What an interesting story Fr. Seth! In listening I kept thinking of how you really seem to exhibit the fruit of the Spirit list in Galatians. May God bless your ministry and the Old Catholic Church communion. I do love your emphasis on the unity of Christian’s partaking of the Lord’s Supper. - a true foretaste of our future home.
This interview was super interesting. It reminds me of the early lessons in basic reasoning and dialectic a lot of us Apologetics nerds learned early on in our journeys. Many of us have transitioned into the denominational debates in recent years and have seemingly forgotten those early things we learned. Excellent reminders!
The algorithm has me on a great slide on apologists against dogmatic claims that oversimplify the strength of Rome's claims for itself. Thanks for your work.
I always been drawn to the Anglican church, old catholic, Episcopal, and I'm catholic currently. Im interested in studying the bible and possibly going to school for it to better serve people in a church or ministry.
This was intriguing, but i feel like a follow up is needed to explain what exactly the Old Catholic communion believes and how it is distinct from Protestantism and other Ecclesialist traditions e.g. views on justification, tradition, Mariology, prayers to saints, icons etc, I.e. if Fr. Murray was trying to convince the wandering member of the proverbial Pastor Jim’s Bible church to join Old Catholicism vs. another tradition what would he highlight?
It can be difficult to define what a specific Christian Church is in and of itself. I think that the OCCNA bishops would say that we aren't really Roman Catholic, nor are we Eastern Orthodox, nor Protestant/Evangelical, etc. Rather, we are what these and any other authentic Christian Church have in common, and our focus is simply on attempting to follow the teachings of Christ as they come to us through the witness of Scripture and the example of the early Church, especially in the first few centuries. You might think of it as a "Mere Christianity" kind of approach. If "it" was taught as an important part of the Gospel in the early Church, then you will likely find it in the OCCNA. If it wasn't, then it might still be present but optional. If "it" is contrary to the Gospel, then we will omit or reject it. I'm sure that they can explain it better than I can. :) Of course, many different communities might make exactly the same claim. For details on specific questions, a good place to start will be the web site for the Old Catholic Communion of North America. There you will find statements from the bishops, the church's canons and rules, statement of faith, answers to specific contemporary questions, and similar. As I mentioned in the video, doctrinally we are very similar to early Christianity and/or Orthodoxy. Liturgically we look more "western" and Roman, though there is some variance among the parishes, depending upon the local community and directives from the bishops.
The Old Catholic Church that "ordains" women and accepts homosexuality. It is simply another one of many groups which have seperated from the Church founded by Christ. Like all the Protestant sects before it, they do not possess that divine organ of infallibility to decide doctrine, given by Christ to His church . Thus they have have drifted into heresy and there is nothing to stop them drifting further into heresy. These 2 presenters simply waffle on in an echo-chamber of doctrinal confusion.
@@DD-bx8rb, spamming the whole forum with the same lies doesn't magically make them true. Please don't pretend to be a Christian while you deliberately and repeatedly post confusing lies about others. God calls all of us to do better than this.
Hey Brother can you talk about the Eastern Orthodox church not having a canon of Scripture ? I can send you a link where it talks about how they don’t have a canon
What do you mean when you say they "do not have a canon"? To my knowledge, each Orthodox Church does have a canon, and they are largely similar across the various Orthodox churches.
Yes, there is substantial evidence of general absolution and forgiveness being offered without any detailed or private confessions in the early church. There is basically zero evidence of private confession -- let alone mandated private confession -- in the first two centuries. Rather, public confession was actually quite common. However, this sometimes caused scandal and gossip, leading to a custom of private confession.
As a rocor catechumen I find it very interesting that every other schismatic Church will allow us to take communion at their Church but the same cannot be said about our church.
Did the Old Catholic Church accept the papal bulls even tho they were a departe from the Roman Catholic Church? It sounds like probably not, but I'm curious as to the impact those had on them in America.
