Seeing that colossal fel reaver appear on the horizon stomping toward you, literally shaking your screen, was f'ing amazing. TBC was the best expansion without question.
So funny. Everyone speaks about Nagrand. I love that zone but I feel hellfire is vastly underrated since it's the starting zone of tbc. It's such a cool unique environment.
@@SUNIKIGAMING HP was cool but i have a feeling that lot of people hated it just cuz how rough it was since both factions had one starting zone for outland after reaching level 60(58) that made hellfire crowded asf, people waiting and constantly battling over spawns, it was just a mess in that regard, that's proly why it isn't getting the praise it should overall
Also Enhancement Shamans gained the ability shamanistic rage which was a 2 minute cd ability that reduced dmg taken by 30% and regenerated mana equal of 30% of your attack power over 15 sec on sucessful melee hits. Which made it alot easier to have your mana last in longer fights.
@@addisonratliff6693 You're right , it was group based . I remember always having discussions and arguments in raidchat about what group should get the shadowpriest for this exact reason . It was always between the mages and the healers who needed the replenishment most . I used to be a fan of the Shadow Priest / Holy Paladin combo , mana from Vampiric Touch and from the passive mana for healing received spell
@@stevenjam7119 Nagrand and Feralas are too close to call for me. Back in the spring of 2005 I ding'ed my first 60 while inside a DM North run. It was around 5-6am and i had been up all night. The light of dawn was just starting to creep up the horizon, but the sky was still a dim-lit blueish-grey, dampened by the dark blanket of clouds left behind by a night thunderstorms- the smell of fresh rain lingered in the air. It was literally identical to the environment in DM North & Feralas. I'll never forget that feeling of total euphoric immersion that I experienced as a 13yr old in Feralas that day.
I don't enjoy bashing creators. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt... but the more videos I watch from this guy, the more frustrated I get. idk what kind of experience he had during vanilla and TBC, but I knew 2 spriests who had Atiesh quite early into Naxx. Neither of whom were GM's, which might almost make it excusable for them to get it early to a truly naive guild that wanted to credit their GM... but would be an awful waste of a legendary. But these two spriests were incredible and absolutely deserved to get one eventually. I don't believe an spriest is getting Atiesh if they can't keep up sustained DPS through some of the longer/more difficult fights in Naxx.
yepp, but youtube keeps recommending these videos, i guess i am the retarded whos clickin on it and realize it too late that its another metagoblin video :(
All of the feral cat info was wrong - mangle didn't exist until TBC and maim (the ability you thought was being updated) was also not introduced until TBC They don't need debuff slots in classic as all they _should_ use is shred, bite and faerie fire (of which has a top debuff pri o slot). They became *more* viable in TBC due to the introduction of mangle and some other QoL updates (actually have access to real tier gear)
+1 for all of the Cat info being wrong. The major QoL changes were: Better AP scaling on bleeds (and the debuff slots to apply them) - this is mega-true for pounce which was trash tier damage in Vanilla (though not applicable to bosses, obv) Mangle being a much better energy dump Mangle debuff also increased the damage of bleeds and shred by 30% Spec-relevant itemization, in particular /weapons/. Even then their damage wasn't "good" even at fresh 70, and they didn't scale as hard as other melee dps.
@@Xkazmarx I'd only disagree with their damage being bad in TBC. [Disclaimer - private server] I mained feral cat for a helluva long time and topped meters in T4 & T5 content. Also BT, but I never raided sunwell (I don't imagine too much would've changed). It was certainly met with the same prejudice that feral cat gets on classic (maybe a little less as they were happily brought in for their vastly superior MT capabilities compared to classic). It has a niche play style which I think a lot of people who pick the spec up don't buy into (for many reasons) and as a result end up portraying the spec quite poorly. Get a great druid piloting and I think you'll be impressed :)
@@Apparentt Likewise, I played Feral from Vanilla through wotlk. Even through wotlk the stigma was too much for me to overcome, it made "getting anything done" nigh impossible. Quit before Cata 'cause I was just tired of it, but loved the class/spec. Admittedly I mostly Bear'd through TBC - cat opportunities were rare. And, it was a long time ago (my memory isn't mega clear), so I could easily be wrong on account of any combination of memory/not being practiced/maybe even not having good rotation. I'd be hesitant to take priv server data one way or the other, though. Still, if you've got a spot doing it, I'm envious, and congrats. :)
@@Xkazmarx Yeah for sure, it can be really consuming trying to fight back at people all the time and not really worth it in the end. Back in the day there was certainly a lot less known about some qwirks (I think a really good example thats came out surrounding classic feral is MCP - this alone has greatly increased it's strength and it's something that wasn't known about in 2006.) Privates can indeed be not the best source of truth. With the classic servers the bosses had a lot more armor which meant that your cat dps there was actually _lower_ than it is now - this is of course balanced by the fact that the armor was higher for *all* melee which has been shown to have been a bigger problem for them than for us (the gap between warriors and rogues is a lot greater in classic than it was on the private servers, since the armor buff hurt them more). In any case I'd be super pumped if TBC servers did become a thing, and I'd be straight onto my cat again like I have for classic ^^
TBC was my "first" visit to WoW and for me this is the complete version. Vanilla was good but TBC fixed alot of the issues that should have been changed from the start and made it a more complete game for me. I love classic but hope TBC a reboot as well.
Liked the style. But so much wrong info.. Mangle didn't exist in classic. VE and VT were party wide, not raid. Debuff slots weren't useful for ferals in classic, they needed the better AP scaling that tbc brought. Several more as well..
Yadid Hosa I never had a chance to tinker with it in wrath. Work and life, I could only fit in the grind for ICC with a small core group. Didn’t pvp at all that expansion. Then quit after cata came out.
Yadid Hosa I tried when classic came out. Everyone racing made it boring af. Tried normal and it’s so dumbed down now. They dumbed it down so much my 4 yr old nephew could probably grind it out. It doesn’t have that feel of fun anymore.
