@@atropineman3541 This video will teach you how to determine the appropriate gear ratios for a loaded touring bike, based on road gradients, your preferred cadence and your power output: ruclips.net/video/ipENw5mjjSg/видео.html
@Paul Plebian Great to hear! Frame size, back pain and numb hands are tricky topics because every body is so different in terms of flexibility, strength & riding style. People normally need to find out for themselves by experimenting, or working with a physio and/or experienced bike fitter. I'll need to check if there are some basic principles that people can apply more broadly, preferably backed with solid research.
I'm not familiar with this. So thank you for informing me about it via this video! Lots'a love, cheers, & Mabuhay, from tropical Philippines! #KeepBiking
@@mrjellow I'm really NOT a fan of Look. I know Hambini has shown that they get their frame tolerances right, but having spent a fair bit of time on 695 and 795 road bikes - their propriety parts suck (if you can find them - they're always out of stock), they require a lot of maintenance (695 stems are a nightmare), the integrated posts are much stiffer than I'd like, and the stem and bars are hilariously flexy. Having worked at a Look dealer for many years, they're plagued with warranty issues too... I would never buy one again.
@@Cyclingabout Appreciate your insight. I'm the first one to lament proprietary parts and in that regard Look does not get a pass from me. However the zed crank with adjustable crank is a cool idea and the aero properties of the 795 is something that has only recently been discovered by other brands. I now ride a 785 huez without any proprietary parts and it is a superb bike. However, I am well aware of the abundance of warranty cases and their lack of support. What kind of defects did you come across if I may ask?
@@mrjellow I honestly cannot remember the specifics of the Look warranty issues - it's been quite a while since I was working in shops. Definitely paint cracks, stem creaks we couldn't solve, and massive wait times on the proprietory bearings and parts. From memory, over 50% of all top-tier Look bikes came back for one issue or another, and we were one of the biggest dealers in Australia. I'm glad to hear you're happy with the 785. No proprietory parts is a win!
Pinion is in production for 9 years now. I bought a bike (MTB) with the first series in 2012. Never had a problem. Its great to see the some standards appearing. Nice video.
That connected to both pedals, and an electric motor, and you've got something really special. An all in one unit. all your gears, in a box, with a motor capable of assisting, or turning a bike into a machine that'll get ya across town, almost twice as fast as a good bicycle.
@@fillfreakin2245 It is an inescapable fact complex vehicles, especially those with electronic componentry, are more prone to breakdowns than straightforward, non-electronic designs. That is why successful Overlanders always choose the latter vehicle. Furthermore, in 1960, the U.S. Navy noted that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complicated; therefore, simplicity should be a key goal in design, and unnecessary complexity should be avoided. The design principle was known as KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).
@@albertdesalvo7273 So, yes keeping it simple can reduce chances of breakdown. That makes sense. But as an industrial electrician, I can tell you firsthand that we often like to replace mechanical components with electronic ones because the provide much greater reliability. Electronics are often much simpler than mechanical equivalents. So it meets KISS principles.
For me it's becoming increasingly interesting to see a middrive motor combined with a gearbox like this, on an MTB chassis - with room for a rear shock and a water bottle. I hope it happens some day.
@@coreygolphenee9633 not where I live on the trials i ride. Dirt bikes are very restricted in where you can ride, where as an MTB you can ride almost everywhere on every trail in my country.
@@TeamCykelhold fair enough in from the US where I watch software engineers drop 15k on a yeti for the top of their Toyota Tacoma its just kinda gross to watch a hobby get taken by rich kids who's parents will buy them anything other than a dirt bike.
@@coreygolphenee9633 Hehe I'm a software engineer myself, just not in the US - funny you mention it :) On the matter of cost, yes bikes are getting ridiculous if you go for yeti or specialized sworks, but there is always cheaper options like commencal or the like. My freeride bike I bought second hand for about 2k USD. Doesn't have to cost 15k or even 5k :)
Absolutely love your videos, currently in omeo having a day off whilst doing the hunt 1000 route. Would love to see a video about you're thoughts of converting an old steel mtb into a touring/bikepacking bike or a 5 to 10 year old aluminium hardtail into a rig more suited for long days in the sadle on a budget.
Thanks a lot, I was just about to start on a custom fat bike (with a Pinion / Rohloff drivetrain) project that will likely take 2 years or more to complete. My big decision WAS Pinion or Rohloff before watching this video. Thank you for doing all that you do, great job.
@@alexmorgan3435 you'll be in love once your done. I've talked to a few people that have done this on other bikes and all have had nothing but good things to say.
Very good channel for everyday biking. Many RUclipsrs refer to road racers or MTBs, but not often enough with "commuter bikes" Obvious points 1: Derailleur system - 'Gear overlaps' ineffability by 1/3 to 1/2 of all gears that are useless (for 2x crankset) Gearbox System - 'Gear steps' are stupid to space evenly across the gear range from "high speed" to "hill" gears, which is unnecessary weight penalty, except for Alfine 8 or Envolio or Sturmey Archer Point 2 - That is why the well established Derailleurs have smaller gear steps at "high speed" and wider gear steps on "hills" Point 3 - How many gears do you actually use in a city? From "standstill" to some "hills" to high speed? ANS: 6 gears at most, unless you ride from rural to city, which uses 9 gears from "small up hill" to "high speed down hill" on tarmac. Point 4 - Use "traffic-light gear" on flat at standstill as a "baseline" for all other gears. This baseline are roughly 1.0x complete crank revolution to 2~2.5x Wheel turns or 1:2 ratio. Point 5 - Gear choice are highly dependent on terrain. Most gearbox in the market "gear steps" and "gear counts" are design towards MTB terrain, not everyday city commuter except for Alfine 8 (lighter bikes sensitive to gear steps) or Envolio or Sturmey Archer (heavier bikes where gear steps are not as important) Point 6 - Finding the right "gear range and step" is not an exact science and it also depends on "Tyre dia and width" Point 7 - Rear cog has a "designed recommended minimal gear tooth", too low and it may damage the gears. Point 8 - Gearbox does NOT mean you could use Carbon belt drive instead of chain drive, it depends if the rear frame has a split or not.
not for trekking where you sometimes go dozens of kilometers against the same resistance (surface, inclination, wind) and have multiple km/h change per gear.
I just want smaller gear steps throughout the WHOLE gear range in a linear range. This way it is easier to maintain cadence, power and speed. Huge jumps which are effectively 3-4T difference in sprocket size from one gear to the next is ridiculous. I found the best set up on a derailleur bike was a rear cassette with only one tooth difference between gears and the use of a triple front chain set to maintain a wide over all range for those gears, but unfortunately the bike industry has ha different ideas and ditched double and triple chain sets in favour of 1x which is a regressive step imho. Anyway derailleurs are all academic for me as I ditched them about 6 years ago moving to Rohloff hubs and I haven't looked back. Good riddance to derailleurs, awful primitive high maintenance transmissions. Gear boxes are far better on so many fronts. I think the Pinion P1.18 with Gates belt drive is still the gearbox to have with it's wide range and relatively small steps between gears.
