Let's Talk About Thousand-Year Door's 30fps Frame Rate
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- Опубликовано: 30 апр 2024
- The Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door remake runs at 30fps rather than 60fps like the original. Here's why I think that's absolutely okay.
Channel art by @PaintraSeaPea
Imagine if Nintendo added a “performance mode” and it was just the original game.
That'd legit be hilarious. I mean I'm still not buying the remake because of the censorship, but I have the original on Steam Deck and that's more than good enough for me.
@@megaman37456Censorship?
@@megaman37456 what censorship
@@megaman37456What censorship? I thought the only censorship was how they rewrote things with Vivian in the original USA version, which it seems like they fixed in the new one.
@@oasis9009 Yep, the only shown instance so far is the Goomba trio in the sewers dialogue is completely different from the original game, and if that's changed I'm willing to bet they bastardized the entire script.
The past 3 Paper Mario games were 30fps and I never even noticed
Paper terraria when
This ain't terraria...
Plus it just feels better I think. A paper themed game doesn't need to feel super smooth, it's supposed to be like paper, 30 is honestly fine
I agree completely. Also I love your vids.
@@splatoonshorts 30fps is more cinematic............
I'm so happy that this is the argument we're having rather than "will Paper Mario ever be good again"
True.
Trading a argument for a debate instead?
seems legit👌
That hasn't gone away everyone's still thinking about it...especially with this remake giving people hope lol. Myself included.
Positive vibes energy and thoughts 🫶🏼
Agreed
“All opinions are valid 🥰✨” mf’s when I show them the Paper Mario community:
This and the Sonic community lol
@@gltchyyboy7787 Not to mention the Pokemon community?
I didn't realize the first one ran at sixty
That’s because it dropped frames a lot of the time haha
I'd honestly like consistency so this is great
well back then maybe you just didnt know the difference but in 2024 this remake should have been a easy homerun..
@@joshuasouthwick6808 I value a consistent 30fps over an inconsistent 60fps
@variumi actually it's been mentioned that the frames drop even at 30 fps but it does seem to be in the same areas where it frame drops in the same areas it did in the original game either way it probably won't bother me too much.
Me: “i dont understand video game development”
Arlo: “its made with VOODOO MAGIC”
Never change.
I don’t understand game development either but as someone who owned a GameCube. Metroid prime is voodoo magic.
Your comment had exactly 64 likes when I looked at it. In fact I’ve seen seeing quite a few comments at 64 likes lately. What is this voodoo magic?
As a hobbyist game dev, I can ashore you we do not do magic and are not a cult
@@Leefree09 Good job, fellow follower. We must keep it a secret.
@@Quartz512_ Yes Yes indeed fellow follower. they may not know our power.
The biggest reason people usually favor 60fps is because of input lag. Paper Mario doesn't exactly have the high-octane action where that kind of responsiveness is going to matter much.
While this is still sometimes true and may be for this game, developers have decoupled fps from the frequency inputs are being registered for awhile now. It's not a guarantee that every new game handles input this way, but a lot of games anymore run input polling on a separate thread and at a higher speed than the frame rate (like anywhere between 60 to 1000 times per second), which keeps things responsive even in lower fps games or during lag spikes.
If it actually made action commands easier to hit, higher frame rate would be really helpful.
@@TheUltimateRareand then people complain that’s it’s too easy. It’s a never ending cycle
Depends on how used to the original timing for perfect blocks you are... There actually are small intervals for those.
@@MidknightHour If this were the case for the remake... This would theoretically eliminate the need to adjust timing windows for action commands and super guards, right?
That'd be neat.
i know people generally agree it's not a huge problem, but one of the things that always struck me whenever I looked back at TTYD is just how smooth it plays. the 60 FPS really adds a lot to the presentation.
I honestly don’t think the vast majority of people (including me) even noticed or cared until something important brought it to people’s attention.
True, but to those people that are complaining, they should take action and stand their ground on what they believe to be a legitimate issue by voting with their wallet.
@@mihd9874 it is definetly their right, but if we always stand our ground for minor Things , no game will sell a Million ever again, and Gaming could be Finished again, like in the Atari Days.
@@herrzeiens3503 keep licking that boot lol
@@herrzeiens3503I think the middle ground is to support the game and deliver feedback. I mean that works from time to time but most effective for products you care for.
@@herrzeiens3503 Hahahahaha! oh man, the notion that gaming would be finished if no game ever sold over a million ever again that's a good one buddy. Maybe AAA would be finished but I only consider that a good thing.
I'll be honest, if you hadn't told me that there was a framerate difference between the old and the new game, I doubt I would have noticed it playing. I still don't see it even now that I know.
that's because it's being created with the limitation of 30 FPS in mind. Allowing them to easily hide certain things.
You are blind
@@sinisis2000 Maybe, but honestly, I've never cared whether a game played at 60 frames per second or 30 frames per second. As long as it wasn't 30 seconds per frame, like what happened during a playthrough of Skyrim once, I'm happy.
@@beterbomen I'm blind too because I don't notice either lol. And ignorance is bliss I guess because worrying about FPS sounds absolutely miserable
@@Fisto64 only reason to worry about the framerate, if you played PVP games like League of Legends, Counter Strike or games that rely on your inputs like fighting games (Streetfighter, Mortal Kombat), platformers with challenging layouts etc.
But complaing that Paper Mario doesn't have it is quite weird. You fight in a turn-based RPG with a few action commands that probably are adjusted to the framerate anyways, there is mostly puzzles to solve that don't need high framerates, cause you never need to do precise platforming etc.
Imagine being part of the movement to get a remaster, getting this wonderful remake instead, and then boycotting it over the frame rate.
I REALLY hope there aren’t too many people doing this.
