Symptomatic of the whole show - "clever" ideas thrown like confetti and ignored immediately if convenient to either the plot, running time, or gratuitous fan-service.
I do wish they kept the Titan as The Titan. She and her crew have earned their legacy. As for the Enterprise F, I wish they had kept it, and tied into STO lore. Making Captain Shon and his crew cannon. They already imported the ship, why not the rest of the lore. Would've loved to have seen Kirayoshi O'Brien on screen as its Chief Engineer.
I agree I felt the Titan was better suited to the initial adventure and then the new TNG crew and old crew conglomerate it on the F at the end of the show the Titan becoming the Enterprise G literally was I think internal Fanboy service from Terry matala super first the original series Enterprise I think they threw the enterprise-f under the bus with this I don't didn't think there was a reason to have the enterprise-g christened but it's too late now
It's no different than the A being reassigned from another ship. I'm fine with it, and I like the idea of it being downsized from a monstrosity to a more practical ship
@@boat1280 When the A was reassigned from another ship, it stayed the same class though. Same with the Defiant's replacement that was reassigned to it was "another ship" but "the same class". Also, if you don't like the "monstrosity" that is the -F, wait till the -J shows up.
@@boat1280 again what's practical is not set down in stone I mean practical the enterprise-d was a practical against the Borg Cube and yet it was the only thing available enterprise-e was further refining to deal with that and the enterprise-f was upscaled from that this is a practical shift? It's undergone and under sized and my own personal opinion the Titan a in the series got its ass kicked frequently thought my conclusion would be this is not a ship that will fare very well under circumstances if it encounters another Pierre sized adversary practical Mister boat I don't think practical is the right term to utilize for this ship substitute supplicant I don't think it contend as well as its predecessors in either resilience or Firepower the whole series premise validates a long-standing concern in mind adapting Borg technology has always been a mistake you shouldn't always emulate your adversaries cuz then you get into a trap. At least in the Confederation timeline Starfleet didn't do that or at least our core didn't do that they eliminated the Borg all traces of them so that they couldn't do what the queen did in this continuity but more practical ship that's in the eye of the beholder it's a smaller vessel with a smaller crew and to me it'll neither have the range or the prosperity of its predecessors
I sorta wish they called this ship the Picard. So it would retroactively make the show name based on the ship, like Enterprise, Voyager, Deep Space Nine, and Discovery before.
All they needed to say is that they updated the Titan during the year off, even though that's a stretch since it had just gone through a refit. I thought keeping the ship the Titan would have had more resonance, because then it invites the Titan into the "hero family" and then the Enterprise could have been an upgrade in ST Legacy.
Not to mention in a way disrespects Shaw and his death. Should have either kept it the titan or renamed it after shaw while panning over to show a new Enterprise -G next to it
Yes, there were several diminishing aspects to the rechristening. It was a disservice to the Titan as well as diminishing of the name "Enterprise". Not one of the best outcomes in a Trek series. Poor decision.
The Titan is a really cool good name itself though.... and my gripe is that they renamed her to Enterprise for no reason whatsoever, nobody serving on the Titan has any emotional connection to the name "Enterprise". So what was the point of changing the name from Titan then? IDK! 😐
@@jarrodskufcagaming5203 in that case the USS Defiant, USS Discovery or the USS Voyager can be renamed to the USS Enterprise. A ship did something, doesn’t mean it have to rename to enterprise.
So the new enterprise is actually the USS Titan launched at the end of Nemesis, that served until it was retrofit/upgraded to the Titan-A, then rechristen to the G 1 year later. Its basically a Goodwill ship. I have a good solution, it should have been the Enterprise-E being decommissioned after testing fleet controls and the the new Enterprise at the end is the Odessy class F. Then you can have the Titan and the F together.
I wish they had done that. The F being such a fresh looking and modern design should have been the new Enterprise. Sovereign class was still fairly modern even by the early 2400s. It could have served as a flagship until the end of the series when the Odyssey should have been launched, but they wanted to fast stream the Odyssey for some reason. I guess the viewership can't have its cake and eat it.
A new Enterprise, we waited since Nemesis. It should be sleek, bold, new. The grace of a sailing ship, the power of a heavy cruiser. The G does not have that.
It's fine, I guess. If it was just the USS Titan (not Riker's Titan, obviously) I wouldn't have minded as much, but this was the USS Titan-A, it was already part of an established legacy.
Agree with you about the titan. But respectfully unless they tell me it's the flagship then I can neither assume or dismiss the idea. But if it was for cannon fact the flagship then for me the idea that starfleet wants to get back to exploration and the neo constitution class represents that. To me anyways lol
@@darthsensei3838 saaviks titan was listed as the flagship too, I just think the notion of the enterprise will always be the flagship no matter what is something that fans have decided and not the writers of the show. Im just saying I don't believe there is a hard rule set in trek it HAS to be... So why assume it is or isn't until they tell us
Flagship or not, anyone who’s ever been in a navy is superstitious and a ship that gets renamed was in need of a change because it’s jinxed. Given how the previous Titan ended I’d lay money down that Utopia Planetia is already drawing up the H.
2:15 "It's either a hulk of metal, or decommissioned!" Ah yes, the best way to honor the name Enterprise, by having the -F either blown up off-screen or decommissioned off-screen. Just -F'n brilliant, producers. *slow clap*
@@LgiovanniF Please stop. It's okay to not like STO, but CBS did sign off on the -F, which still looks a lot more advanced than the -G ever will. Plus, they put such a big emphasis on name, so is the name Titan not good enough? Maybe USS Picard instead? How about the USS Shaw? But no, let the shoehorning of the producer's Enterprise-G. Because we "care about the importance of names". Also, that "Souless cashgrab mmo" helped work on the show by providing additional ships for S2 and S3.
@@salenstormwing yeah they signed off because theres too much demand for fanservice then complaining theres too much fan service and not enough. And its Picard... the literal reason Star Trek is still a thing. Does every single officer who died get their own ship name. I liked Shaw but he was one among how many who died in the borg take over... maybe the ensign helming the Excelsior, the Vulcan officer Vadic killed? The Enterprise crew saved the day in their own show and lived to tell about it. The dedication and renaming is an honour. Making the titan part of a lineage that has the most famed history in the federation. You are acting like the Ships feelings are hurt... but disregarding the crews feelings that they now operate the most famous named ship in the fleet. Its contrarian hipster edgelord fake anime fanboy crap.
@@LgiovanniF Ah yes... the "Contrarian hipster edgelord fake anime fanboy crap" that Trekyards agrees with me on. The rename was unnecessary, and the only one being edgelord contrarian around here is you because you don't like Star Trek Online. If you don't like it, that's fine. But you're treating the -F like this because you feel slighted because you don't like an MMO. Please, stop. It's okay.
Yep hated that they renamed the Titan-A as it destroys its legacy. The lower registry number is missing as it was present on the Titan-A, those 8 spotlights are the markers. See S03E02 when the Titan breaks the tractor beam.
I’m not a big fan off the Ross Class secondary hull, mainly the round deflector, I think if they’d softened into a bit more of an oval not necessarily to the point of the Galaxy though.
I can’t speak for anyone else’s opinion or motivations, but I’ll address a few points; the titan is not brand new tech, at least not all of it. We know that there was a significant amount of cannibalisation of the old Luna-class titan and Shaw used his old engineering knowledge to open the grills on the nacelles, implying it’s older tech. In terms of the titan being a ‘mid-level’ cruiser and why that’s inferior to the odyssey class or something similar, I think it’s a comparison with a contemporary navy and job roles; the larger, newer vessels, like the odyssey class are used to push the boundaries of federation space, to explore, to host diplomatic events, they’re used as command ships…etc., where as the smaller ‘mid-level’ ships are used for support roles, patrol duties, ferrying high ranking officers and dignitaries around…etc. For example, at one stage the excelsior class was the pinnacle of Starfleet tech and there was an excelsior class enterprise B as the flagship, but by the time of TNG, the Galaxy class was the pinnacle of tech, the flagship was a galaxy class and the excelsiors had been relegated to supporting roles. Another example would be that the titan is more like the 25th century equivalent California class from lower decks, in terms of tech and mission profile. It’s not the 25th equivalent of the constitution, excelsior, ambassador, Galaxy or sovereign, in terms of mission profile. That’s what the odyssey class is. I think, to use a contemporary analogy, a carrier strike group is commanded by an admiral from the flagship, that is always the aircraft carrier. Everything else is in support roles, whether that be defence, logistics…etc. Perhaps it is just personal perspective, but I really don’t think the enterprise or any flagship, if it’s not the enterprise, should be anything less than the best Starfleet has at that point. That’s not the titan/G.
I really hope that the shakedown cruise that new Enterprise-G is being done to test new upgrades that have been installed in the year since Frontier day. I think they should have done more to the ship then just scraped off the old name and registry number and paint the new ones on.
I really dislike that they made a new Enterprise. First, we only had the Oddy for one scene and it was active for only like 10 or 20 years. Second, Second, we only have a hundred years to go from the G to the J, only three ships away. We need to go from something tiny of the G to the JJ sized behemoth of the J. I'd like to see some progression. And, dang it, I would have liked to see more of the Oddy.
They only way I can slightly justify it is if the ship that was being built as the Enterprise G was destroyed and they really wanted an Enterprise immediately.
Maybe it was started at Utopia Planitia, but was delayed after the Romulan evacuation ships were started. In that case, whatever had been completed would have been destroyed in the Synth attack.
@@gamerfan8445 Yes, it was 17 years before, but restarting the G likely would have been pushed to the back burner, considering how many other ships needed to be rebuilt.
@@kwlkid85 The Star Trek: Picard Logs had it stated that the Enterprise-F’s critical systems were severely compromised during the Monfette Gambit, a rescue effort for Raillian refugees on Fenton IV. Therefore, the Enterprise was scheduled to be decommissioned early.
I agree that it felt like they disrepected everything the titan did that season by renaming it. I mean they had the model for the new Stargazer, either have 7 and jack on that or a new Enterprise based on that if they can't afford a whole new ship design.
Oh, the Endurance would have been awesome! I do agree with the captain. I am also extremely happy for Bill Krause, as well as Adam Ihle - Tom Morrone, Sean Torangeau. They have been gifted a true experience here. Proud!
The Titan got done soooo dirty. They spent the whole season struggling against the forces threatening the Federation, then the Ent-D swoops in for a bit at the end and steals the Titan's name? Terrible.
Still think this was a slap in the face to the Enterprise lineage in general and to the Titan-A in particular. My only hope is they CORRECT the mistake, bring a proper ship for the Ent-G and restore the Titan- and maybe we find out it was all a meta-joke from Lower Decks S01E10: Boimler- It's the Titan! Pakled Captain- Oh no, it's another Enterprise! But let Captain Nine be the captain of the Titan-A, the ship that actually ran the mission for the season, and give the Enterprise-G name to a ship of the line (that can be a proper flagship).
Well, they wouldn't want to appear like they've corrected a mistake, and this error cannot be corrected without looking like it was a mistake in the first place, so...
I'd rather they hadn't renamed the Titan the Enterprise G, I strongly believe it's bad luck. I hope if Star Trek Legacy gets the green light that this is proven to be only a temporary arrangement until a new "more appropriate" starship is available.
Still trying to figure out how Starfleet is going through one letter (D-G) each decade for 40 years, then only 3 (H-J) over 200 years. I guess they just start building them sturdier? ...or they get in a lot less trouble? It's a mystery.
