@@TileCoachI guess that explains why there's so many homeless people in California. My grandpa used to say he could make a living with a spoon. He would need a license now to bend it into a ring. Thanks for your response.
I'm not sure what to say. I was an apprentice in a lot of trades. But the amount of hours required working as a slave to take a test is done on purpose. I'm grateful for the knowledge, but if a person can do things themselves and pass inspection, screw all that BS. This is exactly why things cost so much. Government sucks the wind from everyone's sails.
@@SuperAfranks "Government [is bad]." NO. In this case, the government is there to make the incompetent and unscrupulous think twice before scamming innocent dupes (not you of course), something the "free market" cannot compensate for.
Nice video. We installed our own heated floor, before the tile work. Just a small area in front of the vanity and toilet. About 15 Sq Ft to keep the feet warm and heat a small bathroom. $500 or so material cost. I did it myself - a few hours each day for 2 days. Materials: Thermosoft mat, Honeywell GFI Thermostat, 20 amp dedicated circuit (bathroom is very close to the main panel), Sensor and backup sensor, staple gun, and Self-Leveling Cement (to protect the mat/wires). Process: - Quick coating of any waterproof membrane on subfloor (for SLC to adhere) - seal gaps where slc would run using spray foam, etc - Staple mat down - Install thermostat, circuit, and sensor (1 primary , 1 backup - backup is not connected to thermostat - just leave wires there in case first sensor fails). - Protect mat & wires with thin layer of SLC Note: SLC is optional but Very Smart. Otherwise, the tile guy can nick/cut the heating wires or sensor wires. That would be BAD. Spend a few bucks and protect it with SLC - and the floor will be fast, easy, flat and level = perfect lippage.
First let me say that I appreciate your videos more than you can ever know. The time and effort you put into making these videos must be enormous, much more than what we see. The passion you have for your job shows. Today was the first time I've watched this video regarding underfloor heat, and I had to laugh, because, $290 + $290 does not equal $480, its $580. But there again, you seem like the kind of guy that would always come down on the customer side. (SMILE) Thanks again for your passion.
Best heat ever! After I super insulated my attic and under my floor I installed a warm electric heated floor and it is awesome. Especially since it is powered by renewably powered electricity from my roof top solar PV system.
AARON! please text me! We have the solar panels but we haven't figured out the whole where to store the batteries...we simply have questions... were almost finished painting and we need to get a move on the floors. Ordering and getting what we need, so we can start already!!! Thank you. Om at 720 828 1202
@@Suzyston My SunPower solar PV system is grid connected. So I export electricity seamlessly during sunny days and at night my house imports electricity from the grid. I have a light switch on my thermal mass electric floor heating slab. It is then plugged into the wall socket. When switched off the floor emits even, constant and silent heat for 8 hours before needing more electricity. My 3' x 9' unit cost around $1,000 in materials. On the hardwood floor I laid down an R6 layer of tinfoil foam board, then 2 layers of concrete board, then a 3" perimeter layer. Inside I rolled out the electric heating serpentining $300 mat. With a stapler I made it flat as possible and filled it will grout. I then placed another layer of concrete board and then tiled it completely. I recommend we focus on high insulation in all perimeter walls, floor and attic. New windows are nice but not really necessary. Thin flim plastic works really well. R35 floors are necessary along with R100 attics. You will feel an immediate increase in comfort. I dug out the crawlspace under the whole house over two winters. By allowing 2 feet of wiggle room I installed R29 batts of recycled glass up between the 10 inch floor joists. They fit perfectly. But to hold them up I plated the underside with 1" R6 tinfoil foam insulation using 2" screws and large washers. I then can spray foamed the seams, cut even and sealed everything with the aluminum tape forming an R35 plate of insulation under the whole footprint under the house. For solar PV and batteries, I say start small and add batteries and solar panels as needed in off grid applications. One 100 watt solar PV panel in cloudy northwest winter will give you 3 hours of LED 8 watt light. 600 watts of solar PV will power tools. But anything with heat...no go. Your inverter will beep beep immediately. Perhaps with an electric vehicle and off grid large batteries we can have off grid electric heated floors too. I think for off grid heat one needs high insulation then wood heat, liquid heated floor plus electric heating...with a growing solar PV rack. So after the batteries are full the extra electricity is directly into heat in the floor. Hope this helped.
Thank you for the breakdown. I'm also glad to see people chime in with additional thoughts and even some corrections. That's what makes RUclips so valuable. Some brave soul starts the conversation and some other people further the discussion. I'm going to chime in too: the cost is exactly as you said "running hours", time when the thermostat calls for heat, not time when the system is enabled. Insulation below the slab (assuming you're installing on a slab) can vary from none at all to R30 and all points in between. Mainly this, but also the overall efficiency of the home, will vary the run time and the subsequent operating costs. That being so variable, I'm glad you presented it as running hours because anything else would be a hazardous guess. Great job! One slight correction: the electrician would run 12/2 for either area. There is no neutral needed for a 20A 2 pole circuit, unless the system uses a 120v control circuit or motor, as in the case of an electric range or clothes dryer, respectively.
Video autoplayed on me... I'm glad I am able to do this kind of work myself. Everyone who wants nice things but isn't rich should learn some DIY skills. I did 80sqft for about $400 - no contractors. The only Schluter stuff I bought that was the Ditra-Heat membrane because Schluter is hollier than thou... You can get safe reliable wire, sensors, and thermostats for a fraction of the price from other manufacturers.
Great video! A few years ago I did a heated tile floor in my washroom; its awesome. Decided to not heat my kitchen floor and I regret it. Its not feasable to tear up the tiles just to put back heated floor now. Live and Learn
First off, love the videos, always very helpful. Just a little math point, 2 x 290 for the larger membrane is 580 rather than the 480 that you've put :)
Have to use both your ears, in the beginning he did say that as you purchases larger systems it becomes more cost effective. Therefore 480 is more cost effective than 580 as it should be ;)
Saw that too. I know laticrete sells strata mat in 2 sizes 150sqft and 323 sqft or something like that and the bigger roll is cheaper. I suppose schleuter has something similas
I did it in Northern Wisconsin in the kitchen where I spend a lot of time, and in the bathrooms. It makes it much easier to feel comfortable in a place with no basement. With a basenent, your furnace in the basement and heat runs below the first floor keep it warm. Because we have at least a half month of well below zero temps, I knew as we age the comfort will make it worth the expense. If I didn't have the money to do the kitchen, I woukd still try to do the baths.
Excellent Video Isaac. I'm a GC myself and this is brought up just about every time I remodel a bath. Funny thing is I was just talking to my wife about this yesterday when we kicked on our Schluter heated floors for the first time this winter after remodeling our master bath this spring. I'm totally jealous of your Kwh rates in Roseville. Here in Antioch CA we are at 24 cents
I love my electric radiant bathroom floor heat. It is the best thing I've ever done to my home. I have helped several friends install it in their bathroom remodels. Nobody regrets it. Everybody loves it.
We have had our Ditra floor installed for two years now under slate tile in our family room and have loved it. We would absolutely install it again. Our thermostat will even tell us how much electricity we have used. Would not have stone or tile floors without the heated floors. We put it in the laundry room too. It will also go into the bedroom bathroom when we remodel those rooms. If you can afford it it is worth it.
