2nd year apprentice, learned basic fundamentals on the job, but your videos have made everything click. Kudos on the electrical troubleshooting. Would be lucky to work for somebody like you. THANK YOU
Its the heating season again. I am a Facilities Technician troubleshooting air comfort complaints or heading off complaints if I see heating Setpoints not being satisfied. Thanks for the hopscotch method. Self study has always been my go to in building the skill set. Good short tutorial.
Very helpful and clear video. I wish I had that confidence with electrical. Got hit with 220v one day because my meter said the lines were dead, been gun shy ever since.
I saw someone ...a "friend"...do that to but when I looked at his meter I noticed his leads were pushed all the way into the meter. Terrible...just terrible.
Nice video, a good refresher for me. I don't work on many electric heat systems but I do work on electric water heaters. This method will make my next electric water heater diagnostic much easier.
Thanks. A circuit is a circuit! I tell some younger guys that the electric water heater is an electric furnace...just no blower. I try to make it easy to relate to what they know so they are less freaked out by "something new".
Thanks for the hopscotching video. You do a good job with explaining the concept. I would enjoy more of these type videos. I mainly do work on down flow mobile home air handlers and furnaces. Thanks
We are looking to get some more of those style units and if so then I would try to out something out on it. Everybody has their own way of troubleshooting but once I got the hang of the hopscotch it really helped me. Thanks for commenting.
Good vid. Had a no cool call and found that the AC and elements were both being powered at the same time. I suspect a bad board but haven't ordered one yet. I simply disco'd the white control wire from the contactor. I watched your other video but it didn't address how to check for this particular issue
An issue for heat sequencer I have seen is they stick closed and keep the heat strips on while the thermostat is just controlling the a/c. First time I saw that it kinda messed with me, perfect pressures, superheat, subcooling, etc. But when i checked the return and supply temps they were the same...80 F! Heat sequencer stuck closed. But anything can happen. Stick with the sequence of operation and basic voltage checks and you'll find it.
@@johnjennings-JJ It was a head scratcher for sure. Luckily it's my neighbor across the street and there's still time before the cold weather sets in. I thought the contactor was stuck closed but that wasn't it but I will find the issue like you said
When checking across the contactor and again at the high limit with your lead on L2 is the meter actually showing power from L1 ( both legs) and when checking the heat element across from the high temp. limit isn't the meter showing L2 to L2. May be over thinking it or really don't get it. I thought L1 to L1 or L2 to L2 would read "0".
Sorry...been night fishing lately. Yes. When i first started and kept the lead on L2, I was checking the L1 side up to the circuit entering the element. Once I hit the element, I had to switch the stationary lead from L2 to L1 to get a voltage reading. Just like you said...L1 to L1 would be '0' since it is the same side of power. Likewise with L2. This one short vid was just trying to show how you could do the hopscotch method. The readings could change due to an open hi limit, fusible link, etc. I hope this helps, I don't want to confuse.
Same principle but on commercial you will run into different power supply voltages like 460/277V but once you see and understand it you can use it on whatever!
Hai john I question confusing me, when we recovery system to a recovery tank, it’s same time we recovery the refrigerant oil to the tank , can we reuse the refrigerant on the recovery tank to another system? Thank you 😊
A lot of guys do reuse it or sell it to another customer. You can discuss EPA regulations for the US but I don't need to. Plenty of that information online. I look at it this way...I am not going to take a chance of putting a mixed refrigerant or acid into someone else's system. One company I worked for had a simple rule, no exceptions...once I take it out of a unit it goes to the reclaiming station or turned in at a local part supplier. Let them recycle and reclaim the used refrigerant so it is right. Good question. Thanks for asking..
on a Goodman model# MBR1200AA-1AA all electric furnace only, one in awhile(usually the middle of the night) the blower will not kick on but element lights...I have to shut breaker(on-off switch at bottom of unit) OFF ,wait 5 mins till a light click is heard, then switch power back on and PRESTO! is it the sequencer or fan relay?? TY in advance!
I would have to say that if the electric strips are on and the blower isn't that it would seem like the fan relay/board is the issue. I have never come across this particular model but i don't see how it is any different than a regular Goodman air handler that I have in the shop.
I got a couple of videos with different relays and go through some of them doing voltage checks but I am working on another one where I will do that...
I think for that one I had to heat turned on so the contactor should have 24 volts from the t'stat, closing the switch, and passing power to the electric strip heater.
