"We're taking too much damage to survive" means too much damage to survive the storm itself, not the ocean. What immediately comes to mind is the risk of them capsizing, or even just too much water on board for them to bail out while in the storm.
this. also, some repairs could have been done during Luck runs out and first part of keep your friends close, between them harpooning island and them leaving with bag
@@danylonazarov Agreed. Honestly, depending on crew size, they could easily handle repairs while moving. If there was something they couldn't handle (i.e. irreperable damage to the hull) they would have sunk long before meeting Poseidon.
I’ve always pictured it as Odysseus leading his ship the most successfully while the other ships took more damage as they tried to follow him, Eurylochus is the voice of the whole crew (not just those on Odysseus’ boat) so his lines can be sung referring to other ships (Odysseus responds to “Captain, we will capsize with thesе waves, our fleet will fail” with “Have them follow my ship, I'll ensure that we prevail”, that makes more sense as a response if it’s the other ships that are having trouble while they are having less)
@@ezracohen6020 I think it's the entire fleet - including Odysseus' ship - that are at risk of capsizing from the storm. Odysseus always speaks with confidence that he'll get them out of any situation, but often he asks for faith first, and devises a plan, second. I always took it as him BELIEVING he'd be able to navigate the storm, hence ordering the ships to follow him. But that belief was based on his own ability to always find a path forward. Rather than him actually seeing a safe path forward to lead his men through the storm. After all, what he ends up doing to outlast the storm is have everyone anchor to the floating island while he got a god to trap the storm in a bag. Most certainly not something he had planned for when telling his fleet to follow him.
@@yuukinoyuki9064 I would argue that the belief is based on skill, there are definitely times he exhibits hubris but I don’t think this is one of them (the way he interacts with gods almost as equals shows much more hubris), I think this is more just him knowing what he’s capable of
Obviously this doesn't happen in Epic itself, but Eurylochus being so wary of the gods is very justified when you remember that the Odyssey happens after the Iliad and the Trojan War, where a ton of different gods all stuck their hands in and messed around with the humans. All these men have very real experience with how powerful and dangerous the gods can be, they lived through a war basically designed by them. So even if in Epic they haven't been outright attacked by any gods at the point of Luck Runs Out, Eurylochus's wariness definitely checks out
not even basically started by them, it _was_ started by them. it all started because Eris threw the Golden Apple into the banquet dedicated to "the most beautiful goddess", leading to the Judgement of Paris and the kidnapping of Helen.
49:15 Common misconception, 14 men actually died in the cave, not 7. Jorge confirmed that Odysseus came out with half of the men he went in with (28 / 2 = 14), and that every thud in Survive after Polites died counts as a soldier dead.
My guess is he didn't come with just the crew on his ship, but from multiple ships. Probably to make it easier to distribute food upon return to the fleet.
I hadn't thought about the other ship, I assumed all were in the main ship since Polytes was there, you are right, we can confirm six died from Odysseus' ship, but as for the rest, you can argue the other were in other ship in the beginning.
Storm has one of my favourite lyrical moments When the crew reprise full speed ahead, Odysyus cuts in his verse where the first word matches so it's "full speed a- head towards the island"
About the lack of fear in Ody's voice during Ruthlessness, I'd argue it makes perfect sense. Ody is a character with an intense hubris, and at that point in the song, as far as he can tell, he's been offered a perfect and easy way out by Poseidon, so he lets his ego get to his head. Not only does he waste the chance (which Poseidon probably never took seriously in the first place) with his false apology, but he's cocky about it _because_ he thinks it's so easy. Avoiding certain death by utilizing your wits and charisma, outsmarting a God? Why, none of his brethren in the Trojan War would have feats nearly as grand. It is the ultimate glory to bring back to Ithaca and, most importantly, to himself.
