If you use a wire with more filaments per unit area there will be more air ionization points due to the high electric field density at or near the end of each filament as long as the ends of each filament do not contact one another near the tips. This will most likely improve your ion engine thrust. Furthermore, to avoid electrical discharge between component leads on you capacitors you can spread the distance between the wire leads as electric field is measured in volts per meter. If you double the distance betweel two capacitor leads on one capacitor or on any component for that matter, the electric field will be halved an so the less likely there will be loss due to electrical discharge. If you still have discharge between leads then you might either step the voltage with more capacitors or find capacitors that are cylindrically shaped with leads at each end. Really nice demo of ion thrust. I did not realize you could propel an vehicle with ion thrust in atmosphere so quickly.
Love your project! Just a thought to try... if you had a thin non-conductive tube that went from just in front of the Anode breakout to the Cathode, it should entrap all air that gets caught up in the Ion cascade and improve your thrust. Checkout how a small turbine engine inside a large cylinder greatly increases the airflow, and therefore, the thrust, much like the venturi style vacuum that divers use to search through sand for buried treasure. I am confident we will see a much better performance. Wrap your fabric around something and wet it with water based model aircraft tissue dope, then remove the object carefully. That should give you a lightweight, rigid, non-conductive, non-flammable tube. Experiment with size to get the best flow.
try putting the anode in a fan duct and over the inlet of the cathode ,float the cathode in the center of the duct outlet ,The duct should pull outside air( ions that will and increase the flow trapped in the duct) into the vacuum creating more thrust out,,,use a clear or (glass) duct section around the spark gap for the cool factor ,,,,lol enjoy
You did it !! now trap the spark gap in a tube so it stays in a focused area like a jet engine with no moving parts ,,,,,,,more power will just be a Tesla coil that the spark will gap any ground around it ,,,you need to channel the flow of the gap ( trap it in the duct ) one way in one way out ,,,,,,great work !!!! enjoy
Hi ✊ I‘m trying to build this for my 74mm drone. What I didn’t get was the chips to use on the PCB for the plasma. Did you increase the volts or amp? Try combining magnets to the copper pipes (thrusters). Try building it like a catamaran, less water friction. Good luck 🍀
This is a great project! It seems like the water makes for a good low-friction environment to experiment with ion thrusters. What kind of current does it draw during operation? Do you have plans to iterate with multi-stage ion thrusters for a larger scale?
Actually, I found water to be a terrible way to test something using air to push. I built a tiny balsa boat with a bottle rocket on top and the surface tension was so great that it only moved about 8 inches. Water is only a good surface if you get to the speed where your boat begins hydroplaning (skipping on top rather than displacing and/or pushing through like slower watercraft.) The best medium would be to test on a flat surface with a hovercraft style cushion of air, no friction at all!
Hey, if possible encase the engines in plastic to have some insulation on the outside and the receiving end/edge , so that there is 10mm of insulator before the edge, it should direct air flow better and all that follows from it
If you really want to get efficient you can make a bundle of fine wires with half the compacted cross-sectional area of the negative copper tube contact and then take the fine wires with tweezers and separate the tips of each wire from one another by a distance of the diameter of one filament so that you have an dense array of high electric field air polarization points. The finer the wire / wire tip the higher the electric field density and the more efficient air polarzation and in turn thrust. Problems with overloading by current draw on your power supply might occur the more emitter points you have so you might have to monitor current drawn from the supply and components.
Don't let be happen . Make distance between spark gape . If spark between both junction ion thrust doesn't work . Believe me don't let be spark after see thrust for your boat 😉
What would happen if u made the cyclinder nonconductive and put a little conductive sphere or put the same spread cables in it? Would it be performing better or worse?
hey bro, I think the thrust generated is smaller, and if I increase the electrical energy generated it will require a longer distance from the copper pipe, otherwise there will be a fire from the plasma, and the fire from it can burn the surrounding components, is there any other way increasing thrust many times safer? Thank you.