Okay I watched it again, and you went straight across from L1 instead of L2 which thought you went straight across from. You did a fine job, I should have watched it twice before commenting. Thanks
I like this method more than any other. It took me a while to realize that there are 2 legs of power feeding our circuits and that if i prove power using that main power source then i am better off. Some guys put one lead to ground when checking circuits. I think a lot of others just don't know what to check sometimes. This is just the way I feel is the best.
@@johnjennings-JJ ,the question is simple. You tested the power on each end of the heat strip and you got 209v at 6.39 and the heat strip was off. Wien the heat strip is off , and if you test the power on each end of the heat strip, should you get 120v or 240v because if you get 240v it should be on and hot Thanks
I think we are on the same side but dancing around each other... The heat strip was on for this video pretty much from the 1 min mark. Yes...I did check at the actual terminal ends of the heater and got 209v while it was running. If i had shut it off and left my meter leads in place at those circle looking ceramics I was at...I would have read 0 volts because this unit has a 2 pole contactor used for the heater strip. That would have broken both the L1 and L2 sides of power to the strip and that means 0 volts. If it were a standard heat sequencer or heat relay I still would have gotten 0 volts on my meter if checking at those same terminals but only because the heat sequencer breaks one side of power. If I checked either terminal to ground I would have gotten the 120v you mentioned.
Thank you for the video. I have a scenario where my coil turns on only when I disconnect the blower motor wire(purple). If I connect the blower wire, the blower fan turns on but the heating element doesn't. It's puzzling me.
@@johnjennings-JJ The defrost control board was burnt. I replaced that. I labelled each wire before removing the board and replacing it. I guess the outdoor unit defrost control board can be ruled out because the heating happens at the air handler. Secondly, the fuse on the relay board in the inside unit was burnt, I replaced it.
Sorry for the late reply, got caught up at work. The only time I have seen that happen on an electric heat kit and blower motor circuit board was when the fan board was mis-wired on the relay. That was a goodman air handler and all the high voltage wires were basically one terminal off of where they were supposed to be. That being said it might just be a faulty relay on that fan circuit board. Sometimes when things go boom it messes up something else before that fuse catches it! I would be curious to find out what fixes this.
Indoor fan or outdoor fan? Either way it sounds like a switch is closed and should be open. It could be a stuck relay switch or it could be the thermostat is sending power to the relay when it shouldn't. If the indoor fan, you would need to check voltage at the fan relay coil or circuit board 'G' terminal (to the Common)to see if you have 24v present. If not then it is likely just the relay needing replacement or the entire fan board.
I see you are operating on a 208 volt Wye 3 phase system. Keep in mind that when you do that, your heat strips will deliver only 75% of their rated output. In this case a 5 KW heat strip will put out 3.75 KW worth of BTU's.
Thanks. This is a 208 system with both single & three phase for the shop. This one was a single phase I think but nonetheless there are a lot of good things to remember about different phase/voltage systems as you said. Definitely have to pay attention to the power supply/system you are working on.
@@johnjennings-JJ Or use a buck/boost transformer. In this case you will need a 1 KVA transformer with a 120/240 volt primary with a 16/32 volt secondary wired a an auto transformer in order to boost the voltage as close to 240 volts as possible. According to my calculations the output voltage will be around 238 volts.
Man that is too much calculating for me. But I would use a buck/boost on my flounder lights! I do like the thinking aspect of electricity "stuff"... Keeps the brain sharp when it's working on those calculations.
Or you could install a 7.5KW heat strip. That is 7.5KW at 240 volts. It would be 5.6KW at 208 volts. Thus you would be compensating for the voltage drop and getting the same heat level at the lower voltage.
Something like that...but for me it is 2 different voltages mixed together in that thought process. Coil is low voltage, switch and load are high. But if you are talking sequence of operation....yes! Tstat powers coils, switch closes, load turns on. Got it.
With one lead on ground it is a little tricky. I don't like using it. Not to plug any of my own stuff but I have a video on why I don't like using ground for checks with a meter. It can confuse you if you don't watch it. In my eyes you really have to know what you are going to get before even checking it.
Thanks for posting this! Taking a practical competency quiz at school tomorrow in my hvac program and this helps a ton
Good luck...understanding this (and it took me a while) changed how I do what I do!