That's why i think Zeus talked about it in Thunder Bringer. Under all that mercy and stuff, there was a hidden pride. Zeus, from the very beginning, saw through his bullshit, (i dont think you're ready), and might have been the only one to do so. (Hiding away where only i can undress her). He's all smug and prideful, but when Zeus came into the picture, all of that pride was suddenly nowhere to be found. Poseidon might have only thought of it as Ody's naivety and hopefulness, but Zeus came in and directly called Ody out on his pride. He was there to show Ody that his cocky attitude isnt gonna work on him, Zeus, the king of the gods himself.
30:53 "All you gotta do is *not open this bag* " as long as it was clpsed it didn't matter, he didn't need to hold it closed just make sure it never opened.
- Something to note as well: Odysseus WOULD have normally given Eury the bag, and they would take turns. However, after the talk during ‘Luck Runs Out’, he doesn’t trust Eury fully enough for this task. Hence why Ody stays awake for 9 days.
I do think something that is easily forgotten is that Ody is an outlier. Ody is quite nonchalant about involving/talking to Gods because Athena has been so present in his life. But for the average mortal? The Gods are respected but feared. So, it makes sense for Eurylochus to be so fearful of directly involving a God. I wouldn't be surprised if Eurylochus thought Ody was just poking a holy bear. (They can never make me hate you, Eurylochus)
Oh, you jerks. I was so ready for that "I'M THE SAME" and you robbed me of it!😂 It's my favorite line in the whole musical, hands down, no contest. It's so perfectly appropriate, yet so painfully prophetic. It's perfect.
In the actual Odyssey the only time they ever do repairs on the ships are at Aeolous' island Aeolia (which does float, but on water, meaning it's not attached to the earth) and then again when their last ship arrives on Circe's island, Odysseus and Eurylochus pull straws to decide who leads which group, and Eurylochus pulls the short stick meaning he went to investigate the island with a group of men and hunt too while Odysseus remained with the rest to repair the ship
I've always interpreted the aeolous and Odysseus deal as less of a deal and more of a challange. She dosent get anything but amusement.This Version of her seems to be the type of god to do that Aeolous gave ody the chance to challange his trust with his crewmates by giving him the bag. Had ody just managed to build the trust with his crewmates more then they would have trusted him and not open that bag. So she gave him something that could either help with his journey or make it harder,fully depending on himself (although this is more of a tired ramble than anything so this may not even make sense😭)
I'm finally caught up with all your reactions and I just wanna leave a comment to tell you how thankful I am that I have found you both. I've been struggeling alot with my mental health lately and while catching up with the thunder sage I found your reaction videos to the musical and started watching all of them the past weeks. And you've really helped me to keep going and feel better because of how invested you both are into epic but also with how authentic you two are. I sometimes find it hard to be excited about things but your excitement, your joy, your honest reactions and real tears have touched me and showed me again that it's okay to be excited and hyped about something you love. I really hope you will keep going for a long time!! Lots of love from germany
Did anyone else JUST NOTICE THE PIANO BACKING in luck runs out? … just me? The fact Athena just left and is watching through Poseidons storm… that she is still hoping that Odysseus sees reason… that he apologizes to her… sends a message ANYTHING! It’s just *cheffs kiss*
47:49 No, in the Odyssey, all the ships of the fleet minus Odysseus' were destroyed by the Laestrygonians trowing giant rocks: Book X: "thousands of sturdy Laestrygonians sprang up from every quarter- ogres, not men. They threw vast rocks at us from the cliffs as though they had been mere stones, and I heard the horrid sound of the ships crunching up against one another, and the death cries of my men, as the Laestrygonians speared them like fishes and took them home to eat them. While they were thus killing my men within the harbour I drew my sword, cut the cable of my own ship, and told my men to row with alf their might if they too would not fare like the rest; so they laid out for their lives, and we were thankful enough when we got into open water out of reach of the rocks they hurled at us. As for the others there was not one of them left. " You are making confusion with the attempt by the blind Polyphemus to sink Odysseus' ship by trowing a rock, which failed by a inch: Book IX "Then he picked up a rock much larger than the first, swung it aloft and hurled it with prodigious force. It fell just short of the ship, but was within a little of hitting the end of the rudder. The sea quaked as the rock fell into it, and the wash of the wave it raised drove us onwards on our way towards the shore of the island."