Shockdin is really good in BG. I used to do 1 vs 2 in BG with bubble / LoH. first two hit will bring down 50% HP of a normal player. When reach 25%. Hammer of Wrath is actived
Spriest and feral tank are far from meme? Spriest is a great addition to a raid for warlocks and feral tanks can actually tank viability due to them having taunt and high AC.
We use feral tank as main tank for firemaw and similar. Definitely not a meme it works very good. The problem they have is against super high hitting abilities like mortal strike from Broodlord Lashlayer.
Feral cat definitely isn't meme either, all they need is multiple gnomer weps in their bag, and if they know what they are doing, should only be just behind the rogues and warrs on dps
its also worth noting that bear druids in TBC generate the most threat per second on a single target. Which has been shown to be massively important in classic.
You forgot to mention the couple other big buffs bears got, which were gaining mangle and lacerate which greatly increased their threat generation, and especially made them not so reliant on those somewhat clunky on next attack mauls, and the addition of survival instincts and reworking of barkskin that gave them defensive cooldowns which they basically had none off in vanilla. And then most importantly of all, they finally get proper itemization with tier sets and all.
One thing that was not mentioned but was a major increase in the accessibility and power of the "meme" specs was the introduction of spec specific tier gear. Additionally it meant that you had well statted tier gear to form a baseline and didn't just miss out on half the boss drops. In Classic you have to fill in when off set which is contested and never get access to tier bonuses which could have alleviated some limiting factor.
I played a shockadin (Holy/Retribution) during TBC until switching to Holy/Protection (for raiding) before switching again to Protection for raiding. It was better for questing speed, but it was very slow compared to Protection or Retribution. I only dropped it for Holy/Protection because it was a better build for raiding due to Blessing of Kings being stuck in the Protection tree.
I just started to see your video and overall seems pretty interesting. However, one big thing to highlight is that debuf limitations and suitable gear availability is a common change that will impact most DPS memes. Moving ahead I forecast adding a taunt to pally and defense cap to druids via talents are some of the most noticed cuanges. As for shadow priest, I expect making vampire embrace and touch to be raid wide. The rest is kinda fixed by itself with the 1st common thing I mentioned.. so I hope everything is covered
Mangle wasn’t reworked, it was added. Vampiric Embrace/Touch don’t regen your raid, only the party members. Druid tanks in classic aren’t just bags of meat they can also dash a metric ton of tps, it’s like a class in between DW tanks and shielded tanks
Bear tank IS viable and not a meme spec in classic, and Mangle doesn't exist in classic. Flat out incorrect there. Also you don't use any debuff slots except for Faerie Fire, which is a priority debuff to have on a target. You Shred and Ferocious Bite to DPS, and it's respectable with a competent player behind it. You are simply wrong about Feral.
ahjea i do remember. that were massive changes in terms of comfort and viability. just one thing. many of those dps specs finally recieved an aggro reduce talent. some of them were passives in their tress, like with the elemental shaman, others were active ones, like with the warlock. gues that played its part as well. :)
2:24 there's still a debuff limit in TBC. but it's not 8 and it's not 16. It's 40. And the raid size got reduced from 40 to 25. This allows for 1.8 (3 healer) to 1.9 (4 healer) debuffs per dps or tank. This makes specs like shadow priest (needs 3-e4 debuff slots) somewhat viable. Then again, SPs are only viable in T4, maybe T5. They don't scale with T6 gear (dots can't crit). But they're not brought because of their dps but because of their support. Even in T4, it's a support spec. If you don't like being a supporter - play a hunter.
What about arms warrior? I mean they were doing worse than rets and enhas during tbc in terms of dps but provided ultility (+4% physical dmg to everyone; rets were giving seal refreshements and + 3% crit for everyone and +2% dmg for party members and enhas wf, hero and +10% melee attack power partywide) and i feel like they were considered meme spec too.
I have to ask... Where is survival hunter on this list? In T6 content they reached around 80% dps of top dps classes while providing substantiel raid utility such as 110 ap to melee and 25% of their agi as attack power for the whole raid (around 250 in high end gear). They were not seen at all in vanilla but were 1 offs in almost all raid groups with more than 8 physical dps. Honestly feral DPS was a bigger meme in TBC than in vanilla. Because the boss fights in vanilla were so short powershifting could be done effectively which is not possible in TBC. The only time you see feral DPS in TBC was when the fight only required 1 war tank so you had the druid tank go feral dps to keep the 5% crit for rogues or huntards. Around 50% of pure DPS classes. Shadow priests were in late vanilla (after AQ debuff slot increase) also 1 offs just as they were in TBC for the additional caster damage increase. Their DPS sucked both in vanilla and in TBC, around 50% of good dps classes. Retri pala was honestly still a meme even on horde side in TBC. They were 1 offs for the raid wide 3% crit buff and blessings. Mediocore DPS class. Around 67% of pure DPS class. Ele shaman DPS was in TBC was a bad DPS class but brought because of totems, more specifically Totem of Wrath, which was a big DPS boost to locks and mages. About 60% DPS of pure DPS class. Bala dudu is shit tier DPS at the same level as shadow priest and feral dps, around 50%. They were sometimes 1 offs for the 3% raid wide hit bonus due to improved FF.
I have great memories proving many naysayers wrong with my Prot Pally in TBC. When I hit holy shield, my block chance would hit 120-130%, back when blocks mitigated all damage. I could solo tank, without CC, the first room in ShatHalls, much to the dismay of my healers. It also made me want to go engineering as my prof as my shield would often come to near breaking almost every run as I blocked so often. Good times.
After finishing watching just the shadow priest section, there has been no mention of debuff slots being hugely more abundant in TBC than in vanilla (instead of 40 players sharing 16 debuffs, TBC had 25 players sharing 32 debuffs.) For classes that live by debuffs, such as shadowpriests and warlocks, this is a godsend, and even without any of the changes made would have boosted their viability significantly.