When the Enterprise A was introduced at the end of Star Trek IV, it was not the most advanced ship design. The Excelsior class had already existed since Star Trek III. They chose to rechristen the older Constitution-refit class USS Yorktown to become the Enterprise A, instead of giving the name to a more modern Excelsior class design. So, there is precedent for the Enterprise G not getting a bigger, more modern starship class design.
You missed the reason why the Yorktown was renamed Enterprise though... it was because of the crew being assigned to her. THEY had an emotional attachment (and us fans also as a result) to the name "Enterprise". Which is why that renaming made sense. Who aboard the Titan (now renamed) has any emotional connection to the name "Enterprise" that would justify renaming the Titan? The writers did not bother to think this out very well IMHO. 😕
@@zyndeco6659 I am aware of the fact that the Enterprise B was an Excelsior class. I am just saying that not all Enterprises are the top of the line ship model of its time. It may have been for the benefit of Kirk and his crew that the Yorktown got rechristened as the Enteprise A, but it is still a precedent.
@@michaelshrader5139 I understand what you are saying Michael in terms of the reasoning. I am just saying that, regardless of the reasoning, the rechristening of the Yorktown in Star Trek IV still sets a precedent, like it or not, that not all ships named Enterprise have to be the biggest or most advanced class of ship for its time.
@@junkotamiya I'm sorry, but every new state of the art vessel had an Enterprise version. Excelsior was "the great experiment, ready for trial runs" when perfected, Enterprise B was commissioned.
Titan should have stayed the Titan. We should have seen the E retired on Frontier Day and the F introduced. (Or the D refitted and returned to the fleet with Riker in command)
Oh, I got the one and only solution why earth space dock is repaired so quickly: The reactivated Scotty from his retirement in the Norpin colony. He is just 104 years old if you do not count the 75 years in the transporter buffer.
HATE the fact that the G isn’t top of the line, but far more egregious is the fact that Titan was one of the few other legacy registrations in Starfleet, and they honor one legacy (Enterprise) by dishonoring another. Had it been a non-legacy ship I could accept it, but this was just wrong
The problem with the Ross class is it's very easily mistaken for another ship at a glance The problem with the G is not only does it look technologically inferior to the G it looks so old being based on a Motion Picture era look that the B.C & D look newer than it too. Besides the most exciting Enterprise this week in the Transparent Enterprise J in my view.
@@90lancaster _"The problem with the Ross class is it's very easily mistaken for another ship at a glance"_ - Indeed, but that would have been the main point. In honor of the Enterprise D its direct predecessor, which saved Starfleet and the Federation by extension - again. Combined with the latest tech onboard the Ross (ex. dual warp cores) I cannot think of a better ship class candidate for the G bar none. It would have made so much sense for numerous reasons (homage, armament, mission capabilities, imposing size, latest tech, aesthetics, etc.)
I agree this show was great I loved picard season 3 but 3 things i would of changed, i wouldn't have killed off shaw would of kept the neo-consitition class starship the titan A and just gave captain seven the enterprise F.
I agree with the first two but would have given Seven another major ship, something like a Sagan class. I don't see Seven as captain of an enormous capital ship like the Odyssey class F. I don't see her as a flagship captain at all, not so soon following a promotion to captain even if she's capable.
@@Mellowcanuck33 from redemption on he was more a diplomat and philosopher. His archaeology complimented his style as a man who saw the big picture. Definitley a warrior. But to me his talents lay in diplomatic missions.
I feel the dirty was done with the Enterprise-F by giving it to us only to say they were taking it away. I really hate that they did that because I love the Odyssey-class. I do wish that the Enterprise-G was a new ship and the Titan really should have stayed as the Titan.
The Odyssey class was definitely done wrong. Should have been introduced at the end as a new class brought about from the near destruction of the fleet.
Assuming the comparison specs are correct, it appears that the Enterprise G is almost the same size of the "E" in terms of interior volume. It's all a matter of layout in the same vein that the Miranda Class actually had more space than the Constitution refit. The Constitution III may have fewer decks than the Sovereign but it really doesn't appear to be that much smaller in girth and mass.
Yes, it doesn't appear intended to be that much smaller than a Sovereign. It's just that the Neo-Constitution seems an underwhelming class in both combat performance (battle with the Shrike) and appearance (anachronistic). The Duderstadt class by comparison is so much nicer. If they wanted to use a ship of this size they could have renamed a Duderstadt class ship instead. I would have been much more thrilled about a new series with this class as the hero ship.
@@jamesaron1967 I agree a new class would have been far more interesting. Obviously the rechristening was done for budgetary reasons but it seems like the producers could have at least added a few visible upgrades to the Neo-Constitution (modified engines, different hull plating, etc) to the 3D model to make the ship seem new without breaking the bank. Kinda like how they modified the Excelsior to make the Enterprise B. They could still utilize the Titan sets.
@@cornerofthemoon Honestly, I'm not convinced it was solely out of budgetary constraints. If the only alternative was to create a brand new capital ship model then yes, I'd agree budgetary concerns were the main reason. However, they had a plethora of superior class models already on the shelf. You mentioned the Excelsior II, but there's also the Ross, Sagan and even the Inquiry classes. If a mid-range vessel was preferred there's the all new and in my view beautiful Duderstadt class. These are already rendered and paid for models. Some people believe there was a personal reason Matalas rechristened the Titan-A to the E-G. I'm starting to think they may be correct.
The Enterprise was not the flagship in Wrath of Khan….it is a training vessel…the Shangrila are taking over, and the Excelsior is about to be the top dog
That's because it was an old ship and they had newer, more capable ones available. This is a downgrade from the F, in quite a substantial way. The F survived the battle from what I could tell, so why it wasn't fixed up and kept the name I don't know, or a new, better class to take it's place (it was supposed to be decommissioned, implying they had a new one ready or almost ready). This just dumps on the legacy of the Titan and isn't really befitting of the name Enterprise either. The logical name would be USS Picard, given everything leading up to that point including the dialogue directly before its unveiling.
The first time I ever heard the word "flagship" in association with the Enterprise was at the start of TNG. I don't ever recall hearing it before in TOS or during the movies. Before TNG, Enterprise was a name handed down to ships that built a legacy and commanded the respect with their voyages and eventually earned the position of flagship with the launch of the D in 2363. I can only imagine even after the disastrous launch of B it managed to come back from it. I reckon that Klingons would have felt fear believing that the spirit, strength and essence of James T. Kirk was absorbed into that ships hull.
The enterprise as permanent flagship is just the non canon claim which makes my head scratch why they insist on it. The A became the flagship (aka there was no mandate that this ship name always be the flagship), the B and C are never mentioned to be flagships in canon. The weirdness continues with other ships being explicitly stated to be flagships because they have admirals on board for some fleet or task force which the D and E never had which makes the usage of the term pretty nonsensical. Imo one can take hero ship worship too far. It is entirely fine for a ship name to be used with preference for the premium ship classes. But this flagship term may have made sense for the D as some diplomatic token, but fleets do not think so simple minded. There is tradition in keeping a name in circulation (still there were decade big gaps between the Enterprise versions so even that apparently was not a thing so why would some insistence Enterprise being a flagship be a thing?!), but you assign flagship status for some purpose to a ship best suited to it.
The Titan should have stayed the Titan. As for the Enterprise, if the all ready decommissioning it, it seems the all ready building or had the next Enterprise built. They did not in to way it was being decommissioned.
I think you are right it was the cheapest option available. No money for a different bridge to do the warp out scene with a different ship. The Titan-A should have continued on as is. They really didn't need to mention the G at all because they never said what happened to the F. If it was being decommissioned due to major system damage how is it flying around for Frontier Day? If Geordi could bring back the D to its former glory.... and the E continued after having it saucer section caved in.... The F should have been fixable....
I 100% agree with you guys! Season 3 of Picard was spectacular, but this scene had my jaw on the ground (and not in a good way) I was utterly disappointed! This is no flagship! This is no ENTERPRISE! They should have kept it “ the TITAN” ….
When I was in the Navy in the 1980's the Flagship of the Navy was the USS Constellation (CV=64). That meant that she had Red, White and Blue neon lights that lit up her number on the island. That was about it. There were 6 newer carriers in service at the time with 4 of them being Nuclear powered and the last few, much newer. It was an honor thing. They didn't have the right to just show up to another battle group and take command out of the blue. I even thought that it was funny in Next Gen when they went to earth somewhat unannounced and Star Fleet was like, (What can we do for you) (It is always a pleasure for us to see the fleet flag ship). It isn't always like Trafalgar with Nelson on HMS Victory.
The Constellation wasn't really a flagship. "America's Flagship" was just a nickname that Regan gave it on August 20, 1981 right before the ship began it's13th deployment in October of that year. The US Navy doesn't designate symbolic flagships, and the closest thing to such a symbolic flagship would probably be the USS Constitution. By actual definition a flagship carries command staff and this flies their "flag." The US Navy does have two of those (USS Mount Whitney and USS Blue Ridge), but they're practical, not symbolizing greatness, as the Enterprise was supposed to do. The Enterprise F had an admiral in command, so it was probably the flagship both practically and symbolically. The HMS Victory was also that during its time.
@@memfan7417 WOW. Were you in the Navy in the 1980s?. And did you read what I wrote. I said that it was more of a title than a quote un quote real thing, and that is how it feels in Star Trek even though it is most likely people who write the story that don't know Jack about the military. And as far as Regan and the Constellation. The Carrier was 24 years old when he was President. So no he didn't proclaim it as the Flagship. I was on Ranger, Kitty Hawk and Enterprise and they were all 18 to 28 years old in 1987. And yes the Command ships now are more in a sense Flag Ships, but each Carrier/Battleship (then), and or LHA in their respective Battle Groups are the Flagships of their groups, as they carry the Admiral of those task group forces. But yea, The Constellation was the only Carrier back then that had the privlidge of having the title of America's Flagship, and that's all it was. A tittle. When she was deployed she was no different than the other carriers in the Navy.
@@stltrekmodels.4157 Wasn't intending to offend, and that what it looks like I did based on the "Were you in the Navy in the 1980s?" comment. My truly sincere apologies if I did. I was largely agreeing with you, and just trying to highlight that the US does not even use the model of officially designated ceremonial flagship title that the Enterprise has carried since at least the movies. Many other countries do use such a title for their top vessel. For example, in the UK, HMS Victory is the permanent ceremonial flagship, but the UK navy also designates an official "fleet flagship," which is usually fleet's most advanced and prestigious active vessel. In the UK, it's currently HMS Queen Elizabeth. It usually doesn't carry flag officers or have command functions, but It holds the official designation as "fleet flagship." The Enterprise has been analogous to this within Starfleet since at least the movies. Btw, I misspoke in my earlier comment saying that Regan gave the nickname "America's Flagship" at the commissioning. It was actually at the refit ceremony in 1981, so I edited my comment accordingly. And I completely agree that the writers never seem to know jack about the military, lol. They don't get time in grade, and they seem oblivious to the fact that there are three grades between captain and full admiral. Everyone except Geordi seems to just jump from captain to full admiral!
Christopher Monfette said that it's supposed to represent a promotion for the ship. That's fine, and all, but I don't see how the ship that was originally the _Titan_ is going to be impressive enough to take over as the flagship when it's not even as impressive as the previous class, or another one they happen to have lying around (the _Ross_ class).
I have similar sentiment about size, the Titan having earned it's keep.. But I'm just glad good Star Trek is being made. I love Strange New Worlds and am excited for the Seven of Mine show, she's great. I'm sure we will all end up loving the G.
