God, the lost humor in this game compared to the final. Luigi swooning over the jellyfish sisters and Mario back-handing him to snap out of it is great, wish they found a way to keep that in.
This seems to be par for the course, at least for older games. Prototypes of older games often have major differences even just two months away from release. The Chrono Trigger prototype from four months before release is pretty similar to this. Many maps are incomplete or missing, while some are completely different. This one's six months away from release. GBA games didn't need as many ressources to develop as modern games and things could move a lot faster. It wasn't uncommon for games to be made in a year. It's entirely possible this game was too, since this demo was made for the E3 in which the game was revealed.
@@poudink5791for some games it's absolutely ludicrous how much they had to cut. The time between the release of Ratchet and Clank 2 and 3 was less than a Year, not only is 3 the most acclaimed and highest rated but the amount of scrapped content they have in the built in "insomniac museum" just showcases an insane amount of cut content
@@poudink5791 that's something that's been the case since up untill the PS3/XB360 era since you had a lot more limitations and lower budgets, you didn't have to worry so much anout if something was incomplete before release since you could easily change it in a few days at most.
6:45 I like how Mario proceeds on doing a Default Pose (A frame from the Spin Move), as if the game can't find an animation of him surfing. This is something you'd expect more in a 3D game. Also, it seems at that time the development is more focused on the storyline and progression while keeping the fights as placeholders. Wondering if that's how it mostly goes while making an RPG kind of game.
22:42 Mario is a true chad older brother, reminding Luigi not to be distracted and stay focused on their priorities (that being to save Peach and by extension the beanbean kingdom).
One little thing you forgot to mention all the way back in the first part, the music for stardust fields is actually shifted up a key in the final game!
@@glitchy6449 I listened to it a few times, and it sounds the same to me. Still though there is no way to know for sure until someone actually analyzes the audio.
@@Skillaway The final one has an extra sound that acomppanies the trumpets, also in majority of the song of the final one, the trumpets are replaced with another instrument, and the bipbops at the final have like an echo added to them
Huh, it behaved differently here than it did for me in some instances. For example, the cutscenes with the fire and thunder gods did happen, the Firebrand and Thunderhand receptacles in the temples and ocean worked (though the ones that would open the way to the pipe still didn't, not that it matters because you can be Jesus and get to it that way), and the room where you normally land in Oho Oasis played that cutscene when I entered it for the first time. For some reason when I was exploring the ship, I got a scene of presenting the membership card, however the loading zone after that didn't work. I didn't find the Bink minigame, that'd have been crazy. I don't recall if I just never entered the room or it was blocked. There was one skeleton NPC that softlocked the game when I talked to them (likely because I only had Mario, after Luigi somehow despawned as a result of going in the Mini Mario hole) Also, my actions didn't glitch out in the way yours did after pushing a gravestone, they just refused all L/R inputs until I used Thunder again. This prototype definitely has a lot of inconsistencies with itself
14:10 I like how even in this Proto Build and in the remake these two toads actually look unique and so the conversation they are having also makes sense, was so weird how the remake just turned both into normal looking toads and so the conversation also lost sense and the joke entirely
So glad Alphadream decided to go with the black eyes for their character designs. Really makes them stand out and also looks much less weird compared to the blue ones
interesting how a majority of the game's maps and level design was finished first, but most of the programming just...wasn't??? can't tell if that's the case because it does seem like an external debugging tool specifically for this game was supposed to be used, but either way, it does show quite a lot into the development process for this game...
remember you can press both L and R at the same time to revert both brother's abilities to jump, which *usually* fixes the glitched ability bug you can do in the og game (barrel jank moment)
well now that the beanstar piece on hermie looks more like a star now it really is a christmas on the beach. with no presents. i still cant get over that but i guess he can do what he wants (also mario slapping luigi was pretty funny)
@@pixelator5312What do you mean, the ladies wink at you implying you are paying for a sexy time and the hand tutorial they do looks a bit sexual. Also Mario slaps the shit out of Luigi like he fell for 2 hookers LOL
I was doing a little memory editing and found some interesting unused(?) items. -Super Mushrooms heal 35 HP instead of 50 -Nuts appear to be at least planned, as I found a 'cherry', apparently, mushroom item that says it heals 12 to both brothers, but when used only heals one. -There appear to be bottle items that say they raise a brother's stats, presumably early versions of the coffee, but they can't be used in the battle and the overworld inventory is hardcoded to only show mushrooms and 1-Ups. Is there anywhere I could document these? I also don't know Japanese, so I'm going off of rough translations.
