Ludwig Supraphonic - Triple Flange Hoop vs Die Cast Hoop
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- Опубликовано: 22 дек 2023
- Triple Flange Hoop vs Die Cast Hoop on Ludwig Supraphonic 400 Snare. Can you hear a difference?
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~Jeff Wald~
Masterworks specs and tour video: • Pearl Masterworks tour...
The kit is basically in Pearl Reference Specs except all have at least 2 plies of mahogany on the inside (which is stained red) and adding 4 plies w/ the floor and even more mahogany with the Gong & kicks. The rest of the plies in each are maple except for the snare.
We named the finish Red Bubinga Burst. I had them darken 25% of each drum to the edge. The gong is 40% fade only on the head side b/c its single headed. The only regret is that on the smaller drums you really can’t tell b/c I didn’t think about the rims covering the edges. Oh well, still looks amazing in person.
Snare (Mic’d with Audix i5)
14x5.75". 10 ply, 12.5mm "Regular" - 2 inner Birch, 7 ply Maple in the middle, 1 ply outer Bubinga. It also has the triple snare throw off. This thing looks amazing and lets you choose 3 different 6 strand snares allowing you to mix and match all of them. However, I've been using a 24 strand one from another Pearl snare for years.
Toms (Mic’d with Audix D2)
6x7" Rack Tom - 6 ply, 7.5mm "Regular"; 2 inner Mahogany, 3 ply Maple in the middle, 1 outer Bubinga; Edge is Rounded 45 degree
8x7.25" Rack Tom - 6 ply, 7.5mm "Regular"; 2 inner Mahogany, 3 ply Maple in the middle, 1 outer Bubinga; Edge is Rounded 45 degree
10x7.75" Rack Tom - 8 ply, 7.2mm "Thin"; 2 inner Mahogany, 5 ply Maple in the middle, 1 outer Bubinga; Edge is Rounded 45 degree
12X8.5" Rack Tom - 8 ply, 7.2mm "Thin"; 2 inner Mahogany, 5 ply Maple in the middle, 1 outer Bubinga; Edge is Rounded 45 degree
13x9.5" Rack Tom on left - 6 ply, 7.5mm "Regular"; 2 inner mahogany, 3 ply Maple in the middle, 1 outer Bubinga; Edge is Rounded 45 degree
Floor Toms (Mic’d with Audix D4)
14x13" Floor Tom - 8 ply, 10mm "Regular"; 4 inner Mahogany, 3 ply Maple in the middle, 1 outer Bubinga; Edge is Rounded 45 degree
16x15" Floor Tom - 8 ply, 10mm "Regular"; 4 inner Mahogany, 3 ply Maple in the middle, 1 outer Bubinga; Edge is Rounded 45 degree
Gong Drum (Mic’d with Audix D6)
20x15"- 8 ply, 10mm "Regular"; 7 ply Mahogany, 1 ply Bubinga on the outside. Fully Rounded Edge. Finish is a fade from the head down instead of the burst like the rest b/c of it being single headed
Kick Drums (Mic’d with Audix D6s)
22x17 kicks. 10 ply, 12.5mm "Regular"; 6 inner are Mahogany - BOOM!! The middle 3 plies are Maple and the outside Bubinga.
Overheads (Mic’d with two Audix SCX-25A)
Cymbals from left to right:
17” Sabian Xtreme China regular finish
10” Zildjian K Splash
14” Hi-Hats: K Custom Session (Steve Gadd model)
19” Zildjian K Dark Crash
20” K Custom Session Ride (Steve Gadd model)
14” Zildjian Mastersound as second hi-hat
18” Zildjian A Custom Crash 
Видеоклипы
Both sound great - but die cast gets my thumbs up.
Love the sound of your kit! Those toms are spot on.
Thanx, I'm a tom tuning nut and always checking them :)
You made a very helpful video. And what a beautiful setup and sound you have there. Thanks Jeff!
@@jasoncoffey Thanx Jason!
The triple flanged had more ring and sustain where as the die cast was slightly more controlled but overall both sounded awesome !🔥👍
Thanx Nick!