I have forced hot air heat in my condo currently. But I will soon be installing my primary heat system with electric flooring mats or cables. As a retired person what better use of my money than to make myself comfortable in my own home? (Yes, I donate money to worthy causes, too!) But the issue for me is the noise from the furnace cycling on and off. It drives me bananas!!! And it blows dust everywhere. Yes, I know there are 2 cycle furnaces but then there is still the dust issue! Even with the best filters I can find, which are about $30 a piece, dust, dust, dust. So electric heating seems ideal. Now if I can figure out the a/c issues I'll really be a Very happy person! 🤗
We are in upstate New york. I pay 13 cents per kilowatt. We have a living room dining room and hallway ditra heat under vinyl tile planks. Over 700 sq ft. Using 240... it's only using 3 KW hours per day and it runs 24/7. (Vinyl flooring does not hold the heat.) Ceramic Tile floor is much warmer and a better suited as we have that installed in our kitchen... But the material and labor savings using the vinyl tile over ceramic tile... it's so cheap to run.. we're glad we used vinyl tile... Last thing I would recommend you use the company Warmly Yours. You get a much more even heat distribution but it's much more labor intensive to install... We have both systems in our house..
I did my kitchen floor, insulation, heating matt, latex then tile. I found even without heating on it was much warmer than before because of the insulation, you can really notice the difference as the next room hasn't been done yet and it's freezing I tested it with the kitchen floor heating off for two weeks, walking between the two was massively different.
Ive done these type of floors. And the methods and cost can vary... But a factor that is not calculable in monetary terms, is quality of the floor radiant heat.... It is fantastic. I would highly recommend
In Canada electricity is insane. But if I were building a new home or advising a client I would 100% go with heated floors via hot water system for entire home along with walls and ceiling spray foam. So efficient and really the cost difference these days is fairly small.
For operational costs, we must first figure out how many kw will be required and that requires a heat loss calculation for the space. You can actually use the R-rating of the walls, ceilings and floors, together with U-values for any windows, and figure out the heat that will be lost (and thus needs to be replaced) in BTU per hour per square foot. For easy math, let's consider standard values for new home construction that result in a value of 15 BTU/hr/sqft of heat loss. Convert this to kw and you'll need to spend about 0.0045kw/h for every square foot of tile. Since the system is capable of providing about 3x that, your thermostat will need cycle on and off in order to maintain a constant temperature. In short, while the system is rated to provide a maximum of 12.7W/sqft, it's not likely that you'll need that all the time, so the operational costs may, in fact, be quite lower. I estimate it to be about 1/3rd of the cost calculated in the video but I'd love to hear from anyone who has real-world numbers to share.
Just a comment regarding the 8hrs. Even though you have the thermostat scheduled for 8hrs (eg. 6-9am and 5-10pm), the system may not actually be running 100% of those 8hrs. Depending on the temperature you have your floor set at, the thermostat usually cycles the power/heat on and off to maintain the desired floor temperature. We have our floors set to 82F when it's on which is plenty warm in my opinion and out of the 5.5hrs that it's scheduled to be on, it's only really heating about 3.5hrs of that time.
I just did 64sqft including the shower( something they don’t recommend with the same wire), and my numbers are similar. If you are doing a new build or a significant remodel there might be some efficiencies on the electrical costs. The electrician also needs to know the product and have a megaohm meter to check the wire at each step of installation. Not cheap, my Fluke was $600. My only struggle is the membrane and the memory effect in the roll, it wants to lift near the edges, otherwise I also think it’s a great product. I only time it for 3 hrs in morning and 3 hrs at night, and only during the cooler months. It has spoiled my girlfriend, I don ‘t think she would allow me NOT to use it on the next remodel. Keep up the great vids Isaac. 👍
You get quite a lot of apartments here in the Netherlands which are now being built with heated floors being the only source of heating in the house. Combined with high energy efficiency e.g. double glazing etc, it makes for a very cozy economical home.
Great breakdown on cost of this system. Totally impractical if you are in PG&E or Southern California Edison serviced areas. My PG&E elec rate is .41/kW! Have to go with pex water system
the guy is right....I spent 10yrs in S.Korea and there floor heat is part of Korea...and it truly well living...it is worth to spend the money on it...Koreans use hotwater though vs. wires...
Isaac huge fan of your channel and your profession. I am in the HVAC industry and work for a wholesale supplier , I think it would be great for you to look at Viega products for in floor and also plumbing products. Great company and the leader in press fittings. Also good to note is on -in floor systems ( hydronic system) one stat can control several zones. The industry now has 96% efficient combi boilers - for both heating the home and for the hot water side on appliances.
Well Done Coach. One Thing that needs to be considered, especially in Warm Climates is the Fact that You'll be warming the Floor and the Room And at the same Time Cooling the Airspace, with Your Air Conditioner, which would tend to Add to Your Energy Cost. Not that I wouldn't be Giving a Thumbs Down to Ditra Heat being installed in the Bathroom and Even the Master Bedroom But I think it needs to be Said...
Isaac, try the Suntouch thermostats, I believe most Home Depot's carry them but they are much nicer then the Schluter ones. They also come with a sensor of their own, plus the one from the Schluter heat cable so you get to install a spare. Suntouch tstat with wifi is still only about $220
Isaac, thank you for your thorough presentation. I am planning to remodel our basement entertainment room. The original room design included a thermostatically controlled gas fireplace which is at the end of its recommended life. We also have forced air gas heating being pushed down from the ceiling. While the ambiance of the fireplace was nice the space it occupied was awkward. A heated floor system most likely will be cheaper to install, operate and leave more living space.
Thank you for your valuable insights. So good of you to share!! You are a great coach!!! Also, if your wife is happy with this form of home heating I am going to follow suit 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Again THANK YOU!!!
Did two myself so my cost is nowhere near this. Ditra heat membrane is a little over $3/ft2 at HD. I have used Danfoss cable and it fits perfectly in the Ditra membrane about $2/ft2 at SupplyHouse. Use a Honeywell floor heat Tstat for about $110. In a shower need to use Kerdi so that adds a little. Did them both in my house so no need for an electrician. In a master shower I would highly recommend. Nice to walk onto a warm floor first thing in the morning!
I'm am electrical contractor and I'd say the detra heat membrane is great but the cable/thermostat price is crazy. For around 75 sq.ft. I pay around $120 for the cable and $110 for a programmable digital thermostat. So $230 Canadian. So $175 usd.
thanks for this. My Hubby and I will be putting in a legal apartment in our basement in Canada. We want our tenants to be comfortable. I appreciate your break down.
Guess I'm old school. I put in a 2000W 240V $100 Cadet wall heater and 4 pole thermostat into a 96 sq. ft. bathroom (overkill). Placed it such that it blows toasty warm air towards the towel rack and sink. I turn in on, hop in the shower, and it's like a sauna when I get out while having turned itself off already. Runs mere minutes/day.
Did Nu Heat throughout. Benefits: ditched central heating and gas, gained space used for ducting we no longer needed, heat is passive so doesn't dry out the air, cause your feet are warm thermostat can be lower, and biggest benefit was our energy bill without gas was 40% lower. Even changed to electric hot water on demand which also dropped our electric bill another 30% - no hot water tank.
My cousin who does tile applications and wood floors ONLY uses Schluter Systems under his tile work!! He says they are the best and he’s tried them all. Best for floor underlayment and for shower buildout. Having the cable inside the channels also protects the cables from damage which laying it on top of underlayment does not. Schluter looked much more substantial than the other channeled brand he showed. I have found after enduring the building of a house and doing 3 different house remodels cheaper is NEVER better. You get what you pay for. Like Mike Holmes says “do it right the first time”.
I go to my local electrical supplier. There i get the same thermostats as Schluter minus the little logo in the corner, I get the same ditra heat mat but it comes blue not Orange and a custom made cable to length within a day or two tops! All for about half the price of Schluter. Pure extra profit! Same if not better warranty if that even means anything.
