The State of GUARDIAN DRUID in The War Within | Beta Changes, S1 Tier Bonus, Hero Talents + MORE
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2024
- In this video I take a look at Guardian druids on TWW beta, discussing some of the talent tree changes they've had, how the Elune's Chosen and Druid of the Claw hero talents affect the spec, as well as feedback and changes I'd like to see before the new expansion launches. I'll be putting out videos just like this one for all 6 tank specs, so be sure to subscribe and turn on notifications so you know when those get posted.
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00:00 Class Talent Tree
08:44 Spec Talent Tree
14:51 Season 1 Tierset Bonus
16:20 Elune's Chosen
23:58 Druid of the Claw 
Игры
Also if you're interested check out this very in-depth feedback post from Kitch, one of the Bear Theorycrafters, on the official forums. It's long but covers a lot of important topics, including issues with the core spec, talent trees, and hero talents going into TWW.
us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-druids/1870405/173
Why do they insist on keeping us with the old style of talents like two and three point nodes, making core abilities talented, and blocking good talents behind niche/crap talents? It's almost like they're afraid that if they give us good trees we'd be too OP, they're still giving us the hybrid tax.
Yeah it feels like the entire existence of these talent trees we've been suffering from having 4 druid specs, hopefully they make some adjustments to make that a bit easier to navigate soon cause it definitely feels a bit rough atm.
The risk-reward of shifting into cat form would be great if Convoke was the mini-Nuke we were all hoping for when it was revealed, not it's current nerfed state
Yeah, combine that with the tree actually incentivizing Incarn and there's no world you'd even consider playing convoke. Would love for it to be more accessible and return to catvoke supremacy.
This video is preaching all day about changes that I 100% agree with. Great Vid. Its really sad that they took our 10% stam just to turn it into a talent point.
Glad you enjoyed it, hopefully we see some changes before launch!
i have taken to calling elune's chosen bear "lazer bear" and i am very excited to pew pew in keys
Yeah there is definitely something super satisfying about lazering down entire packs!
I recon there will be some "last minute changes" on august 26. There's a high probability that VDH gets buffed and ironfur gets removed from guardian or similar bs. Mark my words ;)
Ironfur getting removed would be a crazy timeline, I'm here for the chaos.
Maybe Lunar Beams could look a little more like those beams of white light you get in the End Time dungeon.
I'd be down for anything better than the current animation hahaha
I hope they'll move the dps talents into the middle of the tree. They could make the choice notes make you decide between magical and physical abilities
An alternative to the DoC problem is just.....make the bear form buffs linger for a few seconds after leaving the form (Guardian only) like how Druid of the Claw handles cat form. It would also allow you to use something like Travel Form to round enemies up since for some reason you are the only tank not allowed to be fast out of combat and tanky.
Thank you so much for doing the hard work so the rest of us don't have to!
No problem at all, happy to help!
I really hope they make cat weaving viable for m+. Really not liking being forced to go one way for raids and one way for m+.
Yeah, having Primal Wrath would be super sick imo but maybe a little busted haha
yeah i feel like the window of tankiness should just be 100% uptime on bear armor and health for the few short seconds its up so you can actually use it
Arcane thrash animations would be awesome 👌
At the very least just gives us the thrash animation but purple haha
@@Tactyks I would also accept this 😂
@@FlyingPig990 Nah. Sparkles! I want sparkles! ;) Also i want unicorns ... But i'll settle for sparkles ;)
@@peterpain6625 hmmm questionable. Hope you get your rainbow sparkles buddy I don't think they are for me haha
You mention the lack of AoE options when Cat-weaving, but how do you feel about bear AoE in general?
I really don't have many specs that I find even remotely interesting for TWW, but I will probably fall back to bear. Most of my classes/specs literally feel worse for the hero talents. Both heroic trees look cool imo. I like that they implemented some mechanics to narrow rage gemeration disparity between AoE and single target.
Thanks for your insights!
Bear AoE is definitely solid, leaning towards Elune's Chosen for that because of the moonfire synergy and extra rage generation it has, but even Druid of the Claw has some very good potential with Ravage damage because it both hits hard and applies a strong bleed, so it's competitive despite the lack of AoE weaving. Overall I do think the hero trees are positive for bear, I was just hoping to see some other smaller adjustments to maybe make talent pathing less frustrating.
@@Tactyks Thanks for the quick reply! I do also agree with your "minor" suggestions for improvement, you didn't make bear seem like it's in a bad spot at all overall! Although I do feel that other specs have a lot more fundamental problems. I'm a dps player at heart, that always ends up tanking haha, so this time I'm looking at promising tanks from the start.
