It’s a different world, plus he lied, acknowledged he lied and signed an agreement to be banned. He also lied to fans and sold fake merchandise to them
@@mattlaeff724 you know the difference between a citizen and a professional gambling on his own sport? He knew it was illegal and unprofessional and against the rules he didn’t care.
@@LMDiazBX So did Steve Howe, who kept popping positive for coke, got suspended 7 times, was even banned "for life", and was always allowed back. (Whether you agree with it or not, a rule is a rule, right? Not if you're an unrepentant junkie, apparently.) That speaks way worse for baseball than Pete Rose, who admitted that he screwed up and has a good message for people, "Do not do what I did, ever. I can tell you 100 different ways that it was stupid and screwed up." Rose should only have gotten what he got if he was betting against his own team and throwing games to win at the gambling table. That didn't happen and it's been proven. Trivia question: How many members of the 2017 Houston Astros were punished for their cheating scandal that the entire team was in on? ZERO. Still think Pete Rose got fair treatment?
It does not matter what you or the HOF says or doesn't say about Pete Rose. He was one of the best players in the history of Baseball. Pete Rose is an imperfect human being, just like you and me. He did the work. He made the sacrifices. Gambler or not, he deserves the credit.
I went to Cooperstown about nine years ago. Pete didn't have a plaque in the Plaque Gallery but there was a display with Pete's bat and a few other items of his (jersey and glove, I think). He hasn't been inducted but the HOF recognized his accomplishments.
That’s what my brother in law told me, he said also the lifting of the team ban which allowed the Reds to retire his number and induct him into the teams Hall Of Fame will be the biggest compromise they will allow for.
The HOF has plenty of artifacts for Pete, Manny, McGwire, Canseco, Clemens. But won't induct them. But it's all about that plaque; that's their white whale.
There’s tons of memorabilia of his in the museum. My friend and I have a dumb joke after going to Cooperstown. People say Pete rose isn’t in the hall of fame. Yes he is, he’s all over it.
but he has apologized, if you mean admitted he made mistakes. If you mean get down on his hands and knees, sobbing, tears flowing, crying to the commissioner, no, that's never happened.
No one is trying to. He lied to everyone for 2 decades. I was at his "stage show" and he joked multiple times about betting. As Dan said, he blames everyone else. I was a huge Pete fan, and I nearly had tears in my eyes when he got the single off Eric Show for #4,192. I don't really care if he gets into the HOF or not, but I would never campaign in his behalf for it.
FYI Dan- the Harrelson/Rose fight wasn't random. When Joe Morgan was doing commentary on Reds TV years ago, he said that Harrelson did some trash talking against the Reds during the '73 NLCS, and Joe and Pete made a pact that whichever one of them got a shot to take Bud out at second base first would do it, and Pete got the first shot. Harrelson and Rose would later play on the Phillies together and became good friends. They both joked about that scuffle in later years.
I know this: Without Pete Rose, my Phillies wouldn't have won their first World Series championship in 1980. I also know this: Pete broke a rule that you just can't break, and he agreed to a lifetime ban.
@@Thataintnothing, I remember that game. If I'm not mistaken it was a Saturday game of the week back when they were still doing that. Wasn't it the same year as his hitting streak but before the streak started?
Great convo Patrick. I could see the pain in your eyes and in your voice as you spoke about arguably one of the greatest players in the history of the game we all love. RIP Pete.
Rose has said that Giamatti told him to accept the suspension, do some good deeds, admit what he did, and he would support reinstating him. Unfortunately for Rose, Giamatti died less than a year after the suspension so that was that.
Contrition is the best and most curative medicine. For a period of 5 years I worked as an expert white collar defense in financial matters. The best defense to avoid jail was contrition.
Avoid jail? What a frickin' joke. They want you in jail, you're going to jail. And, contrition for what? Is this no longer a free country? Oh wait, nevermind.
It's hard for me to sympathize with Pete. He lied to his teammates about betting. Joe Morgan and Johnny Bench then went to bat for him to get him in the HOF. He denied it until he wrote the book that he admitted it. Joe and Johnny then had nothing to do with him. They would never come back to the HOF if Pete made it in. He's a compulsive liar as well as compulsive gambler. You made your bed...
What? Dude Joe Morgan is dead. Been dead. Plus Pete reconciled with both Johnny & Joe after that book. He still appears at events for the Reds with Johnny and he appeared at events with Joe, until his death, for both the 1975-76 Reds and separately Joe & Tony for the 1983 Phillies. That issue has been resolved.
He played baseball better than most. That's what his baseball career should be based on. He's done more positive for the game than most. Including those mates in the hof
LOL...No...It's not sad. He's an unapologetic and arrogant prick, and every time he's had a chance in his life to take the obvious high road, he's gone as low as possible. Will never feel bad for him.
True, but when he agreed to the ban it wasn’t an automatic DQ from being in the hall of fame. They changed the rule after he agreed to the ban. That said, as a native Cincinnatian, I think he should have admitted fault much earlier and been much more honest. But that’s not who he is. He’ll probably be voted in after he dies.
@@dougfromsoanierana Yeah, his agreement with Giamatti allowed him to apply for reinstatement after one year. But Giamatti died and the next commissioner made it clear there was no longer any deal. And then the HOF committee voted to keep him out of the HOF.
it's sad because pete rose is a quintessential cincinnati west-sider. from western hills high school, blue collar family, not the most natural talent, but just worked harder than everyone else. the fact that he went on to win multiple world series titles for the hometown team and set the records he did is storybook. people would be worshipping the ground he walked on. there'd be countless statues around the city had he not ruined his reputation. a lot of people from cincinnati still worship him don't get me wrong, but it was definitely massively dampened. you can tell the people here want their hometown hero to be rehabilitated so badly and I think it really hurts so many people that are from here that he's sort of been taken away from them
Pete Rose won the NL MVP Award in 1973, when he also earned the 1973 NL Batting title, hitting .338 with 230 hits that led BOTH leagues, along with his 5 HR.
Tom Brady won 7 Super Bowls, several league MVP’s, and broke just about every record in the book. But if I polled people in Cincinnati on the streets whether Tom should be BANNED from the NFL, about 99 percent would say yes. I’m not saying defending Pete makes you wrong. I’m saying it makes people Hippocrates.
You must be very proud of your signature to turn down money for an autograph. I'll draw you a self portrait on a dinner roll, if you want to pay me for it.
As a kid he was the only player that I can remember wanting to watch on TV. You can't tell the story of baseball without Pete Rose. I think he definitely belongs in the HOF.
@@martinsundland7614 people who still hold Pete Rose in contempt for his gambling while today's sports organizations are literally signing joint venture multimillion dollar deals with gambling companies are completely ridiculous. Let's all be tolerant of the rampant drug abuse which we know for a fact directly impacted the games but don't you dare place bets. Oh and pay no attention to the Fan Duel and Draft Kings commercials on every 20 minutes and plastered around every stadium. Give me a freaking break. Careful when walking around your hypocrisy is hanging out.
@@waywardwest Sure - make up your own set of "rules" if they can be called that. We should all belong to an organization and make up our own set of standards at the same time. Just because someone was a good athlete he shouldn't be given a pass because he won at all costs. The guy's a narcissistic jerk, just like the 45th president.
