This was a viewer request, but it was perfect timing as I literally just had a match vs Imperial Knights the other day that went about as good as you could hope for. I'd love to hear your guys' experiences though - do you struggle with Knights or are they breeze these days? Feel free to share any tips of your own. I know especially for newer players or people just getting into an army they can be an issue but once you know the strategy, I actually LIKE fighting Knights when I can Now, don't be surprised if we see a (small) resurgence in Knight armies with the new Pariah Nexus rules. Titanic units got a few buffs & who knows what the dataslate will change. Some of the Pariah Nexus changes for Knights include: - In the Deployment phase, when your opponent places down a Titanic unit you have to deploy an *additional* unit afterward, so they'll gain more info on where you're placing units - Titanic *characters* can do an action + still shoot/fight. This is a big one & might cause us to see more big boys. Canis Rex is already great & this just makes him even better Let me know if I missed any or if you have any tips of your own EDIT: Oops, for the "Gotchyas", Imperial Knights have Fight on Death not Fight First :)
If you could continue making videos about "how to beat X army/faction/detachment" you'll have a new subscriber right here. More tips like, if you wanna defeat imperial knights kill the small knights. If you want to defeat SW, move block. If you want to defeat drukhari, keep the pressure high and overwhelm then in one or two big pushes.
I'm a knight main, this is all pretty good advice. One thing you kinda mentioned but got a little wrong is know your enemy's strategems! Shoulder the burden is definitely great, but even Canis has to pay 1 to use it, and also it's once per GAME unless the army becomes honored, which is something else you should add: Don't throw your warlord into the fray unless you really mean it. If that warlord dies, and the knight player gets honored, you're in for a much worse time after that. Play cagey with your warlord, or watch your back line if that's the one they take (which realistically, almost no one does). The CP dump and 5+ FNP is a big momentum shifter. The other big strat to watch out for is Squire's Duty. Those helverin autocannons become a LOT scarier at AP-2, and strength 10 is one of those stat checks that tends to change the wound roll from a 5 to a 4 for a lot of vehicles. But yeah, overall, we're not that hard to beat, if you play for points, and ignore the big boys as long as you can afford to.
Fantastic advice & ty for clarifying all those. I might've forgotten to bring up the whole Honor thing too tbh hah Luckily (for you!) I think IK are in a decent place, CK though I still feel bad for..
This is probably the best tactica I've seen for taking on Knights. Every one of your points was spot on and I love the fact you explain the 'how' on top of the 'why'. Great work FA
First things first: the guide refers mostly to fighting Imperial Knights. Chaos is even more skewed, as well as somewhat underpowered at the moment. The 1CP for 4+Inv vs ranged is shared, but there's some major differences - primarily, CK don't have the 6+ FNP, they can only get it with a strategem and only in melee. They're therefore even squishier in melee. Speaking of which: you're kind of underplaying how squishy even the big ones are in melee if you poke them with a big enough stick. Last game, I've managed to more-or-less 100-0 a 550 point Knight Castellan with a single Maulerfiend costing 130. Being in Soulforged helped, but in the same game Vashtorr managed a similar feat (this time vs. a Cerastus Lancer) despite not benefitting from the detachment at all. Also, neither gets Fight First - Imperials get Fight on Death, but that only triggers once per unit and unless they're Honored (see below) it gets the -1 to hit from being damaged. Further: remember about nuisance charges. While move-blocking the big stuff is always good, sometimes it's even better to charge it, particularly if it's shooting focused like the Castellan, Crusader or Valiant. While it won't stop them from shooting due to Big Guns Never Tire, the -1 to hit might mean the difference between your own gun platform surviving to return fire and going up in flames. Also note that despite being able to literally walk over your units, the enemy will have to Fall Back if they intend to move the unit at all and forego shooting altogether. One final note, on Imperials specifically. They will always have an additional objective that they select at the start of the battle, their Deed. It can either be to kill your Warlord or to control an Objective in your DZ - be sure to remember which one is it, as achieving it not only immediately gives them 3CP to beat you upside the head with, it will also improve their global FNP from 6 to a 5++ - basically doubling their surivability. Always keep that in mind, especially if they go for the home field one - they do get to Fade and Deep Strike one of their thicc bois with an enhancement, so remember your screens.