Head canon on the Enterprise-G: There is a loophole in one of the treaties the Federation signed banning their use of cloaking devices, that exempts ships named Enterprise from the treaty when using cloaking devices manufactured by someone else as long as the device is removed by some milestone. It was included in the treaty to avoid problems from the TOS episode where they stole the Romulan cloaking device. However, the wording was non-specific enough to cover the Titan-A's use of the cloaking device from the Bounty as long as the Titan-A is rechristened Enterprise. Normally, the Federation wouldn't bother with the loophole, but with the fleet heavily damaged and there having been recent issues with both Romulans and Changelings, the Federation goes ahead and renames the Titan-A to Enterprise just o be safe.
It would have been better to have just shown the scene till just before the ship and name reveal and then cut it off and leave us hanging. Then they could have used the time to figure out exactly what they plan to do. With the Titan-A is now the Enterprise G reveal they are locked into that for the next show. How cool could it have been instead they show a Constellation Refit named Picard. Or show an updated Galaxy Class design named the Enterprise G. Or at least have Jack say something like "The paint job is only temporary they are about to start on major upgrades to get her up to the level of being a Flagship." Like the Commander said this feels so cheap and it just shows super higher ups don't want to spend anymore money on Star Trek.
Sao Paulo to Defiant was a good rename, it clearly made sense in-fiction. This enterprise... ok, Picard obviously has attachment to the name, both for the D and the (I feel, uncredited, given he was captain almost as long on the it as the D) E. And he won't even serve on it. In a way it feels like the cliché time at the end of a movie when the protagonist can have what they sought for the entire time, and instead decide to stay with what they learned to love trough the adventure. And this time instead "Titan" is just uncerimoniously thrown away. I can't shake the feeling of it being cheap fanservice.
I'm not sure I blame the fans for this though... it was poorly thought out writing IMHO. Nobody on board the Titan had or has any emotional attachment to the name "Enterprise" so why rename an already well named ship? It just, makes no sense to me at all. 😕
@@michaelshrader5139 I'm not blaming the fans, I mean that it seems clear it's for them. A callback to TNG, to the Enterprise D specifically. And on this, even the reunion scene with the ship, while I have no problem with i,t it might be a bit odd in-universe considering D lasted for 8 years and Picard was also captain of the E for 10 years. Imagine the equivalent of 10 seasons of TNG on a new ship. The D was where the crew met, and it was their first Enterprise, but I would expect something somewhat closer to meeting the Stargazer again, not 1:1 to what the D is to the fans, to us it is "the" Picard Enterprise. And yeah, save for pure prestige of the name, the G crew doesn't have that much reason to be attached to the "Enterprise". Yes, some had parents on the D and E, but it still feels odd to abandon THEIR identity for it.
I love the ship. I love the look of it. It shouldn't be called a Neo-Constitution Class. It doesn't look like a Constitution Class. It's based on the Shangri-La Class. It should also NOT be the Enterprise. The whole thing about renaming a ship being bad luck is a sea ship thing. The Enterprise herself has been a renamed ship. The Enterprise-A was renamed from Ti-Ho or Yorktown, depending on what's your source. The Sao Palo was renamed Defiant in DS9 after the original Defiant was destroyed. But I feel that the Titan-A earned her name. Riker's Titan has established it's own legacy that should be respected. The Titan was built from components from Riker's Titan. It should have kept it's name and a newer, bigger and better ship should have been selected to become the Enterprise-G.
Agreed I feel the same way! I Really like the design (except for maybe some of the nacelle details and the front of the secondary hull), I just don’t like the lore behind it. I think it should be a Shangri-la II class instead.
Turning the Titan into the new Enterprise was a HUGE disappointment. Considering how many ships in the fleet had been destroyed during the attack on the Starbase why not take the Enterprise D and perform a massive yearlong refit into a heavy battlecruiser / long range explorer?
That's essentially what the Ross class is. A massive upgrade to the Galaxy class. The D should stay in the museum because it's a revered vessel with tons of history and service to the Federation. What they should have done is rename an existing Ross class ship in honor of the D. It is both fitting of a flagship and looks a lot like a Galaxy.
This just doesn't feel right as the Enterprise. The Titan is wonderful in it's own right. I feel like the Enterprise G should have been an updated Odyssey class ship or some other new design.
You’d think that the flagship of the fleet would have the newest and best technology. Captain Shaw said that the nacelles were the oldest part of the ship, twenty years old.
A rebuilt Enterprise-F refit would had been awesome.But then again,with the Odyssey class being a STO design,would the show runners have to pay royalities for using the Odyssey design?Maybe renaming the Titan was a cost cutting measure just in case ST-Legacy becomes a new series.
What people miss is it makes sense for it to be the titan because the first ship we saw was kirks constitution class so it brings it back full circle with the Enterprise becoming a constitution class 😊
I think the issue stems from using the Titan A in the first place. If it had just been some randomn ship that earned it's place, that would feel more impactful, rather than going from one legend to another, when both should be allowed to exist at the same time.
I was also not happy that the Titan was decommisisioned. As you said, she earned her stripes. I get WHY they did it from a marketing and "hype" perspective. I mean, I fell in LOVE with the Titan this season. Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE Enterprise fan. Been watching since TOS days in the late 60's (yes, I'm that old,) but was hoping Legacy would star the Titan with the occasional guess appearance of the D. That will probably happen anyway, but it will be odd having an Enterprise D and G sharing the same screen.
Ship size using US Navy as comparison fits since Command ships are small. During WW2, battleships and carriers were primary targets because that's usually where the leadership is located. The Defiant led the Dominion task force including Galaxy classes. Wolf 359, Admiral's ship was implied to be the Melbourne. An Excelsior class ship... Small and unnoticed is an advantage.
8:37 - i would say Shaw was overseeing the refit for part of that time, as well as her launch. I'm wondering if she was originally going to be for Riker but his personal issues got in the way and then he passed, and then Starfleet offered Shaw the captain's chair due to both his refitting the ship (knowing each inch of her like Decker in TMP) as well as maybe he WAS going to be the new First Officer (probably deleted the jazz out of resentment and the disorder it's owner had caused in passing on the Titan A?). ive also read somewhere that there will be a Titan B?
I have mixed feelings, while I love that it is a Constitution Class III, the third Connie to bear the name.(1701 Connie, 1701-A Connie II 1701-G Connie III) And that Seven got the command, I like you feel that the Titan A earned her stripes. AND they could have got made this work with just a little dialog. At the point where Picard says" Ah, the Titan" Jack's rebuttal could have easily been in this vein. . . " Not quite, she is over there getting a short refit ( points to the left), this ship has just been newly commissioned and is being christened in honor of you and your crew."
"Constitution III" class is just stupid though. How is it any more of a Connie than any other saucer/engineering/nacelles on swept pylons design? It's literally a made over Shangri-La class. The 1701-E is more of a "Constitution" design than this. And then they rename it Enterprise. Absurd.
@@skepticalbadger Well, to be frank about it, its not always about the look. Why is the B not a Connie, well thats because the first ship of the line was the USS Excelcior the C hailed from the USS Ambassador . The D of course came from the USS Galaxy, the first ship of the line for the E was the USS Sovereign . And so on, just the same as the USS Enterprise CV-6 is a Yorktown class, the first ship of that line of course is the USS Yorktown CV-5 . The CVN-65 is Enterprise class and the only ship of her line, the CVN-80 will be of the Gerald Ford class. This also indicates that the USS Titan A/Enterprise G's classes first ship of the line was named USS Constitution. Some have argued that the refit 1701/1701-A is a whole new class, "Enterprise" class if you will, but it is also argued that since the refit was done on the original space frame with modifications, it still classifies as a Connie, hence Connie II. As far as the renaming of the Titan A, I agree with that being absurd. Titan A earned her stripes. If you note in my original statement, a simple line of dialogue could have changed that.
@@erichelvie8524 I know this is 6 months later, but wow I really like all the detail you went into, really nice read! And I am really happy that it’s a constitution class again! However, though you said it’s not always about the design (and I agree), I think I’d also have to agree that it feels much more like a Shangri-la II class than a constitution III class. And if it’s called the constitution III class because the first ship was named the uss Constitution, why did they make it look like a shangri-la instead of a constitution class? I like how the ship looks, just not a huge fan of the lore surrounding it tbh.
I suppose the A wasn't the most advanced of its time. I'm not sure it was ever clear whether the C was the most advanced of its time either. But still. They were at least above average technology. The G isn't even that...
The emotional beat of the rechristening worked in the episode really worked. Even though I didn't love the idea of the Titan being the new Enterprise. I don't think it was a budget thing though. I saw an interview where Terry said he thought of the whole season as basically the 'origin story' of their new enterprise
I agree with both of you 100%, usually always do. And I agree with you mostly in this case, part of me thinks one possible reason why they did this is a case of the Titan "A" did so well it deserved to be the next Enterprise because it earned that spot, because her and her crew handle the situation in Enterprise like fashion Maybe. just something that came to mind, although I do agree got an entirely new ship would have been better. And of course as usual you guys are absolutely fantastic and thank you for all you do.
Why would they rename the Titan? Hasn’t the Titan earned its place? It’s like the USN renaming the USS Nimitz to the USS Enterprise. It would have been far more satisfying if they had just made the Enterprise G another Neo-Constitution ship. I also like the idea that the Enterprise G is just another capital ship and not the wizzyest most advanced thing ever to take to the stars.
Scotty: Why in god's name would you want that bucket of bolts!? Kirk: A Ship is a ship. Scotty: Whatever you say sir, thy will be done. Although I am with A LOT of other people I really wish we had gotten a brand new ship for the E-G instead of a re-christened Titan-A. I have to agree with Stewart that I half expected it to see it as the "U.S.S. Picard" ...but I partly knew we were going to see a new Enterprise...but yeah this was just real cheap. I also agree with Stewart that they had used the class Stewart mentioned. Don't get me wrong I loved all of season 3 but yeah...wish we had gotten a completely new ship. Non cannon the E-A was originally named the Yorktown. So it wouldn't take much for Starfleet to have re-christened a ship that was already built and had a name but problems. The Yorktown could have been new and only been in service for the three months before it encountered the Whale Probe and thus created the problems Scotty mentioned. I mean Scotty said in Star Trek V "I think this new ship was put together by monkeys. Oh she's got a fine engine, but half the doors won't open and guess who's job it is to make it right!?" Which again goes with my theory that the Yorktown was definitely a newly built Constitution Refit but was probably in service for a short time before having that unfortunate encounter with the Whale Probe. Apparently the E-F had suffered a massive computer problem while it was on its last mission so hence it was slated for early decommission.
Ekhm... in fact there might be more than one flagship in Starfleet. Remember that Starfleet like modern Navy is devided on Fleets. Each Feet is commanded by Fleet Admiral (5 pips) while each squadron of ships is commanded by Admirals nad Vice Admirals. Two pips Admirals are in command of Starbases and Commodore is rather and honorary rank for retired Captains or teachers from Starfleet Academy. So each fleet has own flagship which means that this ship is not only representing specific Fleet and Squadron but also has best officer cadre in entire Fleet. Regarding size of future ship I think Enterpise - J was alternate timeline ship from universe where Sphere Builders anomaly in Delphic Expanse was not destroyed by Enterpirse NX-01. Since Archer destroyed spheres this timeline was pushed into alternate universe from that moment future was rewriten and Enterpise - J was erased and possibly replaced by other class of ship evolved from Enterpise-G.
Yes, the Enterprise J was from another timeline which is no longer valid, assuming history in the Archer series timeline are causal to events in Picard (don't want to get into the whole parallel timelines bit). What I am certain of is that Starfleet has only one vessel designated as 'the' flagship of the fleet. What is meant by that is the ship that represents and is symbolic of the Federation. It's not only a command vessel in times of war.