19:08 So in the final game, the score and lines are actually different, as finishing multiple lines at the same time gives you multiplied number of points. Maybe they originally made this more visible.
the unused mario and luigi sprites almost remind me of the partners in time sprites for some reason-- either that or 2000s newgrounds sprite animations
What AlphaDream probably did was choose three areas that were either further along or good for a demo, polish those up and then lock the game to those areas. It'd be much less hassle compared to making a demo specifically for E3.
Seems like this game was meant to have a different art style judging by the blue eyes a lot of the characters have, wonder if they changed it last minute
Ah man, I remember playi ng this game everytime when I was going back from school. and seeing these changes from the prototype now is absoloutely mind blowing. I also remembered that I would use some nice "softlocking" glitches since I was kind of shit at this game lol. good times indeed. Oh yeah, btw. I kinda noticed that Mario and luigi's palettes are very different, my guess is that they were probably going to use normal renders instead of the arts style we knew and loved
the thunderhand and firebrand cutscenes *are* in this build, but they don't work if you hack to get the hand powers because the game assumes you already saw the cutscenes
18:58, They Probably chsnged that because it wouldn't make sense for a Living Gorila to be in a Skeletons Sunken Ship. (Well, it not like Mario Game makes sense actually, Like Fire in the Water, but you get my point.)
Since Fawful and Tolstar work (mostly) and you mentioned Wiggler being in the demo, I wonder if the rest of the bosses and enemies all still exist somewhere in the game...do you know if they have any different attacks or anythin'?
imagine someone attempted making a finished copy of this game, like using the vision and spritework and mechanics given and idk im not good at explaining things
tbh its a shame so much got cut, a lot of this stuff is really good and doesn't really feel like it couldn't have fit into the final game for the most part
I'm curious if the menu just has some code set to be disabled for the demo, or if the options just have no code yet. If the former, I wonder if it would be possible to force them open. Also, is there a download or way to play this somewhere?
Given that one of the texts says the menu is "unimplemented", it's probably the latter. And, yeah, the download is out there. Look at Hard4Games's channel.
More like the ROM is smaller because at this point in development the whole game was just smaller. It doesn't seem like much of the game itself was scrubbed for this build.
Was the music at the airport and Teehee Valley what played in those areas in the demo or did you add them like the Hooniversity music? Because they were interestingly, mostly being the backing to the melody of Hoohoo Village and Teehee Valley, though Teehee Valley is also slightly faster and that part that did play had some slight note differences. The Teehee Valley one also appeared to be unfinished, as it cut off before the B section. But maybe that was because you "exited" and reeentered the area.
Im curios. Since the tutorials for the hand powers were originally differnet, what does the rest of the cutscene look like? I know we cant play the rest of the cutscene as the hand power needed to progress is no longer progammed in. But would it be possible to look at the games code and view the doilogue? Im honestly curios to know what the rest of thr cutscene looked like.
@Skawo I'm talking about the hand bros moves tutorial at 22:14 the rest of the cutscene doesn't work because the previous version of the hand powers isn't programmed in. I'm just wondering what the rest of the dialogue is like that's impossible to see in the game. Also will you ever do another video of unused stuff in the beta version of the game? I'm curios to know if there's any more cut content this beta might hold thay you don't see in the game by playing it normally.
![[TCRF] Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga Demo Indepth Look - Gwarhar Lagoon to End](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0UBpNTHJjAU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TCRF] Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga Demo Indepth Look - Gwarhar Lagoon to End](/img/tr.png)
![FNAF vs TF2 - Episode 2 [SFM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z5b3V2-VLb0/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TCRF] Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga Demo - Unused Enemies, Behaviours and Items](/img/1.gif)
God, the lost humor in this game compared to the final. Luigi swooning over the jellyfish sisters and Mario back-handing him to snap out of it is great, wish they found a way to keep that in.
Luigi was too busy swooning over Prince Peasley to give them a second thought in the final game.
Bisexual Luigi erasure
That was very funny of Mario having to slap Luigi to stop swooning over the jellyfish ladies.
Don't worry Luigi, Deviantart has finished what you started
The developers have my eternal respects.