So I can custom size the wiring for a room that way? Do I need an extra thermostat if I want 250sq feet, or 280 sq feet of heated flooring? Can I heat walls instead of floors this way? Any idea of how long this system should/can be operational before it needs to be replaced? Does it make sense to heat room perimeters ( perhaps from the walls out to 5 or 6 feet, as opposed to heating the entire floor, or a large centered section of the floor? ( living alone I have some trouble with the idea of heating my entire residence. If there was a family living here then heating the house would make more sense to me. If heating a bedroom can you give a rough idea of how long it would/might take to heat a bedroom from 50 degrees to 75 degrees, with 225 sq feet? Would I turn the heat off all day and only turn it on for a few hours before retiring and/or rising in the morning? Or leave it on all day due to the length of time to get the room to tempeture? Thanks in advance for any additional info you can provide!
@@paulortiz8063 - yes from A supplier like mine they would custom make the wire to the size of the room. You only need one thermostat per room that would be installed with heated floor. A master bedroom would have its own thermostat and the ensuite bathroom would have to have its own thermostat . Both rooms would have to be wired separately for the floors. It would not make sense to only heat the perimeter of a room or the centre. Do the whole room or don't do it at all. You can program the thermostat to keep a consistent heat all or to only heat at certain times a day. Can be set to just warm the floor so it feels good on your feet or warm enough to heat the room and be completely comfortable. You can enter informations like the cost of per kilowatt-hour and the thermostat will tell you the cost per day to run. Very efficient The system would last forever, only thing that would burn out is the thermostat sensor. Two should be installed when installing heating cable. Schluter only provides one in there kits my supplier provides to. I yet to hear of a sensor failing.
I've been using NuHeat for over 20 years now. I prefer the mat over the strand. Customers love it and had never had any issues and it's far more affordable than the Schluter system. Just wondering if you've ever had any experience with NuHeat? It's all I reccomend, anymore.
One thing in the wattage calcs. Since the cable is sold in specific lengths it doesn't specifically vary by sq footage but in steps and it depends if you're installing for heat or warmed tile in terms of cable density per SQ foot/wattage a sq foot. My install in a home with hydronic towel rack and warmed tile at shower and vanity on a programmed schedule consumes very little compared to the same bathroom using the floor as the heater.
great helpful video. But there are plenty of lower cost nonSchluter heating systems like Warmall for less. I put in my last house spare bath for $300 all in, and doing it again in a week for maybe 400 all in. Also the wattage is just for when the element is running. Most of the time it is off waiting for the thermostat to turn it on again. a 400 watt rated system is really only gong to cost a couple dollars a month to heat a kitchen or master bathroom, like running a few incandescent light bulbs part time. Heck my Tesla only costs $25 a month to keep charged up at home. My big hot tub costs more like 40 a month though that is outside in Canadian winter.
I wonder about the 8 hours a day of run time. I find I can turn on my floor heat and get from 63 to 73 in 15 minutes. I really dont think they run 8 hours a day.
Thanks for the video! Warm wire (and heat matrix mat) is what I use the most, and install 10-15 systems per year. Last year I installed a couple of 400-500 sf systems, and had to split them in to several zones (and supply a relay). Two years ago we installed a warm wire in a Master bathroom and the client had us install it everywhere (as in the entire floor, tub deck, curb, shower pan floor, bench and walls of the shower....she didn't want to touch cold tile anywhere). Also, the electrician always does the hooking up on our projects and I always install an additional temperature sensor (as a back up). May I ask what type of licence one has for tile installation in your area? Here in Colorado there aren't any credential requirements, though most guys will carry a liability policy. Also, some of the cities require a shower pan "flood test", but most of the counties don't...so not a lot of oversight.
One other (unrelated) thought on heated floors, I have often had clients want me to install an "off the shelf" heat mat from Home Depot in the center of the room, as the often assume that it will be adequate to heat the entire floor. I always talk them in to custom or not at all, as I have heard too many complaints from clients having "cold spots" in floors that were installed with out full coverage..
First off - great video. The best I've seen on this subject. Also a great reply to Super Afranks on the Contractors license requirements in CA. As a GC I've looked into this quite a bit for my Clients. One thing to note is that slab on grade electric floor heating is VERY inefficient. This is even more so in California (I live here also) because there is no insulation under the slab like is used (or should be) in colder areas of the country. Since the slab is directly on the ground, by some estimates, the slab soaks up up to 70% of the heat generated by the cables. Basically you are heating the ground under your house - which is virtually impossible. Yes, it feels great on your feet. Yes, you will heat the air in that room to an extent. But the cost to heat the air is MUCH more than the cost to use your HVAC unit with natural gas (which is used almost exclusively in my area). As an example, my entire house gas bill goes up about $40-$50 a month in the winter (southern California). Compare that to the cost for the 225 SF in your example. I'm not saying that it is not worth it. I'm just saying that the savings on heating the overall house (or even in these individual rooms) is minuscule. The way to go for in floor radiant heating is definitely not electric like others have noted in the comments. The possible exception might be if you have the $$ to invest in a solar system that is sized for this kind of heating - which would be quite large for a 1500+ SF house.
@@TileCoach Hi Isaac. About 10-12 years ago I had Clients who wanted heated floors in their master bathroom. It was before Ditra Heat or at least before I had heard about it. I talked to the local Rep for the system I was looking at. I don't remember the name of the product. The Rep said that going over an uninsulated slab was so inefficient that he recommended a particular insulated panel with a built-in radiant barrier. It was 7/8" thick before the thinset to adhere it and before the thinset to float over the wires. The added height was around 1 1/4" before tile. The Clients didn't want to have that much of a step into their bathroom so they decided against doing any heated floors at all. At least the Rep was honest enough to let me know instead of just trying to sell his product.
6:35 this is incorrect. For the same power output current draw will be cut in half with a 240v system vs 120. Also, 3 wire is not required for a 240v system. (The 3rd wire is used for some 240v appliances if they need both 120v and 240v in the same appliance)
Thank you Isaac. Planning on having a master shower added to our 2nd floor bedroom. I don't believe adding a forced air vent is a viable option. Your video gives me some ballpark $ for planning and what company for the heating system.
Canadian Maritimer here. I have had 2 homes with infloor hotwater radiant homes heated by electric on demand boiler. Would not have any other heating systems due to the efficiency, warmth and ease of care associated with these systems. I had a 3 story home with concrete subfloors throughout and feel the construction costs were reasonable and payback was through low maintenance, low heating costs and increased resale value.
My gf has cost prices .bought heated floor kit for 25 foot sq for 250$ and i did it myself .plugged 1 extra sensor to be safe and did the job better than 80% contractors cause i took my time . yes its worth it !!!!
Heated floors are wonderful. What about a hydronic heated floor? My boiler (in Michigan) has a second set of coils that were meant to heat the driveway, but if I add on, they'll go to heat the slab of the addition.
I'm gutting my tiny master bath and incorporating a same size walk-in closet sometime next year. The small south facing window will be 4X larger. I debated on solar warmth gained through the floor massing vs how much ditra would block this. Well, the sun hasn't been out in 3 days and it's 38* this morning, so who cares. Thanks for the info, and luckily, there's already 220 ran to an electric heater that's coming out.
Great video. I'm new to Ditra heat and this answers a lot of questions. My plan is to heat a 700 sq ft insulated workshop and my kwh is just 8.5 cents.
I just looked we’re at .0685 cents per kWh in Portland. We export a lot of power to Cali so it makes sense. It’s cheaper yet if you live in the gorge and switch to wind energy.
