Это видео недоступно.
Сожалеем об этом.
Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm Auto vs .44 Mag.
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 13 апр 2022
- We settle the debate about which pistol cartridge is best when faced by a charging grizzly-and wreck our hands in the process. With this simple but challenging drill we can evaluate the speed and accuracy of the 10mm vs. .44 mag. Read the full story here: www.outdoorlife.com/guns/10mm...
Video filmed and edited by Tanner Denton.
So sick of people comparing a 44 to a 10mm... A 44 is well above 1000ft lbs, heavier, bigger diameter bullet, going faster and hands down more reliable. A lot of semi autos have realiability issues with above full house loads. So this test using unknown to us 180gr ammo (probably range ammo) with a red dot and extra weight up front from your lights and comparing it to a super lightweight 44 mag with full house loads that you probably haven't shot in 2 years is not a good comparison and is just setting you up for failure imo.
Talking down the 44 because they can't put 10 rounds on target in under 3 seconds is a joke.
Reality is that you are lucky to get even 1 round on a bear and that's why a 44 is still king for bear defense.
But at the end of the day everyone has their opinions, right or wrong. But at least you have a gun with you and that's what's more important I suppose.
You are so correct, in my opinion. I comment all the time when this subject comes up. The revolver is 99.9% reliable. Even in crappy weather and mucky conditions one might encounter. A semi auto always has that small chance of malfunction. PLUS, everyone wants to use a hammerless semi-auto, which i detest. In a 5 second situation to get off one maybe two shots, you run the risk of shooting yourself drawing it in a panic situation. Not the case with a double action. Ruger Redhawk. 44 magnum is what I carry. If I were to carry a semi-auto. It would be like a Model-96 Beretta carried half-cocked. Had one of those years ago. Fine, reliable weapon.
This is an interesting drill. All 3 guys wanted the 10mm to win. I would like to see a more skilled big bore revolver guy try the drill with a steel frame 44 mag. I bet the times would be a lot closer to the 10mm. The 44 mag still has the best bear defense record of any revolver/pistol when it comes to documented bear defense incidents. I think the 10mm and 44 mag are both good for bear defense. I prefer the 44.
When building your kit for the back country it’s paramount to take weight into consideration. Big heavy wheel guns that are a bit easier to manage but still much slower than the semi-autos are too burdensome to pack when the plan is backpack hunting. I’ll take my 10 with a light and red dot 100% of the time.
I feel like we are comparing apples to pears… semi autos with optics vs. the lightest .44 ever made. Now if we were comparing irons to irons and using something like an S&W M69 for instance, I could maybe get behind you. Also a reliable wheel gun like an M69 is going to be less likely to malfunction. Just my $0.02
Not really a fair comparison. All the 10 mm handguns had red dot sights and the open sight very light revolver was shot with loads that were full power and not comparable to the levels of the 10 mm. Sure the 10 mm has more shots per magazine, but if the revolver had a red dot sight and loads of similar power to the semi-autos, I would think that hits would have been more common, more consistent, and comparable to the 10 mms.
If you're going to title this "bear defense" then you need to use appropriate ammo which in 10mm would be 200 or 220 grain hardcast from Underwood or Buffalo Bore. And I would think that you could find similar ammo for .44 mag without going with the barn burner 290 grain loads in order to get better recovery with the .44mag and still have better power than the 10mm.
Nevertheless, 10mm has better recovery under almost any circumstances so you have more chances of hitting a charging target.
"IF" you have time to get off more rounds which there are only 2 chances of, slim and none.
Should have done an iron sight comparison.
So yeah you need to hit it, but you also need a round that will do more than just piss it off. I have a 44Mag Super Red Hawk Alaskan. If it isn’t enough I’m screwed anyway. However, when camping in Bear country I am never too far from my 44mag Henry. If you can grab a rifle over any hand gun you are much better off.
Thanks guys. Guns Gear and outdoors Alaska
had a cool charging bear drill video that’s worth a look.