I'm beginning to understanding why continuing Anglicans are seeking dialogue ans possibly communion with old catholic churches. We're not that different.
Since you are interviewing people who have rejected the First Vatican Council (old catholics), it might be interesting to hear an interview with someone who rejects the Second Vatican Council (sedevacantist/sedeprivationist)! I'm at least half serious. I follow a number of sedevacantist channels and accounts with interest and I think they make a pretty good case that the church actually changed many of its teachings during or after the Second Vatican Council. They are not Protestant (one might say they are more Catholic than the Pope himself!), but they offer an interesting perspective on modern Catholicism. I remember there was a little drama when Jeff Cassman (SSPX) and Br. Peter Dimond debated on Matt Fradd's channel and the consensus seemed to be that Dimond won the debate. Dimond as a person is a bit of a conspiracy nut, but I've come across quite normal sedevacantists. And I don't mean this as an insult to Dimond! Francis has at least worked hard to make the sedevacantists and the "Recognize and Resist" SSPX more popular. :-) Some sedevacantists even have their own bishops, seminaries, monasteries, etc. Then there are some "home alone sedevacantists" who just pray the rosary at home and don't believe that we have any valid masses on earth at all. James White's former debate partner Gerry Matatics goes into the latter category!
Just be clear: It is true that Old Catholic Christians reject the First Vatican Council. However, they generally do not acknowledge any councils after the 8th century as binding (and the acceptance of those earlier is not as rigorous as, say, the various Orthodox). Vatican I was a proverbial "last straw" that led to a large unwinding of theological pressures that had built up over a thousand years.
@javierperd2604 could I send you an email or ask for your guidance as a pastor some time? I am Jesus Rodriguez and need some help regarding sin, denominations, and my relationship with God as topics.
@@javierperd2604 The Old Catholic Church that "ordains" women and accepts homosexuality. It is simply another one of many groups which have seperated from the Church founded by Christ. Like all the Protestant sects before it, they do not possess that divine organ of infallibility to decide doctrine, given by Christ to His church . Thus they have have drifted into heresy and there is nothing to stop them drifting further into heresy. These 2 presenters simply waffle on in an echo-chamber of doctrinal confusion.
The early church did not believe in a non bloody sacrifice though. That is one of the main problems besides the co mediatrix Mary doctrine, I ha s with Rome and EO
Woops... the presenter brought up the issue Murray did NOT want him to....he is a Catholic who never actually understood the Faith and spent his life drifting around in the doctrinal abyss that is Protestantism. Really, this is quite lame.
Murray holds graduate degrees in theology and philosophy from respected Roman Catholic colleges and seminaries. He taught theology, philosophy, and more for a Roman Catholic archdiocese, multiple parishes, as well as for Catholic colleges and academies for years. It might be comforting for you to believe that the reason he left Roman Catholicism is because he didn't understand it, but the reasons that he left are clearly articulated in the video, and have nothing to do with any lack of understanding Rome's teachings. If Murray said anything that was false about Rome's doctrines, then feel free to point it out. Otherwise, those with any training in philosophy (or who watched the video) can see that your claims are little more than ad hominem attacks.
@@philoalethia I said what I said. Also, there is a multitude of heresies down through the centuries, with a majority of them being led by led by clerics. Murray was not even a cleric. Your point is moot.
@@philoalethia I said what I said. Furthermore, there is a multitude of heresies down through the centuries, with a majority of them being led by led by clerics. Murray was not even a cleric. Your point is moot.
You have reduced this man's life and faith in Christ to a line in a RUclips comment. It is almost as if it is self-evident that what you are saying is uncharitable, non-truth seeking, and dignity destroying. This attitude doesn't couple with truth nor is it in line with the fruit of the spirit.
@@ethanstrunk7698: I believe that Murray is sincere in his beliefs, but that doesn't negate the fact that he is giving wrong information regarding Catholic doctrines.