Hmmm yea I think I will just pirate and emulate it. I bet I can make it 120 fps on my pc. Stupid slow ass switch (ttyd is my favorite game of all time)
People are going to boycott it becayse of the censorship, the frames are small time now
Obviously you don’t since you don’t want to support the game frame rate doesn’t matter
@joeykeilholz925 can you like not? You're the reason we aren't ever getting another Paper Mario game like TTYD
Emulate it all you want but all I ask is to not act like a child and pirate the game outright smh
Edit: Just so I'm clear, buy the game first before you Emulate it otherwise you're ruining it for all of us when you pirate TTYD
@@shadexao what you said doesnt make sense. You cant emulate it without pirating it.
10:53 actually, it does happen at least once per chapter, I’d say it was a much more prominent focus than people perceive. Beyond the obvious crowd during battles, here’s a list of some, MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD:
Prologue: X-Nauts
Ch1: Fuzzies and Dull Bones
Ch2: Punies
Ch3: Glitzville Crowds
Ch4: Boos in the steeple and the chest
Ch5: Freeing the roads
Ch6: Smorgs
Ch7: Bob-omb cannon scene
Ch8: Dry Bones
I’m forgetting plenty, but yeah, MANY instances! Perhaps unorthodox, but this is like a “gimmick” with TTYD, like Color Splash’s paint and TOK Origami
And at least for the prologue one, it seems they actually fixed some frame rate issue in the remake, as in the earlier trailer that scene still had frame drops. However, looking at the recent footage, there is none at all.
Im glad an OG isbpointing this out.
The whole having 100+ npcs on screen was a selling point of the GC back in the day!
This wasn't just a gimmick but also a result of the consoles capabilities being experimented with
I believe that Masahiro Sakurai stated in a RUclips video on his channel that while 60 FPS is preferred, most developers consider 30 FPS to be acceptable as well. I'm with that mentality. Yes, I'd prefer 60 FPS, but a 30 FPS framerate doesn't make a game completely unplayable garbage.
Fighting Games
Fr the only time I actually care about high framerates are in games that need it, like fighting amd rhythm games
@@GameFreak64101 Talking about video games in general
Of course, if frame-perfect inputs are a fundamental part of the experience, getting as high of an fps as possible would be preferable, however that isn’t the case for the vast, vast majority of games out there
Depends on the game but... Paper Mario?
I have never seen the difference. Everyone’s like “Oh, this is 30 FPS? That sucks man!!” Meanwhile I’m here like “THEY LOOK THE EXACT SAME! ARGUE ABOUT SOMETHING MEANINGFUL!!”
I'm watching all this footage in the background and I have come to the conclusion that 30fps is fine.
watching 30 fps and playing 30 fps are 2 very differnt things
@@callumglowacki7333In case It worried you, for what Ive seen, is that action commands are probably gonna be more input friendly just as the newer games, so a lower framerate wouldn't be that much of a deal.
@@callumglowacki7333and as someone who's played a lot of 30fps games
it's fine.
@@JoseViktor4099plus it’s a turn based rpg. If this were an action playformer, shooter or a fighting game I could totally understand the grievances. But what part of this game absolutely demands more than 30fps?
As we know, game feel can be judged by watching a video. I am very smart.
I'll never understand people's obsession with frames of all things. 30 is more than enough for most things.
exactly
8 to 15 is* Tell me you havent played Cities Skylines with 500 assets, props and 100 mods before without telling me you havent played Cities Skylines with 500 assets, props and 100 mods before🤣🤣
But it could look *better*
I'll definitely be looking for a way to make it run at 60, like all games should
The original ran at 60 fps. But the original was also on game cube, which is plugged in to power all the time and battery life is not an issue. The switch can be played on the go, so battery life and overheating is definitely something they have to take into account. They could make two different modes, a performance 60 fps mode when the switch is docked, but that would mean (as someone pointed out) switch lite users would have a different experience from those with the regular switch.
That’s actually what they did for bowser’s fury. handheld runs at 30 while docked is 60.
The original isn't really relevant in terms of the technical reasons the remake runs at 30 instead of 60 like the original. The switch has a fixed amount of processing power in either mode, and games that fully use that do result in less battery life but they don't ever make it run in an unsafe way. When docked, the switch is more powerful but it needs to render at a higher resolution to get comparable image quality to handheld due to the bigger screen, so most games bump the resolution rather than framerate.
I also think it's worth pointing out that the devs of the Metroid Prime Remastered have stated that they had to cut some of the fancier effects to keep it at 60. I don't remember all of the interview but I specifically remember that they said that's why they cut the real time lighting caused by Samus' weapons in the remaster.
And this is fine. I would take whatever cuts are necessary to not cut the frame rate in half from what it was 2 decades ago on much weaker hardware.
And id rather have 30 fps with some cooler effects. @LegitMLG360noscoper
@@gospelarchain4504then emulate the GameCube version on dolphin bud
@@gospelarchain4504 "and thus all negotiations broke down and the comment section was thrown into a state of mild bickering."
@@gospelarchain4504 that's great. that's why pc gaming is just better.
for some reason console games are still pretty allergic to giving people options
Butternut Squash? Yes Please!
Yeah, but Solid Snake!
Wrongzo
🧈 🥜
Silver bells in the lane!!
its the hardwares fault, were due for a switch successor already. 60 fps should absolutely be standard.
I wont lie that it being 30 fps is the ONLY gripe ive had with the remake so far. But at the end of the day, its just that: a gripe. Definitely not a deal breaker for me, and im still going to enjoy the crap out of this. Im just so thankful they actually remade this game! It looks really beautiful
I'm ok with 30 fps - that said I'm hoping the Switch 2 has some kind of frame boost for OG Switch games, kinda like the new3DS did for games like Pokemon SuMo
Absolutely! That's my dream scenario. Hopefully Nintendo doesn't do anything stupid with their next system!
Yeah, same here.
You know if they didnt youd bend over and be okay with it too
That would be so cool. A lot of games would benefit from it, like TOTK or Xenoblade 3.