In my opinion, I would carry the 329 PD if you gave it to me. 44 mag needs a heavy steel gun. The 10 still would have won for speed with a 629, but you can certainly shoot a 44 faster and much more comfortably when you don't chop almost 20 ounces of weight off of the gun. Sure It's heavier but I have never had a problem carrying a 44 with a good belt or chest holster. I've even been looking into craft holsters IWB holster for my 629 5" classic. Yes, you can call me crazy for wanting to carry it lol.
In summary.: Three (seemingly) autoloader fans compared cushy shooting, less powerful, red dot optic-equipped autoloaders to the lightest, hardest to shoot/control 6-shot .44 Magnum revolver available to determine which was easiest to shoot effectively......
Do you think a heavier, easier to control.44 revolver (or even .357) would fare better in this comparison? I'm not trolling you. Genuinely curious what you think.
@@Ridingrules10000 To a point, yes.
However, if heft, speed, and comfort are the the focus, the comfy, red dot polymer guns are going to "win" by that criteria no matter what .44 Mag revolver you compare them to.
Put a live, 1000 lb animal out there, and see which caliber drops it quicker ....10mm or .44 Mag, each with their best loadings, and each bullet placed in the body, in the same areas for each caliber.
(I know that we can't pull off this test, but doing so would likely lead a LOT of people to a different conclusion that "tests" and "comparisons" that involve paper, cardboard, steel plates, and feelings about comfort and speed.)
Some people prefer a lighter hammer, easier to swing fast, easier to correct if their swing is off....with a more comfortable, more modern ergonomic handle design.
Some of us came up using a bigger, more basic hammer and prefer it. Less swings necessary to drive the nail...which to my mind is an important factor, seeing as how emergencies don't always allow one the time to take full advantage of magazine capacity.
If you HAVE to drive the nail in less than 6 swings or get torn to pieces, you want the bigger hammer or the lighter, more comfy hammer?
In ANY fight, I'm not counting on having the time for shots 7-15 AND zero visits from the Malfunction Fairy to save me..
@@plowboysghost , there's no replacement for displacement. The analogy works here as well as it does in engines. However, given the nature of being attacked by a wild animal, there is likely a compromise between having enough power to do the job and having the ability to take more shots. If you only get one or two shots off, you MUST be on target. If you get 6 or 8 shots off, your odds are better. In other words, if both rounds will penetrate the target, then wouldn't shot placement be the primary factor in success?
@@Ridingrules10000 When being attacked, period, there's no guarantee of time to get off more shots/take more swings.
I prefer the bigger hammer.
@@plowboysghost, and if the first swing misses the nail?
when the gun is jam .u wont ve time to fix it so i prefer always revolver
Revolvers can lock up
@@carloscarlos7044 Which happens about .0🙄0000001% of the time
@@carloscarlos7044 How rarely vs jamming autos?
...and then a guy shows up with a 41 magnum and wrecks everything...
That's what I carry Ruger Blackhawk .41 Magnum love it!
Good to see another man with good taste and practical sense.
44 magnum is the right choice
Why would anyone buy a lightweight 44 Magnum revolver. You must be a sucker for punishment. Maybe try again with a heavyweight revolver where the extra weight might help tame some of the insane recoil?
Ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain when backpack hunting. My kit for spring bear in the Sellway Bitterroot wilderness weighed 55lbs. We hiked over 50 miles in four days. That weight included a 7mm rem mag and the S&W 10mm with two 15 rd mags loaded with underwood 220 gr hardcast that I carried in a chest rig under my bino harness.
Why not use the save type sites on both guns. That would make a better comparison.
I used to hunt black bears with a S&W model 29 4’ and/or a Colt anaconda 6”. I used basic 240gr Remington JHP’s. They worked! I took many a bruin with that combo at close range handgun hunts. Then I switched to a Glock 20 with a KKM 6” barrel and 210 lead hardcast bullets from DoubleTap. I have the same 50 round box with 12 rounds gone and six bears taken with that combo. I’ve had the same box of ammo for about 15 years. You just can’t beat 15+1.
