We know space stations are stupidly powerful in the star trek universe. DS9 was jerry rigged together into a battle station an it destroy 50 dominion ships by itself. Without any support. That station wouldn't have fall if it had 50 ships supporting it.
IIRC the original SD’s lower “mushroom” (where Hangar 12 was later placed) was the civilian docking area while the main upper mushroom was for StarFleet. This new SD I also believe the surrounding Pods are about the same circumference of the original SD’s upper mushroom.
8:45 That part never made sense to me in the episodes. The ships were able to be taken over pretty quickly but somehow space dock wasn't. I would have thought there would be plenty of under 25yo officers and cadets stationed or just happen to be in space dock. Maybe security on space dock isn't as lax as it was on starships and weapons weren't as accessible to just about everyone. So the assimilated were fighting the unassimilated and were having a tougher time on space dock than on the starships.
I'd like it if they replaced the earth spacedock in STO with this one AND add the star system from Picard S3 and add the fleet museum to STO as permanent fixtures in the game.
the outer mini docks remind me of the DS9 docking ring, so maybe the pods are for civilian ships to dock, repair, crew recreation and cargo transfer while the main section is for starfleet vessels. i kind of prefer the old spacedock with its smoother lines
I was hoping they'd consider doing an old style deep dive on more of the Star Trek Online ships that made it onto Picard Season 3 like the Inquiry Class refits, the Ross Class and the Reliant Class for example. I was also kinda expecting they'd do an overview of the Picard Season 3 starfleet too sometime. But then they have a lot to get through there so maybe they are just spreading it out.
The future is long. There's so much stuff from this one season they can do so I'm sure they'll get around to those smaller things once the big stuff is done.
In my head canon spacedock could have decimated the fleet in minutes if not for borg youth infiltrating command sections resulting in many fire fights on board and also that spacedock was using precision hits to try to disable the fleet and save lives insted of tanking damage onto several ships at a time with a dozen hits a second.
I like to think that the crew, mostly older ones weren't just fighting just to defend earth from the fleet but also fighting their under 25 officers as well simply to keep the station operational. An that account for their low fire rate.
The F would have fit through the old space dock doors. The D is wider than the F and they have about the same number of decks and similar height. But the F is much longer so if it wouldn't have had much room to maneuver once inside. It may have only been able to go straight in and back straight out.
Yeah that was my thought too, I don’t even know if the D would fit through these doors on this new space dock, it’s something like 100m wider in beam than the F.
Sort of feel that this is more a throwback to TOS, than an evolution of the classic Space Dock design. The new pods feel more like K-7 to me, in the same way the new nacelles have the retro feel too. Using the old to create the new.
To me, these blue pods are like the DS9 red generator. So believe these are somekind of shield generators or individual pods connected to the main space dock which would make sense judging how long the dock resisted the attack. Even if it's hard to say, these could be phaser strips because if you look at the battle, some phaser shots from spacedock disable/destroyed some ships in almost one shot (from what we can see)
Somehow old Spacedock *seemed* more colossal, even if the new Spacedock is clearly some three or more times bigger. One would expect they'd need more internal volume though, certainly, so it sure makes sense. Also it's a bit of a callback to old Starfleet TEchnical Manual designs. (And one thing about some of the movies and like SNW is they really had some cool and impressive space stations that make the mushrooms seem a bit bland. It'd be cool to see something spiff about the insides anyway.)
The space station in SNW was brilliantly done. It just never should have been called Starbase 1, if they just called it something different cannon wise it would have work better. May be earth bio depository 1 it would have worked well. The now reason why Sol 1 can't have more than one large space station. It being chosen for negotiations being down to the aliens culture taking looks and scale as something being important. Those bio domes look cool and would impress anyone. EBD1 may be very old, and could defend itself from a single ship, but it is huge in scale and has great recreational facility.
@@DavidKnowles0 Well, I was pretty sure Starbase One was supposed to be pretty central to the founding UFP, anyway. Could well be or have been at Earth. The 'mushrooms' are kind of an institution but it'd be cool to see some more interesting/spectacular stuff, I think it shouldexist. I mean, I even liked that wild station in Abramstrek Beyond, though I'm baffled why they needed to put a dense city the size of Chicago out there, never mind by a dangerous anomaly.
