Built my first one 40 years ago with an old starter motor and a trailer to carry heavy old car batteries .Was pretty crap and every one laughed and said that will never catch on. last year I fitted a kit and it's awesome.
I'd like to see more conversion kits on the show. For many of us our first experience of ebikes is through kits. My mountain bike lay in the shed for 15 years rarely ridden until I fitted my first kit. Now I'm riding hundreds of miles each year.
Same. I've even got into DIY solar tech after the eBike kit upgrade. A few hundred quid later and I haven't charged anything with a battery of the mains since. Love it! :)
I built a 1300w 48v 16ah rear-drive on a 29” Shwinn MTB. On throttle only it will go 15 miles with a Max speed of 27mph. I’m 6’4” @ 260lbs. It cost me $1,450.00 and I’ve put about 1,300 miles on it so far. If you are going to build your 1st ebike make sure you already have a good set of tools that encompasses all parts of the bike. Have a decent air pump as well. If you are a larger person invest in a larger thicker tire, with the added weight of the kit it’s easy to get flats from snake bites or bottoming out on the rim. Try to find a bike with at least a front suspension so you don’t get bounced around as much on your ride. If you value your life upgrade the stock brakes, you are carrying so much more weight and forward-energy the stopping distance can be much greater at high speeds. Cars and pedestrians are not used to seeing a bicycle moving at these higher speeds and just pull out in front of you thinking that you were going much slower. Furthermore you gotta get creative in trying to iron out the details installation. Mounting everything securely can be tricky. You also need to know the type of power connector from the battery wire, it needs to match the computer/controller. Mine was different but my local hobby shop soldered the correct one on for $5.00. Finally as this is electric there is going to be downtime for charging, most batteries come with 2 Amp-Hour charger which is fine but if you ride a lot invest in a better one or an extra battery. Best Regards
i plan on building my own bike and with my knowledge of rc cars, i am confident i can build my own batteries and will have several built. question: what and if you had to make one change in your build what would it be? personally i want to go more than 15 miles, maybe closer to 60 and i'm built about like you but a tad lighter and that tells me i need maybe 48v 64ah
@@jasonbrown467 The prices for building your own large batteries has gone way down in the last year. Along with newer, easier techniques for putting them together. You should have no problem once you get the parts together. If I were to change one thing about my build now that I’ve had it a while, it would be to change over from a rear hub drive to a front hub drive. When you get a flat or just need to take the wheel off for what ever reason it can be a time consuming process as you have to remove the torque arm. Then when you get the wheel off and fix whatever the problem is and put the wheel back on you’ll have to fine tune the derailleur so the shifting is accurate. Then put the torque arm back on so you don’t snap the drop-ins under full power stress. In my opinion any maintenance will just be easier with the motor up front. On another note either go with a tubeless tire or a robust standard tire. If you don’t you will regret it. Flats are very common with the added weight. Good luck to you. Once you get everything ironed out it’s so much fun. Best Regards.
@@caseyalexander1705 excellent info, yeah i have been eye balling these electric bikes since about 2013 or so, and i can see prices on everything has come way down. i see the batteries are cheaper but still very expensive and i should have known with my rc and solar experience, but its worth it i plan to live on my bike, ride to work, hit the trails etc etc. i can see me becoming obsessed and saving about $300usd a month in fuel expenses. i still want to get at least two big batteries, maybe three, and leave on at my office on the charger to swap out. man i cant wait. good call on the rear hub vs the front and bigger tires, but i still may do the rear anyways, hell at one point i was going to do both lol.
Yeah tell me about it, I actually got a fat tire with a 250W, the upgraded it to 350w (rear drives), with all the bits, then currently trying to mount a 1000w bcause I need it to go uphill better, but the derailer hits the box because the motor is wider, I am quite stuck. Problem is, maybe they are all equally as crap, but they are not all the same, different battery plugs or configuration, it's a bit like PCs you never get one perfectly working properly because it requires an R&D you can't afford. I have given up building computers and got an HP workstation, it's flawless. I might get an expensive one that work well, I and fed up of all the junk it even generates.
I built a class 4 ebike about 8 months ago. That means I have no PAS system. I do 30mph with ease. I can go well over 30 under the right conditions. Keep in mind, just because I can go that fast doesn’t mean I always do. I have and do push the limits of my bike often, that does mean I take mountain gravel roads and trails that dirt bikes are on. I also have had multiple problems come up and had to learn a ton about every component involved. Ive had to find answers to problems even the experts that sell and work on the expensive ebikes don’t know the answer to. I’ve had to learn the hard way, many times those same people have been completely wrong. It seems they always advise the most expensive way to find and fix the problem first, even if they aren’t going to be making any money out of it. At this point the only original parts from when i began this journey are my battery and my motor. On my rear hub motor my disk break is attached directly onto the motor. When you’re going down a steep hill or slowing down from higher speeds that disk break is going to get hot. Extremely hot. In turn that disk break is going to make your motor hub hot too. And as you work the motor going up it stays hot and back and fourth. This heat, I now believe can travel from that disk break, make the motor hotter than it would be, and follow the power lines, all of them, back to the controller, and even into the throttle. There is a plastic connector for the 5/6 wire connection of the hall connection and such. I’ve melted that twice. I had melted it the first time and had a ebike shop fix it for me. They told me I had been taxing the battery too much going up hill. Unknown to me they replaced it with the same part than wrapped it in a bike inner tube and made it look like it had been heat shrunken. I was pretty mad when it melted again. There’s more to that but I digress. I fixed that by hard wiring that connection and insulating it. No plastic to melt. I rode very hard on some mountain passes yesterday. My throttle went out for the second time, but I wasn’t aware of it until this morning. I took both thumb throttles apart. The wires were broken in the same spot in both. Either the wires are arcing. Or my theory about heat building up through the wires as a result of the disk break getting hot. Or. As a 3rd very real possibility, the parts are just made cheep. I did some research and found that the throttle I payed $37 for 2 times. Is sold on the web for $7. Just sold under a different name. I have what that store called a beefier throttle now, and my bike is running, they gave me this throttle for free. I’m not hopeful it will last and plan to replace it. My plan is to go to a scooter or motorcycle shop and find a heat gasket to put in between the motor and the disk break. No idea if it will help. But I hope so. Let me know what you think or if you have any ideas. Thanks in advance. 26” 1000w 48a rear hub motor
I don't think going fast with a bicycle is ever a good idea, but you forge that in your flesh as a kid normally; however I want the bike to go uphill easily, because, still as a kid, I noticed one other thing too: going downhill with a bicycle, the whole Paradise helps you, going uphill less so.
My 4 year old can fit these conversion kits with blindfold and one arm tied behind his back. These guys make it sound more complicated than it is. Just go ahead and do it, it's so easy.
A lot of the hub kits are mounted to 26" MTB wheels - it is one way to revive that retro mountain bike that''s not doing too much in the shed! I made a video about an old Raleigh bike that has been given new e-bike powers.
Good to see this post. the Bafang mid drive works really well for commuting and hacking around the streets. Not a difficult install but the difference for me is in keeping the cables managed and neat it makes a big difference to the look of the conversion. So many conversions look terrible with wires everywhere.
There is a German company out there selling custom-sized harnesses (you can input your own cable lengths for each bit and choose if you need sensor cables, throttle cable, etc). It helps a LOT to get a super clean install for BBS motors.
Good point about the looks of the installation, that's what sent me down the Rabbit Hole. Anyone with normal mechanical skill can probably achieve a working e-bike conversion in a couple of days. I did, thinking first make the thing work, then change what you don't like and make a nice cable routing... Bought the kit three or four years ago and the bike isn't finished to this day! I was in my garage today and it stared at me! Really, the only thing left to do is route all the cables into the pannier and hide the controller there. And of course some minor things. My holiday just started, maybe... At least it won't look like sh*t when (if) it's finished.
Has anyone ever considered strapping all 3 motors to a bike? It would be interesting to see how steep a climb it could take you up! Go on Steve, build it!
3 motors is wildly inefficient: Weighs a ton(3 motors, 3 controllers), drains your battery faster than you can empty a bag of M&Ms, rear wheel might have trouble keeping grip especially on loose grond(sand, gravel etc) cuz of the double output and it's going to set you back nearly 3 times the price of a normal kit. Also I'm not sure whether a normal frame is up to the torque of being both rear-hubbed and mid-motored, unleashing double amounts of power will probably cause fatigue or bending. It might launch you to light speed immediately though, but it won't do so for long before requiring recharge. Your results would be a lot better with just 2 motors: one for the front, one for the back, be it rear-hubbed or mid-motored. There's little point in having 2 motors outputting on the same wheel, it would be more efficient to install a bigger single motor.
2 x 3000 watt hub motors, Crystalyte 3540's, you dont need a third... even 2 @ 1500 watts each is plenty for most people. 2 x 10,000 watt Crystalyte motors.... I did that 10 years ago.... and that is just, insane.... and I only ran them at 5kw each, smoke the tires off pretty much....back then the battery tech was not as good and the controllers.... way too expensive to push 10kw regularly and I really didnt need any more concussion's after 12.... 3 before the age of 5.... what can I say, if it goes fast, wheels, tracks, hulls, ski's.... you name it, I've been on it and probably crashed it once or twice...
