Quit Lying Saying You Create Brand Identities
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- Опубликовано: 1 мар 2023
- In this video, we explore the difference between identity design and branding and make the argument that identity design is not branding. We argue that identity design is just one part of the branding process, and that it's important to be clear about the specific services you offer and not to overstate your expertise.
Do you ACTUALLY create brand identities or do you design logos? Be honest!
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This video could be summarised in:
Brand identity is 10% of the Branding process and without the other 90% your brand is hollow.
I really believe that brand identity is super important for business owners, not for the customers. It's all about how the brand guides everything we do for our clients. When we stay true to our brand identity, it helps us keep focused on why we do what we do and how we want our clients to perceive us.
Sure, customers might not know our mission or vision word-for-word, but they definitely feel the experience we create through our sales, services, and customer interactions-all of which should reflect our brand identity.
In short, having a strong brand identity ensures that everyone in the company is on the same page, delivering a consistent message and experience to customers.
Thanks for the video Chris
Chris is doing something very important here, clarifying language and definitions, something vital for the clear communication of ideas. It's just like when people use marketing and sales interchangeably, or marketing and advertising interchangeably. Not the same thing. Related, yes, but different. It breeds confusion, disunion, and fragmented efforts. Also the case with brand, branding, brand identity, brand identity systems, brand strategy, etc, etc. All are different things. Related, yes, but different.
If we're confused, our customers will be even more confused, and we'll lack the confidence and knowledge to help them. Learn the differences and communicate them properly. Yes, there are actual definitions and authoritative bodies that define these things, find out who and what they are, do some digging, ask around, put in the work. Let's not be intellectually lazy. Search to find the answers and your confidence will rise, then you'll know that you're speaking authoritatively.
Confidence starts with finding clarity.
But does he have to be a douche lord to the people genuinely interested in learning??
I have been following him for around 3-ish years but this single video rubbed me the wrong so much that now I think he’s honestly just a tool.
Chris is like a parent giving you a lecture after you came home drunk from a design party.
Great job!
I appreciate how Chris challenges the norms of people's thoughts and gives space for people to talk it out and see in real time the thought process and learn to recalibrate it.
Thank you Alex.
To prove why branding is important is because Louie V was created for sturdy and durable luggage not clothes. No one cares about the quality of the product anymore, just the brand associated with.
He said “very few people buy brand”. That’s not true. Never underestimate brand power.
Chris was much more argumentative and defiant than helpful, which is very odd.
I think the argument that tone of voice, messaging, visuals, photographic styles and motif are not Brand Identity is very weak. This was most a conflict but I think a defined conclusion was missing to tie the rethoric thrown around nicely.
Daniel, it was set up to be argumentative. it was a framework is sometimes use during my workshops. "Prove me wrong: Identity design doesn't matter". the arguments that were thrown out weren't that well articulated as people got really emotional.
it was a lesson on how to argue and make a case so I was being argumentative to help everyone find a better position.
@@thefutur Don't you think some of your underminining of the importance of Brand Identity also came from an emotional place?
I say this because Brand Identity was a core pillar of a loved series of yours: Building a Brand, and 9/10 of those episodes circled around identity, exploration and consistency. So to hear you now saying it doesn't matter at all really has me thinking a lot.
Thank you @DanielOrtega for pointing this out. It was quite frustrating to watch..
Could there be a better conclusion to this?
@@thefutur oh, because the title confused me a bit. Thanks for letting know.
I'm teaching a "Branding" Workshop in April to small businesses, but its only focused around identity design. Maybe now i have to change the name but its not nearly as marketable. This is one of those lessons that annoys me right now, im thankful to have the clarity. Can always count on chris for that lol.
I'm sorry for doing that to you. it's okay to teach logo design. typography. identity design. and not add branding to it. It might be a little more difficult to market. I can see that. but it'll be clear.
I think you should still teach them that stuff.
But I think you should also consider what would be of the most value to them. If they are small businesses. Outside of a nice looking logo which I do think is important. I love well put together identities. How much value is it going to give them? Their audience might be say the local area, a town for example. To a small bakery maybe what's the most important thing is ensuring their famous baguettes never dip in quality so investing in that might be better than into building brand equity at the moment. because spending the money to keep that going is what the customers value not the logo so much. But maybe they get a new machine I'm not sure really the solutions off the top of my head. That problem is solved and they know that that piece of value is locked in. Now they might think its worth to spend money on branding as they are looking to open another store in another town. So want that awareness, brand trust, loyalty, there :-).