@@alexmorgan3435 yea i definitely think gearboxes are the future of touring/city bikes :) i just think if you have a derailleur it would be nice to have a smaller gear step range for the uphill gears and wider gear step ranges lower down.
@@alexmorgan3435 Cadence seems to be a really personal thing. I've been mountain biking for decades and I have never been able to tell the difference between any reasonable level of gear steps. I would be perfectly happy on a wide range six speed 1x drivetrain. But I know many friends who are adamant that having a 10t cog makes a huge difference for them.
It looks like gearboxes will pick up significant momentum in the coming years. The trend of building a fixed gearbox into a frame - which is a very realistic possibility when the gearbox manufacturer and the bicycle manufacturer are one and the same - will lead to new oligopolistic practices. There is a danger that these will result to premature (planned) obsolescence and expensive throwaway bicycles. A better route for most I feel would be making gearboxes that can be retrofitted to existing bicycles by adapting the crankset or simply changing the crankset to one that will mate with the gearbox. There might be some weight savings associated with this solutions as the gearbox casing will not have to be an integral part of the frame and thus, the load bearing sections will be reduced.
But that necessarily puts the gearbox very low to the ground, which is not ideal for mountain biking. For road usage, derailleurs are usually superior. So that would leave your solution only useful for road tourers IMO - a very small market segment. Ideally we would have a standard gearbox dimension.
@@szurketaltos2693 No, what I'm suggesting would put the gearbox above the bottom bracket, not below it. It would be clamped to the frame and take power from one of the rings, by using a suitable cog, or through some other arrangement involving perhaps a bespoke crankset.
What's disposable about gearboxes rated for 50-100.000km? Longevity is one of the main goals. If you want a drivetrain that can fit any bike, get a derailleur system. That's why they came about. The same mount for those has been used for decades.
@@seitenryu6844 A crushed/damaged bicycle frame of which it is an integral part. I want a gearbox that can fit any bicycle - I already have plenty of derailleurs - for the same reason you mentioned and a few others.
I can recognize that landscape in almost every angle: You were in Oaxaca City, my hometown!! :D I have always wanted to get the Rohloff's gearbox, as it's compatible with older bicycles, like mine. Mine is so old that still uses the freewheel system (21 shifts). :(
Lovely breakdown, Alee. These gearboxes slowly keep getting better and better. Any rumours on whether Rohloff is investigating a mid-mounted gearhub like this?
I haven't heard anything from Rohloff. But check out the Nuseti Inner Drive System that was showing at Eurobike this year. It's using a planetary crank-based gearbox with 16-gears: www.cyclingabout.com/eurobike-2021-gravel-bikes-bikepacking-bags-new-gearbox/
I have a feeling that gearboxes won't come to the mainstream mountainbike market in a very long time if ever. Simply due to the efficiency and starting price. But I can see gearboxes coming to a good amount of e-mtb cause they are already way more expensive to begin with so the added price won't be as noticeable and thanks to the added power of the electric motor won't the efficiency loss be noticeable either.
I tried my friends Taniwha for a day and it was just incredible. For full suspension bikes I honestly think gearboxes are the future, that Taniwha is just amazing
Love to see another gearbox hit the market! Thanks for your as always excellent explanation. I would like to see your take on the Kindernay geared hub system............. It looks to be an exciting addition to that market. Thanks for sharing.
Rohloff is a really good upgrade for mid drives in my opinion. I put a Rohloff on my GT VERB that has a BBSHD mid drive unit on it after the lower gears were pretty much worn out after about 1500km Im 6"4 and close to 150kg done over 10 000km so far with the rohloff and still going strong. Its been a lot of fun, hopefully its got atleast another 20 000km left in it.
This reminds me of a gearbox for which Shimano filed a patent about a year ago. The inner workings look very similar to me based on some drawings reported by the cycling media back then
Completely different, the Shimano patent uses a chain going over two 'cassettes', it's not a constant gear mesh gearbox like the Effigear and Pinion (and your manual car transmission) are.
What I think the bike industry really needs is a high quality, high gear range gearbox that is considerably cheaper than pinion and Rohloff. The best option i know it's the Shimano alfine 11, but the gear range isn't really enough for mountain terrain.
Great content as always Alee! I look forward to the day when I can afford to leave all derailleurs behind for good. As of last week, all 8 of my families bikes are either 1x or single speed.
Yeah it's a great feeling when you can finally ditch them. A horrid system for every day riding that used to be cheap and nasty but seems to now be an expensive and nasty system as prices for quality derailleurs, cassettes and chainsets are now stupid money. My Rohloff hubs have paid for themselves many times over. The biggest benefit has not been spending dead time cleaning and fettling the bloody things. Good riddance.
@@alexmorgan3435 I want a rohloff so bad, or perhaps a whole pinion bike. I tried a Enviolo hub bike once, it was kinda weird but I'm sure the maintenance free part makes up for the strange operation.
@@johnlesoudeur3653 main difference for me is a shifter. Im better suited with lever shifter from Kindernay and feedback from hydraulic between each gear. Plus you dont need a use whole hand to shift just a thumb. Last think Rolhoff still not naturally supporting a 10/12mm true axle standart.
@@Anonymous-jx8mv Thanks for the information. Do you still have to back off a little under load with the Kindernay? I have heard that the pedals have to rotate around 20 degrees before taking up the gear as well. Any difference with perceived inefficiency?
@@johnlesoudeur3653 absolutly not its the same like rohloff if you ride it. If you shifting to lower gear you just need for split second stop pedal(stop load) and shift than you can instantly pedal. Diference between Rohloff is you can change higher gear under almost full load(not sure how its on E-bike).
interestingly, according to ritzelrechner, the lowest gear of effigear would allow for much steeper comfortable climbs than a pinion (which itself already presents an excellent performance), and not by a small difference - in my case on a 20kg bike+equipment it would be the difference between a max gradient of 13.3% vs 11.5% for the pinion. For this alone, I would very much consider using effigear on a touring bike
I still ride my 1978 team Raleigh Sport with light steel frame and manual shifting and smile every time and yes my specialized carbon collecting dust.Point here is new tech does not mean better not when you got to pay thousands
upshift under load that's the kind of improvements that will slowly make gearboxes a better overall solution. solid an wider hub without freewheel mechanism sounds neat too but probably hard to find
Thanks for the video. Very interesting. Effigear have told me that there are no Gates pulleys that will mount directy to the Mimic but I think I see one in your video at around 2:04 that looks like it does. Do you have any more information on the bike in this image? TIA.
Sigh, makes me remember how I suffered on a single speed Raleigh whose cotter pins kept deforming, so that most of the cycle's life one pedal clunked instantly from vertical of the crank's cycle down to about 4 o'clock with a shin shivering thud. Suffered through 6 miles of that torture every day from 1968 to 1979.
I still can't find a pinion gearbox in the open market unless it is through a oem with a frame/gearbox combo, is nice to see another player in the market hopefully we see things spice up in the gearbox arena
I was a big fan of the previous Effigear, because the input and output were not concentric, which gave suspension designers some flexibility with pivot locations, notably higher main pivots for those square-on hits that mountain bikes are subjected to regularly.
