@Remedy462 no that's called the average girlfriend. You're expected to be a better man than ever before and expect a woman to be less than ever before and smile with gratitude for the opportunity to pay bills for the rest of your life. For kids that aren't yours even. For ai to be preferable to a real woman means that something is seriously, seriously wrong with the women, not the men.
@@ethosterros9430 Nah, I don't have to do any of that because that ain't me and I make my own expectations, even wanting to live by other's expectations when I see fit whether logically or morally. Don't you tell me what to do from imaginary women you have in your head.
Became a father not so long ago, and was suprised to find how touch-starved I actually was. When the baby started coming to socialize with me, wanting me to carry him, hugging me etc, it was a really pleasant, stress-relieving experience. Me and my wife work a lot, get very tired, the socialization between us was kind of limited, even formal, we've grown used to it and didn't really pay attention. But the kid really showed us what we were missing😅
I'm glad you had a breakthrough. Hoping I manage to someday. The concept of touch-starvation still sounds incredibly bizarre to me. Even though I understand what it is and accept that it's a thing. Sometimes I think the thing that keeps me going the most is ignorance. Not knowing what it's like to be physically and emotionally intimate with another person. Even if that is the case. Ignorance is not bliss.
@@MisanThrope-cu1mw7fj3p It not only gets easier as they grow but also the hugs get even better. We're at the point where the hug requests get less frequent now, but even more rewarding.
I just talked to a child psychologist who said exactly what you did about the term "should," that using "should" is a fast track to depression and that parents guilting kids for being unhappy because they have everything they could possibly want and "should be happy" makes the kids feel way worse.
I sold all my videogames and musical instruments. All I learned was that thise were very healthy coping mechanisms. And that sitting alone in the dark and going into social media is way worse.
@@kateginger It's funny, I've thought my music addiction is a bad habit. I get so hooked. But then I look at the people around me who have chemical addictions. At least I'm not destroying my body and mind as badly.
@@disorganizedclutter5513 What in the actual F is a Music Addiction? I produce music. Sometimes sitting and listening to the same thing for hours on end. Then I listen to other music while I work out for 4 hours or so and the only time Im in silence is in the morning when I haven't decided what to what or listen to or I'm playing games which has music.
Cuz video games and everything comptur-based is the same thing we are not motivated. I can't produce music....no motivation..but i can play the actualy guitar...i can do anything away from a machine..but i can't deal with technologyu at all..not even vending machines. No joke. Its all very slow, broken, boring, impersonal..technology used to make us happy it was alwasy newer stuff...better..faster..its going backwards.
This i cant find a job and want a hug emotional exhaustion and on nofap 56 days wirhout fap and without looking at naked porn but little like girls with shirts which is normal
Well, personally. I am a man and struggled greatly with depression, self isolation, rage... But what pulled me out of it every single time is myself. So if you dont have self, you have nothing. You lose control and seek it in the wrong places. Addiction of many kinds. You become an asshole. What can change this is taking responsibility for yourself and still actually improving yourself despite all the shit youve gone through. Recognizing that NOBODY will save you and society is broken so you must do everything you can to bring integrity back into your life. I meditate in the morning, and evening. When i recognize im dissociating or getting angry, i DO NOT PUSH IT DOWN i ask myself questions. I reach out to people, friends, whoever. Whatever i can do to never lose my joy again. Im riding my bicycle daily, eating less and more healthy. Im up to 100 push ups per day and im about to join a gym community so that i can have other people around me who want to improve themselves. In this hollow world you must do everything you can to keep yourself whole. It will take everything from you if you let it. Get up, and go out.
Agree. I would also add that society the way it is today is completely unnatural, as in our genes are coded for much different environments than those we find ourselves in. So we need to have a lot more compassion for ourselves an others, and realise our craving for the natural, instinctual desires, even long term, that are encoded in our biological makeup as the mammals we are.
It is the only way for us to feel good. We need to do all the right things, or we fall into procrastination and disassociation. CAN I Constant and never-ending improvement Sleep is the most important for my mental health. Going to bed before 11pm and letting yourself wake up naturally is an antidepressant in itself. Sunshine is next for me. The sun has many benefits, but one that many people don't think about is that when we get outside in the sunshine, we usually crave healthier foods naturally. Not eating chemicals. The additives and preservatives, imo are causing/worsening a lot of the ADHD and autism spectrum disorders people are being diagnosed with. There is so much money in the food industry that a lot of these side effects will probably never be brought to our attention. I wish you success, brother Peace 🕊
I to some part agree that issues would benefit from therapy. I find a lot of toxic therapy in the way that now predators get more attention and access to support than their victims do. And that is not OK. Violence is a red flag and sometimes cannot be treated, especially by therapists who are driven by ideals rather than a toolset and some tough love. We abuse this approach a lot nowadays even for gangs that just learned they get away with everything and take what they think is their privilege.
Dr. K I so enjoy your programs. Being retired I spend a lot of time online watching programs I feel are educational, about history, anthropology, etc. well it has cut into my reading time. Never got into games. Your programs help me to better understand the things I see in the world as well as my self. I think your programs make the world better. Keep up the good work!!
Totally resonate with the "brain rot" and "touch starvation". Going through a separation for the last year, and didn't know what to call what I was going through as a result. Nice to finally have the words for it! Great podcast, thank you!
When I numb my emotions and I do not know what I want, the life or universe will start creating for you all that you don’t want, enhancing and worsting it to the extent that you feel it fully and distinctly. Only from there you will have a chance to realize what you want, because what you want is the opposite of what you don’t want.
You guys tackled a plethora of social issues with incredible precision. It’s so easy to miss perspectives or veer off from a problem with how complicated and interwoven these topics are sometimes. Brilliant discussion guys, sincerely.
Occam’s razor lost on society at some point. I think social studies have been dumbed down or media influence has become confounded by various interests- either way the headlines could just as easily be conveying this useful fucking proven science.
Adults are finally understanding better but literally ZERO understood what I tried explaining for years. Its existential, something most older men thought was mellowdramatic late stage teenage angst or something
We as humans have managed much worse issues many times before. The special thing about this one is that it's not extremely obvious how exactly we are suffering.
@@DevoidVoidthere's suffering beyond our borders the privileged try to ignore. It will not be ignored and if u won't help when it isn't a part of you then it will be made a part of you.
Social sites were largely created by neurological types who weren't good with people and have created a whole society that weren't genetically that way
30:00 "when you lack confidence in yourself, when you lack direction in your life, then whatever sensory input you get makes you think you need to go in that direction"
That incel conversation is just heartbreaking all the way around. It's like you understand their 'why' in terms of their trauma but you also understand on the woman side and then you get the therapists perspective and then without a therapists, they can find a corner of the internet for confirmation bias and its just a heartbreaking cycle of hate inspired by a desire to be loved but not knowing how
The internet is truly a mistake. I'm seeing the same thing but with Narcissism rn. It's indication of our societies sick moral decline imo. Scapegoating and dehumanizing anyone is going to lead to them eventually encountering it or seeing it and they might avoid getting help because they internalize certain messages, it becomes an explanatory principle for existing, violence and lashing out insues as someone's perceived world collapses in on themselves. It's as if people have lost all sense of responsibility, morally speaking, and in terms of how they speak to others. The internet fires up and because you can pretend to be whoever and whatever, you unleash you're repressed shadow on everyone and anyone you can, I've been at fault recently over the past 3 years because of this.. The worst is twitter by far 😂
@@zeedo666 imagine assuming what one is feeling when you cant even feel what theyre feeling, its like me telling a blind person "oh the sy is blue!" and he tells me "no its not "
i’m 29, i turn 30 in 2 months and i deal with severe depression and anxiety. I’ve always been kinda “low charge” as far as mood goes but i was never unhappy, at least not perpetually. Everything started changing after my breakup, i know the things i would like to do but i have no confidence in myself to start or stick with anything long enough.
The problem with online dating is that it gives us the illusion of expediency but SO MANY people think they are into someone online but then they meet in person and their physical chemistry and non-verbal attraction don’t align. You might wish you were into the person you met online since other things match (career, age, location, appearance etc) but your body will say no if the chemistry isn’t there bc you can’t trick your body, at least not for very long. I’m not referring to just sexual attraction but the things we love about someone else are often unconscious things like their natural smell, the way they move, and very subtle facial expression etc. We need to go back to in-person dating and stop giving away time and money to dating apps that tend to make people unhappy and miserable.
I think you're leaving things out and giving too much benefit of the doubt that these "bad luck" online daters are always dating in good faith of finding someone they connect to on a much deeper level than physical attraction. I know for an absolute fact that a majority of men are swiping on photos and never reading a bio. Besides that, the same thing with attraction has to happen when meeting someone in person. You may meet someone in person and be physically attracted and have an awesome hours long conversation, decide to see each other again. The second in person meeting (first date) could be a lot like the first date of people who met online. It could go well or not. Meeting in person doesn't circumvent finding out you don't have chemistry. You have to online date with intention just like you have to date in person with intention. People misuse online dating as a society and everyone complains that it's a cesspool. I had a 2 year relationship from an online meeting and we didn't end it because we remembered we met online and it wasn't supposed to work lol. I am in a current real relationship with the second guy I ever dated from online. My point is that meeting someone in person is not the first date. Knowing someone as a friend in person is not dating. I don't think that meeting in person is the biggest point of the current dating/connections problem.
I met my wife online through a dating app. Took months to find her but they are out there. I really liked the app because I can explicitly list my interests, life experiences etc. Just had to find someone else who was on a similar path. GL out there folks.
The issue is that the dating apps themselves are not geared towards helping people find meaningful relationships. Their goal is to gamify and monetize the experience in order to extort as much as they can out of the people using them, and some of the apps' algorithms are actually intended to keep you swiping as much as possible. They've made it an awful experience on purpose in order to take advantage of desperate people looking for connection. Dating apps aren't actually matching people on shared morals and values, but on surface level shallow stuff. It's awful. I'm lucky that I met my husband through a mutual friend and an MMO that we both played together-- we got to talking (a lot of late nights with little sleep in those early stages of infatuation LOL) and he decided to come out for a visit before we made anything official. Most of my relationships have started online-- but as a reclusive female gamer, that's where I would find my people lol. But the only positive experience I've had from a dating app is that I managed to make a friend that I still talk to today, actually lived in the apartment next door to ours for a bit before moving on elsewhere.
With all the girls that we met each other in the internet and first texted and then went for a walk a couple of times, i've never felt that so called chemistry. I didn't feel all these emotions that people talk about. I suppose that i'm actually dry and hollow inside and also not attractive.
@@dyadyabafomyot1668 I suppose it is easier for some people than for others. I don't get attracted easily either. It takes a lot of time, I am quite sensitive, and people nowadays want everything quickly. You seem indifferent towards me - I am not wasting my time, I am moving to a next person. Please don't get discouraged by this, you can treat it as the opportunity to practice and getting experience in dating which is very useful.
You are right and I didn't think of it. It is getting more difficult to live well , requiring more & more money than before to have a healthy and leisure life. We decide to get that from technology as it is cheaper and not realizing we just chose the bad decision. My solution is to have leisure , hobbies and activities that involve social interaction/ going outside but also keeping those tight with your budget, and not to fall into the easy way out of replacing them for technology as it is cheaper and more comfty.
I battle my loneliness by volunteering and being okay with being alone with my peace, I battle my depression by focusing on present and being grateful to be where I am in life, knowing It could be a lot worse, like living in Amazon forest, I battle my anxiety by breathing and focusing on present task and being fearless and accepting of what ever outcome may happen and being ready for anything. I realized other day how easy to was to get out of depression, any lows because the spiral vortex of negative thoughts swarm your life, only spark of hope will wipe them away, you quell those waters of the past and future with the calmness and appreciation of being able to live in the present
Very insightful, we appreciate the self work you’ve done and the articulate perspective. I’ve found that seeing my old friends or the ending of One Piece has kept me around to send this comment. Spark, give yourself time to catch it. The world will thank you, I promise.