one thing i keep seeing... the only thrust is due to electrostatic repulsion. that is, you can only do work on the air molecules being charged. the air has mass, and you have to do work to accelerate that mass. "neutral" air molecules that happen to be entrained in the flow, get carried along for the ride so to speak, are only DRAG. you do no work on repelling them, changing their momentum, they are accelerated simply by collisions with the molecules you DID perform work on. the air stream you accelerated is slowed down... you may SEE "air moving" but it isnt THRUST. "air entrainment", aka dyson fan (jetoptera?) doesnt work to produce thrust as you dont actually perform any work on that extra air. remember what thrust is. an action, repelling air, that has mass, inertia... a reaction, proportional to the mass acceleration. anyway.. perusing an old physics book and came across an old "cyclotron" design, and im sort of wondering about maybe if such a design can work here? two semi cylindrical cavities, a central electrode, an axial magnetic field, and the two cavities are alternately excited... sort of thinking.. what if you added a rotary movement, accelerated the air in a staged duct type thing? ions travel to one cavity from the electrode, get twisted due to charges in magnetic fields. then the charge alternates and they get dragged to the opposite cavity... and so forth until velocity exceeds curl induced by magnetic fields and it ejects from the rim tangentially. more air, ions, keep pumping in from the center, getting charged, and all the air in there is being "worked upon"... in the cyclotron, its acting in a vacuum on a cathode ray with electrons. here, its dealing with ions or charged molecules with more mass and the rotation is also opposite... but would it work? could you synchronise the oscillation with the transit time of the ions? aka airspeed? worth a shot ;) anyway... nice to see one doing something. simply blowing air is NOT thrust! until a reaction is demonstrated like it is here, its doing no WORK. the boat may be low friction but to simply move it takes energy, work, force. step it up a notch, use a load cell and give us reading of FORCE versus POWER CONSUMED. you need to put a bit more effort into layouts for high voltages... no sharp points, adequate spacing.. the copious addition of hotglue does nothing. dont use perfboard... or PVC... if you want to pot things then do it properly with molten wax or oilbaths. it has to be homogenous... those caps may be rated for HV but theyre also useless ceramic types. much better to make your own rolled caps from polethylene.propylene sheet (A4 sheet protectors?) and copper foil... much better pulse ratings, cheaper, and rolled well, just as good as commercial... all conductors are better as flat sheet rather than wire... lots of surface area. use copper tape. can sandwich it between regular scotch tape...
Excellent demonstration man , the low light footage was incredible. Subscribed!
Interesting
This looks so cool
If you use a wire with more filaments per unit area there will be more air ionization points due to the high electric field density at or near the end of each filament as long as the ends of each filament do not contact one another near the tips. This will most likely improve your ion engine thrust. Furthermore, to avoid electrical discharge between component leads on you capacitors you can spread the distance between the wire leads as electric field is measured in volts per meter. If you double the distance betweel two capacitor leads on one capacitor or on any component for that matter, the electric field will be halved an so the less likely there will be loss due to electrical discharge. If you still have discharge between leads then you might either step the voltage with more capacitors or find capacitors that are cylindrically shaped with leads at each end. Really nice demo of ion thrust. I did not realize you could propel an vehicle with ion thrust in atmosphere so quickly.
dANG. I can smell the ozone from this contraption, lol.
excellent work!
Soon ion thrusters will have shock diamonds
Excellent stuff there Sir
Love your project! Just a thought to try... if you had a thin non-conductive tube that went from just in front of the Anode breakout to the Cathode, it should entrap all air that gets caught up in the Ion cascade and improve your thrust. Checkout how a small turbine engine inside a large cylinder greatly increases the airflow, and therefore, the thrust, much like the venturi style vacuum that divers use to search through sand for buried treasure. I am confident we will see a much better performance. Wrap your fabric around something and wet it with water based model aircraft tissue dope, then remove the object carefully. That should give you a lightweight, rigid, non-conductive, non-flammable tube. Experiment with size to get the best flow.
Thank you. I will definitely try something like that
try putting the anode in a fan duct and over the inlet of the cathode ,float the cathode in the center of the duct outlet ,The duct should pull outside air( ions that will and increase the flow trapped in the duct) into the vacuum creating more thrust out,,,use a clear or (glass) duct section around the spark gap for the cool factor ,,,,lol enjoy
You did it !! now trap the spark gap in a tube so it stays in a focused area like a jet engine with no moving parts ,,,,,,,more power will just be a Tesla coil that the spark will gap any ground around it ,,,you need to channel the flow of the gap ( trap it in the duct ) one way in one way out ,,,,,,great work !!!! enjoy
@@rptechlab RUclips plasma channel
Thank you for your comment! What about nested tubes? Carbon fiber?
Good job man ! Keep up the great work
Man change the terminals and you'll get more thrust with low noise (as the electrons travel from negative to positive)
Epic project. So cool
Because his engine is a success... crude but functional...now to look in to engine case design...
Hi ✊ I‘m trying to build this for my 74mm drone. What I didn’t get was the chips to use on the PCB for the plasma. Did you increase the volts or amp?
Try combining magnets to the copper pipes (thrusters).
Try building it like a catamaran, less water friction.
Good luck 🍀
This is a great project! It seems like the water makes for a good low-friction environment to experiment with ion thrusters. What kind of current does it draw during operation? Do you have plans to iterate with multi-stage ion thrusters for a larger scale?
Actually, I found water to be a terrible way to test something using air to push. I built a tiny balsa boat with a bottle rocket on top and the surface tension was so great that it only moved about 8 inches. Water is only a good surface if you get to the speed where your boat begins hydroplaning (skipping on top rather than displacing and/or pushing through like slower watercraft.)
The best medium would be to test on a flat surface with a hovercraft style cushion of air, no friction at all!
Yes I have plans to scale up those engines.
Amazing. Thank you
I think you should use the Lifter design instead as the means of propulsion. They appear to be more powerful.
Nice project broo
I don’t think this could fly in space, a vacuum unless the necessary elements are supplied. An atmosphere. But still a cool project.