Damn John.....The best explanation and straight forward
2nd year apprentice, learned basic fundamentals on the job, but your videos have made everything click. Kudos on the electrical troubleshooting. Would be lucky to work for somebody like you. THANK YOU
Thank you. Sometimes it is hard to say things so everyone is on the same page but if it helps you then I am glad to hear.
Its the heating season again. I am a Facilities Technician troubleshooting air comfort complaints or heading off complaints if I see heating Setpoints not being satisfied. Thanks for the hopscotch method. Self study has always been my go to in building the skill set. Good short tutorial.
Thanks. Somebody showed me so this is just passing it along.
Very helpful and clear video. I wish I had that confidence with electrical. Got hit with 220v one day because my meter said the lines were dead, been gun shy ever since.
I saw someone ...a "friend"...do that to but when I looked at his meter I noticed his leads were pushed all the way into the meter. Terrible...just terrible.
Though I like hopscotching with ground, this is helpful to others in understanding how potential differences work.
Getting very proficient using my mult-imeter with your videos. Thank You. Keep Posting.
I appreciate it man I can watch this video all day.
Thanks. I appreciate it.
Nice video, a good refresher for me. I don't work on many electric heat systems but I do work on electric water heaters. This method will make my next electric water heater diagnostic much easier.
Thanks. A circuit is a circuit! I tell some younger guys that the electric water heater is an electric furnace...just no blower. I try to make it easy to relate to what they know so they are less freaked out by "something new".
Thanks for the hopscotching video. You do a good job with explaining the concept. I would enjoy more of these type videos. I mainly do work on down flow mobile home air handlers and furnaces. Thanks
We are looking to get some more of those style units and if so then I would try to out something out on it. Everybody has their own way of troubleshooting but once I got the hang of the hopscotch it really helped me. Thanks for commenting.
Great job I watched this video many times
I tell people all the time that this method is the best way.
Wow! Thank you very much. That was an excellent explanation. Very clear.
Best way to troubleshoot any circuit in my opinion. Thanks for watching.
Thank you for this video. Your explanation was the simplest I have found. Can you make videos showing the other methods?
Awesome. I'll try to put more out on other methods. I prefer the hopscotching...is there one you like/heard of you would like to see?
I'm new to hvac. Anything you upload explaining troubleshooting methods & how multimeters work is cool with me.
I'll try. Stick with it and learn what you can. There are a lot of resources out there. Lots of potential.
Wish my school had this. Time to take notes
Thanks for watching. You only need a few notes. Once you got it, you got it..if you have any questions I'll try to help.
Great job of explaining Very glad RUclips suggested I would like 😊
Thank you
Excellent presentation.
Thank you so much! Love this video!
Thank you
That's Great!!!! Thank you so much for the explanation. You make it sooooo plain!!!
Thank you so much for the explanation
Great video
Thank you! Help me out alot!
Thank you for your video. If I have a outdoor unit, then the air-handler will be different than this video, right?
A little bit different but the same principles apply.
Hi there and that had helped me become a better technician.
Thanks. That is good to hear. We should all want to get a little better because there is always something to learn.
Good vid. Had a no cool call and found that the AC and elements were both being powered at the same time. I suspect a bad board but haven't ordered one yet. I simply disco'd the white control wire from the contactor. I watched your other video but it didn't address how to check for this particular issue
An issue for heat sequencer I have seen is they stick closed and keep the heat strips on while the thermostat is just controlling the a/c. First time I saw that it kinda messed with me, perfect pressures, superheat, subcooling, etc. But when i checked the return and supply temps they were the same...80 F! Heat sequencer stuck closed. But anything can happen. Stick with the sequence of operation and basic voltage checks and you'll find it.
@@johnjennings-JJ It was a head scratcher for sure. Luckily it's my neighbor across the street and there's still time before the cold weather sets in. I thought the contactor was stuck closed but that wasn't it but I will find the issue like you said
Very informative 👏👏
When checking across the contactor and again at the high limit with your lead on L2 is the meter actually showing power from L1 ( both legs) and when checking the heat element across from the high temp. limit isn't the meter showing L2 to L2. May be over thinking it or really don't get it. I thought L1 to L1 or L2 to L2 would read "0".
Sorry...been night fishing lately. Yes. When i first started and kept the lead on L2, I was checking the L1 side up to the circuit entering the element. Once I hit the element, I had to switch the stationary lead from L2 to L1 to get a voltage reading. Just like you said...L1 to L1 would be '0' since it is the same side of power. Likewise with L2. This one short vid was just trying to show how you could do the hopscotch method. The readings could change due to an open hi limit, fusible link, etc. I hope this helps, I don't want to confuse.