Merry Christmas jafo… keep us entertained we love you brother
Thanx JAFI! I hope you are doing well over there - berry goot!! :D
Beautiful snare, kit, and cymbals!
Thanks for sharing and Happy Drumming!!!
Thanx! :)
@@JeffWald 😃 👍 👊
Gorgeous sounding kit all the way around and that's a killer Mozambique you've got going there!
right on, thanx Jeff! (Great name, btw)
Merry Christmas man. Love the sound of your set and I really enjoy the content.
Thanks, you too! We'll have to connect up here next year, I'd love to have you out and bring some of them awesome Turkish cymbals to demo!
Love the focus of the die cast. Great recording!
Thanx!!
I mostly like die cast, but this one is an exception.. certainly you did an awesome job with the tuning when using the triple flanged hoops. Great video!
Thanx Carlos!
Solid playing and the drums sound great...
To my ears, the triple flange sounded better than the die cast More open and gave a pleasant ring The die cast was more muffled but still sounded good but I would have went with the triple flange
Thanx Dave. I'm still messing around with it as simply having a Supraphonic is new to me!
Very nice Jeff! I just acquired a like new 2010 LM400 last week. Just waiting for my new snare wires to arrive to slap them on!
There ya go! Have you had one before? This is my first. Besides that I've only had (still have) an Acrolite
Nice demonstration! I liked when you demonstrated the rims on your arms. Never seen that before. 😊
Glad you liked it! I just did it b/c of how nicely they sounded when I was moving them around.
Love the YYZ reference too! Lol
Merry Christmas Jeff! Both hoops sound great, but if I had to choose one based on the demo, I’m leaning toward the die cast, which surprised me. I typically like drums to resonate (like your amazing toms), but for the snare, I guess I prefer a more focused attack. Cool to hear the hoops being tapped while off the drum. The Supra sounds great!
Thanx Freddy! I've still got the DC on it, tuned it lower and really like it. I'll go back to the trip flange soon but am gonna take advantage of this while I can :)
Love the Le Studio neon light!
Thanx Kevin! There's a few places online that make them - had to do it 😎
Thanks so much for creating this video! I was just thinking of doing the same thing and you answered my question. While the triple flange hoop rings longer off the drum, I think the die cast hoop actually makes the drum ring more when it's on the drum. I have a Pearl Free-Floating Brass Piccolo and I'm going to try it myself and see how it sounds. I prefer playing on die cast hoops for the snare, especially for rim shot and cross-stick sounds. Your drums sound great and fine playing also.
Thanx alot, Chris! That's an interesting thought that DCs may make it actually ring longer. I've been playing my main matching snare for the past several weeks so I haven't messed with it recently but I'll have to pay attention to it next time. Have fun with it!
Interesting sounds you got out of the rims. A number of years ago I did a comparison between the Ludwig Twin Channel DC hoops and a pair of Ludwig triple flange hoops, suspended on a string.
When struck with a stick, the TCDC hoops really sang out and the TF were a dull 'clang.' Your TF hoops sound so much better than what I got out of mine.
interesting indeed! I've noticed others having a sound over the years but never really paid attention to it. Merry Christmas, my brother!
@@JeffWald Merry Christmas and a happy, health, and prosperous New Year to you and your family!
Cool video topic !
Triple Flange is my favorite, Your tom sound Great!
Thanx!
Great comparisons but gotta say your kit sounds amazing what make is it and what mics you using
Thanx! Its a Pearl Masterworks & I'm using Audix mics. Matter of fact, I think the details of everything is in the description. Merry Christmas!
Great video, thanks! I would love to have heard the difference in Crosstick sound.
aww man.... totally forgot but will do another one comparing that - thanx for the idea!!
Beautiful drum
Thanks a lot!
I always go die cast,....but i remember having a ludwig 5inch super sensitive and when i cranked on the die cast hoops it sounded choked, and dry-which was a bummer,but you cant win them all, and when its all said and done-the drummer himself makes the sound and feel of a drum.good video.nice drums.
