The level of pure science, and objective facts in his videos always astounds me. I show Paul to others who think he’s boring, but he’s one of my favorites.
I know this is an old comment, but I really do love Paul's methods. Too many times I feel like I'm being told what to belive, even if what I'm seeing is telling me something else. "You be the judge" let's us come to our own conclusions, without coming off as preachy.
Local Idaho grocer. "Harrell just pulled up. We need 30 pounds of baby backs, eighteen watermelons and a case of hog's ears up front, please." Harrell, "And don't forget the Shasta!"
You should see it when he shows up to our crawfish boils, shooting up the boiling pots and starts ranting about blackpowder guns and their barrier penetration all the while random bullets whizzing over our heads
I came to Paul's channel for several reasons: 1. He knows what he is talking about. 2. His approach is fact based, never "because I said so". 3. He always finishes with "make up your own mind. 4. I watched his analysis of the FBI massacre in Florida, and found it to be compelling. Even after watching the FBI's own analysis. Lets face it, Paul is right up there with anyone on youtube for his intelligent approach, and his respect for viewers. I am going over to Patreon right now!
agree, Paul is at the top. I like Hicock45 also, both have different style with a different intent. Hicock's review which aren't really a solid review will give good points and draw backs but more over shows the functioning of the weapon in usually good detail. when choosing a platform or cartridge, watch both of these guys and you'll come away with a great overall understanding of what your looking at. of course, neither can beat going to a gun shop and shooting first, but a great place to start. lastly, I can only wish I could shoot as good as either one of these guys...
An idea my dad introduced me to when I was a wee childe is "The point of diminishing returns." At low levels, when you spend more you get a lot for it. At high levels, when you spend more you get a teensy bit for it. With everything you buy, there's a crossover point between how much you spend and how much you get back for that expense. That's the point of diminishing returns. If you think about it, it shows up all over the place in life.
Yes that is true but some rounds are made for a specific caliber In mind let's take a look at the hst seems like heavy for caliber doesnt perform well maybe in this case a light projectile would change performance best 9mm I've heard is the 9mm plus p 124 gr hst so same coat as the 147 but seems to have a better reputation
@@av0wvos Not really. There may be variations but average of four shots is pretty obvious. Nothing difficult to see here at all. The 45acp is about twice as devastating. Which is not surprising if we look at the Army's original early 20thC 'meat tests" they did with animal carcasses.
Ballistic Gel isn't supposed to be "real world" anything. It's just supposed to be a consistent medium to test ammo in. Why does everyone think it's supposed to be anything else?
Hail to The_Rooster nah, yankee marshall has too much ego. I quit watching him when he started going on rants about specific other youtubers. Because honestly I DON'T CARE that his feelings got hurt.
Yankee Marshall is a moron, one of those guys that just sits around molesting his guns all day. You will rarely see a Yankee Marshall video where he is actually shooting.
My problem with Yankee began with his inconsistency on caliber preference and when someone pointed out that in his videos he generally pisses on everything about calibers making it very moot to take his advice on what a curious mind might ask for what to look for. For example, 9mm was too underpowered, 40 was not his favorite, 380 was eh, 45 had too much kickback, 22 does jack, etc etc. Not to mention heavily vague on his debate between carrying a revolver, DA/SA hammer, or striker fire. I can not trust a man who puts on the airs of seasoned expert but forces very indecisive opinions about his field of supposed knowledge.
YM thinks he's as funny as he looks, which is fine if it tickles him but I cannot take him seriously. Gave up on tapping his experience and opinions for valid reasons a LONG time ago. Is he really still going? Wow
I learned two things from this video. One, don't believe everything you read about fancy (read: expensive) ammo. And two, I really need to get a 1911 .45.
This is a real eye opener. I usually stick to Hydra-Shocks or Silver Tips for my carry loads, always have. I bought some really expensive stuff for my .380 trying to compensate but now I'm questioning it. I can't afford to do these tests myself so thank you soooo much for doing all your videos. Be blessed & safe.
The one thing I've learned from all your videos is that fleece is bullet proof! I'm just going to wear my fleece pullover everywhere all the time and dare the bad guys to shoot me. Great video again!
Hi Paul. Good video. I enjoyed seeing my carry load in .45 ACP used on the "meat target", which I think is pretty realistic. I DO have Commanders, and for what it is worth, the 230 grain HST clocks right at 800 fps average from both of mine. So it is a bit pokey but it seems to work. I chose it because it was my last department's duty load and I have a good source for it. In my testing it expands just a tiny bit better than Gold Dot, but penetrates a tiny bit less, and it is very controllable. But to tell the truth, it's sort of hard to buy a bad .45 ACP JHP load from any major manufacturer. I pay about $28 for 50 rounds online. As for the 9mm, I came to the same conclusion you did about the 150 grain HST load. Federal was going for an expanding niche audience with this load, since they had a perfectly good 147 grain HST load aimed at law enforcement which exits the muzzle of my M&P 9C at about 975 fps, and a standard pressure 124 grain and a 124 grain +P that exit the same gun at roughly 1100 and 1150 respectively. I buy either one that is available. Expansion with the 124 grainers has been fine even in my little Kahr pistol which spits out the standard pressure load at something around 1075 fps. I pay about $26 for 50 rounds of 9mm HST. For what it is worth, Federal says the 150 grain load is designed for use in ultra-small 9mm pocket guns carried by civilians and that control of recoil in very light guns was their priority. It is reduced from their other HST loadings by design. I think two things. First, that you are right that there is not as big a difference between the premium lines of ammunition and standard stuff from the same people, except maybe in the amount of barrier testing that the LE lines get. All our carry ammo has gotten better over the last 20 years, and the differences are not as great as they once were. The second thing that I think is that the 150 grain HST load, developed by Federal for civilian use in "Micro pistols" as they put it, was designed with extremely low recoil in mind, and is a very slow round designed for people without much experience to shoot in little tiny pistols. I don't think it is really representative of the HST product. Thanks so much for making these videos. You save all of us lots of work, knowing that someone trustworthy is doing various relevant tests that we are curious about.
Many agencies are using 147 grain loads in service 9mm pistols. Federal discontinued the +P 147 grain since the standard pressure load penetration is better. I would highly recommend the +P 124 grain Gold Dot and +P HST Or Golden Saber +P. The older +P+ 115 Federal 9BPLE was an excellent load when it was used back in the 80’s and early 90’s. The Winchester 147 grain Subsonic controlled expansion loads that replaced the 115 grain and 124 grain service ammunition in many LE agencies proved it was lacking in performance. Newer ammunition has definitely improved since the 90’s.
Growing up I could rewatch a show time and time again with it never getting old. It's been a long time since I've found a show good enough to rewatch episode after episode, but the Paul Harrell channel accomplishes this quality programming over and over. Thanks for the quality information and neverending entertainment.
After watching paul's videos I love the fact theres no bullshit. Straight forward information based on his expertise and personal experience. Thanks for being a straight shooter paul
l have slept less than 14 hours in the last three days combined, now l'd have the time to sleep, but a video from Paul comes up. Is this more important than getting some sleep? You be the judge.
Well, the HST didn't blow me away but I was impressed with the general thumping ability of the 45acp over the 9mm! And, as always, your meat targets were great for giving us that real-world view that chronographs simply can't show. Your local grocery store must love it when they see you drive up. Pig ears... Great video, again!
Paul I also want to say that I'm impressed that you posted this video. it shows that you are committed to the truth of your findings even though you knew it would go against the popular opinion. I really admire that about you. you've held to that consistently throughout you're videos and it's doesn't go unapreciated!
When you want the truth of firearms watch Paul. He does real comparisons between equals. Not completely biased videos to make the desired product look good no matter what, like some others. In short you can trust Paul to show you the real world, not showy garbage to get you to buy something.
It could save you a lot of money when you don't buy the latest and greatest ammo. There is a reason WWB and Golden Sabers have been around for so long.
Really great demonstration Paul. I can only imagine the amount of work involved in putting one of your videos together. Thanks for the hard work, it's greatly appreciated.
I honestly think at this point that I can learn everything I need about guns I want but don't need or guns/ammo that will be best for the uses I want by looking at your page and searching for topics. Seriously thank you for taking all the time informing us here. No one else I see here over the years has such a thorough way of educating people on guns and ammo.