@@larrymacdonald4241 I had a single HS3540 with a 74v 40a controller custom build bike and that thing went like shit off a shovel! Back in 2011 I think. What you had sounds beyond insane ahaha
Bafang 750watt mid drive brilliant ive over 7000 km. On my Giant Roam conversation. I started with a little 250watt front motor conversation from a Chinese company called Lvbu . Still in use on my old Marin. Its excellent as well.
Good info....U.S. commenter here.....I considered a conversion and it is important to take one big thing into account..... if your "donor" bike does not have disc-style brakes that might be a problem...."squeeze" brakes offer less stopping power. That equates to less safety especially at 20+ MPH.....so you'll have to replace them (the entire wheel) or install rotors and new brake hardware on existing wheels.... more money and skill required.....overall if you are new to this consider a modestly priced pre-build (which you will fall in love with...trust me). If you keep it in decent shape you can re-sell it at a fair price.... then either build or buy the bike with the performance and features you want from the experience gained from your first e-bike experience
As an early adopter of e assist, first one was 2001, the only options available were kits or 250w EU/Japanese reg eBikes with front or rear hub or the mid drive units from Panasonic, Yamaha etc. that were low on power and range. The biggest drawback was the battery technology which at that time was likely to be SLA or at best NIMH. The first conversion I did was a Currie system that had the drive unit attached to the rear end. Currie btw eventually ended up being bought by ACCELL and becoming the US distributor for Haibike and a major player in the development of the Class laws here in the US. The potential was there but the batteries didn't provide the amount of amps to power a bike up nor the ah's for a very long ride. Cadence sensing PAS were as much garbage then as now so throttles, legal here in the US, were actually preferable. Keeping track of the development over the years it wasn't until Lithium batteries made the scene that eBikes, whether kit or branded complete bikes, were developed that would provide enough amps and wh's that finally unleashed the potential of eBikes to the larger market. The cost was high for the new battery chemistry but cost per wh has dropped considerably since. As an example my first LiFePo4 battery was $600 shaped like a cement block and @ 48v provided a bit over 500wh's whereas my latest battery purchase cost me $400 and is a 48v, 18ah (864wh) 2170 cell in the what is known as an HL style down tube mount style. At this point I have three 48v 2170 batteries, 12ah, 15ah and 18ah to choose from depending on the amount of ride time given the terrain I am riding that I can switch between my 3 eBikes, 2 front hub drop bar road and 1 mid drive MTB, for less than $1500. As I mentioned cadence sensing PAS is shite and will feel unnatural to a real cyclist in that the way it controls the speed is not always relative to the amount of effort you want to put into the pedals. Torque assist systems are far preferable but limited in selection for kit units to a few mid drive models, I use the TSDZ2 and find it to be on par with the big players on that level and cheap to buy @$350 or so but also a bit skimpy in regards to their bb bearings and the fact they have a square taper spindle and take some maneuvering to get a decent chainline due to the drive side offset, or a torque sensing bb in conjunction with a hub motor. Due to the EU regs regarding no throttles that has never been an issue for us here and I have found it to be a useful tool also. They get a bad rap but are actually a very useful item for starting off and blipping on the odd occasion to maintain momentum in say a rock garden where pedal strikes are an issue. I would say in an average 30 mile 3000' elevation gain ride I use the throttle for less than 500' but having it there when I need has become part of what I expect of an eBike when I am riding and works a treat. The assumption that once a throttle is installed it is used to exclusivity is laughable to me actually although I do see people at time utilizing that feature but consider it to be their loss as pedaling is the best part of the trip. My kit based front hub drop bar bikes which I use on all terrains actually and have from sea level to 12,000' are throttle only but can be set as a "cruise control" at the infinite range of watts within the system using a Cycle Analyst display that goes way deeper into being able to tailor the controllers output parameters than any other display I know of but is on analog level compared to the App based systems from the big players or companies like GreyP.. However much I like the TA on my eMTB for the road I prefer to tailor the amount of assist to my desired cadence/physical input without any "magic leg" effect at the drive train. It has become a personal preference and wouldn't trade it for any of the drop bar bikes that are now becoming popular. Because of the front hub drive and my input at the cranks effectively the bikes are 2 wheel drive which comes in handy in many situations such as steep and loose fire road climbs and using in super soft conditions like snow, mud or sand. As mentioned having a good torque arm system to keep the axle from spinning in the drops is a must but not rocket science to achieve. In fact one of my motors has a built in torque arm and is a direct drive unit that weighs on par with the geared type hub motors yet has the benefit of regen also. The ability to upgrade to new technology, as in batteries specifically and how I recently switched easily and relatively cheaply to the newer 2170 format, is a big factor for me personally. However I am knowledgable enough to be able to do my own installations and maintainence of the systems/bikes I use and the boys above are right about the fact that if you don't have a basic understanding the e assist concept and bike mechanical knowledge it is probably best to just go with an off the shelf complete bike hopefully backed by the service of a good shop.
Did you just say you've been riding the DJI Amflow bike for, "over a year"....and NO on-the-trail ride review yet?! 😠 This looks like it could be the holy grail combo of weight, power and design... Why has Sam, (Sam's Bikes), seem to be the only person on planet RUclips to be able to post a full actual trail ride review video that I can find?
I bought a Bafang unit and installed on a custom hardtail and just as Steve mentioned, the chain line was so bad that I couldn't shift into the easier gears. It is also rpm sensitive not torque sensitive so becomes a handful to ride in technical conditions. Finally gave in and bought a YT Decoy.
You sometimes need to use custom crank plates to get a good chain line with the Bafang. It's not one size/type fits all. The factory settings on the controller also leave a lot to be desired. Tweaking these settings (search for BBS/BBSHD hacking) can totally transform the feel of these kits. Eggrider is the easiest way of tweaking/testing the Bafang as you can do this via your mobile phone and test the new settings on the fly. The other way is using a cable and a laptop, which is a bit of a pain. A lot of people write the Bafang off prematurely because they only get to try the factory settings, which are a bit crap, especially for a mountain bike.
@@MrRockstar1968 You can't just exclaim a problem and when somebody points out the reason for the problem arrogantly tell them you already knew the reason 😂😂😂😂 rude
In the US it's about 20 mph and it starts to reduce power at about 18 mph . This is for a good reason. Most of those are used on bike paths that are designed for multiple use . They don't want any going over 20 mph on those and would prefer most of the traffic going more like 15 mph. That is because people are also using these to walk on and many people are also listening to music at the same time so they don't want people going 25 mph on them blasting past the sometimes unaware pedestrian traffic. It makes the inevitable collision less impact full. The difference between an impact at 15 is usually minor and at 25 isn't usually much more catastrophic. It's the difference between a trip to the ER and getting home on your own. That's why most municipalities only allow Class 1 ebikes on them. Even though I can ride faster than 18 mph on my regular road bike I would keep it 15 to 18 as a curtisy for the others especially when it's busy.
For Front hub it is the frames like the NEXT Power Climber that works well with front hub motor due to design of having center weight right behind the handle bars. Keeps wheels from peeling with better traction..
HI guys, GREAT BLOG, but I am an old pensioner/carer for my wife! I bought myself a bike to get my old frame back into shape! The ev ops you showed were great, but confusion for the likes of myself! I rode my bike to my bowling club, but having to dismount when coming to a hill!
I pondered converting a bike or going with a Bosch CX, ultimately deciding on the Bosch. I regret the decision every day since Bosch has been an absolute nightmare with serious mechanical issues (repeated error code 500 and continuous intermittent glitches that their software cannot diagnose, going on for almost two years now since I bought the bike new) and horrible warranty/customer service (Josh Parris, Bosch-employed factory mechanic, has had my bike for over four months months now trying to repair it). Since the frame is proprietary to the Bosch system I am stuck. Had I gone with a conversion it would simply be another component that could be changed or even removed. Hindsight is 20/20
Bosch are well known for poor reliability and they restrict the supply of parts to authorised dealers so all repairs can be expensive. They also make heavy use of plastic parts that limits the lifespan of the unit. Video channels like this are going to be sponsored by brands that use Bosch motors so you may not get that important information here but check out many forums for warnings. Bafang do some extremely good quality mid-mount units and spares are easily available plus you have a decent upgrade path. Choosing Bosch can deliver a great performing bike but it can be terrible with regards value and you may need frequent repairs.
