I think they should have called it a retrofit instead of refit, A refit is same ship just upgraded,this is not a luna.A retrofit is a older ship with newer parts from a newer ship,that where not ment for that older class but are made to work.Great video always enjoy them.
We all know what really happened though right? The show was written for this to be a refit of Rikers Titan, but the powers that be completely changed the ship to look like Kirk's Enterprise for the nostalgia factor.
I still don’t love the term “Refit” here, but I also understand that openly referring to the cannibalization of ships would probably be a bad PR move for Starfleet.
Indeed, can to clarrify what exactly you John did for this? so we know for credit when talking about this again? :D how much painting vs render? congrats!
@@_Pundus_ I should also say that I'm a moderator for their channel, just in case you were wondering who this random person sending you a message is. Haha!
It seems there is some unwritten rule that every new ST series much have a never before seen ship as the main vessel. I think the creators underestimated how popular the Luna-class actually is. A rebuild of Riker's Titan with upgrades and calling _that_ the Titan-A would have sufficed for the show. Instead, we have this *chimera,* and yes, that is the proper term for what the Titan-A is.
The Titan A is not very big, should be Shangri-La/Connie size. Crusher's ship was tiny, look when the shuttle docked, the Shrike was bigger but not massively so and it and the Titan A aren't very different in overall size. Honestly if the Enterprise F showed up it would dwarf the Shrike and Titan A. The Titan A is not nearly as big as the Luna class.
One nitpick I have about how Picard addresses the loss of Utopia Planitia. I find it hard to believe that it was really the only large ship construction yard within the Federation. Slowing progress down to such a suggested extreme? We know other shipyards exist. The size of them is unknown as we never saw them depicted did we? There is no evidence that the only shipyard of its scale was Utopia Planitia.
My headcanon for the Titan-A is that it was originally called something else. That Constitution-III class ship suffered damage and needed repairs. Maybe it's space frame was intact and it needed new internals. Starfleet took the functioning internals from Titan and put them in the Connie-III. The Connie-III was then rechristened the "Titan-A". This makes the most sense to me.
Maybe there's some logic to that theory but it's not the ship's history from what we can extrapolate. It was the Luna-class Titan that suffered damage in which its internals were then grafted onto this Neo-Constitution-class vessel. However, it could be the rationale behind why it was christened 'Titan'.
@@MrDecelles It's just a shame to see them missing easy wins for incomprehensible reasons. Titan-A would have been great as a refit of Riker's Titan, a 1st rate ship that would be trouble for anything it came across. It would have been great as a refit of Saavik's Titan, a 3rd rate vessel Seven could plausibly command at the beginning of her career. It makes no sense as a new, giant sized version of the Shangri La; and as the flagship on top of that. We saw numerous vessels in the fleet at the end of season 2 that would make better flagships, not to mention the other Odyssey class vessels that should still be out there.
So is the Neo-Constitution class a one off with the Titan-A? Could it be a a class of new space frames that are designed to take warp core, main computer and nacelle's from several different classes of starship's maybe? Like after the Dominion war they decided to build this common space frame to take advantage of all of the parts from severely damaged and destroyed starships?
Sharing same space frames make so much sense, makes it much easier to transfer, replace or modify parts. There's a reason that car manufacturers use the same underpinnings across their entire range of vehicles.
It would actually be quite a smart move. Car manufacturers are already doing this, having only a few "platforms" on which they can build vastly different car designs. That means they do not need to redesign everything from the ground up.
I am actually assuming that the Shangrila Class of ships, which according to Trekyards own video on it - were to work in pairs. Since they were immediately before the Excelsior, they were retired early. This meant they were mothballed but retrofitted now. Maybe this is the cost cutting move, and utilizing parts from ships kept around, but beat up, by the Dominion War.
I assumed that the Titan-A took the frame of the original Shangri-la class Titan and removed the "guts" and outer hull (much love with the Enterprise refit in TMP) and replaced them with modern components. A "refit" tends to keep the same frame and shape for the most part, and the Titan-A looks nothing like the Luna class Titan lol. So I never thought it was a refit of the Luna class Titan.
Yeah I was thinknig that maybe they gutted to the luna titan to refit a shangri la ship to create a "new" Titan A. Although why did they not just use the Luna Titan? Its a great looking ship only trekie book fans really know about. That being said I'm a sucker for Bill's designs so let them come up with what ever screy lore they want if it means we get a physical model of this beautiful ship someday. Even though I kinda like the movie style Shangri la better. The aesthetic of the old crew movie ships where just so cool.
@@loganholmberg2295 The issue is the Constitution III is considerably bigger than the Shangri-La (which was close to the size of the Constitution refit). Certainly, the Luna is bigger than canon TMP-era ships.
I thought that around the dinner scene with Shawm it was implied or stated that the A was his ship now. Making me have the impression Riker commanded this ship before.
That was what was said. A lot more on-screen dialog points to Rikers titan and Shaws titan being the same ship. Also, at dinner Shaw complains to Riker he does not like his taste in music going on to say it was buried deep in the computer system taking a lot of time and work to remove. Also, at dinner when Riker and Picard ask Shaw to change course, he asks why he should do that and Riker exclaims for bragging rights to show what the refit titan and its captain can do compared to what the previous captain who was now on board could do pre- titan refit. Before going on the titan Picard also comments its Rikers previous command with Riker commenting that's the only reason he has any sway on them being able to get on the ship. He never corrects Picard to say it's not the same titan or the only thing the two ships have in common is a name rather he just says it's a refit again making it seem like the same ship. Production wise it might or might not have ever meant for it to be the same ship but at some point that may have changed if it wasn't since everything on screen says it is
Ok, this has got to be the place to bring this up. I love all the iterations of Titan and I am not here to put in my two pence about how they relate to each other. I am, however, here to ask a question. When Nemesis came out and they name dropped Riker's new ship, the U.S.S. Titan, I immediately went online to find out what this ship looked like because they did not show it in that movie. Of course I did, lol. I found some info on it and it was described as a colony type ship and it was massive. At the time I found a size comparison chart and it was bigger than the Enterprise E. It was a gigantic ship that could hold thousands of people in the event of an emergency or population move. It had the same basic shape as any Enterprise...just much bigger, hence the name TITAN. It was a titan of a ship. Years later, when I saw Riker's Titan, I thought well isn't that a cool ship but that is not what I remember. Does anyone else recall seeing that version of the ship? Granted, it might have been just a fan creation, but I could have sworn I found several sources that collaborated this huge starship.
The idea that the Federation, that Starfleet, only had that one set of yards over Mars is clearly dumb. Sure Mars was taken out (in a stupid way) but that should only temporarily impact shipbuilding, but a 20 year effect. Making it all about the Sol system is very 'small scale' and Human only thinking imho.
Enjoying the season but good lord they have no idea about starships. Seems like all involved are trying to have their cakes and eat them too. Cockings is 100% right on the script issue - normally you'd carry out some last-minute REWRITES to make things make sense but no, they went with mental gymnastics instead. The stuff about resources and replicators is BS. Where did the USS Copypastas come from in Season 1 then?
Dave answered that on twitter. One design is easier to mass produce than a bunch of different designs. Starfleet needed a quickly built defense fleet, that's where the Inquiry Class came in.