I disagree that identity doesn't matter. Which is where the logo and other visual elements come in :-) they offer a badge of quality which is instantly recognisable. Those marketing materials will have logos, patterns, colours, hierarchies consistent layouts. All coming from the identity. Which is also as important to prospective customers. I would have to look up the theory but if you are not initially interested in that product/service etc you are not likely to read and take on their messaging. But you are more likely to respond to visuals :-) So you can have the best copy in the world but if you can't get your customers to read it, you are wasting money. An interesting identity can solve this.
A brand is a gut feeling and people hold their own emotions, connections, attitudes towards it. I agree with Chris that actions form those they do. But it's good to have something that those customers can identify with visually.
What is the point in going through all the effort in forming them and getting these customers to be loyal and like your brand without being able to provide something visually they can look and understand immediately. If Identity is not important why does every brand have a logo. I know the reply would be what gives value to that logo but you need a logo to give value to, its important to have one.
Chris might not like the apple logo but it fits in with their design language perfectly being simple and clean. Everyone who appreciates aesthetics can't argue that apple paved the way with not just functionality but good looking products. A complicated logo would upset this. One of the reasons I won't buy a razer laptop is how childish the logo looks imo. They should rebrand it. I also like how Apple machines don't have stickers for GPU and CPU.
Then you ask yourself the question of defining an identity, do you keep it to just key elements, logo, type etc or do you include photography guides, visual prompts, mood boards possibly for the general feeling and aesthetic of the brand. I personally think a brand identity is way more than the logo and type. Patters, motifs, visual elements, even a brand mascot might be drawn up for communication materials. usage guides, Layouts for different media. Identity in itself can be huge. The larger the brand the more thorough they will be in order to try and stay aligned and consistent.
But there are plenty of other things which contribute to branding, Identity I think is a large part but other things like a good strategy, positioning, mission, value proposition and then brand language, tone of voice etc.
The larger the business the larger the risk and more complex the brand is. Which is why they are paying millions sometimes for rebrands or even logos. Whoever did the BP one got a very nice payday.
You should still call it a branding workshop and maybe focus on identity while making your clients aware of other things like strategy and language. You could even upsell future courses to them ;-)
I think something else is we as professionals might care about semantics branding vs identity design. But if you ask someone who doesn't care what is branding 9/10 they will most likely say logo if I had to bet some money on it ;-). I agree with Chris that identity is just one pillar among many in a brand but when you are selling it to someone who doesn't care about semantics it's possibly worth considering what would they understand identity design or branding? I don't know the answer just looking at it from another point of view.
Overall Branding is just key which is why people pay the big bucks, you need to invest well in all areas. They each give value to one another. You need Identity just as much as tone of voice, positioning and the other good stuff :-)
identity design workshop for branding.
But how can we begin to do identity design without establishing what the brand is going to be first? I think of identity design as the elements that support the overall brand. Without the brand, we just have loose elements without the glue.
I would definitely change the name. Branding is strategy, it is not logo design.
I have always think "brand" is how that business "feel" to you, not how it looks to you, the "look" is just used to tie that feeling/experience back to you. Really agree on this video 😀
It's both, intertwined.
@@ThisDesignLife it always and not as a rule.
to me, Brand Identity Design is the process of creating a multi-faceted visual recognition system that's cohesive across all it's channels. Agree with Chris here that many designers take more credit for "Branding" than they've earned, but I think the idea of avoiding the term altogether feels kind of forced. It's about the awareness that visual recognition and association are just a piece of the puzzle
Branding is not identity work, though they are often done in tandem.
seems to me that Chris defines his brand identity at the end: it’s the way we speak, the way we interact with customers, the colors and typography we use, the way we shoot, the way we lays things out…. That sounds like an identity system to me. The brand is the symbol that is recognized as representing all those practices, experiences, images and values. I do believe that Supreme, Nike, Apple have clear missions that are represented consistently in their brand identity systems. The truth is that few design firms are empowered to develop and implement such holistic identity systems. The reason is that the company must own the process, instilling integrity into its daily practices and representations to ensure clear communication for its reason for being to those it serves.
Brand Design is the foundation. The platform that the company walks along and builds upon. You are designing the brand infrastructure.
Granted like Chris said; thats not just creating assests, stationery, promotion, etc. Its creating the the ground level of language and product.
Love the way you encouraged everyone to think and argue their point of view. I was someone who referred to logo design as branding, but as I learned/understood more, they are 2 totally different things. Great takeaways from this session. I understand this was for a private class, but would love to see what happens after if you do decide to post.
You got it!
