Hopefully it's not *too* heretical of me to show off some of the tips 'n tricks for beating Chaos Daemons, but with the recent dataslate I figured now would be the perfect time to get out a tactica for all the players out there who are either unfamiliar with or struggle vs Daemons. I'm thinking I might turn this into a "how to beat..." series for each army, so let me know if that's something you guys would be interested in & what other armies you'd like to see covered first if so! Also! Feel free to share any tips of your own for when taking on Daemons, the more info we get out there the better guys!!
As someone who plays Chaos Knights, what do you think about adding a War Dogs Brigand for some shooting? I happen to own a couple of those (because they look awesome) but not as many greater demons or a Soul Grinder.
I've considered it, even recently, but at the end of the day I think it's suboptimal vs just more Daemons. Not *bad* mind you but it doesn't benefit from any of your army rules / I'm really not so sold on the 2-shot Melta (tho obv BS2 + the other guns help make up for that). I do think if you don't have enough Greater Daemons or Soul Grinders to really fill out your list it's usable but preferably you'd bring something else along instead. So yeah not bad but not fantastic either, imho! Heck tbh Karnivores might be better with their 14" move but Daemons already have vicious melee so it's debatable Edit: if you did bring some, because yes A. they look awesome & B. Nothing is ever set in stone so maybe it is worth it for your style, I'd prolly just bring 1-2 personally
I think I learned more about how to PLAY daemons then how to beat them lmao Fantastic video as always Archon! I'd love to see a tactica on how to beat Orks at some point btw
Thank you! As a newer deamons player (picked them up in January) knowing how your army can be countered is great to know. I love the update and excited to get more big models on the table.
Glad you got some good tips from it man! Its funny after recording this I realized it probably had just as much info for countering as playing them hah. The dataslate was fantastic & not in an "oh they made us OP" kind of way so I'm excited to start playing them more too
Love it! "We're a melee army unless we have a game plan and do a lot of shooting" good description of most armies eh? Love the video, always entertaining bro
Heh well Daemons are mainly a melee army but you *can* run them ranged, not that I'd really recommend it 😜 Prolly could've said it better though lol - appreciate the comment man!
Glad it helped! Yeah Daemons can be a PITA to deal with sometimes. I just had a game earlier tonight where I ended up wiping out 3 Hammerheads + a Riptide in a single turn & basically won the game right there hah. Gotta screen that backline, or else!
Fantastic videos! Just found your channel and as a relatively new player to 40K (started late 9th and only have a handful of games under my belt in 10th) and considering getting some daemons as another army this has been a huuuge help with your videos! Quick question though as I haven't seen it clearly defined; does a Bloodthirster get the benefits of its' own auras? Wondering this for the +1 to Hit aura and adding the enhancement to him.
That's awesome to hear these videos were helpful for ya, glad I could influence you towards Chaos mwhaha 😜 as for your question, yup! BT would indeed benefit from his own auras, both the Shadow & the +1tH - granted the only time that one would help is when he's on his damaged profile (1-6 wounds) as otw he hits on 2's already
I think it's a good combo, I used it the other night to good success. They double as drop pods for each other / give you the double whammy if you come in behind your opponent (or wherever). I'd say Khorne is hard to over commit to, he's easily the best god & even mono lists have won GTs. That said I usually bring the LoC with them too :P My standard for GDs, lately, is Skarbrand, BT, LoC & GUO. From there the rest of the list gets changed up however :)
This was SUCH a great video! Was so useful as a daemon player. Won’t be showing my friends 😂. But was so good. Keep the content coming. Your channel is my favourite daemon channel by far!!
