This is what I need, due to medical stuff I cannot drive now and walking is difficult BUT cycling is much easier as not putting much weight on my hips, will keep an eye out for this when available, thank you for doing this vid.
I'm in the process of "inventing" exactly this, just for personal use. except this kit is so much smaller, better to use and around more awesome than mine! big respect!
As someone who bought a 1000w kit (rear hub) and spent about a month trying to fit it on what I thought would have been an ideal bike (older trek mamba) this is very appealing! Think I might pick one of these up for the wife’s bike.
@@ricksanchez3628 not literally a month but several hours over the span of a month, there was a lot of faffing and frustration (eg PAS did not fit my bike so had to order another) but I got it done. That is why this simpler kit appeals to me, seems easier to fit and possibly less frustrating.
Looks great Andy. I've been using a Swytch kit for the last year and the common failure point is the handlebar bracket with built-in electrical connector, worked initially but eventually would interrupt connection riding over rough ground and reset the unit. So pleased to see you're using a separate plug connector into the pack. Just need to make sure it's robust enough to be plugged in and unplugged regularly.
Great electrification kit. I like the idea to convert a normal bicycle with motor, battery and controller into some thing more useful like this. For my carry purposes I would like adding racket with bag and/or a triangle frame bag so that you can take more things with you than one bag back can carry for daily, weekend or travel trips.
I put a Bafang bbs02 750w motor 5kg and 800wh 4kg battery on a decent mtb bike with slick tyres for road duties only. Total weight 20,5kg. Only after the conversion, I realised if you still want to cycle like normal but with added range and average top speed, a lower power unit with smaller battery would have made more sense, even if you want to do a round trip of 100km before charging. Also the extra drag from sitting upright at 30km's per hour vs 40km's per hour, requires an extra 100-150watts of power. Why haven't I seen any aerodynamic analysis on ebikes? Should I have bought a 350w max rear hub motor 3kg with 2.5 kg battery for a lighter more efficient bike?
That is a good point for fairly flat cycling route. In fact I used to have a rear hub motor 250W doing all good for me in fairly flat cycling route until one day I have to change my route to a curvy hilly challenging road. Here is how I started Bafang BBSHD with 990W battery, it solve my problem and I only need 50km per charge. So all good for me
You need to install torque arms on that fork to prevent dropout from breaking off while you are riding and make sure the tire is ebike certified as a regular tire will wear faster.
I put a 1500w hub drive on a Trek city bike with a quick twist throttle. The thing went pretty well up to a max of 32mph. Had i run 60v instead of 48v would have been close to 40mph but thats just too damned fast for a spindly alluminium frame. Being reasonable does ward off stiches and plaster.
I like your thinking here. This is going to a great option for many commuters who don’t need to do huge mileages between charges, the removable battery & contoller is also great for that use too, I can see you selling a lot of these, might even consider one myself rather than using my hihger range but much heavier bikes for shopping trips (I’m one on those crazy perople with 4 bikes and no car).
Make sure the axles are long enough for a Brompton, Andy. I had a terrible time fitting the wheel from Swytchbike on a very early Brompton which had the loop wire for a mudguard and perhaps the metal on the forks was thicker - anyway I was baffled why so little leeway. I had a lot of confusing back & forth until they sent me narrow nuts and another bit. Got there in the end when they finally answered the question I was asking. Make sure your instructions explain what some of the parts do for the first time novice, e.g. the torque arm [and don't use the word torque elsewhere ambiguously!] and they are up-to-date with the actual kit version supplied! A quick question on your kit: with the power off, what is the rotation friction of the hub like - say you haven't quite made it back home and have to pedal 100%?
looks darn near perfect. only concern is battery safety. here in States (NYC in particular) the explosion of e-bikes has brought with it... well... "explosions" in the form of battery fires, so it's the classic problem of NO FREE LUNCH.
Not if you already have the bike, but it's definitely not worth it if you are buying the bike and kit together . If you don't already have a bike to convert, it is cheaper to buy the whole bike . The range is kind of low,but I guess that's what you pay for the convenience of the small battery
@@marvenlunn6086already having the bike doesn’t make a difference though, if you’re in the market for an ebike, sell the old, buy a new, and it essentially cancels itself out depending on the quality of your existing bike
While out on my engwe pro, i was parked up, and a woman was taking photos of my bike, i said everything ok, she said this is going to be my next bike, and next to my bike she had a old 10 year old e bike, we had a really good chat, and on her bike she had throttle, and said she wouldn't be without it!! So now because we live in the same area she said she will be on her new engwe pro, really nice to speak to someone who understands e bikes and how good they are!!
Looks good! Any concerns around aluminium forks, where the alloy drop-outs might flex, crack and sheer with the motor torque acting on the axle against the direction of rotation of the wheel? Or maybe 250W is just not enough to present a problem? Great solution, anyway - look forward to seeing it in Australia 🙂
I like the dual battery idea, was thinking the same a while back.. currently looking into a way of charging one while riding and using the other with the option of linking the two for off-road speeds. You're way ahead of me so I'll share; Using a simple solar charger connected to a 24V DC generator (with diode) combined with the dual battery charger you featured a while back. You run as designed with either of the 24v battery packs and boost to 48v via a four way switch. With the right generators and batteries you could potentially ride indefinitely without the need to plug in the wall😊
what a great piece of kit well done very informative. I have three unused bikes and I am a reasonably fit 80 year old and you have inspired me to convert one of the bikes and get back on two wheels. Many thanks Mike Western
6:57 What is preventing the hub from rotating? Don't they usually have a torque arm to prevent rotation? I know it is only 250 watts, but on a hill even a 250 watt hub motor can spike to 500 or more watts.
Love this bit of kit, especially as my bike doesn’t have room for conventional battery placement, and for a dip your toe into e-bikes this would be great, for general getting about local and stuff .