I admit I’ve never hunted brown bear and would be afraid with a wheel gun. In fact, I probably would use a 10mm on browns as a back up to one of my big rifles. I inherited my dad’s Winchester bolt gun in 458 WinMag. I’d use that or my lever .45-70 against browns first and foremost. The handgun would be a last ditch back up gun on them big boys.
What do you think your chances are of getting off 15 rounds vs a charging bear? Lol 😄
What about rogue sasquatch or dogman defence?
You need to wake up from that BS dream, lol
@@johnharris8191 Sounds like you're very uninformed.
@@steelhead1214 Quite, thank you, lol
I have 2 glock 20sf..with bear load from montana.
It comes down to what you prefer and what you are comfortable with. Nothing more nothing less.
10 mm is not enough for a Grizzly. Inexperienced people are hung up on having a magazine with 15 bullets. If a grizzly charges, it would be a miracle to get one or two accurate shots. If using a semiautomatic and you misfire or have to clear the jam, your dead. So go with a 44 mag revolver.
Your wrong
@@gordonpelto1069 How is he wrong?
The 10mm is a good option for the reasons you have shown however an all steel md29 ( easier to control than your model) with heavy hard bullets is at a different level ( realize there are more rounds in the auto) of punch and penetration than what a 10mm can deliver. Pro’s and con’s to each but realize as good as the 10 is it is no .44 mag.
Bears are attacking in groups of 5 now?
Bears got vests and ski masks now
The question that is not addressed (neither here, nor in any other RUclips video I watched): How much time does each hit with a .44 magnum or 10mm give you by temporarily stopping the bear/pushing him back?
Probably none, you're either going to stop him with a complete kill or hes going to keep coming
@@TextileGeorge ,
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question.
Think of a angry bear like a crackhead on PCP, they will not notice a hit until they are dead.
@@aaronjjohnson13,
Very good comparison!
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question.
They should ask a bear.
High bore axis hurts revolvers. Chiapa rhino is unique and would likely work well in this test.
.357 sig.
In the interest of science…by three guys who flunked high school biology
Why use a lightweight revolver? The xtra weight would help.
To be honest I love wheel guns. I grew up with them. I don't even practice with mine anymore. It's like practicing with cap and ball. 15 10 mm over 6 44? Not to mention if you had to reload. Now truly the guys should have been shooting heavier rounds made for bear but other videos have shown that the times do not very by much. While the 44 will penetrate further again you get 3 pieces of lead to 1 in the 10 mm. That's 3 wound channels. Personally I actually bought my 10 just for back country gun. I love it. And piece of mind that I can get 15 rounds into a charging animal gives piece of mind.
One of these guys is way more proficient than the others.
well, he is a USPSA GM, so that's not surprising
Would a S&W double action .357 Colt python be effective against a bear?
Pros and cons to both rounds. Recoil is only part of the equation. If you can keep your cool and stay on target while firing at a charging bear then the 44 is best option. If you are splattering the hillside with lead then the more 10 mm rounds in the magazine the better. I have been false charged by a bear and I assure you it will increase the ole heartrate! I was carrying a 9mm and I felt very under equipped!
If you are good with a revolver it would do the trick. On stock ammunition the 44 gives you 970 ft pd. And the 10mm gives you 575 ft. Pd. Of energy. Almost twice the energy so does the mean you only need to shoot half as much. I’ve seen revolver shooters just smoke when it comes to time and accuracy. So yeah the 10 mm would be a easier transition for most shooters especially 45acp shooters. Bottom line practice a lot with what you have and try to be smart in the woods.
