Hi, Ken here,I have been riding continuously for 67 years. I have never had less than 2 motorcycles. I have a 1985 Yamaha V-Max, and a 2005 Yamaha FJR 1300,both bought new. I went in to buy a new Harley, it was low on power, I road the BMW GRAND AMERICA, and wrote a check for it. It is the finest most refined motorcycle that i have ever been on. I will be 80 years old on my birthday
I rode Japanese bikes for over 30 years and finally satisfied my research in buying a BMW K 1600 GTL. My wife and I ride everywhere and nothing can beat this bike for the reasons you've listed. We used to ride 300 miles a day max and be terribly sore and fatigued from all the rumbling. Now we can ride 5-600 with no problem in a single day and not be sore. America just got smaller.
The Goldwing doesn’t have the power of the BMW; it’s not even close. Plus, the Goldwing is heavy and the side cases and trunk cannot be removed quickly. The Goldwing is nice. But it’s a couch with no performance. If you ride in straight lines you may have a point. But that’s not riding to me.
Discuss market after 400000 miles on road glides. I took one ride on A GTL and Loved it immediately. You can't believe what it's like to finally ride a Fast great handling bike the weighs 200 pounds less than a Road glide
I have the K1600B, and I looooove riding this for hours…after 2 back surgeries, I needed a comfortable bike…but I didn’t want to sacrifice the power and handling. This bike had it all. The radio is pure crap though
The exact reason I’m thinking of trading my 12FLHTK in on a Goldwing Tour DCT. After 240,000 miles on 4 Ultras, and being 72 years old, I need something smoother, lighter, and quieter.
Went from a 2017 HD Limited CVO with every available upgrades at the time (+15K$ in upgrade) to a 2018 BMW GTL K1600...never regretted my decision. I nonetheless did lose some HOG friends along the way but was still worth it for my wife and l.
I have had the same experience with HOG members, I will add that the HOG chapter here seems a little more lenient than I thought and have asked me to ride with them more than once
yeah you lost some HOG friends in your rear view mirror with them topped out in 5 th gear and you in 3rd gear at 5,000 rpm with another 2,000 to a redline of 7,000 I have had a bmw k 1300 s that was a silver bullet. 150mph all day long... now that I'm 50 more cruising .... at 100 mph .... in 4 th gear.... lol
I also switched to a K1600 GTL from a Road King (which I still have) and later a Road Glide, and all of your points are right on. My wife as passenger favors the K1600 once I swapped the saddle for a Russell daylong, armrests, and a better windshield.That’s $2,500 in upgrades to make it fit, so the beemer isn’t immune from the money pit part, although it does much better. Total cost of ownership overall is a wash, but I do much of my own maintenance except checking valve adjustment, but that’s done once at the 36k service (checking them more often is a waste) My GTL eats rear tires for breakfast On my longer touring trips, I would ride 400 miles a day on my Harley and I was beat. I can put 650+ miles on my GTL and still want more - it’s that good. Canyon carving on my GTL puts an ear to ear grin on my face. I never play the bike’s sound, so the lousy quality doesn’t bug me. I pipe music from my phone through my sena into speakers in my helmet on all bikes I have owned. The one thing my wife misses is that awesome Harley rumble. The GTL sounds like a sewing machine.
I went to Switzerland 3 years ago for a 16-day ride around the country and ended up on a 2016 BMW K1600 GTL, it wasn't my first choice for the ride. It was an AMAZING TRIP! But the highlight of the ride was the bike! I came home and bought the same bike. Saturday February 12, 2022, I just bought a 2019 BMW K1600B (bagger)! Leaving tomorrow morning for a 6-day ride to Death Valley. Keeping the GTL
Hi, Bert here from the Netherlands. Six months ago I traded in my 2002 Roadking classic for a 2014 BMW K1600GT. Man, what a difference! I agree with you on all points except...the Harley sentiment. From an eye-catcher that shakes and makes noise to a sewing machine that can barely be heard. I miss that raw sound! This is already better with an Akrapovic exhaust, but the shortcoming remains...
I went from a 2008 Harley Street Glide that I bought new and loved to a 2021 BMW K1600B. Now I absolutely love the B and never looked back for many of the reasons that you articulated in your video. Nice job BTW... I agree that the BMW sound system sucks, but I use a Bluetooth-connected headset in my helmet that receives sound from my Iphone that is kept in the side case plugged into the bike's 12 volt system. I have replaced the stock saddle with a Corbin 2-up saddle with dual heat and a backrest that can be used from the driver or pillion, added rear bag crash protection bars and bar-backs for the handle bars because I am short and these improvements have made the BMW fit me like a glove! Great bike and I look forward to riding it as long as I rode my Harley!
Even though this video is 3yrs old, it hits on every single point on why I changed to a K1600B a month ago. #1 especially. I'm beyond over buying a new HD and immediatley have to dump 10k into it just to make it enjoyable to ride. Every HD I bought in the last 10 years needed bars, exhaust, tune, seat, stereo and suspension all around to start to make it enjoyable. Not to mention I was 29K OTD on the BMW and the newer Road Glide ST with a 117 was 36k OTD. The BMW out of the box only needed a taller windscreen and I changed to some shortly levers. Thats it. Good Suspension, Comfortable seat, Good technology, Seat and Grip heaters, Nice screen, nice lighting, center stand, central locking, and a quickshifter out of the box are some nice additions. HD needs to step it up and offer a better bike 'out of the box'. My K1600B runs circles around my former 131 Road Glide that I had 15k of mods into.
All valid points and I’ll throw in number six. You finally became mature enough not to feel the need to rev up your HD at EVERY STOP LIGHT. I ride a 2003 Goldwing and it had and has more tech as a stock 03’ than most brand new HD’s, congrats on your purchase !!
Thanks for the video I have owned the following 2012 Road King Special 2016 Road Glide 103 in Denim Black 2019 Road Glide Special 114 in Billiard Blue Wrecked the 19 whilst riding to Lake Highlands from DFW Six months later looked at the Concours 14 The FJR The Goldwing DCT Ended up with the K1600b love the bike miss my Harley but at his time I agree with your reasons The K1600b sits like the Roadglide but rieesclike night and day My only complaint is the Navi system is over priced So I use my phone mounted to the bars -,just effective
BMW has a light flywheel.moving 6 small pistons. This make clutch control very hard . The hardest thing you will ever do on a motorcycle is slow speed maneuvering. . To me the clutch was very hard to find the friction zone and that very unsettling to me at stops on uphills. And even though the bmw weight less the my street glide. It felt top heavy at slow speed. Now on the open road these problems disappeared. Now my friend that rode a demo with me is a golding owner. He wasn't so kind on what he felt about the BMW. Glad you like it. . And good luck with it
I've owned both road bikes--Road King Classic, '06 and '08 Street Glides, 2012 and 2016 K16GT. I'm 59. I like both bikes, but I prefer the K16 for the power and performance. One key distinction for me was that I found my riding style changed considerably when riding the K16. When touring on the Harleys, I tend to notice more of the scenery. But, when touring on the K16, I tend to focus more on taking advantage of every curve in the road. For me, riding the K16 on a great road is like a great roller coaster ride, one that you want to ride to the end and rinse and repeat again and again. The K16 compels you to hit the throttle and enjoy what the road gives you, whereas the Harleys aren't as engaging in terms of thrills in the curves. I do enjoy great scenery, but I think I prefer hitting the K16's throttle in the curves even more.
My Dad’s buddy had a Harley that gave him nothing but trouble - a lemon. He took it back to the dealer several times and asked the mechanic what he should do since he had it in the shop more than he rode it. The Harley mechanic told him to buy a Honda Gold Wing. 🤔😳
I’m glad you said it is your opinion! ! I believe if you ride long enough you will learn what every veteran rider knows motorcycles are like mates. When you find a bike that speaks to your soul you don’t have to do what you are doing here. When you love something or someone you don’t have to explain it to anyone. I tell people if you see me with the same woman or motorcycles it’s cause I love them! I will not explain it to anyone! That’s why you see so much diversity In people and bikes! Enjoy the bike you love brother!
Was going going to to say something - but you've summed it up well Ronald. Mad bad and dangerous, but can't help loving it. It does not need to make sense.
Totally agree on BMW my bikes in order. HD Springer which I rode in the 95th Anniversary ride next Peter Fonda, Willie G, Jay Leno and Eric Buell. Awesome experience. Honda Interceptor (2nd bike), Triumph Sprint (2nd bike), Ultra Classic, Deuce. Then moved from Milwaukee, WI to Scottsdale, AZ……, Interceptor, FJR1300, Honda Goldwing, R1200RT, Honda Goldwing, R1200RT, and another RT. BMW makes great bikes. Seriously considering the GTL1600. Love your videos 👍
I bought my ‘21 BMW K1600b a month ago and already crested 1000 miles. I can’t believe how much I love this motorcycle...it’s so plush, handles fabulous, and the tech is out of this world Agree, Radio sucks man! Can’t wait to upgrade it
I made the change from a long term street glide owner to a K1600b, I started looking to change thanks to Harleys rear suspension hurting my back, I was looking at buying a new ultra and then having to spend thousands on aftermarket shocks, so I started looking around, then I fell in love with the K16b’s engine, been happy ever since, best bike I’ve ever owned. You are right about the radio, but after using latest Sean/cardio systems, all fixed bike stereos are redundant, there cheaper and sound better, and you can jump on any bike your music comes with you, if you ride in a group mesh technology is awesome.