Clarity is key. This was the perfect explanation of what branding really is. In my early designer days I used to get wrapped up in the identity part, but you do eventually realize that a brand truly is perception + experience and you don't get that just from a logo, font, or color palette. I focus 100% on personal branding right now and the identity part is in fact a very small piece of the story (especially in the context of a personal brand). Chris (and the Futr team), ya'll are the goat bro. Been following you since you and Jose first posted here. Hope to hang out with you one day!
I had misconception about branding and identity, and im learning thoroughly about the things and processes about brand identity design. So much educational content here i just went back in time of your project of Hamilton family brewery and united Airlines just opened my eyes.. Keep doing what u guys r doin many thanks..
I initially agreed, but after much thought I now 100% disagree with this. Here's why!
Originally "Branding" started with "livestock branding" it was a mark that prevented theft, but it also became double use for identifying ownership. so right there, in the beginning, "Branding" and "Identity" was side by side. There was no UX to create; no marketing. All that existed was the mark/symbol and it was called a brand. With the other sub types of branding it was the same thing. Ironmongers, carpenters and woodworkers all participated in marking their work and THAT was a brand.
As technology grew and the use case for branding expanded, what was requires for a brand expanded too. That is where all those things you listed became a part of the "Branding" profession. But it does not mean it must always include those things to be considered as such.
So, it is weird to me that we now want to divorce the word "Brand" from its original definition because there is now a larger subset of things we can do under the title of "Branding" as far as I'm concerned, if you only create a logo you still designed a brand and thus branding. If you do much more than that it is still branding. to argue otherwise, feels like an elitist attempt to exclude the term Branding from those who do smaller scale work.
Branding marketing agencies make a lot more money than the branding designers, and I think it would be a great sin that because they feel empowered by their larger paychecks that they can assume the word branding for themselves. I know he is not actively doing that on purpose, but that is the result. Branding has expanded beyond the logo, but it does not mean that the logo itself is not branding.
This is why, people in the comments now don't know what to call what they do. that is because what they do, be it logo design, branded environments, Branding guides, IS branding.
Brand marketing augments Branding and Branding includes Branding Identity design, in fact that is where it starts!
thank you for this chris. I've been confuse after starting to enter the branding world and so many terms comes out brand identity brand visual brand strategy brand positioning etc.. i started as logo designer, posters and banners and found out about the importance of branding. and really think that I want to do it. after seeing this video you've really open my mind to learn more. branding is not as simple as I think it is. I won't say I understood everything in this video 100%. but I do understand that I need to keep on learning. I really hope you post more of this kind of interactions with people where you challenge them to think like this. it's really helpful.
Identity Design is and always will be part of the branding process, by itself it cannot create a "brand experience", or "Branding". Not sure why people still get this wrong
Because too many designers see everything through their own lens unfortunately
I strongly disagree. Identity design is not required for brand strategy. It is often helpful, but not mandatory.
@@MarvinForte she didn’t say strategy
@@ThisDesignLifeyep, I am aware she didn't use the word strategy, I used it to make my point. Branding is about strategy, it is not design. Branding informs design.
@@MarvinForte Brand strategy is the strategy. Brand "building" is the implementation, including design, copy, etc etc etc.
LOVE this. Sometimes designers (me included) forget the initial reason to why we do what we do and go a mental gymnastics philosophy dump trying to answer the simplest of questions. We need to remember to ground ourselves.
Chris, thank you for being a beacon of common sense in what at times feels like a universe full of people who have been conned into seeing "branding" as the emperor's new clothes. A logo isn't "a brand" and never has been. It's simply a mark, or a flag, or a gang colour to rally around.
Thank you 🙏
I think the problem is that what Chris describe as what doesn't matter is visual identity design and not necessarily brand design as whole. If there's anything I've learnt, brand design extends beyond just visuals.
That's one of the two major "lies" people tell themselves and clients. The other is "I create design systems", when in many cases it's just a UI kit and some Figma Libraries.
Just like branding doesn't exist without strategy, messaging and structure, a design system doesn't exist without documentation and rules and processes that govern said system.
I put "lies" in inverted commas, because I don't think it's rooted in an intent to deceive anyone. I think it's rooted in a fundemental misunderstanding of the scope of work related to both of those things. And it's only enforced by online tutorials, courses and articles, where "brand identity" materials directed at designers basically only encompass visual design. Just like "creating design systems" is predominantly only Figma setup and creating componen sets.
👨🏫Grammar Police, Special Forces here. Those inverted commas are called: QUOTATION MARKS. Carry on, citizen.👨🏫 😊
@@ednmic Thank you, officer. I shall improve in the future :)
🙌 This was a conversation that needed to be had.