I wholeheartedly disagree with that. The mono metal Buffalo bore is better than the hardcast out of the glock. The reason is not from the hardcast in the glock barrel. It’s about the wound channel inside the animal. 👍
👍
John, I used to live in Stevensville and bow hunted the region quite a bit. I always carried a 5.5" Ruger Blackhawk in 45LC. The guys at The Hunting Shack worked up a load for me that was very stout and I carried that once grizzlies started showing up. I ended up selling that pistol to a friend and bought a Glock 20 (Gen 2), added a 6" barrel and red dot and never looked back. I am back on the east coast these days and miss being out there, thought now I feel way over gunned for MD/PA hunting... lol.
Kill the background music!
Where is that man whom bear attack how is he now
This video is full of more flaws than a Pontiac Fiero! It is laughably bad in about every respect. First of all who and I mean who chooses a 329 PD for a back country gun? No one! That is a self defense revolver for shooting people hence the PD nomenclature! It is a gun at 26.3 ounces you would carry 44 Special in maybe 200 gr. Gold Dots going at 875 fps. Furthermore, this would not be safe to be carrying a real bear load which are typically increased power and pressures. I have not seen one review of anyone who enjoyed shooting this revolver ever. it is not hard at all to find pictures of the M329 PD blown apart. A M69 with a 4.25 in. barrel would be the bare minimum being all stainless steel and I still wouldn't trust it with true bear loads.
A real 44 Magnum would be a S&W M29, Ruger Redhawk or a Colt Anaconda with a 4 in. or longer barrel. If you have an 8 3/8 in. S&W 629 Classic wonderful, if you are worried about follow up shots problem solved with the added weight the 44 magnum is much easier to control and the added barrel length and full underlug prevent muzzle flip and ease in regaining sight picture. My personal experiences with the 44 Mag have been a S&W 629 Classic and M29 50th Anniversary both with 6.5 in. barrels weighing in at 49.3 ounces and 48.3 ounces respectively. Clearly much easier to control than the gun used in the video.
Ammo used in your article were the Hornady 10mm 180 gr. 1275 fps from a 5 in. barrel and the 44 Magnum 240 gr. 1350 fps from a 7.5 in. barrel loads. You also mentioned 10mm 180 JHP's from Federal. The only available load in 2022 from Federal in that bullet weight of 180 gr. was the Hydra Shok at 1030 fps, so the FBI Lite load, seriously? Let's look at real Grizzly loads being Federal Solid Core. Standard Federal 44 Mag 240 gr. JHP at 1230 fps / 805 ft lbs energy from a 4 in. barrel. Federal Sold Core is a 300 gr. at 1300 fps / 1126 ft lbs energy from a 4 in. barrel. Increased velocity and much increased bullet weight. Federal 10mm Solid Core is the classic 200gr at 1200 fps / 639 ft. lbs energy from a 5 in. barrel. Energy's main flaw is not taking frontal area hitting the target which gives the 44 magnum another edge.
In your article you mention a grizzly can run up to 35 mph. Actually, it can be up to 40 mph. Either way that is 17.11 yards per second on the low end and 19.56 yards per second on the high end. If a grizzly charges you from 60 yards (pray you be that lucky) that means you have 3.06 to 3.5 seconds to incapacitate the bear! That would include brain realizing a charge is taking place, drawing weapon from holster and aiming before a single round goes off. Which one of you can fire 15 full power 10mm rounds in 3.5 seconds on a moving target accurately? How many rounds can you fire off in that time frame to include reaction time and holster draw? Here we get into the ridiculousness of the capacity argument. You will never be able to fire that many rounds off before the bear kills you. What if you have a jam in your semi auto? What about a misfire? You will be dead before you have time to clear it! What about a misfire in your revolver? You will simply pull the trigger again with no interruption of sight picture, grip or stance. The same cannot be said for a semi auto as all three will be interrupted. Would I carry speed loaders in the back country. You damn right I would, no different than urban carry. With dummy rounds you can practice at home for proficiency and reload very quickly.
