Considering the possible downsides, I would never reuse the old ferrule and nut. It's not that much harder to either pull off the old ferrule with a puller or just some channel lock pliers IF the old fitting hasn't been over tightened and the pipe damaged. If it has been over tightened, you are going to want to cut off the damaged portion of the pipe anyway. Most stubs I've ever seen for a faucet or toilet connection have been significantly longer than absolutely necessary, so there is sufficient pipe to allow such a shortening. In the rare case where the current valve is already nearly at the wall or floor surface, then you would need to add a new piece of pipe and thus might want to consult a professional.
Not everyone is a Fukkking professional plumber look at yer long treatise on a ferrule. Ever thought bout yer "expertise" yepping may exactly be the reason why the guy used the old one instead?
First, You never sand a ferrule - it causes grooves that were never there. Second, please use the 15/16 open end wrench or the specific tool that removed the nut from the anglestop. The knucklebuster tool is just that and can slip and cause damage in the immediate vicinity. Lastly, overtightening can cause a leak. Many attempt to keep tightening a leaking anglestop. Please don't. I would say it is rare to get an anglestop that can be refitted this way. This is what a plumber would have done: Turn off the water as noted. Then unscrew the nut on the back with wrenches. He/she would then look at the ferrule to see if it has been overtightened thus damaging the copper stub out. If not, the ferrule can be easily removed with channelocks by twisting the ferrule forward or rocking the rear nut back and forth toward you until it is removed. If the ferrule has damage the pipe, cut the the short piece of copper off in front of the ferrule and pull the old ferrule off. If the ferrule won't come off, cut the copper stub immediately in back of the ferrule. If the stub is too close to the wall, a section of copper will need to be replaced or solder a male fitting and use a screw on anglestop.
Of all the angle stops I've replaced, I'd say 80% could be done this way. I don't do it on a daily basis, but I've done a lot. The only ones I can remember leaking were the ones that were over-tightened or crooked to begin with--Today I would just skip to the next step and do a permanent fix, but it was worth testing the solution in those scenarios so I could learn from them. 1: Yes, sanding the ferrule can absolutely put grooves in the soft copper that will cause sealing issues or even just shrink the ring, which is why is needs to be done with a high grit and very lightly. Sometimes just a rag can do the job, or a gentle scotch-brite pad. The goal is to leave the ferrule in good shape, but not dirty. 2. I feel comfortable using the tools I used. Good advice for others to keep in mind though. 3. 100% true. Over-tightening is never a good idea and will lead to the pipe getting crushed. Once the pipe is crushed, it pipe will have to be cut off behind the ferrule like you mentioned. Great piece of advice on using channel-locks to remove the ferrule. I've always used a tool to do it when I've decided to remove the ferrule. I would warn anyone doing this though, copper pipes can be crushed by pliers fairly easily! If you have a piece of copper with the same wall thickness, it might be worth using the channels locks on a scrap piece to feel what pressure causes deformation of the pipe before attempting.
I've watched several of these types of videos and really enjoyed your take. At 4:44, what type of white caulk did you use to fill the gap between the copper pipe and drywall hole in the wall?
Thanks, Donald! That's actually just drywall mud that was taped/filled all the way to the copper pipe. I would throw an escutcheon on there instead of caulking probably.
Hi Hector! How so? It's common to add paste to a new compression ring and I've never seen one leak after doing this repair as long as the ring and pipe are in good shape. I've done this in exposed areas (toilets) many times, so it'd be obvious if they were leaking. I've also known plumbers who do this repair in some situations, but that doesn't mean some plumbers won't disagree with the practice either. Obviously if you have a puller or enough pipe to trim and add add a new compression ring, it's ideal to do so, but that's not always the case. This isn't a one size fits all repair, but it's a great bit of information to have. I appreciate your insight, but I don't agree with your stark conclusion. If anyone has an issue with this repair leaking, I'd be interested to hear about it / see it. And it's not likely for a failure to be sudden & catastrophic either, so if you can't get a drip to stop, then don't leave the repair in place. I'd also be interested to hear from some licenced plumbers. Not everyone, even in the same trade, will agree 100% of the time. But I'd sure appreciate more insight to help everyone make the best decision for their situation. -Project Therapy
Or just get the tool from Home Depot which is fairly cheap. I have gotten away with using the same nut without all the dope but then I had a pile of new Farrells and nuts. Just get the tool and be done with it. But in a pinch..........
