Agreed! I am already happy with my MDRX FE but would be cool to get a WLVRN DMR to go with it. I like the current trigger weight of the MDRX for its intended purpose. Dedicated DMR with a little extra refinement would be amazing. -lighter fixed weight match trigger and trigger work to make it as crisp as possible -mantis hand guard out of the box -heavier barrel profile, or whatever profile works best to improve accuracy the most -built in SRS style monopod, if you are looking to be the most accurate it’s hard to beat, as long as it easy to stow away -adjustable cheek riser and buttplate
I will be using 1 of your semi autos in the 1moa all day challenge. You have also vindicated me.."Supressors Increase Accuracy" Ive been saying that in my 308 Mdrx Yes..Show us your super match Wlvrn!
if you want to do the 1moa all day challenge, I Highly recommend you get a custom blank chambered to your specifications and handload some tuned ammo for that gun. I would do the same for my accuracy international in that challenge fwiw. I see a place that offer exactly what you'd need if you have the coin for an 1100$ ready to go barrel. I may well do that one day.
@codyshields3797 I have no intention of doing that challenge with a custom barrel or handloads (I have acess to both). Factory rifle and ammo are how I want to play (Production vs Custom). Will it be moa all day. Probably not..But it'll be a good data point for that challenge..I never said "I" could shoot MOA all day :p If you want to play, the challenge is active until August.
@@DesertTechUT, where's the 30-06 that takes BAR Magazines since 30-06 Rifles pre exists female voting rights therefore it's immune to female opinions. Did you know that 30-06 rifles can be used to illustrate the degradation of the 2nd Amendment. 😎.
When someone is willing to admit the weaknesses of their product along with the strengths it's says something about them. Thank you for chasing innovation and improvement. Really enjoyed the vid.
I would love to see an MDR/WLVRN lower with build in monopod. Excellent video that was incredibly informative. I have definitely found the extended Mantis handguard makes shooting groups much more consistent. Would be pretty interesting to offer the WLVRN as a DMR with a few extra steps like you discussed to refine accuracy. SUPER interested to see you making a match variant. Great idea. Do you think the MDR/MDRX FE system had any impact on accuracy? I would think the bullet would already be long gone by the time the FE mechanism actuates? But would be cool to know.
Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad you enjoyed the information! I'll share the results of what I build, and share it's performance. I love the mantis bipod handguards the are the best!
@@DesertTechUT, i still love my DT MDRX with the Mantis handguard. Best product ive ever use, thank you❤! I like to see a video with the 20inc .308 WLVRN and AP ammo like the M993 or M61 against body armour and plates! The WLVRN can show how effektive a short bullpub with or without supressor can fight against armoured oponments😊
Yes it had an impact on accuracy because the extra gas required to reliably operate the FE system increased barrel movement and we saw that the higher we set the gas the less accurate the rifle became on the FE MDR rifles.
You have some of the most informative and open information of any firearms mfgr on the internet. This how you gain interest and potential customers. Great job!!
Agreed. I haven’t seen any of these technical hurdles addressed by gun makers on RUclips. It’s one of those - it’s harder than it looks if you want to reach the top levels of accuracy.
Hey, Nick, you are probably the most available REAL small arms specialist/designer/manufacturer we have here on youtube and you look pretty self-critical and interested in the discussion about the future of small arms, that said, I feel like you are the only guy who could get your hands on a rm277, bring it side to side with your sabertooth and then make a super video about bullpups and the military, your views between the tech you choose to your rifle and what they choose to theirs, why do you think they both failed the ngsw, and anything else you find proper to this kind of discussion. As you mentioned in the video regarding the aspects you dislike about the AR-15, things rejected by the military, no matter how good they were or why they were rejected, tend to fade into oblivion, and I really like both projects and wanted to know more about them, specially if it came from a guy like you.
I will try to make this happen. I think the RM277 is pretty awesome for shootability even though it compromises in other areas to achieve it. It is very cool.
Best Accuracy I've seen to date in the best 308 WLVRN barrel I have shot is 3 to 4 shots in .25" with the 5th opening it up to .75" (unsuppressed btw). We are seeing some variation in the 308 barrels though and some are 1 to 1.75" unsuppressed. I will be doing a full accuracy report next week.
What will you be doing to improve your semi auto rifles reliability, both the MDRX and the new WLVRN have had major issues which puts people like me off from buying them since its such an pricey rifle.
Like what? Im aware of one RUclips video where the magazines were falling out. Its pretty easy to fix too, it would be like complaining that your AR15 gas rings were misaligned at the factory. Just fix it.
Major for both? So far only 1 reviewer is showing mag drop issues.It got addressed. Everyone else with a 308 Wlvrn has made it through without dropping a mag. The Mdrx is quite functional today vs where it was. That what was mostly show in this accuracy video.
The mag drop issue was due to the mag release spring being cut in half. We do not know who cut the spring but we replaced it with a full length spring and it resolved it.
If you sell Cali compliant versions, maybe just create a closed handguard without any mlok slots. European exports such as Germany need a hadguard with no "thermal venting holes" because that's considered a machine gun feature. Only the bottom row of mlok is fine since that's not the direction heat goes. And maybe the access slot for the adjustable gas block.
I am pretty sure that you could make a more accurate semi-auto rifle. 1. Striker fire in a semi-auto doesn't seem impossible. It could reduce lock time, and it could also reduce the movement caused by the pull of the trigger. 2. Putting your monopod in the stock semi-auto might need some redesign. 3. My understanding is that it is possible to make the gun safer on a drop by making the center of gravity of the trigger a point of pivot so that the trigger doesn't rotate on a drop. 4. My understanding would lead me to believe that the AR-15 gas system would have less impact on the barrel because of the gas because I think the bullet would leave the barrel before the movement of the bolt carrier. If not, I suppose there is a gas system with less impact on the barrel. Inertia-driven system? 5. A wild idea would be a magazine that doesn't exert pressure on the bolt carrier and releases the bullet at the end of the travel of the bolt, like the Mek interceptor crossbow magazine. You can see the feature at 2:40 in the Joerg Sprave video on the Mek interceptor in english. 6. A match-grade barrel and match ammo seem like a no-brainer. 7. You are Desert Tech, so why not a bullpup?
There are several striker fired rifles from days of old but they have really heavy strikers that would perform worse than the hammer. I think it’s possible to make a better one though.
@@DesertTechUT yes (Nick?), you're welcome. I think you guys would kill the competition if you put the emphasis on reliability and solid machining-internally. are you guys hiring any engineers?
@@DesertTechUT nice, thanks Nick, if I were in your area I'd jump on it but my family is in AZ. I'm also an active member of NSW and would like to test the WLVRN as I run drills every week and enjoy long range as well. I had the 2023 MDRX and my bolt had three pieces chip off between two bolts on my first (waited about a week for a new bolt) and second trip to the range. Parts of the lugs on both and another of the rear supporting lugs. Also, my sling came undone the rifle dropped about 2 feet and the mag release lever snapped in half. My questions are: Are the bolts one solid homogenous material or is it pieced together somehow? Are some of the parts that were cast forged now being milled because of these issues? I look forward to the mud/sand test video very much and hope you can dive into theory on reliability where it counts.. thanks again for the dm from the top. I'll brag about it! Ha
That SRS lock time is seriously impressive. Only thing that i've seen that is faster is the austrian Rößler Titan at 1.6ms and the Anschütz 2000 at 1.5ms lock time. The McMillan Alias was supposed to have a 1ms lock time Anschütz trigger but i've never seen that confirmed and the rifle kinda flopped.
Integral suppressors generally port holes in the barrel to slow velocity down to achieve subsonic velocity. An integral suppressor on the full power rifle caliber would really just be mounted more permanently and accomplish the same as a detachable can but doesn't have a chance to come loose like a detachable can.
I like the integral can idea for 300blk specifically, if you cant make a 300blk micron to work. It would allow you to use a high back pressure can to aid in cycling subs, and keep the OAL at 16in.
Ruger was piston operated and the handguard was touching the barrel on one side so there isn’t any reason for it to shoot good. It was an anomaly we couldn’t figure out.
As per usual, very cool content y’all are putting out. I really enjoy learning the nitty gritty regarding firearms design & function. My biggest question, & I think it’s on topic: do y’all have any update incoming on accuracy updates available to MDRX owners? Particularly a piston/op-rod upgrade from the concave/convex interface to flat/flat, & the JB Weld procedure for the MDRX barrel extension? Thanks in advance.
Does DesertTech measure group size in severe duty situations where the shooter might be firing multiple magazines in a short amount of time? It would be interesting to compare “benchrest” accuracy to “firefight” accuracy when the weapon heats up and metal components start moving with the heat.
