How to Install a Radiant Floor Heat System in a Garage | This Old House
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 12 мар 2020
- A radiant floor heat system gets installed in the garage.
#ThisOldHouse #AskTOH
SUBSCRIBE to This Old House: bit.ly/SubscribeThisOldHouse
With a living space above, the homeowners want to have heat in the new two car garage. They have opted for a sub-floor system. Kevin finds Richard and the Bilo plumbing team laying out the heating system before the concrete floor is poured. Richard shows him how the panels snap together and the tubing fits in. Two apprentices from a local vocational tech school help out. Concrete is poured on top.
About This Old House TV:
This Old House is the No. 1 multimedia home enthusiast brand, offering trusted information and expert advice through award-winning television, a highly regarded magazine, and an information-driven website. This Old House and Ask This Old House are produced by This Old House Ventures, LLC and are presented on PBS by WNET Washington.
Follow This Old House and Ask This Old House:
Facebook: bit.ly/ThisOldHouseFB
Twitter: bit.ly/ThisOldHouseTwitter
bit.ly/AskTOHTwitter
Pinterest: bit.ly/ThisOldHousePinterest
Instagram: bit.ly/ThisOldHouseIG
Tumblr: bit.ly/ThisOldHouseTumblr
Keywords:
Newton Generation Next, This Old House, Richard Trethewey, Kevin O'Connor, radiant floor heat system, garage, install
Watch the full episode:
www.thisoldhouse.com/newton-g...
How to Install a Radiant Floor Heat System in a Garage | This Old House
/ thisoldhouse 
Хобби
After watching T.O.H. for years, finally decided to go with radiant in the basement. Floor had to come up in places for plumbing improvements anyway, so took out entire floor and installed the radiant heat system. Wow such a huge improvement over gas forced heat. Thank you T.O.H.!
I agree with the last comment, would love to see the plumbing. There’s a lot of diy stuff on the inter webs, but I’d like to see a professional install. I did all this a few months back in my new shop it would be awesome to compare my plan for the plumbing to how you guys are gonna do it. Long time huge fan of the show.
Thanks
Joe
This Old House doesn't get into the advanced install tutorials anymore. It's basically glorified HGTV at this point. If you want to see detailed installations you need to watch Ask This Old House for that.
The absolute best heat possible! I installed an electric thermal mass heated floor in my century old house after I installed high insulation under the floor and in the attic. Fantastic way to store intermittent electricity from my roof solar PV or regional wind farms.
I just pressure tested my garage today at 40 psi and I'll be pouring 4000 psi concrete with fiber on Monday, I used 2000 ft, of !/2 pex ,8 inches on center in a 1500 sf garage over 2 inch blue board using a Malco plastic staples. Must be nice having all that help!
I'm sure you guys don't read all the comments but it would be really great if you would start putting a materials list in the video description or links to materials. There's always some cool product that does something better but you never tell us the name of it or where we can get it.
Mathew Kinnison Follow the link to the full episode and at the end all the vendors are listed
The foam is veiga
I had this for 5 years. It is heaven not getting in a cold car. It is worth every penny especially if you have a shop in your garage.
Do you bolt anything down to the floor?
Peter Petrakis nope put it down and pour. Make sure your hvac contractor sizes it right.
Irony is that if you live in a place that salts the roads a heated garage is the the worst place to put your car overnight. The salt slurry being allowed to melt over and over increases corrosion compared to if it was just left frozen in place.
This is a great application for radiant heat but so many other videos talk about getting max output to the room by keeping the pipes within 2 inches of the floor surface. What am I missing here with the pipes under 4 inches of concrete?
I'm plumber who works on floor heating for the Rich folks in Beverly Hills, Pacific palisades, Malibu it's pretty neat work just making sure you have enough tubing because they only sell in rolls
I'm in alberta, Canada looking at this, boggles my mind anyone in southern california would need this, wow!
I also want to see the plumbing end of things! How to choose the circulator pump, how to size the boiler???
Also, this is a 4” slab can you do this with a 6” or greater slab depth or would the pex be too low to work?
Here, in Europe, we work with these panels since 2000.... Anyway, good video!
Here in America, we perfected it since around 1940 after Frank Lloyd Wright's visit to Japan.
@@vauzz66 I’ve scene dozens of FLW homes, raised my kids in one for 19 years. Never has a single one had radiant heat systems, electric or hydronic.
