Clem thanks you all for watching. If you liked it remember to sub and follow me on twitter: twitter.com/smoughtown Check out my Grineer Lore video: ruclips.net/video/SLxBWyZIE2g/видео.html
@@Mr_Maikels it is hunhow controlling erra's dead body. In the sacrifice i was made clear that hunhow and Balls worked together to make the lotus and bring the fall of the orokin but lotus ruined their plans literally Last minute but saving the Tenno instead of killing them.
Here's a thought. Maybe both Erra and Hunhow's versions of events are correct. In the Duviri Paradox trailer you see both older and younger versions of the Tenno. Maybe someone is going back in time, perhaps more than once on a "do over" causing multiple "true" events to try to get things to play out to the Tenno's advantage.
Tyl Regor: You need my help HA! The tenno worm wants my help for what? You destroyed my Lab, Sabotage my work, Killed my tubemen, Almost killed me for your lotus, now you want my help? But if your really looking for the sentients and that Nata- I mean the lotus, I'll guide you just this once and that i have chance to kill you once more.
@@4g3nt06 "Attempts to reengineer the Burston Prime never fully replicated this weapon's power and agility." This is essentially just saying what we know about most primes. Which is that they're stronger than their "base" variants, that are essentially cheap recreations of their prime models. Shooting a sentient with a burston prime or regular now, vs in the orokin era wouldn't yield much difference... by themselves Instead I think what might be canonically happening here is primed mods, If we assume that most mods had existing primes in the orokin era that have been lost. Possibly umbral mods, void element, or effects we've never seen in the game. It might even be conceivable that orokin era tech could extend mod capacity far more than is possible now, or even add slots.
Now THIS is quality content. I do love how you are giving Warframe lore a look, even explaining forgotten or convoluted parts of the plot. Continue working on, my dude. I see great potential.
I've had an oblique theory for a while now: That Erra did die during the assault on Lua, and the being calling himself Erra now is an impostor. We know that Sentient biology can be reshaped quite drastically, with Natah->Lotus->Natah as an example, so what's to stop Ballas, the Orokin responsible for creating the Sentients in the first place, from reshaping a Sentient, possibly an unwilling one, to impersonate Erra and mind-game Natah? A piece that helped form this wild take was how Ballas acted during the last cinematic: he expressed glee, then quickly hid the expression, then as soon as Natah was incapacitated, Erra released Ballas' leash and Ballas stood up straight, as if he were an equal to Erra shedding the disguise of being a pet. This would reconcile Natah's memory of killing Erra, and the current Erra's repeated contradictions with established history. If he's basically a very convincing puppet for Ballas to enact a plan through, then he has every reason to lie to and gaslight Natah. Then additionally, Ballas provided us the Paracesis, whose function is to slay Sentients. By escalating the current skirmishes into total war between all factions, Ballas could get simultaneous revenge on the Tenno, the Corpus inheritors to the Orokin will, the Grineer who serve one or two surviving Orokin, and the Sentients. He could set everyone up to destroy each other, leaving him to pick up whatever pieces he pleased. We already know from the Vitruvian message that Ballas is a past master of the "lets you and him fight" strategy of accomplishing goals. As the man who was responsible for the Sentient project, it's not too far fetched for him to have made a new one for his new purposes.
Lets also not forget that Erra's head looks like a Corvid species of bird (such as a Raven or Crow) which is tied with the human characterizations of 'revenge' and 'deceit'.
What if ballas planned it? He wants revenge on: the orokin (forcing him to kill Margulis), the tenno (for causing margulis harm), the sentients (BLASPHEMIES, but he will use them). Ballas works with the sentients to end the orokin by planing Nathas "reprograming", then kill the tenno and the sentients kill the orokin. But everything goes his way: ballas does not let her kill the tenno, the tenno kill all remaining sentients in the Origins System to keep his betrayal a secret and blame it all on Nathas "mercy", the orokin celebrate but the tenno kill them on lotus orders witch are really ballases, the tenno go to sleep, ballas comes back for Natha (witch is meant to be his new margulis) but natha snaps out of it and returns to her sentient self... could you follow all that? its hard to say what has been retconed or not because thats warframe: a game that didnt know what it was until the people who played and loved it shaped it into what it is today, kinda like a person with views that change over time
In the sacrifice quest we learnt that Balls and Hunhow worked together to destroy the empire cause the orokin stole something from both of them(margulis for balls and the ability to reproduce for the sentients). The other sentients did not know of this. Also lotus hiding the Tenno makes no sense at all to support the place of Balls or hunhow. It was her first time making a choise of her self as the amalgam of Natah and margulis. She is her own being, neither of her past selves. Also Erra in the new war is obviously hunhow using erra's dead body.
Is the Erra in modern day actually the same one as during the old war or someone using his name? Natah seemed pretty certain he was dead, and he was quick to cover it up before she could question it. It could be the lighting differences but it looks like his colours are different, going from red to orange and yellow, and his speech pattern seems more like Hunhow in modern day verses his informality earlier.
I believe it is the man in the wall playing its games. It tried to show us the Lotus as an antagonist in hallucinations. I think the man in the wall has a reason to want Lotus/Natah gone. I'm not sure what that reason is.
I think Ballas saved him (either healing or resurrecting him), at the very end of the cutscene where Erra throws the Lotus/Natah into a device saying "end the war" he drops Ballas's leash and Ballas stands tall. This implies their master and slave visual relationship was entirely for her benefit and they have been working together to deceive her, which also implies they have a prior relationship and trust one another.
Erra in veilbreaker seems to be an argon entity due to the head it has along with the shard it got as we see in I believe either the veilbreaker cutscenes or the new war end one
Yep. Particularly the Hundow details made me think this from the start. The Lotus literally started to call him out, at which point he and Ballas dropped the act and just went with force; presumably using her to call her mother. Erra died a long time ago and not like how Hunhow is _technically_ dead.
Hunhow does not need his original body to move in general as seen in octavia's quest. Also the Erra in the new war quest is definetely Hunhow as it was told to us that Balls and hunhow worked together before the fall of the orokin to destroy the orokin for within. They let the orokin control the lotus on purpose.
@@gkarak1996 A important detail your forgetting is all sentiments you fight are in how, remember hos he was the stalkers sword in the second dream quest? And how he says he attacks in many forms?
@@Nezha_Main you forget that the octavia quest is after the second dream both in game and lore. So hunhow is basically alive after you break the blade.
It’s rumored that Ballas did something to her mind and the fact that he went directly to her chambers in the flashback points to the fact that he knew where she was and how to unplug her. However I believe that he didn’t know he would be double crossed by Era.
I don't know if your caught up with the story, but as of the last Ballas drop It's pretty clear this is a fake Erra and he's either Ballas' servant, or partner; the last thing Ballas did was drop the slave act and stand by the fake Erra's side.
@@TheArcSet I noticed this and when Ballas genuinely looked worried when Natah specifically pointed him out asking if he was one of the makers too. Eres completely ignored this and continued on which I picked on but didn’t think much about the first time around...... but you’re definitely right- something is up for sure.
@Amir Pretty sure that's not the case, or at least, there's no reason to currently suspect that. Not to mention that their stories contradict each other and Hunhow seemed to want to protect Natah, were as Ballas and 'Erra' just seem to want to use her to summon new sentients to the origin system.
I enjoy your Warframe lore videos, as well as some of the other theory videos you do. It’s refreshing to see someone who, despite the confusing and conflicting story bits, still believes in having the Lotus redeemed and not fully trusting what Erra may be trying to say. I have the same beliefs that hopefully we can have Mother Lotus back and we could redeem this flawed and confused character. It would also make for a great emotionally complicated story where it makes you think and wonder. A lot of things seem to not make much sense from what we knew, when Erra told his version of events. I say we continue on, for the Lotus! And I too wish to stab the Paracesis into Erra’s face hole, along with the Dex Dakra! Since it has the Lotus insignia on them, wouldn’t that be just a great insult to him?
@@SmoughTown Agreed on all accounts! I feel like the complex and sometimes complicated story and lore could make for a good narrative in terms of a redemption and making you wonder about even your own moral compass. Not everything is black and white though it seems to have started out that way, but turned into a tangled web. It’s what keeps me intrigued with Warframe’s lore and why I also believe in the Lotus from start to whatever finish.
DE needs to bring back the actual space mom ie Margulis because 1. It would shatter Ballas 2. We, the Tenno would have back the only person who cared about us.
Wait I have a strange feeling that margulis is the lotus as if I am right margulis is blind because of one of the Tenno, that’s why lotuses mask cover’s her eyes and when we saw the lotus face her eyes were grey
@@plate_fox lotus is basically an amalgam. The body of natah(mimic and daughter of hunhow) and the memories of margulis. Hunhow and Balls cooperated to make lotus. During the new war quest you can see that Erra cooperated with Balls. However Erra is dead. The one using the body of Erra is hunhow. The lotus is controlled by Balls and hunhow to do this. The biggest hint is the fact that she saved the Tenno by putting them to sleep instead of killing them. He could kill them since the orokin were already dead(Balls wanted them dead too). But she did not. It was her first time making a desicions for her self, not as Margulis, not as Natah, but as Lotus.