Yeah you're spot on how I mainly focused on IK & not CK, mainly because of the power disparity but I should've tossed some more info out about them for sure! For the Fight First that was a typo heh, I put it in the pinned comment but I don't expect everyone to see it :P All that said you're spot on with everything!! Hell man you should be writing some tactica apparently I LOVE Soulforged into Knights too. I see you're a man of taste with the Maulerfiends as well, I had great results too but my big MVP was definitely the Vindicator once you make him a Daemon Vehicle. Dropping a Questoris or Abhorrent is a breeze with that dude, granted you do have to deal with some of the variance but hitting 2's, re-rolling, with Sustained, wounding on 2's, with AP4 if you needed it is spicy. Venomcrawlers have been amazingly good as well, not just Knights but every match up. With the +1tW they're basically anti-everything imho Anywho, you had great advice. Appreciate you taking the time to share some of your tactics
@@fatarchon thing is: I'm not a huge fan of the Rhino chassis. Don't get me wrong, having one or two is ok, but... That's not what I'm here for. I'd much rather pay 190 for a Defiler than pay 15 less for something... More efficient, perhaps, but definitely bland. Sepeaking of, the big crab also slaps the snot out of the big Bois, on top of shooting that can make quick work of a small fry if the random number god is on your side
Thank you brother 😎 Legitimately, they CAN BE some of the easier opponents once you get your list ironed out & learn to kill the scoring first etc. Either way, appreciate the comment & hope you go kick some Knight ass lol
Perfect timing again as I am pitching my spooky bat boys into some chaos knights this weekend, lets see how they like taking battleshocks at ld8 after 1 damage is done 😈 (grenades for 1cp will be my friend i think)
Same here. Soulforged came out neeeearly untouched so they might just become the top legion. I'm also thinking of going back to my Daemons for comp play though 😜
Can you do a guide on how to deal with the various army styles? Shooting, Melee rush, and then a special request from HOW TO BEAT A BELAKOR DAEMONs army? I legit have PSTD because some of my first matches was againsr Daemons. So Belakor gave me trauma, by being piloted by my local group's "that guy".
Shooot, Daemons are probably my favorite army in the game right now - you should almost be thanking your lucky stars they're still using Belakor & not spending those pts on something better mwhaha (I'm *mostly* joking, obv he's great esp with a good pilot). Daemons are vicious period though ESPECIALLY vs newer players Thats a great suggestion though. I can't promise it but 100% I'll see what I can come up with :) What army do you run btw?
@@fatarchon usually a a gunline based CSM list. Remember I play a lot of Fellhammer Seigehost? Melee is a weakness for the detachment and forces me to sink CP into it.
Aha, yeah Belakor would definitely give that some trouble. But roger that, if I end up putting that video together I'll make sure I keep Fellhammer in mind ❤️ I guess my off the cuff advice for now would be, ignore Belakor. He's 350pt for crappy melee & the lone op bubble. Obviously the bubble is an issue but everything else about him is pretty so-so considering his cost. Kill the scoring, screen the greater daemons & save belly for last. Only if he exposes himself early would I go for him otw by T2/3 the bubble shouldn't be an issue anymore - in a lot of games
I've been dinking around with tossing a Despoiler in my lists, but yeah in the end War Dogs are still the way to go I think. I wouldn't be surprised if the Codex flips that all on its head though, whenever that comes around..