I am stoked for this. For me, I want to play my EC as Dread Talons (minimal investment of time and zero for money). My NightLords I am building and planning for Deceptors detachment, I think it seems very fluffy as
Thanks! I actually have a video all about Fight Phase tactics that goes into the specifically if you want to check it out. The easiest way is to have a sacrificial unit that you throw in first -> get as many models as possible into b2b but leave a small gap for a 2nd squad to get within 1" of your target. They'll be stuck with the first squad so the 2nd will have free reign. The other way is to charge a diff. enemy unit next to their fight first & use a MW ability to clear the screen then pile into the FF one (FF is checked at the very start of the Fight Phase. If no one's in engagement range then they basically lose the ability the rest of the turn) Here's the vid if you ever want to check it out though: ruclips.net/video/CWZTQ44Agag/видео.htmlsi=7HhjO4g-rnKcqjom
Awesome video! Just wanted to ask for some tips as someone relatively new to 40k; I started off playing imperial knights because I heard they are a pretty cheap army to collect and they look super cool. I'm starting to go to a couple of casual tournaments at my local game store now and am planning on attending the GT that'll be held there soon as well! What would you suggest to help play versus chaos demons as a imperial knights? Most of your suggestions here about feeding the big demons chaff or just screening them out don't really work for knights; the cheapest thing I have is my armigers and each one is a hefty chunk of points. On top of that, there isn't many ways to spam a whole ton of low STR or AP 0/-1 shots into demons just to out-dice their saves; pretty much every knight has low dice count and high AP and damage, which means a lot of times a huge amount of damage is just mitigated through invuls then FNPs.
Thanks for comment man, I LOVE helping newer players & you happen to have perfect timing; I just fought some Chaos Knights earlier today & noticed a bunch of mistakes they made throughout that basically handed me the game First of all, your Armigers have crazy good OC so use that to your advantage to stop me from taking Primaries. My GDs only have 5oc vs your 8 & you should be able to just shoot off any smaller squads helping out my GDs. On the flip side, be very careful not to throw them away for a single turns worth of denial because I'll just make it all up on the clapback. I think in your case, target priority is going to be huge. Where my opponent really messed up today was hyper focusing on my big guys + not using any form of move blocking to keep me from getting where I wanted. Obv it depends on the list / board state, but try to take out my scoring ASAP so I'm forced to use big guys for actions. Having to devote a ~300pt model to gaining 2CP hurts!! Still shoot Melta at big guys but all your other guns should almost always focus something smaller (Flesh Hounds, Screamers, etc) Be aware we're prolly going to try to move block you T1 so just be prepared for it. If/when that happens, (Nurglings, Screamers or Seekers most likely) shoot them a LITTLE BIT so only a base or 2 is left then charge them to gain back the lost movement. That said, don't let me get easy charges on your key units. You might have to feed me an Armiger to do this but if it protects 2 other Armigers behind him, or a Questoris, it's prolly worth it I'd cram in some cheap allies if I were you as well. If you don't I'm going to DS behind you with a Bloodthirster + Skarbrand & wreck literally any unit I want as you won't even have armor saves vs them. A cheap squad (or 3!) if Voidsman can be worth their weight in gold even if it's simply to stand in your DZ & screen, or better yet run into no man's land & screen your Armigers Be aware, IK are heavily favored in that match up so don't be too afraid. Just be smart. Priorities should be scoring > movement / blocking > killing, in that order. Obv don't forget to do actions every single turn either, it's not worth giving up CP to kill in most cases Try not to spread yourself out too much either. A lot of times it better to just focus down 2 objectives & cede the last one Hope that helps man & feel free to ask away if you have any other questions 😎
What do you think about Bloodthirster after update? Feels like an auto include now. I know you briefly touched on them at the end of the video. Love your video!
He's definitely 'up there' now. I think Skarbrand still edges him out but really you can't go wrong with either of them łot better yet, both!). I've been using them as a duo a lot lately & he makes a great drop pod for Skarbrand + acts as a 2nd wave or distraction afterward. Dude is just as killy when you give him the Enhancement as well. x9 d6+2d attacks ain't no joke 😜 So yeah I like him a lot now!
It's funny, technically we have a lot of regen but they're all conditional :( Kairos, Tormentbringer, Skulltaker & Epidemius - but all of them have hoops to jump through 😜
If it's your turn you'd pick the sequencing, if it's your opponents turn technically they'd pick the order 😎 That applies to any "simultaneous" rules to my knowledge
Hmmm, I hopped on UnitCrunch & the results were interesting: Angron attacking, with his rr hits aura enabled, will do 14D on average with only a 24% chance of killing Skarbrand in one round for a 51% points efficiency Skarbrand on the other hand will do 12D on average with a 40% chance of killing Angron in a single go for 102% points efficiency So... looks like Skarbrand wins this one pretty handily!
