Thank you for posting this video. When I first heard Turing's story I cried. He saved the lives and freedom of millions of people. Those same people expressed their gratitude by taking his freedom and causing his death.
In 1991, a British organization (I don’t remember the name) uncovered his designs, realized that all the necessary technology now existed, and built it, and it functioned exactly as he predicted. If the funding had continued, humanity could have had computers a century sooner; computers very different from the electronic models we think of now, but computers just the same.
he laced the apple with cyanide because his favorite movie during the time was Snow White...and his mood had darkened. There is a great bio of him on RadioLab, look it up, it's an incredible story.
Amazing Video! Thank you Jaron Lanier for reminding the computer community (everyone on here!) of the context and truly profound insight into the "mind" of Mr. Turing (R.I.P.).
worst part is. it not so long ago! he is a war hero but still no one excepted that he was gay! and its not so many years he was excepted as gay and a hero! the world is so unfair!
Many of the most brilliant thinkers and pioneers in science and elsewhere had what we commonly consider(ed) to be psychological or cognitive 'disorders'- e.g. Einstein, Ludwig Wittgenstein, Isaac Newton, Beethoven, Thomas Edison, ect.
You make an interesting point. The quality of his mind and his arguments are not affected by his appearance, but if the messenger causes people to dislike the message, is it his fault or theirs? Should he recognise the need for a certain amount of conformity, or should we overcome our prejudices? If he was an artist or a musician, his look would make him MORE credible. Maybe we are just too limited in our thinking?
"Moderation is inevitable." I don't see how you figure this. "Humanity is like water in a lot of ways, and one key factor of water is that; when it washes against objects it cannot move, it instead erodes the object." I don't see how being like water in a LOT of ways makes humanity like water in THIS way.
Well, I don't have the right background to understand all the technical details, but Babbage was a 19th century mathematician. He drew up plans for a computing machine that ran on steam instead of electricity. Unfortunately, his plans to build it were seriously hindered by the fact that all the necessary technology had to be invented as he went along. Eventually, his sponsors ran out of patience and cut him off.
This video says that Turing's ideas about AI and the Turing Test were conceived weeks before Turing's suicide in 1954, while under the influence of mind distorting injections. In fact, the Turing Test paper was published in 1950, four years before his death, and two years before Turing's arrest, conviction and forced hormone injections in 1952. I think it's perfectly fair to disagree with Turing's arguments, but unfair to slander him as incompentent based on untrue facts. I also think Lanier misrepresents Turing's arguments, but that's debatable. When Turing wrote the paper is not. This video also makes several other untrue claims, but this is the main argument of the video.
Alan Turing was one of the greatest people. Its a shame the Official secret acts stopped people talking about all the great things he did in the war. Also I've liked everything Jason Lanier says on Big Think.
Alan Turing was in the process of putting together another of his calculation machines, using potassium cyanide in the electroplating process. It is completely possible that the fumes of the cyanide was what accidently killed him. There was never any form of forensic test performed on the apple he had been munching on, nor was a full and proper autopsy performed on him, and noting his high level of intellect and his propensity for being an "absent-minded professor", it is most likely his cause of death was the accidental inhalation of cyanide fumes, NOT a suicide....! Rest in peace Alan......!
Take your pick of any civilisation that has ever existed. All the famous ones went prolonged periods without changing, becoming inflexiable and then slowly losing their grip. The Roman empire is a good example. People got sick of them, and after some time had passed, and what was once and incredibly disciplined military became clumsily rigid, they were destroyed. It can take a long time, but no rule ever lasts unless they flex with the waves of humanity.
He makes a fantastic point in this video, but you didn't really address my question - you simply explained how to not be distracted by his appearance - if it was distracting.
The dilemma that inherently accompanies that assumption is that you simultaneously presume that there is a basic standard for optimal or perhaps 'desirable' hormonal/neurobiological functionality. The pretense of 'dysfunctional' is a conditioned response to behavioral/biological tendencies of which we deem to be abnormal; however an abnormality does not immediately amount toward 'inadequate' or 'inordinate' functioning.