@@ridgenyan-botxv367 TOTK looks really good at 60fps
I'm gonna say this: It genuinely does feel like an absurd hyperfixation on a miracle of a game that's basically improved in every other sense and it being albeit a smaller Paper Mario debate, this definitely could've gone on the main channel I feel.
Some people also says that the music is generic and bland, so yes, apparently the best thing on TOK is a bad thing on TTYD, because, you know, new Bad Old Gud.
@@JoseViktor4099From what I heard, the music is all excellent, though it definitely feels different than the original. Luckily, we can play the original music if we want.
@@JoseViktor4099 And even if that’s the case, there’s literally an option in the game to switch to the original music like Super Mario RPG with the Nostalgic Tunes badge that seems like it can be obtained early on in the game after beginning a new save file.
Can I get an option to have the old games frame rate too plz@@Matt-eh2dy
You may want to hold your breath on that one until we see the full translation of the game in the west. I'm not saying it's going to be bad...but it looks bad. Especially them switching out Goombella's only big scene to stand up for herself in the original game. Along with the dark humor such as Hooktail being revealed to be a girl in chapter 8 getting taken out (along with a few other things we know about.) I was once extremely excited for this game, but once you look up who is translating it. I fear the writing will just insult the og TTYD fans.
Arlo you have been crushing it with this second channel - keep up the fantastic work!!
Love the topic arlo channel, hearing more of your thoughts of things is always such a treat
I didn't even know the original was 60fps lmao
As long as its a solid 30 I don't care. Its going to be really disappointing if it hits heavy lag moments, particularly if it hurts the timing based fighting. Even if the original ran at 30fps, I would have expected that a pretty basic remake made with technology that is decades newer would be able to sustain what many consider to be the bare minimum for console based gaming
Apparently it is a solid 30 according to reviews, so that’s nice
Considering it will be 30 I hope they make the input timing window to be a little longer than the original. After all Nintendo has been making games easier for the casual audience.
According to reviews it is consistent, however there is evidence of very specific moments having frame rate drops. It’s hard to say how this’ll affect gameplay yet but, if it’s by a lot even if that’s just in those very specific moments… Well, then you have my concern for how this was coded specifically.
@@rezahydraProbably cutscenes so it should be fine.
@@rezahydraProbably cutscenes so it should be fine.
This reminds me of that one guy who was saying that making a console that doesn't run at 4K 60fps minimum was literally criminal at this point, and anyone who replied saying they didn't mind 30fps were all victims of Nintendo's heinous penny-pinching agenda.
I'm dissapointed to see the framerate cut, but not outraged.
So glad we've finally got our beloved game coming out soon so that we can talk about it obsessively!! And I'm glad you made a second channel to make more videos :-)
Maybe I'm insane for this, but when I play a 30 FPS game I straight up can't tell unless I _REALLY_ pay attention. Kirby Star Allies was 30 FPS and I didn't know until years after the game came out when a youtuber (I think Alpharad) somehow noticed it right in the tutorial in a video I watched.
I’m 100% with you the difference is immensely minuscule. I’ve played origami king 3 times and never knew it was 30 until Arlo said it just now!
@@outry_08 the whole stop motion-y style of origami king probably makes it harder to notice that it's 30 fps too, since characters don't have actual "animations"; they just pop to their next pose.
@@jclkaytwo Fr I don't know why most people are complaining; most 'animations' are effectively 2 fps anyway lol
Heck im a PC gamer with his silky smooth 120 frames, and I don't notice unless its a game where I can move the camera (like Zelda ToTK for instance). In which case 60 and up is much more preferable IMO, but its the Switch what you gonna do.
You can tell if you’re playing a first person shooter or a fighting game because you are at a disadvantage if your game is running at 30 in those. It really doesn’t matter in the case of Kirby and the Forgotten Land or Paper Mario TTYD though and as Arlo said, a stable 30fps is better than an unstable 60fps.
Just wanting to say that I love your new channel Arlo! It's really nice being able to hear you a lot more and on a wider variety of topics!
that motion smoothing tv effect is the woooorst
It's on my Grandma's 4k TV and I don't like it either. I'll stick with 1080p 24fps thanks
This is gonna be a long 23 days 😭
The comment below is a copy/paste of an essay length comment I posted on another video.
I think the only reason people are complaining about a switch game running at 30FPS in the year 2024 is because it’s a remake of a 20 year old game that ran at 60. I’ve heard people say something like, “If games like Super Mario Odyssey can run at 60FPS, why can’t TTYD, a remake of a 20 year old game that ran at that frame rate?”, trying to argue that the switch is totally capable of doing such a thing. Now I’m no expert on making games, but I’m pretty sure that there’s more things affecting a game’s performance than just how good it looks graphically. Also, Mario Odyssey and Paper Mario are two very different types of games, and they have very different art styles. Again I’m no game maker expert so I don’t know how these differences in art style, game mechanics and behind the scenes processes affect performance, but it’s something to think about right?
Going back to the point in my first statement… has anyone ever complained about the frame rate in Origami King, like ever. People have said many things about that game, but as far as I can tell, it’s frame rate has never been discussed by either fans or detractors. Historically speaking, 30 FPS in a Paper Mario game has never been an issue for anyone as far as I can tell.
Now, to be fair to the current TTYD remake detractors, I think some people are legitimately worried about how it’ll feel to go from playing a 60FPS game to a 30FPS version of the same game. How will it affect the timing of action commands? See, the thing about Origami King is that even though it is an installment in the Paper Mario series, it’s also an entirely new game so there’s nothing to compare it to directly in those regards. But when TTYD fans play the remake, they’ll be traversing the same map, facing the same enemies, using the same attacks, and defending against the same enemy attacks.The concern now comes from how will it feel in this remake to perform the same actions in the remake vs the original? I mean, it’s gonna mess with your muscle memory for sure and you’ll have to remaster some of those tougher more advanced moves. But I think the real concern is even after you get used to everything, will the lower frame rate still make the gameplay feel inferior to the original? Though it’s worth noting that since this is in fact a remake (not a port), it’s gonna feel different to some extent even if the FPS matches the OG. But I guess the FPS is a major factor in the overall feel too.