Buying a house with a heated floor.. And the piles in the house we want to change.. But is there a possibility that we can put piles on piles without demolishing the old piles without loosing the heating?
Wow! Thanks for this breakdown. Was looking to use heated floors in our current remodel. I won’t be using this method. If you’re familiar with it, Can you do a review on radiant heat flooring?
This is a well thought out video. You did plenty of research. Thank you. You have 2 math mistakes which you might want to put a bubble on when they appear. The membrane is $290 for one, or $580 for 2 (not $480). Also, you have a small mistake at the cost per day: .11 x 8 = .88 (not .89). I'm not a math teacher, and I don't care about these mistakes, but if you might want to correct it. Again, thank you very much for the video!! I have electric heat in my bath. It's wonderful.
Hi Isaac, Amazing work once again! Truly enjoy your videos. One thing to consider when determining kw costs are "tier" pricing. Your costs of .11 cents per kw is based on the lowest tier which unfortunately will not be what you actually pay (unless you are ONLY using the bathroom heating as a source of your house's entire energy use). In central California the tier price easily hits .32 per kw. I don't know if the US average that you used has tier pricing. I suppose it depends on the provider.
This is one of the most expensive ways to heat a tile floor, either of those systems with the underlayment and wire you are paying for the companies R&D and their name. For small to medium bathrooms they make electric mats that will do the job way cheaper. My problem with theses systems is that in the North East you basically leave it run all winter, it is cheaper in the bitter cold to maintain the heat then to keep warming and letting it cool, and with that kind of use it is not a matter of if, but when it will have problems, and short of a thermostat there are no easy fixes. I have a combination boiler tankless water heater, so two birds one stone, the bathrooms and kitchen have heated tile floors and the rest is vintage radiators (personal choice). NOW I will say that to do radiant water for 1 floor is stupid, but in my case the house was a remodel and I needed a furnace as well as remodeling, and running pex lines and creating manifolds etc etc was easier then putting in new duct work I also gained sqft by being able to take out chases and bulk heads that held the duct work and now instead of a furnace and water heater that took up roughly 20sqft I have a boiler that takes up maybe half that making the utility area in the basement much smaller. Now if you are just remodeling a bathroom I can't say that replacing forced air for a boiler is smart, but if you are renovating an older house that is in need of major utility updates then this is the way to go in my opinion for a few reasons, first less pushing dust pollen and pet hair, second the retro fit is way easier especially if you dont want to take a whole house down to studs, and it is more efficient and cheaper to heat your house. Draw backs people will tell you are maintaining it, maybe in the past that is true and I won't say there is NO maintenance, but it is easy enough and no more involved than changing your filters. The other is cost, again maybe at one time, for me the Combi Boiler, pex, manifolds, barbs and collars, radiators (which you can get way cheaper than I payed) was just under $14,000, add in another $1000 for Drywall repairs moving some electrical taking out the old duct work, etc you are looking at a bout 15k to retro fit an entire house IF you can take on the majority of the work yourself. My case I could do it all but the gas hook ups which my state requires someone from the gas company to hook up and inspect, that was like $150. To get all the work done you can be safe to add another 6 to 8 grand . The estimate I got to do a new furnace and do the duct work correctly so my house would be warm without the furnace running every 20mins was $27,000 and I can't really do any of that work myself, figuring out diameters of ducts and flow rates, etc etc, is best left to a pro HVAC guy or gal.
100 meters of cable for 20 $ online, when cut to 5m at 330ohm can produce overall 1750W at 240V, I think if good. These prices are ridiculous. Simple thermostats cost 14$.
Wow. I bought a heat matt on sale for 75$ for 2 2x4 matts. Doing it myself. Just saw this looking for a thermostat, as I think over 200 for a thermostat is ridiculous. I just need a dual probe thermostat. Couldn't care less if my phone connects to it. I can turn it up and down manually. A dial works, I don't need digital. I just want something that won't break. I will hire an electrician to hook up the electric, but all else is pretty simple.
The previous owners of my apartment installed floor heating in the bathroom. It’s insanely expensive to use and I’ve only used it a couple of times at wintertime. I’m sure it’s great in a house but it’s just unnecessary in an apartment building situation in the capital of Denmark.
your the tile expert, how can labor for tile only be $500? i am a GC and my tile guy charges me that amount per day and a typical 80sft takes 2-3 days and runs me in the range of 100-1500. am i getting over charged? idk $500 seems low. maybe you can help me understand. thx
Nevermind heated tile bathrooms, can you use this on a concrete slab house? My living area is on a concrete slab and the carpeting on top of the slab. Very cold in the winter months (I live in NJ). I was told very expensive to install heated floors whether we replace carpeting or go with hardwood floors.
Thanks for the information. I appreciate it. I want to replace a back porch with a bathroom with heated flooring. We are in the north east usa. Gets well below freezing. Underneath this bathroom it is unheated. Is it worth it? And will the heated tile flooring help keep the water lines from freezing? Thanks for any input you can give me on this
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A license to set tile? Wtf?
@@TileCoachI guess that explains why there's so many homeless people in California. My grandpa used to say he could make a living with a spoon. He would need a license now to bend it into a ring. Thanks for your response.
Isaac Ostrom Az too , i think most states require a license after a certain dollar amount
I'm not sure what to say. I was an apprentice in a lot of trades. But the amount of hours required working as a slave to take a test is done on purpose. I'm grateful for the knowledge, but if a person can do things themselves and pass inspection, screw all that BS. This is exactly why things cost so much. Government sucks the wind from everyone's sails.
@@SuperAfranks "Government [is bad]."
NO. In this case, the government is there to make the incompetent and unscrupulous think twice before scamming innocent dupes (not you of course), something the "free market" cannot compensate for.
@@SuperAfranks I think any licensing should be based on a knowledge/skill demonstration and that required hours should be eliminated.
3 years later and this is one of the best videos out there for understanding radiant heat flooring. Thank you so much!!
Nice video. We installed our own heated floor, before the tile work. Just a small area in front of the vanity and toilet. About 15 Sq Ft to keep the feet warm and heat a small bathroom.
$500 or so material cost. I did it myself - a few hours each day for 2 days.
Materials:
Thermosoft mat, Honeywell GFI Thermostat, 20 amp dedicated circuit (bathroom is very close to the main panel), Sensor and backup sensor, staple gun, and Self-Leveling Cement (to protect the mat/wires).
Process:
- Quick coating of any waterproof membrane on subfloor (for SLC to adhere)
- seal gaps where slc would run using spray foam, etc
- Staple mat down
- Install thermostat, circuit, and sensor (1 primary , 1 backup - backup is not connected to thermostat - just leave wires there in case first sensor fails).
- Protect mat & wires with thin layer of SLC
Note: SLC is optional but Very Smart. Otherwise, the tile guy can nick/cut the heating wires or sensor wires. That would be BAD. Spend a few bucks and protect it with SLC - and the floor will be fast, easy, flat and level = perfect lippage.
First let me say that I appreciate your videos more than you can ever know. The time and effort you put into making these videos must be enormous, much more than what we see. The passion you have for your job shows. Today was the first time I've watched this video regarding underfloor heat, and I had to laugh, because, $290 + $290 does not equal $480, its $580. But there again, you seem like the kind of guy that would always come down on the customer side. (SMILE) Thanks again for your passion.
Best heat ever! After I super insulated my attic and under my floor I installed a warm electric heated floor and it is awesome. Especially since it is powered by renewably powered electricity from my roof top solar PV system.
