Federal HST vs Speer Gold Dot vs Hornady Critical Duty | FBI "Heavy Clothing” Ballistics Gel Test
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
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In This Video I Do The FBI "Heavy Clothing" Ballistics Gel Test With The Federal Premium HST, Speer Gold Dot, & Hornady Critical Duty. As Always I Use My Glock 17 9mm Handgun And The Gel Block I Use Is The Clear Ballistics 20% Ballistics Gel NATO Block. The FBI Uses 10% Gel But 20% Gel Stops Bullets Quicker Than 10% Gel And It's For That Reason That I Prefer Using The 20% Gel. I May Have Created More Questions Than Answers After Doing This Test But Nonetheless It Was An Interesting Test.
If You Have Any Questions Or Anything Else You Would Like To See Feel Free To Leave A Comment Down Below.
If You Like This Video Please Let Me Know With A Comment Or A Thumbs Up. Thank You For Watching!
I carry HST, and I think what a lot of people like about it is that it has a more consistent performance despite what barrier you send it through, at least in the FBI's tests and the tests they do at Lucky Gunner. But really you can depend on any of these rounds to get the job done. It's all about preferences.
I'd say in 06-2019; the top 3 handgun loads to use for LE 🚔, duty or personal defense are; Speer G2, Hornady Critical Duty, Federal HST(tactical or bonded). I currently use Critical Duty 124gr +P in my Glock 26 gen 5 but I may get some new HST 124gr +P or the 147gr version G2 9mm.
I would say prity red tips are only for marketing and to catch the shooters eye ,and doesn't affect performance at all Hornaday makes good ammo but I wish it worked as good as it looks oh well Speer or federal I put my life on it 😉
@@joshdecastro1387I always had a theory about the FTX tip. It originally debuted in the mid 2000s and was designed for Hornady’s LeveRevolution line of products. The purpose was to improve safety of lever rifle tubular magazines and to negate the need for flat nose projectiles. It wasn’t until after this that we saw them start to include it in their defensive products, and I always wondered if they just repurposed it as a marketing gimmick. I don’t know if this is actually true or not; perhaps it does serve a good function. As with everything else, it’s pretty easy to find videos of tests where it either outperforms or does way worse than its competitors lol…
@@DavidLLambertmobileG2 sucks ass
That's pretty much how they design the critical duty to perform, it has a high antimony lead core and the band which controls maximum expansion. It favors penetration and hard barrier performance over expansion, which is fine if that's what you want.
Justin Miller That explains why the 4 layer denim test got better results but with that many layers in a 20% gel block that seems kinda crazy. I knew they designed it for hard barriers but it acted Almost like an fmj ball round. Interesting though. I like it
Justin Miller Is the critical defense designed to expand easier than the duty?
The critical defense is softer and is designed for modest consist expansion through short barrel ccw guns, whereas the critical duty is designed for duty guns 4.5 inch barrel or a greater ideally.
Shooting usa had probably the best video on the differences. ruclips.net/video/8PBPjYu_5ow/видео.html
Justin Miller I see. Thanks
Critical duty is doing exactly what it supposed to do. It is designed for FBI and police for hard barriers. It's a heavier jacket and harder lead. If you want it to act like the others, then use critical defense not duty.
Thats what i was thinking....
@Bob White www.gunsamerica.com/digest/fbi-hornady-critical-duty-federal-ammo/ well looks like the FBI will be...
@Bob White well at the end of the day sir i dont believe pd's make available what ammo they carry. There are litteraly thousands of pd so i guess we will never know...
Yes please do a video with critical defense!
Anyone else have trouble finding the critical defense? Can only find critical duty...
Never shot HST but it did what it's suppose to. The Gold Dot passed through the first time because the gel was compromised by the first shot; less resistance. Anytime you plug up the hollow cavity with polymer it becomes almost a solid slug which is why they don't expand like we think they will. They're all good rounds you can be confident in. My department went with Gold Dot because they expanded the best without over penetrating. That was 20 years ago and they still work well.
Thanks for the video l!
It’s amazing how someone takes their TIME,& MONEY to provide a ammo comparison video and the FIRST THING people say is
“Can you try another ammo”
“ use fresh gels for each shot”
“That was unfair do it this way “
Just APPRECIATIVE THE VIDEO!
or send him money for 30 gel blocks & all the ammo .... didn’t think so
Jay Lee Thank you
Stuff is really expensive !