@@fatarchon I think the only viable big guy right now is a lancer, but u can only hope in regards to the codex... I hope we will get some support ground troops even more
Ohhh that did cross my mind. I think there was another Cult list that went 6-0 too! I had a feeling they'd be incredibly strong - apparently I wasn't alone
Awesome video! What map are you using in the video? I used your guide for TTS to get things set up and want to find more maps beyond the WTC tournament ones on steam.
I pulled it up for ya & the name is kinda silly, though it's actually good because it plays into how to find "pretty" maps like that hah The map name was "FTC 60 x 44" Strike Force 40k Additive Load" by Quickscoped JFK. The tip though: instead of 'WTC' search for 'FTC' or 'FTC Map' & you'll see a boatload. They don't always have the most fair terrain but they're damn pretty lol
I have a game against Chaos knights coming up, so i going to bring my own knight, the melee one, he is going to tag team with my Defiler, because i think that is cool. Probably not going to run that as Renegades this time.
I too like tag teams 😜 lol No legit that sounds like a fun combo to run, don't think there's much that can stand up to a Knight + Defiler duo & at the very very least the Knight should run a good distraction
This is exactly the video I was looking for! A little hypocritical because I’d kill for a knight army, because they’re the perfect hobby project, but I detest, absolutely detest playing against knights. I’d rather play 10 games of launch-10th edition eldar than a game with knights. The game just feels so uninteractive and unfun playing against knights😅
You're indeed exactly who this is for then! 😜 I used to hate fighting them too but now they're probably my favorite match up. I definitely think their weaknesses outweigh their strengths *but* for sure they can just run over certain opponents. Tbh that's another reason I love fighting them - I don't feel at all bad for dominating them because I know they just take advantage of unprepared players themselves for a lot of their wins! Also, yes they're a fantastic army to get into. If you mainly play smaller games maybe just as allies but even then, beautiful models & very easy to build / collect
Idk man, as a knights player I definitely don't feel op lol, not that I'm an amazing player or anything, but especially against certain armies I almost always get outplayed, even tabled
Big knight *characters* can, yup! They also force their opponent to deploy an additional unit after they place down one of their Titanic units (not just characters I believe). GW's definitely been making some changes in the right direction imho
Lmao, I knew you bastards would show up! Mwhaha 😜 Nah hopefully this sparked an idea or two on what we're trying to do on our end so you can deny it. I do think as a Knight player I'd be trying to cram some cheap chaff into my list for sure though. And who knows, the dataslate might shake things up a lot!!
@@fatarchonI started collecting daemons recently too, probably the most different gameplay style I could think of, so that will give me a little whiplash😅😅haven't gotten to play them yet, hoping to do ok lol
Chaos Knights are about the same! With IK tbh I almost think doing actions & still fighting / shooting with their titanic characters is a bigger deal but yeah, keep their movement in mind for sure!
![Bretonnian Steel vs Tomb Kings' Bronze! [WH Old World 2000p BR]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IfSQbapqxwA/mqdefault.jpg)
This was a viewer request, but it was perfect timing as I literally just had a match vs Imperial Knights the other day that went about as good as you could hope for. I'd love to hear your guys' experiences though - do you struggle with Knights or are they breeze these days? Feel free to share any tips of your own. I know especially for newer players or people just getting into an army they can be an issue but once you know the strategy, I actually LIKE fighting Knights when I can
Now, don't be surprised if we see a (small) resurgence in Knight armies with the new Pariah Nexus rules. Titanic units got a few buffs & who knows what the dataslate will change. Some of the Pariah Nexus changes for Knights include:
- In the Deployment phase, when your opponent places down a Titanic unit you have to deploy an *additional* unit afterward, so they'll gain more info on where you're placing units
- Titanic *characters* can do an action + still shoot/fight. This is a big one & might cause us to see more big boys. Canis Rex is already great & this just makes him even better
Let me know if I missed any or if you have any tips of your own
EDIT: Oops, for the "Gotchyas", Imperial Knights have Fight on Death not Fight First :)
If you could continue making videos about "how to beat X army/faction/detachment" you'll have a new subscriber right here.