Btw - whoever gave it a mass of 10 million tons and 21 million cubic meters for STO ( had no clue as to mass-volume) given the enterprise D is at lest 16 million cubic meters itself . Without the new additions the older version would be closer to 1.2 billion metric tons and 4 billion cubic meters ( up to at lest 7 billion)
Would be nice if there are a lot of phaser strips that acted like point defense weapons and intercepting the hundreads of torpedoes being shot at it by the hi-jacked fleet.
Looking at that still of the F coming out of the doors, there’s not that much clearance and I wonder if the D would even fit through, it’s a good 100m wider in beam. I guess if all the Galaxy’s are retired it doesn’t matter, seems like all the ships are being built with the saucers elongated forward now, and there there’s always the explanation of another set of bigger doors on the other side.
I hope ...IF Bajor is now part of the Federation that DS9 has been replaced with a Spacedock like this as guardians of the wormhole, DS9 would now be a heritage site in orbit of Bajor recording the history of the occupation and the arrival of the emissary.
I would prefer to see a Bajoran inspired design. So different than this. The backstory can simply be that the construction of the station was a way for starfleet/Federation to help rebuild Bajor skill base after the occupation, so Federation provided the resources, Bajor provided the labor. Rather than just build a station design by starfleet engineers.
I am on half of half regarding the new spacedock design. its like they copy and paste stations from different era and boil them into one. As for the other half is I like new staff for star trek that's about it.
I know its a difference in lighting but in the side by side comparison the old space dock just seems larger and more advance than the new one. The new one has to many sharp angles and to much clutter with the extra pods, looks like something from the JJ verse.
That thing is tough, from a military point of view a fort doesn’t fire away all its amoe at top speed . You guys forget the rules of siege don’t change. Because you can’t beam through shields . So resupply, a photon, torpedoes and quantum’s wouldn’t be possible during battle. So you wouldn’t fire every thing all at once
There's also the very good chance that much of the crew will now be Borg so all weapon stations aren't being manned. I can't imagine how chaotic the fighting inside the station (and the ship inside it as mentioned) would have been.
Yeah, but in my opinion to mighty, to stand that long against all of Starfleet! But, remember DS9, hold of an entire Klingon Fleet. However, what is strange, in DS9 we learn about the numbers of groups of Starfleets, there are not to many ships, for an entire Fleet...? Please forgive me my bad english!
Thing is, Scif Fi writers have a bad habit of messing up scale and putting in dialogue for drama. When we look at the fleet that attacked Spacedock, it was about 200 to 300 ships. And its a number that a fortified space station can actually take. What we see was not the entirety of Starfleet. If so then you'd had no ships on border patrol, no ships to investigate anomalies and going after pirates. It would invite other powers to take out small chunks of Federation space for themselves. Also if this IS the entire fleet, then Starfleet has downsized massively. Operation Return for example had Starfleet using up to 600 ships, and those were from just two fleets ( in fact it would have been up to 800 or 900 if the ninth fleet would have been able to meet the attack fleet ). With the numbers from the Dominion War and how big the Federation is, its save to say that Starfleet has around 10k to 20k ships of various sizes and age. And if the show runners showed that... well space would be more cluttered and messy than the fleet shot in Rise of Skywalker. Its very hard to show massive numbers of ships without overloading the screen. Overall I would say what we saw was the fleet that was tasked with protecting the core worlds of the Federation, basically the core fleet. But to add tension the writers added dialogue of " the entire Starfleet".
I mostly fall into the realms of "Why?" when it comes to the new design. The original is such a great design and just iconic, and it wouldn't have changed the story one bit (The museum could have been anything else)
Because technology has evolved and Starfleet has expanded. There’s no logical reason why Starfleet would use a 200-year-old starbase as the hub for the fleet around the capitol of the Federation.
Spacedock 1) is a pretty blatant rip-off of Bespin's Cloud City; and 2) only exists because Harve Bennett needed a way to contrive a suspenseful "stealing the Enterprise" sequence so there had to be some doors to open, which meant an enclosure (even though there's nothing like this in the previous two movies - pretty obviously they'd be "refitting" the Enterprise inside the spacedock if they had one, otherwise what's it for?). Still, it's canon and it's cool.