It was the biggest let down of the many small let downs in S3, it just doesnt make sense to make her the G, it would have been great to keep it the titan and give it her own show with seven as captain. Enterprise was always top of the line when it was put in service
My only issue with this ship being the G is that it subtracts from the Titan-A. I think that we had a problem with the Enterprise lineup, that being the fact that every new ship is significantly larger. As much as I love the D and E, there was a lot of crazy space on those ships, and the J is just ridiculous. For that, I like that they went with a smaller ship. And being smaller isn't a problem, the Defiant was a beast of a ship. The only argument for having a larger ship would be range, but Voyager arguably proved that doesn't really matter either. All that said, I would like to see more of the G in a coming series, and I would not have a problem with it getting a refit to help distinguish it from the Titan-A. New nacelles ate the least, maybe new primary and secondary shapes as well, akin to the B being distinguished from the Excelsior, or the TOS Enterprise and the film Enterprise. As far as it being the flagship, I don't think it's that important that it is. The Enterprise earned it's place because of it's legacy, and maybe after the E and the F another ship has earned it's place to be the flagship at this point. Maybe the Voyager-B. But if we do want the Enterprise-G to remain the flagship, I don't think that's a problem either. Just give it the most advanced tech in Starfleet. Maybe let it keep a cloaking device. There are ways to make it the flagship apart from being the largest ship. I will say that I was expecting a different ship to be the G in that scened. I thought they were gonna pull a Star Trek IV pull away to reveal the new ship, and when it happened I was at first disappointed, but looking back I really don't mind. I think that if we get some good screen time with this ship being the G it will normalize it a bit and earn everyone's respect. She is a good looking ship, and I think most of us loved it when we first saw it revealed in the trailer. This brings me back to my original point, the only real issue is this takaing away from the Titan legacy.
I'm tired of smaller, sleeker, supposedly more maneuverable ships. I want to see the biggest, strongest, fastest ship ever built as the hero ship of a series. We haven't gotten that since the Next Generation (three decades ago!). I thought the E was a beautiful design, but it was smaller than the D, so I was excited about the F, but then they just did away with it in one episode (even though it was supposed to be the most technologically advanced ship ever made with slipstream drive, etc). I feel like they took the F that real fans were desperate to see at the center of a series, gave it a single appearance to make it canon, and then dropped it for yet another small ship.
Yeah. The F should have been refit and put back into service. The Titan should have kept its name to honor its legacy. Renaming it Enterprise was fan service taken a step too far. They already had enough fan service in this full season. I don’t actually like having quite so much fan service; Star Trek is supposed to be about the *new*. Too many fans are looking backwards. While it’s fun to have those call backs, it’s less likely to stand the test of time if everything is about the past. Hopefully ST:Legacy will move us forward. We’ve had too many shows that are retrospective lately (which is not to say it’s all bad; SNW has been fantastic); but it’s time to move forward and develop some new storylines and characters. P.S., I don’t think it’s all about size though. If technology advances to where more powerful technology can be put into a smaller ship that IS more maneuverable, that makes sense. But you’re probably right that the hero ship (at least if it is an Enterprise) should be a more advanced and larger ship. On the other hand, there is something to the idea that a smaller, scrappier ship has to face difficult odds because it’s not the biggest and baddest; and a series with a refit Titan would have fit that bill nicely, rather than having a downgraded Enterprise. Yet another reason the Titan should have stayed the Titan and the Enterprise should have been a refit F or a new G. We don’t always have to have Enterprise be the star of the show (I even questioned making the hero ship in Enterprise the Enterprise, although it does kind of start the legacy and explain why the Connie Enterprise is considered the flagship despite being just one of many Connies). I have no problem with ST: Legacy being about the scrappy little ship (the Titan) that could; rather than having to have it be yet another Enterprise when it doesn’t make sense. 🤷🏻♀️
The Titan just doesn't feel like an Enterprise. Considering that "give em everything we got" equates to 4-5 photons, this ship is far weaker than at least 2 Enterprises older. Moreover it's just too soon. F should have just come into service with the G coming 20 or 30 years later.
Honestly I liked the idea of star fleet going back to a simplified design in order to streamline production , but I have to agree I was perfectly happy to see the Titan as a future hero ship.
I think the mistake was Calling it the Titan in the first place, it should have been a new ship with a registry and a project code name or an expected name, why not Constitution, Mostly With new "old" crew from another vessel on extended shakedown, because it was waiting for formal naming ceremony, deferred until the anniversary celebrations.
R.I.P. Titan-A. She went before her time. Loved the Big E since the sixties yet I am so sad for the Titan legacy. So, as far as I can remember the Enterprise-D was the first Enterprise (in cannon) to be referred to as "the flagship of the Federation and Star Fleet".
The show was doing so well until this point. The enterprise is a ship that has always sent the standards of the best ship with the most update to tech. This is not only a tiny ship but nowhere near as powerful as even the enterprise E. I reckon the D come blow this out of the sky. Very disappointing. Wanted to be blown away by a brand new ship not the easy option
@Mark Southwell didn't say it had to be but based on the history of the progression of the enterprise through the ages of star trek it has increased in size, power and technology so why change that not. Its the flag ship its meant to stand out from the rest no?
@@marksouthwell4490 thisnis what you find under the term flagship. A flagship is a vessel used by the commanding officer of a group of naval ships, characteristically a flag officer entitled by custom to fly a distinguishing flag. Used more loosely, it is the lead ship in a fleet of vessels, typically the first, largest, fastest, most heavily armed
i really would have prefered the Titan stay the Titan A TBH im not overall happy with them turning the titan into the Enterprise G now granted Star trek has done this before with the san paulo to the defiant but still i would have prefered SEVEN be the captain of the Titan A rather than the enterprise G
I agree with them that it shouldn't be the next Enterprise, name change to Picard if any name change needed. The reveal almost broke the episode for me, was that "off/wrong." Agree with the points of size/tech progression and the tendency of the Enterprise being among the newest, best, most sophisticated ships of the fleet. Ditto being the tendency of it being the flagship (if not presumed regularity); this is no flagship. It is what it is unfortunately, have to suck it up and accept it. If they do make Legacy (or whatever it might/could be called), holding out slight hope that it'll be a few years later and the ship has finally been uprated to match the name. Thinking this: After the events of episode the, perhaps it took all of Starfleet's resources to rebuild spacedock (or more and uprate an existing one in another star system) and repair damage to all the ships involved in the battle. Perhaps if there were similar attacks/events as other Starfleet installations, like the shipyard that the originally planned new Enterprise was being built at, it was also damaged or destroyed. No new ship ready for the name now, but since we're rebuilding (again) we want an Enterprise for morale and face saving reasons. Yea, it's not ready for the name, but now that we've fixed everything that was damaged/destroyed, now let's get the G back to dock and upgrade refit it to be technologically worthy of the name...
If you think it could have had an internal refit such as dual warp cores the phaser strips could have been upgraded. Same with shields but I'm reaching here. Plus I was hoping the titan would have had carpet when Jack came aboard.
I would have preferred it if it stayed the Titan because it has more than earned that name, but if they had to rename it then Picard would have fit better. Enterprise doesn't fit at all, it just seems like a huge downgrade for the Enterprise lineup since we always went bigger and longer for the next one. Guess they ran out of budget...
I wasn't happy with this rechristening from Titan - A to Enterprise - G, it seemed lazy. I get that they were struggling for funds after rebuilding the D's bridge set, but they should have made it the Picard, and left the G for the next clean-sheet design.
A big FU to STP season 1 & 2, loved season 3, not sure the Titan should of be renamed. Refit the D. And also I love the D came back but if the crew were looking for.a ship for the final Borg cube mission.... The Defiant
Think it's stupid to downsize the flagship by 50%. Why not just make the Cerritos the flagship then? There is no way that this can be the flaship! With Oddysey class ships and then the Inquiry class which are even more powerful...unless we're saying that the flagship is literally just a ceremonial role like the King of England having no actual power. Only two new Enterprises between it and the J now and 100 to 200 years to scale up to that behemoth.
The Titan absolutely deserves its legacy. I'm not a hater and am okay with the rename too if we must have it. But I'm trying to think of how that name change could be undone gracefully in a future show! How bout this? The Titan in fact gets the "honor" of holding the "Enterprise G" "flagship" name while a new Enterprise is prepared. Then, do you put Seven in a new series on the new Enterprise or on the re-renamed Titan . . . Titan B, with some enhancements. Brand new ship? I'd like to see a new Enterprise more than a refitted Titan-prise. (It's not the most elegant changing of ship names, but 10 seconds of dialog would explain it before moving on!
Unfortunately, if a new series is being considered as an spinoff of Picard, I don't think there will be any significant changes. Meaning, the G will probably still be the ex-Titan-A and Severn will still be the captain of the Enterprise G. Both of which do not make sense but those are the cards we as fans have been dealt with.
*Riker:* "Jean-Luc, this isn't the Enterprise…"
Seven episodes later, this _is_ the Enterprise.
It's the Titan!
Oh no, its another Enterprise!
Symptomatic of the whole show - "clever" ideas thrown like confetti and ignored immediately if convenient to either the plot, running time, or gratuitous fan-service.
I do wish they kept the Titan as The Titan. She and her crew have earned their legacy. As for the Enterprise F, I wish they had kept it, and tied into STO lore. Making Captain Shon and his crew cannon. They already imported the ship, why not the rest of the lore. Would've loved to have seen Kirayoshi O'Brien on screen as its Chief Engineer.
I found the writing not well thought out in this regard also.
I agree I felt the Titan was better suited to the initial adventure and then the new TNG crew and old crew conglomerate it on the F at the end of the show the Titan becoming the Enterprise G literally was I think internal Fanboy service from Terry matala super first the original series Enterprise I think they threw the enterprise-f under the bus with this I don't didn't think there was a reason to have the enterprise-g christened but it's too late now
It's no different than the A being reassigned from another ship. I'm fine with it, and I like the idea of it being downsized from a monstrosity to a more practical ship
@@boat1280 When the A was reassigned from another ship, it stayed the same class though. Same with the Defiant's replacement that was reassigned to it was "another ship" but "the same class".
Also, if you don't like the "monstrosity" that is the -F, wait till the -J shows up.
@@boat1280 again what's practical is not set down in stone I mean practical the enterprise-d was a practical against the Borg Cube and yet it was the only thing available enterprise-e was further refining to deal with that and the enterprise-f was upscaled from that this is a practical shift? It's undergone and under sized and my own personal opinion the Titan a in the series got its ass kicked frequently thought my conclusion would be this is not a ship that will fare very well under circumstances if it encounters another Pierre sized adversary practical Mister boat I don't think practical is the right term to utilize for this ship
substitute supplicant I don't think it contend as well as its predecessors in either resilience or Firepower the whole series premise validates a long-standing concern in mind adapting Borg technology has always been a mistake you shouldn't always emulate your adversaries cuz then you get into a trap.
At least in the Confederation timeline Starfleet didn't do that or at least our core didn't do that they eliminated the Borg all traces of them so that they couldn't do what the queen did in this continuity but more practical ship that's in the eye of the beholder it's a smaller vessel with a smaller crew and to me it'll neither have the range or the prosperity of its predecessors
I sorta wish they called this ship the Picard. So it would retroactively make the show name based on the ship, like Enterprise, Voyager, Deep Space Nine, and Discovery before.
I really liked the name Titan better though. Something else maybe could have been named "Picard", perhaps the fleet museum? LOL!
