That bike is pretty much a wish list of everything you would want in a bike. Plus the added bonus that you get to offset the weight of the bike with a much lighter wallet. They really have thought of everything.
Agreed. Very cool. The only "Dream option" I've been thinking of would be a 100w (ish) internal seat-tube mounted e-bike motor combined with a downtube battery charged by the hub. Granted, from what I've read so far this would almost double the cost of this already not-cheap bike.
@@ianfurqueron5850 I don't think a dynamo charger is the way to go, unfortunately. Dynamo hubs can charge a 5000mAh battery in about 7.5 hours of riding. Ebike batteries are 10-30x bigger than a powerbank, so you'd need to ride for 75-225 hours to get a full battery charge!
@@Cyclingabout part of the issue is I'm not thinking about a current ebike type battery. That's not what I want it for. Note I only said a 100w motor - less than half a typical e-bike motor. I don't envision the motor being used a lot. More like just a little boost to get a loaded bike over the crest of a long climb. 99% of the time it would be disengaged from the bottom bracket. So the battery wouldn't need to be quite as large. Plus, my thought is to have that battery replace the stem version in this bike.
@@ianfurqueron5850 By my napkin calculations, you might get 1-2km of assistance up a hill on a 100w motor per 7.5 hours of dynamo hub charging (17km/h for 128km). I suspect you'd actually be faster by not carrying a motor and battery, and not having the drag associated with the dynamo! Solar charging is probably the only way to generate enough charge for it to be worthwhile.
Seems amazing but slightly overpriced. By the way Alee, after watching your videos, I have purchased my first touring bike, and it's a Vivente Anatolia! Thank you for the recommendation sir
had a look at the Vivente Anatolia specifications and it appears to be a good touring bike . I ride a recumbent touring bike and I will never go back to sitting on a fence post holding my upper body weight on my hands or holding my head up to see where I am going. So one of these days when your body starts to object to all the things you felt were normal before , at least you have an option for comfort to continue to ride and tour!
A month ago I bought a Tout Terrain Tanami with rohloff/gates. I literally rolled it out the door of the shop and rode it on a 1000mile tour from Melbourne to Sydney. Making plans for my next tour real soon!
This is truly a no-compromise touring/commuting bike. It is too expensive for me (the most expensive version, but there are others also in there that are a lot more affordable), but it is lovely to see that there are options like these pushing the boundaries and I am certain that for some people this makes a lot of sense (it can be a car alternative for many). I wonder when we will get bikes where you have a plug in option to add an electric motor or take it out.
Hi Alee, just recieved my silkroad 27.5. Absolutely love it. Almost identical to ur video except I got Brooks ergo grips n jones h bars. Thanks to Damian for all his help.
I love it! That bike has everything to get you well on your way! This is a whole segment of biking that I never thought of until I started watching your videos. Thanks for covering ALL of the important details!
Loving the content as of late Alee! You are really hitting the sweet spot on RUclips in the bike packing/touring community, your content is really well produced, you know your stuff and its presented wonderfully I always enjoy watching your vids to the end. You've definitely inspred me to hit up areas in my neck of the woods on my bike. Hoping to see more of the collabs with other brands, maybe something from Salsa, Surly or Santos perhaps? Take care and am looking forward to the next video!
I'm in Canada and thinking I might need one of these if the American start their second civil war. Basically, I see this as the best travel option in a Mad Max world.
Horses bro.... Horses they feed themself and direct you to water when thete thirsty and can hold more weight and are faster than bikes or finding bike parts good luck
The Tout terrain frame geometry is similar to modern road bikes, and they offer some models with cinq drop bar shifters, so if thats your thing, go for it. Koga miyata offers a stiffer down tube and rear triangle so a weighty rider will feel a difference. Former MTB riders could find Rennstahl geometry more suitable. If steel is real for you, check out Patria Fahrräder, their frames look just a notch better in this segment, and you can spec them as wished. Some more aluminum reccomendations: Idworx, Santos, Simplon, Maxx cycles. If you want something on a "budget", but still the best value, check out VSF T900 and TX1200.
My ultimate dream bike is the Silkroad Xplore II 275 loaded. Of course I'm gonna have to travel to Freiburg to pick it up and test tour it around Europe. Thanks for this Alee. Your shot @ 4min56sec got my adrenaline pumping!
My touring bike (Boskey Overlander) has this mount for a spring to attach from the bottom tube to the fork to try and do the same thing... not great execution, it scratches against the mudguards. This steering lock on the other hand is awesome.
@@Gyvulys So your handlebars don't flop around when you lean the bike against something, causing the whole thing to come crashing down. No idea why they aren't standard on good bikes.
A couple of years back I almost bought a Tout Terrain (5th Avenue, irrc). However, they had just introduced a new configurator and it did not work properly for weeks. This and the slightly lower price tipped the scale towards Patria (the Randonneur model). Lugged Zona tubes, Rohloff, SON hub and headlight. To me, the Edelux II is the bike's most impressive aspect, it is _almost_ perfect to go really fast at night. For how expensive they are you see quite many Patrias in German cities, though I think Tout Terrain is more innovative.
1:01 forget about replacing a steel tube, they make special blocks that you can clamp to the frame to squeeze out dents. Besides, a dent isn't going to affect steel like it would aluminum.
A pair of wood blocks with half of a hole of the appropriate size work just as well as the official aluminum blocks. It only works with round tubes and will take the paint off even when you use lots of grease.
WoW! Thank you so much for this detailed overview of a brand I have never heard of! I am currently in the market for a new bike and all of your videos are extremely helpful in the decision making process. Now if only there wasn't a shortage of bikes due to disrupted supply chains I could be back on two wheels again!
I have just specked my silkroad. Rollhoff, belt ,smidht dynamo Jones bar, 27.5 andre rims. Green ofcourse. Thanks alee . It was between this and the koga world traveller but eventually I had to choose. Thanks to Damian Bradley for all your help and patience at tout terrain. Very good service and advice. Cant wait to get the beast home .
As a lifelong cyclist and motorcyclist this is amazing. I've owned BMW class-leading motorcycle adventure / touring bikes for the past 20 yrs and this is most impressive in terms of thinking of everything you need without adding the things you don't need. When I consider the price. Amazing. This is a bargain esp. if you consider the motorcycle equivalent is $30-40K.
Very interesting this new model of the Silk Road. I test-drove some Tout Terrain and found them very well made. The integrated rear carrier is typical of TT. Talking about other bikes: I have a Locomotive Cycles, Italian brand (as me), which is a “monster cross” or “adventure” bike, inox frame, quadruple butted, sloping, similar geometry to Salsa Fargo, can accomodate a lot of different wheel (I have three sets with 28” 30mm tyres, 29” 2.1” tyres, 27.5+ with 3” tyres), alternator drop-outs, elliptical wheel hub (you can rotate it). Unluckily it does not accommodate carbon rim because it doesn’t have opening on the rear. It has been designed with bike packing in mind, but you can fit further bags. I have Lauf fork in front. - perhaps you may test one of these bikes?
Years ago when I purchased by Pan Americana bicycle, I asked TT when they were going to start using the belt drive. The reply that I received was that they would not ever use a belt drive. And here we are, 13 years later, and they have joined the sane ones. I have truly enjoyed my Rohloff hub with belt drive bicycle.
Great review of an bike that is obviously a the best in the expedition long travel self supporting bike touring segment. Personally I have been exploring Pinion Gates frames that would be for single day and overnight trips but with 27.5 plus wheels to handle various loose off-road conditions. I’m excited to see the bicycle industry growing and developing all types of bikes for various wants and needs.
Did you find one? I'd like a decent belt-drive hub-gear bike but I don't do world tours like alee - just a few days at a time, in Europe mostly on tarmac, but the problem with my existing frame is that it's no good on the occaisional dirt surface cos it can't take a tyre biger than 32mm. Seems to me that one ought to be able to do this for a lot less then 5000€.
Excellent review. Great communication skills your passion really comes through in your voice. I just did a mini trip around Fort Myers Florida and stayed at some airbnb's. Nothing at the levels you do but at least it's something. Know that you are appreciated in the RUclips Community. A lot of times people give me a hard time because I Tour on aluminum bike. I just smile and respond back when you're under 165 lb it's amazing what you can get away with.😁😁😁😁
@@Cyclingabout you bet back at you actually I was introduced to your channel by somebody who stayed at my house off of a reciprocal Hospitality cycling site.
I would love to see a review of the cinq trigger shifters for rohloff hubs ! I’m really interested but not sure about its reliability... great video anyway, as usual.
I saw one of these bikes on the TCT Canada this year 2022 it is the dogs bits, a Rolls Royce of touring bikes ,paint job ,the welds just a joy to see !