@@waywardwest There is no hypocrisy. No sports organization is promoting gambling by players or coaches. That is still against the rules. Gambling is for fans. Fans can't affect the outcome of games.
And thousands of musical artists signed their lives away to record labels. Those record labels and contracts must be just! Astro's players and coaches only got a year suspension for cheating in the World Series and playoffs. The all-time hit leader must be kept out of hall of fame because he bet on his team as a coach. Now the league is fully in bed with gambling. Absurd logic.
Yes, but when he signed that agreement in 1989, there was no rule in the Hall of Fame against banned players. They changed the rule in 1991 that any banned player cannot be on a Hall of Fame ballot. Coincidentally Rose was eligible in 1992. Even Joe Jackson was on the ballot in 1939.
I’m 56, and the only person that I feel that can compare to Pete’s playing style and on the field domination was Larry Bird. Both players weren’t the most talented, but yet we’re extremely dominant because of their shear will to win.
You must be smoking glue sticks to make such a ridiculous claim about Bird. Altuve is today's version of Pete Rose, with more power. And he also was part of a scandal, so there's that.
Paul Hornung was a degenerate gambler too. Hornung was interviewed on a Sunday morning sports show and when asked if he had quit gambling he said he hadn't gambled for months. A guy in my group I hung around with said "I just played poker with Hornung last weekend"
Pete Rose was a great player. I grew up watching him, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, Tony Perez, and Sparky Anderson and, for my money, the Big Red Machine was the most entertaining baseball team ever. When I think of them, I can see Pete's exaggerated batting stance, Perez's dough-kneading bat grip, Morgan's arm flap, Bench throwing runners out, and Anderson skipping over the white lines. Those teams, as well as the Phillies team of 1980, showed Pete's greatness. And Pete had great teammates in Philly like Mike Schmidt, Bake McBride, and Bob Boone.
What PR did put a taint on the big red machine the only national League team to win back to back world series over the last 100 years. Like Roger Clements and Barry Bonds he doesn't deserve to be in the HoF.
The Reds were dynamic, but they were also called a “machine” for a reason. They were corporate America’s dream team: button down, short hair, boring uniforms, and playing in a cookie cutter stadium with artificial turf. To non-Red fans they were like the Evil Empire in Star Wars. The most colorful and controversial and entertaining team of that period was thee Oakland A’s. The A’s featured mustaches, incredibly colorful uniforms, the best nicknames in the sport (Catfish, Blue Moon, Campy, etc), the most charismatic and fascinating player in the game (Reggie), a genius control freak of an owner who made as many headlines as his players but was as innovative and nutty as Bill Veeck, constant fights and drama amongst teammates, and a flair for the dramatic like no other team.
@@jodi2847 what he did as a player and what he did as a manager was two different things. He has memorabilia in the hall from when he was a player. If Pete doesn’t belong in the hall, neither does any of his belongings. Seems like a double standard. The commissioner violated their agreement as soon as it was signed. To keep Pete out now is just vindictive. He has been punished long enough. Get over yourself.
@@jodi2847 Where does it stop> Steroids? Beating your wife? Abusive drinking? Abusing fans? Had he thrown a game it still shouldnt keep him out of the hall and he didnt throw a game.
@@jodi2847- WRONG. MLB has been very clear regarding betting on baseball while affiliated with the game in a player, manager, or owner and the repercussions if you do. This is the problem with our society today. We want to remove accountability from people who KNOWINGLY break the rules. He was a dead solid lock for the HOF until he chose to violate the primary rule that excludes you from HOF eligibility. He could have just waited until his managerial days were over but he chose not to.
Great doc. I feel like it hasn’t gotten much coverage. Glad you talked about it Dan. Rose is a true product of 1970s America. They don’t make ‘em like that any more 😆 Funny MFer. In many ways, he’s the Charles Barkley of baseball. Politically incorrect. I love him for it 😂 🙏🏼
Seriously. And the other funny thing is that keeping Pete out of the hall keeps him in the media. Otherwise he’d be just another good player from 50 years ago.
As a kid, I loved Pete Rose as a player. Nobody wanted to see him in the Hall of Fame more than me. In a sense, his life reads like a Shakespearean tragedy. Baseball, the thing he loved so much, no longer has any place for him. Pete set so many records; he won so many games. He won three World Championships. Ultimately, the ONLY foe that Pete Rose couldn't defeat was his own appetites. And it was those appetites which drove him from the game. Rose might make the Hall someday, but he will never live to see it. Pete has always been his own worst enemy. He has nobody to blame but himself.
Pete has a sickness, I’d hope he never threw a game to win a bet, but had more insight than the average gambler. Gambling sickens me and destroys lives.
When I was in about 6th grade, he was with the Phillies and I met him at a car dealership where he was signing autographs. He was the biggest asshole I had ever encountered. I'm not sure anyone has ever topped him. I learned a lot that day.
Can both of you guys tell me the stories of why Rose and Schmidt were jerks? Not looking for a fight or argument. I'm genuinely interested in what happened that causes you to say that.
Eric, George Brett, and Reggie Jackson were the biggest A-holes I ever met. I met Rose twice. He was very nice, but I had heard that he could be down right cruel to people.
Does Pete deserve to be in the Hall? Yes. Did he bet on baseball? Also Yes. Did he blow his opportunity(s) of redemption? Yes. A little bit of contrition goes a long way, if only Pete could realize that. It is hard to continue advocating for a guy who keeps treating his opportunities as if they are obstacles. I really want to see Pete in the Hall, but his blamecasting of others for his own choices will likely prevent that from happening... at least in his own lifetime.
@@keithmurray3827 I have mixed feelings on that take, but I see your point. You aren't wrong, but I would like to see it happen during Pete's lifetime... if he could simply accept it with gratitude. Therein lies the dilemma
Spring training, 1984… I was a 10-year-old boy fortunate enough to be in Florida to watch some games. I was wandering around behind the outfield fence, near the players lockers, when suddenly out of the blue came Pete Rose. It was just he and I alone for a moment. I looked up in wonder, and asked him if he could sign my baseball! I kid you not, he put his right hand on my shoulder, gently push me to the side, and without a word kept walking to the field. Never thought much of him after that. True story.
At the old field where the Yankees training facility is? I would go to those games with my Dad, Tarpons and Reds spring training. Free tix on the counter of 7-11
@@JustSomeGuy009you are confusing being old with being a miserable person. Nothing wrong with being old. Pete Rose however is a miserable person who has to resort to selling autographs because he ruined his own legacy.
@@cliffpeebles9705 If you watch the documentary, you will hear him say that he makes a few million per year making appearances and signing stuff. It's not sad at all.
Sorry, but there's one rule in baseball that is in every single clubhouse - no betting on baseball. You break the rule, you pay the consequences. Without consequences, the rules mean nothing. And baseball is nothing if not a game of rules as well as a game of numbers. That's part of what makes the game what it is and so interesting to the true fans of the game. I could care less if Pete Rose is making more money by not being in Cooperstown. Putting him in only diminishes the records of all those who played by the rules. Same goes for Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa. And sorry Dan, but not apologizing is not what makes an athlete great. In fact, I'd say it's unsportsmanlike.