@@guillaumeausset8254 the German military seemed to care about problems with the G36 having accuracy issues when the weapon became hot and suffered from decreased accuracy. In combat situations having an accurate rifle is an important consideration if you are going to lug a piece of metal into a fight it should function as intended, hot or cold.
No one offers match barrels yet..Wlvrn has barely been out. +1 on the monopod..There is space for it in the chasis The Dt owner has said he won't do Ar15 grip compatibility
So much info every time. I'll watch it again for sure. I'm very interested in both 300 blackout and a 6 max build, I loved the CBM videos, awesome info as well. Love the 6 arc and would like more of your views on 6 max vs 6 arc build.
Great sharing of knowledge. Thanks! How about a vid that shows the accuracy evaluation for the Wolverine like you just showed on that batch of other rifles.
We aren't currently working on any new calibers because we are focused on the production launch and ensuring rifles and parts meet the quality and performance we and you demand. We will make more offerings in the future but not for this year.
We want a small frame wlvern for the smaller 556 6 arc 300bo 6max 6x45.. cartridges! Get that bad boy lighted ever more! I know alot of people who would rather save a pound or 2 instead of being able to switch from 556 to 308.. its like getting a ar10 an shooting 556 or getting a long action bolt action rifle an shooting 6.5 grendel... most people will never even switch calibers.. keep the large frame! But we need a lighter more nimble small frame! 🎉
Right now we are focused on a successful launch and ensure the quality and performance of production rifles meet everyones expectations. We aren't going to entertain any more conversion kits until next year.
Would love to see the performance of wlvrn 300 blk suppressed switching between subs and supers and what gas settings you need with and without flow through cans. Great video by the way.
DESERT TECH hey what about 20 inch barrel wlvrn with a bayonet lug that would be awesome for a steel spike bayonet for hunting or knife bayonet for well just in case😂
@DesertTechUT YES THAT WOULD BE AMAZING i love 20 inch barrels for 556 but m16 just isn't the best for clearing tight hallways and rooms but a wlvrn with 20 inch and bayonet, dang that would be nicein stead of jabbing with barrel a little stabby stab or slice and dice 🤣
Enjoyed the video. As a video request, it would be great to see a side by side deep dive comparison of what the differences are between the Sabertooth and WLVRN internally and externally. As per your analysis on other videos, go over the reasons behind the differences.
I’ve seen DT rifles in stores but found the platforms confusing so I moved on to purchase guns from other makers. For example, they had a bunch of rifles with no barrels - just the chassis for sale. I guess this was a mix and match kind of deal. I’ve also steered clear of bull pups from negative experiences with autoloaders - I have an old bushmaster M17s that has: crappy trigger, weird weight distribution, and fills your face with gas. All together a bad shooting experience. I suppose the bolt action platforms would avoid some of these problems. Anyway, an overview of the product lines would be helpful for me. I’m in your target market; I enjoy long range shooting, retired with a budget that accommodates your brand positioning (ie price points), and interest in better weapons technology. Your video raised the interest by educating the audience on why features are required to address often overlooked challenges to achieve accuracy with autoloaders.
Thank you for sharing your experience and perspective. They’re definitely is a big education piece as well as obstacles to overcome. We don’t sell the rifle chassis separate from the barrel conversion kits anymore for the reasons that you mentioned had confused you very good feedback for sure.
I always thought that suppressors do increase accuracy but i couldn't tell why, at first i thought its wrong since the barrel is longer and thus less stiff making the barrel wiggle/whip more. perhaps a heavier and shorter suppressor would be even better?
Very good video, it really looks like a longer gas system and a heavy barrel would really help the 308 and possibly 6.5. You mentioned an MDRx accuracy kit/service update in the live stream for last week, I don't think we have seen it. Could we get an update on that project?
Not from DT but you can buy a gunsmith kit from DT for the WLVRN and it comes with a print that will show your local smith how to spin up a match barrel for you.
Would loading your own ammo help, if you optimize case length, shoulder height, neck length, ogive placement, etc, to match ammo to the rifle's particular chamber? I'd think so.
Man a guaranteed 1 MOA from factory super match 6.5 CM with an extended mantis hand guard would fly off the shelves. EDIT: love the videos and the openness
When listening to guys with math and statistics skills. The smallest sampling of shots fired for reliable statistical power is suggested to be 20-30 rounds. If you know any statisticians it would be nice have them validate your data for statistical power. Bryan Zolnikov on RUclips has legit skills to do that.
@@DesertTechUT Your question is too detailed and mathematical. All I remember from Zolnikovs tests is he uses ANOVA + mabye one other and then validates the data with a power analysis. I think Power has to do with determinig wheather your sample was big enough for the probability data to be valid. Keith Glasscock at Winning in the Wind also uses ANOVA and other statistics for proving things but his channel is way less statistical in nature.
I’ve got your SRS A1 and HTI, I’d love to see a heavier (and longer) barrel with integral bipod in the handguard and a 1:10 twist NOT the 1:11 that I got with my SRS barrel that I thought was going to be 1:10.
@@DesertTechUT I’m too old for runnin’ and gunin’ so I would like to see 22” on both .308 and 6.5 CM or since it’s a bullpup even a 24” would be shorter than normal rifles
@@DesertTechUT I know cuz I own one too they are on sale from psa for only 899... That's a steal for the build quality and all you get in them! I'm saving up for one of yours next hopefully I can find a good deal on them.
You have a lot of dead space in the buttstock of the WLVRN, you can put a cheater pod that operates the same was as extending the front bipod legs that slide down out of the buttstock. pinch and pull down. it can also be isolated from the rest of the rifle with internal molding.
@@DesertTechUT Oh that is very interesting. I have had the same thought that that is where I would put the battery for power rail. I wonder why power rail systems haven't seen wide adoption. I am assuming it is probably around cost and/or patent issues.
They aren't a good idea because they don't offer more than just separate modules. Especially when you put everything in one module then it negates the need for the rail.
When the sabertooth handguards come out then that will resolve that issue 100%. They will be available to purchase as an accessory option for mdr and wlvrn owners.
I’m still holding out hope that BLK LBL will release an UPDATE to their Mantis that follows the improvements they made for the AR-15/10 Handguard. That would allow cans to fit inside the diameter since the 2nd gen legs do not cant. It’s a compromise, but well worth it for a Patrol or Battle rifle like the Wolverine. I would love to see the Prototype DTSS Reflex, Flow-Through suppressor you made for the NGSW come to market. And to be matched with that BLK LBL Mantis 2.0. The last piece of the Desert Tech Halo Battle Rifle will be the Electronic ScopeSwitch from Antimatter. They are about 10 minutes away from your factory in West Valley, and they are big fans of the platforms you work on.
I too would love an updated BLK LBL as I grow really tired of removing muzzle devices to changes out barrels, and I hate haven't to take the handguard of to change barrels too. I will nag Dalton at BLK LBL but only time will tell if he decides to do one or not. I'll have to visit Antimatter and play with one. I didn't know they were in Utah.
Nice video❤, Please can you give Garant Thumb an WLVRN for a crazy Video. And is youre Sabertooth less accurate than the WLVRN because of he is fully automatic? And how much is the difference
DI vs piston video, you say here that either can be just as reliable but the fact is DI has less barrel harmonics so a video going over the differences in detail and why you picked piston for the MDR/WLVRN would be helpful! And you mentioned potentially doing it before but again, a full auto recoil control video would be cool, specifically with a 308 Sabertooth 16” barrel And a basic flash hider rather than a brake
I may be wrong but I don't think the lock time have a visible effect on accuracy. Why? An eye blink is between 100-150ms ; in even 10ms, 10 times less than a fast blink, I don't think we move a notch. It's been 10 years now that I'm working in mechanical engineering and I'm often looking at my caliper to check if the thickness of material I want to put looks ok or not. It's easy to get lost in scale.
I was wanting to measure this by taking slow motion camera footage through the scope view so I could see if the rifle moves during the lock time cycle, we don't really have the equipment to do this though.
hey nick always liked your innovation waited for the first srs a1 covert bought the MDR bought the SRS A2 covert will buy the WLVRN when i can would love to see how far you can go with the accuracy of the WLVRN
Thanks for the detailed breakdown on the key variables impacting accuracy and some of their trade offs. I am very interested to see what you can do to the WLVRN to improve its accuracy and would like to see an update on your rifle build. Personally I want a 20in DMR version of the WLVRN since it takes advantage of the compact length and light weight of the rifle. One more accuracy question; what impact does the length of the gas system and location of the gas port have on accuracy? Regarding your next video concepts; after accuracy my next concern area for the WLVRN is its reliability in realistic and adverse conditions.