In truth, FLW homes are so poorly sealed and insulated, I doubt a radiant system would be effective. We were in very temperate Marin yet I still spent $800-1000 monthly in utilities, primarily consumed by forced-air hvac systems. No denying it was a beautiful and stylish home but it was the worst built home I’ve owned...by a large margin. When we sold it, I honestly breathed a sigh of relief knowing that it’s less than mile from San Andreas fault line up on a ridge. When the forecasted 7+ shaker hits, that house will be tumbling down the slope, likely into the Bay.
@@MichaelM-to4sg well, he did write some books where he explains the floor system. Many use it today. In one of many books and my personal favorite, it depicts the smaller Usonian and their radiant floor heating system. Most California homes of that time were not insulated and didn’t have central air - just the weather and the time. I’m sorry you experienced so many problems in your FLW house. It only took 6 million or so to fix up the Hollyhock house. Which house were you in ?
Best way to heat a garage, no question!
Just don’t cheap out and use a water heater for the source, buy a boiler and be done with it
Sure, if you do a slab like they did you need much higher water temps to overcome the thermal losses. We put 6” GPS subarea foam over vapor barrier; 2 3” thick sheets with no overlapping seams. The outer are ripped 45* to better eliminate thermal bridging to footing. We can then run 125* water through PEX using a heat pump water heater and buffer tank. My 5-car garage here at 9000’ elevation in Rockies stays 58*, even in coldest winter days powered by our PV panels and battery backup👍
@@MichaelM-to4sg 5 car, and heated! Awesome! Yah for sure that heat pump will do the trick. I just think for longevity, 20 years plus, a mod con boiler is best way to go. Unless the garage is the only thing in the home being heated (or if you have a 5 car!! )
@@marksullivan3424 In truth, it’s only 3 for cars, 1 for team Sprinter van and 1 for motorcycles. We support a flat track race team. There’s also 750 sqft workshop. The main residence and guest house are detached but also hydronic heated, although raised foundations, not slab on-grade. Both of those structures are heated by heat pump water heaters. As long as hydronic temps can be kept
Have you ever had a problem whereby the burner is overworked in trying to keep up with a fluctuating temperature reading from the thermostat? When it gets cold, my garage thermostat calls for heat and I notice that the burner kicks in and cycles on and off every 15 seconds or so.
@@almason253 If I were to guess it’s the slab temp probe that’s triggering system. That probe is installed incorrectly where it’s too close to the hydronic tubing. We always install slab temp probe minimum 4” from any tubing.
I would consult w/your hydronic installer to diagnose issue. If you want to diy diagnose issue, disconnect the slab temp probe input and see if issue is resolved.
Good luck👍
May I ask you that can I install the tile directly to the floor after using self leveling cement to level the floor? Thank you
Love the show! I was wondering about how much it costs to lay it down and then how much does it cost to run the system?
Keep the great videos coming.
Thanks for sharing and God bless
Roy Wrenn … it does cost more up front than conventional heat but the saving is over a period of time because you feel comfortable at 5 - 10 degrees lower t-stat setting. The main reason is a warm floor keeps things dry and your feet are always warm, then of course it's completely silent and no drafts at all. To figure cost you'd need to have someone run the calculations for your installation based on needed temp rise, which determines the tube spacing. IOW, how many feet of tube and what size tube to place in the floor. The actual water temp going through the tubes will be VERY low..... maybe in the 80 - 90 degree range.
@@rupe53 Water temp is dependent upon thermal efficiency and thermal mass being heated. In the case of this install where minimal insulation below slab is fitted and the thermal mass is a roughly 500sqft 4” concrete slab, water temp is typically 155-160f. Had they properly insulated below slab, we used 6” GPS foam for R-30, water temps can be 125f using 3/4” PEX in 4” slab. In our home we use Thermalboard in raised foundation w/R30 at joists and 4” cc foam at perimeter footings, we run 85f under hardwood floors and 105f under stone tile floors
@@MichaelM-to4sg ... as you pointed out, water temp depends on a lot of things, including the amount of insulation and the depth of the pipe from the top on the floor surface. With old school copper or iron pipe in the floor the water was never above 100 degrees, but most of that was due to the expansion rate of solid pipe. As you also pointed out, that insulation is not very much for an installation that I presume to be on their home turf. (Massachusetts)
You should have mentioned that the pex tubing needs to be pressurized when setting the cement floor
Where do you buy this equipment? I didn't see it at Lowes or Home Depot.