There is literally a sign - printed on the wall - right in front of you when you walk into the clubhouse - it states betting on baseball and you will be banished from the game. I don't know what the right answer is - I certainly get the hypocrisy with all the gambling advertising / partnerships that have been set up. It certainly does not strengthen the case . Baseball is a sport that is desperate for relevance - in my nearly 60 yrs it has dramatically dropped in terms of popularity. When i was a kid Pete was as big of a star as there was in the game. He was always controversial but in his old age he has really become pretty creepy. I respect that he has maintained good relationships with his teammates - that has to count for something but I can also certainly see - Baseball is not really losing a lot by not having Pete as a representative. It is like having a favorite uncle when you are a kid but when you grow up - you realize - actually he was a sleazy lecherous creep - it kind of breaks your heart - but doesn't make you want him around at holidays
I never liked Rose, going all the way back to the early 70s, but I watched it. I thought it was very even handed. My opinion of him did not change and he apparently has not changed.
A hundred years from now they will talk of Pete Rose the hits king and Charlie Hustle and people like you Dan will be forgotten. No one will know your name, no one Dan.
You don’t just bet on wins or losses. How do we know he wasn’t betting on the over/under on runs, homers, stolen bases etc. then as a manger manipulated the lineup.
Great point it’s also this, if he had placed a bet then using relievers or players he may not of which in turn makes it hard to tell if his managing was compromised. One bet ruins it and he knew that
Any manager could be doing that *right now.* Without empirical, conclusive evidence, we just accept that a person is not guilty (which is different than "innocent") of these things. That's kinda how a free society works.
His accomplishments on the field are no doubt HOF worthy. The rule he broke, though, especially at the time, was the sacred rule. The rule was posted in every locker room. There's just no excuse. He simply thought he was above the rules. Classic narcissist.
It was researched and he was caught manipulating games. He saved certain pitchers for games he bet on, and would leave his team out to dry on games he didn’t bet on. He 100% violated the most important part of the game’s integrity - he didn’t try to win every game as a manager because his betting took priority over The Reds to him
Pete Rose signed his name onto the PERMANENTLY INELIGIBLE LIST. No one has ever come off that list. Shoeless Joe Jackson deserves to be in the HOF too. Why don't we talk about Joe Jackson? Let him in!
Joe is way more deserving, especially with how unclear things are with him not being able to read and then playing the best out of everyone for the Sox in that series.
@@NoahMcleany That's a bit of a myth. Look at Joe's boxscore on Game 1. The one they were all in on throwing. As the series went on, guys were getting screwed and then began to try more. Joe took money to throw it. He understood right from wrong. Whether he can read or write doesn't mean anything. The tanking wasn't in writing.
@@NoahMcleany dude, Joe Jackson literally agreed to throw World Series games. Rose bet on himself to win. Bonds/Sosa/McGwire/et al all broke MLB's banned substance rule to get an unfair advantage (i.e. CHEAT), and then denied.
Jackson admitted in two court cases that he took 5,000 dollars and was mad he didn't get the rest of the 20,000 he was promised. With 100+ years passed, everyone involved dead, unless information is found that would clear him without a doubt, MLB is not going to open up the chance for him. Plus, he gets far more attention not being in than if he was inducted.
The player belongs in the hall, for sure. In fact, in that hall, Pete should be in a little room that’s usually reserved for the best of the best, out of ALL the hall of famers…but everything else that comes with Pete rose is a stain on baseball and the HOF.
I remember the day I listened on radio when DP begged Canseco to stop his book about Steroids and keep his mouth shut because America didn't need to know The Truth.
Great athlete whose contribution to the game that can never be erased. He is also a person who made terrible choices. The Hall should never open its door.
Dan hit on it briefly around 5:30 - 5:45, and it’s extremely important. We have to remember how betting worked when Rose was betting. If X pitcher is starting, and Rose bets $1000 with his bookie, where normally he bets $2000, that has massive downstream effects. Why would a manager bet less than usual? What’s wrong? What does he know? Is the pitcher hurt? When Rose didn’t bet, or when he bet an abnormal amount was massively influential. Also, Rose agreed to and signed his lifetime ban. Why sign it if he felt he was innocent, or could at least present an argument to the commissioner? He couldn’t. Baseball cut him a deal. Sign this lifetime ban, because here’s what else we have on you. Here’s the evidence which stays sealed. It baffles me how folks can still defend Rose and try and twist it. I’m not a hater, I have a signed ball and card from him. I’m just older now and am able to realize what a dirtbag he is.
I wish Dan could have elaborated more on Pete's personality being stuck in the late 60s early 70s. I'm not tryin to argue that statement is or isn't true . I I just think it would've been interesting to hear Dan's thoughts on why that is.
Should be in the Hall of Fame. This shit is why I don't watch MLB anymore. Pete wasn't fixing games. Bonds belongs too with Clemens. 90% of the MLB was takin roids since the 70s and they gonna single out the 90s players?
MLB milked the Sosa/McGuire HR race for every last nickel, then acted all high and mighty when the s**t hit the fan. And at the time they knew, there's no question they knew.
Pete Rose is a product of Price Hill. If you're from the area you understand his mindset and you understand the shit he says and the way he talks. Most of us have family members like him.
Native Cincinnatian, die hard Reds fan here. I was at Riverfront for #3,000 and 4,192. I shed a tear upon hearing of his death. He doesn’t belong in the HoF.
great documentary ... watched all 4 episodes the other day. rose should be in the hof. they have draft king and fan duel on billboards at the stadiums now. ;)
The only thing you need to know about compulsive gamblers is they are compulsive liars,of course he bet on the Reds ,as a player and a manager ,nothing is off limits when your a compulsive gambler nothing .
Wasn’t Pete Rose a player/coach in ‘86, his last season? I remember that 1987 baseball card where he’s meeting with the pitcher at the mound & had his first baseman’s mitt on. Technically, that’s when he was becoming a manager. Just saying, maybe he wasn’t betting on baseball all those years when he was a great player, chasing down the biggest record in the game. And “Who do you like?” doesn’t necessarily mean it was for him to gather information so he could bet on a game. I’ve said that to people to strike up a conversation about a game i knew they also were interested in.
I am pretty certain there was ample evidence that he bet / bet on baseball for a long time. I think your speculating on when his playing days ended was correct I think it was 86 . Was managing after that .
Adults can look at someone and recognize their talent in a particular area but also recognize they want nothing to do with them because they're a dreadful person.
Saddest part is how an absolutely GREAT player lost so much respect. Growing up I was NOT a Pete Rose fan . But, as I started playing and seeing what dedication it takes to be a good Baseball player, I saw Pete had that IN SPADES. Fun fact ..... Pete Rose won more games in pro sports than ANY other athlete. The man was a GAMER !
I watched the documentary and learned a few things I was not aware of. I was not aware of the accusations of Pete being involved with underaged girls and drug trafficking. Watching Rose in this documentary I got the sense that he is still not being truthful and was involved in more insidious activities than betting on baseball.
The first time I saw Pete being nterviewed by the batting cage, he has a transistor radio with an ear bud. I was in high school. It was during Spring Training and March Madness and in the middle of a question, he blurts out “you gotta make those free throws”. WOW! I knew he was a good guy.
Non-Cincinnatian, not a Reds fan. I was a child watching Pete Rose play in the 70s and 80s. He 100% belongs in the HoF. "Let he who is free of sin cast the first stone." John 8:7-11
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Pete Rose will never make the HOF - brought to you by DraftKings.
You can probably bet on him getting in on DraftKings, haha.