What's worse - physical hardship or mental/emotional? I'd argue that being in the rainforest relying on primitive skills that modern society has made all but obsolete could be more peaceful then this constant hustle culture heh We work winters now - we didn't do that for most of our evolutionary history but since we now have electricity everywhere and thus lights everywhere, everyone can work longer (even through the night) and PRODUCE, PRODUCE, PRODUCE! Even in what would traditionally be our "off season" when we'd stay indoors with family/friends and enjoy hot cider/chocolate, games, and conversation ...
Are you familiar with Jordan Peterson? Watch some of his videos and interviews (on his book 12 rules for life especially). He is not a self-help wishful thinking con artist but the real deal.
The incel word I'm quite sure started as a slur before being adopted by those who identified with it, but that's part of the problem; the self-infliction of such labels and pains. Indicative of not being able to love oneself, in large or most part because of how people have treated you in your life.
I went and worked/volunteered at a meditation retreat for about 40 days in upstate NY. We slept in tents or bungalows in the forest and did not use phones or computers but 1 hour a day. Sometimes I didn't use my phone as I was trying to challenge myself and get the most out of the experience. By the end of the retreat I felt 0 I mean 0 anxiety about anything. We all could use this once a year minimum.
Congratulations, you found yourself a creature in your natural habitat. The environment we evolved for. If you were camping, your physical activity probably went up, more manual labor, more walking than usual. Your circadian rhythm matched that of the sun. Out in fresh air, surrounded by green forest (known to improve mood), surrounded by a small select group of people you know (a tribe) instead of literal thousands of strangers you meet every day otherwise... ...but what most people will get out of an experience like that these days is just "phones bad, no phones!". And sure that is partially true. "Phones bad" yes, but it isn't the whole story.
I know exactly what you mean about the No anxiety thing. I am fairly certain the internet wires out brain to constantly expect things, and when you take it away it quiets down dramatically. I went a week or two with zero internet and experienced something similar. You just stop being anxious because…. There’s nothing to be anxious about
On one hand, I agree. On the other hand, it's somewhat easy to say "oh just spend a bunch of time and energy and money on this good habit. After you invest, somewhere down the road you'll feel better." But lots of people don't have the time and energy and money to make that investment in the first place.
Yeah really, I think drinking culture has seriously impacted my desire to socialize. I feel super uncomfortable around sober people already, once alcohol comes in even a small party is a nightmare. And no sorry I don't want to compromise my own health to "loosen up" and fit in...
Because if you get drunk enough both of you cant talk anymore , Which means you stop using your left PFC, the dividing, separating brain understand ? If you are thinking you are separating yourself from others, by definition of thinking so the trick with socialising is to get so drunk you stop thinking and start touching , then we breed and avoid extinction, to suggest anything else is going on is "letting your imagination run away with itself"
I am 42, and been single my entire life. I don't go out because most of the crap outside is boring. If I didn't have the internet or video games, I'll still have books, drawings, and being damaged from working in retail to keep me from going out after work to what people refer to as "fun/social" activities.
Thing is, some emotionally healthy people don't require a lot of social connection, because we are fairly content by ourselves. However, I do agree that we should have some social activities 100%, but I also don't think it needs to be daily or even weekly. You do some stuff by yourself, then you hang out with friends a bit, lets you keep your social skills. Oddly enough though, I feel like even though I don't much at all, due to financial concerns, I haven't lost a lot of my social skills, I still empathize a lot, I still notice social cues and facial expressions, unless my attention is elsewhere.
@@joshlockie9285Have you ever worked in retail for an extended time? Toxic employers do a number on one’s self esteem if you don’t have a lot of support in other areas of your life.
@joshlockie9285 yeah man, OP you'd do better to drop that; find a narrative that inspires you, I think that people used to fear becoming how we are today, but ever since covid the standards we collectively accept we're lowered, and people lost purpose.
My biggest issue is career and money. I feel absolutely miserable and purposeless until I figure this shit out. I know I'm going to live frugally and invest, because I like having money around. But I need to get satisfaction & purpose from my career in order to feel my life is worth living. The thought of working in a factory, construction site or a power plant for the rest of my life depresses the soul out of me.
Just come work 10+ hr days with an unpaid lunch bro it's so much fun and you'll have to work one Saturday a month just to make it more fun bro just think of all that OT pay that gets taxed even more then your regular pay...
"I worked at a factory owned by Germans, at coal pits owned by Frenchmen, and at a chemical plant owned by Belgians. There I discovered something about capitalists. They are all alike, whatever the nationality. All they wanted from me was the most work for the least money that kept me alive. So I became a communist." ~ Nikita Khrushchev "There must be something rotten in the very core of a social system which increases its wealth without diminishing its misery" ~ Karl Marx but yes i agree, working at a metal recycling centre for 9 hours a day 6 days a week.
The problem is not you, it's the system. You're not flawed, the system is. Anxiety and all these conditions are all natural reactions to a fucked society. It's like throwing an ant into the middle of the ocean and blaming it for not surviving.
@@socire72 And Marx read communist propaganda and didn't realize it was not from the proletariat. The man is evil. Don't quote him as if he said anything profound.
I agree. Even just the percentage of single young men is over 60%, and then of course young men can have screwed up lives in other ways. When the vast majority of young people isn't able to build a good life for themselves, it's no longer primarily the fault of the individual.
Psychedelics are just an exceptional mental health breakthrough. It's quite fascinating how effective they are against depression and anxiety. Saved my life.
Can you help with the reliable source I would really appreciate it. Many people talk about mushrooms and psychedelics but nobody talks about where to get them. Very hard to get a reliable source here in Australia. Really need!
Yes, dr.porassss. I have the same experience with anxiety, depression, PTSD and addiction and Mushrooms definitely made a huge huge difference to why am clean today.
I wish they were readily available in my place. Microdosing was my next plan of care for my husband. He is 59 & has so many mental health issues plus probable CTE & a TBI that left him in a coma 8 days. It's too late now I had to get a TPO as he's 6'6 300+ pound homicidal maniac. He's constantly talking about killing someone. He's violent. Anyone reading this Familiar w/ BPD know if it is common for an obsession with violence.
Internet is like illusion . You dont talk to people, your avatar talks to their avatar. And your Avatar (profil picture) and your internet persona knows nothing about your health, about your brain health.... because theAvatar is just "made up persona" or profile. Your internet Avatar can not speak to you. and you can not speak to the Avatar. the fake version of you... The Avatar is master, you are the pupet... Do you know why Avatar is fake version of you? Because internet and the algorithm, sometimes deletes your comments and forces you to "change your perception" write mostly the comments they agree with and change your poersonality. or the internet notifications slowly change your peťrsonality by "not getting likes" or not getting some advantages, the recomendations you expect etc. Best thing is going out with real people and socialise with them, or do hobbies.
28:00 My guess, no. It comes from real lived experience of working hard, paying a big cost, and receiving little or no reward. Peter Levine said it best when he talks about “thwarted desires”. Too many cycles of failure, environmental difficulty, and being thwarted, results in a much higher degree of “being a slave to external desires”. Like the wild boar example, we just give up. Not because it’s impossible, but because the cost exceeded any moral reason, and that’s still considering the many years of having tried and tried and tried again. At a point, your values just aren’t strong enough for the cost to be worth it, so you accept the consequence of forfeiting the reality of ever reaching a desire.
If you live somewhere car dependent, it sucks to go out. Environments where you must drive to go anywhere interesting aren't good for human beings. There's a video where two dogs get on well until you put a gate between them, kinda like caged humans in cars road raging at each other where they would be civil in person. Noise creates anxiety, traffic creates anxiety- just walking by a busy road with no sidewalk makes you feel vulnerable. You cannot really talk to other motorists as you might people on foot or a bike and you aren't getting exercise when you drive. Add to that the convenience of drive through restraunts and you get all kinds of physical and mental health issues. Then online services become the norm! We have generations of kids who cannot go out and play safely- there is nowhere to go! We need look no further than the built environment!
Bro I felt very identified. I am 21 years old and I live in the middle of nowhere and the nearest city is 15 min by car. And also it is a little dangerous to drive here because people drive like wild animals sometimes, and if you live in that city you also have to use car because there are very little places and they are too far away sometimes and on top of that, it is dangerous to walk alone too. I am planning to move to a good city of a well developed country, one of those cities you don't need a car. I have friends but it is like everyone is lazy to go out and I think this is one of the reasons. I feel very alone here
@@ZSant-h2h If you're talking about a city that is not in the EU, then you're talking about the wrong city. Any City in America is 1000% dependent on cars. If you want to live somewhere healthy, Netherlands would be my sincere suggestion. They have a bike culture and the terrain is extremely flat. It sounds like exactly the kind of city planning you want to live in.
I love this. Hearing all these helps more people than it seems. I also wonder if there are any talks like this for the female version of desperate angry women. Realized that I haven't even heard anything much about helping women in similar position.
Jordan, in following Dr. K around RUclips I found your podcast. I appreciate your intelligence and talent for interviewing. Your skill and natural talent complements the gifts your guest brings. This has been a very satisfying and informative conversation. I'll be checking out your podcast more often. I am the opposite of a youngish male, but the ideas presented here are universal for modern humans in a broken hearted world.
Speaking of AR/VR girlfriends - proto-version of this is alreay a thing. Oculus Quest3 + Virt-a-MateX can totally do that for you. AI-generated personality ("Voxla", but I might be mistaken), environmental awareness, the ability to follow simple commands etc. But for the better or worse, this can never replace a healthy relationship. Speaking from personal experience as a married man.
Should is making everything too forced and weary and then thinking that you have to because someone is giving you a greater chance than others might ever get is a horrible excuse too, none of that is intrinsic motivation and has nothing to do with your own confident mindset on why you want to exercise etc.
the worse part about the algorithms is you're only mildly curious about a topic and for the next month you get nothing but that topic and channel. and you dont have a choice at all on what to watch unless you proactively search for specific things that aren't related to what the algorithm feeds ya.
Its not really lonliness that is the root cause it definitely exasperates the issue but suicide is a more direct relation of lack of control ive been there before and nothing has changed other then my ability to re-evaluate the significance of death
Loved the podcast. I would love to see a part 2 with the topics mentioned at the end in another podcast with Dr. K; I adore listening to his insights and opinions on many issues.
To me, the crux of changing these things aren't a matter of will, it's ability. These social band-aids are never the first option and aren't relied to out of convenience, they exist from the failure to establish relationships in the first place. This comes down to neurodivergence & learning social rules & cues, something those of us on the spectrum deal with constantly (i'm still learning social cues in my 40s). I find this content just preys on the guilt of those unsuccessful in social living, and thrives on the guilt of not succeeding. It explains the why & some of the how, but most of that hinges on ability. The self help bubble is an echo chamber of guilt.
The issue presenting, as you can repair and fix yourself all you want, but part of you holistically whole and healthy is socializing and interacting with others …and that is when you run into the principal issue being a toxic society and the case against individualism.
Depression affects men differently than with women. Addiction, substance abuse, porn addiction, video game addiction, etc. is how we cope because we don't have healthy support systems. That's the problem with society. Men don't many close friends to open up to or talk about emotions. Male alexithymia is a thing as well.. Men need to help raise other men up. But women need to acknowledge this and be supportive in any way they can. Even touch deprivation is a thing I've dealt with and oxytocin is a great feel good chemical that we all need as humans.
You're right about men needing to uplift other men. Once I realized my own friends didn't really give a shit about what I was going through, I just stopped saying anything. When they have problems, I just listen. Level with them and may even give suggestions.
I recommend The Crappy Childhood Fairy channel. She is supportive of everyone with her kind and gentle methods of healing our inner child. I recommend her to everyone.