Gas block location does cause more vertical zero change when shooting 16” vs 20” barrels. Btw I dropped two videos with WLVRN accuracy results one this week and one last.
Congratulations on the very enlightening video. Lots of precious information. Success only comes, among several factors, through hard work, dedication and commitment. Thanks for sharing your discoveries!
I would be hard impressed to see @DesertTech actually manufacture a far less than $1k budget bullpup. which I know thats not what Desert Tech specializes in but it would still be nice to be able to get a good reliable bullpup for under $1k
@@DesertTechUT 9 holes review probably is hosting some of the best firearm review show around the internet and one of the host is called Henry and his cousin is shown from time to time but He probably is busy around the eastern Europe right now lol
This was a FABULOUS video!! Seriously, well done. The only part that was left out....was shooters SKILLSET! Which is likely THE most important factor in accuracy! I have buddies who claim their rifles are sub MOA but they shoot 4 MOA with that rifle. If your skillset is not up to par no amount of match grade ammo, match grade barrels and polished hammers are going to help you. Side note: I would like to see accuracy testing with an OVER THE BORE bipod like the GRS which is nice and heavy. It allows the rifle to stay under the axis of the bipod and gravity automatically removes any cant.
100% agree with your comment on marksmanship skills. I briefly mentioned a few aspects here and there in this video but it would require an entire video on just marksmanship to do it justice. I haven't had a pleasure of shooting with the GRS bipod but I have the Elite Iron and It makes a world of difference in stability for sure.
@@DesertTechUT Pssshhh Elite Iron look incredible!!! SILLY expensive lol but built like a TANK!! If I WERE going to pay nearly $1K for a bipod Id get the Elite Iron - it really looks amazing. There is a precision shooter in Australia I believe, (4AW I believe his channel is called) I am sure you have seen his videos around he shoots over 3000k yards, he makes a cool "around the bore" set up using Atlas legs. Another crazyyy expensive set up but pretty cool if it fits your rifle.
I have no doubt my 16" HK 416 has a long lock time since it has an enormous hammer but it shoots really well and now after LW barrel near moa (average of multiple 5 round groups) with handloads. The overall average is around 0.8moa but I just got my recipe finished and I think I might get under it (0.65 to 0.75) as I noticed the longer I load them the better they shoot. This is with a baffled silencer. It does make a stratch to each bullet but I cannot tell a difference between mag and single feed. Would like to see your test results on that. It also has a slightly rounded piston end and rounded counter face on the bcg which you have found not optimum. I guess it has slack somewhere else in the piston to allow free movement of the bcg. I have the 13" midwest handguard to keep the atlas bipod front but I can still make changes to them during firing. I have handled probably an SRS in 338 and it was awesome. Compared to TRG it is pointable with free hand but shooting has gone from improvised supports to tripod and the weight / balance point near the shooter does not matter so much at all.
Thanks for the positive comments on the SRS rifle. I have only shot the HK 416 in FA up close and personal and not for precision. I have shot the HK MR762A1 for precision and it is a tack driver. HK deals with the piston harmonics by making the barrel a fat 1" all the way up to the gas block which eliminates the piston disturbance but it also makes the rifle 2 lbs heavier than the WLVRN too.
Thanks for the insight! This really makes sense, good luck I had the Lothar made with the same contour. Here in Finland DT guns are very rare but have also good reputation among those who know about them. Guns have always been going to lighter direction but I see no problem carrying a heavier gun with large optic, they are very soft shooting and pointable too when you train to them. I am on the search for semiauto 6.5CM and just realized this WLVRN fits the bill quite well. I would however like thicker barrel and maybe longer too. 39" gun is the one I am customed to and tripod shooting (I use mainly hog) would probably be easier with balance point more in the front so the gun is more stable. At least I would think so? I would really like to know what kind of sling solutions fit for bullpup and how it slings having never carried one. I do have FX Wildcat but it lacks the weight and sling mounting options :) I think by putting on short barrels (for bullpup) you are playing their game. One of the best sides of using bullpup is getting that longer barrel for that standard gun length. This is important when maximizing what the system can do. A 6.5CM going 200fps more is like another cartridge. With Finnish handloading culture that means 400 fps :D We have a lot of tasks where we would like to go with lighter and compact guns (and ammo). Better speed gives more leeway in unknown distances shooting and able to shoot heavier bullets with acceptable velocity, gaining better wind performance and energy on target.
Great video. I always wondered why you guys didn't just put a lighter trigger on the MDR as you obviously know how to make them. I love hearing about the thought process behind some of this. Some other video ideas: Marksman Rifle: I think the marksman rifle with the monopod and a longer 20-22" barrel or something would be pretty awesome. It could also be interesting to tie in a stupid topic here but manual of arms. I have heard that one of the reasons militaries haven't liked bullpup rifles is because it makes Drill and Ceremony Manual of Arms impossible. Is this true? If so, I am assuming that a marksman rifle with a 20-22" barrel and a suppressor would be long enough that maybe the military wouldn't consider it an issue. Maybe get someone who knows what they are doing to actually show how the manual of arms would be with it. The Utah National Guard probably still has a school at Camp Williams (They did when I went through it) where they teach Drill and Ceremony for funerals. It could be interesting to get a guest show that aspect off using the marksman rifle. CQB rifle: If you have the leeway to do custom rifles show me a CQB rifle with around a 12" barrel like you do on the micron. HOWEVER, have it chambered in 8.6 Blackout! After that throw a good suppressor on it and show how it could be in actual CQB operations. You don't need that long of a barrel for CQB and a suppressed subsonic round could be really good for noise discipline even after the first round has been fired. Barrel rifling: You mentioned that the twist rate for the scar made it inaccurate for the ammunition you were using. How does the twist rate do that on a rifle? Also for the rifling. grooved rifling vs polygonal rifling vs button rifling. I have heard that polygonal rifling is more accurate as it provides a better seal and has less bullet deformation. Why isn't it used everywhere? I am assuming it is due to manufacturing difficulties/rate but I honestly don't know. Material choice: Why did you chose which materials? Which parts are plasitic vs stamped metal vs forged aluminum vs hammer forged steel? What do those terms even mean? What are the alternatives and why would you consider them? Factory tour: What is the process for making these things? What machines do you use? How long does it take? As a bonus I am sure that some people in the comments of that video could even offer ways you could improve your manufacturing. Marine/Navy Seal version: This one is a lot more of a stretch but what makes a rifle that those two groups would use? Would you need to seal against water? Use different materials? Would the 8.6 Blackout also be a good round here? I have heard that the faster rounds don't do well in water but could a 8.6 BLK be ideal in a jungle environment with a lot of water and minimal visible range? Quatro: I know you have said you can't which is why I have left it for last but a quatro version of the WLVRN would be sick.
@@DesertTechUT Ok I had an interesting idea. It isn't 100% unique but I think how I would do it might be. It could also get rid of the issue with making the WLVRN Quatro Compatible. What if instead of the mechanical hammer fired system you have on the weapon you switched to an electrical one? This means that there would be no need for a mechanical linkage from the trigger to the hammer. You would just need a couple of wires. You potentially could even change to a different fire system. Maybe it could be more striker fire like instead of hammer fired. You would obviously need some way to generate power and to store power for this system. To do that I would use a small supercapacitor in the buttstock. A supercapacitor is going to be much longer lived than a battery supporting many charge cycles so that is what I would recommend. It also should be able to hold a charge for several days to a few months. Then for generation you could simply use a very small electric motor housed in the handle that is is mechanically attached to the bolt using a reciprocating gear mechanism. This would ensure that you wouldn't need to have your rifle "charged" as the action of chambering a round would be sufficient to charge the capacitor to power the firing mechanism. The safety would also function as an on off switch to electrically disconnect the circuit. Now with the round chambered pulling the trigger would simply send a signal to the electrical actuator operating a striker fired pin. You could even go further on the trigger and make the trigger easily adjustable meaning you could allow users to apply different trigger pulls to their rifles as desired. This really wouldn't be that hard to put together as a proof of concept as it doesn't require any novel devices. All of the things I mentioned are easily acquired. The hardest part about this system would be making sure it could withstand repeated use and abuse. Conformal coatings would be needed for all of the electronics and the the robustness of the materials would be paramount since many electronic devices are usually made from plastic. I really do think this concept could work nicely though. If you do end up making this I would love to be able to see it. I am only like 20 minutes from your offices.