Most people opting for a kit, will already have a favorite bike so its just a case of dropping this in. Front hub, minimal fuse. Disc breaks is a bonus. The only other point would be if you wanted to upgrade the brakes to proper e-bike brakes which aren't that expensive. You would just have to splice the two wires from the e-brakes to the plugin connectors you showed, instead of using magnets etc. Im sure anyone savey could work that out. Just a cheeky thought, but this kit is stealthy enough to run as a dual hub motor. IM thinking of folks with an existing rear hub, who want to add another motor, the way scooters have two motors. You would need a way to get the brakes to speak to both sets of controllers, but it would be doable. One hub on the pedal assists, the other on/ throttle controls with the two sets of batteries and controllers. ;0)
Looks really good, if the light on the front could be switched to white, it would look like a daytime running light. Also thinking, it may cause a problem with the lighting regs in the UK if you get challenged by the police.
I can see what you mean about the front light. It is the lens size and pattern that could easily create confusion between a bicycle and a motorcycle. I am pretty sure that a jobsworth rookie plod will be all over it like a swarm trying to score his first kill. Neat unit and concept also as its easily retrofittable unlike a Bafang mid drive conversion kit. If it was just a little cheaper i would be tempted myself. My mates call me 'Degsy Dylan' because i refuse to go full electric! 🤣🤣🤣
I love the design, but it would be nice to see the battery bracket hold up abit more and if not maybe have the display pop up to the angle the user wants. The light is going to be white when it comes out thats a good decision. I think I'll be getting one when it comes out for my foldable bike because the fact is its easy to fit. ❤
This is awesome. Can you and Jason make a video on battery safety and how to make sure none of the terminals come loose? The reason I say this is because I had a front wheel predal assist and all the terminals came loos inside the battery part and when it was on charge it started to make crackling sounds and if we did not notice it there could of been a fire. I think I will buy my next one from you guys. Probably be a lot safer.
Interesting little device there maybe ill think about getting one at some point , My only concern may be how much weight you put onto steering wheel. A future version could allow for the LCD display to be flipped up so it can be read easier.
Quick note on tubeless tires. Whether the tubeless tire can be run tubeless has to do with the wheel. A spoked wheel needs a tube to keep the air in, while the composite wheels can let the tubeless tire do it's job. WOW these conversion kits have come a long way in the past 10 years! Thanks
Perfect timing as I plan to buy a lightweight folding 20 inch bike and add an electric bike conversion kit. I have just bought a ready made ebike, but a recent back injury means it is too heavy to keep lifting it in and out of the car. Will now keep checking your website.
The battery mount with all the weight hanging in front of the bracket will be a problem for sure, if you are doing small bumps and jumps at speed I can see this bracket failing. Maybe make the mount under the battery, so it could handle the bumps better without it breaking off? How much is this kit going to be ?
Hi Andy - that handlebar-mount battery pack looks interesting, have you considered supplying it as an eMTB battery solution, maybe 36V 15-20Ah, for use with other motors?
This is exactly like the Swytch kit which i recently bought The big oroblem i find is the range due to small battery and obviously the speed restrictions If you came up with a bigger motor i would be interested in purchasing one cheers
The swytch kit comes with a generic ebike display it's easy to just go in and increase the speed. It'll do like 18-20mph fully unlocked so probably not worth it but the option is there.
@@JudeTheRUclipsPoopersubscribe thanks but I've only got the small display ( the size of a thumb 👍 ) And a bit annoyed because I wasn't given an option when ordering I will re-order at some point Thanks again
@andy Kirby Can you also do it the other way around? From e bike to normal bike? I have a 9 year old Sparta e bike and they don't make the battery for it anymore. So as an e bike it has become worthless. The frame is still beautiful and it would be a waste to throw the bike away.😢
That was just my thought too. I have an old first-generation Giant e twist. It's lightweight and rides well, but the cost of rebuilding the battery is a lot, most likely equivalent to the cost of this whole kit, so all being well if and when this comes to market it'll provide an option with appropriate spannering to keep the old girl going. I have to say though it would feel a bit of a backward step to have the speed controller so far forward when I'm used to having it close to hand on the crossbar side of the handlebars. However, as with most things, I guess it'll be possible to re-engineer the fixing points, etc. Good video, great demo.
Andy & Jason: on older vintage bikes from the 1970s-1990's era, rather than swapping out the whole wheel/rim/hub, could you ever see an electric motor which clips around the existing axle in two semi-circular parts instead? It'd save the originality of the vintage bike. Or is this idea technically an impossibility?🤔❓🚲
If we are talking about traditionallly spoked wheels, It's technically feasible to remove the hub from an existing wheel and replace it with a motorized hub. You'd have to shorten the spokes, and worry about matching the total number of spokes. There was a company that would convert wheels for you, but last I looked they stopped accepting wheels for conversion,. I'd guess it's because it is very labor intensive that they weren't making as much profit as they wanted.
My only issue with these types of kits is your cheap bike you dont care about suddenly becomes not so cheap bike that might get nicked. Especially the hub motor which is now half the price of the bike. Btw do you have a video on the kit with thumb throttle? Got a kickbike i'm looking to upgrade and pedal sensors wont do as there are no pedals :)
I'm naturally weary of front-wheel drives, if it powers on while on a slippery road or in a corner, your front-wheel might break out. 250 watts might be low enough
Great video, like the way you just unclip the battery from the handlebars for charging in the same way I charge my lawnmower, hedge clipper and strimmer
I'd say a 10S2P (36V) battery with about 5-6Ah capacity, Andy? Even just using a standard scooter / hoverboard pack? Nothing wrong with those for a cheap solution, I used them myself in lower end conversions.
@@zoidsteris it like the Bose Wave Radio? Back in high school I contacted them and the answer came in the posted brochure... It was like £400 😮 Then they kept sending more ads. 📻
@@andykirby There was nothing about Free power mentioned. Dynamo's supply a trickle charge , you could charge a battery. The turning of the wheels supply the power. Why we used to have dynamo's on pushbikes in early 80's, you move you get power for lights. All I was suggesting is using the same methods to trickle charge a battery through using wheel dynamo's
@@ZX81v2 The trickle would be so small it would be almost impossible to measure. Charging a lithium battery takes way more current than running a little 6v light bulb. Andy's mention of free energy refers to the fact that you would either have to pedal harder or use more of the bike's battery in order to overcome the resistance of the dynamo. There really is no such thing as free energy.