Lol, he's still decent I just think for 325pt there's a lot of other options that are arguably better 😜 But yes you'll most def see Belakor in a lot of lists, for good reason!
I appreciate it. I think people are misunderstanding the ruling for Belakor. But you have to admit....being within 18" inches in charge range or that anti tank range for a lord of change is a massive risk. Need that anti vehicle, and many armies don't have anti monster or daemon to even deal with it reliably enough to make it a good decision. It's that risk for a massive tradeoff that is a big turn off for fun, because then players both need to expend parge portions of their army for a brawl that Belakor forces and in which the daemons are tailored for. Even then they can change their positions at the smallest whim which is a huge problem. I guess my issue is I cannot devote both brawling into potentially 2 greater daemons and still cover board presence enough to make it where I feel comfortable fighting daemons. Just the other day I got into a 2v2. My Null Maidens/my partners' deathwatch(1st time space marines) vs SoB/Imp Knights. It was a slaughterfest because we hid from the big dudes, played primary and secondary only, took kills when we could, primary mission was "Purge the Foe". So I know I'm not that bad of a pilot. But my army choices are....well I like using harder to pilot armies and making them work, treating them like a puzzles to solve for myself. Which is my own handicap to make me improve, but dang...my refusal to use optimal pieces bites me hard here when I do face optimal pieces and lists.
Honest question: What else is undercosted aside from a GUO with that enhancement? It's one of my favorite parts of Daemons, nothing is roflstomp OP (imho!)
Both GuO and rottigus were undercosted even before the change to shadow but for the most part they’re pretty honest yeah. The only other one you could stretch into a nerf would be regular keepers but most datasheets y’all got are pretty fair and honest. No points increase to match the MASSIVE buff to greater daemons just feels like an oversight in the few games against them I’ve done
@@doofus151 Thing is, the greaters themselves are only "buffed" if you take more little dudes to use the auras. Which means less greater daemons and more list variety. It makes them better and at the same time less spammable
@@chashtag2336 And reduces the 100% need for Belakor for the ability to do a 9" then 6" deep strike. And gives some more incentive to theme your demons by god... even if the Khorne synergies are still stronger than others.
Hopefully it's not *too* heretical of me to show off some of the tips 'n tricks for beating Chaos Daemons, but with the recent dataslate I figured now would be the perfect time to get out a tactica for all the players out there who are either unfamiliar with or struggle vs Daemons. I'm thinking I might turn this into a "how to beat..." series for each army, so let me know if that's something you guys would be interested in & what other armies you'd like to see covered first if so!
Also! Feel free to share any tips of your own for when taking on Daemons, the more info we get out there the better guys!!
I'm going through chaos video withdrawl and I blame you 😂.
@keyanklupacs6333 lmao, well I should have another one up later tonight so keep your eyes out 😜
As someone who plays Chaos Knights, what do you think about adding a War Dogs Brigand for some shooting?
I happen to own a couple of those (because they look awesome) but not as many greater demons or a Soul Grinder.
I've considered it, even recently, but at the end of the day I think it's suboptimal vs just more Daemons. Not *bad* mind you but it doesn't benefit from any of your army rules / I'm really not so sold on the 2-shot Melta (tho obv BS2 + the other guns help make up for that). I do think if you don't have enough Greater Daemons or Soul Grinders to really fill out your list it's usable but preferably you'd bring something else along instead. So yeah not bad but not fantastic either, imho! Heck tbh Karnivores might be better with their 14" move but Daemons already have vicious melee so it's debatable
Edit: if you did bring some, because yes A. they look awesome & B. Nothing is ever set in stone so maybe it is worth it for your style, I'd prolly just bring 1-2 personally
@@fatarchon I do have Burning Chariots so those may be the next best thing, especially when hanging around near the LoC.
I think I learned more about how to PLAY daemons then how to beat them lmao
Fantastic video as always Archon! I'd love to see a tactica on how to beat Orks at some point btw
Thank you! As a newer deamons player (picked them up in January) knowing how your army can be countered is great to know. I love the update and excited to get more big models on the table.