I completely adore Mac as a creative tool for most of the same reasons as Chris. My best way to summarize personally, is that the creative confidence and synergy on a Mac are not interrupted or inhibited by the technical complexity of the the hardware or software. PC is always an uphill battle trying to simply create on. Always. No matter what program.
Man! This is pure gold. I’ve been thinking about this. How even the so called experts in that room can’t distinguish the two? Branding is way more than identity.
we hope to change the dialogue around this.
Thanks. ❤ This video is meant for me as I am updating my LinkedIn for my new identity as an Independent Visual Identity Consultant. It’s as much a clarity for myself as it is for my target audience.
Wonderful!
Brand identity matters more for internal than external but brand identity also matters because it is the seed from which all things grow ie aesthetics
I love it when kids call people mine and Chris’s age apple fan boys. We were using Macs when they were boring beige plastic boxes in the corner of the room. They just so happened to be the only thing on the market which solved our problems back then 😂
I'm definitely one of those fanboys, but I think people forget that in the context of that age, (at least as I remember it) the Mac was anything but boring. In the era of "Big Brother" IBM, the computer was a cold, calculating oddity reserved for nerds and hobbyists. The Mac changed all that by making it something that could be approachable, friendly-even - something that could foster creativity and expression. Apple's brand has evolved since, but it always stood for thinking that went against the status quo. That's actually an excellent example of branding right there!
Considering that most Apple computers are not nearly as capable of handling multiple browser/tabs, multiple Adobe apps and Zoom without experiencing a slowdown in computing power - it’s crazy to me that creatives are still buying (subpar….yeah! I said it.) machines that can longer keep up with the needs of a busy creative business owner. My day to day life requires a PC gaming level machine just do the tasks above. I’m your age and the creatives still sweating Apple are crazy. IMHO
@@natasha.elaine wait, what? I have a MacBook Pro M1. I almost never remember to close browser tabs, I have like five adobe apps going at once, plus RUclips, and god knows what else. This machine is running like a snappy little champ. It’s the fastest and most powerful machine I’ve ever worked with. I’m working with enormous files in photoshop that are being sized for print jobs of over 40 inches at 300dpi, with several of them open at once. Not a single hiccup while doing this all day. Hell, the fans don’t ever even come on. When I used windows machines years ago, it was one issue after another, everything took forever, it crashed constantly, and I would have to replace them every year because they would just crap right out on me. The Mac is 100% the right tool for the job for me. Always.
@@shannonpalmeryes they’re brilliant when you first get them, they work like a dream for the first few years & then the problems come thick & fast. The longevity doesn’t match up with the price tag. That’s a major con for Apple.
Whilst there are some people who don’t care about the price, they will update their products regularly. For those of us with more important things to spend our money on, Apple products are not up to par in terms of ability/longevity & price. Many of us don’t care to always buy the latest product. We just want a tool for our businesses that will run smoothly, a tool that we can get our moneys worth from & not be a continuous drain on our income (& sanity). They are over priced, after a few years they underperform & the ability to upgrade parts is only a partial option unless, you guessed it, you shell out more money having Apple do it.
Gaming PC’s out perform Apple devices with cost, longevity, performance & it is also very easy to update any part whenever you need to.
Once upon a time if you were a designer Apple were the only product that design software would work on. Nowadays that isn’t the case. For that reason those of us who are sick of Apple have switched to products that can be custom made to a seriously high spec, have longevity & parts can be easily upgraded when necessary… all for a fraction of the price.
Even better when you have a son who builds them from scratch (which I do) lol
@@natasha.elaineI couldn’t agree more! After 25 years of using Apple products… I’m sick of them. Sick of the cost, sick of the lack of longevity, sick of the constant updating, sick of how quickly they underperform!
I’m so over Apple, haha
I get what you meant as the video progressed. Very stimulating presentation. Wished my design professors talked about this in my design classes.
Glad it was helpful!
Mostly this is not part of design classes or art school, it's more part of business school. As a marketing major myself, we focus on whole strategy and positioning side of things, the psychology and research not just a pretty logo which (most of the times) design school teach the students.
I like the speed and cut of this video edit!!! It feels a little bit even more better than before!!
When brand/luxury works, even the art of spending itself becomes part of the experience.
Hence why those buying luxury don't buy online. They go in to the store.
But what is an identity if not the definition of who or what something is? The branding is there to reinforce that. But the identity sets that tone. It can give you a base to create the brand off of. Personally I don't see the identity as just the design elements of a logo, color choices, etc, but also the language and the conversation that gets there. Why this color? Why that design element? What makes that important to the business? All information that can be used to shape the brand beyond the direct identity elements.
