The Real Story of Yip Man, Part One | The Kung Fu Genius Podcast #76

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  • Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
  • Alright peeps, on this 76th episode of the Kung Fu Genius Podcast, the KFG (aka Alex Richter) will not be answering all sorts of hot nonsense from RUclips! Lots of gems, lots of Yip Man’s disappointing forms, lots of “I don’t care if you speak fluent Cantonese, Yip Man will not teach you Kung Fu!” Let’s get to it!
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Комментарии • 123

  • @garycpriestley
    @garycpriestley Год назад +9

    I don't find enough time to listen to your episodes but by god, when I do, I can't switch them off. Really great story-telling and wonderful to hear about some of this history.

  • @mattbugg4568
    @mattbugg4568 23 дня назад +1

    Keep training some day it will make since. I trained in a school that had a gigantic yin yang on the wall.

  • @talentbong7446
    @talentbong7446 Месяц назад +1

    Nice informative video with lots of logical historical details.
    "YOU ARE WAVING YOUR HANDS WRONG !!!" is probably one of those things that I think is a lot more common than expected.
    Then again, I suspected that "You are doing it wrong" replies will always occur since everyone has different levels of comprehension and would judge others based on their personal ideal of what is most accurately representing it in their minds.

  • @TheKungFuKitty
    @TheKungFuKitty Год назад +4

    Any time I hear the name Leung Bik I just picture Yip Chun from that damn movie 😭😭😭

  • @robertos4978
    @robertos4978 Год назад +9

    QUESTION FOR THE PODCAST: Hi Sifu Alex, Your Podcast on "The Real Story of Yip Man" was one of your best ever. Congratulations! I am wondering if you ever read the book "Ip Man: Portrait of a Kung Fu Master" by Ip Ching and Ron Heimberger and what you thought of their approach and information. Keep up the great work!

  • @redfirekla
    @redfirekla Год назад +10

    Perfect timing in about 5 hours will be done with work, enjoying these podcasts 👌 suberp quality content 👍

    • @jdaywork2693
      @jdaywork2693 Год назад +1

      Thought - what if Sifu Alex co-authored a book about Grandmaster Yip Man with Matt Polly?

    • @redfirekla
      @redfirekla Год назад

      @@jdaywork2693 that would be great I think Alex is a well spoken sifu where that would be a dope documentary. The guy has been in Hong Kong 🇭🇰 and has literally met the people tied with the roots of Yip Man and Wing Chun.

  • @WholeCosmos
    @WholeCosmos Год назад +1

    Yip Man was like Luke Skywalker his Si Fu passed away before his training was complete........but eventually mastered the force i mean Wing Chun. LOL

  • @JKDVIPER
    @JKDVIPER Год назад +1

    “Spit Shined it huh?” Lol😂✅nice one. It’s true.

  • @JKDVIPER
    @JKDVIPER Год назад +1

    52:34 “He stole em” lol 😂💥

  • @WholeCosmos
    @WholeCosmos Год назад +1

    My Grandfather was Kuomintang and fled to HK with my Grandmother from Foshan. My mom was Born in HK in 1948. In 1966 My whole family Moved to Ca USA. Hong Kong has become SEVERAL completely different universes since the 40s and 50s.

  • @sc-mh8hy
    @sc-mh8hy Год назад +4

    Tested positive for the virus "of unknown origin'' on my holiday in Spain but luckily there is KFG. Can't wait 👍

  • @genebrohan2401
    @genebrohan2401 Год назад +1

    Jesse glover was amazing

  • @benlawson3851
    @benlawson3851 Год назад +1

    Thanks Guys! Really interesting episode, can't wait for the rest!

  • @jasonkeaton5140
    @jasonkeaton5140 5 дней назад +1

    How did wing chun build its reputation as a fierce fighting style?
    Was it the roof top matches?

  • @ruiseartalcorn
    @ruiseartalcorn Год назад +1

    Very interesting! Many thanks :)

  • @evets1968
    @evets1968 Год назад +1

    This is so golden.Thanks, KFG!

  • @Lonescout8585
    @Lonescout8585 Год назад +1

    Fascinating episode. Cannot wait to see the next installment.