I have both the original MDR and the MDRX. It's nice to see each iteration's improvements, most noticeably in the trigger. I'd like to see a video showing off the new tungsten color with tungsten blk lbl handguard. And although the two tone color looks good, do you have any plans to make full tungsten option with the lower half of the chassis being tungsten as well? Also something to consider, having the option to purchase upper and lower chassis pieces separately? Buying a full gun is kinda pricey, but i have put together several AR15s piece by piece by buying the sections one month at a time.
We haven't considered selling the uppers and lowers separately, I can try to make that an option on our website in the future. We don't have plans for a tungsten lower right now mostly just because we didn't think to do it. I wouldn't hold my breath though because we are trying to keep our product sku's and to as few as possible.
Best they could probably do is maybe a 13.7ish barrel. The gas port is too far forward to get enough dwell time for something like a 300 blk to work well
@@blaeshoflen8663 okay fine, 24". 26" is what most competition shooters use, so that's why I picked it . Plus it would really highlight the space efficiency of a bullpup. Being the same length as a 20" AR.
Question for Nick : Let's say, on your auto platforms, you wanted to squeeze all you can out of a cartridge capability. Let's say you wanted the maximum effective range out of it. Let's say, going this way you had to get ride of any kind of gas operated system. Now, because you still want to be able to switch caliber and muzzles device, you discover that you can't go with all kind of mechanical delayed system. Ok, now let's say you think about an action using inertia amplifier lever and adjustable additional mass to adjust between calibers and muzzle devices... What would you think would be the downsides of this kind of system except being a little gassy, for the shooter, and dirty for the action yet super reliable nevertheless ?
@DesertTechUT In short, what do you think are the bad things if you used a Famas style action in your MDR/MDRX/WLVRN/SABERTOOTH platforms ? Knowing all the good things coming from it's use (even Fw Eject would have been pretty reliable...)
@DesertTechUT Tried and Proven ? They are known to reach farther and be more accurate than gas operated systems for the exact same cartridge, aren't they?
@DesertTechUT Famas: designed at the end of 60s, shown in 1973, adopted in 1978, known for being a 1.4576 MOA right out of the box since the very beginning... 1960 system using 2024 tech... why not?
ar15s (colt, dd, etc), aug, sig spear, scar, tavor, bren, ak family, arx and all the others you can put your hands on. Use the same attention you used for the accuracy testing and it will be something to watch with extreme interest
listening carefully to your very appreciated words releases one question: DI is most likely the better choice for accuracy. And can be made as reliable as piston gas systems. Might have an even more soft shooting experience. Why then not jumping to DI? Is it due to the lenght of the gas system to operate fine? Great video, would love to own a WLVRN, no dealers in AUSTRIA anymore. Maybe you can improve that as well.
Piston reduces gasses in the face and in a bullpup form that is appreciated, it also runs cooler at the chamber and keeps the chamber clean. Reduced cleaning and less gas in the eyes are the two things I like best about pistons. Plus the US Military is migrating over to piston systems which mean everyone and their dog now thinks pistons are the best thing ever, even if they aren't and perception is more important than reality most times which is really dumb in my book.
@@DesertTechUT thanks a lot for your reply and the very honest and time consuming content you share with your community. That is very much appreciated and outstanding. To be honest I was hoping your answer somehow matches expectations and it did! For me as an AUSTRIAN citizen I´ve been trained with bullpups in our military service. Since then (long time ago🙂) of course I experienced your named advantages and my own AUG proofs them all. Barrel Change as a bonus is done in seconds. Tried to get hands on the MDR but hat no luck with the operation ended in sending it back due to lots of quality issues. Now as the next generation has the maturity it becomes more interesting again. I´d love to have one in 308 again. May I ask you to check dealer availability for AUSTRIA?
In 50 years that one prototype rifle with the monopod and match barrel will be in a massive bidding war between some collectors for eye watering amounts of money.
How about some NATO style enviromental and durability testing?
Dirt, sand, mud and water, maybe a drop test?
We have video of most of these, stay tuned for the sand and mud test which should post this week.
If you guys made a dmr edition of this rifle, with lighter trigger and the mantis handguard, that would ve very interesting imo.
This is EXACTLY what I'm looking for. Something with a slightly heavier 20-24" barrel
Agreed! I am already happy with my MDRX FE but would be cool to get a WLVRN DMR to go with it. I like the current trigger weight of the MDRX for its intended purpose. Dedicated DMR with a little extra refinement would be amazing.
-lighter fixed weight match trigger and trigger work to make it as crisp as possible
-mantis hand guard out of the box
-heavier barrel profile, or whatever profile works best to improve accuracy the most
-built in SRS style monopod, if you are looking to be the most accurate it’s hard to beat, as long as it easy to stow away
-adjustable cheek riser and buttplate
I am interested in Desert Tech and their product offerings. Curious to see how they impact the firearms market in the long term.
As much as I think I know about guns, someone always comes along and shows me how much I hadn’t considered
I will be using 1 of your semi autos in the 1moa all day challenge.
You have also vindicated me.."Supressors Increase Accuracy" Ive been saying that in my 308 Mdrx
Yes..Show us your super match Wlvrn!
Good luck with your challenge, it sounds like great fun!
@DesertTechUT Thankyou! I will have fun anyway. It's really hard to shoot Moa for 10 shots.
if you want to do the 1moa all day challenge, I Highly recommend you get a custom blank chambered to your specifications and handload some tuned ammo for that gun.
I would do the same for my accuracy international in that challenge fwiw. I see a place that offer exactly what you'd need if you have the coin for an 1100$ ready to go barrel. I may well do that one day.
@codyshields3797 I have no intention of doing that challenge with a custom barrel or handloads (I have acess to both).
Factory rifle and ammo are how I want to play (Production vs Custom).
Will it be moa all day. Probably not..But it'll be a good data point for that challenge..I never said "I" could shoot MOA all day :p
If you want to play, the challenge is active until August.
@@DesertTechUT, where's the 30-06 that takes BAR Magazines since 30-06 Rifles pre exists female voting rights therefore it's immune to female opinions. Did you know that 30-06 rifles can be used to illustrate the degradation of the 2nd Amendment.
😎.
Glad to see you offer California compliant options I am planning to get wlvern in 308 soon
When someone is willing to admit the weaknesses of their product along with the strengths it's says something about them. Thank you for chasing innovation and improvement. Really enjoyed the vid.
Would love to see more on the vs. series. How does the Wolverine compare on mean rounds between stoppages? Time to change calibers? Accuracy? Etc
Great vid. Lots of good info. I really like that you highlight what you know works in the rifle, especially the 308.
Thanks!
I would love to see a heavy fluted profile barrel for the Wolverine. Especially since the weight of the platform was dropped.
Any chance you could release a version that comes with the integrated bipod handguard? So I don't have to swap it out myself.
Maybe in the future, currently we are keeping our products sku's as low as possible on the rifles to keep things simple for dealers.
I would love to see an MDR/WLVRN lower with build in monopod. Excellent video that was incredibly informative. I have definitely found the extended Mantis handguard makes shooting groups much more consistent. Would be pretty interesting to offer the WLVRN as a DMR with a few extra steps like you discussed to refine accuracy.
SUPER interested to see you making a match variant. Great idea.
Do you think the MDR/MDRX FE system had any impact on accuracy? I would think the bullet would already be long gone by the time the FE mechanism actuates? But would be cool to know.
Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad you enjoyed the information! I'll share the results of what I build, and share it's performance. I love the mantis bipod handguards the are the best!
In their Rivalry series (shooting all variants of Mdrx Se and Fe) there was major difference in accuracy.
@@DesertTechUT, i still love my DT MDRX with the Mantis handguard.
Best product ive ever use, thank you❤!
I like to see a video with the 20inc .308 WLVRN and AP ammo like the M993 or M61 against body armour and plates!
The WLVRN can show how effektive a short bullpub with or without supressor can fight against armoured oponments😊
Yes it had an impact on accuracy because the extra gas required to reliably operate the FE system increased barrel movement and we saw that the higher we set the gas the less accurate the rifle became on the FE MDR rifles.
@@sherlockholmes5087 Ap works in a bullpup
You have some of the most informative and open information of any firearms mfgr on the internet. This how you gain interest and potential customers. Great job!!
Thanks!
Agreed. I haven’t seen any of these technical hurdles addressed by gun makers on RUclips. It’s one of those - it’s harder than it looks if you want to reach the top levels of accuracy.
Hey, Nick, you are probably the most available REAL small arms specialist/designer/manufacturer we have here on youtube and you look pretty self-critical and interested in the discussion about the future of small arms, that said, I feel like you are the only guy who could get your hands on a rm277, bring it side to side with your sabertooth and then make a super video about bullpups and the military, your views between the tech you choose to your rifle and what they choose to theirs, why do you think they both failed the ngsw, and anything else you find proper to this kind of discussion.