AARON! please text me! We have the solar panels but we haven't figured out the whole where to store the batteries...we simply have questions... were almost finished painting and we need to get a move on the floors. Ordering and getting what we need, so we can start already!!! Thank you. Om at 720 828 1202
@@Suzyston My SunPower solar PV system is grid connected. So I export electricity seamlessly during sunny days and at night my house imports electricity from the grid.
I have a light switch on my thermal mass electric floor heating slab. It is then plugged into the wall socket. When switched off the floor emits even, constant and silent heat for 8 hours before needing more electricity.
My 3' x 9' unit cost around $1,000 in materials. On the hardwood floor I laid down an R6 layer of tinfoil foam board, then 2 layers of concrete board, then a 3" perimeter layer. Inside I rolled out the electric heating serpentining $300 mat. With a stapler I made it flat as possible and filled it will grout. I then placed another layer of concrete board and then tiled it completely.
I recommend we focus on high insulation in all perimeter walls, floor and attic. New windows are nice but not really necessary. Thin flim plastic works really well. R35 floors are necessary along with R100 attics. You will feel an immediate increase in comfort.
I dug out the crawlspace under the whole house over two winters. By allowing 2 feet of wiggle room I installed R29 batts of recycled glass up between the 10 inch floor joists. They fit perfectly. But to hold them up I plated the underside with 1" R6 tinfoil foam insulation using 2" screws and large washers. I then can spray foamed the seams, cut even and sealed everything with the aluminum tape forming an R35 plate of insulation under the whole footprint under the house.
For solar PV and batteries, I say start small and add batteries and solar panels as needed in off grid applications.
One 100 watt solar PV panel in cloudy northwest winter will give you 3 hours of LED 8 watt light. 600 watts of solar PV will power tools. But anything with heat...no go. Your inverter will beep beep immediately.
Perhaps with an electric vehicle and off grid large batteries we can have off grid electric heated floors too.
I think for off grid heat one needs high insulation then wood heat, liquid heated floor plus electric heating...with a growing solar PV rack. So after the batteries are full the extra electricity is directly into heat in the floor.
Hope this helped.
Thank you for the breakdown. I'm also glad to see people chime in with additional thoughts and even some corrections. That's what makes RUclips so valuable. Some brave soul starts the conversation and some other people further the discussion.
I'm going to chime in too: the cost is exactly as you said "running hours", time when the thermostat calls for heat, not time when the system is enabled.
Insulation below the slab (assuming you're installing on a slab) can vary from none at all to R30 and all points in between. Mainly this, but also the overall efficiency of the home, will vary the run time and the subsequent operating costs. That being so variable, I'm glad you presented it as running hours because anything else would be a hazardous guess. Great job!
One slight correction: the electrician would run 12/2 for either area. There is no neutral needed for a 20A 2 pole circuit, unless the system uses a 120v control circuit or motor, as in the case of an electric range or clothes dryer, respectively.
Video autoplayed on me... I'm glad I am able to do this kind of work myself. Everyone who wants nice things but isn't rich should learn some DIY skills. I did 80sqft for about $400 - no contractors. The only Schluter stuff I bought that was the Ditra-Heat membrane because Schluter is hollier than thou... You can get safe reliable wire, sensors, and thermostats for a fraction of the price from other manufacturers.
Great video! A few years ago I did a heated tile floor in my washroom; its awesome. Decided to not heat my kitchen floor and I regret it. Its not feasable to tear up the tiles just to put back heated floor now. Live and Learn
First off, love the videos, always very helpful. Just a little math point, 2 x 290 for the larger membrane is 580 rather than the 480 that you've put :)
Saw that too...lol
Me too. But all good we still love your videos! But I won't be asking you for financial advise! Lol. Have a great holiday everyone
Have to use both your ears, in the beginning he did say that as you purchases larger systems it becomes more cost effective. Therefore 480 is more cost effective than 580 as it should be ;)
Saw that too. I know laticrete sells strata mat in 2 sizes 150sqft and 323 sqft or something like that and the bigger roll is cheaper. I suppose schleuter has something similas
@@ianh7133 so what’s the reasoning behind 11x8=89 cents?
I did it in Northern Wisconsin in the kitchen where I spend a lot of time, and in the bathrooms. It makes it much easier to feel comfortable in a place with no basement. With a basenent, your furnace in the basement and heat runs below the first floor keep it warm. Because we have at least a half month of well below zero temps, I knew as we age the comfort will make it worth the expense. If I didn't have the money to do the kitchen, I woukd still try to do the baths.
Hey there. Also in Wisconsin, just bought first home. Can you point me in a direction to a distributor?
Excellent Video Isaac. I'm a GC myself and this is brought up just about every time I remodel a bath. Funny thing is I was just talking to my wife about this yesterday when we kicked on our Schluter heated floors for the first time this winter after remodeling our master bath this spring. I'm totally jealous of your Kwh rates in Roseville. Here in Antioch CA we are at 24 cents
I love my electric radiant bathroom floor heat. It is the best thing I've ever done to my home. I have helped several friends install it in their bathroom remodels. Nobody regrets it. Everybody loves it.
We have had our Ditra floor installed for two years now under slate tile in our family room and have loved it. We would absolutely install it again. Our thermostat will even tell us how much electricity we have used. Would not have stone or tile floors without the heated floors. We put it in the laundry room too. It will also go into the bedroom bathroom when we remodel those rooms. If you can afford it it is worth it.
I have forced hot air heat in my condo currently. But I will soon be installing my primary heat system with electric flooring mats or cables.
As a retired person what better use of my money than to make myself comfortable in my own home? (Yes, I donate money to worthy causes, too!) But the issue for me is the noise from the furnace cycling on and off. It drives me bananas!!! And it blows dust everywhere.
Yes, I know there are 2 cycle furnaces but then there is still the dust issue! Even with the best filters I can find, which are about $30 a piece, dust, dust, dust. So electric heating seems ideal.
Now if I can figure out the a/c issues I'll really be a Very happy person! 🤗
can the electric. chilled water in a hydronic system. raz
We are in upstate New york. I pay 13 cents per kilowatt. We have a living room dining room and hallway ditra heat under vinyl tile planks. Over 700 sq ft. Using 240... it's only using 3 KW hours per day and it runs 24/7. (Vinyl flooring does not hold the heat.)
Ceramic Tile floor is much warmer and a better suited as we have that installed in our kitchen...
But the material and labor savings using the vinyl tile over ceramic tile... it's so cheap to run.. we're glad we used vinyl tile...
Last thing I would recommend you use the company Warmly Yours. You get a much more even heat distribution but it's much more labor intensive to install... We have both systems in our house..
I did my kitchen floor, insulation, heating matt, latex then tile. I found even without heating on it was much warmer than before because of the insulation, you can really notice the difference as the next room hasn't been done yet and it's freezing I tested it with the kitchen floor heating off for two weeks, walking between the two was massively different.
I'm a newbie attempting to do my bathroom floor. Can you tell me more about the layers please? Thank you!
Hmm.. the insulation alone would definible make a difference good to know my kitchen floor is a mother foker cold stone anytime of the year
What would you say is the temp difference is between the rooms?
Ive done these type of floors. And the methods and cost can vary... But a factor that is not calculable in monetary terms, is quality of the floor radiant heat.... It is fantastic. I would highly recommend
In Canada electricity is insane. But if I were building a new home or advising a client I would 100% go with heated floors via hot water system for entire home along with walls and ceiling spray foam. So efficient and really the cost difference these days is fairly small.