When a company changes their identity we know they are changing more than just their logo, they are usually changing how they do things. That logo sets the stage for the rest. If an identity had no weight then changing it wouldn't matter? Yet companies, although not always for the best reasons since they are still made of people, change their identity and the branding follows.
Another way to look at it. The identity of a company is a "who" and the brand is the "how". It makes me think of cows and how they were branded so they could be identified. Well the branding was the act of putting the logo/business name on the cow. But you need the identity to put on the brand to put on the cow. Otherwise, how will that cow be told apart from any other farmers unidentified cows? Sure how you act as a farmer, the way you treat your cows, how your cows look, all matter to your brand. Except what about when it's just your cow and the customers. People won't always be around your brand, but if they see your identity they will be reminded of your brand and they will know it's yours.
Even with laptops, like Dell and Apple make laptops that look similar these days. But the dell and the apple logo are what set them apart at first glance. You'd see the Dell logo and remember they suck and the Apple logo would remind that Apple laptops don't.
Woah! this is an amazing conversation...exactly how the everyday customer thinks and if you're not knowledgeable enough you'll loose. Thanks @Chrisdo for making this so clear👏👏👏
Brilliant conversation. Brings the core principle into focus in place of exciting language. Brand-identity sounds like the same thing said twice.
Chris please do more about design miss conception like this, I'm sure it will give a lot of value to us
Okay
Ooof, I was both humbled and motivated at the same time by this.
Time to hit the lab again!
Chris….Thank you…! The only thing that matters is the customer experience….Branding is a great word and news flash we love Apple because they make great products and deliver consistent user experiences and that’s a decades old company who didn’t always get it right….how your customer feels about you…those words and thoughts…creates loyalty to your company…or not if you suck at it. No amount of brand identity can save a sorry company who doesn’t realize this. It starts internally…and then outward.
"Brand identity" and making marks may go well together, but they can be mutually exclusive. I'd venture to guess, that (with the exception of a small few companies) most people make their purchasing decisions on perceived value, usefulness or aesteics. Your logo may or may not be part of that, depending on what industry you're in. So I agree. I don't want my graphic designer to be someone who "does branding". I want them to be the best darn graphic designer they can be.
Before I even finished the video I understood that the person asking Chris all the rapid fire questions along with the other designers, were speaking from a place of "what a LOGO could be" instead of speaking from what a "LOGO is". I am a logo designer and even though I agreed with Chris it killed me inside when he said that "brand identity is just one very small part." Welllll i better start taking on more skills.
Experience is multi-faceted. Especially with a company like Apple.
For example, as a designer you may love the experience of using an Apple product, but repair technicians hate them because of their anti-third party repair practices, which is actively anti-consumer (that's not even getting into planned obsolescence).
Although I hardly use Apple unless it’s provided, proprietary parts/repair/etc. is in multiple industries. Cars (BMW, Merceds, Ferrari), industrial equipment (Yale, CAT, Heli). Making third party repair difficult and planned obsolescence is across all mediums now. It’s how they get you to buy the latest model, iteration, upgrade. It’s sadly not just Apple anymore it’s even Dell, Razer, the list goes on.
@@thetydalwave_ I believe the real goal of this greedy practice is to remove self-sufficiency (and perhaps even true ownership) and essentially make every product a form of subscription.
Not only do they not want those who don't have their approval to repair their products, they definitely don't want the end user to be able to fix it themselves. No, everything must be prescribed by daddy corporation and sold at a premium. It disgusts me.
@@bramdoe3303 well explained!
Chris spitting facts. Love the new sound design and outro graphics of the futur! 😮
You are always inspiring me Chris as a person. Thank you
So, in the brand strategy courses through the Futur we get handy little frameworks like the brand pyramid. At the bottom of it are the invisible traits of the brand. The brand then it expresses itself towards the top of the pyramid, with a tone of voice and a look’n’feel.
Identity in a normal context, what does it mean? Recognition, right. Much like a person has an essence, but you can tell it’s them via their voice and look.
That’s an identity right?
When we describe a brand identity system, doesn’t that pertain to how we will express the brand (invisible traits and experience of something) through its look and feel systematically across applications.
Like we do in a Brand Identity Systems guide, or brand guidelines. I’m quite sure I was illuminated to this by The Future lol - so confused.
If we break down the language, “brand” “identity” “system”, this explanation makes a lot of coherent sense and is often what clients are trying to say…
“ we need our branding to look the same consistently everywhere”.
Ah. I gotchu. Brand identity system. Or brand guide.