I really like your videos Paul. They are more.... Professional; and different than the other channels. Straight to the point, creative, interesting and very educational to watch and think about. I am Glad I am a subscriber to Your channel.
dean jones id rather have a fast flying 9mm that will always expand even if the range is a little further out or theres thick clothing on. 45 is too slow and fat to be effective like a 9 or a 40
nothing wrong with .45 ACP, it is a good round and so is the 9mm. It comes down to in some cases which one can you shoot the best and go with it. Personally, I like the 10mm.
C MJ 10mm is a great round but too much recoil for me, personally I prefer more shots on target vs greater energy and marginal gains in bullet diameter. For me federal HST 124 grain in my glock 19 is all all I need for self defense, though i do carry a ruger gp100 when im in the bear woods
Another fantastic video Paul! I love the lengths and detail you go to in your videos giving the viewer the chance to form their own opinions. I'd love to see a .40 S&W vs .45 ACP video along the same lines as this video or your 9mm vs .40 S&W. Keep up the good work!
Being an old guy getting back into shooting and in the market for self defense ammo, I appreciate the effort and expense that you put into this video. Just found your site and subscribed. I’ll be watching more of your videos.
Some of my favorite RUclips channels I can pause and finish watching it a day or two later. But Paul's are so interesting and informative I have to watch them from start to finish.
The man is just endlessly knowledgeable, fair minded and logical. This was a test that is hard to ignore. I appreciate the .45 acp information. So much more 9mm information out there.
Agree with what others are saying, the 150gr "short barrel" HST is not representative of the performance of the 147 and 124 grain loads in 9mm. tnoutdoors9 here on RUclips has some good testing on the other weights and standard vs +P loadings. My personal carry is 147gr standard pressure as it seems to be the best performer and has respectable performance out of various barrel lengths. Keep up the great videos Paul.
The 150 gr. is well underloaded for reduced recoil and flash. The 147 and 124 performed very well in ShootingtheBull410's 9mm Ammo Quest series, and Lucky Gunner's tests.
First of all , thank you for putting this together. Very informative and your meat target is an excellent demonstration tool. This is much better than the cookie cutter gel tests and much more indicative of what a round will do in a body. Again thanks for your hard work.
Fred Schwartz Except that he compared the HST micro 9mm load against the standard loads and lighter bullet wieghts of the other brands. Not even close to a fair comparison in 9mm.
Paul Harrell No I'm not Paul. The micro is a different bullet design that supposedly expands with less velocity and the velocity on those is lowered or as their website says "optimized for less felt recoil". It is marketed towards people who buy small handguns not foreseeing how much recoil they will feel so they go to a low recoil ammo. They are NOT the same load or velocity as regular HST so not only is the round intentionally lower velocity the heavier bullet slows it down too so that's why you got performance out of the micro that was so poor compared to the others and yet the .45 compared well with the others. Go read Federals product description of the micro HST on their website.
hey paul just wanted to say you make great content, really knowledgeable, and don't seem biased towards common belief. you test and say what seems to me to be realistic. I appreciate your work and thank you.
I was also underwhelmed by the Federal 150-gr Micro HST rounds when I tested them with my short-barreled Diamondback. The 124-gr HST service ammo is far more effective, and costs around $25 for a 50-rd box.
@@Levi_shep That's the best 9mm self defense ammo. Nothing is better than that. Especially when the 124 +p hst performs very well in any barrel length. It's truly the superior ammo for 9x19
HST 124 and 147 grain JHP's are pretty much the gold standard of 9mm SD ammo. Why they came out with 150 grain is anyone's guess but I can't imagine anyone buying it.
Happiness is a gun presenter that makes me feel welcome and respected... and provides top notch information backed by as realistic methods as possible. Kudos, sir. :) I'm broke as hell, but the desire to support *is* there... and I can't possibly be broke forever, right? Right?!
I've used all of those in my SA. 1911 and have been using the Winchester white box for a year now. I really appreciate this video. Thank you. And at 33$a box I can afford to train with what I carry. Win win situation
Thanks to you, Paul, I feel much more comfortable carrying Remington green & white box ammo. That's what I always buy, anyway. I like to shoot, so I don't waste a lot of money on marketed ammo. Becoming more efficient with your weapon, is wayyyyy more important than carrying high dollar ammo. Great video, as always!!!! You're my favorite gun channel.
I'd love to see a video on how significant the differences are between standard ammo and +P's and how they perform in regard to accuracy, penetration, and shootability (recoil). I would especially like to see one done on the +P's in .45 acp.
Hey Paul, Just wanted to let you know that I just shot expert with the M9 at a range the other day. I haven't touched one of those since I was stationed in Ft. Knox and that was back in 2011. Your videos really helped and I just want to say thanks.
Paul Harrell paul i love all ur videos can u please test RIP ammo on the meat target in 9mm and 45acp The RIP is also called radicaly invasive projectile thanks for everything 0331
Thanks for another great video! And, thanks for challenging once again the dogma of hyper-ammo. Lots of "experts" swear by it, but almost none of them offer proof of the superiority of that choice.
Oh? What kind of proof? Perhaps years of testing with calibrated gel blocks? Or dozens of OIS reports and autopsies that experts have observed firsthand?
Thank you for explaining why you purchase in stores as opposed to on line. I recently started purchasing standard hollow point ammo but now you have me thinking that I need to test it. Wish I could just ship you a few boxes to run through your tests.
Poker Channel I doubt anybody can truly answer that but you. There are a lot of people who will tell you what you should carry, but you need to try and train with different pistols under your carry restrictions. Personally, I've shot the the G21 and don't like it. But I love the Colt Commander. Fits me better. But that's me. I don't really like the feel of most glocks. Given the option, I'd probably find a .40S&W with a 4.25" barrel that fit my hand well, then fill it with 180 gr polymer-tipped JHP. A nice sweet spot between 124gr 9mm and 230gr 45ACP. But again, that's just me.
yeah. the .40 is a good option. I would experiement with .40 in a 165 grain for the higher velocity. I think .40 such as a 22 cut down to the size of a 27 (ie a glock 22 cut the grip to make a 27 LL). That may be super good. .40 is a good round. I might be looking for a glock 22 to cut to 27. I already have a 27 and a 26 and a 42 and 43. The next one might be a 22 instead of a glock 30. hey btw, I got my sons shooting a airsoft pistol yesterday. They loved it. They were shooting cans and knocking them down with a pistol at 7 to 8 yards!!!! and they are learning proper gun safety. and having fun. they are 7 and 12 y/o. air soflt is a good way!!! right?
Poker Channel The G22 is the Glock I enjoyed the most, probably because I was more accurate with it. The G23 is ok too, but my mitts are a little too big for anything smaller. I'd need a mag plate extension to hold the 27 properly. But we can't conceal or open carry here in Canada, so it's not an issue anyway. We can only use pistols at a certified range, and barrel length must be 4.18" or longer. Our "compacts" all have an extra 1/2"+ of barrel sticking out past the slide. Our silly gun laws make our guns look silly. But if I could carry, I'd love a Sig P228 (180gr or 165gr....hmm) or a 1911 Commander in 45 with 185gr JHP. So cool your kids enjoy plinking. My brother and I got started around 5&6 yrs old with pellet rifles. Shooting sports are great for kids, too. Especially if they are exposed to firearms in the home. Teach 'em safe, teach 'em young and everyone has fun! They're going to wanr a .22 or shotgun soon 😁
Yeah, if you follow this sort of thing, you know how well the 147s and 124s perform in gel. I was hoping to see how well they perform in real meat and bone.
Paul I would love to see you test the 9mm Underwood 90 grain Extreme Defender on the meat target. A lot of testing in gel has shown it to be equal in wound cavity and superior in penetration to the best hollow points. I believe your meat target is a more realistic test media.
Great points as always. I am consistently seeing in your videos that "standard" hp's like the Win white box or the Rem UMC perform surprisingly well. Based on this, other testing you have done, and other testing from other sources, the 124 gr seems to be the way to go in 9mm. I know that NYPD and other agencies have gotten great results fron the Gold Dot 124 gr +p, and the standard pressure load does well too. 147's have always seemed a little iffy, especially in shorter barrels, although the Golden Sabers did well here. You always do a great job sorting out the facts from conjecture, assumptions, and marketing hype. Thank you for all your work.