Till you get a leak . Like vampire taps on a ice maker
For operational costs, we must first figure out how many kw will be required and that requires a heat loss calculation for the space. You can actually use the R-rating of the walls, ceilings and floors, together with U-values for any windows, and figure out the heat that will be lost (and thus needs to be replaced) in BTU per hour per square foot. For easy math, let's consider standard values for new home construction that result in a value of 15 BTU/hr/sqft of heat loss. Convert this to kw and you'll need to spend about 0.0045kw/h for every square foot of tile. Since the system is capable of providing about 3x that, your thermostat will need cycle on and off in order to maintain a constant temperature. In short, while the system is rated to provide a maximum of 12.7W/sqft, it's not likely that you'll need that all the time, so the operational costs may, in fact, be quite lower. I estimate it to be about 1/3rd of the cost calculated in the video but I'd love to hear from anyone who has real-world numbers to share.
I wonder if running it on solar is completely out of question, because if it is, that will be the law , in California..
😂
Just a comment regarding the 8hrs. Even though you have the thermostat scheduled for 8hrs (eg. 6-9am and 5-10pm), the system may not actually be running 100% of those 8hrs. Depending on the temperature you have your floor set at, the thermostat usually cycles the power/heat on and off to maintain the desired floor temperature. We have our floors set to 82F when it's on which is plenty warm in my opinion and out of the 5.5hrs that it's scheduled to be on, it's only really heating about 3.5hrs of that time.
I just did 64sqft including the shower( something they don’t recommend with the same wire), and my numbers are similar. If you are doing a new build or a significant remodel there might be some efficiencies on the electrical costs. The electrician also needs to know the product and have a megaohm meter to check the wire at each step of installation. Not cheap, my Fluke was $600. My only struggle is the membrane and the memory effect in the roll, it wants to lift near the edges, otherwise I also think it’s a great product. I only time it for 3 hrs in morning and 3 hrs at night, and only during the cooler months. It has spoiled my girlfriend, I don ‘t think she would allow me NOT to use it on the next remodel. Keep up the great vids Isaac. 👍
Great video! Best explanation I’ve seen so far.
Thank-you so much for understanding the idea of material cost and installation and heat usage. Thank-you!
You get quite a lot of apartments here in the Netherlands which are now being built with heated floors being the only source of heating in the house. Combined with high energy efficiency e.g. double glazing etc, it makes for a very cozy economical home.
What is “double glazing”?
@@monicadub5280 common windows with insulated glass.
Great breakdown on cost of this system. Totally impractical if you are in PG&E or Southern California Edison serviced areas. My PG&E elec rate is .41/kW! Have to go with pex water system
Thank you for this interesting, transparent and honest breakdown of costs.
I'm in Northern California as well. Tonight felt like the first cold night!! great video as always.
Me too.
It is soooo cold!!! Brrrrrr!!!!
I’m laughing right now those aren’t even cold temps
Eduardo Bermudez I don’t know if you’re being rude or not lol. But I’m from California so 30 degrees is cold for me.
the guy is right....I spent 10yrs in S.Korea and there floor heat is part of Korea...and it truly well living...it is worth to spend the money on it...Koreans use hotwater though vs. wires...
Isaac huge fan of your channel and your profession. I am in the HVAC industry and work for a wholesale supplier , I think it would be great for you to look at Viega products for in floor and also plumbing products. Great company and the leader in press fittings. Also good to note is on -in floor systems ( hydronic system) one stat can control several zones.
The industry now has 96% efficient combi boilers - for both heating the home and for the hot water side on appliances.
Well Done Coach. One Thing that needs to be considered, especially in Warm Climates is the Fact that You'll be warming the Floor and the Room And at the same Time Cooling the Airspace, with Your Air Conditioner, which would tend to Add to Your Energy Cost. Not that I wouldn't be Giving a Thumbs Down to Ditra Heat being installed in the Bathroom and Even the Master Bedroom But I think it needs to be Said...
Isaac, try the Suntouch thermostats, I believe most Home Depot's carry them but they are much nicer then the Schluter ones. They also come with a sensor of their own, plus the one from the Schluter heat cable so you get to install a spare. Suntouch tstat with wifi is still only about $220
Isaac, thank you for your thorough presentation. I am planning to remodel our basement entertainment room. The original room design included a thermostatically controlled gas fireplace which is at the end of its recommended life. We also have forced air gas heating being pushed down from the ceiling. While the ambiance of the fireplace was nice the space it occupied was awkward. A heated floor system most likely will be cheaper to install, operate and leave more living space.
Thank you for your valuable insights.
So good of you to share!!
You are a great coach!!!
Also, if your wife is happy with this form of home heating I am going to follow suit 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Again THANK YOU!!!
Did two myself so my cost is nowhere near this. Ditra heat membrane is a little over $3/ft2 at HD. I have used Danfoss cable and it fits perfectly in the Ditra membrane about $2/ft2 at SupplyHouse. Use a Honeywell floor heat Tstat for about $110. In a shower need to use Kerdi so that adds a little. Did them both in my house so no need for an electrician.
In a master shower I would highly recommend. Nice to walk onto a warm floor first thing in the morning!
I'm am electrical contractor and I'd say the detra heat membrane is great but the cable/thermostat price is crazy. For around 75 sq.ft. I pay around $120 for the cable and $110 for a programmable digital thermostat. So $230 Canadian. So $175 usd.
but the cost of our hydro is more expensive...so he's probably right. as of 2020: Off-peak10.1 ¢/kWh.
Mid-peak14.4 ¢/kWh.
On-peak20.8 ¢/kWh.
Nuheat system!!41 btu's.Customers love it here in cold Pa.
Ive gotta give you a standing ovation for your videos. You hit everything it seems like
thanks for this. My Hubby and I will be putting in a legal apartment in our basement in Canada. We want our tenants to be comfortable. I appreciate your break down.
Your videos are greatly appreciated. It is inspirational when someone is truly trying to improve the world around them. Thank You.
$13 a sqft covers the cost of infloor heat. That includes the wire, thermostats mats, mud and labor. Tile and grout supplied my customer.
In what state? That's far too cheap for a heated floor buddy
I have a heated floor in my shower. It gets heated by the hot water falling to the floor. Simple, cost effective, always works...
That's smart, good job 👍😊
Guess I'm old school. I put in a 2000W 240V $100 Cadet wall heater and 4 pole thermostat into a 96 sq. ft. bathroom (overkill). Placed it such that it blows toasty warm air towards the towel rack and sink. I turn in on, hop in the shower, and it's like a sauna when I get out while having turned itself off already. Runs mere minutes/day.
madcow usa Bingo!
That was an awsome video for doe of us that also install tile. Very informative! Thanks
Thank you for the analysis. Some of the numbers are a little off. For membrane, $290 + $290 = $580, not $490 for the 225 sq ft.
why would he use exactly double for more than 3 times the area? bulk pricing
Your killing it! Thanks for the vids!
Did Nu Heat throughout. Benefits: ditched central heating and gas, gained space used for ducting we no longer needed, heat is passive so doesn't dry out the air, cause your feet are warm thermostat can be lower, and biggest benefit was our energy bill without gas was 40% lower. Even changed to electric hot water on demand which also dropped our electric bill another 30% - no hot water tank.
My cousin who does tile applications and wood floors ONLY uses Schluter Systems under his tile work!! He says they are the best and he’s tried them all. Best for floor underlayment and for shower buildout. Having the cable inside the channels also protects the cables from damage which laying it on top of underlayment does not. Schluter looked much more substantial than the other channeled brand he showed. I have found after enduring the building of a house and doing 3 different house remodels cheaper is NEVER better. You get what you pay for. Like Mike Holmes says “do it right the first time”.