Thanks for your informative video! Been hoping for years that belt drives and internal gearing would become more standard. When I retire, those are two things I want on my 'dream bike'.
Your videos have been really inspiring. Awaiting the delivery of the Tout Terrain Blueridge bike with Rolhoff Plus. I’m looking forward to travelling the world soon on my new baby.
@@floppie88 So far, I love it, but I can't give you a proper review as yet. It's winter here in France and I'm waiting for the good weather. The plan is to tour all of France little by little before tackling Europe and beyond. Have only done about 100km, without luggage, over several rides. We are still under Covid restrictions. I'll get back to you after my first tour in spring. Am hoping to tackle either Normandy or Brittany.
@@MrHombre67 Thanks for your feedback! I will testdrive the bike once covid restrictions will allow it. Hopefully soon. Enjoy your future bike adventures!
@@floppie88 I have just cycled 1800 km on my Blueridge. Two things that I noticed. Had a lot of difficulty with the drop bars. After a week I had terrible neck pain. Had to ask a shop to raise the handlebars and I shifted the seat forward a bit. Conclusion. Drop handlebars would not be a first choice if I had to buy again. Second thing. After two weeks the gates drive was making an annoying scraping sound. Only thing that resolved it was water and a toothbrush or just water itself. Oh. One more thing. It's really heavy. All that said. it's an extremely comfortable, confident machine.
Talk to Surly about making something similar with a little more tire clearance and integrated fenders, that will bring the price down a bit. This bike is the Earthroamer Expidition RV of touring bikes, now we need a "mass market" version.
very good review. Probably one of the world most efficient « randonnée lointaine » bike ! Concerning the video presentation, I do like the way you are behind the bike as a voice off. It permits to capture all the information. instead of certain journalists speaking and speaking for minutes in front of the camera.
I bought a new Koga WTS last month. I have considered Tout Terrain bikes as well, but Koga offers a life time warranty on the frame, where Tout Terrain seems to limit it to 3 years (extended to 5 if you register quickly after purchase). On the paintwork Koga offers 10 years guarantee, Tour Terrain just 2. Imho such service and warranty aspects don't get enough attention in reviews. The two main differences between the bikes are the integrated rear rack and the steering lock mechanism on the TT. Personally I'm not a fan of the integrated rear rack. True, there is one less point of failure, but it's quite rare to break a quality rack these days. However, *if* the rack breaks, you'd have to find a skilled welder AND you need to have the entire frame repainted afterwards. If a custom rack breaks, you simply repair or replace the rack. The Koga has a built in steering limiter - ruclips.net/video/djw2ZDim_cM/видео.html - which is enough to comfortably use the rear kick stand with mounted lowriders in front. That being said, the TT still is a quality bike of course.
I own the first generation purchased in 2010. It's a wonderful bike but I would love some of the improvements mentioned here. In particular, through axles, front fork lock, belt drive, and that outstanding pannier rear rack interface. Fantastic!
Some people say I would rather buy a motorcycle for this price. Actually if you buy this bicycle you can enjoy it a life long with very little maintenance costs. The only thing I don't like on the frame of this TT bike is the integrated rear rack, upgrading to some new panniers is something you do more often and its nice to fit by that time if necessary also upgraded racks. I own a Santos Travelmaster3+ for my daily commuting, short weekends and longer holidays, love my Santos. And yes it cost me the price of a small car, but it does not use any fuel and gives me lifetime pleasure.
Thanks for your feedback Chris! Our integrated racks are made of stainless steel - the rigidity and durability, along with the ability to add the extra rails, is in our opinion ultimate rack solution. No need to upgrade later on ;)
I'm surprised the Silkroad frame doesn't come standard with S&S Couplers. It's so much easier to pack up a bike for airplane travel once it's been split in half.
4 года назад+4
Hey, great video. Take a look at the Falkenjagd Hoplit Pi Plus (or the Rennstahl steel equivalent). That's a ... I have no words.
4:56 I had to rewatch this part again to believe my eyes. You are a really brave man to not get off the bike while going through that section. one slip of wheel you are at the bottom of that clif.
Yes you can tour on just about any bike but for those that can part with the $$$ this bike will make the experience better although not $6000 better IMO 😄
I have a small dog who is unfortunately dying now. But I was about to go on a hikebike with her through Europe when Corona stroke. However - I and many dog owners like me look for a easy way to travel with dogs and therefore I decided to build a cargo bike on my own. There is however already some very lightweight cargo bikes that one should be able to go on a tour with. The four most interesting of those are The Bullitt (Larry vs Harry), Elian Cycles Cargo bike, The Maniac and Sane cargo bikes and finally the Catan Cargo Bike. It would be very interesting to se a touring bike analysis on these or other cargo bikes.
I think the frameset seems quite good value. It’s more _useful_ than _interesting_ maybe but I’d love to see more about the Cinq, alternatives and how you can route generators and cables.
Thank you ! Another very well explained and detailed video of the details and intricacies ...that makes up a real ...WORLD touring bicycle , Your video , has created two things, first it created another argument in favour of spending in excess of 6000$ , for a touring bicycle, ....second your video created another competitor of bike builders from which to chose from.
Recently purchased a hardly used TT Metropolitan with Rohloff hub and dynamo hub, lights, USB charger, stand etc. It's not a quick bike, but it's so comfy that I call it my "Happy Bike", on account I just don't care about my speed as I'm more preoccupied with the scenery and what's going on.
So alee is this your next tourer?? Awesome bike, along with your koga, another great bike. The TT has been in my list for awhile. I picked up an MTBCYCLETECH tourer which I love
HI Alee, always nice to look at what’s around. How about a review/opinion of the Vivente WR and how it compares to its more expensive competitors in functionality.
Forgive me if I'm confused here, and I can't find a way to search the comments to see if this issue has been addressed but... (and this is the Internet so there's always a butt..) In the graph of dynamo hub drag and efficiency the more efficient hub with the lesser drag is labeled Shimano and the more draggy and inefficient hub is labeled Schmidt. The voice-over is claiming greater efficiency for the Schmidt hub. I'm not complaining about anything I just am confused.
The labelling is correct. The drag is substantially lower (dotted line) for the Schmidt SON28 than the other hubs, but it does have slightly less power output too (solid line). When we compare the amount of drag for the power generated we get the hub's efficiency (60.2% on Schmidt SON28, 39.8% on Shimano UR700).
@@Cyclingabout I see it now. With your encouragement I focused on the individual lines of data and (in my mind) painstakingly resolved where I was messed-up. Your reviews are awesome but, your even tempered and concise answers to viewer questions is where the value is. I will never be able to justify owning one of these bikes or even a bike close to this level but I will always spend the time to watch your videos. Thank you!
You're welcome! I figure people can extract additional information from the comments section, so it's always worth investing time into responding to everyone. 😁
More mudguard clearance would be useful. A clagged up mudguard can stop a bike. An anti theft GPS locator linked to a phone would be desirable. Lovely bike and would need an expert bike mechanic to put it together properly to be reliable in use.
The mudguards can easily be spaced out further if you need, and Tout Terrain can do this from the factory. I recommend an expert mechanic to assemble any bike!
That pannier system with Ortlieb looks fantastic. I've been looking all over Tout Terrain's website, however, and still can't find them. Do they come with the bike?
@@arsenalchamp It'll be best to contact Tout Terrain directly, as I don't remember seeing them in the configurator a few months ago (they might be now?).
Have a toot terrain Tanami, belt and Rohloff. Done about 4000 km to date. Carry some 45 kg on it as I have my small dog on the back rack, very stable and nice ride heavy loaded. Generally a very nice bike, don't care about the fixed rack though, limits options and the steering lock broke after a couple of weeks. It can easily be dismounted though so not a problem.
Great to hear you enjoy the Tanami Johan! After some feedback we redesigned our steering lock, and the Ergo Stop II Plus is a more robust design than version one as it uses a bolt-on CNC'd aluminum collar.
@@toutterrainbikes it probably works for most people, but heavy loaded front (say 15 kg) puts a lot of torque on the locks small radius through the leverage. I put a cheap traditional elastomer between the fork and the down tube, it keeps the wheel stable enough on a double kickstand and it basically can't break...
I loved to get one but with your type of handlebar ...Alee handlebar...or I can't remember the name but I met a Belgium couple during my ride last spring in Shimanami Kaido , Japan.. the guy is using your handle bar. Where can I buy the bike as I am in Malaysia? If it can be available in UK , I may also consider when I get there to start my ride after the pandemic hopefully. Thanks mate. Always awesome videos you made ... riding as well as equipment review.