Will this work the same on a rtu I’m still learning this my first year and I work commercial
Same principle but on commercial you will run into different power supply voltages like 460/277V but once you see and understand it you can use it on whatever!
@@johnjennings-JJ thank you,thank you love your videos.
Great Tutorial Definitely will follow more videos thank you
Thank you.
amazing job !
Hai john I question confusing me, when we recovery system to a recovery tank, it’s same time we recovery the refrigerant oil to the tank , can we reuse the refrigerant on the recovery tank to another system? Thank you 😊
A lot of guys do reuse it or sell it to another customer. You can discuss EPA regulations for the US but I don't need to. Plenty of that information online. I look at it this way...I am not going to take a chance of putting a mixed refrigerant or acid into someone else's system. One company I worked for had a simple rule, no exceptions...once I take it out of a unit it goes to the reclaiming station or turned in at a local part supplier. Let them recycle and reclaim the used refrigerant so it is right. Good question. Thanks for asking..
Thank you 👏👏👏
No problem. Just my 2 cents worth!
on a Goodman model# MBR1200AA-1AA all electric furnace only, one in awhile(usually the middle of the night) the blower will not kick on but element lights...I have to shut breaker(on-off switch at bottom of unit) OFF ,wait 5 mins till a light click is heard, then switch power back on and PRESTO! is it the sequencer or fan relay?? TY in advance!
I would have to say that if the electric strips are on and the blower isn't that it would seem like the fan relay/board is the issue. I have never come across this particular model but i don't see how it is any different than a regular Goodman air handler that I have in the shop.
what voltage is the coil? No voltage to coil no activation.
Can you do a video showing the hopscotch method tracing from a terminal block to the loads , switches etc? Great videos
I got a couple of videos with different relays and go through some of them doing voltage checks but I am working on another one where I will do that...
@@johnjennings-JJ thank you, your videos are very helpful
So you're testing with the contactor open or disengaged ?
I think for that one I had to heat turned on so the contactor should have 24 volts from the t'stat, closing the switch, and passing power to the electric strip heater.
Okay I watched it again, and you went straight across from L1 instead of L2 which thought you went straight across from.
You did a fine job, I should have watched it twice before commenting. Thanks
No worries. I hope it makes sense and I didn't mess up on checking/explaining.
Great video brother 💯💯💯💯💯
Thank you.
What other methods can I use to troubleshoot electrical circuits?
Or would this be the best method?
I like this method more than any other. It took me a while to realize that there are 2 legs of power feeding our circuits and that if i prove power using that main power source then i am better off. Some guys put one lead to ground when checking circuits. I think a lot of others just don't know what to check sometimes. This is just the way I feel is the best.
If you have 209 v on each end of the heat strip, then it should be on. How does it turn on? I thought it turns on when it has 209 v going into it.
Tell me minutes/seconds in the video you are referring to and I can better answer
@@johnjennings-JJ ,the question is simple. You tested the power on each end of the heat strip and you got 209v at 6.39 and the heat strip was off. Wien the heat strip is off , and if you test the power on each end of the heat strip, should you get 120v or 240v because if you get 240v it should be on and hot Thanks
I think we are on the same side but dancing around each other...
The heat strip was on for this video pretty much from the 1 min mark. Yes...I did check at the actual terminal ends of the heater and got 209v while it was running. If i had shut it off and left my meter leads in place at those circle looking ceramics I was at...I would have read 0 volts because this unit has a 2 pole contactor used for the heater strip. That would have broken both the L1 and L2 sides of power to the strip and that means 0 volts. If it were a standard heat sequencer or heat relay I still would have gotten 0 volts on my meter if checking at those same terminals but only because the heat sequencer breaks one side of power. If I checked either terminal to ground I would have gotten the 120v you mentioned.
@@johnjennings-JJ thank you for the info.
Thank you for the video. I have a scenario where my coil turns on only when I disconnect the blower motor wire(purple). If I connect the blower wire, the blower fan turns on but the heating element doesn't. It's puzzling me.
Sounds like you got something wired wrong. Have you replaced something lately?
@@johnjennings-JJ The defrost control board was burnt. I replaced that. I labelled each wire before removing the board and replacing it. I guess the outdoor unit defrost control board can be ruled out because the heating happens at the air handler.
Secondly, the fuse on the relay board in the inside unit was burnt, I replaced it.
