My "friend" acted transphobic towards me just bc when she thought she was trans and socially transitioned she after some time realised she isn't trans :(. She thinks all trans ppl are just pretending
@@garak_on_b5679 people like that make me wonder if I’m truly aroace or not. I am aesthetically attracted to women, men, and people under the nonbinary umbrella but I don’t feel a sexual and/or romantic attraction towards them. I’ve heard disgusting acephobes such as Brett Cooper’s flying monkeys say that people on the aro/ace spectrum are losers and virgins with no personality who can’t get a partner. I’ve never had a crush on anyone before. I think I might be broken.
@@SodaCider641 hey, you are not broken. I don't think they are right to judging a tag with their personal expirence, simply because they could make mistakes on their identification path doesn't mean ace/trans or whatever they thought they were doesn't exist. also self exploration could be a long path, these tags are tools to help you identify and know yourself, not another chains or cages to limit yourself. you can try ace or any tag and see if it fits, or stay no tag at all and keep exploring, it's all fine, as long as you are comfortable with your state. also, if finding a partner can be a standard to judge a person is winner or loser, then roaches shall be the biggest winner in the world, or rabbits. you don't need a partner to be a winner, you are perfect as you are.
@@SodaCider641 There are many ways to be human. People who treat sex and relationships as status symbols are toxic individuals whose opinions should not define anybody else's lives. There are plenty of people who never have sex, never get married, never have kids, etc. and who still live very fulfilling lives. Many people can't comprehend that because it isn't "normal". Because some people refuse to accept other people's choices, they limit themselves to a narrower worldview and don't see all that the world can be. I'm asexual, demiromantic, and agender. I have never experienced a sexual attraction to anyone. I can experience romantic attraction to women, but it is incredibly rare. I am single and childless and I am fine with that. There have been several people, sometimes people in positions of authority in my life, who have attempted to "fix" me. It goes badly every time and they blame me for it going badly every time. No matter how much they make me out to be the problem simply for being different, they're the ones who are in the wrong. Nobody but you gets to decide your identity.
Sadly depends where you are, I think. I had luck with an informed consent clinic but even then it was a months-long wait, got delayed again, and then they obviously don't prescribe on the first appointment. But I've been on testosterone for almost 2 years now, and I hope you can get what you need soon!!
There is a solution, although it doesn't work that easily for trans men. You can just order the medication. It's not a controlled substance. And just check up with an endocrinologist from time to time
@@Zoey_the_RatIt's nice that you actually acknowledged that testosterone is far harder to get than estrogen, as it is a controlled substance. It would help if the trans "community" cared about anyone who doesn't want to be feminine or identify with womanhood.
That’s really sad. It breaks my heart than people may be detransitioning because they are not accepted as their trans self. That’s like gay people marrying someone of the opposite sex because they wouldn’t be accepted as gay. If only everyone wasn’t busy demonising harmless trans people, proper conversations could be had about trans safety and healthcare.
I mean it's also possible that these people just went down a bad rabbit hole and went too far identifying as something when they actually weren't. Believe it or not, most people aren't trans, people get confused but people don't need to stuff themselves full of artificial hormones to prove a point. Rock what you've got.
I am sick of centrain detransitioners acting as it it wasn't their choise to transition and it's something that was done to them. And they are nothing than passive victims. Everything I had done in my transition was fought for and it is really hard to transition in my country.
My nephew started expressing that he was a girl when he was five or six. He started hormone blockers at 13 and hormones when he was 15. He lived as a woman for eight years. He was love bombed by some evangelical Christians and ended up detransitioning because they got him to believe that he would go to hell if he lived his authentic self. Now he attends an evangelical college. He told me he’s still a woman and is still attracted to men, but he’s determined to live a celibate life because he’s afraid that’s the only way his god will accept him. I’m no longer a Christian and have only come I to my queerness in my early fifties. I listen and tell him I’m there for him however he needs me, but inside, I ache for him that he feels that the only way he’s acceptable is to deny who he is.
I’m sorry that happened to your nephew. He deserves to live as his true authentic self and be loved by genuine people with good hearts. Hopefully, things will get better. 🫂 ❤️🩹
I'd like to add another perspective you may not have heard yet. I'm Christian and used to believe I was trans (FtNB). Fair warning, I do not agree with your perspective, though I do respect it and I very much respect your love for your nephew. Anyway-I think your nephew's church is ignoring a very real problem. Likely because they're too afraid to approach it, and/or are completely uninformed. If I was his church and especially pastor/s, I'd have many questions. Honestly, I don't think anyone is asking nearly enough questions at this point in history. There's too much telling others how it is (I.e. "I'm a girl and I like boys, I need treatments and procedures to become female." or "no, you're a boy and God made you a boy, you must live like a boy.") and not enough asking others how they think it is and why (I.e. "why would God want me to live in a way that doesn't feel right?" or "okay, what makes you think you're a girl? What kind of treatments do you want, and how do you think they'll help you?"). Also, let me ask you: what is wrong with being celibate and living out a role he may not believe fits him? Even if it comes from fear, would you be any more or less concerned if he instead went vegan for his faith? Or dressed in a certain way he may not have otherwise chosen?
Christian here as well, and just to add to the other person's already excellent comment, I want to remind your son that he is following a God of love who has reached out to him. Something I think we forget about the gospel is that we are all sinful by nature, but God reaches us out of love so that we may reach back out to Him, with our sins and all. I am moved by your son's God-facing turn, but I want to provide encouragement to him by saying that even as a Christian, we will inherently never do a single good thing, because we are always inclined to do evil. However, if we simply have faith that God will deliver us from sin, rely on His power and ask Him to change us and our ways, He will always meet us with our needs. Basically, if we move an inch in faith, He moves us the extra mile. But remember that it's God Himself that changes us, not we mere humans on our own terms. Your son knows what is sinful and wishes to turn away but is afraid that he is unacceptable. But I want to say that all sin is repulsive to Him, as small as a little white lie all the way to murder, and yet not a single one of those sins is unforgivable in God's sight. Truly I have committed each of the most egregious sins in my past but I am assured of my salvation because I have decided to turn from it and tell Jesus to take them from me, so instead of trying to earn my way to Heaven and God's acceptable standard (which I will never live up to), I simply allow Christ to shoulder my burdens and have faith that He will deliver me from future sin. And that is how we live as Christians. My hope is that your son may ask God in earnest prayer to to help him take his burdens from him, so that he will not walk alone in fear, but in gratitude. I understand the heavy feeling of being unacceptable to the Lord but wanting to do what you can to be. Which is why I think all he need do is ask in authenticity for the help he needs. And I know he will find that God will answer that prayer. God bless, and I will be praying for your family!
@@driftofair9691 Why is treating this 1 mental condition wrong while treating everything else is acceptable? If you got your way it would destroy people's lives. Do you have any idea how much gender dysphoria HURTS every single hour of every single day? Can you imagine being tormented a dozen times a day for minutes at a time? Did you know it gets worse with time? A dozen becomes HUNDREDS. Then terror and pain unlike anything you've experienced compresses your entire being into a tiny tiny ball. But not all of you fits and some part of you is torn away to die. All you can do is weep and endure. When it stops you discover you've changed. Some part of your personality no longer exists.
Heck that applies to most surgeries. Even heart surgeries have a much higher regret rate which is surprising considering hearts y'know.....keep you alive. I must say it does make sense that breast reduction is one of the lowest regretted surgeries..... must be a real load off the chest. 😏
@@neeliwilson9771 I do find it strange that it’s considered pretty much ok and accepted when women get implants to make flat chests or breasts bigger yet the outrage when a transman flattens breasts. The same with women that get tummy tucks or bum implants there is no outrage in comparison to gender surgery.
Also, the source on the '8% of people de transition' is over-inflated because the quote is incomplete To quote the website translucent: "In the US, a survey of nearly 28,000 people found that 8% of respondents reported some kind of detransition. Of this 8%, 62% per cent only did so temporarily due to societal, financial, or family pressures. This study would suggest that the overall detransition rate was slightly over 3%" GenderGP itself (your source) clarifies this 62% temporary rate as well
You made a really good point about how Cis people don't have to fight to get hormones for care. My mom had me on T because I have XXY, which means my body produces less testosterone than the average AMAB. Even that was considered "normal," but when I was able to talk to a therapist as an adult and step away from it, and realized I'm trans and can make my own decisions about my medication, it was suddenly an issue that I was looking for care that made me feel much better than T ever did.
i watched a ton of detrans content when i was younger because i wanted to be sure i wasnt being influenced by only one side the way people claim we are. the majority of detrans people you find on social media have horrible takes, because they're lifted up by the right so much. ive met a lot of detransitioners who are totally fine
I did the same thing. My goal was to read/hear their stories and see if anything would resonate for me. Nothing really did, so it helped improve my confidence. Thankfully, I found a massive Reddit thread that was actually very helpful and had very little transphobia. Most people were like "I de-transitioned, here's why, and I still think the trans community is valid." I was talking to one of my queer communities early on, and when I mentioned this stuff, I got so much backlash for even mentioning the concept of de-transitioning. "Some of our community are in a fragile state of mind." Like okay, but if they can't handle the very positive conversation around it, then maybe some of them should consider whether they're in the right place.
the way you talked about them here i think is the best way. seeing them as just fellow human beings with tough and diverse experiences in their lives, as people who are just as worthy of acceptance and care as we all are. we're in this world together and i hope we can improve each other's lives together.
I was one of those people who detransitioned for a time due to immense negative social pressures. It took 10 years being closeted after detransition to get to a point in life where transition became viable again. It was one of the most difficult things I've ever been through. If trans people were more broadly accepted, I never would have gone through that.
I've honestly considered going back into the closet multiple times for this reason... I'm 18, pre everything and it just feels hopeless. I live in a relatively accepting place and even then it's painful. I'm glad you've decided to restart transitioning and live for yourself, I can imagine how painful those ten years were 🩶
@@padpamash I was your age when I transitioned the first time. By the time I was 20 I was back in the closet. I think if you have a support system then lean on them heavy and take the leap. All you'll find if you stop now is a whole lot of 'what ifs' and regret. The thing I always say is that it never goes away no matter how much you push it down. Even people who regret their transition in my eyes are always going to be trans, they had to transition back to their agab, that's a whole transition more than most trans people!
Detransitioners are valid, however the fact that they regret their transition does not mean they have the right to strip other people of their rights to medical care
so true. and I think it should go both ways. I've seen some trans people completely invalidate the experience and opinions of people who detransitioned, acting like they don't exist etc. I think that's just wrong.
@@helenalovelock1030 your behavior around here is disgusting. You should stay out of queer spaces if you’re going to be so immature. Detransitioners should be listened to, loved and supported but it’s not okay for them to block healthcare for other trans people. If anything, detransition stories teaches you to be careful while transitioning and not to rush into it without doing research first.