Justin Nachatilo Thank you I appreciate it
Thanks so much for the data! Very interesting findings indeed. God Bless America.
I learned alot.
You know you will never appease everyone. I personally appreciate your time and effort Brother.
Cool vid man no matter what people say I just like and appreciate folks like you taking the time to show us what different types of ammo can do. For me the hst is what I choose but it's vids like this that help me choose. Thanks
Tiffany Montgomery Thank you I appreciate that
Bro, don't let any naysayers get to ya! Great job. You highlighted that the critical duty is not as advertised. Yes, it will go through a windshield then into a two legged type but otherwise is unpredictable. Critical Duty wants to be all things to all people and cannot. The HST is what it is and is far more predictable-it is more affordable too.
Good Video.
But With all do respect the Hornady Critical Duty did not fail as you would perceive. Critical duty has a harder lead Core to make this particular round barrier blind. This is why my agency issues it will punch right through car doors, windshields and other fairly tough materials to reach the intended target and give reliable expansion. The one you should consider testing is the Hornady Critical Defense which is a similar round but has a softer Lead Core this round is best suited for concealed carry over Hornady Critical Duty.
@Bob White You seem to really dislike the Critical Duty rounds! I wouldn't totally call BS here. While the HST and GD are superior rounds IMO, the CD does serve a purpose and I have a handful of SWAT/law enforcement customers that use the CD as their duty load, in full size side arms. The ones I have spoken with have good real work things to say about the rounds. If memory serves me correctly, they were each using the .40S&W, but I do recall one of them was a SWAT member using the 9mm version and also had great things to say about it in multiple real world situations he and his team encountered over the years. So, it certainly isn't a useless or gimmicky round by any stretch of the imagination. With that said, I carry 147gr standard pressure HST's in a G19. If I had a second choice, it would be the 124gr +P Gold Dot. Both are amazing rounds and like you mentioned before, they are two of the very best out there on the market for both LE and civilians alike. Cheers & Merry Christmas! Jason ballisticimpressions.com
@@jasonbell1950 Now, this is practical viewpoint. Love HST and Gold dot, gen2.
Love that hst wound cavity. Spiral of beauty.
I thought the exact same thing!! That deadly spiral is gorgeous! I'm debating which of these rounds to carry with in my springfield XDM, I think I am gonna go with speer gold dot but really I could buy any of these rounds and feel confidant in it's performance when my life is on the line. I like the hornady critical defense in 9mm a lot too
Apples and oranges. 135 grain is not going to expand as much as 115 or 124 grain. Anything beyond 124 +P is going to be too slow to give the best possible expansion. I’ve been using Speer GD for about 28 years and the only ammo that compares is HST. However if I were back on duty again I’d definitely carry a magazine full of Critical Duty for situations where there were potential barriers. All three are top notch.
Very good testing protocol. Don't sweat what these RUclipsrs think. They're just like armchair quarterbacks because they can criticize you and your testing, yet they're not about to invest in doing one themselves. What can you say except the results are what they are.
I appreciate your investment, time, and keeping with established protocol then appeasing the the whiners. I enjoy your bullet tests and gain knowledge from your results. Keep on keeping on brother. Thanks!
Stupid
@@ackack1226 Coward Comment!
HST or Critical Defense is what I carry. Even when traveling to gun shows with hundreds of guns in my trailer and being a huge target for MS13. Critical Duty is not nickle plated brass with sealed primer. You need nickle plated brass with sealed primer for your carry round.
Ive done my own experiments with several of the top hollowpoints in the market and the HST has always given me the best results.I keep HST's in every gun i have,the heaviest weight per caliber.They expand very nice and penetrate enough for me.If you can't find any HST's,get some Winchester Ranger T's....my second choice
The many tests I've seen all seem to get the best results with the HSTs, 124 and 147 gr., consistently. They're all I buy now. Get them online for ~$30/50 rounds after the recent price increase. Word is that some sellers (Bonefrog) have been told they are no longer allowed to sell the 50-rd boxes to non-LEO customers.
Damn that sucks,thats where i get them.When did this start?Glad i bought the ones i did buy at the time
@@abelperez2931 That's what several of the regular posters said on the Glock forum; I've never used Bonefrog. It's been within the past month or so. SGAmmo and targetsportsusa both still have them for anybody. Shipping's about $12 whether you buy one box or ten at both places. I think targetsports gives free shipping if you buy a case, but I never buy that many at one time.