I'm so happy they also felt like Luck Runs Out was faster! I listened to it a few weeks ago and actually checked to see if I accidentally had my music sped up
The stream animatic felt even faster for me as well, with how the background changes to quickly. I love Luck Runs Out though so I'm a bit surprised when they said it was a controversial song and it ranks so low. Personally Storm would be a low rank because the content of it is pretty simple to me.
@@SunSlayerKD I can understand sort of why it might be controversial. I first heard this before Ocean Saga came out so I heard a version that was clips put together. At the time some of the phrases were sung differently and it was out of context, so it wasn't being compared by the two songs that are before and after it. I remember that I was obsessed with "Luck Runs Out" because of the lyrics and it reminded me a little of "Wait For It" (in subject and vibe, not sound). It was the first Epic song I ever heard and it will always be special (and a song that I can't help but love) because it brought me here. When Ocean Saga came out, something about it felt very different and I wasn't sure if I liked it and I've heard quite a few people who were also having the same problem. (It took me a little while, but I've reclaimed my love for it despite the difference) Also, for a while there, there was only one main animatic for it and since they made some choices that were more controversial, it was a little divisive. Now some other artists have drawn for it so there is more of a variety. I also know that "Mutiny" made me love "Luck Runs Out" more, but some have started seeing it as the lesser twin of "Mutiny", which makes me sad because lyrical I still think this song is really good. Also, this is the first time we really get a read on the character dynamics between Eurylochus and Odysseus and this song walked so "Mutiny" could run.
I’m pretty sure in the OG Odyssey both the cyclops AND the Laestrygonians threw boulders, at two separate times. The first the cyclops, the second the Laestrygonians. However, I have unreliable sources so I don’t know for sure.
Love the video! My ranking for the Ocean Saga is: S: Luck Runs Out, Ruthlessness A+: Keep Your Friends Close A: Storm Wich adds up to: S: Luck Runs Out, Warrior of the Mind, Just a Man, Ruthlessness, My Goodbye A+: Keep Your Friends Close A: Remember Them, Storm, Survive, Open Arms B: The Horse and the Infant C: Polyphemus, Full Speed Ahead (And small spoiler, Luck Runs Out was my absolute favorite song, until the Thunder Saga dropped and no, the events from Mutiny aren't the reason, it isn't my #1 anymore :D)
I got a sweet spot for Luck Runs Out because it was the song that made me find this musical in the first place (A random Tictocker did a snippet of it before the first album was out) but sadly It does miss the playlist music wise, probably because its not as strong as the other songs but I do like it more after Thunder. On another note with Jay's vocals on Rufflessness, I also thought his 'apology' was just his overconfidence because of how calm he is. I mean he's not a stranger to the Gods and it went well with the Wind God and Althena didn't kill him after My Goodbye. He also talked the Cyclops into drinking lotis wine, which probably saved more men, so he has reason to think he can talk himself out of this.
I can totally understand what Mortius is saying about Odysseus' delivery in "Poseidon we meant no harm" But, specifically the line "Poseidon we meant no harm!!" sounds like shouting with eyes closed, at least that's the mental image it gives me. I imagine Odysseus, head down, eyes closed, hands up, semiprotecting his head, semipleading to Poseidon "We only hurt him to disarm him" sounds like a lawyer, so yeah. It feels like he forgot who he's talking to
My ranking in order of favorite to least favorite and also what tier they would be: S- Keep your friends close A+- Ruthlessness B- Storm D- Luck Runs out Also oh my gosh Teagan!!
I bet the reason there wasn’t a ton of animatics is because Jorge wanted to make it perfectly clear what was happening during this song in his head and sometimes text is better for that (sometimes).