I just read a post on r/nonbinary today made by a FtMtNB person who was on T for 6 years and then wasn't comfortable anymore with the effects, got off T and is NB now with an androgynous look, who said the reason they felt they had to continue T for about 2 years longer than they would've wanted is because of the idea of society only seeing them in a binary system where they are either binary trans or cis, and because they used to have beliefs they got transmeds who just saw them as a broken cis person who needs T and to get to the hormone levels of a cis man as the only solution for feeling better. They are still figuring out their identity, possibly as a non-binary individual, but said they are feeling better. I also saw a MtF youtuber (I don't remember the name) who was on hormones for about 1.5 years, didn't feel okay, then got off hormones while remaining a trans woman, then made a video like 3 years later about it. She's still MtF just with the hormone levels of a cis man now, and with some effects remaining like breast growth and some more feminine features. Some people would count both of these cases as detrans people as use them as an example to talk against trans healthcare, which is just absolutely vile.
So much this. Since my son came out 6 years ago, and I've been learning a lot, and always felt that , if we as society, just did better early education and explored/explained options, then there would be much less regret and need for some surgeries, as trans ppl wouldn't feel pushed to "get all the surgeries": when maybe they are hapy with more middle of the road. To me, that's just common sense. Hateful Detransitioners and gatekeepers do so much harm to the Trans community, and just empowers the Right to make these hateful laws, they push. If ppl really wanted to "Protect the kids from surgeries" and "keep sports fair" then they should be supporting better education and more common use of blockers.
Thank you for this video, I felt you made a lot of good points. However, with regard to the person who transitioned at 13 who is suing Kaiser, I feel like we’re not getting the whole story. In these cases, doctors make absolutely, positively sure before operating on anyone, especially a 13 year old. Consent forms would’ve been signed, lots and lots of consent forms, by the parents, by the child, by everyone. Lots of conversations would’ve been had about what to expect before, during and after surgery, are you absolutely sure you want to do this, etc. I’m guessing whoever’s paying this person’s legal fees (likely an anti-trans organization) are doing this to scare people and spread misconceptions about gender-affirming care, especially for those under 18. That said, the case will probably be thrown out.
Yah I’m literally perusing top surgery from Kaiser (as an adult) and they’ve already given me tons of info and I still need to follow WPATH guidelines. The only difference with Kaiser, is as an adult, I don’t need to be on hormones to get surgery
The person supposedly suing Kaiser probably made up a fake story to grift for money. They’re possibly not actually a detransitioner but just an actor hired by flying monkeys. Perhaps and hopefully, these detransition stories distributed by right wingers will be found to be fake.
I'm a detransitioner in a way. I'm non binary, a fact I've known since I was about 5 or 6, and something I hid from literally everyone until I was in my early 20s. I finally came out about 4 years ago to my mother, who basically acted like I was just trying to get attention and thus I haven't spoken about being trans with anyone in my family since. I would like to get on HRT and potentially have some more minor surgeries done but I live in a sparsely populated red state with quite literally no doctors that do gender affirming care, and I can't afford a car that can get me to the next state over to see doctors, or more ideally move to another state where I can get the care I need. I'm only really out to friends and my therapist, which are legitimately some of the only things keeping me alive.
Sending a virtual hug from Florida. Just know that there are a lot of people trying to make this better, even if it takes a while for us to get there. Hang in there.
Stay strong sweetheart. Please know you have an huge community here, that will love you no matter what. Your loved as you are and as the person you will become.🫂🩵
I was under the understanding that most detransition was due to harassment. IE the person that was trans was harassed so bad they stopped the transition process and went back into the closet.
No, believe it or not people go down rabbit holes. Women also date assholes for years before realizing that they're not good mates. It doesn't mean they suddenly become lesbians.
I have a friend who, by most people's definition, has detransitioned, but from what I can tell she doesn't see it that way. Being transmasc was a part of her journey that she says she doesn't regret. They still identify as nonbinary and use she/they pronouns, and they even take estrogen because they had a hysterectomy. So if anything it's more like she's still a trans person, they just have experience transitioning both ways now. From what I can tell they seem happy with where they are in life. She has a loving T4T partner and plays lots of DND. It's not always a terrible experience to change your mind about transition, it's an extremely personal journey that is different for everyone
Both of the 2 first people are weaponizing their stories against trans people. I think it’s wrong to sue anyone for their own personal choices just because they didn’t get the outcome that they wanted. It’s called informed consent for a reason the doctors explain the risks for that reason. Lucy is awesome. Because she doesn’t want to deprive people of life saving gender affirming care.
Based on the fact that the tik tok the clip is posted on, I have trouble believing it. It's connected to a known hate group with a history of false claims, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
I feel bad for detransitioners, but people tend to use them as a reason I shouldn't exist, and as reasons people think I should get gender affirming care much later even if I'm nearly an adult. detransitioners seem to always get gender affirming care so much faster than trans people, and its sad that it affects both parties negatively (trans people on year long waiting lists, detransitioners getting TOP SURGERY at *13* )
Thanks, Lynn. 💖 I agree that I think 13 is too young for surgery. Puberty blockers at that age? Yes, absolutely. But I'm comfortable saying she has a good case for medical malpractice, which isn't because she got gender care, it's just because malpractice sometimes happens.
For the first one, in cases like hers, it's not just the doctors that are the problem, but parents should shoulder some responsibility, too. The kid was 13, right? A 13-year-old can't get surgery on their own...
The watermark on the tiktok for the 13-year-old detransitioner connect them with a known a group according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. Part of why they got that status is that they have been found to pay people to lie for anti-trans propaganda purposes. The more i look, the more I think there's no reason to believe the details of their stories.
The 8% statistic isn't exactly correct. There are plenty of people who would not consider themselves detransitioners that are technically still counted in detransition surveys. I'm non-binary and I used to think I was binary trans. I have no regret about any of the steps I took to transition. I might still be counted as a detransitioner in some surveys because I went back to dressing more like my agab and using pronouns that include the ones from my agab. There are also people who regret some parts of transitioning but don't consider themselves detransitioners, and they would still be counted as well. I understand why that might have been counted as detransitioning in some surveys in the past, but it's irresponsible and misleading for academics to continue using that phrase, which now carries particular social implications, to refer to many people who would not be considered detransitioners by themselves, other trans people, or society at large.
Thank you for covering this in a nuanced and none-hateful compassionate way. My husband is a detransitioner. I'm an intersex transgender woman and transitioned a decade ago. I couldn't be happier with my transition, and it is literally the only thing keeping me alive every single day, and that will never change. For my husband, it wasn't that he isn't trans, it isn't that he doesn't want to be a woman or that he doesn't feel like a woman, it isn't even that he disliked the changes that came with his transition. He just felt that his body is far too masculinized to be able to achieve the level of transition changes that he requires in order to be happy, and the world treated him so very much worse when he presented female (male privilege is a real thing), and he saw how violent and scary the world was getting towards trans folk and he decided he wanted to be able to protect me better. So, he gave up his transition, and detransitioned, to protect me and to have an easier time living life. He felt that since he'd never reach his goals or be able to eradicate his gender dysphoria there is no use in fighting a losing battle. It's literally the opposite of my situation. I literally could not survive a single day as my assigned gender, but he finds more comfort in ignoring his dysphoria than in fighting it.
Personally, I don’t think anyone under the age of 16 should be getting cosmetic surgeries. Obviously, there’s more to top surgery than cosmetics, but I want to include it because teens get boob jobs and nose jobs with a higher regret rate than top surgery. In the US, the age for medical consent is 16, so I think that should include cosmetic surgeries. Unfortunately for myself, I’m a trans guy in Florida over the age of 18. And transition is now illegal for adults in this god forsaken state. Yay. Personally, I only want to go on t short term (low dose) so I can get the voice drop and facial hair. Because cardiovascular issues run in my family (especially blood clots), and so does male pattern baldness.
As far as I know you have to jump through a crazy amount of hoops and red tape in order to be even considered for stuff like that. And in most states, doctors won't operate on people under a certain age. And also you'd have to have extremely open and accepting parents too.
@@livvy94 True. It is definitely rare to get an operation. Under 300 minors have gotten top surgery in the US last year. Plus, you’re parents probably needs to have a lot of money.
@@RenaissanceRockerBoy 👍 I’ve looked into that a lot. I guess for me, I just generally want to be more androgynous regarding my appearance. Aesthetic is really important to me. The only changes I really want include the voice drop and facial hair. The facial hair so I’m read as an adult rather than a teenaged boy.
Thank you very much for this video! I always wanted to hear from detrans people who are not transphobic about their experiences and relationship with their identities, more because I want to compare my experience as a pre-trans person with trans people and cis detrans people, but I don't want to stumble upon just transphobic sources which will not gonna help me, but will make my doubting even worse :P So it was heartwarming to finally see a video like this, ty💛
I'm not trans, nor am I medical doctor or therapist who works with trans people. I think it's important for people in my position to get their opinions from trans people and the peer-reviewed literature. I support gender-affirming care for minors, and I'll change my opinion only when the consensus of those actually doing the research and reviewing the data changes.
The vast majority are homosexual. This is because of the stigma against being gay. People feel changing their sex will make them straight. And they're correct... except it gives them gender dysphoria. Amazingly when they transition back their anxiety deflates.
A sizeable but small number of detransitioners on paper are non binary and either accomplished their transition goals and stopped or realized they wanted different options. It really depends how you define detransition, if it's stopping transition then that's a broad category. I'm gender fluid and femme of center and i started hrt knowing someday my experience might change but that's okay.
13 is definitely too young for an elective mastectomy and those doctors are rightfully being sued. i agree that 16 is the youngest anyone should be getting that surgery, and even then, most people can probably wait till 18.
I'm sure that the first detransitioner supported by the far right is being entirely forth coming in a case that they are actively trying in court.... She has to present her case in the best light. It's frustrating because it sounds like regular old malpractice on face value but instead she projects her case onto all gender care. 🙄 Also ignores that if she was thirteen she and her parents were deeply involved in the consent process and masectomy at that age is usually done (and rarely at that) in severe case of SI. At the end of the day only you can figure out your own gender and doctors can only facilitate transition when medically necessary. They can't diagnosis your gender, only your distress or euphoria over change from uour own words. More robust education and gender care would reduce an already low incidence but also help cis detransitioners with hormones and surgeries they need for detransition. This is remarkably unremarkable if you look at it like any other healthcare which has regrets, mistakes etc. on fact trans health care stands out for having most associated regrets having nothing to do with quality of care but social stigma. Which of course skews how one feels about care. One possible reason trana patients are usually very satisfied with care is because the bar is so low. Increasing the standard of care usually results in more available and better care not less. :/ yet gender related care when it's trans patients is different The average age for top surgery is 19. The number of gender related top surgeries on minors for the entire US is miniscule. Teenagers get breast augmentation in over triple the numbers with parental consent and that's a bigger issue by numbers alone.