Glad you got some good tips from it man! Its funny after recording this I realized it probably had just as much info for countering as playing them hah. The dataslate was fantastic & not in an "oh they made us OP" kind of way so I'm excited to start playing them more too
I'm looking forward to the detachments the codex will bring.
Maybe some more reason to field my Tzeentch models other than the LoC.
Love it! "We're a melee army unless we have a game plan and do a lot of shooting" good description of most armies eh? Love the video, always entertaining bro
Heh well Daemons are mainly a melee army but you *can* run them ranged, not that I'd really recommend it 😜 Prolly could've said it better though lol - appreciate the comment man!
@fatarchon I dig your stuff man. I just comment cause it's good for business 👍🏻
Oh snap, my playa, appreciate the help in that case hah
He did it! Thank you so much! I cam handle melee I can handle gunlines. But daemons...completely different situation.
Glad it helped! Yeah Daemons can be a PITA to deal with sometimes. I just had a game earlier tonight where I ended up wiping out 3 Hammerheads + a Riptide in a single turn & basically won the game right there hah. Gotta screen that backline, or else!
I thought I loved you... how dare you betray us
Don't worry it's actually a psyop, really I'm trying to get them to fall into a trap whenever they fight other Daemons 😎
Fantastic videos! Just found your channel and as a relatively new player to 40K (started late 9th and only have a handful of games under my belt in 10th) and considering getting some daemons as another army this has been a huuuge help with your videos!
Quick question though as I haven't seen it clearly defined; does a Bloodthirster get the benefits of its' own auras? Wondering this for the +1 to Hit aura and adding the enhancement to him.
That's awesome to hear these videos were helpful for ya, glad I could influence you towards Chaos mwhaha 😜 as for your question, yup! BT would indeed benefit from his own auras, both the Shadow & the +1tH - granted the only time that one would help is when he's on his damaged profile (1-6 wounds) as otw he hits on 2's already
Whats your opinion about Skarbrand + Bloodthirster? Or would you rather not overcommit to the Khorne package and ho with a LoC?
I think it's a good combo, I used it the other night to good success. They double as drop pods for each other / give you the double whammy if you come in behind your opponent (or wherever). I'd say Khorne is hard to over commit to, he's easily the best god & even mono lists have won GTs. That said I usually bring the LoC with them too :P
My standard for GDs, lately, is Skarbrand, BT, LoC & GUO. From there the rest of the list gets changed up however :)
Okay, yeah might try that out. Currently usually running Rotigus + GuO, Skarbrand, LoC but may drop Rotigus now. Thanks for the answer.
Ohoo, Rotigus + GUO is a fun combo but for sure I'd try swapping Rotti for a BT & see how it works for ya
This was SUCH a great video! Was so useful as a daemon player. Won’t be showing my friends 😂. But was so good. Keep the content coming. Your channel is my favourite daemon channel by far!!
I am stoked for this.
For me, I want to play my EC as Dread Talons (minimal investment of time and zero for money). My NightLords I am building and planning for Deceptors detachment, I think it seems very fluffy as
Nice video!! How do you deal with fights first units?
Thanks! I actually have a video all about Fight Phase tactics that goes into the specifically if you want to check it out. The easiest way is to have a sacrificial unit that you throw in first -> get as many models as possible into b2b but leave a small gap for a 2nd squad to get within 1" of your target. They'll be stuck with the first squad so the 2nd will have free reign. The other way is to charge a diff. enemy unit next to their fight first & use a MW ability to clear the screen then pile into the FF one (FF is checked at the very start of the Fight Phase. If no one's in engagement range then they basically lose the ability the rest of the turn)
Here's the vid if you ever want to check it out though: ruclips.net/video/CWZTQ44Agag/видео.htmlsi=7HhjO4g-rnKcqjom
@@fatarchon awesome thanks! I’m gonna watch that vid now!!
Thanks! My friend keeps beating me with his Chaos Demons army (and talked with you about it on Reddit), so this video gives some great tips!