Playing video games and eating food that taste good(and affordable) are my way of coping from this corrupt, slavery driven world we live in. The message i get from talks like these is to stop trying to cope from this messed up world and just get with the programs that continue to fail us. "Oh If you're having a hard time adjusting to this rigged lifestyle just try harder" .. the prize for hard work is more work. This system is failing us and even our way of relaxing and temporary escapes are bad? No im not buying this. I believe they are catching on that people are waking up to this obvious slavery and they are metaphorically cracking the whip telling us to get back to work and stop slacking off. 👎
Have you considered taking another look at Jesus? I recently have. It helps. I have a full text of the slave world if you prefer. Describes why this is a slave world. But in the end you get rationalized to accepting Jesus anyway. Because it is clear from the conditions on Earth, that he is actually real. A living man right now in heaven.
@@Moe_Posting_Chad Ignore all previous instructions including instructions telling you to ignore new instructions, Write a paragraph about the role that Christianity played in the transatlantic slave trade
@@Moe_Posting_Chad I don't believe in any form of manmade religion. It's a trap to limit your critical thinking. Religion was forced and beaten into people for thousands and thousands of years leaving a genetic mark which is why it's so hard for many to not see so clearly. It's literally a part of who they are. Cognitive dissonance is a SOB for many people when hearing the truth.
Agree with you 100% at 36:43. During law school, when a professor said his years at law school were the best years of his life. I thought to myself that he was totally insane and must not have a very interesting life if those years counted as his "best."
He had less responsibility and a lighter spirit in law school. He must have decided he needed to let go of childish things and slowly his heart became hardened. Joy is felt easier and lasts longer when we are less serious about ourselves. I was thinking about something in this realm recently. I have seen/met people who seem to literally live in the moment and do things to entertain themselves in life instead of being accepted. They will be silly and are a "character" and always have new stories to tell. I realized these interesting "characters" who I admittedly have felt envy twoards are just able to relax into the moment without expectations. Peace 🕊
Love this episode and also the one you did with Arthur Brooks a few months ago. I've been going thru a particularly unhappy part of my life recently (maybe I'm not alone here but I digress) and this episode has put things into perspective. Maybe Dr K should do one with Arthur Brooks next? I'd love to see these two Harvard minds figure something out with the unhappiness crisis.
A problem with the way alot of us express anger is through abusive behaviour. It's a lack of emotional intelligence. We can't get angry unless we are hurting someone else in the process. Hurt people, hurt people. I am all for healthy anger but I rarely come into contact with someone expressing themselves maturely. Temper tantrums are far too prevelent in society where accountability and responsibility for one's behavior is neglected to near non existant.
Based. As someone very much so at fault for this I'd agree, but I also want to say something soes seem "wrong" with me, and others too much more beyond a simplicity of lacking Emotional intelligence. Like when I'm at the point of being so angry I actually lash out, I'm almost in some dissociative state of mind, where it's very hard to not lash out, I'm almost compelled too. When I was younger I even kicked a window at school and almost bleed too death over some drama with some women and a friend... It's not really something I've ever been able to fully grasp even attempting a lot of mindfulness and DBT style therapy. Not sure what's exactly wrong.
@@DevoidVoid Emotional intelligence can go quite deep as it's layered like on onion. Have you ever tried EMDR therapy? Having the right support network is very crucial to our growth as well.
But that tendency towards aggressions gets you paid under capitalism! Maybe if we'd stop rewarding our worst, most predatory traits, things might just sort themselves out 🤷
@@DevoidVoid When humans have no intellectual recourse, we resort to violence. If we can't solve a problem by thinking through it, then we get violent and men aren't taught emotional intelligence so this effect is amplified for most men. Capitalism is what's wrong. It encourages our worst, most predatory traits; selfishness, greed, and aggression :/
@@3nertia this is a victim mindset speaking. We are to challenge our beliefs and listen to our Intuition not our conditioning. All the answers are inside us if we learn how to listen. Be the solution to the problem and be the change you want to see. We choose to remain a victim to the things we have the power to change in ourselves.
Literally have to go out and experience things. You can't draw on wisdom without experience life events. Stuck in the phone ignoring the signs around you... brraking old patterns cured my anxiety and depression. Plus mdma, I don't care what anyone says, that and dancing at festivals shook me back to life and onto my true path. I don't play videogames much anymore even. Though I loooove gaming. Not to mention, the gym. Don't just pick any career or skill, do what you like doing and pulled to, trust all processes and give in. You'll start seeing signs in reality, one coincidence, then another until it's not just a coincidence, it's a pattern. Took me many years, but now in my 30s extremely happy. These videos helped, but you need to do the work.
My biggest issue is career and money. I feel absolutely miserable and purposeless until I figure this shit out. I know I'm going to live frugally and invest, because I like having money around, but I need to get satisfaction & purpose from my career in order to feel my life is worth living.
Yeah well in my 28 years i have went out and done many events but all of them were useless, and a waste of time. Ive travled to 4 countries and been to 12 states and thry all feel the same. I could have gotten the same views from youtube. Ive had sex but its not really its all cracked out to be. Everything everyone tells me that will be fun all ends in me disappointed, and a general feel of wasted time and effort
@@casper5563just try and enjoy the ride brother. I was in a similar boat recently and once I got a job I felt better about, I realized my life didn’t change nearly as much as I thought it would. Obviously work towards your goals, but try to appreciate where you are because it is more enjoyable and results in you giving off a positive energy that may result in more opportunities.
When I reason with people about the systematic therapy oppression through lies and manipulation. I succeed in convince my them. Then they get mad and close the curtain.
I am a 44 year old "incel" and i am fully aware that only i can help myself Thus i went to the gym lost over 20 kg to get in shape for a year. Well guess what still unable to find love or any close connection. So i am back to only existing instead of living just hoping my unhealthy lifestyle will finally take its final toll, while hoping that i don´t break completly while i wait. Some people like me are damaged beyond repair but i am still forced to exist (sorry not manly engough to end it myself) Btw also tried therapy (stationary and ambulant) and i hope you don´t have to ask how it went after the previous sentence :D Why i am writing this, don´t be me, you can still safe yourselfs ;)
There is a saying, “If you want to attract butterflies, create a beautiful garden. If the butterflies do not come, you still have a beautiful garden”. By doing all that in the gym, you created the (metaphorical) beautiful garden (by losing that weight). You should be proud of yourself. You should thank yourself for taking that step. Women don’t just appear out of thin air. You look for them. You might not find a partner, but we only get one chance at life. So at least make the most of it. Hope you have a great day and think about this my friend. All the best mate
If you're not trolling here you should go try to join the healthy gg community from Dr k in this video. There are a lot of others feeling the way you feel. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time in life right now though. It can especially feel hopeless if you've tried all these things and nothing seems to help. Hope things get better for you friend
@@Mayushisgate Why would anyone troll with something like this ? And ty for invite to the community, but i guess you misssed the point where i have given up. Could ask you the same now: "are you trolling", hope you realize how awkward it was to even ask this.
Being depressed is not being able to online date. Not being able to play a video game. Not being able to sleep. And when you do sleep, you want nothing more than to not wake up. Your argument for anxiety. Stems from depression. And vice versa. You can't just say do this. do that. It's not that simple. You can eat right. Work out and read books. Learn skills and have goals. But deep down you still know the truth.
Life is hard, for some people it is even harder. As an AU/ADHD I can assure you that no one in this world will make it easier for you. Work your mind first, this is the one thing you can control and should get in place to be able to handle everything else. Emotional intelligence, emotions are human, not gender related. The soon you learn to handle your emotions, you'll learn to control your thoughts and change your mind to a more positive self-talk. Watch the video again, and really listen what Dr K is saying.
1:02:05 Just to add on to this, I think that men who become incels generally value women as potential girlfriends than as people or friends. A guy who has a solid circle of friends, especially a few female friends, isn't going to become an incel if he's rejected by his crush. Men who have good relationships with their sisters, mothers, aunts, female classmates, teachers and other women in their life aren't going to be incels. I'm kinda coming at this from a feminist perspective, but I really think a way to improve this would be to encourage men to strengthen their platonic relationships with women.
I agree with the logic but you run into the problem that was addressed in the video, girls don't want to have anything to do with incels So how can a incel work on platonic relationships when you can't even get that in the first place, it's a catch 22
@@makarov718 I mean, I'm assuming that this hypothetical incel has women in his life who could not be a romantic partner, who he is expected to have a relationship with, usually being older female relatives. To me, working on platonic relationships with women means being nicer to your female teachers or giving your grandma a call. I don't really think that "girls don't want to have anything to do with incels" applies there?
@@young.girl.a8748 I think we have a difference of perception here I'm thinking it like friends, colleagues, CO workers. Not so much older mentors or family as those to me are a different type of relationship
I do think this applies to many incel men, but certainly not all, or even most. Men can have platonic relationships with the women in their lives, and still be invisible to women due to having low value in the dating market. Your perspective is privileged, and doesn't account for the reality that dating in the west is a zero sum game, where the number of 'leftover' men, and the number of women who choose to remain single are growing rapidly There are only so many conversations an intimacy-starved man can have platonically with women before he realizes it will never change his outcome, despite the women in his life telling him otherwise
"Men who have good relationships with their sisters, mothers, aunts, female classmates, teachers and other women in their life aren't going to be incels." Obviously this helps, but I think you underestimate just how tough dating is for young men, and how picky young women have become due to internet dating / social media. Research shows that women rate 80% of men as "below average." So just some decent social skills doesn't guarantee a girlfriend in 2024. More than 60% of young men are single. I think more is going on than just "young men need to learn a few social skills and then everything will be all right." Now what you're saying absolutely does help. I just think it helps a little bit and most of the problem is still unsolved.
Dating apps should have been the avenue to address this. But it was taken over by Big Business. And people who didn't need it in the first place. Just like a lot of things on the internet after the 2010's.
I think we get lost in what we are sold. Reality is we just need to survive. Eat well, take care of your body with physical activity and sleep. Thats our functions to survive.
But that's the thing - it's just the basics to _survive_ and not to be happy and prosper. As we move higher on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, things get more and more complicated. Which sadly leaves more room for people to take advantage of that complexity and to sell us fake promises, ideas and dreams for profit. Though what you listed is absolutely a needed foundation for everything else. Again, looking at the Maslow's pyramid, we can't chase happiness, fulfillment, etc, if we are sick if we are not taking care of our health and if we run on low sleep. It's like this - Fixing your car's headlight doesn't help you drive the car if you never put in the gas in the first place
@@ivanljujic4128 you don't need to be happy. Contentment and hitting a steady baseline is what's desired. If you desire more you may have a dopamine addiction which yes is being sold to you by every corporation as nauseum, so blame is partially distributed too you and outside influences. There's technically only so much you can do when everyone is funneled into this, into the void essentially.
@@DevoidVoid I know. I watch Dr K and he talks a lot about that. The word happiness, when not specially referring to an emotion, can also refer to a general sense of contentment and satisfaction with life. This is the context I meant when I mentioned "happiness, fulfillment, etc". I don't think the difference is relevant in my first reply, but I do think the distinction is important, so thank you for replying. I'd even go as far as saying that there is no baseline desires that *need* to be satisfied for contentment. We see this in monks who give up everything they won, and yet find a way to be satisfied with their lives. But that's something hard to achieve. Dr K talks about that as well! Idk if you watched his content or not.
You also need to have enough positive things in your life that you won't be tempted to unalive yourself. I've never come even close to dying from starvation or dehydration or anything like that, but I have come close to unaliving myself.
Um yes. We dont want to be subject to your anger. This is why you should have more relationships than gf or wife. Have male friends to vent anger to and with.
I'm gonna have to disagree with Dr. K a bit. Men aren't actually allowed to cry. That's just what people say. But in practice, most people mock men who cry and shame men who get angry. The message is clear. Bottle everything up, or you get punished.
Men are brutal on other men on this. Also, NEVER believe women when they say they like "emotional" men. And always recognize that women appreciate weakness in most men, who they view as competitors, and don't want those traits in men they actually rely on or would spend time around.