Overall, I think this is a valid concern. The only way to know for sure is to try the game yourself.
However, I’ve also seen people that are like, “A remake of a 20 year old game that ran at 60FPS now running at 30FPS? UnACCEPTABLE? Nintendo lazy!”, and go off of that principle alone without taking into account how much it’ll actually affect the game, how many improvements there are, or without taking into consideration the hardware it’s running on. The switch is a very weak console for today’s standards, and since it’s a portable, battery life is something they need to take into account as well.
Okay I’m gonna drop my attempts at having an aura of objectivity for a second in order to say this: Anyone who thinks this remake is “lazy”… Bruh. You gotta be joking, THIS remake. just because of a lower frame rate? Ur silly. Silly goose.
Ok with that out of my system, I feel like when it comes to people with that mentality, their motivations for not supporting the TTYD remake are less about the individual game, and more of a statement about not supporting lazy cash-grab ports/remakes in general. Companies (including Nintendo) have been getting away with charging AAA price for these things for years, so now when these people see just one lacking aspect of a re-release be revealed, they’re immediately like “Nope. Not supporting this BS. Not falling for it. You can do better.”
These are all great points
Ngl im loving the constant uploads with both of these channels now. I like to think it’s because of your good mood you talked about on Twitter
I think the internet and Nintendo fans like to blow everything out of proportion. Yes 60fps is better but the game won’t be ruined by being 30.
The best analogy I can think of is this: it's a classic car that has been beautifully restored, but there's a scratch in the paint.
More like beautifully restored, but it has less horse power in the engine. Takes a bit longer to get going compared to how it was before, but it still does the job.
Yeah more like wheel was removed
@@LegitMLG360noscoper you live in the comments or what bro? Ive seen you a couple of times now lol.
I do it as well, but zamn, at least I try to be positive, going on every comment to say something is bad is not healthy my guy.
@@LegitMLG360noscoper lol no
@@LegitMLG360noscoper????? You’re either trolling, or you’ve never seen a car before if you’re making a statement like that.
Totally understand that people have different priorities regarding games. But if anyone denies themselves the experience of playing a great, special game because it runs at 30FPS and not 60-- that's just unfortunate for them.
Yeah, but when they demonize Nintendo and bully anyone who wants to legally buy this game, that's unfortunate for everyone!
Loving this new channel so far. Keep it coming.
Being totally honest... I have never been able to tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps... so when the big debates happen I end up feeling stupid just because I don't see the difference...
Paper Mario fans: Waahaah, but I don't like Paper Mario TTYD remake!
Nintendo: _THEN WHY DID YOU ASK FOR IT?_
(SpongeBob reference)
Look I can easily tell the difference between 240hz, 165hz, and 60hz as someone that plays a lot of fast pased games. But it's a Nintendo Switch game and it's not a fast pased action game, it's fine it doesn't matter that much. Most my life I lived with bottom tier hardware, 30fps is fine when it makes sense.
Worth mentioning that even while the metroid prime remake was 60 fps, it was 900p resolution
This is also 900p
Nintendo Switch is just full of compromises left and right.
Metroid prime (switch) is a remaster not a remake dude
Isnt it 1080p? Looks pretty crisp to me@LegitMLG360noscoper
@@realgamer3948call it whatever makes you happy, dude.
remakes and remasters should always look better than the original and frame rate is not the only way to do that, the game looks gorgeous and i’m willing to bet it probably runs a lot better than the original when it comes to loading zones and scenes with lots of entities
Ok.... But should it be objectively worse than the original? Of course not.
@@joeykeilholz925 60 fps is not “objectively worse”, some games can actually benefit from a lower frame rate than 60 for various reasons such as fitting the style of the game or making actions smoother or less mechanically intensive. 60 is smoother but can introduce problems you don’t experience with lower frame rates and cannot be classified as “objectively better” it is purely preference
the hit to performance was not worth it for the changes they made. Cool the floors are glossy and the room is darker, id rather the 60 fps
@@NothingHereForYoubut the atmosphere added by the new graphics is so gorgeous. Is it really so wrong to sacrifice some of the frame rate for a turn-based RPG to get it?
@@NothingHereForYou FACTS
I swear people are so picky about Video Games.
True Paper Mario fans understand that this game is a fucking MIRACLE game, the fact that it's even being made is astounding and frankly I'll take what I can get.
I think people are getting more picky because these games just keep getting more expensive. Even the TTYD is over $60 in some areas. So I kind of understand it to a point. People want greatness when your spending sometimes more then a Walt Disney World ticket for some of these games now.
Edit: people will be lucky if they can even get ahold of a physical copy of the game at launch, Nintendo games hold there value too well imo. Hence why people want this remaster, because the real GC game can fetch well over $100 sadly. Though I don't thin kit is going to matter because scalpers are going to make this $100 too.
You don't understand Arlo, the only reason it matters is for inputs. The framerate being halved makes all inputs twice as easy, including guarding and superguarding. It's basically like wearing a simplifier all the time. That's the _only_ reason why it matters.
I personally won't melt away if it releases at 30 fps exclusively, but I hope they separate input window from framerate.
Obviously it wont be a big deal to you or most existing fans but it will turn new folks away like Nintendo always does with underperforming console specs
So being well on track to having the best selling console in the history of gaming is defined as “turning people away” these days?
I don't think people are angry that this game is ruining at 30fps, I think it's a sentiment that's been boiling over for a long time, and it's that ANY game at this day and age, runs at 30fps and CAN'T hit a consistent 60fps. I feel like this point is kinda mute though when you're referring to the Switch. An almost 10 year old piece of hardware that was running on 5 year old hardware when it released. The fact that it even DOES the things it does with the technology that it has is straight up bonkers.