More tips like, if you wanna defeat imperial knights kill the small knights. If you want to defeat SW, move block. If you want to defeat drukhari, keep the pressure high and overwhelm then in one or two big pushes.
I'm a knight main, this is all pretty good advice. One thing you kinda mentioned but got a little wrong is know your enemy's strategems! Shoulder the burden is definitely great, but even Canis has to pay 1 to use it, and also it's once per GAME unless the army becomes honored, which is something else you should add: Don't throw your warlord into the fray unless you really mean it. If that warlord dies, and the knight player gets honored, you're in for a much worse time after that. Play cagey with your warlord, or watch your back line if that's the one they take (which realistically, almost no one does). The CP dump and 5+ FNP is a big momentum shifter. The other big strat to watch out for is Squire's Duty. Those helverin autocannons become a LOT scarier at AP-2, and strength 10 is one of those stat checks that tends to change the wound roll from a 5 to a 4 for a lot of vehicles. But yeah, overall, we're not that hard to beat, if you play for points, and ignore the big boys as long as you can afford to.
Fantastic advice & ty for clarifying all those. I might've forgotten to bring up the whole Honor thing too tbh hah
Luckily (for you!) I think IK are in a decent place, CK though I still feel bad for..
This is probably the best tactica I've seen for taking on Knights. Every one of your points was spot on and I love the fact you explain the 'how' on top of the 'why'. Great work FA
Love it! "Here is how you destroy a specific army!" "If you are new, you should invest in these guys" 😂
Lol yeah I don't really have a rebuttal to that 😜
First things first: the guide refers mostly to fighting Imperial Knights. Chaos is even more skewed, as well as somewhat underpowered at the moment. The 1CP for 4+Inv vs ranged is shared, but there's some major differences - primarily, CK don't have the 6+ FNP, they can only get it with a strategem and only in melee. They're therefore even squishier in melee.
Speaking of which: you're kind of underplaying how squishy even the big ones are in melee if you poke them with a big enough stick. Last game, I've managed to more-or-less 100-0 a 550 point Knight Castellan with a single Maulerfiend costing 130. Being in Soulforged helped, but in the same game Vashtorr managed a similar feat (this time vs. a Cerastus Lancer) despite not benefitting from the detachment at all. Also, neither gets Fight First - Imperials get Fight on Death, but that only triggers once per unit and unless they're Honored (see below) it gets the -1 to hit from being damaged.
Further: remember about nuisance charges. While move-blocking the big stuff is always good, sometimes it's even better to charge it, particularly if it's shooting focused like the Castellan, Crusader or Valiant. While it won't stop them from shooting due to Big Guns Never Tire, the -1 to hit might mean the difference between your own gun platform surviving to return fire and going up in flames. Also note that despite being able to literally walk over your units, the enemy will have to Fall Back if they intend to move the unit at all and forego shooting altogether.
One final note, on Imperials specifically. They will always have an additional objective that they select at the start of the battle, their Deed. It can either be to kill your Warlord or to control an Objective in your DZ - be sure to remember which one is it, as achieving it not only immediately gives them 3CP to beat you upside the head with, it will also improve their global FNP from 6 to a 5++ - basically doubling their surivability. Always keep that in mind, especially if they go for the home field one - they do get to Fade and Deep Strike one of their thicc bois with an enhancement, so remember your screens.