My city's PD has used the Ranger T T series 127gr +P+ for many years, SIG P226R/P229R DA-SA(traditional double action). The 127gr 9x19mm +P+ Ranger T is extremely rare. I've only seen it on open sources 2/3 times in the last 15+ years...
Some people get upset if their favorite Round performs poorly....We can't call for a " Wardrobe Change " in the Middle of a Defensive Situation. Better to know how a Bullet performs now than when your life may depend on it. Great Video and I appreciate all you do....Interesting and Informative.
Nice vid...
Observation: your "clothing" is being "worn" inside out. T-shirts go next to the body (gel) with the denim "jacket" on the outside. The FBI test is meant to replicate wearing a jacket over a fleece vest with an outer shirt and an undershirt.
The garment order can make a difference since denim, being the most dense can possibly plug a hollowpoint.
From what I’ve read Critical Duty is an enforcement round that will allow for barrier penetration, where as the Critical Defense is more of a home defense short penetration round.
I think in the real world 90% of the time as long as it still expands after passing through a hoodie you are good to go.
Come to pdx. The number of zombies wearing 2 or 3 pairs of pants and like 4 or 5 shirts hoodies and jackets. I care how rounds preform. You own every round. Clowns on the internet😒!
These are the three rounds I carry in my gun with my preference being for the gold dot and HST rounds. Long history of working well and many tests to prove them.
The HST 124 gr. is what I use for carry. It doesn't over penetrate and dumps all its energy inside which is exactly what its designed to do.
Just like every single hollow point ever made
The relevant results of any test is good winter clothing for me is Carhartt coat's so I would not apologize for any of these tests that you are doing
So basically for 9mm federal premium hst is the way to go. Lol good testing.
Federal HST either 124 or 147 gr are the way to go. They will never let you down in a critical situation !
@Loonytoones85 Basically Rapid Blood Loss Kills. He's testing bullets designed for different use. However; all of them will succeed in it's objective.
I load mine with critical defense with a spare magazine loaded the same. But I also carry an extra 2 magazine's loaded with critical duty. The duty rounds are meant to go through barriers. Defense are meant to expand quickly.
Thanx.
Great vid.
Check out the critical "defense."
Its lighter than the critical duty and expands every time.
The critical "duty" is a heavier round made for service. They are meant to be able to penetrate barriers i.e. windshields and still be effective. Hence less expansion.
Ryan Lewis Thank you! Yeah i’ve learned a little bit since i made this vid and have since tested the critical defense. I appreciate it.
The H Critical Duty did not have poor expansion; it did exactly what it was designed to do.- minimal expansion max penetration.
So why not just use hardball it also penetrates great with no expansion.
Good review my guy! I feel good knowing my HST's are solid rounds an why I use them daily! Both of the other rounds are dependable an quality rounds as well!💯✌🏻
Nice job man!! No apologies required, excellent tests! Great info and very helpful!
I no longer work in an LEO agency but almost everyone that I knew carried HSTs. A good friend supervising in a Capital police agency swears by HST and a friend in Homeland Security carries both on and off duty a Glock .45 with HSTs. These are real worlders that have cleared their holsters in combat. I have carried HSTs in my sidearms while only available to LEO and after to civilians. In my neck of the woods no one in LE "experiments" with their lives. I will not follow the new IDIQ contract for one reason only. Contracts are let for cost justifications in government, especially federal government. That means just because a certain company landed an IDIQ contract that is not a guarantee of performance other than delivery schedules- no matter what studies, white papers or tests you point to. Not that CD isn't a really good defensive load it's just that in my opinion it isn't the best load. And that is the great thing about this country, you can carry a firearm in a lot of places and you can choose your load. And if you don't like where you live and its laws, you can move. If you want a better load you can research and talk to the men and women who carry firearms in their work.
Great test! Only complaint though is you got the clothing barrier protocol backwards! It should have been denim, fleece, cotton, cotton, gel, to simulate the typical layering of methed out Jay Lenno (jacket, sweater, T-shirt, white beater, malnourished body) ;)
But in all seriousness, I'd bet the results would more closely compare to your 4x denim test. I have a feeling that first layer encountered has the most effect on the round's performance. For example, perhaps the more coarse denim material affects earlier displacement of the polymer tip in the Critical Duty, allowing for proper expansion within the desired threshold. Either way, I expect the no-denim results would remain the same as you found, even if "property layered," as the cotton and fleece materials are more similar to each other from a texture perspective, and the cotton, cotton, fleece layering more accurately represents say a cotton hoodie sweatshirt, and thus a real-world plausible material layering.