I have a GSA, the thing with BMW, is that they get the little details right, and the big ones too. For example, right angle valves on spoked wheels for easy inflation- and getting the suspension right, out of the box
To each their own. Everyone should be happy with the bike they own. All bikes are so much better today than 20 -50 years ago. Most manufacturers are adding new technology. Glad you like it.
A lot of the same reasons I went to a Harley Davidson's dealer in Dallas to pick-up my 2018 GTL K1600. I got lucky that the owner was a wealthy guy and to old to understand the electronics on the BMW, and decided to go with the Log instead and left me his almost brand new (6k miles) BMW at the dealer. The guy installed about $5k in upgrades that I inherited without paying the price for them (arm rests, whole sport exhaust system, led light upgrades, GPS system, storage rack, and some more). Plus since I am pretty mechanically incline I don't have to spend all the $$ some people talk about by going to a Motorrad shop to service my bike. I buy the OEM parts (oil, filter, crush washer/gasket, coolant, etc.) and I do it myself saving me the headache and making sure everything was done correctly in the 1st place. Maneuverability with the BMW is almost as good as riding my sport bike, speed HP and torque is great, comfort is excellent for myself and my wife. I just don't see me getting in a heavy Harley or even the Goldwing after trying the GTL; it wouldn't make any sense! The looks we get on the street every time we take it out are just another plus.
Wealthy guy too old to understand the electronics? That’s funny. But probably not true. Just wanted to buy a bike he thought had the image he was after and ride with others who are about image.
Thank you for sharing your reasons. It’s definitely a great help and I have few of my friends who switched to BMW lately from different types of manufacturers which includes Ducati, Harley and Yamaha. Couple of those guys even completed ride from North Carolina to Alaska successfully with their new BMWs.
I've done the same thing for the same reasons but my replacement for our 2009 Harley CVO Ultra Classic's is the 2021 Goldwing Tour. My maintenance records for this Harley show almost $18,000 invested in repairs (upgrades for performance were done early on and not included in the repair costs). The 110 engine was apart seven times for just about every problem you could think of - top end, bottom end, . At 56,000 miles, the crank went out and almost everything else inside needed upgraded again. Harley's sound good and look cool but a lot of their performance and technology is lacking compared to the competition.
Thank you for your honest opinion. I am not a HD guy, although like you pointed out you can customize them like crazy. But I want the same exact things you said. Speed, upgrades and comfort for the wife. Plus the cost effect of them. Thanks again for an honest review.
Excellent video brother!! I've been riding for 60 years now and I'm a two time BMW owner and a 5 time Harley owner...BMW outshines Harley all day every day!! About to get my third BMW....a K1600B.....oh yeah...btw, you can customize almost any bike (even a BMW) the way you did your Harley....and no one gives a shit about a stereo....that's a moot point!! The one thing I really don't like about BMW is the $160.00/hour labor rate at the dealerships!!
I’ve had most Tourer’s and always seem to end up with the BMW, like the video says! It’s the complete package once you get use to the winding engine noise, don’t get out much now but will keep my GTL only if it’s to just look at.
I have been riding for over 45 years had bmw k1200lt 1600glte r1200rt goldwing 1800 vrod suzuki gs1150 yamaha turbo and a few smaller bikes. Now I ride a ultra limited one of my favorite bikes so far. With over 60 thousand kilometers without a single problem just oil and tires. Drive safe.
You have the most common complaints about an HD, and frankly, I never considered the 1600 when I was deciding between the two. I rode, and checked out the new bagger bikes, and for various reasons, I still felt the best option was the HD. I took the Street Special. BUT! I DID give up the technology for sure. I'm glad to see the MSRP is the same, and I'm not sure how much BMW negotiates on their saddles, but it looks like my out-of-pocket would have been roughly the same with tax, warranty, etc. I've upgraded five things on the bike, but that was my limit because as you mention you can continually dump $$$ into the machines with this or that, and it can get old for sure. As for fast, I have the 114, with the Stage II, and it's plenty for my old bones at this point.
1 have a 2018 bmwk1600 B. I totally agree with every point you said. I upgraded my exhaust with a Remus exhaust as well as upgraded speakers. I used marine aqua speakers with 100 amp per speakers. I did hook up a blue tooth connector to the stock AUX connector. NO STAGE 4 needed. right off the sale room floor. 160 horse power in Road mode. turn on the Dynamic mode you better hang on. Best thing about a BMW for me is this. BMW is the ONLY motorcycle company that offers the following EASY RIDE program. you take the selling price of the bike lets say $25,000 and you cut the total in 1/2. so $12,500 then you make payments on that amount for 4 years. at the end of the 4 years you can trade it back in for a new model OR make payments on the remaining $12500. Basically a lease for a motorcycle. no need to drop the whole $25,000 on a new bike. Also love the point that a Harley CVO is around mid to upper $38,000 then add in the Factory 47 inch bars, Rhienhart Exhaust say hello to $42,000 and still can't compare to what you get for a BMW. heated grips, seat, Adaptive Head lights that are brighter then most car lights. in line 6 motor the same as a bmw 318 i automobile. ABS brakes, traction control 3 ride modes including rain mode (less power to the wheels) BRembo brakes. movable windscreen. and like you said Tech. Tech and more TECH. and a very comfortable riding position.
Love your comments and agree with them. I have a Harley and an Indian (which is much better than the Harley) but I will be picking up my Grand America in two weeks. I just feel at my age (70) that its time for lighter bike with reverse so I can continue to enjoy this sport for more years.
Agree 100%... I have a BMW Grand America and an Ultra. For a while I preferred the Ultra for long highway rides bc it was more stable at high speeds ( due to the weight ) . The BMW was a little jittery on the highway until i added the wind deflectors which settled the bike down . I still enjoy the Ultra for what it is... Old school and very mechanical... but the BMW does EVERYTHING well !
I understand. I have about $45k in a Street Glide changing literally everything. I just bought a K1600GTL because I rode it and loved the engine. Now I have two. Both are paid off so that helps.
What can I say? I have owned Harleys and presently own 2, including a Limited that I upgraded with the Stage III kit and headers. And a whole bunch of other things too… And it is a good performer…for a touring Harley. I tested the ‘24 K1600B recently at Bike Week and found it to be better than the Harley in every measurable way. It would flat smoke any Harley outside of a race-prepped bike. So I’m selling another underutilized bike and considering the Grand America variant. I want the option of the top case and the taller windshield. But you are absolutely right and it is entirely possible that after owning Harleys for most of my adult life I’ve bought my last one.
I did add a few things to my BMW k1600B that has made it more comfortable for me. Aftermarket windshield , heel/toe shifter, drivers backrest, handle bar risers and side wings. It's PERFECT !
Just saw this video 2 years later, and I love your comments. I picked up a 2022 BMW GTL almost a year ago and really like it. And even though it has that nice 10.25" TFT screen, the navigation on it using the Connected App is subpar, and it lacks CarPlay which I'd really like. And here it is 2023 and HD just released their new CVO lineup, and yes, they're not cheap! But... I really like what HD did with their 12" TFT screen which also has CarPlay. And the new 121 VVT engine seems very good. I've never had a HD before, but the new CVO Street Glide still piques my interest. Though it's still heavier than the GTL, does not have a reverse gear feature and still has manual rear shock adjustment. And at the base price of $43k and $46k with the top-box option package which I'd need for us travelling, we're looking at over $50k OTD! Still, this 2023 CVO Street Glide still intrigues me, I love the looks and I wish I had $50k to get it.
One thing I learned over the years in my personal quest for speed is, when you get a faster bike it only feels faster for a little while. We (or at least me) grow accustomed to the speed. After a while the sensation subsidies.
I totally agree, I owned 6 Harleys before I actually went to BMW. I first owned a R1200GS, great bike as I do a lot of long distance. Then traded in for a K1600 Bagger, did not like the way it handled in the highway, the airfoils create LIFT and the bike is unstable, Then I moved to a R1250GSA HP, wonderful…again the very best, but I dreamed of having a K1600 GTL, got it and enjoyed a long trip, wonderful bike, but cannot be compared to the R1250GSA, so then and now, I am back to a 2022 R1250GSA again and for long distances and for the unexpected, there is NOTHING you can compare out there.
I just purchased the 2022 K1600 B, loving it. Smart move on your part, its a better mount for us 50+ riders. Your hardcore Harley buddies are probably calling you a benedict arnold, but hey, its about survival and enjoying life. :)
I was ready to get the new Harley Street Glide ST but then when test riding one the air filter hits you in the shin, above 50MPH or so the wind buffeting is terrible and the engine heat because they run so hot will burn your right leg. To cure the buffeting you need to install the fork mounted wind deflectors and to cure the heat problem there are so many things that needs to be done. Plus where I live the BMW K1600 B model has replaced more than a few Harleys and is Hells Angels approved as I know of 6 members who own and ride them.
I’ve ridden Harley Davidson Motorcycles for the last 30 years. I’ve had several of them including the Dyna Wide Glide, Road King, CVO Softail Convertible, Bad Boy Springer, Street Glide, Road Glide Ultra, and finally a 2021 Heritage Classic 114. After one ride on a K 1600 GTL, I sold the Heritage and I am picking up my K 1600 GTL in 2 weeks. I am doing it for the exact reasons that you stated in the video.