Thanx for the input, Jeff! Great name - btw :)
Hey,Happy Holidays to You and yours Jeff!!! Honestly? I hear ZERO DIFFERENCE in "resonance" between those two hoops when their on the snare!!! Of course,that's most likely due to how the snare is tuned! However,I DID notice a degree in volume of sound when using the die-cast hoop!!! So who knows!?!?! Either way,I LOVED watching this video as I do ALL your video's an By ALL MEANS........doing that "YYZ" drum-hoop sound was RUSHALICIOUS as could be!!! LOL. Wishing You the best Brotha!!! : >)
ha, the YYZ thing just hit me right then, had to roll w/ it! I've still got the DC on it and tuned it lower and put my homemade zero ring that I use on almost everything on it and it really sounds nice! thanx for your support my friend, Merry Christmas!
Thank You My Friend,Same to You as well!
: >) @@JeffWald
I did the same test on both the 5” & the 6.5”. IMHO, the triple flange sounds better on the 5” and the die cast sounds better on the 6.5”. Merry Christmas!!!!
Thanx Johnny! I don't have the 6.5" yet but will keep that in mind if I end up getting one
Very good comparison. I put some die cast hoops on my 14"x6,5" black beauty and I like it. Actually.....which one did YOU prefer, you didn't say in the video.
Honestly, I'm not sure yet! I've still got the DCs on and tuned it down some and it sounds great that way too. I'm just new to Supraphonics in general so I'm having fun just screwing around/adjusting to its sound
@@JeffWald ok good. Thanks for the answer and merry Christmas to you.
The difference is more noticable than i thought. I prefer the die cast. More shell, more crack.
Thanx Alan!
I'm here becouse I recently got an 8"×14" supralite.....I put 30 strands on it and it helped choke some of the crazy overtone.. I have a set of pearl mastercast hoops laying around and was thinking of tossing them on to see what it would do...lol
❤
yeah, try it and see!
The good thing about die cast hoops, is that they still resonate at lower tunings, but it's a controlled resonance that's not overbearing. I found a pair of used die cast hoops for my 1971 Acrolite for $60. Curious to see how that's going to sound.
nice score! I should try them on my old Acrolite, now you've got me curious
Great video! I am typically a die cast guy, but for this particular drum I think the triple flanged sounds better.
Jury is still out for me - they both sound great so I'm undecided
Thank you for doing this. Hitting each hoop on your arm was really 'ear' opening. The triple had a much more intense ring, which I really dislike. I now know why I've always preferred die cast on snares.
yeah man, i've done the hoop hits before but had forgotten until it got bumped in here. Thanx for your thoughts!
overall, I don't think the hoops make a big difference on shallower snares...my only question is were the triple flanges 2.3 or 3 mm?! I put a 2.3 on top of my 14x5 ludwig Element Evo. and it did help the overtones, but it wasn't a massive change in sound
Great question and I don't know the answer. Its whatever the stock flange was. Based on the serial # and research I was only able to determine that its no more than 20 yrs old but I don't know what mm they've used/changed to in the past 20 yrs
Not trying to be an idiot here, so I don't mean it this way, but, yeah the Supra sounds great as they all do, but the rest of your drums are indescribably freak'n amazing!!!! My God, if my drums sounded half that nice, I'd be thrilled. Just beyond a sound anyone could ask for. WOW!
Thanx man! I just got this so I've been having fun messing w/ it as its obviously a classic but I've never had one in all my 42 yrs of drumming. Merry Christmas!
To me it’s less about how they sound and more about how it “felt “ from your point of view. I have that snare and added a super hoop not a die cast and it kept the same sensitivity.
The die cast felt too stiff and the drum did not breathe the same way.
But sounded the same. Thx.
Good point, I hadn't thought about how the TF can make it feel "softer" (?)
Merry Christmas! Great video! I like the Die Cast best. Dude, you've spent SO MUCH time and effort setting up this awesome studio of yours! You've GOT to mount your cameras on something that isn't attached to your drum riser because it all but ruins all the hard work you've put into making your videos EXCELLENT. (The camera shake is beyond annoying IMPO). Hope you do not find this malevolent, just trying to push you a little harder to make it happen. Your content deserves it! : )
Thanx for the input brother! Its not as bad as it was but I'll take a look. The thing I'm trying to avoid is mounting anything to the walls or ceiling. I could try the HH side on the floor and then don't have it as wide angle. The overhead one - I'd need to come up with something for that that's moveable and on the floor behind me (where the 18" sub is right now). If you've got ANY suggestions feel free to let me know - I'm totally open to whatever would work that wouldn't require hard mounts on the walls/ceiling/beams. Thanx again!