@@tuskin3811 I don't understand. He said resources were scarce after the destruction of the shipyard, and they have to cannibalise parts of the Titan - but they can somehow use those resources to create 200 ships? What does it matter that they're identical, they're still resource-intensive to produce.
@@skepticalbadger Some of the plot holes created in this show you could fly a Bog Cube through. How is the destruction of one ship yard that's part of an organisation that spans a huge swathe of the inner galaxy putting such resource restraints on them?
Also like you said about the new ship don't forget it happened alot with the Enterprise eg nx-constitution - excelsior-ambassador-galaxy-soverign-odessy
I'm just going to assume all those Mirandas that didn't die in the Dominion War were pulled out of mothball, gutted and mated to a new engineering hull. There may be some donor Luna Titan parts in the Titan-A, mission systems etc, but that's about it.
Imagine having an Engineering staff on the Titan-A that DOESN'T know how to fix all the systems on their ship because they are "old". That's ridiculous. It was the most unbelievable thing on a very strong series so far for me.
i think its more along the lines of,Shaw was very qualified, the changlings were a potential threat, the less crew brought in to fix the issue, the better.
Seven said that they needed Shaw to fix it because all engineers are busy fixing the warp systems that were BLOWN THE HELL UP, and Shaw was the most qualified of the non-engineers.
@@dylanharrisontemp641 Shaw adds on to that saying, and I quote: "In spite of the fancy retrofit, the inner workings of the nacelle shields are 20 years old and none of these kids know how to hotwire it." So yes, they wouldn't know how even if they were free.
The neo consitution titain should of been a totally brand new ship not a refit of the luna titian which makes the neo consitituin titan way too u der gunned amd weaker shields then other starships
I love Picard season 3 but the mistakes in writing are mounting… why didn’t they just say the Titan A was a new ship? It makes no sense to refit a vessel in this way.
man how do you paint something like this. when every element in the picture potentially has a basic grey metal color and then you have to come up with different shades so that everything doesnt look the same and on top of that you got different shades from different lighting conditions that make your previous choices overlap in brightnesslevels and then in the end you also have to decide to sacrifice huge portions of detail in certain areas to get realistic specular lighting. im so jealous
I collaborated with Dave and John on this (you can see Dave tagged me in the original Twitter post), so I can shed a bit of insight. I created the scene in 3D following Dave's ideas and instructions, setting up the lighting and composition of the shot. I made the ships glossy and shiny per his instructions, which allowed John to paint over it with my work as a reference, and allowing him to recreate the accurate lighting. He also added some lovely details on top of that :)
I’m guessing they were building what would be the Titan- A when Rikers Titan was towed in, and as this type was probably supposed to be a smaller, more economical design compared to the Sovereign and Odyssey types, they salvaged what they could from Riker’s Titan for use on the new one. Riker might have had some time with it before Shaw took command. Whatever assigned name was planned originally was changed.
My head cannon now is that they used the Titan's computer and just couldn't be bothered to change the name in it, slapping an A on it and changing the ship's name. Why? Cuz Shaw said he was going through the computer deleting all of Ryker's Jazz.
This just cements the idea of this being a "refit" even more absurd. They're not even close to similar in any way. I do like the design (mostly, not too keen on the nacelles) but the idea this was somehow carved out of a Luna class is silly. Maybe if you replace every component and part of the superstructure, like a ship of Theseus kind of situation (or Triggers' Broom from Only Fools and Horses for any fellow Brits over a certain age!).
Cannibalizing parts from one ship to another is nothing new. I know for a fact that parts from CVN65 USS Enterprise (and by default some from CV6 as well) are being used on CVN80. I work with some stuff currently and we have taken equipment from CVN74 USS John C Stennis while its in its mid-life overhaul for fitting out the new CVN79 USS John F Kennedy. Anchors of ships get moved around all the time as needed, along with weapon and radar systems.
This of course also adds credence to the idea that Titan-A is built on a movie/lost era hull, the ship was complete, it served for a while and was decommissioned and retired, maybe decades ago put in the reserve fleet, or maybe something along the lines of a prototype for a new ship class at a simular time to Excelsoir, then Starfleet wanted something to replace the Titan, so to modernize the old hull they take what they need from the now decommissioned Lunar class Titan without having to completely dismantle and rebuild the ship, that way the old ship was refit to become the Titan-A, still had Riker's record collection because it is mostly the same ships computer, but still looks like a movie era ship, because it is. The big problem with that idea was that would make the Titan-A likely a contemporary design to the Excelsior but it is much bigger than the Excelsior (because the Titan looked at most the size of the Ambassador class and in the picture Titan-A looks to be at least similar length)
Simple - what can fit cannon and make the most sense. In looking at the images of the models in the conference room off the bridge - it seems like all of the ships are of similar size - Shangrila, Luna, Constitution III. Since we got a ton of 'new' ships Picard Season 2, I cannot see Starfleet going back to the TMP era design for new ships. Nor can I see them rebuilding the Luna to look like an older ship. What I can see is much of the 'new' components of the tired Luna Titan being transferred to a retrofitted Shang-Ri-La, which was expanded into the new Constitution III. Warp nacelles and coils, warp core, computer cores. Since the Shang-Ri-La also had a bridge setup where the whole section could be ejected as a lifeboat, refitting a new command section would explain the larger bridge. Overall, this makes more sense than revising the superstructure of the Luna ship, and making a ship that is retro.
I am sorry, but this is pure nonsense...the actual physical shape does not match in the 'transfer' of the ship's frame. This is not organic grown ship, but a Kitbash...
Didnt Commander 7/hanson order helmsperson Laforge that once cleared spacedock to go to warp 9.9 and thats when pPicard reminded 7/Hanson of an old procedure to warn engineering if your going past warp 9.
i'd say this is a surplus partially completed spaceframe from a Connie II, refitted to Connie III (changes to the primary and secondary hull plus neck and warp pylons) with the rest of the parts bolted in including the impulse engines, warp coils, and the like, and the leftover Luna class Titan afterwards was broken down for raw materials for the fleet rebuild while this refit recycle was used as a way to bang out smaller but powerful ships quickly, much like the size and power of the Luna, Akira, Norway, Steamrunner, Defiant etc and less bodies involved vs the turnaround to dedicate more to the rebuilding of the main fleet in other yards (logistics was also suffering a catastrophic loss from the Mars Disaster not just ships, both person and android losses that day vs before it happened). I would say a few write-off fleet got to be donors for old surplus frames as well as ships and frames possibly brought from the NAR fleetyards to the main Starfleet yards, so older frames with newer donor parts. Remember, Shaw deleted Riker's jazz so Titan A probably has the old Titan's computer core as well. by the looks of it, the Impulse array was pulled out from the old one and bolted right in along with the rear torpedo launcher and maybe a shuttle bay or two and the holodeck. i would say whole parts of infrastructure like the launcher assembly transplant resulted in changes like the shorter neck and larger spine on the primary hull, along with the altered warp nacelle pylons (shortened and flared out due to its new lower profile) as well to allow for some things to be cut out in one piece from the old Titan and grafted directly in and other things more structural on the hull plating like the phaser array would not be used but more modular items like the RCS thrusters etc could have been swapped in without any issue. Standardized parts were probably also taken advantage of. So it was both a feat of engineering with a flair for logistics. I can see why Shaw is so familiar, a greasemonkey who probably would be doing LS Swaps and suspension upgrades on 1970s Corvettes back in Chicago if he was alive today).
blass also said the computer systems from the luna was transferred over to the A as well which is why the jazz had to be removed. so that could have easily happened wile the warp coils where being transferred
Yes, the ship is new and not a refit. That’s impossible. It’s a new class which perhaps Riker Captained for a time before leaving. Then the ship was refit later on as ships are refit in todays Navy. No matter what is stated by the people in the show. The terminology they use is wrong. This is a new design class. Any refit would’ve been done over time.