Hi! Thank you very much for the video! As always it is interesting and full of necessary information. I came into the bike touring world about a year ago without ANY knowledge and started researching the field (with a lot of knowledge from your videos), about the bike i have chosen it is the brand VFS fahrradmanufaktur. I found this brand very durable, high standard qualitie made, and compering to othet brands it is very affordable. the thing is that there is lack of information (a specially in youtube) about VFS and i think it will be quit helpful to make a video about this brand. Wating for your next videos 🙏
As a frame builder who has built aluminum frames for 20 years, I can tell you that it is not really any harder to cut out an aluminum top tube and weld in a new one, than steel. I did like your comment about the reliability of hydraulic brakes, you know there is this myth that they are unreliable, and that mechanical brakes are less problematic.
High end, lovely bike, for sure and a great review, thanks. Deep dive achieved! Clear and entertaining video, as ever. But I have an issue with the title. Here's why it isn't worth $6300. Frame is 4130 (1:44) so nothing special there and at this point, I would expect made to measure, which it is not. For about HALF this price, you can buy a Thorn Nomad, with a very similar steel frame and material with a choice of colour and ten sizes, without the integrated rack and fancy bag attachment (really necessary?), SON dynamo, yes connected with a wire - no big deal, various rim types and sizes to suit your needs, disc brakes, finishing kit etc etc. Where has the money gone? The frame is $1700, Rohloff $1200, Son $250, Edelux $150, wheels $300, finishing kit $750? This totals $4600.......?
Thanks! I've just checked, the price of the Thorn Nomad MK3 with a Rohloff/belt and rear rack is within 1000 euros of the equivalent Silkroad - and the spec isn't quite as nice. The Thorn is a great bike for the price, but it's definitely not half the price.
I think it said it was heat-treated 4130 which is exactly the same as Reynolds 725 and not much different to Reynolds 853 (which is more likely to be available in those huge sizes). It doesn't get more high end than that until you're into the stainless tubes which aren't sized for this kind of bike. With the custom rack plus all the other braze-ons and bit and pieces and Taiwan manufacture I don't think $1700 is unreasonable for the frame. The other components cost what they cost and they seem to have a range available. Expensive certainly but a nice bike.
@@michaellovric9975 Yes I liked the look of those welds. Whoever did it used a decent amount of filler rod and they will be strong AF. A lot of frames these days have superficially very neat-looking welds but with a somewhat concave profile and even some undercut sometimes. This comes from using the "pulse and laywire" technique but I don't think it's as reliable.
Very interested in comparisons. FWIW - My intro to "adventure cycling" was seeing a picture of a Salsa Vaya in some far-off, mountainous land. My heart said "I want to do THAT". I saved for 2 years and bought one. It took me on many many adventures even if it wasn't perfect for the job. I loved it. I've been looking for a replacement since it was stolen recently. I've been thinking about doing the American Rockies (north to south) next year. Is your impression that this bike would be good for it, or would you much rather have something like your Koga? (And, was this vid sponsored?)
It really depends on the terrain. The KOGA WTS can fit 2.4-2.6" tyres, so anything majority dirt roads will definitely fall in its favour! But if you're riding on smoother surfaces, you won't find many differences between the bikes as they use 90%+ the same parts, and both have very well engineered touring frames with a similar geometry.
All those high quality Parts are also made in Germany. They seem to always be top in the line , be it automotive, industry or even now bicycle (ebike) tech...huge
Great touring bike but I am not so keen on the integrated rear rack. As you would struggle when flying to pack your bike into a solid bike box such as the Bikebox Alan or the Buxumbox. You would have to rely on a cardboard box from a bike shop if you can get one big enough.
CYCLINGABOUT great news. I am holding back on buying the Deveron. Big outlay for what is basically just a pushbike. Getting hold of anything at the moment is unlikely anyway. Thanks for the reply. I enjoy your videos and have learned a lot. If you are ever in East Anglia in the UK, (North Norfolk Coast), give me a bell. There is always a spare bed, a meal and a shower.
1:53 orange bike with fork suspension: what bike is that? I think it might be good taking a touring bike steel frame and adding fork suspension, custom handlebar for comfort, mountain bike tyres.
Would love to hear your review of the Santos Travelmaster 3+ from the Netherlands. Really enjoy and appreciate the quality and the amount of research you put in your video.
Alee, what can you tell about the scientia a2 youre using? I've been thinking in one of these for a long time, for my measurements I should take A1 (105mm isqueos) but I have have always ride 135mm saddles, should I take the a2 or m1 or should I believe selle royal e go for a1? Also, loving your vídeos and instagram! Best regards
Terrific content as usual. One quibble- lowering the CG helps when the bike is stationary and you trying to hold it upright because it gives more leverage against the panniers. Once one is riding and therefore balancing, and higher cg is easier to balance and more stable.
When travelling in a straight line, a high centre of gravity is fine. But with your centre of gravity low, you can lean further to one side or the other without creating enough turning force to tip you over. I cannot think of many situations where a higher centre of gravity would be beneficial.
Riding both bicycles and motorcycles, I prefer a low CG. Not that important on a bicycle, but you're more free to move around on top and it's also easier when you're crawling at half the speed a human moves (necessary skill to pass riding test in Switzerland).
It would been perfect if there was a Pinion 18 speed gearbox and S&S Couplers Agree the frame build is different. Since there is a competition with Co-Motion Pangea, I am still 80-20 favorable to Co-Motion. Just these 2 option would make it optimal.
If I save $100 per week, I think I can afford to buy this bike in a year? Whoa. I started this adventure in 2022 trying to find an ebike but now manual seems to be the way to go! I am in love!
My cycle buddy has a tout terrain blue ridge GT. Wow! It doesn't look anything special until you start looking. The only down side is you don't get a choice on gearing. It is supplied with a 19 tooth rear sprocket. So will have to change it to 22 teeth before she gets near Yorkshire.
Opinion of the Salsa Blackborow Expedition/Touring bike or the similar Big Dummy cargo bikes. Both bikes would be on road or 'light' gravel. Thanks. Great videos.
Good question. Pinions weight more, hard to say if the better weight distribution counteracts this. Old school of thought says lighter bikes are easier to cycle uphill
5:24 In bad conditions, the chain/belt that drives the hub also has some loss in efficiency, so it would be difficult to decide which is more efficient without actually testing it.
I've tested the drivetrain drag with a friend in a very unscientific way. By flipping the bikes upside down and spinning the cranks, we found the belt/Rohloff drivetrain to have less noticeable resistance in the conditions we were riding in, compared to when both drivetrains were perfectly clean and spinning about as freely.
Yes very nice but its excellence is negated by wondering whether it'll get nicked wherever you park it up! Im between getting either a expensive custom made tourer [4- 5k] or adapting a 90's MTB you might find in a skip...😁
If you consider what 3k buys you, this is perhaps a logical price point but I'm not wealthy enough to consider it, and I'm not that poor. I do think for long-distance touring I'd go with a Rohloff hub and gates belt. I did my first bad-weather, muddy tour recently with no chance to stop, and my newly installed components got damaged and it made horrible noises.
Very nice new brand I am discovering, thanks to yo Alee ! Could we have an insight on the differences between the 8 models listed on the Expedition page of Tout Terrain? Lost under all this choice, with apparently no explanation for first visitors. And by the way, I would love to see one of those bikes confiburable with the Koga Alee bars!
I am trying to get into touring. What is your view on the Trek 520 or 920 speced with a dynamo hub lighting and charging alongwith the supplied racks? Thank You.
There is one feature that I have not seen offered. Back in 1984, (before most of you were alive,) I had bought a Nishiki Serale. (I'm probably spelling that wrong), I had really liked that touring bike. It had on the handle bars, about 1/4" to maybe 3/8" like foam rubber. For long rides this added crushing helped a lot on my hands. Today I suffer from nerve damage in mostly my left hand, and I'm constantly moving/shifting my hands to reduce the tingling. Another change that came about is in the tire pumps. They used to have a Long Aluminium tire pump that was very reliable, & pumped up your tire MUCH faster than the garbage pumps sold today. Which often brake down. The Koga, and the Silk road, sound like a dream! But with what they are charging, I'd have to put the wife in the garage, & the bike in bed with me!
Thanks for the interesting videos. A whole bew world! I've seen you tackle some quite rough terrain, but your bikes have no suspension. Is it because of their effect on efficiency? Is it because of the need of som quite heavy suspension to support a heavely loaded bike? Are there other reasons? Should a daily commute bike have suspension, in your opinion? Thanks in advance!
Suspension forks need regular servicing to work well. Usually every 50-100 hours of cycling. I do that much cycling in just a few weeks, so I need the most simple set up possible. When you load up the front of a bike, it is actually quite smooth to ride anyway... I don't think a bike in an urban environment needs suspension. 😎
@@Cyclingabout Many thanks for the reply! I suppose one can slap on some suspension on a bike to sell it easier to someone like me, who doesn't know what he's buying. :) Noticed that there also isn't much discussion about electric bikes. Is that also something that might not be as beneficial as marketed? It sure seems that it'd be nice to have some assistance while climbing steep hills, in head wind, with heavy luggage.