You do need heavy layers. In fact, you need more, when I was a cop in Oklahoma we had a case in winter where the perpetrator was wearing a thick leather motorcycle jacket and several layers under the jacket. The jacket stopped #4 buck shot and the officer had to resort to his 357 to down the perpetrator!
The leather jacket scenario was the first thing that came to mind when I heard people complained about the 4pc denim test. As well as the thicker coats worn in winter
I run 124 gr +P CD and it tested different than 135gr. 124 stops in block and expands better. I could trust GD, HST or CD 124gr +P.
I carry duty cause it’s enough expansion to get the job done without a barrier but will perform light years ahead of the others with a barrier in front. You never know what type of position you might be in when you need your defense ammo and I feel like the duty gives me a good balance of anything that can be thrown my way.
The EDC load my wife(G26) and I(G43) carry is the 124gr+P Speer Gold Dot.
It's the same load I carried in my G19 before I retired from law enforcement as a police firearms instructor.
Great video. This just shows how different bullets act unpredictably when different barriers are introduced.
Nelson rodriguez Exactly. Thanks man
Thanks for your efforts with these tests. There are very informative and help a great deal. You’re to the point and easy to understand. You’re doing a great job. Keep up the good work and please keep more videos coming.
Can you try the Hornady critical defense. They are made for ccw smaller guns and critical duty is made for full size handguns. In NJ we are not allowed to carry HP but we can carry polymer tip so I’m very interested in the best polymer Tipped ammo! Thank you!
Props for doing the test a little differently. I never understood why so many RUclipsrs do the 4 layers. I don't care what the fbi test is id rather see more real world scenarios
Awesome video series man. Loved being able to go back and reference all the different bullets, looking for different things every time to truly determine the absolute best.
Goin with 124 HST for "standard" home defense stock, until I can figure out a way to get my hands on some Underwood 65grain XD.
First let me thank you for all the good work that went into this video and say my comment is not directed at you or your work. It is mostly directed at the ammo companies that get in lock step with FBI standards and load their ammunition to perform at 12-15" penetration at 15- 20 feet . Typically at a velocities of 1050 - 1150 fps , I feel that this ammunition is vastly underloaded and far from the most versatile defense ammunition, and at best, and down right dangerous to the user. This ammunition is designed to perform only in the perfect scenario of " 0-15 feet and with absolutely no obstruction " In my experience of self defense fights " Iraq " and " Arizona " where the distance always increased and cover was employed, this ammo would not be my choice. One example : When I lived in Arizona we built a house 6 miles south of Tucson , just out of city limits . One morning I started out the front door to go to work carrying my Glock 19 . My new truck was parked just outside our fence 75 feet away , just as I stepped out two shots rang out followed by 6-8 more shots " 4 Hispanics had decided they wanted to take my new truck to Mexico and did not want to be disturbed " 1, they had my vehicle for cover , but even without cover , I highly doubt this ammo would have expanded reliably or penetrated more than 6-8 inches because of the velocity drop at that distance. I dashed back inside my home and let them have the truck without firing a shot " Because I had a wife and three young daughters in the house and I was not going to put them in the middle of a firefight " . But what if those assailants had decided to invade my home ? I believe such underpowered ammo would have small effect shooting threw a window or door to knock some of them down before they broke in. I would have to wait until they had entered the house and have no obstruction between us before getting an effective shot .
I do use the Hornady & Gold Dot bullets for self defence but I load them maximum 200-300 fps faster and I get great expansion and penetration .
Besides, when is the last time you heard of a civilian shot and killed by a bullet over penetration " Not counting Chicago gang drive by's " . Anyway thanks for letting me rant at the ammo company's . And for those who don't reload Buffalo Bore ammo is a reliable self defence ammo.
Self defense bullets typically work optimally in a narrow velocity range. Some ammo when loaded hot enough will expand too much and get less penetration. Load it even hotter and you'll get more penetration but less expansion. Check out some of the different 10mm loadings.
I'd do some testing for your own loads since you're going well outside of the bullets designed for FBI protocol
The reason 4 layers of denim along with properly calibrated organic 10% ballistics gel is used is because that is the best predictor (and predicts it very reliably) of how a handgun bullet actually performs in a human body. If you deviate from that, then it is not as closely correlated. That is per DocGKR. Also, none of those 3 loads are on his recommended list. However, the +P versions of all 3 are on his list.