Thanks Isaac. This is extremely valuable.
I go to my local electrical supplier. There i get the same thermostats as Schluter minus the little logo in the corner, I get the same ditra heat mat but it comes blue not Orange and a custom made cable to length within a day or two tops!
All for about half the price of Schluter.
Pure extra profit! Same if not better warranty if that even means anything.
So I can custom size the wiring for a room that way?
Do I need an extra thermostat if I want 250sq feet, or 280 sq feet of heated flooring?
Can I heat walls instead of floors this way?
Any idea of how long this system should/can be operational before it needs to be replaced?
Does it make sense to heat room perimeters ( perhaps from the walls out to 5 or 6 feet, as opposed to heating the entire floor, or a large centered section of the floor? ( living alone I have some trouble with the idea of heating my entire residence. If there was a family living here then heating the house would make more sense to me.
If heating a bedroom can you give a rough idea of how long it would/might take to heat a bedroom from 50 degrees to 75 degrees, with 225 sq feet?
Would I turn the heat off all day and only turn it on for a few hours before retiring and/or rising in the morning? Or leave it on all day due to the length of time to get the room to tempeture?
Thanks in advance for any additional info you can provide!
@@paulortiz8063 - yes from A supplier like mine they would custom make the wire to the size of the room.
You only need one thermostat per room that would be installed with heated floor. A master bedroom would have its own thermostat and the ensuite bathroom would have to have its own thermostat . Both rooms would have to be wired separately for the floors.
It would not make sense to only heat the perimeter of a room or the centre. Do the whole room or don't do it at all. You can program the thermostat to keep a consistent heat all or to only heat at certain times a day. Can be set to just warm the floor so it feels good on your feet or warm enough to heat the room and be completely comfortable. You can enter informations like the cost of per kilowatt-hour and the thermostat will tell you the cost per day to run. Very efficient
The system would last forever, only thing that would burn out is the thermostat sensor. Two should be installed when installing heating cable. Schluter only provides one in there kits my supplier provides to.
I yet to hear of a sensor failing.
I've been using NuHeat for over 20 years now. I prefer the mat over the strand. Customers love it and had never had any issues and it's far more affordable than the Schluter system. Just wondering if you've ever had any experience with NuHeat? It's all I reccomend, anymore.
One thing in the wattage calcs. Since the cable is sold in specific lengths it doesn't specifically vary by sq footage but in steps and it depends if you're installing for heat or warmed tile in terms of cable density per SQ foot/wattage a sq foot. My install in a home with hydronic towel rack and warmed tile at shower and vanity on a programmed schedule consumes very little compared to the same bathroom using the floor as the heater.
great helpful video. But there are plenty of lower cost nonSchluter heating systems like Warmall for less. I put in my last house spare bath for $300 all in, and doing it again in a week for maybe 400 all in. Also the wattage is just for when the element is running. Most of the time it is off waiting for the thermostat to turn it on again. a 400 watt rated system is really only gong to cost a couple dollars a month to heat a kitchen or master bathroom, like running a few incandescent light bulbs part time. Heck my Tesla only costs $25 a month to keep charged up at home. My big hot tub costs more like 40 a month though that is outside in Canadian winter.
Awesome video. I just installed one of these systems for the first time and I was wondering what the cost to run it daily might be.
I wonder about the 8 hours a day of run time. I find I can turn on my floor heat and get from 63 to 73 in 15 minutes. I really dont think they run 8 hours a day.
Its been a year since this post. How about an update? Regrets? Wish you knew before things? Glorious?
Are these systems enough to hear the whole house? Or do you still need your central heating system?
My entire house has heated floors. It's the only way to go, but don't use electric, put in a boiler and hydronic tubing buried in concrete.
yeah your comment is correct , but this is a great video for already done floors
google owns you yeah in mytown it gets real chile 50 deg so a ductless 9000 btu will keep us at a normal 90 degwinter night for 2 bucks
google owns you Right on ! cold hearted dispatch and check book keeper
Trey Hart ay chihuahua ! thats cold
Edward Lahr Use a DC Element attached to PV to preheat your water prior to the boiler.
Thanks for the video! Warm wire (and heat matrix mat) is what I use the most, and install 10-15 systems per year. Last year I installed a couple of 400-500 sf systems, and had to split them in to several zones (and supply a relay). Two years ago we installed a warm wire in a Master bathroom and the client had us install it everywhere (as in the entire floor, tub deck, curb, shower pan floor, bench and walls of the shower....she didn't want to touch cold tile anywhere). Also, the electrician always does the hooking up on our projects and I always install an additional temperature sensor (as a back up).
May I ask what type of licence one has for tile installation in your area? Here in Colorado there aren't any credential requirements, though most guys will carry a liability policy. Also, some of the cities require a shower pan "flood test", but most of the counties don't...so not a lot of oversight.
One other (unrelated) thought on heated floors, I have often had clients want me to install an "off the shelf" heat mat from Home Depot in the center of the room, as the often assume that it will be adequate to heat the entire floor. I always talk them in to custom or not at all, as I have heard too many complaints from clients having "cold spots" in floors that were installed with out full coverage..
@@TileCoach Thanks for the reply!
First off - great video. The best I've seen on this subject. Also a great reply to Super Afranks on the Contractors license requirements in CA. As a GC I've looked into this quite a bit for my Clients. One thing to note is that slab on grade electric floor heating is VERY inefficient. This is even more so in California (I live here also) because there is no insulation under the slab like is used (or should be) in colder areas of the country. Since the slab is directly on the ground, by some estimates, the slab soaks up up to 70% of the heat generated by the cables. Basically you are heating the ground under your house - which is virtually impossible. Yes, it feels great on your feet. Yes, you will heat the air in that room to an extent. But the cost to heat the air is MUCH more than the cost to use your HVAC unit with natural gas (which is used almost exclusively in my area). As an example, my entire house gas bill goes up about $40-$50 a month in the winter (southern California). Compare that to the cost for the 225 SF in your example. I'm not saying that it is not worth it. I'm just saying that the savings on heating the overall house (or even in these individual rooms) is minuscule. The way to go for in floor radiant heating is definitely not electric like others have noted in the comments. The possible exception might be if you have the $$ to invest in a solar system that is sized for this kind of heating - which would be quite large for a 1500+ SF house.
@@TileCoach Hi Isaac. About 10-12 years ago I had Clients who wanted heated floors in their master bathroom. It was before Ditra Heat or at least before I had heard about it. I talked to the local Rep for the system I was looking at. I don't remember the name of the product. The Rep said that going over an uninsulated slab was so inefficient that he recommended a particular insulated panel with a built-in radiant barrier. It was 7/8" thick before the thinset to adhere it and before the thinset to float over the wires. The added height was around 1 1/4" before tile. The Clients didn't want to have that much of a step into their bathroom so they decided against doing any heated floors at all. At least the Rep was honest enough to let me know instead of just trying to sell his product.
Laticrete wire is not rated to go vertical, ditra wire is. Helps to know if your running a bench and floor in a shower.
I'm in so. Cal, but I grew up in that area. My daughter lives in Rocklin. Great informative video.
Isaac, thank you for your excellent videos. Keep them coming.
6:35 this is incorrect. For the same power output current draw will be cut in half with a 240v system vs 120. Also, 3 wire is not required for a 240v system. (The 3rd wire is used for some 240v appliances if they need both 120v and 240v in the same appliance)
What a great resource, thank you very much for taking the time.
I’m planning on a remodel
I’ll put in floor heat in the bath just for comfort
It's like $700 kit for 60 square foot, wire, membrane and thermo
I have small rooms. What about those under rug heat pads? Are they as efficient as those dedicated systems without all the installation costs?