Tbh if your matches are that one-sided, your friend should be the one giving you those tips. :)
Awesome video! Just wanted to ask for some tips as someone relatively new to 40k; I started off playing imperial knights because I heard they are a pretty cheap army to collect and they look super cool. I'm starting to go to a couple of casual tournaments at my local game store now and am planning on attending the GT that'll be held there soon as well! What would you suggest to help play versus chaos demons as a imperial knights? Most of your suggestions here about feeding the big demons chaff or just screening them out don't really work for knights; the cheapest thing I have is my armigers and each one is a hefty chunk of points. On top of that, there isn't many ways to spam a whole ton of low STR or AP 0/-1 shots into demons just to out-dice their saves; pretty much every knight has low dice count and high AP and damage, which means a lot of times a huge amount of damage is just mitigated through invuls then FNPs.
Thanks for comment man, I LOVE helping newer players & you happen to have perfect timing; I just fought some Chaos Knights earlier today & noticed a bunch of mistakes they made throughout that basically handed me the game
First of all, your Armigers have crazy good OC so use that to your advantage to stop me from taking Primaries. My GDs only have 5oc vs your 8 & you should be able to just shoot off any smaller squads helping out my GDs. On the flip side, be very careful not to throw them away for a single turns worth of denial because I'll just make it all up on the clapback. I think in your case, target priority is going to be huge. Where my opponent really messed up today was hyper focusing on my big guys + not using any form of move blocking to keep me from getting where I wanted. Obv it depends on the list / board state, but try to take out my scoring ASAP so I'm forced to use big guys for actions. Having to devote a ~300pt model to gaining 2CP hurts!! Still shoot Melta at big guys but all your other guns should almost always focus something smaller (Flesh Hounds, Screamers, etc)
Be aware we're prolly going to try to move block you T1 so just be prepared for it. If/when that happens, (Nurglings, Screamers or Seekers most likely) shoot them a LITTLE BIT so only a base or 2 is left then charge them to gain back the lost movement.
That said, don't let me get easy charges on your key units. You might have to feed me an Armiger to do this but if it protects 2 other Armigers behind him, or a Questoris, it's prolly worth it
I'd cram in some cheap allies if I were you as well. If you don't I'm going to DS behind you with a Bloodthirster + Skarbrand & wreck literally any unit I want as you won't even have armor saves vs them. A cheap squad (or 3!) if Voidsman can be worth their weight in gold even if it's simply to stand in your DZ & screen, or better yet run into no man's land & screen your Armigers
Be aware, IK are heavily favored in that match up so don't be too afraid. Just be smart. Priorities should be scoring > movement / blocking > killing, in that order. Obv don't forget to do actions every single turn either, it's not worth giving up CP to kill in most cases
Try not to spread yourself out too much either. A lot of times it better to just focus down 2 objectives & cede the last one
Hope that helps man & feel free to ask away if you have any other questions 😎
What do you think about Bloodthirster after update? Feels like an auto include now. I know you briefly touched on them at the end of the video. Love your video!
He's definitely 'up there' now. I think Skarbrand still edges him out but really you can't go wrong with either of them łot better yet, both!). I've been using them as a duo a lot lately & he makes a great drop pod for Skarbrand + acts as a 2nd wave or distraction afterward. Dude is just as killy when you give him the Enhancement as well. x9 d6+2d attacks ain't no joke 😜
So yeah I like him a lot now!
It would be absolute fantastic if we had some way to earn cps :/
It's funny, technically we have a lot of regen but they're all conditional :( Kairos, Tormentbringer, Skulltaker & Epidemius - but all of them have hoops to jump through 😜
Which happens first.
Shadow of chaos check or corrupt realspace strat.
Both state "at the start of the phase.
If it's your turn you'd pick the sequencing, if it's your opponents turn technically they'd pick the order 😎 That applies to any "simultaneous" rules to my knowledge
Maybe you could show me a 1500 point army i could try out ?