On a more comical note bears don't zig zag as they are charging you! They are going straight for you! They also don't charge you in sloths. What was going on with the steel targets is beyond me. If you are going to simulate a charge you put them in one straight line. We have overwhelming evidence from Law Enforcement when faced with a threat if you have the rounds you will use them. This typically involves more rounds fired with less hits and more misses. With revolver shooters they shoot less rounds, have more hits with less misses. In other words revolver shooters make their rounds count! To be clear here the most important shot fired in this scenario will be the first! I want it hitting with as much power and authority as possible.
The 10mm is a great round, but much more suited as an entry level cartridge for medium game. It is a much more appropriate Black bear cartridge than Grizzly or Brown. Dangerous Large Game is typically hunted with a 300 Magnum (take your choice of which one) with a 200 gr. bullet minimum. if you were to seriously handgun hunt Grizzly or Brown you are in 454 Casull, 480 Ruger, 460 & 500 S&W Magnum territory. Even the great 44 Magnum is on the light side for such game.
I noticed that with the 10 mm you guys wasn't shooting in the right order
More,ammo,for,more,bear,all,day
more useless info from professional ammo wasters
😅😅😅
I just talk to the bears calmly and they move off. Pretty sure they could run threw all three of those pistols. That would make a cool challenge if you're man enough.
Very few authorities recommend a gun as defense against aggressive bears. You're much more likely to merely wound it or hurt another person and make the situation worse. Saying this out loud in a gun forum is likely to draw a much different kind of aggressive response. ;-)
I carry a 9mm when i'm bow hunting in case of bears, mainly just something to go BOOM to scare them off in case they charge.
@@mugwump111 That makes sense. There are other ways to make that same noise without carrying a device that can kill or seriously injure yourself or another person, of course.
@@midnighteternalsoul *a device that can save your life from both animal and human threats.
I fixed it for you. I’m not advocating a gun over bear spray or something for bear defense, but having it with you is always a good thing if you aren’t some prissy that doesn’t know how to use it or is too scared of it.
Good, informative video, but the shooting in the background while speaking is pretty distracting.
10mm is a joke compared to. 44 Magnum. End of story.
Use pepper spray for bear defense. It works much better and faster. I used it 2 times. Never needed to go to gun. I still wear my Ruger but havent needed to draw.
Not yet anyway.
I need to know if the 10 mm will drop a full grown polar bear. My cabin is located just a few feet south of the South Pole. My wife was asking me to buy a rocket gun and I had to tell her there was no such thing. I bought her a Glock 20 and one for myself at a really good deal for both. The owner had died due to injuries from a huge brown bear, he was trying to kill the brow with a 3006 rifle to no avail. The brown bear won. I like the 10mm but I’m open minded.
This must be an attempt at a joke, even if being hyperbolical with regards to the few feet from the the South Pole, there are no polar bears in Antarctica. 3/10 for poor execution, but promising setup.
@@zzornischenko I live 150 feet from the south pole, the actual pole. We work for the French government as scientist doing research on ice melt. I can attest to the past American Presidents assessment of climate change, no such thing. The ice is gaining thickness and has reached record amounts of snow and ice. We are ordered back to France on 11/01/2022. We have found no evidence of ice melt. We have encountered several polar bears within 100 feet from our base camp. This worried Ingrid, my wife. She is from the north country of Russia, yet she has never seen or observed any type of bear. I only wish ti would know if a Glock 20 10 mm would stop a polar bear. If not, then we will seek out the next sized caliber gun, handgun preferably. We currently have in our possession 2 Glock 20's and a 22 rifle, but I have been advised a 22 rifle would not likely stop a bear from eating us, this was my only reason for asking about the Glock 10 mm I've purchased from the air peddler, he advised us that the Glock 20 would kill an elephant, but we trust no one down here, they all think money or gold. I'm sorry I offended you.
Watch Chuke's videos of Glocks blowing up using dangerous game loads, jamming and kicking out the magazines.
@@1957rayboconfederatecitizen There are no bears of any kind at the "South Pole" lol
pr໐๓໐Ş๓ 💃