  • @threetreasurekungfu3003
    @threetreasurekungfu3003 Год назад +1

    The western kid that approached Yip Man for lessons is really Beardy.
    The reason for Dreison’s hypothetical questions is to assess you to join the Time Agency, go back in time and stop Beardy from having lessons.
    This would break the Space Time Continuum and destroy the all existence.

  • @sifukiinnis1432
    @sifukiinnis1432 Год назад +1

    Great episode! Looking forward to part two.

  • @sardalamit
    @sardalamit Год назад +2

    Another great episode! Looking forward to the rest of Yip Man's story..of course I am assuming by the time you read this all the other episodes must be done and ready for upload!
    A request: comparison b/w the different types of WC schools- Leung Ting version v/s what changes you have made and why v/s the german way v/s Red Boat WC v/s .....others.

  • @davidreynolds2126
    @davidreynolds2126 Год назад +1

    I’m looking forward to part 2 😁

  • @kelvendyson1508
    @kelvendyson1508 Год назад +2

    Awesome episode Alex!! I think a true episode on Yip Man needs to be told!! You should do it Bro!!

  • @eddietours3728
    @eddietours3728 Год назад +1

    interesting story aboit the hair cut

  • @asianactioncinema4687
    @asianactioncinema4687 Год назад +1

    Excellent episode, informative and very interesting, many thanks and keep up the good work.

  • @Moodymongul
    @Moodymongul 7 месяцев назад +1

    great and informative show guys.
    16:10 - What scares me, is that our generation may see even bigger changes than Ip Man did (in his lifetime). The Technological age has not been around long (Historically). Technology is actually still speeding up. The 'Technological singularity', in some ways, is already here.
    Ip Man saw the Ox+Cart to the summer of love / tv age. We, might see from the human age to the AI computer age! Which, isn't probably gonna be 'fun' for us ;)

  • @JKDVIPER
    @JKDVIPER Год назад +1

    1:16 I do the CHUM KIU MINI so I don’t accidentally chop my wife as she sits next to me while I watch the show. 😂🤛lol I do all short cute movements it’s hilarious!!!

  • @sullyb23511
    @sullyb23511 9 месяцев назад +1

    I hope that British kid found another sifu who would teach him. That is horribly sad.😢

  • @NNamesis
    @NNamesis Год назад +1

    Hi there. Just watched your video. I'm a Ving Tsun practitioner from Malaysia. I'm so blessed that I got to learned from Sifu David Peterson because he moved to Malaysia. He is one of the student of Wong Shun Leung, who has the right to teached. Our "family" is called Ving Tsun because Sigung Wong decided to changed it since back in the 60s Wing Chun was ridiculed as toilet Gung Fu. Because of the initials was WC.
    Sifu David has loads of stories about Bruce Lee and of course from his Sifu Wong Shun Leung.
    It's just my two cents here. Cheers

    • @TheKungFuGenius
      @TheKungFuGenius  Год назад

      Sifu David Peterson is a dear friend! He reviewed two of my books and has been on my channel twice!

  • @JimSmith-nb4tx
    @JimSmith-nb4tx Год назад +1

    LOL I've been to Oktoberfest in Munich! 1-4 INF in Hohenfels Germany.......They sure know how to party there! Bruce Willow....great youtube show....does interviews with martial artist.....great show.

  • @Lakeside_WeightLoss
    @Lakeside_WeightLoss Год назад +1

    Did Yip Man learn the technique “snake snatches the fedora in washroom” from Leung Bik???

  • @TOMMYBOY6969
    @TOMMYBOY6969 Год назад +1

    Nice vid. Your next vid should be what Yip Man learned from ( Die Duck Lan ) market. Sorry for the spelling , i have no idea how to spell this market in English.

    • @TheKungFuGenius
      @TheKungFuGenius  Год назад +1

      You need to watch this video again if you think the Dai Dak Lan story is real.

  • @CinematicTendency
    @CinematicTendency Год назад +1

    Bruce Willow is great and funny as well.

  • @evets1968
    @evets1968 Год назад +1

    I dig your "maybe" facts, as far as you know.Commendable podcast.