In Grade 8 Science class, we had to design a space station, and I drew the Earth space dock from TMP. Maybe the doors are like the Tardis or Marry Poppin's bag?
They remove a lot of detail from the shot by using teal and orange lens filters / it washes out the vibrancy of the colours and lighting unfortunately / I think that’s why it looks worse compared to the old space dock
I really like this new spacedock. Retains the classic design but it's an obvious evolution.
This thing took a beating and dished out some impressive firepower.
Spacedock was throwing out some pretty impressive firepower, given it took out 5 ships in 13 seconds.
I can't imagine how much power their shields kicked out either given how much punishment the thing took.
@@TalesOfWar Technically, Spacedock was using Earth's planetary shield.
We know space stations are stupidly powerful in the star trek universe. DS9 was jerry rigged together into a battle station an it destroy 50 dominion ships by itself. Without any support. That station wouldn't have fall if it had 50 ships supporting it.
IIRC the original SD’s lower “mushroom” (where Hangar 12 was later placed) was the civilian docking area while the main upper mushroom was for StarFleet. This new SD I also believe the surrounding Pods are about the same circumference of the original SD’s upper mushroom.
Incorrect scaling for that to be the case.
8:45 That part never made sense to me in the episodes. The ships were able to be taken over pretty quickly but somehow space dock wasn't. I would have thought there would be plenty of under 25yo officers and cadets stationed or just happen to be in space dock.
Maybe security on space dock isn't as lax as it was on starships and weapons weren't as accessible to just about everyone. So the assimilated were fighting the unassimilated and were having a tougher time on space dock than on the starships.
All I know is that thing was near-on invincible.
I just have always liked the idea that you can see the space station very clearly from Eatth's surface.
Yes, we need a size comparison with old spacedock!
7:06 That's what she said
I'd like it if they replaced the earth spacedock in STO with this one AND add the star system from Picard S3 and add the fleet museum to STO as permanent fixtures in the game.
This station took A LOT of punishment and was up and running a year later.
the outer mini docks remind me of the DS9 docking ring, so maybe the pods are for civilian ships to dock, repair, crew recreation and cargo transfer while the main section is for starfleet vessels.
i kind of prefer the old spacedock with its smoother lines
I was hoping they'd consider doing an old style deep dive on more of the Star Trek Online ships that made it onto Picard Season 3 like the Inquiry Class refits, the Ross Class and the Reliant Class for example.
I was also kinda expecting they'd do an overview of the Picard Season 3 starfleet too sometime. But then they have a lot to get through there so maybe they are just spreading it out.
The future is long. There's so much stuff from this one season they can do so I'm sure they'll get around to those smaller things once the big stuff is done.
I never saw those as antenna. Always skyscrapers in my head.
The only times we saw them really close was in lower decks and they were depicted as Skyscrapers
In my head canon spacedock could have decimated the fleet in minutes if not for borg youth infiltrating command sections resulting in many fire fights on board and also that spacedock was using precision hits to try to disable the fleet and save lives insted of tanking damage onto several ships at a time with a dozen hits a second.
I like to think that the crew, mostly older ones weren't just fighting just to defend earth from the fleet but also fighting their under 25 officers as well simply to keep the station operational. An that account for their low fire rate.
The F would have fit through the old space dock doors. The D is wider than the F and they have about the same number of decks and similar height.
But the F is much longer so if it wouldn't have had much room to maneuver once inside. It may have only been able to go straight in and back straight out.
Yeah that was my thought too, I don’t even know if the D would fit through these doors on this new space dock, it’s something like 100m wider in beam than the F.
Sort of feel that this is more a throwback to TOS, than an evolution of the classic Space Dock design. The new pods feel more like K-7 to me, in the same way the new nacelles have the retro feel too. Using the old to create the new.
To me, these blue pods are like the DS9 red generator. So believe these are somekind of shield generators or individual pods connected to the main space dock which would make sense judging how long the dock resisted the attack. Even if it's hard to say, these could be phaser strips because if you look at the battle, some phaser shots from spacedock disable/destroyed some ships in almost one shot (from what we can see)
To me, it's the ultimate spacedock design.