I do remember engagement shamins and shadow priest getting the biggest buffs. Correct me if I am wrong but a good tank only needed a shadow priest, no dedicated healer at least in the low 60s.
correct, a raid geared tank would survive most heroic dungeons just by the healing from a shadowpriest. we ran many dungeons like this to speed things up when farming badges
I honestly just stacked agility as a bear tank during TBC and was allowed to roll on agi trinkets, could get dodge up around the 90% range on agility trinket procs.
Regarding druid tanks, and their issue in classic, their main issue was really that they could not get crit immune. This was not a big problem in regular instances, but in raids, it just made them too much of a liability, because of the risk that you would end up taking two crits in a row. You might be able to eat the first one and survive, but if you took a second crit soon thereafter your raid would likely wipe. Rogue evasion tanks suffered from a similar issue. While rogue evasion tanks would actually likely take less damage than a warrior, they rank the risk of taking 2-3 hits in a row, and that would result in a wipe (in the case of rogue evasion tanks, their high evasion made them crit-immune, but they did not have the armour to be able to withstand many regular hits).
The only way a Rogue dodge tank would be able to be hit in melee would be if a mob hit them from behind, I recently re-read the old forum threads on the topic from 2007 and nobody realistically attempted tanking with a lower-than-101.8% chance to avoid damage. Sometimes they would get hit from the front if their druid failed to re-apply Insect Swarm or something, but they had the passive talent Cheat Death which let them stay alive through all damage once every 60 seconds.
feral druid here to clear up some misconceptions you have about the three druid memes in classic; feral tanks; armor isn't an issue. the issue is the armor cap. we hit the armor cap very easily and can't benefit from more than 75% reduction (roughly 13,800 armor unbuffed which gets us to around 17,250 buffed with priest inspiration) no amount of bonus armor helps us if we're already capped! also, we don't have mangle in classic. feral dps; rip is only good on high armor targets. raid bosses have 0 armor or very close to it. it can still outperform ferocious bite but only if we have recently wiped or otherwise came to the raid without enough raid buffs for our crit chance. boomkins; moonfire is a very mana efficient spell, all dots are. the only issue is debuff slots
i remember running ret in raids and always being with a shadow priest for the mana regen through spiritual attunement and it was fucking awesome haha didnt even need seal of blood .. command for dayz
Shaman's got so much better in TBC in everyway. It was THE shaman expansion imo. Hero/BL, totem for every group from caster (wrath of air) to melee with the ones you ststed. Tanks also needed WF/SoE for threat. Then came wrath and all those unique totems that made shamans great went out the door and all the totems were over shadowed by everyone else's buffs. Meme specs I want to see talked about in the next videos : shockadin, I remember a pally who kicked some fucking ass I'm TBC and MoonTank. I healed a heroic botanic with a MoonKim tank. They just had so much threat naturally they could tank dungeons. They got 400% armor from the moonkin form and they could get crit cap with some resilience and some defense. Was awesome that it worked and he did multiple tanking of heroics for our guild.
Loved the video ! But I think you are missing on a big part of what made Feral and Pally tank viable: the appropriate gear that was designed for those specs ! Leather with defense, plate with defense and spell power etc ...
Thank you! Played TBC as a protection paladin myself. Biggest change of the entire game was that for the first time there was gear that was itemized for my spec so I could scale my spec. Block cap, rest into spell power, like shoulder enchant and gems. Tempest of chaos in main-hand for threat and Thunderfury for mitigation. Without a doubt the best time to play prot pally. Stuff were glued to you within the first gcd.
Thinking to go enhancement shaman in this classic TBC. I always loved the TBC version of this spec with dual WF. Does anyone think it’s a bad idea for PVE?
Moonkin also brought Imp Faerie Fire. 3% hit to all the melee and hunter was the best raid wide DPS buff in the game at the time. Unfortunately, they were largely ignored in TBC because of horrible state they were in during Vin. Of all of the specs you covered i think o raid should of went without at least 1 shadow priest and 1 Moonkin.
I think classic has proved that some of these specs, shadow priest, feral tanks, feral dps, and enhancement shamans actually have a place in raiding, and were only meme specs because people were bad at the game in vanilla
You really didn't went deep into enh shaman. There are some major factor points that you missed and some of them. Enh shaman mana on tbc were one of the best dps classes that could appear on top(yes, even surpassing casters a mile away, excluding hunters cuz their damage can easily be over 2.5k dps) They could endlessly totem twist over and when they had 10% mana they could simply pop shamanistic rage to get full mana and repeat the process.
Heck yes. Tbc was the best expansion to be fire mage I was a battle mage, was put in the melee group because close combat was op a f with the right talentsz and when geared fury warrior. It was crazy
Feenix Archangel had a beautiful one. The Torch Paladin. Torch of retribution had an attack speed of 0.3 or something along those lines. If you were to judge on crusader, then autohit with SoR you would do insane damage. But NPC, SoR scaled with Attack Speed. Yes it did, but not on feenix. I reached about 2000 dps on mine with green gear from AH. A buddy of mine did 4k dps in his t6 spell damage gear.
@@Rizso1 to be fair Seal of Vengenace was really good for Prot pally (On bosses I would seal twist it) but yeah it was much more noticeable when its the dps spec that gets an advantage.
Nothing is announced. There was, however, datamined that there might be a classic ptr server in the future which might hint towards classic+ way later on. This is highly speculative. However, I wouldn't trust the current blizzard with developing new classic+ regardless of how it might seem that they're interested in sustaining the vanilla philosophy and experience. I welcome tbc with open arms, though.
@@akhsdenlew1861 no that is a talent, last talent in elemental called totem of wrath, you get a new totem called wrath of air that gives +100 sp AMD healing in BC, air totem
@@akhsdenlew1861 Yea i thought of wrath of air which all shamans had. So i remember it wrong. You know TBC happened a long time ago. tbc.cavernoftime.com/spell=2895
Kinda fucked them up though. They added core filler spells as 41pt talents like mangle and crusader strike. That was a bad idea imo because it killed the old hybrid specs. Now every hybrid really needed a 41pt deep spec.