Personally, I think social transition at any age is fine, puberty blockers once they're around the age of puberty, and hormones and surgeries no younger than 16
Great video Lynn....my algorithm was spot on recommending you. 🙂 Hit on a lot of my beliefs around transitioning/detranstitioning, and that logically, better and earlier education, and treatments would actually reduce the need for some surgeries and certainly reduce negative outcomes and regret. If there was less gatekeeping (both medically and within the community), then trans people wouldn't feel pushed to either gender extremes. But am I missing the link to Lucy's channel? Can't find it.
More funding for trans healthcare and education (as well as mental help for young people in general) would actually help people who wouldve detransitioned. If we would build effective and human systems for medical transition and if we would teach about being transgender in school, much, *much* less people would be confused with their own identity and fall victim to outside influence telling them how they should identify and what medical procedures are right for them, which is something that person only can ever know for sure The reason why there seems to be so many anti-trans detransitioners is because they get vigorously promoted by the anti-trans lobby, who use them to further their misinformation, and so detransitioners who dont put all the blame on the "transgender craze" just arent useful to them. All of that while they fiercely oppose trans healthcare and education - which makes it clear they just dgaf about detransitioners after all
I dispute 8 percent. Detransition should not be viewed as a snap shot reality without also revealing the return to transition 90 percent of detrans types later pursue. If you disregard the reasons of money and society plus family demand on the transgender minority. Thank you please do not block comment. thanks again for allowing comments in this vein.
This is such an interesting video I have always wondered why so many Detrans people were transphobic and didn't support the trans community I'm glad there are supportive Detrans people who don't take their mistakes out on others it's nice to see.
@@ShiningStar396 I KNOW! it's hard to find good doctors that are able to get trans people what they need. and they go and SUE them for it?! honestly f**k them.
Based on the souce that one is fiction. The rest of them seem legit, but the group they are with is a known LGBTQ+ hate group according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. They are documented liars. As far as I can tell, the rest of them are real detransitioners.
And I do agree with what everything you’re saying, but I understand the side that she’s coming from because the doctor should not have let a 13-year-old kid decide to do surgery that should’ve been talked about with parents they should’ve spent at least some time considering alternatives
(I apologize for the weird spaces, but youtube will nuke my comment otherwise) There are 2 things about detrans itioning that need to be pointed out. 1. If you are seeking to reverse any aspect of gen der affirmin g care, that is still g ender affirmi ng care and tr ans people have the resources and knowledge to help you with that. In fact, every tran s community I've seen is welcoming of people seeking to detr ansition. You're not gonna have a good time relating to others, you need a more specific group for that, but people are helpful. The assertion that the community is hostile and rejects de t ransitioners is really exaggerated 2. The reason det ransiti on is such an amplified issue is because tr ans people are seen as lesser than c is people. If you're assumed to be tr ans and it turns out you're ci s, that's a tragedy. If you're assumed to be ci s and it turns out you're tra ns, that's just normal. So 1 person who regrets their decision is worth more than thousands of people not being able to make decisions. You cannot sue a medical institution for denying you ge nder affir ming care or not recognizing you need it or taking too long to let you access it - these things aren't seen as mistakes. However, if a c is person is thought to be tra ns that is seen as a mistake and can be approached accordingly. This is also why people who are seemingly accepting of trans people or even allies are conservative on trans kids. You get folks who are fine with everything else _but_ "kids shouldn't have surgery", or "kids should only get blockers". And it's like, you fundamentally value c is lives over tra ns lives, sorry, but that's just how it works (unless you believe we should be keeping _everyone_ on blockers until a certain age, but that's a crazy idea and I doubt you do) Like, ok, you don't think surgery earlier than 16/17 is "ok". What does that mean? Does that include cisnormitive surgery as well? Would you be comfortable telling a depressed boy that he's just gonna have to manage with having breasts for a few more years because he's too young to know himself? The reality of the situation is that if healthcare becomes more accessible, there are going to be _more_ detr ansitioners and _more_ regret as time goes on, not less. The low regret rate doesn't indicate that this care is miraculous, it indicates that it's inaccessible and you need to get really lucky to receive it
Puberty blockers are reversible, and they're given to cis kids with super early puberties, so there's definitely no reason to keep those out of the hands of trans children. I also think it's totally fine for trans kids under 18 to get on hormones at age-appropriate puberty levels and probably at a low dose. I think the biggest thing is to Do Their Research Thoroughly, not just watch videos and look at pictures of people, etc. That's what I had to do anyway. Just because a super small number of people regret transitioning, doesn't mean it should be harder for trans kids (including nonbinary kids) to get life-saving meds that cis kids can get. I also see no reason for older teens under 18 not to get surgeries. Again, they need to Do Their Research. Better to have the tiny risk of a later regretful cis person than a likely dead trans kid kept from doing what they needed to do for their wellbeing.
And for the record, I'm nonbinary. I did my research from my tweens to my teens, offline and online. I started socially transitioning in 2002 or so at 16, medically to get T at 18 (I wish I'd been able to get some kind of top surgery first), got top surgery in 2014. I've gone off T multiple times including for years. I'm having a hysto hopefully soon, keeping an ovary for when I go off T and for health reasons. I think I've always been nonbinary, sometimes more transmasc than other times, but when I started transitioning, I didn't see nonbinary medical transitions, and was told by a therapist that I had to be binary to medically transition.
@@anelaboratedream It`s this kind of misinformation that creates detransitioners. Puberty blockers aren`t reversible. If there`s nothing wrong with a girl`s puberty why medicate it? That`s the difference between early puberty issues and GAC. You follow the usual emotional blackmailing of `dead trans kid` which nobody`s buying anymore and detransitioners mention. You`ve been on and off t for 20 years...why? Why wait until 38 to have a hysto, and keep an ovary for when you go off t and for health reasons? Why wait until 30 to have top surgery when you were socially transitioning at 16? And how can a non-binary person go through 20 years of on and off t, top surgery and an oncoming hysto, which will help you present as a `man` (or `androgynous`?). That`s really what people need to have full disclosure on, rather than parrot the usual talking points. That`s why detransitioners exist, as there is a lack of information, and just a protection of the `community`.
@@jacineyatrakos3149 How are they reversible? Once they have stalled puberty and been stopped, puberty carries on, but it has obviously been effected. These effects can not be reversed. It`s why puberty blocker use has been banned in so many countries.
I think that, in operating on someone that young, the motive was money. I doubt these procedures are "cheap" (which no surgery should be) but some doctors will do anything for money and I think this was the case with a lot of the people who regret it. Yet another downside of a for-profit healthcare scheme.
Some detransitioners twist and lie about details of their stories to strip trans people of their rights and block gender affirming care. They’re grifting people for money. That’s called being a con.
Ever hear of a "nose job"? In 2020 over 220,000 teens (13-19) had non-trans surgeries. These required parental approval and nothing more. The regret rate is unknown because nobody is tracking it. But 1 trans teen get surgery with no regret and it's absolutely wrong because what-if this and what-if that and so obviously it's hurting kids...🤨 You know, reasons. Defeat them: ask for details. They say, "get help" ask what kind of help and what to do when that fails. At that point most support conversion or reparative therapy over hormone therapy. I think they try to put themselves in the child's place and imagine growing up as the opposite sex. This is obviously wrong for them. If it's wrong, it must be wrong for everyone.
7:20 This is why I despise the traveling show of detransitioners going from state to state telling the same story to representatives and getting legislation banning trans healthcare passed. The goal was never to improve or learn, it was to ban.
Oh God... I was put on hormone pills for my Turner's, and by all that it good and holy did they made me mi-se-ra-ble. I just stppped taking them after a few months and am never going to take them again. Shoulda probably been one sign among many for my egg to crack😅😂
Sweetheart, lynn l love your channel. Nearly all detranisitioners seem to become very hateful and transphobic. They feel as if it didn't work for me, so it won't work for anyone. Trans heathcare is important healthcare
This is something that many people don't seem to understand. Everybody matters. Some people are less visible than others, or they may belong to a group that forms less than 1% of the population, or they may exist in a way that many others don't understand, but that doesn't mean that they don't matter. Nobody deserves to be swept under the rug and treated as though they are somehow less human.
There is a part of this story missing. Exactly how does any medical professional allow a 13 year old to get a double mastectomy? What medical insurance okays that? Unless there is another healthcare issue involved. Those details are going to matter.
We need to stop engaging with media that give negative light to trans and detransitioners poeple. Instead share or upvote stories and information that helpful both communities.
5:34 I agree. 5:47 this is my main point. I disagree with people who distransition and take it out on the community. It’s not okay, and actively endangers trans and gnc people as a whole due to it. People who detransition are valid in feeling the way they do. But to take it out on the group you were once a part of due to that just feels sickening imo.
The numbers have shown that those who genuinely detransition are a very small proportion of those who actually medically detransition, and most of them seem to end up taking money from the right to fearmonger, there's like 5-20 of them in the whole world or something? IIRC
60% of that 8% (or 4.8%) detransitioned purely for social reasons and end up transitioning later. Only 3.2% had regret. More recently 2% had regret and 1% had no change.
I only regret that I didn't transition sooner. I didn't because I didn't think it was safe to do so. Internalized transphobia is a bitch. So is the fear of not being accepted because everyone around you always makes the occasional transphobic comment.
Honestly, I cannot understand the flaw in the process. I knew what I was getting into, and perhaps somewhat more importantly, I knew the limitations of process. Even at my age I regret not being able to have children. With all the safeguards it is unthinkable to me that the medical community is at fault.
I think part of the process transitioning is finding the level of comfort and gender affirmation that works for you. And "detransitioning" may be a part of that. It shouldn't mean that all trans people are faking.
I don't know the numbers, but I imagine most detrans folks are not hateful of trans people. I hope that we find and uplift them when they choose to share their story, we will give them space to be part of the conversation, and to feel welcome. They don't deserve to feel like their existence is a threat. Their stories may even help improve healthcare for youth who wish to transition, by improving the education available.
I’m trans and I’ve considered detransitioning basically because I hate that I was born like this and all the problems that come with it. It’s like there’s absolutely no up side to it! You could say it would simply be out of spite.
for most people the upsides outweigh the downsides at about a decade of transition. do what's right for you, whatever that ends up being, but just take solace in knowing that it's a very slow fix, no matter what anyone genetically gifted says.
I mean. People are always mad that they have to go through lots and lots of psychological and medical assessments. I think it's not wrong that those assessments exist and they need to be peer reviewed by colleagues of the case is not 100% sure. 8% is not much if we look at the bigger picture but behind every person of those 8%, the double amount of pain and suffering exists. For a lot of young people, puperty already is hell and while it should be possible to get hormone therapy at a young age, it needs to be one of the very, very clear cases. So yes. I 100% with the statement that this needs to be decided individually at such young ages to prevent later problems. What I can't understand is the hate and instrumentalisation of those people. Leave them alone there suffered enough for two lifetimes.