The Motion Picture showed us how extensive refits can be. I think the Titan-A has parts from several ships, and the "A" means it was named after another ship and not a moon.
@@jamesaron1967 yea I don’t hate but I don’t love I like retro look but I feel titan linage would be no neck and underhung necelles the enterprise was practically the same lay out as previous enterprises yea this isn’t the enterprise but yea then they would still be using a old concept but with more design changes I guess this was just cheaper for paramount last season save all the money possible after all 10 forward holodeck should of been the enterprise d 10 forward but they reused the bar from season 2
I have long thought that the Miranda class, and maybe other, similar ships like the Soyuz, was a Constitution class refit just like the 1701 refit, it just got a different configuration. That's why the parts were so similar. If that were the case, the idea of the "Constitution" in Starfleet design principles might specifically be a type of ship that can be adapted and refit with a lot of customization options, compared to something like the Intrepid which is more of a complete design (Yeagar notwithstanding). So this ship being a "Constitution III class" might be a indication of that, and could explain how and why parts from the Luna were used to build it.
On the titan A I keep noticing what looks like phaser banks on the saucer plus strips. It's not lights I'm seeing those are different shape of dual phaser banks and its easy to spot phaser strips. It looks like it has both. Am I seeing right?
You both forget though refits don't necessarily mean the same ship don't forget the new enterprise was the uss York town and there are other examples albeit I do agree that they technically misuse the word Refit.
An example of a disconnect in production. Should have been a new class named in honor of the Titan or....what I would have prefered....an updated Luna Class.
Housing-wise, yes. Identical. However, if one goes at all by this painting Riker's Titan had salvageable cast verterium cortenide warp coils to be reused. So those coils were adapted into the other nacelle housings.
I do like that image of the 2 ships. Having the Titan-A as an already existing/renamed ship taking donor parts from the Luna class makes more sense. I don’t buy the whole Luna>Neo Constitution idea as doesn’t make sense given the overall shape and size of the ships, also why would you even bother doing that? The old Titan frame is 20+ years old (still quite young in my book!) that's taken some beating over time (remember they are decommissioning the younger Ent-F for this reason) and nothing lines up in terms of structure and shape. If you have to dismantle a ship so far down to then rebuild it back up then why not go from scratch using newer materials/technology. The old Constitution>Refit works because everything is still largely in the same position which isn't the case for Luna>Neo. So I’d imagine here that the old Titan was simply decommissioned and parted out to other ships requiring components with a large portion going to an existing ship undergoing a refit...the Titan-A...and other parts going to in-service Luna Classes. We do this now with Aircraft etc.
I like all of the visuals, the art, the aesthetics, but none of the lore makes sense to me. Ok Riker's ship gets devastatingly damaged and it's easier to decommission than repair, and there's another ship that they can transfer the name to. All good. The "refit" comment I almost took as a jibe at the conny refit in TMP because based on the frame there's no way it's the same ship. More like the same scenario in ST:5 and Picard S3 where an existing ship gets the name, and they call it a refit. But there's also a paradigm in universe that legacy ships have similar style motifs. Every Enterprise has had enough similar styling that you could see that class and go "One of them has gotta be an Enterprise." And now with Voyager-J and now Voy-B on screen in an MSD having contiguous design aesthetics. It expands that paradigm. I would have much rather seen an advance in the Luna class design, or even the Luna class Titan get on screen. Neo-constitution III is fine and all, but the Titan-A looks like a ship out of time in 2402.
The 20-year old nacelles makes more sense thanks to this image, the original Shangri-la class spaceframe was refitted with parts of the Luna-class Titan, creating a fully-fledged new ship and they said, 'hey we will pay homage to the donor ship and call it the Titan-A'.
i wish and hope this was the case and how i have this in my "HEAD CANNON" because the other options are foolish. Others have said the titan-A may look like Saavik's titan but Titan-A is twice the size..... WHY does it have to be twice the size?..... that's just DUMB. in real world, Bill Krause, who designed the shanghai La class obviously used aspects of the refit constitution style. Terry Matalas stated he wanted to get back the "clean" look star ship design and somehow they picked Bill Krause's design which was not canonized until STP 3. so why couldn't it be a Constitution exact scale saucer? even better pulling NCC-1777 from moth balls and "fitting" her with Riker's Titan core and warp drive would have been awesome..... BUT NOOOOOOOO we had to confuse fricken everyone with another whole ship calling it New, i mean, refit, i mean Riker old command, I mean (well know one knows what they meant) and to mess up it further the saucer section LOOKS like a constitution II but for some unknow reason is twice as large. Larger than the Enterprise-C.
I can't wait to see you guys talk more about this ship. The ball phasers and strips haunt me. 😅😅 Please oh please lets see some phasers used later in the show. So far they've just used torpedoes in the fights and I want to see so much more of this ship. Dare I say I'd like to see a titan series. I like this new crew so far and its be great to see them in more of a traditional show with smart writers like these. Unlike the garbo we where getting with discovery and strange new worlds. The writing in Star trek every since JJ abrams took over has been such a let down.
Makes no sense. I dont understand why they didnt just say it was a new ship. Why call it a refit when it clearly bears no resemblance to the old ship whatsoever - and also when weve seen the Enterprise get A, B, C... replacement ships they are distinctly different new ships and not 'refits'. Titan to Titan A we would all happily accepted its just another ship. Cannibalising the titan for some parts to make the A is perfectly fine but dont call it a refit! It was a big enough stretch back in Star Trek the movie to say that this new ship was just a refit of the series one - but at least it was recognisably the same general shape ish...... even though most of it seemed to have been replaced.
Way couldn’t the Neo-Constitution have gone through a refit? It doesn’t mean that the Luna class was refitted into the neo-Connie. It just literally means that that new ship and class went through a refit. Refits are pretty common for naval vessels and it doesn’t always mean there are major design changes. This isn’t complicated guys. Riker could’ve even Captained the A for possibly it’s shakedown cruise and then Shaw took command.🤷🏻♂️
They made the Titan-A to kiss up to the older fan base . It is a copy and paste and super size of the Shanghai-la class and they couldn't even be bothered to remove the old Dual ball phaser mounts. They put way more effort into designing the Shrike and the Intrepid . Also if Star Fleet ships are only made to last 20 years then Star Fleet is in real trouble .
Riker's Luna class Titan was designed to have a service life longer than 20 years, but it was critically damaged [as seen in the art above] in an undisclosed incident and was decommissioned much earlier than planned according to the tweet by Dave Blass...