What if you combine this front gearbox with the Shimano alfine rear internal gear box? 😍😎 You have two internal gear box and lots of gears! Thinking about it....
Best gear box was the three speed sturmy archers. Lived In an oil bath. No silly rubbish. They were on utility bicycles that were left outside all the time. Awesome bit of Kit.
I think any MTB manufacturer working on high pivot bikes should consider this. It could offset some of the weight and reduced power of current drivetrains/high pivots. It'll probably still be less power efficient, but then that's already a compromise high pivot bikes are making.
I've been waiting 10 years for rear derailers to go extinct and gearboxes to go mainstream in the mountain bike industry. Looks like we have a while more to go. But I like that the mounting bracket in the frame is becoming defacto-standard. That will help. Someone should sell CNC'd light weight brackets that bolt into the frame where a gearbox goes, but has just a regular BB mount in it. This would let you sell the same frame as a gearbox or derailer bike. That could help manufacturers slowly switch to gearboxes without as much risk to them.
What you describe here is already used in the E bike conversion with Bafang, Tongsheng and others to fit in the frame BB bracket. Should be coming one of these days. 😎😎😎
@@MarcABrown-tt1fp i ride one road bike, hybrid bike, fatbike…all regular and also one roadbike and a fatbike with assistance… no throttle. You must pedal to move. I use all of them for 6500 km a year. When you will get to 68 years old like me, you might start to need some help 🤨
Any chance you could give an update for the efficiency data on the gearbox transmissions now that Rohloff and Pinion aren't the only noteworthy options?
I am normally a traditionalist, and look to 'new' as manufactures cost cutting and hoping the consumer doesn't notice. But in this case I think these could be the best thing to hit bikes since the derailleur. I live in Florida, U.S.A. and we have torrential rain during the summer months, your cassettes and chain are going to be coated in mud and muck in short order. A sealed system with a belt drive would be perfect for those soggy summers!
You were mentioning your 2022 buyers guide. Can u already say when you will release it? I am currently planing to get a bike for offroadtraveling for early 2022 :) Thaks for you great content Alee!
I'd say late-Nov/early-Dec (depends on bike manufacturers). But you get free yearly updates to your email, should you be worried the 2021 edition is outdated soon...
about that warranty, Pinion P-line has 5 years and the C-line has 2 year. At the cost of 89euro you can register the C-line and get a 3 year additional warranty. Any repair post warranty has a fixed price at pinion of 199,00 euro, except a housing replacement.
Instead of having one big chunky gearbox, what about 2 small gearboxes, one at the rear wheel and one at the bottom bracket. Maybe something like a 2x4 bike where the rear hub has 4 gears and the front gearbox - 2. You don't need to worry about chain alignment since everything is internal so all 8 gears are accessible, the pedals can be closer together because of the thinner front gearbox and with a properly designed frame to integrate the front gearbox into the frame and with internal cabling the bike would look sleek and aero like a gear system wasn't even there
A Pinion gearbox has two stages (a 6-speed and a 3-speed for an 18-speed combination), which logically could be separated, but the total weight and bulk would be higher.
Generally very interesting Gearbox and well explained video. Only two things: 1. Any hub motor won't transmit torque to the gearbox as the connection is disrupted by at least one freehub. i.e. the motor's torque will only go through the wheel. That doesn't necessarily make them a good combination but it takes the motortorque out of the equation. For higher wattage motors which are illegal in most places this might be a good fit though. 2. Instead of buying a propriteary backwheel without a hub, which would actually be more expensive, you can buy any fixie-specific hub. They are often symmetrical as well and they don't have freehubs either. Maybe there is some geometrical disadvantage but it is certainly an option to avoid having to maintain two freehubs. Thinking about the second point the cheap combo-option would be a nice feature for the future. Not every cyclist enthusiasticly following up on your channel has the financial means to take the full package, for some even small savings will make such expensive technologyjumps more likely.
@@GordoGambler Well, ten years ago this was an appropriate statement for most of us, in the meantime most of us have realised that you still need to use your legs on most ebikes, at least as long as they have a torque sensor and not just a cadence-sensor. And most of us have realised that E-Motors are motivating more people to use the bikes and not the car and that the real difference is the distance you can travel with the same effort, not the effort itself. For instance i now commute regularly with my ebike to my 40k away job. I'd never do that this often without the assist. It allows me to transport additional clothing, food, water, do my groceries on the way back, it kicks in when i am running into a wall and let's me drive with a more comfortable bike than i would usually and thus let's me use roads i wouldn't on my road bike, reducing the risk in traffic. There is so many advantages and so many people that benefit from them. Only elitist fucks hate on them because they fear that some of the ebike users might just get healthier overall and might just get sportier and might just start enjoying cycling so much that they'd buy some foolishly expensive carbon racer and give you a run for your life at the next race. I for one am keeping my other bikes and using them for leasure, because i still love them, but none of them would allow me to get to work an back on a long day. And every time i cross other people on two-wheelers, be it electrified or not, i am happy to see them out there, enjoying life. And if they're old, lazy, or whatsoever and enjoy their ebike, i am happy that we have ebikes that bring people to enjoy cycling.
Awesome bro, nice content & edit. Will try to get old mate Rob Metz to watch, he's a little burnt out but great presentation of the future, the Katipo is the best bike ever, hope you have ridden one.
Fasinating & great to see Effigear joining the market… would be awesome if they did a slightly wider range as per other gearbox providers… I’m considering building my own bike frame & have been looking at various ideas/options of how to have it, this gives me more to consider :-)
A 100 thousand kilometer mechanical service life! If that proves true, they certainly didn't build it with " Planned obsolescence in mind! " That's good 👍 to know and hear in a world of throwaway products.
It's one of my favourite reasons to own gearbox bikes! There is a guy with a verified 430,000km on his Rohloff hub - as of one year ago. He should be up to about 450,000km now. :)
It does make sense for bikes with rear suspension .. but for hard tails ordinary bikes the good old hub gears are good enough + you have the option for coaster brake that i very much like
I think price is the main reason gearboxes are still unfortunately niche, a sunrace 11-50 tooth cassette and a deore derailleur costs like 150 bucks at most! Can't really say no to that!
One critical point on anything to do with cycling is weight. That should be an important discussion point if a fair comparison with current systems is to be made.
I really want an inexpensive urban bike dedicated to commuting and picking up groceries that has a belt drive and gearbox or internal hub. Every bike I have seen is over $1000 which would kill me if it were stolen. Hoping one day the technology will come down to the $300 price range, with cheaper aluminium frames and no suspension.
I'm dumb founded on correct gearing...trying to get significantly slower/as comfortable pedal cadence at 30 mph mark for a ebike. Will this do the trick with its gear ratios? Don't want to move legs excessively...which effects balance of cruising. Make & weld frame to fit gear box.😉
Interesting. I would think that an ultra light bike with the main gear weight all in the middle it would make a trials or cross country bike very fun as the rear end is so light like a singles peed bmx.
Thanks for posting. What prevents bike makers from building drive trains with say 700% or 800% gear ranges? Such a 50th rear 11 speed with a three chain rings up front? Is there such a thing as to much gearing?