For most of those 8% it is actually a triple amount of pain: since the most common reason to detransition is social rejection by friends/family/work. "Of those who had detransitioned, 82.5% reported at least one external driving factor. Frequently endorsed external factors included pressure from family and societal stigma. History of detransition was associated with male sex assigned at birth, nonbinary gender identity, bisexual sexual orientation, and having a family unsupportive of one's gender identity. A total of 15.9% of respondents reported at least one internal driving factor, including fluctuations in or uncertainty regarding gender identity." - Abstract, "Factors Leading to “Detransition” Among Transgender and Gender Diverse People in the United States: A Mixed-Methods Analysis" by Jack L. Turban, MD, MHS, Stephanie S. Loo, MSc, Anthony N. Almazan, and Alex S. Keuroghlian, MD, MPH, Published online 2021 Jun 1. doi: 10.1089/lgbt.2020.0437
I’ve considered detransitioning because I hate that I was born like this and all the crap that comes with it. There’s literally no upside! It would almost be out of spite
About to watch, but my bet is that they were either under/uneducated about the process, results, or long term upkeep, and/or family, friends, and society treating them like sh!t. The first person transitioned as a kid... I struggle with surgery for young children and am, personally, happy with my results only starting my transition journey at 24... I think puberty blockers for kids is more than enough... the brain doesn't really figure out how to think long term till mid 20s... At least for me, that is where all my MtF "regrets" came from surrounding transition, re: education about surgery options, and my family/society being a-holes. I'm very happily non-binary, and I find it extremely amusing that everyone now things I am FtM. Does that count at "de-transition" or gender fuqued =oD
Struggling with surgery and hormones for children is internalized transphobia on your part. Cis kids get this healthcare, so why not trans kids? Unless you somehow believe all children should be kept on blockers or something weird like that, but I sincerely doubt that's the case.
I just don’t think we should be allowed to do anything permanent to ourselves before we are allowed to drink/smoke you know? You should be a legal adult before you can do something like that and think about it- we are legal adults at a certain age because that’s when we have developed enough to make big decisions and be responsible. I know how many are impatient to transition as teenagers but you can socially transition, take voice training, learn how to style the gender you identify as before you go and do something irreversible. I’m 23 and just starting my transition now- and I’m glad I made absolutely certain that this is who I am before I made a move
Surgery happening pre-18 is extremely rare, and the first case genuinely seems like malpractice. Breasts aren't fully developed at 13. Puberty blockers are reversible and HRT can be undone with the opposite hormone.
@@ArAsDeCos the full effects of HRT after long periods are not entirely reversible. A lot of it- sure. Not all of it. Going mtf the resulting breast tissue would have to be surgically removed- complications can occur. Likelihood of breast cancer increases. Psychological after effects will remain, etc.
I think it should be about the individual person's level of maturity, not creating some overarching rule for everyone. I started testosterone at 17 and got top surgery at 18 - I am mature for my age and all of my doctors agreed that I was old enough to be making those decisions. I probably mature at a different rate than you. 16 should be the minimum age, but not everyone is ready at 16 and that's okay. When doctors are evaluating minors for trans hormones and surgeries, they do evaluate your maturity level. But saying you should need to be at the drinking and smoking age is misinformed, I'm not sure what country you live in but in countries where the drinking/smoking age is more than the legal adulthood age, it's not about having the maturity to make decisions, it's because those substances can affect brain development. Notably, the part of the brain that is still developing from 16-25 is NOT the part of the brain that would be responsible for knowing if you're trans and want to go through with trans surgeries, and not everyone's brain develops at the same rate.
Puberty is also a factor. It's not just impatience. Beard removal for example is extremely expensive, voice training takes time and money etc. Your voice will also never be the same as it was before thickening vocal chords. So there's a lot of context and nuance to any individuals transition choices. Jusr like any other healthcare. Also sometimes transition is a safety concern being visibly trans femme or trans masc is dangerous in many places. In the US people can vote and die in a war before they can drink so that seems a poor metric. Personally i think it's better to just invest in better gender care and training and emphasize individual agency and community support. Detransition is also gender care and would benefit from more training. People are going to have variable experiences because everyone has a variable relationship with their gender. Doctors are supposed to facilitate not prescribe transition and that means accepting that individuals are going to react differently (also genetics and environmental differences). You have to accept that there's some information you can't gain until you try an experience and that's a risk doctors are supposed to inform you about.
In 2020 over 220,000 teens had plastic surgery that permanently altered their appearance. 0 were trans related so all they needed was 1 parent's permission. Nobody complains despite there being much higher rates of regret. And yet trans surgeries are somehow a problem for society.
@@r-platt look, unless it a necessary surgery to preserve the life or health of a kid, it should be a hard pass untim adulthood. Now why specifically do you care how i feel about plastic surgery in teens? Or was this an attempted "gotcha"
@@ryangooseling your first statement says that you should be against plastic surgery in teens. if you're not against it but still assert your first statement, then you demonstrably have an issue only with trans surgeries, and that's the point they were making.
I do not believe that the first girl got her top surgery at thirteen unless she also had a medical issue that caused her br3@sts to be a problem other than being trans. Because I am working with Kaiser in my transition and it is literally against company policy to do top surgery with anyone younger than 16 (and usually they don’t to anyone under 18). I have done a ton of research and while they definitely are extremely trans supportive and are helping me with my transition (I am also ftm and I am 14) they would never do top surgery on anyone my age or younger if they didn’t have c@nc3r in their br3@sts or something. A lot of far right detransitioners actively lie or blow up the things that happened to them in their transition to gain more sympathy and fear mongering from the right. That does not however mean all detransitioners are anti trans. It’s just the ones who are suckered down an alt right pipeline and become transphobic.
Don’t detransitioners transition back to their previous sex because their new sex gave them gender-dysphoria? Which would mean that they are actually transgender since detransitioning requires going through a gender transition? So seeing how much detransitioners are suffering shows how bad gender-dysphoria is. And if gender-dysphoria can get so severe that someone would transition to their previous sex, then it must be just as serious for teens who are pre-transition. And if it’s that severe pre-transition then pre-transitioners deserve as much compassion and understanding as detransitioners are getting. Which means that we shouldn’t force children to go through a wrong puberty, or deny teens the opportunity to go through a correct puberty at the same time as their peers. Detransitioners more than anyone prove that gender-dysphoria is real.
In a way, anyone who went through a natal puberty and then decides to transition to a new sex is detransitioning, especially if they were subjected to forced puberty
If someone transitions young enough: like social transition in elementary school, then puberty-blockers, then cross-sex hormones at say 13, then bottom surgery at like 15/16/17; then they would basically be cisgender at that point. If you take estrogen young enough than even the pelvic bones and skull will develop into the female bone structure
Yes, I've seen some people use the term "retransition", instead of "detransition" to describe this experience. Instead of going back to a "normal correct past", they are moving foward, continuing exploring who they are. Here, detransition is not framed as a mistake, but as self-affirmation. At the end of the day, aren't all humans constantly transitioning to different stages of life? The people who think that detransition proves that trans people aren't real or should not exist, they already decided that cis life is more valuable than trans life.
I personally believe it’s important to talk about people who detransistion. At the same time, I believe some de-transitioners use their detransition as a way to harm trans people as a whole and I do disagree with that sort of behavior. Especially when transphobic people will use the cases of these people to cherry pick what they believe about trans people. As a whole, I think it’s completely valid to detransition, it’s your own body. I just think it’s not okay to say “transitioning is a danger” to spread even more hate towards trans and gender nonconforming people.
Detrans and trans people should be on the same side here. We share a lot of experiences. A detrans person regretting medical transition is the same as a trans person suffering because they can't get medical transition. Moreover, I've seen some people use the term "retransition", instead of "detransition" to describe their detrans experience. Instead of going back to a "normal correct past", they are moving foward, continuing exploring who they are. Here, detransition is not framed as a mistake, but as self-affirmation. At the end of the day, aren't all humans perpetually transitioning to different stages of life? The people who think that detransition proves that trans people aren't real or should not exist, they have already decided in advance that cis life is more valuable than trans life.
It seems that detransation is kind of the same as divorce was in the 1950s. It was seen as totally unacceptable and people was shamed for it back then.
The comment section feels overly hostile and mean more than usual right now… upsetting. Can’t we all be nice and accept eachother and understand everyone’s hardships are hard?
The first one I.. frankly don’t believe. I don’t want to disregard anyone’s genuine experiences with medical malpractice because trust me, as a intersex trans person I’ve heard the stories. HOWEVER, unless you started your puberty rather early, which can happen, how do you even have a developed chest to do surgery on? She states she was on hormone blockers, and then put on T. Meaning its way more likely she didnt HAVE a chest to operate on in the first place at 13. Cause the whole reason people GET top surgery, is because they have well, TITS. That they didn’t get puberty blockers to prevent having a chest in the first place. Which, according to her story, she did. Maybe I’m just being an ass but it just, im used to grifters lying about the detransition narrative so I just have genuine doubts.
My "friend" acted transphobic towards me just bc when she thought she was trans and socially transitioned she after some time realised she isn't trans :(. She thinks all trans ppl are just pretending
that sounds like she was projecting, but it's very insensitive and rude nonetheless, I'm sorry that's happened to you
just like my ex thought she was ace but turned out she was actually les, then she believed all ace are fake or just not having the "right" sex
@@garak_on_b5679 people like that make me wonder if I’m truly aroace or not. I am aesthetically attracted to women, men, and people under the nonbinary umbrella but I don’t feel a sexual and/or romantic attraction towards them. I’ve heard disgusting acephobes such as Brett Cooper’s flying monkeys say that people on the aro/ace spectrum are losers and virgins with no personality who can’t get a partner. I’ve never had a crush on anyone before. I think I might be broken.
@@SodaCider641 hey, you are not broken. I don't think they are right to judging a tag with their personal expirence, simply because they could make mistakes on their identification path doesn't mean ace/trans or whatever they thought they were doesn't exist.
also self exploration could be a long path, these tags are tools to help you identify and know yourself, not another chains or cages to limit yourself. you can try ace or any tag and see if it fits, or stay no tag at all and keep exploring, it's all fine, as long as you are comfortable with your state.
also, if finding a partner can be a standard to judge a person is winner or loser, then roaches shall be the biggest winner in the world, or rabbits. you don't need a partner to be a winner, you are perfect as you are.
@@SodaCider641 There are many ways to be human. People who treat sex and relationships as status symbols are toxic individuals whose opinions should not define anybody else's lives. There are plenty of people who never have sex, never get married, never have kids, etc. and who still live very fulfilling lives. Many people can't comprehend that because it isn't "normal". Because some people refuse to accept other people's choices, they limit themselves to a narrower worldview and don't see all that the world can be.