@@michaelshrader5139 yeah titan works best, its already a built in legacy.
this is a good idea
All they needed to say is that they updated the Titan during the year off, even though that's a stretch since it had just gone through a refit.
I thought keeping the ship the Titan would have had more resonance, because then it invites the Titan into the "hero family" and then the Enterprise could have been an upgrade in ST Legacy.
Renaming the Titan is discounting the sacrifice and contribution of both Titans
Not to mention in a way disrespects Shaw and his death. Should have either kept it the titan or renamed it after shaw while panning over to show a new Enterprise -G next to it
Yeah, Poor Riker. Oh man Poor Shaw! I hate that they did that. The Titan earned its legacy.
Yes, there were several diminishing aspects to the rechristening. It was a disservice to the Titan as well as diminishing of the name "Enterprise". Not one of the best outcomes in a Trek series. Poor decision.
That was the only thing I did not like of Season 3, the Enterprise-G. The Titan was a good ship but it is not worth to carry the name Enterprise.
The Titan is a really cool good name itself though.... and my gripe is that they renamed her to Enterprise for no reason whatsoever, nobody serving on the Titan has any emotional connection to the name "Enterprise". So what was the point of changing the name from Titan then? IDK! 😐
As Picard once said, "Plenty of letters left in the alphabet."
she was willing to fight off an ENTIRE ASSIMILATED SHIP, NO OTHER SHIP IS WORTHY TO BEAR THE NAME ENTERPRISE
@@jarrodskufcagaming5203 in that case the USS Defiant, USS Discovery or the USS Voyager can be renamed to the USS Enterprise. A ship did something, doesn’t mean it have to rename to enterprise.
@@gamerfan8445 do not bring up the Discovery she is a worthless ship
So the new enterprise is actually the USS Titan launched at the end of Nemesis, that served until it was retrofit/upgraded to the Titan-A, then rechristen to the G 1 year later. Its basically a Goodwill ship.
I have a good solution, it should have been the Enterprise-E being decommissioned after testing fleet controls and the the new Enterprise at the end is the Odessy class F. Then you can have the Titan and the F together.
I wish they had done that. The F being such a fresh looking and modern design should have been the new Enterprise. Sovereign class was still fairly modern even by the early 2400s. It could have served as a flagship until the end of the series when the Odyssey should have been launched, but they wanted to fast stream the Odyssey for some reason. I guess the viewership can't have its cake and eat it.
A new Enterprise, we waited since Nemesis. It should be sleek, bold, new. The grace of a sailing ship, the power of a heavy cruiser. The G does not have that.
Are you confusing star Trek with star trek online?
@@marksouthwell4490No, why?
I'm surprised they didn't go with a rechristening to the Picard. They could have then continued the series without Patrick Stewart.
Apparently that was considered.
Original voyager looks more advanced than the Titan.
I loved season 3! Not in love with the idea of the Titan being renamed. Not sure how it can be a flag ship. I also think the Titan earned its place.
It's fine, I guess. If it was just the USS Titan (not Riker's Titan, obviously) I wouldn't have minded as much, but this was the USS Titan-A, it was already part of an established legacy.
Agree with you about the titan. But respectfully unless they tell me it's the flagship then I can neither assume or dismiss the idea. But if it was for cannon fact the flagship then for me the idea that starfleet wants to get back to exploration and the neo constitution class represents that. To me anyways lol
@@greyphantom1000 the enterprise is always the flagship. It’s an honorary title.
@@darthsensei3838 saaviks titan was listed as the flagship too, I just think the notion of the enterprise will always be the flagship no matter what is something that fans have decided and not the writers of the show. Im just saying I don't believe there is a hard rule set in trek it HAS to be... So why assume it is or isn't until they tell us
Flagship or not, anyone who’s ever been in a navy is superstitious and a ship that gets renamed was in need of a change because it’s jinxed. Given how the previous Titan ended I’d lay money down that Utopia Planetia is already drawing up the H.
2:15 "It's either a hulk of metal, or decommissioned!" Ah yes, the best way to honor the name Enterprise, by having the -F either blown up off-screen or decommissioned off-screen. Just -F'n brilliant, producers. *slow clap*
They were lucky they got it in. Its a contest design from a soulless cashgrab mmo.
Enterprise F got exactly what deserved.
@@LgiovanniF Please stop. It's okay to not like STO, but CBS did sign off on the -F, which still looks a lot more advanced than the -G ever will. Plus, they put such a big emphasis on name, so is the name Titan not good enough? Maybe USS Picard instead? How about the USS Shaw? But no, let the shoehorning of the producer's Enterprise-G.
Because we "care about the importance of names".
Also, that "Souless cashgrab mmo" helped work on the show by providing additional ships for S2 and S3.
@@salenstormwing yeah they signed off because theres too much demand for fanservice then complaining theres too much fan service and not enough. And its Picard... the literal reason Star Trek is still a thing. Does every single officer who died get their own ship name. I liked Shaw but he was one among how many who died in the borg take over... maybe the ensign helming the Excelsior, the Vulcan officer Vadic killed? The Enterprise crew saved the day in their own show and lived to tell about it. The dedication and renaming is an honour. Making the titan part of a lineage that has the most famed history in the federation. You are acting like the Ships feelings are hurt... but disregarding the crews feelings that they now operate the most famous named ship in the fleet.
Its contrarian hipster edgelord fake anime fanboy crap.
@@LgiovanniF Ah yes... the "Contrarian hipster edgelord fake anime fanboy crap" that Trekyards agrees with me on. The rename was unnecessary, and the only one being edgelord contrarian around here is you because you don't like Star Trek Online. If you don't like it, that's fine. But you're treating the -F like this because you feel slighted because you don't like an MMO.
Please, stop. It's okay.
@@salenstormwing trekyards is what the be all and end all
One million people saying 2 + 2 = 5 are still wrong.
Yep hated that they renamed the Titan-A as it destroys its legacy. The lower registry number is missing as it was present on the Titan-A, those 8 spotlights are the markers. See S03E02 when the Titan breaks the tractor beam.
The G should have been the Ross Class, which is an update of the Galaxy Class.
Agreed.
Or a new cruiser.
@@gamerfan8445 Like the Excalibur Class Battlecruiser?
@@SeansModelBuilds something like that. Yes
I’m not a big fan off the Ross Class secondary hull, mainly the round deflector, I think if they’d softened into a bit more of an oval not necessarily to the point of the Galaxy though.
I can’t speak for anyone else’s opinion or motivations, but I’ll address a few points; the titan is not brand new tech, at least not all of it. We know that there was a significant amount of cannibalisation of the old Luna-class titan and Shaw used his old engineering knowledge to open the grills on the nacelles, implying it’s older tech.
In terms of the titan being a ‘mid-level’ cruiser and why that’s inferior to the odyssey class or something similar, I think it’s a comparison with a contemporary navy and job roles; the larger, newer vessels, like the odyssey class are used to push the boundaries of federation space, to explore, to host diplomatic events, they’re used as command ships…etc., where as the smaller ‘mid-level’ ships are used for support roles, patrol duties, ferrying high ranking officers and dignitaries around…etc.
For example, at one stage the excelsior class was the pinnacle of Starfleet tech and there was an excelsior class enterprise B as the flagship, but by the time of TNG, the Galaxy class was the pinnacle of tech, the flagship was a galaxy class and the excelsiors had been relegated to supporting roles.
Another example would be that the titan is more like the 25th century equivalent California class from lower decks, in terms of tech and mission profile. It’s not the 25th equivalent of the constitution, excelsior, ambassador, Galaxy or sovereign, in terms of mission profile. That’s what the odyssey class is.
I think, to use a contemporary analogy, a carrier strike group is commanded by an admiral from the flagship, that is always the aircraft carrier. Everything else is in support roles, whether that be defence, logistics…etc.
Perhaps it is just personal perspective, but I really don’t think the enterprise or any flagship, if it’s not the enterprise, should be anything less than the best Starfleet has at that point. That’s not the titan/G.
I really hope that the shakedown cruise that new Enterprise-G is being done to test new upgrades that have been installed in the year since Frontier day. I think they should have done more to the ship then just scraped off the old name and registry number and paint the new ones on.
I really dislike that they made a new Enterprise. First, we only had the Oddy for one scene and it was active for only like 10 or 20 years. Second, Second, we only have a hundred years to go from the G to the J, only three ships away. We need to go from something tiny of the G to the JJ sized behemoth of the J. I'd like to see some progression. And, dang it, I would have liked to see more of the Oddy.
Agreed, the G shouldn't have been introduced until 2430s or so.
They only way I can slightly justify it is if the ship that was being built as the Enterprise G was destroyed and they really wanted an Enterprise immediately.
The problem with that is, that the ship yards wasn’t destroyed from the attack.
Maybe it was started at Utopia Planitia, but was delayed after the Romulan evacuation ships were started. In that case, whatever had been completed would have been destroyed in the Synth attack.
@@augiegirl1 but that bean a while since it happened.
@@gamerfan8445 Yes, it was 17 years before, but restarting the G likely would have been pushed to the back burner, considering how many other ships needed to be rebuilt.
@@kwlkid85 The Star Trek: Picard Logs had it stated that the Enterprise-F’s critical systems were severely compromised during the Monfette Gambit, a rescue effort for Raillian refugees on Fenton IV. Therefore, the Enterprise was scheduled to be decommissioned early.
I agree that it felt like they disrepected everything the titan did that season by renaming it. I mean they had the model for the new Stargazer, either have 7 and jack on that or a new Enterprise based on that if they can't afford a whole new ship design.
Yes, the Stargazer (Sagan class) was my third favorite option for the Enterprise G.
Oh, the Endurance would have been awesome! I do agree with the captain. I am also extremely happy for Bill Krause, as well as Adam Ihle - Tom Morrone, Sean Torangeau. They have been gifted a true experience here. Proud!
The Titan got done soooo dirty. They spent the whole season struggling against the forces threatening the Federation, then the Ent-D swoops in for a bit at the end and steals the Titan's name? Terrible.
Still think this was a slap in the face to the Enterprise lineage in general and to the Titan-A in particular.
My only hope is they CORRECT the mistake, bring a proper ship for the Ent-G and restore the Titan- and maybe we find out it was all a meta-joke from Lower Decks S01E10:
Boimler- It's the Titan!
Pakled Captain- Oh no, it's another Enterprise!
But let Captain Nine be the captain of the Titan-A, the ship that actually ran the mission for the season, and give the Enterprise-G name to a ship of the line (that can be a proper flagship).
Well, they wouldn't want to appear like they've corrected a mistake, and this error cannot be corrected without looking like it was a mistake in the first place, so...
I'd rather they hadn't renamed the Titan the Enterprise G, I strongly believe it's bad luck. I hope if Star Trek Legacy gets the green light that this is proven to be only a temporary arrangement until a new "more appropriate" starship is available.
Still trying to figure out how Starfleet is going through one letter (D-G) each decade for 40 years, then only 3 (H-J) over 200 years. I guess they just start building them sturdier? ...or they get in a lot less trouble? It's a mystery.
Or there will be times when there's no Enterprise in service.
When the Enterprise A was introduced at the end of Star Trek IV, it was not the most advanced ship design. The Excelsior class had already existed since Star Trek III. They chose to rechristen the older Constitution-refit class USS Yorktown to become the Enterprise A, instead of giving the name to a more modern Excelsior class design. So, there is precedent for the Enterprise G not getting a bigger, more modern starship class design.
That was just for Kirk and crew, Enterprise B was in fact an Excelsior Class ship.