Paul I was really exited to see you made a video about HST but the air went out as soon as you said HST 150gr. That stuff does not measure up to the 124 and 147gr HST. Also no surprise all of the ammo in .45 acp performed well out of the long barell gun. What about how they would compare out of a short barrel? The 150gr HST is labeled "micro" and is probably a less hot load and supposedly supposed to expand with less velocity so it isn't the same specs as HST 124 and 147 grain. I'm not saying HST is more bang for your buck but the 9mm comparison was not fair when you are using the micro ammo against regular ammo and not only that the bullet wieghts are not the same.
@B real "tested again with more closely comparable guns and ammo"??? he wasnt testing the 9mm vs the 45 he was testing the different ammo vs different companies so the guns had nothing to do with it. as far as barrel length the longest you can carry will be the best as it will be easier to aim and will give faster speed to the rounds
@B real this was my gun answer. as far as barrel length the longest you can carry will be the best as it will be easier to aim and will give faster speed to the rounds. i know what he said. thats why i said this, you saying you wanted more comparable guns after he made the point was not needed. everybody doesnt carry the same size guns so this is good for 30% 40%x 50%? who knows so it was a good comparison of the ammo brands for that length gun
Brandon Lee, you're correct. Comparing the HST 150gr to the other 9MM rounds is apples to oranges. Federal intentionally loads HST 150s to have a 100 fps lower velocity than the 147s, as stated on their website, because the 150 is designed for lower recoil. If you take a look at ShootingTheBull's Ammo Quest videos (using a 3" barrel), you'll see that the HST 147s indeed have the higher velocity, and do expand consistently in the tests. Interestingly, when STB tested the slower HST 150, one round (of four through denim) did not expand.
Great video, nice to see what a round does to something besides ballistics gel. Glad I found your channel, it's nice to see a regular gun enthusiast. Don't envy your grocery bill though!!
As always love your videos. I carry several pistols 9x19, 40 s&w and 357 sig in the two 9mm's I use the gold dot or hst 124 grain rds as high a pressure as I can get in the 9x19 and underwood or my handloads in the Sig and hst or gold dot in the .40 all 180 grain. Love your channel and your tests.
Gs Wovoka lol what a pos gun u choose. I choose 10mm and 41 mag. I have better guns and calibers than you and better training. Im just better at guns than you. Idiot
Thanks for sharing your videos and keep them coming please. I value your tests and opinions more than anyone else on RUclips especially those just using gelatin.
The 150 grain 9mm HST is known to be a poor performer. It's a recent edition to the line. It's significantly slower then the other loadings. The 147 grain std pressure is 1000 fps out of a 4" barrel and expands and penetrates consistently. Also find the LE versions online you get 50 in a box for around $25. The second I heard you say 150 grain I was like ugh it's going to suck.
Well I don't think he was biased. He probably went to the store and grabbed a box of HST and didn't realize he was picking up one of the worst performing HSTs and maybe the worst performing JHP that's come out in the past 5 years. Or maybe I'm totally wrong and HSTs do suck and the dozen or so other tests I've seen in ballistics gel are bad.
I picked up the only HST ammo they had. And I went to a couple of stores. I figured the difference between the Remington 147 and the HST 150 is pretty damned close. Even if you remove the 9MM segment from this vid, the .45 wasn't exactly a stellar performed either.
Paul Harrell The HST 147 or 124 gr would not perform poorly like the HST 150 micro. I don't disagree that maybe HST isn't worth it if you can't get a good deal but they are not bad unless you are using the 150 micro.
Gotta say I'm a big fan, I for one appreciate your no BS full analysis of real world statistics and scenarios. Thank you for the extra details (I know you've caught greif for long explanations by some trolls) it's like listening to a good teacher who knows how to get the point across without coming off like a a-hole know-it-all!
Excellent video. I've tested the 147 grain 9mm +p out of my shield and out of my CZ75b versus some cast lead hollow points (155 grain 357 mag chronographed at 1450 out of a 5" barrel) The cheapo hollow pointed cast lead (with top end 357 mag loading) significantly outperformed the HST in 9mm +p
I had these for a while in 9mm, I did the test where you fired your carry weapon as you've had it - I carry a taurus m9 clone (I keep it immaculate as a habit), and these HST's had multiple (3)/19rds FTE malfunctions, when I had had 0 malfunctions/~1300 rounds of ball ammo. Maybe it was just a weird instance for the pistol or some other factor, but it made me want to get rid of these (had fun shooting them anyway at the range), and I later got some Remington green and white HPs and those fed great and so I've stuck with them. Thanks for the videos as always Paul :)
I must say that I like the way that you come off target after each shot, dropping the muzzle rather than pulling straight back to the chest as seems to be popular these days. I never got comfortable bringing the handgun straight back. I think I will practice your technique to see if it feels more natural. It certainly seems easier to keep the handgun more at the ready after each shot.
Damn Dogs Well it depends on what your training. The pulling straight back is to make sure no one can grab for your gun while you assess the situation. The closer the gun to your chest the better control you have if someone is trying to yank the gun from you.
Interesting video Paul, I have to admit im a bit of an HST fan it always looks so impressive in gel. What I took away from this video is that #1 bullets perform much diffrenty in a mixed media vs a sterile media like gel. #2 45 caliber is the way to go if you can carry it vs 9mm. #3 Even your basic hollow points work well. For me since a hand gun is already a compromised round I'm looking for every advantage I can get when carrying a hand gun so I'm willing to spend a little more for ammo if it offers some advantage. Also buying ammo at the brick and mortar stores is usually expensive. I've gotten some really good deals on hst on line for a box of 50 for much less than you paid for a box of 20 or 25. I like to support my local shops but when you're talking about a mark up of a %100 I have to go with the on line option even with shipping cost.
Very good points. I don't buy a lot of ammo on line because so many people don't like to shop on line so I like to go with what I find at the store. However the pendulum is swinging and these days a lot more people are willing to shop for ammo online and I'll start doing it too.
Put me in the same camp as mrelectron62. I bought hundreds and hundreds of rounds of HST, and also of its best competitors like the ranger T, Gold Dot and even Golden Saber (although I mostly stock HST). It was based on gel performance, LE testing and street results. HST is supposedly THE round to have right now. Well, consider me schooled. Like mrelectron62 I don't regret my choice due to the low online prices (less than $30 for 50 in .45) and the little edge. But this was an eye opener for me. It looks like manufacturers have gotten very good at gaming the FBI test protocols to make their bullets look like winners with a few tweaks. The fact that those tests are used to claim that a 9mm works just as well as a .45 should've been a clue.
@@mynameislegion7144 Doc Gary Roberts seems to be an extremely well-respected person in the field of ballistic performance and I believe you can still find the FBI approved list online. As for ammo cost, unfortunately, I just don't buy ammo from gun or sporting good stores anymore because the markup is often 50-100% more than what you can get online. I buy bulk and often save $100 with those purchases. It's difficult to truly gauge the 9mm vs 45acp debate. My 9mm load that the FBI just adopted failed to stop an angry hoofed creature that weighed less that 150LBS. Then we hear stories of LEOs shooting a guy 9 times and failing to incapacitate with 45acp loads.
I'm new to your videos, and I have to say I really appreciate your demonstration of safe gun handling... As you always keep loaded pistols pointed down rage!
@5.56SPR Despite the shorter barrel on the 9mm pistol Paul used, we saw the 9mm rounds had significantly faster muzzle velocities than any of the .45 ACP ammo used. So the shorter barrel didn't result in a loss of velocity and therefore momentum at the target vis-a-vis the .45 ACP ammo. Also, he shot the .45 ACP cartridges from 25 yards at the meat target while shooting the 9mm from 10 yards. That is over twice the shooting distance and he still put more hurt on the meat target with the two .45 ACP ammo brands than with the 9mm ammo. 9mm ammo is excellent so I'm not saying that 9mm is inadequate; it's very good cartridge and I'd have no problem using a 9mm pistol for self-defense in the least. Bottom line: the .45 ACP did better because mass carries more weight (pun intended) in a projectile's capacity for doing harm to a target.