I wouldn't say that he was murdered... I mean, they didnt force Turing to kill himself, not to undermine the fact that they did terrible things to him, but they didn't murder him.
That, and if you're that prejudice, just scroll down and read the comments while listening, then you're not distracted by appearance. You'll still get the message, grow to appreciate what the person has to offer, and learn to accept the fact that even though his hair resembles that of someone from the planet Psychlo, he's a smart guy. This is definitely a better video than the last one he did on BigThink with social-network marketing.
It wasn't just their army that was rigid, but also, and more importantly, their policies. For the purpose of that particular statement, I am referring to their rigidity as being one of the main factors in their downfall. You're free to disagree if you like, but I'm really not interested in a history debate. Because as much as you might want to argue the finer points, my main point still stands; and that is, no unchanging rule ever lasts.
He wasn't claiming literal "murder," he's using murder to describe the series of events leading up to Turing's suicide, including his imprisonment, loss of security clearance, and forced medication (which caused impotence and gynecomastia, as mentioned in the video.)
I guess you won't be a fan of the episode where they talk about the importance of freezer-windows, so you can keep an eye on your PBR so it won't explode.
the death of turing is such a shame. He died at only 41 years old. Imagine if he would have lived to, say, 70. Imagine the things he would have accomplished, and he would have gotten to see his invention grow incredibly
Sexual persecution of gay men does make use of religious argumentation, but that has deeper and older roots. In a patriarchal society, the idea of being a man is strongly connected to important moral values such as honesty, courage, assertiveness, etc. If "being a man" means being in possession of all those attributes, not wanting to be a man while one is biologically so carries a strong meaning of weakness and treason. That is the true origin of the anti-gay argument.
Now, no, the people don’t want someone to BLAME; what they WANT is a SOLUTION. But having someone to blame is a useful, psychological palliative and therefore a useful component of any manipulation strategy.
Well actually you didn't really do much besides end the war sooner. American boys got slaughtered at the beaches of Normandy so others could live, but the soviet forces outnumbered the axis forces by over 5 million when they marched toward Berlin.
I said "As soon as they no longer offer their people what they want, it starts the countdown to their replacement." Do you think the time the Nazis spent in power, and the time they would have been in power if they had won are at all related? They were in power for a mere decade, which is why the "waves of humanity" statement would not have had time to apply to them. If they had won, they would have been in power for longer, and during peace time. The people would have forced them to moderate.
It's not. When Stephen Fry asked Steve Jobs if it, the Apple logo, is a homage to Turing, Jobs said "God, we wish it were." So to answer your question, the Apple logo is not a homage to Alan Turing, officially.
I'm glad to meet another who understands :) And I never realised how similar to Taoism my philosophy is, until just now, when I did some reading thanks to your hint. Thank you.
When the prime minister says that Britain is a christian country, and it's still avcceptable to start government meetings and the school day with prayers, I don't think we're that much more progressive. Yes, gays will hopefully soon be married, but the church still has a voice in British politics, and our head of state is also head of the church!
Now THAT is Big Think material - genuinely thought provoking, profound, insightful. Great vid. It disgusts me to think that the British government did that to one of its greatest heros, and it disturbs me especially as we are rapidly plumetting towards the big brother state of Britain, with constant survellance, and the people's rights being crushed for the convenience of impersonal overreaching governments in UK, Europe and the USA.
Moderation is inevitable. Humanity is like water in a lot of ways, and one key factor of water is that; when it washes against objects it cannot move, it instead erodes the object. If the Nazis had won the war, but did not moderate, they would have been replaced or destroyed. It's that simple. No matter how advanced or ruthless a government might be, they're still just pebbles to be washed away by the tide whether they agree with the direction of the tide or not.
i like how this story is on the same channel with absolute bullshit. "how to cut your food addiction" "why facebook isnt free" "welcome to the hybrid age" "unconscious decision making" it really shows how much resilience Henry has to this type of pseudo intellectual bullshit.
Very true. And the church of England is kicking and screaming and fighting against the legalisation of gay marriage in the UK now. This is the side that they are allied with. It's an embarrassment to all Britons.