There are limitations at the rear derailleur. It would need to take up a lot of chain slack with a 3X + wide range cassette. We could design a derailleur to accomodate for it, but the cage length would be huge - making it too easy to damage.
So an advantage of the Effigear design was the output offset upward from the crank, but now it has lost that advantage for compatibility with frames designed for the Pinion gearbox.
Awesome video mate, great info! Effigear need to pick up their game when it comes to getting more info about their product out there. Would love to try it one day but don't see much chance of that happening in Oz :(
The popular Pinion 9 speed is more efficient than the original 12 speed. I only found one paper...probably a college student study that had efficiencies equalling or bettering the Rohloff IHT.
I have a pinion c1.9xr gearbox with a chain drive on an urban style bike. Comments: Bottom bracket gearboxes require higher chain tensions than rear hub or derailleur systems. The low gear must use then same rear sprocket. I tried changing my chain, but the new one was very noisy, so I have gone back to the old one. Still at about 0.75% stretched. I do not want to change the entire drive train every time a chain is worn. As a result of this I am back using my derailleur equipped bike. Perhaps a belt drive conversion is called for. I do not much like the twist shifter, as I get a sore hand gripping the shifter. The 568% range is useful. I dont think a much lower range is a good idea. The old 1x/3x debate. I think 9 speeds is plenty, even over this wide range. I think I can adapt my cadence a little. I think lost of steps are something that sounds better but not greatly useful, and in the early days of derailleures made changing gear easier. I find that I often want a big change, and with only nine speeds I can change faster. And its cheaper and lighter.
Thank you. Great to have honest, up to date information. Transmission losses seem to be quite low with these modern gearboxes and possibly irrelevant in the hilly terrain with old glacial valleys that we have in my area. Reduced loss of momentum during shifting is a big thing in these parts, especially when riding on narrow streets and roads.
A gearbox with a built in electric motor the product with belt drive would fantastic. I ride a tadpole trike so the belt drive is not in my cards but it is easy to put an Effigear or a Pinion by dropping in a new boom. It is nice to know what is coming down the pipe so thank you for your post. I ride two trike and both have Rohloffs.
I never knew there was a freewheel in the gearbox too. Does Pinion also do that? Is there a reason for it beside the Fixed option you show in the video?
Efficiency? New drive system is needed such as CeramicSpeed or string bike, or low friction BAM chains. Steel IGH's are heavy and do wear, titanium or HPPE gears could be much lighter. Rohloff hubs can be used on many frames and I'd prefer titanium over cheap aluminum, electric motor can be used in front wheel which offers some great adavntages.
I don't think so. We will have to see the design proven first, but it is refreshing to see companies that try to challenge established and serious players.
At last a real evolution for those who don't want to buy an e-bike (the one who changes the most ecological means of transport into a polluant one). I hope this will be soon available on a majority of MTB. It could be my next bike.
Cutting edge stuff! I hope this does not mean that I wasted my money on a Pinion P18 gearbox. Of course, I am using it daily, and I didn't need to wait until the end of the this year.
I hope you enjoyed learning all about gearboxes today! 🔥 What other bicycle topics would you like me to break down? 🚴🏼♂️
Gear ratios. How low to climb with packs, realistically.
@@atropineman3541 This video will teach you how to determine the appropriate gear ratios for a loaded touring bike, based on road gradients, your preferred cadence and your power output: ruclips.net/video/ipENw5mjjSg/видео.html
@Paul Plebian Great to hear! Frame size, back pain and numb hands are tricky topics because every body is so different in terms of flexibility, strength & riding style. People normally need to find out for themselves by experimenting, or working with a physio and/or experienced bike fitter.
I'll need to check if there are some basic principles that people can apply more broadly, preferably backed with solid research.
I'm not familiar with this. So thank you for informing me about it via this video!
Lots'a love, cheers, & Mabuhay, from tropical Philippines! #KeepBiking
Yes, I am saving to affort one of them, can you please tell me the model and brand of the bike you show in minute 1:31 to 33
Thanks
As a French cyclist I’m excited to see this kind of video. It’s time we bring these kind of initiatives to the masses !
The French are an innovative bunch! Almost all of my favourite custom bike builders come from your pocket of the world. 😎
@@Cyclingabout don't forget Look!
@@mrjellow I'm really NOT a fan of Look.
I know Hambini has shown that they get their frame tolerances right, but having spent a fair bit of time on 695 and 795 road bikes - their propriety parts suck (if you can find them - they're always out of stock), they require a lot of maintenance (695 stems are a nightmare), the integrated posts are much stiffer than I'd like, and the stem and bars are hilariously flexy.
Having worked at a Look dealer for many years, they're plagued with warranty issues too...
I would never buy one again.
@@Cyclingabout Appreciate your insight. I'm the first one to lament proprietary parts and in that regard Look does not get a pass from me. However the zed crank with adjustable crank is a cool idea and the aero properties of the 795 is something that has only recently been discovered by other brands. I now ride a 785 huez without any proprietary parts and it is a superb bike. However, I am well aware of the abundance of warranty cases and their lack of support. What kind of defects did you come across if I may ask?
@@mrjellow I honestly cannot remember the specifics of the Look warranty issues - it's been quite a while since I was working in shops.
Definitely paint cracks, stem creaks we couldn't solve, and massive wait times on the proprietory bearings and parts. From memory, over 50% of all top-tier Look bikes came back for one issue or another, and we were one of the biggest dealers in Australia.
I'm glad to hear you're happy with the 785. No proprietory parts is a win!
Pinion is in production for 9 years now. I bought a bike (MTB) with the first series in 2012. Never had a problem. Its great to see the some standards appearing. Nice video.
You are the voice of gearbox technology!
A “Guide,” helping riders “Deviate,”towards better bikes!!
That connected to both pedals, and an electric motor, and you've got something really special. An all in one unit. all your gears, in a box, with a motor capable of assisting, or turning a bike into a machine that'll get ya across town, almost twice as fast as a good bicycle.
I've been shopping around for parts for a custom ebike and I think I have my idea now
They have partnered with Valeo,, combining their gear with a krank electric drive
This channel deserves more subscribers. Thanks for the info!
Let's just celebrate that this is pure mechanical thing, no electronics!!
Why? Anyway, they're looking into electronic shifting.
@@fillfreakin2245 You're more likely to be stranded with an electronic issue than you are with a mechanical one.
@@albertdesalvo7273 Umm, that's highly debatable.
@@fillfreakin2245 It is an inescapable fact complex vehicles, especially those with electronic componentry, are more prone to breakdowns than straightforward, non-electronic designs. That is why successful Overlanders always choose the latter vehicle. Furthermore, in 1960, the U.S. Navy noted that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complicated; therefore, simplicity should be a key goal in design, and unnecessary complexity should be avoided. The design principle was known as KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).
@@albertdesalvo7273 So, yes keeping it simple can reduce chances of breakdown. That makes sense. But as an industrial electrician, I can tell you firsthand that we often like to replace mechanical components with electronic ones because the provide much greater reliability. Electronics are often much simpler than mechanical equivalents. So it meets KISS principles.
