I would like to add a bit more context to the concept of joining the Danish Folkekirke. Most people who are members of the church don't "opt in", so to speak, at least not by their own desire. Most (if not the vast majority) instead become part of the church through baptism. Baptism of babies in Denmark remains popular even among non-religious families who never attend church. This means most danes are members almost from birth by default, and that you actively have to choose whether or not you want to "opt out", something which you have to go out of your way to do. Many danes choose to stay in simply because of the services provided, like getting married in a church and a funeral space for the day they die, even though they are irreligious. Anecdotal experience: The only really religious danes I've encountered tend to be old people of my grandparents generation. At best, younger danes who might identify as religious would say something akin to "I guess there might be a god." (not necessarily specifying a Christian god), and rarely or never attend religious services. The "20% identifying as religious" probably gives you a better insight into the actual religiosity of danes compared to the "74% church membership" number".
Also worthy to mention is the event of "Confirmation" which is an church-related event at the age of 13-15, where kids are asked if they will confirm their belief (aka be/stay part of the people's church). This for most people is mostly a tradition-bound event, rather than a religious one. And since it is offered to everyone, it means that even kids that weren't originally baptized, might still opt to join in if their friendgroup is upholding the tradition. The whole deal about there being a big celebratory party with gifts and so on certainly also caters to quite a few (even though celebrating the non-confirmation is also getting increasingly more popular as an alternative).
@@Real_MisterSir you cant get Konfirmeret without getting baptized first. So if you are not Baptized as a baby you will have to be so as a teen before the Konfirmation.
@@Temptation666 that's a part of my point. That even if you weren't baptized and brought into the people's church as a baby, you might still end up going through with confirmation (baptizing and admittance to the church) because of the event for many teenagers being more related to a social event than a pure belief-based one.
@@Real_MisterSir Teens do indeed rarely go through confirmation due to religious persuasion in Denmark. In the eyes of most danish young teens, the allure of confirmation is that you get to be the center of attention, you get to wear fancy suits or dresses and you get an absolute flood of presents and money. As a preteen I went to my older cousin's confirmation and witnessed him get more than 20000 kr in cash (that's more than 2500 dollars/euros), an amount of money many kids only dream of receiving. My thoughts back then was "whatever I have to do, I want the same as him", which made me decide to get my confirmation. Of course, I hadn't taken any real position on whether or not I believed in any god, I just wanted money and a party. Most kids who were getting a confirmation along with me also didn't show any real interest in the religious aspects. As an atheist, I regret participating in something I did not believe in, but that is what danish confirmations are today: a religious ritual disguised as a prom event where preteens get showered in money and attention, without paying any interest too what kind of values they are supposed to commit to. My confirmation basically just funded my purchase of gaming consoles and a boatload of video games. What preteen would say no to that? That being said, it has become more normalized to have non-religious confirmations (or "nonfirmation" as we tend to call it), where you commit yourself to other values, such as humanism/adulthood/whatever you fancy. So you may choose to have the party, money and attention without the Christian aspects of a confirmation.
You guys make some good points. On the surface, it is indeed a puzzling fact that America is the most religious western country while Denmark is the least religious country in the world, especially considering their different church/state status. If you want to truly understand how this is so, go watch the YT video "Religion and irreligion in Denmark and the USA" with Phil Zuckerman, a professor of sociology and secular studies from California. He explains everything very comprehensively - I think you will find that video very fascinating as I did.
Your'e welcome. I was thinking you may appreciate the perspective of professor Phil since he is American and I believe he also lived in Denmark for some years while studying Denmark and it's relation to religion.
Me too, I started laughing the moment I saw it. And then also somehow in the style like those billbord in front of the church as we non americans can see it only on TV shows.... like "The Simpsons".... so next time you cover a chalkboard with a message?
My religion teacher said that most danes who are member of "folkekirken" is what she would call culturally christian, so it is more the culture than a believe. It can also be the want to preserve churches and so on. You also get access to having your wedding or funeral (cheaper) and some other things.
And she is wrong ;) Religion is a cultural code for interhuman behaviour. we all follow the religious rules in our social interactions, therefore we have a peacefull society. because we have a peacefull society, we are so well educated in christianity that we dont need the teachers anymore, we are home schooled so to speak.. And this is awsome because you dont give preachers power over your community, they can only provide advise not rulings :) Our culture is designed to keep the peace, IE Jantelov, keeps the peace by not flaunting your wealth, thereby creating envy which is a sin... we cannot combat envy, its a human feeling, so our solution is dont make ppl envious.. :) its all relgion but without the baddies ;) .
@@randersen2171 Are you saying that cultures developed with other religions aren't peaceful? Many religions are a lot of things, what you talk about is one of them. Every culture needs rules to follow for it to thrive, religion was a very easy way to provide those rules. But those rules have changed a lot during the years, I really hope you don't follow the rules provided by the bible. You would be a horrible person if you did..
@@jonashansson2320 Cultures that accept violence are inherently more violent compared to cultures that despise it... Many cultures and religions despise violence, som have exemptions and some embrace.. no, nobody follows the rules as they are states in the bible... its the whole bureucratic thinking.. The bible is not a rulebook its a gudeline to human life.. the good, the bad and the ugly :) It deals with common human problems, told in what used to be relatable stories... The bible is like Will smith hitting at the oscars to start a debate. Fake but relevant tool, to get a common frase of reference,, is it okay to hit when your girl is insulted?.. what does the culture say, the book of oscar shows that its okay.. this is our cultural lessons of today... im not religious im just pragmatic and acknowledges that if a guy who belives you may newer hit, and will smith is out drinking, one of them is gonna get hurt, with no fault of their own, perhaps. The bible used to be those common stories that we could reference when posing moral judgement. Like is it okay desire your neighbours wife... is it mandatory to share your ressources and to whom?.. the bible and im sure the other great religions to, has stories that you can mirror your actions into, to decide if your behaviour is universally good or selfish, like the one about the good samaritan is very relevant in these days of aid... :) Are ppl helping ukraine because they want, or because they want to be seen helping ;)
Like your good points there. Fun fact maybe is that a lot of children are baptized with the names of the viking religion like Thor, Balder, Esben, Freya, Astrid, Gunnar , Nanna, Siv and so on.
One thing you didn't mention about Denmark was that although we do have freedom of (and from) religion for almost all people, there is one person who is required to be a member of the state church: the reigning monarch. I would guess that by extension any heirs to the throne would also have to be members to qualify as heirs.
All heirs to the throne have to be members of the church. Mary had to convert from Presbyterianism, which traces its origins to the Church of Scotland, to Folkekirken before her marriage to Frederik. :)
Very interesting video, thank you, guys. In my case, I'm a member of 'folkekirken' , even though I'm an Agnostic leaning Atheist. I love the architectural style of the old Danish churches, and it's a large part of our history, and it's the only reason I'm a member today. I only go to church for 'Konfirmation', weddings, and funerals Stay safe everyone
We are all three in the same kind of thought as far as religion and (need to check on if we are paying the tax or not) but would happily pay it to keep the Danish churches in good repair. Plus we both love history, so visiting some of these buildings is worth the taxes.
@@RobeTrotting also a good reason to pay church taxes is so you can get married or hold a funeral in one. If you are not a member you will have to pay upfront to use, for a non member it costs around 10000 kr to be buried in a cemetery, plus the regular costs. I'm a hard atheist, meaning I am convinced there is no god, and I love singing hymns and doing the alter walk when attending. For me it's all about the atmosphere and community aspect. Still only at funerals and weddings 😅😅
Confirmation. At the age of 14, they get to confirm their own believe in christ (when they got baptised at 6months their parents talked on their behalf) If they have decided they do not believe in christ (either atheist or a different religion) they might have a "nonfirmation" gathering instead. It is traditionally used to mark the transition from child to young adult, these days it seems like some just do it for the party and presents (and some for finally getting permission to have a glass of wine or a beer together with the adults ;) )
So glad you made a video about this 🥰It is interesting to hear your point of view. That it can be different from state to state. The reason I see Americans as religious is what they show on TV and from the ones I have meet visiting. That is that they pray for everything, if someone is sick, if someone needs money, if someone is sad, if someone is happy for all occasions in their lives. That the church becomes like a family member, that you visit every sunday. In every speech you hear especially at award show they say I thank God or Jesus for blah blah blah blah and that is so foreign to me and to most Danes. So it might not be the majority, but it is the people that we hear and see that gave us that impression. 🤷♀️ For me there can go years between church visits, though I can see it from my house. And I only go there for an occasions like baptism, confirmation, wedding or funeral etc. We are many that pay to it, to get to have these events in the church. And for most of us, that is the only reason. 😊
Not to start a quibble, but the separation of church and state, doesn't really work in the US. A lot of new legislation, is based completely on the Bible and doesn't take into consideration, which way the modern world is moving The way that Denmark has a Church Minister and a Christian Party, you can vote for (if you so choose) feels more honest, to me....what's your take, guys? hello from Hundested 🌸🌱
100% agree, it’s almost like having a state religion “nips it in the bud” and there’s a little control and oversight (which is sorely lacking in the States). The legislation part is so bad and it’s because of one party co-opting religion to gain power and take advantage of a bad system of government that isn’t truly representative.
It's always interesting t watch your videos. You add that touch of statistics or facts that make them a little more, shall we say, profound. One thing to mention about Denmark. Although there's a state religion, there has been religious freedom since the late 16th century, where it was established that no person should be persecuted based on their belief (Jews were basically left alone, officially). There's a more pragmatic angle to things in Denmark, most people form their lives around their situation, not a deity. A perhaps a little far fetched example: NIels Bohr, a famous atheist and the 'father' of quantum theory, was being interviewed at his Summer house in West Jutland, he and the journalist were walking in the dunes in the area and returned to the ouse, when the journalist noticed a horseshoe hanging over the entrance. "I wouldn't think a man like you believed in such superstition," he said. "No I don't," said Bohr, "but I've been told they work anyway."
a lot of people are members cause we get signed up by our parrents babticing us, but a great deal of those people are not practicing. and some of us just leave the church as adults as we're not really using it anyway unless someone we know dies or gets married i guess, or cause it's just sort of tradition to do certain things
Yeah some friends say they stayed in it in case their kids wanted to and others just in case they met someone who wanted to get married in a church - like many things here, it seems practical and thought out 😊🇩🇰
'Opt in' in Denmark is done by being baptized in the 'folkekirke' (state church). So most kids 'opt in' the moment their parents decide to have them baptized.
@@voodoophil this is not entirely true. Yes you have to register the birth of a child at the local church office. But this is a strictly secular affair, and has to do with civil registration. You do not automatically become a member of the church. Membership is through baptism alone.
There's no opting in as an individual, the decision is made for you by your parrents. I myself just had to find this out and actively seek to opt out recently - I was never explained what, why and when. I think calling it to "opt in" is deceitfull.
@@KurtFrederiksen im not arguing that its deceitfull for parrents to make decisions for their child. Im arguing that calling it to "opt in" implies a choise that wasnt made by the individual itself. That is what i find deceitfull. I know the robetrotting guys prolly didnt mean to pose it like that, but that is how it ended up. Not hating on anyone, but i cant call a dog a cat, if you follow?
It's similar in Sweden. In 1970 95% of the Swedes were members of " svenska kyrkan" now 55%. Like in Denmark one could say culturally christians. Most people don't actively go to church every Sunday. When I studied at a university in California I noticed that most of my friends went to church on Sundays. I was approached by ministers and priests to join their groups.
Great improvements in editing. I am relatively used to your videos, but the opening had me blown away; you've gone well beyond being two dudes and a camera.
The reason the percentage is so high, is due to the fact that when you are born, you are registered in the church as a member You have to actively un-register, and most people dont do that.
I remember when Derek would always start your episodes with "Thank God you are here". I felt that was very American. No dane would even think about doing that. I am not a Christian of any kind. But I kind of like the state church. When somebody from the church makes any kind of statement it is usually eminently reasonable and very hard to disagree with. I also accept that the historical social functions of the church are mainly good. Getting together with your neighbors to sing a few psalms. Cultural events. Having a priest to talk to when you are grieving. These are good things. Our society are getting better at providing non-church alternatives, so the church is no longer a necessary as it once was. But the decline in church membership is still very, very slow. On the flip side, I do think that churches and religion in general encourages magical, irrational bronze-age beliefs that are really a hindrance in a modern world. I sincerely believe that the best priests are those that don't stress their religion too much and just focus on the welfare of their flocks.