@@bonzobanana1 Coming from an automotive background who has worked on Bosch engine management systems I should have known that Bosch would go out of their way way to restrict maintenance and repair to dealerships; the germans are infamous for this in the automotive world. I would have thought their diagnostic software would be much more capable, but a dealer gave me a tour of their proprietary software and it was useless for diagnosing my situation (intermittent issue). After several "Bosch-certified" dealers gave me huge bills without correcting the issue (warranty covers parts but not labor) I raised a huge stink and Bosch finally sent their top mechanic to fix my bike, but he is stumped. Five months after he picked up my bike it is yet to be returned. His name is Josh Parris (residence in Bedford, NH but travels throughout US training Bosch repair facilities) and he says has been working on replacing all parts related to the ebike system. Lawyers are likely going to be necessary to resolve this long overdue situation since Bosch and their agents keep stalling (Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, etc)
@@herethere2518 To be honest I've not heard of so many problems repairing a Bosch unit before but I've read issues where people paid huge bills and only a month or so later it failed again and I've also heard quite a few stories where they failed on first use or close to first use. I also heard of people simply writing off their bike because they wouldn't pay the excessive repair bill so they have just sold it for what they could get for it in non-working condition. You only have to look at the reliability index for cars and see German cars nowadays at the bottom overall for reliability but what is much worse is their excessive repair bills but look at car reviews and German cars are often scoring the best with the reviewers having little consideration for the long term reliability and costs of those cars. I personally prefer Japanese cars and engineering quality. Anyway best of luck with solving your situation.
I tried the battery in the backpack idea...once. Batteries clearly need air flow to keep cool. After a 2hr jaunt, battery was almost too hot to touch. Not only would this lead to premature failure but fire is a possibility. Would've been great as it made the bike easier to.lift over gates and sty's, but it is getting mounted on the frame when I get chance next week.
I'm over here in the USA. I've got several Townie Electra Bicycles (not electric). Love the ergonomics of them....want to convert one to Electric. Can you recommend a front drive/battery system? Any other comments would be appreciated.
I added 750w bafang mid-drive motor to my e-bike with a 48v battery and it rides like a dream I've tried a little off road on my other ebike but it has fat tyres but have a mountain bike is so much better 😀
Any mention of braking systems on the other, non magneto, tyre hub would be helpful as you’re adding an impeller with extra weight to the whole chassis.
8:02 24 years LOL converted a Gary Fisher mountain. Bike looked like the exact Kit.. are showing right there I burned through 2 Rear. Tres in the 1st month. I'm back cycling.
The single biggest thing to consider for any hub motor kit is a torque arrestor to prevent axle spin in the drop out. The Chinese cheap ones are crap. I made one out of 3/16 CroMo plate and it works beautifully. I think you guys really underestimate the mechanical abilities of riders. Most kits are really simple and make the electronics stupid easy. I have experienced mt bikers with crazy skills when it comes to their bikes. With that said; it seems you want to make kits to sound less than user friendly. Like with the older vid of the battery falling out of the bike on the trail. (You do know they all have pinned locks to prevent that.) I seriously hope this is simple bias and not deliberate propaganda. The other issue is; you are always leaning toward high price units as the norm. And NEVER review the LUNA X-1 at half the cost and more power.
EMBM, you guys are great! Not all can do it, but you're also good teachers, have good educator abilities too! You advise from experience, give examples from actual testing, mention costs (so many don't), and even go to the electric bike fairs to keep abreast of new innovations. You counted 156 mid-mount bike companies! Is that a sign that mid-mount is the better overall choice? I plan to commute 100% as I do now with a regular bike, plus ride mine with pedal assist for cardio exercise, and use pedal assist to save on battery power and range, and to load up my bike and go on very significant long distance camping/biking trips. I weigh 270lbs and would carry 4 side bags... front and back. I'd rarely go on back trails... maybe just to camp in a more remote/quiet location. Would a mid-mount be the best choice in my case? My regular bike has "V" brakes, are those good enough, or should I find a used bike with disk brakes? Thanks for all you do, you got a "Like" and "Subscribe" from me! Advice/ideas from any others is welcome too!
Look, I have the Aston Rider mid-engine and I've been using it quite well. I have changed it from my folding 16 wheel to 26 mtb and now into a 24. My husband changes the kit in a few moments by tightening one screw/nut, everything is connected and the screen has a cell phone charger
Great info! I have a question though. A lot of these kits seem to include soooooo many different parts. I don't want to have special brakes with sensors here and there simply because it looks so DIY with all the wires. If I just want to have a rear hub motor, the battery, and a throttle, would a kit work without the sensors, displays, "speed checking magnet", water boiler, usb cup warmer, microwave and all the other stuff that these kits seem to include? My bike is from the mid-1900s and would like to have as little junk as possible.
If you have a throttle, you need the break sensors to stop the motor when the bike stops. If you don't, there is the risk of breaking at the same time as the throttle is on and destroying something.
great vid chaps! u mention mid drive is much better for hills... what about the rear hub drive u fitted to your hard tail? seems like the easiest way to go... however i do like to ride up steep hills to then down hill (i have a reasonably decent hard tail merida). i dont need anything fancy as long as it just gets me up the hills instead of walking which invetiably happens on a long day ride. do u also recommend pedal assist? or push button throttle?
What electrical knowhow do you need to plug cables in? I have found the mechanical knowhow and specialist bike tools needed, far more of an issue. Just ordered a TSDZ2 torque sensing mid motor, because I don't want an electric moped and it's lighter and cheaper than the Bafang. Anyone know how to fix the Q factor on it?
@man0z I read the Bafang cranks were crap, plus I only have short legs so would like some 165 0r 160mm ones ? Does it still need tape? The motor has changed so much in the last 18 months....
@@davehollows7681 Thanks, but I am poor :( and unemployed :) I have just test fitted the motor and cranks. Much to my surprise the left hand side is spot on but the right side is a million miles out even with a 0 q bafang :( Turns out the specs for my bike lied, and I have 170mm cranks not the 165mm the claimed. Is there such thing as a negative Q crank?
@@MaximC The Bafang is a moped - no need to pedal. The TSDZ2 is like a shop bought ebike - it adds to the work you do. Both are plenty powerful enough. Oh, I almost forgot...... I opened the motor and re greased everything - no sign of water ingress despite it being submerged in water and mud over the winter.
As a Bafang mid drive rider on a converted hardtail, I would point out one very large difference between all of these retrofit kits and a purpose built eMTB. And that is pedal torque sensing. Not aware of any kit that has that. Pedal sensor and pedal assist, technically yes, but that only means it senses whether the pedals are turning, not how hard. Without a torque sensor I am constantly poking the power level up-down buttons to regulate the power delivery in hilly terrain. No one, it seems, has figured out how to get a true torque sensor into the mid-drive kits that go into an existing bottom bracket. I rode a purpose built Haibike and the torque sensor made a tremendous difference. You could mostly just set one of three power assist levels and forget it and ride. I sure would love to see this integrated into a kit.
The Tongsheng TSDZ2 mid drive (750w/52v) running the latest open source firmware is a solid competitor to any of the big name mid drives IMHO. Especially when price is taken into consideration. I have run two of these TSDZ2's over the last couple of years now, on different frames and as the firmware has improved along with the ability to customise the specs I have found them great for tinkering which is great if you like that sort of thing. Please note I also have a 1500w hub drive 29er as well but this unit is really only for commuting running slicks as it's not the best for off road/mtb as the weight coming off jumps etc is pretty hairy.
Converting an old MTB is a good idea - in theory. What people need to consider is are the brakes adequate, is the chain and cassette in good condition (replacing those adds to the cost... are the tubes and tyres still good (many old bikes are parked due to mechanical issues... and tyres can rot out in a year or two... to make conversions safe, esp. with the extra weight and speed can cost a lot more than a new cheap e-bike - and the new bike will come with dic brakes, be engineered for the weight, probably with a front suspension fork, better tyres etc... pouring money into converting a cheap, old, potentially badly maintained bike is not good sense... Of course, if you have a great condition old bike that is good quality, then it is an option, but still consider the maintenance needed to bring it up to spec and safe condition... You still get a thumbs up for talking about the subject, we can't all afford the price of a new car or motorcycle to buy a pushbike with a motor...
One of my local bike shops will be offering to do e bike conversions in the near future. Mixed reviews so far from the mechanics on whether it is a good idea or not.
Great video! If you are lucky enough to work for an employer that offers the tax-free cyclescheme, you could probably get a low-end off the shelf e-bike for less that the cost of a conversion kit (unless you can wangle a way of getting the kit through the cyclescheme). Looking at converting my wife’s bike for her.
I'm looking to convert a cheap second hand bike. I've not owned a bike for several years. My main use would be for commuting and 'fun' rides (not mountain biking). I have limited technical ability, although my son-in-law is a motor mechanic. I want to keep the cost as low as possible, would you say the 'plug and play' rear hub drive is my best option? Ive only just come across your channel (watching Ray do his barefoot engineering!) Keep up the good work 👍🏻
Hi loved your video. Can I ask this lower priced, easy fit rear hub will be good enough for cycling up hills on the road. I have similar bike as shown. Many thanks
I built a bike using a Bafang BBS01B @@@ watt motor with a 36v 13amp hour battery bolted on the down tube. I also upgraded everthing on the bike with brand new equipmentt including brakes, suspension forks wider tyres, gearing and it cost me approx £1000
I just picked up a freebie very rusted chain left out in the rain but nice model late 90's early oughts East Peak frs by Marin bikes, a very nice full suspension aluminum frame with mounting holes for disc brakes (but still has rim brakes). It is a great find for building an ebike on except the wheels are still in very good condition and I think I am just going to ride it as is (after a little rust cleanup on the cassette and a fresh chain and a little tune up). I understand you need wheels that have disc brake mounts and I am loathe to give up these nice wheels. Question arises: do most of the hub kits have disc brakes mounts? How do I look for that? Any advice? As, If I am going up to 1000 watts for hill climbing, I am also going to want disc brakes. I think rim brakes are ok only for low watt assists.