Agree 100%. I'm on my 6th touring bike since 2006. Four Roadglide's, one Ultra Classic, and a 2012 Goldwing. My current is a 2021 Roadglide Special. I have sunk $42K into it which includes $12K in upgrades. A true money pit! I am less than 24 hours from committing to purchase a 2022 K1600 GTL Option 719 or walk away and loose an opportunity to own my 1st BMW. Here is why I am considering a BMW. In May 2022 I logged 7K miles in 28 days on my Roadglide while participating in the XXXII annual Run for the Wall. At the end of each day I was exhausted and saddle sore. The folks on BMW's and Goldwing's were ready for dinner and dancing. I am 70 years old and in good physical shape and I am sure my exhaustion was partially due to my age but I also think operating that big heavy Harley also had something to do with it. Last week I test rode a 2021 GTL and it was awesome. However, I just don't if the GTL will help with my long ride endurance. So I have until tomorrow morning to decide ar take the chance of someone else snatching the GTL away.
In 2016 I was going to buy a street glide special... I rode a R1200RT. Best bike I ever had. Have a k16000b.. other best bike I own .. what you get for your money puts Harley to shame.
My experiences I started with a sportster many years ago it was a ‘72. Moved to the metric bikes Honda sports bikes , Suzuki ( vstrom , bandit) Yamaha ( fz1 fjr. ) BMW 1150 GS Most were great bikes. The biggest issue I had were parts availability. The FJR fried it’s mail electrical harness. That took 3 months to get handled. The side cases , I lost one it just flew off. All the Japanese bikes engines were well taken care of and I could get around 50k before they needed work which is not too bad since they are high rpm bikes. The BMW I had electric problems from the start. Corrosion on wires was the cause and that was handled the big issue was when I had the master cylinder fail. That took 6 months to get a replacement. Then a lot of warranty hassles. So when. I got a new bike I got wants I started with an HD. Is it the fastest. No. Is it $$ for what you get? yes. The thing that I like is the fit and finish’s is very good vs the metrics , the dealer network, and the resale value is still excellent vs other bikes.
Jimmy and I were just talking about resale and dealer network. You are correct about both. HD network is the best in the US market, no one can compete. I am doing my research into resale value and may end up doing a video on that very soon. Thanks for engaging with us.
The new Road Glides have great tech, the bigger M8 has excellent power, and I liked the handling and brakes. It is very heavy, and there is no easy way to move it around when seated and loaded.
Amen brother been riding HDs since 1982. Wouldn’t pay the price for a CVO!and looked at all the other manufacturers. Ended up with a 2018 K1600 Grand America. I’m over 27K on the speedo and lovin it. My local HOG club guys love razing me but they see it does everything better. PS I could part with my ultra classic, it’s way to pretty.
Past bikes included Roadglide w\ stage 4 & thunder headers, Gold wing, … I passed on BMW in 2014 due to no dealer local; I went with the Gl1800. At 5ft6, lower seat, decent lights,… still needed more mods to “feel right.” My wing was about $12k past MSRP and still could have changed more. Saw the K1600 used, was about 20% less than a comparable Wing. 2022- I picked up a ‘14 GTL. It’s like my wing , after a trip to the fat farm, add traction, a speed module, driving and decent headlights( OEM gold wing lights simply SUCK!) Anyway, less money and performance that I never expected! No going back now.. If I had to do it again, I think I’d repeat all of it just to be able to feel the difference. Honda has a P.R. Machine pitching half the bike for the same , if not significantly more for the under performing( I can only say that now) Honda. I live in Puerto Rico where the twisties make the tail of the dragon look like a mellow country drive. No way my Gl1800 would read the road texture with its detached for the driving experience suspension system. Gold Wing enjoys a multimillion dollar hype machine to attract us to the shiny lure of the lesser bike. Ride a used K1600, leave the wing in the showroom. Plus 42 mpg highway@ 75 mpg avg.. wing~ 34. I’m a convert!
I have never felt Harley delivered anything near close to the competitor bikes. Every BMW I have ever owned was awesome. Harley always disappointed me with performance and power and you chase it with a Ton of money. I got fed up finally and sold all my Harley’s and bought a used R1200RT. Love it and like you, I’m heading toward a K1600B. I wish you very many happy miles 🫵🏻👍🏻
Returned to riding at 48 on a BMW F900XR, and it has been a great bike to return on - very nimble, upright seating, & very torquey for low speed maneuverability. But looking to my next bike, more touring capabilities with the sport. Test ride the Harley low rider ST - 117, fairing, small chassis. Very nice big - turns with the effort of a school bus and has the tech of a 1980’s calculator for $22k??? Sorry, Harley maybe a lifestyle as mentioned by another commenter - but that “lifestyle” is setting the bar very low and paying to much for it. Based on my 20 minute test ride - this video is spot on!!!
I have a K1600GA on order 2023 in Manhattan Metallic Matte… hope you are still loving your GTL… best of all the GA is only 28K and has all of the goodies that the GTL has. Whoop, Whoop
Hi, I bought the 2018 Bmw K1600 GTL brand new. Planet blue metallic with brown leather seats option 719 , all options. Couldn’t be happier.😄 Comfort and performance in a superb combination in my opinion. Won’t trade it in, it’s a keeper for sure!!!
I picked up a 2020 GTL new in 2021 from OKC BMW. I'm in Pa and was looking for the sparkling bronze metallic, hard to find but they had one. It was a 719 option. I added the sattle brown seat and Akrapovic HP exhaust. I wanted something sporty, fast, handled well, and comfortable enough to do long days coast to coast. I must say I got just that. This machine is fantastic. I rode it in OK and KS to break it in. They did the 600mile service to next day, and I rode the long way back to Pa. Ten days later rode to Yosimite Ca. seven months and 20k later I know I got the right bike. All the HD touring bikes are nice. I like the Roadglide the best,but when you compare price for what you get it's not close. I think he hit it on the head.
I went from a 2005 ultraglide to a Victory Vision and the suspension was so much better along with the handling. Now I am going to a 2018 BMW K1600GTL. I am expecting that in the long run it is going to be the PERFECT long distance bike. I am getting to have more free time as I get older and am hoping to take more long distance vacations. Picking it up a week from today!! WOOHOO!
My favorite part of this video was, you wearing a Harley shirt through the duration! I actually like the fact that K1600 are much rarer up here than Harleys, and to me all Harley's look the same if they have windscreens, no matter the amount spend on customizing. I had no idea they had a surprisingly lower power to weight ratio too. Hmm, must be popular for character and history.
I’ve been riding over 30 years, mostly Japanese sport bikes. I eventually bought a Harley for 2up riding. I would have loved to buy a Goldwing or a K1600 but I am sick of all the plastic. Plastic everywhere, you can barely see the motor, it’s crazy that they have to cover it up. Sure, aerodynamics play a role but I’d rather see the motor, not plastic. Harley’s have come a long way, sure they are down on power but they handle way better than they did prior to 2014. Harley’s hold their value too, take a look at what a k1600 is worth after 5 or 6 years.
I had a 1500 aspencade 1994…. Went to Harley just looking ended up letting them talk me into buying a 2022 roadking special . I can’t wait to trade in this bike.
Cool discussion I rode enduros when was in high school miss it so much honestly looking at small displacement bikes as a supplement to my aging body but still have better suspensions to handle the few dirt roads round where I live
Liked the video. You made some great points. I test rode a gtl when they first came out. My wife and I were both impressed. After that is was kind of hard to ride home on our k1200lt. Long story short, the gtl is a much better bike in many ways, all of which you covered. But like many things in life maybe when I grow up and save all my bubble gum money I just might buy one. I'm pushing 60 now and maybe it is time to get something faster. Sounds like a plan to me. Keep riding like there's no tomorrow, enjoy the trips and memories you and your wife share together, who knows if we ever find our to the great state of Texes, I'll be sure to wave and smile and share a tale or two with you all. Till then my friend cheers!
I agree with all 5 reasons,especially the customizable part. my biggest regret was getting my Harley because if I want to have someone ride I have to upgrade seat and shocks and then I’m gonna need more powers and have to upgrade the engine then I’m gonna need better handling so I gotta upgrade the suspension and it just goes on and on. It’s an expensive after thought in my garage. The seating positions like sitting in the chair at the dinner table and being really top heavy. I just don’t feel connected to the bike in corners sitting like that. I choose my 2022 Rocket 3R for all my riding. The seating position is great for me. I need to find a tourer that fits me and Harley is definetly not it.
Hi, I just went threw the same thing you did except I had a Indian challenger. Don’t get me wrong the challenger is a great bike , I had the lloydz cams,tune, and exhaust the bike ran great but it still wasn’t where I wanted it to be. My 1600B will be delivered on 1-5-23 and can’t wait to ride if from what all the reviews have said about it
Same story as 52 years ago when I brought my Honda CB750 and wondered why Harleys were so slow and uncomfortable. An I7 is the best configuration for long highway trips.
Finally! An HD (former owner) who has done a comparison BMW vs. HD. All good points, and yes, you are correct about the cost. A fully dressed HD out runs a fully dressed BMW GTL/GA. Thanks for this vid. I currently ride a 2018 GA and just subed to your channel!
I know a guy who rides a K1600GTL. Maintenance seems to cost more.. valve checks get him every 12k miles. Plus the thing eats tires like crazy. Not that Harley service is cheap if you take it to the dealer.
Ive gone back and forth between HD and Kawasaki many times, finally surrendered and got a 2015 Kaw Voyager...and love it. Each brand has their own thing..I love all kinds of bikes cruisers, touring, sport bikes, choppers, etc... My personal opinion especially for new riders is...try out every brand..and try out different types of bikes. You might be surprised on what you end up getting. Congrats on your BMW, those are awesome...im in a small town in north texas , so If I see you on the road ill wave!