I know I'm late to the party here but... my understanding is that in the cinematic Natah stated she destroyed Erra, period. Not injured him but destroyed him. When she says he's a maker she nods at erra then looks at Ballas. She's asking Ballas about Erra. Erra realizes his deception is broken and binds her into the forge and releases the leash to reveal that This 'Erra' is on Ballas' side
About Erra, we see in the Tennocon 21 new war demo that he has a distinct ability to exert his will over others, to control their mind. (God-fucking-speed, Kahl 175.)
I find it really interesting that every time the Lotus says the phrase "THE ENEMY" she progressively shows her programming more and more every time she says it. SHE'S A TOOL lol
Awesome video once again Smough. One thing to bolster your point too, is that during the Orphix Venom event (or was it Scarlet Spear), Natah/Lotus gives out coordinates that are a hidden call for help: "IM DYING"
Your videos are doing things other Warframe content creators (that I know of, or to a good enough degree) are doing. I tried to follow the lore to the best I can but as a player who keeps coming and going and has played since it released on Xbox it’s difficult to keep up sometimes and I miss things but these videos are helping me out with remembering things I’ve forgotten and given me a new perspective on things in the lore as well. With everything we do currently do you think there’s a possibility of a theory video about what will happen in the new war quest, because there’s a few ways it could go down and I’m always interested in everyone’s theory’s on it and how the game will progress But I love the videos man keep up the good work !!
Really glad you like the video! It’s defo a pretty convoluted story at points. On my list of videos to do I am wanting to do one on what erra’s plan is but I will absolutely consider covering my new war prediction! Thanks again
I mean, that was plainly obvious to anyone who pays attention to the trailers to the game because the New War trailer shows natah talking to her mother lol. The entire point of the second part of Erra was to show he was lying also, natah acts confused and straight up questions him as he died in the old war by her hand.
Maybe the Lotus is the amalgamation of the original Margulis and the captured Natah. Or the Man in the Wall fused the souls of Natah and Margulis in the Void to save them both for his plans with the Tenno. That's probably why the Man in the Wall always says you owe me, Tenno.
you asked why the tenno rebelled. personally, I believe the tenno rebelled because of margulis' death, combined with how we see the tenno operate in leverian. I think ash's leverian story is set mere days before the collapse, as all the tenno gathered for some event (we know from the stalker lore) they probably shared stories and realized how they had gone from innocent children to monstrous war machines used to maintain an evil, brutal empire.
Like you said at the end I also think we're the ones who are going to break through to her and bring her back which will remind her why she did what she did back in the old war
I agree with you..biggest hole in the story is the orokin ‘reprogrammed’ Natah? Wasn’t the whole sentient issue that they couldn’t be controlled and overrid any technology sent against them?
Don't forget, there are 2 different reports of the Zariman returning to dock. One in which the Zariman never returned, seen in Duviri Paradox trailer, and one in which it returned with noone onboard, our side of the coin. Realistically, we were onboard, we just slipped by using Void Mode and slaughtered 6 of the 7 Executors. Ballas was the only one to get away. Marghulis defended us but ended up sacrificing herself to save us after being put into our first dream. This could be something similar.
Or, as "Lotus" is based on Margulis, maybe Ballas did something to undercover Natah to convince her she WAS Margulis. There's also the chance that Natah did this to herself so she could ensure that no matter what happened she wouldn't break cover until being triggered by the right thing, or perhaps until a timer wore out, and the conditioning, perhaps done with some fragments of Margulis' memories or knowledge (as she was closest to the Tenno), just took a little too well. It could even be a replicant of sorts, like a cephalon; due to its source, Erra could see it as the "Makers'" doing.
No matter what happens the love the tenno had for Lotus was very much real, we were her children. Doesn't matter if she was Natah or Lotus, everything she did for the tenno and the love and care the tenno developed for her wasn't a lie. So that makes me mad when I see the community talking about killing Lotus. She might be protecting us even now as we are clueless to ehat she is doing, or she might need our help more than ever. We can give our hand and save her from her inner torment and lifelong manipulation drama and maybe be betrayed, or we can stomp on everything we built together stab on her back. If Natah needed the Tenno killed, she had too many opportunities, and we are still here... Maybe in the future something changes, but if we remind the Lotus that doesn't matter what is the mask or the name she is wearing, we are her children and we always loved her, and that is all she always wanted all along... And then someone kills her and we have a new big baddy, tenno goes out of control and that's how starts the duviri paradox. Jokes aside, The tenno have no one but each other and the Lotus, we might work with a lot of people, but no one but the Lotus actually did something for the Tenno. Yeah, Teshin gave us a hand in the way he could, but he didn't have a choice if he wanted to live.
Erra did in fact died, ballas is the one manipulating, the moment lotus referred to balas instead of erra, erra throw her, and then released ballas. Ballas was acting strange all the time, like he was the one talking, the moment erra put his hand on lotus "shoulder" that was too human...
I like these theories a lot, but I think it goes a lot deeper than what you presented here. I think you are very right about Erra lying to her, and I think it is setting up for Natah's redemption, but not for the same reasons you pointed out. I think that the Erra we see in the Old War does actually care about his sister, and was trying to save her. But I think lotus is right, he died, the tenno made sure of that. I do not think the erra we see at the end of the Erra quest and the 3rd cutscene are the same Erra. One point is the way he talks, the tonality of his voice. Play the two Erra's side by side. The one in the present has a higher voice. And the part that you pointed out where Natah says, "He is one of them isn't he, a maker". For me the implication here is that Ballas made this fake Erra. If the orokin made the sentients before, why couldn't one do it again. Then about Natah talking with her mother, I do not think she is talking about the tenno, I think she is talking about fake Erra and Ballas. (Oh side not that cinematic is more proof to the theory that Erra is lying, because he claims that mother is gone). Mother says "they took away your fire". I think it is still unclear what her "fire" is though I think it may be synonymous with her "voice". The only other people who have mentioned this fire is Erra. "But you have her fire, and more". This eludes to her having some ability or skill that her mother also had, which it appears like Erra wants, something that could finish the war. I think it is what is happening at the end of that 3rd cutscene, he is taking away her fire to use for something. But if this is true, it brings up the question, who is in control and what do they want. My first thought was ballas, he clearly seems to be in much more control than he is letting on. Look at the way he smiles when natah says, "finish the war". We know he wanted the sentients to be created in the first place, so maybe his plan stretches even as far back as that. I think he wants us to fight the sentients, which is the point of Chimera, he is manipulating us into thinking he is weak and defeated, and that he was wrong. But in reality we are just going along with what he wants. Him an this new erra appear to be allies, evidenced by erra letting go of his leash when natah was thrown at the contraption. Which would make sense if this Erra was created by, and possibly being controlled by Ballas. Atleast that is what I thought initially, but I think it goes deeper than that, so deep that it is connected to the most mysterious character in the game. The Man in The Wall. He is clearly directly involved in this whole plot. Possibly controlling us and the Lotus in the Old War part of the Erra quest. Our eyes show the characteristic Man in The Wall color, and the light on Lotus's helmet has a strange orange hue. Also Erra here says, "The queen of the Aphids, with her eye in the void". Also Ballas' right eye in the 3rd cutscene appears to show he is under the voids influence as well. I think there is much more complicated things going on here that we don't yetunderstand, and I don't think we will be able to until we get more story progression here, but one thing is for sure, someone is in control here. Someone who wants a war between the tenno and the sentients. And it is not going to end well if we give in and kill the Natah. Which I think is what we are being manipulated into doing. But I do not think that is going to happen, after all Natah has been calling out to us for help in Scarler Spear, saying "IM DYING", which is probably related to what happened at the end of that 3rd cutscene. I just hope that tenno out there get that message, and are not to quick to revenge, because the fate of the system may depend on it.
Great read thanks for that, and glad you enjoy the vide. I am the same as you in that i hope we aren't tempted to kil Natah; to me she is very confused and tortured and needs some help tbh. I think alot of people in the community have jumped on a bandwagon baying for her blood, as I alluded to at the start of the video but I respect the Lotus and it is ultimately she who set us free from the Orokin and anyone else who tried to use us. She showed us the path to defending the innocent of the Orokin system and I think we owe her one for that.
isn`ballas THE creator of the warframes and the sentients? + Natah remembers killing erra, but here he stands with an shackeld senitified ballas. = if anyone was capable of creating a puppet from an dead sentient wouldn`t it be ballas? especially with eons of time at hand? so i think ballas wants power and to rule over others. first he comes up with n plan on how to use/controll the sentients. then with natah/lotus under his controll he can controll the tenno and their warframes. grineer corpus and infested are of no concern to this op army...
A personal point I’d like to share is: Are Sentients even reprogrammable? If the Orokin really could reprogram Sentients like Natah then wouldn’t that change the course of the war significantly. Also can robots with consciousness and procreation capabilities really be reprogrammed to begin with!?