Sorry for the late reply, got caught up at work. The only time I have seen that happen on an electric heat kit and blower motor circuit board was when the fan board was mis-wired on the relay. That was a goodman air handler and all the high voltage wires were basically one terminal off of where they were supposed to be. That being said it might just be a faulty relay on that fan circuit board. Sometimes when things go boom it messes up something else before that fuse catches it! I would be curious to find out what fixes this.
@ Thanks for explanation and please do be sorry :). I have the new fan relay board. I will keep you posted how the repair goes.
It's not the relay board. The behavior is the same with the new board. I don't know what the problem is.
Bruh 👍❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Big Respect 🙏
Blessing and more blessings to you and your family in Jesus name Amen
Thank you. We are, have been, and will be blessed as I hope you are too.
Great information. very helpful.
Can this work on any Air Handler Brand ?
Should be able to use this method on really anything.
Great video
Blessing and more blessings to you and your family in Jesus name Amen ❤️🙏
What to do if the fan continues to run when thermostat in on off
?
Indoor fan or outdoor fan? Either way it sounds like a switch is closed and should be open. It could be a stuck relay switch or it could be the thermostat is sending power to the relay when it shouldn't. If the indoor fan, you would need to check voltage at the fan relay coil or circuit board 'G' terminal (to the Common)to see if you have 24v present. If not then it is likely just the relay needing replacement or the entire fan board.
Please do a full troubleshooting on every component brother.
This is a heat pump?
Could be installed in a heat pump. Could just be an all electric heat system.
Excellent video!
Thank you.
Awesome video. Thanks for sharing.
You bet. I am trying to get you there.
Gator clip the stationary lead if possible guys you can create a short playing hopscotch no different than checking a capacitor while under load
Thank you
Thanks so much
Hopscotching is the way to go. Thanks for checking it out.
Thanks man!
Thanks for checking it out.
Couldn't of done it better ... Lol ... Great tutorial ...
Appreciate it! It isn't terribly hard to do once you get it.
I Subscribed!!!
Thanks.
Jst subscribed to channel great job
Thanks.
Not a good place for meter. Just asking to put your hand in wrong spot and get lite up
awesome
Thanks
I see you are operating on a 208 volt Wye 3 phase system. Keep in mind that when you do that, your heat strips will deliver only 75% of their rated output. In this case a 5 KW heat strip will put out 3.75 KW worth of BTU's.
Thanks. This is a 208 system with both single & three phase for the shop. This one was a single phase I think but nonetheless there are a lot of good things to remember about different phase/voltage systems as you said. Definitely have to pay attention to the power supply/system you are working on.
@@johnjennings-JJ Or use a buck/boost transformer. In this case you will need a 1 KVA transformer with a 120/240 volt primary with a 16/32 volt secondary wired a an auto transformer in order to boost the voltage as close to 240 volts as possible. According to my calculations the output voltage will be around 238 volts.
Man that is too much calculating for me. But I would use a buck/boost on my flounder lights! I do like the thinking aspect of electricity "stuff"... Keeps the brain sharp when it's working on those calculations.
Or you could install a 7.5KW heat strip. That is 7.5KW at 240 volts. It would be 5.6KW at 208 volts. Thus you would be compensating for the voltage drop and getting the same heat level at the lower voltage.
Good point. I'll have to bring that up in the future. The wire size already there is probably plenty big enough so it shiuldn't be a problem. Thanks
Coil switch load
Something like that...but for me it is 2 different voltages mixed together in that thought process. Coil is low voltage, switch and load are high. But if you are talking sequence of operation....yes! Tstat powers coils, switch closes, load turns on. Got it.
Interesting.
209 is a bit low
I don't have a 240 volt power supply at my shop, it is a 208 volt source.
I am a big proponent of electric resistance heat.
Very popular with heat pumps around my area and very easy to learn/fix.
Please, don't ever take this video down
I don't plan on it. Thanks for watching.
Does it also work with one lead on ground instead of neutral?
With one lead on ground it is a little tricky. I don't like using it. Not to plug any of my own stuff but I have a video on why I don't like using ground for checks with a meter. It can confuse you if you don't watch it. In my eyes you really have to know what you are going to get before even checking it.
@@johnjennings-JJ Okay thanks for the reply. In my HVAC program we used ground and it seemed to help, but I’ll definitely check out your video on it
We all have our ways. Understanding them sometimes is tricky and takes a while.