As you mentioned in the video regarding the aspects you dislike about the AR-15, things rejected by the military, no matter how good they were or why they were rejected, tend to fade into oblivion, and I really like both projects and wanted to know more about them, specially if it came from a guy like you.
I will try to make this happen. I think the RM277 is pretty awesome for shootability even though it compromises in other areas to achieve it. It is very cool.
What are some of the best accuracy you have seen out of the 308 wlvrn and what ammo? Would you recommend 168gr or 175gr?
Best Accuracy I've seen to date in the best 308 WLVRN barrel I have shot is 3 to 4 shots in .25" with the 5th opening it up to .75" (unsuppressed btw). We are seeing some variation in the 308 barrels though and some are 1 to 1.75" unsuppressed. I will be doing a full accuracy report next week.
I'm impressed with the trigger pull on the Trek 22 chassis I got for my boy.
The linkage was designed with a leverage advantage to reduce the trigger pull to be less than the original trigger is.
What will you be doing to improve your semi auto rifles reliability, both the MDRX and the new WLVRN have had major issues which puts people like me off from buying them since its such an pricey rifle.
Like what?
Im aware of one RUclips video where the magazines were falling out.
Its pretty easy to fix too, it would be like complaining that your AR15 gas rings were misaligned at the factory.
Just fix it.
Major for both? So far only 1 reviewer is showing mag drop issues.It got addressed.
Everyone else with a 308 Wlvrn has made it through without dropping a mag.
The Mdrx is quite functional today vs where it was. That what was mostly show in this accuracy video.
The mag drop issue was due to the mag release spring being cut in half. We do not know who cut the spring but we replaced it with a full length spring and it resolved it.
If you sell Cali compliant versions, maybe just create a closed handguard without any mlok slots. European exports such as Germany need a hadguard with no "thermal venting holes" because that's considered a machine gun feature. Only the bottom row of mlok is fine since that's not the direction heat goes. And maybe the access slot for the adjustable gas block.
I think the gun ad it is now, is easy to bring into the state with a middleman service ( like new frontier) to make it featureless
What’s the most expensive way to get a featureless product?
I am pretty sure that you could make a more accurate semi-auto rifle.
1. Striker fire in a semi-auto doesn't seem impossible. It could reduce lock time, and it could also reduce the movement caused by the pull of the trigger.
2. Putting your monopod in the stock semi-auto might need some redesign.
3. My understanding is that it is possible to make the gun safer on a drop by making the center of gravity of the trigger a point of pivot so that the trigger doesn't rotate on a drop.
4. My understanding would lead me to believe that the AR-15 gas system would have less impact on the barrel because of the gas because I think the bullet would leave the barrel before the movement of the bolt carrier. If not, I suppose there is a gas system with less impact on the barrel. Inertia-driven system?
5. A wild idea would be a magazine that doesn't exert pressure on the bolt carrier and releases the bullet at the end of the travel of the bolt, like the Mek interceptor crossbow magazine. You can see the feature at 2:40 in the Joerg Sprave video on the Mek interceptor in english.
6. A match-grade barrel and match ammo seem like a no-brainer.
7. You are Desert Tech, so why not a bullpup?
There are several striker fired rifles from days of old but they have really heavy strikers that would perform worse than the hammer. I think it’s possible to make a better one though.
Much appreciate the emphasis on accuracy, I'd like a follow up video on materials and reliability in adverse conditions and overall longevity.
thanks for the feedback!
@@DesertTechUT yes (Nick?), you're welcome. I think you guys would kill the competition if you put the emphasis on reliability and solid machining-internally. are you guys hiring any engineers?
Yes this is Nick, we are actually looking to hire another production programmer right now.@@StoicBerserker
@@DesertTechUT nice, thanks Nick, if I were in your area I'd jump on it but my family is in AZ. I'm also an active member of NSW and would like to test the WLVRN as I run drills every week and enjoy long range as well.
I had the 2023 MDRX and my bolt had three pieces chip off between two bolts on my first (waited about a week for a new bolt) and second trip to the range. Parts of the lugs on both and another of the rear supporting lugs. Also, my sling came undone the rifle dropped about 2 feet and the mag release lever snapped in half.
My questions are: Are the bolts one solid homogenous material or is it pieced together somehow? Are some of the parts that were cast forged now being milled because of these issues?
I look forward to the mud/sand test video very much and hope you can dive into theory on reliability where it counts.. thanks again for the dm from the top. I'll brag about it! Ha
@@DesertTechUT please respond when you have time
That SRS lock time is seriously impressive. Only thing that i've seen that is faster is the austrian Rößler Titan at 1.6ms and the Anschütz 2000 at 1.5ms lock time.
The McMillan Alias was supposed to have a 1ms lock time Anschütz trigger but i've never seen that confirmed and the rifle kinda flopped.
Integral suppressors on WLVRN and SRS please. Also how do integral suppressors affect accuracy compared to traditional?
Integral suppressors generally port holes in the barrel to slow velocity down to achieve subsonic velocity. An integral suppressor on the full power rifle caliber would really just be mounted more permanently and accomplish the same as a detachable can but doesn't have a chance to come loose like a detachable can.
I’d rather have a detach in case I wanted to cross state lines. Plenty of over barrel suppressors that would work well and fill the same role.
I agree@@blaeshoflen8663
I like the integral can idea for 300blk specifically, if you cant make a 300blk micron to work. It would allow you to use a high back pressure can to aid in cycling subs, and keep the OAL at 16in.
Definitely want to see the end results of your tinkering! Especially the way you rig up a rear mono pod.
You got it!
I'd like some clarification about 24:30. The ruger sfar (?) is listed as a piston gun but to my knowledge it is a DI
Ruger was piston operated and the handguard was touching the barrel on one side so there isn’t any reason for it to shoot good. It was an anomaly we couldn’t figure out.
Did anyone else hear the smoke detector low battery?
A man of the people~
But he's not black....
I think I'm the only one who can't hear it but 25 years of magnum shooting has taken a toll on my hearing.
As per usual, very cool content y’all are putting out. I really enjoy learning the nitty gritty regarding firearms design & function.
My biggest question, & I think it’s on topic: do y’all have any update incoming on accuracy updates available to MDRX owners? Particularly a piston/op-rod upgrade from the concave/convex interface to flat/flat, & the JB Weld procedure for the MDRX barrel extension?
Thanks in advance.
I will work on this next week. :D
@@DesertTechUT u rock. Thx
Does DesertTech measure group size in severe duty situations where the shooter might be firing multiple magazines in a short amount of time? It would be interesting to compare “benchrest” accuracy to “firefight” accuracy when the weapon heats up and metal components start moving with the heat.
It's not a particularly realistic/interesting scenario though as it's precisely the case where you absolutely don't care about minute accuracy.
We fire full magazine until we reach 25 rounds at a precision fire pace. So no we aren’t cooking the system much in the testing of accuracy.
@@guillaumeausset8254 the German military seemed to care about problems with the G36 having accuracy issues when the weapon became hot and suffered from decreased accuracy. In combat situations having an accurate rifle is an important consideration if you are going to lug a piece of metal into a fight it should function as intended, hot or cold.
Who offers match barrels for the WLVRN? Also +1 on a monopod capable lower, and taking AR grips would be great too.
No one offers match barrels yet..Wlvrn has barely been out.
+1 on the monopod..There is space for it in the chasis
The Dt owner has said he won't do Ar15 grip compatibility
ES Tactical will spin you one up.
@@DesertTechUT Es Tactical is doing Wlvrn Barrels?
Yes Jeff (coldboremiracle) has already ordered a 6 ARC barrel from him. @@Odinforever2000
@@DesertTechUT Oh! Thankyou. I'll head over meyow.
So much info every time. I'll watch it again for sure. I'm very interested in both 300 blackout and a 6 max build, I loved the CBM videos, awesome info as well. Love the 6 arc and would like more of your views on 6 max vs 6 arc build.
I plan on a 300blk vid once I get my kit.
We will definitely be playing with the new 6mm cartridges and share our journey along the way.
How about an accurized 6ARC DMR Wolverine.
I remember the figure 8 and u-shaped technique from college pistol too! Thanks for the throwback 😃
Great sharing of knowledge. Thanks! How about a vid that shows the accuracy evaluation for the Wolverine like you just showed on that batch of other rifles.
6 inches
it was really 4.5"
We know, Nick, we know...
...we've all added a few inches one day or the other
Yup. 👍🏻
The WLVRN seems like it would be perfect in an SPR kind of roll. Any possibility of a .224 Valkyrie or 6MM arc conversion in the future?