Some other Class Tree change suggestions: Forest Walk and Fluid Form should swap positions so it is more accessible. Forest Walk feels more Resto/Balance anyway thematically. Also, remove this bs throughput nodes and buff the base spells so we can actually make more meaningful choices of utility nodes based on the situation. Like the reworked hunter class tree, atm it feels like they always have 1-2 flex points based on the content.
Thanks for the bear info.. I hope Blizz listens to you. Your ideas make good sense.
No problem at all, fingers crossed we get some changes!
Nocarn works fine for EC and Druid of the Claw will not be using the shifting talents unless the magical bear rework shows up.
Not first! Still camping at Mosa’s spawn point for the form. Fun times!
Good luck getting the skin!
I only finally got it this week and I've been farming her since 10.2 dropped. Still need Keen Eyed CIan as well zzzzz
Hey Tactyks, not really a tanking question. But does Fluid Form mean you can shift out of Moonkin to break a snare (last boss Uldaman, dragons in HoI etc), and then hit wrath/starfire to instantly jump back into Moonkin without losing a global? That would be pretty cool.
Yeah in theory you could have mangle or rake on your bars as moonkin and use those to bear or cat shift, then use wrath/starfire to go back. You're still losing a global from either catshifting or pressing rake but you save the one shifting back.
@@Tactyks Dropping from Moonkin to human form doesn't cost a global currently. Shifting back does. But i'm thinking if Fluid Form gets rid of the 'shifting back' global, then that would work well.
Raze is so redundant in DotC Hero talents. I hope they address this redundancy
Yeah it does feel odd with how similar Tooth and Claw Raze vs Ravage is.
In retail wow i have a macro to disable shapeshift->cast regrowth->enable shift. And this works like a charm. 😄
So if i dont have proc i wont shapeshift outz
My understanding is that is the exact macro that was broken and no longer works (I also used to use a similar macro in S2) as of current patch, but if it works for you now on retail maybe its a different macro or they pushed a fix?
I think the issue with tanks right now on beta is I am pretty sure only BrM has gotten a pass on the spec tree. VDH, PPal, PWar, and Guardian all have DF trees still.
Yeah Brew and BDK have received significant reworks, Ppal has received some adjustments and likely wont receive more, VDH just got reworked in S3 of DF so I don't expect them to receive any changes to their tree either, so really it's just Guardian and Pwar who are hoping to see changes before launch.
Do u think is possible that DotC will be a viable spec for M+? Looks so fun to play, but looks like good only in single.
It feels a bit clunky at the moment with Ravage vs Raze and how you play during Incarn (Maul/Raze can't proc Ravage from the capstone talent so you end up just pressing generators and dumping with ironfur when you'd actually want to be pressing your spenders) but it does A LOT of damage with Ravage and its bleed being uncapped. You don't weave outside of single target, but the rest of the kit is still pretty solid in AoE!
@@Tactyks maybe a good option for fir Tyranic and the other spec for fortify.
You said we're over satiated on rage, why not just drop blood frenzy and still grab raze?
Having too much rage only happens in bursts is what I meant, so your rage is either crazy high with a lot of procs, or very low without any procs, which feels super weird. Blood Frenzy helps smooth that out a bit but potentially in very high target count you could maybe drop it and live off the Galactic Guardian + Twin Moonfire interaction, will need to test in keys!
Bear is not prepared for TWW!
As a lunar bear I would but stop the whole Raze ordeal and take the other passiv DRs as well and spend rage on iron fur + dmg talent.
Could be interesting if that's competitive but Raze + Tooth and Claw is just too much damage and AoE DR imo to consider dropping in any multi target situation like M+.
@@Tactyksand will your build you are skipping a lot of self healing which I feel is lacking in bear. Having short raging + chance of not using stacks felt good. But I’m coming from BDK, so a tank without reliable self heal always feels terrible
Its a shame Convoke/Incarnation isn't in the class tree, since all specs get it, and other classes have similar abilities in the class tree
and if I'd watched your whole vid I'd have seen you had similar ideas to what I have for the trees :D
Really wish we could submit ideas!
I've been asking for something like Fluid Forms forever, especially as Resto. It is a shame its linked to a talent really - that sort of functionality should be built in. Maybe I'm asking for too much but I think a lot of basic rotational skills should just be baseline. Like Rake/Rip/Rejuv/Sunfire etc.
Haha yeah convoke's current spot is so tragic because the only real value to Guardian is using it in a different form, but now you cant even get boomkin form (a change I forgot to mention!) and the tree revolving around catweaving also wants you to take incarn. Fluid Form is a huge W talent though for sure, just wish it was in an easier spot to get for all druid spots (put it where Forestwalk is please).
@@Tactyks yeah completely agree! Do non balance Druids not get moonkin form anymore? I used to enjoy using that in SL with the blood sheild trinket from De Other Side, which kept me alive while I did the moonkin convoke.