You missed the reason why the Yorktown was renamed Enterprise though... it was because of the crew being assigned to her. THEY had an emotional attachment (and us fans also as a result) to the name "Enterprise". Which is why that renaming made sense. Who aboard the Titan (now renamed) has any emotional connection to the name "Enterprise" that would justify renaming the Titan? The writers did not bother to think this out very well IMHO. 😕
@@zyndeco6659 I am aware of the fact that the Enterprise B was an Excelsior class. I am just saying that not all Enterprises are the top of the line ship model of its time. It may have been for the benefit of Kirk and his crew that the Yorktown got rechristened as the Enteprise A, but it is still a precedent.
@@michaelshrader5139 I understand what you are saying Michael in terms of the reasoning. I am just saying that, regardless of the reasoning, the rechristening of the Yorktown in Star Trek IV still sets a precedent, like it or not, that not all ships named Enterprise have to be the biggest or most advanced class of ship for its time.
@@junkotamiya I'm sorry, but every new state of the art vessel had an Enterprise version. Excelsior was "the great experiment, ready for trial runs" when perfected, Enterprise B was commissioned.
Titan should have stayed the Titan. We should have seen the E retired on Frontier Day and the F introduced. (Or the D refitted and returned to the fleet with Riker in command)
EXACTLY
I agree 100%
Oh, I got the one and only solution why earth space dock is repaired so quickly: The reactivated Scotty from his retirement in the Norpin colony. He is just 104 years old if you do not count the 75 years in the transporter buffer.
We had an Enterprise WASTED !
HATE the fact that the G isn’t top of the line, but far more egregious is the fact that Titan was one of the few other legacy registrations in Starfleet, and they honor one legacy (Enterprise) by dishonoring another. Had it been a non-legacy ship I could accept it, but this was just wrong
I think the Ross class would have been a great omage to picard and crew
The problem with the Ross class is it's very easily mistaken for another ship at a glance
The problem with the G is not only does it look technologically inferior to the G it looks so old being based on a Motion Picture era look that the B.C & D look newer than it too.
Besides the most exciting Enterprise this week in the Transparent Enterprise J in my view.
And a little repaint of the D bridge and you have yourself a G (ross) bridge. Would have been cooler I think
@@90lancaster _"The problem with the Ross class is it's very easily mistaken for another ship at a glance"_ - Indeed, but that would have been the main point. In honor of the Enterprise D its direct predecessor, which saved Starfleet and the Federation by extension - again. Combined with the latest tech onboard the Ross (ex. dual warp cores) I cannot think of a better ship class candidate for the G bar none. It would have made so much sense for numerous reasons (homage, armament, mission capabilities, imposing size, latest tech, aesthetics, etc.)
I agree this show was great I loved picard season 3 but 3 things i would of changed, i wouldn't have killed off shaw would of kept the neo-consitition class starship the titan A and just gave captain seven the enterprise F.
I agree with the first two but would have given Seven another major ship, something like a Sagan class. I don't see Seven as captain of an enormous capital ship like the Odyssey class F. I don't see her as a flagship captain at all, not so soon following a promotion to captain even if she's capable.
Pure hubris by the showrunners. Unnecessary and unearned. A slap in the face to both Enterprise and Titan legacies.
It would have made more sense to have a new Picard class named Enterprise. It could have symbolized a return to exploring.
Except Picard is a diplomat first.
@@LgiovanniF forced to be a diplomat. He was an archeologist and explorer first.
@@Mellowcanuck33 from redemption on he was more a diplomat and philosopher. His archaeology complimented his style as a man who saw the big picture. Definitley a warrior. But to me his talents lay in diplomatic missions.
I feel the dirty was done with the Enterprise-F by giving it to us only to say they were taking it away. I really hate that they did that because I love the Odyssey-class. I do wish that the Enterprise-G was a new ship and the Titan really should have stayed as the Titan.
The Odyssey class was definitely done wrong. Should have been introduced at the end as a new class brought about from the near destruction of the fleet.
Assuming the comparison specs are correct, it appears that the Enterprise G is almost the same size of the "E" in terms of interior volume. It's all a matter of layout in the same vein that the Miranda Class actually had more space than the Constitution refit. The Constitution III may have fewer decks than the Sovereign but it really doesn't appear to be that much smaller in girth and mass.
Yes, it doesn't appear intended to be that much smaller than a Sovereign. It's just that the Neo-Constitution seems an underwhelming class in both combat performance (battle with the Shrike) and appearance (anachronistic). The Duderstadt class by comparison is so much nicer. If they wanted to use a ship of this size they could have renamed a Duderstadt class ship instead. I would have been much more thrilled about a new series with this class as the hero ship.
@@jamesaron1967 I agree a new class would have been far more interesting. Obviously the rechristening was done for budgetary reasons but it seems like the producers could have at least added a few visible upgrades to the Neo-Constitution (modified engines, different hull plating, etc) to the 3D model to make the ship seem new without breaking the bank. Kinda like how they modified the Excelsior to make the Enterprise B. They could still utilize the Titan sets.
@@cornerofthemoon Honestly, I'm not convinced it was solely out of budgetary constraints. If the only alternative was to create a brand new capital ship model then yes, I'd agree budgetary concerns were the main reason.
However, they had a plethora of superior class models already on the shelf. You mentioned the Excelsior II, but there's also the Ross, Sagan and even the Inquiry classes. If a mid-range vessel was preferred there's the all new and in my view beautiful Duderstadt class. These are already rendered and paid for models.
Some people believe there was a personal reason Matalas rechristened the Titan-A to the E-G. I'm starting to think they may be correct.
The Enterprise was not the flagship in Wrath of Khan….it is a training vessel…the Shangrila are taking over, and the Excelsior is about to be the top dog
That's because it was an old ship and they had newer, more capable ones available. This is a downgrade from the F, in quite a substantial way. The F survived the battle from what I could tell, so why it wasn't fixed up and kept the name I don't know, or a new, better class to take it's place (it was supposed to be decommissioned, implying they had a new one ready or almost ready). This just dumps on the legacy of the Titan and isn't really befitting of the name Enterprise either. The logical name would be USS Picard, given everything leading up to that point including the dialogue directly before its unveiling.
@@TalesOfWar the Original Enterprise was not a flagship until her refit in 2272
The first time I ever heard the word "flagship" in association with the Enterprise was at the start of TNG. I don't ever recall hearing it before in TOS or during the movies. Before TNG, Enterprise was a name handed down to ships that built a legacy and commanded the respect with their voyages and eventually earned the position of flagship with the launch of the D in 2363. I can only imagine even after the disastrous launch of B it managed to come back from it. I reckon that Klingons would have felt fear believing that the spirit, strength and essence of James T. Kirk was absorbed into that ships hull.
The enterprise as permanent flagship is just the non canon claim which makes my head scratch why they insist on it. The A became the flagship (aka there was no mandate that this ship name always be the flagship), the B and C are never mentioned to be flagships in canon.
The weirdness continues with other ships being explicitly stated to be flagships because they have admirals on board for some fleet or task force which the D and E never had which makes the usage of the term pretty nonsensical.
Imo one can take hero ship worship too far. It is entirely fine for a ship name to be used with preference for the premium ship classes. But this flagship term may have made sense for the D as some diplomatic token, but fleets do not think so simple minded. There is tradition in keeping a name in circulation (still there were decade big gaps between the Enterprise versions so even that apparently was not a thing so why would some insistence Enterprise being a flagship be a thing?!), but you assign flagship status for some purpose to a ship best suited to it.
The Titan should have stayed the Titan. As for the Enterprise, if the all ready decommissioning it, it seems the all ready building or had the next Enterprise built. They did not in to way it was being decommissioned.
I think you are right it was the cheapest option available. No money for a different bridge to do the warp out scene with a different ship. The Titan-A should have continued on as is.
They really didn't need to mention the G at all because they never said what happened to the F.
If it was being decommissioned due to major system damage how is it flying around for Frontier Day?
If Geordi could bring back the D to its former glory.... and the E continued after having it saucer section caved in.... The F should have been fixable....
I 100% agree with you guys! Season 3 of Picard was spectacular, but this scene had my jaw on the ground (and not in a good way) I was utterly disappointed! This is no flagship! This is no ENTERPRISE! They should have kept it “ the TITAN” ….
But Titan had a legacy...
That's why there was a Titan A
When I was in the Navy in the 1980's the Flagship of the Navy was the USS Constellation (CV=64). That meant that she had Red, White and Blue neon lights that lit up her number on the island.
That was about it.
There were 6 newer carriers in service at the time with 4 of them being Nuclear powered and the last few, much newer.
It was an honor thing. They didn't have the right to just show up to another battle group and take command out of the blue.
I even thought that it was funny in Next Gen when they went to earth somewhat unannounced and Star Fleet was like, (What can we do for you) (It is always a pleasure for us to see the fleet flag ship).
It isn't always like Trafalgar with Nelson on HMS Victory.
The Constellation wasn't really a flagship. "America's Flagship" was just a nickname that Regan gave it on August 20, 1981 right before the ship began it's13th deployment in October of that year. The US Navy doesn't designate symbolic flagships, and the closest thing to such a symbolic flagship would probably be the USS Constitution. By actual definition a flagship carries command staff and this flies their "flag." The US Navy does have two of those (USS Mount Whitney and USS Blue Ridge), but they're practical, not symbolizing greatness, as the Enterprise was supposed to do. The Enterprise F had an admiral in command, so it was probably the flagship both practically and symbolically. The HMS Victory was also that during its time.
@@memfan7417 WOW. Were you in the Navy in the 1980s?. And did you read what I wrote.
I said that it was more of a title than a quote un quote real thing, and that is how it feels in Star Trek even though it is most likely people who write the story that don't know Jack about the military.
And as far as Regan and the Constellation. The Carrier was 24 years old when he was President. So no he didn't proclaim it as the Flagship. I was on Ranger, Kitty Hawk and Enterprise and they were all 18 to 28 years old in 1987.
And yes the Command ships now are more in a sense Flag Ships, but each Carrier/Battleship (then), and or LHA in their respective Battle Groups are the Flagships of their groups, as they carry the Admiral of those task group forces.
But yea, The Constellation was the only Carrier back then that had the privlidge of having the title of America's Flagship, and that's all it was. A tittle. When she was deployed she was no different than the other carriers in the Navy.
@@stltrekmodels.4157 Wasn't intending to offend, and that what it looks like I did based on the "Were you in the Navy in the 1980s?" comment. My truly sincere apologies if I did. I was largely agreeing with you, and just trying to highlight that the US does not even use the model of officially designated ceremonial flagship title that the Enterprise has carried since at least the movies. Many other countries do use such a title for their top vessel. For example, in the UK, HMS Victory is the permanent ceremonial flagship, but the UK navy also designates an official "fleet flagship," which is usually fleet's most advanced and prestigious active vessel. In the UK, it's currently HMS Queen Elizabeth. It usually doesn't carry flag officers or have command functions, but It holds the official designation as "fleet flagship." The Enterprise has been analogous to this within Starfleet since at least the movies.
Btw, I misspoke in my earlier comment saying that Regan gave the nickname "America's Flagship" at the commissioning. It was actually at the refit ceremony in 1981, so I edited my comment accordingly.
And I completely agree that the writers never seem to know jack about the military, lol. They don't get time in grade, and they seem oblivious to the fact that there are three grades between captain and full admiral. Everyone except Geordi seems to just jump from captain to full admiral!
I'm sure in universe they will build a new titan to replace this one
Christopher Monfette said that it's supposed to represent a promotion for the ship. That's fine, and all, but I don't see how the ship that was originally the _Titan_ is going to be impressive enough to take over as the flagship when it's not even as impressive as the previous class, or another one they happen to have lying around (the _Ross_ class).