@@dempa3 I don't really discuss eBikes because touring and bikepacking is more my wheelhouse. But I generally think eBikes are awesome - especially if they open up the experience of cycling to a broader audience.
Another great review, Alee! I really like the look and the innovative details of that bike. But the price tag is indeed hefty and I would expect a multi-purpose bike for 6k. You are mentioning a maximum tire width of 2.1. How does that compare to your Yoga WT? Where are the limits of the Silkroad with these tires? Are there any? After all, ToutTerrain calls it a bike for world travellers, so I expect that it is pretty versatile, no?
The KOGA WTS is basically a hybrid between the TT Silkroad and Outback. The KOGA will fit a 2.5" tyre with fenders, and a touch more without. Tyre volume is the main factor that determines how rough terrain you can ride. 2.3-2.6" is common on mountain bikes, so where a mountain bike can go, a KOGA WTS (or TT Outback) can go.
Very nice, but there are two or three deal breakers here that would stop me dead purchasing one of these. In my opinion and personal experience a welded steel frame is simply not as sturdy as a soldered frame. To weld steel tubing it has to be heated beyond its melting point ruining and weakening the grain structure along both sides of the weld bead increasing the danger of frame failure at these places. Soldering or brazing using a silver-copper alloy heats the tubing to only 400 degree C and also reinforces the exact places frames tend to fail. Disk brakes are really hard on spokes. And the more weight they have to stop the bike with worse that becomes. Also, if you take your bike with you on a flight, disks can easily end up bent and buckled because of bad luggage handling. Good luck finding replacements, say, in Peru or Turkey. I've never been a friend of hydraulic brakes. Not just because it's unnecessarily complicated technology for a simple function, but also, if they fail in said Peru or Turkey or even just in Spain or Greece you are in trouble. Sure, I've been reassured by loads of people just how reliable they are, but nothing is that reliable. They might be good a hundred times, it only takes once for them to fail, and when that happens somewhere in Turkey I want to know I can fix it. You simply won't find anyone in Turkey able to fix hydraulic brakes, but every village there will have someone who can help you fix the good old fashioned ones. I've met two cyclists on my tours who were stuck with damaged hydraulic brakes, I'm making sure I don't joint them. BTW, I've also never had to set my brakes on any of my tours.
Thanks for your detailed feedback! We use high-grade heat-treated chromoly, skilled framebuilders, and a rigorous quality contrcol process, and as Alee pointed out in the video, our frames have been tested to the absolute highest stress tests available in the industry, so we're extremely confident in the strength of our frames. We do also offer mechanical disc brakes for those who prefer the simplicity of those systems.
Does the integrated rear rack present any difficulty when packing into a bike box ? I guess if you take off both the front and rear wheels, you would get it in ok.
Hello Alee, I was interested in your special designed Denham touring handle bar. I recall that you mentioned that it is preferable to have a long stem so that the hand positions are in the front arc. This means that I should have at minimum a 120mm long stem and better still 130mm?
Who makes the steering limiter lock and the kickstand? FYI It is not rigidity which makes the wheels last It is toughness. The increased wall section rims would not measure as significantly stiffer but they would take significantly more energy not force to deflect them. A small but important distinction that all but an engineer wouldn't understand.
The limiter is proprietory to Tout Terrain. The kickstand is by Atran Velo. The Andra rims are significantly stiffer - I've broken 20% of the spokes on an Andra wheel and it was still running very straight.
beautiful bike. But there are a number of manufacturers easily on par and probably exceeding TT for features and arguably quality. Idworx, Santos are two that come to mind.
Have you seen the offerings from Robert Beckman Designs? Or Bilenky? Or Co-Motion? Or countless custom frame builders? The steering stop is a neat little addition but I'm not sold on the integrated racks.
Hi Alee - I'd like to know your opinions on Tout Terrain's e-bike models - and more generally, perhaps, on what to look for in high-end electric touring bikes. As 58-year-old cyclist, I really appreciate - meaning, I heavily depend upon - the extra power of pedal assistance, particularly on long, steep hills... Not to mention the convenience of extra speed on my daily commute. The experience of e-biking in the past could of years has inspired me to get back to the kind of adventurous cycle-touring I last attempted over 20 years ago, but of course, my little folding commuter e-bike isn't up to the task - and I need to think very carefully before investing heavily in a proper touring rig. Have you ridden or tested any touring e-bikes? If not, I'm sure some of the top manufacturers, such as Tout Terrain and others, would be more than happy to send you their best e-bikes to put through their paces... And I guess quite a lot of your viewers would be very interested to hear what have to say, when you've done so!
I don't know a lot about eBikes, but everything I do know is written here: www.cyclingabout.com/bicycle-touring-on-electric-bikes-ebikes/ Hopefully, in the next few years, I'll set up a home base and play around with some ebikes. It's hard when you're always on the move!
@@Cyclingabout Thanks for this, your article on ebikes is very thorough and informative. FYI, though, your links to Gijs Stevers go to a domain that now seems to belong to someone named Robert Hora, who writes random dodgy articles about pickup techniques, bitcoin investing and finding good divorce lawyers - but nothing at all about bikes!
Investigate the Priority 600x which also uses the Gates belt drive and enclosed drive train enginered by former Porsche employees at 1/3 the cost. Built in the States but also have a wait time.
![CHILE vs. BRASIL [1-2] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 9](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5ObJt_71AYc/mqdefault.jpg)
That bike is pretty much a wish list of everything you would want in a bike. Plus the added bonus that you get to offset the weight of the bike with a much lighter wallet. They really have thought of everything.
Haha... a very light wallet indeed. 😂
Agreed. Very cool. The only "Dream option" I've been thinking of would be a 100w (ish) internal seat-tube mounted e-bike motor combined with a downtube battery charged by the hub. Granted, from what I've read so far this would almost double the cost of this already not-cheap bike.
@@ianfurqueron5850 I don't think a dynamo charger is the way to go, unfortunately. Dynamo hubs can charge a 5000mAh battery in about 7.5 hours of riding. Ebike batteries are 10-30x bigger than a powerbank, so you'd need to ride for 75-225 hours to get a full battery charge!
@@Cyclingabout part of the issue is I'm not thinking about a current ebike type battery. That's not what I want it for. Note I only said a 100w motor - less than half a typical e-bike motor. I don't envision the motor being used a lot. More like just a little boost to get a loaded bike over the crest of a long climb. 99% of the time it would be disengaged from the bottom bracket. So the battery wouldn't need to be quite as large. Plus, my thought is to have that battery replace the stem version in this bike.
@@ianfurqueron5850 By my napkin calculations, you might get 1-2km of assistance up a hill on a 100w motor per 7.5 hours of dynamo hub charging (17km/h for 128km). I suspect you'd actually be faster by not carrying a motor and battery, and not having the drag associated with the dynamo! Solar charging is probably the only way to generate enough charge for it to be worthwhile.
Seems amazing but slightly overpriced.
By the way Alee, after watching your videos, I have purchased my first touring bike, and it's a Vivente Anatolia! Thank you for the recommendation sir
That's awesome! Congrats on the new ride.
had a look at the Vivente Anatolia specifications and it appears to be a good touring bike . I ride a recumbent touring bike and I will never go back to sitting on a fence post holding my upper body weight on my hands or holding my head up to see where I am going. So one of these days when your body starts to object to all the things you felt were normal before , at least you have an option for comfort to continue to ride and tour!
yes it is expensive, but I wouldn't say overpriced. I think it's reasonably priced, given all the expensive gadgets! nice bike Anatolia
A month ago I bought a Tout Terrain Tanami with rohloff/gates. I literally rolled it out the door of the shop and rode it on a 1000mile tour from Melbourne to Sydney. Making plans for my next tour real soon!
That's awesome, congrats!
Where can you get it from,thanx?
Which shop? looking for a decent bike shop in Australia..
This is truly a no-compromise touring/commuting bike. It is too expensive for me (the most expensive version, but there are others also in there that are a lot more affordable), but it is lovely to see that there are options like these pushing the boundaries and I am certain that for some people this makes a lot of sense (it can be a car alternative for many). I wonder when we will get bikes where you have a plug in option to add an electric motor or take it out.
Hi Alee, just recieved my silkroad 27.5. Absolutely love it. Almost identical to ur video except I got Brooks ergo grips n jones h bars. Thanks to Damian for all his help.
That's awesome, congrats!
I love it! That bike has everything to get you well on your way! This is a whole segment of biking that I never thought of until I started watching your videos. Thanks for covering ALL of the important details!