I never jumped on the HST wagon and tried to ride it until the wheels fell off , although I do have confidence in HST being a good self defense round, I have shot golden sabers for years and no complaints ,.......What was most surprising to me was the Winchester White Box for self defense , I have went through many white box target rounds but only one box of the self defense that I can remember , and that was because they were given to me. Very good video .
I think those DEFENSE AMMO are made for duty guns, 4 inch barrels, all caliber ballistics are conpromised with short barrels guns, 3 inch barrels, love your videos, they are very informative.
All about Context . If the question is what platform is best for shooting 9mm ammo , then the answer is +/- 4 inch . If the question is what caliber is best for pocket sized micro semiautomatics , the answer is 9x19 .
My every day carry is a Para Expert Commander 1911 with a 4.5 inch barrel. Ironically, my carry ammo is the Winchester White Box 230 grain JHP. In the shooting I've done, I have not seen much difference in the half inch of barrel length, and you can't beat the price tag as far as quantity you get for your money. As for quality, I get consistent expansion at engagement range. Thanks for putting things in perspective Paul, now I have something to show the people that swear I should change ammunition because they feel that the WWB is worthless and I should just use hardball instead.
Yup my every day driver is an 04 P71 with 312,000 miles on the clock and still going, and yeah I've been told by some simpletons that instead of WWB ammo ( Which Paul has demonstrated to be very effective.) I would be better off with FMJ hardball. All I can think of is they must follow Yankee Marshall lol.
Mr. Harrell, you have hands-down, THE best firearm channel on the internet. Thank you for your down-to-earth, highly informed, and honest presentations. You are most obviously one BADASS individual when it comes to the art of firearm warfare, yet you project the virtue of humility that is on par with Mr. Mas Ayoob. Thank you sooooooooo much, for that lack of immature chest-thumping that is so prevalent in the firearms world . Carry on, sir! My hubby and I love you.
Would you be willing to get a little closer to the camera when you show hollow point expansion? For people like me viewing on a phone it's a little bit small to see much detail. I love the work you do and it's great information keep up the good work Paul thanks!
The irony is I just finished watching a video showing a conversation with Federal engineers. I can just see them trying to argue over Paul’s type of targets. 😂
😂 And they will be saying none of these videos with these made up targets proves the most important function of a projectile which is penetration. That is why 9mm is king. Because most bullets will achieve enough penetration to reach internal organs and disable the central nervous system
I carry a full size 1911 in .45 ACP every day, and have another for a range gun. I also have a Glock 19 and 43X (9mm). I use Winchester white box 230 grain JHPs in the .45, and 124 grain Hydro Shoks in the 9mm. I’m happy with either, never feel under gunned with either.
"You be the judge" is the greatest tribute to scientific inquiry one could express.
The level of pure science, and objective facts in his videos always astounds me. I show Paul to others who think he’s boring, but he’s one of my favorites.
here in 2023 its illegal to be the judge now, you have to listen to the TV and believe exactly what they tell you
I know this is an old comment, but I really do love Paul's methods. Too many times I feel like I'm being told what to belive, even if what I'm seeing is telling me something else. "You be the judge" let's us come to our own conclusions, without coming off as preachy.
Local Idaho grocer. "Harrell just pulled up. We need 30 pounds of baby backs, eighteen watermelons and a case of hog's ears up front, please."
Harrell, "And don't forget the Shasta!"
That was funny. Good one!
eddie memphis was just thinking how much his local grocer must love him and what a bundle he spends on meat Target's
eddie memphis I'm pretty sure he is in Oregon not Idaho
Correct, Donald.
Can I BBQ the leftovers ? I get hungry after a long day at the Range !
My girlfriend does not appreciate me calling her "The meat target"
@Evan Moyer haa Got'emmmmm
lmao
I'm sure she wouldn't mind as much if you'd just let her keep calling you "snubbie"
If you go down that route, she might tell you:
"You barely make it past the first layer of tshirt."
@@lovelessissimo babycakes when I blast it's a full load it's all the way or no way
Paul ruins the family cookout...again.
You should see it when he shows up to our crawfish boils, shooting up the boiling pots and starts ranting about blackpowder guns and their barrier penetration all the while random bullets whizzing over our heads
Can you think of a BETTER way to tenderize the meat?
@@thezionsoho i like to scare my daughter in law with crawfish heads lol
Oh, we still eatin those ribs. Theyre tenderized
Who else found this channel because they were done with the over aggressive operator alpha male vibe of many other gun channels?
TheVideoMaker15
...well, I was over runaway Yeager and tym... I still like Hicock45 and John Lovell.
Yeah, Hicock is like going out to the country to see your eccentric uncle. But every once in a while its good to go out there and smoke a little pot.
Unfortunately, that very vibe can be often be found in the comment sections!
I came to Paul's channel for several reasons:
1. He knows what he is talking about.
2. His approach is fact based, never "because I said so".
3. He always finishes with "make up your own mind.
4. I watched his analysis of the FBI massacre in Florida, and found it to be compelling. Even after watching the FBI's own analysis.
Lets face it, Paul is right up there with anyone on youtube for his intelligent approach, and his respect for viewers. I am going over to Patreon right now!
agree, Paul is at the top. I like Hicock45 also, both have different style with a different intent. Hicock's review which aren't really a solid review will give good points and draw backs but more over shows the functioning of the weapon in usually good detail. when choosing a platform or cartridge, watch both of these guys and you'll come away with a great overall understanding of what your looking at. of course, neither can beat going to a gun shop and shooting first, but a great place to start.
lastly, I can only wish I could shoot as good as either one of these guys...
Winchester White Box: The Pabst Blue ribbon of ammunition.
BRILLIANT ANALOGY HARRY MALLORY!!!
Thank you!
Harry Mallory that bad?
Depending on how you look at things. If Pabst is all they have, I'll drink it.
IDK PBR isn't that awful,it's better than Buttweiser for sure.
An idea my dad introduced me to when I was a wee childe is "The point of diminishing returns." At low levels, when you spend more you get a lot for it. At high levels, when you spend more you get a teensy bit for it. With everything you buy, there's a crossover point between how much you spend and how much you get back for that expense. That's the point of diminishing returns. If you think about it, it shows up all over the place in life.
Yes that is true but some rounds are made for a specific caliber In mind let's take a look at the hst seems like heavy for caliber doesnt perform well maybe in this case a light projectile would change performance best 9mm I've heard is the 9mm plus p 124 gr hst so same coat as the 147 but seems to have a better reputation
It's basically an economic law of the universe.
Thanks for this. IMHO, the "meat target" with clothing is more representative of "real world conditions" vs. simply a gel or water jug test.
Absolutely.
Yes, but it also more representative of the random variations that make comparison exceptionally difficult.
@@av0wvos Not really. There may be variations but average of four shots is pretty obvious. Nothing difficult to see here at all. The 45acp is about twice as devastating. Which is not surprising if we look at the Army's original early 20thC 'meat tests" they did with animal carcasses.
Ballistic Gel isn't supposed to be "real world" anything. It's just supposed to be a consistent medium to test ammo in.
Why does everyone think it's supposed to be anything else?
@@joemo1033 Because it's a gelatinous blob that ripples when shot like human skin?
One of the most underrated gun channels. I think it was Yankee Marshall that said nobody did these test. Wouldn't be the first time he's wrong
Hail to The_Rooster nah, yankee marshall has too much ego. I quit watching him when he started going on rants about specific other youtubers. Because honestly I DON'T CARE that his feelings got hurt.
His feelings don't get hurt much...his butt, well, that's a different story, given his getups.
Yankee Marshall is a moron, one of those guys that just sits around molesting his guns all day. You will rarely see a Yankee Marshall video where he is actually shooting.
My problem with Yankee began with his inconsistency on caliber preference and when someone pointed out that in his videos he generally pisses on everything about calibers making it very moot to take his advice on what a curious mind might ask for what to look for. For example, 9mm was too underpowered, 40 was not his favorite, 380 was eh, 45 had too much kickback, 22 does jack, etc etc. Not to mention heavily vague on his debate between carrying a revolver, DA/SA hammer, or striker fire.