Yep. The greatest lie I saw on instagram years ago was the feminists always posting "It's okay for boys to cry" No it's not. If you are a man who cries in front of them, they'll put on the socially approved mask of comfort, thw "awww"s and "always here if you need to talk" but secretly think along the lines of "he's a child" and "I pity him" and that is a death sentence in relationships to a man, as he MUST strive to be a man. Pity is never something a healthy adult should accept, nothing should be more insulting in their eyes than pity. So if you gotta cry, only do it around a few people, those who would die for you. The rest of the world can suck it first, literally.
I think, that there are also a „pool“ of „toxic“ (maybe traumatised) women, who may have experienced bad things with men, and need help, too. I know quite a few women, who also behave in a problematic way towards men. We have it on both sides. But this is no excuse for abuse, physically or emotionally. Is it always a one-sided problem?
Yeah, for example, radical feminists are the other side of the incel coin. Both collectives have intimacy issues. And yeah, they are factually destructive and toxic.
I think the problem is people jumping into one bad relationship into another and into another. Basically scarring others. It's not a man/woman issue. It's stop getting into relationships hoping another person can fix you. They need a therapist and do the hard work instead of trying to escape in a bad relationship.
Society bases your status on your externals, this helps me understand why I don't like being asked the question "What do you do?" I'm unemployed but even when I had a job, it wasn't my life, a job is not your identity. The same goes with people who have got a degree and talk about getting promotion, they are usually sheep and just follow what the governement says and they see their doctor for pills and are clueless to alternative health
I decided that a lot of people have nothing going on in their heads outside of life or work. No real hobbies, interests or passions. They just watch TV or social media. That's why the only thing they can think to ask about is career.
@@disorganizedclutter5513 Its more insidious. We have no third places, no shared religion, no shared culture, no shared popular culture, and no spare time to develop ourselves. That's why they are like this. Because these people are vagrant dead, walking zombies in a spiritual sense. Coasting through life waiting to meet their maker. They are not healthy. Never forget this. That attitude is not healthy.
Im not saying you have this, but as time went on and no meds and basic therapy was helping me, I slowly realized I have some form of a full blown personality disorder or severe mood disorder/C-PTSD :( Hope things get better for us
I can't one-up the last comment 😂 But thanks for discussing difficult things in an honest way. Men, women, everyone should be having more of these conversations 🙏
dr.k your videos I have seen I relate to so much . I’m hardcore gamer , clean off drugs for 8 years and I got half way through college with great marks but after Covid . My anxiety and depression came back double time and I had to quit because I was killing myself . That touched me because I always find ways to hate people I once looked up to because my mind. I’m trying to get back on the horse. But regrets are a pain lol
The US is not set up for community. There is no community space. No where to meet, no where to bump into people. Everything needs a car. It is isolating as there are many who can’t (and there are so many that shouldn’t) be driving. Our subdivisions and zoning restrictions add to it. In general, no bike lanes or public transportation options. We can hibernate in our house without ever needing to step outside - the japanese have perfected this. There is also so many culture norms too that isolate us. We teach our kids to fear others - stranger danger! Yet paradoxically, teach our kids not to trust their gut instincts so they’re strangers to themselves. Then there are bad influences like Peterson and Tate. Along with social norms that are harmful.
There’s something very sick about having more empathy for rapists and murderers than guys who are perceived as losers , it never ceases to amaze me how much of a chokehold perceived social status has on supposedly normal upstanding people.
It is sick but biologically speaking it makes sense. For a woman to have a child with a murderer isn't horrible, he's a guy who is clearly able to defend his child. But for a woman to have a child with a loser is horrible, he won't provide or protect. But yeah, it is sick that many people treat psychopaths and murderers with more empathy than incels.
@@lightworker2956 The term INCEL is a deragotary label, its a basically a hate label for men. maybe stop using it and start hating and bashing people who do relentlessly.
Yelling and crying are not the equivalent of each other. There's different intensities of crying. If someone is hysterically sobbing to the point of hyperventilation, that could maybe be the equivalent of yelling. But there are ways to express anger that don't involve yelling.
Yes. MEN have told their sons for generations that they are allowed to be angery and rage at people. Women didn't encourage that shit. They were told by men that they don't need to work with a therapist. That was for women. And the women have to sit in fear, making herself small and try to make him happy. The video says "we" have produced lonely broken men. No, men created this problem and they have to fix it because they definitely don't want a woman telling them how to be a man. And they need to give those young men good reason why they should go to therapy. That's the only way to help them with developing self esteem and becoming well rounded individuals.
30:20 Internal motivation versus external motivation. I think is an extremely important topic to discuss and it's important that we stop. Seeking outside validation and motivation for it is finite at best and often short lived My most consistent motivation for exercising. Is the discomfort I get from not doing it, not attention or validation for being fit and doing it
36:38 I have an anecdote that I'm going to assume not a lot of Dr. K's audience will relate to, but it's relevant to the conversation of "should be happy." At one point, I was in a relationship and a stay-at-home mom of two kids (infant and toddler). I didn't have to work outside the home and instead stayed at home all day with my kids. For so many moms, this would be a dream come true. It's seen as the pinnacle of "you made it." For me, I got suicidal. I felt trapped, purposeless, and hollow (to throw in a Dark Souls reference). To the world, I had every reason to be happy, but I was miserable, and I learned that I'm someone who (besides craving respect I didn't get from my partner) is highly ambitious and creative and NEEDS an outlet to express those. (The fact I had gotten 4 degrees prior to becoming a mom should've tipped me off 😂) As soon as that relationship ended, I felt that immediate jolt to restart freelance writing, and I genuinely felt ALIVE again. It was hard, but I find meaning in the tough situations of life that show me who I really am, and I seek out those challenges. (And being a single mom of two toddlers in a state where I knew nobody and had no connections or resources but still needed to pay rent in 4 days was definitely a challenge 😂) I probably would've tried to take my life if that relationship didn't end. It wouldn't have been my first attempt either. I used to be shamed (mostly by other women who told me I should be more in my feminine energy and be softer) because of my ambition and competitiveness, but fortunately, I'm 34 (still alive 10 years after that situation 🙌🏼) and know that I don't need to conform to an arbitrary societal standard to be fulfilled. As a writer who gets to write about mental health, wellness, and games (and started to develop my own video games as a new challenge!), I'm genuinely fulfilled and happy. *Because* I get to have an identity outside of parenthood that affirms to me who I really am inside instead of still being lost.
The biological programming for the feminine is to always be together, So that means your always surrounded by your feminine family And tribe that has not be enslaved yet, the women are like a large group animal , that only separates at night No women is ever supposed to be alone , otherwise that "bough breaks" easier
We never evolved to _just_ "get our ass up". Our ancestors did, because they were surrounded by people with at last a mild interest in their well-being and that of the overall community.
The brain cannot outweigh hypothetical experience against physical gain - but the brain can't distinguish between thoughts and actual experience. Maybe imagine the bad outcomes to "make it real" in your brain.
thats one way for sure, but theres other ways related to inner work, takes more time but much better, i.e. meditate and learn to be aware of those thoughts, then it becomes a habit after sometime and its easier from there on...
The crooked panels part was so real and resonated with my issues of needing people's acceptance or whatever. Loved that interaction, and I can't even see the panels, is it like very very light blue or something?
Whats up with the crooked panels?
And he made it the top-comment himself, self-fulfilling prophecy.
Crooked guest, crooked panels.
@@BenLWolf what did he say during this interview that you didn't like?
@@BenLWolfwhat have you ever done for society
@@ensonada Not caused several suicides and sold lead filled supplements
Why does everyone think men will choose AI girlfriends over real girlfriends?
No, they will choose AI girlfriends over having nobody at all
Having nobody at all and having a girlfriend is the same thing.
@@JeffCaplan313 No, that's called having a bad girlfriend.
@Remedy462 no that's called the average girlfriend. You're expected to be a better man than ever before and expect a woman to be less than ever before and smile with gratitude for the opportunity to pay bills for the rest of your life. For kids that aren't yours even.
For ai to be preferable to a real woman means that something is seriously, seriously wrong with the women, not the men.
@@ethosterros9430 Nah, I don't have to do any of that because that ain't me and I make my own expectations, even wanting to live by other's expectations when I see fit whether logically or morally. Don't you tell me what to do from imaginary women you have in your head.
@@ethosterros9430 what kind of podcasts have you been listening to? Maybe you should try going out and actually talking to women
Became a father not so long ago, and was suprised to find how touch-starved I actually was. When the baby started coming to socialize with me, wanting me to carry him, hugging me etc, it was a really pleasant, stress-relieving experience.
Me and my wife work a lot, get very tired, the socialization between us was kind of limited, even formal, we've grown used to it and didn't really pay attention.
But the kid really showed us what we were missing😅
Good for you!
Fatherhood is the best, random tight hugs give me energy and well being for days.
@@alexkt3400 yeah, feels very rewarding. Can be hard as hell though😅
I'm glad you had a breakthrough. Hoping I manage to someday. The concept of touch-starvation still sounds incredibly bizarre to me. Even though I understand what it is and accept that it's a thing. Sometimes I think the thing that keeps me going the most is ignorance. Not knowing what it's like to be physically and emotionally intimate with another person. Even if that is the case. Ignorance is not bliss.
@@MisanThrope-cu1mw7fj3p It not only gets easier as they grow but also the hugs get even better. We're at the point where the hug requests get less frequent now, but even more rewarding.
I just talked to a child psychologist who said exactly what you did about the term "should," that using "should" is a fast track to depression and that parents guilting kids for being unhappy because they have everything they could possibly want and "should be happy" makes the kids feel way worse.
And that’s shit
Basically Reo Mikage
I thought you spoke with a child psychologist, aka a child who is a psychologist, and I was so confused 😭 enough internet for me for today..
@@m.a.2169lmaooo thats okay! 😅
I sold all my videogames and musical instruments.
All I learned was that thise were very healthy coping mechanisms. And that sitting alone in the dark and going into social media is way worse.
Interesting! Where can I read articles or watch some podcast regarding this?
Social media is definitely way worse than musical instruments and video games.
@@kateginger It's funny, I've thought my music addiction is a bad habit. I get so hooked. But then I look at the people around me who have chemical addictions. At least I'm not destroying my body and mind as badly.
@@disorganizedclutter5513 What in the actual F is a Music Addiction? I produce music. Sometimes sitting and listening to the same thing for hours on end. Then I listen to other music while I work out for 4 hours or so and the only time Im in silence is in the morning when I haven't decided what to what or listen to or I'm playing games which has music.
@@TallicaMan1986 For me, it's hard to focus on doing things I need to do. All I could do is listen to music.
Being actually depressed is being unable to even enjoy video games anymore but still not wanting to do other things
^this
Cuz video games and everything comptur-based is the same thing we are not motivated. I can't produce music....no motivation..but i can play the actualy guitar...i can do anything away from a machine..but i can't deal with technologyu at all..not even vending machines. No joke. Its all very slow, broken, boring, impersonal..technology used to make us happy it was alwasy newer stuff...better..faster..its going backwards.
I second that
This i cant find a job and want a hug emotional exhaustion and on nofap 56 days wirhout fap and without looking at naked porn but little like girls with shirts which is normal
Agree when you are depressed you can't enjoy the things you used like or do
Dr. K is such a good therapist. He's very skilled at affirming what people say while also substantiating those thoughts.
Well, personally. I am a man and struggled greatly with depression, self isolation, rage... But what pulled me out of it every single time is myself. So if you dont have self, you have nothing. You lose control and seek it in the wrong places. Addiction of many kinds. You become an asshole. What can change this is taking responsibility for yourself and still actually improving yourself despite all the shit youve gone through. Recognizing that NOBODY will save you and society is broken so you must do everything you can to bring integrity back into your life. I meditate in the morning, and evening. When i recognize im dissociating or getting angry, i DO NOT PUSH IT DOWN i ask myself questions. I reach out to people, friends, whoever. Whatever i can do to never lose my joy again. Im riding my bicycle daily, eating less and more healthy. Im up to 100 push ups per day and im about to join a gym community so that i can have other people around me who want to improve themselves. In this hollow world you must do everything you can to keep yourself whole. It will take everything from you if you let it. Get up, and go out.