For me it's becoming increasingly interesting to see a middrive motor combined with a gearbox like this, on an MTB chassis - with room for a rear shock and a water bottle. I hope it happens some day.
Indeed, I think it's a perfect solution for ebikes. Bit loss of efficiency will not be relevant in those.
Just get a dirt bike or gods sake you will be much happier
@@coreygolphenee9633 not where I live on the trials i ride. Dirt bikes are very restricted in where you can ride, where as an MTB you can ride almost everywhere on every trail in my country.
@@TeamCykelhold fair enough in from the US where I watch software engineers drop 15k on a yeti for the top of their Toyota Tacoma its just kinda gross to watch a hobby get taken by rich kids who's parents will buy them anything other than a dirt bike.
@@coreygolphenee9633 Hehe I'm a software engineer myself, just not in the US - funny you mention it :) On the matter of cost, yes bikes are getting ridiculous if you go for yeti or specialized sworks, but there is always cheaper options like commencal or the like. My freeride bike I bought second hand for about 2k USD. Doesn't have to cost 15k or even 5k :)
Absolutely love your videos, currently in omeo having a day off whilst doing the hunt 1000 route. Would love to see a video about you're thoughts of converting an old steel mtb into a touring/bikepacking bike or a 5 to 10 year old aluminium hardtail into a rig more suited for long days in the sadle on a budget.
Thanks a lot, I was just about to start on a custom fat bike (with a Pinion / Rohloff drivetrain) project that will likely take 2 years or more to complete. My big decision WAS Pinion or Rohloff before watching this video. Thank you for doing all that you do, great job.
Great to hear! It's super cool seeing so many people give gearbox bikes a go. 😎
I'm planning on doing a custom hardtail Mtb and I'm going for a Rolhoff gearhub because of the engagement is better then a pinion.
I'm currently building a Rohloff geared fat bike hopefully with Gates belt drive or failing this traditional chain.
@@alexmorgan3435 you'll be in love once your done. I've talked to a few people that have done this on other bikes and all have had nothing but good things to say.
@@buckroger6456 Hopefully. I already have 2 other bikes with Rohloff hubs. I am not new to the Rohloff hub.
Nice to have more gearbox options. Thanks for the highly detailed info.
And more usless weight =/ 1+ kg.
@@NuckyThompson ill take the extra weight over having to clean the fucking derailleur after each ride.
@@owca6666=/ Disassembled, cleaned, reassembled. I don't see this as a serious problem.
@@NuckyThompson I prefer to ride the bike.
Very good channel for everyday biking. Many RUclipsrs refer to road racers or MTBs, but not often enough with "commuter bikes"
Obvious points 1:
Derailleur system - 'Gear overlaps' ineffability by 1/3 to 1/2 of all gears that are useless (for 2x crankset)
Gearbox System - 'Gear steps' are stupid to space evenly across the gear range from "high speed" to "hill" gears, which is unnecessary weight penalty, except for Alfine 8 or Envolio or Sturmey Archer
Point 2 - That is why the well established Derailleurs have smaller gear steps at "high speed" and wider gear steps on "hills"
Point 3 - How many gears do you actually use in a city? From "standstill" to some "hills" to high speed? ANS: 6 gears at most, unless you ride from rural to city, which uses 9 gears from "small up hill" to "high speed down hill" on tarmac.
Point 4 - Use "traffic-light gear" on flat at standstill as a "baseline" for all other gears. This baseline are roughly 1.0x complete crank revolution to 2~2.5x Wheel turns or 1:2 ratio.
Point 5 - Gear choice are highly dependent on terrain. Most gearbox in the market "gear steps" and "gear counts" are design towards MTB terrain, not everyday city commuter except for Alfine 8 (lighter bikes sensitive to gear steps) or Envolio or Sturmey Archer (heavier bikes where gear steps are not as important)
Point 6 - Finding the right "gear range and step" is not an exact science and it also depends on "Tyre dia and width"
Point 7 - Rear cog has a "designed recommended minimal gear tooth", too low and it may damage the gears.
Point 8 - Gearbox does NOT mean you could use Carbon belt drive instead of chain drive, it depends if the rear frame has a split or not.
I feel like having a tighter range for the uphill gears makes more sense that to be able to have such fine adjustment when going fast🤔
not for trekking where you sometimes go dozens of kilometers against the same resistance (surface, inclination, wind) and have multiple km/h change per gear.
I was thinking about that. I feel the same, smaller gear range when going uphill seems to fit better.
I just want smaller gear steps throughout the WHOLE gear range in a linear range. This way it is easier to maintain cadence, power and speed. Huge jumps which are effectively 3-4T difference in sprocket size from one gear to the next is ridiculous. I found the best set up on a derailleur bike was a rear cassette with only one tooth difference between gears and the use of a triple front chain set to maintain a wide over all range for those gears, but unfortunately the bike industry has ha different ideas and ditched double and triple chain sets in favour of 1x which is a regressive step imho. Anyway derailleurs are all academic for me as I ditched them about 6 years ago moving to Rohloff hubs and I haven't looked back. Good riddance to derailleurs, awful primitive high maintenance transmissions. Gear boxes are far better on so many fronts. I think the Pinion P1.18 with Gates belt drive is still the gearbox to have with it's wide range and relatively small steps between gears.
@@alexmorgan3435 yea i definitely think gearboxes are the future of touring/city bikes :)
i just think if you have a derailleur it would be nice to have a smaller gear step range for the uphill gears and wider gear step ranges lower down.
@@alexmorgan3435 Cadence seems to be a really personal thing. I've been mountain biking for decades and I have never been able to tell the difference between any reasonable level of gear steps. I would be perfectly happy on a wide range six speed 1x drivetrain. But I know many friends who are adamant that having a 10t cog makes a huge difference for them.
It looks like gearboxes will pick up significant momentum in the coming years. The trend of building a fixed gearbox into a frame - which is a very realistic possibility when the gearbox manufacturer and the bicycle manufacturer are one and the same - will lead to new oligopolistic practices. There is a danger that these will result to premature (planned) obsolescence and expensive throwaway bicycles. A better route for most I feel would be making gearboxes that can be retrofitted to existing bicycles by adapting the crankset or simply changing the crankset to one that will mate with the gearbox. There might be some weight savings associated with this solutions as the gearbox casing will not have to be an integral part of the frame and thus, the load bearing sections will be reduced.
But that necessarily puts the gearbox very low to the ground, which is not ideal for mountain biking. For road usage, derailleurs are usually superior. So that would leave your solution only useful for road tourers IMO - a very small market segment. Ideally we would have a standard gearbox dimension.
@@szurketaltos2693 No, what I'm suggesting would put the gearbox above the bottom bracket, not below it. It would be clamped to the frame and take power from one of the rings, by using a suitable cog, or through some other arrangement involving perhaps a bespoke crankset.
What's disposable about gearboxes rated for 50-100.000km? Longevity is one of the main goals. If you want a drivetrain that can fit any bike, get a derailleur system. That's why they came about. The same mount for those has been used for decades.
@@seitenryu6844 A crushed/damaged bicycle frame of which it is an integral part.
I want a gearbox that can fit any bicycle - I already have plenty of derailleurs - for the same reason you mentioned and a few others.