I can not trust a man who puts on the airs of seasoned expert but forces very indecisive opinions about his field of supposed knowledge.
YM thinks he's as funny as he looks, which is fine if it tickles him but I cannot take him seriously. Gave up on tapping his experience and opinions for valid reasons a LONG time ago. Is he really still going? Wow
The Bob Ross of Shooting . . .
"Not bad at all."
DTuck 🤣🤣
Hey! That's my line! Oh well, it's OK. We can share....
"Now let's dab a little lead on this cinder block canvas... There! Pretty little bullet impacts."
Sweeten Low he looked like captain price lol
I learned two things from this video. One, don't believe everything you read about fancy (read: expensive) ammo. And two, I really need to get a 1911 .45.
This is a real eye opener. I usually stick to Hydra-Shocks or Silver Tips for my carry loads, always have. I bought some really expensive stuff for my .380 trying to compensate but now I'm questioning it. I can't afford to do these tests myself so thank you soooo much for doing all your videos. Be blessed & safe.
The one thing I've learned from all your videos is that fleece is bullet proof! I'm just going to wear my fleece pullover everywhere all the time and dare the bad guys to shoot me.
Great video again!
I wear fleece boxers so if I have an ND while appendix carrying I should be o.k.
Just make sure a meat target stands in front of you too.
ROFL! Too true!
Ya like 50 layers of fleece lol talk about body odor
Be advised FLEECE WORKS AFTER the bullets penetrate the MEAT TARGET, NOT before.
You be the judge.......
Hi Paul. Good video. I enjoyed seeing my carry load in .45 ACP used on the "meat target", which I think is pretty realistic. I DO have Commanders, and for what it is worth, the 230 grain HST clocks right at 800 fps average from both of mine. So it is a bit pokey but it seems to work. I chose it because it was my last department's duty load and I have a good source for it. In my testing it expands just a tiny bit better than Gold Dot, but penetrates a tiny bit less, and it is very controllable. But to tell the truth, it's sort of hard to buy a bad .45 ACP JHP load from any major manufacturer. I pay about $28 for 50 rounds online.
As for the 9mm, I came to the same conclusion you did about the 150 grain HST load. Federal was going for an expanding niche audience with this load, since they had a perfectly good 147 grain HST load aimed at law enforcement which exits the muzzle of my M&P 9C at about 975 fps, and a standard pressure 124 grain and a 124 grain +P that exit the same gun at roughly 1100 and 1150 respectively. I buy either one that is available. Expansion with the 124 grainers has been fine even in my little Kahr pistol which spits out the standard pressure load at something around 1075 fps. I pay about $26 for 50 rounds of 9mm HST. For what it is worth, Federal says the 150 grain load is designed for use in ultra-small 9mm pocket guns carried by civilians and that control of recoil in very light guns was their priority. It is reduced from their other HST loadings by design.
I think two things. First, that you are right that there is not as big a difference between the premium lines of ammunition and standard stuff from the same people, except maybe in the amount of barrier testing that the LE lines get. All our carry ammo has gotten better over the last 20 years, and the differences are not as great as they once were. The second thing that I think is that the 150 grain HST load, developed by Federal for civilian use in "Micro pistols" as they put it, was designed with extremely low recoil in mind, and is a very slow round designed for people without much experience to shoot in little tiny pistols. I don't think it is really representative of the HST product.
Thanks so much for making these videos. You save all of us lots of work, knowing that someone trustworthy is doing various relevant tests that we are curious about.
Great posting!
124 hst seems to be the sweet spot for that particular line of 9mm.
Yup was gonna say he tested the wrong grain for 9mm hst. If he would've tested 124 he would've had better results and consistent expansion
I agree with you Tom, I use the HST in 9mm 124gr+P and it does the job nicely.
Many agencies are using 147 grain loads in service 9mm pistols. Federal discontinued the +P 147 grain since the standard pressure load penetration is better. I would highly recommend the +P 124 grain Gold Dot and +P HST Or Golden Saber +P. The older +P+ 115 Federal 9BPLE was an excellent load when it was used back in the 80’s and early 90’s. The Winchester 147 grain Subsonic controlled expansion loads that replaced the 115 grain and 124 grain service ammunition in many LE agencies proved it was lacking in performance. Newer ammunition has definitely improved since the 90’s.
Growing up I could rewatch a show time and time again with it never getting old. It's been a long time since I've found a show good enough to rewatch episode after episode, but the Paul Harrell channel accomplishes this quality programming over and over. Thanks for the quality information and neverending entertainment.
After watching paul's videos I love the fact theres no bullshit. Straight forward information based on his expertise and personal experience. Thanks for being a straight shooter paul
That's why he's a legend on RUclips now.
Don't forget, unbiased, objective, DEMONSTRATION and EVALUATION.
Ha! Who needs to try to get some sleep when Paul has a new video out?
Bob G I know right this is one of the best channel for gun information out there
l have slept less than 14 hours in the last three days combined, now l'd have the time to sleep, but a video from Paul comes up. Is this more important than getting some sleep? You be the judge.
Kurt Bergh I would say sleep is your friend
Bob G thats nothing you should see Othais and Mae in C&Rsenal when they upload their 40 or 50 minute videos on guns from ww1.
Bob G eff sleep it's for losers
Well, the HST didn't blow me away but I was impressed with the general thumping ability of the 45acp over the 9mm! And, as always, your meat targets were great for giving us that real-world view that chronographs simply can't show.
Your local grocery store must love it when they see you drive up. Pig ears... Great video, again!
Paul Simmons u mad, bro?
PDIcomics - At what?
PDIcomics is mad at himself apparently and needed to tell everybody lol
Yeah, you could see the target just go to pieces when the WWB 45 ammo was going through it. And at 25 yards! Makes me think.
Downarrow Amen on that note
I am so impressed with how easy Paul makes shooting a pistol look.
Sir, you make some of the best videos. People think shooting into a block of gel will tell them everything...you're way better.
Paul I also want to say that I'm impressed that you posted this video. it shows that you are committed to the truth of your findings even though you knew it would go against the popular opinion. I really admire that about you. you've held to that consistently throughout you're videos and it's doesn't go unapreciated!
Paul explains it well
one might even say, it's appreciated
When you want the truth of firearms watch Paul. He does real comparisons between equals. Not completely biased videos to make the desired product look good no matter what, like some others.
In short you can trust Paul to show you the real world, not showy garbage to get you to buy something.
It could save you a lot of money when you don't buy the latest and greatest ammo. There is a reason WWB and Golden Sabers have been around for so long.
@@thatguy22441
Good point!
Really great demonstration Paul. I can only imagine the amount of work involved in putting one of your videos together. Thanks for the hard work, it's greatly appreciated.
I honestly think at this point that I can learn everything I need about guns I want but don't need or guns/ammo that will be best for the uses I want by looking at your page and searching for topics. Seriously thank you for taking all the time informing us here. No one else I see here over the years has such a thorough way of educating people on guns and ammo.
I really like your videos Paul. They are more.... Professional; and different than the other channels. Straight to the point, creative, interesting and very educational to watch and think about. I am Glad I am a subscriber to Your channel.
But I keep hearing the .45acp is obsolete. That meat sure didn't look like after a few rounds. Excellent video as usual. Thanks Paul.
dean jones id rather have a fast flying 9mm that will always expand even if the range is a little further out or theres thick clothing on. 45 is too slow and fat to be effective like a 9 or a 40
ThaGVPSon they make 185gr and 200gr 45acp bullets that go well over 1000fps and expand consistently out of smaller guns even at range
MrMrfed nevertheless, too much recoil and too limited on magazine capacity
nothing wrong with .45 ACP, it is a good round and so is the 9mm. It comes down to in some cases which one can you shoot the best and go with it. Personally, I like the 10mm.
C MJ 10mm is a great round but too much recoil for me, personally I prefer more shots on target vs greater energy and marginal gains in bullet diameter. For me federal HST 124 grain in my glock 19 is all all I need for self defense, though i do carry a ruger gp100 when im in the bear woods
Another fantastic video Paul! I love the lengths and detail you go to in your videos giving the viewer the chance to form their own opinions. I'd love to see a .40 S&W vs .45 ACP video along the same lines as this video or your 9mm vs .40 S&W. Keep up the good work!