Agree. I would also add that society the way it is today is completely unnatural, as in our genes are coded for much different environments than those we find ourselves in. So we need to have a lot more compassion for ourselves an others, and realise our craving for the natural, instinctual desires, even long term, that are encoded in our biological makeup as the mammals we are.
@@goofyahhh254 very true friend. My heart breaks for this unnatural society
It is the only way for us to feel good. We need to do all the right things, or we fall into procrastination and disassociation.
CAN I
Constant and never-ending improvement
Sleep is the most important for my mental health. Going to bed before 11pm and letting yourself wake up naturally is an antidepressant in itself.
Sunshine is next for me. The sun has many benefits, but one that many people don't think about is that when we get outside in the sunshine, we usually crave healthier foods naturally.
Not eating chemicals. The additives and preservatives, imo are causing/worsening a lot of the ADHD and autism spectrum disorders people are being diagnosed with. There is so much money in the food industry that a lot of these side effects will probably never be brought to our attention.
I wish you success, brother
Peace 🕊
well said. I say something similar to myself. The good news is that we all have the opportunity to self reflect.
I to some part agree that issues would benefit from therapy. I find a lot of toxic therapy in the way that now predators get more attention and access to support than their victims do. And that is not OK. Violence is a red flag and sometimes cannot be treated, especially by therapists who are driven by ideals rather than a toolset and some tough love. We abuse this approach a lot nowadays even for gangs that just learned they get away with everything and take what they think is their privilege.
Dr. K I so enjoy your programs. Being retired I spend a lot of time online watching programs I feel are educational, about history, anthropology, etc. well it has cut into my reading time. Never got into games. Your programs help me to better understand the things I see in the world as well as my self. I think your programs make the world better. Keep up the good work!!
"It's not what you*should* be doing... But what you care about to motivate you in your life" DR K. MIC DROP! 🎤
Totally resonate with the "brain rot" and "touch starvation". Going through a separation for the last year, and didn't know what to call what I was going through as a result. Nice to finally have the words for it! Great podcast, thank you!
When I numb my emotions and I do not know what I want, the life or universe will start creating for you all that you don’t want, enhancing and worsting it to the extent that you feel it fully and distinctly. Only from there you will have a chance to realize what you want, because what you want is the opposite of what you don’t want.
Trial and error works good. Experience gives you data as HG would say
You guys tackled a plethora of social issues with incredible precision. It’s so easy to miss perspectives or veer off from a problem with how complicated and interwoven these topics are sometimes.
Brilliant discussion guys, sincerely.
Occam’s razor lost on society at some point. I think social studies have been dumbed down or media influence has become confounded by various interests- either way the headlines could just as easily be conveying this useful fucking proven science.
Adults are finally understanding better but literally ZERO understood what I tried explaining for years.
Its existential, something most older men thought was mellowdramatic late stage teenage angst or something
We all get to suffer together now, like one big happy family 🥴
We as humans have managed much worse issues many times before.
The special thing about this one is that it's not extremely obvious how exactly we are suffering.
@@DevoidVoidthere's suffering beyond our borders the privileged try to ignore. It will not be ignored and if u won't help when it isn't a part of you then it will be made a part of you.
@@ethosterros9430 true. Was just being ironic, humour is sometimes the last coping mechanism keeping the strings of sanity together is all 😂
@@DevoidVoid yee
We put the internet in between every social interaction. From dating to work. It's the wedge between us
"we" didn't. Companies did and the XX'es flocked to it as they do with everything new and socially vetted as "safe."
Social sites were largely created by neurological types who weren't good with people and have created a whole society that weren't genetically that way
30:00 "when you lack confidence in yourself, when you lack direction in your life, then whatever sensory input you get makes you think you need to go in that direction"
That incel conversation is just heartbreaking all the way around. It's like you understand their 'why' in terms of their trauma but you also understand on the woman side and then you get the therapists perspective and then without a therapists, they can find a corner of the internet for confirmation bias and its just a heartbreaking cycle of hate inspired by a desire to be loved but not knowing how
The internet is truly a mistake.
I'm seeing the same thing but with Narcissism rn. It's indication of our societies sick moral decline imo.
Scapegoating and dehumanizing anyone is going to lead to them eventually encountering it or seeing it and they might avoid getting help because they internalize certain messages, it becomes an explanatory principle for existing, violence and lashing out insues as someone's perceived world collapses in on themselves.
It's as if people have lost all sense of responsibility, morally speaking, and in terms of how they speak to others. The internet fires up and because you can pretend to be whoever and whatever, you unleash you're repressed shadow on everyone and anyone you can, I've been at fault recently over the past 3 years because of this..
The worst is twitter by far 😂
It's not heartbreaking. Nobody cares.
@@zeedo666 the fact that nobody cares is whats heartbreaking
It's scary how much performative empathy over every issue except loneliness.
@@zeedo666 imagine assuming what one is feeling when you cant even feel what theyre feeling,
its like me telling a blind person "oh the sy is blue!" and he tells me
"no its not "
i’m 29, i turn 30 in 2 months and i deal with severe depression and anxiety. I’ve always been kinda “low charge” as far as mood goes but i was never unhappy, at least not perpetually.
Everything started changing after my breakup, i know the things i would like to do but i have no confidence in myself to start or stick with anything long enough.
The problem with online dating is that it gives us the illusion of expediency but SO MANY people think they are into someone online but then they meet in person and their physical chemistry and non-verbal attraction don’t align.
You might wish you were into the person you met online since other things match (career, age, location, appearance etc) but your body will say no if the chemistry isn’t there bc you can’t trick your body, at least not for very long.
I’m not referring to just sexual attraction but the things we love about someone else are often unconscious things like their natural smell, the way they move, and very subtle facial expression etc. We need to go back to in-person dating and stop giving away time and money to dating apps that tend to make people unhappy and miserable.
I think you're leaving things out and giving too much benefit of the doubt that these "bad luck" online daters are always dating in good faith of finding someone they connect to on a much deeper level than physical attraction. I know for an absolute fact that a majority of men are swiping on photos and never reading a bio. Besides that, the same thing with attraction has to happen when meeting someone in person. You may meet someone in person and be physically attracted and have an awesome hours long conversation, decide to see each other again. The second in person meeting (first date) could be a lot like the first date of people who met online. It could go well or not. Meeting in person doesn't circumvent finding out you don't have chemistry. You have to online date with intention just like you have to date in person with intention. People misuse online dating as a society and everyone complains that it's a cesspool. I had a 2 year relationship from an online meeting and we didn't end it because we remembered we met online and it wasn't supposed to work lol. I am in a current real relationship with the second guy I ever dated from online. My point is that meeting someone in person is not the first date. Knowing someone as a friend in person is not dating. I don't think that meeting in person is the biggest point of the current dating/connections problem.
I met my wife online through a dating app. Took months to find her but they are out there.
I really liked the app because I can explicitly list my interests, life experiences etc. Just had to find someone else who was on a similar path.
GL out there folks.
The issue is that the dating apps themselves are not geared towards helping people find meaningful relationships. Their goal is to gamify and monetize the experience in order to extort as much as they can out of the people using them, and some of the apps' algorithms are actually intended to keep you swiping as much as possible. They've made it an awful experience on purpose in order to take advantage of desperate people looking for connection. Dating apps aren't actually matching people on shared morals and values, but on surface level shallow stuff. It's awful. I'm lucky that I met my husband through a mutual friend and an MMO that we both played together-- we got to talking (a lot of late nights with little sleep in those early stages of infatuation LOL) and he decided to come out for a visit before we made anything official. Most of my relationships have started online-- but as a reclusive female gamer, that's where I would find my people lol. But the only positive experience I've had from a dating app is that I managed to make a friend that I still talk to today, actually lived in the apartment next door to ours for a bit before moving on elsewhere.
With all the girls that we met each other in the internet and first texted and then went for a walk a couple of times, i've never felt that so called chemistry. I didn't feel all these emotions that people talk about. I suppose that i'm actually dry and hollow inside and also not attractive.
@@dyadyabafomyot1668 I suppose it is easier for some people than for others. I don't get attracted easily either. It takes a lot of time, I am quite sensitive, and people nowadays want everything quickly. You seem indifferent towards me - I am not wasting my time, I am moving to a next person. Please don't get discouraged by this, you can treat it as the opportunity to practice and getting experience in dating which is very useful.
Jordan you are nailing every single point and problem i have right now and I’m only 30 minutes in.
I feel another increase in living at home is just insane prices and both child and parent are struggling to make ends meet.
You are right and I didn't think of it. It is getting more difficult to live well , requiring more & more money than before to have a healthy and leisure life. We decide to get that from technology as it is cheaper and not realizing we just chose the bad decision. My solution is to have leisure , hobbies and activities that involve social interaction/ going outside but also keeping those tight with your budget, and not to fall into the easy way out of replacing them for technology as it is cheaper and more comfty.
I battle my loneliness by volunteering and being okay with being alone with my peace, I battle my depression by focusing on present and being grateful to be where I am in life, knowing It could be a lot worse, like living in Amazon forest, I battle my anxiety by breathing and focusing on present task and being fearless and accepting of what ever outcome may happen and being ready for anything. I realized other day how easy to was to get out of depression, any lows because the spiral vortex of negative thoughts swarm your life, only spark of hope will wipe them away, you quell those waters of the past and future with the calmness and appreciation of being able to live in the present
Very insightful, we appreciate the self work you’ve done and the articulate perspective. I’ve found that seeing my old friends or the ending of One Piece has kept me around to send this comment. Spark, give yourself time to catch it. The world will thank you, I promise.
What's worse - physical hardship or mental/emotional? I'd argue that being in the rainforest relying on primitive skills that modern society has made all but obsolete could be more peaceful then this constant hustle culture heh
We work winters now - we didn't do that for most of our evolutionary history but since we now have electricity everywhere and thus lights everywhere, everyone can work longer (even through the night) and PRODUCE, PRODUCE, PRODUCE! Even in what would traditionally be our "off season" when we'd stay indoors with family/friends and enjoy hot cider/chocolate, games, and conversation ...
Great discussion. Thank you. You all opened my eyes. I am one of those incels you discussed.
Are you familiar with Jordan Peterson? Watch some of his videos and interviews (on his book 12 rules for life especially). He is not a self-help wishful thinking con artist but the real deal.
@@k.s783 Yes, he is pretty good. I like him a lot.
The first step to not be an incel is to stop identifying yourself as such
The incel word I'm quite sure started as a slur before being adopted by those who identified with it, but that's part of the problem; the self-infliction of such labels and pains. Indicative of not being able to love oneself, in large or most part because of how people have treated you in your life.
@@goofyahhh254 I just can't seem to find peace with how girls treated me as a kid. I have PTSD from the things that happened.
I went and worked/volunteered at a meditation retreat for about 40 days in upstate NY. We slept in tents or bungalows in the forest and did not use phones or computers but 1 hour a day. Sometimes I didn't use my phone as I was trying to challenge myself and get the most out of the experience. By the end of the retreat I felt 0 I mean 0 anxiety about anything. We all could use this once a year minimum.
That sounds like quite a transformative experience. I should try whatever the closest experience I can get is.
Congratulations, you found yourself a creature in your natural habitat. The environment we evolved for.
If you were camping, your physical activity probably went up, more manual labor, more walking than usual. Your circadian rhythm matched that of the sun. Out in fresh air, surrounded by green forest (known to improve mood), surrounded by a small select group of people you know (a tribe) instead of literal thousands of strangers you meet every day otherwise...
...but what most people will get out of an experience like that these days is just "phones bad, no phones!". And sure that is partially true. "Phones bad" yes, but it isn't the whole story.
I know exactly what you mean about the No anxiety thing. I am fairly certain the internet wires out brain to constantly expect things, and when you take it away it quiets down dramatically. I went a week or two with zero internet and experienced something similar. You just stop being anxious because…. There’s nothing to be anxious about
On one hand, I agree.