You make a good point. The mafia don’t like nobody controlling their game unless it’s them
I think he will. But they'll wait until he's dead so he can't enjoy it. MLB is spiteful like that.
Nor should he!
@@JWD1992Yes, money grubbing is absurd. But it's not the same thing.
It amazes me . hold our sports icons to a higher standard than our politicians.
especially Trumpies.... !
@@Thataintnothing can I ask WTF is that supposed to say ...?
Something in Trumpie....?
you idiots have your own language now...?
Baseball players up until 1980’s were seen in such reverence
It’s “Charlie Hustle”
Ppl were enamored by ball players
@@chrisf2471People are just as enamored by politicians today. Pretending they can do no wrong. It's scary and sad.
Right
What a world. Every single radio, TV, internet, phone, tells us how exciting gambling is. All day, every second.
It’s a different world, plus he lied, acknowledged he lied and signed an agreement to be banned. He also lied to fans and sold fake merchandise to them
@@LMDiazBX - You're not paying attention. In every, single, way -- it's the same old World.
@@mattlaeff724 you know the difference between a citizen and a professional gambling on his own sport? He knew it was illegal and unprofessional and against the rules he didn’t care.
@@LMDiazBX That professional is also a citizen. No different than what others are doing now and what Ohtani likely did.
@@LMDiazBX
So did Steve Howe, who kept popping positive for coke, got suspended 7 times, was even banned "for life", and was always allowed back. (Whether you agree with it or not, a rule is a rule, right? Not if you're an unrepentant junkie, apparently.) That speaks way worse for baseball than Pete Rose, who admitted that he screwed up and has a good message for people, "Do not do what I did, ever. I can tell you 100 different ways that it was stupid and screwed up." Rose should only have gotten what he got if he was betting against his own team and throwing games to win at the gambling table. That didn't happen and it's been proven.
Trivia question: How many members of the 2017 Houston Astros were punished for their cheating scandal that the entire team was in on? ZERO. Still think Pete Rose got fair treatment?
It does not matter what you or the HOF says or doesn't say about Pete Rose. He was one of the best players in the history of Baseball. Pete Rose is an imperfect human being, just like you and me. He did the work. He made the sacrifices. Gambler or not, he deserves the credit.
He deserves credit for being a great player. He doesn't deserve to be in the BBHoF. Read the Dowd Report. Educate yourself. Give it a shot.
I went to Cooperstown about nine years ago. Pete didn't have a plaque in the Plaque Gallery but there was a display with Pete's bat and a few other items of his (jersey and glove, I think). He hasn't been inducted but the HOF recognized his accomplishments.
That’s what my brother in law told me, he said also the lifting of the team ban which allowed the Reds to retire his number and induct him into the teams Hall Of Fame will be the biggest compromise they will allow for.
The HOF has plenty of artifacts for Pete, Manny, McGwire, Canseco, Clemens. But won't induct them.
But it's all about that plaque; that's their white whale.
There’s tons of memorabilia of his in the museum. My friend and I have a dumb joke after going to Cooperstown. People say Pete rose isn’t in the hall of fame. Yes he is, he’s all over it.
@@bralph82yeah his stuff is there. He isn’t! And never will be there.
@@alex11361 If Pete would have just bowed down he would be in the HOF, that is BS. Either he sould be or he shouldn't be. Baseball writers are trash!
The personality you describe as Pete's - never apologize, keep going forward - that made him a great player, also made him an addict.
And it made him an aS*hole
but he has apologized, if you mean admitted he made mistakes. If you mean get down on his hands and knees, sobbing, tears flowing, crying to the commissioner, no, that's never happened.
@@ronfowlermusic He's not apologized. He's mitigated his addiction issues for years. There's a difference.
@@joeschmoe2011 he has admitted he made mistakes. But that's not enough for some people.
@@ronfowlermusic In fairness, I'd reword that to say he's admitted the obvious but that's not enough for some people.
You will never take away his 4 thousand hits……..
And his 14,053 at bats! That record will NEVER BE BROKEN!
Give them time. They can take away anything
They tried... when Ichiro "broke" the all time professional hits record... then someone pointed out Pete had several hundred more minor league hits.
No one is trying to. He lied to everyone for 2 decades. I was at his "stage show" and he joked multiple times about betting. As Dan said, he blames everyone else. I was a huge Pete fan, and I nearly had tears in my eyes when he got the single off Eric Show for #4,192. I don't really care if he gets into the HOF or not, but I would never campaign in his behalf for it.
But did he cheat to get those hits? Plenty of evidence said he did. Corked bat
I'm 60yrs old now wow Pete was a killer player remember watching he played hard
Did you watch him have sex with underage girls too?
Brought to you by Draft Kings
Exactly... what a joke.
I loathe the exaggerated emphasis on sports betting, especially mid-broadcast.
Oh the irony
@@steelcitysportsfan1436 It is, isn't it.
@@steelcitysportsfan1436 ..The Ultimate irony....
Charlie Hustle. 😢 one of my childhood idols.
Nellie Fox hit 2 home runs for the White Sox in his 1959 MVP season.
And Phil Rizzuto hit just 7 in his MVP year of 1950.
You lie
FYI Dan- the Harrelson/Rose fight wasn't random. When Joe Morgan was doing commentary on Reds TV years ago, he said that Harrelson did some trash talking against the Reds during the '73 NLCS, and Joe and Pete made a pact that whichever one of them got a shot to take Bud out at second base first would do it, and Pete got the first shot. Harrelson and Rose would later play on the Phillies together and became good friends. They both joked about that scuffle in later years.
I know this: Without Pete Rose, my Phillies wouldn't have won their first World Series championship in 1980.
I also know this: Pete broke a rule that you just can't break, and he agreed to a lifetime ban.
His catch of the ball that popped out of Boone’s glove is still burned in my memory.
Saw Pete Hit 3 Home Runs in one Game against the Mets in NY , He could hit them but didn’t try too as an lead off Man!
Let’s go Phil’s!
@@Thataintnothing, I remember that game. If I'm not mistaken it was a Saturday game of the week back when they were still doing that. Wasn't it the same year as his hitting streak but before the streak started?
@@postal002 Your Correct ,and He said He could hit more but that wasn’t His Job ,He was an Strong Guy !
Great convo Patrick. I could see the pain in your eyes and in your voice as you spoke about arguably one of the greatest players in the history of the game we all love. RIP Pete.
Ichiro won the MVP in 2001 hitting only 8 HRs.
HRs are just a part of modern baseball culture, hitting for AVG takes more talent and creates more wins than HR/ Strikeout hitters.
And
@@julianmichael2791 clearly you dont understand baseball and how the game works.
@@tnpatriot7468He just started watching baseball in 2020 probably
@@julianmichael2791
Sure, because hitting third and cleanup, aren’t usually the best at hitting runs in.
If I were Rose, I wouldn't care anymore. It has been too long. Keep your HOF. Life goes on.
Totally agree.
His big Ego won't let it go. He wants to both ways. He knows he cheated
He’s in Cooperstown every July. Gotta make that dough.
As a Pittsburgh Pirates fan whose heart was broken by the Big Red Machine in 1970 & 1972 ... Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame.
As a Reds fan, let me tell you - 1979 HURT!
Not before bonds 🤌
You don't know the half of it. Some of the really bad things he did haven't come out.