We aren't currently working on any new calibers because we are focused on the production launch and ensuring rifles and parts meet the quality and performance we and you demand. We will make more offerings in the future but not for this year.
"And then god created the remington bolt-action rifle to fight the dinosaurs, and the homosexuals"
We want a small frame wlvern for the smaller 556 6 arc 300bo 6max 6x45.. cartridges! Get that bad boy lighted ever more! I know alot of people who would rather save a pound or 2 instead of being able to switch from 556 to 308.. its like getting a ar10 an shooting 556 or getting a long action bolt action rifle an shooting 6.5 grendel... most people will never even switch calibers.. keep the large frame! But we need a lighter more nimble small frame! 🎉
How much lighter? What weight should the rifle be in 223?
Thanks for the feedback.
That's a great video! Love the WLVRN so far. Any thoughts on putting out a match barrel?
Right now we are focused on a successful launch and ensure the quality and performance of production rifles meet everyones expectations. We aren't going to entertain any more conversion kits until next year.
Would love to see the performance of wlvrn 300 blk suppressed switching between subs and supers and what gas settings you need with and without flow through cans. Great video by the way.
Great suggestion!
DESERT TECH hey what about 20 inch barrel wlvrn with a bayonet lug that would be awesome for a steel spike bayonet for hunting or knife bayonet for well just in case😂
We made some for a foreign military I’ll share a video about them.
@DesertTechUT YES THAT WOULD BE AMAZING i love 20 inch barrels for 556 but m16 just isn't the best for clearing tight hallways and rooms but a wlvrn with 20 inch and bayonet, dang that would be nicein stead of jabbing with barrel a little stabby stab or slice and dice 🤣
The one gun was the most accurate... 😂😂
🤓
better change that smoke alarm battery
Enjoyed the video. As a video request, it would be great to see a side by side deep dive comparison of what the differences are between the Sabertooth and WLVRN internally and externally. As per your analysis on other videos, go over the reasons behind the differences.
We can do this.
I’ve seen DT rifles in stores but found the platforms confusing so I moved on to purchase guns from other makers. For example, they had a bunch of rifles with no barrels - just the chassis for sale. I guess this was a mix and match kind of deal. I’ve also steered clear of bull pups from negative experiences with autoloaders - I have an old bushmaster M17s that has: crappy trigger, weird weight distribution, and fills your face with gas. All together a bad shooting experience. I suppose the bolt action platforms would avoid some of these problems. Anyway, an overview of the product lines would be helpful for me. I’m in your target market; I enjoy long range shooting, retired with a budget that accommodates your brand positioning (ie price points), and interest in better weapons technology. Your video raised the interest by educating the audience on why features are required to address often overlooked challenges to achieve accuracy with autoloaders.
Thank you for sharing your experience and perspective. They’re definitely is a big education piece as well as obstacles to overcome. We don’t sell the rifle chassis separate from the barrel conversion kits anymore for the reasons that you mentioned had confused you very good feedback for sure.
Very informative video
Great Info, Im excited to get my WLVRN out soon and experience this rifle. All my add-ons should be in this week.
great!
Wow Fascinating! I've heard that boult action rifles are more accurate. but I never understood why. Thank you so much for explaining this.
Your very welcome.
I always thought that suppressors do increase accuracy but i couldn't tell why, at first i thought its wrong since the barrel is longer and thus less stiff making the barrel wiggle/whip more. perhaps a heavier and shorter suppressor would be even better?
I think along with stripping the gasses away from the bullet the can pulls the barrel forward and reduces vibrations
Another great learning session - thank you again for doing these.
Glad you like them!
Awaiting the results
Semiautomatic bullpup
So if we put suppressors on the other rifles. The mdr falls back to the 6th place? Sad.
Yup all rifles benefit from silencers. 😄
Very good video, it really looks like a longer gas system and a heavy barrel would really help the 308 and possibly 6.5.
You mentioned an MDRx accuracy kit/service update in the live stream for last week, I don't think we have seen it. Could we get an update on that project?
This week
@@DesertTechUT I look forward to it!
Good talk bro. I love these videos.
Thanks for the great feedback!
Will I be able to order a match barrel for the wolverine? In 308 or 277?
Not from DT but you can buy a gunsmith kit from DT for the WLVRN and it comes with a print that will show your local smith how to spin up a match barrel for you.
Would loading your own ammo help, if you optimize case length, shoulder height, neck length, ogive placement, etc, to match ammo to the rifle's particular chamber? I'd think so.
I hand load..But what about the folks who haven't put that kind of investment into that hobby?
Yes it would help for sure.
Dream rifle.
Man a guaranteed 1 MOA from factory super match 6.5 CM with an extended mantis hand guard would fly off the shelves.
EDIT: love the videos and the openness
Thanks!
We achieved 1/2 moa with the stock 20” barrels and just posted a video about it.
Am wondering if either the MDR or WLVRN platforms were tested in a DI configuration. Was DI ever considered in the design process?
When listening to guys with math and statistics skills. The smallest sampling of shots fired for reliable statistical power is suggested to be 20-30 rounds. If you know any statisticians it would be nice have them validate your data for statistical power. Bryan Zolnikov on RUclips has legit skills to do that.
You mean to calculate statical probability of a projected accuracy threshold? Are you looking for a confidence interval for group size?
@@DesertTechUT Your question is too detailed and mathematical. All I remember from Zolnikovs tests is he uses ANOVA + mabye one other and then validates the data with a power analysis. I think Power has to do with determinig wheather your sample was big enough for the probability data to be valid.
Keith Glasscock at Winning in the Wind also uses ANOVA and other statistics for proving things but his channel is way less statistical in nature.
I’ve got your SRS A1 and HTI, I’d love to see a heavier (and longer) barrel with integral bipod in the handguard and a 1:10 twist NOT the 1:11 that I got with my SRS barrel that I thought was going to be 1:10.
What did you have in mind for each platform on barrel lengths and calibers?
@@DesertTechUT I’m too old for runnin’ and gunin’ so I would like to see 22” on both .308 and 6.5 CM or since it’s a bullpup even a 24” would be shorter than normal rifles
Show how accurate that armalite M153GN18 behind you!
Very!!
@@DesertTechUT I know cuz I own one too they are on sale from psa for only 899... That's a steal for the build quality and all you get in them! I'm saving up for one of yours next hopefully I can find a good deal on them.
You have a lot of dead space in the buttstock of the WLVRN, you can put a cheater pod that operates the same was as extending the front bipod legs that slide down out of the buttstock. pinch and pull down. it can also be isolated from the rest of the rifle with internal molding.
Agreed, initially we left the cavity for future battery space but when the power rail systems died off nothing ever came to fruition.
@@DesertTechUT Oh that is very interesting. I have had the same thought that that is where I would put the battery for power rail. I wonder why power rail systems haven't seen wide adoption. I am assuming it is probably around cost and/or patent issues.
They aren't a good idea because they don't offer more than just separate modules. Especially when you put everything in one module then it negates the need for the rail.
First…. To leave a comment 😂
Wow, next how to improve selective fire rifle accuracy 😂
That will be coming in the future actually LOL. Full auto is too fun not to perfect!
Oof @@DesertTechUT
🆘️ You need to show the working internal schematics of the rifle in a 3D model while you explain in detail. ( Ergonomics )
😊😊😊😊😊
i was very sad as i see that your wlvern looses the mags while shooting ... so i have to wait again 2-3 years more ...
The spring in that guys rifle was cut in half my friend. We replaced it with a new uncut spring and it functions fine.
@@DesertTechUT oh .... thanks! good news!
Yes, I want to see what your accurization does to the wolverine please
On a rewatch im noticing a little something there in the top left on the wall there.
How about you show off that monolithic MDR beast?
I have a video on that rifle, here you go. ruclips.net/video/qj5vaFYIsOc/видео.html
@@DesertTechUTNo disrespect, but im fairly certain Nick never mentioned the rifle on the wall when he was showing off the DT NGSW submission.
The rifle on the wall is the NGSW rifle it just doesn't have the power rail handguard attached to it.@@JohnBrowningsGhost
See i really really want to get a wolverine but the handguard not holding zero for laser aiming devices really kills it for me😭
When the sabertooth handguards come out then that will resolve that issue 100%. They will be available to purchase as an accessory option for mdr and wlvrn owners.
@@DesertTechUT is there any idea when they would be out?
Around the end of summer.
Good vid. thx
Your welcome!
Great video!! I didn’t know half of that before!! Please show us your accurized WLVRN
Will do!