We do say that though. We often say stuff like: “gudskelov du var her”, “gudskelov nåede vi det til tiden”. Gudskelov basically means praise god or thank god
It's actually more of a opt-out situation. If you were baptised in the Church of Denmark, you are automatically signed on to pay the tax (which happens when you are an infant). My step dad, who is definitely not religious, paid the church tax for 50 years without noticing. Also the church for some bizarre reason is in charge of birth and death certificates.
I Think one of the reasons there are so many members of the Church in Denmark is confirmation ( i Think that is how it is spelled in english ). I Think it is about 12 people in my class is getting confirmated, But only two really belive in god. A lot of teens only get confirmated for the money and gifts. A lot of people just stay in the State Church, and dont Care about the taks. I asked my older siplings, Who are in their late tweties, and they said it was the same when they Where teens. I i Can only speak for North Zealand though. I dont know how it is in the rest of Denmark. Sorry if for the spelling arrors, i am only 14
Thank you for watching Olga, and your English is so good! And it’s much better than our Danish sadly (but we will get better). You bring up a great point, and confirmation looks like so much fun in Denmark, so I understand why some people stay in it. Some of our friends said that they stayed in the church in case they met a spouse who wanted a church wedding or baptism in the future. It’s a really interesting concept for us, and different than the States but it’s just the way things are here 😊🇩🇰
This was an even bigger factor formerly. I was confirmed in 1996 (aged 13), and although I doubt anyone in my class of 25 or 26 pupils actively believed in God, only two were not confirmed in the church. Back then, ‘nonfirmations’ weren’t as big a thing as they are now. I myself told my parents that I didn’t want to be confirmed because I don’t have an iota of belief in anything religious, but they told me I wouldn’t get a party and presents in that case - so I did the church confirmation thing, lying through my teeth about forsaking the devil and all that stuff.
@@kokoshneta Im 10 years older than u. Back in 1986 every1 were confirmed. Not that any of us were religious, most of us never went to church except for weddings and funerals, and the few, who did, usually only went for Christmas service, and even that was more for the tradition than for any religious belief. Nonfirmations hadnt been invented yet, it was expected for the tradition and the party and the get-togetherness. Just like Christmas in Denmark isnt religious, its a culturel tradition, where we use the excuse to get together, get gifts and eat. And getting together and eat (too much) is pretty much a Danish national sport 😉 I have to say, having travelled a lot, Danes are the very LEAST religious ppl, Ive ever met, and almost all around here respect ppls privacy and dont try to do religious recruiting, Jehovas Witnesses being the obvious exception, but even the Witnesses have dialed down a lot.
In Denmark it is very much a cultural thing yes. And I honestly think that most chose to stay in folkekirken because the buildings are seen as part of our culture and heritage. I am not religious in any way but I am in the church because I start twitching at the prospect of church frescos from the 1100's being in private hands.
I'm not a part of Folkekirken, since my husband and I were married in Asetro/Old Norse 'beliefs', because we liked those traditions the best. We honestly didn't mind paying church tax, but since Christianity is weirdly stock up about allowing multiple types of worship, we had to withdraw our membership to get married the way we wanted. I remember that we received our birth certificates in the mail, along with a page-long letter detailing "all" the services we couldn't partake in. This was honestly fine for us. It seemed a little antagonistic at the time, but I guess that's why I'm not too fond of Christianity in general. I'm totally fine with the churches. I think it's a part of our history that's worth preserving, but it'd be nice if more space were given to Asetro, as it's also an important part of our makeup. Btw, "pagan" is a derogatory word invented by the church, and, by far, most people who claim to belong to Asetro, don't necessarily believe in the gods the same way a Christian would (as in, the gods aren't beings), but worships them as aspects of the human mind/emotions.
If you are not a member of Folkekirken, you can still be buried in a cemetery but there won't be a ceremony with a priest in the church. A grave is usually for 30 years only. It's not forever (like in the US?) .
@@RobeTrotting In fact the famous tombs of celebrities only survive because fans or family renew the lease every 10 years. Though for "sainted" bishops etc. that fan group might be the church itself.
Initial buyin for a grave is thirty years, that's how long decomposition takes and the soil being ready for another body. After that you can choose to keep the gravesite or stop payment.
@@winterchild6120 Probably only ten years after cremation - at least it's a shorter period of time. Are you sure about the 30 years? I seem to remember I paid for 20 years when my mom died.
40 seconds in, and you get a like on your video just for having enough humour to wear that t-shirt and have "like for Odin" on your board behind you.... WELL DONE 👍👍👍
There are still alot of observant christians in Denmark, but they mostly keep to themselves and with most of them you wouldnt even know, unless you asked.
remember member doesn't mean practicing.Despite the high membership figures, only 3% of the population regularly attend Sunday services and only 19% of Danes consider religion to be an important part of their life.
It is wrong to assume that the Church of Denmark is state sponsored just because it is a state church. According to our constitutions art. 68 no citizen is obliged to contribute to any other church than his own. Therefore members of the Church of Denmark pay a tax called "kirkeskat" and those who are not members do not pay this tax. The revenue covers all the expenses the Church. The exact wording of art. 68 is "Ingen er pligtig at yde personlige bidrag til nogen anden gudsdyrkelse end den, som er hans egen."
You are definitely very right about Danes opting in due to tradition. Of all the people I know, I can think of only one person who actually goes to church regularly, the rest pretty much just goes when they are invited to baptisms, confirmations, weddings and funerals, and maybe Christmas, if it fits into the schedule. And honestly I find that a bit silly, so personally I opted out when I became an adult, even though I'm both baptised and confirmed. I mean they aren't checking your membership card, if you are invited to a wedding or something like that. And honestly I don't buy the whole "preserving the culture" thing, we have more than 2000 churches in tiny Denmark, we could probably easily cut that in half without losing anything of significant historic value.
Interesting, and good points. Some friends we have talked to said the same or that they only remained a member in case they met someone who wanted a church wedding or to have their kids baptized and confirmed.
@@RobeTrotting As far as I know, most churches in Denmark will still do that, as long of one the people involved is a member, although it might be up to the individual priest to decide if they want to or not. The only real issue is they will probably not give you a funeral ceremony.
As a life-long church goer in the USA i think the first reason you mentioned for joining a religion is wayyyyy off. I.e. Very few affiliated with our church looking for any kind of material help. as i continued to listen...i wondered if you were just saying stuff off-the-cuff, or if you did research?
@@RobeTrotting Even though Scientology's european headquarters is located in Copenhagen, it isn't recognized as a religion here but a cult. I've considered to go picket and demonstrate against them outside their offices a bunch of times. They prey on the weak-minded and the vulnerable people. I ain't got no time or patience for cults like that. No matter how many movie stars they can attract into the fold they are nothing but a brainwashing cult and a money scheme, meant to extract money from insecure people looking for meaning in life. We had our own cult here in Denmark called "Orgasmens Madonna's Kirke" (The church of Madonna's Orgasm). It was a weird sexcult and eventually moved to Sweden instead. Rituals included drinking the juices from a woman's vagina. I'm all for people experimenting with sexual desires but to form a bogus religion around it is a bit more than I feel is necessary.
It's not necessarily that people opt-in themselves in Denmark as your parents can opt-in for you when you're a child and many simply forget or can't be bothered to opt-out when they turn 18.
Did you know that ? Gutzon Borglum, the creator of the famous Mount Rushmore National Memorial, was the son of a Danish immigrant. His full name John Gutzon de la Mothe Borglum may sound a bit Spanish or French, but it could not be further from the truth. In fact, the name Borglum originates from the Børglum Abbey and monastery, originally a royal farm which dated back as far as year 1000, if not earlier... and the name Mothe originate from Niels Sørensen Moth, who was a monk at the Børglum monastery at the time of the reformation. Monks were not allowed to get married and have children, but the Børglum monastery was dissolved when Denmark became officially Lutheran on 30 October 1536 and it became a royal property once again and so Niels Sørensen Moth then quit being a monk and became the first priest of Børglum Abbey and so he also got married and had two sons who also became priests, but they changed their last names to Børglum when they moved away from the Børglum monastery and parish, where they both lie buried. So if not for the Church reformation in 1536 in Denmark, leading to Niels Sørensen Moths change from being a monk to a lutheran priest, there would not have been a Gutzon Borglum and then also no Mount Rushmore National Memorial.
I don't mind the 1% tax if I'll just be treated with respect after I'm gone. But it'd be quite wrong to call me a believer. On the other hand I have nothing against believers. Peace be upon those whose life orbits around believing. I respect it and would not give you trouble because of it .. it's just not my own cup of tea. Leave it at that unless you really want a challenge... If you challenge my disbelief I'll tear your beliief apart while you watch. But until then, we can be the best of friends. That's basically the Danish perspective on religion.. we're mostly ok, but don't challenge us.
Spot on ! Most of us are born into the Church of Denmark. Personally I'm not a follower. I'm an atheist and probably support the sign behind you more 😀 , than organized religion. I still pay taxes to the Church ! Mostly for what you said.., tradition 😊 ! And I'm to lazy to leave (because you actually can and thereby avoid the Church tax 🙄 )! The tax is really low ! At the same time. I'm a member of a christian Scout organization (FDF). Not for the religion, but for giving kids some good experiences ! And in my troop, religion is not really a thing, it's just based on christian values. Not saying that the Danish Scout Corps (DDS), is not, they are !
@@RobeTrotting 4 of my coworkers are practicing "Asa" (Nordic viking religion). In the weekends they live the life. Personally I think it's a protest against organized religion, more than believing in Odin and Valhalla, because "Asa" is more free spirited and open minded, then most organized religions. With Danes attitude toward religion, its amusing that "The Church of Scientology" has it's European HQ in CPH, but not taxed exempt, since DK doesn't consider Scientology an actual religion.
@@KurtFrederiksen OK! Your right! But as soon as your parents baptized you, your automatically a member. If your parents are members, and choose to have you baptized, aren't you basically born into the church?
@@KurtFrederiksen Yeah! As I wrote ! If your parents choose to baptize you, your a member. At a later state, you can choose to get out. I don't get the argument here! We both basically agree!
@@RobeTrotting I didn't know that the church was state sponsored in Denmark... that's quite strange to me (even though I come from a country whose head of state is the head of the church, the church and state are separate, as they are in the USA). Thanks for another interesting and informative video.
My biggest ever taxcut came when I left "folkekirken". I dawned on me, that I payed for a membership to a club I never visited, and actually didnt really agree with.
@@kruse8888 got married at city hall. My kids Arent baptised, and when I am dead, ill be dead, and wont care. I might even just donate my body to science
I'm atheist, but i'm too lazy to opt out of the church taxes. I tell myself that i like our old churches, and want to help maintain them, but in all honesty, it's laziness. If i had to opt in to the tax i never would.
To all those in the comments, who claim, the Danish church is opt-out: NO, it is not. U are not automatically a member of the church, u only become a member, if u are baptised in the church. Meaning, if u have to opt-out now, its coz ur parents made the choice for u and had u baptised. If they had instead registered ur name at the local registrars office, as required by law, there would be no church membership, no need to opt-out once ur an adult.
I think I'm a rather average Dane. On paper I am a Protestant Christian. I never opted-in on church taxes, because I was automatically made a member of the church when I was baptized as a baby, and then I automatically started paying church tax when I started paying taxes. I don't really go to church regularly, and when I do it is not because of religious causes, but because of events happening, such as weddings, babtization, confirmations and funerals. I have considered a few times of opting-out, but then I'd not have access to servives, and when I die, my family would not get financial support for the funeral. In the end it is easier to just pay the bit through the taxes, something which I never really notice in my day to day life.
as an I guess outspoken atheist in Denmark I still pay my church tax. not because I want my children baptised etc. but simply because it is my way to help the church maintain it's many historic buildings. but beyond that religion in general is a very personal thing in Denmark. where I see religion in USA as a way to promote your self either for or against a certain set of values. And yes I know it is quite stereotypic and I know it is probably much more complex but atm I don't need more complexity. we all try to avoid complexity where we don't have a need for it :)
A few commentaries: 1) You become a member of folkekirken when you are baptised. Your parents can of course choose not to have you baptised… 2) The state is NOT the main financer of folkekirken. As a member of folkekirken you pay church tax averaging a little under 1% of your income. This is the main source of income for the church. The state pays 2/3 of priest salaries as they are also civil servants with several administrative functions. Church services are of course open and free for all people, but as a member the church will host your marriage service(s) and funeral service free of charge. The church owns most of the graveyards; as a member, that is as a co-financer, you rent your plot at a sizeable discount…
A few things more: 1) you can of course opt out as you please. 2) Every parish is run by an elected body called menighedsråd open to all parish members. The menighedsråd is the de jure employer of all employees other than the priests. Still the menighedsråd selects its priests - the bishop must sanction the priest though.