Amen, Just landed on ur site and heard your play on HD vs BMW, and I too have a problem with your same issue's. Tho I'm more leaning towards the GSA and not the K. My biggest problem is like you the weight, and my age I'm sure contributes (76). The Lady with me stopped riding years ago after a couple of drops luck for me I never got her hurt. Just want something just over 500#s, and the GSA fits that bill and will go where this SG CVO just will not go. (I've tried) You and your bride enjoy the ride, and the views.
Thanks for this video! I have BMW cars and have contemplated which bagger to get HD vs BMW or Indian. BMW just know how to put it together well with less weight and power. It’s all aerodynamics and physics. I’m looking at tow Roctane R18 model. Enjoy the ride!
I owned only Harleys from 2008 to 2018. Love the bikes. Most of my riding is 2 up, me and my wife. In 2017 my M8 Street glide developed the transmission oil issue and after much time off the road I crossed over to BMW and bought an Rt. I hated that bike, it was so uncomfortable. My wife could only put up with the riding position for 20 miles, then we had to stop for a break. It was a real bad choice. I stuck with it, using it to go to and from work, hankering for another Harley. Then one day I walked into my bmw dealer with my wife and spotted a 2020 k1600 b for sale. It had been a bmw staff bike and had all the bells and whistles. The deal was really good and I bought the bike. It’s a great machine, handles like a dream, goes like a rocket, 2 up is not a problem, all my old Harley luggage fits on the passenger backrest. It puts a smile on my face every time I ride it. No clunking clattering engine when stuck in traffic on a hot day. But the big thing is when it came to my wife asking me if I’d like to buy a new Harley or have a new k1600b I knew instantly that although I love Harley’s the only bike that ticked all the boxes for me was the bmw. I know from reading some posts that in the US servicing is expensive but here in the UK the servicing costs for any bike are about the same, except for Ducati that is. I’m now in the process of buying a new K1600b, I feel sad in a way that it’s not a Harley, but at the moment Harleys don’t do what I need them to.
I feel your pain all too well on Harley-Davidson. I have a bike I’ve had for the past 12 years and dumped way too much money on it in the past year and a half. This is the second Harley Davison I’ve owned and I totally agree they are nothing but a money pit! The BMW 1600 b has really caught my eye and also agree about the Harley Davidson Soundsystem sounding better. Maybe in time BMW will address that issue to be more competitive.
I rode several CVO (owned) purchased a 2014 BMW GTL and never looked back. On my third BMW. I also do very long rides. Four corner ride of the US two(2) times and the true X ride once(15K) race in 19 days. so yes I ride and NEVER had a brake sown
Got my K1600 GA (Grand America) imperial blue with all the options last year! the technology is phenomenal! Never been happier! Tested the new Goldwing as well but it feels like riding a mini van! I suggest you test drive both as they are the best in their class! Bimmer is much more sportier and handles the twisty road much better.
I have owned 3 gold wings a 1985 a 2008 and 2016. I had one boss hoss with a 502 v8 ( big waste) now i have a k1600 b grand american and absolutely love it way more than my wings
I've never owned an HD. I do have a 2012 K1600GTL. I live in CT take it to Canada, VT, NH, NY... I've done track days, I've had it up to 130 MPH. It is all I need
Tengo una HD Street Glide 2020 y le he metido muchos accesorios, y en viajes de más de 3 horas mi esposa acaba molida, suspensión muy dura, y estoy por cambiarla por una K 1600 Gran America, y con tus reseñas me he convencido de que será mucho mejor opción la BMW PARA viajes largos
Your decision matrix sounds familiar. What happened to me was while a couple years into my 3rd HD (a gorgeous, tricked-out 2001 FLSTF), I went to Europe to do a MC tour of the Alps. I chose a R1100RT. "Interesting," I thought. That was 2002. That trip was so much fun that I went again in 2006. Again, I was on an RT (an 1150). Keeping up with some guys from Monterrey, MX, forced me into lean angles I never experienced on a Harley. Sometime about then it hit me: "Oh, my, so this is the difference between riding a Harley and "motorcycling...I think want to be motorcycling instead." Shortly after returning, I got a 2006 Gold Wing and doubled down with another in 2010. In 2014 I decided to up the ante again and bought a 2014 GTL. I'm on a 2018 now (with Bren Tuning!) and won't be looking back.
Best pure motorcycle i"ve i have ever rode a 1600 B had Harley's Love Gold wings. Took a test on the BMW had to have it Traded my wing for it. just love Don:t look back.I have one of the best bike out now.
Congrats on your new bike. The BMW 1600GT is not a direct competitor to your old bike. I think it’s a nice bike but I find hard to believe your wife is more comfortable on the BMW. Does the BMW come with a passenger back rest? I have a Road Glide Special with the 114 and it has more than enough power for passing and is faster than most cars even before mods. I think the weight of the Harley is an asset. I’ve been caught in 60 mph cross winds and I would not want to be on a lighter bike. The engine pulls the bike not me so weight is not an issue. I might test ride that BMW but I will keep my Harley. By the way I’ve always ridden sport bikes and still have a 1000 Ninja. I just bought my first Harley in 2021. Anyway, enjoy your bike Bro
Forget the speed comments, ya it’s a powerful mother, to me it’s smoother, quieter and a cooler motor. My better half and I are not burning up at a light in the summer.
Almost all the reasons you gave led me to buy a 2020 Triumph Rocket 3 GT over the BMW. Way more power in the Rocket than the BMW (over 200nms) it weighs 650 dry so much lighter than the BMW. The tech I will call a push. Comfort? i have over 40,000 miles on my GT (none of them commuting miles) and I still feel it is the most comfortable motorcycle seat I have sat on. Also did the Iron Butt ride actually going 1100 miles with comfort being the least of the challenges. Also the Rocket loves the twisties, not one cruiser, and very few sport bikes have passed me in the tight turns. Well, you asked for our opinions and I gave mine, lol. I am even thinking of getting a used BMW 1600 as a backup bike.
Thanks for the Video, well worth watching. I had a BMW Great handling bike and loved it except for all the visits to the shop to get things replaced while still under warranty ( Thanks for that ) My riding buddy Had 2 and the same problems, and the BMW dealer straight out lied to him when he was getting the second on saying all these problems had been fixd, they were not he got rid of pretty quick. Hope they have all these problems fixed. At 73 I want light good range and no need for high HP, or high speeds, Went with the KTM 390 Adventure and put some GIVI Trekker hard bags on it 33/46 liters Hear on the island it is more than enough but I do ride one up. Also have a DR650 witch I put a 20 liter gas tank on to give it some good range and a CRF 300 L set up for 90% off road, ( great off road bike but not for high speed gnarly stuff, ) Over the 55+ years I have been riding I find the Jap scrap and made in India the most maintenance free bikes. KTM Adventure is made in India. Hope you have better luck with the BMW than me and my buddy did with ours. I also like the feel of the wind on my chest, no need for wind protection. Road form Barry Ontario to Epworth Newfoundland hit the worst rain storm any one could remember and loved that ride. pretty well non stop, only for gas and one nights sleep, and of course seep on the fairy crossing. Also love being out on a light bike in strong winds, just feels great.
Hi, Ken here,I have been riding continuously for 67 years. I have never had less than 2 motorcycles. I have a 1985 Yamaha V-Max, and a 2005 Yamaha FJR 1300,both bought new. I went in to buy a new Harley, it was low on power, I road the BMW GRAND AMERICA, and wrote a check for it. It is the finest most refined motorcycle that i have ever been on. I will be 80 years old on my birthday
I rode Japanese bikes for over 30 years and finally satisfied my research in buying a BMW K 1600 GTL. My wife and I ride everywhere and nothing can beat this bike for the reasons you've listed. We used to ride 300 miles a day max and be terribly sore and fatigued from all the rumbling. Now we can ride 5-600 with no problem in a single day and not be sore. America just got smaller.
@huge asian x petite whiteHow can 'could', be a nonsese?
The Goldwing doesn’t have the power of the BMW; it’s not even close. Plus, the Goldwing is heavy and the side cases and trunk cannot be removed quickly. The Goldwing is nice. But it’s a couch with no performance. If you ride in straight lines you may have a point. But that’s not riding to me.
I’d go with the RT.Lighter, more than enough power, and that awesome boxer engine.👍🏻
Discuss market after 400000 miles on road glides. I took one ride on A GTL and Loved it immediately. You can't believe what it's like to finally ride a Fast great handling bike the weighs 200 pounds less than a Road glide
exactly
I have the K1600B, and I looooove riding this for hours…after 2 back surgeries, I needed a comfortable bike…but I didn’t want to sacrifice the power and handling. This bike had it all. The radio is pure crap though
The exact reason I’m thinking of trading my 12FLHTK in on a Goldwing Tour DCT. After 240,000 miles on 4 Ultras, and being 72 years old, I need something smoother, lighter, and quieter.
Went from a 2017 HD Limited CVO with every available upgrades at the time (+15K$ in upgrade) to a 2018 BMW GTL K1600...never regretted my decision. I nonetheless did lose some HOG friends along the way but was still worth it for my wife and l.
I have had the same experience with HOG members, I will add that the HOG chapter here seems a little more lenient than I thought and have asked me to ride with them more than once
@@TexasSmallTownRides No so, here!
yeah you lost some HOG friends in your rear view mirror with them topped out in 5 th gear and you in 3rd gear at 5,000 rpm with another 2,000 to a redline of 7,000 I have had a bmw k 1300 s that was a silver bullet. 150mph all day long... now that I'm 50 more cruising .... at 100 mph .... in 4 th gear.... lol
They weren’t friends
@@jeffsebastian2236 Indeed, they were not...now, of little relevance.