My personal take on the future events that would happen with Erra and Natah are that we, the Tenno, will kill Erra to whcih Natah realizes, or will have realized, that she was manipulated by him and let the Tenno decide what should happen to her. We would then get a Sun/Moon/Balance choice where we are given the options to (Sun) accept her back as our mother figure/guide, (Moon) kill Natah and end the cycle of pain and regret, or (Balance) let her go, but reject her as a mother figure considering the betrayal and pain the Tenno faced with her leaving. Picking Sun would return the Lotus as space mom and our mission guide, Moon would have her replaced with either Ordis or Teshin (or potentially letting the player choose who they want as a guide) and Balance would do the same as Moon, but the Lotus could be seen in a Relay or other open world hub as an interactable npc who you could choose to guide you should you so wish.
I like to think that the Erra in the actual times is just a Dead Erra's body controlled by Hunhow, as Hunhow is not dead, he just give some power to the Stalker, as he is still in Uranus, deep in the sea, maybe he got a way to get into the dead body of his old son, and use it to control Natah again
I don't know all of the lore, but ive done some research... My overall assumption is the Orokin were descendants of human lineage that achieved immortality in the form of continuity. It was this immortality that led to their arrogance, and this arrogance led to their ultimate demise. The origin of the Sentients was due to Orokin curiosity and greed meeting the mysterious and seemingly chaotic Void. Orokin had essentially used up all valuable resources in the Origin system and sought the Tau system as another source of said resources. The self replicating, terraforming robots they sent to Tau gained sentience when they came in contact with the Void thus creating the Sentients. These Sentients then returned to the Origin system to wipe out the Orokin before they could do to Tau, what they had done to their own solar system. It would seem to me that the Void is some sort of technology, or entity, existing for the sole purpose of protecting the Tau system. The Tenno are just void-warped children, that ultimately turned on the Orokin; whether due to lashing out after years of trauma at Orokin hands, or by an unconscious order placed within them when they were changed by the void they slaughtered the Orokin. When the player takes control of the Tenno/Warframe, both the Sentients and Tenno have been inactive for generations. The remnants of the Orokin Empire (Grineer, Corpus, and even the Infested) have gained footholds in the Origin System almost to the point where they once again threaten the Tau System. The primary focus of the gameplay is to fight these three factions while gaining a foothold on each planet as you retake the system. The conflict between the Tenno and the Sentients can be dumbed down to two anti-viruses attacking each other. If they ultimately destroy each other, the three remaining factions will eventually expand to threaten the Tau system. The Grineer, in search of longevity; the Corpus, in search of Profit; and the Infested, as the virus continues to spread and assimilate everything around it. Most of the quests we're given teach the player about the past or the current events of the Origin System. And the whole point of learning History is to prevent tragedies from reoccurring and learn from our mistakes. So I would assume the only reason the Sentients attack the Tenno is to keep them in check, rather than some petty form of revenge. Let's face it, if access to the Tau System suddenly appeared in our Navigation consoles, what player wouldn't try to explore it... out of curiosity... seeking knowledge or power... or simply in the name of conquest?
I’m no sure about the part that “She let Erra live.” There’s no way we can tell that the Lotus made the Tenno hold back when they attacked Erra. Natah also seemed very confident that Erra was destroyed, it’s like she knew as the Lotus she didn’t make the Tenno hold back. Erra has no reason to be hesitant or lie with about surviving Lua. Unless it isn’t truly Erra and there is actually no way Erra would have survived it. Thus, he dodges the question because whoever is impersonating Erra knows there isn’t a way he would have survived, or one that the impersonated can think of.
I suspect you are close and that most of it boils down to Ballas did a thing. Firstly I do believe that the Lotus was reprogrammed; twice in fact. Ballas reached out to Hunhow with the plan to wipe out the Orokin leadership. Ballas detested them and many of the Orokin due to the execution of Margulis. And that it was Ballas that was the one who reprogrammed Natah into the Lotus. Basing many of her thought patterns and her body on Margulis. He figured that doing so that she would fulfill her role. That was to destroy the Orokin and then remove the Tenno. At which point both him and Hunhow fake their death/went into hiding. The problem is that while Margulis/Lotus was willing to betray the Orokin (my guess is that she might have reversed the transference giving the Warframes control of their own infested bodies again) this process ended up damaging the Tenno psyches. Remember that the prime Warframes all rebelled against the Orokin and were wiped out because of it. And the Margulis aspect of the conditioning would push her into healing her children and that is what Natah wanted too. Notice how during Erra's death that she is in full control of the Tenno and their void powers. Not the other way around. Much like a Sentient would control their smaller parts. Then after the Tenno were healed she kept going with her objective of leading the Tenno. That is until Ballas showed up again. Notice the two statements that the Lotus asks Ballas. "How long have we waited for this moment?" "For what? I am not who you think I am." She knew that Ballas was going to come for her but feel she is the person that Ballas is looking for. At which point he reprograms her again. This time she thinks she is Margulis until the end of the scene. We don't see Ballas interacting with her again until he is nearly killed by the Tenno. Given that we nearly killed him I am guessing that he is fairly upset with us but for some reason he just gives us the one weapon that can kill Natah. All the while acting and clearly aware that we are in the room with him. So yeah I totally think that Ballas is trying to get revenge on the Tenno now. And that he wants to revive Margulis. The Lotus was an imperfect copy and Natah 2.0 wasn't any better. Erra is probably a copy or puppet that Ballas is using (Just watch him during all the scenes that he is chained up and remember that he has a transference bolt that he likes to use to chat with). Also remember that he keep pitting us against each other and Erra betrays her the second she starts to remember her time with the Tenno. But that is how I think the story is going. Right now any interpitation could be correct until an update finally finishes the story.
I wonder if there's some kind of rift between sentients. Like Erra and Hunhow might be going against each other? We know the Corpus and Grineer have fights amongst themselves, we see that often and even settle it sometimes. But we never really see the inner workings of the sentients. So, who knows? I doubt they all share the same beliefs.
@@SmoughTown Well, Erra had cared about Natah in the flashback, but then he acted completely different. To be honest, the latest cinematic acts like modern Erra isnt necessary the same that was defeated in the past. Dunno, New War is an amazing concept, but so far DE doesnt seem to know what to do with it.
If there is a rift between sentients its most likely along the lines of either Hunhow/Erra - two sentients who want to crush the Origin system by force or deceit - or Ballas/Natah. Two hybrid Orokin/Sentients, one of whom wants to crush the Tenno for the death of Margulis and the end of the Orokin Empire, and the other who wants to protect us as a Mother protects their children. Ballas was an Orokin who is turning Sentient, and Natah is a Sentient who is turning into a Orokin (the base personality of Margulis overcoming the Sentient body)
Erra's voice changes. When he is in the reservoir sounds different than when he is on the sentient ship, telling Natah to sing. Not sure if it's important or not, might just be an oversight on the sound design. However it does give some interesting ideas. What if Erra on the ship isn't actually Erra? Voice sounds a bit like Hunhow imo. If that's true and it is Hunhow, woah...
All I'm saying is Erra had a whole different voice in the Old War Then all of a sudden he has this higher pitch, more dualized voice Maybe Hunhow possessed his son's corpse and is now finishing the sequence by force? 👀
Alternative: Erra isn't the original, but a puppet. He was killed back at Lua, as the Lotus remembers. Ballas did reprogram Natah into the Lotus, and has has rebuilt or otherwise recreated him to use as a puppet to control the Sentients. Did you see Erra drop Ballas's leash and how he straightened up? Did Ballas look like a beaten prisoner? Also, regardless of what the truth is, I'm in the Kill the Lotus camp. She is a liability we have outgrown.
theory: the Erra in the cutscene is a mimic..a double spy perhaps? Erra will ""kill" natah. i think he has bigger malice or alternative motives than hunhow. dare i say, he wants to userp hunhows title. I think the difference between hunhow and erra is that hunhow wants to destroy origin but erra wants to make all orokin and their creations (tenno and grinner) extinct out of revenge for them re-programing natah. the confusion youre having now is what we will find out in the new war. we can possibly seen the lotus personality being formated into natah. allowing the lotus to take full control even though shes a mimic or a cliffhanger to something about marghoulis which could mean the duviri paradox being the next big update after?
I just noticed the stalker looks a LOT like umbra with the dangeling cloths before getting the armor. Is it possible that the stalker is another Dax turned warframe?
Would it not make sense that Ballas saves Erra? At the point Erra is attacked by the Lotus he is working with Hunhow, he will have the authority to claim Erra's body to resurrect or fix it and at the very end of the cutscene where the Lotus is thrown into the device (as Erra says "finish the war") Erra drops Ballas' leash and Ballas stands up (implying their visual relation of master and slave was for her benefit and no longer necessary).