Just about all the front hub kits here in Oz have the battery built in to the hub itself. They also have a USB port built in for charging yet the kits here all have a separate battery set up.
I wish I could add a mid-drive kit to my MTB but as a live in South London, it's already difficult enough to secure just the bike when I go out let alone another £700 ish in kit.
Great video. Very helpful. I have a cheap bike which I have had for eleven years. Do I want to spend the amount of money to electrify it, or a bike off the shelf. A dilemma.
Very nice! and thanks. One question, does the legal limit of the motor, @ 250 watts, to keep "Street Legal" apply to the whole bike, or could one fit a 250 watt motor, to the front wheel, and anther 250 watt motor, to the back wheel, and still be "Street Legal"? Thanks, once again.
According to federal regulations you can have 750W per motor. It would also be VERY heavy, three motors and three sets of batteries. Better jut to go with one 750W set up
What about carbon fibre bikes? I have a santacruz blur xc and would the mounting of batteries and motors strain areas on the frame that weren’t meant to have weight or stress?
AliExpress is your friend. Around £300 all in for a 3kw rear hub kit including battery. 40 or so mph. A lot of these kits in the video are just rebranded and come from the same Chinese sweatshops.
I don't think it's right. I just searched and first of all no 3kw to be found, 1,5kw costs 260 euros (PLUS import duties), + battery min 300 euro (PLUS import duties).
i built my own 48v 1000w rear hub lcd kit a few years ago now, first i had 10c 12s multistar 20,000mah. they puffed after a year or two, now i use 12s turnigy 60c 5000mah. bike still weighs a metric ton. still hauls ass. only runs for about a 12km ride, or 1hr. so will have to take a normal bike on day trips.
Great channel.I have a gen 2 with pillar battery. Is there any chance you could go through the pros and cons of adding the rack Mount battery to increase the range? (and maybe how to do this work) :-) thanks!
Hi, can I put rear hub motor in my bike wich already have Bosch mid drive system. I would like to have more torque, soo i would put rear hub motor and additional battery. Tnx for answer
I would like a small motor just to make toting around a toddler trailer with twins easier and faster. What can I find for my cruiser that I can kind of just plug and go? Is there a weight limit?
...any chance that you guys have any extra kits you don’t need/use? 😶 would love to upgrade a bmx bike to help save for a car to sleep in while attending classes for my dream job (oil refinery)!
Hello there I really enjoyed all your videos and I have a question for you. I'm planning to buy my e-bike kit from Amazon. So what I'm doing is buying a foldup bike from Amazon then purchasing a ebike motor kit. Problem is I want to buy a front ebike motor because I want as little modifications and simple installation as possible. The problem I have is a fold-up bike on buying from Amazon has the disc brake on the front tire. Is there a rear brake part make a note that I need to purchase since the e-bike motor is the front tire? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
One thing to add, you'll still pick up punctures, and on an ebike this can be a chore . The product 'Green Slime' is a self sealing compound you can put in your inner tubes. Also I would also I nvest in puncture proof tires.
Dear Electric Mountain Bike Network I want to convert my city bike into an ebike and I’ve looked at a lot of front hub motor wheels, but then I realized that my bike has “roller brakes” and I’m not sure what to do now. Do I have to by a special hub motor wheel if I still want to use my front break or what would you recommend? Kind regards Anders
I'm not sure if an answer still helps, but you have to replace the fork in this case. You have to have a fork for a rim or disc brake, depending on the type of hub motor and rim you use
I have a 10 speed with very narrow tires. Would putting on a fatter tire that comes with the e-bike kit cause the bicycle to not track or ride properly? thanks
Hi gentlemen, as some of us are bigger or just a tad on the heavier side and ride heavier built bikes because of that, and remaining street legal with a tiny 250 watt motor and enough torque to get the job adequately done can be a challenge. So what motors or kits in the respective categories, wheel hub or mid drive have the best torque rating do you think? Thanks in advance.
I have an old giant I was thinking of converting, instead of buying a rad or aventón. I do worry about the old parts (brakes, gears, frame...) being able to stand up to the stresses placed upon them ( I’m 300 lbs, 21.5 stone), and adding the weight and forces to it in a way it wasn’t designed for. Is that a problem?
I fitted a mid drive kit on my 12 year old mtb I have to disagree about someone being competent enough to fit one. If you can do basic bike maintenance you can fit a kit. I've had mine a year. The two most important aspects I found for them is how much power do you want ie motor wattage & what range you want, I went for a 750w motor I'm a heavy guy & it pulls me up the steepest hills also the range you need my 52v 20ah battery gives my total 140kg ride weigh 30 miles range on one charge roughly dependent on several factors such as wind speed, hills & ride speed (I like to go fast!)
I’ve been looking to buy one of these for a month did little bit search to figure out the cost of having e-bike but i’ve decided to renew my motorcycle insurance ... $62 monthly.
what would you recommend for a throttle assist MTB that you can buy off the shelf and whats the best centre crank driven bike please? Im looking for a bike that can cope with the above with a reasonable range and 20-25mph at times. i have heard the rear hub drives burn out, is this correct?
Interesting video .Cheers lads .I'm in the middle of building a cyclotricity 250/1000 dual power bike from a montague paratrooper .Bit of head scratching but coming on nicely .Ps don't carry your battery in a backpack .Its a nice way to snap your spine if you come flying off and land the wrong way .A water bottle in a backpack was responsible for a snapped spine last year ... .....Yip.
Just need a throttle, speedcontroller, battery and a motor (make sure to disable regenerative breaking) And then just need a pulley system easy to design or find one online and send it off to be printed or cut
Built my first one 40 years ago with an old starter motor and a trailer to carry heavy old car batteries .Was pretty crap and every one laughed and said that will never catch on. last year I fitted a kit and it's awesome.
I'd like to see more conversion kits on the show. For many of us our first experience of ebikes is through kits. My mountain bike lay in the shed for 15 years rarely ridden until I fitted my first kit. Now I'm riding hundreds of miles each year.
Same. I've even got into DIY solar tech after the eBike kit upgrade. A few hundred quid later and I haven't charged anything with a battery of the mains since. Love it! :)
What kit did you use? Thanks and stay safe
Rode 2000 miles in 10 months 👍
@@pau1phi11ips could I ask what kit you used for bike and what kit for solar please
I built a 1300w 48v 16ah rear-drive on a 29” Shwinn MTB. On throttle only it will go 15 miles with a Max speed of 27mph. I’m 6’4” @ 260lbs. It cost me $1,450.00 and I’ve put about 1,300 miles on it so far. If you are going to build your 1st ebike make sure you already have a good set of tools that encompasses all parts of the bike. Have a decent air pump as well. If you are a larger person invest in a larger thicker tire, with the added weight of the kit it’s easy to get flats from snake bites or bottoming out on the rim. Try to find a bike with at least a front suspension so you don’t get bounced around as much on your ride. If you value your life upgrade the stock brakes, you are carrying so much more weight and forward-energy the stopping distance can be much greater at high speeds. Cars and pedestrians are not used to seeing a bicycle moving at these higher speeds and just pull out in front of you thinking that you were going much slower. Furthermore you gotta get creative in trying to iron out the details installation. Mounting everything securely can be tricky. You also need to know the type of power connector from the battery wire, it needs to match the computer/controller. Mine was different but my local hobby shop soldered the correct one on for $5.00. Finally as this is electric there is going to be downtime for charging, most batteries come with 2 Amp-Hour charger which is fine but if you ride a lot invest in a better one or an extra battery.
Best Regards
i plan on building my own bike and with my knowledge of rc cars, i am confident i can build my own batteries and will have several built. question: what and if you had to make one change in your build what would it be? personally i want to go more than 15 miles, maybe closer to 60 and i'm built about like you but a tad lighter and that tells me i need maybe 48v 64ah
@@jasonbrown467 The prices for building your own large batteries has gone way down in the last year. Along with newer, easier techniques for putting them together. You should have no problem once you get the parts together.
If I were to change one thing about my build now that I’ve had it a while, it would be to change over from a rear hub drive to a front hub drive. When you get a flat or just need to take the wheel off for what ever reason it can be a time consuming process as you have to remove the torque arm. Then when you get the wheel off and fix whatever the problem is and put the wheel back on you’ll have to fine tune the derailleur so the shifting is accurate. Then put the torque arm back on so you don’t snap the drop-ins under full power stress. In my opinion any maintenance will just be easier with the motor up front.