Although, with how quickly technology advances, with how quickly design philosophy evolves, and with how quickly starship roles change, 20 years can be a very long time... So designing a starship to have a service life of only 20 years, as long as it's a quality design & uses quality materials, isn't necessarily a bad concept. Then, those quality materials can be recycled or reused in the next newer more advanced designed starship!! LOL!
They could have saved themselves ALLLLL this trouble and just called this ship the TITAN, labeled it as such and said it was a refit and no need for another dumb A designation. I also like how Seven knows nothing of ship designs and inner workings and needs Shaw. Even though she’s familiar with old tech… Even though she was a Borg…
The picture is beautiful but not the Titan-A. Having both Titans in one image only underscores how much more I prefer the Luna-class. I realize it's purely subjective but many people seem to be echoing my sentiment. They should have rebuilt the Luna Titan and modernized it. Not for efficiency but to satisfy the fanbase. Something along the lines of what was done for the new Excelsior. That would have been enough and probably made 90% of the viewership content compared to what seems at most 50% right now. Too bad, this season rocks otherwise. As usual, you two are on top of things. Good video and explanation 😎
What I love is that Terry Matalas and Dave Blass are getting the older experience of people like Doug Drexler and the Okudas and by getting them involved and learning why these things look and feel this way and actually learning from their skills.
@@MiiFone1 Stop harassing me! I just stated my opinion and you keep attacking me verbally. Do you have any personal problem with me? If you do just say it. And my name is Suath'se not Karen.
According to the tweet from Dave Blass, there's a Titan-A bc Riker's Luna class Titan was critically damaged [seen in the art above] in an undisclosed incident and decommissioned early...
Trek-tech continuity went out of style with bloomers, hasn't it? This is a retouched USS Shangri-La, which was a poor fit for its intended 23rd century setting anyway. It is an even worse fit for the 24th century. It is as if a modern guided missile cruiser were decommissioned and replaced by a Jutland-era dreadnought. The Titan II's nacelles are chunky, clunky, and don't quite fit any era. Impulse engines should be getting smaller with the generations, not bigger and boxier. Treknology has reached an aesthetic and pseudo-historical nadir. Nadir? No, it always gets worse; like Nero's big drill, it keeps digging down.
This is such nonsense. If we are to believe Saavik had a Titan then Rikers should have been the A. If we are to believe this isn't Saavik's Titan redone then I dunno what we're to believe. Lazy writing. Poor respect to canon.
@@jamesaron1967 It's definitely the best of the 3 seasons but that's a pretty low bar. There are still lots of silly things, but it's passable IMO as Trek.
@@piman2k I completely get where you're coming from. I'm comparing it to an even lower bar - Discovery. STD (coincidentally appropriate acronym) is so bad that I needed to take a break from all things Trek and went on a 2-year hiatus from this channel!
@@jamesaron1967 I hear you mate, I really do. NuTrek in live action form has been so utterly abysmal it's made me lose hope. The animations are miles better. Who would have thought.
@@piman2k Normally, I don't view animations and haven't seen the two current Trek animated series, nor the SW animated series for that matter. But, I will be making an exception and seeing Prodigy soon; possibly LD as well if Prodigy is good.
I think its not unreasonable in a time period when you can manufacture any shape you want, that a return to an older aesthetic, purley for the love it would be possible in canon. Whatever, I like the the featured structure with district parts, rather than the smoothed continuous and variably radiused intersections on later sufixed versions of the Enterprise
Makes no sense to me. Why would a post-scarcity society that doesn't use money and can literally make things out of thin air be recycling ship parts when they can make them from scratch?
The Titan refit looks less advanced than than the original Titan.
I think they should have called it a retrofit instead of refit, A refit is same ship just upgraded,this is not a luna.A retrofit is a older ship with newer parts from a newer ship,that where not ment for that older class but are made to work.Great video always enjoy them.
We all know what really happened though right? The show was written for this to be a refit of Rikers Titan, but the powers that be completely changed the ship to look like Kirk's Enterprise for the nostalgia factor.
Well they changed it before set production - as the Shangrila Titan is in the cabinet of the conference room
Yep....which is lame.
I still don’t love the term “Refit” here, but I also understand that openly referring to the cannibalization of ships would probably be a bad PR move for Starfleet.
It's not the proper term. I've been interested in naval history for nearly half a century. They used 'refit' because of its familiarity.
I kind of feel like
Shaw said it took forever to purge that BeBop out of the Titans system..
I like the Luna better!
Agree 💯 %
I may have missed it if you've already done this, but a side by side of the Enterprise 1701A with the Titan-A would be interesting to see.
we might get that as the Enterprise-A is in the fleet museum as is the excelsior, we might yet get a shot with the titan and it together.
@@harmonizeentertainment That would be pretty awesome!
You mean a side by side of the Enterprise A and Enterprise G?
I haven't finished the video yet, but thank for covering this! Had a... _Blasst_ making the concept with Dave and John :)
Indeed, can to clarrify what exactly you John did for this? so we know for credit when talking about this again? :D
how much painting vs render?
congrats!
@@power543 Hi Samuel! Do you have an easy way I can send images to you, so I can show you?
@@_Pundus_ Ha that woul be easier ha
trekyards@hotmail.com
@@_Pundus_ Hey! Sending them to trekyards@hotmail.com is probably the easiest way. Thank you so much and amazing work!
@@_Pundus_ I should also say that I'm a moderator for their channel, just in case you were wondering who this random person sending you a message is. Haha!
I still wish we would of got at least one shot of the Luna titan in action. Makes me sad
It seems there is some unwritten rule that every new ST series much have a never before seen ship as the main vessel. I think the creators underestimated how popular the Luna-class actually is. A rebuild of Riker's Titan with upgrades and calling _that_ the Titan-A would have sufficed for the show. Instead, we have this *chimera,* and yes, that is the proper term for what the Titan-A is.
The Titan A is not very big, should be Shangri-La/Connie size. Crusher's ship was tiny, look when the shuttle docked, the Shrike was bigger but not massively so and it and the Titan A aren't very different in overall size.
Honestly if the Enterprise F showed up it would dwarf the Shrike and Titan A. The Titan A is not nearly as big as the Luna class.
well said... All of us fans need to override this obvious mistake by whom ever took the Bill Krause design and said "hey look bigger"! S M H
It wouldn't be the first time Trek got the scale all wrong.
One nitpick I have about how Picard addresses the loss of Utopia Planitia. I find it hard to believe that it was really the only large ship construction yard within the Federation. Slowing progress down to such a suggested extreme? We know other shipyards exist. The size of them is unknown as we never saw them depicted did we? There is no evidence that the only shipyard of its scale was Utopia Planitia.
My headcanon for the Titan-A is that it was originally called something else. That Constitution-III class ship suffered damage and needed repairs. Maybe it's space frame was intact and it needed new internals. Starfleet took the functioning internals from Titan and put them in the Connie-III. The Connie-III was then rechristened the "Titan-A". This makes the most sense to me.