I was baptized as a baby but it was mostly to have an excuse for gathering the whole family and celebrating. I am sure many other families feel the same way. Being a member of the church means the priest is there to help when a family member passes away and the funeral service in the beautiful churches mean a lot to many people. If the deceased weren't a member they would be allowed to use the chapel instead (not the church) which is really not the same. I met som priests with horrible, old fashioned wiews so I opted out
Being a member do not mean that you are a believe or religious. Having a stat church is what keeps religion out of politics. Our priests have public servants and do not need to make their church into a business. Unlike in the US where religion is a huge one.
@@jimmybaldbird3853 In Denmark the priests get paid a wage by the state. And the money to pay other wages, maintain the church and so on come in automatically. In the US he need the people going to the church to donate money so he can get a wage. That make it very comparable to a business. And if you can get your "flock" agitated over some issue (like gay marriage, Transpeople or abortion) and you can tell them that you will work to help solve the issue... then even better, they will pay you more. The result is that the different churches are effectively competing for members... again comparable to any other entertainment business. The result is that religion is a billion $ business in the US... with plenty of "priests" who have gotten are very very rich on donations.
@@thomasbaagaard this is completely incorrect. First of all, the US does not have only one Christian sect like lutheran Denmark. What you described is only partially true for small small independent churches. Otherwise, they are paid through a governing body. There is no “agitation.” People willingly donate a dollar or two-far less than compulsory tax of the danish church tax. One could argue they “agitate” in DK with fears of no place of burial, not being able to be married in the church, etcetera. All in all though, it is clear you dont know anything about Christianity in the US. You seem to think it is all one giant Alabama baptist church from a movie.
I know quite a few Americans who are very religious without being member of any church, but they do believe in God, say grace before each meal, believe in the effect of prayers and so on, while a lot of Danish members of Folkekirken is atheists or agnostics.
@@RobeTrotting Maybe the question should be: "How much does religion mean to you in your daily life?" In North Carolina 85 % said that religion meant a lot to them, and in my favorite part of USA, the westen part of the state, the number was even higher. My guess is that if you ask the same question in Denmark, less than 10 % will answer that religion means a lot to them in their daily life. Maybe a bit higher if you include immigrants and refugees from Islamic countries.
I don't wan't to spoil your always interesting videos, but you said something about "in god we trust" maybee is from the cold war. I'm sitting here with a dollar from 1923, and it says "in god we trust" . Hmm, how do we (and I mean we) explain that? 🙂
Well based on what we researched - it was added to all currency and adopted as a motto in 1955 during the Cold War era BUT it first appeared on coins and eventually paper bills off and on starting at the onset of the Civil War. So that it's be on and off prior to 1955 - and now it's ON by law. It's also the time when the pledge of allegiance was amended to include "under God" etc.
No - Denmark does not have a state church - It is not the church of Denmark - its the church of the Danish people and as such is supported by the Danish state. It ceased to be a state church when the first constitution was enacted Yes the creators of the constitution messed up and just stated that the church should have be governed by its own law which the parliament then have failed to agree on since. Note that the minister of the church regulates all religious communities in Denmark and not just the peoples church but for some reason the politicians so far have felt free to abuse their power to discriminate against the Danish Peoples Church. Also note that to most Danes religion is a very private thing - more private than their sexual preference.
The danish church is not really an opt-in, but more of an opt-out. Most people are born into the church and will actively have to sign out to not pay the taxes. But as you said, most people just pay since its part of the tradition here. And traditions are more important for most, than religion, I think :)
its automatic when you are born in denmark that you are a member of folkeikirken and have to manually change yourself, it has nothing to do with religion
I don’t think that many danes think about, what it really means to get baptized. To most danes, it means naming the child, spending time with family and friends, ‘’hygge’’ and something good to eat. My sister made a choice not to baptize her son, she had him ‘’navngivet’’, given a name only. She said, he can make his own choice, when/if he wants to be confirmed. If he wanted to be confirmed, he had to be baptized first. He chose to be baptized and confirmed 15 years later. He truly believes in God, he didn’t even want a big confirmation, only his very close family. We were 12 guests. Some danes begin to go to church as they grow old and I have seen in hospice, that fatally sick people start to believe in God.
It’s both and it’s also both in some parts of America. There’s also Americans going to church every Sunday but are afraid of getting shunned by the community.
As a Dane, I was born "Christian" and as soon as I start making an erning, I would pay the church tax (annual a good weekend for two, good pay) there for I never refuse the tax, I could have done it in two minutes, even though I don't " believe" I still paid the tax
Oh my god (!!!) I enjoy your both cute faces, with good cheer written large all over them - you can really compete with the famous Danish charm, so may some god bless you, and help you keep it up. And sure it also is very deserving that you delve into facts and take nothing at face value. Thanks for food for thought again.
I am a Danish citizen and member of our state church. I am not very religious, and it has been more than a year since I have been to a church service. I pay my church tax, which funds the national church here. This tax funds our state church, but it is completely voluntary. I could avoid this tax simply by no longer being a member of the church. That would be saving me more than DKK 10.000 per year, but I do not want to do that. The church tax is not compelled, but voluntary. Even if you do not pay the church tax churches are open for you. You can attend services if you want to, and priests are usually open to help you with existential problems if you come to them. Here priests are hired to do services, but due to our religion everybody who needs help gets it - even if they are not a member of the church. Due to the voluntary church tax there is no commercial motive. The only motive is to help. Priests here do not have to help anybody, or do weddings or funerals for anybody who are not a member. But they do so anyway, if they believe it can help. A clear example was when my father died: He was a declared atheist, not a church member, and said he did not care what happened after he died. Me and the rest of my family wanted a funeral with a service, and the local priest agreed although he could have said no. He told me they had talked on several occasions, and although they did not agree on religion, he believed my late father was a good person. So he thought it was only right to do a funeral for him, even though he was not a church member. He also went a bit against our initial wishes by insisting the funeral being held in a chapel instead of a church, saying this would be closer to what he thought my father wanted, and we were happy with that.
Folkekirke is financed by it's members rather than by the government. It can tax its members piggybacking on the tax system. 12% of church funding comes from the government budget.
Only about 20% in Denmark believe in god, but approx. 80% have trust in each other. In the usa it is the opposite: 80% believe in god and 20% trust each other. Danes are also a very proud people and have a very strong belief in the Danish values. More than half of Danes go to church only on Christmas Eve, except for baptism, confirmation, wedding and funeral. By the way, we are Lutherans with quite a bit of Viking tradition and faith mixed in. Today, the churches are part of the cultural heritage that the Palaces and the Danish Property Agency "Slots og Ejendomsstyrelsen" maintains
Being a part of the church is unfortunately not an active choice, but an active opt-out. We’re indeed not very religious, people just doesn’t get to leave the church - they forget. Even though they’re paying ~ 1 % taxes (0,98). I left in january, and I already love it. Why be a part of the church when you don’t believe in God? Luckily, the ‘hidden’ atheistic percentage is much higher than the official ‘non-member’ 26 %.
@@RobeTrotting You can see it on your paycheck. If you’re opted out it should be 38 % before ‘topskat’. Otherwise 39 + topskat. Not counted ‘AM’ in of course.
@@KurtFrederiksen Why? It's the same thing, the parents opt-in way of saying is just abit more deceitful and scammy :) Either way, all of this is becoming much more apparant.. The fact that nonfirmations aren't looked down upon anymore helps a great deal, how cool is it that we give our teens the ability to choose, rather than force it upon them(Telling a teen that you only get a party and presents if you get baptized is essentially forcing them).
@@Vradica Ur missing the point. Nonfirmation aside, if the teens parents had their child baptised, the child is already opted-in to the church regardless of confirmation or not. The choice is made by the parents, when they choose to either baptise the child, which registers the childs name AND opts-in church membership or choose to register the childs name at the municipality, which only registers the childs name, and the child can then decide itself later. Kurt's point is, that there is no automatic registration as a church member. Every1 are saying, ur automatically in and have to choose to opt-out, and as Kurt says, that is false. Ur parents made u a member of the church, when they chose to have u baptised in the church instead of registering u at the municipality. Thats why ppl have to opt-out later, thanks to their parents, NOT due to the mythical automatic membership. There was a really shitty segment on "Godaften Danmark" a while back, with a guy paying fines coz he hadnt registered his childs name yet, which u have to do within a certain time, 3 month if I remember correctly. He falsely claimed, that he had to pay fines, coz he refused to register his child as a church member. The journalists completely failed to push back on his false claims and also failed in explained, how it actually works. The only correct thing, the guy said, was, that registering his childs name in the church aka getting his child baptised, would make the child a member of the church, which he as an atheist refused. I get that, Im an atheist myself. But he was still full of shit. There was no need to pay fines or whine on tv in front of failed journalist not doing their job. All, he had to do, was register his childs name at the municipality, and all would be fine. The law would be complied with, the child registered, and no membership of the church required at all.
Lots of people seem to think that the majority of church members are just 'culturally Christian ". Maybe. But how do you know the actual belief of others? Dan Denne, a philosopher who had thought hard on religion, thinks that maybe this is the future of religion. Not so much a matter of scriptural beliefs, more a matter of cultural communities. I think that would be a good thing.
I am always puzzled when I hear about the segregation of state in church in the US. You do mention how Americans often mention God casually, but there is still the fact that religion seems so deeply rooted in the laws, or at least the amendments. Of course the most recent example being the subject of abortion where the biggest arguments against the access to abortion where found in the Bible. That would never ever happen in Denmark.
I'm a member of the Danish State Church... Which is hilarious to me as an atheist. I am literally to lazy and unconcerned about it to go to the website and login to write myself out of it.
I wish you would have made clear that for all intents and purposes, we DO have a separation between church and state since our 1849 constitution. Yes, the church is subsidized by the state, through a tax, but you can opt out of paying it. That's not common for a tax in its traditional conception. Further, that 74% number is misleading, because Danes don't actually opt-in to Folkekirken, their parents are obligated to opt them in at birth, and then they can later decide to opt-out. Which is something most Danes aren't aware you can do. The operation of the churches is also not something the state really cares about. Sure, it regulates and sets boundaries for the church, but the boundaries are the same for all religious institutions here. To say we don't have a separation of church and state in Denmark is akin to saying we aren't a republic or a democracy, but rather a monarchy, simply because we have a queen. Much like with our queen, the fact that Folkekirken is part of the state, is much more of a formality, than a reality. It would be much more accurate to say Folkekirken is owned by the *people* and in the danish context that very much means the state gets to take part in that ownership, since it represents them directly. Like others have said, it's much more of a culural and national thing, than a religious bond. You'll find a lot of Danes who aren't religious still call themselves "cultural christians", and what they mean is in a national sense. A lot of our songs and traditions have ties back to christianity. Like the tradition of the queen ending all her new year's speeches with "GUD BEVARE DANMARK". That's absolutely iconic, and something every Dane, religious or not, wants to preserve in the culture.
@@KurtFrederiksen For the unions, unemployment benefit used to be a membership service, but the government has spent about 50 years taking control of the system and enforcing ever tighter restrictions on coverage and administration.
One tricky thing here is that the church is run by politicians that we all vote for. Not just the Christians. Most politicians that are not Christians keep a low profile on church matters. But if the majority is ever non-christian, the system will need reform. Likely in the form of some more autonomy for the church (a synode).
@@KurtFrederiksen My sole point is, that if I am ever elected to parliament and suggest that all priest should wear red clown noses and big clown feet when preaching, and a majority of non -Christians support the idea, the church may not feel too happy about it. The promise paragraph in the constitution is really not a good basis for any argument, since it has never been fulfilled. We have never had a church constitution given by law, as required by the constitution. Instead we have a strange hodge-podge of edicts from the ministry on some matters, and bishops making decisions on other matters. I don't claim to understand it. But as long as the church is satisfied with it, I don't much care either.
