I don't think this is the only issue, Hypercars weigh a whopping 160kg more than LMP1, approx 1030 kg vs 870 kg, affects handling, acceleration, and such
@@kerimca98It's certainly a big part of it though. The boost matters most in the corner exit as it's mainly acceleration rather than pushing air.
The top speed between the two is roughly the same at LM, but the LMP1 gets there a lot quicker.
LMP1 could do 340kmh with a tow, Hypercar struggles to do that as they're still accelerating.
@@kerimca98Calling them MOLMP1 (Morbidly Obese LMP1) would be a more accurate name than Hypercar.
@@FlashoftheBladesI think that the ACO will start letting hypercars get lighter and faster once manufacturer interest plateaus.
LMP1 was insane but the fact that IMSA GTP and WEC Hypercar classes can compete against one another now is awesome
What about like for like 2020 F1 then? Over 12secs faster than LMP1.
@@1010thechamp Can't do more than 2 hours of racing though
@@sunfyre4705 I'm pretty sure they can, just keep refueling and changing tyres... engine alone can go 9 race weekends, that alone is a much roughly as 24hrs of lemons distance,
@@1010thechamp Brakes would be beyond cooked for an F1 car at that point. An F1 race weekend is around 300 kms. Last year's Le Mans was around 4700. You'd have to significantly detune an F1 engine, rework the suspension, cockpit and install headlights. You'd pretty much end up with an LMP1 anyway.
@@1010thechamp in addition to what the other person said, f1 parts are sent to the factory after every race for maintainence. This includes suspensions, wings, chassis, floor, casings etc.
And f1 cars are very brittle and hard to fix compared to wec. A small contact with another car can damage the barge board or sidepod, which will pretty much put that car out of contention. Changing drivers will also be slower.
And even though the engine might last the race distance, they will see a substantial decrease in efficiency after 10 hours compared to lmp1 ones.
So yes, f1 compeleting a 24 hour race is out of question. Even completing a 6 or 8 hour race will be an achievement.
Lmp and f1 cars of previous regs were incomprehensibly fast! 🔥
The world has gone soft
no, P1 was just obscenely expensive compared to Hypercar, especially when VAG (as Porsche and Audi) and Toyota were involved. Ever rising costs were what eventually killed GT1, GT2/GTE and Group C to some extent. Also people really need to stop saying "the worlds gone soft/woke/turned into a congregate of snowflakes" as a catch all term to describe everything that don't fit their pov, because a lot of times it simply isn't true
@@mrairfreshener477having two of the biggest car companies going head to head in one of the most sophisticated and open categories causes such arm races. As much as i love lmp1H it was very unsustainable especially with running a LMGTE program as well pun not intended. Current competition with LMH/DH is much better hopefully same with LMGT3
Funny thing is the 2020 TS050 was like 4 seconds slower than the 2017 car. They slowed them down so the Rebellion could keep up
Very cool to see these visuals. What would also be cool to see is the lateral G's difference between the two classes as they're going through the corners. It's obvious the LMP1 car is able to pull higher G's in the corners and then pulls away even further given the power advantage too.
Mind-boggling, I remember seeing Porsche 919 accelerating on the finish straight at Le Mans and it was insane how fast they built speed. But let's not forget that if you compare speed vs cost, the Hypercar wins huge.
One aspect I hate about racing nowadays. Everything now is about saving money and cutting costs, not just in WEC as a whole but F1, Indy car, nascar etc. If you want to be apart of the best of the best series then I think you should put the money where your mouth is to be able to compete. Instead of smaller teams now whining that they can keep up so they have to keep implementing cost caps. Annoying because it feels like two steps back and one forward when this happens.
@@AgentStark Yeah, and the end result of what you propose? Car companies will simply stop competing because it's too expensive. They don't care about "putting your money where your mouth is".
It's exactly what killed LMP1. Car companies no longer willing to fork out the cash needed to develop/run one of those machines.
Do the same in F1 and 80% of the grid disappears.