While a garage is nice in the winter not the best place for a car, worse if it’s heated. Slush will melt and start rusting the car and dried salt will attack the concrete. Perfect if you store your car or actually work on it.
How often we need to break floor to change broken tube?
I wish. Can you please do a project on my house?
where did you buy these
Insulation first, vapor barrier second!
Hope they pressure tested it before the concrete was poured
Where can you buy the mats
Most building scientists tell you to put the moisture barrier over the insulation to keep it from iceberging.
Might be a dumb question, forgive me as I'm not a professional, but doesn't putting the pipes inside the slab create a lot of risk in the sense that if there was ever a burst pipe or just a leak, it would be a huge hassle / expensive to tear up the concrete? Maybe I'm not being rational but if I had a heated driveway or radiant in-floor beneath concrete, asphalt, etc I feel like I'd live in constant fear of having to rip up the concrete / asphalt at some point
does this require a circulator pump??
I don't like these 5 minutes or less clips . We need longer videos!
Its a tease to get you to pay up to watch longer episodes. All business.
Elephantstripes then buy it on one of the pay per view channels and watch the full episode
I don’t watch 5 min or longer vids...
@@clayman1000x Someone needs to start a This House Show. WITHOUT 5 min videos
Great video!! Only question is did they pull up the mesh after pouring? You don’t want the wires rubbing on the tubing. It will eventually make pin holes in it, obviously causing leaks.
Once the concrete sets, there's no rubbing going on.
@@augustreil Why would you think they would put mesh down and then pull it back up?! No, they don't do that.
@@ryanroberts1104 The mesh should be in the center of the slab thickness. It doesn't add much strength if it's at the bottom of the slab.
@@michaelwarren2391 That's why they sell little concrete spacer blocks for putting in your reinforcements.
No pressure testing before the pour???
Can anyone explain to me, why the new vapour layer comes above insulation, not under,? I had the impression you're supposed to have water layer under, and vapour layer above instulation... Am I wrong here?
we all grew up making these. a lego house!
Can this work for an entire house, especially when pouring the stem slab?
Yes it can work in the entire house, you can can use water pumps to push the water into different zones of the house. Just need to do a heat loss of the house.
Which product are you installing here?
Sign me up! I want it. Oh wait. I live on the southern coast.
Well pump cold water through for cooling lol
Can’t help but wonder what this would cost??
What is the name of that tool that attaches the pex tube to the insulation?
a foot
Nice video. But, maybe I missed it, why would I want my garage floor heated?
In the north it gets pretty cold and some people use their garages as workshops / Man Caves.
@@RichmondBaker or gyms, yoga studios, garage bands
What about the seem between the floor and the wall?
Could this be used as a whole house system in a monolithic slab possibly?
Yes.
Jamie Burks I owned a house that had this. It was built in the 50’s, cape cod on a slab, and they ran copper tubing through the slab. Not realizing many years later that pinhole leaks would develop from corrosion rendering the whole system useless. Everyone in the neighborhood just closed it off and put baseboard in. Pex would obviously last much longer.
@@I-Teee Interesting that you should mention radiant heating systems that use copper tubing. I lived in an apartment building that when it was built [circa 1950s] must have been quite innovative because it used radiant heating in the ceilings (i.e. my neighbour's ceiling heat downstairs became my floor radiant heating and my ceiling heating became the upstairs neighbour's radiant floor heating et cetera). I lived there a total of 35 years until 2014. There were intermittent problems balancing the heating system properly due to poor maintenance and understanding of the whole-building system but the worst problem in my unit was pin-hole leaks in the copper tubing that would leak during the heating months while the system was under pressure and hot water was flowing. It took years until it happened in my unit, but then it started happening more frequently. This would involve first seeing a 'wet patch' on the ceiling and then the plumber would be in to hack away at the plaster and put in a soldered length of new tubing to patch the problem until the next one would appear. There was no other option to heat the building since there were no hotwater radiators and a retrofit of any kind was not going to be done by the landlord. It was explained to me that during the installation even a minor kink in the tubing would eventually cause a degradation of the copper at the molecular level until it sprang a pinhole leak. Fortunately, none of the tubing was laid in a slab but in an area of the ceiling where there was at least a foot or more between my ceiling and the upstair's neighbour's flooring. The real worry was that it would leak with little warning and damage my furnishings. Great idea radiant floor heating but scary to think of what is happening completely out of sight and/or buried beneath concrete.