Somehow old Spacedock *seemed* more colossal, even if the new Spacedock is clearly some three or more times bigger.
One would expect they'd need more internal volume though, certainly, so it sure makes sense. Also it's a bit of a callback to old Starfleet TEchnical Manual designs.
(And one thing about some of the movies and like SNW is they really had some cool and impressive space stations that make the mushrooms seem a bit bland. It'd be cool to see something spiff about the insides anyway.)
The space station in SNW was brilliantly done. It just never should have been called Starbase 1, if they just called it something different cannon wise it would have work better. May be earth bio depository 1 it would have worked well. The now reason why Sol 1 can't have more than one large space station.
It being chosen for negotiations being down to the aliens culture taking looks and scale as something being important. Those bio domes look cool and would impress anyone. EBD1 may be very old, and could defend itself from a single ship, but it is huge in scale and has great recreational facility.
@@DavidKnowles0 Well, I was pretty sure Starbase One was supposed to be pretty central to the founding UFP, anyway. Could well be or have been at Earth. The 'mushrooms' are kind of an institution but it'd be cool to see some more interesting/spectacular stuff, I think it shouldexist. I mean, I even liked that wild station in Abramstrek Beyond, though I'm baffled why they needed to put a dense city the size of Chicago out there, never mind by a dangerous anomaly.
Well have mini spacedocks around the perimeter
Wouldn't have much noise with the doors since the mass won't be grinding on anything cuz mere microgravity weight.
It seems like I saw a lot of deflection from fire on those pods and they probably must be giant field generators to deflect fire from Earth?
Btw - whoever gave it a mass of 10 million tons and 21 million cubic meters for STO ( had no clue as to mass-volume) given the enterprise D is at lest 16 million cubic meters itself . Without the new additions the older version would be closer to 1.2 billion metric tons and 4 billion cubic meters ( up to at lest 7 billion)
Those 'little' phaser strips would be as long as the saucer starbord and port phaser strips of the sovereign class. 😀
Would be nice if there are a lot of phaser strips that acted like point defense weapons and intercepting the hundreads of torpedoes being shot at it by the hi-jacked fleet.
They have containerized shipping that have small cabs like 18 wheelers?
I would really like a model of the federation space dock
Consider that there may be more than one in orbit of earth?
It's like they stuck a couple of Cloud Cities to it.
Looking at that still of the F coming out of the doors, there’s not that much clearance and I wonder if the D would even fit through, it’s a good 100m wider in beam. I guess if all the Galaxy’s are retired it doesn’t matter, seems like all the ships are being built with the saucers elongated forward now, and there there’s always the explanation of another set of bigger doors on the other side.
I hope ...IF Bajor is now part of the Federation that DS9 has been replaced with a Spacedock like this as guardians of the wormhole, DS9 would now be a heritage site in orbit of Bajor recording the history of the occupation and the arrival of the emissary.
Bajor is a federation member planet in the 25th Century if the map in season one is accurate, wherein Bajor was shown inside Federation borders.
I would prefer to see a Bajoran inspired design. So different than this. The backstory can simply be that the construction of the station was a way for starfleet/Federation to help rebuild Bajor skill base after the occupation, so Federation provided the resources, Bajor provided the labor. Rather than just build a station design by starfleet engineers.
@@jamesaron1967 It could still be a independent protectorate and not a formal member.
@@DavidKnowles0 Hopefully, we'll get clarification on Bajor's political status if Legacy is produced. I'd really like to know.
They need to update in on STO
On the question of scale of the new Spacedock. The working scale of the main dome was 12,500ft diameter. If that helps.
Only 3.5km, that seem to small to.
I am on half of half regarding the new spacedock design. its like they copy and paste stations from different era and boil them into one. As for the other half is I like new staff for star trek that's about it.
The new SpaceDock reminds me of Terra Venture from Power Rangers Lost Galaxy! Love the design of both!
I know its a difference in lighting but in the side by side comparison the old space dock just seems larger and more advance than the new one. The new one has to many sharp angles and to much clutter with the extra pods, looks like something from the JJ verse.