Cat druids got their bleeds in TBC; their DPS sucked in Classic because they just didn't scale with gear. They got gear and mechanic overhauls in TBC so they didn't suck. Bears weren't used in Classic because they just didn't have supporting gear. Bears were good "rookie" tanks in TBC since they could take a TON of damage (they couldn't push crushes of hit tables, but a bear could eat several crushes before they became a problem), but they were mana sponges, especially on long fights. Moonkins were still kinda bad in TBC. My raid group stacked shadow priests (we had 4) because they were so good with healers and hunters (we also had 4 hunters and a ret pally...our hunters were our best DPS...me being the hunter officer and a recruiter had no affect on this >.>). Even in TBC, prot paladins had some issues. They were great in heroics because their AoE threat was AMAZING (and basically every tank spec since has been modeled around the TBC protadin foundation), but getting enough defense/avoidance to be able to tank a boss without getting crushed AND enough spellpower gear to deal enough threat was quite difficult, especially in the early stages of raiding. Protadins were great for trash/add tanking, but you always wanted a warrior on the boss (druids were decent at either aspect, but warrior/paladin was the "desirable" combo).
As there was many fixed things, BC introdused some issues too. Total usefullnes of old weapons and tier sets, making the end game content of vanila abolutely useless. Hugely questionable desision of giving faction unique classes to an opposite faction. Blood elves for a horde was realy questionable, and slight draenei retcon was not good too. Locations were made with a high speed mount in mind, making them bigger but less detailed. Thus BC was my favourite expansion, it started the trend of devalue of player endgame progress and quality of level desighn (gameplay terms, not visuals) in WoW. As well as flat increase in numbers made some vanila mechanics a bit unstable.
Another reason Ret became more viable in a raid was because of their improved Crusader. Judge Crusader and everyone gets 3% higher chance to Crit the target.
This is a brilliant video mate!! if you use premiere pro to edit, you need to use "De-esher" audio effect on your voice over. quite painful with headphones on. 🙏🙏
Classic shadow priests did low dps, ERM youre joking right? Mindflay AND Shadow word pain have a 1:1 coeffecient scaling with spell power, I keep up with mages and warlocks in my raid
Wrong wrong wrong wrong. As soon as he talked about shadow priest I knew this guy was full of it. "They had a mana and heal that was raidwide"... NOPE, Party Wide in TBC.. Vampiric Embrace didn't become raid wide ever I don't think.
enhancement shaman became a mainstay durring hyjal when rogues was one of the highest dps classes in the game. Groups was very much often to buff them.
Notice how every meme spec is simply every class with a healer spec not being the healer spec.....
ikr! xD
rogues can heal with bandages
omg Nagrand... the feels of walking there amongst the giant beasts dang i miss tbc and entering Hellfire Peninsula for the first time
Seeing that colossal fel reaver appear on the horizon stomping toward you, literally shaking your screen, was f'ing amazing.
TBC was the best expansion without question.
I dont wanna see only belf paladins:/ like in retail. Its retarded
So funny. Everyone speaks about Nagrand. I love that zone but I feel hellfire is vastly underrated since it's the starting zone of tbc. It's such a cool unique environment.
I was there day one of TBC and the D/C and ganking left a sour taste for hellfire since then but thank the gods that zangermarsh is level 61+
@@SUNIKIGAMING HP was cool but i have a feeling that lot of people hated it just cuz how rough it was since both factions had one starting zone for outland after reaching level 60(58)
that made hellfire crowded asf, people waiting and constantly battling over spawns, it was just a mess in that regard, that's proly why it isn't getting the praise it should overall
Also Enhancement Shamans gained the ability shamanistic rage which was a 2 minute cd ability that reduced dmg taken by 30% and regenerated mana equal of 30% of your attack power over 15 sec on sucessful melee hits. Which made it alot easier to have your mana last in longer fights.
Shadow priest only gave mana to the 5 man group within the raid. In TBC it was still groupwide utility. In Wotlk raidwide came.
They were so good in tbc though
@Yadid Hosa nope was just group. The only time it was raid wide in TBC was in the wrath Pre patch but thats splitting hairs.
@Yadid Hosa nope
@@addisonratliff6693 exactly
@@addisonratliff6693 You're right , it was group based . I remember always having discussions and arguments in raidchat about what group should get the shadowpriest for this exact reason . It was always between the mages and the healers who needed the replenishment most . I used to be a fan of the Shadow Priest / Holy Paladin combo , mana from Vampiric Touch and from the passive mana for healing received spell
Wow that fable into sound had me nostalgic
Nagrand is hands down the best f'ing zone in the Outlands.
Whole game
@@stevenjam7119 Nagrand and Feralas are too close to call for me.
Back in the spring of 2005 I ding'ed my first 60 while inside a DM North run. It was around 5-6am and i had been up all night.
The light of dawn was just starting to creep up the horizon, but the sky was still a dim-lit blueish-grey, dampened by the dark blanket of clouds left behind by a night thunderstorms- the smell of fresh rain lingered in the air.
It was literally identical to the environment in DM North & Feralas. I'll never forget that feeling of total euphoric immersion that I experienced as a 13yr old in Feralas that day.
Best zone for me was Eastern Plaguelands the feel is so cool
D.C. Gold lmao. I hear ya dude. At that age wow had the ability to give you constant immersion orgasms
I swear this guy really has no idea what he's talking about, really feels like he just reads off a wiki and calls it his own info
what is a deboof? kekw hi accente is so discusting
I don't enjoy bashing creators. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt... but the more videos I watch from this guy, the more frustrated I get. idk what kind of experience he had during vanilla and TBC, but I knew 2 spriests who had Atiesh quite early into Naxx. Neither of whom were GM's, which might almost make it excusable for them to get it early to a truly naive guild that wanted to credit their GM... but would be an awful waste of a legendary.
But these two spriests were incredible and absolutely deserved to get one eventually.