But the problem with that logic, is WHY he committed suicide. Turing probably wouldn't have committed suicide, if he was considered a regular person within society and treated as such. He may have killed himself, but the catalyst was the hatred for his sexuality and what was done to him to change it.
I wish we had that in the UK - People can be and are sent to prison, if a judge finds it to be 'abusive'. I studied AI for one year at Uni and didn't read anything that came close to argue that if a robot fights for it's life then it is worthy of that life. Either I was reading the wrong material, or you need to start writing some! :0)
It's more common than you think. Also, it's all over the animal kingdom as well. Being that it's as prevalent as it is, I wouldn't call it an abnormality.
Turing would be astounded with the computing leaps we've made since his time. Turing would also weep at the homophobic attitudes around still today as displayed by the comments section. You don't hate, only the unloved hate.
Another howler that Turing ‘killed himself in front of his computer’ he died in his bedroom in 1954, desktop computers did not exist in 1954 and he certainly did not have one in his bedroom.
I have visited station X twice and it is an amazing place. Alan Turin was betrayed twice , first by the authorities over his homosexuality whilst reporting a crime done to him. Secondly by Churchill demanding that the computer be destroyed after the war.Enthusiasts rebuilt it years later.
Nice, well chosen words on a tragic British hero. I have read the comments, some are dancing naked upon the La La land of absurdity, but that is fine, we are all entitled to opinions. Calling such people "turds" and making up histories to suit our own narratives is equally stupid. We can't change the past, but we can live our lives so that our courage, compassion and intelligence can dull the blades of ignorance and make suffering a little less likely.
When I speak of flexing with the waves of humanity, I'm talking about being flexible with policies, fitting them to the ebbs and swells of the passions of the nation. The Nazis only got the power they did because they offered the people what they wanted. As soon as they no longer offer their people what they want, it starts the countdown to their replacement. Moderation is the best way to please the masses for prolonged periods, because it is always the neutral stance.
A little off topic here: I don't understand the logic behind his "treatment." Wouldn't it be more likely to "change" his orientation if he was given large doses of MALE hormones not FEMALE hormones? He is already attracted to men, how is turning him into a woman supposed to make him be attracted to women?
I think the captain from "Cool hand Luke" said it best: "What we've got here is failure to communicate Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men" TL;DR: Don't feed the trolls.
Germany lost the war for dozens of reasons- delaying the attack on Russia for two weeks, not having enough blankets or boots for the winter campaign, being outnumbered 4-1, and bad military decisions by Hitler. etc Germany retained enough scientific talent for the fight, , thank you.
No, the Nazis did not gain power by giving the German public what they wanted, but by manipulating the German public into wanting what they had to offer. The Germans (and the Italians as well, for that matter) did not begin to become disenchanted with fascism until their troops began to fail in the battlefield. That was the cause.
I was never aware there was such a conspiracy built around this subject. If nothing else, Mr "Angry you don't take me as an authority" has shown me just how invested some are into a particular narrative.
Whether they go or not, it concerns me greatly that the church's wishes are considered in ritish political decisions. If nobody goes to that church, it's even more scandalous that thet get a say.
I think the regime would almost have had to moderate, since for one thing, the war would have been over, and the atrocities were part of the errors or fog of war, etc. The universe goes in cycles
Uh... Wouldn't giving a gay man, female hormones make them MORE gay??? I have heard that when people get sex changes, their sexual preference can change after they have been on hormones for awhile.
What statement about a countdown? What countdown? “The Nazis were not in power for anywhere near long enough for the forces that I am talking about to come into play.” Huh. So then everything you are saying has nothing whatsoever to do with Wotan’s claim that the Nazi party would have gone on to moderate if they had won the war?
“Anti-semitism had been building in Germany for hundreds of years, since Martin Luther.” Anti-semitism in some semblance had been around in Germany since the Jews first arrive. Prejudice toward a group of people in a country is unavoidable. This is, however, not what I said. The Nazis have always been experts at propaganda. That’s how they got power and that’s how they held onto it; by being extreme, and they grew more extreme with every new victory.