I wish more people would see the *novelty* of what you just said.
Watching the switch play certain games, Its like getting a calculater to cook you a 5 star meal.
That is in it's own right rather impressive, despite the tech hurdles it faces. 🤷♀️
@@GamesareJoy You saw it, that counts lol I can't wait to see what kind of black magic devs can cook up with the switch's successor.
It is kinda lame that the original runs better than the new one but it’s not a deal breaker by any means.
It's not like the gamecube version was a smooth and locked 60... right from the get go there's stutters and slowdowns because they put too many things on screen, and did so multiple times within the first hour of the game...
I think it’s far from a dealbreaker to me, but I’d like to use another beloved game as an allegory for why a lot of people might be disappointed. Bloodborne is one of the best titles on the PS4, and for many one of the best games of all time, yet among all the Souls games that title has perhaps aged the worst directly because of it being locked to 30fps. Granted, it is a completely different style of game, however it is true that an otherwise excellent game can be bogged down as the years go by due to a low framerate. Also, the Super Guards in TTYD are actually quite tight on the timing, so those would really benefit from the additional smoothness!
Arlo you are speaking all my thoughts so well, it doesn't matter at all and in fact enhances the paper aesthetic. I have diehard friends that are passing on it just bc of the framerate.
Love the content, need some outro music to vibe with! I love your main channel outro music. Hard stops give me whiplash.
To put things in perspective, there are points in the original game where dozens of sprites are shown which the Gamecube was able to handle masterfully; something the gaming press marveled at at the time. In the updated version, the paper cutouts for the characters appear to be using 3D models so imagine the Switch rendering those dozens or possibly over a hundred times and you may just understand the reasoning. If I am wrong, please tell me but that is what makes the most sense to me.
It’s… a choice. They probably COULD make it run at 60fps. They didn’t want to. It’s that simple, geez.
@@RaFaPilgrimit’s not that simple lol. “Just hit the 60fps button” is not a thing in game development.
The biggest one of all is the second Punies-vs-Jabbies fight in the Great Tree. Including Mario and his partner, but _not_ including particle fx, there is potentially *_204 entities_* onscreen at the exact same time, all of which are multiple polygons (each segment of character texture is a separate quad). That's absolutely trivial on a _modern PC_ (hell, the average Minecraft terrain vista probably has more quads onscreen, depending on the render distance), but a _friggin miracle_ on the GameCube. _Now imagine each of those character texture segments being a 3D model unto itself_ and you can see why the Switch would _release the magic smoke_ if forced to do the Remastered version of that scene at 60fps. And the devs couldn't just "make certain scenes 30 and the rest of the game 60", then everyone would complain about _laAaAaAag._ So they chose to do the entirely reasonable thing, and lock the entire game to 30fps for consistency.
*_And that is a completely normal and acceptable choice they had the right to do, and does no harm to the rest of the experience._* As long as they compensated for the framerate change when dealing with frame-specific things like guarding, I'm sure people won't even notice the difference once actually playing.
@@RaFaPilgrim They could have made it 60 fps but it would have sucked. It wouldnt look anywhere near as good as it does now and have a lot of framerate dips if it tried to run 60. If you want 60 fps ttyd so bad emulate it.
@@RaFaPilgrim This reeks of ignorance
I've never played TTYD before so I'm not losing out on any frames. It's a turn based RPG anyway so I really don't care as long as the framerate is consistent. Back in the old days of CRT we here in the UK had 50Hz displays, which often meant 25fps for most games, so if you think about it, I'm actually gaining 5 here! 😁
Imagine that you could emulate a game from 20 years ago and get better performance than a remake in 2024. Gaming fell all the way off on this one
And a full priced remake at that 😳
well you're losing 20, although the PAL version supported pal60 so you could get 60fps with the right TV even on the British version
@chiquita683 As another commenter said, this reaks of ignorance.
Turn based with action commands.... Very, very different.
Everyone is talking about how the game is 30 fps, but no one is talking about partners actually being able to turn around and not just stare at the screen(Bowser too)
So glad you made this video. Commenting for engagement, I want more ppl to see it
IMO this is a great example of a late switch era game that's releasing on the base switch buts its true potential will be on Switch 2 (Totk, Pikmin 4, most 3rd parties, etc)
30fps is NOT the true potential of TTYD. It’s not MEANT to run at 60! There are so many reasons behind such a thing, including artistic choice. TTYD could easily run at 60fps, but the devs didn’t want it to - and that’s okay! Geez!
@@RaFaPilgrim if 30 fps isn't ttyd's "true potential", how can it be a artistic choice?
No game when given the option to run at 60fps will not utilize it, the switch just can't handle the remake at 60, and that's ok.
@@dualFace_ The Switch can handle the remake at 60 FPS the devs just chose not to because the higher ups don't want old paper mario to make a comeback.
@@megaman37456 I think it's more likely that the budget wasn't high enough to give the devs time to battle everything required to get consistent 60 FPS.
@@megaman37456 Are you really trying to assume they had a choice when they most likely did not?
my take about this kinda stuff is like, im not a framerate snob, but for a remake specifically, i think 60fps should be a given. kinda the same issue i had with sonic colors ultimate on switch, like that was a goddamn wii game, no reason that shouldnt have been 60fps.
still gonna pick this up, but its far from ideal imo, even if the visuals are spectacular
that's unreasonable imo. if a remake was built from the ground up, it is effectively a "new game", in a developer's sense. remasters and remakes should not be held to the same standard as each other; they're two different categories entirely.
@@jclkaytwo🧢
If it was simply a resolution upgrade from the gamecube version, sure, but the assets and effects are all new, a lot more that needs to get processed in real time
Yeah but… look at it. Don’t get me wrong from an artistic standpoint it looks good, but I don’t think anyone in good faith would look at the game and think “that must tax the switches resources”. Frankly it looks like it’s pushing 1/2 to a 1/3 the resources Prime remake was and it can’t go past 30?