I don't believe an spriest is getting Atiesh if they can't keep up sustained DPS through some of the longer/more difficult fights in Naxx.
yepp, but youtube keeps recommending these videos, i guess i am the retarded whos clickin on it and realize it too late that its another metagoblin video :(
All of the feral cat info was wrong - mangle didn't exist until TBC and maim (the ability you thought was being updated) was also not introduced until TBC
They don't need debuff slots in classic as all they _should_ use is shred, bite and faerie fire (of which has a top debuff pri o slot). They became *more* viable in TBC due to the introduction of mangle and some other QoL updates (actually have access to real tier gear)
+1 for all of the Cat info being wrong. The major QoL changes were:
Better AP scaling on bleeds (and the debuff slots to apply them) - this is mega-true for pounce which was trash tier damage in Vanilla (though not applicable to bosses, obv)
Mangle being a much better energy dump
Mangle debuff also increased the damage of bleeds and shred by 30%
Spec-relevant itemization, in particular /weapons/.
Even then their damage wasn't "good" even at fresh 70, and they didn't scale as hard as other melee dps.
@@Xkazmarx I'd only disagree with their damage being bad in TBC. [Disclaimer - private server] I mained feral cat for a helluva long time and topped meters in T4 & T5 content. Also BT, but I never raided sunwell (I don't imagine too much would've changed).
It was certainly met with the same prejudice that feral cat gets on classic (maybe a little less as they were happily brought in for their vastly superior MT capabilities compared to classic).
It has a niche play style which I think a lot of people who pick the spec up don't buy into (for many reasons) and as a result end up portraying the spec quite poorly. Get a great druid piloting and I think you'll be impressed :)
@@Apparentt Likewise, I played Feral from Vanilla through wotlk. Even through wotlk the stigma was too much for me to overcome, it made "getting anything done" nigh impossible. Quit before Cata 'cause I was just tired of it, but loved the class/spec.
Admittedly I mostly Bear'd through TBC - cat opportunities were rare. And, it was a long time ago (my memory isn't mega clear), so I could easily be wrong on account of any combination of memory/not being practiced/maybe even not having good rotation.
I'd be hesitant to take priv server data one way or the other, though. Still, if you've got a spot doing it, I'm envious, and congrats. :)
@@Xkazmarx Yeah for sure, it can be really consuming trying to fight back at people all the time and not really worth it in the end. Back in the day there was certainly a lot less known about some qwirks (I think a really good example thats came out surrounding classic feral is MCP - this alone has greatly increased it's strength and it's something that wasn't known about in 2006.)
Privates can indeed be not the best source of truth. With the classic servers the bosses had a lot more armor which meant that your cat dps there was actually _lower_ than it is now - this is of course balanced by the fact that the armor was higher for *all* melee which has been shown to have been a bigger problem for them than for us (the gap between warriors and rogues is a lot greater in classic than it was on the private servers, since the armor buff hurt them more).
In any case I'd be super pumped if TBC servers did become a thing, and I'd be straight onto my cat again like I have for classic ^^
Also, they do pretty good damage currently.
That Fable music right in the feels
It hits hella different
TBC was my "first" visit to WoW and for me this is the complete version. Vanilla was good but TBC fixed alot of the issues that should have been changed from the start and made it a more complete game for me. I love classic but hope TBC a reboot as well.
Same with wrath
@@MrTranzformer1 LFG was intodused in wrath
Agree. TBC is better then Vannila. I hope bliz will relaese it in classic.
@@ugandanwarrior5657 Better is some things. Worse in others.
Liked the style. But so much wrong info.. Mangle didn't exist in classic. VE and VT were party wide, not raid. Debuff slots weren't useful for ferals in classic, they needed the better AP scaling that tbc brought. Several more as well..
My fav meme spec in TBC pvp was the shockadin. They weren’t the best but holy hell they were tough sobs to kill lol
Yadid Hosa I never had a chance to tinker with it in wrath. Work and life, I could only fit in the grind for ICC with a small core group. Didn’t pvp at all that expansion. Then quit after cata came out.
Yadid Hosa I tried when classic came out. Everyone racing made it boring af. Tried normal and it’s so dumbed down now. They dumbed it down so much my 4 yr old nephew could probably grind it out. It doesn’t have that feel of fun anymore.
Shockdin is really good in BG. I used to do 1 vs 2 in BG with bubble / LoH. first two hit will bring down 50% HP of a normal player. When reach 25%. Hammer of Wrath is actived
One of the best parts of your videos is the Fable music. Love it!
I see you too, are a big Fable TLC fan! The sound in the intro gave me a flashback into my childhood 😊
Really cool video , Loved tbc. I think Vampiric Embrace and touch were Both still party buff in TBC.
Spriest and feral tank are far from meme? Spriest is a great addition to a raid for warlocks and feral tanks can actually tank viability due to them having taunt and high AC.
Spriest is not a meme class
We use feral tank as main tank for firemaw and similar. Definitely not a meme it works very good.
The problem they have is against super high hitting abilities like mortal strike from Broodlord Lashlayer.
Feral cat definitely isn't meme either, all they need is multiple gnomer weps in their bag, and if they know what they are doing, should only be just behind the rogues and warrs on dps
@@IRoddyx I've seen feral cats top metres. Power shifting is op and got better in tbc
Sure, but they're slots are limited, where as rogues, warriors, mages, and locks are always going to be "welcome" when forming a raid.
The fable music killed me. My classic toon is even named chickenchasa.
its also worth noting that bear druids in TBC generate the most threat per second on a single target. Which has been shown to be massively important in classic.
You forgot to mention the couple other big buffs bears got, which were gaining mangle and lacerate which greatly increased their threat generation, and especially made them not so reliant on those somewhat clunky on next attack mauls, and the addition of survival instincts and reworking of barkskin that gave them defensive cooldowns which they basically had none off in vanilla. And then most importantly of all, they finally get proper itemization with tier sets and all.