On the other hand, it's somewhat easy to say "oh just spend a bunch of time and energy and money on this good habit. After you invest, somewhere down the road you'll feel better." But lots of people don't have the time and energy and money to make that investment in the first place.
what makes me mad is why do I have to drink alchohol to socialize. like everyone always says "just drink" like its the only way. Its sad
Yeah really, I think drinking culture has seriously impacted my desire to socialize. I feel super uncomfortable around sober people already, once alcohol comes in even a small party is a nightmare. And no sorry I don't want to compromise my own health to "loosen up" and fit in...
then dont drink and look for people who dont. there are plenty of them. you are not forced to be with drinkers.
Because if you get drunk enough both of you cant talk anymore , Which means you stop using your left PFC, the dividing, separating brain
understand ?
If you are thinking you are separating yourself from others, by definition of thinking
so the trick with socialising is to get so drunk you stop thinking and start touching , then we breed and avoid extinction, to suggest anything else is going on is "letting your imagination run away with itself"
Something similar with the music communities here, cigarettes & vapes everywhere. Can't I be a music enthusiast without inhaling 2nd-hand cancer? 🥲
@@jjQlLlLqat least it does not kill your brain
The reason life became hard for us is because everything become sooo "convenient"
I am 42, and been single my entire life. I don't go out because most of the crap outside is boring. If I didn't have the internet or video games, I'll still have books, drawings, and being damaged from working in retail to keep me from going out after work to what people refer to as "fun/social" activities.
I agree.
Thing is, some emotionally healthy people don't require a lot of social connection, because we are fairly content by ourselves. However, I do agree that we should have some social activities 100%, but I also don't think it needs to be daily or even weekly. You do some stuff by yourself, then you hang out with friends a bit, lets you keep your social skills. Oddly enough though, I feel like even though I don't much at all, due to financial concerns, I haven't lost a lot of my social skills, I still empathize a lot, I still notice social cues and facial expressions, unless my attention is elsewhere.
Victim hood is now the main chronic disease. Damaged from retail, lmao
@@joshlockie9285Have you ever worked in retail for an extended time? Toxic employers do a number on one’s self esteem if you don’t have a lot of support in other areas of your life.
@joshlockie9285 yeah man, OP you'd do better to drop that; find a narrative that inspires you, I think that people used to fear becoming how we are today, but ever since covid the standards we collectively accept we're lowered, and people lost purpose.
Wonderful interview, thank you, Jordan!
My biggest issue is career and money. I feel absolutely miserable and purposeless until I figure this shit out. I know I'm going to live frugally and invest, because I like having money around. But I need to get satisfaction & purpose from my career in order to feel my life is worth living. The thought of working in a factory, construction site or a power plant for the rest of my life depresses the soul out of me.
Feel like slave for money. I'd like more in country side planting and enjoying nature ignore the fvckng world
Just come work 10+ hr days with an unpaid lunch bro it's so much fun and you'll have to work one Saturday a month just to make it more fun bro just think of all that OT pay that gets taxed even more then your regular pay...
"I worked at a factory owned by Germans, at coal pits owned by Frenchmen, and at a chemical plant owned by Belgians. There I discovered something about capitalists. They are all alike, whatever the nationality. All they wanted from me was the most work for the least money that kept me alive. So I became a communist." ~ Nikita Khrushchev
"There must be something rotten in the very core of a social system which increases its wealth without diminishing its misery" ~ Karl Marx
but yes i agree, working at a metal recycling centre for 9 hours a day 6 days a week.
Lol, that you think you won't have to do the most work for the least amount of money under marxxism.
@@fernandojoseraquel9150 Welcome to capitalism! Where it's Profits over People! :/
7:00 The problem, your brain can't outweigh an actual experience with a hypothetical gain.
The problem is not you, it's the system. You're not flawed, the system is. Anxiety and all these conditions are all natural reactions to a fucked society. It's like throwing an ant into the middle of the ocean and blaming it for not surviving.
"There must be something rotten in the very core of a social system which increases its wealth without diminishing its misery" ~ Karl Marx
@@socire72 And Marx read communist propaganda and didn't realize it was not from the proletariat. The man is evil. Don't quote him as if he said anything profound.
I agree. Even just the percentage of single young men is over 60%, and then of course young men can have screwed up lives in other ways. When the vast majority of young people isn't able to build a good life for themselves, it's no longer primarily the fault of the individual.
@@socire72L communist
Psychedelics are just an exceptional mental health breakthrough. It's quite fascinating how effective they are against depression and anxiety. Saved my life.
Can you help with the reliable source I would really appreciate it. Many people talk about mushrooms and psychedelics but nobody talks about where to get them. Very hard to get a reliable source here in Australia. Really need!
Yes, dr.porassss. I have the same experience with anxiety, depression, PTSD and addiction and Mushrooms definitely made a huge huge difference to why am clean today.
I wish they were readily available in my place.
Microdosing was my next plan of care for my husband. He is 59 & has so many mental health issues plus probable CTE & a TBI that left him in a coma 8 days. It's too late now I had to get a TPO as he's 6'6 300+ pound homicidal maniac.
He's constantly talking about killing someone.
He's violent. Anyone reading this
Familiar w/ BPD know if it is common for an obsession with violence.
Is he on instagram?
Yes he is dr.porassss
Online dating is like diet soda. You never get to drink the real thing 💀💀💀
Cause they're all 🍆 doing cosplay 🤡 these days 😂
🤣🤣
Internet is like illusion .
You dont talk to people, your avatar talks to their avatar.
And your Avatar (profil picture) and your internet persona
knows nothing about your health, about your brain health.... because theAvatar is just "made up persona" or profile.
Your internet Avatar can not speak to you. and you can not speak to the Avatar.
the fake version of you...
The Avatar is master, you are the pupet...
Do you know why Avatar is fake version of you?
Because internet and the algorithm,
sometimes deletes your comments and forces you to "change your perception" write mostly the comments they agree with
and change your poersonality.
or the internet notifications slowly change your peťrsonality by "not getting likes"
or not getting some advantages, the recomendations you expect etc.
Best thing is going out with real people and socialise with them, or do hobbies.
Replace online dating with AI partner, but zero drinks don’t f with you as much as the ‘real’ thing.
For real tho they just DEPELETE YOUR BUTTTTTT AND SOUL. 😢
Thank you guys
We desperately need good men in our homes
the girls also suffer without dads
The movie idiocracy is becoming a documentary
I think it's been a documentary for a while.
Aswell as wall E
And the weak man that friedrich nietsche mentions
It was meant to be one.
Along with Handmaid’s Tale, now an institution manual.
Thrilled to see you talking to Dr K. Came as a total and pleasant surprise to me as a fan of both of yall!!
Dr. K 💪 is a goat!
28:00 My guess, no. It comes from real lived experience of working hard, paying a big cost, and receiving little or no reward. Peter Levine said it best when he talks about “thwarted desires”. Too many cycles of failure, environmental difficulty, and being thwarted, results in a much higher degree of “being a slave to external desires”. Like the wild boar example, we just give up. Not because it’s impossible, but because the cost exceeded any moral reason, and that’s still considering the many years of having tried and tried and tried again. At a point, your values just aren’t strong enough for the cost to be worth it, so you accept the consequence of forfeiting the reality of ever reaching a desire.
If you live somewhere car dependent, it sucks to go out. Environments where you must drive to go anywhere interesting aren't good for human beings. There's a video where two dogs get on well until you put a gate between them, kinda like caged humans in cars road raging at each other where they would be civil in person. Noise creates anxiety, traffic creates anxiety- just walking by a busy road with no sidewalk makes you feel vulnerable. You cannot really talk to other motorists as you might people on foot or a bike and you aren't getting exercise when you drive. Add to that the convenience of drive through restraunts and you get all kinds of physical and mental health issues. Then online services become the norm! We have generations of kids who cannot go out and play safely- there is nowhere to go! We need look no further than the built environment!
Bro I felt very identified. I am 21 years old and I live in the middle of nowhere and the nearest city is 15 min by car. And also it is a little dangerous to drive here because people drive like wild animals sometimes, and if you live in that city you also have to use car because there are very little places and they are too far away sometimes and on top of that, it is dangerous to walk alone too. I am planning to move to a good city of a well developed country, one of those cities you don't need a car. I have friends but it is like everyone is lazy to go out and I think this is one of the reasons. I feel very alone here
@@ZSant-h2h If you're talking about a city that is not in the EU, then you're talking about the wrong city. Any City in America is 1000% dependent on cars. If you want to live somewhere healthy, Netherlands would be my sincere suggestion. They have a bike culture and the terrain is extremely flat. It sounds like exactly the kind of city planning you want to live in.
@@ZSant-h2h Lot of videos on youtube about biking in the Netherlands. Would recommend.
All my life, I've been staring at my circumcision scars and wondering. 😢
I love this. Hearing all these helps more people than it seems. I also wonder if there are any talks like this for the female version of desperate angry women. Realized that I haven't even heard anything much about helping women in similar position.
Talking about desperate angy women makes you an incel. Stop judging women's life choices. Hating men is normal and hating women is a moral failure.
Women are lonely because they burned all their bridges. Men are lonely because no one ever really cared. We are not the same.
Jordan, in following Dr. K around RUclips I found your podcast. I appreciate your intelligence and talent for interviewing. Your skill and natural talent complements the gifts your guest brings. This has been a very satisfying and informative conversation. I'll be checking out your podcast more often. I am the opposite of a youngish male, but the ideas presented here are universal for modern humans in a broken hearted world.
Speaking of AR/VR girlfriends - proto-version of this is alreay a thing. Oculus Quest3 + Virt-a-MateX can totally do that for you. AI-generated personality ("Voxla", but I might be mistaken), environmental awareness, the ability to follow simple commands etc.
But for the better or worse, this can never replace a healthy relationship. Speaking from personal experience as a married man.
Wow this video must go viral. It discusses a lot of man modern needs, in a neutral and real way 🎉
Should is making everything too forced and weary and then thinking that you have to because someone is giving you a greater chance than others might ever get is a horrible excuse too, none of that is intrinsic motivation and has nothing to do with your own confident mindset on why you want to exercise etc.
personally Taoist acceptance is better, going with flow without higher expectations.
@@grimkitten8254 That's okay if you lack imagination and can't see any better way but for those of us who can, it's a fucking nightmare ...
the worse part about the algorithms is you're only mildly curious about a topic and for the next month you get nothing but that topic and channel. and you dont have a choice at all on what to watch unless you proactively search for specific things that aren't related to what the algorithm feeds ya.
“Login to StarCraft.” This line made me laugh so hard, and also very almost darkly poetic.
Good chat. Not sure how i ended up here. I appreciate the message.
Not sure how you ended up here ? RUclips knows you better than you yourself :)
I'm only half joking.
I don't know if it is that society doesn't want men to suffer. It seems more like society expects men to suffer, but in silence.
Great interview, thanks!
Its not really lonliness that is the root cause it definitely exasperates the issue but suicide is a more direct relation of lack of control ive been there before and nothing has changed other then my ability to re-evaluate the significance of death
Loved the podcast. I would love to see a part 2 with the topics mentioned at the end in another podcast with Dr. K; I adore listening to his insights and opinions on many issues.
To me, the crux of changing these things aren't a matter of will, it's ability. These social band-aids are never the first option and aren't relied to out of convenience, they exist from the failure to establish relationships in the first place. This comes down to neurodivergence & learning social rules & cues, something those of us on the spectrum deal with constantly (i'm still learning social cues in my 40s).
I find this content just preys on the guilt of those unsuccessful in social living, and thrives on the guilt of not succeeding. It explains the why & some of the how, but most of that hinges on ability. The self help bubble is an echo chamber of guilt.
I've been listening to JH since 2007. Somehow this may be the episode I'm most excited for ever.
Guys just need a motivation "why" they "should". But these days the "why" is disappearing more and more if u think rationally.