You are missing a critical piece of the puzzle here. It was not the Orokin as a whole that reprogrammed Natah. It was BALLAS specifically who converted her into the Lotus. So here’s how I see the pattern of events: Ballas implants Margullis’s memories into Natah without the Orokin knowing as a way of bringing her back (the Orokin wouldn’t allow the memories of a “traitor” and “heretic” near their precious killing machines). Ballas betrays the Orokin to the Sentients as revenge for Margullis’s death and allows the Sentients to carry out their plan to infiltrate and wipe out the Orokin. Ballas double crosses the Sentients leaves them in hibernation knowing that it would be impossible to wipe out all the Sentients at once and waking them up would be too risky. Once the Tenno have finished off the Orokin, Ballas moves to wipe out the Tenno or, at the very least, leave them in hibernation forever like he did with the Sentients. However Lotus, who still has Margullis’s personality, chooses the Tenno over Ballas and takes the Tenno into the Void and watches over them. Hundreds of years pass and Grineer interference forces the Lotus to reawaken the Tenno. Finally, Ballas works towards destroying the Tenno, who he still blames for Margullis’s death. In short, Ballas is a spiteful old man who won’t let the past go and ruined everything for everyone.
Well since Margullius is an Orokin and we know about continuity and the theory of the Orokin ghosts there is a possibility the Lotus could be replaced by her.
The lotus needs to pay for the betrayal if she does it once she will do it again and IF she was controlled she's even dangerous if she chose to betray us we could try to convince her to stop but a controlled lotus is even worse the lotus is a liability at this point sadly
It might be fuckier than that, they are partially machines and they can be reprogrammed and have their memories fucked with without a trace. We or Natal might never know the truth
Another reason why Erra is clearly lying: he told her that Mother is dead. But they are LITERALLY INSIDE OF HER. Also I don't think it's that far off that we'll get a different mission reader. DE has already given us plenty of different mission readers ever since the Apostasy prologue. But I do think she'll eventually get redeemed yes
What if Orokin didn't win with Sentients? If Ballast or Lotus/Natah made a deal with them? Santients withdraw, origin system people were spared in exchange for that Tenno killed Orokin. They were the only one that could do that. Sentients had no acces to highest ranking Orokin, Dax ware bound by Kuva. Or maybe even were instrumented to kill Orokin by Lotus and that's why she wipe their memory. Maybe another part of the deal was death of Tanno?
erra may not even be erra, considering how confident natah was he was destroyed, and his apparent lack of knowledge of hunhow's plan. perhaps he's the one who's been reprogrammed, or his husk is being puppeteered. but by who
if you take a look at the lore the Orokin didn't kill their enemies they imprisoned them within their own minds. this is just at Theory but what if the Orokin used two minds to create an artificial mind prison? it would make sense, consider the Orokin moving their subconscious to another body. it would be highly inconvenient for an Orokin to be constantly fighting with the second mind for control. so either they would need to find a way of removing that mind or silencing that Mind. Ordis back story, does state they do have the capability of removing a person's mind and storing it's into a Construct. We've been led to believe that Ordis is the Beast of Bones, but What if Ordis is just the result of merging two minds to create a new personality as the prison If you think about it if you removed Ordis glitches the beast of bones personality would still be present in the form of cold calculative, combat strategies and weapon engagements. and his love for weapon mods. The big question is who is the second mind that is imprisoned in Ordis? Whos personality gives Ordis his loving happy-go-lucky side? Now add that theory to the Lotus. we have Natah, and we Margulis. and we have the Lotus
agree with everything else, except I think this Erra isn't the real Erra and is just posing as him to gain more control without Mummy and Daddy around to question it
erra is nothing more but a arrogant son of hunhow who grown tired of how his farther hunhow did his plans of attack in the old war. erra wanted to continue the war but in his own way which is basically full on assault with no well thought out means of attack. this is evident when you begin hunting the 3 arcons in the story quest before getting to the very end of the new war hunhow and erra talking to one another hunhow even stated that ballus is just using you for his own personal gain and with our final and only meet with erra he learned the hard way and realized his father spoke truth and did what he could to help us get to ballus at one point gave his life to hold up a collapsed wall to let us continue and told us just like hunhow did to save natah. erra's whole deal is wanting to end the tenno and orokin while ballus wanted to end the tenno. everything you said in this video i cant for the life of me side with it due to the fact for myself have not seen any error of his side of the story as to me it isnt conflicting at all as its basically erra giving us his side of the whole ordeal of the old war.
Nah men...you're just lying to yourself. Ballas is pulling all the strings. Erra is just the puppet. Recreated by the "maker" himself, Ballas. All to make sure Margullis gets the revenge on those little brats and their infested mechs that they deserve. And with the help of Hunhow, hopefully the machines (even the "nano" machines, son!) kick your angsty teenage hotness back into the pod you came from. Tenno are terrorists. They are the ones who stormed capitol hill. Warframes are accomplices to a war crime. My vote on the Tenno: GUILTY
Maybe Erra is not even actually Erra? Maybe he did die by the Lotus' and Tennos' hands, and this is something entirely different, posing as Erra? Rap tap tap
So was Ballas in a cryopod for several thousand years or has he been using continuity to transfer bodies? Why did he suddenly reappear for the second invasion? By this point Ballas has no reason to continue to aid the Sentients unless they were exploiting his hardon for Margulis. Even still the Sentients have absolutely no use for Ballas as the Orokin Empire has long since been destroyed, Ballas due to being away for so long has little to no useful knowledge about the current state of the system to be useful to the Sentients. Why is Erra keeping him on a leash when he is utterly useless to them. Why are they making a show of Amalgamating him? The Sentients despised the Orokin why would they want to turn an Orokin into a Sentient?
Hear me out... Erra is not a liar... because that is not Erra. Erra is dead. Who else do we know who can shape shift into those who enter the void? Both to manipulate and confuse? "Man" I am just "in" a state where I am hitting "the wall" trying to figure out who would benefit from making an entrance while all superpowers are in all out war here...
![Warframe Lore | The Mother Orbs EXPLAINED [Profit-Taker & Exploiter]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9GdRJuI0ehQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Clem thanks you all for watching.
If you liked it remember to sub and follow me on twitter: twitter.com/smoughtown
Check out my Grineer Lore video: ruclips.net/video/SLxBWyZIE2g/видео.html
How do you unlock iron wake? I wanna hang out with clem in his blunt fort
@@bingl4526 You need to progress the story to the Chains of Harrow :)
This isn’t Erra but a puppet under the control of Ballas. He’ set this all up and is manipulating all and everything around him.
@@Mr_Maikels it is hunhow controlling erra's dead body. In the sacrifice i was made clear that hunhow and Balls worked together to make the lotus and bring the fall of the orokin but lotus ruined their plans literally Last minute but saving the Tenno instead of killing them.
Here's a thought. Maybe both Erra and Hunhow's versions of events are correct. In the Duviri Paradox trailer you see both older and younger versions of the Tenno. Maybe someone is going back in time, perhaps more than once on a "do over" causing multiple "true" events to try to get things to play out to the Tenno's advantage.
This is a perfect opportunity to bring in Tyl Regor as the mission guide
Yes, I am all about this
Couldn't agree more.
Tyl Regor: You need my help HA! The tenno worm wants my help for what? You destroyed my Lab, Sabotage my work, Killed my tubemen, Almost killed me for your lotus, now you want my help? But if your really looking for the sentients and that Nata- I mean the lotus, I'll guide you just this once and that i have chance to kill you once more.
I want to see tyl Regor back as something. I want him to be revealed as working in secret; maybe on non combat clones?
I want Cressa Tal
Excalibur one tapping sentients with Burston prime in the flashback is more unreliable than Erra's narrative.
Read the burston prime codex
It was more powerful before orokin collapse and its power could not be recreated.
4g3nt 0
Ah yes explaining nerfs through lore
@@4g3nt06 "Attempts to reengineer the Burston Prime never fully replicated this weapon's power and agility." This is essentially just saying what we know about most primes. Which is that they're stronger than their "base" variants, that are essentially cheap recreations of their prime models. Shooting a sentient with a burston prime or regular now, vs in the orokin era wouldn't yield much difference... by themselves
Instead I think what might be canonically happening here is primed mods, If we assume that most mods had existing primes in the orokin era that have been lost. Possibly umbral mods, void element, or effects we've never seen in the game.
It might even be conceivable that orokin era tech could extend mod capacity far more than is possible now, or even add slots.
@@PollexTheCat Ah... yes... primed point strike... it would be a sight to behold.
@@4g3nt06 that’s referring to the standard burston as the less powerful version, or at least that’s how I interpreted it
Now THIS is quality content. I do love how you are giving Warframe lore a look, even explaining forgotten or convoluted parts of the plot. Continue working on, my dude. I see great potential.