It's possible that after treatment you would enter a program that simulates a nightclub patronized by women in short skirts. Women who were recently lesbians and have also just finished being reprogrammed.
i FOUGHT someone's suggestion to me that there was a conspiracy behind his death. but one day, daydreaming about how to Challange a turing test passing ai, by forcing neurotransmitter spiking behavior reactions, and judging if it could meet expectations (like, blade runner i guess)...... i stopped.... and envisioned a computer that physically could do that. immediately, i realized if you look at turing, seeing him mimicing snow white by eating a poisoned apple ... stop and try to find another snow white character in his life. the dwarves? no. prince charming? no. the evil queen? the witch? a bird? nope........ BUT..... think about THE MIRROR. ask it a question, ( and like google) it gives you an answer. an all knowing, immediately responsive, tool, that only responds as needed on command... and, it has " a human character " it displays, instead of the asker. Thats pretty much, a perfect AI system, resembling a person and almost indistinguishable by a turing test. plus, technically glass, even in mirrors are considered liquid. so, an ai endowed liquid computer = mirror now where can we find "a mirror" in his life? go to the cyanide first .... where did that come from? his job. a lab. would a coworker kill him? not sure. so find a reason. look back in his life. immediately you see, the last thing he did was publish a paper on.... "morphogenesis" the self formation of non organic molecules. why? to create a non organic /artificial life.. an AI? from just a blob of chemicals. moving, flowing. like in water. (like collections of the neurotransmitters i mentioned earlier) so...... now could we put someone along side turing, like a secretly involved competitor (like the witch,) would it also ask..... Ai ai on the wall who is the cleverest of them all And what if, it said TURING? i think a secret operative competitor plant would grab some cyanide and attempt to kill "mr snow white" since he liked her so much (and hey , he ain't got no balls anyhow) morophogenenis was just proven to be able to build a self building liquid ai computer. in theory And ibm just finished their synapse project with self regulating neuron like networks inside, and uses liquids to do so. wasnt ibm feeding nazis adding machines. could ibm, take all of turings info, shelf the ai, but focus on his more basic steps into computers? hmmmmmm. makes one think
People should remember Turing of course, I just wish people also remembered Tommy Flowers in the history of computing. Never heard of him? That's what Google's for. :)
So Lanier wants to discredit the brain-computer metaphor. Not in a position to gainsay the genius of Turing, he instead argues that Turing must not have meant what he said.
I very much hope so. I have hope that mankind is evolving emotionally and intellectually, and eventually the entire planet will reach a state of enlightenment, but looking at US politics right now, I fear that we simply cycle endlessly between extreme tolerance and extreme bigotry.
when i first read the book i was crying like crazy. he is the one who saved 14 million people, saves a whole country n now Govt did this to him.
Book name please?
If he could see how much he is loved today I know it would bring a little tear to his eye, celebrate Alan Turing day June 23!
its 2 days from today. I will remember it
Thank you for posting this video. When I first heard Turing's story I cried. He saved the lives and freedom of millions of people. Those same people expressed their gratitude by taking his freedom and causing his death.
In 1991, a British organization (I don’t remember the name) uncovered his designs, realized that all the necessary technology now existed, and built it, and it functioned exactly as he predicted. If the funding had continued, humanity could have had computers a century sooner; computers very different from the electronic models we think of now, but computers just the same.
he laced the apple with cyanide because his favorite movie during the time was Snow White...and his mood had darkened. There is a great bio of him on RadioLab, look it up, it's an incredible story.
It's like an old saying: The WW2 was won through American Steel, British Intelligence and Soviet Blood.
Amazing Video! Thank you Jaron Lanier for reminding the computer community (everyone on here!) of the context and truly profound insight into the "mind" of Mr. Turing (R.I.P.).
Such a keen analysis...best bigthink video I've seen yet.
Who knew that one uber smart nerd talking about another uber smart nerd would be one of the most moving things on RUclips?
worst part is. it not so long ago! he is a war hero but still no one excepted that he was gay! and its not so many years he was excepted as gay and a hero! the world is so unfair!
Many of the most brilliant thinkers and pioneers in science and elsewhere had what we commonly consider(ed) to be psychological or cognitive 'disorders'- e.g. Einstein, Ludwig Wittgenstein, Isaac Newton, Beethoven, Thomas Edison, ect.