Pete Rose is a narcissist. If he had made a sincere apology decades ago he would be in. But he fundamentally does not believe he did anything wrong
@TELEVISIONARCHIVES I've met him. Not the nicest guy. But as a former coach, he would still be my first pick overall on my Dream Team.
If patrick is allowed on the radio then rose should be in the hall of fame
If only Giamatti had the brilliance to send Pete Rose to a semi pro basketball team until the gambling scandal died down.
LOL, that and lets hear more about Ohtani's betting ... if you think that it was the interpreter's bets you belong in the ID10T club.
Your idiot comment makes no sense. If Pete had just come clean, he would have been eventually reinstated and inducted into the HOF.
Rose has said that Giamatti told him to accept the suspension, do some good deeds, admit what he did, and he would support reinstating him. Unfortunately for Rose, Giamatti died less than a year after the suspension so that was that.
Wrong. But E for effort
This is a Michael Jordan ref … I like this
Contrition is the best and most curative medicine. For a period of 5 years I worked as an expert white collar defense in financial matters. The best defense to avoid jail was contrition.
White collar defense lmao. White collar people don't go to jail buddy unless they screw other white collar people.
Avoid jail? What a frickin' joke. They want you in jail, you're going to jail. And, contrition for what? Is this no longer a free country? Oh wait, nevermind.
It's hard for me to sympathize with Pete. He lied to his teammates about betting. Joe Morgan and Johnny Bench then went to bat for him to get him in the HOF. He denied it until he wrote the book that he admitted it. Joe and Johnny then had nothing to do with him. They would never come back to the HOF if Pete made it in. He's a compulsive liar as well as compulsive gambler. You made your bed...
What? Dude Joe Morgan is dead. Been dead. Plus Pete reconciled with both Johnny & Joe after that book. He still appears at events for the Reds with Johnny and he appeared at events with Joe, until his death, for both the 1975-76 Reds and separately Joe & Tony for the 1983 Phillies. That issue has been resolved.
@@naturallawman2965did they resolve the issue when Rose was having sex with minors? Dudes a scumbag to the core.
Johnny Bench said Pete should never be in the HOF @@naturallawman2965
Did you not watch Part Four?!
He played baseball better than most. That's what his baseball career should be based on. He's done more positive for the game than most. Including those mates in the hof
Baseball now has gambling ads and sponsors, and it is sad that he is not in the Hall of Fame.
Good f'ing point!
@@omni3740But the players can't bet on games.
Irrelevant. That has nothing to do with what happened then. Plus, players still can't gamble.
LOL...No...It's not sad. He's an unapologetic and arrogant prick, and every time he's had a chance in his life to take the obvious high road, he's gone as low as possible. Will never feel bad for him.
@@oaktree1626 I bet you they do. Pun intended
Pete Rose has nobody to blame but himself. He willingly agreed to a lifetime ban, because he knows he committed baseball's cardinal sin.
100%. He never took accountability.
The narcissism & arrogance that spews from this guy...... I got no use for him
True, but when he agreed to the ban it wasn’t an automatic DQ from being in the hall of fame. They changed the rule after he agreed to the ban.
That said, as a native Cincinnatian, I think he should have admitted fault much earlier and been much more honest. But that’s not who he is. He’ll probably be voted in after he dies.
@@dougfromsoanierana Yeah, his agreement with Giamatti allowed him to apply for reinstatement after one year. But Giamatti died and the next commissioner made it clear there was no longer any deal. And then the HOF committee voted to keep him out of the HOF.
@@venalleader2909 false
What’s sad is the MLB now days covers for thier top tier gamblers. They won’t even let him in the hall of fame.
There's not a whole lot of saints in the Hall
it's sad because pete rose is a quintessential cincinnati west-sider. from western hills high school, blue collar family, not the most natural talent, but just worked harder than everyone else. the fact that he went on to win multiple world series titles for the hometown team and set the records he did is storybook. people would be worshipping the ground he walked on. there'd be countless statues around the city had he not ruined his reputation. a lot of people from cincinnati still worship him don't get me wrong, but it was definitely massively dampened. you can tell the people here want their hometown hero to be rehabilitated so badly and I think it really hurts so many people that are from here that he's sort of been taken away from them
Pete Rose won the NL MVP Award in 1973, when he also earned the 1973 NL Batting title, hitting .338 with 230 hits that led BOTH leagues, along with his 5 HR.
To bad he can’t honor the game 🤷♂️
@@burls7117too
Tom Brady won 7 Super Bowls, several league MVP’s, and broke just about every record in the book. But if I polled people in Cincinnati on the streets whether Tom should be BANNED from the NFL, about 99 percent would say yes. I’m not saying defending Pete makes you wrong. I’m saying it makes people Hippocrates.
@@robertclark9 weak
yea that Patrick guy sure glossed over all the other accomplishments that won rose the MVP
Dan, I've enjoyed your show for two decades now and appreciate your objectivity. Much love to you, many of us have enjoyed you for years!
Dan, I could listen to you talk about Pete and the Reds all day my man
Dan Patrick & Bob Ley! Sportscenter gold! Before school every morning!
That is when Sportscenter actually was THE channel to go to !
Pete will sign a dinner roll if u pay him
😂
If you wouldn't, that shows you lack intelligence. We all know you do the same. The problem is nobody is asking you to sign anything.
And others wouldn’t ? Many just won’t sign and say go away
You must be very proud of your signature to turn down money for an autograph. I'll draw you a self portrait on a dinner roll, if you want to pay me for it.
Pete doesn't know anything but baseball as long as he can make enough signing stuff he is ok
Ichiro won MVP in a Season where he hit 8 HRs... Might be more of a shock considering the importance of the HR more recently..
Dan needs a few more nicknacks on his set.
I wish he'd get rid of all the piggy patches.
@@soliduke yeah, I hate when sports and sports entertainment panders to law-enforcement and the military.
I love listening to Dan talk about old school baseball
I think Dan is mostly full of himself. Never did like him.
@@Hawkeye517 now compare him to Olbermann ...
The Big Red Machine. What a great time to live down the road in Dayton and be a Reds fan.
My cousin lived in Springboro. Wow! What a great area. Great people.
Listening to Kerrigan and Christopher on WTUE. And they both made it to ESPN.
@@rocketmcgrain7947 Those were the days.
Love this take. He’s part of baseballs story - and every story doesn’t have to be perfect. It would make the hall better.
As a kid he was the only player that I can remember wanting to watch on TV. You can't tell the story of baseball without Pete Rose. I think he definitely belongs in the HOF.
Comments from people lauding Pete tell me more about their character than Pete's.
@@martinsundland7614 people who still hold Pete Rose in contempt for his gambling while today's sports organizations are literally signing joint venture multimillion dollar deals with gambling companies are completely ridiculous. Let's all be tolerant of the rampant drug abuse which we know for a fact directly impacted the games but don't you dare place bets. Oh and pay no attention to the Fan Duel and Draft Kings commercials on every 20 minutes and plastered around every stadium. Give me a freaking break. Careful when walking around your hypocrisy is hanging out.
@@waywardwest Sure - make up your own set of "rules" if they can be called that. We should all belong to an organization and make up our own set of standards at the same time. Just because someone was a good athlete he shouldn't be given a pass because he won at all costs. The guy's a narcissistic jerk, just like the 45th president.