I'm asexual, demiromantic, and agender. I have never experienced a sexual attraction to anyone. I can experience romantic attraction to women, but it is incredibly rare. I am single and childless and I am fine with that. There have been several people, sometimes people in positions of authority in my life, who have attempted to "fix" me. It goes badly every time and they blame me for it going badly every time. No matter how much they make me out to be the problem simply for being different, they're the ones who are in the wrong.
Nobody but you gets to decide your identity.
What I want to know is how these people are "easily getting hormones", I've been waiting for almost a decade.
Sadly depends where you are, I think. I had luck with an informed consent clinic but even then it was a months-long wait, got delayed again, and then they obviously don't prescribe on the first appointment. But I've been on testosterone for almost 2 years now, and I hope you can get what you need soon!!
I got them somewhat "easily", but I used the "lying and bribes" strategy so 🤷♀
There is a solution, although it doesn't work that easily for trans men. You can just order the medication. It's not a controlled substance. And just check up with an endocrinologist from time to time
@@Zoey_the_RatIt's nice that you actually acknowledged that testosterone is far harder to get than estrogen, as it is a controlled substance. It would help if the trans "community" cared about anyone who doesn't want to be feminine or identify with womanhood.
@@PlatinumAltaria in America it’s very different
That’s really sad. It breaks my heart than people may be detransitioning because they are not accepted as their trans self. That’s like gay people marrying someone of the opposite sex because they wouldn’t be accepted as gay.
If only everyone wasn’t busy demonising harmless trans people, proper conversations could be had about trans safety and healthcare.
I mean it's also possible that these people just went down a bad rabbit hole and went too far identifying as something when they actually weren't.
Believe it or not, most people aren't trans, people get confused but people don't need to stuff themselves full of artificial hormones to prove a point.
Rock what you've got.
I am sick of centrain detransitioners acting as it it wasn't their choise to transition and it's something that was done to them. And they are nothing than passive victims.
Everything I had done in my transition was fought for and it is really hard to transition in my country.
@@FoxGameCZ Exactly
My nephew started expressing that he was a girl when he was five or six. He started hormone blockers at 13 and hormones when he was 15. He lived as a woman for eight years. He was love bombed by some evangelical Christians and ended up detransitioning because they got him to believe that he would go to hell if he lived his authentic self. Now he attends an evangelical college. He told me he’s still a woman and is still attracted to men, but he’s determined to live a celibate life because he’s afraid that’s the only way his god will accept him. I’m no longer a Christian and have only come I to my queerness in my early fifties. I listen and tell him I’m there for him however he needs me, but inside, I ache for him that he feels that the only way he’s acceptable is to deny who he is.
I’m sorry that happened to your nephew. He deserves to live as his true authentic self and be loved by genuine people with good hearts. Hopefully, things will get better. 🫂 ❤️🩹
There are trans-friendly pastors. In fact there are even trans pastors.
I wish your niece luck. She's in the grip of FEAR, not love.
I'd like to add another perspective you may not have heard yet. I'm Christian and used to believe I was trans (FtNB). Fair warning, I do not agree with your perspective, though I do respect it and I very much respect your love for your nephew.
Anyway-I think your nephew's church is ignoring a very real problem. Likely because they're too afraid to approach it, and/or are completely uninformed. If I was his church and especially pastor/s, I'd have many questions. Honestly, I don't think anyone is asking nearly enough questions at this point in history. There's too much telling others how it is (I.e. "I'm a girl and I like boys, I need treatments and procedures to become female." or "no, you're a boy and God made you a boy, you must live like a boy.") and not enough asking others how they think it is and why (I.e. "why would God want me to live in a way that doesn't feel right?" or "okay, what makes you think you're a girl? What kind of treatments do you want, and how do you think they'll help you?").
Also, let me ask you: what is wrong with being celibate and living out a role he may not believe fits him? Even if it comes from fear, would you be any more or less concerned if he instead went vegan for his faith? Or dressed in a certain way he may not have otherwise chosen?
Christian here as well, and just to add to the other person's already excellent comment, I want to remind your son that he is following a God of love who has reached out to him. Something I think we forget about the gospel is that we are all sinful by nature, but God reaches us out of love so that we may reach back out to Him, with our sins and all.
I am moved by your son's God-facing turn, but I want to provide encouragement to him by saying that even as a Christian, we will inherently never do a single good thing, because we are always inclined to do evil. However, if we simply have faith that God will deliver us from sin, rely on His power and ask Him to change us and our ways, He will always meet us with our needs. Basically, if we move an inch in faith, He moves us the extra mile. But remember that it's God Himself that changes us, not we mere humans on our own terms.
Your son knows what is sinful and wishes to turn away but is afraid that he is unacceptable. But I want to say that all sin is repulsive to Him, as small as a little white lie all the way to murder, and yet not a single one of those sins is unforgivable in God's sight. Truly I have committed each of the most egregious sins in my past but I am assured of my salvation because I have decided to turn from it and tell Jesus to take them from me, so instead of trying to earn my way to Heaven and God's acceptable standard (which I will never live up to), I simply allow Christ to shoulder my burdens and have faith that He will deliver me from future sin. And that is how we live as Christians.
My hope is that your son may ask God in earnest prayer to to help him take his burdens from him, so that he will not walk alone in fear, but in gratitude. I understand the heavy feeling of being unacceptable to the Lord but wanting to do what you can to be. Which is why I think all he need do is ask in authenticity for the help he needs. And I know he will find that God will answer that prayer.
God bless, and I will be praying for your family!
@@driftofair9691 Why is treating this 1 mental condition wrong while treating everything else is acceptable?
If you got your way it would destroy people's lives.
Do you have any idea how much gender dysphoria HURTS every single hour of every single day?
Can you imagine being tormented a dozen times a day for minutes at a time?
Did you know it gets worse with time? A dozen becomes HUNDREDS.
Then terror and pain unlike anything you've experienced compresses your entire being into a tiny tiny ball. But not all of you fits and some part of you is torn away to die.
All you can do is weep and endure. When it stops you discover you've changed.
Some part of your personality no longer exists.
More people regret typical plastic surgeries than ever regret trans related surgeries 😑
Forget plastic surgery, more people regret routine surgeries like knee surgery and appendectomies than sex reassignment/gender confirmation surgeries.
@@SarastistheSerpent ya know, yeh probably
Heck that applies to most surgeries. Even heart surgeries have a much higher regret rate which is surprising considering hearts y'know.....keep you alive.
I must say it does make sense that breast reduction is one of the lowest regretted surgeries..... must be a real load off the chest. 😏
@@neeliwilson9771 I do find it strange that it’s considered pretty much ok and accepted when women get implants to make flat chests or breasts bigger yet the outrage when a transman flattens breasts. The same with women that get tummy tucks or bum implants there is no outrage in comparison to gender surgery.
I'm pretty sure a lot of young girls regret chopping their boobs off because somebody convinced them they were a trans boy at 15.
Also, the source on the '8% of people de transition' is over-inflated because the quote is incomplete
To quote the website translucent:
"In the US, a survey of nearly 28,000 people found that 8% of respondents reported some kind of detransition. Of this 8%, 62% per cent only did so temporarily due to societal, financial, or family pressures.
This study would suggest that the overall detransition rate was slightly over 3%"
GenderGP itself (your source) clarifies this 62% temporary rate as well
You made a really good point about how Cis people don't have to fight to get hormones for care. My mom had me on T because I have XXY, which means my body produces less testosterone than the average AMAB. Even that was considered "normal," but when I was able to talk to a therapist as an adult and step away from it, and realized I'm trans and can make my own decisions about my medication, it was suddenly an issue that I was looking for care that made me feel much better than T ever did.
i watched a ton of detrans content when i was younger because i wanted to be sure i wasnt being influenced by only one side the way people claim we are. the majority of detrans people you find on social media have horrible takes, because they're lifted up by the right so much. ive met a lot of detransitioners who are totally fine
Can you recommend some of those who aren't transphobic? It would be helpful, because I would like to hear about other experiences too ^ ^
I did the same thing. My goal was to read/hear their stories and see if anything would resonate for me. Nothing really did, so it helped improve my confidence.
Thankfully, I found a massive Reddit thread that was actually very helpful and had very little transphobia. Most people were like "I de-transitioned, here's why, and I still think the trans community is valid."
I was talking to one of my queer communities early on, and when I mentioned this stuff, I got so much backlash for even mentioning the concept of de-transitioning. "Some of our community are in a fragile state of mind." Like okay, but if they can't handle the very positive conversation around it, then maybe some of them should consider whether they're in the right place.
@@user-d0g35 unfortunately its been so long since i was on that side of the internet, i couldnt tell you who any of them were ;w;
the way you talked about them here i think is the best way. seeing them as just fellow human beings with tough and diverse experiences in their lives, as people who are just as worthy of acceptance and care as we all are. we're in this world together and i hope we can improve each other's lives together.
I was one of those people who detransitioned for a time due to immense negative social pressures. It took 10 years being closeted after detransition to get to a point in life where transition became viable again. It was one of the most difficult things I've ever been through. If trans people were more broadly accepted, I never would have gone through that.
I've honestly considered going back into the closet multiple times for this reason... I'm 18, pre everything and it just feels hopeless. I live in a relatively accepting place and even then it's painful. I'm glad you've decided to restart transitioning and live for yourself, I can imagine how painful those ten years were 🩶
@@padpamash I was your age when I transitioned the first time. By the time I was 20 I was back in the closet. I think if you have a support system then lean on them heavy and take the leap. All you'll find if you stop now is a whole lot of 'what ifs' and regret. The thing I always say is that it never goes away no matter how much you push it down. Even people who regret their transition in my eyes are always going to be trans, they had to transition back to their agab, that's a whole transition more than most trans people!
Detransitioners are valid, however the fact that they regret their transition does not mean they have the right to strip other people of their rights to medical care
so true. and I think it should go both ways. I've seen some trans people completely invalidate the experience and opinions of people who detransitioned, acting like they don't exist etc. I think that's just wrong.
exactly, and so many of them want trans affirming care to be taken away from people who actually need it just because *they* got it and regretted it
@@lunamoona-o5bit’s because they don’t want kids or people going through what they went through.
The person in this video not even trans. Stop the madness
@@helenalovelock1030 your behavior around here is disgusting. You should stay out of queer spaces if you’re going to be so immature. Detransitioners should be listened to, loved and supported but it’s not okay for them to block healthcare for other trans people. If anything, detransition stories teaches you to be careful while transitioning and not to rush into it without doing research first.
I just read a post on r/nonbinary today made by a FtMtNB person who was on T for 6 years and then wasn't comfortable anymore with the effects, got off T and is NB now with an androgynous look, who said the reason they felt they had to continue T for about 2 years longer than they would've wanted is because of the idea of society only seeing them in a binary system where they are either binary trans or cis, and because they used to have beliefs they got transmeds who just saw them as a broken cis person who needs T and to get to the hormone levels of a cis man as the only solution for feeling better.