I have similar sentiment about size, the Titan having earned it's keep.. But I'm just glad good Star Trek is being made. I love Strange New Worlds and am excited for the Seven of Mine show, she's great. I'm sure we will all end up loving the G.
There was a wrecked Odyssey class just as the D and the Titan flew side by side, it could possibly have been the F
I thought I saw at least two other Odyssey class vessels in the fleet in the center of some of the formations.
@@jamesaron1967 I think so as well mate
Head canon on the Enterprise-G:
There is a loophole in one of the treaties the Federation signed banning their use of cloaking devices, that exempts ships named Enterprise from the treaty when using cloaking devices manufactured by someone else as long as the device is removed by some milestone. It was included in the treaty to avoid problems from the TOS episode where they stole the Romulan cloaking device. However, the wording was non-specific enough to cover the Titan-A's use of the cloaking device from the Bounty as long as the Titan-A is rechristened Enterprise. Normally, the Federation wouldn't bother with the loophole, but with the fleet heavily damaged and there having been recent issues with both Romulans and Changelings, the Federation goes ahead and renames the Titan-A to Enterprise just o be safe.
It would have been better to have just shown the scene till just before the ship and name reveal and then cut it off and leave us hanging. Then they could have used the time to figure out exactly what they plan to do. With the Titan-A is now the Enterprise G reveal they are locked into that for the next show. How cool could it have been instead they show a Constellation Refit named Picard. Or show an updated Galaxy Class design named the Enterprise G. Or at least have Jack say something like "The paint job is only temporary they are about to start on major upgrades to get her up to the level of being a Flagship." Like the Commander said this feels so cheap and it just shows super higher ups don't want to spend anymore money on Star Trek.
Renaming it is an insult to both legacies. Make a new ship with a new name. Make a new legacy.
Call it Flagship1.
i guess we are stuck with ships that look 150 years too old now
Sao Paulo to Defiant was a good rename, it clearly made sense in-fiction. This enterprise... ok, Picard obviously has attachment to the name, both for the D and the (I feel, uncredited, given he was captain almost as long on the it as the D) E. And he won't even serve on it.
In a way it feels like the cliché time at the end of a movie when the protagonist can have what they sought for the entire time, and instead decide to stay with what they learned to love trough the adventure. And this time instead "Titan" is just uncerimoniously thrown away.
I can't shake the feeling of it being cheap fanservice.
I'm not sure I blame the fans for this though... it was poorly thought out writing IMHO. Nobody on board the Titan had or has any emotional attachment to the name "Enterprise" so why rename an already well named ship? It just, makes no sense to me at all. 😕
@@michaelshrader5139 I'm not blaming the fans, I mean that it seems clear it's for them. A callback to TNG, to the Enterprise D specifically. And on this, even the reunion scene with the ship, while I have no problem with i,t it might be a bit odd in-universe considering D lasted for 8 years and Picard was also captain of the E for 10 years. Imagine the equivalent of 10 seasons of TNG on a new ship. The D was where the crew met, and it was their first Enterprise, but I would expect something somewhat closer to meeting the Stargazer again, not 1:1 to what the D is to the fans, to us it is "the" Picard Enterprise.
And yeah, save for pure prestige of the name, the G crew doesn't have that much reason to be attached to the "Enterprise". Yes, some had parents on the D and E, but it still feels odd to abandon THEIR identity for it.
I love the ship. I love the look of it. It shouldn't be called a Neo-Constitution Class. It doesn't look like a Constitution Class. It's based on the Shangri-La Class. It should also NOT be the Enterprise. The whole thing about renaming a ship being bad luck is a sea ship thing. The Enterprise herself has been a renamed ship. The Enterprise-A was renamed from Ti-Ho or Yorktown, depending on what's your source. The Sao Palo was renamed Defiant in DS9 after the original Defiant was destroyed. But I feel that the Titan-A earned her name. Riker's Titan has established it's own legacy that should be respected. The Titan was built from components from Riker's Titan. It should have kept it's name and a newer, bigger and better ship should have been selected to become the Enterprise-G.
Agreed I feel the same way!
I Really like the design (except for maybe some of the nacelle details and the front of the secondary hull), I just don’t like the lore behind it. I think it should be a Shangri-la II class instead.
Turning the Titan into the new Enterprise was a HUGE disappointment. Considering how many ships in the fleet had been destroyed during the attack on the Starbase why not take the Enterprise D and perform a massive yearlong refit into a heavy battlecruiser / long range explorer?
That's essentially what the Ross class is. A massive upgrade to the Galaxy class. The D should stay in the museum because it's a revered vessel with tons of history and service to the Federation. What they should have done is rename an existing Ross class ship in honor of the D. It is both fitting of a flagship and looks a lot like a Galaxy.
This just doesn't feel right as the Enterprise. The Titan is wonderful in it's own right. I feel like the Enterprise G should have been an updated Odyssey class ship or some other new design.
I do love the design of the Titan, I agree with you guys on Bill Krause designing an awesome ship.
You’d think that the flagship of the fleet would have the newest and best technology. Captain Shaw said that the nacelles were the oldest part of the ship, twenty years old.
A rebuilt Enterprise-F refit would had been awesome.But then again,with the Odyssey class being a STO design,would the show runners have to pay royalities for using the Odyssey design?Maybe renaming the Titan was a cost cutting measure just in case ST-Legacy becomes a new series.
I'm pretty sure CBS/Paramount own all the IP.
What people miss is it makes sense for it to be the titan because the first ship we saw was kirks constitution class so it brings it back full circle with the Enterprise becoming a constitution class 😊
I think the issue stems from using the Titan A in the first place. If it had just been some randomn ship that earned it's place, that would feel more impactful, rather than going from one legend to another, when both should be allowed to exist at the same time.
I was also not happy that the Titan was decommisisioned. As you said, she earned her stripes. I get WHY they did it from a marketing and "hype" perspective. I mean, I fell in LOVE with the Titan this season. Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE Enterprise fan. Been watching since TOS days in the late 60's (yes, I'm that old,) but was hoping Legacy would star the Titan with the occasional guess appearance of the D. That will probably happen anyway, but it will be odd having an Enterprise D and G sharing the same screen.
That ain't no enterprise.
The Titan earned its own lineage, surely?
Ship size using US Navy as comparison fits since Command ships are small.
During WW2, battleships and carriers were primary targets because that's usually where the leadership is located.
The Defiant led the Dominion task force including Galaxy classes.
Wolf 359, Admiral's ship was implied to be the Melbourne. An Excelsior class ship...
Small and unnoticed is an advantage.
8:37 - i would say Shaw was overseeing the refit for part of that time, as well as her launch. I'm wondering if she was originally going to be for Riker but his personal issues got in the way and then he passed, and then Starfleet offered Shaw the captain's chair due to both his refitting the ship (knowing each inch of her like Decker in TMP) as well as maybe he WAS going to be the new First Officer (probably deleted the jazz out of resentment and the disorder it's owner had caused in passing on the Titan A?). ive also read somewhere that there will be a Titan B?
I have mixed feelings, while I love that it is a Constitution Class III, the third Connie to bear the name.(1701 Connie, 1701-A Connie II 1701-G Connie III) And that Seven got the command, I like you feel that the Titan A earned her stripes. AND they could have got made this work with just a little dialog. At the point where Picard says" Ah, the Titan" Jack's rebuttal could have easily been in this vein. . . " Not quite, she is over there getting a short refit ( points to the left), this ship has just been newly commissioned and is being christened in honor of you and your crew."
"Constitution III" class is just stupid though. How is it any more of a Connie than any other saucer/engineering/nacelles on swept pylons design? It's literally a made over Shangri-La class. The 1701-E is more of a "Constitution" design than this. And then they rename it Enterprise. Absurd.
@@skepticalbadger Well, to be frank about it, its not always about the look. Why is the B not a Connie, well thats because the first ship of the line was the USS Excelcior the C hailed from the USS Ambassador . The D of course came from the USS Galaxy, the first ship of the line for the E was the USS Sovereign . And so on, just the same as the USS Enterprise CV-6 is a Yorktown class, the first ship of that line of course is the USS Yorktown CV-5 . The CVN-65 is Enterprise class and the only ship of her line, the CVN-80 will be of the Gerald Ford class. This also indicates that the USS Titan A/Enterprise G's classes first ship of the line was named USS Constitution. Some have argued that the refit 1701/1701-A is a whole new class, "Enterprise" class if you will, but it is also argued that since the refit was done on the original space frame with modifications, it still classifies as a Connie, hence Connie II.
As far as the renaming of the Titan A, I agree with that being absurd. Titan A earned her stripes. If you note in my original statement, a simple line of dialogue could have changed that.
@@erichelvie8524 I know this is 6 months later, but wow I really like all the detail you went into, really nice read! And I am really happy that it’s a constitution class again!
However, though you said it’s not always about the design (and I agree), I think I’d also have to agree that it feels much more like a Shangri-la II class than a constitution III class.
And if it’s called the constitution III class because the first ship was named the uss Constitution, why did they make it look like a shangri-la instead of a constitution class?
I like how the ship looks, just not a huge fan of the lore surrounding it tbh.
If they were trying to save money, they should have rechristened the Enterprise-D. Or used the Ross Class. This is just lazy in my opinion
Naming the Titian the G is stupid, as is their contempt for the F which is a MUCH better design
I was hoping the shuttle would overfly the Titan and reveal a Excelsior II class or a Ross Class as the Enterprise - G
I suppose the A wasn't the most advanced of its time. I'm not sure it was ever clear whether the C was the most advanced of its time either. But still. They were at least above average technology. The G isn't even that...
I agree 100% It's a great ship but it feels weird as the Enterprise for all the reasons you mention.
The emotional beat of the rechristening worked in the episode really worked. Even though I didn't love the idea of the Titan being the new Enterprise.
I don't think it was a budget thing though. I saw an interview where Terry said he thought of the whole season as basically the 'origin story' of their new enterprise
I agree with both of you 100%, usually always do. And I agree with you mostly in this case, part of me thinks one possible reason why they did this is a case of the Titan "A" did so well it deserved to be the next Enterprise because it earned that spot, because her and her crew handle the situation in Enterprise like fashion Maybe. just something that came to mind, although I do agree got an entirely new ship would have been better. And of course as usual you guys are absolutely fantastic and thank you for all you do.
You don't need to change the name of the show if they'd called the ship the USS Picard.
I also feel that the bridge for this class be redesigned
Why would they rename the Titan? Hasn’t the Titan earned its place?
It’s like the USN renaming the USS Nimitz to the USS Enterprise.
It would have been far more satisfying if they had just made the Enterprise G another Neo-Constitution ship.
I also like the idea that the Enterprise G is just another capital ship and not the wizzyest most advanced thing ever to take to the stars.
Scotty: Why in god's name would you want that bucket of bolts!?
Kirk: A Ship is a ship.
Scotty: Whatever you say sir, thy will be done.
Although I am with A LOT of other people I really wish we had gotten a brand new ship for the E-G instead of a re-christened Titan-A. I have to agree with Stewart that I half expected it to see it as the "U.S.S. Picard" ...but I partly knew we were going to see a new Enterprise...but yeah this was just real cheap. I also agree with Stewart that they had used the class Stewart mentioned.
Don't get me wrong I loved all of season 3 but yeah...wish we had gotten a completely new ship. Non cannon the E-A was originally named the Yorktown. So it wouldn't take much for Starfleet to have re-christened a ship that was already built and had a name but problems. The Yorktown could have been new and only been in service for the three months before it encountered the Whale Probe and thus created the problems Scotty mentioned.