I appreciate the extra insight! I'm sure you'd agree there are times when a new ring is needed (crooked, deep grooves, etc), but this is a great trick to have in the bag.
The why an anglestop needs to be replaced gives you an idea how hard it will be to remove. If the anglestop has never been shut-off after being placed in service (like replacing a fixture), then chances that removing the ferrule is highly likely. Similar reason to an anglestop that has been shut off and on many times, possibly leaking at the packing nut at the stem, or just breaking off the oval handle. This is 90% of anglestop reasons to replace from original service. It is those installed afterwards by less qualified folks who wrench too hard on the nut that create the problem of removal (like temp maintenance folks at apartment houses and industrious homeowners). Then the plumber gets called. The use of Teflon dope on the back side of ferrule (while not approved by the anglestop manufacturer) has been practiced for years as a failsafe and is a practice by many plumbers. It is also becomes very obvious if the copper pipe is damaged by overtightening the nut which causes the ferrule to bite into the stubout. Second chances to apply more Teflon sealant and reassemble are rare and prove to be a waste of time and effort. So, if the ferrule has not bitten into the copper, it can be safely removed which provides an opportunity to examine the copper stubout for the installation of the complete new anglestop. I would recommend always replacing like for like. Push-on anglestops are designed to be placed on new, clean piping only and any pipe (copper, PEX, CPVC, etc.) that has any imperfections will cause water bypass the internal O-ring and leak.
Good input! I still argue that there are many people who can use this method successfully instead of calling a plumber. If a homeowner over-tightens, ruins the ferrule, or if the repair just simply doesn't work, I don't think the plumber will charge much different for those scenarios. There's virtually always going to be an hour minimum from a plumber, and unless someone really botches this repair or does it in a sketchy tight angle that's hard to solder later on--it isn't a bad step to take. I totally understand that there's a more professional way of doing this, but if a homeowner can complete this and it doesn't leak when they carefully turn the water back on, then it should be a done deal, it's not likely to suddenly start leaking days later. In situations where a bad repair can cause big problems down the road, I would shy away from quick solutions. For example, I would always be more careful with drainage behind walls or under concrete, electrical repairs, water proofing behind tiled walls, etc.
I've done this hundreds of times. But it only works if the compression nut is compatible with.the new valve. Sometimes the threads are more coarse or more fine. the way to check that is to screw the new nut onto the old valve. If it goes on easy your good. Also usually you need don't. to dope the brass ferule.
Thanks for your input! It shouldn't be a big deal to give it a shot without any paste and just pull it back off to add a bit if it doesn't seal. I'll just remind everyone not to over-tighten the bolt, it can crush the pipe.
@@projecttherapy1351 I've been plumbing since late 80's and I always put a little megaloc pipe dope on my compression stops it helps lubricant, keeps from dry locking and buring the ferrule.
4 years later, and it hasn't leaked a drop, nor have any of the others I've done. If the ferrule is in good shape, this method usually does the trick. Good luck with your project!
Considering the possible downsides, I would never reuse the old ferrule and nut. It's not that much harder to either pull off the old ferrule with a puller or just some channel lock pliers IF the old fitting hasn't been over tightened and the pipe damaged. If it has been over tightened, you are going to want to cut off the damaged portion of the pipe anyway. Most stubs I've ever seen for a faucet or toilet connection have been significantly longer than absolutely necessary, so there is sufficient pipe to allow such a shortening. In the rare case where the current valve is already nearly at the wall or floor surface, then you would need to add a new piece of pipe and thus might want to consult a professional.