@@Stelios.Posantzis that may work for road and gravel bikes but I don't think modern MTBs have enough space there.
I can recognize that landscape in almost every angle: You were in Oaxaca City, my hometown!! :D
I have always wanted to get the Rohloff's gearbox, as it's compatible with older bicycles, like mine. Mine is so old that still uses the freewheel system (21 shifts). :(
Very nice detailed analysis and high quality video documentary of the information about bicycle gearboxes.
Good to have a 'box that will down change under load, any load taken off the pedals on a steep climb totally kills any momentum you might have.
Lovely breakdown, Alee. These gearboxes slowly keep getting better and better. Any rumours on whether Rohloff is investigating a mid-mounted gearhub like this?
I haven't heard anything from Rohloff. But check out the Nuseti Inner Drive System that was showing at Eurobike this year. It's using a planetary crank-based gearbox with 16-gears: www.cyclingabout.com/eurobike-2021-gravel-bikes-bikepacking-bags-new-gearbox/
No Rohloff aren't. They are sticking with what they know and currently do.
Great little commuter , perfect for town rides and getting groceries and sight seeing. It’s really fast. I like it !
The cycling about = The cycle journalist
@Mechanick true
The reason for heavy gearboxes is not that they are so great, but that belts can’t work with derailleurs.
This gearbox is my dream I thank you for all your videos I hope I'm gonna get a bike with this gearbox very soon Once again thank you for your videos
I have a feeling that gearboxes won't come to the mainstream mountainbike market in a very long time if ever. Simply due to the efficiency and starting price.
But I can see gearboxes coming to a good amount of e-mtb cause they are already way more expensive to begin with so the added price won't be as noticeable and thanks to the added power of the electric motor won't the efficiency loss be noticeable either.
Same view. Was searching for this comment.
@@rahuldasmajumder5121 smart people think alike =)
I tried my friends Taniwha for a day and it was just incredible. For full suspension bikes I honestly think gearboxes are the future, that Taniwha is just amazing
Sram shifter compatibility is really a huge pro for everyone who does not like the grip shifters
Love to see another gearbox hit the market! Thanks for your as always excellent explanation. I would like to see your take on the Kindernay geared hub system............. It looks to be an exciting addition to that market. Thanks for sharing.
Rohloff is a really good upgrade for mid drives in my opinion. I put a Rohloff on my GT VERB that has a BBSHD mid drive unit on it after the lower gears were pretty much worn out after about 1500km Im 6"4 and close to 150kg done over 10 000km so far with the rohloff and still going strong. Its been a lot of fun, hopefully its got atleast another 20 000km left in it.
This reminds me of a gearbox for which Shimano filed a patent about a year ago. The inner workings look very similar to me based on some drawings reported by the cycling media back then
Completely different, the Shimano patent uses a chain going over two 'cassettes', it's not a constant gear mesh gearbox like the Effigear and Pinion (and your manual car transmission) are.
@@Primoz.r yes, I forgot that is used a chain
What I think the bike industry really needs is a high quality, high gear range gearbox that is considerably cheaper than pinion and Rohloff. The best option i know it's the Shimano alfine 11, but the gear range isn't really enough for mountain terrain.
Fingers crossed for the All-To gearbox from South Korea. 🤞🏻
Great content as always Alee! I look forward to the day when I can afford to leave all derailleurs behind for good. As of last week, all 8 of my families bikes are either 1x or single speed.
You're well on your way to a derailleur free life!
Yeah it's a great feeling when you can finally ditch them. A horrid system for every day riding that used to be cheap and nasty but seems to now be an expensive and nasty system as prices for quality derailleurs, cassettes and chainsets are now stupid money. My Rohloff hubs have paid for themselves many times over. The biggest benefit has not been spending dead time cleaning and fettling the bloody things. Good riddance.
@@alexmorgan3435 I want a rohloff so bad, or perhaps a whole pinion bike. I tried a Enviolo hub bike once, it was kinda weird but I'm sure the maintenance free part makes up for the strange operation.
Deep Tangent noise & stress on teeth which wears out cassettes , chains & cogs faster . This is still a slight problem with 1× systems .
@@alexmorgan3435 But planetary hubs are long established technology just relocated to the BB area .
I would like a 3 or 5 speed for ebike conversation, even the new 7 speed interval gears is more than most ebike riders use.
exactly, with a wide range too.
Still having so much fun with Kindernay XIV hydraulic gears shiffting after using Rohloff this is a different game.
Great to hear!
What are the differences in use that you have found between the Rohloff and the Kindernay, I have a Rohloff and am interested.
@@johnlesoudeur3653 main difference for me is a shifter. Im better suited with lever shifter from Kindernay and feedback from hydraulic between each gear. Plus you dont need a use whole hand to shift just a thumb. Last think Rolhoff still not naturally supporting a 10/12mm true axle standart.
@@Anonymous-jx8mv Thanks for the information. Do you still have to back off a little under load with the Kindernay? I have heard that the pedals have to rotate around 20 degrees before taking up the gear as well. Any difference with perceived inefficiency?
@@johnlesoudeur3653 absolutly not its the same like rohloff if you ride it. If you shifting to lower gear you just need for split second stop pedal(stop load) and shift than you can instantly pedal. Diference between Rohloff is you can change higher gear under almost full load(not sure how its on E-bike).
Great video. Have been looking at these for a while. I’ll get one on my next bike for sure.
interestingly, according to ritzelrechner, the lowest gear of effigear would allow for much steeper comfortable climbs than a pinion (which itself already presents an excellent performance), and not by a small difference - in my case on a 20kg bike+equipment it would be the difference between a max gradient of 13.3% vs 11.5% for the pinion. For this alone, I would very much consider using effigear on a touring bike
I still ride my 1978 team Raleigh Sport with light steel frame and manual shifting and smile every time and yes my specialized carbon collecting dust.Point here is new tech does not mean better not when you got to pay thousands
👏👏👏👍👍probably most honest, technical review than many!😅😅🤟🤟
Thank You for this Video!! Do we know what materials are used on EFFIGEAR gears? You are doing Great Videos. Keep it ^P
upshift under load that's the kind of improvements that will slowly make gearboxes a better overall solution. solid an wider hub without freewheel mechanism sounds neat too but probably hard to find
Thanks for the video. Very interesting. Effigear have told me that there are no Gates pulleys that will mount directy to the Mimic but I think I see one in your video at around 2:04 that looks like it does. Do you have any more information on the bike in this image? TIA.
Sigh, makes me remember how I suffered on a single speed Raleigh whose cotter pins kept deforming, so that most of the cycle's life one pedal clunked instantly from vertical of the crank's cycle down to about 4 o'clock with a shin shivering thud. Suffered through 6 miles of that torture every day from 1968 to 1979.
*"...cotter pins..."*
Yeah I forgot about those but still remember all my Woodruff keys failures on motorbikes 😁
I still can't find a pinion gearbox in the open market unless it is through a oem with a frame/gearbox combo, is nice to see another player in the market hopefully we see things spice up in the gearbox arena
Im going to need one of these so much easier to adapt to my project for a tricycle camper
I was a big fan of the previous Effigear, because the input and output were not concentric, which gave suspension designers some flexibility with pivot locations, notably higher main pivots for those square-on hits that mountain bikes are subjected to regularly.