Grocery store clerk...”Here comes Paul with the usual; ribs, watermelon, pig ears and 6 fleece blankets.”
hahahahahahah
Paul: "By the way, you are now out of Shasta."
Being an old guy getting back into shooting and in the market for self defense ammo, I appreciate the effort and expense that you put into this video. Just found your site and subscribed. I’ll be watching more of your videos.
This comment section will probably be great. you be the judge.
THIS is why we love you, sir - you are an honest man, integrity is synonymous with your name. Thank you.
u da man paul
Some of my favorite RUclips channels I can pause and finish watching it a day or two later. But Paul's are so interesting and informative I have to watch them from start to finish.
One of the best presentors on these subjects. All of the videos can teach you something. Thank you for your hard work.
Man those .45's were merciless on the melons
The man is just endlessly knowledgeable, fair minded and logical. This was a test that is hard to ignore. I appreciate the .45 acp information. So much more 9mm information out there.
Now that’s a man with spunk! Thank you my friend. You’ve blessed RUclips with your presence
Agree with what others are saying, the 150gr "short barrel" HST is not representative of the performance of the 147 and 124 grain loads in 9mm. tnoutdoors9 here on RUclips has some good testing on the other weights and standard vs +P loadings. My personal carry is 147gr standard pressure as it seems to be the best performer and has respectable performance out of various barrel lengths. Keep up the great videos Paul.
The 150 gr. is well underloaded for reduced recoil and flash. The 147 and 124 performed very well in ShootingtheBull410's 9mm Ammo Quest series, and Lucky Gunner's tests.
I carry 147 HST standard also! It shoots great out of my Gen 5 mos G17, it’s a great round.
Yeah this was a poorly made video
First of all , thank you for putting this together. Very informative and your meat target is an excellent demonstration tool.
This is much better than the cookie cutter gel tests and much more indicative of what a round will do in a body.
Again thanks for your hard work.
Fred Schwartz Except that he compared the HST micro 9mm load against the standard loads and lighter bullet wieghts of the other brands. Not even close to a fair comparison in 9mm.
Brandon, You're kidding right? Do you really think 3 grains of bullet weight made a real difference?
Paul Harrell No I'm not Paul. The micro is a different bullet design that supposedly expands with less velocity and the velocity on those is lowered or as their website says "optimized for less felt recoil". It is marketed towards people who buy small handguns not foreseeing how much recoil they will feel so they go to a low recoil ammo. They are NOT the same load or velocity as regular HST so not only is the round intentionally lower velocity the heavier bullet slows it down too so that's why you got performance out of the micro that was so poor compared to the others and yet the .45 compared well with the others. Go read Federals product description of the micro HST on their website.
I will definitely admit that calling it "HST micro" is bad marketing it shield have been called "HST low recoil".
...and it is a design that has proven itself to not live up to the other HSTs.
Clear, concise, unbiased information. It's been too long since someone has your level of common sense.
Common sense isn't so common.
its uncommon lol
As I’m about to ask the question about the greater distance as it relates to expansion threshold, Paul answers my question. Thanks again!
hey paul just wanted to say you make great content, really knowledgeable, and don't seem biased towards common belief. you test and say what seems to me to be realistic. I appreciate your work and thank you.
I was also underwhelmed by the Federal 150-gr Micro HST rounds when I tested them with my short-barreled Diamondback. The 124-gr HST service ammo is far more effective, and costs around $25 for a 50-rd box.
100% agree! I carry the 124gr +p HST in my Sig P320. Very good performing ammunition.
@@Levi_shep That's the best 9mm self defense ammo. Nothing is better than that. Especially when the 124 +p hst performs very well in any barrel length. It's truly the superior ammo for 9x19
124 grain is perfect for 9MM
+p for larger 9mm smaller carry 9mm regular
HST 124 and 147 grain JHP's are pretty much the gold standard of 9mm SD ammo. Why they came out with 150 grain is anyone's guess but I can't imagine anyone buying it.
The 150 grain version apparently is specifically designed for "micro" guns (in other words, typical 9mm pocket guns with 3 to 3.5 inch barrels).
@@xringarcher1440 lol.
Working my way through old videos Paul.....And As Always....Informative and Entertaining! Thank You !
Happiness is a gun presenter that makes me feel welcome and respected... and provides top notch information backed by as realistic methods as possible. Kudos, sir. :) I'm broke as hell, but the desire to support *is* there... and I can't possibly be broke forever, right? Right?!
I've used all of those in my SA. 1911 and have been using the Winchester white box for a year now. I really appreciate this video. Thank you. And at 33$a box I can afford to train with what I carry. Win win situation
Valid point. For you, with YOUR WEAPON.
Others may find different!
As Paul Harrell said "find what works for you and your weapon."
Thanks to you, Paul, I feel much more comfortable carrying Remington green & white box ammo. That's what I always buy, anyway. I like to shoot, so I don't waste a lot of money on marketed ammo. Becoming more efficient with your weapon, is wayyyyy more important than carrying high dollar ammo. Great video, as always!!!! You're my favorite gun channel.
I love his "Has anything in it" jacket! I've seen a lot of his videos & the jacket is amazing.
I've also learned a lot.
Most underrated youtube gun channel hands down. Everyone needs to watch this guys channel. I've learned so much watching his video's.
I'd love to see a video on how significant the differences are between standard ammo and +P's and how they perform in regard to accuracy, penetration, and shootability (recoil). I would especially like to see one done on the +P's in .45 acp.
The more of Paul’s content I watch the more I like him... honest results without the hype. Good stuff. Has Paul ever tested Buffalo Bore ammo?
Yes, he has on occasion. Wish I could give up the titles. Sorry.
Wow this is such great research and a great channel. Thanks Paul!! I use both the Federal HST and Remington GS. GS is great oldschool ammo!
I love the concerted glance toward camera between each shot while calling the velocity.
Hey Paul,
Just wanted to let you know that I just shot expert with the M9 at a range the other day. I haven't touched one of those since I was stationed in Ft. Knox and that was back in 2011. Your videos really helped and I just want to say thanks.
Great! Glad you got some useful info from the vids.
Paul Harrell paul i love all ur videos can u please test RIP ammo on the meat target in 9mm and 45acp The RIP is also called radicaly invasive projectile thanks for everything 0331
Thanks for another great video! And, thanks for challenging once again the dogma of hyper-ammo. Lots of "experts" swear by it, but almost none of them offer proof of the superiority of that choice.
Oh? What kind of proof? Perhaps years of testing with calibrated gel blocks? Or dozens of OIS reports and autopsies that experts have observed firsthand?
Thank you for explaining why you purchase in stores as opposed to on line. I recently started purchasing standard hollow point ammo but now you have me thinking that I need to test it. Wish I could just ship you a few boxes to run through your tests.
Thanx for the uploads. Your channel is my new favorite gun feed!
Yes!! Thanks for doing this video!
Long live the meat target!! :D
Doesn't look like they live very long haha
! omg. that is stopping power. Hi: do you think I should carry the glock 21 or the glock 30? I am thinking about buying either a 30 or a 21. thx.
Poker Channel
I doubt anybody can truly answer that but you. There are a lot of people who will tell you what you should carry, but you need to try and train with different pistols under your carry restrictions.
Personally, I've shot the the G21 and don't like it. But I love the Colt Commander. Fits me better. But that's me. I don't really like the feel of most glocks.
Given the option, I'd probably find a .40S&W with a 4.25" barrel that fit my hand well, then fill it with 180 gr polymer-tipped JHP. A nice sweet spot between 124gr 9mm and 230gr 45ACP. But again, that's just me.
yeah. the .40 is a good option. I would experiement with .40 in a 165 grain for the higher velocity. I think .40 such as a 22 cut down to the size of a 27 (ie a glock 22 cut the grip to make a 27 LL). That may be super good. .40 is a good round. I might be looking for a glock 22 to cut to 27. I already have a 27 and a 26 and a 42 and 43. The next one might be a 22 instead of a glock 30. hey btw, I got my sons shooting a airsoft pistol yesterday. They loved it. They were shooting cans and knocking them down with a pistol at 7 to 8 yards!!!! and they are learning proper gun safety. and having fun. they are 7 and 12 y/o. air soflt is a good way!!! right?