USA is not a secular state. It is a non-confessional state, which means that the government leaves room for all confessions (originally only Christian denominations). Denmark is actually a secular state even though we have a state church. The state - as well as most politicians - never base any laws on religious grounds or church confessions, although they usually respect the inner workings of the church and leaves those to the church itself (more or less). Folkekirken (actually written "folkekirken") funds itself, although those funds are gained through taxation of the members. The clergy is most civil servants and so the state pays 40% of their wages, while folkekirken pays the rest.
About 15% of the Danish people church is paid by the tax payer but that is to keep the buildings intact you choose if you pay to the church or not (apart from what the state gives to upkeep of the buildings) its a part of the Danish grundlov (/"constitution")
Tom Cruise is not doing religion, he is doing Scientology, In Denmark you're automatically joining the church when born, meaning that 26% actively opted out. Most of our churches are from the 1200 century, part of culture, and very high maintenance, so if we want to preserve them, it's better done this way, although, i would personally prefer to seperate the church from the state, but the horror scenario is that we might end up with the same as USA.
Danes don't opt into the Danish church. You're automatically a member from birth. The latest survey from TV2 about religion, is from TV2 and a newspaper in 2017. The links are in the Danish Wikipedia page, regarding religion in Denmark. According to the survey, less than half the Danes are religious, and according to several surveys, one being about religion in Denmark, only between 8-15% "attend church service" 'often'. This is vastly different from the US. Many of the religious Danes, believe in a deity of some kind, but not by default the one from the bible. If you choose to opt out of the Danish church, you will "save" the (I think) 2% tax, but the government then just charges the tax for other purpose. So you don't save anything. You will also have a harder time being married in a church, or even being buried. So most people leave it "as is". Many, as some other mentioned in this comment section, don't mind supporting the Danish churches, even though they are atheists. For historic reasons etc.
"like for Odin" ;-) Good old Grundtvig. Actually, its Thor not Odin. Freedom for Loke as well as for Thor. Grundtvig is key for understanding christianity in Denmark. Heres an other one "Human first, christian then"
I really liked the 10 reasons not to move to DK. This video you have one fundamental fact incorrect. The church tax is not opt in, it is in fact opt out and my reason to say so is, because almost everyone is born into the religion, so when you had no choice to getting it, it becomes a topic of opt out option. God weekend 🍻
No, ur wrong. The church membership/tax is NOT opt-out, it is indeed opt-in. Ur problem is, that ur parents chose membership for u, when they had u baptised. If they instead registered ur name at the local registrars office, u would not be a church member and not pay church tax. Im truly astonished at how many ppl in these comment do not understand that simple fact. Ur parents chose for u, they opted in on ur behalf, there is NO automatic membership.
It’s not a State religion in any sence. And it’s not state funded. It’s a State Church, and the members pays most of the church costs. Membership is a tax - payed only by members but automatically along with all other taxed. Church tax is 1 - 1,5 % = 8,7 billion kr in 2018. The state pays additional 830 million = 10% of the church tax But the state pa
Sadly, in practice, the US does not have separation of church and state. They teach creationism in some public schools and most senate/congress decisions and even the supreme court are based on religion and not data, information, science.
Sure I’m a member of the church, but thats only because I’m baptized, and didn’t bother to *”cancel my membership”* but are as far from religious in any way or form 😉
One thing I do find a bit puzzling though. Despite America having separated church and state, WHY do you guys always have to include God in eg. getting sworn in as President, when you're a witness in court ect. putting your hand on a bible. Yes, I know you can opt to NOT add the "so help me God" for being sworn in as President, but none in the last century has gone for the "affirmation" instead of the "oath" (affirmation = not ending it with the "so help me God"). Not THAT separated after all.... ;)
@@daedala70 Yet they still chose to. And I did write that I'm aware that they can "opt out" (affirmation vs oath example), but none in "recent history" has "opted out" (and I'd say that the past century is going back long enough to perhaps even not being "recent history" any more if you ask the younger generations....)
Religion in Sweden is more complex. Secularity is a cornerstone in Swedish society. We don’t show out religion, it we have one, in public, it is private. And most people are not “religious” but at least in it because of traditions. Baptism is something that is cultural. We have smaller religious denominations and faiths. In the past they were not allowed because the Church of Sweden held a monopoly being a state church. The Church of Sweden was made “independent” from the State in year 2000. Cementing the secular values. There are still laws regulating it though, but parliamentary politics don’t affect it. By law it is the national church of Sweden. They can also collect the church fee from members as it still were a tax. Every citizen pays a funeral tax regardless of membership in any religioua organization. The Church of Sweden is in fact politicized democratic institution. Church parties candidate to the Church Council. Some parties are actually affiliated with the political parties that represent the people in the parliament. So getting elected to the council a part of the political game since that influences the work of the Church around the world - affect what people think of Sweden. The State does give financial support to any religious organization.
You don't really opt in to the starte church.. Rather you opt out... If your parents are members when you are born... You are automatically a member which don't really matter until you start making money and paying taxes... On top of the normal tax you Pay an extra 5% in church tax... You can always opt out and don't Pay that extra 5% but it's a bit of a hassle so most People don't bother... I was 13 when my family signed us out so luckily i never paid church tax...
@@rb6808 det må være noget noget "nyt" (er 77'er) for jeg ikke blevet døbte og måtte melde mig ud da jeg var Ca 13... Det med skatten har du sikkert ret i... Som sagte har jeg aldrig skulle betale den eller også er den faldet siden 90'erne...
You do not have to pay church taxes to have your children confirmed. And actually, you do not have to be a member of the church to be godfather/godmother of a child at a baptism. However you have to be baptised to be confirmed and confirmed to be godfather/godmother.
Sorry but you have a blind spot when it comes to what is perceived as religious. All the examples you mention and shrug of as not being important. Would be considered weird and ultra religious if done by a Dane in Denmark (slighty exaggerated for effect) Also having religious groups protesting abortion, tv-shows, movies, magazines, song lyrics etc. again weird and ultra religious and just wouldn’t happen in Denmark. Hence the perception of the US as being religious, it’s just so far removed from Danish society. Don’t you think much of the censorship you see in the US when it comes to music, tv and music has its roots firmly planted in religious organizations? Again we don’t have that to the same extend in Denmark. Take a show like “John Dillermand”, imagine the outcry if shown nationwide in the US. Maybe you just need to come to terms with the fact, that even though you don’t perceive your nation as particularly religious, nations where religion plays a smaller part certainly does.
Equality for Loki as for Thor. Folkekirken is regulated by law and supported (financed) by the state. If you are a member of another religious community, you finance that church yourself. It is funny that those who sign out of the folkekirken to save money from the churchtax forget that they can go back 3 years for a private person (5 years for a municipality/state) in the tax account and get this 3 years of tax money back, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha........ Spare på 2 Øren og lade Daleren rulle. Kærlig hilsen Jan
Regarding hardcore Christians Denmark might not be that high on the list.. but... I think spirituality is high in Denmark.. a belief in there being more between heaven and earth than we might be able to explain.. but the same time danes dont really deny there being a god.. or even deny Tor and Odin.. Christianity might not be Up in your face here in Denmark, but there are Christian ties or roots everywhere around us.. both from the state religion, but also from the Many free-churces (like the pentacostal church). Charity shops, scouts, organisations, private schools, efterskoler ect. Faith, belief and spirituality is just a more private matter in Denmark. Personally i have dual church membership, the state church and a free church.. the same time I dont shy back from wearing both a cross or Tors hammer around my neck as a pendant in a chain.. its personal for me.. but again probably more about spirituality than hardcore up-in-your-face christianity 🙂
The biggest thing here is that the Danish church is opt-out and not in. I've been paying taxes, being a member of a club I don't believe in for over 20 years before actually realising that I shouldn't. Tradition doesn't validate upkeep,necessarily. Also I have a hard time believing that the average Dane would thank "a higher being" of any sort for what they have accomplished.
No, the church is not opt-out. There is no automatic membership. Ur parents chose for u, they opted-in for u, when they had u baptised. If they had instead registered ur name at the local registars office, as required by law, u would not be a church member and could urself decide to opt-in or stay out, when u turned 18. But until ur 18, ur parents get to chose for u, and they chose to make u a member, thats why u as a adult have to opt-out, NOT due to some kind of forced membership.
So do you guys believe in god? Im personally a member of baptised and konfimeret, which means im technically Christian but do not believe in religion or god what so ever
Good question. Neither of us is religious and I guess teeter between agnostic and atheist most of the time. Mike grew up Catholic and Derek grew up lutheran but neither of us have been to church in years besides weddings.
Danes are NOT!!!! born into Folkekirken! But the majority of Danish parents decide to baptize their children, which is how you become a member. The church is taking care of registering people as a tradition, not because we become members at birth. For centuries the church has taken care of that, and for some reason (probably money) it hasn't been moved to Borgerservice. The average member of Folkekirken uses it for baptism, confirmation, weddings and funerals. And if you ask people if they believe in god, you often get the answer "Jeg tror på at der er et-eller-andet/I believe there's something". God is not important to the average Dane. Love from a Danish atheist, who has never been a member.
We pretty much laid out what you explained really well and even better 😊🇩🇰 it’s only if you don’t dig beneath the surface of the statistics that you realize the reality of religion (and the difference between tradition and religiosity). Thanks for watching Camilla 🙌🏼
Religion is more a cultural thing in Denmark than faith based.
We think so too - national identity and tradition. And also the same for a lot of Americans too.
Same in Sweden and i guess all nordic countries.
Its also for hygge, like around christmas
@@johanberggren7598 what's this Swedia ateis?
I would like to add a bit more context to the concept of joining the Danish Folkekirke. Most people who are members of the church don't "opt in", so to speak, at least not by their own desire. Most (if not the vast majority) instead become part of the church through baptism. Baptism of babies in Denmark remains popular even among non-religious families who never attend church. This means most danes are members almost from birth by default, and that you actively have to choose whether or not you want to "opt out", something which you have to go out of your way to do. Many danes choose to stay in simply because of the services provided, like getting married in a church and a funeral space for the day they die, even though they are irreligious.
Anecdotal experience: The only really religious danes I've encountered tend to be old people of my grandparents generation. At best, younger danes who might identify as religious would say something akin to "I guess there might be a god." (not necessarily specifying a Christian god), and rarely or never attend religious services. The "20% identifying as religious" probably gives you a better insight into the actual religiosity of danes compared to the "74% church membership" number".
Also worthy to mention is the event of "Confirmation" which is an church-related event at the age of 13-15, where kids are asked if they will confirm their belief (aka be/stay part of the people's church). This for most people is mostly a tradition-bound event, rather than a religious one. And since it is offered to everyone, it means that even kids that weren't originally baptized, might still opt to join in if their friendgroup is upholding the tradition. The whole deal about there being a big celebratory party with gifts and so on certainly also caters to quite a few (even though celebrating the non-confirmation is also getting increasingly more popular as an alternative).
@@Real_MisterSir you cant get Konfirmeret without getting baptized first. So if you are not Baptized as a baby you will have to be so as a teen before the Konfirmation.
@@Temptation666 that's a part of my point. That even if you weren't baptized and brought into the people's church as a baby, you might still end up going through with confirmation (baptizing and admittance to the church) because of the event for many teenagers being more related to a social event than a pure belief-based one.
@@Real_MisterSir Teens do indeed rarely go through confirmation due to religious persuasion in Denmark. In the eyes of most danish young teens, the allure of confirmation is that you get to be the center of attention, you get to wear fancy suits or dresses and you get an absolute flood of presents and money. As a preteen I went to my older cousin's confirmation and witnessed him get more than 20000 kr in cash (that's more than 2500 dollars/euros), an amount of money many kids only dream of receiving. My thoughts back then was "whatever I have to do, I want the same as him", which made me decide to get my confirmation. Of course, I hadn't taken any real position on whether or not I believed in any god, I just wanted money and a party. Most kids who were getting a confirmation along with me also didn't show any real interest in the religious aspects. As an atheist, I regret participating in something I did not believe in, but that is what danish confirmations are today: a religious ritual disguised as a prom event where preteens get showered in money and attention, without paying any interest too what kind of values they are supposed to commit to.
My confirmation basically just funded my purchase of gaming consoles and a boatload of video games. What preteen would say no to that?
That being said, it has become more normalized to have non-religious confirmations (or "nonfirmation" as we tend to call it), where you commit yourself to other values, such as humanism/adulthood/whatever you fancy. So you may choose to have the party, money and attention without the Christian aspects of a confirmation.