I'm glad I can introduce you to the fancy bikes of my world!
Loving the content as of late Alee! You are really hitting the sweet spot on RUclips in the bike packing/touring community, your content is really well produced, you know your stuff and its presented wonderfully I always enjoy watching your vids to the end. You've definitely inspred me to hit up areas in my neck of the woods on my bike. Hoping to see more of the collabs with other brands, maybe something from Salsa, Surly or Santos perhaps? Take care and am looking forward to the next video!
My thoughts exactly.
I'm in Canada and thinking I might need one of these if the American start their second civil war. Basically, I see this as the best travel option in a Mad Max world.
You'll just need to fit a pair of 50 cals and a grenade launcher!
@@rolandmatters1619 Those don't come standard?
Horses bro.... Horses they feed themself and direct you to water when thete thirsty and can hold more weight and are faster than bikes or finding bike parts good luck
Won’t be much of a civil war since one side has all the guns.
Eric Johnson : yep. And the other side has all the brains. We also have guns 😚
The Tout terrain frame geometry is similar to modern road bikes, and they offer some models with cinq drop bar shifters, so if thats your thing, go for it. Koga miyata offers a stiffer down tube and rear triangle so a weighty rider will feel a difference. Former MTB riders could find Rennstahl geometry more suitable. If steel is real for you, check out Patria Fahrräder, their frames look just a notch better in this segment, and you can spec them as wished. Some more aluminum reccomendations: Idworx, Santos, Simplon, Maxx cycles. If you want something on a "budget", but still the best value, check out VSF T900 and TX1200.
My ultimate dream bike is the Silkroad Xplore II 275 loaded. Of course I'm gonna have to travel to Freiburg to pick it up and test tour it around Europe. Thanks for this Alee. Your shot @ 4min56sec got my adrenaline pumping!
You're welcome. Freiburg is my favourite city in Germany! Totally worth the visit. 😎
You had me at "steering lock".
My touring bike (Boskey Overlander) has this mount for a spring to attach from the bottom tube to the fork to try and do the same thing... not great execution, it scratches against the mudguards. This steering lock on the other hand is awesome.
Why in the world would anyone need a "steering lock"?
@@Gyvulys So your handlebars don't flop around when you lean the bike against something, causing the whole thing to come crashing down. No idea why they aren't standard on good bikes.
@@RobMacKendrick Do you know a thing called kickstand? Also, you don't "lean your bike on something" on a slope...
@@Gyvulys Gosh, I've only been riding a week, so you must be right!
A couple of years back I almost bought a Tout Terrain (5th Avenue, irrc). However, they had just introduced a new configurator and it did not work properly for weeks. This and the slightly lower price tipped the scale towards Patria (the Randonneur model). Lugged Zona tubes, Rohloff, SON hub and headlight. To me, the Edelux II is the bike's most impressive aspect, it is _almost_ perfect to go really fast at night.
For how expensive they are you see quite many Patrias in German cities, though I think Tout Terrain is more innovative.
1:01 forget about replacing a steel tube, they make special blocks that you can clamp to the frame to squeeze out dents. Besides, a dent isn't going to affect steel like it would aluminum.
A pair of wood blocks with half of a hole of the appropriate size work just as well as the official aluminum blocks. It only works with round tubes and will take the paint off even when you use lots of grease.
WoW! Thank you so much for this detailed overview of a brand I have never heard of! I am currently in the market for a new bike and all of your videos are extremely helpful in the decision making process. Now if only there wasn't a shortage of bikes due to disrupted supply chains I could be back on two wheels again!
4:58 Ive just shat myself!
Beautiful bike, they thought of everything a bike tourer would need.
I have just specked my silkroad. Rollhoff, belt ,smidht dynamo Jones bar, 27.5 andre rims. Green ofcourse. Thanks alee . It was between this and the koga world traveller but eventually I had to choose. Thanks to Damian Bradley for all your help and patience at tout terrain. Very good service and advice. Cant wait to get the beast home .
@@robertpask2897 why got you over the line compared to the Koga?
@@robertpask2897 have you got it
Suggestion for your next bike review: Falkenjagd Hoplit Pi
As a lifelong cyclist and motorcyclist this is amazing. I've owned BMW class-leading motorcycle adventure / touring bikes for the past 20 yrs and this is most impressive in terms of thinking of everything you need without adding the things you don't need. When I consider the price. Amazing. This is a bargain esp. if you consider the motorcycle equivalent is $30-40K.
Very interesting this new model of the Silk Road. I test-drove some Tout Terrain and found them very well made. The integrated rear carrier is typical of TT. Talking about other bikes: I have a Locomotive Cycles, Italian brand (as me), which is a “monster cross” or “adventure” bike, inox frame, quadruple butted, sloping, similar geometry to Salsa Fargo, can accomodate a lot of different wheel (I have three sets with 28” 30mm tyres, 29” 2.1” tyres, 27.5+ with 3” tyres), alternator drop-outs, elliptical wheel hub (you can rotate it). Unluckily it does not accommodate carbon rim because it doesn’t have opening on the rear. It has been designed with bike packing in mind, but you can fit further bags. I have Lauf fork in front. - perhaps you may test one of these bikes?
This content is off the charts. Every video is so well done and so very informative.
Glad you like them!
Years ago when I purchased by Pan Americana bicycle, I asked TT when they were going to start using the belt drive. The reply that I received was that they would not ever use a belt drive. And here we are, 13 years later, and they have joined the sane ones. I have truly enjoyed my Rohloff hub with belt drive bicycle.
Great review of an bike that is obviously a the best in the expedition long travel self supporting bike touring segment. Personally I have been exploring Pinion Gates frames that would be for single day and overnight trips but with 27.5 plus wheels to handle various loose off-road conditions. I’m excited to see the bicycle industry growing and developing all types of bikes for various wants and needs.
Did you find one? I'd like a decent belt-drive hub-gear bike but I don't do world tours like alee - just a few days at a time, in Europe mostly on tarmac, but the problem with my existing frame is that it's no good on the occaisional dirt surface cos it can't take a tyre biger than 32mm. Seems to me that one ought to be able to do this for a lot less then 5000€.
@@xxwookey Shimano and some other companies make gear hubs. The German company Roloff is probably one of the best brands but they’re expensive.
Excellent review. Great communication skills your passion really comes through in your voice. I just did a mini trip around Fort Myers Florida and stayed at some airbnb's. Nothing at the levels you do but at least it's something. Know that you are appreciated in the RUclips Community. A lot of times people give me a hard time because I Tour on aluminum bike. I just smile and respond back when you're under 165 lb it's amazing what you can get away with.😁😁😁😁
Thanks for the kind words, John! I am passionate about bikes and adventure travel, that's for sure. 😅
@@Cyclingabout you bet back at you actually I was introduced to your channel by somebody who stayed at my house off of a reciprocal Hospitality cycling site.
This must be the most complete off the shelf touring bike available now. I can't imagine what else can be modified here to improve it further
If you think of anything, let us know :)
@@toutterrainbikes Some anti-theft or alarm on a $6,000+ bike.
A side car. your welcome;)
@@johngury They have that.
@@toutterrainbikes Drop bar version with Rohloff and Rohbox shifting system paired with a Schlumpf Mtn Drive setup with the lowest gear ratio allowed.
I would love to see a review of the cinq trigger shifters for rohloff hubs ! I’m really interested but not sure about its reliability... great video anyway, as usual.
I saw one of these bikes on the TCT Canada this year 2022 it is the dogs bits, a Rolls Royce of touring bikes ,paint job ,the welds just a joy to see !
Thanks for your informative video! Been hoping for years that belt drives and internal gearing would become more standard. When I retire, those are two things I want on my 'dream bike'.
Your videos have been really inspiring. Awaiting the delivery of the Tout Terrain Blueridge bike with Rolhoff Plus. I’m looking forward to travelling the world soon on my new baby.
Also thinking about ordering the blueridge, how do you like your bike?
@@floppie88 So far, I love it, but I can't give you a proper review as yet. It's winter here in France and I'm waiting for the good weather. The plan is to tour all of France little by little before tackling Europe and beyond.
Have only done about 100km, without luggage, over several rides. We are still under Covid restrictions. I'll get back to you after my first tour in spring. Am hoping to tackle either Normandy or Brittany.
@@MrHombre67 Thanks for your feedback!
I will testdrive the bike once covid restrictions will allow it. Hopefully soon.
Enjoy your future bike adventures!
@@floppie88 I have just cycled 1800 km on my Blueridge. Two things that I noticed. Had a lot of difficulty with the drop bars. After a week I had terrible neck pain. Had to ask a shop to raise the handlebars and I shifted the seat forward a bit. Conclusion. Drop handlebars would not be a first choice if I had to buy again. Second thing. After two weeks the gates drive was making an annoying scraping sound. Only thing that resolved it was water and a toothbrush or just water itself. Oh. One more thing. It's really heavy. All that said. it's an extremely comfortable, confident machine.