Tragic. We must keep fighting for equality, we cannot back down. For Turing and so many victims like him... fight for respect and acceptance.
You make an interesting point. The quality of his mind and his arguments are not affected by his appearance, but if the messenger causes people to dislike the message, is it his fault or theirs? Should he recognise the need for a certain amount of conformity, or should we overcome our prejudices? If he was an artist or a musician, his look would make him MORE credible. Maybe we are just too limited in our thinking?
Saw this guy live at a TEDx Portland event. Brilliant
"Moderation is inevitable."
I don't see how you figure this.
"Humanity is like water in a lot of ways, and one key factor of water is that; when it washes against objects it cannot move, it instead erodes the object."
I don't see how being like water in a LOT of ways makes humanity like water in THIS way.
Well, I don't have the right background to understand all the technical details, but Babbage was a 19th century mathematician. He drew up plans for a computing machine that ran on steam instead of electricity. Unfortunately, his plans to build it were seriously hindered by the fact that all the necessary technology had to be invented as he went along. Eventually, his sponsors ran out of patience and cut him off.
This video says that Turing's ideas about AI and the Turing Test were conceived weeks before Turing's suicide in 1954, while under the influence of mind distorting injections. In fact, the Turing Test paper was published in 1950, four years before his death, and two years before Turing's arrest, conviction and forced hormone injections in 1952.
I think it's perfectly fair to disagree with Turing's arguments, but unfair to slander him as incompentent based on untrue facts. I also think Lanier misrepresents Turing's arguments, but that's debatable. When Turing wrote the paper is not.
This video also makes several other untrue claims, but this is the main argument of the video.
Alan Turing was one of the greatest people. Its a shame the Official secret acts stopped people talking about all the great things he did in the war. Also I've liked everything Jason Lanier says on Big Think.
Alan Turing was in the process of putting together another of his calculation machines, using potassium cyanide in the electroplating process. It is completely possible that the fumes of the cyanide was what accidently killed him. There was never any form of forensic test performed on the apple he had been munching on, nor was a full and proper autopsy performed on him, and noting his high level of intellect and his propensity for being an "absent-minded professor", it is most likely his cause of death was the accidental inhalation of cyanide fumes, NOT a suicide....! Rest in peace Alan......!
Take your pick of any civilisation that has ever existed. All the famous ones went prolonged periods without changing, becoming inflexiable and then slowly losing their grip.
The Roman empire is a good example. People got sick of them, and after some time had passed, and what was once and incredibly disciplined military became clumsily rigid, they were destroyed.
It can take a long time, but no rule ever lasts unless they flex with the waves of humanity.
I can't think of the last time that I read such a profound comment on RUclips - thank you, you are among the few!
RIP A.Turing
You deserved so much better than that which we gave you :(
He makes a fantastic point in this video, but you didn't really address my question - you simply explained how to not be distracted by his appearance - if it was distracting.
The dilemma that inherently accompanies that assumption is that you simultaneously presume that there is a basic standard for optimal or perhaps 'desirable' hormonal/neurobiological functionality. The pretense of 'dysfunctional' is a conditioned response to behavioral/biological tendencies of which we deem to be abnormal; however an abnormality does not immediately amount toward 'inadequate' or 'inordinate' functioning.
I wouldn't say that he was murdered... I mean, they didnt force Turing to kill himself, not to undermine the fact that they did terrible things to him, but they didn't murder him.
That, and if you're that prejudice, just scroll down and read the comments while listening, then you're not distracted by appearance. You'll still get the message, grow to appreciate what the person has to offer, and learn to accept the fact that even though his hair resembles that of someone from the planet Psychlo, he's a smart guy. This is definitely a better video than the last one he did on BigThink with social-network marketing.
I love this guy, more please.
Tragic
But more tragic this is still happening today.
It wasn't just their army that was rigid, but also, and more importantly, their policies. For the purpose of that particular statement, I am referring to their rigidity as being one of the main factors in their downfall.
You're free to disagree if you like, but I'm really not interested in a history debate. Because as much as you might want to argue the finer points, my main point still stands; and that is, no unchanging rule ever lasts.