@@AgentStarkyeah like every manufacturers/company have unlimited budget for racing lol. Unlimited budget racing are always doomed.
@@ardijanuar2036 I mean F1 had been doing it since its start and now all of a sudden in the past 5 or so years they implement a cost cap.
@@ardijanuar2036 I guess my main point is some series are not meant to be cheap or have standardized parts for all cars. I think that’s why F1 has been losing its image lately.
I knew that the LMP1 was faster than a hypercar, but I never would have thought the difference to be that big
Tbh, I expected the difference to be big because hypercars are slower than even the 2010-2020 LMP2, they nerfed the LMP2 to make that category slower than hypercar.
@@hikari2752 Jesus, fr?
@@hikari2752 Around which track, because thats not true at Le Mans.
@@andrewcarter9649 For example Bahrain. In 2023 Pole time was set by #8 Toyota with the time of 1:46.564. In the 2019 the fastest time set by the LMP2 was #22 United Autosports with the 1:45.357
@@andrewcarter9649 When they drew up the regs, the target was 3:30 @ Le Mans. That's LMP2 territory. (or it was, at least ...). And by neutering the LMP2 they made racing a lot more complicated for them, as in a straight line it was a lot harder to pass a GTE with similar power output.
Really informative and the visualisation is top notch!
Happy to see some WEC content on the channel
Wow, I just love these videos! The graphics, the music, the data, all assembled in a captivating package.
Even more kudos to you if the racing lines are accurate.
Keep it up, bro. These make my day
The acceleration difference is mainly due to the time when the electric boost could be deployed. Plus LMP1s were lighter as far as I know.
Plus they had a lot more hp when ic and electric combined
@@rofufoja LMP1 had more downforce too
@ananastudio affect top speed but not really acceleration
Electricity should go. It's a joke.
@@Firemarioflowersaid the joke
On some tracks the Hypercar lap record is barely faster than the unrestricted Oreca 07 LMP2 lap record. So yeah its considerably slower than an LMP1-H car
Makes sense considering they are basically LMP2 tubs with hybrid systems and custom engines.
@@meekrab9027 Thats an LMDh car, not an LMH which are entirely bespoke. Not that it matters, LMP1 and 2 both shared the exact same rules for the tubs.
The funny thing about lmp2 was, that they had the more powerful engine compared to lmp1 so lapping on long straights was barely achievable for lmp1 cars.
@@lisaruhm6681I mean the ICE in the old LMP1 cars only had about 550hp compared to the 600 or so the LMP2's had but the hybrid systems were pushing out in excess of 900hp on their own, LMP1 cars accelerated like nothing else and certainly at Le Mans had no trouble getting past LMP2 cars.
From the video the straight-line speed and actual cornering and braking seemed similar, it was corner exit traction that really made the difference.
Especially slow corner exits, which is probably due to the new cars not being allowed to use the hybrid system below a speed set by BoP.
I just wish they were as fast as the old LMP1 non-hybrid. At Le Mans they were putting up LMP2 times.
Superb comparison. Always wanted to see what differences in rules change are
The late stages of the LMP1 era and the 2014 - 2021 F1 era was truly a golden period of motorsport engineering and construction. I truly wonder if the FIA will ever allow cars to go that fast ever again. Some of those track records may stand for eternity if not.
I'm definitely glad that there's so much interest/involvement with LMH/LMDh, and I understand part of the reason LMP1 was so quick was due to the costs, but there's a part of me that's definitely sad that they aren't this fast anymore. But, the racing is good at least!
This comparison was phenomenal!
How do you determine the exact track position of each car? Are the coordinates of the cars recorded and if so at what time intervals? Is it some type of track positioning system or is it GPS? Thanks for the Vids...very entertaining!
The telemetry data from each sector is available. That combined with the racing line should suffice I'm guessing.
@@VarunSarathy If that's the case then the animation is super super approximate. It shows the cars weaving on track and taking different lines through turns....let's see if the publisher answers...