I mean Scotty said in Star Trek V "I think this new ship was put together by monkeys. Oh she's got a fine engine, but half the doors won't open and guess who's job it is to make it right!?" Which again goes with my theory that the Yorktown was definitely a newly built Constitution Refit but was probably in service for a short time before having that unfortunate encounter with the Whale Probe.
Apparently the E-F had suffered a massive computer problem while it was on its last mission so hence it was slated for early decommission.
Ekhm... in fact there might be more than one flagship in Starfleet.
Remember that Starfleet like modern Navy is devided on Fleets. Each Feet is commanded by Fleet Admiral (5 pips) while each squadron of ships is commanded by Admirals nad Vice Admirals.
Two pips Admirals are in command of Starbases and Commodore is rather and honorary rank for retired Captains or teachers from Starfleet Academy.
So each fleet has own flagship which means that this ship is not only representing specific Fleet and Squadron but also has best officer cadre in entire Fleet.
Regarding size of future ship I think Enterpise - J was alternate timeline ship from universe where Sphere Builders anomaly in Delphic Expanse was not destroyed by Enterpirse NX-01. Since Archer destroyed spheres this timeline was pushed into alternate universe from that moment future was rewriten and Enterpise - J was erased and possibly replaced by other class of ship evolved from Enterpise-G.
Yes, the Enterprise J was from another timeline which is no longer valid, assuming history in the Archer series timeline are causal to events in Picard (don't want to get into the whole parallel timelines bit). What I am certain of is that Starfleet has only one vessel designated as 'the' flagship of the fleet. What is meant by that is the ship that represents and is symbolic of the Federation. It's not only a command vessel in times of war.
I wish they kept the Titan since it was the titan that was involved in the events of picard.
This was really one of the rare stumbles of the season. Just really unnecessary and undeserved.
It was the biggest let down of the many small let downs in S3, it just doesnt make sense to make her the G, it would have been great to keep it the titan and give it her own show with seven as captain. Enterprise was always top of the line when it was put in service
My only issue with this ship being the G is that it subtracts from the Titan-A. I think that we had a problem with the Enterprise lineup, that being the fact that every new ship is significantly larger. As much as I love the D and E, there was a lot of crazy space on those ships, and the J is just ridiculous. For that, I like that they went with a smaller ship. And being smaller isn't a problem, the Defiant was a beast of a ship. The only argument for having a larger ship would be range, but Voyager arguably proved that doesn't really matter either.
All that said, I would like to see more of the G in a coming series, and I would not have a problem with it getting a refit to help distinguish it from the Titan-A. New nacelles ate the least, maybe new primary and secondary shapes as well, akin to the B being distinguished from the Excelsior, or the TOS Enterprise and the film Enterprise.
As far as it being the flagship, I don't think it's that important that it is. The Enterprise earned it's place because of it's legacy, and maybe after the E and the F another ship has earned it's place to be the flagship at this point. Maybe the Voyager-B. But if we do want the Enterprise-G to remain the flagship, I don't think that's a problem either. Just give it the most advanced tech in Starfleet. Maybe let it keep a cloaking device. There are ways to make it the flagship apart from being the largest ship.
I will say that I was expecting a different ship to be the G in that scened. I thought they were gonna pull a Star Trek IV pull away to reveal the new ship, and when it happened I was at first disappointed, but looking back I really don't mind. I think that if we get some good screen time with this ship being the G it will normalize it a bit and earn everyone's respect. She is a good looking ship, and I think most of us loved it when we first saw it revealed in the trailer. This brings me back to my original point, the only real issue is this takaing away from the Titan legacy.
Additional current flagship possabilities are the USS Titan-B or the USS Picard, either would bring some more justice to this I think.
Should have pulled a double faint and panned over the Titan to a brand new ship for the Enterprise G maybe even a brand new class
I'm tired of smaller, sleeker, supposedly more maneuverable ships. I want to see the biggest, strongest, fastest ship ever built as the hero ship of a series. We haven't gotten that since the Next Generation (three decades ago!). I thought the E was a beautiful design, but it was smaller than the D, so I was excited about the F, but then they just did away with it in one episode (even though it was supposed to be the most technologically advanced ship ever made with slipstream drive, etc). I feel like they took the F that real fans were desperate to see at the center of a series, gave it a single appearance to make it canon, and then dropped it for yet another small ship.
Yeah. The F should have been refit and put back into service. The Titan should have kept its name to honor its legacy. Renaming it Enterprise was fan service taken a step too far. They already had enough fan service in this full season.
I don’t actually like having quite so much fan service; Star Trek is supposed to be about the *new*. Too many fans are looking backwards. While it’s fun to have those call backs, it’s less likely to stand the test of time if everything is about the past. Hopefully ST:Legacy will move us forward. We’ve had too many shows that are retrospective lately (which is not to say it’s all bad; SNW has been fantastic); but it’s time to move forward and develop some new storylines and characters.
P.S., I don’t think it’s all about size though. If technology advances to where more powerful technology can be put into a smaller ship that IS more maneuverable, that makes sense. But you’re probably right that the hero ship (at least if it is an Enterprise) should be a more advanced and larger ship.
On the other hand, there is something to the idea that a smaller, scrappier ship has to face difficult odds because it’s not the biggest and baddest; and a series with a refit Titan would have fit that bill nicely, rather than having a downgraded Enterprise. Yet another reason the Titan should have stayed the Titan and the Enterprise should have been a refit F or a new G. We don’t always have to have Enterprise be the star of the show (I even questioned making the hero ship in Enterprise the Enterprise, although it does kind of start the legacy and explain why the Connie Enterprise is considered the flagship despite being just one of many Connies). I have no problem with ST: Legacy being about the scrappy little ship (the Titan) that could; rather than having to have it be yet another Enterprise when it doesn’t make sense. 🤷🏻♀️
I would have prefered ....THE ENTERPRISE 1701-F...
The Titan just doesn't feel like an Enterprise. Considering that "give em everything we got" equates to 4-5 photons, this ship is far weaker than at least 2 Enterprises older. Moreover it's just too soon. F should have just come into service with the G coming 20 or 30 years later.
Yeah, 4-5 torpedoes and no phasers...
Remember it's like galactic common courtesy to have your ship upright when you face your enemy.😂
The Titaprise could do away with the impulse engines attached to the saucer.
Honestly I liked the idea of star fleet going back to a simplified design in order to streamline production , but I have to agree I was perfectly happy to see the Titan as a future hero ship.
I think the mistake was Calling it the Titan in the first place, it should have been a new ship with a registry and a project code name or an expected name, why not Constitution, Mostly With new "old" crew from another vessel on extended shakedown, because it was waiting for formal naming ceremony, deferred until the anniversary celebrations.
I created my own Enterprise-G on fandom, it's a Ross-class. Riker would even comment that "She looks like Enterprises D and E rolled into one."
R.I.P. Titan-A. She went before her time. Loved the Big E since the sixties yet I am so sad for the Titan legacy. So, as far as I can remember the Enterprise-D was the first Enterprise (in cannon) to be referred to as "the flagship of the Federation and Star Fleet".
The show was doing so well until this point. The enterprise is a ship that has always sent the standards of the best ship with the most update to tech. This is not only a tiny ship but nowhere near as powerful as even the enterprise E. I reckon the D come blow this out of the sky. Very disappointing. Wanted to be blown away by a brand new ship not the easy option
It's an exploration ship not space invaders
@Mark Southwell didn't say it had to be but based on the history of the progression of the enterprise through the ages of star trek it has increased in size, power and technology so why change that not. Its the flag ship its meant to stand out from the rest no?
@@marksouthwell4490 thisnis what you find under the term flagship. A flagship is a vessel used by the commanding officer of a group of naval ships, characteristically a flag officer entitled by custom to fly a distinguishing flag. Used more loosely, it is the lead ship in a fleet of vessels, typically the first, largest, fastest, most heavily armed
i really would have prefered the Titan stay the Titan A TBH im not overall happy with them turning the titan into the Enterprise G now granted Star trek has done this before with the san paulo to the defiant but still i would have prefered SEVEN be the captain of the Titan A rather than the enterprise G
I agree with them that it shouldn't be the next Enterprise, name change to Picard if any name change needed. The reveal almost broke the episode for me, was that "off/wrong." Agree with the points of size/tech progression and the tendency of the Enterprise being among the newest, best, most sophisticated ships of the fleet. Ditto being the tendency of it being the flagship (if not presumed regularity); this is no flagship. It is what it is unfortunately, have to suck it up and accept it. If they do make Legacy (or whatever it might/could be called), holding out slight hope that it'll be a few years later and the ship has finally been uprated to match the name. Thinking this: After the events of episode the, perhaps it took all of Starfleet's resources to rebuild spacedock (or more and uprate an existing one in another star system) and repair damage to all the ships involved in the battle. Perhaps if there were similar attacks/events as other Starfleet installations, like the shipyard that the originally planned new Enterprise was being built at, it was also damaged or destroyed. No new ship ready for the name now, but since we're rebuilding (again) we want an Enterprise for morale and face saving reasons. Yea, it's not ready for the name, but now that we've fixed everything that was damaged/destroyed, now let's get the G back to dock and upgrade refit it to be technologically worthy of the name...
Think they could’ve done the Enterprise G as the Yorktown class from STO
A super-Odyssey?
@@jamesaron1967 it’s a variant subclass of the odyssey
If you think it could have had an internal refit such as dual warp cores the phaser strips could have been upgraded. Same with shields but I'm reaching here. Plus I was hoping the titan would have had carpet when Jack came aboard.
Hopefully it get destroyed a few days later.
Dumb to change the name. Should have built a new ship and called it the Picard
I would have preferred it if it stayed the Titan because it has more than earned that name, but if they had to rename it then Picard would have fit better. Enterprise doesn't fit at all, it just seems like a huge downgrade for the Enterprise lineup since we always went bigger and longer for the next one. Guess they ran out of budget...
I wasn't happy with this rechristening from Titan - A to Enterprise - G, it seemed lazy. I get that they were struggling for funds after rebuilding the D's bridge set, but they should have made it the Picard, and left the G for the next clean-sheet design.
A big FU to STP season 1 & 2, loved season 3, not sure the Titan should of be renamed. Refit the D.
And also I love the D came back but if the crew were looking for.a ship for the final Borg cube mission.... The Defiant
Think it's stupid to downsize the flagship by 50%. Why not just make the Cerritos the flagship then?
There is no way that this can be the flaship! With Oddysey class ships and then the Inquiry class which are even more powerful...unless we're saying that the flagship is literally just a ceremonial role like the King of England having no actual power.
Only two new Enterprises between it and the J now and 100 to 200 years to scale up to that behemoth.
The Titan absolutely deserves its legacy. I'm not a hater and am okay with the rename too if we must have it. But I'm trying to think of how that name change could be undone gracefully in a future show! How bout this? The Titan in fact gets the "honor" of holding the "Enterprise G" "flagship" name while a new Enterprise is prepared. Then, do you put Seven in a new series on the new Enterprise or on the re-renamed Titan . . . Titan B, with some enhancements. Brand new ship? I'd like to see a new Enterprise more than a refitted Titan-prise. (It's not the most elegant changing of ship names, but 10 seconds of dialog would explain it before moving on!
Unfortunately, if a new series is being considered as an spinoff of Picard, I don't think there will be any significant changes. Meaning, the G will probably still be the ex-Titan-A and Severn will still be the captain of the Enterprise G. Both of which do not make sense but those are the cards we as fans have been dealt with.