They are still figuring out their identity, possibly as a non-binary individual, but said they are feeling better. I also saw a MtF youtuber (I don't remember the name) who was on hormones for about 1.5 years, didn't feel okay, then got off hormones while remaining a trans woman, then made a video like 3 years later about it. She's still MtF just with the hormone levels of a cis man now, and with some effects remaining like breast growth and some more feminine features. Some people would count both of these cases as detrans people as use them as an example to talk against trans healthcare, which is just absolutely vile.
So much this.
Since my son came out 6 years ago, and I've been learning a lot, and always felt that , if we as society, just did better early education and explored/explained options, then there would be much less regret and need for some surgeries, as trans ppl wouldn't feel pushed to "get all the surgeries": when maybe they are hapy with more middle of the road. To me, that's just common sense.
Hateful Detransitioners and gatekeepers do so much harm to the Trans community, and just empowers the Right to make these hateful laws, they push.
If ppl really wanted to "Protect the kids from surgeries" and "keep sports fair" then they should be supporting better education and more common use of blockers.
Thank you for this video, I felt you made a lot of good points. However, with regard to the person who transitioned at 13 who is suing Kaiser, I feel like we’re not getting the whole story. In these cases, doctors make absolutely, positively sure before operating on anyone, especially a 13 year old. Consent forms would’ve been signed, lots and lots of consent forms, by the parents, by the child, by everyone. Lots of conversations would’ve been had about what to expect before, during and after surgery, are you absolutely sure you want to do this, etc. I’m guessing whoever’s paying this person’s legal fees (likely an anti-trans organization) are doing this to scare people and spread misconceptions about gender-affirming care, especially for those under 18. That said, the case will probably be thrown out.
Yah I’m literally perusing top surgery from Kaiser (as an adult) and they’ve already given me tons of info and I still need to follow WPATH guidelines. The only difference with Kaiser, is as an adult, I don’t need to be on hormones to get surgery
The person supposedly suing Kaiser probably made up a fake story to grift for money. They’re possibly not actually a detransitioner but just an actor hired by flying monkeys. Perhaps and hopefully, these detransition stories distributed by right wingers will be found to be fake.
I'm a detransitioner in a way. I'm non binary, a fact I've known since I was about 5 or 6, and something I hid from literally everyone until I was in my early 20s. I finally came out about 4 years ago to my mother, who basically acted like I was just trying to get attention and thus I haven't spoken about being trans with anyone in my family since. I would like to get on HRT and potentially have some more minor surgeries done but I live in a sparsely populated red state with quite literally no doctors that do gender affirming care, and I can't afford a car that can get me to the next state over to see doctors, or more ideally move to another state where I can get the care I need. I'm only really out to friends and my therapist, which are legitimately some of the only things keeping me alive.
Wow ! Thx for sharing your story.keep your head up and stay strong!
Sending love prayers blessings your way ❤
Sending a virtual hug from Florida. Just know that there are a lot of people trying to make this better, even if it takes a while for us to get there. Hang in there.
Stay strong sweetheart. Please know you have an huge community here, that will love you no matter what.
Your loved as you are and as the person you will become.🫂🩵
I’m so sorry you’re experiencing this. This sounds like a very stressful situation. I hope you find your way to living authentically.
I was under the understanding that most detransition was due to harassment. IE the person that was trans was harassed so bad they stopped the transition process and went back into the closet.
No, believe it or not people go down rabbit holes.
Women also date assholes for years before realizing that they're not good mates.
It doesn't mean they suddenly become lesbians.
I have a friend who, by most people's definition, has detransitioned, but from what I can tell she doesn't see it that way. Being transmasc was a part of her journey that she says she doesn't regret. They still identify as nonbinary and use she/they pronouns, and they even take estrogen because they had a hysterectomy. So if anything it's more like she's still a trans person, they just have experience transitioning both ways now. From what I can tell they seem happy with where they are in life. She has a loving T4T partner and plays lots of DND.
It's not always a terrible experience to change your mind about transition, it's an extremely personal journey that is different for everyone
Both of the 2 first people are weaponizing their stories against trans people. I think it’s wrong to sue anyone for their own personal choices just because they didn’t get the outcome that they wanted. It’s called informed consent for a reason the doctors explain the risks for that reason. Lucy is awesome. Because she doesn’t want to deprive people of life saving gender affirming care.
Based on the fact that the tik tok the clip is posted on, I have trouble believing it. It's connected to a known hate group with a history of false claims, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
I feel bad for detransitioners, but people tend to use them as a reason I shouldn't exist, and as reasons people think I should get gender affirming care much later even if I'm nearly an adult. detransitioners seem to always get gender affirming care so much faster than trans people, and its sad that it affects both parties negatively (trans people on year long waiting lists, detransitioners getting TOP SURGERY at *13* )
I have always argued for detransitioners. It's such an important part of the community
They deserve respect and continued medical care.
I only take offense when they start dictating other people's feelings and intentions.
Thanks, Lynn. 💖
I agree that I think 13 is too young for surgery. Puberty blockers at that age? Yes, absolutely.
But I'm comfortable saying she has a good case for medical malpractice, which isn't because she got gender care, it's just because malpractice sometimes happens.
For the first one, in cases like hers, it's not just the doctors that are the problem, but parents should shoulder some responsibility, too. The kid was 13, right? A 13-year-old can't get surgery on their own...
The watermark on the tiktok for the 13-year-old detransitioner connect them with a known a group according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. Part of why they got that status is that they have been found to pay people to lie for anti-trans propaganda purposes. The more i look, the more I think there's no reason to believe the details of their stories.
The 8% statistic isn't exactly correct. There are plenty of people who would not consider themselves detransitioners that are technically still counted in detransition surveys. I'm non-binary and I used to think I was binary trans. I have no regret about any of the steps I took to transition. I might still be counted as a detransitioner in some surveys because I went back to dressing more like my agab and using pronouns that include the ones from my agab. There are also people who regret some parts of transitioning but don't consider themselves detransitioners, and they would still be counted as well. I understand why that might have been counted as detransitioning in some surveys in the past, but it's irresponsible and misleading for academics to continue using that phrase, which now carries particular social implications, to refer to many people who would not be considered detransitioners by themselves, other trans people, or society at large.
Thank you for covering this in a nuanced and none-hateful compassionate way. My husband is a detransitioner. I'm an intersex transgender woman and transitioned a decade ago. I couldn't be happier with my transition, and it is literally the only thing keeping me alive every single day, and that will never change. For my husband, it wasn't that he isn't trans, it isn't that he doesn't want to be a woman or that he doesn't feel like a woman, it isn't even that he disliked the changes that came with his transition. He just felt that his body is far too masculinized to be able to achieve the level of transition changes that he requires in order to be happy, and the world treated him so very much worse when he presented female (male privilege is a real thing), and he saw how violent and scary the world was getting towards trans folk and he decided he wanted to be able to protect me better. So, he gave up his transition, and detransitioned, to protect me and to have an easier time living life. He felt that since he'd never reach his goals or be able to eradicate his gender dysphoria there is no use in fighting a losing battle. It's literally the opposite of my situation. I literally could not survive a single day as my assigned gender, but he finds more comfort in ignoring his dysphoria than in fighting it.
Personally, I don’t think anyone under the age of 16 should be getting cosmetic surgeries. Obviously, there’s more to top surgery than cosmetics, but I want to include it because teens get boob jobs and nose jobs with a higher regret rate than top surgery. In the US, the age for medical consent is 16, so I think that should include cosmetic surgeries. Unfortunately for myself, I’m a trans guy in Florida over the age of 18. And transition is now illegal for adults in this god forsaken state. Yay. Personally, I only want to go on t short term (low dose) so I can get the voice drop and facial hair. Because cardiovascular issues run in my family (especially blood clots), and so does male pattern baldness.
As far as I know you have to jump through a crazy amount of hoops and red tape in order to be even considered for stuff like that. And in most states, doctors won't operate on people under a certain age. And also you'd have to have extremely open and accepting parents too.
@@livvy94 True. It is definitely rare to get an operation. Under 300 minors have gotten top surgery in the US last year. Plus, you’re parents probably needs to have a lot of money.
You can get Finasteride and minoxidil for hair loss!
@@RenaissanceRockerBoy 👍 I’ve looked into that a lot. I guess for me, I just generally want to be more androgynous regarding my appearance. Aesthetic is really important to me. The only changes I really want include the voice drop and facial hair. The facial hair so I’m read as an adult rather than a teenaged boy.
Thank you very much for this video! I always wanted to hear from detrans people who are not transphobic about their experiences and relationship with their identities, more because I want to compare my experience as a pre-trans person with trans people and cis detrans people, but I don't want to stumble upon just transphobic sources which will not gonna help me, but will make my doubting even worse :P So it was heartwarming to finally see a video like this, ty💛
I'm not trans, nor am I medical doctor or therapist who works with trans people.
I think it's important for people in my position to get their opinions from trans people and the peer-reviewed literature. I support gender-affirming care for minors, and I'll change my opinion only when the consensus of those actually doing the research and reviewing the data changes.
Thank you so much for this video, this kind of information and discussion is really important
I lowkey wonder if some people who detransition are actually genderfluid.
The vast majority are homosexual.
This is because of the stigma against being gay. People feel changing their sex will make them straight. And they're correct... except it gives them gender dysphoria.
Amazingly when they transition back their anxiety deflates.
same here
A sizeable but small number of detransitioners on paper are non binary and either accomplished their transition goals and stopped or realized they wanted different options. It really depends how you define detransition, if it's stopping transition then that's a broad category. I'm gender fluid and femme of center and i started hrt knowing someday my experience might change but that's okay.
13 is definitely too young for an elective mastectomy and those doctors are rightfully being sued. i agree that 16 is the youngest anyone should be getting that surgery, and even then, most people can probably wait till 18.
I'm sure that the first detransitioner supported by the far right is being entirely forth coming in a case that they are actively trying in court.... She has to present her case in the best light. It's frustrating because it sounds like regular old malpractice on face value but instead she projects her case onto all gender care. 🙄 Also ignores that if she was thirteen she and her parents were deeply involved in the consent process and masectomy at that age is usually done (and rarely at that) in severe case of SI. At the end of the day only you can figure out your own gender and doctors can only facilitate transition when medically necessary. They can't diagnosis your gender, only your distress or euphoria over change from uour own words. More robust education and gender care would reduce an already low incidence but also help cis detransitioners with hormones and surgeries they need for detransition. This is remarkably unremarkable if you look at it like any other healthcare which has regrets, mistakes etc. on fact trans health care stands out for having most associated regrets having nothing to do with quality of care but social stigma. Which of course skews how one feels about care. One possible reason trana patients are usually very satisfied with care is because the bar is so low. Increasing the standard of care usually results in more available and better care not less. :/ yet gender related care when it's trans patients is different
The average age for top surgery is 19. The number of gender related top surgeries on minors for the entire US is miniscule. Teenagers get breast augmentation in over triple the numbers with parental consent and that's a bigger issue by numbers alone.