Just look at all the stuff they had to change/scrap MONTHS before the official release of the game.
This seems to be par for the course, at least for older games. Prototypes of older games often have major differences even just two months away from release. The Chrono Trigger prototype from four months before release is pretty similar to this. Many maps are incomplete or missing, while some are completely different. This one's six months away from release. GBA games didn't need as many ressources to develop as modern games and things could move a lot faster. It wasn't uncommon for games to be made in a year. It's entirely possible this game was too, since this demo was made for the E3 in which the game was revealed.
@@poudink5791for some games it's absolutely ludicrous how much they had to cut. The time between the release of Ratchet and Clank 2 and 3 was less than a Year, not only is 3 the most acclaimed and highest rated but the amount of scrapped content they have in the built in "insomniac museum" just showcases an insane amount of cut content
And the funny thing is that the final game feels complete and fine tuned. It doesn't feel like the game was rushed at all.
@@poudink5791 that's something that's been the case since up untill the PS3/XB360 era since you had a lot more limitations and lower budgets, you didn't have to worry so much anout if something was incomplete before release since you could easily change it in a few days at most.
Beanstar shards looking like little stars make so much sense when placed on Hermie's tree top
I really wish they kept that little bit where Mario willingly lets Luigi bonk him on the head
6:45 I like how Mario proceeds on doing a Default Pose (A frame from the Spin Move), as if the game can't find an animation of him surfing. This is something you'd expect more in a 3D game.
Also, it seems at that time the development is more focused on the storyline and progression while keeping the fights as placeholders. Wondering if that's how it mostly goes while making an RPG kind of game.
They were rushed afterall.
22:42 Mario is a true chad older brother, reminding Luigi not to be distracted and stay focused on their priorities (that being to save Peach and by extension the beanbean kingdom).
Seeing Surfboard Luigi just traverse the sea on his own face-down got a chuckle out of me.
Literally waterboarding
No wonder Bink is a skeleton in the final game, he was left in the ship's arcade for months.
Luigi falling that easily in love shows that in that Reality he's Single.
Daisy doesn't exist there, so Luigi can have anyone he wants.
One little thing you forgot to mention all the way back in the first part, the music for stardust fields is actually shifted up a key in the final game!
Is it just me or does the battle music also sounds different?
@@glitchy6449 I listened to it a few times, and it sounds the same to me. Still though there is no way to know for sure until someone actually analyzes the audio.
@@Skillaway The final one has an extra sound that acomppanies the trumpets, also in majority of the song of the final one, the trumpets are replaced with another instrument, and the bipbops at the final have like an echo added to them
so that’s why the jellyfish sisters have a pink face in the final game, it was probably an oversight when changing their palette
This game deserves more attention
I don't know why, but it's just interesting seeing the game slowly breakdown as you (attempt to) progress.
That combined with the unused Hooniversity theme gives off a really creepy aura.
Huh, it behaved differently here than it did for me in some instances. For example, the cutscenes with the fire and thunder gods did happen, the Firebrand and Thunderhand receptacles in the temples and ocean worked (though the ones that would open the way to the pipe still didn't, not that it matters because you can be Jesus and get to it that way), and the room where you normally land in Oho Oasis played that cutscene when I entered it for the first time. For some reason when I was exploring the ship, I got a scene of presenting the membership card, however the loading zone after that didn't work. I didn't find the Bink minigame, that'd have been crazy. I don't recall if I just never entered the room or it was blocked. There was one skeleton NPC that softlocked the game when I talked to them (likely because I only had Mario, after Luigi somehow despawned as a result of going in the Mini Mario hole)
Also, my actions didn't glitch out in the way yours did after pushing a gravestone, they just refused all L/R inputs until I used Thunder again. This prototype definitely has a lot of inconsistencies with itself
I wonder if it's because he already had the hand powers unlocked?
I did try removing the hand powers, and the ball still did nothing.
I just tried again, warping right to Oho Oasis and, indeed, they do work.
14:10
I like how even in this Proto Build and in the remake these two toads actually look unique and so the conversation they are having also makes sense, was so weird how the remake just turned both into normal looking toads and so the conversation also lost sense and the joke entirely
this demo has been really interesting! I love this game so it's great to see a early proto/demo be unsurfaced and combed through.
You mean to tell me it was "Tickle" before the glorious "THUNDOR" we later got?