@@waywardwest There is no hypocrisy. No sports organization is promoting gambling by players or coaches. That is still against the rules. Gambling is for fans. Fans can't affect the outcome of games.
If you could freeze that time frame, then yes. But then he started with that other thing:
There is giant picture of Pete Rose as all time hit leader in Hall of Fame right now been there for years.
In my mind, it's really simple....He signed a document agreeing to the LIFETIME ban. Again, LIFETIME BAN.
Can’t argue with you there, even though he’s been punished enough.
You’re 100% right tho.
And thousands of musical artists signed their lives away to record labels. Those record labels and contracts must be just! Astro's players and coaches only got a year suspension for cheating in the World Series and playoffs. The all-time hit leader must be kept out of hall of fame because he bet on his team as a coach. Now the league is fully in bed with gambling. Absurd logic.
Yes, but when he signed that agreement in 1989, there was no rule in the Hall of Fame against banned players. They changed the rule in 1991 that any banned player cannot be on a Hall of Fame ballot. Coincidentally Rose was eligible in 1992. Even Joe Jackson was on the ballot in 1939.
Signed why he sign?
Hell yeah!
Keep that poop stain banned!
I’m 56, and the only person that I feel that can compare to Pete’s playing style and on the field domination was Larry Bird. Both players weren’t the most talented, but yet we’re extremely dominant because of their shear will to win.
Absolutely the scouting report on Pete Rose was cant field cant hit can’t throw can’t run…he had the it factor like Bird
Bird was one of the most talented basketball players of all time, he just wasn't the most athletic.
Bird was insanely talented.
There's is no one alive who saw Larry play who did not recognize that he was one of the most multi-talented basketball players ever ...
You must be smoking glue sticks to make such a ridiculous claim about Bird.
Altuve is today's version of Pete Rose, with more power. And he also was part of a scandal, so there's that.
Paul Hornung was a degenerate gambler too. Hornung was interviewed on a Sunday morning sports show and when asked if he had quit gambling he said he hadn't gambled for months. A guy in my group I hung around with said "I just played poker with Hornung last weekend"
If Pete had stuck to poker he'd be in the Hall of Fame.
Pete could’ve still gotten into the hall as a degenerate poker player
Pete was one of my favorite players growing up! Hope he gets in the hall one day.
He should not be allowed to see himself in the HOF. Pete Rose should be in the HOF the day after he passes away.
That would be today, 10/1/24. Unfortunately, there are no festivities scheduled for Cooperstown today.
RIP Charlie Hustle 1941-2024.
Pete Rose has a great personality. I could listen to him talk baseball all day.
Pete Rose was a great player. I grew up watching him, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, Tony Perez, and Sparky Anderson and, for my money, the Big Red Machine was the most entertaining baseball team ever. When I think of them, I can see Pete's exaggerated batting stance, Perez's dough-kneading bat grip, Morgan's arm flap, Bench throwing runners out, and Anderson skipping over the white lines. Those teams, as well as the Phillies team of 1980, showed Pete's greatness. And Pete had great teammates in Philly like Mike Schmidt, Bake McBride, and Bob Boone.
What PR did put a taint on the big red machine the only national League team to win back to back world series over the last 100 years. Like Roger Clements and Barry Bonds he doesn't deserve to be in the HoF.
The Reds were dynamic, but they were also called a “machine” for a reason. They were corporate America’s dream team: button down, short hair, boring uniforms, and playing in a cookie cutter stadium with artificial turf. To non-Red fans they were like the Evil Empire in Star Wars. The most colorful and controversial and entertaining team of that period was thee Oakland A’s. The A’s featured mustaches, incredibly colorful uniforms, the best nicknames in the sport (Catfish, Blue Moon, Campy, etc), the most charismatic and fascinating player in the game (Reggie), a genius control freak of an owner who made as many headlines as his players but was as innovative and nutty as Bill Veeck, constant fights and drama amongst teammates, and a flair for the dramatic like no other team.
I grew up watching Pete Rose play baseball. I have never seen anybody play as hard as him. He’s in my Hall of Fame.
I don’t care what the commissioner’s office says. Pete Rose belongs in the Hall Of Fame for what he did as a player.
So in other words, betting on baseball should just be allowed in the organization. Why not just say that? Because that's what that means.
@@jodi2847 what he did as a player and what he did as a manager was two different things. He has memorabilia in the hall from when he was a player. If Pete doesn’t belong in the hall, neither does any of his belongings. Seems like a double standard. The commissioner violated their agreement as soon as it was signed. To keep Pete out now is just vindictive. He has been punished long enough. Get over yourself.
@@jodi2847 Where does it stop> Steroids? Beating your wife? Abusive drinking? Abusing fans? Had he thrown a game it still shouldnt keep him out of the hall and he didnt throw a game.
@@jodi2847- WRONG. MLB has been very clear regarding betting on baseball while affiliated with the game in a player, manager, or owner and the repercussions if you do. This is the problem with our society today. We want to remove accountability from people who KNOWINGLY break the rules. He was a dead solid lock for the HOF until he chose to violate the primary rule that excludes you from HOF eligibility. He could have just waited until his managerial days were over but he chose not to.
Mickey Cochrane was the last player prior to Pete Rose to win an MVP with 5 or fewer home runs as a position player...he hit 2 in 1934.
Nellie Fox and Dick Groat, 1959 and 1960. Both had 2 HRs, both won MVP.
Pete has nobody’s to blame but himself.
Great doc. I feel like it hasn’t gotten much coverage. Glad you talked about it Dan. Rose is a true product of 1970s America. They don’t make ‘em like that any more 😆 Funny MFer. In many ways, he’s the Charles Barkley of baseball. Politically incorrect. I love him for it 😂 🙏🏼
Nobody wanted their hair cut like Pete had.
Jimmy Conners.
Nicholas Bradford ( Eight is enough)
@@tomdallas3690 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@anthonymarks8684Twiggy from Buck Rogers!
Everybody wanted that do!
All these old men talk about the integrity of the game then praise Pete Rose in the same breath it’s hilarious
You to
Seriously. And the other funny thing is that keeping Pete out of the hall keeps him in the media. Otherwise he’d be just another good player from 50 years ago.
if you separate the player from the man its easy , he was a great player but an awful person
As a kid, I loved Pete Rose as a player. Nobody wanted to see him in the Hall of Fame more than me. In a sense, his life reads like a Shakespearean tragedy.
Baseball, the thing he loved so much, no longer has any place for him.
Pete set so many records; he won so many games. He won three World Championships. Ultimately, the ONLY foe that Pete Rose couldn't defeat was his own appetites. And it was those appetites which drove him from the game.
Rose might make the Hall someday, but he will never live to see it. Pete has always been his own worst enemy. He has nobody to blame but himself.
Pete has a sickness, I’d hope he never threw a game to win a bet, but had more insight than the average gambler. Gambling sickens me and destroys lives.
Where did you get the Bold Tigers stein?? What's the connection?
When I was in about 6th grade, he was with the Phillies and I met him at a car dealership where he was signing autographs. He was the biggest asshole I had ever encountered. I'm not sure anyone has ever topped him. I learned a lot that day.
Its usually a cruel lesson to meet your heroes .
Be glad you never met Mike Schmidt.