Yet, faith ALONE and Scripture ALONE, are man made traditions not found in Holy Scripture, or the Church authority that existed way before the the testament was ever written! Holy Scripture teaches we must cooperate with God's saving grace and repent and bear fruit and forgive others and love one another and keep the commandments and persevere to the end to be saved! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink
@@philoalethia I did watch the video. Did you? Indeed, it is relevant, as the Old Catholic Church that existed way before the new testament was ever written, didn't practice Scripture ALONE and faith Alone! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink
@@philoalethia Yes, @matthewbroderick6287 comment is very relevant. The Old Catholic Church that "ordains" women and accepts homosexuality. It is simply another one of many groups which have seperated from the Church founded by Christ. Like all the Protestant sects before it, they do not possess that divine organ of infallibility to decide doctrine, given by Christ to His church . Thus they have have drifted into heresy and there is nothing to stop them drifting further into heresy. These 2 presenters simply waffle on in an echo-chamber of doctrinal confusion.
PLEASE COME HOME TO THE FULLNESS OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH YOUR SYMBOL SERVICES WILL BECOME THE EUCARIST ENOUGH OF THE FLUFF REPENT NOW MARY AWAITS YOU AND SO DO WE
Yes, the Old Catholic Church that "ordains" women and accepts homosexuality. It is simply another one of many groups which have seperated from the Church founded by Christ. Like all the Protestant sects before it, they do not possess that divine organ of infallibility to decide doctrine, given by Christ to His church . Thus they have have drifted into heresy and there is nothing to stop them drifting further into heresy. These 2 presenters simply waffle on in an echo-chamber of doctrinal confusion.
@DD-bx8rb writes: " The Old Catholic Church that "ordains" women and accepts homosexuality. It is simply another one of many groups which have seperated from the Church founded by Christ." *SIGH* Friend, you should watch the video before writing words about it. Otherwise you are just exposing your ignorance and judgmentalism -- neither of which are of Christ. "... they do not possess that divine organ of infallibility to decide doctrine, given by Christ to His church ..." Well... neither do you, and to believe that you do when you do not is delusional and quite dangerous. "Thus they have have drifted into heresy and there is nothing to stop them drifting further into heresy." Now you are merely accusing others of what you actually do. Again, you are not acting in keeping with the teachings of Christ, nor even basic sense here. To falsely assert that the video promotes the ordination of women and the acceptance of homosexuality, while claiming to be infallible, is, frankly, worthy of referral to a therapist and perhaps some psychological medication. Further, to make such claims while your own "infallible" church *actually* promotes the blessing of same sex couples and acknowledges female bishops makes me wonder if you are merely playing a joke. If you would like to have a serious, adult, Christian conversation, a good place to start would be to actually watch the video and only then comment upon something that was said in it. Another honest tactic would be to post your comment ONCE rather than pepper copies of it throughout the comments.
@@carpediem5526Who said there are not Catholic priests who are homosexual? I said the Old Catholic Church has doctrinally endorsed homosexuality. And without a divinely guaranteed organ of of infallible teaching, there is nothing to prevent it slipping further into heresy. "The church is the pillar and foundation of truth" (1Tim 3:15) and NOT the individual interpretations of a group/individual
Yes, the Old Catholic Church that "ordains" women and accepts homosexuality. It is simply another one of many groups which have seperated from the Church founded by Christ. Like all the Protestant sects before it, they do not possess that divine organ of infallibility to decide doctrine, given by Christ to His church . Thus they have have drifted into heresy and there is nothing to stop them drifting further into heresy. These 2 presenters simply waffle on in an echo-chamber of doctrinal confusion.