Front wheel...sensible for weight distribution. Integrated battery unit is very compact and clever. Would like a minimum of 30 mile range, though it is light enough to still be able to continue riding the bike without using the unit i.e. if you run out of charge whilst still travelling.
For simple city commuting and most leisure use looks like a decent easy to fit option to your existing bike …needs a stronger battery bracket due to the battery weight but that’s a easy fix..
I've got an old fixed gear bike with added cable front caliper brakes to the existing rear hub brake that works by back-pedalling. As the gear ratio is hard work for going up hill, I was thinking of a decent e-conversion kit like this. Swytch seem to have a good option, but I'm not convinced of its reliability and whether the front wheel swap will work with my bike that has very narrow forks and tubeless tyre wheels.
I would suggest a tilt-able screen with a sun protector- or if you wanted to really think out of the box, a simple flip up mirror with a regressed screen would give you a H.U.D look and would block most reflective sunlight
I'd like to see a front and rear flashing LED kit. I've found that the flashing LED is orders of magnitude more visible than the same light when it is steady.
What about putting lights on!! the old dynamo , back light also add mud guards plus reflector just to be legal once again!! I had a fine of £5.00 for no lights many years ago.
Questions: Is it possible to get this kit in the States? Do you offer different front wheel sizes? Do you send instructions that are easy for anyone to follow despite no prior experience working on a bike? What is the cost in dollars for the kit and for shipping?
I would like to see an option for another battery to add on in case I need to go any type of distance and you might think about making the whole unit bigger so that a person could convert an adult tricycle. Perhaps a dual setup for both rear wheels since the sprocket is in the middle. I would also sell a hydraolic brake kit too. This is a brilliant option for people if its cheap enough.
Of course! Yes there were two incline tests, first one where I missed the gear and we talked about the incline and also on the railway bridge. There will be more videos coming on this kit anyway 👍🏼
Given your comments on how good it is on the lighter bike used in the vid, I'd be interested in seeing what its like on a road bike. I assume its all compatible with road handlebars, wheel size etc?
That's a big box in the front. If the batteries are in there, an even greater concern. How long does that thing bouncing around last until either the mounting hardware or the bracket starts to give way?
That's a interesting kit. I don't know much about ebikes to know what I would need in my area with tons of steep hills. I would maybe be conserned about the front wheel drive?
Were the dropouts filled before fitting, the dropouts need to be filled downwards and sideways.. The dropout width is 10mm and the ebike axle is 10mm, the axle and anti rotation washer is greater the dropout depth. The tab on the anti rotation washer is not clearly shown, if it is shown will the tab be below the top of the forks dropout. Please do a video showing the anti rotation washer clearly and can you please answer on whether the dropouts were modified in this video.
@@andykirby Ebike axles are 10mm width and 12mm deep (sometimes 14mm) and then you have the anti rotation tab washer thickness (let's say 4nm) A quick release axle is 9mm thick, so you are saying a thickness of 16mm will securely fit into a dropout designed for 9mm thickness without any modifications. Does fitting this make the bike warranty invalid.
@@andykirby The axle looks like it was a bolt on axle and you can see the anti rotation washer if you look closely. I personally would not fit an ebike motor to any suspension fork even with torque arms fitted.
I’ve just wondered if anyone finds the front wheel drive a little unstable being only on two wheels, especially if turning with power on, just a thought
Looks and excellent piece of kit! Will be interesting to see what distance it can go on the battery. Looks super easy to assemble and within the capability of most bike owners who look after their bikes. Not sure about taking your hand off the bars to change power level up or down. Could do with a separate switch that can be positioned by your brake lever and connected by cable to main unit. I guess with only 3 levels it's not to much of an issue but taking ones hand of bar is always potential for accident. Perhaps it could be an option to keep price competitive. Eskute had the power level change above the headset on one of their bikes and offered the option to change levels with a separate switch that could be mounted near the brake lever. A number of customers found it unsafe taking hands off bars to change level. They moved away from central mounted power level control to one mounted near the brake lever. Might be worth considering a separate control. The motor does seem to have some torque with that gearing and didn't appear to affect the steering or stability with weight over the front. Will be interesting to see more test runs etc😊
But if you're turning you have to take one hand of the handlebars to indicate , so maybe shouldn't be riding if you think it's unsafe to take your hands off😮
@@TheSailorboy74 Yea fair point but most ebikes have level setting switch by handle bar grips but I guess as it's only 3 levels your not going to be changing it much. Just set the level you need and away you go!
This looks as though it would work on my Dekra Urban chainless bike, which I have been trying to get info on to do a mid-drive motor. You can't open the sealed gear box.
Remove the ugly light, make the display separately with a cable long enough to fit the battery and controller unit under the saddle and I would buy it right now.
Cant find any videos on the Brompton kit. Please make a demo on this popular bike. I would like to see how it fits in with the folding system. Thanks :)
Nice & Simple Design, the geared hub seems like a winner. The lightweight design of this prototype setup is the critical criteria for a 250W Ebike for some short & easy ebike commuting. Being a cheap overall build will get more bums on the seats & enjoying true ebiking. Cheers for the content. I think the extra battery will be a great upgrade for those wanting to hang on to this ebike for a decent length of time. Cheers for the upload 👍 🍻😊🚲
I will buy the kit as I need a folding bike that fits in my Renault Megane E-Tech EV. My full sus EMTB would need both wheel removing as a minimum and I don't need the huge range of the Bosch 625whr battery.
I think with an additional port for an additional battery with a switch to change between the two would be ideal. Then you could add an extra battery if needed. Just need to add an additional port for this to the main unit. Also, making the front light more like a regular bike light or two round motorcycle lights would make it look better and be more powerful instead of the weird looking 'Oval' ring light.
I paid 450$ for a bafang 750w/1450w peak BBS02 kit and 420$ for a 30AH battery. 30 MPH 50 mile no pedalling range. 100 mile pedal assist range. Put it on a 50$ Marketplace Benotto dual suspension with disc brakes. So we paid the same, but my batteries more than 4x the size, motors 6 times as powerful (peak) & I get 5 times the range. Took me 2 hours in my Detroit garage with an abnormal amount of tools to get done. They give you hub tools.