Can both of you guys tell me the stories of why Rose and Schmidt were jerks? Not looking for a fight or argument. I'm genuinely interested in what happened that causes you to say that.
@@johnmoore6853because they were both 3rd baseman. 😂
Eric, George Brett, and Reggie Jackson were the biggest A-holes I ever met. I met Rose twice. He was very nice, but I had heard that he could be down right cruel to people.
Where is this series streaming?
Pete Rose, should be in the hall of fame but with an asterisk, he did so much for the game of baseball!
Where is this new documentary showing?
HBO
Pete is the HIT KING
Does Pete deserve to be in the Hall? Yes. Did he bet on baseball? Also Yes. Did he blow his opportunity(s) of redemption? Yes. A little bit of contrition goes a long way, if only Pete could realize that. It is hard to continue advocating for a guy who keeps treating his opportunities as if they are obstacles. I really want to see Pete in the Hall, but his blamecasting of others for his own choices will likely prevent that from happening... at least in his own lifetime.
After he dies, let him in. He shouldn't be alliowed to enjoy the merits of the HOF while alive, all things considered.
@@keithmurray3827 I have mixed feelings on that take, but I see your point. You aren't wrong, but I would like to see it happen during Pete's lifetime... if he could simply accept it with gratitude. Therein lies the dilemma
people wanted their hair cut like Pete's?!?!?
Said nobody ever😂
@@BrokeMoeHowardUHFI've seen a few of his haircuts - great player yes, the hair style I want, no!
@@BrokeMoeHowardUHFmark Davis maybe
Yeah, give me the Moe..🙄
Saw one of his haircuts - it was Herman Munster inspired.
Spring training, 1984… I was a 10-year-old boy fortunate enough to be in Florida to watch some games. I was wandering around behind the outfield fence, near the players lockers, when suddenly out of the blue came Pete Rose. It was just he and I alone for a moment. I looked up in wonder, and asked him if he could sign my baseball! I kid you not, he put his right hand on my shoulder, gently push me to the side, and without a word kept walking to the field. Never thought much of him after that. True story.
At the old field where the Yankees training facility is? I would go to those games with my Dad, Tarpons and Reds spring training. Free tix on the counter of 7-11
I’ve seen Pete several times in a casino in Las Vegas. Not gambling but selling his autograph. He looks miserable.
Not everyone looks like some Hollywood actor or something. Dudes also pretty old now...
Kind of like one of those old black and white boxing movies where the champ winds up doing a menial job. It is sad.
wow
@@JustSomeGuy009you are confusing being old with being a miserable person. Nothing wrong with being old. Pete Rose however is a miserable person who has to resort to selling autographs because he ruined his own legacy.
@@cliffpeebles9705 If you watch the documentary, you will hear him say that he makes a few million per year making appearances and signing stuff. It's not sad at all.
Say whatever you want about him….Pete Rose was a better baseball player than many
Sorry, but there's one rule in baseball that is in every single clubhouse - no betting on baseball. You break the rule, you pay the consequences. Without consequences, the rules mean nothing. And baseball is nothing if not a game of rules as well as a game of numbers. That's part of what makes the game what it is and so interesting to the true fans of the game. I could care less if Pete Rose is making more money by not being in Cooperstown. Putting him in only diminishes the records of all those who played by the rules. Same goes for Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa. And sorry Dan, but not apologizing is not what makes an athlete great. In fact, I'd say it's unsportsmanlike.
There is literally a sign - printed on the wall - right in front of you when you walk into the clubhouse - it states betting on baseball and you will be banished from the game. I don't know what the right answer is - I certainly get the hypocrisy with all the gambling advertising / partnerships that have been set up. It certainly does not strengthen the case . Baseball is a sport that is desperate for relevance - in my nearly 60 yrs it has dramatically dropped in terms of popularity. When i was a kid Pete was as big of a star as there was in the game. He was always controversial but in his old age he has really become pretty creepy. I respect that he has maintained good relationships with his teammates - that has to count for something but I can also certainly see - Baseball is not really losing a lot by not having Pete as a representative. It is like having a favorite uncle when you are a kid but when you grow up - you realize - actually he was a sleazy lecherous creep - it kind of breaks your heart - but doesn't make you want him around at holidays
I am torn about watching it but interested in your thoughts on it dan
I never liked Rose, going all the way back to the early 70s, but I watched it. I thought it was very even handed. My opinion of him did not change and he apparently has not changed.
A hundred years from now they will talk of Pete Rose the hits king and Charlie Hustle and people like you Dan will be forgotten. No one will know your name, no one Dan.
They'll still be talking about who was poorly depicted,Ruth,Mays,Mantle,DiMaggio,Berra all way before Rose.
Dan is just a messenger you shot!!!
@@newagain9964 As of January 2024, Pete Rose is the Major League Baseball (MLB) all-time hits leader with 4,256 hits:
@@newagain9964 As of January 2024, Pete Rose is the Major League Baseball (MLB) all-time hits leader with 4,256 hits:
No one played the game harder than Pete Rose, the steroids and the astros cheating were just as bad or worse
You don’t just bet on wins or losses. How do we know he wasn’t betting on the over/under on runs, homers, stolen bases etc. then as a manger manipulated the lineup.
Great point it’s also this, if he had placed a bet then using relievers or players he may not of which in turn makes it hard to tell if his managing was compromised. One bet ruins it and he knew that
@@kevy2times313 EXACTLY! He could have had bet on Mike Schmidt hitting 2 homers. Then put in a bum ass reliever to give up a meaningless home run.
Any manager could be doing that *right now.*
Without empirical, conclusive evidence, we just accept that a person is not guilty (which is different than "innocent") of these things. That's kinda how a free society works.
Because he didn’t - DUH
I don't think they had over/unders on runs back then, or on particular stats like they do now.
My guy Dan Patrick.. just saw him in a movie with Adam Sandler yesterday and here he is again.
His accomplishments on the field are no doubt HOF worthy. The rule he broke, though, especially at the time, was the sacred rule. The rule was posted in every locker room. There's just no excuse. He simply thought he was above the rules. Classic narcissist.
It was researched and he was caught manipulating games. He saved certain pitchers for games he bet on, and would leave his team out to dry on games he didn’t bet on. He 100% violated the most important part of the game’s integrity - he didn’t try to win every game as a manager because his betting took priority over The Reds to him
"sacred" lmao
Anyone that hung at the Palms Sports Book when it first open. Never saw Pete Rose place a bet but he was in the front row almost every day.
Pete Rose signed his name onto the PERMANENTLY INELIGIBLE LIST. No one has ever come off that list. Shoeless Joe Jackson deserves to be in the HOF too. Why don't we talk about Joe Jackson? Let him in!
Joe is way more deserving, especially with how unclear things are with him not being able to read and then playing the best out of everyone for the Sox in that series.
And then there's the Steroid Gang.
@@NoahMcleany That's a bit of a myth. Look at Joe's boxscore on Game 1. The one they were all in on throwing. As the series went on, guys were getting screwed and then began to try more. Joe took money to throw it. He understood right from wrong. Whether he can read or write doesn't mean anything. The tanking wasn't in writing.
@@NoahMcleany dude, Joe Jackson literally agreed to throw World Series games. Rose bet on himself to win. Bonds/Sosa/McGwire/et al all broke MLB's banned substance rule to get an unfair advantage (i.e. CHEAT), and then denied.