@@indiason My guess is that its the telemetry data, racing line and the onboard footage with the speedometers. There's likely a website out there that has full replays of races, be it free or not. Even then, I would assume this is a time consuming process and incredibly difficult to even approximate it. Additionally, comparing two kinds of onboard footage could also help.
@@indiasonall you need is an overlay of the car positions on the track map. Very easy
@@DB-fn3fz Yep, that’s the tough part…where do they get the exact track position data from? GPS coordinates on a second by second basis would do it…
Excellent video! 6.45s difference is totally worth the +/- $120m annual saving 😅 Could you do a Class One to GT3 DTM comparison?
Its almost like comparing prime LMP1 (2015-2020) and prime LMP2 (2017-2020). In some tracks old regulation LMP2 are even faster than hypercars.
You should make a video about the process of creating video like this and how do you collect the data, it should be amazing!
Awesome vídeo. Really awesome. Greetings from Brazil.
Thx for this video.. is great.. add a speed meter pls ..❤
Would be amazing having this comparisons for WRC too
1. Perfect video.
2. Can you imagine what a car built today to the Group C rulebook would look like? And how many corners a decent driver without a G-Suit could manage before passing out or snapping his neck?
The Hypercars are by no means slow. The good thing is that there's a few manufacturers have come to play rather than the 2 - 3 that would come to LMP1. Thanks for the comparison - it's interesting
You should do a comparison between the Lmdh and Dpi cars at some point.
Can you do a comparison between the 919 Evo and the qualifying 919?
LMP1 was the pinnacle of sports car racing, the absolute bleeding edge of speed and technology. The new Hypercars, and especially the LMDh’s, are much closer in technology and performance to the old LMP2s and 3s classes. It’s a goddamn shame that prototype AND gt racing has been effectively neutered over the last few years.
I'd much rather have these slower cars and a full grid of 20 than no racing at all, which is what we'd have if LMP1 and it's F1 budgets stuck around. GTE's were cool, but all the manufacturers pulled out, that class died the same way Group C and GT1 did.
@@andrewcarter9649 " No racing at all" is total BS.
@@nicomeier8098 When you've only got 2 Toyota's how much racing do you expect?
Bro can you also share in the desc the songs used??? Also, damn... I miss LMP1 speed... They're just built different..
Amazing comparison.
The new chase camera is really cool.
It's much faster, it's got legendary status, for sure.
But no one want to melt shit tons of money on the ultimate holy grail leading edge technology cars anymore.
Probably in the future someday, the tech will advance and get cheap enough that we got that kind of performance back and still got tens of Hypercar on the track without manufacturer crying on the R&D cost lmao.
the difference is big enough that pre-Hypercar era spec LMP2 cars would compete or even pass today's Hypercars
Pre-hypercar LMP2 is faster.
@@hikari2752 literally my comment ??
@@hikari2752 It depends on the track
would be intersting an indepth video with techical explanation and presentation on model why this is
Should do one for Porsche. Wonder if the higher mega joule usage of the 919 hybrid compared to the TS050 would make a bigger difference over the 963 LMDh
RIP Tractor. You were the best of us.
do hypercar vs gt500 (supergt) at fuji
I reckon GT500 would be faster now. Which is cool because it actually looks like a real road car, so in some ways it feels more like an actual Toyota “hypercar”
Really cool animation
In 2020 it was shocking to have only 2 lmp1 hybrids...
There was also only 2 LMP1 hybrid in 2018 and 2019
@@ananastudio if you mean only hybrid yes , because no hybrid were ginetta, rebellion, smp racing.
And just 5 cars overall in LMP1 in 2020.
Its crazy how fast out of the corners the lmp1 is
LMH has both an HP restriction, as well as a restriction on hybrid use at lower speeds
the 190kph minimum speed for hybrid deployment is stupid
well, that's BOP to make other manufacture can compete with equal performance, without BOP Toyota will keep dominating even Ferrari can't even get close to beat Toyota without that
Please gtp vs dpi
I don't understand why all race series just keep getting slower and slower.