Maybe there's some logic to that theory but it's not the ship's history from what we can extrapolate. It was the Luna-class Titan that suffered damage in which its internals were then grafted onto this Neo-Constitution-class vessel. However, it could be the rationale behind why it was christened 'Titan'.
That was a mess. Love the painting but, as for the Titan's backstory, I can't get behind that.
I think of it as the Titan as an organ donor for the titan A.
The titan a seems like a ship of compromises.
Shame...oh well
@@MrDecelles It's just a shame to see them missing easy wins for incomprehensible reasons. Titan-A would have been great as a refit of Riker's Titan, a 1st rate ship that would be trouble for anything it came across. It would have been great as a refit of Saavik's Titan, a 3rd rate vessel Seven could plausibly command at the beginning of her career. It makes no sense as a new, giant sized version of the Shangri La; and as the flagship on top of that. We saw numerous vessels in the fleet at the end of season 2 that would make better flagships, not to mention the other Odyssey class vessels that should still be out there.
@@cptsteele91 NuTrek only got better because the fans spoke out.
These people don't know what Bussards are so I'm not surprised they are confused on the concept of a refit. lol
Where did you get the idea that they don't know what Bussards are?
@@tuskin3811 The dialogue and following sequence in ep. 4. (I mean the showrunners, not TY.)
So is the Neo-Constitution class a one off with the Titan-A? Could it be a a class of new space frames that are designed to take warp core, main computer and nacelle's from several different classes of starship's maybe? Like after the Dominion war they decided to build this common space frame to take advantage of all of the parts from severely damaged and destroyed starships?
Please no Starfleet Clumpships.
Sharing same space frames make so much sense, makes it much easier to transfer, replace or modify parts. There's a reason that car manufacturers use the same underpinnings across their entire range of vehicles.
It would actually be quite a smart move. Car manufacturers are already doing this, having only a few "platforms" on which they can build vastly different car designs. That means they do not need to redesign everything from the ground up.
I am actually assuming that the Shangrila Class of ships, which according to Trekyards own video on it - were to work in pairs. Since they were immediately before the Excelsior, they were retired early. This meant they were mothballed but retrofitted now. Maybe this is the cost cutting move, and utilizing parts from ships kept around, but beat up, by the Dominion War.
I assumed that the Titan-A took the frame of the original Shangri-la class Titan and removed the "guts" and outer hull (much love with the Enterprise refit in TMP) and replaced them with modern components. A "refit" tends to keep the same frame and shape for the most part, and the Titan-A looks nothing like the Luna class Titan lol. So I never thought it was a refit of the Luna class Titan.
Yeah I was thinknig that maybe they gutted to the luna titan to refit a shangri la ship to create a "new" Titan A. Although why did they not just use the Luna Titan? Its a great looking ship only trekie book fans really know about. That being said I'm a sucker for Bill's designs so let them come up with what ever screy lore they want if it means we get a physical model of this beautiful ship someday.
Even though I kinda like the movie style Shangri la better. The aesthetic of the old crew movie ships where just so cool.
@@loganholmberg2295 The issue is the Constitution III is considerably bigger than the Shangri-La (which was close to the size of the Constitution refit). Certainly, the Luna is bigger than canon TMP-era ships.
The lore for the neo con is frankly a mess
I thought that around the dinner scene with Shawm it was implied or stated that the A was his ship now. Making me have the impression Riker commanded this ship before.
That was what was said. A lot more on-screen dialog points to Rikers titan and Shaws titan being the same ship. Also, at dinner Shaw complains to Riker he does not like his taste in music going on to say it was buried deep in the computer system taking a lot of time and work to remove. Also, at dinner when Riker and Picard ask Shaw to change course, he asks why he should do that and Riker exclaims for bragging rights to show what the refit titan and its captain can do compared to what the previous captain who was now on board could do pre- titan refit. Before going on the titan Picard also comments its Rikers previous command with Riker commenting that's the only reason he has any sway on them being able to get on the ship. He never corrects Picard to say it's not the same titan or the only thing the two ships have in common is a name rather he just says it's a refit again making it seem like the same ship. Production wise it might or might not have ever meant for it to be the same ship but at some point that may have changed if it wasn't since everything on screen says it is
Ok, this has got to be the place to bring this up. I love all the iterations of Titan and I am not here to put in my two pence about how they relate to each other. I am, however, here to ask a question. When Nemesis came out and they name dropped Riker's new ship, the U.S.S. Titan, I immediately went online to find out what this ship looked like because they did not show it in that movie. Of course I did, lol. I found some info on it and it was described as a colony type ship and it was massive. At the time I found a size comparison chart and it was bigger than the Enterprise E. It was a gigantic ship that could hold thousands of people in the event of an emergency or population move. It had the same basic shape as any Enterprise...just much bigger, hence the name TITAN. It was a titan of a ship. Years later, when I saw Riker's Titan, I thought well isn't that a cool ship but that is not what I remember. Does anyone else recall seeing that version of the ship? Granted, it might have been just a fan creation, but I could have sworn I found several sources that collaborated this huge starship.
The idea that the Federation, that Starfleet, only had that one set of yards over Mars is clearly dumb. Sure Mars was taken out (in a stupid way) but that should only temporarily impact shipbuilding, but a 20 year effect. Making it all about the Sol system is very 'small scale' and Human only thinking imho.
Enjoying the season but good lord they have no idea about starships. Seems like all involved are trying to have their cakes and eat them too. Cockings is 100% right on the script issue - normally you'd carry out some last-minute REWRITES to make things make sense but no, they went with mental gymnastics instead. The stuff about resources and replicators is BS. Where did the USS Copypastas come from in Season 1 then?
Dave answered that on twitter. One design is easier to mass produce than a bunch of different designs. Starfleet needed a quickly built defense fleet, that's where the Inquiry Class came in.
Doug Drexler doesn't know about Starships?
@@tuskin3811 I don't understand. He said resources were scarce after the destruction of the shipyard, and they have to cannibalise parts of the Titan - but they can somehow use those resources to create 200 ships? What does it matter that they're identical, they're still resource-intensive to produce.
@@tuskin3811 I didn't say Doug Drexler, I said "they". It ought to be clear who I'm talking about.
@@skepticalbadger Some of the plot holes created in this show you could fly a Bog Cube through. How is the destruction of one ship yard that's part of an organisation that spans a huge swathe of the inner galaxy putting such resource restraints on them?
"Refit" in the loosest sense of the term. I too was confused but the post dom war change in build philosophies reason covers it well
All they needed to do was delete “refit” from the script. The “organ donor” method makes perfect sense with the loss of Mars.
Also like you said about the new ship don't forget it happened alot with the Enterprise eg nx-constitution - excelsior-ambassador-galaxy-soverign-odessy
I'm just going to assume all those Mirandas that didn't die in the Dominion War were pulled out of mothball, gutted and mated to a new engineering hull. There may be some donor Luna Titan parts in the Titan-A, mission systems etc, but that's about it.
Imagine having an Engineering staff on the Titan-A that DOESN'T know how to fix all the systems on their ship because they are "old". That's ridiculous. It was the most unbelievable thing on a very strong series so far for me.
i think its more along the lines of,Shaw was very qualified, the changlings were a potential threat, the less crew brought in to fix the issue, the better.