You guys make some good points. On the surface, it is indeed a puzzling fact that America is the most religious western country while Denmark is the least religious country in the world, especially considering their different church/state status. If you want to truly understand how this is so, go watch the YT video "Religion and irreligion in Denmark and the USA" with Phil Zuckerman, a professor of sociology and secular studies from California. He explains everything very comprehensively - I think you will find that video very fascinating as I did.
Ah, cool - thanks for the recommendation Martin, sounds right up our alley as a topic 😊🇩🇰
Your'e welcome. I was thinking you may appreciate the perspective of professor Phil since he is American and I believe he also lived in Denmark for some years while studying Denmark and it's relation to religion.
Very good video
Not sure if I found the right video, but I ended up in a state where I thought to myself that the local housing union was doing more than the church.
@@BenjaminVestergaard If you didn't see a 20 minute lecture video with Phill Zuckerman with that exact title then no, you didn't find the right video.
"Like for Odin"... I laughed out loud. Thank you, needed that one!
Haha 😂 trying something new - we thought it was pretty funny, glad you liked it too haha
@@RobeTrotting Either a very forward/modern or retro take on Jump for Jesus 😂
Belive its the one of the first times, I have seen old nordic Odin, and Jesus in the same "movie"
@@RobeTrotting unfortunately "Asatro" it's not a recognized religion in Denmark which is a bit absurd.
Me too, I started laughing the moment I saw it. And then also somehow in the style like those billbord in front of the church as we non americans can see it only on TV shows.... like "The Simpsons".... so next time you cover a chalkboard with a message?
My religion teacher said that most danes who are member of "folkekirken" is what she would call culturally christian, so it is more the culture than a believe. It can also be the want to preserve churches and so on. You also get access to having your wedding or funeral (cheaper) and some other things.
And she is wrong ;) Religion is a cultural code for interhuman behaviour. we all follow the religious rules in our social interactions, therefore we have a peacefull society. because we have a peacefull society, we are so well educated in christianity that we dont need the teachers anymore, we are home schooled so to speak.. And this is awsome because you dont give preachers power over your community, they can only provide advise not rulings :) Our culture is designed to keep the peace, IE Jantelov, keeps the peace by not flaunting your wealth, thereby creating envy which is a sin... we cannot combat envy, its a human feeling, so our solution is dont make ppl envious.. :) its all relgion but without the baddies ;)
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@@randersen2171 Are you saying that cultures developed with other religions aren't peaceful?
Many religions are a lot of things, what you talk about is one of them. Every culture needs rules to follow for it to thrive, religion was a very easy way to provide those rules. But those rules have changed a lot during the years, I really hope you don't follow the rules provided by the bible. You would be a horrible person if you did..
@@jonashansson2320 Cultures that accept violence are inherently more violent compared to cultures that despise it... Many cultures and religions despise violence, som have exemptions and some embrace.. no, nobody follows the rules as they are states in the bible... its the whole bureucratic thinking.. The bible is not a rulebook its a gudeline to human life.. the good, the bad and the ugly :) It deals with common human problems, told in what used to be relatable stories... The bible is like Will smith hitting at the oscars to start a debate. Fake but relevant tool, to get a common frase of reference,, is it okay to hit when your girl is insulted?.. what does the culture say, the book of oscar shows that its okay.. this is our cultural lessons of today... im not religious im just pragmatic and acknowledges that if a guy who belives you may newer hit, and will smith is out drinking, one of them is gonna get hurt, with no fault of their own, perhaps. The bible used to be those common stories that we could reference when posing moral judgement. Like is it okay desire your neighbours wife... is it mandatory to share your ressources and to whom?.. the bible and im sure the other great religions to, has stories that you can mirror your actions into, to decide if your behaviour is universally good or selfish, like the one about the good samaritan is very relevant in these days of aid... :) Are ppl helping ukraine because they want, or because they want to be seen helping ;)
Like your good points there. Fun fact maybe is that a lot of children are baptized with the names of the viking religion like Thor, Balder, Esben, Freya, Astrid, Gunnar , Nanna, Siv and so on.
One thing you didn't mention about Denmark was that although we do have freedom of (and from) religion for almost all people, there is one person who is required to be a member of the state church: the reigning monarch. I would guess that by extension any heirs to the throne would also have to be members to qualify as heirs.
All heirs to the throne have to be members of the church. Mary had to convert from Presbyterianism, which traces its origins to the Church of Scotland, to Folkekirken before her marriage to Frederik. :)
Very interesting video, thank you, guys.
In my case, I'm a member of 'folkekirken' , even though I'm an Agnostic leaning Atheist.
I love the architectural style of the old Danish churches, and it's a large part of our history, and it's the only reason I'm a member today.
I only go to church for 'Konfirmation', weddings, and funerals
Stay safe everyone
We are all three in the same kind of thought as far as religion and (need to check on if we are paying the tax or not) but would happily pay it to keep the Danish churches in good repair. Plus we both love history, so visiting some of these buildings is worth the taxes.
@@RobeTrotting also a good reason to pay church taxes is so you can get married or hold a funeral in one. If you are not a member you will have to pay upfront to use, for a non member it costs around 10000 kr to be buried in a cemetery, plus the regular costs. I'm a hard atheist, meaning I am convinced there is no god, and I love singing hymns and doing the alter walk when attending. For me it's all about the atmosphere and community aspect. Still only at funerals and weddings 😅😅
@@RobeTrotting you probably are, the way it works is that you pay it by default - it's an opt-out system.
Out of curiosity, what is "Konfirmation"?
Confirmation.
At the age of 14, they get to confirm their own believe in christ (when they got baptised at 6months their parents talked on their behalf)
If they have decided they do not believe in christ (either atheist or a different religion) they might have a "nonfirmation" gathering instead.
It is traditionally used to mark the transition from child to young adult, these days it seems like some just do it for the party and presents (and some for finally getting permission to have a glass of wine or a beer together with the adults ;) )
So glad you made a video about this 🥰It is interesting to hear your point of view. That it can be different from state to state. The reason I see Americans as religious is what they show on TV and from the ones I have meet visiting. That is that they pray for everything, if someone is sick, if someone needs money, if someone is sad, if someone is happy for all occasions in their lives. That the church becomes like a family member, that you visit every sunday. In every speech you hear especially at award show they say I thank God or Jesus for blah blah blah blah and that is so foreign to me and to most Danes. So it might not be the majority, but it is the people that we hear and see that gave us that impression. 🤷♀️
For me there can go years between church visits, though I can see it from my house. And I only go there for an occasions like baptism, confirmation, wedding or funeral etc. We are many that pay to it, to get to have these events in the church. And for most of us, that is the only reason. 😊
Not to start a quibble, but the separation of church and state, doesn't really work in the US.
A lot of new legislation, is based completely on the Bible and doesn't take into consideration, which way the modern world is moving
The way that Denmark has a Church Minister and a Christian Party, you can vote for (if you so choose) feels more honest, to me....what's your take, guys?
hello from Hundested 🌸🌱
100% agree, it’s almost like having a state religion “nips it in the bud” and there’s a little control and oversight (which is sorely lacking in the States). The legislation part is so bad and it’s because of one party co-opting religion to gain power and take advantage of a bad system of government that isn’t truly representative.
And Kristendemokraterne hasn't been in Folketinget for years. They clearly aren't speaking to anyone but their members.
@@rphb5870 yes we do. we just dont vote on them 🤣
Love how Dereks shirt matches the videos topic/theme 😂
Mike INSISTED on it 👕 😂
It's always interesting t watch your videos. You add that touch of statistics or facts that make them a little more, shall we say, profound.
One thing to mention about Denmark. Although there's a state religion, there has been religious freedom since the late 16th century, where it was established that no person should be persecuted based on their belief (Jews were basically left alone, officially). There's a more pragmatic angle to things in Denmark, most people form their lives around their situation, not a deity. A perhaps a little far fetched example:
NIels Bohr, a famous atheist and the 'father' of quantum theory, was being interviewed at his Summer house in West Jutland, he and the journalist were walking in the dunes in the area and returned to the ouse, when the journalist noticed a horseshoe hanging over the entrance. "I wouldn't think a man like you believed in such superstition," he said. "No I don't," said Bohr, "but I've been told they work anyway."
a lot of people are members cause we get signed up by our parrents babticing us, but a great deal of those people are not practicing. and some of us just leave the church as adults as we're not really using it anyway unless someone we know dies or gets married i guess, or cause it's just sort of tradition to do certain things
Yeah some friends say they stayed in it in case their kids wanted to and others just in case they met someone who wanted to get married in a church - like many things here, it seems practical and thought out 😊🇩🇰
'Opt in' in Denmark is done by being baptized in the 'folkekirke' (state church). So most kids 'opt in' the moment their parents decide to have them baptized.
Yeah, rather practical approach 😊🇩🇰
@@voodoophil this is not entirely true. Yes you have to register the birth of a child at the local church office. But this is a strictly secular affair, and has to do with civil registration. You do not automatically become a member of the church. Membership is through baptism alone.
There's no opting in as an individual, the decision is made for you by your parrents. I myself just had to find this out and actively seek to opt out recently - I was never explained what, why and when.
I think calling it to "opt in" is deceitfull.
@@TheTobiasandersen95 - I was fortunate enough, that my parents never 'opted in' on my behalf. It was quite uncommon 58 years ago.
@@KurtFrederiksen im not arguing that its deceitfull for parrents to make decisions for their child. Im arguing that calling it to "opt in" implies a choise that wasnt made by the individual itself. That is what i find deceitfull.
I know the robetrotting guys prolly didnt mean to pose it like that, but that is how it ended up.
Not hating on anyone, but i cant call a dog a cat, if you follow?
It's similar in Sweden. In 1970 95% of the Swedes were members of " svenska kyrkan" now 55%. Like in Denmark one could say culturally christians. Most people don't actively go to church every Sunday. When I studied at a university in California I noticed that most of my friends went to church on Sundays. I was approached by ministers and priests to join their groups.
How with turkiye?
Great improvements in editing. I am relatively used to your videos, but the opening had me blown away; you've gone well beyond being two dudes and a camera.
The reason the percentage is so high, is due to the fact that when you are born, you are registered in the church as a member
You have to actively un-register, and most people dont do that.
I remember when Derek would always start your episodes with "Thank God you are here". I felt that was very American. No dane would even think about doing that.
I am not a Christian of any kind. But I kind of like the state church. When somebody from the church makes any kind of statement it is usually eminently reasonable and very hard to disagree with.
I also accept that the historical social functions of the church are mainly good. Getting together with your neighbors to sing a few psalms. Cultural events. Having a priest to talk to when you are grieving. These are good things. Our society are getting better at providing non-church alternatives, so the church is no longer a necessary as it once was. But the decline in church membership is still very, very slow.
On the flip side, I do think that churches and religion in general encourages magical, irrational bronze-age beliefs that are really a hindrance in a modern world. I sincerely believe that the best priests are those that don't stress their religion too much and just focus on the welfare of their flocks.
We do say that though. We often say stuff like: “gudskelov du var her”, “gudskelov nåede vi det til tiden”. Gudskelov basically means praise god or thank god
It's actually more of a opt-out situation. If you were baptised in the Church of Denmark, you are automatically signed on to pay the tax (which happens when you are an infant). My step dad, who is definitely not religious, paid the church tax for 50 years without noticing. Also the church for some bizarre reason is in charge of birth and death certificates.
“Like for Odin”
😂 hahaha love it ! ❤️❤️❤️
😂 thank you
I Think one of the reasons there are so many members of the Church in Denmark is confirmation ( i Think that is how it is spelled in english ). I Think it is about 12 people in my class is getting confirmated, But only two really belive in god. A lot of teens only get confirmated for the money and gifts. A lot of people just stay in the State Church, and dont Care about the taks. I asked my older siplings, Who are in their late tweties, and they said it was the same when they Where teens. I i Can only speak for North Zealand though. I dont know how it is in the rest of Denmark.
Sorry if for the spelling arrors, i am only 14
Thank you for watching Olga, and your English is so good! And it’s much better than our Danish sadly (but we will get better).