I think it’s clear, because most people use the word “brand” wrong, when they think it’s a logo. Brand is not the logo. The logo is part of the recognisable identity of the brand feeling.
Right? Or wrong? 🙃
Omg as a marketing student who's in senior year, we study more strategy and psychology side and I've seen graphic design students saying that we are doing branding and what they actually do? Designing a pretty logo on illustrator lol.
It’s interesting, it’s BECAUSE these brands have this consistent physical brand aesthetic so that it becomes subconscious people don’t notice it and so they can ENJOY the brand. But if the aesthetic was off, people won’t even begin to enjoy it!
This is really clearly explained Chris 🙂
A logo is not branding. Corporate identity is not branding. They are tools.
So for the first time i kinda don't agree with Chris and the other guys in the audience. I feel like they were both talking about opposite stuff. Brand Identity has nothing to do with confidence, marketing, sales, etc... Brand Identity is more or less how a company or a business is graphically perceived. For example, Xiaomi did a brand identity change while producing the same products. That Identity change alone gave them an increase in sales of over 60% as compared to the previous years. When asked, Hara said "The new logo is not a simple redesign of the shape but an encapsulation of Xiaomi's inner spirit. We all bought into that. While Xiaomi global market share rose to 16%. That to me, is brand identity.
That is an identity built off of a strategy. (Positioning, personality etc…)
It wasn’t just designed out of thin air without any strategy behind it.
That is what Chris is talking about. Building identities without a strategic branding foundation is a pointless, worthless exercise.
No way did an identity change alone increase sales by 60%. Do you have the data?
I think for the first time I'm understanding this whole thing. Brand Identity is good, but it's not worth all the glory we wrap around it. Brand identity will be glorious if the company is already perceived to be glorious.
It sounds like you haven't considered that there is more to a company's brand than their visual portrayal. Everything that a company is that can be perceived by clients or competitors is a company's brand. A company's customer service is part of their brand. Their product is part of their brand. Their target demographic is part of their brand, and thus their marketing too. Think of UI vs UX design. One deals with the visual perception, and the other, the entire experience of the customers interaction with the company
You kind of contradict yourself, first you say that brand identity is how a company is graphically perceived but then you talk about the inner of the company and then you say that that! Is brand identity for you. How about just saying that both together is brand identity, however identity is just Identity design, the visual presentation of the company, the moment you add branding now it's inner feelings together with visual impact of the company plus how the target customer sees and feel about the brand.
How i wish guys in kenyan Ad agencies would listen to this. We get so lost in brand identity politics at the expense of doing great work.
Always love discussions like this Chris.
Thank you Chris for this honest conversation
Lmao!!! Chris is literally tearing down every argument... omg! I was responding to some of the questions and got some, but I mostly got it wrong, like I was there.
Blackberry (Research in Motion at the time) used to be recognized as a luxury brand. After the iPhone that status started slowly dwindling.
If designers make brands, are they also to blame if the brand loses its status 🤔
if you can take credit, you should take the blame.
I think Chris conflates the meaning of "Brand" to encompass "Product". But etymologically, Branding has nothing to do with the product - It's just what we have made it in our pop cuilture. Branding is simply the visually indentifying mark - in case of hard products that can encompass the visual aesthetics of the product itself, but in case of software, the UI and logo IS the entirety of the branding. For software branding, you can call yourself the father or god of brand identity or whatever without even touching UX - let alone the code.
The people in the audience didn't wisen up to it - they just used hardware examples. I'd love to see Chris tackle the software question.
Chris is extra aggressive in this session lol
I don’t think he was being aggressive.. I think he was just being himself and was tired of the dumb questions.. it’s more like the people asking him questions were low key hating on him and probably can’t afford the stuff that they brought up…such as (Luis Vuitton, and Apple)
There was a point in the middle where I had to stop watching because Chris was disregarding the comments/or narrative of the individuals while at the same time telling them that they were the ones not recognizing his argument. I think a more constructive strategy in a discussion of this nature would be to listen with the intention of understanding out the speaker's point of view instead of responding "No, i think you're just making it up"
A brand designer assumes that a business has a problem of being identified outside while a graphic designer understands a business problem and solves it.
One question.... If you like the flower pattern on a bag or design of a sneaker...would you still love and buy it for that price if you have similar pattern on a local brand (without violating any copyrights)?