As a healer main, these are pretty much my fav classes. Just another reason why I love and can’t wait till TBC
One thing that was not mentioned but was a major increase in the accessibility and power of the "meme" specs was the introduction of spec specific tier gear.
Additionally it meant that you had well statted tier gear to form a baseline and didn't just miss out on half the boss drops.
In Classic you have to fill in when off set which is contested and never get access to tier bonuses which could have alleviated some limiting factor.
I played a shockadin (Holy/Retribution) during TBC until switching to Holy/Protection (for raiding) before switching again to Protection for raiding. It was better for questing speed, but it was very slow compared to Protection or Retribution. I only dropped it for Holy/Protection because it was a better build for raiding due to Blessing of Kings being stuck in the Protection tree.
I just started to see your video and overall seems pretty interesting. However, one big thing to highlight is that debuf limitations and suitable gear availability is a common change that will impact most DPS memes. Moving ahead I forecast adding a taunt to pally and defense cap to druids via talents are some of the most noticed cuanges. As for shadow priest, I expect making vampire embrace and touch to be raid wide. The rest is kinda fixed by itself with the 1st common thing I mentioned.. so I hope everything is covered
Excuse you?
@@Oscar-pm9bx what do you mean? Please elaborate because honestly I don't understand your response XD
Mangle wasn’t reworked, it was added. Vampiric Embrace/Touch don’t regen your raid, only the party members. Druid tanks in classic aren’t just bags of meat they can also dash a metric ton of tps, it’s like a class in between DW tanks and shielded tanks
Bear tank IS viable and not a meme spec in classic, and Mangle doesn't exist in classic. Flat out incorrect there. Also you don't use any debuff slots except for Faerie Fire, which is a priority debuff to have on a target. You Shred and Ferocious Bite to DPS, and it's respectable with a competent player behind it. You are simply wrong about Feral.
Feral cat is also good DPS currently
You didn't say this, but Seal of Blood scaled from Attack Power completely, while other Seals did not. That is why it was so good.
ahjea i do remember. that were massive changes in terms of comfort and viability.
just one thing. many of those dps specs finally recieved an aggro reduce talent. some of them were passives in their tress, like with the elemental shaman, others were active ones, like with the warlock. gues that played its part as well. :)
2:24 there's still a debuff limit in TBC. but it's not 8 and it's not 16. It's 40. And the raid size got reduced from 40 to 25. This allows for 1.8 (3 healer) to 1.9 (4 healer) debuffs per dps or tank. This makes specs like shadow priest (needs 3-e4 debuff slots) somewhat viable. Then again, SPs are only viable in T4, maybe T5. They don't scale with T6 gear (dots can't crit). But they're not brought because of their dps but because of their support. Even in T4, it's a support spec. If you don't like being a supporter - play a hunter.
That fable music at the start gave me mega nostalgia
who else recognised Fable music in the background
I was a Succy sacrificing, key board face rolling, shadow/seed spamming, top of DPS charts warlock and proud of it!
What about arms warrior? I mean they were doing worse than rets and enhas during tbc in terms of dps but provided ultility (+4% physical dmg to everyone; rets were giving seal refreshements and + 3% crit for everyone and +2% dmg for party members and enhas wf, hero and +10% melee attack power partywide) and i feel like they were considered meme spec too.
I have to ask... Where is survival hunter on this list? In T6 content they reached around 80% dps of top dps classes while providing substantiel raid utility such as 110 ap to melee and 25% of their agi as attack power for the whole raid (around 250 in high end gear). They were not seen at all in vanilla but were 1 offs in almost all raid groups with more than 8 physical dps.
Honestly feral DPS was a bigger meme in TBC than in vanilla. Because the boss fights in vanilla were so short powershifting could be done effectively which is not possible in TBC. The only time you see feral DPS in TBC was when the fight only required 1 war tank so you had the druid tank go feral dps to keep the 5% crit for rogues or huntards. Around 50% of pure DPS classes.
Shadow priests were in late vanilla (after AQ debuff slot increase) also 1 offs just as they were in TBC for the additional caster damage increase. Their DPS sucked both in vanilla and in TBC, around 50% of good dps classes.
Retri pala was honestly still a meme even on horde side in TBC. They were 1 offs for the raid wide 3% crit buff and blessings. Mediocore DPS class. Around 67% of pure DPS class.
Ele shaman DPS was in TBC was a bad DPS class but brought because of totems, more specifically Totem of Wrath, which was a big DPS boost to locks and mages. About 60% DPS of pure DPS class.
Bala dudu is shit tier DPS at the same level as shadow priest and feral dps, around 50%. They were sometimes 1 offs for the 3% raid wide hit bonus due to improved FF.
looking forward to long sustainable dps fights with bleeds as a rogue =) more fun gameplay than todays options
@Tyler Zeus xD the only way of life, not entirely sure what it entails, but sure thing man 🙃👍
I have great memories proving many naysayers wrong with my Prot Pally in TBC. When I hit holy shield, my block chance would hit 120-130%, back when blocks mitigated all damage. I could solo tank, without CC, the first room in ShatHalls, much to the dismay of my healers. It also made me want to go engineering as my prof as my shield would often come to near breaking almost every run as I blocked so often. Good times.
can't wait for TBC. Quit Classic in December. Maybe will come back for TBC.
if i remember correctly Ally pallys had seal of MARTYR.
wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Seal_of_the_Martyr
edit: linking the skill on wiki
After finishing watching just the shadow priest section, there has been no mention of debuff slots being hugely more abundant in TBC than in vanilla (instead of 40 players sharing 16 debuffs, TBC had 25 players sharing 32 debuffs.) For classes that live by debuffs, such as shadowpriests and warlocks, this is a godsend, and even without any of the changes made would have boosted their viability significantly.
feral tank was good in classic you just needed exactly the right gear
I do remember engagement shamins and shadow priest getting the biggest buffs. Correct me if I am wrong but a good tank only needed a shadow priest, no dedicated healer at least in the low 60s.
correct, a raid geared tank would survive most heroic dungeons just by the healing from a shadowpriest. we ran many dungeons like this to speed things up when farming badges
I honestly just stacked agility as a bear tank during TBC and was allowed to roll on agi trinkets, could get dodge up around the 90% range on agility trinket procs.