@@JeffWald If you have a small camera like a Go Pro, then you could definitely mount the overhead on a "C-Stand" It would go high enough for sure. I don't know what type of camera you have on the side, but mounting it on anything other than what you are going to be sending shock vibrations to would surely make your vids more stable. I know it's probably much easier to be able to reach the camera record button too when it's closer to you... Your videos are awesome, just thinking of ways to make them even awesomer! : - )
@@skyko thanx man. All four are GoPro 7s so I'll research that a bit. Currently the OH one is clamped to an old mic stand but is on the riser right behind me so once I started using my HH foot it will wobble. The left one has been on a regular Pearl cymbal stand (tripod/rubber feet) with a long tom arm put in backwards so I can extend it to where I need and then its on the clamp.
I use a tripod for wide shots and MacGyver onto a mic boom stand other times...helps with shaking
@@Gooden_Eye great minds! I use a mic boom stand for the overhead and am now searching for opttions for a longer arm to put in it so it can stretch farther since I just put it on the floor behind me
They both sound great (you record a great snare drum, thatb helps too btw).
The one thing I'd change is the head. I always found these dotted ones tend to kill the drum's natural resonance. Then again I only play wooden snare drums, so that might be a factor.
Thanx my friend! I bought it from my friend George Lawrence and he asked me what head/s I'd want on it and I told him what I usually do (reg coated amb) but told him to surprise me. So he did, that's the first one of those I've ever had. I'll probably redo it again, a part 2, with the reg coated as well as do some cross stick/rim click examples
Triple flange all day! I have just purchased a Ludwig 24” 10 lug triple flange rim 🤘🏻
did I read that right - a 24" 10 lug rim - as in metal, as in not for a bass drum?! :)
@@JeffWald you did mate a metal triple flange rim. I also have a 22” Ludwig floor Tom from the early 70’s check out my YT got a video on the floor Tom and a community one on the 24” 😁
@@OriginalDrums just checked it out - that's so cool and so crazy! I had no idea they went beyond a 20" FT
@@JeffWald I know crazy! I’m crazy about collecting them… I know where a 28” is hiding, the guy is wavering on selling so just waiting to pounce on it 🤣
Pretty much the same...both sound good😊
Agreed! I don't have a preference yet
hello Jeff, i put die casts hoops on my 3 snare...i prefer the sound and the look!
They sound great on my FF for sure and I'm having fun w/ this combo. I tuned it down last night and put my redneck zero ring on it last night - very nice indeed!
Have a beautiful christmas Jeff
I did the samething with my pearl jupiter 5 x14 cob and i will keep the die cast on. Better tuning the head stay put No more 1.6 hoop for me on my snare. I should of been triying this idea 40 years ago🤟🏼🤟🏼🥁🇨🇦
Dont' feel bad, I got my first kit 42 yrs ago on Christmas morning (81) and I just got this snare and tried it out
I tried some pearl cast hoops on my 67 Supra. Sounded good. I put the original 1.5 triple flange back on it. It lost its Supraphonic voice. The shell is dry enough without using cast hoops. My opinion.
Right on, thanx Kevin. I'm just screwing around w/ it since I had the DCs lying around.
@@JeffWaldYour welcome. I used blue sparkle wrap from a 63 blue and gold Ludwig marching snare. Cut two pieces to fit the shell, leaving the chrome bead exposed. Same Pearl hoops you used. Painted some nylon washers to match the blue. It looked and sounded great… just not quite a Supra…I played it for a couple of months that way. Merry Christmas. Regards
Which one do you prefer Jeff?
I'm not sure yet. I've still got the diecast turn it down and I'm screwing around with it which sounds great to me. I just haven't had that snare long enough to even be used to the sound with either option. But I will! 😀 And I may try regular coated ambassador
@@JeffWald Merry Christmas JW and Family! 😉👍🏻♥️🙏🏻🎼🎼🇺🇲🥁🎄🎅🏻✝️🫡
I thought they both have good sound for various situations. The die cast seems to have suppressed resonance and the other more resonate.