You bring up a great point, and confirmation looks like so much fun in Denmark, so I understand why some people stay in it. Some of our friends said that they stayed in the church in case they met a spouse who wanted a church wedding or baptism in the future. It’s a really interesting concept for us, and different than the States but it’s just the way things are here 😊🇩🇰
@@RobeTrotting Nonfirmation is pretty common these days. Like a confirmation party, but with no religious content and no ceremony.
This was an even bigger factor formerly. I was confirmed in 1996 (aged 13), and although I doubt anyone in my class of 25 or 26 pupils actively believed in God, only two were not confirmed in the church.
Back then, ‘nonfirmations’ weren’t as big a thing as they are now. I myself told my parents that I didn’t want to be confirmed because I don’t have an iota of belief in anything religious, but they told me I wouldn’t get a party and presents in that case - so I did the church confirmation thing, lying through my teeth about forsaking the devil and all that stuff.
@@kokoshneta Im 10 years older than u. Back in 1986 every1 were confirmed. Not that any of us were religious, most of us never went to church except for weddings and funerals, and the few, who did, usually only went for Christmas service, and even that was more for the tradition than for any religious belief. Nonfirmations hadnt been invented yet, it was expected for the tradition and the party and the get-togetherness. Just like Christmas in Denmark isnt religious, its a culturel tradition, where we use the excuse to get together, get gifts and eat. And getting together and eat (too much) is pretty much a Danish national sport 😉
I have to say, having travelled a lot, Danes are the very LEAST religious ppl, Ive ever met, and almost all around here respect ppls privacy and dont try to do religious recruiting, Jehovas Witnesses being the obvious exception, but even the Witnesses have dialed down a lot.
In Denmark it is very much a cultural thing yes. And I honestly think that most chose to stay in folkekirken because the buildings are seen as part of our culture and heritage. I am not religious in any way but I am in the church because I start twitching at the prospect of church frescos from the 1100's being in private hands.
I'm not a part of Folkekirken, since my husband and I were married in Asetro/Old Norse 'beliefs', because we liked those traditions the best. We honestly didn't mind paying church tax, but since Christianity is weirdly stock up about allowing multiple types of worship, we had to withdraw our membership to get married the way we wanted.
I remember that we received our birth certificates in the mail, along with a page-long letter detailing "all" the services we couldn't partake in.
This was honestly fine for us. It seemed a little antagonistic at the time, but I guess that's why I'm not too fond of Christianity in general.
I'm totally fine with the churches. I think it's a part of our history that's worth preserving, but it'd be nice if more space were given to Asetro, as it's also an important part of our makeup.
Btw, "pagan" is a derogatory word invented by the church, and, by far, most people who claim to belong to Asetro, don't necessarily believe in the gods the same way a Christian would (as in, the gods aren't beings), but worships them as aspects of the human mind/emotions.
Hehe yeah like most satanist don't believe in satan... Well if they are LaVeyan anyways...
If you are not a member of Folkekirken, you can still be buried in a cemetery but there won't be a ceremony with a priest in the church. A grave is usually for 30 years only. It's not forever (like in the US?) .
Not permanent?!?! SAY WHAAAAAA?! Wow, that’s so interesting! We had no idea. Thanks for adding that fact David, super interesting 😊🇩🇰
@@RobeTrotting In fact the famous tombs of celebrities only survive because fans or family renew the lease every 10 years. Though for "sainted" bishops etc. that fan group might be the church itself.
Initial buyin for a grave is thirty years, that's how long decomposition takes and the soil being ready for another body. After that you can choose to keep the gravesite or stop payment.
@@winterchild6120 Probably only ten years after cremation - at least it's a shorter period of time.
Are you sure about the 30 years? I seem to remember I paid for 20 years when my mom died.
40 seconds in, and you get a like on your video just for having enough humour to wear that t-shirt and have "like for Odin" on your board behind you.... WELL DONE 👍👍👍
There are still alot of observant christians in Denmark, but they mostly keep to themselves and with most of them you wouldnt even know, unless you asked.
remember member doesn't mean practicing.Despite the high membership figures, only 3% of the population regularly attend Sunday services and only 19% of Danes consider religion to be an important part of their life.
It is wrong to assume that the Church of Denmark is state sponsored just because it is a state church. According to our constitutions art. 68 no citizen is obliged to contribute to any other church than his own. Therefore members of the Church of Denmark pay a tax called "kirkeskat" and those who are not members do not pay this tax. The revenue covers all the expenses the Church. The exact wording of art. 68 is "Ingen er pligtig at yde personlige bidrag til nogen anden gudsdyrkelse end den, som er hans egen."
Semantics
Being a Christian I only go to church for baptisms, weddings and funerals. So a lot of danes are Christians but rarely goes to church
You are definitely very right about Danes opting in due to tradition. Of all the people I know, I can think of only one person who actually goes to church regularly, the rest pretty much just goes when they are invited to baptisms, confirmations, weddings and funerals, and maybe Christmas, if it fits into the schedule. And honestly I find that a bit silly, so personally I opted out when I became an adult, even though I'm both baptised and confirmed. I mean they aren't checking your membership card, if you are invited to a wedding or something like that. And honestly I don't buy the whole "preserving the culture" thing, we have more than 2000 churches in tiny Denmark, we could probably easily cut that in half without losing anything of significant historic value.
Interesting, and good points. Some friends we have talked to said the same or that they only remained a member in case they met someone who wanted a church wedding or to have their kids baptized and confirmed.
@@RobeTrotting As far as I know, most churches in Denmark will still do that, as long of one the people involved is a member, although it might be up to the individual priest to decide if they want to or not. The only real issue is they will probably not give you a funeral ceremony.
As a life-long church goer in the USA i think the first reason you mentioned for joining a religion is wayyyyy off. I.e. Very few affiliated with our church looking for any kind of material help. as i continued to listen...i wondered if you were just saying stuff off-the-cuff, or if you did research?
wow realy educative for a dane too. thanks guys
"And whatever Tom Cruise does"
LMAO. Spot on guys.
hehe 😜
@@RobeTrotting Even though Scientology's european headquarters is located in Copenhagen, it isn't recognized as a religion here but a cult. I've considered to go picket and demonstrate against them outside their offices a bunch of times.
They prey on the weak-minded and the vulnerable people. I ain't got no time or patience for cults like that. No matter how many movie stars they can attract into the fold they are nothing but a brainwashing cult and a money scheme, meant to extract money from insecure people looking for meaning in life.
We had our own cult here in Denmark called "Orgasmens Madonna's Kirke" (The church of Madonna's Orgasm). It was a weird sexcult and eventually moved to Sweden instead. Rituals included drinking the juices from a woman's vagina. I'm all for people experimenting with sexual desires but to form a bogus religion around it is a bit more than I feel is necessary.
It's not necessarily that people opt-in themselves in Denmark as your parents can opt-in for you when you're a child and many simply forget or can't be bothered to opt-out when they turn 18.
Did you know that ?
Gutzon Borglum, the creator of the famous Mount Rushmore National Memorial, was the son of a Danish immigrant.
His full name John Gutzon de la Mothe Borglum may sound a bit Spanish or French, but it could not be further from the truth. In fact, the name Borglum originates from the Børglum Abbey and monastery, originally a royal farm which dated back as far as year 1000, if not earlier... and the name Mothe originate from Niels Sørensen Moth, who was a monk at the Børglum monastery at the time of the reformation.
Monks were not allowed to get married and have children, but the Børglum monastery was dissolved when Denmark became officially Lutheran on 30 October 1536 and it became a royal property once again and so Niels Sørensen Moth then quit being a monk and became the first priest of Børglum Abbey and so he also got married and had two sons who also became priests, but they changed their last names to Børglum when they moved away from the Børglum monastery and parish, where they both lie buried.
So if not for the Church reformation in 1536 in Denmark, leading to Niels Sørensen Moths change from being a monk to a lutheran priest, there would not have been a Gutzon Borglum and then also no Mount Rushmore National Memorial.
@@hannehansen7214 .. No, I do not think he was blind.
I don't mind the 1% tax if I'll just be treated with respect after I'm gone.
But it'd be quite wrong to call me a believer. On the other hand I have nothing against believers.
Peace be upon those whose life orbits around believing. I respect it and would not give you trouble because of it .. it's just not my own cup of tea. Leave it at that unless you really want a challenge...
If you challenge my disbelief I'll tear your beliief apart while you watch. But until then, we can be the best of friends.
That's basically the Danish perspective on religion.. we're mostly ok, but don't challenge us.
We’ve always been of them same mindset, which is one more reason that we really love it here.
@@RobeTrotting whoa, you reply fast... Beautiful people stay yourself, you are amazing.
Isn't it 5%?
Anyways not a member and payed it...
@@GarmrsBarking the church tax is 0,7%
Spot on ! Most of us are born into the Church of Denmark. Personally I'm not a follower. I'm an atheist and probably support the sign behind you more 😀 , than organized religion. I still pay taxes to the Church ! Mostly for what you said.., tradition 😊 ! And I'm to lazy to leave (because you actually can and thereby avoid the Church tax 🙄 )! The tax is really low ! At the same time. I'm a member of a christian Scout organization (FDF). Not for the religion, but for giving kids some good experiences ! And in my troop, religion is not really a thing, it's just based on christian values. Not saying that the Danish Scout Corps (DDS), is not, they are !
It’s nice to have tradition and maintain the history, but we fall close to you - agnostic and leaning atheist or maybe Odin is more our speed 😊🇩🇰
@@RobeTrotting 4 of my coworkers are practicing "Asa" (Nordic viking religion). In the weekends they live the life. Personally I think it's a protest against organized religion, more than believing in Odin and Valhalla, because "Asa" is more free spirited and open minded, then most organized religions. With Danes attitude toward religion, its amusing that "The Church of Scientology" has it's European HQ in CPH, but not taxed exempt, since DK doesn't consider Scientology an actual religion.
@@KurtFrederiksen OK! Your right! But as soon as your parents baptized you, your automatically a member. If your parents are members, and choose to have you baptized, aren't you basically born into the church?
@@KurtFrederiksen Yeah! As I wrote ! If your parents choose to baptize you, your a member. At a later state, you can choose to get out. I don't get the argument here! We both basically agree!
I've only just started this video, and already I've "liked" for Odin 😍
😊
@@RobeTrotting I didn't know that the church was state sponsored in Denmark... that's quite strange to me (even though I come from a country whose head of state is the head of the church, the church and state are separate, as they are in the USA). Thanks for another interesting and informative video.
My biggest ever taxcut came when I left "folkekirken". I dawned on me, that I payed for a membership to a club I never visited, and actually didnt really agree with.
That “taxcut” is gonna hit you in the ass when your wanna get married, your kids wants to get conformation, cristening, baptisms, funerals, ect.
@@kruse8888 got married at city hall. My kids Arent baptised, and when I am dead, ill be dead, and wont care. I might even just donate my body to science
I live in Lyngby and I'm new here, I'd love to meet you guys!
We would like to try planning some kind of social event so hopefully soon we will do that and post it 😊
I'm atheist, but i'm too lazy to opt out of the church taxes.
I tell myself that i like our old churches, and want to help maintain them, but in all honesty, it's laziness. If i had to opt in to the tax i never would.
To all those in the comments, who claim, the Danish church is opt-out:
NO, it is not. U are not automatically a member of the church, u only become a member, if u are baptised in the church. Meaning, if u have to opt-out now, its coz ur parents made the choice for u and had u baptised. If they had instead registered ur name at the local registrars office, as required by law, there would be no church membership, no need to opt-out once ur an adult.
I think I'm a rather average Dane. On paper I am a Protestant Christian. I never opted-in on church taxes, because I was automatically made a member of the church when I was baptized as a baby, and then I automatically started paying church tax when I started paying taxes.
I don't really go to church regularly, and when I do it is not because of religious causes, but because of events happening, such as weddings, babtization, confirmations and funerals.
I have considered a few times of opting-out, but then I'd not have access to servives, and when I die, my family would not get financial support for the funeral. In the end it is easier to just pay the bit through the taxes, something which I never really notice in my day to day life.
as an I guess outspoken atheist in Denmark I still pay my church tax. not because I want my children baptised etc. but simply because it is my way to help the church maintain it's many historic buildings. but beyond that religion in general is a very personal thing in Denmark. where I see religion in USA as a way to promote your self either for or against a certain set of values. And yes I know it is quite stereotypic and I know it is probably much more complex but atm I don't need more complexity. we all try to avoid complexity where we don't have a need for it :)
A few commentaries:
1) You become a member of folkekirken when you are baptised. Your parents can of course choose not to have you baptised…
2) The state is NOT the main financer of folkekirken. As a member of folkekirken you pay church tax averaging a little under 1% of your income. This is the main source of income for the church. The state pays 2/3 of priest salaries as they are also civil servants with several administrative functions. Church services are of course open and free for all people, but as a member the church will host your marriage service(s) and funeral service free of charge. The church owns most of the graveyards; as a member, that is as a co-financer, you rent your plot at a sizeable discount…
A few things more:
1) you can of course opt out as you please.