I also switched to a K1600 GTL from a Road King (which I still have) and later a Road Glide, and all of your points are right on. My wife as passenger favors the K1600 once I swapped the saddle for a Russell daylong, armrests, and a better windshield.That’s $2,500 in upgrades to make it fit, so the beemer isn’t immune from the money pit part, although it does much better.
Total cost of ownership overall is a wash, but I do much of my own maintenance except checking valve adjustment, but that’s done once at the 36k service (checking them more often is a waste)
My GTL eats rear tires for breakfast
On my longer touring trips, I would ride 400 miles a day on my Harley and I was beat. I can put 650+ miles on my GTL and still want more - it’s that good.
Canyon carving on my GTL puts an ear to ear grin on my face.
I never play the bike’s sound, so the lousy quality doesn’t bug me. I pipe music from my phone through my sena into speakers in my helmet on all bikes I have owned.
The one thing my wife misses is that awesome Harley rumble. The GTL sounds like a sewing machine.
It sounds like an after market exhaust swap is in order. :)
My wife is already saving the HD rumbles on her phone to listen to when riding. She may even put the sound in the videos she posts.
The Goldwing sounds like a sewing machine. The BMW just needs mufflers to help it.
I did a minor mod to the mufflers and now it’s sounds like a Formula 1 race car.
Look into the Arrow Sport Exhaust for the GTL, or REMUS it is really nice
I went to Switzerland 3 years ago for a 16-day ride around the country and ended up on a 2016 BMW K1600 GTL, it wasn't my first choice for the ride. It was an AMAZING TRIP! But the highlight of the ride was the bike! I came home and bought the same bike. Saturday February 12, 2022, I just bought a 2019 BMW K1600B (bagger)! Leaving tomorrow morning for a 6-day ride to Death Valley. Keeping the GTL
Hey thanks for the invite!!;)
Hi, Bert here from the Netherlands. Six months ago I traded in my 2002 Roadking classic for a 2014 BMW K1600GT. Man, what a difference!
I agree with you on all points except...the Harley sentiment. From an eye-catcher that shakes and makes noise to a sewing machine that can barely be heard. I miss that raw sound! This is already better with an Akrapovic exhaust, but the shortcoming remains...
Objective, concise with the right arguments. Whether the BMW is the best alternative remains to be seen. Thanks for the video and enjoy your ride!
I went from a 2008 Harley Street Glide that I bought new and loved to a 2021 BMW K1600B. Now I absolutely love the B and never looked back for many of the reasons that you articulated in your video. Nice job BTW... I agree that the BMW sound system sucks, but I use a Bluetooth-connected headset in my helmet that receives sound from my Iphone that is kept in the side case plugged into the bike's 12 volt system.
I have replaced the stock saddle with a Corbin 2-up saddle with dual heat and a backrest that can be used from the driver or pillion, added rear bag crash protection bars and bar-backs for the handle bars because I am short and these improvements have made the BMW fit me like a glove!
Great bike and I look forward to riding it as long as I rode my Harley!
Even though this video is 3yrs old, it hits on every single point on why I changed to a K1600B a month ago. #1 especially. I'm beyond over buying a new HD and immediatley have to dump 10k into it just to make it enjoyable to ride. Every HD I bought in the last 10 years needed bars, exhaust, tune, seat, stereo and suspension all around to start to make it enjoyable. Not to mention I was 29K OTD on the BMW and the newer Road Glide ST with a 117 was 36k OTD. The BMW out of the box only needed a taller windscreen and I changed to some shortly levers. Thats it. Good Suspension, Comfortable seat, Good technology, Seat and Grip heaters, Nice screen, nice lighting, center stand, central locking, and a quickshifter out of the box are some nice additions. HD needs to step it up and offer a better bike 'out of the box'. My K1600B runs circles around my former 131 Road Glide that I had 15k of mods into.
All valid points and I’ll throw in number six. You finally became mature enough not to feel the need to rev up your HD at EVERY STOP LIGHT. I ride a 2003 Goldwing and it had and has more tech as a stock 03’ than most brand new HD’s, congrats on your purchase !!
Thanks for the video
I have owned the following
2012 Road King Special
2016 Road Glide 103 in Denim Black
2019 Road Glide Special 114 in Billiard Blue
Wrecked the 19 whilst riding to Lake Highlands from DFW
Six months later looked at the
Concours 14
The FJR
The Goldwing DCT
Ended up with the K1600b love the bike miss my Harley but at his time I agree with your reasons
The K1600b sits like the Roadglide but rieesclike night and day
My only complaint is the Navi system is over priced
So I use my phone mounted to the bars -,just effective
BMW has a light flywheel.moving 6 small pistons. This make clutch control very hard . The hardest thing you will ever do on a motorcycle is slow speed maneuvering. . To me the clutch was very hard to find the friction zone and that very unsettling to me at stops on uphills. And even though the bmw weight less the my street glide. It felt top heavy at slow speed. Now on the open road these problems disappeared. Now my friend that rode a demo with me is a golding owner. He wasn't so kind on what he felt about the BMW. Glad you like it. . And good luck with it
I've owned both road bikes--Road King Classic, '06 and '08 Street Glides, 2012 and 2016 K16GT. I'm 59. I like both bikes, but I prefer the K16 for the power and performance. One key distinction for me was that I found my riding style changed considerably when riding the K16. When touring on the Harleys, I tend to notice more of the scenery. But, when touring on the K16, I tend to focus more on taking advantage of every curve in the road. For me, riding the K16 on a great road is like a great roller coaster ride, one that you want to ride to the end and rinse and repeat again and again. The K16 compels you to hit the throttle and enjoy what the road gives you, whereas the Harleys aren't as engaging in terms of thrills in the curves. I do enjoy great scenery, but I think I prefer hitting the K16's throttle in the curves even more.
My Dad’s buddy had a Harley that gave him nothing but trouble - a lemon. He took it back to the dealer several times and asked the mechanic what he should do since he had it in the shop more than he rode it. The Harley mechanic told him to buy a Honda Gold Wing. 🤔😳
LMAO, seems like I heard that same story 🤣
I’m glad you said it is your opinion! ! I believe if you ride long enough you will learn what every veteran rider knows motorcycles are like mates. When you find a bike that speaks to your soul you don’t have to do what you are doing here. When you love something or someone you don’t have to explain it to anyone. I tell people if you see me with the same woman or motorcycles it’s cause I love them! I will not explain it to anyone! That’s why you see so much diversity In people and bikes! Enjoy the bike you love brother!
Was going going to to say something - but you've summed it up well Ronald. Mad bad and dangerous, but can't help loving it. It does not need to make sense.
Totally agree on BMW my bikes in order. HD Springer which I rode in the 95th Anniversary ride next Peter Fonda, Willie G, Jay Leno and Eric Buell. Awesome experience. Honda Interceptor (2nd bike), Triumph Sprint (2nd bike), Ultra Classic, Deuce. Then moved from Milwaukee, WI to Scottsdale, AZ……, Interceptor, FJR1300, Honda Goldwing, R1200RT, Honda Goldwing, R1200RT, and another RT. BMW makes great bikes. Seriously considering the GTL1600. Love your videos 👍
I bought my ‘21 BMW K1600b a month ago and already crested 1000 miles. I can’t believe how much I love this motorcycle...it’s so plush, handles fabulous, and the tech is out of this world
Agree, Radio sucks man! Can’t wait to upgrade it
LoL yes BMW has a terrible radio
The stereo issue has been corrected on the 2022 model. I suggest using Cardo Packtalk with JBL speakers.
I made the change from a long term street glide owner to a K1600b, I started looking to change thanks to Harleys rear suspension hurting my back, I was looking at buying a new ultra and then having to spend thousands on aftermarket shocks, so I started looking around, then I fell in love with the K16b’s engine, been happy ever since, best bike I’ve ever owned.
You are right about the radio, but after using latest Sean/cardio systems, all fixed bike stereos are redundant, there cheaper and sound better, and you can jump on any bike your music comes with you, if you ride in a group mesh technology is awesome.
Troy, have you had any issues with your K1600b? And how many miles have you got?
@@timohansson3674 No trouble at all, I’ve got about 27000 km (16700 miles), on it, would have been a lot more without COVID
Yeah, I had to add legends shocks to my street glide it is definitely a rough rider without upgrading the suspension.
I have a GSA, the thing with BMW, is that they get the little details right, and the big ones too. For example, right angle valves on spoked wheels for easy inflation- and getting the suspension right, out of the box
@@martyn_g Spot on, they get the details right
To each their own. Everyone should be happy with the bike they own. All bikes are so much better today than 20 -50 years ago. Most manufacturers are adding new technology. Glad you like it.
I pulled the switch in 2000. Never looked back
A lot of the same reasons I went to a Harley Davidson's dealer in Dallas to pick-up my 2018 GTL K1600. I got lucky that the owner was a wealthy guy and to old to understand the electronics on the BMW, and decided to go with the Log instead and left me his almost brand new (6k miles) BMW at the dealer. The guy installed about $5k in upgrades that I inherited without paying the price for them (arm rests, whole sport exhaust system, led light upgrades, GPS system, storage rack, and some more). Plus since I am pretty mechanically incline I don't have to spend all the $$ some people talk about by going to a Motorrad shop to service my bike. I buy the OEM parts (oil, filter, crush washer/gasket, coolant, etc.) and I do it myself saving me the headache and making sure everything was done correctly in the 1st place. Maneuverability with the BMW is almost as good as riding my sport bike, speed HP and torque is great, comfort is excellent for myself and my wife. I just don't see me getting in a heavy Harley or even the Goldwing after trying the GTL; it wouldn't make any sense! The looks we get on the street every time we take it out are just another plus.