Talk to Surly about making something similar with a little more tire clearance and integrated fenders, that will bring the price down a bit. This bike is the Earthroamer Expidition RV of touring bikes, now we need a "mass market" version.
very good review. Probably one of the world most efficient « randonnée lointaine » bike ! Concerning the video presentation, I do like the way you are behind the bike as a voice off. It permits to capture all the information. instead of certain journalists speaking and speaking for minutes in front of the camera.
Thanks! One of my aims of this video was to maximise the shots of the bike so you could see every detail. I'm glad you liked it!
Oh man! Just when I was about to buy a Koga World Traveler, this review drops and I’m totally going to have to go back to the drawing board.
I bought a new Koga WTS last month. I have considered Tout Terrain bikes as well, but Koga offers a life time warranty on the frame, where Tout Terrain seems to limit it to 3 years (extended to 5 if you register quickly after purchase). On the paintwork Koga offers 10 years guarantee, Tour Terrain just 2. Imho such service and warranty aspects don't get enough attention in reviews.
The two main differences between the bikes are the integrated rear rack and the steering lock mechanism on the TT. Personally I'm not a fan of the integrated rear rack. True, there is one less point of failure, but it's quite rare to break a quality rack these days. However, *if* the rack breaks, you'd have to find a skilled welder AND you need to have the entire frame repainted afterwards. If a custom rack breaks, you simply repair or replace the rack.
The Koga has a built in steering limiter - ruclips.net/video/djw2ZDim_cM/видео.html - which is enough to comfortably use the rear kick stand with mounted lowriders in front.
That being said, the TT still is a quality bike of course.
Is your koga lighter than the TT ? Did you compare ?
@@mariamartins367 also wondering about the weight differnce
I own the first generation purchased in 2010. It's a wonderful bike but I would love some of the improvements mentioned here. In particular, through axles, front fork lock, belt drive, and that outstanding pannier rear rack interface. Fantastic!
man I am with you, nd good luck to both if us test riding, and acquiring any of these today. or tomorrow. maybe in two years?
Some people say I would rather buy a motorcycle for this price. Actually if you buy this bicycle you can enjoy it a life long with very little maintenance costs.
The only thing I don't like on the frame of this TT bike is the integrated rear rack, upgrading to some new panniers is something you do more often and its nice to fit by that time if necessary also upgraded racks.
I own a Santos Travelmaster3+ for my daily commuting, short weekends and longer holidays, love my Santos. And yes it cost me the price of a small car, but it does not use any fuel and gives me lifetime pleasure.
Thanks for your feedback Chris! Our integrated racks are made of stainless steel - the rigidity and durability, along with the ability to add the extra rails, is in our opinion ultimate rack solution. No need to upgrade later on ;)
I'm surprised the Silkroad frame doesn't come standard with S&S Couplers. It's so much easier to pack up a bike for airplane travel once it's been split in half.
Hey, great video. Take a look at the Falkenjagd Hoplit Pi Plus (or the Rennstahl steel equivalent). That's a ... I have no words.
4:56 I had to rewatch this part again to believe my eyes. You are a really brave man to not get off the bike while going through that section. one slip of wheel you are at the bottom of that clif.
I was thinking the same, however I do believe the camera lens makes the cliff deceptively closer than it might actually be.
..and I was thinking the same too
I was all ready to type in "are you mad?" in the comments but after seeing all the innovative features I don't think the price is out of line.
No thanks, I'll ride my $150 WalMart bike and go to the same places this bike will. It will just a little longer.
Yes you can tour on just about any bike but for those that can part with the $$$ this bike will make the experience better although not $6000 better IMO 😄
Next bike/brand test? Santos.
Made in Taiwan is a must for any high end bikes. Anything that’s above $1000 must be made in Taiwan. This is the best touring bike ever..
I have a small dog who is unfortunately dying now. But I was about to go on a hikebike with her through Europe when Corona stroke. However - I and many dog owners like me look for a easy way to travel with dogs and therefore I decided to build a cargo bike on my own. There is however already some very lightweight cargo bikes that one should be able to go on a tour with. The four most interesting of those are The Bullitt (Larry vs Harry), Elian Cycles Cargo bike, The Maniac and Sane cargo bikes and finally the Catan Cargo Bike. It would be very interesting to se a touring bike analysis on these or other cargo bikes.
I think the frameset seems quite good value.
It’s more _useful_ than _interesting_ maybe but I’d love to see more about the Cinq, alternatives and how you can route generators and cables.
I've got a lot of dynamo content coming over the next year... everyone will eventually become an expert!
Thank you ! Another very well explained and detailed video of the details and intricacies ...that makes up a real ...WORLD touring bicycle , Your video , has created two things, first it created another argument in favour of spending in excess of 6000$ , for a touring bicycle, ....second your video created another competitor of bike builders from which to chose from.
Oops... sorry about that! 😂
Recently purchased a hardly used TT Metropolitan with Rohloff hub and dynamo hub, lights, USB charger, stand etc. It's not a quick bike, but it's so comfy that I call it my "Happy Bike", on account I just don't care about my speed as I'm more preoccupied with the scenery and what's going on.
So alee is this your next tourer?? Awesome bike, along with your koga, another great bike. The TT has been in my list for awhile. I picked up an MTBCYCLETECH tourer which I love
Good bike. It seems the weakest link would be the battery and the electrical components, as all other parts appear to be quite robust.
HI Alee, always nice to look at what’s around. How about a review/opinion of the Vivente WR and how it compares to its more expensive competitors in functionality.
Forgive me if I'm confused here, and I can't find a way to search the comments to see if this issue has been addressed but... (and this is the Internet so there's always a butt..) In the graph of dynamo hub drag and efficiency the more efficient hub with the lesser drag is labeled Shimano and the more draggy and inefficient hub is labeled Schmidt. The voice-over is claiming greater efficiency for the Schmidt hub.
I'm not complaining about anything I just am confused.
The labelling is correct. The drag is substantially lower (dotted line) for the Schmidt SON28 than the other hubs, but it does have slightly less power output too (solid line). When we compare the amount of drag for the power generated we get the hub's efficiency (60.2% on Schmidt SON28, 39.8% on Shimano UR700).
@@Cyclingabout I see it now. With your encouragement I focused on the individual lines of data and (in my mind) painstakingly resolved where I was messed-up. Your reviews are awesome but, your even tempered and concise answers to viewer questions is where the value is. I will never be able to justify owning one of these bikes or even a bike close to this level but I will always spend the time to watch your videos. Thank you!
You're welcome! I figure people can extract additional information from the comments section, so it's always worth investing time into responding to everyone. 😁
Hmmm, after 78,000 miles on my two trek 520's the Tout would be an incredible upgrade, but I'd go for the pinion.....
Good choice!
More mudguard clearance would be useful. A clagged up mudguard can stop a bike. An anti theft GPS locator linked to a phone would be desirable. Lovely bike and would need an expert bike mechanic to put it together properly to be reliable in use.
The mudguards can easily be spaced out further if you need, and Tout Terrain can do this from the factory. I recommend an expert mechanic to assemble any bike!
That pannier system with Ortlieb looks fantastic. I've been looking all over Tout Terrain's website, however, and still can't find them. Do they come with the bike?
They're called "EX rails" and they are an optional extra when you configure the bike. The price is something like 50 euros.
@@Cyclingabout What about the panniers themselves?
@@arsenalchamp It'll be best to contact Tout Terrain directly, as I don't remember seeing them in the configurator a few months ago (they might be now?).
@@Cyclingabout Yeah, I checked earlier today and couldn't find it - although of course it might be there
@@arsenalchamp Just send them an email, they're a friendly bunch!
Have a toot terrain Tanami, belt and Rohloff. Done about 4000 km to date. Carry some 45 kg on it as I have my small dog on the back rack, very stable and nice ride heavy loaded. Generally a very nice bike, don't care about the fixed rack though, limits options and the steering lock broke after a couple of weeks. It can easily be dismounted though so not a problem.
Great to hear you enjoy the Tanami Johan! After some feedback we redesigned our steering lock, and the Ergo Stop II Plus is a more robust design than version one as it uses a bolt-on CNC'd aluminum collar.
@@toutterrainbikes it probably works for most people, but heavy loaded front (say 15 kg) puts a lot of torque on the locks small radius through the leverage. I put a cheap traditional elastomer between the fork and the down tube, it keeps the wheel stable enough on a double kickstand and it basically can't break...