Marc Goodman Interesting story. What part of the country (wondering if it was a prevalent process in certain markets). My residence was in SE PA.
@@I-Teee I live in Toronto, Ontario. I think we probably share some similar winter weather. I don't know how widespread its use was in Toronto but I found a link to a page on the 40 Park Road building which was/still using(?) this copper tubing radiant heat system:
www.historynerd.ca/2018/11/11/todmorden-developments-brings-bachelorama-to-the-rosedale-valley-1956/
However, it appears that the use of copper tubing for radiant heating may have been in use in your neck of the woods when postwar "Levittowns" built in New York and Pennsylvania incorporated this method of radiant heating in their assembly-line built homes: www.pmmag.com/articles/91874-a-brief-history-of-radiant-heating
The article mentions the shortcomings in this method of heating due to the very rapid construction methods which left little time for the workers doing the installations: "The copper-and-concrete radiant system wasn’t the best combination for all those Levittown homes. Workers on such tight construction timetables had no room for error either. Most Levittown systems failed within 15 to 20 years." If you and your neighbours live in a Levittown project it's very possible that the failure of your radiant heating system was "built in" (no pun intended). It's been a bit of an education in radiant heating for me. P.S. The building I used to live in was built next to the headquarters for the Ontario Association of Architects. It's possible the youthful team of architects wanted to make a statement to impress their colleagues in the business and that included the innovative design of the building and the building materials used, i.e. window walls and radiant heating.
What's the name of the flooring insulation material?
Puck board
I have a tube leaking in my radiant heat system, under the slab in my home. Can someone recommend a contractor who can detect the location of the leak and then repair. I live in the Lawrence MA area. .
@Kelly Appel
Thank you Kelly still looking - it's unbelievable out there.
Is Pex a good conductor of heat??
Better use multi layer aluminum PEX tubing to maximize heat transfer and reliability.
Did it crack over time
No pressure test before you pour the concrete??? That confident there is no possible leaks???
This is a video less than 4 mins in length attempting to explain the concept of a system not be some all inclusive guide for installation.
@@theripper121 You clearly missed my point... if you are going to provide a quick overview of the milestones of this project, not even mentioning the pressure check (which is kind of a big step)
I’d love to do this but my ceiling is too low. This old house garage was built by Smurf’s lol
Looks like giant Lego base.
I hope no one used durapex for concrete floor installations.
so what happens when there is a leak on the pex?
why would there be a leak
...and no mention of pressure testing...WTF
This is a video less than 4 mins in length attempting to explain the concept of a system not be some all inclusive guide for installation.
anyone know where this house was? what state?
Newton, Massachusetts.
No pressure test?
This is a video less than 4 mins in length attempting to explain the concept of a system not be some all inclusive guide for installation.
They look like lego...
Just be very careful after concrete if you have to anchor something, i saw accidents already
They poured 4" slab on top.
Where is this installation? How do you protect against frost heave when you turn it off?
Being in a garage, 99% of the time frost isn't an issue.
@@augustreil … frost heave may not be an issue but freezing pipes could be. One would have to put antifreeze in that loop just in case it was turned off in cold weather.
@@rupe53, I agree, most have anti-freeze in them.
If you have gravel or sand for fill in the garage it will have little to no expansion due to frost. It stays dry if the fill goes below frost line. Think of a French drain
@@dans4900 ... in theory, there should be no frost inside. OTOH, if you start out with a water problem you'd best solve that issue first.
This can also be done with electric radiant.
Why didn't a floor drain get installed in the garage?
Was there a trench drain out side? And when the garage door is shut it's hard for water to drain outside.
Some local codes don’t allow for floor drains. In most cases, the drain leads to a pit with a sump pump and that water just gets kicked out in your backyard then once a year you shovel out all the crap
One problem I see with radiant heat - or any other kind of heat - in a garage, is accelerated corrosion. If you're in snow country and the locals use a lot of road salt, all that salty slop is going to sit on your car while it's parked in the garage. Heat accelerates any chemical reaction, including the corrosive action of salt.
Wash it
sorry... saw the thumbnail, thought it was a lego video.