Not everyone is a Fukkking professional plumber look at yer long treatise on a ferrule. Ever thought bout yer "expertise" yepping may exactly be the reason why the guy used the old one instead?
First, You never sand a ferrule - it causes grooves that were never there. Second, please use the 15/16 open end wrench or the specific tool that removed the nut from the anglestop. The knucklebuster tool is just that and can slip and cause damage in the immediate vicinity. Lastly, overtightening can cause a leak. Many attempt to keep tightening a leaking anglestop. Please don't. I would say it is rare to get an anglestop that can be refitted this way.
This is what a plumber would have done: Turn off the water as noted. Then unscrew the nut on the back with wrenches. He/she would then look at the ferrule to see if it has been overtightened thus damaging the copper stub out. If not, the ferrule can be easily removed with channelocks by twisting the ferrule forward or rocking the rear nut back and forth toward you until it is removed. If the ferrule has damage the pipe, cut the the short piece of copper off in front of the ferrule and pull the old ferrule off. If the ferrule won't come off, cut the copper stub immediately in back of the ferrule. If the stub is too close to the wall, a section of copper will need to be replaced or solder a male fitting and use a screw on anglestop.
Of all the angle stops I've replaced, I'd say 80% could be done this way. I don't do it on a daily basis, but I've done a lot. The only ones I can remember leaking were the ones that were over-tightened or crooked to begin with--Today I would just skip to the next step and do a permanent fix, but it was worth testing the solution in those scenarios so I could learn from them.
1: Yes, sanding the ferrule can absolutely put grooves in the soft copper that will cause sealing issues or even just shrink the ring, which is why is needs to be done with a high grit and very lightly. Sometimes just a rag can do the job, or a gentle scotch-brite pad. The goal is to leave the ferrule in good shape, but not dirty.
2. I feel comfortable using the tools I used. Good advice for others to keep in mind though.
3. 100% true. Over-tightening is never a good idea and will lead to the pipe getting crushed. Once the pipe is crushed, it pipe will have to be cut off behind the ferrule like you mentioned.
Great piece of advice on using channel-locks to remove the ferrule. I've always used a tool to do it when I've decided to remove the ferrule. I would warn anyone doing this though, copper pipes can be crushed by pliers fairly easily! If you have a piece of copper with the same wall thickness, it might be worth using the channels locks on a scrap piece to feel what pressure causes deformation of the pipe before attempting.
I was today years old when I learned there is LIQUID dope tape :D
Great video my guy 👍
Thanks!
Great tip about the pipe dope. Keep up the good work.
Thanks! it's definitely a nice solution without a Ferrule Puller and without cutting off excess pipe.
After I change an angle stop I always put a piece of cardboard under it for a few hours to detect any minor drips.
Good tip!
I've watched several of these types of videos and really enjoyed your take. At 4:44, what type of white caulk did you use to fill the gap between the copper pipe and drywall hole in the wall?
Thanks, Donald!
That's actually just drywall mud that was taped/filled all the way to the copper pipe. I would throw an escutcheon on there instead of caulking probably.
This is a sure fire way to make a leak and destroy your cabinets! Always change out the compression ring! Or call a professional!
Hi Hector! How so? It's common to add paste to a new compression ring and I've never seen one leak after doing this repair as long as the ring and pipe are in good shape. I've done this in exposed areas (toilets) many times, so it'd be obvious if they were leaking. I've also known plumbers who do this repair in some situations, but that doesn't mean some plumbers won't disagree with the practice either.
Obviously if you have a puller or enough pipe to trim and add add a new compression ring, it's ideal to do so, but that's not always the case. This isn't a one size fits all repair, but it's a great bit of information to have.