Thanks for the kind words my friend :) I love the lore of the game and feedback like this makes me want to keep going
I've had an oblique theory for a while now: That Erra did die during the assault on Lua, and the being calling himself Erra now is an impostor. We know that Sentient biology can be reshaped quite drastically, with Natah->Lotus->Natah as an example, so what's to stop Ballas, the Orokin responsible for creating the Sentients in the first place, from reshaping a Sentient, possibly an unwilling one, to impersonate Erra and mind-game Natah? A piece that helped form this wild take was how Ballas acted during the last cinematic: he expressed glee, then quickly hid the expression, then as soon as Natah was incapacitated, Erra released Ballas' leash and Ballas stood up straight, as if he were an equal to Erra shedding the disguise of being a pet.
This would reconcile Natah's memory of killing Erra, and the current Erra's repeated contradictions with established history. If he's basically a very convincing puppet for Ballas to enact a plan through, then he has every reason to lie to and gaslight Natah.
Then additionally, Ballas provided us the Paracesis, whose function is to slay Sentients. By escalating the current skirmishes into total war between all factions, Ballas could get simultaneous revenge on the Tenno, the Corpus inheritors to the Orokin will, the Grineer who serve one or two surviving Orokin, and the Sentients. He could set everyone up to destroy each other, leaving him to pick up whatever pieces he pleased. We already know from the Vitruvian message that Ballas is a past master of the "lets you and him fight" strategy of accomplishing goals. As the man who was responsible for the Sentient project, it's not too far fetched for him to have made a new one for his new purposes.
That would be a twist and a half
I believe Erra is Hunhow that's why he had leased Ballas and when he pushed natah he dropped it and ballas stood tall
Did you just say.. impostor? u sussy bakka
Ballas didn't create the sentient, he just gave a green light to their production
Given the design of Caliban, I feel obligated to say....
"Sus"
Lets also not forget that Erra's head looks like a Corvid species of bird (such as a Raven or Crow) which is tied with the human characterizations of 'revenge' and 'deceit'.
That's a great point! Without really consciously registering it, I did feel something 'deceptive' about his look.
What if ballas planned it? He wants revenge on: the orokin (forcing him to kill Margulis), the tenno (for causing margulis harm), the sentients (BLASPHEMIES, but he will use them). Ballas works with the sentients to end the orokin by planing Nathas "reprograming", then kill the tenno and the sentients kill the orokin. But everything goes his way: ballas does not let her kill the tenno, the tenno kill all remaining sentients in the Origins System to keep his betrayal a secret and blame it all on Nathas "mercy", the orokin celebrate but the tenno kill them on lotus orders witch are really ballases, the tenno go to sleep, ballas comes back for Natha (witch is meant to be his new margulis) but natha snaps out of it and returns to her sentient self...
could you follow all that? its hard to say what has been retconed or not because thats warframe: a game that didnt know what it was until the people who played and loved it shaped it into what it is today, kinda like a person with views that change over time
I followed it and I totally agree that it’s a game with a story that has evolved over time. If that’s the case I’ll be 100% on board!
That’s kind of what I’ve been able to out together- so nice 👍 to hear this from someone else for once.
And remember in the last chapter of the new war, ballas smiles as if he knows what’s happening
In the sacrifice quest we learnt that Balls and Hunhow worked together to destroy the empire cause the orokin stole something from both of them(margulis for balls and the ability to reproduce for the sentients). The other sentients did not know of this. Also lotus hiding the Tenno makes no sense at all to support the place of Balls or hunhow. It was her first time making a choise of her self as the amalgam of Natah and margulis. She is her own being, neither of her past selves.
Also Erra in the new war is obviously hunhow using erra's dead body.
@@gkarak1996 that’s pretty interesting at the end- I hadn’t considered that at all.
Is the Erra in modern day actually the same one as during the old war or someone using his name? Natah seemed pretty certain he was dead, and he was quick to cover it up before she could question it. It could be the lighting differences but it looks like his colours are different, going from red to orange and yellow, and his speech pattern seems more like Hunhow in modern day verses his informality earlier.
Hmmm… that actually makes it plausible that it’s actually Hunhow in control of what might actually be a empty vessel version of Erra.
I believe it is the man in the wall playing its games.
It tried to show us the Lotus as an antagonist in hallucinations.
I think the man in the wall has a reason to want Lotus/Natah gone. I'm not sure what that reason is.
I think Ballas saved him (either healing or resurrecting him), at the very end of the cutscene where Erra throws the Lotus/Natah into a device saying "end the war" he drops Ballas's leash and Ballas stands tall. This implies their master and slave visual relationship was entirely for her benefit and they have been working together to deceive her, which also implies they have a prior relationship and trust one another.
Erra in veilbreaker seems to be an argon entity due to the head it has along with the shard it got as we see in I believe either the veilbreaker cutscenes or the new war end one
Dang I never knew you were doing warframe lores I love warframe and also you're channel more
Yep. Particularly the Hundow details made me think this from the start.
The Lotus literally started to call him out, at which point he and Ballas dropped the act and just went with force; presumably using her to call her mother.
Erra died a long time ago and not like how Hunhow is _technically_ dead.
It must be boring been one of the main "villains" but been stuck in the bottom of the ocean.....of Uranus
@@pancakes4552 That or they didn't leave Uranus because it was so wet they just couldn't resist staying!
Hunhow does not need his original body to move in general as seen in octavia's quest. Also the Erra in the new war quest is definetely Hunhow as it was told to us that Balls and hunhow worked together before the fall of the orokin to destroy the orokin for within. They let the orokin control the lotus on purpose.
@@gkarak1996 A important detail your forgetting is all sentiments you fight are in how, remember hos he was the stalkers sword in the second dream quest? And how he says he attacks in many forms?
@@Nezha_Main you forget that the octavia quest is after the second dream both in game and lore. So hunhow is basically alive after you break the blade.
It’s rumored that Ballas did something to her mind and the fact that he went directly to her chambers in the flashback points to the fact that he knew where she was and how to unplug her. However I believe that he didn’t know he would be double crossed by Era.
I don't know if your caught up with the story, but as of the last Ballas drop
It's pretty clear this is a fake Erra and he's either Ballas' servant, or partner; the last thing Ballas did was drop the slave act and stand by the fake Erra's side.
@@TheArcSet This guy gets it!
@@TheArcSet I noticed this and when Ballas genuinely looked worried when Natah specifically pointed him out asking if he was one of the makers too. Eres completely ignored this and continued on which I picked on but didn’t think much about the first time around...... but you’re definitely right- something is up for sure.
@Amir I don’t think so because he always was protective of Natah- while Eres was- is not.
@Amir Pretty sure that's not the case, or at least, there's no reason to currently suspect that.
Not to mention that their stories contradict each other and Hunhow seemed to want to protect Natah, were as Ballas and 'Erra' just seem to want to use her to summon new sentients to the origin system.
The MIGHTY SEER is more powerful than both the lotus and erra
I enjoy your Warframe lore videos, as well as some of the other theory videos you do. It’s refreshing to see someone who, despite the confusing and conflicting story bits, still believes in having the Lotus redeemed and not fully trusting what Erra may be trying to say. I have the same beliefs that hopefully we can have Mother Lotus back and we could redeem this flawed and confused character. It would also make for a great emotionally complicated story where it makes you think and wonder. A lot of things seem to not make much sense from what we knew, when Erra told his version of events. I say we continue on, for the Lotus!
And I too wish to stab the Paracesis into Erra’s face hole, along with the Dex Dakra! Since it has the Lotus insignia on them, wouldn’t that be just a great insult to him?
Awesome to meet like minded Tenno, no matter what I believe in the mission of the Lotus and I hope we can end Erra and Redeem our old mentor.
@@SmoughTown Agreed on all accounts! I feel like the complex and sometimes complicated story and lore could make for a good narrative in terms of a redemption and making you wonder about even your own moral compass. Not everything is black and white though it seems to have started out that way, but turned into a tangled web. It’s what keeps me intrigued with Warframe’s lore and why I also believe in the Lotus from start to whatever finish.
DE needs to bring back the actual space mom ie Margulis because 1. It would shatter Ballas 2. We, the Tenno would have back the only person who cared about us.
Yeah but the orokin deleted her with the jade light
@@plate_fox Yeah she got fuckin' misted. No coming back from that, lmao.
Wait I have a strange feeling that margulis is the lotus as if I am right margulis is blind because of one of the Tenno, that’s why lotuses mask cover’s her eyes and when we saw the lotus face her eyes were grey
@@Gingie47lotus is a sentient Mimic mimicking the appearance of margulis
@@plate_fox lotus is basically an amalgam. The body of natah(mimic and daughter of hunhow) and the memories of margulis. Hunhow and Balls cooperated to make lotus. During the new war quest you can see that Erra cooperated with Balls. However Erra is dead. The one using the body of Erra is hunhow.
The lotus is controlled by Balls and hunhow to do this.
The biggest hint is the fact that she saved the Tenno by putting them to sleep instead of killing them. He could kill them since the orokin were already dead(Balls wanted them dead too). But she did not. It was her first time making a desicions for her self, not as Margulis, not as Natah, but as Lotus.