You don't need to talk in the past tense. The Mimic is a second gearbox option alongside the Original. 👍🏻
@@Cyclingabout Perfect 😊
What if you combine this front gearbox with the Shimano alfine rear internal gear box? 😍😎 You have two internal gear box and lots of gears!
Thinking about it....
I've been riding single speed for over 25 years waiting for this tech.. awesome!!
Best gear box was the three speed sturmy archers. Lived In an oil bath. No silly rubbish. They were on utility bicycles that were left outside all the time. Awesome bit of Kit.
They're still available and still great!
I very much enjoy these videos.
Great video!!!! The price comparison with the other IGS was great! Thank you!
Glad you liked it!
I think any MTB manufacturer working on high pivot bikes should consider this. It could offset some of the weight and reduced power of current drivetrains/high pivots. It'll probably still be less power efficient, but then that's already a compromise high pivot bikes are making.
I've been waiting 10 years for rear derailers to go extinct and gearboxes to go mainstream in the mountain bike industry. Looks like we have a while more to go. But I like that the mounting bracket in the frame is becoming defacto-standard. That will help. Someone should sell CNC'd light weight brackets that bolt into the frame where a gearbox goes, but has just a regular BB mount in it. This would let you sell the same frame as a gearbox or derailer bike. That could help manufacturers slowly switch to gearboxes without as much risk to them.
They break very easily. 🤦🏻♀️
What you describe here is already used in the E bike conversion with Bafang, Tongsheng and others to fit in the frame BB bracket. Should be coming one of these days. 😎😎😎
@@richardbiron6908 Ugh.. Ebikes... more like motorcycles, completely unnecessary for cyclists.
@@MarcABrown-tt1fp i ride one road bike, hybrid bike, fatbike…all regular and also one roadbike and a fatbike with assistance… no throttle. You must pedal to move. I use all of them for 6500 km a year.
When you will get to 68 years old like me, you might start to need some help 🤨
@@richardbiron6908 ebikes are also great if you live in a very hilly area and if you just want a car replacement.
Any chance you could give an update for the efficiency data on the gearbox transmissions now that Rohloff and Pinion aren't the only noteworthy options?
Nikolai Bikes have been doing gearboxes for a very long time, and man, they know how to make kick ass bikes(and very expensive too).
I am normally a traditionalist, and look to 'new' as manufactures cost cutting and hoping the consumer doesn't notice. But in this case I think these could be the best thing to hit bikes since the derailleur. I live in Florida, U.S.A. and we have torrential rain during the summer months, your cassettes and chain are going to be coated in mud and muck in short order. A sealed system with a belt drive would be perfect for those soggy summers!
Ok if GIH are gearboxes (5:50), what about the unsprung weight mentionned earlier? They are a lot heavier than a mech and cassette.
You were mentioning your 2022 buyers guide. Can u already say when you will release it? I am currently planing to get a bike for offroadtraveling for early 2022 :)
Thaks for you great content Alee!
I'd say late-Nov/early-Dec (depends on bike manufacturers). But you get free yearly updates to your email, should you be worried the 2021 edition is outdated soon...
about that warranty, Pinion P-line has 5 years and the C-line has 2 year. At the cost of 89euro you can register the C-line and get a 3 year additional warranty. Any repair post warranty has a fixed price at pinion of 199,00 euro, except a housing replacement.
I didn't know you could extend the warranty, thanks!
Instead of having one big chunky gearbox, what about 2 small gearboxes, one at the rear wheel and one at the bottom bracket. Maybe something like a 2x4 bike where the rear hub has 4 gears and the front gearbox - 2. You don't need to worry about chain alignment since everything is internal so all 8 gears are accessible, the pedals can be closer together because of the thinner front gearbox and with a properly designed frame to integrate the front gearbox into the frame and with internal cabling the bike would look sleek and aero like a gear system wasn't even there
A Pinion gearbox has two stages (a 6-speed and a 3-speed for an 18-speed combination), which logically could be separated, but the total weight and bulk would be higher.
Great….Now combine a gearbox with a mid drive e-bike all in one and I’m in!😂
Generally very interesting Gearbox and well explained video. Only two things:
1. Any hub motor won't transmit torque to the gearbox as the connection is disrupted by at least one freehub. i.e. the motor's torque will only go through the wheel. That doesn't necessarily make them a good combination but it takes the motortorque out of the equation. For higher wattage motors which are illegal in most places this might be a good fit though.
2. Instead of buying a propriteary backwheel without a hub, which would actually be more expensive, you can buy any fixie-specific hub. They are often symmetrical as well and they don't have freehubs either. Maybe there is some geometrical disadvantage but it is certainly an option to avoid having to maintain two freehubs.
Thinking about the second point the cheap combo-option would be a nice feature for the future. Not every cyclist enthusiasticly following up on your channel has the financial means to take the full package, for some even small savings will make such expensive technologyjumps more likely.
Why is everybody talking about FUCKING E MOTORS??? Grow some legs.
@@GordoGambler Well, ten years ago this was an appropriate statement for most of us, in the meantime most of us have realised that you still need to use your legs on most ebikes, at least as long as they have a torque sensor and not just a cadence-sensor.
And most of us have realised that E-Motors are motivating more people to use the bikes and not the car and that the real difference is the distance you can travel with the same effort, not the effort itself.
For instance i now commute regularly with my ebike to my 40k away job. I'd never do that this often without the assist. It allows me to transport additional clothing, food, water, do my groceries on the way back, it kicks in when i am running into a wall and let's me drive with a more comfortable bike than i would usually and thus let's me use roads i wouldn't on my road bike, reducing the risk in traffic.
There is so many advantages and so many people that benefit from them. Only elitist fucks hate on them because they fear that some of the ebike users might just get healthier overall and might just get sportier and might just start enjoying cycling so much that they'd buy some foolishly expensive carbon racer and give you a run for your life at the next race.
I for one am keeping my other bikes and using them for leasure, because i still love them, but none of them would allow me to get to work an back on a long day. And every time i cross other people on two-wheelers, be it electrified or not, i am happy to see them out there, enjoying life. And if they're old, lazy, or whatsoever and enjoy their ebike, i am happy that we have ebikes that bring people to enjoy cycling.
Awesome bro, nice content & edit. Will try to get old mate Rob Metz to watch, he's a little burnt out but great presentation of the future, the Katipo is the best bike ever, hope you have ridden one.
Is it possible that with a 9/18 red gearbox you want to go faster with less pedal power
Fasinating & great to see Effigear joining the market… would be awesome if they did a slightly wider range as per other gearbox providers… I’m considering building my own bike frame & have been looking at various ideas/options of how to have it, this gives me more to consider :-)
I suspect if the Mimic takes off, there will be multiple options similar to Pinion.
thanks for another very interesting vid, some of those bikes looked amazing, the future is now, great stuff
With the 9/18 red gearbox, how much speed is possible to do with little pedal power, how fast is it going.