@DD-bx8rb writes: " The Old Catholic Church that "ordains" women and accepts homosexuality. It is simply another one of many groups which have seperated from the Church founded by Christ." *SIGH* Friend, you should watch the video before writing words about it. Otherwise you are just exposing your ignorance and judgmentalism -- neither of which are of Christ. "... they do not possess that divine organ of infallibility to decide doctrine, given by Christ to His church ..." Well... neither do you, and to believe that you do when you do not is delusional and quite dangerous. "Thus they have have drifted into heresy and there is nothing to stop them drifting further into heresy." Now you are merely accusing others of what you actually do. Again, you are not acting in keeping with the teachings of Christ, nor even basic sense here. To falsely assert that the video promotes the ordination of women and the acceptance of homosexuality, while claiming to be infallible, is, frankly, worthy of referral to a therapist and perhaps some psychological medication. Further, to make such claims while your own "infallible" church *actually* promotes the blessing of same sex couples and acknowledges female bishops makes me wonder if you are merely playing a joke. If you would like to have a serious, adult, Christian conversation, a good place to start would be to actually watch the video and only then comment upon something that was said in it. Another honest tactic would be to post your comment ONCE rather than pepper copies of it throughout the comments.
@@jeffkardosjr.3825 The Polish National Church, likewise, does not possess the unifying and authoritative office of Peter, and so there is nothing to stop them from drifting further into heresy.
Really enjoyed talking with Javier here. He was a gracious host.
Thank you again for taking the time to speak with me -- it was a joy having you on the channel! 😁
What an interesting story Fr. Seth! In listening I kept thinking of how you really seem to exhibit the fruit of the Spirit list in Galatians. May God bless your ministry and the Old Catholic Church communion. I do love your emphasis on the unity of Christian’s partaking of the Lord’s Supper. - a true foretaste of our future home.
Fr. Murray strikes me as an authentically devout man
This interview was super interesting. It reminds me of the early lessons in basic reasoning and dialectic a lot of us Apologetics nerds learned early on in our journeys.
Many of us have transitioned into the denominational debates in recent years and have seemingly forgotten those early things we learned.
Excellent reminders!
I loved this interview. I learned a lot about the Old Catholic Church. Thank you both. 🙏🏿
The algorithm has me on a great slide on apologists against dogmatic claims that oversimplify the strength of Rome's claims for itself. Thanks for your work.
I always been drawn to the Anglican church, old catholic, Episcopal, and I'm catholic currently. Im interested in studying the bible and possibly going to school for it to better serve people in a church or ministry.
This was intriguing, but i feel like a follow up is needed to explain what exactly the Old Catholic communion believes and how it is distinct from Protestantism and other Ecclesialist traditions e.g. views on justification, tradition, Mariology, prayers to saints, icons etc, I.e. if Fr. Murray was trying to convince the wandering member of the proverbial Pastor Jim’s Bible church to join Old Catholicism vs. another tradition what would he highlight?
It can be difficult to define what a specific Christian Church is in and of itself. I think that the OCCNA bishops would say that we aren't really Roman Catholic, nor are we Eastern Orthodox, nor Protestant/Evangelical, etc. Rather, we are what these and any other authentic Christian Church have in common, and our focus is simply on attempting to follow the teachings of Christ as they come to us through the witness of Scripture and the example of the early Church, especially in the first few centuries. You might think of it as a "Mere Christianity" kind of approach. If "it" was taught as an important part of the Gospel in the early Church, then you will likely find it in the OCCNA. If it wasn't, then it might still be present but optional. If "it" is contrary to the Gospel, then we will omit or reject it.
I'm sure that they can explain it better than I can. :)
Of course, many different communities might make exactly the same claim. For details on specific questions, a good place to start will be the web site for the Old Catholic Communion of North America. There you will find statements from the bishops, the church's canons and rules, statement of faith, answers to specific contemporary questions, and similar.
As I mentioned in the video, doctrinally we are very similar to early Christianity and/or Orthodoxy. Liturgically we look more "western" and Roman, though there is some variance among the parishes, depending upon the local community and directives from the bishops.
The Old Catholic Church that "ordains" women and accepts homosexuality. It is simply another one of many groups which have seperated from the Church founded by Christ. Like all the Protestant sects before it, they do not possess that divine organ of infallibility to decide doctrine, given by Christ to His church . Thus they have have drifted into heresy and there is nothing to stop them drifting further into heresy. These 2 presenters simply waffle on in an echo-chamber of doctrinal confusion.