Only thing better than a new K1600 is a well maintained used one, congrats
Wealthy guy too old to understand the electronics? That’s funny. But probably not true. Just wanted to buy a bike he thought had the image he was after and ride with others who are about image.
Triggered? 😂😂😂🤣
Thank you for sharing your reasons. It’s definitely a great help and I have few of my friends who switched to BMW lately from different types of manufacturers which includes Ducati, Harley and Yamaha. Couple of those guys even completed ride from North Carolina to Alaska successfully with their new BMWs.
I've done the same thing for the same reasons but my replacement for our 2009 Harley CVO Ultra Classic's is the 2021 Goldwing Tour. My maintenance records for this Harley show almost $18,000 invested in repairs (upgrades for performance were done early on and not included in the repair costs). The 110 engine was apart seven times for just about every problem you could think of - top end, bottom end, . At 56,000 miles, the crank went out and almost everything else inside needed upgraded again. Harley's sound good and look cool but a lot of their performance and technology is lacking compared to the competition.
Hi Mike, i was about to ask the question to the forum here. Has anyone that switched to the BMW compared it to the new Honda Goldwing?
Thank you for your honest opinion. I am not a HD guy, although like you pointed out you can customize them like crazy. But I want the same exact things you said. Speed, upgrades and comfort for the wife. Plus the cost effect of them. Thanks again for an honest review.
All good points. I'll stick with my Harley for sentimental reasons.
Excellent video brother!! I've been riding for 60 years now and I'm a two time BMW owner and a 5 time Harley owner...BMW outshines Harley all day every day!! About to get my third BMW....a K1600B.....oh yeah...btw, you can customize almost any bike (even a BMW) the way you did your Harley....and no one gives a shit about a stereo....that's a moot point!! The one thing I really don't like about BMW is the $160.00/hour labor rate at the dealerships!!
do you need to use their dealerships for service or repairs vs warranty
@@hotdog9262 Warranty stuff mostly, and there isn't very much of that...I do just about all my own wrench work....
I’ve had most Tourer’s and always seem to end up with the BMW, like the video says! It’s the complete package once you get use to the winding engine noise, don’t get out much now but will keep my GTL only if it’s to just look at.
I went from hd to bmw,r1200t 480 lbs 110 hp ,love it,price was less than a used sportster.6 gallon gas tank is a bonus.
I have been riding for over 45 years had bmw k1200lt 1600glte r1200rt goldwing 1800 vrod suzuki gs1150 yamaha turbo and a few smaller bikes. Now I ride a ultra limited one of my favorite bikes so far. With over 60 thousand kilometers without a single problem just oil and tires. Drive safe.
I have been debating this for a few years now, love the K1600 and love the power and experience!! Wish I could rent one for a good 2000 mile ride
come on over we can go out and ill let yah ride my 22gtl
One advantage of the heavy Harley is I go past a semi and it's not moving me at all or a heavy cross wind is no match for the Ultra on the open road.
Yes, you said it right, Harley makes good motorcycle radios.
You have the most common complaints about an HD, and frankly, I never considered the 1600 when I was deciding between the two. I rode, and checked out the new bagger bikes, and for various reasons, I still felt the best option was the HD. I took the Street Special. BUT! I DID give up the technology for sure. I'm glad to see the MSRP is the same, and I'm not sure how much BMW negotiates on their saddles, but it looks like my out-of-pocket would have been roughly the same with tax, warranty, etc. I've upgraded five things on the bike, but that was my limit because as you mention you can continually dump $$$ into the machines with this or that, and it can get old for sure. As for fast, I have the 114, with the Stage II, and it's plenty for my old bones at this point.
1 have a 2018 bmwk1600 B. I totally agree with every point you said. I upgraded my exhaust with a Remus exhaust as well as upgraded speakers. I used marine aqua speakers with 100 amp per speakers. I did hook up a blue tooth connector to the stock AUX connector. NO STAGE 4 needed. right off the sale room floor. 160 horse power in Road mode. turn on the Dynamic mode you better hang on. Best thing about a BMW for me is this. BMW is the ONLY motorcycle company that offers the following EASY RIDE program. you take the selling price of the bike lets say $25,000 and you cut the total in 1/2. so $12,500 then you make payments on that amount for 4 years. at the end of the 4 years you can trade it back in for a new model OR make payments on the remaining $12500. Basically a lease for a motorcycle. no need to drop the whole $25,000 on a new bike. Also love the point that a Harley CVO is around mid to upper $38,000 then add in the Factory 47 inch bars, Rhienhart Exhaust say hello to $42,000 and still can't compare to what you get for a BMW. heated grips, seat, Adaptive Head lights that are brighter then most car lights. in line 6 motor the same as a bmw 318 i automobile. ABS brakes, traction control 3 ride modes including rain mode (less power to the wheels) BRembo brakes. movable windscreen. and like you said Tech. Tech and more TECH. and a very comfortable riding position.
Love your comments and agree with them. I have a Harley and an Indian (which is much better than the Harley) but I will be picking up my Grand America in two weeks. I just feel at my age (70) that its time for lighter bike with reverse so I can continue to enjoy this sport for more years.
Agree 100%... I have a BMW Grand America and an Ultra. For a while I preferred the Ultra for long highway rides bc it was more stable at high speeds ( due to the weight ) . The BMW was a little jittery on the highway until i added the wind deflectors which settled the bike down . I still enjoy the Ultra for what it is... Old school and very mechanical... but the BMW does EVERYTHING well !
I understand. I have about $45k in a Street Glide changing literally everything. I just bought a K1600GTL because I rode it and loved the engine. Now I have two. Both are paid off so that helps.
You have all the HD riders a wake up call. Great videos!
What can I say? I have owned Harleys and presently own 2, including a Limited that I upgraded with the Stage III kit and headers. And a whole bunch of other things too… And it is a good performer…for a touring Harley. I tested the ‘24 K1600B recently at Bike Week and found it to be better than the Harley in every measurable way. It would flat smoke any Harley outside of a race-prepped bike. So I’m selling another underutilized bike and considering the Grand America variant. I want the option of the top case and the taller windshield. But you are absolutely right and it is entirely possible that after owning Harleys for most of my adult life I’ve bought my last one.
I did add a few things to my BMW k1600B that has made it more comfortable for me. Aftermarket windshield , heel/toe shifter, drivers backrest, handle bar risers and side wings. It's PERFECT !
Which aftermarket windshield?
Just saw this video 2 years later, and I love your comments. I picked up a 2022 BMW GTL almost a year ago and really like it. And even though it has that nice 10.25" TFT screen, the navigation on it using the Connected App is subpar, and it lacks CarPlay which I'd really like. And here it is 2023 and HD just released their new CVO lineup, and yes, they're not cheap! But... I really like what HD did with their 12" TFT screen which also has CarPlay. And the new 121 VVT engine seems very good. I've never had a HD before, but the new CVO Street Glide still piques my interest. Though it's still heavier than the GTL, does not have a reverse gear feature and still has manual rear shock adjustment. And at the base price of $43k and $46k with the top-box option package which I'd need for us travelling, we're looking at over $50k OTD! Still, this 2023 CVO Street Glide still intrigues me, I love the looks and I wish I had $50k to get it.
Bless you brother, had a 19 Roadglide special, had 4 other roadglides. Love roadglides. Bought k1600b, I never looked back.
I made the same switch for the same reasons. HD Ultra Limited to a K1600 GT. Totally agree with you...
One thing I learned over the years in my personal quest for speed is, when you get a faster bike it only feels faster for a little while. We (or at least me) grow accustomed to the speed. After a while the sensation subsidies.
That's right. Until you bust your ass on it. I knew I should've got a mini bike 😝
I totally agree, I owned 6 Harleys before I actually went to BMW. I first owned a R1200GS, great bike as I do a lot of long distance. Then traded in for a K1600 Bagger, did not like the way it handled in the highway, the airfoils create LIFT and the bike is unstable, Then I moved to a R1250GSA HP, wonderful…again the very best, but I dreamed of having a K1600 GTL, got it and enjoyed a long trip, wonderful bike, but cannot be compared to the R1250GSA, so then and now, I am back to a 2022 R1250GSA again and for long distances and for the unexpected, there is NOTHING you can compare out there.
Well said, I am about to the same thing , but second hand .Going from a 2004 road king to a 2008 bmw k1200 GT
I just purchased the 2022 K1600 B, loving it. Smart move on your part, its a better mount for us 50+ riders. Your hardcore Harley buddies are probably calling you a benedict arnold, but hey, its about survival and enjoying life. :)
I was ready to get the new Harley Street Glide ST but then when test riding one the air filter hits you in the shin, above 50MPH or so the wind buffeting is terrible and the engine heat because they run so hot will burn your right leg. To cure the buffeting you need to install the fork mounted wind deflectors and to cure the heat problem there are so many things that needs to be done. Plus where I live the BMW K1600 B model has replaced more than a few Harleys and is Hells Angels approved as I know of 6 members who own and ride them.
I’ve ridden Harley Davidson Motorcycles for the last 30 years. I’ve had several of them including the Dyna Wide Glide, Road King, CVO Softail Convertible, Bad Boy Springer, Street Glide, Road Glide Ultra, and finally a 2021 Heritage Classic 114. After one ride on a K 1600 GTL, I sold the Heritage and I am picking up my K 1600 GTL in 2 weeks. I am doing it for the exact reasons that you stated in the video.