I’m still holding out hope that BLK LBL will release an UPDATE to their Mantis that follows the improvements they made for the AR-15/10 Handguard. That would allow cans to fit inside the diameter since the 2nd gen legs do not cant. It’s a compromise, but well worth it for a Patrol or Battle rifle like the Wolverine.
I would love to see the Prototype DTSS Reflex, Flow-Through suppressor you made for the NGSW come to market. And to be matched with that BLK LBL Mantis 2.0.
The last piece of the Desert Tech Halo Battle Rifle will be the Electronic ScopeSwitch from Antimatter. They are about 10 minutes away from your factory in West Valley, and they are big fans of the platforms you work on.
I too would love an updated BLK LBL as I grow really tired of removing muzzle devices to changes out barrels, and I hate haven't to take the handguard of to change barrels too. I will nag Dalton at BLK LBL but only time will tell if he decides to do one or not. I'll have to visit Antimatter and play with one. I didn't know they were in Utah.
Nice video❤,
Please can you give Garant Thumb an WLVRN for a crazy Video.
And is youre Sabertooth less accurate than the WLVRN because of he is fully automatic? And how much is the difference
BATF compliance is the only difference and the handguards are different but that’s it.
DI vs piston video, you say here that either can be just as reliable but the fact is DI has less barrel harmonics so a video going over the differences in detail and why you picked piston for the MDR/WLVRN would be helpful!
And you mentioned potentially doing it before but again, a full auto recoil control video would be cool, specifically with a 308 Sabertooth
16” barrel
And a basic flash hider rather than a brake
Thanks for the suggestions we will add these to the list.
I may be wrong but I don't think the lock time have a visible effect on accuracy. Why? An eye blink is between 100-150ms ; in even 10ms, 10 times less than a fast blink, I don't think we move a notch.
It's been 10 years now that I'm working in mechanical engineering and I'm often looking at my caliper to check if the thickness of material I want to put looks ok or not.
It's easy to get lost in scale.
I was wanting to measure this by taking slow motion camera footage through the scope view so I could see if the rifle moves during the lock time cycle, we don't really have the equipment to do this though.
hey nick always liked your innovation waited for the first srs a1 covert bought the MDR bought the SRS A2 covert will buy the WLVRN when i can would love to see how far you can go with the accuracy of the WLVRN
Thanks!
Thanks for the detailed breakdown on the key variables impacting accuracy and some of their trade offs. I am very interested to see what you can do to the WLVRN to improve its accuracy and would like to see an update on your rifle build. Personally I want a 20in DMR version of the WLVRN since it takes advantage of the compact length and light weight of the rifle.
One more accuracy question; what impact does the length of the gas system and location of the gas port have on accuracy?
Regarding your next video concepts; after accuracy my next concern area for the WLVRN is its reliability in realistic and adverse conditions.
Gas block location does cause more vertical zero change when shooting 16” vs 20” barrels. Btw I dropped two videos with WLVRN accuracy results one this week and one last.
Congratulations on the very enlightening video. Lots of precious information. Success only comes, among several factors, through hard work, dedication and commitment. Thanks for sharing your discoveries!
Thank you kindly!
Another incredible video. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge.
My pleasure!
I would be hard impressed to see @DesertTech actually manufacture a far less than $1k budget bullpup. which I know thats not what Desert Tech specializes in but it would still be nice to be able to get a good reliable bullpup for under $1k
Keltec is king of budget bullpups. Dt is aiming for the stars..Maybe Smith and Wesson will copy Keltecs homework a 3rd time :P
Desert tech, aug, and rdb are all I've got left. For my collection. Maybe a ps90 too. 😅
Bullpups are just better! :D
Your videos are always so informative Nick. Love my HTI and soon to get the SRS.
Thanks! SRS is an amazing rifle and I love ringing steel at a mile with my 338LM. :D
So educational. Sad that Im Hungarian and I will never hold any rifle that desert tech offering here 😅
Come to Vegas, they have machine gun rentals there. lol
Summon the Cousin Henry 🤣
Oo that would be awesome
I don't know what this means you may need to educate me.
@@DesertTechUT
9 holes review probably is hosting some of the best firearm review show around the internet
and one of the host is called Henry
and his cousin is shown from time to time
but He probably is busy around the eastern Europe right now lol
This was a FABULOUS video!! Seriously, well done.
The only part that was left out....was shooters SKILLSET!
Which is likely THE most important factor in accuracy! I have buddies who claim their rifles are sub MOA but they shoot 4 MOA with that rifle. If your skillset is not up to par no amount of match grade ammo, match grade barrels and polished hammers are going to help you.
Side note: I would like to see accuracy testing with an OVER THE BORE bipod like the GRS which is nice and heavy. It allows the rifle to stay under the axis of the bipod and gravity automatically removes any cant.
100% agree with your comment on marksmanship skills. I briefly mentioned a few aspects here and there in this video but it would require an entire video on just marksmanship to do it justice. I haven't had a pleasure of shooting with the GRS bipod but I have the Elite Iron and It makes a world of difference in stability for sure.
@@DesertTechUT Pssshhh Elite Iron look incredible!!! SILLY expensive lol but built like a TANK!!
If I WERE going to pay nearly $1K for a bipod Id get the Elite Iron - it really looks amazing.
There is a precision shooter in Australia I believe, (4AW I believe his channel is called) I am sure you have seen his videos around he shoots over 3000k yards, he makes a cool "around the bore" set up using Atlas legs. Another crazyyy expensive set up but pretty cool if it fits your rifle.
I have no doubt my 16" HK 416 has a long lock time since it has an enormous hammer but it shoots really well and now after LW barrel near moa (average of multiple 5 round groups) with handloads. The overall average is around 0.8moa but I just got my recipe finished and I think I might get under it (0.65 to 0.75) as I noticed the longer I load them the better they shoot. This is with a baffled silencer.
It does make a stratch to each bullet but I cannot tell a difference between mag and single feed. Would like to see your test results on that.
It also has a slightly rounded piston end and rounded counter face on the bcg which you have found not optimum. I guess it has slack somewhere else in the piston to allow free movement of the bcg.
I have the 13" midwest handguard to keep the atlas bipod front but I can still make changes to them during firing.
I have handled probably an SRS in 338 and it was awesome. Compared to TRG it is pointable with free hand but shooting has gone from improvised supports to tripod and the weight / balance point near the shooter does not matter so much at all.
Thanks for the positive comments on the SRS rifle. I have only shot the HK 416 in FA up close and personal and not for precision. I have shot the HK MR762A1 for precision and it is a tack driver. HK deals with the piston harmonics by making the barrel a fat 1" all the way up to the gas block which eliminates the piston disturbance but it also makes the rifle 2 lbs heavier than the WLVRN too.
Thanks for the insight! This really makes sense, good luck I had the Lothar made with the same contour.
Here in Finland DT guns are very rare but have also good reputation among those who know about them.
Guns have always been going to lighter direction but I see no problem carrying a heavier gun with large optic, they are very soft shooting and pointable too when you train to them.
I am on the search for semiauto 6.5CM and just realized this WLVRN fits the bill quite well. I would however like thicker barrel and maybe longer too. 39" gun is the one I am customed to and tripod shooting (I use mainly hog) would probably be easier with balance point more in the front so the gun is more stable. At least I would think so?
I would really like to know what kind of sling solutions fit for bullpup and how it slings having never carried one.
I do have FX Wildcat but it lacks the weight and sling mounting options :)
I think by putting on short barrels (for bullpup) you are playing their game. One of the best sides of using bullpup is getting that longer barrel for that standard gun length.
This is important when maximizing what the system can do. A 6.5CM going 200fps more is like another cartridge. With Finnish handloading culture that means 400 fps :D
We have a lot of tasks where we would like to go with lighter and compact guns (and ammo). Better speed gives more leeway in unknown distances shooting and able to shoot heavier bullets with acceptable velocity, gaining better wind performance and energy on target.
Great video. I always wondered why you guys didn't just put a lighter trigger on the MDR as you obviously know how to make them. I love hearing about the thought process behind some of this.
Some other video ideas:
Marksman Rifle: I think the marksman rifle with the monopod and a longer 20-22" barrel or something would be pretty awesome. It could also be interesting to tie in a stupid topic here but manual of arms. I have heard that one of the reasons militaries haven't liked bullpup rifles is because it makes Drill and Ceremony Manual of Arms impossible. Is this true? If so, I am assuming that a marksman rifle with a 20-22" barrel and a suppressor would be long enough that maybe the military wouldn't consider it an issue. Maybe get someone who knows what they are doing to actually show how the manual of arms would be with it. The Utah National Guard probably still has a school at Camp Williams (They did when I went through it) where they teach Drill and Ceremony for funerals. It could be interesting to get a guest show that aspect off using the marksman rifle.