9 mm:
Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
Remington Golden Saber bonded 124 gr +P JHP (GSB9MMD)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester 124 gr +P bonded JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P PT
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Speer G2 147 gr PT
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)
I love my Hornady ammo...always reliable and accurate.
Speer Gold Dot, good stuff! 😉👍
Don Blake is correct. Critical Defense is made to stop after going through clothing. Critical Duty is made to perform for Officers shooting through heavy glass, drywall, light steel, etc. I didn’t know that until the video that auto-played right before this one. Where the inventor of the Critical Defense round explained it all. He said he started out just injecting silicon into hollow points. Nice video and thanks for the info.
I also see that you’ve been told 100’s of other times in the comments, and I’m sure your tired of being reminded. Either way thanks for the video.;)
My order
1. HST
2. SGD
3. HCD
I’ve found that if you use the same mags for range and carry, the continuous chambering and unchambering of the same round of HCD will have so much set back, to the point where I wouldn’t even shoot them. The lip of the bullet would be set below the edge of the casing.
I've always been a Hornady guy, but your series is making me want to switch to federal. Great job, sir.
Critical duty did expand the pedals are all the way back. While it’s traveling through the target it’s opening up and twisting through. It’s so powerful that the pedals go all the way back.
I think they all performed exactly as they were designed to. The Hornady rounds always focus on penetration and I wouldn't be surprised if Gold Dot is designed for adequate penetration too. The HST looks exactly like they usually do.
That is actually the way critical duty usually expands...it’s specifically a law enforcement round intended for hard barriers and is made with a substantially harder lead alloy than the other 2
The 135 grain Critical Duty 9mm +P is designed for barrier penetration with expansion. In the real world, the 115 grain +P and +P+ have excellent one shot stops. In the ER the surgeons do not pull out a hollowpoint that is mushroomed like we see here. Many never open and are deformed.
Many agencies went to the 147 grain loads and getting good results from them. The Winchester SXT T series and PDX1 are good choices in 147 grain.
Good video, thanks for putting it together. For my two cents, I avoid high priced ammo that won't expand when hitting water jugs or bare gel. Then I look to see that it reliably cycles through my pistol, whether it is locally available or available online in my area, and whether it is affordable enough that I can frequently practice with it.
Chas A Thank you
I know this is old and I'm sure you've learned the difference between "permanent" and "temporary" wound channels by now. Temporary, is the initial larger expansion of the wound channel. Permanent, is the remaining smaller wound channel.
I simply don’t understand why the FBI doesn’t use a simulated bone material. Everyone I know has a rib cage. Great vid, keep up the good work. I really enjoy watching them.
Ron McCain I agree. Thank you
Gel and denim have consistent results. Bone is hard to get consistent results
@@thehamburglar9mm LOLOLOLOLOLOL
It's been a pet peeve of mine for a long time which is why I love people like Paul Harrell who do something like that (though there are issues with his testing protocol)
Strange things happen when a bullet hits a rib. Any deer/hog hunter can tell you that.
This guy does great test! Some people just shoot in gel without clothing! Never seen a naked attacker without clothing! He's testing the best 3 in my opinion! Keep up the good work. I like your test!
Constructive criticism? Different ammo performs differently in different barrel lengths. Listing the barrel length- or at least the weapon - would allow the viewer to compare apples to apples. If, for example, the barrel were short(such as a Glock 19) a more compatible Hornady round would have been Critical Defense as opposed to Critical Duty.
Hornady CD 135 gr. +P is my EDC round. The FBI chose this round as their EDC ammo because it does a better job at what they're looking for in a SD bullet than any other JHP. I have been using this ammo awhile before the FBI chose it as their EDC ammo. My 9mm backup ammo is PDX1.
As to the Speer GDHP, NYPD has been using this ammo for a long time now. And I believe that Chicago PD is also using this round. It would seem to me that if it was not working in cold weather of the winter times of both cities, they would have dropped it by now. And a lot of folks say 147 gr for winter time.
Also read a few years back that the Hornady Critical Duty did good on paper and tests like this ,but not in the real world.
Attacked by _JAY🤣LENO_
Rumor has it that Jay Leno wears so much denim that he is completely bulletproof 😎
lol ya I chuckled on that line.