Jackson admitted in two court cases that he took 5,000 dollars and was mad he didn't get the rest of the 20,000 he was promised. With 100+ years passed, everyone involved dead, unless information is found that would clear him without a doubt, MLB is not going to open up the chance for him. Plus, he gets far more attention not being in than if he was inducted.
The player belongs in the hall, for sure. In fact, in that hall, Pete should be in a little room that’s usually reserved for the best of the best, out of ALL the hall of famers…but everything else that comes with Pete rose is a stain on baseball and the HOF.
My dad's favorite player. Shame that he won't see Pete in the HOF before he dies. Pete changed the game.
He was a great singles hitter and he played hard. He didn't change jack squat.
@@MarkMay-cr6bv I see the same kind of comments about Wilt's effect on basketball...shows a lack of perspective for those that weren't there.
Dan is the undisputed goat IMO
I remember the day I listened on radio when DP begged Canseco to stop his book about Steroids and keep his mouth shut because America didn't need to know The Truth.
Great athlete whose contribution to the game that can never be erased. He is also a person who made terrible choices. The Hall should never open its door.
But racists are ok?
Pete put more wood on the ball than anyone who ever played the game. To me it will never be the Hall of Fame without Pete Rose in it.
It was the HOF before Pete, and it is without Pete, and will be after Pete is forgotten. Same for the cheating steroid users, and the cheating Astros.
Oh give me a break. No one ever placed more bets as a Manager either. Baseball owes him squat.
@@croaker4747 it's not baseball that puts Rose in the HOF. It's up to the HOF to enshrine him. It's up to Baseball to reinstate him.
@@johnts1 Good point.
@@croaker4747 Fact remains, 4256 hits.
Dan hit on it briefly around 5:30 - 5:45, and it’s extremely important.
We have to remember how betting worked when Rose was betting.
If X pitcher is starting, and Rose bets $1000 with his bookie, where normally he bets $2000, that has massive downstream effects. Why would a manager bet less than usual? What’s wrong? What does he know? Is the pitcher hurt?
When Rose didn’t bet, or when he bet an abnormal amount was massively influential.
Also, Rose agreed to and signed his lifetime ban. Why sign it if he felt he was innocent, or could at least present an argument to the commissioner? He couldn’t.
Baseball cut him a deal. Sign this lifetime ban, because here’s what else we have on you. Here’s the evidence which stays sealed.
It baffles me how folks can still defend Rose and try and twist it.
I’m not a hater, I have a signed ball and card from him.
I’m just older now and am able to realize what a dirtbag he is.
I wish Dan could have elaborated more on Pete's personality being stuck in the late 60s early 70s. I'm not tryin to argue that statement is or isn't true . I I just think it would've been interesting to hear Dan's thoughts on why that is.
Should be in the Hall of Fame. This shit is why I don't watch MLB anymore. Pete wasn't fixing games. Bonds belongs too with Clemens. 90% of the MLB was takin roids since the 70s and they gonna single out the 90s players?
Pete was fixing games. He would assign pitchers to different games depending on how much he bet
MLB milked the Sosa/McGuire HR race for every last nickel, then acted all high and mighty when the s**t hit the fan. And at the time they knew, there's no question they knew.
never bonds ! hank aaron is the true homerun king
This may be your award winning segment right here.
Pete Rose is a product of Price Hill. If you're from the area you understand his mindset and you understand the shit he says and the way he talks. Most of us have family members like him.
Pete's from Sayler Park on the river, but close enough.
@davidmiller3288 im almost certain he's from the price hill area. My Aunt Annie and him went to west high together
Native Cincinnatian, die hard Reds fan here. I was at Riverfront for #3,000 and 4,192. I shed a tear upon hearing of his death.
He doesn’t belong in the HoF.
Three people that Baseball should put in the Hall: Shoeless Joe, Charlie Hustle and Jim Creighton.
Joe Jackson, sure. Rose, never. "Indian" Bob Johnson is far more deserving anyway.
Definitely
I always love hearing about WWF legend Pete Rose
Dan has covered every major event since the invention of time. Just ask him, and he'll tell you.
Except Wilt Chamberlain.
He’s been with major media outlets forever, stop being a hater.
great documentary ... watched all 4 episodes the other day. rose should be in the hof. they have draft king and fan duel on billboards at the stadiums now. ;)
The only thing you need to know about compulsive gamblers is they are compulsive liars,of course he bet on the Reds ,as a player and a manager ,nothing is off limits when your a compulsive gambler nothing .
He was DEFINITELY in a position to bet against his own team and hence his lifetime ban.
Addicts of anything need that next dopamine hit . It’s hard to get off that high .
Wasn’t Pete Rose a player/coach in ‘86, his last season? I remember that 1987 baseball card where he’s meeting with the pitcher at the mound & had his first baseman’s mitt on. Technically, that’s when he was becoming a manager. Just saying, maybe he wasn’t betting on baseball all those years when he was a great player, chasing down the biggest record in the game. And “Who do you like?” doesn’t necessarily mean it was for him to gather information so he could bet on a game. I’ve said that to people to strike up a conversation about a game i knew they also were interested in.
I am pretty certain there was ample evidence that he bet / bet on baseball for a long time. I think your speculating on when his playing days ended was correct I think it was 86 . Was managing after that .
Adults can look at someone and recognize their talent in a particular area but also recognize they want nothing to do with them because they're a dreadful person.
Saddest part is how an absolutely GREAT player lost so much respect.
Growing up I was NOT a Pete Rose fan . But, as I started playing and seeing what dedication it takes to be a good Baseball player, I saw Pete had that IN SPADES.
Fun fact ..... Pete Rose won more games in pro sports than ANY other athlete. The man was a GAMER !
I’ll save my empathy for the underage girls that he took advantage of.
24 isn't underage
@@thebeasters 14-16 is. Might wanna read up.
@@writerman7038 I find left to right easier.
Hes admitted to having an affair with someone he thought was 16. The woman in question said she was younger than that.@thebeasters
@@thebeastersHe admitted to sleeping with someone he thought was 16. And very likely she was younger.
I loved Charlie Hustle being a kid who saw all the Big Red Machine championships. It's a shame Pete didn't deal with his addiction.
Sad is Dan Patrick still trying to do a show
I watched the documentary and learned a few things I was not aware of. I was not aware of the accusations of Pete being involved with underaged girls and drug trafficking. Watching Rose in this documentary I got the sense that he is still not being truthful and was involved in more insidious activities than betting on baseball.
Dan has spent his life being pragmatic, sensible, and balanced. Here's the Walter Cronkite of sports commentary, no question about it.
The first time I saw Pete being nterviewed by the batting cage, he has a transistor radio with an ear bud. I was in high school. It was during Spring Training and March Madness and in the middle of a question, he blurts out “you gotta make those free throws”. WOW! I knew he was a good guy.
Dan not wanting to hang with Rose or Taylor sounded very self righteous
He's right
Who would want to hang with Dan? He would be staring 8n to a mirror the whole time you were with him.
He is friends with Keith Olbermann so what does that tell you.
Dan's better than them
I agree . He sounded like an unforgiving haughty person
Non-Cincinnatian, not a Reds fan. I was a child watching Pete Rose play in the 70s and 80s. He 100% belongs in the HoF. "Let he who is free of sin cast the first stone." John 8:7-11