Sorry if I missed it in the vid, but does it do regen breaking? I don't have to stop a lot on my commute, but when I do it's from high speed (~32 km/h, no e assist yet), so recovering that energy would be huge to get me up to speed again quick. I think you said it cuts off around 24? Id probably just leave it in climb mode for rabbit starts, lol.
a little box that has everything maybe an issue to me i like customization. the rear wheel does it need adjusting of spokes or is that all sorted from the box? aside from some cheap looking parts the lightweight of this is A+++++ that's the one MAJOR disadvantage of ebikes is they looks so bulky and ugly! had a e scoot but returned it rather diy conversion (also ebikes more lowkey) because that lightweight will have you flying with even a small 250W!
It looks like it's got 3D goggles on apart from that you can't tell the difference good idea with the lower gear ratio for 250w 👍👍 should help with the hills
Batteries have weight so always better to keep low for balance so locating at the highest point a little silly but as the battery is very small probably not a problem but i guess good for only 10 miles if you cycle i have a 8ah battery but now down to 7ah capacity does 6 to 9 miles dependant on speed acceleration etc.
Hey guys like your vid and information! May I ask what do you consider"cheap"?? I love the sheer simplicity coupled w/ the nice looking unique,battery front panel...clicks right on,nice! Ball park price sans bike
I think the front mount for the battery needs a bit of work maybe proper clamps to the handlebar rather than straps Apart from that looks like the ideal kit to put on an Ali framed folding small wheel bike
I got a Whistle Miwok 1482D with shimano hydraulic brakes in 2016 for £ 309.99. You don't deals like that anymore. I converted it to 60v electric and used it for doing jumps over speed bumps at 40mph and it's taken no damage.
I'm looking to get one of the not-road-legal kits to convert mine - 1500W motor, throttle, 60kmh top speed etc. What's law enforcement like over here for that stuff?
The bike apparently weighs 13.7kg. That kit seams ok though it may help if the screen was angled more visually. I'm assuming it doesn't get much travel range given the size of the battery?
@@andykirby That's a shame, not far at all. Have you done a review and installation of the 'eBike Outlet' conversion kit? They're German brand though have UK supplier online site. Their conversion kit claims to get 100 mile travel per charge.
@@MrRockstar1968 it's not easy to compare the range of an e-bike. It depends of too many factors. Better to compare the size of the battery. Normally it should have around 500 Wh for a reasonable range. The one in this kit has maybe 200 Wh (just guesing from the size). Thats ok for commuting and recharging daily.
@@andykirby Neither of you have answered my question of have you done a review and installation of the 'eBike Outlet' conversion kit? They're German brand though have UK supplier online site. Their conversion kit claims to get 100 mile travel per charge.
really interesting, thinking it could be fitted to the front wheel of an existing rear wheel e-bike. but one question, what sort of minimum range could you expect from this?
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This is what I need, due to medical stuff I cannot drive now and walking is difficult BUT cycling is much easier as not putting much weight on my hips, will keep an eye out for this when available, thank you for doing this vid.
I'm in the process of "inventing" exactly this, just for personal use.
except this kit is so much smaller, better to use and around more awesome than mine! big respect!
As someone who bought a 1000w kit (rear hub) and spent about a month trying to fit it on what I thought would have been an ideal bike (older trek mamba) this is very appealing! Think I might pick one of these up for the wife’s bike.
A month... seriously...I advise you not to go the DIY route
@@ricksanchez3628 not literally a month but several hours over the span of a month, there was a lot of faffing and frustration (eg PAS did not fit my bike so had to order another) but I got it done. That is why this simpler kit appeals to me, seems easier to fit and possibly less frustrating.
@@philwhite7034 Front wheel motor isn't very nice on dirt.
@@tonyp2865 also pretty prone to theft.
What’s the top speed on it
Looks great Andy. I've been using a Swytch kit for the last year and the common failure point is the handlebar bracket with built-in electrical connector, worked initially but eventually would interrupt connection riding over rough ground and reset the unit. So pleased to see you're using a separate plug connector into the pack. Just need to make sure it's robust enough to be plugged in and unplugged regularly.
Interesting, I've had one for a little while but not used it a huge amount. I'll watch out, I guess London potholes count as rough ground!
The battery and controller are all built into that rectangle. What happens when the battery goes belly up?
Can the battery be replaced .please
@@stevelouie5928 It is surprising that no reply is given for this question
@@vinceduce461 it is surprising that till date no reply
Great electrification kit. I like the idea to convert a normal bicycle with motor, battery and controller into some thing more useful like this. For my carry purposes I would like adding racket with bag and/or a triangle frame bag so that you can take more things with you than one bag back can carry for daily, weekend or travel trips.
I put a Bafang bbs02 750w motor 5kg and 800wh 4kg battery on a decent mtb bike with slick tyres for road duties only. Total weight 20,5kg. Only after the conversion, I realised if you still want to cycle like normal but with added range and average top speed, a lower power unit with smaller battery would have made more sense, even if you want to do a round trip of 100km before charging. Also the extra drag from sitting upright at 30km's per hour vs 40km's per hour, requires an extra 100-150watts of power. Why haven't I seen any aerodynamic analysis on ebikes? Should I have bought a 350w max rear hub motor 3kg with 2.5 kg battery for a lighter more efficient bike?
That is a good point for fairly flat cycling route. In fact I used to have a rear hub motor 250W doing all good for me in fairly flat cycling route until one day I have to change my route to a curvy hilly challenging road. Here is how I started Bafang BBSHD with 990W battery, it solve my problem and I only need 50km per charge. So all good for me
Did exactly that used a yose power350w rear wheel kit on a 15kilo cheap bike , I find it better than my crank drive
Depends on what you want to use it for really
@@peterbrown-yg4rowhered you get the motor kit?
You need to install torque arms on that fork to prevent dropout from breaking off while you are riding and make sure the tire is ebike certified as a regular tire will wear faster.