The denim is an important part cause it can be a descent representation of carhartt jackets. Descent, yet somewhat poor but gives you a pretty good idea of how it would perform against canvas
I would have loved to have seen one of those 50 grain 9mm high velocity rounds in this test.
I use HST in ALL of my personal defense guns. But here to testify, the Hornady Flex will put a serious hurt on hogs through my Glock .357 SIG. All three are great ammo. Thanks for the vid, well done. Much appreciated.
The problem I see with these tests is following bullets that hit the cavity of prevoius bullets gives false results.
The Critical Duty performed and did what it was supposed to do. It is not made to be a major expander, it's made to penetrate more with minimal expansion. So it goes through car doors, windshields, etc. Then into more "obstacles". Cool and good video though bro! Thanks 👍
justin dilio Thank you!
Between multiple firearms in 380, 9mm and 300 Blackout, no other brand of ammo has provided me with failures to feed as often as Hornady. That thin, sharp rim of copper surrounding the red plug seems to hang up on a variety of feed ramps. (Except in Glocks, which seem to feed everything reliably...) In general, I'm unimpressed by the Hornady line.
Great video and as you saw yourself, results do not always come back the way we think they would. As far as all the back and forth about what is used for layered testing, it should be noted expectations of what your projectile will have to encounter could greatly change depending on your location as well as what season it is. Example, I live in the SE and the summers are rather warm. Encounters I could have during the summer could easily be with someone only wearing a T or a very light polo shirt. However, in the winter, I could be encountering leather, fleece, denim, and/or other barriers that would be quite different than summertime. For these reasons my personal defense rounds change depending on time of year. In the dead of winter I carry Hornady Critical Defense, as Critical Duty has more penetration that I do not personally desire for close range defensive contacts. Of course there is great room for debate on that also. In the summers, I carry Speer Gold Dot because I do not worry about clothing barriers nearly as much, if at all. Many may disagree with my thinking here and I understand that as well as support what another would chose for themselves as the round(s) they would choose.
Every test I have seen of the HST it has been phenomenal.
Never buy the 20 round box as the 50 round box is less than half the price per round.
I agree! I've learned that Federal and Speer (owned by same company) have both told some online retailers that they can no longer sell the 50-rd boxes to non-LEO buyers. Bonefrog now requires LEO credentials. SGAmmo and targetsportsusa still sell them to anyone, though.
"Phenomenal" is the Underwood Xtreme Defense +P. It blasts through all FBI mediums and doesn't fail, even the sheet metal test that ALL hollow points fail!
@@TheTurtlee1 bs
The 50 round box is commercial grade and is inferior to the 20 round box which is why the price difference. The bullet on the commercial grade 50 round box does not retain its weight as well, the serrations in the bullet are not as deep, and the cartridge is not loaded as hot as the 20 round box
@@KB-kw8ni Well, check for yourself.
ruclips.net/video/0piGeTVMZWs/видео.html
Great video, I prefer the 124g HST that expansion seems hard to beat in most of the tests I’ve watched.
It's not as perplexing as it might seem. The Hornady CD uses a harder, high-antimony lead bullet. When other types of barriers are included in testing - like drywall, glass, mild steel, plywood - the CD has proved to be the most barrier blind. Through drywall, traditional HPs easily fill with the gypsum and create a "de facto" FMJ. Through glass, traditional HPs will easily "cap", thereby collapsing the hollow point into another de facto FMJ. Through drywall or glass, the CD will expand a lot like you just tested. Hence, it's considered to be barrier blind. Keep in mind that expansion and barrier ammo are a kind of oxymoron - they're self-contradictory. So, for the best average performance "across a broad spectrum" of target materials, CD is the compromise round that has proved most optimal. I run 124gr HST's but I keep a backup mag with CD because, in the unlikely event I need to go to a 2nd mag, there'll likely be barriers involved. Hence, my inclusion of CD for bu. As an aside, the FBI found CD to be the most accurate ammo they've ever tested. If you can get a copy of Oct 2018 of Guns&Ammo, you'll see a feature article on CD. Very worthwhile in my opinion.
From what I understand, the Critical Duty is designed to pass through heavier barriers before expanding so it makes sense that it would have performed better in the 4 layers of denim test compared to this test. I better comparison for this test probably would have been the Hornady Critical Defense.
I was thinking the exact same thing, I believe Hornady explains the difference in these rounds on their website and RUclips. Good catch.