  • @chrisbach1533
    @chrisbach1533 Год назад +1

    Hi Sifu Alex, before i forget it again and again, i am using this comment section since its your newest video. You did mention some times Sato from The Karate Kid saga. Since the Cobra Kai show is so big on Netflix and in September Season 5 will come out, what do you think about Cobra Kai? Do you like it? What s your opinion why it has so much success? Do you want to talk about it in some podcast in the future? I have to admit i am a huge fan! First in 2018 i thought it was a kind of parody for Johnny Lawrence and Daniel LaRusso, but after Season 1 came out i realized how great it was. The three writers who are all about your age, they are born 1977 and 1978, Hayden Schlossberg, Josh Heald and Jon Hurwitz did an absolute amazing job! So many things like Star Wars were destroyed by todays writers, look what Disney did to Star Wars. Unfortunately i dont expect very much from the next Indy Jones movie, even if Harrison Ford comes back as Indy, but i have a bad feeling it will turn into some femenistic stuff.
    The Cobra Kai writers did the opposide, they were able to bring the old fans from the old characters back, but also created some new characters which are good for young fans. To me it was great to see Billy Zabka as Johnny again, and Ralph Macchio as Daniel, Martin Kove as John Kreese, and of course Thomas Ian Griffith as Terry Silver, and Yoji Fujimoto as Chozen. From the young cast there are great talents. Peyton List as Tory Nichols. If you ask me Peyton could be the new Scarlett Johannson or Margot Robbie. Tanner Buchanan as Johnnys son Robby Keens rules too, he reminds me a bit on Leo di Caprio or the late River Phoenix. But also Jacob Bertrand as Hawk is a bad ass, like Gianne DeCenzo as the awkward Demetri, the guy has a great comedian talent. Mary Mouser as Daniels daughter Samantha is also great. They are all born between 1996 and 2001 so still young. Do you like the show too?

  • @JoelEZ1
    @JoelEZ1 Год назад +1

    😳
    Thanks Sifu Alex!

    • @JoelEZ1
      @JoelEZ1 Год назад +1

      Barry Genovese, lol

  • @dwuonw6438
    @dwuonw6438 Год назад +1

    Another great job guys, question, what is the difference between the Gulao style and Yip man Lineage? And do they have the same forms? Keep up the great work and stay safe

  • @gornallbell5459
    @gornallbell5459 Год назад +1

    Great episode and can't wait until the follow up! One quick pointer, it couldn't have been a Pakistani police officer that Yip Man got into a fight with as there was no Pakistan until partition after the end of colonial rule in 1947, surprised TBG didn't mention it!

    • @TheKungFuGenius
      @TheKungFuGenius  Год назад

      Thanks for the info, lots of the early history of the grandmaster is very sketchy at best.

  • @masternajafi
    @masternajafi Год назад +1

    Sifu Alex loving your informative podcasts.
    I was into shaolin all my life, but 2020 covid pandemic gave me the time to come into Wing Chun.
    Please do a separate podcast on William Cheung only, and another on Duncan Leung please please please ❤

    • @TheKungFuGenius
      @TheKungFuGenius  Год назад

      Thank you for your great comment, I’m glad you are enjoying the podcast. I am not from either of those two lineages so I am not the most qualified to discuss them.

  • @slod.3712
    @slod.3712 Год назад +1

    KFG and Team thanks for the insightful podcast episode. I wanted to ask you to eloborate if you can a bit on Yuen Kay San and his role and involvment in Wing Chun in general and the Yip Man Lineage in specific. Have read statements that many of the well known stories of Yip Mans adventures and deeds were actually mashed up or blurred versions from the past of Yuen Kay San. What can you tell us about this Wing Chun in particular and the differences to Yip Man Wing Chun from HK?

  • @tenholindberg9862
    @tenholindberg9862 Год назад +1

    This ep gonna rock....
    Btw i newer havent heard you talk about, yip mans broblem with opium addiction.
    If you havent tackle the issue yet, hope that you do sometime In future.
    Also wasnt chan wah sun also an owner of opium den? Glad you talk a little bit about Weng chung. Bcoz i haven heard too much about it. Do you think that it was chu chu man from Weng lineage, that had something to do with Leung Bik legend? Intresting This is completely new to me.
    Thanks for superb episode.
    God bless.

  • @JKDVIPER
    @JKDVIPER Год назад +1

    Oh slap.. caught one

  • @EvanTateMusic
    @EvanTateMusic Год назад +1

    Are you familiar with Bruce Lee's Ung Moon Form? What are your thoughts on it?

  • @MrDravenLee
    @MrDravenLee Год назад +1

    Hello Sifu Alex! What do you think of Master Wong's Wing Chun channel?