I put a 1500w hub drive on a Trek city bike with a quick twist throttle. The thing went pretty well up to a max of 32mph. Had i run 60v instead of 48v would have been close to 40mph but thats just too damned fast for a spindly alluminium frame. Being reasonable does ward off stiches and plaster.
I like your thinking here. This is going to a great option for many commuters who don’t need to do huge mileages between charges, the removable battery & contoller is also great for that use too, I can see you selling a lot of these, might even consider one myself rather than using my hihger range but much heavier bikes for shopping trips (I’m one on those crazy perople with 4 bikes and no car).
With a little modifications, you can fabricate one e- car from two 2 e-bikes you have
Make sure the axles are long enough for a Brompton, Andy. I had a terrible time fitting the wheel from Swytchbike on a very early Brompton which had the loop wire for a mudguard and perhaps the metal on the forks was thicker - anyway I was baffled why so little leeway.
I had a lot of confusing back & forth until they sent me narrow nuts and another bit. Got there in the end when they finally answered the question I was asking.
Make sure your instructions explain what some of the parts do for the first time novice, e.g. the torque arm [and don't use the word torque elsewhere ambiguously!] and they are up-to-date with the actual kit version supplied!
A quick question on your kit: with the power off, what is the rotation friction of the hub like - say you haven't quite made it back home and have to pedal 100%?
looks darn near perfect. only concern is battery safety. here in States (NYC in particular) the explosion of e-bikes has brought with it... well... "explosions" in the form of battery fires, so it's the classic problem of NO FREE LUNCH.
Stupid expensive for a kit. You can buy an entire ebike at that price. I doubt this company will last unless they lower the price
Exactly 💯
Not if you already have the bike, but it's definitely not worth it if you are buying the bike and kit together . If you don't already have a bike to convert, it is cheaper to buy the whole bike . The range is kind of low,but I guess that's what you pay for the convenience of the small battery
Over £500 now 😢
@@marvenlunn6086already having the bike doesn’t make a difference though, if you’re in the market for an ebike, sell the old, buy a new, and it essentially cancels itself out depending on the quality of your existing bike
@edventure9467 Buying a new bike to install the motor on is going to be more expensive than installing a motor you already have
While out on my engwe pro, i was parked up, and a woman was taking photos of my bike, i said everything ok, she said this is going to be my next bike, and next to my bike she had a old 10 year old e bike, we had a really good chat, and on her bike she had throttle, and said she wouldn't be without it!!
So now because we live in the same area she said she will be on her new engwe pro, really nice to speak to someone who understands e bikes and how good they are!!
Looks good! Any concerns around aluminium forks, where the alloy drop-outs might flex, crack and sheer with the motor torque acting on the axle against the direction of rotation of the wheel? Or maybe 250W is just not enough to present a problem?
Great solution, anyway - look forward to seeing it in Australia 🙂
I like the dual battery idea, was thinking the same a while back.. currently looking into a way of charging one while riding and using the other with the option of linking the two for off-road speeds. You're way ahead of me so I'll share;
Using a simple solar charger connected to a 24V DC generator (with diode) combined with the dual battery charger you featured a while back.
You run as designed with either of the 24v battery packs and boost to 48v via a four way switch.
With the right generators and batteries you could potentially ride indefinitely without the need to plug in the wall😊
what a great piece of kit well done very informative. I have three unused bikes and I am a reasonably fit 80 year old and you have inspired me to convert one of the bikes and get back on two wheels. Many thanks Mike Western
6:57 What is preventing the hub from rotating? Don't they usually have a torque arm to prevent rotation? I know it is only 250 watts, but on a hill even a 250 watt hub motor can spike to 500 or more watts.
Love this bit of kit, especially as my bike doesn’t have room for conventional battery placement, and for a dip your toe into e-bikes this would be great, for general getting about local and stuff .
Throws the balance off I wouldn’t waste your money you will want a rear rack battery to make it safe
Been thinking about this setup for a few nights...i think you should include a bracket for the seat post.
Really impressed that this has decent looking pedal and brake sensors also. (Forgot your helmets, especially when testing a new ebike in traffic).
Most people opting for a kit, will already have a favorite bike so its just a case of dropping this in. Front hub, minimal fuse. Disc breaks is a bonus. The only other point would be if you wanted to upgrade the brakes to proper e-bike brakes which aren't that expensive. You would just have to splice the two wires from the e-brakes to the plugin connectors you showed, instead of using magnets etc. Im sure anyone savey could work that out.
Just a cheeky thought, but this kit is stealthy enough to run as a dual hub motor. IM thinking of folks with an existing rear hub, who want to add another motor, the way scooters have two motors. You would need a way to get the brakes to speak to both sets of controllers, but it would be doable. One hub on the pedal assists, the other on/ throttle controls with the two sets of batteries and controllers. ;0)
Like the sound of that..👌💯
Looks really good, if the light on the front could be switched to white, it would look like a daytime running light. Also thinking, it may cause a problem with the lighting regs in the UK if you get challenged by the police.
It will be white on the final version yes. But it does actually look cool in red and lots of people have stopped me tonask about it 😅
I can see what you mean about the front light. It is the lens size and pattern that could easily create confusion between a bicycle and a motorcycle. I am pretty sure that a jobsworth rookie plod will be all over it like a swarm trying to score his first kill.
Neat unit and concept also as its easily retrofittable unlike a Bafang mid drive conversion kit. If it was just a little cheaper i would be tempted myself. My mates call me 'Degsy Dylan' because i refuse to go full electric! 🤣🤣🤣
I love the design, but it would be nice to see the battery bracket hold up abit more and if not maybe have the display pop up to the angle the user wants. The light is going to be white when it comes out thats a good decision. I think I'll be getting one when it comes out for my foldable bike because the fact is its easy to fit. ❤
This is awesome. Can you and Jason make a video on battery safety and how to make sure none of the terminals come loose? The reason I say this is because I had a front wheel predal assist and all the terminals came loos inside the battery part and when it was on charge it started to make crackling sounds and if we did not notice it there could of been a fire. I think I will buy my next one from you guys. Probably be a lot safer.