I know it won't happen but I dream of the day a successor of group C with current tech and loose restrictions come around and turn the racing world upside down.
that acceleration of the LMP1 is awesome
LMH are just LMP2 cars in fancy bodywork, thats why they had to slow down the actual LMP2 class even more.
LMP2 used to actually be fast, now they are halfway toward GTE speeds.
I guess the spectators wont mind, but the P2 must be boring af to drive nowadays.
Reminder that faster cars don't mean better racing. The LMP1 class was getting stale af if you actually watched the races
Do you have a cost (CapEx/OpEx) comparison too?
That was the main reason WEC and IMSA changed the spec. LMP1 was crazy cost for teams and sponsors.
LMH was supposed to have crazier regs but Aston wanted regs the be easier so the Valkyrie could race and ACO had 1.5 manu's onboard for LMH so they agreed. IMSA just wanted unification finally so they agreed to change course with DPI 2.0 (which as a result became LMDh) as DPi was pretty cost effective already.
You're looking at around $20mil per year for an LMH program, LMP1 was more like $200mil.
How did you get the data for this one?
I imagine he just took the fastest lap times for each car?
I meant car speed + car position (but it looked too similar, maybe it is just an approximation)
It's not shocking. Prices reduce so does the speed but reduced prices bring a lot of big manifacturers which is a huge success
And now take into consideration that the 2020 TS050 was never really really heavily to give the opposition a chance. It was barely a LMP1 anymore by its weight, power and energy levels...
this big difference in acceleration is because LMP1 can deploy its hybrid system anytime while the Hypercar can only use it above 120km/h ig
gotta keep in mind that this is a completely new class, itll take time for the cars to develop and become quick, kinda like the 2014 F1 regulations.
Yeah between LMP1 and those monster F1 cars 2020 was pretty much the fastest year for motorsports
F1 2024 will get close to F1 2020 I think
@@ThePgR777 I doubt it. The 2020 merc was 2.4 seconds per lap quicker at Bahrain than the 2023 redbull
Also with Class 1 Touring cars in DTM and Super GT
@@kerb23 They will probably cut 1 second this year, is getting close
Well we all know the LMP1 class was way faster but now we have multiple teams racing for wins so I'd say it's a fair trade.
Being new to WEC I am not sure what to make of these classes. I just wish CANAM was still around. Haha. But Im old and I like my racing a bit spicy. Hehe.
The on board view reminds me of Mariokart for the Super Nintendo.
Yes but we already knew this, the FIA said in the final year of lmp1 in 2020 that the hypercars would be 4.5 seconds a lap slower at Spa, but they completely changed the Toyota Lmp1 in 2020 to be much slower than in previous years, the 2020 Toyota lmp1 had less than 900 horsepower, compared to previous years when it had 1,000 horsepower, but remember the lmp1 hybrids had to manually deploy their hybrid and they only got so many seconds per lap they could deploy it and their combustion engines were only about 500 horsepower while the non hybrid lmp1s had around 750 horsepower, the same as the DPI prototypes in IMSA at the time
What i don't get is why they do AWD setups with the hybrid system! When they can't even use hybrid under like 80mph taking advantage of the traction AWD would give on exit.
Hypercar energy deployment rules suck...
It's crazy how slow the cars have become. I know they are going to get faster years progress but still shocking imo. Seems like every racing event has gotten slower.
Anyone know the song in the background?
Track?
Gotta love when they make race cars slower 🤪
LMP1's were monsters
I don't follow WEC too much, but after reading the comments, why is it that the Hypercar class regulated to be slower than LMP1?
Like, I always imagine FIA introduced the Hypercar class with one of the regulations was to be road car homologation, which would make the cars look less like LMP1 in general, and aerodynamically be slower than LMP1. But no, all Hypercar cars look 95% the same as LMP1 so far, but slower? What's the logic behind it here, other than simply "cost saving measure"? ((which would blown out after several years anyway according to the history of any racing class ever, let's be real))
Guys, it's the first year of the new specification. Leave them time and even the BHP restriction will be overcome
That's just crazy
hypercars create better racing imo
seems like there is an enormous difference in acceleration/traction out of the turns.