Personally, I think social transition at any age is fine, puberty blockers once they're around the age of puberty, and hormones and surgeries no younger than 16
I can’t even imagine the hell a detransitioning individual is going through.
This was a really good video Lynn. 💛
Great video Lynn....my algorithm was spot on recommending you. 🙂 Hit on a lot of my beliefs around transitioning/detranstitioning, and that logically, better and earlier education, and treatments would actually reduce the need for some surgeries and certainly reduce negative outcomes and regret. If there was less gatekeeping (both medically and within the community), then trans people wouldn't feel pushed to either gender extremes.
But am I missing the link to Lucy's channel? Can't find it.
More funding for trans healthcare and education (as well as mental help for young people in general) would actually help people who wouldve detransitioned. If we would build effective and human systems for medical transition and if we would teach about being transgender in school, much, *much* less people would be confused with their own identity and fall victim to outside influence telling them how they should identify and what medical procedures are right for them, which is something that person only can ever know for sure
The reason why there seems to be so many anti-trans detransitioners is because they get vigorously promoted by the anti-trans lobby, who use them to further their misinformation, and so detransitioners who dont put all the blame on the "transgender craze" just arent useful to them. All of that while they fiercely oppose trans healthcare and education - which makes it clear they just dgaf about detransitioners after all
this exactly!
I dispute 8 percent. Detransition should not be viewed as a snap shot reality without also revealing the return to transition 90 percent of detrans types later pursue. If you disregard the reasons of money and society plus family demand on the transgender minority. Thank you please do not block comment. thanks again for allowing comments in this vein.
This is such an interesting video I have always wondered why so many Detrans people were transphobic and didn't support the trans community I'm glad there are supportive Detrans people who don't take their mistakes out on others it's nice to see.
I agree with you, Lynn.
For the first person, did she say she consented to top surgery? I'm a bit confused.
I don't think she should be suing them.
@@ShiningStar396 I KNOW! it's hard to find good doctors that are able to get trans people what they need. and they go and SUE them for it?! honestly f**k them.
This is America, we sue for everything and anything. And its ridiculous @ShiningStar396
Based on the souce that one is fiction. The rest of them seem legit, but the group they are with is a known LGBTQ+ hate group according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. They are documented liars. As far as I can tell, the rest of them are real detransitioners.
And I do agree with what everything you’re saying, but I understand the side that she’s coming from because the doctor should not have let a 13-year-old kid decide to do surgery that should’ve been talked about with parents they should’ve spent at least some time considering alternatives
(I apologize for the weird spaces, but youtube will nuke my comment otherwise)
There are 2 things about detrans itioning that need to be pointed out.
1. If you are seeking to reverse any aspect of gen der affirmin g care, that is still g ender affirmi ng care and tr ans people have the resources and knowledge to help you with that. In fact, every tran s community I've seen is welcoming of people seeking to detr ansition. You're not gonna have a good time relating to others, you need a more specific group for that, but people are helpful. The assertion that the community is hostile and rejects de t ransitioners is really exaggerated
2. The reason det ransiti on is such an amplified issue is because tr ans people are seen as lesser than c is people. If you're assumed to be tr ans and it turns out you're ci s, that's a tragedy. If you're assumed to be ci s and it turns out you're tra ns, that's just normal. So 1 person who regrets their decision is worth more than thousands of people not being able to make decisions. You cannot sue a medical institution for denying you ge nder affir ming care or not recognizing you need it or taking too long to let you access it - these things aren't seen as mistakes. However, if a c is person is thought to be tra ns that is seen as a mistake and can be approached accordingly.
This is also why people who are seemingly accepting of trans people or even allies are conservative on trans kids. You get folks who are fine with everything else _but_ "kids shouldn't have surgery", or "kids should only get blockers". And it's like, you fundamentally value c is lives over tra ns lives, sorry, but that's just how it works (unless you believe we should be keeping _everyone_ on blockers until a certain age, but that's a crazy idea and I doubt you do)
Like, ok, you don't think surgery earlier than 16/17 is "ok". What does that mean? Does that include cisnormitive surgery as well? Would you be comfortable telling a depressed boy that he's just gonna have to manage with having breasts for a few more years because he's too young to know himself?
The reality of the situation is that if healthcare becomes more accessible, there are going to be _more_ detr ansitioners and _more_ regret as time goes on, not less. The low regret rate doesn't indicate that this care is miraculous, it indicates that it's inaccessible and you need to get really lucky to receive it
Puberty blockers are reversible, and they're given to cis kids with super early puberties, so there's definitely no reason to keep those out of the hands of trans children. I also think it's totally fine for trans kids under 18 to get on hormones at age-appropriate puberty levels and probably at a low dose. I think the biggest thing is to Do Their Research Thoroughly, not just watch videos and look at pictures of people, etc. That's what I had to do anyway. Just because a super small number of people regret transitioning, doesn't mean it should be harder for trans kids (including nonbinary kids) to get life-saving meds that cis kids can get. I also see no reason for older teens under 18 not to get surgeries. Again, they need to Do Their Research. Better to have the tiny risk of a later regretful cis person than a likely dead trans kid kept from doing what they needed to do for their wellbeing.
And for the record, I'm nonbinary. I did my research from my tweens to my teens, offline and online. I started socially transitioning in 2002 or so at 16, medically to get T at 18 (I wish I'd been able to get some kind of top surgery first), got top surgery in 2014. I've gone off T multiple times including for years. I'm having a hysto hopefully soon, keeping an ovary for when I go off T and for health reasons. I think I've always been nonbinary, sometimes more transmasc than other times, but when I started transitioning, I didn't see nonbinary medical transitions, and was told by a therapist that I had to be binary to medically transition.
@@anelaboratedream It`s this kind of misinformation that creates detransitioners. Puberty blockers aren`t reversible. If there`s nothing wrong with a girl`s puberty why medicate it? That`s the difference between early puberty issues and GAC.
You follow the usual emotional blackmailing of `dead trans kid` which nobody`s buying anymore and detransitioners mention.
You`ve been on and off t for 20 years...why? Why wait until 38 to have a hysto, and keep an ovary for when you go off t and for health reasons? Why wait until 30 to have top surgery when you were socially transitioning at 16? And how can a non-binary person go through 20 years of on and off t, top surgery and an oncoming hysto, which will help you present as a `man` (or `androgynous`?). That`s really what people need to have full disclosure on, rather than parrot the usual talking points. That`s why detransitioners exist, as there is a lack of information, and just a protection of the `community`.
They are reversible stop lying @@barryledgister4496
@barryledgister4496 also you seem chronically obsessed with this channel and spreading misinformation and transphobia
@@jacineyatrakos3149 How are they reversible? Once they have stalled puberty and been stopped, puberty carries on, but it has obviously been effected. These effects can not be reversed. It`s why puberty blocker use has been banned in so many countries.
Moral of the story, stop villifying people for making personal decisions for themselves
I think that, in operating on someone that young, the motive was money. I doubt these procedures are "cheap" (which no surgery should be) but some doctors will do anything for money and I think this was the case with a lot of the people who regret it. Yet another downside of a for-profit healthcare scheme.
I thought doctors didn't perform transition surgery on anyone under 18. Who's doing surgery on 13 year olds?
Some detransitioners twist and lie about details of their stories to strip trans people of their rights and block gender affirming care. They’re grifting people for money. That’s called being a con.
Ever hear of a "nose job"?
In 2020 over 220,000 teens (13-19) had non-trans surgeries. These required parental approval and nothing more. The regret rate is unknown because nobody is tracking it.
But 1 trans teen get surgery with no regret and it's absolutely wrong because what-if this and what-if that and so obviously it's hurting kids...🤨
You know, reasons.
Defeat them: ask for details. They say, "get help" ask what kind of help and what to do when that fails. At that point most support conversion or reparative therapy over hormone therapy.
I think they try to put themselves in the child's place and imagine growing up as the opposite sex. This is obviously wrong for them. If it's wrong, it must be wrong for everyone.
Top surgeries have been done on 14 year olds.
@@barryledgister4496 Why were those surgeries performed?
@@r-platt As part of gender affirming care.
7:20 This is why I despise the traveling show of detransitioners going from state to state telling the same story to representatives and getting legislation banning trans healthcare passed. The goal was never to improve or learn, it was to ban.
Oh God... I was put on hormone pills for my Turner's, and by all that it good and holy did they made me mi-se-ra-ble. I just stppped taking them after a few months and am never going to take them again.
Shoulda probably been one sign among many for my egg to crack😅😂
My comment is algorithm food.
Sweetheart, lynn l love your channel. Nearly all detranisitioners seem to become very hateful and transphobic. They feel as if it didn't work for me, so it won't work for anyone. Trans heathcare is important healthcare
This is something that many people don't seem to understand. Everybody matters. Some people are less visible than others, or they may belong to a group that forms less than 1% of the population, or they may exist in a way that many others don't understand, but that doesn't mean that they don't matter. Nobody deserves to be swept under the rug and treated as though they are somehow less human.
There is a part of this story missing. Exactly how does any medical professional allow a 13 year old to get a double mastectomy? What medical insurance okays that? Unless there is another healthcare issue involved. Those details are going to matter.
We need to stop engaging with media that give negative light to trans and detransitioners poeple. Instead share or upvote stories and information that helpful both communities.
5:34 I agree. 5:47 this is my main point.
I disagree with people who distransition and take it out on the community. It’s not okay, and actively endangers trans and gnc people as a whole due to it.
People who detransition are valid in feeling the way they do. But to take it out on the group you were once a part of due to that just feels sickening imo.
What is Lucy's info so I can follow her? I didn't see it in the description. I loved what she had to say.
I forgot to put it in. As soon as I get home from work I will put her tick tock information in the description. I absolutely love her!
The numbers have shown that those who genuinely detransition are a very small proportion of those who actually medically detransition, and most of them seem to end up taking money from the right to fearmonger, there's like 5-20 of them in the whole world or something? IIRC
8%? I thought the absolute highest estimate was around 3
60% of that 8% (or 4.8%) detransitioned purely for social reasons and end up transitioning later.
Only 3.2% had regret.
More recently 2% had regret and 1% had no change.
I only regret that I didn't transition sooner.
I didn't because I didn't think it was safe to do so. Internalized transphobia is a bitch. So is the fear of not being accepted because everyone around you always makes the occasional transphobic comment.
Honestly, I cannot understand the flaw in the process. I knew what I was getting into, and perhaps somewhat more importantly, I knew the limitations of process. Even at my age I regret not being able to have children. With all the safeguards it is unthinkable to me that the medical community is at fault.
I think part of the process transitioning is finding the level of comfort and gender affirmation that works for you. And "detransitioning" may be a part of that. It shouldn't mean that all trans people are faking.