@@DD-bx8rb, spamming the whole forum with the same lies doesn't magically make them true. Please don't pretend to be a Christian while you deliberately and repeatedly post confusing lies about others. God calls all of us to do better than this.
@@DD-bx8rbHahaha! Love your comedy comment!
@@pipsheppard6747 Comedy? These are facts. Why the fear?
Great interview! I was looking forward to this one.
Hey Brother can you talk about the Eastern Orthodox church not having a canon of Scripture ? I can send you a link where it talks about how they don’t have a canon
What do you mean when you say they "do not have a canon"? To my knowledge, each Orthodox Church does have a canon, and they are largely similar across the various Orthodox churches.
Is the general absolution something that the early church practiced? My Anglican parish does this.
Yes, there is substantial evidence of general absolution and forgiveness being offered without any detailed or private confessions in the early church. There is basically zero evidence of private confession -- let alone mandated private confession -- in the first two centuries. Rather, public confession was actually quite common. However, this sometimes caused scandal and gossip, leading to a custom of private confession.
As a rocor catechumen I find it very interesting that every other schismatic Church will allow us to take communion at their Church but the same cannot be said about our church.
Did the Old Catholic Church accept the papal bulls even tho they were a departe from the Roman Catholic Church? It sounds like probably not, but I'm curious as to the impact those had on them in America.
I'm beginning to understanding why continuing Anglicans are seeking dialogue ans possibly communion with old catholic churches. We're not that different.
Prayers for all my brothers in Christ . Come back home focus on the Eucharistic let Jesus talk to you.
Since you are interviewing people who have rejected the First Vatican Council (old catholics), it might be interesting to hear an interview with someone who rejects the Second Vatican Council (sedevacantist/sedeprivationist)!
I'm at least half serious. I follow a number of sedevacantist channels and accounts with interest and I think they make a pretty good case that the church actually changed many of its teachings during or after the Second Vatican Council. They are not Protestant (one might say they are more Catholic than the Pope himself!), but they offer an interesting perspective on modern Catholicism.
I remember there was a little drama when Jeff Cassman (SSPX) and Br. Peter Dimond debated on Matt Fradd's channel and the consensus seemed to be that Dimond won the debate. Dimond as a person is a bit of a conspiracy nut, but I've come across quite normal sedevacantists. And I don't mean this as an insult to Dimond!
Francis has at least worked hard to make the sedevacantists and the "Recognize and Resist" SSPX more popular. :-) Some sedevacantists even have their own bishops, seminaries, monasteries, etc. Then there are some "home alone sedevacantists" who just pray the rosary at home and don't believe that we have any valid masses on earth at all. James White's former debate partner Gerry Matatics goes into the latter category!
That is a really interesting idea-- thank you for suggesting it!
I may look into that for sure.
Just be clear: It is true that Old Catholic Christians reject the First Vatican Council. However, they generally do not acknowledge any councils after the 8th century as binding (and the acceptance of those earlier is not as rigorous as, say, the various Orthodox). Vatican I was a proverbial "last straw" that led to a large unwinding of theological pressures that had built up over a thousand years.
@javierperd2604 could I send you an email or ask for your guidance as a pastor some time? I am Jesus Rodriguez and need some help regarding sin, denominations, and my relationship with God as topics.
I suggest Fr. Chris Alar's video on the Divine Mercy chanel. Vatican II of God or of Satan?
@@javierperd2604 The Old Catholic Church that "ordains" women and accepts homosexuality. It is simply another one of many groups which have seperated from the Church founded by Christ. Like all the Protestant sects before it, they do not possess that divine organ of infallibility to decide doctrine, given by Christ to His church . Thus they have have drifted into heresy and there is nothing to stop them drifting further into heresy. These 2 presenters simply waffle on in an echo-chamber of doctrinal confusion.