I appreciate your insight, but I don't agree with your stark conclusion. If anyone has an issue with this repair leaking, I'd be interested to hear about it / see it. And it's not likely for a failure to be sudden & catastrophic either, so if you can't get a drip to stop, then don't leave the repair in place.
I'd also be interested to hear from some licenced plumbers. Not everyone, even in the same trade, will agree 100% of the time. But I'd sure appreciate more insight to help everyone make the best decision for their situation.
-Project Therapy
Or just get the tool from Home Depot which is fairly cheap. I have gotten away with using the same nut without all the dope but then I had a pile of new Farrells and nuts. Just get the tool and be done with it. But in a pinch..........
Fair point. I've also seen over tightened compression rings that can't be replaced, and this solution worked.
No need to replace the ring I’m a licensed plumbing contractor replaced hundreds of angle stop without changing the ring and it was fine
I appreciate the extra insight!
I'm sure you'd agree there are times when a new ring is needed (crooked, deep grooves, etc), but this is a great trick to have in the bag.
The why an anglestop needs to be replaced gives you an idea how hard it will be to remove. If the anglestop has never been shut-off after being placed in service (like replacing a fixture), then chances that removing the ferrule is highly likely. Similar reason to an anglestop that has been shut off and on many times, possibly leaking at the packing nut at the stem, or just breaking off the oval handle. This is 90% of anglestop reasons to replace from original service. It is those installed afterwards by less qualified folks who wrench too hard on the nut that create the problem of removal (like temp maintenance folks at apartment houses and industrious homeowners). Then the plumber gets called. The use of Teflon dope on the back side of ferrule (while not approved by the anglestop manufacturer) has been practiced for years as a failsafe and is a practice by many plumbers.
It is also becomes very obvious if the copper pipe is damaged by overtightening the nut which causes the ferrule to bite into the stubout. Second chances to apply more Teflon sealant and reassemble are rare and prove to be a waste of time and effort.
So, if the ferrule has not bitten into the copper, it can be safely removed which provides an opportunity to examine the copper stubout for the installation of the complete new anglestop. I would recommend always replacing like for like. Push-on anglestops are designed to be placed on new, clean piping only and any pipe (copper, PEX, CPVC, etc.) that has any imperfections will cause water bypass the internal O-ring and leak.
Good input!
I still argue that there are many people who can use this method successfully instead of calling a plumber. If a homeowner over-tightens, ruins the ferrule, or if the repair just simply doesn't work, I don't think the plumber will charge much different for those scenarios. There's virtually always going to be an hour minimum from a plumber, and unless someone really botches this repair or does it in a sketchy tight angle that's hard to solder later on--it isn't a bad step to take.
I totally understand that there's a more professional way of doing this, but if a homeowner can complete this and it doesn't leak when they carefully turn the water back on, then it should be a done deal, it's not likely to suddenly start leaking days later. In situations where a bad repair can cause big problems down the road, I would shy away from quick solutions. For example, I would always be more careful with drainage behind walls or under concrete, electrical repairs, water proofing behind tiled walls, etc.
I've done this hundreds of times. But it only works if the compression nut is compatible with.the new valve. Sometimes the threads are more coarse or more fine. the way to check that is to screw the new nut onto the old valve. If it goes on easy your good. Also usually you need don't. to dope the brass ferule.
Thanks for your input!
It shouldn't be a big deal to give it a shot without any paste and just pull it back off to add a bit if it doesn't seal. I'll just remind everyone not to over-tighten the bolt, it can crush the pipe.
@@projecttherapy1351 I've been plumbing since late 80's and I always put a little megaloc pipe dope on my compression stops it helps lubricant, keeps from dry locking and buring the ferrule.
@@plumbbuild6517 Thanks for sharing your experience! I do the same thing.
What r u doing I wanted to see about a shit off valve not destroying a house
Shit off valve
4 years later, and it hasn't leaked a drop, nor have any of the others I've done. If the ferrule is in good shape, this method usually does the trick.
Good luck with your project!