I loved to get one but with your type of handlebar ...Alee handlebar...or I can't remember the name but I met a Belgium couple during my ride last spring in Shimanami Kaido , Japan.. the guy is using your handle bar. Where can I buy the bike as I am in Malaysia? If it can be available in UK , I may also consider when I get there to start my ride after the pandemic hopefully. Thanks mate. Always awesome videos you made ... riding as well as equipment review.
Hi! Thank you very much for the video! As always it is interesting and full of necessary information. I came into the bike touring world about a year ago without ANY knowledge and started researching the field (with a lot of knowledge from your videos), about the bike i have chosen it is the brand VFS fahrradmanufaktur. I found this brand very durable, high standard qualitie made, and compering to othet brands it is very affordable. the thing is that there is lack of information (a specially in youtube) about VFS and i think it will be quit helpful to make a video about this brand. Wating for your next videos 🙏
As a frame builder who has built aluminum frames for 20 years, I can tell you that it is not really any harder to cut out an aluminum top tube and weld in a new one, than steel. I did like your comment about the reliability of hydraulic brakes, you know there is this myth that they are unreliable, and that mechanical brakes are less problematic.
High end, lovely bike, for sure and a great review, thanks. Deep dive achieved! Clear and entertaining video, as ever.
But I have an issue with the title. Here's why it isn't worth $6300. Frame is 4130 (1:44) so nothing special there and at this point, I would expect made to measure, which it is not. For about HALF this price, you can buy a Thorn Nomad, with a very similar steel frame and material with a choice of colour and ten sizes, without the integrated rack and fancy bag attachment (really necessary?), SON dynamo, yes connected with a wire - no big deal, various rim types and sizes to suit your needs, disc brakes, finishing kit etc etc. Where has the money gone? The frame is $1700, Rohloff $1200, Son $250, Edelux $150, wheels $300, finishing kit $750? This totals $4600.......?
Thanks! I've just checked, the price of the Thorn Nomad MK3 with a Rohloff/belt and rear rack is within 1000 euros of the equivalent Silkroad - and the spec isn't quite as nice. The Thorn is a great bike for the price, but it's definitely not half the price.
Also like to add, the quality control for the welding on these tout terrain is quite amazing.
I think it said it was heat-treated 4130 which is exactly the same as Reynolds 725 and not much different to Reynolds 853 (which is more likely to be available in those huge sizes). It doesn't get more high end than that until you're into the stainless tubes which aren't sized for this kind of bike. With the custom rack plus all the other braze-ons and bit and pieces and Taiwan manufacture I don't think $1700 is unreasonable for the frame. The other components cost what they cost and they seem to have a range available. Expensive certainly but a nice bike.
@@michaellovric9975 Yes I liked the look of those welds. Whoever did it used a decent amount of filler rod and they will be strong AF. A lot of frames these days have superficially very neat-looking welds but with a somewhat concave profile and even some undercut sometimes. This comes from using the "pulse and laywire" technique but I don't think it's as reliable.
Very interested in comparisons.
FWIW - My intro to "adventure cycling" was seeing a picture of a Salsa Vaya in some far-off, mountainous land. My heart said "I want to do THAT". I saved for 2 years and bought one. It took me on many many adventures even if it wasn't perfect for the job. I loved it. I've been looking for a replacement since it was stolen recently.
I've been thinking about doing the American Rockies (north to south) next year. Is your impression that this bike would be good for it, or would you much rather have something like your Koga?
(And, was this vid sponsored?)
It really depends on the terrain. The KOGA WTS can fit 2.4-2.6" tyres, so anything majority dirt roads will definitely fall in its favour! But if you're riding on smoother surfaces, you won't find many differences between the bikes as they use 90%+ the same parts, and both have very well engineered touring frames with a similar geometry.
@@Cyclingabout - clearly I'll have to order both. Maybe that will permanently satisfy the n+1 rule.
Thanks!
Nice bike great review. Have you come across the Thorn Nomad? What do you think of them?
You can read my words on the Nomad here: www.cyclingabout.com/custom-round-the-world-touring-bike-2020/
All those high quality Parts are also made in Germany. They seem to always be top in the line , be it automotive, industry or even now bicycle (ebike) tech...huge
Great touring bike but I am not so keen on the integrated rear rack. As you would struggle when flying to pack your bike into a solid bike box such as the Bikebox Alan or the Buxumbox. You would have to rely on a cardboard box from a bike shop if you can get one big enough.
I have a silk road by Tout Terrain. It fit's easily into my EVOC bike carrier. No problem what so ever. Just sayin'.
I haven’t heard you do anything on the Van Nicholas Deveron. Maybe you should? Great vid.
Cheers! I'd like to highlight the details of a titanium bike in the future, that could be the one.
CYCLINGABOUT great news. I am holding back on buying the Deveron. Big outlay for what is basically just a pushbike. Getting hold of anything at the moment is unlikely anyway. Thanks for the reply. I enjoy your videos and have learned a lot. If you are ever in East Anglia in the UK, (North Norfolk Coast), give me a bell. There is always a spare bed, a meal and a shower.
1:53 orange bike with fork suspension: what bike is that?
I think it might be good taking a touring bike steel frame and adding fork suspension, custom handlebar for comfort, mountain bike tyres.
Tout Terrain Outback.
Would love to hear your review of the Santos Travelmaster 3+ from the Netherlands. Really enjoy and appreciate the quality and the amount of research you put in your video.
Alee, what can you tell about the scientia a2 youre using? I've been thinking in one of these for a long time, for my measurements I should take A1 (105mm isqueos) but I have have always ride 135mm saddles, should I take the a2 or m1 or should I believe selle royal e go for a1?
Also, loving your vídeos and instagram!
Best regards
Terrific content as usual. One quibble- lowering the CG helps when the bike is stationary and you trying to hold it upright because it gives more leverage against the panniers. Once one is riding and therefore balancing, and higher cg is easier to balance and more stable.
When travelling in a straight line, a high centre of gravity is fine. But with your centre of gravity low, you can lean further to one side or the other without creating enough turning force to tip you over. I cannot think of many situations where a higher centre of gravity would be beneficial.
Riding both bicycles and motorcycles, I prefer a low CG. Not that important on a bicycle, but you're more free to move around on top and it's also easier when you're crawling at half the speed a human moves (necessary skill to pass riding test in Switzerland).
It would been perfect if there was a Pinion 18 speed gearbox and S&S Couplers
Agree the frame build is different.
Since there is a competition with Co-Motion Pangea, I am still 80-20 favorable to Co-Motion. Just these 2 option would make it optimal.
We are officially announcing our Pinion models very soon, you can sign up for our newsletter for updates or keep an eye on our social media channels!
@@toutterrainbikes Looking Forward to it
@@toutterrainbikes Cool, with the 18spd Pinion gearbox?
If I save $100 per week, I think I can afford to buy this bike in a year? Whoa. I started this adventure in 2022 trying to find an ebike but now manual seems to be the way to go! I am in love!
My cycle buddy has a tout terrain blue ridge GT. Wow! It doesn't look anything special until you start looking. The only down side is you don't get a choice on gearing. It is supplied with a 19 tooth rear sprocket. So will have to change it to 22 teeth before she gets near Yorkshire.
Opinion of the Salsa Blackborow Expedition/Touring bike or the similar Big Dummy cargo bikes. Both bikes would be on road or 'light' gravel. Thanks. Great videos.
Heavy. I was lucky to find a used pinion Xplore model for $3k.
Perfect.
Which one is easier for cycling uphill:
Pinion Gearbox or Rohloff?
Good question. Pinions weight more, hard to say if the better weight distribution counteracts this.
Old school of thought says lighter bikes are easier to cycle uphill
5:24
In bad conditions, the chain/belt that drives the hub also has some loss in efficiency, so it would be difficult to decide which is more efficient without actually testing it.
I've tested the drivetrain drag with a friend in a very unscientific way. By flipping the bikes upside down and spinning the cranks, we found the belt/Rohloff drivetrain to have less noticeable resistance in the conditions we were riding in, compared to when both drivetrains were perfectly clean and spinning about as freely.
Yes very nice but its excellence is negated by wondering whether it'll get nicked wherever you park it up! Im between getting either a expensive custom made tourer [4- 5k] or adapting a 90's MTB you might find in a skip...😁
Quite a bike. I wasn't familiar with this level of quality. Your review was beyond excellent. Thank you.
A superb video as always - Many thanks for producing and Kindly sharing the wisdom. Best wishes & Happy pedalling 🙏 🚴♂️🚴♂️
If you consider what 3k buys you, this is perhaps a logical price point but I'm not wealthy enough to consider it, and I'm not that poor. I do think for long-distance touring I'd go with a Rohloff hub and gates belt. I did my first bad-weather, muddy tour recently with no chance to stop, and my newly installed components got damaged and it made horrible noises.