I remember getting 99% dodge with double trinket proc/use in hyjal, was fun
Regarding druid tanks, and their issue in classic, their main issue was really that they could not get crit immune. This was not a big problem in regular instances, but in raids, it just made them too much of a liability, because of the risk that you would end up taking two crits in a row. You might be able to eat the first one and survive, but if you took a second crit soon thereafter your raid would likely wipe.
Rogue evasion tanks suffered from a similar issue. While rogue evasion tanks would actually likely take less damage than a warrior, they rank the risk of taking 2-3 hits in a row, and that would result in a wipe (in the case of rogue evasion tanks, their high evasion made them crit-immune, but they did not have the armour to be able to withstand many regular hits).
The only way a Rogue dodge tank would be able to be hit in melee would be if a mob hit them from behind, I recently re-read the old forum threads on the topic from 2007 and nobody realistically attempted tanking with a lower-than-101.8% chance to avoid damage. Sometimes they would get hit from the front if their druid failed to re-apply Insect Swarm or something, but they had the passive talent Cheat Death which let them stay alive through all damage once every 60 seconds.
feral druid here to clear up some misconceptions you have about the three druid memes in classic;
feral tanks; armor isn't an issue. the issue is the armor cap. we hit the armor cap very easily and can't benefit from more than 75% reduction (roughly 13,800 armor unbuffed which gets us to around 17,250 buffed with priest inspiration) no amount of bonus armor helps us if we're already capped! also, we don't have mangle in classic.
feral dps; rip is only good on high armor targets. raid bosses have 0 armor or very close to it. it can still outperform ferocious bite but only if we have recently wiped or otherwise came to the raid without enough raid buffs for our crit chance.
boomkins; moonfire is a very mana efficient spell, all dots are. the only issue is debuff slots
Shockaidin the holy shock pally build was sick! So much burst and healing, it was really good for 2v2 pvp
That fable music nostalgia trip intro...
i remember running ret in raids and always being with a shadow priest for the mana regen through spiritual attunement and it was fucking awesome haha didnt even need seal of blood .. command for dayz
Shaman's got so much better in TBC in everyway. It was THE shaman expansion imo. Hero/BL, totem for every group from caster (wrath of air) to melee with the ones you ststed. Tanks also needed WF/SoE for threat. Then came wrath and all those unique totems that made shamans great went out the door and all the totems were over shadowed by everyone else's buffs.
Meme specs I want to see talked about in the next videos : shockadin, I remember a pally who kicked some fucking ass I'm TBC and MoonTank. I healed a heroic botanic with a MoonKim tank. They just had so much threat naturally they could tank dungeons. They got 400% armor from the moonkin form and they could get crit cap with some resilience and some defense. Was awesome that it worked and he did multiple tanking of heroics for our guild.
that fable intro though. the feels.
tbc is the best time in my wow life D:
Loved the video ! But I think you are missing on a big part of what made Feral and Pally tank viable: the appropriate gear that was designed for those specs ! Leather with defense, plate with defense and spell power etc ...
Thank you! Played TBC as a protection paladin myself. Biggest change of the entire game was that for the first time there was gear that was itemized for my spec so I could scale my spec. Block cap, rest into spell power, like shoulder enchant and gems. Tempest of chaos in main-hand for threat and Thunderfury for mitigation. Without a doubt the best time to play prot pally. Stuff were glued to you within the first gcd.
The fable music made the video 10 times better
Thinking to go enhancement shaman in this classic TBC. I always loved the TBC version of this spec with dual WF. Does anyone think it’s a bad idea for PVE?
Use wf on the mh wep. There's an internal cooldown
Is this the guy who did the mwayCosy advert for the RTWF for Method?
Lol the use of Fable music hit my heart! Fable is my FAVORITE game, wow/Diablo2 tie for second.
Answer: They gave them insanely good new talents n spells.
Moonkin also brought Imp Faerie Fire. 3% hit to all the melee and hunter was the best raid wide DPS buff in the game at the time. Unfortunately, they were largely ignored in TBC because of horrible state they were in during Vin. Of all of the specs you covered i think o raid should of went without at least 1 shadow priest and 1 Moonkin.
Damm man first i see your vid with elder scrolls music and now Fable
I think classic has proved that some of these specs, shadow priest, feral tanks, feral dps, and enhancement shamans actually have a place in raiding, and were only meme specs because people were bad at the game in vanilla
Yeah.. feral tanks and cats aren't a meme spec...
Survival hunter?
Thanks for the shoutout :D
Smite priest was also a thing in tbc, they did very well in 5 mens
You really didn't went deep into enh shaman. There are some major factor points that you missed and some of them.
Enh shaman mana on tbc were one of the best dps classes that could appear on top(yes, even surpassing casters a mile away, excluding hunters cuz their damage can easily be over 2.5k dps)
They could endlessly totem twist over and when they had 10% mana they could simply pop shamanistic rage to get full mana and repeat the process.
Heck yes. Tbc was the best expansion to be fire mage I was a battle mage, was put in the melee group because close combat was op a f with the right talentsz and when geared fury warrior. It was crazy
My favourite meme spec of all time was the "stop hitting yourself" Priest. I miss Reflective Shield and Pain Suppression so much :(
They really gotta make a TBC classic. Best expansion ever.
didn't do the entire raid in burning crusade shit was group wide so you stuck the shadow priest in the group full of the healers
Looking forward to the fresh Endless TBC server coming in 3 days. Finally getting to play some TBC again after a long time!
The0fyce what’s the name?
@@Dan-rg8fz Endless.gg :)
Shadow priests were OP in TBC. Especially in pvp. why they got nerfed.
They weren't called "Face melters" for no reason
fable music?