Thank you Isaac. Planning on having a master shower added to our 2nd floor bedroom. I don't believe adding a forced air vent is a viable option. Your video gives me some ballpark $ for planning and what company for the heating system.
Canadian Maritimer here. I have had 2 homes with infloor hotwater radiant homes heated by electric on demand boiler. Would not have any other heating systems due to the efficiency, warmth and ease of care associated with these systems. I had a 3 story home with concrete subfloors throughout and feel the construction costs were reasonable and payback was through low maintenance, low heating costs and increased resale value.
My gf has cost prices .bought heated floor kit for 25 foot sq for 250$ and i did it myself .plugged 1 extra sensor to be safe and did the job better than 80% contractors cause i took my time . yes its worth it !!!!
Great sharing. So much details about the hearing floor.
Excellent video.
So helpful!! Thanks
Heated floors are wonderful. What about a hydronic heated floor? My boiler (in Michigan) has a second set of coils that were meant to heat the driveway, but if I add on, they'll go to heat the slab of the addition.
Excellent video. I'm new to this product and concept. Very informative!
Can this same system be used for laminate and or wood floors?
Thanks!
That was thoughtful and informative.
super helpful. thanks man! NorCal!
I'm gutting my tiny master bath and incorporating a same size walk-in closet sometime next year.
The small south facing window will be 4X larger. I debated on solar warmth gained through the floor massing vs how much ditra would block this. Well, the sun hasn't been out in 3 days and it's 38* this morning, so who cares.
Thanks for the info, and luckily, there's already 220 ran to an electric heater that's coming out.
Great video. I'm new to Ditra heat and this answers a lot of questions. My plan is to heat a 700 sq ft insulated workshop and my kwh is just 8.5 cents.
What would you think about using this as the only heat source in an alaska cabin? 20*20?
I just looked we’re at .0685 cents per kWh in Portland. We export a lot of power to Cali so it makes sense. It’s cheaper yet if you live in the gorge and switch to wind energy.
Can this be used with a laminate wood floor?
Buying a house with a heated floor.. And the piles in the house we want to change.. But is there a possibility that we can put piles on piles without demolishing the old piles without loosing the heating?
Thank you for the information.
Looking at installing heated floor for my kitchen remodel. Which system is better: Strata or Schluter?
Wow! Thanks for this breakdown. Was looking to use heated floors in our current remodel. I won’t be using this method. If you’re familiar with it, Can you do a review on radiant heat flooring?
Thank you for discussing costing
This is a well thought out video. You did plenty of research. Thank you. You have 2 math mistakes which you might want to put a bubble on when they appear. The membrane is $290 for one, or $580 for 2 (not $480). Also, you have a small mistake at the cost per day: .11 x 8 = .88 (not .89). I'm not a math teacher, and I don't care about these mistakes, but if you might want to correct it. Again, thank you very much for the video!! I have electric heat in my bath. It's wonderful.
Hi Isaac, Amazing work once again! Truly enjoy your videos. One thing to consider when determining kw costs are "tier" pricing. Your costs of .11 cents per kw is based on the lowest tier which unfortunately will not be what you actually pay (unless you are ONLY using the bathroom heating as a source of your house's entire energy use). In central California the tier price easily hits .32 per kw. I don't know if the US average that you used has tier pricing. I suppose it depends on the provider.
This is one of the most expensive ways to heat a tile floor, either of those systems with the underlayment and wire you are paying for the companies R&D and their name. For small to medium bathrooms they make electric mats that will do the job way cheaper. My problem with theses systems is that in the North East you basically leave it run all winter, it is cheaper in the bitter cold to maintain the heat then to keep warming and letting it cool, and with that kind of use it is not a matter of if, but when it will have problems, and short of a thermostat there are no easy fixes. I have a combination boiler tankless water heater, so two birds one stone, the bathrooms and kitchen have heated tile floors and the rest is vintage radiators (personal choice). NOW I will say that to do radiant water for 1 floor is stupid, but in my case the house was a remodel and I needed a furnace as well as remodeling, and running pex lines and creating manifolds etc etc was easier then putting in new duct work I also gained sqft by being able to take out chases and bulk heads that held the duct work and now instead of a furnace and water heater that took up roughly 20sqft I have a boiler that takes up maybe half that making the utility area in the basement much smaller. Now if you are just remodeling a bathroom I can't say that replacing forced air for a boiler is smart, but if you are renovating an older house that is in need of major utility updates then this is the way to go in my opinion for a few reasons, first less pushing dust pollen and pet hair, second the retro fit is way easier especially if you dont want to take a whole house down to studs, and it is more efficient and cheaper to heat your house. Draw backs people will tell you are maintaining it, maybe in the past that is true and I won't say there is NO maintenance, but it is easy enough and no more involved than changing your filters. The other is cost, again maybe at one time, for me the Combi Boiler, pex, manifolds, barbs and collars, radiators (which you can get way cheaper than I payed) was just under $14,000, add in another $1000 for Drywall repairs moving some electrical taking out the old duct work, etc you are looking at a bout 15k to retro fit an entire house IF you can take on the majority of the work yourself. My case I could do it all but the gas hook ups which my state requires someone from the gas company to hook up and inspect, that was like $150. To get all the work done you can be safe to add another 6 to 8 grand . The estimate I got to do a new furnace and do the duct work correctly so my house would be warm without the furnace running every 20mins was $27,000 and I can't really do any of that work myself, figuring out diameters of ducts and flow rates, etc etc, is best left to a pro HVAC guy or gal.
100 meters of cable for 20 $ online, when cut to 5m at 330ohm can produce overall 1750W at 240V, I think if good. These prices are ridiculous. Simple thermostats cost 14$.
On the 73 square foot, was that on the overall space of the bathroom or the usable radiant floor space?
Great video. Thanks so much.
Wow. I bought a heat matt on sale for 75$ for 2 2x4 matts. Doing it myself. Just saw this looking for a thermostat, as I think over 200 for a thermostat is ridiculous. I just need a dual probe thermostat. Couldn't care less if my phone connects to it. I can turn it up and down manually. A dial works, I don't need digital. I just want something that won't break.
I will hire an electrician to hook up the electric, but all else is pretty simple.
Thanks. Good idea on costs. Am in the middle of a bathroom make over from a goat pen, so this is interesting.
The previous owners of my apartment installed floor heating in the bathroom. It’s insanely expensive to use and I’ve only used it a couple of times at wintertime. I’m sure it’s great in a house but it’s just unnecessary in an apartment building situation in the capital of Denmark.
Hej, jeg live in Sweden, Totally agree with you
Another great video! You are great man!
Can you put heated floors on concrete? Do it suck up the heat?
your the tile expert, how can labor for tile only be $500? i am a GC and my tile guy charges me that amount per day and a typical 80sft takes 2-3 days and runs me in the range of 100-1500. am i getting over charged? idk $500 seems low. maybe you can help me understand. thx
Did you include in your labor price also installation of Ditra? Thank you
Nevermind heated tile bathrooms, can you use this on a concrete slab house? My living area is on a concrete slab and the carpeting on top of the slab. Very cold in the winter months (I live in NJ). I was told very expensive to install heated floors whether we replace carpeting or go with hardwood floors.
Thanks for the information. I appreciate it. I want to replace a back porch with a bathroom with heated flooring. We are in the north east usa. Gets well below freezing. Underneath this bathroom it is unheated. Is it worth it? And will the heated tile flooring help keep the water lines from freezing? Thanks for any input you can give me on this