Another one I miss is resto convoke which I used to use quite a bit in raids when not tanking to help with the healing. Miss things like. Reminds me of how I used to use tranquility as guardian in MoP.
Agreed with all your suggestions for the trees. The guardian tree is way overloaded at the bottom. It feels like they’re scared of letting us have fun things, so all the mid talents are a bit filler and the real choice is in the final 10.
Really keen to play Druid of the Claw.. you don’t think it will be as good for M+?
@@Peacemoon-TreeofHope Yeah Moonkin form is now specific to balance, no other way for other druid specs to get it unfortunately which kinda sucks, especially for convoke. As for druid of the claw, ravage is still a solid AoE button my main issue was just there's no weaving incentive in AoE, only in single target, but it could still be good in keys regardless.
what is the best race for guardian druid?
Honestly the race you pick has such a low impact you're okay with doing whatever. A lot of people will say Night Elf because occasionally shadowmeld lets you avoid a mechanic, however these mechanics very rarely if ever target tanks, so it's really not that impactful.
Love this video. I hope blizzard listens
Me too friend, glad you enjoyed it!
I’d rather have thorns of iron than raze with the current tree and playing chosen of elune. Raze isn’t worth it to me without ursoc’s fury.
It's a possibility, but I think the value of AoE tooth and claw from Raze is too powerful to give up even without Ursoc's Fury, though as I mentioned you can still grab Ursoc's Fury by dropping Elune's Favored +1 other talent which seems better defensively since you already have quite a bit of tick healing from Lunar Beam.
@@Tactyks Another issue with no Raze is your snap threat in AoE is beyond terrible. This, funnily enough, wouldn't be as much of a problem if Lunar Beam actually did damage and wasn't pretty much cosmetic in that regard.
ok, so why the jumping during your combat?
I have a problem
Resto druids rake a ton in M+
That's fair, still I assume they'd also rather put points elsewhere than have to dump 2 into a small rake damage increase.
Resto main here; with Wildstalker we are definitely taking anything that buffs Rake. And the class tree is even worse for Resto with ridiculously stupid choices to make. We are going to run without a quarter of our previously surefire utility to get all of the throughput nodes.
#showtooltip Regrowth
/cast [nostance:1] Bear Form(Shapeshift); Regrowth
Works fine for me.
The macro I'm talking about is one that doesn't shift you OUT of bear form if you press it without a DoC proc, testing the one you linked still causes you to shift out which is the problem. If you're interested in what it looked like, here it is (again it no longer works):
#showtooltip
/run if InCombatLockdown() then SetCVar("autounshift",0) end
/cast [@mouseover, help] [@player] Regrowth
/console autounshift 1
Want that reach back so annoying
Yeah its gonna take some getting used to :(
Guardian Druid will be like in DF they were so bad right before DF launched the dev have to give them 50% physical damage buff but they are still terrible.
Hey, you take convoke on guardian for mage tower 🤣 Actually, since they are removing moonkin from everyone but balance, you would not take convoke anymore 😞 The whole point was actually moonkin convoke
True that's a point I forgot to mention as well, the incredibly niche Boomkin shift convoke is now dead (that was really fun back in SL S1/S2 M+).
Moonkin Convoke was actually really useful for a lot of SL dungeons since a bunch of bosses just went AFK for extended periods of time to not punish the switch. Hell, Mists which is in the current pool has both the first and third boss give you a window to convoke with the first having a damage amp attached to it as well.
no one is using convko in any spec or even in pvp or pve so just get rid of it lol
Pretty sure rdruid does currently (even if its not always), and at least at some point in this expansion I thought feral had used it for a bit as well. The spell has use cases for sure, even as guardian, it just cannot compete with Incarn which is why you never see it. It would get way more use if it was in the class tree 100%
@@Tactyks i agree, i used to use it in pvp in shadowlands before i hit 2200 then i stopped
Again shaman and druid get nothing :) no response not even an eye blink.
First
Speed
so another Exp with VDH being meta ? nice :|
Such a surprise, isn't?
@@dgcavalheri huh , more like such a fail by blizz if it happens
@@mohammad-zabih winds of change 🤣
@@dgcavalheri im happy about it
Wow they actually ruined druid. Fluid form is already in the game in the form of basic macros. This is just sad. If you're not playing resto druid with 1 2 3 as your 3 basic heals + your 3 basic cat spells + your three basic moonkin spells than youre not playing mythic+ correctly. I press 1 for shred when I want to shred, I press 1 for moonfire on an enemy when I want to moonfire and 1 for lifebloom when I want to lifebloom someone. That talent is actual dogshit and should be removed from the game because it already exists for people who aren't completely clueless about macros.
The talent still removes a wasted global, something that macros cannot do.