On another note either go with a tubeless tire or a robust standard tire. If you don’t you will regret it. Flats are very common with the added weight.
Good luck to you. Once you get everything ironed out it’s so much fun. Best Regards.
@@caseyalexander1705 excellent info, yeah i have been eye balling these electric bikes since about 2013 or so, and i can see prices on everything has come way down.
i see the batteries are cheaper but still very expensive and i should have known with my rc and solar experience, but its worth it
i plan to live on my bike, ride to work, hit the trails etc etc. i can see me becoming obsessed and saving about $300usd a month in fuel expenses. i still want to get at least two big batteries, maybe three, and leave on at my office on the charger to swap out. man i cant wait.
good call on the rear hub vs the front and bigger tires, but i still may do the rear anyways, hell at one point i was going to do both lol.
Yeah tell me about it, I actually got a fat tire with a 250W, the upgraded it to 350w (rear drives), with all the bits, then currently trying to mount a 1000w bcause I need it to go uphill better, but the derailer hits the box because the motor is wider, I am quite stuck. Problem is, maybe they are all equally as crap, but they are not all the same, different battery plugs or configuration, it's a bit like PCs you never get one perfectly working properly because it requires an R&D you can't afford. I have given up building computers and got an HP workstation, it's flawless. I might get an expensive one that work well, I and fed up of all the junk it even generates.
I built a class 4 ebike about 8 months ago. That means I have no PAS system. I do 30mph with ease. I can go well over 30 under the right conditions. Keep in mind, just because I can go that fast doesn’t mean I always do. I have and do push the limits of my bike often, that does mean I take mountain gravel roads and trails that dirt bikes are on. I also have had multiple problems come up and had to learn a ton about every component involved. Ive had to find answers to problems even the experts that sell and work on the expensive ebikes don’t know the answer to. I’ve had to learn the hard way, many times those same people have been completely wrong. It seems they always advise the most expensive way to find and fix the problem first, even if they aren’t going to be making any money out of it.
At this point the only original parts from when i began this journey are my battery and my motor.
On my rear hub motor my disk break is attached directly onto the motor.
When you’re going down a steep hill or slowing down from higher speeds that disk break is going to get hot. Extremely hot. In turn that disk break is going to make your motor hub hot too. And as you work the motor going up it stays hot and back and fourth. This heat, I now believe can travel from that disk break, make the motor hotter than it would be, and follow the power lines, all of them, back to the controller, and even into the throttle.
There is a plastic connector for the 5/6 wire connection of the hall connection and such. I’ve melted that twice. I had melted it the first time and had a ebike shop fix it for me. They told me I had been taxing the battery too much going up hill. Unknown to me they replaced it with the same part than wrapped it in a bike inner tube and made it look like it had been heat shrunken. I was pretty mad when it melted again. There’s more to that but I digress.
I fixed that by hard wiring that connection and insulating it. No plastic to melt.
I rode very hard on some mountain passes yesterday. My throttle went out for the second time, but I wasn’t aware of it until this morning. I took both thumb throttles apart. The wires were broken in the same spot in both. Either the wires are arcing. Or my theory about heat building up through the wires as a result of the disk break getting hot. Or. As a 3rd very real possibility, the parts are just made cheep. I did some research and found that the throttle I payed $37 for 2 times. Is sold on the web for $7. Just sold under a different name. I have what that store called a beefier throttle now, and my bike is running, they gave me this throttle for free. I’m not hopeful it will last and plan to replace it.
My plan is to go to a scooter or motorcycle shop and find a heat gasket to put in between the motor and the disk break. No idea if it will help. But I hope so. Let me know what you think or if you have any ideas. Thanks in advance.
26” 1000w 48a rear hub motor
I don't think going fast with a bicycle is ever a good idea, but you forge that in your flesh as a kid normally; however I want the bike to go uphill easily, because, still as a kid, I noticed one other thing too: going downhill with a bicycle, the whole Paradise helps you, going uphill less so.
My 4 year old can fit these conversion kits with blindfold and one arm tied behind his back. These guys make it sound more complicated than it is. Just go ahead and do it, it's so easy.
is it? im wondering if i should buy a kit..
A lot of the hub kits are mounted to 26" MTB wheels - it is one way to revive that retro mountain bike that''s not doing too much in the shed! I made a video about an old Raleigh bike that has been given new e-bike powers.
Yeah there usually be 1000s of bits laying around in sheds
Video link please
Good to see this post. the Bafang mid drive works really well for commuting and hacking around the streets. Not a difficult install but the difference for me is in keeping the cables managed and neat it makes a big difference to the look of the conversion. So many conversions look terrible with wires everywhere.
There is a German company out there selling custom-sized harnesses (you can input your own cable lengths for each bit and choose if you need sensor cables, throttle cable, etc). It helps a LOT to get a super clean install for BBS motors.
Did he say fires or wires?
Koharu ebike kit-Refitted but as neat as original.
Good point about the looks of the installation, that's what sent me down the Rabbit Hole. Anyone with normal mechanical skill can probably achieve a working e-bike conversion in a couple of days. I did, thinking first make the thing work, then change what you don't like and make a nice cable routing... Bought the kit three or four years ago and the bike isn't finished to this day! I was in my garage today and it stared at me! Really, the only thing left to do is route all the cables into the pannier and hide the controller there. And of course some minor things. My holiday just started, maybe... At least it won't look like sh*t when (if) it's finished.
Has anyone ever considered strapping all 3 motors to a bike? It would be interesting to see how steep a climb it could take you up!
Go on Steve, build it!
computerbob06 might be a little heavy if you have to carry it around train stations, but otherwise I would like to see how it would perform.
3 motors is wildly inefficient: Weighs a ton(3 motors, 3 controllers), drains your battery faster than you can empty a bag of M&Ms, rear wheel might have trouble keeping grip especially on loose grond(sand, gravel etc) cuz of the double output and it's going to set you back nearly 3 times the price of a normal kit. Also I'm not sure whether a normal frame is up to the torque of being both rear-hubbed and mid-motored, unleashing double amounts of power will probably cause fatigue or bending. It might launch you to light speed immediately though, but it won't do so for long before requiring recharge.
Your results would be a lot better with just 2 motors: one for the front, one for the back, be it rear-hubbed or mid-motored. There's little point in having 2 motors outputting on the same wheel, it would be more efficient to install a bigger single motor.
2 x 3000 watt hub motors, Crystalyte 3540's, you dont need a third... even 2 @ 1500 watts each is plenty for most people. 2 x 10,000 watt Crystalyte motors.... I did that 10 years ago.... and that is just, insane.... and I only ran them at 5kw each, smoke the tires off pretty much....back then the battery tech was not as good and the controllers.... way too expensive to push 10kw regularly and I really didnt need any more concussion's after 12.... 3 before the age of 5.... what can I say, if it goes fast, wheels, tracks, hulls, ski's.... you name it, I've been on it and probably crashed it once or twice...
@@larrymacdonald4241 I had a single HS3540 with a 74v 40a controller custom build bike and that thing went like shit off a shovel! Back in 2011 I think. What you had sounds beyond insane ahaha
I thought about a front and rear hub motor and have them pointing in opposite directions.
Bafang 750watt mid drive brilliant ive over 7000 km.
On my Giant Roam conversation.
I started with a little 250watt front motor conversation from a Chinese company called Lvbu .
Still in use on my old Marin.
Its excellent as well.
Good info....U.S. commenter here.....I considered a conversion and it is important to take one big thing into account..... if your "donor" bike does not have disc-style brakes that might be a problem...."squeeze" brakes offer less stopping power. That equates to less safety especially at 20+ MPH.....so you'll have to replace them (the entire wheel) or install rotors and new brake hardware on existing wheels.... more money and skill required.....overall if you are new to this consider a modestly priced pre-build (which you will fall in love with...trust me). If you keep it in decent shape you can re-sell it at a fair price.... then either build or buy the bike with the performance and features you want from the experience gained from your first e-bike experience
As an early adopter of e assist, first one was 2001, the only options available were kits or 250w EU/Japanese reg eBikes with front or rear hub or the mid drive units from Panasonic, Yamaha etc. that were low on power and range. The biggest drawback was the battery technology which at that time was likely to be SLA or at best NIMH. The first conversion I did was a Currie system that had the drive unit attached to the rear end. Currie btw eventually ended up being bought by ACCELL and becoming the US distributor for Haibike and a major player in the development of the Class laws here in the US. The potential was there but the batteries didn't provide the amount of amps to power a bike up nor the ah's for a very long ride. Cadence sensing PAS were as much garbage then as now so throttles, legal here in the US, were actually preferable. Keeping track of the development over the years it wasn't until Lithium batteries made the scene that eBikes, whether kit or branded complete bikes, were developed that would provide enough amps and wh's that finally unleashed the potential of eBikes to the larger market. The cost was high for the new battery chemistry but cost per wh has dropped considerably since. As an example my first LiFePo4 battery was $600 shaped like a cement block and @ 48v provided a bit over 500wh's whereas my latest battery purchase cost me $400 and is a 48v, 18ah (864wh) 2170 cell in the what is known as an HL style down tube mount style. At this point I have three 48v 2170 batteries, 12ah, 15ah and 18ah to choose from depending on the amount of ride time given the terrain I am riding that I can switch between my 3 eBikes, 2 front hub drop bar road and 1 mid drive MTB, for less than $1500.