Interesting little device there maybe ill think about getting one at some point , My only concern may be how much weight you put onto steering wheel. A future version could allow for the LCD display to be flipped up so it can be read easier.
Quick note on tubeless tires. Whether the tubeless tire can be run tubeless has to do with the wheel. A spoked wheel needs a tube to keep the air in, while the composite wheels can let the tubeless tire do it's job. WOW these conversion kits have come a long way in the past 10 years! Thanks
wth? almost every bike wheel has spokes. tubeless only works with a good rim-tyre seal
Brilliant design Andy, and easy to install. The key to its success will be price point. Looking forward to the launch.
turns a cheap bike into an expensive bike 😂😂
Perfect timing as I plan to buy a lightweight folding 20 inch bike and add an electric bike conversion kit. I have just bought a ready made ebike, but a recent back injury means it is too heavy to keep lifting it in and out of the car. Will now keep checking your website.
The battery mount with all the weight hanging in front of the bracket will be a problem for sure, if you are doing small bumps and jumps at speed I can see this bracket failing. Maybe make the mount under the battery, so it could handle the bumps better without it breaking off? How much is this kit going to be ?
It won't fail, it's very strong and not brittle plastic. Cost will be £450
Hi Andy - that handlebar-mount battery pack looks interesting, have you considered supplying it as an eMTB battery solution, maybe 36V 15-20Ah, for use with other motors?
Looks nice, Having one battery at front with a white light and another battery at the rear with the red light. Spot on.😁
looks simular to a swytch setup, will these kits include a power supply that cuts off when the battery has reached full charge ?
That looks like a great piece of kit and it doesn't even look like an E-Bike from the side very impressive performance by the looks of it.
Exactly what I was thinking to,hardly noticeable
This is exactly like the Swytch kit which i recently bought
The big oroblem i find is the range due to small battery and obviously the speed restrictions
If you came up with a bigger motor i would be interested in purchasing one cheers
The swytch kit comes with a generic ebike display it's easy to just go in and increase the speed. It'll do like 18-20mph fully unlocked so probably not worth it but the option is there.
@@JudeTheRUclipsPoopersubscribe thanks but I've only got the small display ( the size of a thumb 👍 ) And a bit annoyed because I wasn't given an option when ordering
I will re-order at some point Thanks again
@andy Kirby Can you also do it the other way around? From e bike to normal bike? I have a 9 year old Sparta e bike and they don't make the battery for it anymore. So as an e bike it has become worthless. The frame is still beautiful and it would be a waste to throw the bike away.😢
That was just my thought too. I have an old first-generation Giant e twist. It's lightweight and rides well, but the cost of rebuilding the battery is a lot, most likely equivalent to the cost of this whole kit, so all being well if and when this comes to market it'll provide an option with appropriate spannering to keep the old girl going. I have to say though it would feel a bit of a backward step to have the speed controller so far forward when I'm used to having it close to hand on the crossbar side of the handlebars. However, as with most things, I guess it'll be possible to re-engineer the fixing points, etc. Good video, great demo.
Andy & Jason: on older vintage bikes from the 1970s-1990's era, rather than swapping out the whole wheel/rim/hub, could you ever see an electric motor which clips around the existing axle in two semi-circular parts instead? It'd save the originality of the vintage bike. Or is this idea technically an impossibility?🤔❓🚲
If we are talking about traditionallly spoked wheels, It's technically feasible to remove the hub from an existing wheel and replace it with a motorized hub. You'd have to shorten the spokes, and worry about matching the total number of spokes. There was a company that would convert wheels for you, but last I looked they stopped accepting wheels for conversion,. I'd guess it's because it is very labor intensive that they weren't making as much profit as they wanted.
My only issue with these types of kits is your cheap bike you dont care about suddenly becomes not so cheap bike that might get nicked. Especially the hub motor which is now half the price of the bike.
Btw do you have a video on the kit with thumb throttle? Got a kickbike i'm looking to upgrade and pedal sensors wont do as there are no pedals :)
A very cool kit! Is it compatible with a 1960s cruiser bike with coaster brakes?
I'm naturally weary of front-wheel drives, if it powers on while on a slippery road or in a corner, your front-wheel might break out.
250 watts might be low enough
Great video, like the way you just unclip the battery from the handlebars for charging in the same way I charge my lawnmower, hedge clipper and strimmer
I'd say a 10S2P (36V) battery with about 5-6Ah capacity, Andy? Even just using a standard scooter / hoverboard pack? Nothing wrong with those for a cheap solution, I used them myself in lower end conversions.
So it's basically a Swytch kit, but without swappable batteries?
So true this is such a rip off
This comment is spot on
Why is the price of a Swytch kit such a closely guarded secret though?
But about half the total price!
@@zoidsteris it like the Bose Wave Radio? Back in high school I contacted them and the answer came in the posted brochure...
It was like £400 😮 Then they kept sending more ads. 📻
Interesting build. Silly question though, why don't you add a couple of dynamo's to charge the battery? Your charging as you ride... Makes sense
It won't work unfortunately, there's no such thing as free power!
@@andykirby There was nothing about Free power mentioned. Dynamo's supply a trickle charge , you could charge a battery. The turning of the wheels supply the power. Why we used to have dynamo's on pushbikes in early 80's, you move you get power for lights. All I was suggesting is using the same methods to trickle charge a battery through using wheel dynamo's
@@ZX81v2 The trickle would be so small it would be almost impossible to measure. Charging a lithium battery takes way more current than running a little 6v light bulb. Andy's mention of free energy refers to the fact that you would either have to pedal harder or use more of the bike's battery in order to overcome the resistance of the dynamo. There really is no such thing as free energy.
Any chance you have suggestions for electric power no peddle assist with a range of aprx 30 miles and fairly cheap
can you plug in hydrolic brake levers with the red plug connectors directly in the main unit? so you have a cleaner look that would be great.
Front wheel...sensible for weight distribution. Integrated battery unit is very compact and clever. Would like a minimum of 30 mile range, though it is light enough to still be able to continue riding the bike without using the unit i.e. if you run out of charge whilst still travelling.