I've been longing for a bike ever since. How i wish i could have a bike like yours 😔
Alee,
Where can I find the steering limiter and lock? Is it on the market yet?
What´s the brand name of the company producing the steering lock? Thank you in advance!
Have you tried the Stanforth bikes?
Very nice new brand I am discovering, thanks to yo Alee ! Could we have an insight on the differences between the 8 models listed on the Expedition page of Tout Terrain? Lost under all this choice, with apparently no explanation for first visitors. And by the way, I would love to see one of those bikes confiburable with the Koga Alee bars!
I am trying to get into touring. What is your view on the Trek 520 or 920 speced with a dynamo hub lighting and charging alongwith the supplied racks? Thank You.
There is one feature that I have not seen offered. Back in 1984, (before most of you were alive,) I had bought a Nishiki Serale. (I'm probably spelling that wrong), I had really liked that touring bike. It had on the handle bars, about 1/4" to maybe 3/8" like foam rubber. For long rides this added crushing helped a lot on my hands. Today I suffer from nerve damage in mostly my left hand, and I'm constantly moving/shifting my hands to reduce the tingling. Another change that came about is in the tire pumps. They used to have a Long Aluminium tire pump that was very reliable, & pumped up your tire MUCH faster than the garbage pumps sold today. Which often brake down. The Koga, and the Silk road, sound like a dream! But with what they are charging, I'd have to put the wife in the garage, & the bike in bed with me!
Thanks for the interesting videos. A whole bew world! I've seen you tackle some quite rough terrain, but your bikes have no suspension. Is it because of their effect on efficiency? Is it because of the need of som quite heavy suspension to support a heavely loaded bike? Are there other reasons? Should a daily commute bike have suspension, in your opinion? Thanks in advance!
Suspension forks need regular servicing to work well. Usually every 50-100 hours of cycling. I do that much cycling in just a few weeks, so I need the most simple set up possible. When you load up the front of a bike, it is actually quite smooth to ride anyway...
I don't think a bike in an urban environment needs suspension. 😎
@@Cyclingabout Many thanks for the reply! I suppose one can slap on some suspension on a bike to sell it easier to someone like me, who doesn't know what he's buying. :) Noticed that there also isn't much discussion about electric bikes. Is that also something that might not be as beneficial as marketed? It sure seems that it'd be nice to have some assistance while climbing steep hills, in head wind, with heavy luggage.
@@dempa3 I don't really discuss eBikes because touring and bikepacking is more my wheelhouse. But I generally think eBikes are awesome - especially if they open up the experience of cycling to a broader audience.
Hi Jesse, what‘s your opinion on 27.5“ vs. 29“ on touring bikes?
More affordable than I would have guessed. Nice ride.
I got a bit scared of the price, but there seems to be plenty of different options to choose from for a lot less than that 5500 EUR :-)
Another great review, Alee! I really like the look and the innovative details of that bike. But the price tag is indeed hefty and I would expect a multi-purpose bike for 6k. You are mentioning a maximum tire width of 2.1. How does that compare to your Yoga WT? Where are the limits of the Silkroad with these tires? Are there any? After all, ToutTerrain calls it a bike for world travellers, so I expect that it is pretty versatile, no?
The KOGA WTS is basically a hybrid between the TT Silkroad and Outback.
The KOGA will fit a 2.5" tyre with fenders, and a touch more without. Tyre volume is the main factor that determines how rough terrain you can ride. 2.3-2.6" is common on mountain bikes, so where a mountain bike can go, a KOGA WTS (or TT Outback) can go.
Very nice, but there are two or three deal breakers here that would stop me dead purchasing one of these. In my opinion and personal experience a welded steel frame is simply not as sturdy as a soldered frame.
To weld steel tubing it has to be heated beyond its melting point ruining and weakening the grain structure along both sides of the weld bead increasing the danger of frame failure at these places. Soldering or brazing using a silver-copper alloy heats the tubing to only 400 degree C and also reinforces the exact places frames tend to fail.
Disk brakes are really hard on spokes. And the more weight they have to stop the bike with worse that becomes. Also, if you take your bike with you on a flight, disks can easily end up bent and buckled because of bad luggage handling. Good luck finding replacements, say, in Peru or Turkey.
I've never been a friend of hydraulic brakes. Not just because it's unnecessarily complicated technology for a simple function, but also, if they fail in said Peru or Turkey or even just in Spain or Greece you are in trouble. Sure, I've been reassured by loads of people just how reliable they are, but nothing is that reliable. They might be good a hundred times, it only takes once for them to fail, and when that happens somewhere in Turkey I want to know I can fix it. You simply won't find anyone in Turkey able to fix hydraulic brakes, but every village there will have someone who can help you fix the good old fashioned ones. I've met two cyclists on my tours who were stuck with damaged hydraulic brakes, I'm making sure I don't joint them. BTW, I've also never had to set my brakes on any of my tours.
Thanks for your detailed feedback! We use high-grade heat-treated chromoly, skilled framebuilders, and a rigorous quality contrcol process, and as Alee pointed out in the video, our frames have been tested to the absolute highest stress tests available in the industry, so we're extremely confident in the strength of our frames. We do also offer mechanical disc brakes for those who prefer the simplicity of those systems.
Does the integrated rear rack present any difficulty when packing into a bike box ? I guess if you take off both the front and rear wheels, you would get it in ok.
As you keep the rear wheel on a bike when packing it, the rack will have no effect.
Just snagged a 2016 fully equipped version for 500€, luckiest day ever ♥
what an awesome research - literally no questions left behind!
great video man one question can you buy the steering limiter separately? and if so where can I buy it ?
This one requires the frame to match. Look up the SteerStopper though.
@@Cyclingabout nice thaks
Sounds like a pretty good value to me! lots of attention to detail.
Exactly, bikes (ours and many others) can have a high price tag and still be a great value!
Hello Alee, I was interested in your special designed Denham touring handle bar. I recall that you mentioned that it is preferable to have a long stem so that the hand positions are in the front arc. This means that I should have at minimum a 120mm long stem and better still 130mm?
The minimum stem length is ~80mm.
Who makes the steering limiter lock and the kickstand?
FYI It is not rigidity which makes the wheels last It is toughness. The increased wall section rims would not measure as significantly stiffer but they would take significantly more energy not force to deflect them. A small but important distinction that all but an engineer wouldn't understand.
The limiter is proprietory to Tout Terrain. The kickstand is by Atran Velo. The Andra rims are significantly stiffer - I've broken 20% of the spokes on an Andra wheel and it was still running very straight.
Non-Enginerd's don't understand the technical difference between stiffness and toughness
beautiful bike. But there are a number of manufacturers easily on par and probably exceeding TT for features and arguably quality. Idworx, Santos are two that come to mind.
Love it, great review mate 👍
Thanks 👍
Thanks for great vid. This bike makes American touring bikes seem subpar. I wish american bike companies made bikes this bad ass
Have you seen the offerings from Robert Beckman Designs? Or Bilenky? Or Co-Motion?
Or countless custom frame builders? The steering stop is a neat little addition but I'm not sold on the integrated racks.
An honest and comprehensive review. Bravo
Hi Alee - I'd like to know your opinions on Tout Terrain's e-bike models - and more generally, perhaps, on what to look for in high-end electric touring bikes. As 58-year-old cyclist, I really appreciate - meaning, I heavily depend upon - the extra power of pedal assistance, particularly on long, steep hills... Not to mention the convenience of extra speed on my daily commute. The experience of e-biking in the past could of years has inspired me to get back to the kind of adventurous cycle-touring I last attempted over 20 years ago, but of course, my little folding commuter e-bike isn't up to the task - and I need to think very carefully before investing heavily in a proper touring rig. Have you ridden or tested any touring e-bikes? If not, I'm sure some of the top manufacturers, such as Tout Terrain and others, would be more than happy to send you their best e-bikes to put through their paces... And I guess quite a lot of your viewers would be very interested to hear what have to say, when you've done so!
I don't know a lot about eBikes, but everything I do know is written here: www.cyclingabout.com/bicycle-touring-on-electric-bikes-ebikes/
Hopefully, in the next few years, I'll set up a home base and play around with some ebikes. It's hard when you're always on the move!
@@Cyclingabout Thanks for this, your article on ebikes is very thorough and informative. FYI, though, your links to Gijs Stevers go to a domain that now seems to belong to someone named Robert Hora, who writes random dodgy articles about pickup techniques, bitcoin investing and finding good divorce lawyers - but nothing at all about bikes!
@@andrewclifton429 Thanks! I'll delete that link now.
Investigate the Priority 600x which also uses the Gates belt drive and enclosed drive train enginered by former Porsche employees at 1/3 the cost. Built in the States but also have a wait time.