As I mentioned cadence sensing PAS is shite and will feel unnatural to a real cyclist in that the way it controls the speed is not always relative to the amount of effort you want to put into the pedals. Torque assist systems are far preferable but limited in selection for kit units to a few mid drive models, I use the TSDZ2 and find it to be on par with the big players on that level and cheap to buy @$350 or so but also a bit skimpy in regards to their bb bearings and the fact they have a square taper spindle and take some maneuvering to get a decent chainline due to the drive side offset, or a torque sensing bb in conjunction with a hub motor. Due to the EU regs regarding no throttles that has never been an issue for us here and I have found it to be a useful tool also. They get a bad rap but are actually a very useful item for starting off and blipping on the odd occasion to maintain momentum in say a rock garden where pedal strikes are an issue. I would say in an average 30 mile 3000' elevation gain ride I use the throttle for less than 500' but having it there when I need has become part of what I expect of an eBike when I am riding and works a treat. The assumption that once a throttle is installed it is used to exclusivity is laughable to me actually although I do see people at time utilizing that feature but consider it to be their loss as pedaling is the best part of the trip.
My kit based front hub drop bar bikes which I use on all terrains actually and have from sea level to 12,000' are throttle only but can be set as a "cruise control" at the infinite range of watts within the system using a Cycle Analyst display that goes way deeper into being able to tailor the controllers output parameters than any other display I know of but is on analog level compared to the App based systems from the big players or companies like GreyP.. However much I like the TA on my eMTB for the road I prefer to tailor the amount of assist to my desired cadence/physical input without any "magic leg" effect at the drive train. It has become a personal preference and wouldn't trade it for any of the drop bar bikes that are now becoming popular. Because of the front hub drive and my input at the cranks effectively the bikes are 2 wheel drive which comes in handy in many situations such as steep and loose fire road climbs and using in super soft conditions like snow, mud or sand. As mentioned having a good torque arm system to keep the axle from spinning in the drops is a must but not rocket science to achieve. In fact one of my motors has a built in torque arm and is a direct drive unit that weighs on par with the geared type hub motors yet has the benefit of regen also.
The ability to upgrade to new technology, as in batteries specifically and how I recently switched easily and relatively cheaply to the newer 2170 format, is a big factor for me personally. However I am knowledgable enough to be able to do my own installations and maintainence of the systems/bikes I use and the boys above are right about the fact that if you don't have a basic understanding the e assist concept and bike mechanical knowledge it is probably best to just go with an off the shelf complete bike hopefully backed by the service of a good shop.
just like to say I’ve been watching RUclips ever since it first came out and never before have I watched a video which was so helpful - great job guys
Just started searching for E Bike and didn't know what would work best for my situation. Helpful information. Thanks guys!😎
Did you just say you've been riding the DJI Amflow bike for, "over a year"....and NO on-the-trail ride review yet?! 😠
This looks like it could be the holy grail combo of weight, power and design... Why has Sam, (Sam's Bikes), seem to be the only person on planet RUclips to be able to post a full actual trail ride review video that I can find?
Great show fellas and good to see you looking at some cheap stuff👍
Thanks Alan! 👍
Without being critical
I bought a Bafang unit and installed on a custom hardtail and just as Steve mentioned, the chain line was so bad that I couldn't shift into the easier gears. It is also rpm sensitive not torque sensitive so becomes a handful to ride in technical conditions. Finally gave in and bought a YT Decoy.
You sometimes need to use custom crank plates to get a good chain line with the Bafang.
It's not one size/type fits all.
The factory settings on the controller also leave a lot to be desired.
Tweaking these settings (search for BBS/BBSHD hacking) can totally transform the feel of these kits.
Eggrider is the easiest way of tweaking/testing the Bafang as you can do this via your mobile phone and test the new settings on the fly.
The other way is using a cable and a laptop, which is a bit of a pain.
A lot of people write the Bafang off prematurely because they only get to try the factory settings, which are a bit crap, especially for a mountain bike.
The problem with most manufactured e-bikes is that they generally only go up to 15 mph.
If I'm not mistaken that's because of eu regulation, which limits their max power and speed.
@@rfldss89 Yeah I already know why.
@@MrRockstar1968 You can't just exclaim a problem and when somebody points out the reason for the problem arrogantly tell them you already knew the reason 😂😂😂😂 rude
@@rfldss89true! Very good point meeladdo failed to mention. He also got the speed wrong 😂
In the US it's about 20 mph and it starts to reduce power at about 18 mph . This is for a good reason. Most of those are used on bike paths that are designed for multiple use . They don't want any going over 20 mph on those and would prefer most of the traffic going more like 15 mph. That is because people are also using these to walk on and many people are also listening to music at the same time so they don't want people going 25 mph on them blasting past the sometimes unaware pedestrian traffic. It makes the inevitable collision less impact full. The difference between an impact at 15 is usually minor and at 25 isn't usually much more catastrophic. It's the difference between a trip to the ER and getting home on your own. That's why most municipalities only allow Class 1 ebikes on them. Even though I can ride faster than 18 mph on my regular road bike I would keep it 15 to 18 as a curtisy for the others especially when it's busy.
For Front hub it is the frames like the NEXT Power Climber that works well with front hub motor due to design of having center weight right behind the handle bars. Keeps wheels from peeling with better traction..
I would have loved to hear anything at all related to the risks of conversion: broken forks, frames etc.
HI guys, GREAT BLOG, but I am an old pensioner/carer for my wife! I bought myself a bike to get my old frame back into shape! The ev ops you showed were great, but confusion for the likes of myself! I rode my bike to my bowling club, but having to dismount when coming to a hill!
DIY ebike kits are where its at ! #ThumbThrottle
The crucial question about any kit is this: When something on this kit malfunctions, does it exist as a spare ? (from the same or compatible brands)
I pondered converting a bike or going with a Bosch CX, ultimately deciding on the Bosch. I regret the decision every day since Bosch has been an absolute nightmare with serious mechanical issues (repeated error code 500 and continuous intermittent glitches that their software cannot diagnose, going on for almost two years now since I bought the bike new) and horrible warranty/customer service (Josh Parris, Bosch-employed factory mechanic, has had my bike for over four months months now trying to repair it). Since the frame is proprietary to the Bosch system I am stuck. Had I gone with a conversion it would simply be another component that could be changed or even removed. Hindsight is 20/20
Bosch are well known for poor reliability and they restrict the supply of parts to authorised dealers so all repairs can be expensive. They also make heavy use of plastic parts that limits the lifespan of the unit. Video channels like this are going to be sponsored by brands that use Bosch motors so you may not get that important information here but check out many forums for warnings. Bafang do some extremely good quality mid-mount units and spares are easily available plus you have a decent upgrade path. Choosing Bosch can deliver a great performing bike but it can be terrible with regards value and you may need frequent repairs.
Hind sight may be 20/20 but love is blind
@@bonzobanana1 Coming from an automotive background who has worked on Bosch engine management systems I should have known that Bosch would go out of their way way to restrict maintenance and repair to dealerships; the germans are infamous for this in the automotive world. I would have thought their diagnostic software would be much more capable, but a dealer gave me a tour of their proprietary software and it was useless for diagnosing my situation (intermittent issue). After several "Bosch-certified" dealers gave me huge bills without correcting the issue (warranty covers parts but not labor) I raised a huge stink and Bosch finally sent their top mechanic to fix my bike, but he is stumped. Five months after he picked up my bike it is yet to be returned. His name is Josh Parris (residence in Bedford, NH but travels throughout US training Bosch repair facilities) and he says has been working on replacing all parts related to the ebike system. Lawyers are likely going to be necessary to resolve this long overdue situation since Bosch and their agents keep stalling (Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, etc)
@@herethere2518 To be honest I've not heard of so many problems repairing a Bosch unit before but I've read issues where people paid huge bills and only a month or so later it failed again and I've also heard quite a few stories where they failed on first use or close to first use. I also heard of people simply writing off their bike because they wouldn't pay the excessive repair bill so they have just sold it for what they could get for it in non-working condition. You only have to look at the reliability index for cars and see German cars nowadays at the bottom overall for reliability but what is much worse is their excessive repair bills but look at car reviews and German cars are often scoring the best with the reviewers having little consideration for the long term reliability and costs of those cars. I personally prefer Japanese cars and engineering quality. Anyway best of luck with solving your situation.