Good video, my dude. That Loid *prediction* really cracked me up :D
Hahaha thanks bud, he makes me laugh when he says it 10x per bounty
I know I'm late to the party here but... my understanding is that in the cinematic Natah stated she destroyed Erra, period. Not injured him but destroyed him. When she says he's a maker she nods at erra then looks at Ballas. She's asking Ballas about Erra. Erra realizes his deception is broken and binds her into the forge and releases the leash to reveal that This 'Erra' is on Ballas' side
About Erra, we see in the Tennocon 21 new war demo that he has a distinct ability to exert his will over others, to control their mind. (God-fucking-speed, Kahl 175.)
I find it really interesting that every time the Lotus says the phrase "THE ENEMY" she progressively shows her programming more and more every time she says it.
SHE'S A TOOL lol
Awesome video once again Smough. One thing to bolster your point too, is that during the Orphix Venom event (or was it Scarlet Spear), Natah/Lotus gives out coordinates that are a hidden call for help: "IM DYING"
We need Tyl Regor as a mission guide so when you mess up he'll be like "what are you doing you worthless freak"
Your videos are doing things other Warframe content creators (that I know of, or to a good enough degree) are doing.
I tried to follow the lore to the best I can but as a player who keeps coming and going and has played since it released on Xbox it’s difficult to keep up sometimes and I miss things but these videos are helping me out with remembering things I’ve forgotten and given me a new perspective on things in the lore as well.
With everything we do currently do you think there’s a possibility of a theory video about what will happen in the new war quest, because there’s a few ways it could go down and I’m always interested in everyone’s theory’s on it and how the game will progress
But I love the videos man keep up the good work !!
Really glad you like the video! It’s defo a pretty convoluted story at points.
On my list of videos to do I am wanting to do one on what erra’s plan is but I will absolutely consider covering my new war prediction!
Thanks again
I mean, that was plainly obvious to anyone who pays attention to the trailers to the game because the New War trailer shows natah talking to her mother lol. The entire point of the second part of Erra was to show he was lying also, natah acts confused and straight up questions him as he died in the old war by her hand.
Maybe the Lotus is the amalgamation of the original Margulis and the captured Natah. Or the Man in the Wall fused the souls of Natah and Margulis in the Void to save them both for his plans with the Tenno. That's probably why the Man in the Wall always says you owe me, Tenno.
Era supposedly died in the cutscene and we know Wallie can shapeshift so for me I'm thinking the man in the wall is pulling the sentients strings
you asked why the tenno rebelled. personally, I believe the tenno rebelled because of margulis' death, combined with how we see the tenno operate in leverian. I think ash's leverian story is set mere days before the collapse, as all the tenno gathered for some event (we know from the stalker lore) they probably shared stories and realized how they had gone from innocent children to monstrous war machines used to maintain an evil, brutal empire.
Like you said at the end I also think we're the ones who are going to break through to her and bring her back which will remind her why she did what she did back in the old war
I agree with you..biggest hole in the story is the orokin ‘reprogrammed’ Natah? Wasn’t the whole sentient issue that they couldn’t be controlled and overrid any technology sent against them?
I enjoy space mom being there and helping us and i want to get her back on our side
Don't forget, there are 2 different reports of the Zariman returning to dock. One in which the Zariman never returned, seen in Duviri Paradox trailer, and one in which it returned with noone onboard, our side of the coin. Realistically, we were onboard, we just slipped by using Void Mode and slaughtered 6 of the 7 Executors. Ballas was the only one to get away. Marghulis defended us but ended up sacrificing herself to save us after being put into our first dream. This could be something similar.
Or, as "Lotus" is based on Margulis, maybe Ballas did something to undercover Natah to convince her she WAS Margulis.
There's also the chance that Natah did this to herself so she could ensure that no matter what happened she wouldn't break cover until being triggered by the right thing, or perhaps until a timer wore out, and the conditioning, perhaps done with some fragments of Margulis' memories or knowledge (as she was closest to the Tenno), just took a little too well. It could even be a replicant of sorts, like a cephalon; due to its source, Erra could see it as the "Makers'" doing.
No matter what happens the love the tenno had for Lotus was very much real, we were her children. Doesn't matter if she was Natah or Lotus, everything she did for the tenno and the love and care the tenno developed for her wasn't a lie.
So that makes me mad when I see the community talking about killing Lotus. She might be protecting us even now as we are clueless to ehat she is doing, or she might need our help more than ever. We can give our hand and save her from her inner torment and lifelong manipulation drama and maybe be betrayed, or we can stomp on everything we built together stab on her back. If Natah needed the Tenno killed, she had too many opportunities, and we are still here... Maybe in the future something changes, but if we remind the Lotus that doesn't matter what is the mask or the name she is wearing, we are her children and we always loved her, and that is all she always wanted all along...
And then someone kills her and we have a new big baddy, tenno goes out of control and that's how starts the duviri paradox. Jokes aside, The tenno have no one but each other and the Lotus, we might work with a lot of people, but no one but the Lotus actually did something for the Tenno. Yeah, Teshin gave us a hand in the way he could, but he didn't have a choice if he wanted to live.
Erra did in fact died, ballas is the one manipulating, the moment lotus referred to balas instead of erra, erra throw her, and then released ballas.
Ballas was acting strange all the time, like he was the one talking, the moment erra put his hand on lotus "shoulder" that was too human...
I like these theories a lot, but I think it goes a lot deeper than what you presented here. I think you are very right about Erra lying to her, and I think it is setting up for Natah's redemption, but not for the same reasons you pointed out. I think that the Erra we see in the Old War does actually care about his sister, and was trying to save her. But I think lotus is right, he died, the tenno made sure of that. I do not think the erra we see at the end of the Erra quest and the 3rd cutscene are the same Erra. One point is the way he talks, the tonality of his voice. Play the two Erra's side by side. The one in the present has a higher voice. And the part that you pointed out where Natah says, "He is one of them isn't he, a maker". For me the implication here is that Ballas made this fake Erra. If the orokin made the sentients before, why couldn't one do it again. Then about Natah talking with her mother, I do not think she is talking about the tenno, I think she is talking about fake Erra and Ballas. (Oh side not that cinematic is more proof to the theory that Erra is lying, because he claims that mother is gone). Mother says "they took away your fire". I think it is still unclear what her "fire" is though I think it may be synonymous with her "voice". The only other people who have mentioned this fire is Erra. "But you have her fire, and more". This eludes to her having some ability or skill that her mother also had, which it appears like Erra wants, something that could finish the war. I think it is what is happening at the end of that 3rd cutscene, he is taking away her fire to use for something. But if this is true, it brings up the question, who is in control and what do they want. My first thought was ballas, he clearly seems to be in much more control than he is letting on. Look at the way he smiles when natah says, "finish the war". We know he wanted the sentients to be created in the first place, so maybe his plan stretches even as far back as that. I think he wants us to fight the sentients, which is the point of Chimera, he is manipulating us into thinking he is weak and defeated, and that he was wrong. But in reality we are just going along with what he wants. Him an this new erra appear to be allies, evidenced by erra letting go of his leash when natah was thrown at the contraption. Which would make sense if this Erra was created by, and possibly being controlled by Ballas. Atleast that is what I thought initially, but I think it goes deeper than that, so deep that it is connected to the most mysterious character in the game. The Man in The Wall. He is clearly directly involved in this whole plot. Possibly controlling us and the Lotus in the Old War part of the Erra quest. Our eyes show the characteristic Man in The Wall color, and the light on Lotus's helmet has a strange orange hue. Also Erra here says, "The queen of the Aphids, with her eye in the void". Also Ballas' right eye in the 3rd cutscene appears to show he is under the voids influence as well. I think there is much more complicated things going on here that we don't yetunderstand, and I don't think we will be able to until we get more story progression here, but one thing is for sure, someone is in control here. Someone who wants a war between the tenno and the sentients. And it is not going to end well if we give in and kill the Natah. Which I think is what we are being manipulated into doing. But I do not think that is going to happen, after all Natah has been calling out to us for help in Scarler Spear, saying "IM DYING", which is probably related to what happened at the end of that 3rd cutscene. I just hope that tenno out there get that message, and are not to quick to revenge, because the fate of the system may depend on it.
Great read thanks for that, and glad you enjoy the vide. I am the same as you in that i hope we aren't tempted to kil Natah; to me she is very confused and tortured and needs some help tbh. I think alot of people in the community have jumped on a bandwagon baying for her blood, as I alluded to at the start of the video but I respect the Lotus and it is ultimately she who set us free from the Orokin and anyone else who tried to use us. She showed us the path to defending the innocent of the Orokin system and I think we owe her one for that.
isn`ballas THE creator of the warframes and the sentients?
+
Natah remembers killing erra, but here he stands with an shackeld senitified ballas.
=
if anyone was capable of creating a puppet from an dead sentient wouldn`t it be ballas? especially with eons of time at hand?
so i think ballas wants power and to rule over others.
first he comes up with n plan on how to use/controll the sentients.
then with natah/lotus under his controll he can controll the tenno and their warframes.
grineer corpus and infested are of no concern to this op army...