He wasn't claiming literal "murder," he's using murder to describe the series of events leading up to Turing's suicide, including his imprisonment, loss of security clearance, and forced medication (which caused impotence and gynecomastia, as mentioned in the video.)
I guess you won't be a fan of the episode where they talk about the importance of freezer-windows, so you can keep an eye on your PBR so it won't explode.
What was shocking to me as I watched this video was how little I knew about Alan Turing. Time to fix that, I think.
the death of turing is such a shame. He died at only 41 years old. Imagine if he would have lived to, say, 70. Imagine the things he would have accomplished, and he would have gotten to see his invention grow incredibly
MAY HE NOW BE IN PEACE.
Sexual persecution of gay men does make use of religious argumentation, but that has deeper and older roots.
In a patriarchal society, the idea of being a man is strongly connected to important moral values such as honesty, courage, assertiveness, etc.
If "being a man" means being in possession of all those attributes, not wanting to be a man while one is biologically so carries a strong meaning of weakness and treason.
That is the true origin of the anti-gay argument.
Now, no, the people don’t want someone to BLAME; what they WANT is a SOLUTION. But having someone to blame is a useful, psychological palliative and therefore a useful component of any manipulation strategy.
Well actually you didn't really do much besides end the war sooner. American boys got slaughtered at the beaches of Normandy so others could live, but the soviet forces outnumbered the axis forces by over 5 million when they marched toward Berlin.
I said "As soon as they no longer offer their people what they want, it starts the countdown to their replacement."
Do you think the time the Nazis spent in power, and the time they would have been in power if they had won are at all related? They were in power for a mere decade, which is why the "waves of humanity" statement would not have had time to apply to them. If they had won, they would have been in power for longer, and during peace time. The people would have forced them to moderate.
It's not. When Stephen Fry asked Steve Jobs if it, the Apple logo, is a homage to Turing, Jobs said "God, we wish it were." So to answer your question, the Apple logo is not a homage to Alan Turing, officially.
I'm glad to meet another who understands :) And I never realised how similar to Taoism my philosophy is, until just now, when I did some reading thanks to your hint. Thank you.
When the prime minister says that Britain is a christian country, and it's still avcceptable to start government meetings and the school day with prayers, I don't think we're that much more progressive. Yes, gays will hopefully soon be married, but the church still has a voice in British politics, and our head of state is also head of the church!
Now THAT is Big Think material - genuinely thought provoking, profound, insightful. Great vid.
It disgusts me to think that the British government did that to one of its greatest heros, and it disturbs me especially as we are rapidly plumetting towards the big brother state of Britain, with constant survellance, and the people's rights being crushed for the convenience of impersonal overreaching governments in UK, Europe and the USA.
Turing never wrote anything about treating machines like people.
Moderation is inevitable.
Humanity is like water in a lot of ways, and one key factor of water is that; when it washes against objects it cannot move, it instead erodes the object.
If the Nazis had won the war, but did not moderate, they would have been replaced or destroyed. It's that simple. No matter how advanced or ruthless a government might be, they're still just pebbles to be washed away by the tide whether they agree with the direction of the tide or not.
Well articulated. I agree completely.
What an awful thing to happen to an individual.
i like how this story is on the same channel with absolute bullshit. "how to cut your food addiction" "why facebook isnt free" "welcome to the hybrid age" "unconscious decision making" it really shows how much resilience Henry has to this type of pseudo intellectual bullshit.
Very true. And the church of England is kicking and screaming and fighting against the legalisation of gay marriage in the UK now. This is the side that they are allied with. It's an embarrassment to all Britons.
Love the speech!
But the problem with that logic, is WHY he committed suicide.
Turing probably wouldn't have committed suicide, if he was considered a regular person within society and treated as such. He may have killed himself, but the catalyst was the hatred for his sexuality and what was done to him to change it.
How we treated Turing. What a tragedy
I'd rather see an apology than a pardon. A pardon sort of says it's still a problem, but were going to pretend it didn't happen.
I wish we had that in the UK - People can be and are sent to prison, if a judge finds it to be 'abusive'.