I tried the battery in the backpack idea...once. Batteries clearly need air flow to keep cool. After a 2hr jaunt, battery was almost too hot to touch. Not only would this lead to premature failure but fire is a possibility. Would've been great as it made the bike easier to.lift over gates and sty's, but it is getting mounted on the frame when I get chance next week.
I'm over here in the USA. I've got several Townie Electra Bicycles (not electric). Love the ergonomics of them....want to convert one to Electric. Can you recommend a front drive/battery system? Any other comments would be appreciated.
I added 750w bafang mid-drive motor to my e-bike with a 48v battery and it rides like a dream I've tried a little off road on my other ebike but it has fat tyres but have a mountain bike is so much better 😀
Any mention of braking systems on the other, non magneto, tyre hub would be helpful as you’re adding an impeller with extra weight to the whole chassis.
8:02 24 years LOL converted a Gary Fisher mountain. Bike looked like the exact Kit.. are showing right there I burned through 2 Rear. Tres in the 1st month. I'm back cycling.
would appreciate a review of IMORTOR front wheel (motor and battery).
or alternative.
The single biggest thing to consider for any hub motor kit is a torque arrestor to prevent axle spin in the drop out. The Chinese cheap ones are crap. I made one out of 3/16 CroMo plate and it works beautifully. I think you guys really underestimate the mechanical abilities of riders. Most kits are really simple and make the electronics stupid easy. I have experienced mt bikers with crazy skills when it comes to their bikes.
With that said; it seems you want to make kits to sound less than user friendly. Like with the older vid of the battery falling out of the bike on the trail. (You do know they all have pinned locks to prevent that.) I seriously hope this is simple bias and not deliberate propaganda.
The other issue is; you are always leaning toward high price units as the norm. And NEVER review the LUNA X-1 at half the cost and more power.
EMBM, you guys are great! Not all can do it, but you're also good teachers, have good educator abilities too! You advise from experience, give examples from actual testing, mention costs (so many don't), and even go to the electric bike fairs to keep abreast of new innovations. You counted 156 mid-mount bike companies! Is that a sign that mid-mount is the better overall choice? I plan to commute 100% as I do now with a regular bike, plus ride mine with pedal assist for cardio exercise, and use pedal assist to save on battery power and range, and to load up my bike and go on very significant long distance camping/biking trips. I weigh 270lbs and would carry 4 side bags... front and back. I'd rarely go on back trails... maybe just to camp in a more remote/quiet location. Would a mid-mount be the best choice in my case? My regular bike has "V" brakes, are those good enough, or should I find a used bike with disk brakes? Thanks for all you do, you got a "Like" and "Subscribe" from me! Advice/ideas from any others is welcome too!
Look, I have the Aston Rider mid-engine and I've been using it quite well. I have changed it from my folding 16 wheel to 26 mtb and now into a 24. My husband changes the kit in a few moments by tightening one screw/nut, everything is connected and the screen has a cell phone charger
Great info! I have a question though. A lot of these kits seem to include soooooo many different parts. I don't want to have special brakes with sensors here and there simply because it looks so DIY with all the wires. If I just want to have a rear hub motor, the battery, and a throttle, would a kit work without the sensors, displays, "speed checking magnet", water boiler, usb cup warmer, microwave and all the other stuff that these kits seem to include? My bike is from the mid-1900s and would like to have as little junk as possible.
Speed sensor is a must have, Brake sensors are not
If you have a throttle, you need the break sensors to stop the motor when the bike stops.
If you don't, there is the risk of breaking at the same time as the throttle is on and destroying something.
great vid chaps! u mention mid drive is much better for hills... what about the rear hub drive u fitted to your hard tail? seems like the easiest way to go... however i do like to ride up steep hills to then down hill (i have a reasonably decent hard tail merida). i dont need anything fancy as long as it just gets me up the hills instead of walking which invetiably happens on a long day ride. do u also recommend pedal assist? or push button throttle?
What electrical knowhow do you need to plug cables in?
I have found the mechanical knowhow and specialist bike tools needed, far more of an issue.
Just ordered a TSDZ2 torque sensing mid motor, because I don't want an electric moped and it's lighter and cheaper than the Bafang.
Anyone know how to fix the Q factor on it?
@man0z
I read the Bafang cranks were crap, plus I only have short legs so would like some 165 0r 160mm ones ?
Does it still need tape? The motor has changed so much in the last 18 months....
Lekkie buzz bars, cranks with various offsets
@@davehollows7681
Thanks, but I am poor :( and unemployed :)
I have just test fitted the motor and cranks. Much to my surprise the left hand side is spot on but the right side is a million miles out even with a 0 q bafang :(
Turns out the specs for my bike lied, and I have 170mm cranks not the 165mm the claimed.
Is there such thing as a negative Q crank?
You mean Bafang is too powerful, and TSDZ2 is enough power already?
@@MaximC
The Bafang is a moped - no need to pedal. The TSDZ2 is like a shop bought ebike - it adds to the work you do.
Both are plenty powerful enough.
Oh, I almost forgot...... I opened the motor and re greased everything - no sign of water ingress despite it being submerged in water and mud over the winter.
As a Bafang mid drive rider on a converted hardtail, I would point out one very large difference between all of these retrofit kits and a purpose built eMTB. And that is pedal torque sensing. Not aware of any kit that has that. Pedal sensor and pedal assist, technically yes, but that only means it senses whether the pedals are turning, not how hard. Without a torque sensor I am constantly poking the power level up-down buttons to regulate the power delivery in hilly terrain. No one, it seems, has figured out how to get a true torque sensor into the mid-drive kits that go into an existing bottom bracket. I rode a purpose built Haibike and the torque sensor made a tremendous difference. You could mostly just set one of three power assist levels and forget it and ride. I sure would love to see this integrated into a kit.
Tongsheng TSDZ2 does, and mine arrived yesterday.
Tongsheng tsdz2 250-500w 36/48v torque sensing.
@@kevinshort3943 excellent! Fitted mine 3 monrts ago, luvin' it!
@@colincampbell4261
750w 48v
But I understand that there are just two motors and the rest is just firmware differences.
@@colincampbell4261
Waiting for a bms to arrive from China.
What have you done about the cranks?
The Tongsheng TSDZ2 mid drive (750w/52v) running the latest open source firmware is a solid competitor to any of the big name mid drives IMHO. Especially when price is taken into consideration. I have run two of these TSDZ2's over the last couple of years now, on different frames and as the firmware has improved along with the ability to customise the specs I have found them great for tinkering which is great if you like that sort of thing. Please note I also have a 1500w hub drive 29er as well but this unit is really only for commuting running slicks as it's not the best for off road/mtb as the weight coming off jumps etc is pretty hairy.
Converting an old MTB is a good idea - in theory. What people need to consider is are the brakes adequate, is the chain and cassette in good condition (replacing those adds to the cost... are the tubes and tyres still good (many old bikes are parked due to mechanical issues... and tyres can rot out in a year or two... to make conversions safe, esp. with the extra weight and speed can cost a lot more than a new cheap e-bike - and the new bike will come with dic brakes, be engineered for the weight, probably with a front suspension fork, better tyres etc... pouring money into converting a cheap, old, potentially badly maintained bike is not good sense... Of course, if you have a great condition old bike that is good quality, then it is an option, but still consider the maintenance needed to bring it up to spec and safe condition...
You still get a thumbs up for talking about the subject, we can't all afford the price of a new car or motorcycle to buy a pushbike with a motor...
DIY ebikes are anathema to this channel's raison d'être. Pardon my latin/french
Not in the least because so many are not very good
One of my local bike shops will be offering to do e bike conversions in the near future. Mixed reviews so far from the mechanics on whether it is a good idea or not.
Great intro vid - thank you!
Only 1 thing I learn from you guys is talk sss😊😊
Great video! If you are lucky enough to work for an employer that offers the tax-free cyclescheme, you could probably get a low-end off the shelf e-bike for less that the cost of a conversion kit (unless you can wangle a way of getting the kit through the cyclescheme). Looking at converting my wife’s bike for her.
Can you recommend any systems that use your peddling to add charge to the battery?
I don't think that would work, but I've heard of systems that use braking to recharge the battery
I'm looking to convert a cheap second hand bike. I've not owned a bike for several years. My main use would be for commuting and 'fun' rides (not mountain biking). I have limited technical ability, although my son-in-law is a motor mechanic. I want to keep the cost as low as possible, would you say the 'plug and play' rear hub drive is my best option? Ive only just come across your channel (watching Ray do his barefoot engineering!) Keep up the good work 👍🏻
Thank you very much for detailed explanation.
Hi loved your video. Can I ask this lower priced, easy fit rear hub will be good enough for cycling up hills on the road. I have similar bike as shown. Many thanks
I built a bike using a Bafang BBS01B @@@ watt motor with a 36v 13amp hour battery bolted on the down tube.