I don't know the numbers, but I imagine most detrans folks are not hateful of trans people. I hope that we find and uplift them when they choose to share their story, we will give them space to be part of the conversation, and to feel welcome. They don't deserve to feel like their existence is a threat.
Their stories may even help improve healthcare for youth who wish to transition, by improving the education available.
I’m trans and I’ve considered detransitioning basically because I hate that I was born like this and all the problems that come with it. It’s like there’s absolutely no up side to it! You could say it would simply be out of spite.
for most people the upsides outweigh the downsides at about a decade of transition. do what's right for you, whatever that ends up being, but just take solace in knowing that it's a very slow fix, no matter what anyone genetically gifted says.
I mean.
People are always mad that they have to go through lots and lots of psychological and medical assessments.
I think it's not wrong that those assessments exist and they need to be peer reviewed by colleagues of the case is not 100% sure.
8% is not much if we look at the bigger picture but behind every person of those 8%, the double amount of pain and suffering exists.
For a lot of young people, puperty already is hell and while it should be possible to get hormone therapy at a young age, it needs to be one of the very, very clear cases. So yes. I 100% with the statement that this needs to be decided individually at such young ages to prevent later problems.
What I can't understand is the hate and instrumentalisation of those people. Leave them alone there suffered enough for two lifetimes.
For most of those 8% it is actually a triple amount of pain: since the most common reason to detransition is social rejection by friends/family/work.
"Of those who had detransitioned, 82.5% reported at least one external driving factor. Frequently endorsed external factors included pressure from family and societal stigma. History of detransition was associated with male sex assigned at birth, nonbinary gender identity, bisexual sexual orientation, and having a family unsupportive of one's gender identity. A total of 15.9% of respondents reported at least one internal driving factor, including fluctuations in or uncertainty regarding gender identity."
- Abstract, "Factors Leading to “Detransition” Among Transgender and Gender Diverse People in the United States: A Mixed-Methods Analysis" by Jack L. Turban, MD, MHS, Stephanie S. Loo, MSc, Anthony N. Almazan, and Alex S. Keuroghlian, MD, MPH, Published online 2021 Jun 1. doi: 10.1089/lgbt.2020.0437
I’ve considered detransitioning because I hate that I was born like this and all the crap that comes with it. There’s literally no upside! It would almost be out of spite
About to watch, but my bet is that they were either under/uneducated about the process, results, or long term upkeep, and/or family, friends, and society treating them like sh!t.
The first person transitioned as a kid... I struggle with surgery for young children and am, personally, happy with my results only starting my transition journey at 24... I think puberty blockers for kids is more than enough... the brain doesn't really figure out how to think long term till mid 20s...
At least for me, that is where all my MtF "regrets" came from surrounding transition, re: education about surgery options, and my family/society being a-holes.
I'm very happily non-binary, and I find it extremely amusing that everyone now things I am FtM. Does that count at "de-transition" or gender fuqued =oD
Struggling with surgery and hormones for children is internalized transphobia on your part. Cis kids get this healthcare, so why not trans kids? Unless you somehow believe all children should be kept on blockers or something weird like that, but I sincerely doubt that's the case.
I just don’t think we should be allowed to do anything permanent to ourselves before we are allowed to drink/smoke you know? You should be a legal adult before you can do something like that and think about it- we are legal adults at a certain age because that’s when we have developed enough to make big decisions and be responsible.
I know how many are impatient to transition as teenagers but you can socially transition, take voice training, learn how to style the gender you identify as before you go and do something irreversible.
I’m 23 and just starting my transition now- and I’m glad I made absolutely certain that this is who I am before I made a move
Surgery happening pre-18 is extremely rare, and the first case genuinely seems like malpractice. Breasts aren't fully developed at 13. Puberty blockers are reversible and HRT can be undone with the opposite hormone.
@@ArAsDeCos the full effects of HRT after long periods are not entirely reversible. A lot of it- sure. Not all of it. Going mtf the resulting breast tissue would have to be surgically removed- complications can occur. Likelihood of breast cancer increases. Psychological after effects will remain, etc.
I think it should be about the individual person's level of maturity, not creating some overarching rule for everyone. I started testosterone at 17 and got top surgery at 18 - I am mature for my age and all of my doctors agreed that I was old enough to be making those decisions. I probably mature at a different rate than you. 16 should be the minimum age, but not everyone is ready at 16 and that's okay. When doctors are evaluating minors for trans hormones and surgeries, they do evaluate your maturity level. But saying you should need to be at the drinking and smoking age is misinformed, I'm not sure what country you live in but in countries where the drinking/smoking age is more than the legal adulthood age, it's not about having the maturity to make decisions, it's because those substances can affect brain development. Notably, the part of the brain that is still developing from 16-25 is NOT the part of the brain that would be responsible for knowing if you're trans and want to go through with trans surgeries, and not everyone's brain develops at the same rate.
@@TheOpinionarium Surgery can remove it = reversible. Bye.
Puberty is also a factor. It's not just impatience. Beard removal for example is extremely expensive, voice training takes time and money etc. Your voice will also never be the same as it was before thickening vocal chords. So there's a lot of context and nuance to any individuals transition choices. Jusr like any other healthcare.
Also sometimes transition is a safety concern being visibly trans femme or trans masc is dangerous in many places. In the US people can vote and die in a war before they can drink so that seems a poor metric. Personally i think it's better to just invest in better gender care and training and emphasize individual agency and community support. Detransition is also gender care and would benefit from more training. People are going to have variable experiences because everyone has a variable relationship with their gender. Doctors are supposed to facilitate not prescribe transition and that means accepting that individuals are going to react differently (also genetics and environmental differences). You have to accept that there's some information you can't gain until you try an experience and that's a risk doctors are supposed to inform you about.
I'm all fir puberty blockers but surgery is an adult decision and should be reserved for adults.
In 2020 over 220,000 teens had plastic surgery that permanently altered their appearance. 0 were trans related so all they needed was 1 parent's permission.
Nobody complains despite there being much higher rates of regret.
And yet trans surgeries are somehow a problem for society.
@@r-platt look, unless it a necessary surgery to preserve the life or health of a kid, it should be a hard pass untim adulthood.
Now why specifically do you care how i feel about plastic surgery in teens?
Or was this an attempted "gotcha"
It's fine how it is now
@@ryangooseling your first statement says that you should be against plastic surgery in teens. if you're not against it but still assert your first statement, then you demonstrably have an issue only with trans surgeries, and that's the point they were making.
@@oxoniumgirl excuse you? See the comment above yours
Earlyyy
You're hella early thank you so much!
I wonder if retransitioners exist?
I do not believe that the first girl got her top surgery at thirteen unless she also had a medical issue that caused her br3@sts to be a problem other than being trans. Because I am working with Kaiser in my transition and it is literally against company policy to do top surgery with anyone younger than 16 (and usually they don’t to anyone under 18). I have done a ton of research and while they definitely are extremely trans supportive and are helping me with my transition (I am also ftm and I am 14) they would never do top surgery on anyone my age or younger if they didn’t have c@nc3r in their br3@sts or something. A lot of far right detransitioners actively lie or blow up the things that happened to them in their transition to gain more sympathy and fear mongering from the right. That does not however mean all detransitioners are anti trans. It’s just the ones who are suckered down an alt right pipeline and become transphobic.
Don’t detransitioners transition back to their previous sex because their new sex gave them gender-dysphoria? Which would mean that they are actually transgender since detransitioning requires going through a gender transition?
So seeing how much detransitioners are suffering shows how bad gender-dysphoria is. And if gender-dysphoria can get so severe that someone would transition to their previous sex, then it must be just as serious for teens who are pre-transition. And if it’s that severe pre-transition then pre-transitioners deserve as much compassion and understanding as detransitioners are getting. Which means that we shouldn’t force children to go through a wrong puberty, or deny teens the opportunity to go through a correct puberty at the same time as their peers.
Detransitioners more than anyone prove that gender-dysphoria is real.
In a way, anyone who went through a natal puberty and then decides to transition to a new sex is detransitioning, especially if they were subjected to forced puberty
If someone transitions young enough: like social transition in elementary school, then puberty-blockers, then cross-sex hormones at say 13, then bottom surgery at like 15/16/17; then they would basically be cisgender at that point. If you take estrogen young enough than even the pelvic bones and skull will develop into the female bone structure
That is quite literally not how any of that works.
Yes, I've seen some people use the term "retransition", instead of "detransition" to describe this experience. Instead of going back to a "normal correct past", they are moving foward, continuing exploring who they are. Here, detransition is not framed as a mistake, but as self-affirmation. At the end of the day, aren't all humans constantly transitioning to different stages of life?
The people who think that detransition proves that trans people aren't real or should not exist, they already decided that cis life is more valuable than trans life.
I personally believe it’s important to talk about people who detransistion. At the same time, I believe some de-transitioners use their detransition as a way to harm trans people as a whole and I do disagree with that sort of behavior. Especially when transphobic people will use the cases of these people to cherry pick what they believe about trans people.
As a whole, I think it’s completely valid to detransition, it’s your own body. I just think it’s not okay to say “transitioning is a danger” to spread even more hate towards trans and gender nonconforming people.
Detrans and trans people should be on the same side here. We share a lot of experiences. A detrans person regretting medical transition is the same as a trans person suffering because they can't get medical transition.
Moreover, I've seen some people use the term "retransition", instead of "detransition" to describe their detrans experience. Instead of going back to a "normal correct past", they are moving foward, continuing exploring who they are. Here, detransition is not framed as a mistake, but as self-affirmation. At the end of the day, aren't all humans perpetually transitioning to different stages of life?
The people who think that detransition proves that trans people aren't real or should not exist, they have already decided in advance that cis life is more valuable than trans life.
It seems that detransation is kind of the same as divorce was in the 1950s. It was seen as totally unacceptable and people was shamed for it back then.
First 💗
Thank you for being the first!!!
The comment section feels overly hostile and mean more than usual right now… upsetting. Can’t we all be nice and accept eachother and understand everyone’s hardships are hard?
As far as I'm concerned, many detransitioners are people who transitioned twice. They're still part of our community if they want to be.
Will I meet the girl of my dreams and be a caring and honest husband to her?
Hello
The first one I.. frankly don’t believe. I don’t want to disregard anyone’s genuine experiences with medical malpractice because trust me, as a intersex trans person I’ve heard the stories. HOWEVER, unless you started your puberty rather early, which can happen, how do you even have a developed chest to do surgery on?
She states she was on hormone blockers, and then put on T. Meaning its way more likely she didnt HAVE a chest to operate on in the first place at 13.
Cause the whole reason people GET top surgery, is because they have well, TITS. That they didn’t get puberty blockers to prevent having a chest in the first place. Which, according to her story, she did.
Maybe I’m just being an ass but it just, im used to grifters lying about the detransition narrative so I just have genuine doubts.
I don't think they're saying these things because they hate you. I think they're saying it because they care about you. Did you ever consider that?