Excellent presentation...I am contemplating the very same move...thanks for helping make the decision.
anytime
Agree 100%. I'm on my 6th touring bike since 2006. Four Roadglide's, one Ultra Classic, and a 2012 Goldwing. My current is a 2021 Roadglide Special. I have sunk $42K into it which includes $12K in upgrades. A true money pit! I am less than 24 hours from committing to purchase a 2022 K1600 GTL Option 719 or walk away and loose an opportunity to own my 1st BMW. Here is why I am considering a BMW. In May 2022 I logged 7K miles in 28 days on my Roadglide while participating in the XXXII annual Run for the Wall. At the end of each day I was exhausted and saddle sore. The folks on BMW's and Goldwing's were ready for dinner and dancing. I am 70 years old and in good physical shape and I am sure my exhaustion was partially due to my age but I also think operating that big heavy Harley also had something to do with it. Last week I test rode a 2021 GTL and it was awesome. However, I just don't if the GTL will help with my long ride endurance. So I have until tomorrow morning to decide ar take the chance of someone else snatching the GTL away.
Jerry...what did you end up doing
@@bsimondsen BMW cost of ownership was a big concern. I ended up with a 2021 Honda Goldwing Tour DCT.
Exactly the same reasons I traded my 2020 Harley in for my 2023 bmw GTL1600. Great video.
Just did the same thing--no regrets. Amazing performance on the BMW.
In 2016 I was going to buy a street glide special... I rode a R1200RT. Best bike I ever had. Have a k16000b.. other best bike I own .. what you get for your money puts Harley to shame.
My experiences I started with a sportster many years ago it was a ‘72. Moved to the metric bikes Honda sports bikes , Suzuki ( vstrom , bandit) Yamaha ( fz1 fjr. ) BMW 1150 GS Most were great bikes. The biggest issue I had were parts availability. The FJR fried it’s mail electrical harness. That took 3 months to get handled. The side cases , I lost one it just flew off. All the Japanese bikes engines were well taken care of and I could get around 50k before they needed work which is not too bad since they are high rpm bikes.
The BMW I had electric problems from the start. Corrosion on wires was the cause and that was handled the big issue was when I had the master cylinder fail. That took 6 months to get a replacement. Then a lot of warranty hassles.
So when. I got a new bike I got wants I started with an HD. Is it the fastest. No. Is it $$ for what you get? yes. The thing that I like is the fit and finish’s is very good vs the metrics , the dealer network, and the resale value is still excellent vs other bikes.
Jimmy and I were just talking about resale and dealer network. You are correct about both. HD network is the best in the US market, no one can compete. I am doing my research into resale value and may end up doing a video on that very soon. Thanks for engaging with us.
The new Road Glides have great tech, the bigger M8 has excellent power, and I liked the handling and brakes. It is very heavy, and there is no easy way to move it around when seated and loaded.
Very good comparison of touring on a Harley vs BMW. Thanks for posting.
Amen brother been riding HDs since 1982. Wouldn’t pay the price for a CVO!and looked at all the other manufacturers. Ended up with a 2018 K1600 Grand America. I’m over 27K on the speedo and lovin it. My local HOG club guys love razing me but they see it does everything better.
PS I could part with my ultra classic, it’s way to pretty.
Past bikes included Roadglide w\ stage 4 & thunder headers, Gold wing, … I passed on BMW in 2014 due to no dealer local; I went with the Gl1800. At 5ft6, lower seat, decent lights,… still needed more mods to “feel right.” My wing was about $12k past MSRP and still could have changed more. Saw the K1600 used, was about 20% less than a comparable Wing.
2022- I picked up a ‘14 GTL. It’s like my wing , after a trip to the fat farm, add traction, a speed module, driving and decent headlights( OEM gold wing lights simply SUCK!) Anyway, less money and performance that I never expected! No going back now..
If I had to do it again, I think I’d repeat all of it just to be able to feel the difference. Honda has a P.R. Machine pitching half the bike for the same , if not significantly more for the under performing( I can only say that now) Honda. I live in Puerto Rico where the twisties make the tail of the dragon look like a mellow country drive. No way my Gl1800 would read the road texture with its detached for the driving experience suspension system.
Gold Wing enjoys a multimillion dollar hype machine to attract us to the shiny lure of the lesser bike. Ride a used K1600, leave the wing in the showroom. Plus 42 mpg highway@ 75 mpg avg.. wing~ 34.
I’m a convert!
I bought my BMW K1600 GA 2022 since a month , drove it for 2000+ km now, it is really amazing so fast and handling is great
I have never felt Harley delivered anything near close to the competitor bikes. Every BMW I have ever owned was awesome. Harley always disappointed me with performance and power and you chase it with a Ton of money. I got fed up finally and sold all my Harley’s and bought a used R1200RT. Love it and like you, I’m heading toward a K1600B. I wish you very many happy miles 🫵🏻👍🏻
Returned to riding at 48 on a BMW F900XR, and it has been a great bike to return on - very nimble, upright seating, & very torquey for low speed maneuverability. But looking to my next bike, more touring capabilities with the sport.
Test ride the Harley low rider ST - 117, fairing, small chassis. Very nice big - turns with the effort of a school bus and has the tech of a 1980’s calculator for $22k???
Sorry, Harley maybe a lifestyle as mentioned by another commenter - but that “lifestyle” is setting the bar very low and paying to much for it.
Based on my 20 minute test ride - this video is spot on!!!
I have a K1600GA on order 2023 in Manhattan Metallic Matte… hope you are still loving your GTL… best of all the GA is only 28K and has all of the goodies that the GTL has. Whoop, Whoop
ordered a 719 '23 to replace my current gtl
Hi,
I bought the 2018 Bmw K1600 GTL brand new.
Planet blue metallic with brown leather seats option 719 , all options.
Couldn’t be happier.😄
Comfort and performance in a superb combination in my opinion.
Won’t trade it in, it’s a keeper for sure!!!
I picked up a 2020 GTL new in 2021 from OKC BMW. I'm in Pa and was looking for the sparkling bronze metallic, hard to find but they had one. It was a 719 option. I added the sattle brown seat and Akrapovic HP exhaust. I wanted something sporty, fast, handled well, and comfortable enough to do long days coast to coast. I must say I got just that. This machine is fantastic. I rode it in OK and KS to break it in. They did the 600mile service to next day, and I rode the long way back to Pa. Ten days later rode to Yosimite Ca. seven months and 20k later I know I got the right bike. All the HD touring bikes are nice. I like the Roadglide the best,but when you compare price for what you get it's not close. I think he hit it on the head.
I went from a 2005 ultraglide to a Victory Vision and the suspension was so much better along with the handling. Now I am going to a 2018 BMW K1600GTL. I am expecting that in the long run it is going to be the PERFECT long distance bike. I am getting to have more free time as I get older and am hoping to take more long distance vacations. Picking it up a week from today!! WOOHOO!
let me kniw how it goes, atill loving my '20
My favorite part of this video was, you wearing a Harley shirt through the duration! I actually like the fact that K1600 are much rarer up here than Harleys, and to me all Harley's look the same if they have windscreens, no matter the amount spend on customizing. I had no idea they had a surprisingly lower power to weight ratio too. Hmm, must be popular for character and history.
I’ve been riding over 30 years, mostly Japanese sport bikes. I eventually bought a Harley for 2up riding. I would have loved to buy a Goldwing or a K1600 but I am sick of all the plastic. Plastic everywhere, you can barely see the motor, it’s crazy that they have to cover it up. Sure, aerodynamics play a role but I’d rather see the motor, not plastic. Harley’s have come a long way, sure they are down on power but they handle way better than they did prior to 2014. Harley’s hold their value too, take a look at what a k1600 is worth after 5 or 6 years.
I had a 1500 aspencade 1994…. Went to Harley just looking ended up letting them talk me into buying a 2022 roadking special . I can’t wait to trade in this bike.
Cool discussion I rode enduros when was in high school miss it so much honestly looking at small displacement bikes as a supplement to my aging body but still have better suspensions to handle the few dirt roads round where I live
Thanks for tuning in:)
Try the Yamaha t7, fantastic bike, good on the dirt and road and highly customizable.
Liked the video. You made some great points. I test rode a gtl when they first came out. My wife and I were both impressed. After that is was kind of hard to ride home on our k1200lt. Long story short, the gtl is a much better bike in many ways, all of which you covered. But like many things in life maybe when I grow up and save all my bubble gum money I just might buy one. I'm pushing 60 now and maybe it is time to get something faster. Sounds like a plan to me. Keep riding like there's no tomorrow, enjoy the trips and memories you and your wife share together, who knows if we ever find our to the great state of Texes, I'll be sure to wave and smile and share a tale or two with you all. Till then my friend cheers!
Completely agree with you. Another reason for me is the suspensions. Totally unsuitable here on Italian roads....every run is a massacre for the back!
I agree with all 5 reasons,especially the customizable part. my biggest regret was getting my Harley because if I want to have someone ride I have to upgrade seat and shocks and then I’m gonna need more powers and have to upgrade the engine then I’m gonna need better handling so I gotta upgrade the suspension and it just goes on and on. It’s an expensive after thought in my garage. The seating positions like sitting in the chair at the dinner table and being really top heavy. I just don’t feel connected to the bike in corners sitting like that. I choose my 2022 Rocket 3R for all my riding. The seating position is great for me. I need to find a tourer that fits me and Harley is definetly not it.