CQB rifle: If you have the leeway to do custom rifles show me a CQB rifle with around a 12" barrel like you do on the micron. HOWEVER, have it chambered in 8.6 Blackout! After that throw a good suppressor on it and show how it could be in actual CQB operations. You don't need that long of a barrel for CQB and a suppressed subsonic round could be really good for noise discipline even after the first round has been fired.
Barrel rifling: You mentioned that the twist rate for the scar made it inaccurate for the ammunition you were using. How does the twist rate do that on a rifle? Also for the rifling. grooved rifling vs polygonal rifling vs button rifling. I have heard that polygonal rifling is more accurate as it provides a better seal and has less bullet deformation. Why isn't it used everywhere? I am assuming it is due to manufacturing difficulties/rate but I honestly don't know.
Material choice: Why did you chose which materials? Which parts are plasitic vs stamped metal vs forged aluminum vs hammer forged steel? What do those terms even mean? What are the alternatives and why would you consider them?
Factory tour: What is the process for making these things? What machines do you use? How long does it take? As a bonus I am sure that some people in the comments of that video could even offer ways you could improve your manufacturing.
Marine/Navy Seal version: This one is a lot more of a stretch but what makes a rifle that those two groups would use? Would you need to seal against water? Use different materials? Would the 8.6 Blackout also be a good round here? I have heard that the faster rounds don't do well in water but could a 8.6 BLK be ideal in a jungle environment with a lot of water and minimal visible range?
Quatro: I know you have said you can't which is why I have left it for last but a quatro version of the WLVRN would be sick.
Wow, tons of great feedback, thanks!!
@@DesertTechUT Ok I had an interesting idea. It isn't 100% unique but I think how I would do it might be. It could also get rid of the issue with making the WLVRN Quatro Compatible. What if instead of the mechanical hammer fired system you have on the weapon you switched to an electrical one? This means that there would be no need for a mechanical linkage from the trigger to the hammer. You would just need a couple of wires. You potentially could even change to a different fire system. Maybe it could be more striker fire like instead of hammer fired. You would obviously need some way to generate power and to store power for this system. To do that I would use a small supercapacitor in the buttstock. A supercapacitor is going to be much longer lived than a battery supporting many charge cycles so that is what I would recommend. It also should be able to hold a charge for several days to a few months. Then for generation you could simply use a very small electric motor housed in the handle that is is mechanically attached to the bolt using a reciprocating gear mechanism. This would ensure that you wouldn't need to have your rifle "charged" as the action of chambering a round would be sufficient to charge the capacitor to power the firing mechanism. The safety would also function as an on off switch to electrically disconnect the circuit. Now with the round chambered pulling the trigger would simply send a signal to the electrical actuator operating a striker fired pin. You could even go further on the trigger and make the trigger easily adjustable meaning you could allow users to apply different trigger pulls to their rifles as desired.
This really wouldn't be that hard to put together as a proof of concept as it doesn't require any novel devices. All of the things I mentioned are easily acquired. The hardest part about this system would be making sure it could withstand repeated use and abuse. Conformal coatings would be needed for all of the electronics and the the robustness of the materials would be paramount since many electronic devices are usually made from plastic. I really do think this concept could work nicely though. If you do end up making this I would love to be able to see it. I am only like 20 minutes from your offices.
I have both the original MDR and the MDRX. It's nice to see each iteration's improvements, most noticeably in the trigger. I'd like to see a video showing off the new tungsten color with tungsten blk lbl handguard. And although the two tone color looks good, do you have any plans to make full tungsten option with the lower half of the chassis being tungsten as well?
Also something to consider, having the option to purchase upper and lower chassis pieces separately? Buying a full gun is kinda pricey, but i have put together several AR15s piece by piece by buying the sections one month at a time.
We haven't considered selling the uppers and lowers separately, I can try to make that an option on our website in the future. We don't have plans for a tungsten lower right now mostly just because we didn't think to do it. I wouldn't hold my breath though because we are trying to keep our product sku's and to as few as possible.
@@DesertTechUT Thanks for the reply, i always appreciate when a company actually responds to people.
Very informative. Thank you!
Your welcome!
Would love to see a micro 300blk build
Best they could probably do is maybe a 13.7ish barrel. The gas port is too far forward to get enough dwell time for something like a 300 blk to work well
DMR WLVRN 26" 6.5 Creed bull barrel, extended handguard, over (or around) bore bipod, rear monopod.
A 26 inch bull barrel seems a little overkill for 6.5 not to mention the weight. I’d much rather have a suppressed 20” in that kind of role
@@blaeshoflen8663 okay fine, 24".
26" is what most competition shooters use, so that's why I picked it . Plus it would really highlight the space efficiency of a bullpup. Being the same length as a 20" AR.
Question for Nick :
Let's say, on your auto platforms, you wanted to squeeze all you can out of a cartridge capability. Let's say you wanted the maximum effective range out of it. Let's say, going this way you had to get ride of any kind of gas operated system. Now, because you still want to be able to switch caliber and muzzles device, you discover that you can't go with all kind of mechanical delayed system. Ok, now let's say you think about an action using inertia amplifier lever and adjustable additional mass to adjust between calibers and muzzle devices... What would you think would be the downsides of this kind of system except being a little gassy, for the shooter, and dirty for the action yet super reliable nevertheless ?
I am having a hard time visualizing what you are describing. More explanation is needed.
@DesertTechUT In short, what do you think are the bad things if you used a Famas style action in your MDR/MDRX/WLVRN/SABERTOOTH platforms ? Knowing all the good things coming from it's use (even Fw Eject would have been pretty reliable...)
@@LuluBear974 I expect it would have less accuracy potential is all I can think of.
@DesertTechUT Tried and Proven ? They are known to reach farther and be more accurate than gas operated systems for the exact same cartridge, aren't they?
@DesertTechUT Famas: designed at the end of 60s, shown in 1973, adopted in 1978, known for being a 1.4576 MOA right out of the box since the very beginning... 1960 system using 2024 tech... why not?
Please do a Vs reliability test. Would love to see how the wolwerine performs against more common rifles!
Sounds good any specific rifles your interested seeing it compared to?
@@DesertTechUT Tavor/X95 (since their actively being used in a lot of cqc right now) and a Mk 18 perhaps?
ar15s (colt, dd, etc), aug, sig spear, scar, tavor, bren, ak family, arx and all the others you can put your hands on. Use the same attention you used for the accuracy testing and it will be something to watch with extreme interest
Does the hammer strike the back of the bolt carrier? You said it not me
Yes
@@DesertTechUT ah, thank you!
listening carefully to your very appreciated words releases one question: DI is most likely the better choice for accuracy. And can be made as reliable as piston gas systems. Might have an even more soft shooting experience. Why then not jumping to DI? Is it due to the lenght of the gas system to operate fine?
Great video, would love to own a WLVRN, no dealers in AUSTRIA anymore. Maybe you can improve that as well.
Piston reduces gasses in the face and in a bullpup form that is appreciated, it also runs cooler at the chamber and keeps the chamber clean. Reduced cleaning and less gas in the eyes are the two things I like best about pistons. Plus the US Military is migrating over to piston systems which mean everyone and their dog now thinks pistons are the best thing ever, even if they aren't and perception is more important than reality most times which is really dumb in my book.
@@DesertTechUT thanks a lot for your reply and the very honest and time consuming content you share with your community. That is very much appreciated and outstanding.
To be honest I was hoping your answer somehow matches expectations and it did! For me as an AUSTRIAN citizen I´ve been trained with bullpups in our military service. Since then (long time ago🙂) of course I experienced your named advantages and my own AUG proofs them all. Barrel Change as a bonus is done in seconds. Tried to get hands on the MDR but hat no luck with the operation ended in sending it back due to lots of quality issues. Now as the next generation has the maturity it becomes more interesting again. I´d love to have one in 308 again. May I ask you to check dealer availability for AUSTRIA?
@@maige yes I can see what availability exists down under. 👍🏻
No Down Under. Austria=EUROPE no kangagroos
@@maige lol my bad. Thought you said you were in Australia.
In 50 years that one prototype rifle with the monopod and match barrel will be in a massive bidding war between some collectors for eye watering amounts of money.
That would be cool. I always appreciated the one off prototypes HK shared in their grey room over the years.
0:17 clip on thermal name ??
Heinzholdt
could not find??@@DesertTechUT
could not find
@@DesertTechUT
Interesting video, I just got my MDRX back from Desert Tech, this past Tuesday, their warranty return time is super fast taking just a week