For simple city commuting and most leisure use looks like a decent easy to fit option to your existing bike …needs a stronger battery bracket due to the battery weight but that’s a easy fix..
I've got an old fixed gear bike with added cable front caliper brakes to the existing rear hub brake that works by back-pedalling. As the gear ratio is hard work for going up hill, I was thinking of a decent e-conversion kit like this. Swytch seem to have a good option, but I'm not convinced of its reliability and whether the front wheel swap will work with my bike that has very narrow forks and tubeless tyre wheels.
Cracking video Andy and nice to see Jason is an actual Human Being not a fictional person who answers my tech questions on my kirbe kits 👍
He is so knowledgeable, we've been friends for years.
@@andykirby Then tell him to clip his damn nails!
@@guythecookingsam2588 7:40 --- 8:50
Nice video thankyou 🙏 💚
Does the wheel have a double walled rim?
I would suggest a tilt-able screen with a sun protector- or if you wanted to really think out of the box, a simple flip up mirror with a regressed screen would give you a H.U.D look and would block most reflective sunlight
It's already being made now so this version will be as you see here.
This would be great if it had a provision to plug in a second battery to extend the range. The second battery could be hung anywhere.
Easy enough to carry and switch batteries also more weight means more power needed to move you
I'd like to see a front and rear flashing LED kit. I've found that the flashing LED is orders of magnitude more visible than the same light when it is steady.
What about putting lights on!! the old dynamo , back light also add mud guards plus reflector just to be legal once again!! I had a fine of £5.00 for no lights many years ago.
Questions: Is it possible to get this kit in the States? Do you offer different front wheel sizes? Do you send instructions that are easy for anyone to follow despite no prior experience working on a bike? What is the cost in dollars for the kit and for shipping?
Do you have any good reccomendations for a fast cheap ebike?
I would like to see an option for another battery to add on in case I need to go any type of distance and you might think about making the whole unit bigger so that a person could convert an adult tricycle. Perhaps a dual setup for both rear wheels since the sprocket is in the middle. I would also sell a hydraolic brake kit too. This is a brilliant option for people if its cheap enough.
Does the battery have a proper BMS?
And also you didn’t really test the converted e-bike on any inclines/hills.
Of course! Yes there were two incline tests, first one where I missed the gear and we talked about the incline and also on the railway bridge. There will be more videos coming on this kit anyway 👍🏼
Given your comments on how good it is on the lighter bike used in the vid, I'd be interested in seeing what its like on a road bike. I assume its all compatible with road handlebars, wheel size etc?
Was wondering the same
We are 8km from town, up and down hills which at 72 I would struggle to ride up, so this is worth considering. A 10 mile trip sounds easy.
That's a big box in the front. If the batteries are in there, an even greater concern. How long does that thing bouncing around last until either the mounting hardware or the bracket starts to give way?
That's a interesting kit. I don't know much about ebikes to know what I would need in my area with tons of steep hills. I would maybe be conserned about the front wheel drive?
Were the dropouts filled before fitting, the dropouts need to be filled downwards and sideways.. The dropout width is 10mm and the ebike axle is 10mm, the axle and anti rotation washer is greater the dropout depth. The tab on the anti rotation washer is not clearly shown, if it is shown will the tab be below the top of the forks dropout. Please do a video showing the anti rotation washer clearly and can you please answer on whether the dropouts were modified in this video.
Dropouts were not modified and the anti rotation washer neatly fits. No modifications necessary.
@@andykirby Ebike axles are 10mm width and 12mm deep (sometimes 14mm) and then you have the anti rotation tab washer thickness (let's say 4nm) A quick release axle is 9mm thick, so you are saying a thickness of 16mm will securely fit into a dropout designed for 9mm thickness without any modifications.
Does fitting this make the bike warranty invalid.
@@andykirby The axle looks like it was a bolt on axle and you can see the anti rotation washer if you look closely. I personally would not fit an ebike motor to any suspension fork even with torque arms fitted.
Looks good Andy as you'll see I have e a couple of electric Bromptons, I'll look at this too!
I’ve just wondered if anyone finds the front wheel drive a little unstable being only on two wheels, especially if turning with power on, just a thought
impressive, but what happens if the battery dies midflow?
You can still pedal like normal
Looks and excellent piece of kit!
Will be interesting to see what distance it can go on the battery.
Looks super easy to assemble and within the capability of most bike owners who look after their bikes.
Not sure about taking your hand off the bars to change power level up or down.
Could do with a separate switch that can be positioned by your brake lever and connected by cable to main unit.
I guess with only 3 levels it's not to much of an issue but taking ones hand of bar is always potential for accident.
Perhaps it could be an option to keep price competitive.
Eskute had the power level change above the headset on one of their bikes and offered the option to change levels with a separate switch that could be mounted near the brake lever.
A number of customers found it unsafe taking hands off bars to change level.
They moved away from central mounted power level control to one mounted near the brake lever.
Might be worth considering a separate control.
The motor does seem to have some torque with that gearing and didn't appear to affect the steering or stability with weight over the front.
Will be interesting to see more test runs etc😊
not far. That battery is laughably small for anything meaningful.
@@kozmaz87 Yea I guess it's only for small distance commute and Andy did say they are working connecting another battery.
But if you're turning you have to take one hand of the handlebars to indicate , so maybe shouldn't be riding if you think it's unsafe to take your hands off😮
@@TheSailorboy74 Yea fair point but most ebikes have level setting switch by handle bar grips but I guess as it's only 3 levels your not going to be changing it much.
Just set the level you need and away you go!
Looks good Andy, waiting for more on this conversion kit.
So... could I have two motors on a bike? Back wheel and front wheel?
This looks as though it would work on my Dekra Urban chainless bike, which I have been trying to get info on to do a mid-drive motor. You can't open the sealed gear box.
Needs to be £235 not £535
Oh hell yes! That 1st folding bike is similar to mine so this is getting an instant like & I can't wait to do this.. great post, thank you!