I studied AI for one year at Uni and didn't read anything that came close to argue that if a robot fights for it's life then it is worthy of that life. Either I was reading the wrong material, or you need to start writing some! :0)
Every soldier in the field is fighting for a new and better world. Just ask him. This belief is absolutely sincere. Doesn't make the notion true.
Now you are asking me to believe that the public in both countries would have become disenchanted with fascism without that cause? It's nonsense.
I agreed up until the point when he said that Turing was murdered for being gay. If I remember correctly, you just said it was suicide.
Wasn't it Tommy Flowers who designed and built Colossus?
Yes
It's more common than you think. Also, it's all over the animal kingdom as well. Being that it's as prevalent as it is, I wouldn't call it an abnormality.
Turing would be astounded with the computing leaps we've made since his time. Turing would also weep at the homophobic attitudes around still today as displayed by the comments section.
You don't hate, only the unloved hate.
That isn't even a cohesive sentence.
Jaron's bigthink vids aren't bad. More please.
Another howler that Turing ‘killed himself in front of his computer’ he died in his bedroom in 1954, desktop computers did not exist in 1954 and he certainly did not have one in his bedroom.
I have visited station X twice and it is an amazing place. Alan Turin was betrayed twice , first by the authorities over his homosexuality whilst reporting a crime done to him. Secondly by Churchill demanding that the computer be destroyed after the war.Enthusiasts rebuilt it years later.
Nice, well chosen words on a tragic British hero.
I have read the comments, some are dancing naked upon the La La land of absurdity, but that is fine, we are all entitled to opinions. Calling such people "turds" and making up histories to suit our own narratives is equally stupid.
We can't change the past, but we can live our lives so that our courage, compassion and intelligence can dull the blades of ignorance and make suffering a little less likely.
So if someone doesn't BEG for their life they aren't worthy of life?
When I speak of flexing with the waves of humanity, I'm talking about being flexible with policies, fitting them to the ebbs and swells of the passions of the nation. The Nazis only got the power they did because they offered the people what they wanted. As soon as they no longer offer their people what they want, it starts the countdown to their replacement.
Moderation is the best way to please the masses for prolonged periods, because it is always the neutral stance.
A little off topic here: I don't understand the logic behind his "treatment." Wouldn't it be more likely to "change" his orientation if he was given large doses of MALE hormones not FEMALE hormones? He is already attracted to men, how is turning him into a woman supposed to make him be attracted to women?
I think the captain from "Cool hand Luke" said it best: "What we've got here is failure to communicate Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men"
TL;DR: Don't feed the trolls.
How could atrocities that preceded a war have been part of it?
Germany lost the war for dozens of reasons- delaying the attack on Russia for two weeks, not having enough blankets or boots for the winter campaign, being outnumbered 4-1, and bad military decisions by Hitler. etc Germany retained enough scientific talent for the fight, , thank you.
If they don't define who you are then cut them.
That was very well said - Well done to you sir :)
No, the Nazis did not gain power by giving the German public what they wanted, but by manipulating the German public into wanting what they had to offer. The Germans (and the Italians as well, for that matter) did not begin to become disenchanted with fascism until their troops began to fail in the battlefield. That was the cause.
Great man , I wished he had invented the cure of bigotry which clearly delays the progress of humanity,
Yes
I wish he would have discovered how to get rid of the people who run the globe.....the biggest bigots in the world
Yeah and most of the places you plug things into them are in the back.
I was never aware there was such a conspiracy built around this subject. If nothing else, Mr "Angry you don't take me as an authority" has shown me just how invested some are into a particular narrative.
I’m not hearing any ideas here being attributed to Turing that were not formulated far earlier by Charles Babbage.
Whether they go or not, it concerns me greatly that the church's wishes are considered in ritish political decisions. If nobody goes to that church, it's even more scandalous that thet get a say.
I like this guy. Add him to the list of big thinkers that actually make us think.
I think the regime would almost have had to moderate, since for one thing, the war would have been over, and the atrocities were part of the errors or fog of war, etc. The universe goes in cycles
Uh... Wouldn't giving a gay man, female hormones make them MORE gay??? I have heard that when people get sex changes, their sexual preference can change after they have been on hormones for awhile.