Erra is using the Lotus in some way you can tell when he grabs her and throws her in that cutscene of Scarlet Spear.
A personal point I’d like to share is: Are Sentients even reprogrammable?
If the Orokin really could reprogram Sentients like Natah then wouldn’t that change the course of the war significantly. Also can robots with consciousness and procreation capabilities really be reprogrammed to begin with!?
gives me institute synth vibes
Ballas pulling the strings as expected
My personal take on the future events that would happen with Erra and Natah are that we, the Tenno, will kill Erra to whcih Natah realizes, or will have realized, that she was manipulated by him and let the Tenno decide what should happen to her. We would then get a Sun/Moon/Balance choice where we are given the options to (Sun) accept her back as our mother figure/guide, (Moon) kill Natah and end the cycle of pain and regret, or (Balance) let her go, but reject her as a mother figure considering the betrayal and pain the Tenno faced with her leaving. Picking Sun would return the Lotus as space mom and our mission guide, Moon would have her replaced with either Ordis or Teshin (or potentially letting the player choose who they want as a guide) and Balance would do the same as Moon, but the Lotus could be seen in a Relay or other open world hub as an interactable npc who you could choose to guide you should you so wish.
I just feel we need the last 3th episode of the old war or content about the sentient and orokin
Erra died on Lua. Erra survived Lua.
I like to think that the Erra in the actual times is just a Dead Erra's body controlled by Hunhow, as Hunhow is not dead, he just give some power to the Stalker, as he is still in Uranus, deep in the sea, maybe he got a way to get into the dead body of his old son, and use it to control Natah again
I think that the lotus did have a maternal feeling but ballas reprogrammed her to become a normal sentient again
I don't know all of the lore, but ive done some research...
My overall assumption is the Orokin were descendants of human lineage that achieved immortality in the form of continuity. It was this immortality that led to their arrogance, and this arrogance led to their ultimate demise.
The origin of the Sentients was due to Orokin curiosity and greed meeting the mysterious and seemingly chaotic Void. Orokin had essentially used up all valuable resources in the Origin system and sought the Tau system as another source of said resources. The self replicating, terraforming robots they sent to Tau gained sentience when they came in contact with the Void thus creating the Sentients. These Sentients then returned to the Origin system to wipe out the Orokin before they could do to Tau, what they had done to their own solar system.
It would seem to me that the Void is some sort of technology, or entity, existing for the sole purpose of protecting the Tau system.
The Tenno are just void-warped children, that ultimately turned on the Orokin; whether due to lashing out after years of trauma at Orokin hands, or by an unconscious order placed within them when they were changed by the void they slaughtered the Orokin.
When the player takes control of the Tenno/Warframe, both the Sentients and Tenno have been inactive for generations. The remnants of the Orokin Empire (Grineer, Corpus, and even the Infested) have gained footholds in the Origin System almost to the point where they once again threaten the Tau System. The primary focus of the gameplay is to fight these three factions while gaining a foothold on each planet as you retake the system.
The conflict between the Tenno and the Sentients can be dumbed down to two anti-viruses attacking each other. If they ultimately destroy each other, the three remaining factions will eventually expand to threaten the Tau system. The Grineer, in search of longevity; the Corpus, in search of Profit; and the Infested, as the virus continues to spread and assimilate everything around it.
Most of the quests we're given teach the player about the past or the current events of the Origin System. And the whole point of learning History is to prevent tragedies from reoccurring and learn from our mistakes. So I would assume the only reason the Sentients attack the Tenno is to keep them in check, rather than some petty form of revenge.
Let's face it, if access to the Tau System suddenly appeared in our Navigation consoles, what player wouldn't try to explore it... out of curiosity... seeking knowledge or power... or simply in the name of conquest?
I’m no sure about the part that “She let Erra live.” There’s no way we can tell that the Lotus made the Tenno hold back when they attacked Erra. Natah also seemed very confident that Erra was destroyed, it’s like she knew as the Lotus she didn’t make the Tenno hold back. Erra has no reason to be hesitant or lie with about surviving Lua. Unless it isn’t truly Erra and there is actually no way Erra would have survived it. Thus, he dodges the question because whoever is impersonating Erra knows there isn’t a way he would have survived, or one that the impersonated can think of.
Ballas/Erra are one in the same: the Chimera of an Orokin and the defeated corpse of the original Erra.
i completely agree with everything you've said here
They need to hurry up and explore the man in the wall more cuz he's/she's the one controlling everything behind the scenes
Lotus puts out a message when fighting the rupo. She saying she's dying.
I suspect you are close and that most of it boils down to Ballas did a thing.
Firstly I do believe that the Lotus was reprogrammed; twice in fact.
Ballas reached out to Hunhow with the plan to wipe out the Orokin leadership. Ballas detested them and many of the Orokin due to the execution of Margulis. And that it was Ballas that was the one who reprogrammed Natah into the Lotus. Basing many of her thought patterns and her body on Margulis. He figured that doing so that she would fulfill her role. That was to destroy the Orokin and then remove the Tenno. At which point both him and Hunhow fake their death/went into hiding.
The problem is that while Margulis/Lotus was willing to betray the Orokin (my guess is that she might have reversed the transference giving the Warframes control of their own infested bodies again) this process ended up damaging the Tenno psyches. Remember that the prime Warframes all rebelled against the Orokin and were wiped out because of it. And the Margulis aspect of the conditioning would push her into healing her children and that is what Natah wanted too. Notice how during Erra's death that she is in full control of the Tenno and their void powers. Not the other way around. Much like a Sentient would control their smaller parts.
Then after the Tenno were healed she kept going with her objective of leading the Tenno. That is until Ballas showed up again. Notice the two statements that the Lotus asks Ballas. "How long have we waited for this moment?" "For what? I am not who you think I am." She knew that Ballas was going to come for her but feel she is the person that Ballas is looking for. At which point he reprograms her again. This time she thinks she is Margulis until the end of the scene.
We don't see Ballas interacting with her again until he is nearly killed by the Tenno. Given that we nearly killed him I am guessing that he is fairly upset with us but for some reason he just gives us the one weapon that can kill Natah. All the while acting and clearly aware that we are in the room with him.
So yeah I totally think that Ballas is trying to get revenge on the Tenno now. And that he wants to revive Margulis. The Lotus was an imperfect copy and Natah 2.0 wasn't any better. Erra is probably a copy or puppet that Ballas is using (Just watch him during all the scenes that he is chained up and remember that he has a transference bolt that he likes to use to chat with). Also remember that he keep pitting us against each other and Erra betrays her the second she starts to remember her time with the Tenno.
But that is how I think the story is going. Right now any interpitation could be correct until an update finally finishes the story.
I wonder if there's some kind of rift between sentients. Like Erra and Hunhow might be going against each other? We know the Corpus and Grineer have fights amongst themselves, we see that often and even settle it sometimes. But we never really see the inner workings of the sentients. So, who knows? I doubt they all share the same beliefs.
I’d honestly love that, Erra vs. Hunhow. I feel hunhow genuinely cares about Natah where Erra has no feelings whatsoever
@@SmoughTown Well, Erra had cared about Natah in the flashback, but then he acted completely different. To be honest, the latest cinematic acts like modern Erra isnt necessary the same that was defeated in the past. Dunno, New War is an amazing concept, but so far DE doesnt seem to know what to do with it.
If there is a rift between sentients its most likely along the lines of either Hunhow/Erra - two sentients who want to crush the Origin system by force or deceit - or Ballas/Natah. Two hybrid Orokin/Sentients, one of whom wants to crush the Tenno for the death of Margulis and the end of the Orokin Empire, and the other who wants to protect us as a Mother protects their children. Ballas was an Orokin who is turning Sentient, and Natah is a Sentient who is turning into a Orokin (the base personality of Margulis overcoming the Sentient body)
Erra's voice changes. When he is in the reservoir sounds different than when he is on the sentient ship, telling Natah to sing. Not sure if it's important or not, might just be an oversight on the sound design. However it does give some interesting ideas. What if Erra on the ship isn't actually Erra? Voice sounds a bit like Hunhow imo. If that's true and it is Hunhow, woah...
Hunhow puppeting the corpse of his long-dead son, or at least a Sentient Mimic that's taken his shape.
All I'm saying is
Erra had a whole different voice in the Old War
Then all of a sudden he has this higher pitch, more dualized voice
Maybe Hunhow possessed his son's corpse and is now finishing the sequence by force? 👀
when i see people mix green and pink it makes me question their sanity.
Erra is being controlled by Ballas, it's obvious when you see erra and his sister talk.
Alternative: Erra isn't the original, but a puppet. He was killed back at Lua, as the Lotus remembers. Ballas did reprogram Natah into the Lotus, and has has rebuilt or otherwise recreated him to use as a puppet to control the Sentients. Did you see Erra drop Ballas's leash and how he straightened up? Did Ballas look like a beaten prisoner?