Hey, if possible encase the engines in plastic to have some insulation on the outside and the receiving end/edge , so that there is 10mm of insulator before the edge, it should direct air flow better and all that follows from it
Cool
Try putting a Cowaling around the whole engine, shaped like a jet engine cowling. With a narrow exhaust port.
Yes i will try that. Probably in the next video.
If you really want to get efficient you can make a bundle of fine wires with half the compacted cross-sectional area of the negative copper tube contact and then take the fine wires with tweezers and separate the tips of each wire from one another by a distance of the diameter of one filament so that you have an dense array of high electric field air polarization points. The finer the wire / wire tip the higher the electric field density and the more efficient air polarzation and in turn thrust. Problems with overloading by current draw on your power supply might occur the more emitter points you have so you might have to monitor current drawn from the supply and components.
Why do you have plastic gloves on?
What if you put magnets?
Funny idea
If you put a magnet behind the emitter wouldn't it accelerate the ions?
Don't let be happen . Make distance between spark gape . If spark between both junction ion thrust doesn't work . Believe me don't let be spark after see thrust for your boat 😉
I have idea if you want
I think... You like it
How much voltage was the battery and how long it will last per charged? Thanks.
Nice project. But which type of current did you use AC or DC
The power source is DC (battery) but the output from the arc lighter circuit is AC. That AC output goes into the voltage multiplier that outputs DC.
So could this fly something to space?
What would happen if u made the cyclinder nonconductive and put a little conductive sphere or put the same spread cables in it? Would it be performing better or worse?
Yes I had similar thoughts but I will try this out
BASED
hey bro, I think the thrust generated is smaller, and if I increase the electrical energy generated it will require a longer distance from the copper pipe, otherwise there will be a fire from the plasma, and the fire from it can burn the surrounding components, is there any other way increasing thrust many times safer?
Thank you.
а что если опустить эти двигатели в воду. у неё же плотность выше чем у воздух может толкающая сила будет выше?
Is it on sale or can i buy it any chance??
Lol 😂
one thing i keep seeing...
the only thrust is due to electrostatic repulsion.
that is, you can only do work on the air molecules being charged. the air has mass, and you have to do work to accelerate that mass.
"neutral" air molecules that happen to be entrained in the flow, get carried along for the ride so to speak, are only DRAG. you do no work on repelling them, changing their momentum, they are accelerated simply by collisions with the molecules you DID perform work on. the air stream you accelerated is slowed down... you may SEE "air moving" but it isnt THRUST.
"air entrainment", aka dyson fan (jetoptera?) doesnt work to produce thrust as you dont actually perform any work on that extra air.
remember what thrust is. an action, repelling air, that has mass, inertia... a reaction, proportional to the mass acceleration.
anyway.. perusing an old physics book and came across an old "cyclotron" design, and im sort of wondering about maybe if such a design can work here?
two semi cylindrical cavities, a central electrode, an axial magnetic field, and the two cavities are alternately excited...
sort of thinking.. what if you added a rotary movement, accelerated the air in a staged duct type thing? ions travel to one cavity from the electrode, get twisted due to charges in magnetic fields. then the charge alternates and they get dragged to the opposite cavity...
and so forth until velocity exceeds curl induced by magnetic fields and it ejects from the rim tangentially. more air, ions, keep pumping in from the center, getting charged, and all the air in there is being "worked upon"...
in the cyclotron, its acting in a vacuum on a cathode ray with electrons. here, its dealing with ions or charged molecules with more mass and the rotation is also opposite... but would it work? could you synchronise the oscillation with the transit time of the ions? aka airspeed?
worth a shot ;)
anyway... nice to see one doing something. simply blowing air is NOT thrust! until a reaction is demonstrated like it is here, its doing no WORK. the boat may be low friction but to simply move it takes energy, work, force.
step it up a notch, use a load cell and give us reading of FORCE versus POWER CONSUMED.
you need to put a bit more effort into layouts for high voltages... no sharp points, adequate spacing.. the copious addition of hotglue does nothing. dont use perfboard... or PVC... if you want to pot things then do it properly with molten wax or oilbaths. it has to be homogenous...
those caps may be rated for HV but theyre also useless ceramic types. much better to make your own rolled caps from polethylene.propylene sheet (A4 sheet protectors?) and copper foil... much better pulse ratings, cheaper, and rolled well, just as good as commercial...
all conductors are better as flat sheet rather than wire... lots of surface area. use copper tape. can sandwich it between regular scotch tape...
Shawty work
could you have a moveable thruster instead of using two to steer?
Yes but this time i needed power and I didn't want to add extra weight by using a servo. But in the future I think I'm gonna try that
reminds me of podracers
Haven't thought about that but it's true :)
Sir, Components used
Check the parts list in my Ion Engine 2.0 video
U make mistake in your engine. You must make ion jet engine
Plazma eat " o2"and"h2o" vrey disaster techno events
what do you think if we can somehow propel compressed air bombarded with ion, did thrust will be higher?