Seven said that they needed Shaw to fix it because all engineers are busy fixing the warp systems that were BLOWN THE HELL UP, and Shaw was the most qualified of the non-engineers.
In the show they say everyone in engineering is busy monitoring the warp core i took that ad all hands of the engineering department are full.
@@dylanharrisontemp641 Shaw adds on to that saying, and I quote: "In spite of the fancy retrofit, the inner workings of the nacelle shields are 20 years old and none of these kids know how to hotwire it." So yes, they wouldn't know how even if they were free.
in the modern military this is actually an issue. and non military this is an issue with auto and machinery repair.
The neo consitution titain should of been a totally brand new ship not a refit of the luna titian which makes the neo consitituin titan way too u der gunned amd weaker shields then other starships
The Titan wasn't under gunned, Vadic's ship was over gunned.
Trying to rationalize everything behind this ship and its class makes my head hurt..
@@jamesaron1967 Makes perfect sense to me.
I love Picard season 3 but the mistakes in writing are mounting… why didn’t they just say the Titan A was a new ship? It makes no sense to refit a vessel in this way.
So its a kit-bash taken to a different level
man how do you paint something like this. when every element in the picture potentially has a basic grey metal color and then you have to come up with different shades so that everything doesnt look the same and on top of that you got different shades from different lighting conditions that make your previous choices overlap in brightnesslevels and then in the end you also have to decide to sacrifice huge portions of detail in certain areas to get realistic specular lighting. im so jealous
I collaborated with Dave and John on this (you can see Dave tagged me in the original Twitter post), so I can shed a bit of insight.
I created the scene in 3D following Dave's ideas and instructions, setting up the lighting and composition of the shot. I made the ships glossy and shiny per his instructions, which allowed John to paint over it with my work as a reference, and allowing him to recreate the accurate lighting. He also added some lovely details on top of that :)
I’m guessing they were building what would be the Titan- A when Rikers Titan was towed in, and as this type was probably supposed to be a smaller, more economical design compared to the Sovereign and Odyssey types, they salvaged what they could from Riker’s Titan for use on the new one. Riker might have had some time with it before Shaw took command. Whatever assigned name was planned originally was changed.
My head cannon now is that they used the Titan's computer and just couldn't be bothered to change the name in it, slapping an A on it and changing the ship's name. Why? Cuz Shaw said he was going through the computer deleting all of Ryker's Jazz.
This just cements the idea of this being a "refit" even more absurd. They're not even close to similar in any way. I do like the design (mostly, not too keen on the nacelles) but the idea this was somehow carved out of a Luna class is silly. Maybe if you replace every component and part of the superstructure, like a ship of Theseus kind of situation (or Triggers' Broom from Only Fools and Horses for any fellow Brits over a certain age!).
Cannibalizing parts from one ship to another is nothing new. I know for a fact that parts from CVN65 USS Enterprise (and by default some from CV6 as well) are being used on CVN80. I work with some stuff currently and we have taken equipment from CVN74 USS John C Stennis while its in its mid-life overhaul for fitting out the new CVN79 USS John F Kennedy. Anchors of ships get moved around all the time as needed, along with weapon and radar systems.
I like the Titan, but I'm having a tough time seeing the refit looking more advanced than the original Luna class titan.
It's not meant to.
@@tuskin3811 I disagree. Why build a ship 20 years later that is less advanced?
@@borg111 It isn't less advanced. Most of it is 25th century technology, it's just designed to look like a classic starship.
@Tuskin38 Yes, I agree that it has to have updated tech. Kirk Era ships look like antiques compared to the next Gen models.
@@borg111 Nah it doesn't. All the matters is the tech under the hood.
This of course also adds credence to the idea that Titan-A is built on a movie/lost era hull, the ship was complete, it served for a while and was decommissioned and retired, maybe decades ago put in the reserve fleet, or maybe something along the lines of a prototype for a new ship class at a simular time to Excelsoir, then Starfleet wanted something to replace the Titan, so to modernize the old hull they take what they need from the now decommissioned Lunar class Titan without having to completely dismantle and rebuild the ship, that way the old ship was refit to become the Titan-A, still had Riker's record collection because it is mostly the same ships computer, but still looks like a movie era ship, because it is.
The big problem with that idea was that would make the Titan-A likely a contemporary design to the Excelsior but it is much bigger than the Excelsior (because the Titan looked at most the size of the Ambassador class and in the picture Titan-A looks to be at least similar length)
I agree with you ... but don't tell STP 3 producers that.... SHHH
Simple - what can fit cannon and make the most sense. In looking at the images of the models in the conference room off the bridge - it seems like all of the ships are of similar size - Shangrila, Luna, Constitution III. Since we got a ton of 'new' ships Picard Season 2, I cannot see Starfleet going back to the TMP era design for new ships. Nor can I see them rebuilding the Luna to look like an older ship.
What I can see is much of the 'new' components of the tired Luna Titan being transferred to a retrofitted Shang-Ri-La, which was expanded into the new Constitution III. Warp nacelles and coils, warp core, computer cores. Since the Shang-Ri-La also had a bridge setup where the whole section could be ejected as a lifeboat, refitting a new command section would explain the larger bridge.
Overall, this makes more sense than revising the superstructure of the Luna ship, and making a ship that is retro.
I am sorry, but this is pure nonsense...the actual physical shape does not match in the 'transfer' of the ship's frame.
This is not organic grown ship, but a Kitbash...
I do have a question regarding the lifeboats. Where are they? Why are there none on the hull like all the other 24th century ships?
just refit it and make it look like the space shuttle discovery.
Didnt Commander 7/hanson order helmsperson Laforge that once cleared spacedock to go to warp 9.9 and thats when pPicard reminded 7/Hanson of an old procedure to warn engineering if your going past warp 9.
i'd say this is a surplus partially completed spaceframe from a Connie II, refitted to Connie III (changes to the primary and secondary hull plus neck and warp pylons) with the rest of the parts bolted in including the impulse engines, warp coils, and the like, and the leftover Luna class Titan afterwards was broken down for raw materials for the fleet rebuild while this refit recycle was used as a way to bang out smaller but powerful ships quickly, much like the size and power of the Luna, Akira, Norway, Steamrunner, Defiant etc and less bodies involved vs the turnaround to dedicate more to the rebuilding of the main fleet in other yards (logistics was also suffering a catastrophic loss from the Mars Disaster not just ships, both person and android losses that day vs before it happened). I would say a few write-off fleet got to be donors for old surplus frames as well as ships and frames possibly brought from the NAR fleetyards to the main Starfleet yards, so older frames with newer donor parts. Remember, Shaw deleted Riker's jazz so Titan A probably has the old Titan's computer core as well. by the looks of it, the Impulse array was pulled out from the old one and bolted right in along with the rear torpedo launcher and maybe a shuttle bay or two and the holodeck. i would say whole parts of infrastructure like the launcher assembly transplant resulted in changes like the shorter neck and larger spine on the primary hull, along with the altered warp nacelle pylons (shortened and flared out due to its new lower profile) as well to allow for some things to be cut out in one piece from the old Titan and grafted directly in and other things more structural on the hull plating like the phaser array would not be used but more modular items like the RCS thrusters etc could have been swapped in without any issue. Standardized parts were probably also taken advantage of. So it was both a feat of engineering with a flair for logistics. I can see why Shaw is so familiar, a greasemonkey who probably would be doing LS Swaps and suspension upgrades on 1970s Corvettes back in Chicago if he was alive today).