  • @colreef
    @colreef Год назад +2

    This one has potential! No doubt some hot non sense and a few myths dispelled...maybe?

  • @JKDVIPER
    @JKDVIPER Год назад +1

    1:05:53 I love how you and Leung Ting do the forms the way IPMAN and WONG SHEUNG LEUNG did em.. n then people change em.. n tell you you’re wrong? That’s weird to me..😳

  • @jdaywork2693
    @jdaywork2693 Год назад +1

    Thought - what if Sifu Alex co-authored a book about Grandmaster Yip Man with Matt Polly?
    The Ming dynasty got the stigmata of being Jiang Shi (hopping zombies/vampires) right?

  • @wingchunman
    @wingchunman Год назад +1

    I think u missed the part when Yip Man was a student in Japan. I forgot if it was before or after Hong Kong. He was studying in Japan, got into fights again and he was kicked out of Japan.

    • @TheKungFuGenius
      @TheKungFuGenius  Год назад +3

      I did miss that, don’t worry I’ll take down the video

  • @miguelc.819
    @miguelc.819 Год назад +2

    Great episode, more please. So, Sifu Alex, do you believe Leung Bik actually existed and taught the young Yip Man ?

    • @Lolitocat
      @Lolitocat 11 месяцев назад +1

      Leung Bik was the second son of Leung Jan and learned the complete Wing Chun system from his father. His lineage is still alive in China but they are very secretive. It is a fairly extensive system with many ancestral forms, others created by his father and others by his, with a variety of exercises, Chi Kung, medicine, Kuen Kuit, etc. I don't know whether he taught Yip Man, I believe more what his disciple Moy Yat wrote in stone, who studied Wing Chun with a disciple of Leung Jan called Fung Wah.

  • @AndreBeaulee
    @AndreBeaulee Год назад +1

    QUESTION FOR THE PODCAST : guys loving the podcast lots of great knowledge and info, i just wanted to ask as a avid martial artist and hong kong cinema lover and model. and a white guy that wants to visit hong kong. what would be your top thing to do and see in hong kong, would it be worth going to see the place. and what are some funny stories that has happened to you and your friends in hong kong.

  • @NaturalStateWingChun
    @NaturalStateWingChun Год назад +2

    This deserves more views!

  • @Ed7501
    @Ed7501 Год назад +1

    Interdasting podcast. I'd love an episode on Cheung Lai Chun, the Pak Mei sifu who brought Pak Mei (White Eyebrow) to Hong Kong. So basically he's the Yip Man of Pak Mei Kung Fu. But of course, that's not Wing Chun, so I don't expect you to know of his story. Would be cooooool though 😎

    • @TheKungFuGenius
      @TheKungFuGenius  Год назад

      Thanks for the suggestion, but I know nothing about this gentleman.

  • @ericrecano8557
    @ericrecano8557 Год назад +11

    KFG always delivers…in the age of meathead roided out MMA people that think Martial arts is all about ‘HOW WOUlD YOU DO IN THE CAGe’ - KFG covers what an old school martial artist want to know-

    • @TheKungFuGenius
      @TheKungFuGenius  Год назад +1

      Thank you!

    • @chesleyoverstreet498
      @chesleyoverstreet498 Год назад +1

      So Bruce Lee used testosterone and other performance enhancers at the time. He actually used all kinds of drugs. And he was on a quest to know what actually worked on the streets (the cage). Sounds like he is the godfather of MMA. Sounds like you just have a problem with jacked alpha males. Now I know MMA came around and shattered alot of dreams and legends but that's just progression.

    • @ericrecano8557
      @ericrecano8557 Год назад

      I loved MMA especially during its inception and the early 2000’s-and practice Boxing, and Muay Thai-the problem isn’t with jacked alpha males baca use I body build as well-what I have a problem with is every time a martial artist that predates UFC 1 is discussed wether it he Bruce Lee or traditional martial artist -there always has to be some guy saying ‘yeah he never fought in the octagon’ as if that is the ONLY reason for someone to practice martial arts….that’s what I have a problem with-
      My favorite combat athletes happen to be Rickson, Sakuraba, Frank Shamrock, GSP, Anderson Silva, genii Sudo, Rimini Sato, Hayato Sakurai, Wanderlei Silva, Renzo Gracie, and of course Royce
      Would some of these guys be competitive with todays athletes? Maybe not-but if you don’t know the roots of where you came from that’s ignorance.
      Mans if you follow KFG’s podcast on Bruce Lee and steroids there is NO concrete evidence he ever used steroid because it wasn’t available to him…supplements yes-TRT? Never proven.