@@Oscar-Guzman what's your deal?
Thank you arlo. I look forward to this video.
The only time I ever think about frame rate is when it lags or is inconsistent. I personally cannot even tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps unless the same footage is side by side one 30 and one 60 and EVEN THEN I have a hard time. I just don't get it man
Massive skill issue.
How is that even possible?!?! It is a drastic night and day difference.
You may have eye issues. It’s very obvious a difference for normal people
Dude get your eyes checked
It’s a world of difference. Literally the same distance between a jpg and a 30fps game.
Most people who claim they can’t see 60 are either liars or are using a cable from the 90s that can’t handle 60fps data.
@@MysteriousStranger50
Most people that say they “get headaches” looking at something that is 30fps or think it looks like a slide show are also liars.
It’s a placebo.
There is a difference, but what matters is if it’s consistent and the game being made around the framerate in mind.
i think a big reason why some people are especially bothered by 30fps is the comparison videos between the original and footage of the remake. when you watch 30fps and 60fps footage simultaneously, the 30fps footage is noticeably choppy, even though it usually looks perfectly fine on its own. it’s really an unfortunate situation considering the remake looks wayyy better than the original visually in any context other than playing both games at the same time (in my opinion)
in fairness also the person in the switch trailer is walking lol
I’m kinda shocked this is happening now and not when the game was first revealed when we all saw it ran at 30 fps. I’m fine with the frame rate since I’m used to games running at it, so it’s not a deal breaker as long as it’s stable 30 fps, I’d rather have that than an unstable 60 like Link’s Awakening
Arlo has been on a roll with banger videos lately
I’m sad that people are acting like such a minor detail is a deal breaker. Games are so much more than their frame rate!
Lol you're in the wrong place then, its exclusively internet people that act like this. 99% of consumers who buy these games don't even know what fps are nor do they care.
@@The_Ostrich
(Edit: nvm his comment is edited to be different now my comment doesn't make much sense anymore)
what? "Internet people?" Who else is going to be buying this game? The Amish? 😭 Also this person is saying they don't like that people are over exaggerating such a small detail, why are you lumping them in with other people
Well it's because it's a remake. This game already exists, so the only reason to play it is because of it's improvements unless you already have it. If it's worse looking than the original then they might as well have just rereleased the original. Menial things like frame rate are a lil more important when we are talking about a game that already exists
@@leontriestoart
Cry
Frame rate is not a minor detail in gaming. It makes or breaks the feel of games.
So we have controversy around catcalling Goombas and the frame rate and there’s still 3 weeks til the release of the game.
The wow factor of a lot of sprites wasn't "only in a few scenes" it was in every battle. The big argument for the game cube as a whole, and the games that showed off it's power explicitly was we measure active models in the hundreds" it is why you can have 100 pickmin, several enemies and a captain all fighting in an area that's not just a white void. For sunshine it was water physics, for Luigi's mansion it was particle effects, for ttyd it was the audience, the mobs and the origami enemies like hook tail.
😢As an Irish man who loves muppets and nintendo, Arlo has finally completed the trifecta by spwaking Gaelic. Never thought id hear arlo try to say Tír na nÓg (land of the young) 🌱
I don't use twitter, so I didn't know this was a controversy, *but* I think it has less to do with 30FPS being a deal breaker for this game and more to do with pent up frustration about the switch itself. It was outdated on release, and its been 7 years. Switch owners are sick of having to deal with increasingly subpar performance. No other modern platform would be stuck running this at 30FPS.
And knowing a new console will be out in a year with potential abilities to increase resolution and frame rate for switch titles. They are treating ttyd like filler content.
God you people need to touch grass
Ha yes the magical console that hasn’t even been announced yet that you people ar convinced is being made
Yep and even voicing stuff like this invites aggression from Nintendo fans who get angry when anyone even mentions how underpowered the Switch is.
@@stevenhedge2850 Ah yes, because if everybody doesn't know something is being made from the moment it's conceived it obviously doesn't exist and we should write off and ignore any and all corroborating evidence of it existing from completely unrelated sources who have no incentive to lie but are also all evil misinformation spreading grifters who all want to take your money.
GUYS, I SWEAR THEY'RE NOT WORKING ON SWITCH 2! I'M THE SANE ONE HERE! YOU GOTTA BELIEVE ME!
Me with the secret technique of not being able to see the difference:
Lmao same! Like I can tell if the frame rate drops to like 5FPS but otherwise how are other people perceiving reality at that speed?
@@Squirmychairvery easy, you also can't tell from the RUclips video btw unless the device you have supports 60fps and the video is in 60fps
But regardless I don't care that the ttyd remake is 30fps
I also can't see the difference 😅
As someone who is sensitive to frame rate and can definitely tell the difference between 30, 60 and 120, this is WILD. Until recently I just figured people were making it up or just incapable of articulating how they saw things. But it IS true and it blows my mind even more.
I do remember really loving how responsive and snappy the original TTYD felt when playing - I just didn't know that 60 fps was a part of that back then. It really felt like I had to nail some of the harder action commands such as Power Bounce or Superguard perfectly on just the right instant, and that instant felt perfectly tied to the action taking place on screen. Nailing a critical Superguard or getting a rediculous Power Bounce felt SO SATISFYING as a result. I don't remember a single moment feeling like I was 100% sure I nailed an action command that had been unsuccessful, and that there must desync between the visuals and what the game was asking me.
Of course, I didn't understand the concept of FPS at all, let alone that Superguards were difficult because they demanded a 3 frame window input, compared to an 8 frame window for regular guards. I didn't understand that part of that snappy feeling was incredible work done reducing input lag between the controller and my old CRT display, and I didn't understand how having 60 FPS allowed the devs to finely tune the timing of what they wanted the player to do and when. I didn't need to know all of that, it just felt responsive and smooth - the layer between the game and me slid away, and it was so easy to feel immersed.