Same for Fire.
So glad Alphadream decided to go with the black eyes for their character designs. Really makes them stand out and also looks much less weird compared to the blue ones
interesting how a majority of the game's maps and level design was finished first, but most of the programming just...wasn't??? can't tell if that's the case because it does seem like an external debugging tool specifically for this game was supposed to be used, but either way, it does show quite a lot into the development process for this game...
remember you can press both L and R at the same time to revert both brother's abilities to jump, which *usually* fixes the glitched ability bug you can do in the og game (barrel jank moment)
This is something else, I think. The L+R thing does not fix it.
they really use the mad sprite way more than in the final game
I can't believe Alpha Dream killed Bink between this build and release!
Wow, this unused Hooniversity theme is borderline horror stuff.
The unfinished music tracks are insightful to Shimomura's composition process. Cool stuff!
well now that the beanstar piece on hermie looks more like a star now it really is a christmas
on the beach.
with no presents.
i still cant get over that but i guess he can do what he wants
(also mario slapping luigi was pretty funny)
Do you think Nintendo got angry at the different Jellyfish sisters cutscene animations
The whole jellyfish sisters sequence in this build is very questionable...
yep, while it still has questionable undertones in the final game, those scrapped sprites make it significantly more pronounced in this build
@@pixelator5312What do you mean, the ladies wink at you implying you are paying for a sexy time and the hand tutorial they do looks a bit sexual. Also Mario slaps the shit out of Luigi like he fell for 2 hookers LOL
I can kind of see why they changed Peach's walking sprite. It looks fine for a walk, but using as they did in the embassy just looks weird.
I was doing a little memory editing and found some interesting unused(?) items.
-Super Mushrooms heal 35 HP instead of 50
-Nuts appear to be at least planned, as I found a 'cherry', apparently, mushroom item that says it heals 12 to both brothers, but when used only heals one.
-There appear to be bottle items that say they raise a brother's stats, presumably early versions of the coffee, but they can't be used in the battle and the overworld inventory is hardcoded to only show mushrooms and 1-Ups. Is there anywhere I could document these? I also don't know Japanese, so I'm going off of rough translations.
tcrf.net/Proto:Mario_%26_Luigi:_Superstar_Saga
19:08 So in the final game, the score and lines are actually different, as finishing multiple lines at the same time gives you multiplied number of points. Maybe they originally made this more visible.
Wow, woohoo universitys music is even more Terrifying than the final
the unused mario and luigi sprites almost remind me of the partners in time sprites for some reason-- either that or 2000s newgrounds sprite animations
The Boo Graves are intresting, i wonder if they were changed on Nintendo's orders or not, given the cross on them
there so many different things in what would be a pretty short demo of the game, alphateam did so much work on this game!
Its because they were still developing the actual game, of course there are different things, theres probably more differences in older builds
What AlphaDream probably did was choose three areas that were either further along or good for a demo, polish those up and then lock the game to those areas. It'd be much less hassle compared to making a demo specifically for E3.
I really wonder if the Nintendo cameos can appear in this demo...Like the Wario, Samus and Olimar cameos that were planned for the game but removed.
See Part 2.
Seems like this game was meant to have a different art style judging by the blue eyes a lot of the characters have, wonder if they changed it last minute
Ah man, I remember playi ng this game everytime when I was going back from school. and seeing these changes from the prototype now is absoloutely mind blowing. I also remembered that I would use some nice "softlocking" glitches since I was kind of shit at this game lol. good times indeed. Oh yeah, btw. I kinda noticed that Mario and luigi's palettes are very different, my guess is that they were probably going to use normal renders instead of the arts style we knew and loved
the thunderhand and firebrand cutscenes *are* in this build, but they don't work if you hack to get the hand powers because the game assumes you already saw the cutscenes
I did try removing the hand powers, though, and the ball still did nothing?
It's not that. I don't know why they sometimes don't work but it's not whether you have the hand powers or not.
21:15 So is that a mushroom in your overalls, Luigi, or are you just happy to see them?
18:58, They Probably chsnged that because it wouldn't make sense for a Living Gorila to be in a Skeletons Sunken Ship. (Well, it not like Mario Game makes sense actually, Like Fire in the Water, but you get my point.)