I also upgraded everthing on the bike with brand new equipmentt including brakes, suspension forks wider tyres, gearing and it cost me approx £1000
I just picked up a freebie very rusted chain left out in the rain but nice model late 90's early oughts East Peak frs by Marin bikes, a very nice full suspension aluminum frame with mounting holes for disc brakes (but still has rim brakes). It is a great find for building an ebike on except the wheels are still in very good condition and I think I am just going to ride it as is (after a little rust cleanup on the cassette and a fresh chain and a little tune up). I understand you need wheels that have disc brake mounts and I am loathe to give up these nice wheels. Question arises: do most of the hub kits have disc brakes mounts? How do I look for that? Any advice? As, If I am going up to 1000 watts for hill climbing, I am also going to want disc brakes. I think rim brakes are ok only for low watt assists.
Just about all the front hub kits here in Oz have the battery built in to the hub itself. They also have a USB port built in for charging yet the kits here all have a separate battery set up.
Fantastic guide! thank you for your help!!
I wish I could add a mid-drive kit to my MTB but as a live in South London, it's already difficult enough to secure just the bike when I go out let alone another £700 ish in kit.
Question what if you got quick realise on your bike and the kit wheel bolt don't fit in groves on bile? 🤔?
0:56 Stamp 7 DM edition Pedals for 150 bucks on this bike is kinda funny:' )
Hmm this made me instantly think of my old Gt sanction sitting in the garage….mid drive and maybe mount battery on top tube……🧐
Great video. Very helpful. I have a cheap bike which I have had for eleven years. Do I want to spend the amount of money to electrify it, or a bike off the shelf. A dilemma.
Very nice! and thanks. One question, does the legal limit of the motor, @ 250 watts, to keep "Street Legal" apply to the whole bike, or could one fit a 250 watt motor, to the front wheel, and anther 250 watt motor, to the back wheel, and still be "Street Legal"? Thanks, once again.
According to federal regulations you can have 750W per motor. It would also be VERY heavy, three motors and three sets of batteries. Better jut to go with one 750W set up
Front hubs are for cruising back drive is the best but can be difficult on trails because the motor is the back wheel
I have two high velocity fans that are 115 vac 60 hz 130w can this motor be used to convert a bike into an ebike please answer
We've not heard of that being used before Stephano!
No mention made that a cartridge BB is required as the sensor disc hole will not fit over a hollow tech shaft.
Also 2nd hand. Amazing how cheap things go for 2nd hand.
Do you have any used ebike conversion kits for sale
Reasonably good comments but didn't explain that there are thru axle hub motors available which is more relevant to modern frames
What about carbon fibre bikes? I have a santacruz blur xc and would the mounting of batteries and motors strain areas on the frame that weren’t meant to have weight or stress?
AliExpress is your friend. Around £300 all in for a 3kw rear hub kit including battery. 40 or so mph. A lot of these kits in the video are just rebranded and come from the same Chinese sweatshops.
I don't think it's right. I just searched and first of all no 3kw to be found, 1,5kw costs 260 euros (PLUS import duties), + battery min 300 euro (PLUS import duties).
i built my own 48v 1000w rear hub lcd kit a few years ago now, first i had 10c 12s multistar 20,000mah.
they puffed after a year or two,
now i use 12s turnigy 60c 5000mah.
bike still weighs a metric ton.
still hauls ass.
only runs for about a 12km ride, or 1hr.
so will have to take a normal bike on day trips.
Great channel.I have a gen 2 with pillar battery. Is there any chance you could go through the pros and cons of adding the rack Mount battery to increase the range? (and maybe how to do this work) :-) thanks!
does plug and play kits exist? Whats the maintenance cycles for the computer of the kit ?
Hi, can I put rear hub motor in my bike wich already have Bosch mid drive system.
I would like to have more torque, soo i would put rear hub motor and additional battery. Tnx for answer
Thank you - very informative.
I would like a small motor just to make toting around a toddler trailer with twins easier and faster. What can I find for my cruiser that I can kind of just plug and go? Is there a weight limit?
...any chance that you guys have any extra kits you don’t need/use? 😶
would love to upgrade a bmx bike to help save for a car to sleep in while attending classes for my dream job (oil refinery)!
I want to convert my old specialized status DH bike into an e-bike, and recommended paths?
Great video! Thank you.
Hello there I really enjoyed all your videos and I have a question for you. I'm planning to buy my e-bike kit from Amazon. So what I'm doing is buying a foldup bike from Amazon then purchasing a ebike motor kit. Problem is I want to buy a front ebike motor because I want as little modifications and simple installation as possible. The problem I have is a fold-up bike on buying from Amazon has the disc brake on the front tire. Is there a rear brake part make a note that I need to purchase since the e-bike motor is the front tire? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I’m so excited about doing this. I signed up swytch. Conversation kit. Either threw them or buying a 2nd hand one from someone?
i dont think swytch is worth the price why pay £700 when u can buy a brand new bike for that much
the legend thanks for your feed back . You got me thinking
Depends on the bike you are converting really.
The example cost you mentioned for a rear hub drive system, did that include a charger?
most don't. u have to buy the battery speedster
What happens if your rear drive motor suffers from a buckle will the whole unit need replacing?
i have a 3 wheeled bike that (when i petal) it moves the back tires, my question is, will a front hub drive suit me or not?
Just ordered a Bafang mid drive kit, but it has a 44T chainring...... is that going to need a HUGE rear cassette?
Do rear hub drives fit Boardman 8.9 URB? The drive train is a carbon belt...
late but got my hard tail done no probs yous power rear hub 350 w
what is the total added weight after your hard tail rear hub drive conversion?
One thing to add, you'll still pick up punctures, and on an ebike this can be a chore . The product 'Green Slime' is a self sealing compound you can put in your inner tubes. Also I would also I nvest in puncture proof tires.
Dear Electric Mountain Bike Network
I want to convert my city bike into an ebike and I’ve looked at a lot of front hub motor wheels, but then I realized that my bike has “roller brakes” and I’m not sure what to do now. Do I have to by a special hub motor wheel if I still want to use my front break or what would you recommend?
Kind regards Anders
I'm not sure if an answer still helps, but you have to replace the fork in this case. You have to have a fork for a rim or disc brake, depending on the type of hub motor and rim you use
bike parc cymru, love it :)
Very helpful thanks.
I have a 10 speed with very narrow tires. Would putting on a fatter tire that comes with the e-bike kit cause the bicycle to not track or ride properly? thanks
Hi gentlemen, as some of us are bigger or just a tad on the heavier side and ride heavier built bikes because of that,
and remaining street legal with a tiny 250 watt motor and enough torque to get the job adequately done can be a challenge.
So what motors or kits in the respective categories, wheel hub or mid drive have the best torque rating do you think?
Thanks in advance.
Mid drives have so much more Torque, you should look at a Bafang BBSHD with 52V battery
I have an old giant I was thinking of converting, instead of buying a rad or aventón. I do worry about the old parts (brakes, gears, frame...) being able to stand up to the stresses placed upon them ( I’m 300 lbs, 21.5 stone), and adding the weight and forces to it in a way it wasn’t designed for. Is that a problem?
I fitted a mid drive kit on my 12 year old mtb I have to disagree about someone being competent enough to fit one. If you can do basic bike maintenance you can fit a kit. I've had mine a year. The two most important aspects I found for them is how much power do you want ie motor wattage & what range you want, I went for a 750w motor I'm a heavy guy & it pulls me up the steepest hills also the range you need my 52v 20ah battery gives my total 140kg ride weigh 30 miles range on one charge roughly dependent on several factors such as wind speed, hills & ride speed (I like to go fast!)
Are there any ebike kits for fatbikes? (Specifically the MoMA fatbike?)
Ii have had a rear tire kit but no bike shop would do it here in CT
I’ve been looking to buy one of these for a month did little bit search to figure out the cost of having e-bike but i’ve decided to renew my motorcycle insurance ... $62 monthly.
what would you recommend for a throttle assist MTB that you can buy off the shelf and whats the best centre crank driven bike please?
Im looking for a bike that can cope with the above with a reasonable range and 20-25mph at times. i have heard the rear hub drives burn out, is this correct?
Interesting video .Cheers lads .I'm in the middle of building a cyclotricity 250/1000 dual power bike from a montague paratrooper .Bit of head scratching but coming on nicely .Ps don't carry your battery in a backpack .Its a nice way to snap your spine if you come flying off and land the wrong way .A water bottle in a backpack was responsible for a snapped spine last year ... .....Yip.
Can the bike battery be charged by a solar charger/battery (Jackery) while riding to extend the range?
Check the Channel Jack Butler about this topic. He has ridden the Sun Trip, a solar e bike ride from France to China with such a bike
Just need a throttle, speedcontroller, battery and a motor (make sure to disable regenerative breaking)
And then just need a pulley system easy to design or find one online and send it off to be printed or cut
I have a Trek Roscoe 8. Anyone have an idea of a kit that will work?
Bafang bbs02 mid drive kit is the way to go!
I saw that the mid drive motors all come with T44+ chainrings. Can you run then with smaller chain rings (32-34T)?
Secondly, it's sooooo much more cheap to diy (around 1k EUR /GBP) compared to 4000k +... Pre-built