What is this? I don't understand WEC
The intent was to reduce cost to draw in more manufacturers and closer racing so the fact that the hypercar is slower than the LMP1 is expected. What part is shocking?
How much did you pay to rent these two cars?
Who has more horsepower
Unbelievable Content
This is why they had to restrict the LMP2 cars heavily in their final year in WEC.
I have some catching up to do with WEC ! Just woke up from the Bahrain GP #frustratedF1fan!!
How about LMP1 vs LMH and Group C
Considering the fact that in Le Mans, the TS050 managed a time 1 Tenth faster than the 1985 Group C pole of the Porsche 956, that didn't had to contend with the Dunlop chicane nor the 2 chicanes on the Mulsanne straight.... Yeah LMP1 is quite a bit faster. And if we're going for peak Group C speed, the Peugeot 905, which did had to contend with the Dunlop chicane and the chicanes in the Mulsanne straight, but still had a generally faster track, it was roughly 7 seconds slower than the TS050, but around a second faster than the 499P did in the 2023 qualifying.
Too bad the power cutting phenomenon is happening in almost all motorsport (f1 motogp wrc lemans etc)
I think the Hypercars will find a way to close the gap over the years. But we needed a step back, because the costs of R&D for the LMP1s just got too high. LMHs and LMDHs are cheaper and therefore more attractive for the Constrictors. See what it did: We now got Porsche and BMW back, and Ferrari, Cadillac, Alpine and Peugeot. Some smaller teams like Vanwall are also her, although just like Glickenhaus, it won't be for long. But Aston Martin will make a move too, and there's rumours about Honda joining one day. Lots of competition for Toyota now!
Idc, if slower cars mean more racing I’m all for it
its not a clickbait im geniunly shocked
Thing is that if there would not be a BOP then current LMP2 would be faster than Hypercar. That’s also one of the reasons why they disappearing from WEC this year
Hypercar Toyota GR010: 1040 kg
LMP1 Toyota TS050: 875 kg
In Bahrain, Toyota had 1080 kg
I think the 2023 gr 10 looks amazing
It’s 3 years later and they’ve changed the rules of design . What did you expect !
Is that Bahrain circuit ?
Correct
6 seconds around barhain is mental
The main diference is 150 Million US dollars in budget...
Would have been easier at a glance if one wasn`t white and red. Otherwise great video.
Why does this shock people so much? They had to nerf LMP2 cars to make sure that they were slower than LMH cars - a clear indication of what the pace (and goal for pace) was for the new class.
I knew the LMP1's were faster but not by that much.
What are u saying? Toyota's LMP literally beat the LeMans/DeLaSarthe record even with all the chicanes. It was extremely fast
From a technical point of view, lmp1 and hypercar isn't very different. The poweroutput and downforce are at a similar level. What makes the difference is the wieght. Hypercars are minimum 1050kg while lmp1 was 878kg (833kg for non hybrids). This means hypercar have to brake earlier, rotate a bit slower, and accelarate out of corners slower.
This is just wrong. Hypercars are able to produce about 900hp but by regulation are only allowed to use at most 700hp at any given moment while LMP1 cars could produce up to 1500hp but were limited to only using around 1000hp from 2015/16. They also produce considerably less downforce, LMH rules have a set downforce to drag ratio which is deliberately set fairly low.
@@andrewcarter9649 The downforce difference isn't that big.
@@Jesko.Yes, it is. It's set up in the rules that if you want lots of downforce then you have to have lots of drag, and given the nature of Le Mans nobody is doing that.
@@andrewcarter9649 The downforce to drag ratio is 4:1. Stop over exaggerating.
This is what 300 extra horsepower and 4 wheel drive from 0 km/h looks like.
Compare this against a 2020 f1 car too
So if Alonso ever gets into a Hypercar, he will mention several times: LMP2 engine!