    • @ericrecano8557
      @ericrecano8557 Год назад +1

      Oh among those mma athletes I forgot to mention Bas Rutten-he’s the man :)

    • @chesleyoverstreet498
      @chesleyoverstreet498 Год назад

      @@ericrecano8557 exogenous testosterone has been around in sports and games since I think the 1930's. So it was available in the 50's and 60's. People used to say he wasn't a dopehead until the letters came out. It was just rumor. And on your list of martial artists three of them have been busted for performance enhancers. Fighting has come so much further than Kung Fu or karate. Things get better over time even if we like it or not. Mike Tyson would knock out Marciano. Khabib would mollywop Bruce Lee. It's just an uncomfortable fact. Maybe you don't like UFC fans or the spectacle of prize fighting. But the athletes now are just better. And MMA has helped us all realize that some old traditional techniques are BS.

  • @silverseto1158
    @silverseto1158 Год назад +1

    I don't believe the single braid was a Han Chinese thing either, previous dynasties for men was probably something along the lines of a top knot.

  • @1888swordsman
    @1888swordsman Год назад +1

    I hope you go into the details of who and where is Ip Man's third son and did he also learn Wing Chun

  • @chrismcdaniel475
    @chrismcdaniel475 Год назад +2

    Why did Lawrence Kenshin do a video saying Wing Chun don't work?!

    • @TheKungFuGenius
      @TheKungFuGenius  Год назад +7

      If I knew who Lawrence was I might care, but even if I did know who he was I still probably wouldn’t care.

    • @redfirekla
      @redfirekla Год назад

      @@TheKungFuGenius ha very well said... Lawrence should just be allowed to say Wing Chun doesn't work for himself... and that's it.

    • @vagabondgrappler8434
      @vagabondgrappler8434 Год назад

      Because he's a moron.

    • @Garrett316
      @Garrett316 Год назад

      @@TheKungFuGenius Lawrence Kenshin is a RUclipsr and Author of books on Martial Arts. He does great breakdowns on fights like ‘The Weasle’.
      Back on Christmas, he made a video on Bruce Lee and if he believes he could fight. He gave positives and negatives on what he saw from Bruce. It was a good video, but he didn’t know some details about Bruce that kinda takes a little bit of his points he’s making away. Still worth a watch.

  • @ftan59
    @ftan59 8 месяцев назад +1

    Was the policeman a Pakistani? It'd be impossible because Pakistan became a nation in 1947, by which time Ip Man would have been 54.
    Thought that you might want to correct this. Thanks for the very informative and entertaining show.

  • @ehrenthompson7891
    @ehrenthompson7891 Год назад +1

    They nit pick in Karate too.

  • @evets1968
    @evets1968 Год назад +1

    Same date as HG.Cool.Bruce and Jimi Hendrix share the same birthdate...

    • @Ed7501
      @Ed7501 Год назад

      and aren't they both buried in Seattle?

  • @TheFiestyhick
    @TheFiestyhick Год назад +1

    Random odd question from a nerd of linguistics, since you say Yip Man was originally from mainland China, does that mean he spoke fluent Mandarin?
    (I know that parts of southern China speak Cantonese and other local languages besides Mandarin)

    • @TheKungFuGenius
      @TheKungFuGenius  Год назад +1

      He was from Fatshan (Foshan) which is a major city in the Canton or Guangdong province. Cantonese is spoken there. Mandarin became the official language, but this did not mean that people from the south spoke it. It is possible that he may have spoken Mandarin, but I have never heard any evidence to substantiate that. His Cantonese was heavily accented to his region as well.

    • @TheFiestyhick
      @TheFiestyhick Год назад +1

      @@TheKungFuGenius Awesome and detailed response. I appreciate it. It all makes sense..... Yeah, in that era, I know most people from that region didn't speak fluent Mandarin, so I get it. Just a weird question from a linguistics nerd....lol
      Thanks

  • @dannydevito4899
    @dannydevito4899 Год назад +1

    Hi did you ever meet wong shun leung

  • @erbylopez6003
    @erbylopez6003 Год назад +1

    I suspect I may imagine what your answer is to the following question but for the sake of discussion I'll ask it anyway: For an outsider looking in on WT are all the differences between lineages discernible at all? Should this even be something that someone interested in starting WT be concerned about (ignoring the fact that there is no such thing as a WT street in every city lined with WT schools from every lineage).