I started using Federal HST after I got my Kimber micro .380 (great Lil' all metal 7 + 1 pocket rocket), the smallest firearm I own for summer carry. Wanted the most I could get out of it, & the HST worked the best of everything I tried. Gonna start buying it for my 9's & 45's now too.
I liked your test results and I think they consistent with the bullet design and metallurgy. The Critical Duty is a law enforcement round. The others I believe are personal protection rounds. I would bet that the Critical Duty round is designed with a harder alloy then say Critical Defense because it must defeat harder barriers like the four layer denim test for example as well as sheet metal, car glass and others. Great demonstration. Thank you.
You are right, the proper comparisson would be with Critical Defense rounds.
I carry HST and Speer gold dots, I'm also a fan of critical duty that's been promoted heavily as the round passing the FBI test.. but why doesn't the FBI Carry this round... last I heard they were carrying gold dots and HST
Good video thanks for sharing. I think the 4 layer denim test is viable if you shoot someone with a denim jacked on in the chest they Do have pockets on the chest meaning you have the outer layer of the picket the inner layer and the jacket layer which is three layers and if you catch the arm over the chest then you are looking at 5 layers of denim so I don’t think it’s a far fetched test and you do need to test worst case scenario which is what you are doing so I don’t know why anyone would get mad at you. You are helping us understand these rounds and worst case scenarios so thanks for sharing. Great video.
I live in north central Texas, and this testing protocol more realistically represents the maximum clothing layers worn in this part of the country, so it is more meaningful to me. Thanks for taking the time to put your videos together.
Tim Farley Thank you I appreciate it.
Shows how much just clothing will affect hollow points. Great job! Thanks!
I realize this is very late but shouldn't the denim have been the first piece not the last? Protocol would be t shirt, shirt, fleece then denim; I believe that could have an effect on terminal performance.
There is a Gold Dot 125 grain for higher velocities like 357 sig. It is made different at the tip. I want to see how it preforms against the 124 grain.
With critical duty overpenatrating not worried. Even if the bullet over penatrates it won't have enough energy to really damage
The reason you got such serious penetration with the Critical Duty ammo is the jacket is heavier as it was designed to penetrate barriers. This was stated by Hornady as by design. Their stsndard Critical Defense was designed for concealed carry as anti personnel rounds like t bgg e other two tested.
hornady critical duty and horandy critical are acually desined for different applications critical duty is made for barrier penitration outside the norm
The layer of denim isnt even enough if its winter. How many people wear a heavy carhartt jacket? that stuff is like a very heavy denim then the liner to it. Then usually some sort of a long sleeve shirt like a flannel or something then maybe an under shirt or work shirt.
You came along way since your earlier videos I’ve been a fan since day one
Thanks for the great video and this is NOT criticism but wouldn't it be better if the Denim was the first layer?
10% jell is like jumping in to water. 20% jell is like jumping in to water from a 10 story building. ( Like hitting cement). Witch do you believe is going to be a closer representation of a bullet impacting a human body?.
Isn't Critical duty used for going through barriers (more for police use)? Critical defense is better for civilian carry because it gets less penetration??
The 10% ballistic gelatin used for law enforcement testing was specifically designed to mimic animal tissue, and the 20% was designed to NATO specifications. So for defensive handgun ammo testing I would think that the 10% mixture provides more accurate real world results. Minus four layer's of denim of course. That said my prefered carry ammo is Gold Dot followed closely by the HST.
You do realize that both times the critical duty round impacted into an area that was already compromised with a previous wound channel right?
To make this a fair and valid comparison use a fresh gel block each time and then show the results...
great test! i wonder if it makes a difference to have the fabric layered the other way around... with the denim on the outside and the teeshirt on the inside? probably not a huge difference... but maybe!
Sophia Leonarda I didn’t even think of that!
Andy Luo either way its an excellent video! :)
3 solid choices. Depends on availability. Im comfortable with gold dot hst or critical duty in my chamber and magazine.
The practice of utilizing 4 layers of denim over ballistic gelatin comes from the IWBA (google them and see they are very credible) whose testing standards are the standard everyone from the FBI to individuals to compare different projectiles to each other by removing as many variables as possible. Also, their ballistic gelatin is calibrated for consistency but also to simulate a living being. (Obviously without bone) It’s not that the IWBA thinks everyone wears four layers of denim, just to use a tough commonly worn clothing item to see if it affects the projectiles ability to expand.