Sure! Here's a quick one I threw together I think would be fun. Basically has 3/4s of what I'd normally run :)
++ Army Roster (Chaos - Chaos Daemons) [1,500pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Battle Size
Detachment Choice: Daemonic Incursion
Khorne Daemons are visible
Nurgle Daemons are visible
Show/Hide Options
Slaanesh Daemons are visible
Tzeentch Daemons are visible
+ Epic Hero [395pts] +
Skarbrand [305pts]: Bellow of endless fury, Slaughter and Carnage
The Changeling [90pts]: Infernal Flames, The Trickster's Staff
+ Character [550pts] +
Great Unclean One [260pts]: Bilesword, Plague flail, Putrid vomit, The Endless Gift [30pts], Warlord
Keeper of Secrets [290pts]: Phantasmagoria, Shining aegis, Snapping claws, Witstealer sword
+ Battleline [190pts] +
Nurglings [40pts]
. 3x Nurgling Swarm: 3x Diseased claws and teeth
Nurglings [40pts]
. 3x Nurgling Swarm: 3x Diseased claws and teeth
Plaguebearers [110pts]: Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos
. 10x Plaguebearer: 10x Plaguesword
+ Infantry [150pts] +
Flamers [75pts]
. 3x Flamer: 3x Flamer mouths, 3x Flickering Flames
Flamers [75pts]
. 3x Flamer: 3x Flamer mouths, 3x Flickering Flames
+ Beast [215pts] +
Flesh Hounds [70pts]
. 4x Flesh Hound: 4x Collar of Khorne, 4x Gore-drenched fangs
. Gore Hound: Burning maw, Collar of Khorne, Gore-drenched fangs
Flesh Hounds [70pts]
. 4x Flesh Hound: 4x Collar of Khorne, 4x Gore-drenched fangs
. Gore Hound: Burning maw, Collar of Khorne, Gore-drenched fangs
Screamers [75pts]
. 3x Screamer: 3x Lamprey bite
++ Total: [1,500pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe (battlescribe.net)
How does angron do against skarbrand?
Hmmm, I hopped on UnitCrunch & the results were interesting:
Angron attacking, with his rr hits aura enabled, will do 14D on average with only a 24% chance of killing Skarbrand in one round for a 51% points efficiency
Skarbrand on the other hand will do 12D on average with a 40% chance of killing Angron in a single go for 102% points efficiency
So... looks like Skarbrand wins this one pretty handily!
@@fatarchonthanks. Gonna have to add in moe or kharne and their unit to take him out.
Belakor😢?1
Lol, he's still decent I just think for 325pt there's a lot of other options that are arguably better 😜 But yes you'll most def see Belakor in a lot of lists, for good reason!
I appreciate it. I think people are misunderstanding the ruling for Belakor.
But you have to admit....being within 18" inches in charge range or that anti tank range for a lord of change is a massive risk.
Need that anti vehicle, and many armies don't have anti monster or daemon to even deal with it reliably enough to make it a good decision.
It's that risk for a massive tradeoff that is a big turn off for fun, because then players both need to expend parge portions of their army for a brawl that Belakor forces and in which the daemons are tailored for.
Even then they can change their positions at the smallest whim which is a huge problem.
I guess my issue is I cannot devote both brawling into potentially 2 greater daemons and still cover board presence enough to make it where I feel comfortable fighting daemons.
Just the other day I got into a 2v2. My Null Maidens/my partners' deathwatch(1st time space marines) vs SoB/Imp Knights.
It was a slaughterfest because we hid from the big dudes, played primary and secondary only, took kills when we could, primary mission was "Purge the Foe". So I know I'm not that bad of a pilot.
But my army choices are....well I like using harder to pilot armies and making them work, treating them like a puzzles to solve for myself. Which is my own handicap to make me improve, but dang...my refusal to use optimal pieces bites me hard here when I do face optimal pieces and lists.
Step 1: wait for points nerfs, including the GuO enhancement
Honest question: What else is undercosted aside from a GUO with that enhancement? It's one of my favorite parts of Daemons, nothing is roflstomp OP (imho!)
Both GuO and rottigus were undercosted even before the change to shadow but for the most part they’re pretty honest yeah.
The only other one you could stretch into a nerf would be regular keepers but most datasheets y’all got are pretty fair and honest.
No points increase to match the MASSIVE buff to greater daemons just feels like an oversight in the few games against them I’ve done
@@doofus151 Thing is, the greaters themselves are only "buffed" if you take more little dudes to use the auras. Which means less greater daemons and more list variety. It makes them better and at the same time less spammable
@@chashtag2336 And reduces the 100% need for Belakor for the ability to do a 9" then 6" deep strike.
And gives some more incentive to theme your demons by god... even if the Khorne synergies are still stronger than others.