The thing is, I also understand that this game runs on a fundamentally different platform. My old GC controller was wired, the video output was analog, and the CRT television had no middle processing needed to convert the signal into a display. The Switch has digital controllers that run on Bluetooth, the video output is digital, and they can't control the degree of input lag on a player's potentially shitty Walmart Black Friday TV. 60 FPS is a smaller slice of that original TTYD feel compared to the rest of that combined. So long as the devs have paid close attention to the moment-to-moment feel of the game and rebalanced the action commands to tie what's happening on screen to my controller, without sacrificing that brutally difficult skill ceiling that felt so rewarding, I'll be a happy gamer.
I still have hopes that I'll still enjoy this.
I never got to play the original, but after playing PM64 on the Wii VC, Super Paper Mario and playing Origami King, I needed to catch up with this one.
I’m somewhere in-between Arlo’s take and the people getting upset.
While I agree it’s not a big deal, I also think it’s kinda absurd that *Paper Mario* in the year 2024 is 30fps 😶
I can see what you mean in terms of TTYD being 30fps but for the series as a whole, its been 30fps since Sticker Star. In fact the reason the remake is in 30fps may be because it might use the Origami King engine.
Well really its the year 2017 or so, because thats how old the hardware is.
@@wumpyjumps So...the series has been in 30fps ever since it started to suck? Glad to know TTYD can get the same treatment.
@@MrWhygodwhyThe og Paper Mario on 64 ran at 30 fps too. Original TTYD is literally the outlier in this regard.
@@TravelocityKirbysuper paper mario also ran at 60fps, plus 64's combat felt sluggish due to it being 30fps. Part of what made TTYD's combat so satisfying was the silky smooth 60fps. Animations felt kinetic and smooth.
I think most people talking about no 60fps don’t realize how much better the lighting engine is or how resource expensive lighting operations can be.
so they are blind i guess
Or the fact that most of the models in the original were just a few completely 2d models, and now every model (even the NPCs) are actual 3d objects
Or how lacking in resources the Switch is lol
They could have just targeted the same frame rate as the game they are remaking and make visual improvements up to the point that it still maintains the original frame rate.
@@LegitMLG360noscoperYES! Thank you. Everyone just assumes its an FPS snob thing and that I must think nintendo is technologically challeneged. For me its just a priorities thing. Id take a hit to the visuals in exchange for the FPS, thats all.
It's simple I pay 60 dollars for game that came out in 2001 I want it to be running above average not half of what it used to. I can't bring myself to buy any game Nintendo has made in almost 5 years now because of this issue.
1. It came out in 2004.
2. The remake doesn't even LOOK bad in the slightest!
Nobody will notice. I have to take people's word for the fps because I can't tell the difference between 30 or 120. But I don't play brain dead shooters or fps of any kind. No fighters, racing, sports
It’s still a downgrade but not a dealbreaker
“Games that aren’t a constant 60fps are unplayable” - some people
Here’s my response: Grow the fuck up ❤
Why does any game need to be a stable 60 fps except for competitive games? Fr.
If the retro purists don't like the 30 fps, then they should just play the original lol. Or if they are so technically inclined, they should buy a copy of the game and dump it to run in an emulator with 60 fps patches and overclocking. I don't see how this is such a major issue. If there weren't graphical improvements to the game, 60 fps would make sense, but clearly, Nintendo wanted to push the switch to its limits to maintain a sharper and more refined visual style for TTYD. I love playing games at 60 fps, but this is just rediculous. Plenty of games work well at 30 fps, and as Arlo said, it can even add to the cinematic papery look and feel.
Not a dealbreaker, but the idea it doesn't matter at all is kinda bullshit. It'd be nice if it had a performance mode like games on PS5 do. Personally I'd take worse graphics at 60 over better graphics at 30 any day.
I wouldn’t. Especially since there is nothing wrong with a game that runs at 30fps. And there’s barely even a difference.
Like just look how absolutely beautiful the remake looks. It being 60fps wouldn’t change a single thing about it except if it actually ended up running worse than it would at 30fps.
Nah man, TTYD Remake looks so beautiful. I wouldn't want them to comprise ANYTHING If it meant the game can't look as good as it does. A small price to pay, a near MICROSCOPIC one, to pay for salvation!
Besides, you won't notice it during regular gameplay. Review outlets so far haven't either, no complaints from even them. Nobody noticed it (or even cared) for the last three Paper Mario games, whether the OG had 60 FPS of not won't make a difference.
@@RJS2003Yeah bro, who cares if the performance is probably crap and worse than the 20 year old game it’s based on. As long as the remake has pretty lights and colors, that are fun to look at. We love sacrificing actual quality for games that are only good to look at, and not play!
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 Emphasis on the word *_probably._* Have you played it yet? Have you noticed anything wrong with it? Are you a reviewer?
Dare I say the game would be WORSE at 60FPS. They could only do it in the first place because the GameCube version is nowhere near as graphically complex as its remake, it's got reflective textures and new lighting and a lot of other little bells and whistles that put pressure on the frame rate, trying to get it running at 60FPS is actively a detriment and a waste of dev time and resources. It is not a worthwhile priority.
Other developers from other studios, people who actually MAKE games, have made Twitter threads sympathizing with the Paper Mario dev's choice. This nothingburger non-discussion about frame rate objectively comes from a place of ignorance. You don't know what you're talking about, you've never made a game, so stop it. Don't try and act like the perfectly functional frame rate of this game is somehow a deal-breaker. It isn't.
god dude looking in the comments of this video makes me so annoyed why are people so annoying why cant people just enjoy this cool good game
TopicArlo is for finding out about discourses that I didn't even know were happening
I'm still going to buy it but I do hope it's not choppy and is a 100% stable 30fps on the battles.
I remember playing the first paper Mario game on Nintendo online service and that one lava pirana boss battle was super choppy and crashed on me lol.