2) Every parish is run by an elected body called menighedsråd open to all parish members. The menighedsråd is the de jure employer of all employees other than the priests. Still the menighedsråd selects its priests - the bishop must sanction the priest though.
I was baptized as a baby but it was mostly to have an excuse for gathering the whole family and celebrating. I am sure many other families feel the same way.
Being a member of the church means the priest is there to help when a family member passes away and the funeral service in the beautiful churches mean a lot to many people. If the deceased weren't a member they would be allowed to use the chapel instead (not the church) which is really not the same.
I met som priests with horrible, old fashioned wiews so I opted out
Being a member do not mean that you are a believe or religious.
Having a stat church is what keeps religion out of politics. Our priests have public servants and do not need to make their church into a business. Unlike in the US where religion is a huge one.
Religion is a business in the US? Explain?
@@jimmybaldbird3853 In Denmark the priests get paid a wage by the state. And the money to pay other wages, maintain the church and so on come in automatically.
In the US he need the people going to the church to donate money so he can get a wage. That make it very comparable to a business.
And if you can get your "flock" agitated over some issue (like gay marriage, Transpeople or abortion) and you can tell them that you will work to help solve the issue... then even better, they will pay you more.
The result is that the different churches are effectively competing for members... again comparable to any other entertainment business.
The result is that religion is a billion $ business in the US... with plenty of "priests" who have gotten are very very rich on donations.
@@thomasbaagaard this is completely incorrect. First of all, the US does not have only one Christian sect like lutheran Denmark. What you described is only partially true for small small independent churches. Otherwise, they are paid through a governing body. There is no “agitation.” People willingly donate a dollar or two-far less than compulsory tax of the danish church tax. One could argue they “agitate” in DK with fears of no place of burial, not being able to be married in the church, etcetera. All in all though, it is clear you dont know anything about Christianity in the US. You seem to think it is all one giant Alabama baptist church from a movie.
Donations to a church are not mandatory, and most people who work in churches are volunteers.
@@jimmybaldbird3853 USA protestant/catholic?
I know quite a few Americans who are very religious without being member of any church, but they do believe in God, say grace before each meal, believe in the effect of prayers and so on, while a lot of Danish members of Folkekirken is atheists or agnostics.
Yeah, it’s an interesting paradox
@@RobeTrotting Maybe the question should be: "How much does religion mean to you in your daily life?" In North Carolina 85 % said that religion meant a lot to them, and in my favorite part of USA, the westen part of the state, the number was even higher. My guess is that if you ask the same question in Denmark, less than 10 % will answer that religion means a lot to them in their daily life. Maybe a bit higher if you include immigrants and refugees from Islamic countries.
i would like to add that you forgot to mention 'evangelisk frikirke danmark' and 'baptistkirken' here in denmark.
the church minister also has and obligations to overlook
recognized religious communities in Denmark
I don't wan't to spoil your always interesting videos, but you said something about "in god we trust" maybee is from the cold war. I'm sitting here with a dollar from 1923, and it says "in god we trust" . Hmm, how do we (and I mean we) explain that? 🙂
Well based on what we researched - it was added to all currency and adopted as a motto in 1955 during the Cold War era BUT it first appeared on coins and eventually paper bills off and on starting at the onset of the Civil War. So that it's be on and off prior to 1955 - and now it's ON by law. It's also the time when the pledge of allegiance was amended to include "under God" etc.
No - Denmark does not have a state church - It is not the church of Denmark - its the church of the Danish people and as such is supported by the Danish state. It ceased to be a state church when the first constitution was enacted Yes the creators of the constitution messed up and just stated that the church should have be governed by its own law which the parliament then have failed to agree on since. Note that the minister of the church regulates all religious communities in Denmark and not just the peoples church but for some reason the politicians so far have felt free to abuse their power to discriminate against the Danish Peoples Church.
Also note that to most Danes religion is a very private thing - more private than their sexual preference.
My name is zahidan shah from Pakistan I want chrstian religion I like Christianity how i accept chrstian religion
The danish church is not really an opt-in, but more of an opt-out. Most people are born into the church and will actively have to sign out to not pay the taxes. But as you said, most people just pay since its part of the tradition here. And traditions are more important for most, than religion, I think :)
Yeah, misspoke there 🤦♂️
its automatic when you are born in denmark that you are a member of folkeikirken and have to manually change yourself, it has nothing to do with religion
I don’t think that many danes think about, what it really means to get baptized. To most danes, it means naming the child, spending time with family and friends, ‘’hygge’’ and something good to eat. My sister made a choice not to baptize her son, she had him ‘’navngivet’’, given a name only. She said, he can make his own choice, when/if he wants to be confirmed. If he wanted to be confirmed, he had to be baptized first. He chose to be baptized and confirmed 15 years later. He truly believes in God, he didn’t even want a big confirmation, only his very close family. We were 12 guests. Some danes begin to go to church as they grow old and I have seen in hospice, that fatally sick people start to believe in God.
It’s both and it’s also both in some parts of America. There’s also Americans going to church every Sunday but are afraid of getting shunned by the community.
As a Dane, I was born "Christian" and as soon as I start making an erning, I would pay the church tax (annual a good weekend for two, good pay) there for I never refuse the tax, I could have done it in two minutes, even though I don't " believe" I still paid the tax
Oh my god (!!!) I enjoy your both cute faces, with good cheer written large all over them - you can really compete with the famous Danish charm, so may some god bless you, and help you keep it up. And sure it also is very deserving that you delve into facts and take nothing at face value. Thanks for food for thought again.
You're worth warching twice:
"whatever Tom Cruice does" 😱🤣
5:50 hearing this and seeing the "like for Odin" seems a bit of double standards :D
I am a Danish citizen and member of our state church. I am not very religious, and it has been more than a year since I have been to a church service.
I pay my church tax, which funds the national church here. This tax funds our state church, but it is completely voluntary. I could avoid this tax simply by no longer being a member of the church. That would be saving me more than DKK 10.000 per year, but I do not want to do that.
The church tax is not compelled, but voluntary. Even if you do not pay the church tax churches are open for you. You can attend services if you want to, and priests are usually open to help you with existential problems if you come to them. Here priests are hired to do services, but due to our religion everybody who needs help gets it - even if they are not a member of the church. Due to the voluntary church tax there is no commercial motive. The only motive is to help.
Priests here do not have to help anybody, or do weddings or funerals for anybody who are not a member. But they do so anyway, if they believe it can help.
A clear example was when my father died: He was a declared atheist, not a church member, and said he did not care what happened after he died. Me and the rest of my family wanted a funeral with a service, and the local priest agreed although he could have said no. He told me they had talked on several occasions, and although they did not agree on religion, he believed my late father was a good person. So he thought it was only right to do a funeral for him, even though he was not a church member. He also went a bit against our initial wishes by insisting the funeral being held in a chapel instead of a church, saying this would be closer to what he thought my father wanted, and we were happy with that.
We do, at most, not praising a deity by name but rather tn an awareness of something fundamentally bigger.
Folkekirke is financed by it's members rather than by the government. It can tax its members piggybacking on the tax system. 12% of church funding comes from the government budget.
Only about 20% in Denmark believe in god, but approx. 80% have trust in each other. In the usa it is the opposite: 80% believe in god and 20% trust each other.
Danes are also a very proud people and have a very strong belief in the Danish values.
More than half of Danes go to church only on Christmas Eve, except for baptism, confirmation, wedding and funeral.
By the way, we are Lutherans with quite a bit of Viking tradition and faith mixed in.
Today, the churches are part of the cultural heritage that the Palaces and the Danish Property Agency "Slots og Ejendomsstyrelsen" maintains
Where do you get these numbers from?
Being a part of the church is unfortunately not an active choice, but an active opt-out. We’re indeed not very religious, people just doesn’t get to leave the church - they forget. Even though they’re paying ~ 1 % taxes (0,98). I left in january, and I already love it.
Why be a part of the church when you don’t believe in God? Luckily, the ‘hidden’ atheistic percentage is much higher than the official ‘non-member’ 26 %.
It makes sense that that’s the reason behind the high numbers - 1% is a lot (we need to check we aren’t opted in actually 🤔
@@RobeTrotting You can see it on your paycheck. If you’re opted out it should be 38 % before ‘topskat’. Otherwise 39 + topskat. Not counted ‘AM’ in of course.
@@KurtFrederiksen Why? It's the same thing, the parents opt-in way of saying is just abit more deceitful and scammy :)
Either way, all of this is becoming much more apparant.. The fact that nonfirmations aren't looked down upon anymore helps a great deal, how cool is it that we give our teens the ability to choose, rather than force it upon them(Telling a teen that you only get a party and presents if you get baptized is essentially forcing them).
@@Vradica Ur missing the point. Nonfirmation aside, if the teens parents had their child baptised, the child is already opted-in to the church regardless of confirmation or not. The choice is made by the parents, when they choose to either baptise the child, which registers the childs name AND opts-in church membership or choose to register the childs name at the municipality, which only registers the childs name, and the child can then decide itself later.
Kurt's point is, that there is no automatic registration as a church member. Every1 are saying, ur automatically in and have to choose to opt-out, and as Kurt says, that is false. Ur parents made u a member of the church, when they chose to have u baptised in the church instead of registering u at the municipality. Thats why ppl have to opt-out later, thanks to their parents, NOT due to the mythical automatic membership.
There was a really shitty segment on "Godaften Danmark" a while back, with a guy paying fines coz he hadnt registered his childs name yet, which u have to do within a certain time, 3 month if I remember correctly. He falsely claimed, that he had to pay fines, coz he refused to register his child as a church member. The journalists completely failed to push back on his false claims and also failed in explained, how it actually works. The only correct thing, the guy said, was, that registering his childs name in the church aka getting his child baptised, would make the child a member of the church, which he as an atheist refused.
I get that, Im an atheist myself. But he was still full of shit. There was no need to pay fines or whine on tv in front of failed journalist not doing their job. All, he had to do, was register his childs name at the municipality, and all would be fine. The law would be complied with, the child registered, and no membership of the church required at all.
The only reason that I pay church tax is that it will be so much easier for my children to get me in the ground when I am dead
I’ve heard a lot of people with similar reasoning for those main events - wedding, funeral, kids church events and that’s all.
Lots of people seem to think that the majority of church members are just 'culturally Christian ". Maybe. But how do you know the actual belief of others? Dan Denne, a philosopher who had thought hard on religion, thinks that maybe this is the future of religion. Not so much a matter of scriptural beliefs, more a matter of cultural communities. I think that would be a good thing.
Why didn't you guys comment on the fact that gays can be married in "the state church" in Denmark?
You can do the same in American Lutheran churches so it doesn’t seem that noteworthy, even though it’s a great thing overall.
I am always puzzled when I hear about the segregation of state in church in the US. You do mention how Americans often mention God casually, but there is still the fact that religion seems so deeply rooted in the laws, or at least the amendments. Of course the most recent example being the subject of abortion where the biggest arguments against the access to abortion where found in the Bible. That would never ever happen in Denmark.
I'm a member of the Danish State Church... Which is hilarious to me as an atheist. I am literally to lazy and unconcerned about it to go to the website and login to write myself out of it.
I wish you would have made clear that for all intents and purposes, we DO have a separation between church and state since our 1849 constitution. Yes, the church is subsidized by the state, through a tax, but you can opt out of paying it. That's not common for a tax in its traditional conception. Further, that 74% number is misleading, because Danes don't actually opt-in to Folkekirken, their parents are obligated to opt them in at birth, and then they can later decide to opt-out. Which is something most Danes aren't aware you can do.
The operation of the churches is also not something the state really cares about. Sure, it regulates and sets boundaries for the church, but the boundaries are the same for all religious institutions here. To say we don't have a separation of church and state in Denmark is akin to saying we aren't a republic or a democracy, but rather a monarchy, simply because we have a queen. Much like with our queen, the fact that Folkekirken is part of the state, is much more of a formality, than a reality. It would be much more accurate to say Folkekirken is owned by the *people* and in the danish context that very much means the state gets to take part in that ownership, since it represents them directly.