Yeah you're spot on how I mainly focused on IK & not CK, mainly because of the power disparity but I should've tossed some more info out about them for sure! For the Fight First that was a typo heh, I put it in the pinned comment but I don't expect everyone to see it :P All that said you're spot on with everything!! Hell man you should be writing some tactica apparently
I LOVE Soulforged into Knights too. I see you're a man of taste with the Maulerfiends as well, I had great results too but my big MVP was definitely the Vindicator once you make him a Daemon Vehicle. Dropping a Questoris or Abhorrent is a breeze with that dude, granted you do have to deal with some of the variance but hitting 2's, re-rolling, with Sustained, wounding on 2's, with AP4 if you needed it is spicy. Venomcrawlers have been amazingly good as well, not just Knights but every match up. With the +1tW they're basically anti-everything imho
Anywho, you had great advice. Appreciate you taking the time to share some of your tactics
@@fatarchon thing is: I'm not a huge fan of the Rhino chassis. Don't get me wrong, having one or two is ok, but... That's not what I'm here for. I'd much rather pay 190 for a Defiler than pay 15 less for something... More efficient, perhaps, but definitely bland.
Sepeaking of, the big crab also slaps the snot out of the big Bois, on top of shooting that can make quick work of a small fry if the random number god is on your side
Fantastic video Archon!! I've had a hell of a time versus my friends IK so I'm going to give these tips a shot next game
Thank you brother 😎 Legitimately, they CAN BE some of the easier opponents once you get your list ironed out & learn to kill the scoring first etc. Either way, appreciate the comment & hope you go kick some Knight ass lol
One of my armies is Chaos Knights, mainly because they are awesome to model, lol.
Yeah man I love my Chaos Knights too. Really hoping they make the Abominant usable 'cause it's one of my favorite models!!
Perfect timing again as I am pitching my spooky bat boys into some chaos knights this weekend, lets see how they like taking battleshocks at ld8 after 1 damage is done 😈 (grenades for 1cp will be my friend i think)
after this dataslate im full steam ahead with soulforged warpack, taking it to an rtt next weekend
Same here. Soulforged came out neeeearly untouched so they might just become the top legion. I'm also thinking of going back to my Daemons for comp play though 😜
@@fatarchon daemons are looking good!
Yet another great video, I have never had to deal with Knights ever.
This was my first video I've seen from you Fat Archon and I loved it,
You sure earned another subscriber!
Great stuff. Video idea: unit tier list and/or 1 strategy for every unit (even if it's F tier) - could be a fun challenge.
Great stuff! Ive been looking for "how to beat x army" videos
There's a one-word answer to fighting knights. Shalaxi :)
Ohoo, I like your style! Yes Shalaxi is a boss into Knights
... Well, into literally anything
As a knight player Shilaxi is actually pretty easy to kill with knights.
Can you do a guide on how to deal with the various army styles? Shooting, Melee rush, and then a special request from HOW TO BEAT A BELAKOR DAEMONs army?
I legit have PSTD because some of my first matches was againsr Daemons. So Belakor gave me trauma, by being piloted by my local group's "that guy".
Shooot, Daemons are probably my favorite army in the game right now - you should almost be thanking your lucky stars they're still using Belakor & not spending those pts on something better mwhaha (I'm *mostly* joking, obv he's great esp with a good pilot). Daemons are vicious period though ESPECIALLY vs newer players
Thats a great suggestion though. I can't promise it but 100% I'll see what I can come up with :) What army do you run btw?
@@fatarchon usually a a gunline based CSM list. Remember I play a lot of Fellhammer Seigehost? Melee is a weakness for the detachment and forces me to sink CP into it.
Aha, yeah Belakor would definitely give that some trouble. But roger that, if I end up putting that video together I'll make sure I keep Fellhammer in mind ❤️
I guess my off the cuff advice for now would be, ignore Belakor. He's 350pt for crappy melee & the lone op bubble. Obviously the bubble is an issue but everything else about him is pretty so-so considering his cost. Kill the scoring, screen the greater daemons & save belly for last. Only if he exposes himself early would I go for him otw by T2/3 the bubble shouldn't be an issue anymore - in a lot of games
@@fatarchon I'll keep that in mind. Makes me think that I need more melee threats in my list then.
As always appreciate you as a CSM mentor.