Poker Channel
The G22 is the Glock I enjoyed the most, probably because I was more accurate with it. The G23 is ok too, but my mitts are a little too big for anything smaller.
I'd need a mag plate extension to hold the 27 properly. But we can't conceal or open carry here in Canada, so it's not an issue anyway. We can only use pistols at a certified range, and barrel length must be 4.18" or longer. Our "compacts" all have an extra 1/2"+ of barrel sticking out past the slide. Our silly gun laws make our guns look silly. But if I could carry, I'd love a Sig P228 (180gr or 165gr....hmm) or a 1911 Commander in 45 with 185gr JHP.
So cool your kids enjoy plinking. My brother and I got started around 5&6 yrs old with pellet rifles. Shooting sports are great for kids, too. Especially if they are exposed to firearms in the home. Teach 'em safe, teach 'em young and everyone has fun! They're going to wanr a .22 or shotgun soon 😁
Damn, when I saw the title I thought the video would be about the 147 or 124 grain 9mm HST.
Vic Jaguar Yeah suck that he chose the only bad version of HST. The 150 grain Micro load is not what us HST guys were talking about.
Yeah, if you follow this sort of thing, you know how well the 147s and 124s perform in gel. I was hoping to see how well they perform in real meat and bone.
gothael1 All the ones I've seen are not.
150gr HST performs better very well, and is a top choice imo:
www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
I've got some of the 147's, and the 124's in 9mm, both are excellent rounds.
I find his way of explaining things very thorough and concise...His style of speaking reminds me of a favorite High School Science Teacher.
Thank you Paul for sharing your experience with guns!
Paul I would love to see you test the 9mm Underwood 90 grain Extreme Defender on the meat target. A lot of testing in gel has shown it to be equal in wound cavity and superior in
penetration to the best hollow points. I believe your meat target is a more realistic test
media.
Would like to see 9mm Federal HST +P in the next one. Thanks for all great videos
Great videos, love your format, presentation and style... comprehensive yet engaging.
Great points as always. I am consistently seeing in your videos that "standard" hp's like the Win white box or the Rem UMC perform surprisingly well. Based on this, other testing you have done, and other testing from other sources, the 124 gr seems to be the way to go in 9mm. I know that NYPD and other agencies have gotten great results fron the Gold Dot 124 gr +p, and the standard pressure load does well too. 147's have always seemed a little iffy, especially in shorter barrels, although the Golden Sabers did well here. You always do a great job sorting out the facts from conjecture, assumptions, and marketing hype. Thank you for all your work.
Paul I was really exited to see you made a video about HST but the air went out as soon as you said HST 150gr. That stuff does not measure up to the 124 and 147gr HST. Also no surprise all of the ammo in .45 acp performed well out of the long barell gun. What about how they would compare out of a short barrel? The 150gr HST is labeled "micro" and is probably a less hot load and supposedly supposed to expand with less velocity so it isn't the same specs as HST 124 and 147 grain. I'm not saying HST is more bang for your buck but the 9mm comparison was not fair when you are using the micro ammo against regular ammo and not only that the bullet wieghts are not the same.
@B real "tested again with more closely comparable guns and ammo"??? he wasnt testing the 9mm vs the 45 he was testing the different ammo vs different companies so the guns had nothing to do with it. as far as barrel length the longest you can carry will be the best as it will be easier to aim and will give faster speed to the rounds
@B real this was my gun answer. as far as barrel length the longest you can carry will be the best as it will be easier to aim and will give faster speed to the rounds. i know what he said. thats why i said this, you saying you wanted more comparable guns after he made the point was not needed. everybody doesnt carry the same size guns so this is good for 30% 40%x 50%? who knows so it was a good comparison of the ammo brands for that length gun
Brandon Lee 124gr +P HST is the best 9mm ammo out at the time.
@@UltraDude2000 I wish he would've tested them instead of the 150g
Brandon Lee, you're correct. Comparing the HST 150gr to the other 9MM rounds is apples to oranges. Federal intentionally loads HST 150s to have a 100 fps lower velocity than the 147s, as stated on their website, because the 150 is designed for lower recoil. If you take a look at ShootingTheBull's Ammo Quest videos (using a 3" barrel), you'll see that the HST 147s indeed have the higher velocity, and do expand consistently in the tests. Interestingly, when STB tested the slower HST 150, one round (of four through denim) did not expand.
Where to get? "Paul,s unlimited ammo jacket", those pockets bottomless! 🥳🥳🥳
Great video, nice to see what a round does to something besides ballistics gel. Glad I found your channel, it's nice to see a regular gun enthusiast. Don't envy your grocery bill though!!
As always love your videos. I carry several pistols 9x19, 40 s&w and 357 sig in the two 9mm's I use the gold dot or hst 124 grain rds as high a pressure as I can get in the 9x19 and underwood or my handloads in the Sig and hst or gold dot in the .40 all 180 grain. Love your channel and your tests.
I can’t get over the feeling that Paul fills his ketchup bottle at home with packets from Burger King
I don't get it. He seems frugal, not cheap.
"What can we take away from all this?" Buy a full-sized 1911. ;)
Also... "don't ever go to Paul's house for pork rib dinner".
"These ribs taste like watermelon."
Sticking with 357 Mag. Damn I love that gun...
If you do - chew very carefully!
Gs Wovoka lol what a pos gun u choose. I choose 10mm and 41 mag. I have better guns and calibers than you and better training. Im just better at guns than you. Idiot
Thanks for sharing your videos and keep them coming please. I value your tests and opinions more than anyone else on RUclips especially those just using gelatin.
Always in for a treat with your expertise Paul, You are One-of-a-Kind 🤠
The 150 grain 9mm HST is known to be a poor performer. It's a recent edition to the line. It's significantly slower then the other loadings. The 147 grain std pressure is 1000 fps out of a 4" barrel and expands and penetrates consistently. Also find the LE versions online you get 50 in a box for around $25. The second I heard you say 150 grain I was like ugh it's going to suck.
Mike Siley Exactly. This was not a fair comparison and I expect better from Paul Harrell.
Well I don't think he was biased. He probably went to the store and grabbed a box of HST and didn't realize he was picking up one of the worst performing HSTs and maybe the worst performing JHP that's come out in the past 5 years. Or maybe I'm totally wrong and HSTs do suck and the dozen or so other tests I've seen in ballistics gel are bad.
Mike Siley The worst JHP of the last 5 years was probably the Gold Dot G2. But the 150 grain HST is pretty bad also.
I picked up the only HST ammo they had. And I went to a couple of stores. I figured the difference between the Remington 147 and the HST 150 is pretty damned close. Even if you remove the 9MM segment from this vid, the .45 wasn't exactly a stellar performed either.
Paul Harrell The HST 147 or 124 gr would not perform poorly like the HST 150 micro. I don't disagree that maybe HST isn't worth it if you can't get a good deal but they are not bad unless you are using the 150 micro.
I'd shoot the snot out of that chronograph at those distances lol. Good shootin Paul
I have, not one, but two confirmed chronograph kills at 7 yards! My next chronograph will have to be made from Kevlar, LOL! Semper Fi, TreeTop
I murdered my chrono at 100yds trying to get some figures on 7.62x39 out of an arsenal ak. poor thing never heard the shot
Another great video. Keep up the variety of topics and the analysis of the information is always helpful.
Gotta say I'm a big fan, I for one appreciate your no BS full analysis of real world statistics and scenarios. Thank you for the extra details (I know you've caught greif for long explanations by some trolls) it's like listening to a good teacher who knows how to get the point across without coming off like a a-hole know-it-all!
Interesting, I'd be interested in seeing you repeat this test with the 124gr Federal HST, and also with the Underwood 90gr Leigh Xtreme Defender ammo.
He seemed so excited about those pig ear. "We have skin!"