Feenix Archangel had a beautiful one. The Torch Paladin. Torch of retribution had an attack speed of 0.3 or something along those lines. If you were to judge on crusader, then autohit with SoR you would do insane damage. But NPC, SoR scaled with Attack Speed. Yes it did, but not on feenix. I reached about 2000 dps on mine with green gear from AH. A buddy of mine did 4k dps in his t6 spell damage gear.
I love the fable music in the beginning!
Endless wow did a great job with seals, i always played alliance, so finally i can do some solid dmg with ret 😊
seal of blood was so much better than the alliance version.
@@Rizso1 to be fair Seal of Vengenace was really good for Prot pally (On bosses I would seal twist it) but yeah it was much more noticeable when its the dps spec that gets an advantage.
forgot destruction warlock, they became pretty broken after T5 if I can recall correctly, couldve been after Hyjal/BT aswell
Destruction wasnt meme in classic, they used pretty much the same build with ruin + sacrifice
you mentioned TBC, has Blizz announced that it is coming for sure?
Hope not and they make something new but I bet those lazy fucks will do it since it requires no effort
Nothing is announced. There was, however, datamined that there might be a classic ptr server in the future which might hint towards classic+ way later on. This is highly speculative. However, I wouldn't trust the current blizzard with developing new classic+ regardless of how it might seem that they're interested in sustaining the vanilla philosophy and experience. I welcome tbc with open arms, though.
i can add that the ptr server is/was used for zg+AB btw, but it might mean it will be used for cool stuff later on too
Forgot the spellpower totem for ele shamans. 100 spellpower was loved by all casters :)
@@akhsdenlew1861 no that is a talent, last talent in elemental called totem of wrath, you get a new totem called wrath of air that gives +100 sp AMD healing in BC, air totem
@@akhsdenlew1861 Yea i thought of wrath of air which all shamans had. So i remember it wrong. You know TBC happened a long time ago. tbc.cavernoftime.com/spell=2895
Best video you made so far!!!
what private server was this done on?
Kinda fucked them up though. They added core filler spells as 41pt talents like mangle and crusader strike. That was a bad idea imo because it killed the old hybrid specs. Now every hybrid really needed a 41pt deep spec.
Cat druids got their bleeds in TBC; their DPS sucked in Classic because they just didn't scale with gear. They got gear and mechanic overhauls in TBC so they didn't suck.
Bears weren't used in Classic because they just didn't have supporting gear. Bears were good "rookie" tanks in TBC since they could take a TON of damage (they couldn't push crushes of hit tables, but a bear could eat several crushes before they became a problem), but they were mana sponges, especially on long fights.
Moonkins were still kinda bad in TBC.
My raid group stacked shadow priests (we had 4) because they were so good with healers and hunters (we also had 4 hunters and a ret pally...our hunters were our best DPS...me being the hunter officer and a recruiter had no affect on this >.>).
Even in TBC, prot paladins had some issues. They were great in heroics because their AoE threat was AMAZING (and basically every tank spec since has been modeled around the TBC protadin foundation), but getting enough defense/avoidance to be able to tank a boss without getting crushed AND enough spellpower gear to deal enough threat was quite difficult, especially in the early stages of raiding. Protadins were great for trash/add tanking, but you always wanted a warrior on the boss (druids were decent at either aspect, but warrior/paladin was the "desirable" combo).
Their DPS in classic is pretty good. Bear tanks are also widely used in classic so much right now lol
How about the arms/Slam warrior?
hes playing on endless.gg/ comming out this friday 28th!
As there was many fixed things, BC introdused some issues too. Total usefullnes of old weapons and tier sets, making the end game content of vanila abolutely useless. Hugely questionable desision of giving faction unique classes to an opposite faction. Blood elves for a horde was realy questionable, and slight draenei retcon was not good too. Locations were made with a high speed mount in mind, making them bigger but less detailed.
Thus BC was my favourite expansion, it started the trend of devalue of player endgame progress and quality of level desighn (gameplay terms, not visuals) in WoW. As well as flat increase in numbers made some vanila mechanics a bit unstable.
Another reason Ret became more viable in a raid was because of their improved Crusader. Judge Crusader and everyone gets 3% higher chance to Crit the target.
Only all the buffs and mana/life reg applied to the PARTY not the raid.
you say spelladin is a meme spec i would argue it isnt as its about 450-500 dps in AQ which honestly isnt bad for a paladin
why do people forget Mage - tank in gruul's lair ?
Because it wasnt a meme spec in Classic
Actually it wasnt even a spec, just a single spell
TBC seems to me the pinnacle of class gameplay and WOW other then WOTLK. Very interesting.
This is a brilliant video mate!! if you use premiere pro to edit, you need to use "De-esher" audio effect on your voice over. quite painful with headphones on. 🙏🙏
Not gonna lie I love how calm and soothing his voice is like wowie zowie also amazing vid man just found the channel and I already love it
but half of that is BS
@@abrvalg321 😳which half
i loved tbc. I also liked playing disc priest in pvp
Classic shadow priests did low dps, ERM youre joking right? Mindflay AND Shadow word pain have a 1:1 coeffecient scaling with spell power, I keep up with mages and warlocks in my raid
Mangle was never a gouge like ability. That was another finisher introduced to improve feral in pvp
what server it is bro?
The fable music hits different
Fable soundtrack brings me happiness.
Playing on the endless server coming out friday?
What is this about a wow tbc server?! Is it a private server?
Wrong wrong wrong wrong.
As soon as he talked about shadow priest I knew this guy was full of it.
"They had a mana and heal that was raidwide"... NOPE, Party Wide in TBC.. Vampiric Embrace didn't become raid wide ever I don't think.
enhance shaman was a viable dps class in tbc ok, they fall into the same kind of scaling as warriors with being heavily gear dependent
enhancement shaman became a mainstay durring hyjal when rogues was one of the highest dps classes in the game. Groups was very much often to buff them.
My favorite spec every was Ret pally with a shield in pvp in wotlk was so much fun