The only thing I've determined is that both sound great. I was just messing around again w/ the DCs (They're still on from doing the video) and it sounds greatl
I need better headphones i can t hear a difference... Do you have a Favorit?
Currently I don't. I'm still having fun w/ the DCs but am going to try some other things out
Great sound but the die-cast was not in tune with the triple flange (lower pitch).
Yeah, I forgot to record the trip flange tune bot setting before I swapped them so I kept going back & forth and was like "close enough". Thanx for watching, Raymond!
Great comparison Jeff! It’s interesting clanging the hoops! I have a die cast hoop on my 8 Lug 5x14 Acrolite similar to your Supraphonic with die cast. I have a triple flange on my 5x14 black beauty (I have tried the die cast … prefer the triple flange on this drum). I have the die cast on my 6.5x14 Black Beauty it sounds great on that drum. There are differences and both sounds are great for different situations! It comes do to what you dig! But you can’t go wrong having a Supraphonic!
couldn't have said it any better!!!
right on, thanx my brother! yeah, they kept clanging as I was moving stuff around and then I was like "HEY!!!". anyway, the DC vs triple flange are interesting. I've still got the DC on it but tuned it down which really sounds nice. so i'll screw around w/ it for awhile. it never ends, does it?!
@@JeffWald it never ends Bro! I’m constantly changing things and changing it again! It’s great to have options … we are blessed brother! Merry Christmas to you and your family!
Lol. Nope,it never does! Haha,Happy Holidays Brother! @@JeffWald
Like the die cast hoops better more a controlled tighter sound and they fit better the way the toms are tuned!!
Thanx for checking it out, Michael. I'm still screwing around with the DCs, they sound nice!
Great thanks@@JeffWald
Merry Christmas brother
You too brother
I actually like the die cast tone a smidge better but that stock Supra sound is the shit
Agreed - the stock Supra really sounds great and I can't believe after 40 yrs that I've never had one til this month
Triple flange. Being flexible, they allow for an ‘unbalanced’ tuning that muffles the drum without a muffler.
Good point
On snares I prefer diecast hoos for that crack sound!
Ahh just caught lugs is it sonor
The kit? No, its a Pearl Masterworks
You could play “Carol Of The Bells” with those hoops… 😎
Hahaha they've got a great sound!
Triple flange
thanx for chiming in!
Gosh die cast i never beliaved this hoop thing but i closed my eyes and every time picked die casts dammit now i have to buy new hoops for my snares damnit
haha, both sound really good. it just comes down to preference and if you do buy some DCs you'll have options to switch back & forth
@@JeffWald that louder attack sold me
Almost sounds like steve gadd!
I'm gonna put on one of my wider homemade donuts to muffle it and try a few Gaddisms and see how it sounds!
Die cast sounds fatter and also better to my ears. I putted them on my hammered bronze 14x6,5 and the shell rings! No disturbing overtones, just great sound and fatter rimshots!
Nice! I haven't tried a bronze yet but want to at some point
Die cast for me easily!
Die cast all the way - although harder on sticks?
I'd say that all depends on how hard one hits. I don't hit real hard so I don't notice any difference when I use a snare w/ DCs
Hail hail Steve Gadd
The black dot head and die cast doesn't work. A good test would have been coated ambassadors instead.
Funny thing is I had a new one out (you can see it around 4:48 in the upper right corner) but since the dot was already on w/ the trip flange I just kept it consistent. I may do it again with the coated amb soon b/c I am curious
triple flanged,natural sound,pleasent ring,nice brite pitch. die cast weird lower ring pitch,dull an to focused.bottom line is if triple flanged was great for the late hal blaine and john bonham then its great for me.Anyway die cast wasnt ment to be used on any supraphonic alluminum or brass.Just my opinon.
Thanx for the input, Terry! I've got the triple back on it and have since gotten the 6.5" as well. Eventually I'll do the same comparison on that one. But I did read/watch recently that Bonham would put the 1.6mm hoops on it b/c they were even lighter than the standard 2.3. Interesting!