I think the main difference in this test compared to other tests because of the gel block being 20% gelatin material instead of only 10, when you double the thickness of the gel block it can most definitely affect the performance whether it's make it better or make it worse🤔
Kinda regardless the best ammunition should still put preform the ones that are worse just like if someone was trying to attack you your bullet is probably going to drop a small skinny person faster than a big fat person does that mean the ammo that dropped the small person in one shot is now trash because it took 2 shots to drop a huge fat one? I don’t think so unless some other brand were to drop em both in one shot and they got shot in the exact same place
Critical duty is for full size hand gun and is meant to penetrate further the round you should be testing is the critical defense round for concealed carry
I think it's good to test in bare gel, 4 layers of denim, and a heavy clothing test that's not quite so heavy. The more information out there, the better. I do think 4 layers of denim is a relevant test. "Who wears that much heavy clothing?" Apparently, y'all have never been to Fairbanks, Alaska, when it's 40 degrees F below zero...
What is best suited to Florida in the summer is probably ill suited to Alaska in the winter, like Masaad Ayoob has said
I could be wrong, I was wrong once before but the first test hornady bullet looks like an expanded critical defense bullet. The critical duty round is designed to not expand as much and penetrate more.
Ron McCain I assume you’re talking about the 4 layer denim test video, not this video? And i agree it does look that way but at the time of making that video I had never used or bought Critical Defense and that was the first round out of a new Critical Duty Box. So unless their was a mistake on their end it definitely is a critical duty round. Ive talked about this with a couple other people and I agree it is unusual for that round and i’ve tested them both a lot now. That 4 layer denim test is a weird one though and it yields some strange results sometimes which is why I dont do it much anymore.
@@1ShotTV That projectile you use to compare to with the two Critical Duty projectiles is 100% a Critical Defense. The first way of telling is simply by the expansion profile. The Critical Duty is not designed to expand more than it did in your test. In fact, it performed just as they designed it to do. It's not a wide, wicked looking expanded bullet. It has it's purposes in the LE industry and personally, I don't believe it is a great choice for civilian use. Stick with a real world performer like the HST or the Gold Dot. The second way of telling is a quick look at the projectile, below the cannelure. The Critical Duty has what they call an Interlock band, which acts as a way to "bond" the jacket/core. I can tell from the video at the 14:00 mark that the fully expanded projectile on the right is most certainly a Critical Defense. If you still have the box you pulled that round from, check and see if any have the "H" imprinted in the polymer tip. If it does, then it's a Critical Duty bullet. If not, along with no Interlock band, it's a Critical Defense. Either way, great videos. It's a whole lot of fun testing all the various rounds out there, huh?! Cheers and Happy Holidays! Jason ballisticimpressions.com
Hornady Critical duty is supposed to look like that, it gives the same results and is designed for penetration, If you want bigger expansion use hornady critical defense. I find the results very uniform form hornady ammunition.
I believe the Hornadies fully expanded, however, peeled back much sooner? Maybe the Gold Dots & HSTs are designed to STAY fully expanded; where the Critical Duties are designed to fold all the way back after expanding?
Nice, appreciate you putting the time and money into this. I use the HST, and the Critical Duty, both in 9mm and .40S&W. I'm assuming these are 9mm (maybe I missed it somewhere)? What is the HST, 147gr?, the Critical Duty, 135gr? also the Gold Dot?
Sorry man, I was one to suggest shooting thru 1 layer only, I was thinking it would be more realistic, either way I still appreciate your videos, they are very informational and I do appreciate all the hard work time and energy and bullets put into these. good videos!
FBI Test protocol require a second block since they mandate 14-18" of penetration even with hard barriers. You need to always have a 2nd catch block then you will see if they "Fail".
Critical duty did exactly what it is designed to do. Penetrate more, expand some, but less. it is made of a harder core with expansion restriction, for better sectional density to go through car doors and windshields and still stop the perp. If I was LEO I would be happy with what I saw here. Critical Defense is more comparable to HST and GD.
Next time, arrange the clothing layers as follows: denim, fleece, 1st t-shirt layer, 2nd t-shirt layer. Or if no denim layer, arrange as follows: fleece, 1st t-shirt layer, 2nd t-shirt layer because this is the way a person will layer his clothes and the sequence of barriers a bullet will go through.
Thanks for doing these tests. It would be good if you could test more than one round of each, though. Sometimes some brands aren't totally consistent, and there can always be a freak result. Seems even in one gel block you could do 2 of each, as you seem to be a very accurate shooter.
abc Thank you