Since the first Titan was Shangrila class, I am going to assume the NeoConstitution is the refit of the original….makes sense to use warp nacelles
It’s like a giant step backwards in design from modern sleek post tng ship to motion picture era tall ship / it’s a bit hard to believe honestly
blass also said the computer systems from the luna was transferred over to the A as well which is why the jazz had to be removed. so that could have easily happened wile the warp coils where being transferred
Yes, the ship is new and not a refit. That’s impossible. It’s a new class which perhaps Riker Captained for a time before leaving. Then the ship was refit later on as ships are refit in todays Navy. No matter what is stated by the people in the show. The terminology they use is wrong. This is a new design class. Any refit would’ve been done over time.
The Motion Picture showed us how extensive refits can be. I think the Titan-A has parts from several ships, and the "A" means it was named after another ship and not a moon.
whats next a voyager b that looks like a old datalus class?
They've already shown a picture of Voyager B in the show - it's the Pathfinder class from STO.
@@ffnbbq well that pathfinder class is nice IMHO but it has nothing in common with the Titan A
I really feel like they should of chopped the neck and underhung the necelles so it’s got the titans shape
Yes, aside from the fact the neck is too dominant and ungainly.
@@jamesaron1967 yea I don’t hate but I don’t love I like retro look but I feel titan linage would be no neck and underhung necelles the enterprise was practically the same lay out as previous enterprises yea this isn’t the enterprise but yea then they would still be using a old concept but with more design changes I guess this was just cheaper for paramount last season save all the money possible after all 10 forward holodeck should of been the enterprise d 10 forward but they reused the bar from season 2
I have long thought that the Miranda class, and maybe other, similar ships like the Soyuz, was a Constitution class refit just like the 1701 refit, it just got a different configuration. That's why the parts were so similar. If that were the case, the idea of the "Constitution" in Starfleet design principles might specifically be a type of ship that can be adapted and refit with a lot of customization options, compared to something like the Intrepid which is more of a complete design (Yeagar notwithstanding). So this ship being a "Constitution III class" might be a indication of that, and could explain how and why parts from the Luna were used to build it.
2:41 technology Advanced where they don’t need to use 20 year old technology , but do it anyway 🤔
The explanation of the Titan would have made more sense if they just said it was designed as a commemorative design for Frontier Day
So apparently Starfleet has remained in the recycling business since the Dominion War
If this is right about the whole transplant theory… does the word refit work?
In one word, NO.
I agree- would LOVE to see this as a flashback!
On the titan A I keep noticing what looks like phaser banks on the saucer plus strips. It's not lights I'm seeing those are different shape of dual phaser banks and its easy to spot phaser strips. It looks like it has both. Am I seeing right?
You both forget though refits don't necessarily mean the same ship don't forget the new enterprise was the uss York town and there are other examples albeit I do agree that they technically misuse the word Refit.
An example of a disconnect in production. Should have been a new class named in honor of the Titan or....what I would have prefered....an updated Luna Class.
Visually, doesn't the Titan A have the same nacelles as the Sagan Class ?
Housing-wise, yes. Identical. However, if one goes at all by this painting Riker's Titan had salvageable cast verterium cortenide warp coils to be reused. So those coils were adapted into the other nacelle housings.
Beautiful picture
I do like that image of the 2 ships. Having the Titan-A as an already existing/renamed ship taking donor parts from the Luna class makes more sense. I don’t buy the whole Luna>Neo Constitution idea as doesn’t make sense given the overall shape and size of the ships, also why would you even bother doing that? The old Titan frame is 20+ years old (still quite young in my book!) that's taken some beating over time (remember they are decommissioning the younger Ent-F for this reason) and nothing lines up in terms of structure and shape. If you have to dismantle a ship so far down to then rebuild it back up then why not go from scratch using newer materials/technology. The old Constitution>Refit works because everything is still largely in the same position which isn't the case for Luna>Neo.
So I’d imagine here that the old Titan was simply decommissioned and parted out to other ships requiring components with a large portion going to an existing ship undergoing a refit...the Titan-A...and other parts going to in-service Luna Classes. We do this now with Aircraft etc.
I like all of the visuals, the art, the aesthetics, but none of the lore makes sense to me. Ok Riker's ship gets devastatingly damaged and it's easier to decommission than repair, and there's another ship that they can transfer the name to. All good. The "refit" comment I almost took as a jibe at the conny refit in TMP because based on the frame there's no way it's the same ship. More like the same scenario in ST:5 and Picard S3 where an existing ship gets the name, and they call it a refit.
But there's also a paradigm in universe that legacy ships have similar style motifs. Every Enterprise has had enough similar styling that you could see that class and go "One of them has gotta be an Enterprise." And now with Voyager-J and now Voy-B on screen in an MSD having contiguous design aesthetics. It expands that paradigm.
I would have much rather seen an advance in the Luna class design, or even the Luna class Titan get on screen. Neo-constitution III is fine and all, but the Titan-A looks like a ship out of time in 2402.
It's nice also that it's a Neo-constitution because it's doing a nod to kirks time that kick started the whole star trek universe.
The 20-year old nacelles makes more sense thanks to this image, the original Shangri-la class spaceframe was refitted with parts of the Luna-class Titan, creating a fully-fledged new ship and they said, 'hey we will pay homage to the donor ship and call it the Titan-A'.
i wish and hope this was the case and how i have this in my "HEAD CANNON" because the other options are foolish. Others have said the titan-A may look like Saavik's titan but Titan-A is twice the size..... WHY does it have to be twice the size?..... that's just DUMB. in real world, Bill Krause, who designed the shanghai La class obviously used aspects of the refit constitution style. Terry Matalas stated he wanted to get back the "clean" look star ship design and somehow they picked Bill Krause's design which was not canonized until STP 3. so why couldn't it be a Constitution exact scale saucer? even better pulling NCC-1777 from moth balls and "fitting" her with Riker's Titan core and warp drive would have been awesome..... BUT NOOOOOOOO we had to confuse fricken everyone with another whole ship calling it New, i mean, refit, i mean Riker old command, I mean (well know one knows what they meant) and to mess up it further the saucer section LOOKS like a constitution II but for some unknow reason is twice as large. Larger than the Enterprise-C.
I can't wait to see you guys talk more about this ship. The ball phasers and strips haunt me. 😅😅 Please oh please lets see some phasers used later in the show. So far they've just used torpedoes in the fights and I want to see so much more of this ship.
Dare I say I'd like to see a titan series. I like this new crew so far and its be great to see them in more of a traditional show with smart writers like these. Unlike the garbo we where getting with discovery and strange new worlds. The writing in Star trek every since JJ abrams took over has been such a let down.
Makes no sense. I dont understand why they didnt just say it was a new ship. Why call it a refit when it clearly bears no resemblance to the old ship whatsoever - and also when weve seen the Enterprise get A, B, C... replacement ships they are distinctly different new ships and not 'refits'. Titan to Titan A we would all happily accepted its just another ship.