A 100 thousand kilometer mechanical service life! If that proves true, they certainly didn't build it with " Planned obsolescence in mind! " That's good 👍 to know and hear in a world of throwaway products.
It's one of my favourite reasons to own gearbox bikes! There is a guy with a verified 430,000km on his Rohloff hub - as of one year ago. He should be up to about 450,000km now. :)
10:08 interesting graph that shows tha Rohloff speedhub is very efficient.
It does make sense for bikes with rear suspension .. but for hard tails ordinary bikes the good old hub gears are good enough + you have the option for coaster brake that i very much like
I think price is the main reason gearboxes are still unfortunately niche, a sunrace 11-50 tooth cassette and a deore derailleur costs like 150 bucks at most! Can't really say no to that!
Hopefully, the All-To gearbox will sell for a similar price as that's one of their aims.
@@Cyclingabout Awesome! I look forward to it
Yebbut derailleurs are just horrible. Been there, used them for 30 years. Thankfully no more.
One critical point on anything to do with cycling is weight. That should be an important discussion point if a fair comparison with current systems is to be made.
there's a symmetrical 240s centrelock singlespeed freewheel hub? holy shit why didn't i know about this?!
It looks heavy, flexless, & expensively oily. Any chance we'll see it fit on or attached onto an adapter for a "classic" bottom bracket?
I don't think so because it'd move the crankset quite dramatically from where it was intended to be.
Ugh, I just watched a video with you saying the Gates Belt Drive is much better than chains. Did you change your mind?
At this price point I can make my bike drive on it's own and charge my phone in the same time. Idea is great but price is more important!
I really want an inexpensive urban bike dedicated to commuting and picking up groceries that has a belt drive and gearbox or internal hub. Every bike I have seen is over $1000 which would kill me if it were stolen. Hoping one day the technology will come down to the $300 price range, with cheaper aluminium frames and no suspension.
Fascinating between this and Ryan Van Duzer's Pinion gearbox Priority 600x bicycles
Well explained,you are a great narrator/communicator of tech information,thankyou,ps can it be installed on a hard tail also
Thanks. Yes, any bike with the Pinion-style frame plate - there are many hardtail Pinion bikes out there.
Thankyou my friend
Have you seen the mtb Allen millyard built for his son?
Why aren't mtb manufacturers beating his door down?
Hey buddy. Do you still have ganglion cyst after you treated with the book
I'm dumb founded on correct gearing...trying to get significantly slower/as comfortable pedal cadence at 30 mph mark for a ebike. Will this do the trick with its gear ratios?
Don't want to move legs excessively...which effects balance of cruising.
Make & weld frame to fit gear box.😉
Yes, in fact, the bigger gear jumps will be less noticeable to you at 30rpm cadence.
Thank you for the update 👍👀❤
Interesting. I would think that an ultra light bike with the main gear weight all in the middle it would make a trials or cross country bike very fun as the rear end is so light like a singles peed bmx.
Thanks for posting. What prevents bike makers from building drive trains with say 700% or 800% gear ranges? Such a 50th rear 11 speed with a three chain rings up front? Is there such a thing as to much gearing?
There are limitations at the rear derailleur. It would need to take up a lot of chain slack with a 3X + wide range cassette. We could design a derailleur to accomodate for it, but the cage length would be huge - making it too easy to damage.
what I've never understood is that if the gear box has a clutch (ie freewheel) why not have a fixed gear rear hub? ya know like a motorcycle?
So an advantage of the Effigear design was the output offset upward from the crank, but now it has lost that advantage for compatibility with frames designed for the Pinion gearbox.
Effigear produces both gearbox variants depending on whether you want a high-pivot bike or not.
Allen Millyard created his own 'downhill racer' it had a few more innovations than described in this film
Awesome video mate, great info! Effigear need to pick up their game when it comes to getting more info about their product out there. Would love to try it one day but don't see much chance of that happening in Oz :(
Thanks! I squeezed them for as many details as I was interested in - is there anything else you think we should know about their gearboxes?
The popular Pinion 9 speed is more efficient than the original 12 speed. I only found one paper...probably a college student study that had efficiencies equalling or bettering the Rohloff IHT.
I have a pinion c1.9xr gearbox with a chain drive on an urban style bike.
Comments:
Bottom bracket gearboxes require higher chain tensions than rear hub or derailleur systems. The low gear must use then same rear sprocket. I tried changing my chain, but the new one was very noisy, so I have gone back to the old one. Still at about 0.75% stretched. I do not want to change the entire drive train every time a chain is worn.
As a result of this I am back using my derailleur equipped bike. Perhaps a belt drive conversion is called for.
I do not much like the twist shifter, as I get a sore hand gripping the shifter.
The 568% range is useful. I dont think a much lower range is a good idea. The old 1x/3x debate.
I think 9 speeds is plenty, even over this wide range. I think I can adapt my cadence a little. I think lost of steps are something that sounds better but not greatly useful, and in the early days of derailleures made changing gear easier. I find that I often want a big change, and with only nine speeds I can change faster. And its cheaper and lighter.
I’d love to figure out a way to mate my CYC motor to this gear box, we can dream
Thank you. Great to have honest, up to date information. Transmission losses seem to be quite low with these modern gearboxes and possibly irrelevant in the hilly terrain with old glacial valleys that we have in my area. Reduced loss of momentum during shifting is a big thing in these parts, especially when riding on narrow streets and roads.
I don't like fixed rear hubs, but this would be cool with that cause you slow down by downshifting like with a car or motorcycle.
A gearbox with a built in electric motor the product with belt drive would fantastic. I ride a tadpole trike so the belt drive is not in my cards but it is easy to put an Effigear or a Pinion by dropping in a new boom. It is nice to know what is coming down the pipe so thank you for your post. I ride two trike and both have Rohloffs.
So this will fit to a standard MTB wheel? If not, which bike brands will this work on?
I look forward to when gearbox technology becomes more common (read "affordable"!).
I never knew there was a freewheel in the gearbox too. Does Pinion also do that? Is there a reason for it beside the Fixed option you show in the video?
All gearboxes have a freewheel. They're necessary as the gearboxes are only designed to spin in one direction to prevent internal damage.
Efficiency? New drive system is needed such as CeramicSpeed or string bike, or low friction BAM chains. Steel IGH's are heavy and do wear, titanium or HPPE gears could be much lighter. Rohloff hubs can be used on many frames and I'd prefer titanium over cheap aluminum, electric motor can be used in front wheel which offers some great adavntages.
There is a whole section on this. Watch the video.
Thank you. This video is Great 👌🏼
This is good news. Pinion will have to get more competitive with the price.
I don't think so. We will have to see the design proven first, but it is refreshing to see companies that try to challenge established and serious players.
At last a real evolution for those who don't want to buy an e-bike (the one who changes the most ecological means of transport into a polluant one).
I hope this will be soon available on a majority of MTB. It could be my next bike.
Cutting edge stuff! I hope this does not mean that I wasted my money on a Pinion P18 gearbox. Of course, I am using it daily, and I didn't need to wait until the end of the this year.
The Pinion P1.18 is probably still the best and most useable gear box on the market. You haven't wasted your money.