We are branding making everything you just explained. Happy to be named our job correctly lol
I've never liked mission statements. It's honestly like a "guarantee" sticker. All mission statements are like the best of best promises, that don't really mean anything. I get that it's part of the corporate machine, but I could do without. On the other hand, I guess I do actually like mission statements, but ONLY the ones that define a clear and precise vision of quality, mood, and aesthetic (which relates directly to brand)
Brand identity is “belief” and belief is the seed from which all things grow 🌱
Branding masterclass... I'm killing myself to explain all this stuff in French speaking areas, but I get the same objections. It seems like all this is not really clear in people's minds, even the "profesionals"! Thank you very much, sir!
Merci
Although, the title did confuse me a bit, with your actual position in the dialogue being the antigonist. I have to say that the dialogue was dope. It sounded like they were two Socrates talking each other in way. Great
Thank you
Oh no, now a lot of designers on Upwork and Fiverr have to remove their title Brand Identity designer since they realized they only post mockups of logos and stationery.
What a shock!
Dude! Love how that guy kept trying to trap Chris into contradicting himself about brand identity. Nope! Shut down! Case closed!
It is true. Your brand identity doesn’t matter unless the customer care about it. Who cares what your logo conveys (what you as the brand think) unless the customer makes your brand apart of their life.
Glad to see this. It's actually what I believe in my core, but all the mumbo-jumbo about brand, and marketing, and mission/vision all these jargons seminar circuit gurus and pop media are spouting is making me doubt my instinctive reactions! Either that or I'm just all mixed up with jargon overload without ingesting the substance! 😆 Maybe I missing something in what the gurus are saying, but I just drunk the Kool Aid and ended up being more confused!
reminds me of that saying where somebody compared logo to a cup, the cup holds no value if what it contains has no value, the products/content of the cup gives it the value,
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P.S. i don't remember who said this or where,
Apple may have a logo you dont like but every aspect of the brand including its packaging its part of its visual identity. It is how it looks and without that you wont have the trust in the price point. The visual along side the experience is what makes it powerful. The time and care inculding the sleek UI is part of that visual identity system.
That was exhilirating. You could feel all of the emotions in realtime. Well played sir.. well played.
Thank you
Could you make a video separating other terms in the design industry that are incorrectly used interchangeably? You have a rare way of creating clarity in confusion
do you have any suggestions?
@@thefutur I am very early in my design career so I can't come up with any two words off the top of my head, but I have seen the word strategy used a lot and I've seen it mean many things. I don't know if there is another word it is used interchangeably with, but I know that word causes confusion
Marketing/Advertising
Marketing/Exposure
Those are a couple i hear all the time used interchangeably that I would like parsed from your perspective if possible.
Finally understood world doesn't need any type of identity designer or products..only self sustainable homestead is the final product
You have taught audience 😅
Gold video as always 🏅
Your brand is what others say about you, not what you say to others.
I can't disagree with you, but I can't help but feel that there is more that need to be said. What action am I supposed to take on this knowledge that my services and my craft is not that important or is the least important part of selling a product.
@thefutur I appreciate this challenging and clarification session. I would love and appreciate if you could point to one of your courses or another video that goes deeper into what branding actually is (based off this video's argument ideally) I'm familiar with Neumeier and Geyrhalter's content. Would love a "close-to" all-in-one place that I could learn the actual hands on "WORK" and frameworks of building a brand and the education of where "identity design" is involved along with the other practical steps to designing *Brands* and not just identity. (i.e. your mentions earlier of messaging, products, copywriting, services, etc.) and what many of us "identity designers" can both *do* and *learn* in order to transition to the actual work of designing/building brands & strategy. I understand this is probably a multi-faceted topic but this video has got me a bit thinking I've got far more work & training to do. Any guidance would be appreciated. Basically, after watching this video, I'm asking the question of, *Now what*. We've identified the missing link, now how do we acquire it?
Chris making us think 👍
But seems like he didn't finish his argument. Brand identity doesn't matter - because brand and identity are different? Was that the conclusion?
it is funny how wording have such drastic impact on perception
all transformation is linguistic. without words, we don't have clear memories.
@@thefutur true. Alchemy of words
same as how people freaking out when instagram change their logo. everybody already know instagram. changing their logo doesnt effect the way people use the app. people just like whining on small things that doesnt matter to them.
I work in massage and see the value in this it is amazing to learn how to sell and manage clients
Fantastic!
Yes, brand identity is only a part of branding. But it's also important if the brand can afford it. Saying that it's not is a reach. Why is the futur brand not using bright pink as its brand color in its marketing materials and sticking to its color? Because it's important for recognition as well.
Stock videos make me not want to watch this video, although I love The Futur Content ❤
Noted. Thank you for the feedback
Wow that was awesome and real! Loved it!