Nice overview
What does "flexing with the waves of humanity" have to do with "moderating?" What is "flexing with the waves of humanity," anyway?
Poor Alan Turing. God rest.
What statement about a countdown? What countdown?
“The Nazis were not in power for anywhere near long enough for the forces that I am talking about to come into play.”
Huh. So then everything you are saying has nothing whatsoever to do with Wotan’s claim that the Nazi party would have gone on to moderate if they had won the war?
You know what. I suspected that this was mostly fake. This bigthink stuff is really going down the drain.
“Anti-semitism had been building in Germany for hundreds of years, since Martin Luther.”
Anti-semitism in some semblance had been around in Germany since the Jews first arrive. Prejudice toward a group of people in a country is unavoidable. This is, however, not what I said.
The Nazis have always been experts at propaganda. That’s how they got power and that’s how they held onto it; by being extreme, and they grew more extreme with every new victory.
Jaron Lanier is friken brilliant.
finally a BigThink that indeed lights a new bulb in my head. Thank your.
It's possible that after treatment you would enter a program that simulates a nightclub patronized by women in short skirts. Women who were recently lesbians and have also just finished being reprogrammed.
And Al Bundy once scored 4 touchdowns in one game. Never stopped sitting on his couch, cock in hand, reminding us of that fateful day.
He laced the apple with cyanide because he was very fond of the story of snow white
i FOUGHT someone's suggestion to me that there was a conspiracy behind his death. but one day, daydreaming about how to Challange a turing test passing ai, by forcing neurotransmitter spiking behavior reactions, and judging if it could meet expectations (like, blade runner i guess)...... i stopped.... and envisioned a computer that physically could do that. immediately, i realized if you look at turing, seeing him mimicing snow white by eating a poisoned apple ... stop and try to find another snow white character in his life. the dwarves? no. prince charming? no. the evil queen? the witch? a bird? nope........ BUT..... think about THE MIRROR. ask it a question, ( and like google) it gives you an answer. an all knowing, immediately responsive, tool, that only responds as needed on command... and, it has " a human character " it displays, instead of the asker. Thats pretty much, a perfect AI system, resembling a person and almost indistinguishable by a turing test.
plus, technically glass, even in mirrors are considered liquid.
so, an ai endowed liquid computer = mirror
now where can we find "a mirror" in his life?
go to the cyanide first ....
where did that come from?
his job. a lab.
would a coworker kill him?
not sure. so find a reason. look back in his life.
immediately you see, the last thing he did was publish a paper on.... "morphogenesis"
the self formation of non organic molecules.
why? to create a non organic /artificial life.. an AI? from just a blob of chemicals. moving, flowing. like in water.
(like collections of the neurotransmitters i mentioned earlier)
so...... now could we put someone along side turing, like a secretly involved competitor (like the witch,)
would it also ask.....
Ai ai on the wall who is the cleverest of them all
And what if, it said TURING?
i think a secret operative competitor plant would grab some cyanide and attempt to kill "mr snow white" since he liked her so much (and hey , he ain't got no balls anyhow)
morophogenenis was just proven to be able to build a self building liquid ai computer. in theory
And ibm just finished their synapse project with self regulating neuron like networks inside, and uses liquids to do so.
wasnt ibm feeding nazis adding machines.
could ibm, take all of turings info, shelf the ai, but focus on his more basic steps into computers?
hmmmmmm. makes one think
one of the best videos here.
This guy is like, you know, smarter than anyone I know personally...
What is the point of this talk?
People should remember Turing of course, I just wish people also remembered Tommy Flowers in the history of computing. Never heard of him? That's what Google's for. :)
So Lanier wants to discredit the brain-computer metaphor. Not in a position to gainsay the genius of Turing, he instead argues that Turing must not have meant what he said.
I never knew half of this. Very sad.
I very much hope so. I have hope that mankind is evolving emotionally and intellectually, and eventually the entire planet will reach a state of enlightenment, but looking at US politics right now, I fear that we simply cycle endlessly between extreme tolerance and extreme bigotry.