Also, regardless of what the truth is, I'm in the Kill the Lotus camp. She is a liability we have outgrown.
Ballas developed some interesting kinks
theory:
the Erra in the cutscene is a mimic..a double spy perhaps? Erra will ""kill" natah. i think he has bigger malice or alternative motives than hunhow. dare i say, he wants to userp hunhows title. I think the difference between hunhow and erra is that hunhow wants to destroy origin but erra wants to make all orokin and their creations (tenno and grinner) extinct out of revenge for them re-programing natah. the confusion youre having now is what we will find out in the new war. we can possibly seen the lotus personality being formated into natah. allowing the lotus to take full control even though shes a mimic or a cliffhanger to something about marghoulis which could mean the duviri paradox being the next big update after?
I just noticed the stalker looks a LOT like umbra with the dangeling cloths before getting the armor. Is it possible that the stalker is another Dax turned warframe?
Would it not make sense that Ballas saves Erra? At the point Erra is attacked by the Lotus he is working with Hunhow, he will have the authority to claim Erra's body to resurrect or fix it and at the very end of the cutscene where the Lotus is thrown into the device (as Erra says "finish the war") Erra drops Ballas' leash and Ballas stands up (implying their visual relation of master and slave was for her benefit and no longer necessary).
You are missing a critical piece of the puzzle here. It was not the Orokin as a whole that reprogrammed Natah. It was BALLAS specifically who converted her into the Lotus. So here’s how I see the pattern of events:
Ballas implants Margullis’s memories into Natah without the Orokin knowing as a way of bringing her back (the Orokin wouldn’t allow the memories of a “traitor” and “heretic” near their precious killing machines). Ballas betrays the Orokin to the Sentients as revenge for Margullis’s death and allows the Sentients to carry out their plan to infiltrate and wipe out the Orokin. Ballas double crosses the Sentients leaves them in hibernation knowing that it would be impossible to wipe out all the Sentients at once and waking them up would be too risky. Once the Tenno have finished off the Orokin, Ballas moves to wipe out the Tenno or, at the very least, leave them in hibernation forever like he did with the Sentients. However Lotus, who still has Margullis’s personality, chooses the Tenno over Ballas and takes the Tenno into the Void and watches over them. Hundreds of years pass and Grineer interference forces the Lotus to reawaken the Tenno. Finally, Ballas works towards destroying the Tenno, who he still blames for Margullis’s death.
In short, Ballas is a spiteful old man who won’t let the past go and ruined everything for everyone.
Well since Margullius is an Orokin and we know about continuity and the theory of the Orokin ghosts there is a possibility the Lotus could be replaced by her.
This is perfect in hindsight
You were right
i remember Shy saying that what is really annoying about the lutos lore is the excessiveness of retckoning i'm startig to agree
The lotus needs to pay for the betrayal if she does it once she will do it again and IF she was controlled she's even dangerous if she chose to betray us we could try to convince her to stop but a controlled lotus is even worse the lotus is a liability at this point sadly
It might be fuckier than that, they are partially machines and they can be reprogrammed and have their memories fucked with without a trace. We or Natal might never know the truth
Another reason why Erra is clearly lying: he told her that Mother is dead. But they are LITERALLY INSIDE OF HER.
Also I don't think it's that far off that we'll get a different mission reader. DE has already given us plenty of different mission readers ever since the Apostasy prologue. But I do think she'll eventually get redeemed yes
i still want my vay hek lotus that was posted as a april fools joke
What if Orokin didn't win with Sentients? If Ballast or Lotus/Natah made a deal with them? Santients withdraw, origin system people were spared in exchange for that Tenno killed Orokin. They were the only one that could do that. Sentients had no acces to highest ranking Orokin, Dax ware bound by Kuva. Or maybe even were instrumented to kill Orokin by Lotus and that's why she wipe their memory. Maybe another part of the deal was death of Tanno?
There is no Lotus. She is Natah now.
erra may not even be erra, considering how confident natah was he was destroyed, and his apparent lack of knowledge of hunhow's plan. perhaps he's the one who's been reprogrammed, or his husk is being puppeteered. but by who
Ballas of course
if you take a look at the lore the Orokin didn't kill their enemies they imprisoned them within their own minds.
this is just at Theory but what if the Orokin used two minds to create an artificial mind prison?
it would make sense, consider the Orokin moving their subconscious to another body.
it would be highly inconvenient for an Orokin to be constantly fighting with the second mind for control.
so either they would need to find a way of removing that mind or silencing that Mind.
Ordis back story, does state they do have the capability of removing a person's mind and storing it's into a Construct.
We've been led to believe that Ordis is the Beast of Bones,
but What if Ordis is just the result of merging two minds to create a new personality as the prison
If you think about it if you removed Ordis glitches the beast of bones personality would still be present in the form of cold calculative, combat strategies and weapon engagements.
and his love for weapon mods.
The big question is who is the second mind that is imprisoned in Ordis?
Whos personality gives Ordis his loving happy-go-lucky side?
Now add that theory to the Lotus.
we have Natah, and we Margulis.
and we have the Lotus
agree with everything else, except I think this Erra isn't the real Erra and is just posing as him to gain more control without Mummy and Daddy around to question it
The real puppeteer is actually The man in the wall
Also: notice that Erra is the only sentient who doesn't have eyes and possibly a fake.
Eidolons don't seem to have eyes either...
I know it's a lie because of the way he acts when she brings it up...that he died
Erra is dead the erra we see after the old war is actually an entirely different sentient that took erras form to manipulate natah
erra is nothing more but a arrogant son of hunhow who grown tired of how his farther hunhow did his plans of attack in the old war. erra wanted to continue the war but in his own way which is basically full on assault with no well thought out means of attack. this is evident when you begin hunting the 3 arcons in the story quest before getting to the very end of the new war hunhow and erra talking to one another hunhow even stated that ballus is just using you for his own personal gain and with our final and only meet with erra he learned the hard way and realized his father spoke truth and did what he could to help us get to ballus at one point gave his life to hold up a collapsed wall to let us continue and told us just like hunhow did to save natah. erra's whole deal is wanting to end the tenno and orokin while ballus wanted to end the tenno. everything you said in this video i cant for the life of me side with it due to the fact for myself have not seen any error of his side of the story as to me it isnt conflicting at all as its basically erra giving us his side of the whole ordeal of the old war.
Idk he seems pretty chill to me. Space uncle erra is the best.
He got the best V.A Antonio Greco
Nah men...you're just lying to yourself.
Ballas is pulling all the strings. Erra is just the puppet. Recreated by the "maker" himself, Ballas. All to make sure Margullis gets the revenge on those little brats and their infested mechs that they deserve.
And with the help of Hunhow, hopefully the machines (even the "nano" machines, son!) kick your angsty teenage hotness back into the pod you came from.
Tenno are terrorists. They are the ones who stormed capitol hill. Warframes are accomplices to a war crime.
My vote on the Tenno: GUILTY
How u got the talk with mother cutscene
I keep saying that mom is being used and not a traitor. But my brother tenno are a-holes. 😭😭😭😭
Maybe Erra is not even actually Erra? Maybe he did die by the Lotus' and Tennos' hands, and this is something entirely different, posing as Erra? Rap tap tap
Don't be afraid.
Erra is dead, a factor we must think about is who is shape shifting to be Erra?
I take it you want to save Lotus? I'm more a get rid of her type of tenno.
Lol you were right😭😭
So was Ballas in a cryopod for several thousand years or has he been using continuity to transfer bodies? Why did he suddenly reappear for the second invasion? By this point Ballas has no reason to continue to aid the Sentients unless they were exploiting his hardon for Margulis. Even still the Sentients have absolutely no use for Ballas as the Orokin Empire has long since been destroyed, Ballas due to being away for so long has little to no useful knowledge about the current state of the system to be useful to the Sentients. Why is Erra keeping him on a leash when he is utterly useless to them. Why are they making a show of Amalgamating him? The Sentients despised the Orokin why would they want to turn an Orokin into a Sentient?
I agree with you.
What if we meet the man in the wall in a new quest and he becomes oure new guide
Which are you referring to Erra the quest or Erra Natah's brother?
Natah is Mom Vader.
I don't think it's really Erra but someone pretending to be Erra.
hey I'm not only one that think her brother is doing some sketchy
Hear me out... Erra is not a liar... because that is not Erra. Erra is dead. Who else do we know who can shape shift into those who enter the void? Both to manipulate and confuse? "Man" I am just "in" a state where I am hitting "the wall" trying to figure out who would benefit from making an entrance while all superpowers are in all out war here...
This is the duvurny paradox or something
I like your wf vids
Thank you bud
@@SmoughTownty for making lore vids I wanted to learn more about the wf lore I also liked your greeiner vid it was relly amazing
@@rofo2300 Thanks so much! Another lore video is coming tonight :D
@@SmoughTown :D
vex inside another system
What if Erra is an impostor.
I just realize the stalker is a modyfied unbra
I’m still killing traitor lotus