I think one big problem in the discussion is that actually chris is mixing definitions. He is talking a lot about brand identity and equates it with brand identity design, which is not the same. It even states in the thumbnail and in the discription of the video "between identity design and branding", but in the discussion he is talking about brand identity. This is comes out especially at 8:00 where chris actually lists parts of his brand identity system and the participant says "sounds like a brand identity system to me" which it is and chris says its not its only marks and i think he referes again to the brand identity design.
Happy to hear what you think about this.
I’ll have to rewatch.
@@thefutur Sounded a little harsh there, sorry about that.
What is the name of the condensed font sir?
8:02 Exactly! You just proved Chris, wrong but he won’t dare admit it in front of all those people 😂 just tries to wiggle his way out of it.
Brand identity definitely exists and impacts. This is a stupid argument 🤦🏽♂️
He's saying that the identity is just a mark, not the brand. So the word "brand identity" doesn't really make sense. It's a paradox or juxtaposition. Brand is experienced, the service, messaging, products and etc. You don't experience a logo. So theFutur logo is not a brand identity. It's just a logo, but when you attach Chris' way of speaking, the products and etc then it becomes a brand
@@EthanRom the comment I made is not about a logo and doesn’t mention a logo at all.
@@EthanRom the point is 7:52
Describing what distinguishes your brand, but then saying it’s not brand identity is an extremely pointless and stupid argument.
Does zero good for anybody, just makes Chris feel right.
Does that mean Chick Fil-A saying "My pleasure" is part of the brand? Its rooted deep into the culture and drilled into every employee so that not a single customer interacts with anyone from Chick Fil-A and does not hear that sentence.
Theres no logo, no marketing, no design or lettering, just a sound, but it makes the brand, along with its reputation for service.
So my understanding of brand is: Its as if I walked in and spoke face to face with Mr Chick Fil-A himself, shook his hand, and he personally took my order, cooked and delivered my food to me. Not just an employee or manager, but the embodiment of the business became flesh and served me.
I dont know what his mission is , i dont know the goals, but even if he changed his clothes (logo) or changed his hair (lettering), or was standing on stage with a mike (marketing), i would recognise him and desire what he can do for me, the way only he does it.
That’s it
I think Chris was being argumentative for being argumentative sake. And I could see how his audience were falling for it.
What are you identifying? The symbol, color, type and imagery, voice, tone, target audience, etc...? Aren't those in place to represent a BRAND and everything they stand for.
We value different things in products and services. Chris buys Apple because it's reliable; others buy it because they want the "designer look". Chris buys LV because of the cool pattern; others buy it to show off. Point is - successful as brands may be, they don't dictate how customers feel about them. In fact, as Chris reveals, it doesn't matter! So stop projecting YOUR needs onto your customers. This is my takeaway.
That’s right.
This is well appreciated
somewhat I'm more clear about it, but also more confused about it haha can anyone quickly give me an clear summary? branding identity is what now? it doesn't exist? so what does a brander do? how would you seperate all these things in different products? like branding, identity design, and so on?
Awesome video. Offended at first, like how dare you! Then after watching the whole video, yikes what are you doing Ashley lol. I’ll be working my way up to brand identity!
Haha. Thanks for sticking through it and keeping an open mind.
This has always been a frustrating conversation for me, because so many designers equate logo design with branding. They are not the same thing and the word branding should not be associated with logo design. A brand is not a logo, unless it's on a cow.
Chris us 110% Percent correct.. somebody cares about your identity!! When it comes to product and service!! if I like a vegan restaurant why the hell would I care about their identity?!!!😳
Chris went wild😂.
I now understand what he is saying. I think marketing is the main thing that makes brands actually standout rather than brand identity.
Although I'm a brand identity designer😥
I see marketing as the promise and branding as the proof
isn't the product is the proof?
Apple's mission statement (born with a mouse and keyboard in hand here, sorry ma!): Think Different. This was an opposing tagline to IBM's "Think". But the identity is where brand and company work together to make sure branding is integrated semlessly into products not just in visual form but in mental form. It comprises a lot less of actual graphic design and marketing trade. Instead, it relies heavily on marketing statistics, studies, and various branches of psychiatry to tap into primal senses and encourage brand adoption. For example, McDonald's colors were either chosen or kept (I can't remember which) because studies showed the colors red and yellow tend to remind the viewer of food and condiments thus reminding the viewer of potential hunger. Statistics had shown that food brands with those colors also tend to have higher product adoption.
That’s a tagline not a mission statement.
A Chris Do is always right, even when he's wrong, he's right.
Lol oh no I just added “I create your brand identity” to my LinkedIn 😅 back to the drawing board hahah
Goldmine video. Thanks guys