  • @_Pauper_
    @_Pauper_ Год назад +1

    Love all the de-mystification.

  • @ryosaeba5541
    @ryosaeba5541 Год назад +1

    QUESTION FOR THE PODCAST: Hey Kung Fu Genius gang, I got a question for you, what is your opinion in all those self´claimed Kung Fu champions of the world from federation such as IWUF and similar? Are they legit champions or just a bunch of posers with fake world titles?

  • @chrisbach1533
    @chrisbach1533 Год назад +1

    Very well done! This man was the real master of Bruce Lee, and not Jack Dempsey what even some Jeet Kune Do people claim today. Honestly in the 90s and 00s nobody was much talking about Lee's love for Boxing and how much it influenced him, even Mrs. L. Lee Cadwell never mentioned it in her books, and i am not a fan of her. In my humble opinion today too many people exegerate this Boxing thing a bit. Sure Lee liked and respected Ali, Dempsey etc., but those people werent his teachers.
    And a question Sifu Alex: You know Sifu Yip's full birth name was actually in cantonese Yip Kai-man, and in mandarin Ye Jiwen. So his first name consisted of two syllables, Kai/Ji and Man/Wen. Do you know why he romoved one of the two syllables (Kai/Ji) and is only known as Yip Man or Ye Wen? Was there a reason for?

    • @TheKungFuGenius
      @TheKungFuGenius  Год назад +2

      Thank you! The late Yip Man would not have used the Mandarin spelling or pronunciation of his name, as he most likely did not even speak a lick of the Mandarin dialect. He most likely removed his third a.k.a. “middle“ name once he went to Hong Kong to further obscure his identity as he was a little bit nervous about mainland Chinese coming to Hong Kong and tracking him

    • @chrisbach1533
      @chrisbach1533 Год назад

      Thx for your reply! Yes i agree in both points, he wouldnt use the namdarin spelling of his name. And yes you are most probably correct, he most likely removed one syllable because he feared ppl from mainland would maybe track him down, so it was a good and unerstandable move. Maybe Bruce Lee would have done a similar thing if he was in the same situation, changing Lei Jun-fan to Lei Fan, or his brother Robert from Lei Jun-fai to Lei Fai.

  • @JKDVIPER
    @JKDVIPER Год назад +1

    Hey sifu Alex I had a question. Have you seen or do you know of an ODIE ORIELLY here in RUclips? I’ve seen Bruce Lee on it like everyday, n I was it’s curious if it’s cool to support him or not. If he does funny stuff I’m all set. Na mean 🤛😎

    • @TheKungFuGenius
      @TheKungFuGenius  Год назад +1

      I think that dude is legit

    • @JKDVIPER
      @JKDVIPER Год назад

      @@TheKungFuGenius ok. Good lookin out

  • @kevnev007
    @kevnev007 Год назад +2

    Very very interesting, I can not wait for part 2 of the Yip Man story.

  • @junfan9748
    @junfan9748 7 месяцев назад +1

    Interesting podcast. Some neat material in the first half. Would have been better if he told his story and what he heard without presenting his opinion as some sort of fact towards the end. He got a lot of stuff wrong about teachers and forms and presentation and proliferating this backwards mentality is not going to be helpful for people that practice.

    • @TheKungFuGenius
      @TheKungFuGenius  7 месяцев назад +1

      Examples?

    • @junfan9748
      @junfan9748 7 месяцев назад

      @@TheKungFuGenius The podcast was really neat and entertaining. Want to reiterate that. However the part about personal experiences with other teachers and forms didn't land right for me. Some teachers will ask to see your form and tear you down for sure. Some will ask to see and say nothing until you leave then complain to their own students about how awful it was. These things happen. However not everyone will do this. Some people just want to see the form. Most of the Hong Kong lineages can be identified by their forms alone and any old guy whos been doing it for decades will know the persons lineage without even asking just by watching their first form. So in my opinion it's not always malicious to ask. Sometimes it's quite it's quite benign to ask to see the form.