Remove the ugly light, make the display separately with a cable long enough to fit the battery and controller unit under the saddle and I would buy it right now.
OK then 😅
Cant find any videos on the Brompton kit. Please make a demo on this popular bike. I would like to see how it fits in with the folding system. Thanks :)
Nice & Simple Design, the geared hub seems like a winner. The lightweight design of this prototype setup is the critical criteria for a 250W Ebike for some short & easy ebike commuting. Being a cheap overall build will get more bums on the seats & enjoying true ebiking. Cheers for the content. I think the extra battery will be a great upgrade for those wanting to hang on to this ebike for a decent length of time. Cheers for the upload 👍 🍻😊🚲
you can buy an actual new ebike for the price of these kits though - it's not a cheap build
Hope your Swytch kit version is better than theirs Andy...handlebar mounts rattle to hell in my experience!
I will buy the kit as I need a folding bike that fits in my Renault Megane E-Tech EV. My full sus EMTB would need both wheel removing as a minimum and I don't need the huge range of the Bosch 625whr battery.
I think with an additional port for an additional battery with a switch to change between the two would be ideal. Then you could add an extra battery if needed. Just need to add an additional port for this to the main unit. Also, making the front light more like a regular bike light or two round motorcycle lights would make it look better and be more powerful instead of the weird looking 'Oval' ring light.
I paid 450$ for a bafang 750w/1450w peak BBS02 kit and 420$ for a 30AH battery. 30 MPH 50 mile no pedalling range. 100 mile pedal assist range. Put it on a 50$ Marketplace Benotto dual suspension with disc brakes. So we paid the same, but my batteries more than 4x the size, motors 6 times as powerful (peak) & I get 5 times the range. Took me 2 hours in my Detroit garage with an abnormal amount of tools to get done. They give you hub tools.
I have also converted a push-bike into an e-bike, and it certainly took me a lot longer than 15 minutes!!!
Sorry if I missed it in the vid, but does it do regen breaking? I don't have to stop a lot on my commute, but when I do it's from high speed (~32 km/h, no e assist yet), so recovering that energy would be huge to get me up to speed again quick.
I think you said it cuts off around 24? Id probably just leave it in climb mode for rabbit starts, lol.
..do you think about a connector for a Battery extenstion ?
a little box that has everything maybe an issue to me i like customization. the rear wheel does it need adjusting of spokes or is that all sorted from the box? aside from some cheap looking parts the lightweight of this is A+++++ that's the one MAJOR disadvantage of ebikes is they looks so bulky and ugly! had a e scoot but returned it rather diy conversion (also ebikes more lowkey) because that lightweight will have you flying with even a small 250W!
brake lever or brake sensor? what to order?? I have mechanical brake sistem on my bike. PLZ HELP
It looks like it's got 3D goggles on apart from that you can't tell the difference good idea with the lower gear ratio for 250w 👍👍 should help with the hills
Batteries have weight so always better to keep low for balance so locating at the highest point a little silly but as the battery is very small probably not a problem but i guess good for only 10 miles if you cycle i have a 8ah battery but now down to 7ah capacity does 6 to 9 miles dependant on speed acceleration etc.
Pretty impressive.I quite fancy this for my Cube mtb😊
Nice idea. Shame about the no cycling sign you went past on the tow path though.
🙄really?
Yes, inappropriate speeds along several of those paths there. The age of the ebike yob definitely upon us.
Hey guys like your vid and information!
May I ask what do you consider"cheap"??
I love the sheer simplicity coupled w/ the nice looking unique,battery front panel...clicks right on,nice! Ball park price sans bike
Thanks! This kit will retail for £450
I think the front mount for the battery needs a bit of work maybe proper clamps to the handlebar rather than straps Apart from that looks like the ideal kit to put on an Ali framed folding small wheel bike
They are not held on by straps. If you watch the video you will see the custom plastic bracket that has been engineered specifically for this product.
@@andykirby Thanks on the later vlog did note you mentioned your colleague didn't quite get the battery attached correctly
I got a Whistle Miwok 1482D with shimano hydraulic brakes in 2016 for £ 309.99. You don't deals like that anymore. I converted it to 60v electric and used it for doing jumps over speed bumps at 40mph and it's taken no damage.
I have a raleigh folder shopper type bike , how much would a kits cost please ?
Would it work in a beach bike with backpedal brakes? That's the closer you can get to a dutch bike in a lot of places.
I reckon you'd need a decent front brake, depending on how fast you're going to ride it.
I'm looking to get one of the not-road-legal kits to convert mine - 1500W motor, throttle, 60kmh top speed etc. What's law enforcement like over here for that stuff?
A battery that small? Take you around the block and dry?
Looks impressive, though its way out of my budget so will have to stick with pedal power only for longer.
The bike apparently weighs 13.7kg. That kit seams ok though it may help if the screen was angled more visually. I'm assuming it doesn't get much travel range given the size of the battery?
19 miles range with me on it, full power assist.
@@andykirby That's a shame, not far at all. Have you done a review and installation of the 'eBike Outlet' conversion kit? They're German brand though have UK supplier online site. Their conversion kit claims to get 100 mile travel per charge.
@@MrRockstar1968 it's not easy to compare the range of an e-bike. It depends of too many factors. Better to compare the size of the battery. Normally it should have around 500 Wh for a reasonable range. The one in this kit has maybe 200 Wh (just guesing from the size). Thats ok for commuting and recharging daily.
👆🏼 this guy saved me the rouble of explaining.
@@andykirby Neither of you have answered my question of have you done a review and installation of the 'eBike Outlet' conversion kit? They're German brand though have UK supplier online site. Their conversion kit claims to get 100 mile travel per charge.
Do you supply Brompton size wheels? ….😮
This looks GREAT ! Add a 2nd battery and a solar charger and you even get some range ! Well Done !
really interesting, thinking it could be fitted to the front wheel of an existing rear wheel e-bike. but one question, what sort of minimum range could you expect from this?
I got 19 miles yesterday on a range test. Pedal assist on highest level mostly. Riding on 70% flat ground and the rest hills. Video coming next week.
Thanks Andy.