Excellent video. I've tested the 147 grain 9mm +p out of my shield and out of my CZ75b versus some cast lead hollow points (155 grain 357 mag chronographed at 1450 out of a 5" barrel) The cheapo hollow pointed cast lead (with top end 357 mag loading) significantly outperformed the HST in 9mm +p
I had these for a while in 9mm, I did the test where you fired your carry weapon as you've had it - I carry a taurus m9 clone (I keep it immaculate as a habit), and these HST's had multiple (3)/19rds FTE malfunctions, when I had had 0 malfunctions/~1300 rounds of ball ammo. Maybe it was just a weird instance for the pistol or some other factor, but it made me want to get rid of these (had fun shooting them anyway at the range), and I later got some Remington green and white HPs and those fed great and so I've stuck with them. Thanks for the videos as always Paul :)
I must say that I like the way that you come off target after each shot, dropping the muzzle rather than pulling straight back to the chest as seems to be popular these days. I never got comfortable bringing the handgun straight back. I think I will practice your technique to see if it feels more natural. It certainly seems easier to keep the handgun more at the ready after each shot.
Damn Dogs Well it depends on what your training. The pulling straight back is to make sure no one can grab for your gun while you assess the situation. The closer the gun to your chest the better control you have if someone is trying to yank the gun from you.
Interesting video Paul, I have to admit im a bit of an HST fan it always looks so impressive in gel. What I took away from this video is that #1 bullets perform much diffrenty in a mixed media vs a sterile media like gel. #2 45 caliber is the way to go if you can carry it vs 9mm. #3 Even your basic hollow points work well.
For me since a hand gun is already a compromised round I'm looking for every advantage I can get when carrying a hand gun so I'm willing to spend a little more for ammo if it offers some advantage. Also buying ammo at the brick and mortar stores is usually expensive. I've gotten some really good deals on hst on line for a box of 50 for much less than you paid for a box of 20 or 25. I like to support my local shops but when you're talking about a mark up of a %100 I have to go with the on line option even with shipping cost.
Very good points. I don't buy a lot of ammo on line because so many people don't like to shop on line so I like to go with what I find at the store. However the pendulum is swinging and these days a lot more people are willing to shop for ammo online and I'll start doing it too.
Put me in the same camp as mrelectron62. I bought hundreds and hundreds of rounds of HST, and also of its best competitors like the ranger T, Gold Dot and even Golden Saber (although I mostly stock HST). It was based on gel performance, LE testing and street results. HST is supposedly THE round to have right now.
Well, consider me schooled. Like mrelectron62 I don't regret my choice due to the low online prices (less than $30 for 50 in .45) and the little edge. But this was an eye opener for me.
It looks like manufacturers have gotten very good at gaming the FBI test protocols to make their bullets look like winners with a few tweaks. The fact that those tests are used to claim that a 9mm works just as well as a .45 should've been a clue.
@@mynameislegion7144 Doc Gary Roberts seems to be an extremely well-respected person in the field of ballistic performance and I believe you can still find the FBI approved list online.
As for ammo cost, unfortunately, I just don't buy ammo from gun or sporting good stores anymore because the markup is often 50-100% more than what you can get online. I buy bulk and often save $100 with those purchases.
It's difficult to truly gauge the 9mm vs 45acp debate. My 9mm load that the FBI just adopted failed to stop an angry hoofed creature that weighed less that 150LBS. Then we hear stories of LEOs shooting a guy 9 times and failing to incapacitate with 45acp loads.
I must've watched this video 10 times now. I love Paul's ammo tests.
I'm new to your videos, and I have to say I really appreciate your demonstration of safe gun handling... As you always keep loaded pistols pointed down rage!
Don’t believe the hype on hyper ammo, regular ammo will do just fine or even better(Winchester, Federal, etc). Another Great Video 👍🏽!#AMERICA!
The .45 looked like it hit much harder than the 9mm.
5" barrel vs 3" barrel...keep that in mind.
silverhorder1969 Be careful saying stuff like that, you could start a caliber war or something 😁
@5.56SPR Despite the shorter barrel on the 9mm pistol Paul used, we saw the 9mm rounds had significantly faster muzzle velocities than any of the .45 ACP ammo used. So the shorter barrel didn't result in a loss of velocity and therefore momentum at the target vis-a-vis the .45 ACP ammo. Also, he shot the .45 ACP cartridges from 25 yards at the meat target while shooting the 9mm from 10 yards. That is over twice the shooting distance and he still put more hurt on the meat target with the two .45 ACP ammo brands than with the 9mm ammo. 9mm ammo is excellent so I'm not saying that 9mm is inadequate; it's very good cartridge and I'd have no problem using a 9mm pistol for self-defense in the least. Bottom line: the .45 ACP did better because mass carries more weight (pun intended) in a projectile's capacity for doing harm to a target.
Yeah; it's a big boy round for sure. There's a noticeable "thump" of difference between the two lol.
favor4afav
I never jumped on the HST wagon and tried to ride it until the wheels fell off , although I do have confidence in HST being a good self defense round, I have shot golden sabers for years and no complaints ,.......What was most surprising to me was the Winchester White Box for self defense , I have went through many white box target rounds but only one box of the self defense that I can remember , and that was because they were given to me. Very good video .
I love the way you take the time to explain it.
I think those DEFENSE AMMO are made for duty guns, 4 inch barrels, all caliber ballistics are conpromised with short barrels guns, 3 inch barrels, love your videos, they are very informative.
Check out ShootingtheBull410 !
The 150 HST is specifically made for 3" barrel guns and labeled "micro". As the other responder stated, check out the videos at Shootingthebull410
All about Context .
If the question is what platform is best for shooting 9mm ammo , then the answer is +/- 4 inch .
If the question is what caliber is best for pocket sized micro semiautomatics , the answer is 9x19 .
My every day carry is a Para Expert Commander 1911 with a 4.5 inch barrel. Ironically, my carry ammo is the Winchester White Box 230 grain JHP. In the shooting I've done, I have not seen much difference in the half inch of barrel length, and you can't beat the price tag as far as quantity you get for your money. As for quality, I get consistent expansion at engagement range. Thanks for putting things in perspective Paul, now I have something to show the people that swear I should change ammunition because they feel that the WWB is worthless and I should just use hardball instead.
04Interc3ptorP71 I drop hogs all the time using WWB in 9 and 45. Even the target loads put them down with no problems.
2 wheeled demon Are they running at you with a knife screaming aloha snackbar?
Stew Pidasso No. Just running at me with tusks, squealing, and wanting blood.
04Intec3ptorP71 you must be a Crown Vic guy, good cars. I would not listen to any one who tells me to carry hard ball in 45 cal for self defense. LOL
Yup my every day driver is an 04 P71 with 312,000 miles on the clock and still going, and yeah I've been told by some simpletons that instead of WWB ammo ( Which Paul has demonstrated to be very effective.) I would be better off with FMJ hardball. All I can think of is they must follow Yankee Marshall lol.
Mr. Harrell, you have hands-down, THE best firearm channel on the internet. Thank you for your down-to-earth, highly informed, and honest presentations. You are most obviously one BADASS individual when it comes to the art of firearm warfare, yet you project the virtue of humility that is on par with Mr. Mas Ayoob. Thank you sooooooooo much, for that lack of immature chest-thumping that is so prevalent in the firearms world
. Carry on, sir! My hubby and I love you.
Great video, Paul. I totally agree with you on the Federal HST ammo !
Would you be willing to get a little closer to the camera when you show hollow point expansion? For people like me viewing on a phone it's a little bit small to see much detail. I love the work you do and it's great information keep up the good work Paul thanks!
Stop looking through your phone, maybe?
The irony is I just finished watching a video showing a conversation with Federal engineers. I can just see them trying to argue over Paul’s type of targets. 😂
😂
And they will be saying none of these videos with these made up targets proves the most important function of a projectile which is penetration. That is why 9mm is king. Because most bullets will achieve enough penetration to reach internal organs and disable the central nervous system
I love the brutal honesty in all of your answers!
great video. There is also the question of precision and muzzle flash.
I Carry 124g Federal HST, not 150g so my Velocity is greater and penetration is greater !
It would have been nice to see the PDX1 results, especially in the .45 ACP.
You are my favourite comedian!
And you are a true expert of firearms too :)
I carry a full size 1911 in .45 ACP every day, and have another for a range gun. I also have a Glock 19 and 43X (9mm). I use Winchester white box 230 grain JHPs in the .45, and 124 grain Hydro Shoks in the 9mm. I’m happy with either, never feel under gunned with either.