You gotta make update here. Super Heavy Knights can go through all terrain now, AND they can do actions and still shoot.
well only need to update imp knights for that :D
@@lassemelson5668 chaos can also do it :)
@@DudexNOR I know they just dont use big knights :P
I've been dinking around with tossing a Despoiler in my lists, but yeah in the end War Dogs are still the way to go I think. I wouldn't be surprised if the Codex flips that all on its head though, whenever that comes around..
@@fatarchon I think the only viable big guy right now is a lancer, but u can only hope in regards to the codex... I hope we will get some support ground troops even more
❤👏🔥 another amazing video
Archon! dude you should review the Cultist list that the Dirtbags ran last weekend for a 7-1! looks insane!
Ohhh that did cross my mind. I think there was another Cult list that went 6-0 too! I had a feeling they'd be incredibly strong - apparently I wasn't alone
Awesome video! What map are you using in the video? I used your guide for TTS to get things set up and want to find more maps beyond the WTC tournament ones on steam.
I pulled it up for ya & the name is kinda silly, though it's actually good because it plays into how to find "pretty" maps like that hah
The map name was "FTC 60 x 44" Strike Force 40k Additive Load" by Quickscoped JFK. The tip though: instead of 'WTC' search for 'FTC' or 'FTC Map' & you'll see a boatload. They don't always have the most fair terrain but they're damn pretty lol
@@fatarchon great! That helps a ton! Thanks again for the info and the video!
I have a game against Chaos knights coming up, so i going to bring my own knight, the melee one, he is going to tag team with my Defiler, because i think that is cool. Probably not going to run that as Renegades this time.
I too like tag teams 😜 lol
No legit that sounds like a fun combo to run, don't think there's much that can stand up to a Knight + Defiler duo & at the very very least the Knight should run a good distraction
This is exactly the video I was looking for! A little hypocritical because I’d kill for a knight army, because they’re the perfect hobby project, but I detest, absolutely detest playing against knights. I’d rather play 10 games of launch-10th edition eldar than a game with knights. The game just feels so uninteractive and unfun playing against knights😅
You're indeed exactly who this is for then! 😜 I used to hate fighting them too but now they're probably my favorite match up. I definitely think their weaknesses outweigh their strengths *but* for sure they can just run over certain opponents. Tbh that's another reason I love fighting them - I don't feel at all bad for dominating them because I know they just take advantage of unprepared players themselves for a lot of their wins!
Also, yes they're a fantastic army to get into. If you mainly play smaller games maybe just as allies but even then, beautiful models & very easy to build / collect
Idk man, as a knights player I definitely don't feel op lol, not that I'm an amazing player or anything, but especially against certain armies I almost always get outplayed, even tabled
@@Trrip000 it’s not about matchup it’s more about how uninteractive games against knights tend to be xd
Big Knights can shoot and do actions now
Big knight *characters* can, yup! They also force their opponent to deploy an additional unit after they place down one of their Titanic units (not just characters I believe). GW's definitely been making some changes in the right direction imho
@@fatarchon Agreed :D
aint all big knights characters by definition.. think they all have the keyword
As an imperial knight player i feel like im in enemy territory, gathering secret intel😈
Lmao, I knew you bastards would show up! Mwhaha 😜 Nah hopefully this sparked an idea or two on what we're trying to do on our end so you can deny it. I do think as a Knight player I'd be trying to cram some cheap chaff into my list for sure though. And who knows, the dataslate might shake things up a lot!!
If the assassin wasn't out of stock at all times I definitely would have done that a while ago 🥲@@fatarchon
@@fatarchonI started collecting daemons recently too, probably the most different gameplay style I could think of, so that will give me a little whiplash😅😅haven't gotten to play them yet, hoping to do ok lol
This is not as easy anymore with the coolaid man ability.
Chaos Knights are about the same! With IK tbh I almost think doing actions & still fighting / shooting with their titanic characters is a bigger deal but yeah, keep their movement in mind for sure!