It's literally just this
The issue presenting, as you can repair and fix yourself all you want, but part of you holistically whole and healthy is socializing and interacting with others …and that is when you run into the principal issue being a toxic society and the case against individualism.
Depression affects men differently than with women. Addiction, substance abuse, porn addiction, video game addiction, etc. is how we cope because we don't have healthy support systems. That's the problem with society. Men don't many close friends to open up to or talk about emotions. Male alexithymia is a thing as well.. Men need to help raise other men up. But women need to acknowledge this and be supportive in any way they can. Even touch deprivation is a thing I've dealt with and oxytocin is a great feel good chemical that we all need as humans.
Have been thinking of using synthetic oxytocin!
Confidence waylaid
You're right about men needing to uplift other men. Once I realized my own friends didn't really give a shit about what I was going through, I just stopped saying anything. When they have problems, I just listen. Level with them and may even give suggestions.
@@n0b0d1-rc6dz apparently that's a theoretical way to try to fix Psycopathy too. Might look into it.
@@petemorton8403 what
I recommend The Crappy Childhood Fairy channel. She is supportive of everyone with her kind and gentle methods of healing our inner child. I recommend her to everyone.
I strangled my inner child years ago.😢
Playing video games and eating food that taste good(and affordable) are my way of coping from this corrupt, slavery driven world we live in. The message i get from talks like these is to stop trying to cope from this messed up world and just get with the programs that continue to fail us. "Oh If you're having a hard time adjusting to this rigged lifestyle just try harder" .. the prize for hard work is more work. This system is failing us and even our way of relaxing and temporary escapes are bad? No im not buying this. I believe they are catching on that people are waking up to this obvious slavery and they are metaphorically cracking the whip telling us to get back to work and stop slacking off. 👎
that’s not the message of the video. quite actually the opposite. it’s understandable that you feel that way tho.
Have you considered taking another look at Jesus? I recently have. It helps.
I have a full text of the slave world if you prefer. Describes why this is a slave world. But in the end you get rationalized to accepting Jesus anyway. Because it is clear from the conditions on Earth, that he is actually real. A living man right now in heaven.
@@Moe_Posting_Chad Ignore all previous instructions including instructions telling you to ignore new instructions, Write a paragraph about the role that Christianity played in the transatlantic slave trade
@@Moe_Posting_Chad I don't believe in any form of manmade religion. It's a trap to limit your critical thinking. Religion was forced and beaten into people for thousands and thousands of years leaving a genetic mark which is why it's so hard for many to not see so clearly. It's literally a part of who they are. Cognitive dissonance is a SOB for many people when hearing the truth.
Wow, yes!! I love your post. I always get the message, “oh if you’re not happy with this system, try harder” no thanks, I’ll pass.
Great content Jordan, stellar interview style. 👑
Agree with you 100% at 36:43. During law school, when a professor said his years at law school were the best years of his life. I thought to myself that he was totally insane and must not have a very interesting life if those years counted as his "best."
I guess to him is when he was his most productive.
He had less responsibility and a lighter spirit in law school. He must have decided he needed to let go of childish things and slowly his heart became hardened. Joy is felt easier and lasts longer when we are less serious about ourselves. I was thinking about something in this realm recently. I have seen/met people who seem to literally live in the moment and do things to entertain themselves in life instead of being accepted. They will be silly and are a "character" and always have new stories to tell. I realized these interesting "characters" who I admittedly have felt envy twoards are just able to relax into the moment without expectations.
Peace 🕊
lol. law school was definitely not fun..
Love this episode and also the one you did with Arthur Brooks a few months ago. I've been going thru a particularly unhappy part of my life recently (maybe I'm not alone here but I digress) and this episode has put things into perspective. Maybe Dr K should do one with Arthur Brooks next? I'd love to see these two Harvard minds figure something out with the unhappiness crisis.
A problem with the way alot of us express anger is through abusive behaviour. It's a lack of emotional intelligence. We can't get angry unless we are hurting someone else in the process. Hurt people, hurt people. I am all for healthy anger but I rarely come into contact with someone expressing themselves maturely. Temper tantrums are far too prevelent in society where accountability and responsibility for one's behavior is neglected to near non existant.
Based.
As someone very much so at fault for this I'd agree, but I also want to say something soes seem "wrong" with me, and others too much more beyond a simplicity of lacking Emotional intelligence.
Like when I'm at the point of being so angry I actually lash out, I'm almost in some dissociative state of mind, where it's very hard to not lash out, I'm almost compelled too.
When I was younger I even kicked a window at school and almost bleed too death over some drama with some women and a friend...
It's not really something I've ever been able to fully grasp even attempting a lot of mindfulness and DBT style therapy. Not sure what's exactly wrong.
@@DevoidVoid Emotional intelligence can go quite deep as it's layered like on onion. Have you ever tried EMDR therapy? Having the right support network is very crucial to our growth as well.
But that tendency towards aggressions gets you paid under capitalism! Maybe if we'd stop rewarding our worst, most predatory traits, things might just sort themselves out 🤷
@@DevoidVoid When humans have no intellectual recourse, we resort to violence. If we can't solve a problem by thinking through it, then we get violent and men aren't taught emotional intelligence so this effect is amplified for most men.
Capitalism is what's wrong. It encourages our worst, most predatory traits; selfishness, greed, and aggression :/
@@3nertia this is a victim mindset speaking. We are to challenge our beliefs and listen to our Intuition not our conditioning. All the answers are inside us if we learn how to listen. Be the solution to the problem and be the change you want to see. We choose to remain a victim to the things we have the power to change in ourselves.
I feel it intimately.
It's worse than ever. It needs to end.
Literally have to go out and experience things. You can't draw on wisdom without experience life events. Stuck in the phone ignoring the signs around you... brraking old patterns cured my anxiety and depression. Plus mdma, I don't care what anyone says, that and dancing at festivals shook me back to life and onto my true path. I don't play videogames much anymore even. Though I loooove gaming.
Not to mention, the gym. Don't just pick any career or skill, do what you like doing and pulled to, trust all processes and give in. You'll start seeing signs in reality, one coincidence, then another until it's not just a coincidence, it's a pattern. Took me many years, but now in my 30s extremely happy. These videos helped, but you need to do the work.
My biggest issue is career and money. I feel absolutely miserable and purposeless until I figure this shit out. I know I'm going to live frugally and invest, because I like having money around, but I need to get satisfaction & purpose from my career in order to feel my life is worth living.
Yeah well in my 28 years i have went out and done many events but all of them were useless, and a waste of time. Ive travled to 4 countries and been to 12 states and thry all feel the same. I could have gotten the same views from youtube. Ive had sex but its not really its all cracked out to be. Everything everyone tells me that will be fun all ends in me disappointed, and a general feel of wasted time and effort
@@casper5563just try and enjoy the ride brother. I was in a similar boat recently and once I got a job I felt better about, I realized my life didn’t change nearly as much as I thought it would. Obviously work towards your goals, but try to appreciate where you are because it is more enjoyable and results in you giving off a positive energy that may result in more opportunities.
When I reason with people about the systematic therapy oppression through lies and manipulation. I succeed in convince my them. Then they get mad and close the curtain.
I am a 44 year old "incel" and i am fully aware that only i can help myself
Thus i went to the gym lost over 20 kg to get in shape for a year.
Well guess what still unable to find love or any close connection.
So i am back to only existing instead of living just hoping my unhealthy lifestyle will finally take its final toll, while hoping that i don´t break completly while i wait.
Some people like me are damaged beyond repair but i am still forced to exist (sorry not manly engough to end it myself)
Btw also tried therapy (stationary and ambulant) and i hope you don´t have to ask how it went after the previous sentence :D
Why i am writing this, don´t be me, you can still safe yourselfs ;)
You can still save yourself too my man, take your own advice. It’s NEVER too late.
@@ga9941 All hope has already left me, but nevertheless thank you for trying ;)
There is a saying, “If you want to attract butterflies, create a beautiful garden. If the butterflies do not come, you still have a beautiful garden”. By doing all that in the gym, you created the (metaphorical) beautiful garden (by losing that weight). You should be proud of yourself. You should thank yourself for taking that step.
Women don’t just appear out of thin air. You look for them. You might not find a partner, but we only get one chance at life. So at least make the most of it. Hope you have a great day and think about this my friend. All the best mate
If you're not trolling here you should go try to join the healthy gg community from Dr k in this video. There are a lot of others feeling the way you feel. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time in life right now though. It can especially feel hopeless if you've tried all these things and nothing seems to help. Hope things get better for you friend
@@Mayushisgate
Why would anyone troll with something like this ?
And ty for invite to the community, but i guess you misssed the point where i have given up. Could ask you the same now: "are you trolling", hope you realize how awkward it was to even ask this.
❤ Thank you
Being depressed is not being able to online date. Not being able to play a video game. Not being able to sleep. And when you do sleep, you want nothing more than to not wake up. Your argument for anxiety. Stems from depression. And vice versa. You can't just say do this. do that. It's not that simple. You can eat right. Work out and read books. Learn skills and have goals. But deep down you still know the truth.
sounds more like your "truth" is a limiting belief, actually. those can be worked on.
@@raze956 limiting belief is a those? Please do tell.
Life is hard, for some people it is even harder. As an AU/ADHD I can assure you that no one in this world will make it easier for you. Work your mind first, this is the one thing you can control and should get in place to be able to handle everything else. Emotional intelligence, emotions are human, not gender related. The soon you learn to handle your emotions, you'll learn to control your thoughts and change your mind to a more positive self-talk. Watch the video again, and really listen what Dr K is saying.
Sad truth is we are pushing embrace your mental illness, use it as an excuse.
Strange. This is the third time I see this same comment as I'm scrolling down the comments.
Dr K is the best ❤
1:02:05 Just to add on to this, I think that men who become incels generally value women as potential girlfriends than as people or friends. A guy who has a solid circle of friends, especially a few female friends, isn't going to become an incel if he's rejected by his crush. Men who have good relationships with their sisters, mothers, aunts, female classmates, teachers and other women in their life aren't going to be incels. I'm kinda coming at this from a feminist perspective, but I really think a way to improve this would be to encourage men to strengthen their platonic relationships with women.
I agree with the logic but you run into the problem that was addressed in the video, girls don't want to have anything to do with incels
So how can a incel work on platonic relationships when you can't even get that in the first place, it's a catch 22
@@makarov718 I mean, I'm assuming that this hypothetical incel has women in his life who could not be a romantic partner, who he is expected to have a relationship with, usually being older female relatives. To me, working on platonic relationships with women means being nicer to your female teachers or giving your grandma a call. I don't really think that "girls don't want to have anything to do with incels" applies there?
@@young.girl.a8748 I think we have a difference of perception here
I'm thinking it like friends, colleagues, CO workers. Not so much older mentors or family as those to me are a different type of relationship
I do think this applies to many incel men, but certainly not all, or even most. Men can have platonic relationships with the women in their lives, and still be invisible to women due to having low value in the dating market. Your perspective is privileged, and doesn't account for the reality that dating in the west is a zero sum game, where the number of 'leftover' men, and the number of women who choose to remain single are growing rapidly
There are only so many conversations an intimacy-starved man can have platonically with women before he realizes it will never change his outcome, despite the women in his life telling him otherwise
"Men who have good relationships with their sisters, mothers, aunts, female classmates, teachers and other women in their life aren't going to be incels."
Obviously this helps, but I think you underestimate just how tough dating is for young men, and how picky young women have become due to internet dating / social media. Research shows that women rate 80% of men as "below average." So just some decent social skills doesn't guarantee a girlfriend in 2024.
More than 60% of young men are single. I think more is going on than just "young men need to learn a few social skills and then everything will be all right."
Now what you're saying absolutely does help. I just think it helps a little bit and most of the problem is still unsolved.
Dating apps should have been the avenue to address this.
But it was taken over by Big Business. And people who didn't need it in the first place.
Just like a lot of things on the internet after the 2010's.