The early church did not believe in a non bloody sacrifice though. That is one of the main problems besides the co mediatrix Mary doctrine, I ha s with Rome and EO
Hey
How can they delude themselves that it could be God's intention that they should be separated from the successor of St Peter?
2000 years of Jesus universal Church he is with it all the time. You fellas are outside. Be Obiedant to him
So...... pride masses ok?
Woops... the presenter brought up the issue Murray did NOT want him to....he is a Catholic who never actually understood the Faith and spent his life drifting around in the doctrinal abyss that is Protestantism. Really, this is quite lame.
Murray holds graduate degrees in theology and philosophy from respected Roman Catholic colleges and seminaries. He taught theology, philosophy, and more for a Roman Catholic archdiocese, multiple parishes, as well as for Catholic colleges and academies for years. It might be comforting for you to believe that the reason he left Roman Catholicism is because he didn't understand it, but the reasons that he left are clearly articulated in the video, and have nothing to do with any lack of understanding Rome's teachings.
If Murray said anything that was false about Rome's doctrines, then feel free to point it out. Otherwise, those with any training in philosophy (or who watched the video) can see that your claims are little more than ad hominem attacks.
@@philoalethia I said what I said. Also, there is a multitude of heresies down through the centuries, with a majority of them being led by led by clerics. Murray was not even a cleric. Your point is moot.
@@philoalethia I said what I said. Furthermore, there is a multitude of heresies down through the centuries, with a majority of them being led by led by clerics. Murray was not even a cleric. Your point is moot.
You have reduced this man's life and faith in Christ to a line in a RUclips comment. It is almost as if it is self-evident that what you are saying is uncharitable, non-truth seeking, and dignity destroying. This attitude doesn't couple with truth nor is it in line with the fruit of the spirit.
@@ethanstrunk7698:
I believe that Murray is sincere in his beliefs, but that doesn't negate the fact that he is giving wrong information regarding Catholic doctrines.
Yet, faith ALONE and Scripture ALONE, are man made traditions not found in Holy Scripture, or the Church authority that existed way before the the testament was ever written! Holy Scripture teaches we must cooperate with God's saving grace and repent and bear fruit and forgive others and love one another and keep the commandments and persevere to the end to be saved! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink
I don't see how your comment is in any way relevant to the video or its content. Perhaps you should actually watch the video.
@@philoalethia I did watch the video. Did you? Indeed, it is relevant, as the Old Catholic Church that existed way before the new testament was ever written, didn't practice Scripture ALONE and faith Alone! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink
@@matthewbroderick6287, I think that you are lying. Please point out precisely where in the video sola scriptura or sola fide was promoted.
@matthewbroderick628 AAAAMEEEEN!!!
@@philoalethia Yes, @matthewbroderick6287 comment is very relevant. The Old Catholic Church that "ordains" women and accepts homosexuality. It is simply another one of many groups which have seperated from the Church founded by Christ. Like all the Protestant sects before it, they do not possess that divine organ of infallibility to decide doctrine, given by Christ to His church . Thus they have have drifted into heresy and there is nothing to stop them drifting further into heresy. These 2 presenters simply waffle on in an echo-chamber of doctrinal confusion.
They are poking holes in it and it is black and white.
PLEASE COME HOME TO THE FULLNESS OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH YOUR SYMBOL SERVICES WILL BECOME THE EUCARIST ENOUGH OF THE FLUFF REPENT NOW MARY AWAITS YOU AND SO DO WE
Yes, the Old Catholic Church that "ordains" women and accepts homosexuality. It is simply another one of many groups which have seperated from the Church founded by Christ. Like all the Protestant sects before it, they do not possess that divine organ of infallibility to decide doctrine, given by Christ to His church . Thus they have have drifted into heresy and there is nothing to stop them drifting further into heresy. These 2 presenters simply waffle on in an echo-chamber of doctrinal confusion.