I'm learn from this I'm bilingual hire my own crew do my own jobs thanks
WOW That concrete mix was VERY VERY wet. Not good for a strong slab.!!!!!!
Once you go radiant, you’ll never go back, and never be happy living with anything else. I lived in a rental with radiant floors and noticed that all my allergies went away, and noticed I never had to dust anymore. Nice landlord and I chatted and he explained it all to me. So I then became addicted to it. Couldn’t ever live anywhere with forced air again. Ugh. Dust! Allergies! Listen, the monthly heat savings pays for it over time, and if you’re debating the cost of radiant at all, please know it is a bargain at any price. Worth its weight in gold. Sacrifice any other thing on your wish list, and spend it on radiant. 100%. I think the US is the only country in the world where radiant isn’t the standard. Even radiators are better than forced air. And radiant flooring is better than anything else. Do it.
I've done this before , I hate trades work what a bunch of bs work. Always a layoff in the winter
Sent North next time, stay in school....idiot
So you end up withy a floor you can't do anything with other than park your cars.
Huh?
@@Navy1977 Repair your car, fix the lawnmower, build furniture, you know, all the normal things productive people do on a floor!
That was some seriously wet concrete. It’s gonna CRACK in no time.
Only thing they did wrong was use crimp pex.....
Why does a garage need heating? That garage has more heating than my entire house does.
some people work in their shops and garages...in the winter.....
what a luxury item for a garage. Not green building for sure but really nice to have warm feet. you need to keep it on 24/7 to make it work.
wonder how much that costs with the foam things and heating system
You don’t need high temperature water. If your garage is insulated it’s not a big deal. Make your wife happy. Give her a warm garage.
Not green lmfao.
Never worked in a garage, eh? Summer months are great for heat...
Colin Bollinger … If you are heating the garage anyway (work or other reason) this is as green as it gets. You feel comfortable at 5 - 10 degrees lower because the floor is heated. Basically the savings is on the back end because it does cost more to install.
Someone buy that kid some shoes
Legos!
On a rainy or snowy day, I think the heat will generate a lot of moisture in there.
When you heat it lowers relative humidity since warm air holds more water vapor than cold air.
Concrete over styrofoam, wow. If you drive a car onto it, won't the slab crack near the walls, as it moves up and down?
jej3451 I have this. No cracks. Use 4000 lb concrete.
I wondered that too.
4" thick with rebar, why should it crack?
There are different density foam. Have to use the high density. It's designed for this.
I would never do this. Water damage just waiting to happen. Sometimes luxury isn't worth it.
I did something like this a month ago with plans from Woodglut.
No you don’t have a heated floor, all you have is some empty pipes underneath a concrete floor, show the plumbing part also next time, stop only showing half a project
@John This is just a clip from an episode of This Old House.
That insulation is WAAAY too thin. LOTS of heat loss to the ground.
Its the US, they don´t (yet) care. In Germany we would use 4-6 inch insulation in that case. But generally, we would pour the concrete slab above a primary insulation, then add another 4 inch of insulation above the slab, put in the heating tubes and then pour 3-4 inch screed on top of it.
@@Navy1977 The concrete slap thickness itself varies on how much load it must supply. But in general around 8-10 inch.
When using a heat pump you want a large thermal mass as buffer.
thumps down: repeated errors loading video
Henk ter Heide ok I gave you a thumbs down. 👎🏿 why downvote the video for something out of their control completely. Seems awfully peckish. Childish even.
@@BlackSwan912 complain to youtube. which, of course, you can't do. but This old house can.
What if there’s a leak after an earthquake? Can’t find the leak and you gotta jack hammer your whole garage floor :/
Put some extra socks and a jacket on instead!
Feed a fiber-optic borescope into the line and visually inspect it from the inside.
If it's leaking after an earthquake, there will likely be a crack in the concrete where the lead has occurred. In which case, you will want to repair the floor as well as the leak.
Earthquake in New England? If you live in California you don’t need this.
TheSynysterVyrus … Leaks can be found with a thermal imaging camera. (the leak creates a hot spot) In the old days a plumber would ask if the cat found a new place to sleep. Animals are smart about taking their naps in the warm spot.
Possibly necessary for the driveway but definitely not a garage. If I had millions.. then I'd do it but that ain't happening anytime soon.
Jsweizston think outside the box. Many pole barns and shops are heated with this method.
Most wasteful way to heat
@mr anderson how is it wasteful?