Isn’t it called Sol Station
That thing is tough, from a military point of view a fort doesn’t fire away all its amoe at top speed . You guys forget the rules of siege don’t change. Because you can’t beam through shields . So resupply, a photon, torpedoes and quantum’s wouldn’t be possible during battle. So you wouldn’t fire every thing all at once
There's also the very good chance that much of the crew will now be Borg so all weapon stations aren't being manned. I can't imagine how chaotic the fighting inside the station (and the ship inside it as mentioned) would have been.
The probably used 16 space Huey's to transport space dock to it's new post.
A couple of space Chinooks would have done it too.
Concept
What if the earth spacedock's twin holds the key to resetting the entire universe, From the The Umbrella Academy?
Yeah, but in my opinion to mighty, to stand that long against all of Starfleet! But, remember DS9, hold of an entire Klingon Fleet. However, what is strange, in DS9 we learn about the numbers of groups of Starfleets, there are not to many ships, for an entire Fleet...? Please forgive me my bad english!
Thing is, Scif Fi writers have a bad habit of messing up scale and putting in dialogue for drama. When we look at the fleet that attacked Spacedock, it was about 200 to 300 ships. And its a number that a fortified space station can actually take.
What we see was not the entirety of Starfleet. If so then you'd had no ships on border patrol, no ships to investigate anomalies and going after pirates. It would invite other powers to take out small chunks of Federation space for themselves. Also if this IS the entire fleet, then Starfleet has downsized massively. Operation Return for example had Starfleet using up to 600 ships, and those were from just two fleets ( in fact it would have been up to 800 or 900 if the ninth fleet would have been able to meet the attack fleet ).
With the numbers from the Dominion War and how big the Federation is, its save to say that Starfleet has around 10k to 20k ships of various sizes and age. And if the show runners showed that... well space would be more cluttered and messy than the fleet shot in Rise of Skywalker. Its very hard to show massive numbers of ships without overloading the screen.
Overall I would say what we saw was the fleet that was tasked with protecting the core worlds of the Federation, basically the core fleet. But to add tension the writers added dialogue of " the entire Starfleet".
mushroom dock
I thought the new design was awesome, it just looks more impressive now
The old space dock was kool but this is larger by far
SUGGESTION : You said once you had some Movie reviews you never published.
They'd make nice Patreon exclusives I'd suggest.
Nah, we said we may do it but never filmed one
Fireworks in space? What?
I mostly fall into the realms of "Why?" when it comes to the new design. The original is such a great design and just iconic, and it wouldn't have changed the story one bit (The museum could have been anything else)
The Enterprise F wouldn’t have fit in the old space station and so the old station was just too small.
Because technology has evolved and Starfleet has expanded. There’s no logical reason why Starfleet would use a 200-year-old starbase as the hub for the fleet around the capitol of the Federation.
Odyssey class starships like the Enterprise-F are over a kilometer long. They wouldn't fit in the original ESD.
I loved Picard season 3 and was wondering about all this myself but now I'm thinking we all need to grow up and get a life 😂
spacedocks capability was way out of wack
Spacedock 1) is a pretty blatant rip-off of Bespin's Cloud City; and 2) only exists because Harve Bennett needed a way to contrive a suspenseful "stealing the Enterprise" sequence so there had to be some doors to open, which meant an enclosure (even though there's nothing like this in the previous two movies - pretty obviously they'd be "refitting" the Enterprise inside the spacedock if they had one, otherwise what's it for?). Still, it's canon and it's cool.
In Grade 8 Science class, we had to design a space station, and I drew the Earth space dock from TMP.
Maybe the doors are like the Tardis or Marry Poppin's bag?
For me the 4 docks have 2 many spikes. And it feels to squashed
If you think of them as small skyscraper sized things it makes sense. You want windows to keep your squishy organic folk inside happy.
Is it Just me or is there 5 docks in that first Picture?
Mabe they jus remodel it lol that simple looks like a remodel 😆
.........❤❤❤❤❤........
I like the old space station better...
the young one I would like to get to know.
They remove a lot of detail from the shot by using teal and orange lens filters / it washes out the vibrancy of the colours and lighting unfortunately / I think that’s why it looks worse compared to the old space dock
Too spiky.