Like others have said, it's much more of a culural and national thing, than a religious bond. You'll find a lot of Danes who aren't religious still call themselves "cultural christians", and what they mean is in a national sense. A lot of our songs and traditions have ties back to christianity. Like the tradition of the queen ending all her new year's speeches with "GUD BEVARE DANMARK". That's absolutely iconic, and something every Dane, religious or not, wants to preserve in the culture.
@@KurtFrederiksen For the unions, unemployment benefit used to be a membership service, but the government has spent about 50 years taking control of the system and enforcing ever tighter restrictions on coverage and administration.
One tricky thing here is that the church is run by politicians that we all vote for. Not just the Christians. Most politicians that are not Christians keep a low profile on church matters. But if the majority is ever non-christian, the system will need reform. Likely in the form of some more autonomy for the church (a synode).
@@mvoetmann1 good point, never thought of that.
@@KurtFrederiksen My sole point is, that if I am ever elected to parliament and suggest that all priest should wear red clown noses and big clown feet when preaching, and a majority of non -Christians support the idea, the church may not feel too happy about it.
The promise paragraph in the constitution is really not a good basis for any argument, since it has never been fulfilled. We have never had a church constitution given by law, as required by the constitution. Instead we have a strange hodge-podge of edicts from the ministry on some matters, and bishops making decisions on other matters. I don't claim to understand it. But as long as the church is satisfied with it, I don't much care either.
USA is not a secular state. It is a non-confessional state, which means that the government leaves room for all confessions (originally only Christian denominations). Denmark is actually a secular state even though we have a state church. The state - as well as most politicians - never base any laws on religious grounds or church confessions, although they usually respect the inner workings of the church and leaves those to the church itself (more or less).
Folkekirken (actually written "folkekirken") funds itself, although those funds are gained through taxation of the members. The clergy is most civil servants and so the state pays 40% of their wages, while folkekirken pays the rest.
About 15% of the Danish people church is paid by the tax payer but that is to keep the buildings intact you choose if you pay to the church or not (apart from what the state gives to upkeep of the buildings) its a part of the Danish grundlov (/"constitution")
Tom Cruise is not doing religion, he is doing Scientology,
In Denmark you're automatically joining the church when born, meaning that 26% actively opted out.
Most of our churches are from the 1200 century, part of culture, and very high maintenance, so if we want to preserve them, it's better done this way, although, i would personally prefer to seperate the church from the state, but the horror scenario is that we might end up with the same as USA.
Danes don't opt into the Danish church. You're automatically a member from birth. The latest survey from TV2 about religion, is from TV2 and a newspaper in 2017. The links are in the Danish Wikipedia page, regarding religion in Denmark.
According to the survey, less than half the Danes are religious, and according to several surveys, one being about religion in Denmark, only between 8-15% "attend church service" 'often'. This is vastly different from the US.
Many of the religious Danes, believe in a deity of some kind, but not by default the one from the bible.
If you choose to opt out of the Danish church, you will "save" the (I think) 2% tax, but the government then just charges the tax for other purpose. So you don't save anything. You will also have a harder time being married in a church, or even being buried. So most people leave it "as is". Many, as some other mentioned in this comment section, don't mind supporting the Danish churches, even though they are atheists. For historic reasons etc.
"like for Odin" ;-) Good old Grundtvig. Actually, its Thor not Odin. Freedom for Loke as well as for Thor. Grundtvig is key for understanding christianity in Denmark. Heres an other one "Human first, christian then"
I really liked the 10 reasons not to move to DK.
This video you have one fundamental fact incorrect. The church tax is not opt in, it is in fact opt out and my reason to say so is, because almost everyone is born into the religion, so when you had no choice to getting it, it becomes a topic of opt out option.
God weekend 🍻
No, ur wrong. The church membership/tax is NOT opt-out, it is indeed opt-in. Ur problem is, that ur parents chose membership for u, when they had u baptised. If they instead registered ur name at the local registrars office, u would not be a church member and not pay church tax.
Im truly astonished at how many ppl in these comment do not understand that simple fact. Ur parents chose for u, they opted in on ur behalf, there is NO automatic membership.
Without religion, there would be no rules to break, how boring.
Well said 😊
It’s not a State religion in any sence.
And it’s not state funded.
It’s a State Church, and the members pays most of the church costs.
Membership is a tax - payed only by members but automatically along with all other taxed.
Church tax is 1 - 1,5 % = 8,7 billion kr in 2018.
The state pays additional 830 million = 10% of the church tax
But the state pa
Sadly, in practice, the US does not have separation of church and state. They teach creationism in some public schools and most senate/congress decisions and even the supreme court are based on religion and not data, information, science.
I consider my church tax as more of a "museum" tax.
There is around 20-25% religious danes today. Everyone is automatically part of the danish church so that doesn't represent the number of christians.
Sure I’m a member of the church, but thats only because I’m baptized, and didn’t bother to *”cancel my membership”* but are as far from religious in any way or form 😉
Exactly haha, the numbers aren’t the real numbers so to speak 😊🇩🇰
anything you will try explaining to me about god, will simply be a no thanks, have a nice day though
One thing I do find a bit puzzling though.
Despite America having separated church and state, WHY do you guys always have to include God in eg. getting sworn in as President, when you're a witness in court ect. putting your hand on a bible.
Yes, I know you can opt to NOT add the "so help me God" for being sworn in as President, but none in the last century has gone for the "affirmation" instead of the "oath" (affirmation = not ending it with the "so help me God").
Not THAT separated after all.... ;)
US presidents don’t have to swear on the bible. John Quincy Adams chose to swear on a book of law for example
@@daedala70 true.. But let me direct you to what I wrote.... "in the last century"
Quincy was president almost 200 years ago (1825-1829)
I was responding to your statement” WHY do you guys always have to include god etc.” They don’t have to.
@@daedala70 Yet they still chose to.
And I did write that I'm aware that they can "opt out" (affirmation vs oath example), but none in "recent history" has "opted out" (and I'd say that the past century is going back long enough to perhaps even not being "recent history" any more if you ask the younger generations....)
Religion in Sweden is more complex. Secularity is a cornerstone in Swedish society. We don’t show out religion, it we have one, in public, it is private. And most people are not “religious” but at least in it because of traditions. Baptism is something that is cultural.
We have smaller religious denominations and faiths. In the past they were not allowed because the Church of Sweden held a monopoly being a state church.
The Church of Sweden was made “independent” from the State in year 2000. Cementing the secular values. There are still laws regulating it though, but parliamentary politics don’t affect it. By law it is the national church of Sweden. They can also collect the church fee from members as it still were a tax.
Every citizen pays a funeral tax regardless of membership in any religioua organization.
The Church of Sweden is in fact politicized democratic institution. Church parties candidate to the Church Council. Some parties are actually affiliated with the political parties that represent the people in the parliament. So getting elected to the council a part of the political game since that influences the work of the Church around the world - affect what people think of Sweden.
The State does give financial support to any religious organization.
Same in turkiye
You don't really opt in to the starte church.. Rather you opt out... If your parents are members when you are born... You are automatically a member which don't really matter until you start making money and paying taxes... On top of the normal tax you Pay an extra 5% in church tax... You can always opt out and don't Pay that extra 5% but it's a bit of a hassle so most People don't bother...
I was 13 when my family signed us out so luckily i never paid church tax...
Skatten er Ca 0,87% over det meste af landet. Du bliver ikke medlem fordi dine forældre er det, men fordi du bliver døbt
@@rb6808 det må være noget noget "nyt" (er 77'er) for jeg ikke blevet døbte og måtte melde mig ud da jeg var Ca 13... Det med skatten har du sikkert ret i... Som sagte har jeg aldrig skulle betale den eller også er den faldet siden 90'erne...
I'm danish and an atheist, but I pay my church tax. Some need a religion, and don't mind helping.
ROFL.........You got my like😂
You do not have to pay church taxes to have your children confirmed. And actually, you do not have to be a member of the church to be godfather/godmother of a child at a baptism. However you have to be baptised to be confirmed and confirmed to be godfather/godmother.
Sorry but you have a blind spot when it comes to what is perceived as religious. All the examples you mention and shrug of as not being important. Would be considered weird and ultra religious if done by a Dane in Denmark (slighty exaggerated for effect) Also having religious groups protesting abortion, tv-shows, movies, magazines, song lyrics etc. again weird and ultra religious and just wouldn’t happen in Denmark. Hence the perception of the US as being religious, it’s just so far removed from Danish society.
Don’t you think much of the censorship you see in the US when it comes to music, tv and music has its roots firmly planted in religious organizations? Again we don’t have that to the same extend in Denmark. Take a show like “John Dillermand”, imagine the outcry if shown nationwide in the US.
Maybe you just need to come to terms with the fact, that even though you don’t perceive your nation as particularly religious, nations where religion plays a smaller part certainly does.
I too was a member of the danish church, until i found out about that 0,8 % tax....😂
Equality for Loki as for Thor. Folkekirken is regulated by law and supported (financed) by the state. If you are a member of another religious community, you finance that church yourself. It is funny that those who sign out of the folkekirken to save money from the churchtax forget that they can go back 3 years for a private person (5 years for a municipality/state) in the tax account and get this 3 years of tax money back, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha........ Spare på 2 Øren og lade Daleren rulle. Kærlig hilsen Jan
Regarding hardcore Christians Denmark might not be that high on the list.. but... I think spirituality is high in Denmark.. a belief in there being more between heaven and earth than we might be able to explain.. but the same time danes dont really deny there being a god.. or even deny Tor and Odin..
Christianity might not be Up in your face here in Denmark, but there are Christian ties or roots everywhere around us.. both from the state religion, but also from the Many free-churces (like the pentacostal church).
Charity shops, scouts, organisations, private schools, efterskoler ect.
Faith, belief and spirituality is just a more private matter in Denmark.
Personally i have dual church membership, the state church and a free church.. the same time I dont shy back from wearing both a cross or Tors hammer around my neck as a pendant in a chain.. its personal for me.. but again probably more about spirituality than hardcore up-in-your-face christianity 🙂
The biggest thing here is that the Danish church is opt-out and not in. I've been paying taxes, being a member of a club I don't believe in for over 20 years before actually realising that I shouldn't. Tradition doesn't validate upkeep,necessarily. Also I have a hard time believing that the average Dane would thank "a higher being" of any sort for what they have accomplished.
No, the church is not opt-out. There is no automatic membership. Ur parents chose for u, they opted-in for u, when they had u baptised. If they had instead registered ur name at the local registars office, as required by law, u would not be a church member and could urself decide to opt-in or stay out, when u turned 18. But until ur 18, ur parents get to chose for u, and they chose to make u a member, thats why u as a adult have to opt-out, NOT due to some kind of forced membership.
@@dfuher968 Yes. My parents chose. I didn't . Forced. Same as circumcision, but not as violent.
Take my Like for Odin!
Germany has a church tax-if you state you are a church member you pay the tax-I think I have this correct
I only like this video because it says like for Odin behind you
We’ll take it haha
So do you guys believe in god? Im personally a member of baptised and konfimeret, which means im technically Christian but do not believe in religion or god what so ever
Good question. Neither of us is religious and I guess teeter between agnostic and atheist most of the time. Mike grew up Catholic and Derek grew up lutheran but neither of us have been to church in years besides weddings.
Danes are NOT!!!! born into Folkekirken!
But the majority of Danish parents decide to baptize their children, which is how you become a member. The church is taking care of registering people as a tradition, not because we become members at birth. For centuries the church has taken care of that, and for some reason (probably money) it hasn't been moved to Borgerservice.
The average member of Folkekirken uses it for baptism, confirmation, weddings and funerals. And if you ask people if they believe in god, you often get the answer "Jeg tror på at der er et-eller-andet/I believe there's something". God is not important to the average Dane.
Love from a Danish atheist, who has never been a member.
We pretty much laid out what you explained really well and even better 😊🇩🇰 it’s only if you don’t dig beneath the surface of the statistics that you realize the reality of religion (and the difference between tradition and religiosity). Thanks for watching Camilla 🙌🏼
@@RobeTrotting, thank you for making the videoes. It's always entertaining.
We all need to be careful with numbers/ statistics 🙂