@DD-bx8rb writes: " The Old Catholic Church that "ordains" women and accepts homosexuality. It is simply another one of many groups which have seperated from the Church founded by Christ."
*SIGH* Friend, you should watch the video before writing words about it. Otherwise you are just exposing your ignorance and judgmentalism -- neither of which are of Christ.
"... they do not possess that divine organ of infallibility to decide doctrine, given by Christ to His church ..."
Well... neither do you, and to believe that you do when you do not is delusional and quite dangerous.
"Thus they have have drifted into heresy and there is nothing to stop them drifting further into heresy."
Now you are merely accusing others of what you actually do. Again, you are not acting in keeping with the teachings of Christ, nor even basic sense here.
To falsely assert that the video promotes the ordination of women and the acceptance of homosexuality, while claiming to be infallible, is, frankly, worthy of referral to a therapist and perhaps some psychological medication. Further, to make such claims while your own "infallible" church *actually* promotes the blessing of same sex couples and acknowledges female bishops makes me wonder if you are merely playing a joke.
If you would like to have a serious, adult, Christian conversation, a good place to start would be to actually watch the video and only then comment upon something that was said in it. Another honest tactic would be to post your comment ONCE rather than pepper copies of it throughout the comments.
RCC have plenty of homosexual priests. It happens in every denomination due to sin. Get the plank out of your own eye.
Again, @DD-bx8rb, not sure why you are engaging in deception. Do you find that lying about others somehow leads people to Rome?
@@philoalethia Yes, how dare a Catholic speak about truths of scripture and church history! Would you like the citations for what I posted?
@@carpediem5526Who said there are not Catholic priests who are homosexual? I said the Old Catholic Church has doctrinally endorsed homosexuality. And without a divinely guaranteed organ of of infallible teaching, there is nothing to prevent it slipping further into heresy. "The church is the pillar and foundation of truth" (1Tim 3:15) and NOT the individual interpretations of a group/individual
funny,,,,,,,YOU ARE SCHISMATIC
Yes, the Old Catholic Church that "ordains" women and accepts homosexuality. It is simply another one of many groups which have seperated from the Church founded by Christ. Like all the Protestant sects before it, they do not possess that divine organ of infallibility to decide doctrine, given by Christ to His church . Thus they have have drifted into heresy and there is nothing to stop them drifting further into heresy. These 2 presenters simply waffle on in an echo-chamber of doctrinal confusion.
@DD-bx8rb writes: " The Old Catholic Church that "ordains" women and accepts homosexuality. It is simply another one of many groups which have seperated from the Church founded by Christ."
*SIGH* Friend, you should watch the video before writing words about it. Otherwise you are just exposing your ignorance and judgmentalism -- neither of which are of Christ.
"... they do not possess that divine organ of infallibility to decide doctrine, given by Christ to His church ..."
Well... neither do you, and to believe that you do when you do not is delusional and quite dangerous.
"Thus they have have drifted into heresy and there is nothing to stop them drifting further into heresy."
Now you are merely accusing others of what you actually do. Again, you are not acting in keeping with the teachings of Christ, nor even basic sense here.
To falsely assert that the video promotes the ordination of women and the acceptance of homosexuality, while claiming to be infallible, is, frankly, worthy of referral to a therapist and perhaps some psychological medication. Further, to make such claims while your own "infallible" church *actually* promotes the blessing of same sex couples and acknowledges female bishops makes me wonder if you are merely playing a joke.
If you would like to have a serious, adult, Christian conversation, a good place to start would be to actually watch the video and only then comment upon something that was said in it. Another honest tactic would be to post your comment ONCE rather than pepper copies of it throughout the comments.
The Polish National Catholic Church doesn't.
@@jeffkardosjr.3825 The Polish National Church, likewise, does not possess the unifying and authoritative office of Peter, and so there is nothing to stop them from drifting further into heresy.
@@jeffkardosjr.3825 They also reject the Filioque.
@@philoalethia:
Actually, DD is correct.