Hi, I just went threw the same thing you did except I had a Indian challenger. Don’t get me wrong the challenger is a great bike , I had the lloydz cams,tune, and exhaust the bike ran great but it still wasn’t where I wanted it to be. My 1600B will be delivered on 1-5-23 and can’t wait to ride if from what all the reviews have said about it
Same story as 52 years ago when I brought my Honda CB750 and wondered why Harleys were so slow and uncomfortable. An I7 is the best configuration for long highway trips.
Finally! An HD (former owner) who has done a comparison BMW vs. HD. All good points, and yes, you are correct about the cost. A fully dressed HD out runs a fully dressed BMW GTL/GA. Thanks for this vid. I currently ride a 2018 GA and just subed to your channel!
Thank you for the sub
I know a guy who rides a K1600GTL.
Maintenance seems to cost more.. valve checks get him every 12k miles. Plus the thing eats tires like crazy.
Not that Harley service is cheap if you take it to the dealer.
Valves at 18k cost 1k. HD is by far a less expensive motorcycle when it comes to maintenance cost.
Ive gone back and forth between HD and Kawasaki many times, finally surrendered and got a 2015 Kaw Voyager...and love it. Each brand has their own thing..I love all kinds of bikes cruisers, touring, sport bikes, choppers, etc... My personal opinion especially for new riders is...try out every brand..and try out different types of bikes. You might be surprised on what you end up getting. Congrats on your BMW, those are awesome...im in a small town in north texas , so If I see you on the road ill wave!
Amen, Just landed on ur site and heard your play on HD vs BMW, and I too have a problem with your same issue's. Tho I'm more leaning towards the GSA and not the K.
My biggest problem is like you the weight, and my age I'm sure contributes (76). The Lady with me stopped riding years ago after a couple of drops luck for me I never got her hurt.
Just want something just over 500#s, and the GSA fits that bill and will go where this SG CVO just will not go. (I've tried) You and your bride enjoy the ride, and the views.
Thanks for this video! I have BMW cars and have contemplated which bagger to get HD vs BMW or Indian. BMW just know how to put it together well with less weight and power. It’s all aerodynamics and physics.
I’m looking at tow Roctane R18 model. Enjoy the ride!
I owned only Harleys from 2008 to 2018. Love the bikes. Most of my riding is 2 up, me and my wife.
In 2017 my M8 Street glide developed the transmission oil issue and after much time off the road I crossed over to BMW and bought an Rt. I hated that bike, it was so uncomfortable. My wife could only put up with the riding position for 20 miles, then we had to stop for a break. It was a real bad choice. I stuck with it, using it to go to and from work, hankering for another Harley. Then one day I walked into my bmw dealer with my wife and spotted a 2020 k1600 b for sale. It had been a bmw staff bike and had all the bells and whistles. The deal was really good and I bought the bike. It’s a great machine, handles like a dream, goes like a rocket, 2 up is not a problem, all my old Harley luggage fits on the passenger backrest. It puts a smile on my face every time I ride it. No clunking clattering engine when stuck in traffic on a hot day. But the big thing is when it came to my wife asking me if I’d like to buy a new Harley or have a new k1600b I knew instantly that although I love Harley’s the only bike that ticked all the boxes for me was the bmw.
I know from reading some posts that in the US servicing is expensive but here in the UK the servicing costs for any bike are about the same, except for Ducati that is.
I’m now in the process of buying a new K1600b, I feel sad in a way that it’s not a Harley, but at the moment Harleys don’t do what I need them to.
I feel your pain all too well on Harley-Davidson. I have a bike I’ve had for the past 12 years and dumped way too much money on it in the past year and a half. This is the second Harley Davison I’ve owned and I totally agree they are nothing but a money pit! The BMW 1600 b has really caught my eye and also agree about the Harley Davidson Soundsystem sounding better. Maybe in time BMW will address that issue to be more competitive.
I rode several CVO (owned) purchased a 2014 BMW GTL and never looked back. On my third BMW. I also do very long rides. Four corner ride of the US two(2) times and the true X ride once(15K) race in 19 days. so yes I ride and NEVER had a brake sown
Finally, someone who shares my views on the obvious. I’m comparing the K1600, and the Gold Wing now to replace my Road King.
Got my K1600 GA (Grand America) imperial blue with all the options last year! the technology is phenomenal! Never been happier! Tested the new Goldwing as well but it feels like riding a mini van! I suggest you test drive both as they are the best in their class! Bimmer is much more sportier and handles the twisty road much better.
Bmw rt is another great option, not so much power like the K1600 but way lighter with a different geometry.
I agree. I'm looking at a 2022 GTL tomorrow. I have a '19 RGS and I like it, but the GTL has more power and more tech, and costs less!
I have owned 3 gold wings a 1985 a 2008 and 2016. I had one boss hoss with a 502 v8 ( big waste) now i have a k1600 b grand american and absolutely love it way more than my wings
I traded my Harley Davidson Street Glide for a BMW R1250GS. I haven't looked back yet.
I've never owned an HD. I do have a 2012 K1600GTL. I live in CT take it to Canada, VT, NH, NY... I've done track days, I've had it up to 130 MPH. It is all I need
Debating going from a 2009 Kawasaki VN 1700, to this. I love the classic look on the VN, but for some reason this K1600 just shines :)
Tengo una HD Street Glide 2020 y le he metido muchos accesorios, y en viajes de más de 3 horas mi esposa acaba molida, suspensión muy dura, y estoy por cambiarla por una K 1600 Gran America, y con tus reseñas me he convencido de que será mucho mejor opción la BMW PARA viajes largos
Your decision matrix sounds familiar. What happened to me was while a couple years into my 3rd HD (a gorgeous, tricked-out 2001 FLSTF), I went to Europe to do a MC tour of the Alps. I chose a R1100RT. "Interesting," I thought. That was 2002. That trip was so much fun that I went again in 2006. Again, I was on an RT (an 1150). Keeping up with some guys from Monterrey, MX, forced me into lean angles I never experienced on a Harley. Sometime about then it hit me: "Oh, my, so this is the difference between riding a Harley and "motorcycling...I think want to be motorcycling instead." Shortly after returning, I got a 2006 Gold Wing and doubled down with another in 2010. In 2014 I decided to up the ante again and bought a 2014 GTL. I'm on a 2018 now (with Bren Tuning!) and won't be looking back.
Best pure motorcycle i"ve i have ever rode a 1600 B had Harley's Love Gold wings. Took a test on the BMW had to have it Traded my wing for it. just love Don:t look back.I have one of the best bike out now.
I'm also done with Harley-Davidson trading for a bmw shortly 😊
Thank you for articulating the greatness of the GTL.
Congrats on your new bike. The BMW 1600GT is not a direct competitor to your old bike. I think it’s a nice bike but I find hard to believe your wife is more comfortable on the BMW. Does the BMW come with a passenger back rest? I have a Road Glide Special with the 114 and it has more than enough power for passing and is faster than most cars even before mods. I think the weight of the Harley is an asset. I’ve been caught in 60 mph cross winds and I would not want to be on a lighter bike. The engine pulls the bike not me so weight is not an issue. I might test ride that BMW but I will keep my Harley. By the way I’ve always ridden sport bikes and still have a 1000 Ninja. I just bought my first Harley in 2021. Anyway, enjoy your bike Bro
All correct and i think only big issue with bmw is the cost & complexity of the maintenance... hard to reach parts and dealing with 24 valves...
Forget the speed comments, ya it’s a powerful mother, to me it’s smoother, quieter and a cooler motor. My better half and I are not burning up at a light in the summer.
Almost all the reasons you gave led me to buy a 2020 Triumph Rocket 3 GT over the BMW. Way more power in the Rocket than the BMW (over 200nms) it weighs 650 dry so much lighter than the BMW. The tech I will call a push. Comfort? i have over 40,000 miles on my GT (none of them commuting miles) and I still feel it is the most comfortable motorcycle seat I have sat on. Also did the Iron Butt ride actually going 1100 miles with comfort being the least of the challenges. Also the Rocket loves the twisties, not one cruiser, and very few sport bikes have passed me in the tight turns. Well, you asked for our opinions and I gave mine, lol. I am even thinking of getting a used BMW 1600 as a backup bike.
I have also considered the rocket III, no dealerships here will let you test drive one ever.
Thanks for the Video, well worth watching. I had a BMW Great handling bike and loved it except for all the visits to the shop to get things replaced while still under warranty ( Thanks for that ) My riding buddy Had 2 and the same problems, and the BMW dealer straight out lied to him when he was getting the second on saying all these problems had been fixd, they were not he got rid of pretty quick. Hope they have all these problems fixed. At 73 I want light good range and no need for high HP, or high speeds, Went with the KTM 390 Adventure and put some GIVI Trekker hard bags on it 33/46 liters Hear on the island it is more than enough but I do ride one up. Also have a DR650 witch I put a 20 liter gas tank on to give it some good range and a CRF 300 L set up for 90% off road, ( great off road bike but not for high speed gnarly stuff, ) Over the 55+ years I have been riding I find the Jap scrap and made in India the most maintenance free bikes. KTM Adventure is made in India. Hope you have better luck with the BMW than me and my buddy did with ours. I also like the feel of the wind on my chest, no need for wind protection. Road form Barry Ontario to Epworth Newfoundland hit the worst rain storm any one could remember and loved that ride. pretty well non stop, only for gas and one nights sleep, and of course seep on the fairy crossing. Also love being out on a light bike in strong winds, just feels great.