Cannibalising the titan for some parts to make the A is perfectly fine but dont call it a refit!
It was a big enough stretch back in Star Trek the movie to say that this new ship was just a refit of the series one - but at least it was recognisably the same general shape ish...... even though most of it seemed to have been replaced.
This Ship makes no sense so far
Way couldn’t the Neo-Constitution have gone through a refit? It doesn’t mean that the Luna class was refitted into the neo-Connie. It just literally means that that new ship and class went through a refit. Refits are pretty common for naval vessels and it doesn’t always mean there are major design changes. This isn’t complicated guys. Riker could’ve even Captained the A for possibly it’s shakedown cruise and then Shaw took command.🤷🏻♂️
Or be simpler. Have it be the OG Titan
So the Titan-A is a resto-mod with a newer ship as donor.
Does the new titan have both paser strips and ball turrets? It looks like it from the model which I found super weird.
Should tag his instagram for reference. David Blass?
They made the Titan-A to kiss up to the older fan base . It is a copy and paste and super size of the Shanghai-la class and they couldn't even be bothered to remove the old Dual ball phaser mounts.
They put way more effort into designing the Shrike and the Intrepid . Also if Star Fleet ships are only made to last 20 years then Star Fleet is in real trouble .
Riker's Luna class Titan was designed to have a service life longer than 20 years, but it was critically damaged [as seen in the art above] in an undisclosed incident and was decommissioned much earlier than planned according to the tweet by Dave Blass...
Although, with how quickly technology advances, with how quickly design philosophy evolves, and with how quickly starship roles change, 20 years can be a very long time...
So designing a starship to have a service life of only 20 years, as long as it's a quality design & uses quality materials, isn't necessarily a bad concept.
Then, those quality materials can be recycled or reused in the next newer more advanced designed starship!! LOL!
Oh, and I totally agree with you about the how & the why of the creation & design of the Titan-A...
They could have saved themselves ALLLLL this trouble and just called this ship the TITAN, labeled it as such and said it was a refit and no need for another dumb A designation. I also like how Seven knows nothing of ship designs and inner workings and needs Shaw. Even though she’s familiar with old tech… Even though she was a Borg…
And first officer. She should know the ship she's XO on.
No this should just be og titan
@@paulrasmussen8953 but it’s not.
@Starch Wreck but it should be. Again writing fails.
Totan is too yoing of a shop to be decomissioned.
The picture is beautiful but not the Titan-A. Having both Titans in one image only underscores how much more I prefer the Luna-class. I realize it's purely subjective but many people seem to be echoing my sentiment. They should have rebuilt the Luna Titan and modernized it. Not for efficiency but to satisfy the fanbase. Something along the lines of what was done for the new Excelsior. That would have been enough and probably made 90% of the viewership content compared to what seems at most 50% right now. Too bad, this season rocks otherwise. As usual, you two are on top of things. Good video and explanation 😎
What I love is that Terry Matalas and Dave Blass are getting the older experience of people like Doug Drexler and the Okudas and by getting them involved and learning why these things look and feel this way and actually learning from their skills.
the titan a is a beautifully weird modernized letter of love to a beloved ship design and the titan legacy, its weird, but it works perfectly for me!
Btw: What are the 3 golden ships in the conference room? I would have thought the Titan and the Titan A but what is the third one?
Left to Right
Constitution III Class Titan (NCC-80102-A) - Luna Class Titan (NCC-80102) - Shangri-La Class Titan (NCC-1777)
I think you mean:
OG Titan NCC-1717
Luna Class Titan
Neo Constitution Titan-A
@@Mike19737 nope NCC 1777 - but you are right about the confusion.
The refit design made no sense at all.
Out of all the new trek ship designs, this is one of my favourites and I agree with the Captain, I would like this on my wall too
Titan-A became one of my favourite ships in Star Trek universe as well as I now like Captain Shaw more.
i dont like you at all. the titan a looks STUPID
@Michael G Oh look everone! Fucking Troll returns. I thought I never see you again. You should name yourself "Michael D".
Shaw, a big yes, the ship a hell no. JMHO
@@sw-gs LOL just becasue you like the new ship and everyone else hates it you are upset. ROFL grow up Karen
@@MiiFone1 Stop harassing me! I just stated my opinion and you keep attacking me verbally. Do you have any personal problem with me? If you do just say it. And my name is Suath'se not Karen.
Titan is a ship in the wrong century.... Everytime they take a step forward in the right direction it still comes with a face-palm 🙄
the same with the defiant, a totally different ship..same class sure but renamed
There should not be a Titan A yet
According to the tweet from Dave Blass, there's a Titan-A bc Riker's Luna class Titan was critically damaged [seen in the art above] in an undisclosed incident and decommissioned early...
@Patrick Chrzanowski and why maje tgat happen. Didn’t need. Heck it would maje more sense to be the og titan
the whole idea is stupid IMHO
🙃
Trek-tech continuity went out of style with bloomers, hasn't it? This is a retouched USS Shangri-La, which was a poor fit for its intended 23rd century setting anyway. It is an even worse fit for the 24th century. It is as if a modern guided missile cruiser were decommissioned and replaced by a Jutland-era dreadnought. The Titan II's nacelles are chunky, clunky, and don't quite fit any era. Impulse engines should be getting smaller with the generations, not bigger and boxier. Treknology has reached an aesthetic and pseudo-historical nadir. Nadir? No, it always gets worse; like Nero's big drill, it keeps digging down.
This is such nonsense. If we are to believe Saavik had a Titan then Rikers should have been the A. If we are to believe this isn't Saavik's Titan redone then I dunno what we're to believe.
Lazy writing. Poor respect to canon.
Agreed, but ignoring all of the anomalies behind this ship the rest of this season is actually quite good.
@@jamesaron1967 It's definitely the best of the 3 seasons but that's a pretty low bar. There are still lots of silly things, but it's passable IMO as Trek.
@@piman2k I completely get where you're coming from. I'm comparing it to an even lower bar - Discovery. STD (coincidentally appropriate acronym) is so bad that I needed to take a break from all things Trek and went on a 2-year hiatus from this channel!
@@jamesaron1967 I hear you mate, I really do. NuTrek in live action form has been so utterly abysmal it's made me lose hope. The animations are miles better. Who would have thought.
@@piman2k Normally, I don't view animations and haven't seen the two current Trek animated series, nor the SW animated series for that matter. But, I will be making an exception and seeing Prodigy soon; possibly LD as well if Prodigy is good.
Interesting...👍🏾
I think its not unreasonable in a time period when you can manufacture any shape you want, that a return to an older aesthetic, purley for the love it would be possible in canon. Whatever, I like the the featured structure with district parts, rather than the smoothed continuous and variably radiused intersections on later sufixed versions of the Enterprise
Ship is ugly and has bad lines. The underside looks like an iron and the back of the saucer is way overdone
Makes no sense to me. Why would a post-scarcity society that doesn't use money and can literally make things out of thin air be recycling ship parts when they can make them from scratch?
The TIITAA-A? Either I'm having a stroke or the person who input the text for the thumbnail is.