It's not a dealbreaker, but it is an annoying detractor. Really hoping that Nintendo can hit a native 1080p and 60fps regularly on their next system; it's the least we can ask by today's standards.
im sorry arlo this is an L take, and you are nostalgia blind and blinded by the hope you never thought would happen
What's an an L take?
@@professorpengu502 L means loss, or a bad take.
It's basically young Gen Z/Alpha slang, where they arbitrarily pick words at random and change them for no reason: cooked, cracked, goated, cap, clap, etc.
@@AkameGaKillfan777 I know that I'm asking what the "l take" is
I honestly don’t mind that much, still gonna buy the game regardless. Would prefer 60fps but it’s not a deal breaker. But I will say, nintendo making first party games 30fps in 2024 is kinda crazy. Especially when the game is a remake, a 20 year old game remake. Hoping the next switch will have a model for core gamers that want more features. This would probably help with piracy as well because some people use an emulator solely because it can produce a better experience than the switch can offer.
Thank you for being the voice of reason. This is how I've felt about framegate from the start.
Lol Framegate. 😂
Good one!
As long as games are able to hit that target consistently, it’s not an issue. Even still, there are games that don’t perform the best that I still love.
Link’s Awakening remake stutters quite often, but it’s still a fun experience that fixed a lot of issues the original had.
Getting a Steam Deck and running different games at different FPS and graphical settings has desensitized me a little bit. Little bit of stutter or ugly models don’t bother me too badly. Gameplay is king 90% of the time (to me at least. Other people may think differently).
Link's Awakening remake stutters so much that the entire game is ruined, you could not pay me to play that terrible version again. And it's weird that you say that gameplay is king to defend bad framerate, because gameplay is the thing that suffers most from bad framerate. When the framerate is dropping, when the game is constantly slowing down, it's not fun to play anymore. It's ruined.
@@mjc0961 I think it largely depends on the game. If I’m playing a fighting game or platformer, I need stable 60 all day. But a top down action game or RPG doesn’t suffer as far as gameplay when it comes to that for me.
Should developers prioritize stability? 100%, and especially for a top down game like Link’s Awakening stutter is beyond ridiculous, but I can personally live with it is all I meant. I know it varies heavily from person to person. Console games have no excuse though. I’m mainly used to it after tinkering with running games at different settings on a device that’s adjacent to the PC experience.
If TTYD remake runs at a consistent 30, it’s not really a bad thing, it’s just a difference from the original.
I've been playing Color Splash, and that game still has bad moments with 30 FPS. I just got to the Morton fight and when he lights his hammer on fire, the frame rate CHUGS. I definitely wouldn't want moments like that in TTYD because they tried to hit 60.
You can play that game with 60 fps on WiiU as well. You need homebrew though. And you need to mod your WiiU. Just like Botw can be played with 60-100 fps on WiiU as well.
Whenever these conversations come up i always remember that i played Shadow of the Colossus for PS2 and had a genuinely amazing time.
I am also of the mind that a stable 30fps is better than an inconsistent 40-60fps. When those frames drop, you notice it.
Yeah since switch lacks variable refresh rate entirely. Which is awful in 2024!
@@joeykeilholz925 How dare the 2017 console lack a feature that should be standard in 2024!!! And you shouldn't have to rely on variable refresh rate
My only issue is that I struggle to see how a game like this wouldn't be able to keep a steady 60FPS. It doesn't look that graphically intensive. Just comes off as poor optimization.
@@JuniperGreen162 I think there is a lot going on to make it look the way it does, more than one would assume. That being said, I do think that cutting some of the more fancy graphical effects could get this to 60 without losing much of its visual identity
@@JuniperGreen16213:35 This entire segment of the video is coming straight from a game developer explaining how a game can “seem” like it isn’t graphically intensive but still have a lot of stuff going on, some related to the graphics, some not at all. Even with the best optimization possible, you’re still always going to be bottlenecked by the system you’re creating for.
This entire discussion of the frame rate left me with more questions...
I refuse to take a side, i just wanna play the game.
I think that a decent compromise would be to target 60 fps in the battles. That is the one thing that kinda sucks, that the timing of different actions commands will be different. I know that people will be able to adjust to the different timing, but it still sucks that the experience has technically changed in that regard.
The fact that this debate even exists is just sad.
I can’t imagine how the developers feel. Remaking a game that many fans wanted a remake of and being called lazy. That’s gotta hurt BAD!!!
It’s even worse when you realize that there was probably a lot of love put into the remake based on all the improvements they made (like the new warp room)
I find this sorta disingenuous... you are a guy who appreciates fidelity on other systems, and admit the Switch is pretty old and lacking in power, but are fine with this... it's just weird is all
This game came out in like 2004. I played it on an old fat back tv set like many people did. Did those things even output 60fps? I'd venture a guess that very few people who played the original actually even played at that high frame rate.
Well i looked it up and it turns out old tvs did run at 60hz. So i guess we were playing with that framerate. Huh.
Yes! A jarring framerate that shifts too drastically I feel is worse than one that is constantly low. I definitely agree that 60FPS isn’t a necessity given the sort of gameplay, it doesn’t bother me especially because of the changes that were made visually. I feel like that game series such as Zelda with everything going on with combat/exploration, definitely gets a lot more from being 60FPS.
Honestly for a game that's running at 30 fps, i literally never noticed, it doesn't even LOOK like its below 30 most times, its the most 60fps thats actually 30fps looking game I've seen.
no matter the fps though, I'm still gonna buy this game and enjoy it with all my soul.
I think this just means you don't know how to detect fps
I hate that the fps is at 30 and apparently they censored some dialogue and parts of the game. But! I’m still very excited for this game and the fact that we are getting this at all is a win. Sometimes you gotta pick your battles I suppose. I picked up new the NYXI Warrior controller specifically to play with this game, I can not wait!
Hopefully this game sells like crazy and we get more games in this style.