Since Fawful and Tolstar work (mostly) and you mentioned Wiggler being in the demo, I wonder if the rest of the bosses and enemies all still exist somewhere in the game...do you know if they have any different attacks or anythin'?
I will be looking at that after I do all the overworld stuff. Given the completedness of enemies in Chucklehuck I wouldn't hold my breath though.
22:40
Mario:Bro we have to continue on our adventure.........WAKE UP!!!
Luigi:Ouch.....hehehe sorry
Mario:Brother this is why I am the leader
imagine someone attempted making a finished copy of this game, like using the vision and spritework and mechanics given and idk im not good at explaining things
He is Donkey Kong and the final release is a skeleton of Donkey Kong in the remake is remove
Lore of [TCRF] Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga Demo Indepth Look - Part 3 momentum 100
tbh its a shame so much got cut, a lot of this stuff is really good and doesn't really feel like it couldn't have fit into the final game for the most part
21:10クラゲ姉妹に見惚れルイージ
I'm curious if the menu just has some code set to be disabled for the demo, or if the options just have no code yet. If the former, I wonder if it would be possible to force them open.
Also, is there a download or way to play this somewhere?
Given that one of the texts says the menu is "unimplemented", it's probably the latter.
And, yeah, the download is out there. Look at Hard4Games's channel.
The developers really weren‘t allowed to use DK, huh? He had to become skeletal in the final game and even got completely replaced in the remake
the unused university music is way better imo
I recall TCRF saying that the cartridge space used is smaller than the final game's cartridge size. Is that why so much seems to be missing?
Maybe but again stuff probably had to be cut out or changed before release so yeah
More like the ROM is smaller because at this point in development the whole game was just smaller. It doesn't seem like much of the game itself was scrubbed for this build.
@@sanpuru1969 probably so
Is the line counter in the barrel minigame used to keep track of more than one line? Lining up two rows or columns can give you four points, etc.
Luigi simping
nah, I think I'm with Luigi on this one
Was the music at the airport and Teehee Valley what played in those areas in the demo or did you add them like the Hooniversity music? Because they were interestingly, mostly being the backing to the melody of Hoohoo Village and Teehee Valley, though Teehee Valley is also slightly faster and that part that did play had some slight note differences. The Teehee Valley one also appeared to be unfinished, as it cut off before the B section. But maybe that was because you "exited" and reeentered the area.
As I mentioned at the start, the rest of the game just plays the placeholder Little Fungitown-like music. I added every other theme in post.
i like how bink has skin
Im curios. Since the tutorials for the hand powers were originally differnet, what does the rest of the cutscene look like? I know we cant play the rest of the cutscene as the hand power needed to progress is no longer progammed in. But would it be possible to look at the games code and view the doilogue? Im honestly curios to know what the rest of thr cutscene looked like.
See the next part.
@Skawo which one? I've watched all of them and none of them looked into the code of the game to see what the rest of that cutscene looked like.
The Gwarhar to End part shows the actual cutscenes.
Unless by "Hand Powers" you mean the Hand Bros. moves, in which case, uh, yeah, you're right.
@Skawo I'm talking about the hand bros moves tutorial at 22:14 the rest of the cutscene doesn't work because the previous version of the hand powers isn't programmed in. I'm just wondering what the rest of the dialogue is like that's impossible to see in the game.
Also will you ever do another video of unused stuff in the beta version of the game? I'm curios to know if there's any more cut content this beta might hold thay you don't see in the game by playing it normally.
Is there a chance that the unused sprites will be uploaded somewhere?
Probably will end up on TCRF eventually.
@@Skawo Thanks for the response!
How do you access the code from the game in order to edit it?
What was the hex id for the room behind the gate leading to chucklehuck woods
Unfortunately I didn't note it down :(
@@Skawo ok
Try 0x88
@@Skawo ok where do I put it in the hex editor
Good timing.
Mario literally bitch slaps Luigi. Dude. Even for M&L series Mario that's a pretty out of character.
It's a pretty classic slapstick move to knock sense into someone. It's not that deep.
3:01
hey we know what the unused burning statue was meant for now!
4:31
i love these designs so much.
18:58
HE IS ALIVE
21:16
the simp energy is strong in luigi today.
13:26 racist Toad
this is cool!
11:06
first
I hate the teehee valley music.
I recall TCRF saying that the cartridge space used is smaller than the final game's cartridge size. Is that why so much seems to be missing?