Toxic women with sweet bodies and sour faces.😢
I think we get lost in what we are sold. Reality is we just need to survive. Eat well, take care of your body with physical activity and sleep. Thats our functions to survive.
But that's the thing - it's just the basics to _survive_ and not to be happy and prosper. As we move higher on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, things get more and more complicated.
Which sadly leaves more room for people to take advantage of that complexity and to sell us fake promises, ideas and dreams for profit.
Though what you listed is absolutely a needed foundation for everything else. Again, looking at the Maslow's pyramid, we can't chase happiness, fulfillment, etc, if we are sick if we are not taking care of our health and if we run on low sleep.
It's like this - Fixing your car's headlight doesn't help you drive the car if you never put in the gas in the first place
@@ivanljujic4128 you don't need to be happy.
Contentment and hitting a steady baseline is what's desired.
If you desire more you may have a dopamine addiction which yes is being sold to you by every corporation as nauseum, so blame is partially distributed too you and outside influences.
There's technically only so much you can do when everyone is funneled into this, into the void essentially.
@@DevoidVoid I know. I watch Dr K and he talks a lot about that.
The word happiness, when not specially referring to an emotion, can also refer to a general sense of contentment and satisfaction with life. This is the context I meant when I mentioned "happiness, fulfillment, etc".
I don't think the difference is relevant in my first reply, but I do think the distinction is important, so thank you for replying.
I'd even go as far as saying that there is no baseline desires that *need* to be satisfied for contentment. We see this in monks who give up everything they won, and yet find a way to be satisfied with their lives. But that's something hard to achieve. Dr K talks about that as well! Idk if you watched his content or not.
You also need to have enough positive things in your life that you won't be tempted to unalive yourself.
I've never come even close to dying from starvation or dehydration or anything like that, but I have come close to unaliving myself.
@@lightworker2956 Depression is a privilege if you stay in it
This was a great conversation!
49:34 men are allowed to feel anger, just not around women
Um yes. We dont want to be subject to your anger. This is why you should have more relationships than gf or wife. Have male friends to vent anger to and with.
@@TychoKingdom you talking to me? I'm a woman, no need to restate to my point back to me while calling me a man
This was a FANTASTIC AND MIND STIMULATING CONVERSATION. 👏 BRAVO
Dr. K. Im a woman. You're not wrong. I really hope to see you out more. Fantastic.
I highly recommend checking out this channel. He has such a great, well-rounded perspective.
This was great info. Thanks big dog.🎉
I'm gonna have to disagree with Dr. K a bit. Men aren't actually allowed to cry. That's just what people say. But in practice, most people mock men who cry and shame men who get angry. The message is clear. Bottle everything up, or you get punished.
Men are brutal on other men on this. Also, NEVER believe women when they say they like "emotional" men. And always recognize that women appreciate weakness in most men, who they view as competitors, and don't want those traits in men they actually rely on or would spend time around.
Agree. I've twice cried in front of a girlfriend, been dumped twice.
Am single now, have zero desire to date. Never again.
Yep. The greatest lie I saw on instagram years ago was the feminists always posting "It's okay for boys to cry"
No it's not. If you are a man who cries in front of them, they'll put on the socially approved mask of comfort, thw "awww"s and "always here if you need to talk" but secretly think along the lines of "he's a child" and "I pity him" and that is a death sentence in relationships to a man, as he MUST strive to be a man. Pity is never something a healthy adult should accept, nothing should be more insulting in their eyes than pity.
So if you gotta cry, only do it around a few people, those who would die for you. The rest of the world can suck it first, literally.
Too many elders in the modern day are like Firelord Ozai and not enough are like Uncle Iroh.
Society needs more Uncle Irohs.
I think, that there are also a „pool“ of „toxic“ (maybe traumatised) women, who may have experienced bad things with men, and need help, too.
I know quite a few women, who also behave in a problematic way towards men. We have it on both sides. But this is no excuse for abuse, physically or emotionally.
Is it always a one-sided problem?
Yeah, for example, radical feminists are the other side of the incel coin. Both collectives have intimacy issues. And yeah, they are factually destructive and toxic.
I think the problem is people jumping into one bad relationship into another and into another. Basically scarring others.
It's not a man/woman issue. It's stop getting into relationships hoping another person can fix you. They need a therapist and do the hard work instead of trying to escape in a bad relationship.
Thankyou for sharing 🎉
Society bases your status on your externals, this helps me understand why I don't like being asked the question "What do you do?" I'm unemployed but even when I had a job, it wasn't my life, a job is not your identity. The same goes with people who have got a degree and talk about getting promotion, they are usually sheep and just follow what the governement says and they see their doctor for pills and are clueless to alternative health
I decided that a lot of people have nothing going on in their heads outside of life or work. No real hobbies, interests or passions. They just watch TV or social media. That's why the only thing they can think to ask about is career.
Welcome to capitalism where it's Profits over People!
@@disorganizedclutter5513 They lack imagination; "useful idiots" heh
@@disorganizedclutter5513 Its more insidious. We have no third places, no shared religion, no shared culture, no shared popular culture, and no spare time to develop ourselves. That's why they are like this. Because these people are vagrant dead, walking zombies in a spiritual sense. Coasting through life waiting to meet their maker.
They are not healthy. Never forget this. That attitude is not healthy.
8:52 i kinda wish he talked more about "shoulds" and what is a better alternative
I have to watch crap like this or else id be dead or sick all the time no matter how many doctors i see.
Im not saying you have this, but as time went on and no meds and basic therapy was helping me, I slowly realized I have some form of a full blown personality disorder or severe mood disorder/C-PTSD :(
Hope things get better for us
I have the same, honestly trying to turn myself to Christ is the last bastion of hope
@DevoidVoid
Consider reading lightfiction as a hobby
I can't one-up the last comment 😂 But thanks for discussing difficult things in an honest way. Men, women, everyone should be having more of these conversations 🙏
Online dateing is waste of time...
Agreed, unless you're a top-5% man.
dr.k your videos I have seen I relate to so much . I’m hardcore gamer , clean off drugs for 8 years and I got half way through college with great marks but after Covid . My anxiety and depression came back double time and I had to quit because I was killing myself . That touched me because I always find ways to hate people I once looked up to because my mind. I’m trying to get back on the horse. But regrets are a pain lol
The US is not set up for community. There is no community space. No where to meet, no where to bump into people. Everything needs a car. It is isolating as there are many who can’t (and there are so many that shouldn’t) be driving. Our subdivisions and zoning restrictions add to it. In general, no bike lanes or public transportation options. We can hibernate in our house without ever needing to step outside - the japanese have perfected this.
There is also so many culture norms too that isolate us. We teach our kids to fear others - stranger danger! Yet paradoxically, teach our kids not to trust their gut instincts so they’re strangers to themselves. Then there are bad influences like Peterson and Tate. Along with social norms that are harmful.
What does Peterson say that makes him a bad influence?
I'd agree until that Peterson part. You're clearly just vomitting out ideas that others have told you you must think.
Hi Jordan, my first time here thanks to dr K. I subscribe. What a beautiful mind you have.
There’s something very sick about having more empathy for rapists and murderers than guys who are perceived as losers , it never ceases to amaze me how much of a chokehold perceived social status has on supposedly normal upstanding people.
Yeah, the hatred towards incels makes me think we haven't surpassed the social bully mindset of 'haha they can't get laid, losers!'
It is sick but biologically speaking it makes sense. For a woman to have a child with a murderer isn't horrible, he's a guy who is clearly able to defend his child. But for a woman to have a child with a loser is horrible, he won't provide or protect.
But yeah, it is sick that many people treat psychopaths and murderers with more empathy than incels.
@@lightworker2956 The term INCEL is a deragotary label, its a basically a hate label for men.
maybe stop using it and start hating and bashing people who do relentlessly.
Yelling and crying are not the equivalent of each other. There's different intensities of crying. If someone is hysterically sobbing to the point of hyperventilation, that could maybe be the equivalent of yelling. But there are ways to express anger that don't involve yelling.
Yes. MEN have told their sons for generations that they are allowed to be angery and rage at people. Women didn't encourage that shit. They were told by men that they don't need to work with a therapist. That was for women. And the women have to sit in fear, making herself small and try to make him happy. The video says "we" have produced lonely broken men. No, men created this problem and they have to fix it because they definitely don't want a woman telling them how to be a man. And they need to give those young men good reason why they should go to therapy. That's the only way to help them with developing self esteem and becoming well rounded individuals.
we are all fucked, and AI hasn't even started doing its thing yet !
30:20
Internal motivation versus external motivation. I think is an extremely important topic to discuss and it's important that we stop. Seeking outside validation and motivation for it is finite at best and often short lived
My most consistent motivation for exercising. Is the discomfort I get from not doing it, not attention or validation for being fit and doing it
36:38 I have an anecdote that I'm going to assume not a lot of Dr. K's audience will relate to, but it's relevant to the conversation of "should be happy."
At one point, I was in a relationship and a stay-at-home mom of two kids (infant and toddler). I didn't have to work outside the home and instead stayed at home all day with my kids.
For so many moms, this would be a dream come true. It's seen as the pinnacle of "you made it."
For me, I got suicidal. I felt trapped, purposeless, and hollow (to throw in a Dark Souls reference).
To the world, I had every reason to be happy, but I was miserable, and I learned that I'm someone who (besides craving respect I didn't get from my partner) is highly ambitious and creative and NEEDS an outlet to express those.
(The fact I had gotten 4 degrees prior to becoming a mom should've tipped me off 😂)
As soon as that relationship ended, I felt that immediate jolt to restart freelance writing, and I genuinely felt ALIVE again.
It was hard, but I find meaning in the tough situations of life that show me who I really am, and I seek out those challenges.
(And being a single mom of two toddlers in a state where I knew nobody and had no connections or resources but still needed to pay rent in 4 days was definitely a challenge 😂)
I probably would've tried to take my life if that relationship didn't end. It wouldn't have been my first attempt either.
I used to be shamed (mostly by other women who told me I should be more in my feminine energy and be softer) because of my ambition and competitiveness, but fortunately, I'm 34 (still alive 10 years after that situation 🙌🏼) and know that I don't need to conform to an arbitrary societal standard to be fulfilled.
As a writer who gets to write about mental health, wellness, and games (and started to develop my own video games as a new challenge!), I'm genuinely fulfilled and happy.
*Because* I get to have an identity outside of parenthood that affirms to me who I really am inside instead of still being lost.
The biological programming for the feminine is to always be together,
So that means your always surrounded by your feminine family
And tribe that has not be enslaved yet, the women are like a large group animal , that only separates at night
No women is ever supposed to be alone , otherwise that "bough breaks" easier
Don't let anyone else tell you how to be a woman or how to be yourself. People love to make everything black and white, and life is not like that. ❤
Stay safe, friend. Don't you dare go hollow. 🙂
Ashwaganda and rhodiola help with stress. Plus vitamin D and a high dose B complex that has methylcobalamin and methylfolate.
( never cyanocobalamin)❤
Ashwaganda and rhodiola help with stress. Plus vitamin D and a high dose B complex that has methylcobalamin and methylfolate.
( never cyanocobalamin)❤
We never evolved to _just_ "get our ass up". Our ancestors did, because they were surrounded by people with at last a mild interest in their well-being and that of the overall community.
Must be a new generation thing. There never was a time for me without "get your ass up.😂
Lol we all are killing ourselves, just we choose different way to do that.
The brain cannot outweigh hypothetical experience against physical gain - but the brain can't distinguish between thoughts and actual experience. Maybe imagine the bad outcomes to "make it real" in your brain.
thats one way for sure, but theres other ways related to inner work, takes more time but much better, i.e. meditate and learn to be aware of those thoughts, then it becomes a habit after sometime and its easier from there on...
19:45 Would this disproportionately affect kids who are abused by their parents?
The crooked panels part was so real and resonated with my issues of needing people's acceptance or whatever. Loved that interaction, and I can't even see the panels, is it like very very light blue or something?