1. I WAS NOT READY FOR ANY “FALLING ACTION” 2. TEAGAN??? 3. No in fact in the Odyssey Polyphemus was the only Cyclops who threw the boulders at them, but all it did was splashing huge waves. It never destroyed any ship and had to mention they went to the Cyclops’s cave with only one ship. And those eleven ships in his fleet did get destroyed by the Laestrygonians’ boulders 4. Yay Athena vs Wet Hades let’s gooo
absolutely lovely video, so cool to see everything ranked and the new animations are amazing to see considering i wasn’t awake for the thunder saga stream! also fully unrelated thing but Casper i just realized we have the same (or at least shockingly similar) glasses!
I remember reading or hearing it somewhere but is so real like just imagining what could have happened if the bag wont get opened ody and the rest makes it home safe and then Posseidon finds them like bro would have probably created atlantist from Ithica itself
Structurally I can't argue about the song. However I'd say that perhaps it establishes Eurylochus' really pessimistic and subordinate behaviors. Before even GETTING to Luck Runs Out.
On the question about why Eury would think the men would be put in danger- I personally like to think it's because in the timeline of events, the deaths by Polyphemus JUST happened maybe days or weeks at most before the events of Luck Runs Out. To me it makes sense Eury would be worried about Ody going up to speak to something he considers a major threat...shortly after a loss of people he considers close friends, due to the crew following Ody's lead against a major threat with the cyclops.
@@OpenArmsReactions Okay sounds good, thanks. That makes sense in case there are connections between songs like how Mutiny boosted your guy’s opinion of LRO.
If I recall correctly, originally in the Odyssey they spent around a month at the floating island. During that time they made repairs and resupplied. Which is why they were able to sail nonstop for 9 days with no issues food wise. Obviously the timeline is kinda jacked in this interpretation but that's ok.
The reason Ody couldn’t just yeet the bag in the original is that it was fricking huge. It took up a good chunk of floor on the boat and the surface was high in tension. I imagine it would be too easy for it to be cut or damaged and bust open. Also, as long as he had the winds inside the bag, they couldn’t be used against him, not even by, I don’t know, Poseidon, who’d blocked the way home with giant waves and giant storms! 😉 But the deal is pretty explicit that he personally needs to keep it shut, and Aeolus takes no responsibility past handing it over. If Ody wanted to take the chance that no other being would wander by and open it, he could have, but that seems dicey to me-better to make sure.
30:30 as I understood it. The bag has to remain closed in order to contain the wind. It doesn't matter how the bag gets opened or who opens it if it's opened before they arrive safely in Ithaca than they lose the game that the wind god set up. Throwing the bag into the sea could mean anything from a seagull to one of Poseidon's servants could find the bag and out of curiosity untie the knot so Odysseus has to keep the bag close.
I feel like 1 of 2 scenarios happened for ody and crew to land perfectly in a circle of posiden and friends. Scenario 1: aeolus told posiden where the ships would end up if the bag was opened and he straight up collected his boys and was like "we are gonna stay here until they arrive and then murder them". Scenario 2 posiden has a regular meet up with his boys and then all of sudden the guy he hates on principle just drops right in the middle. Personally I prefer Scenario 2.
22:44 I think the reason Eurylocus was worried about Odysseus trying to talk to a god was due to the Gods involvement with tge war in troy and or just general knowledge on how unpredictable they are
I wonder how they're gonna do the winions if we ever get a stage version. Like is it gonna be people in black body suits holding stuffed animals or are we gonna get full mascot costumes?
Have you come across greek myth comix compaisons of epic and the odyssey? They are very good if you want to learn the difference between the two as you mentioned! Another great video as always :D
I’ve always interpreted the private conversation in luck runs out as Odysseus telling Eurylochos to be devoted in front of the others and have criticism be said in private. I thought that the say things in private part was implied in the action of pulling him aside to ask that of him. However, I kept that opinion silent the first time you guys reacted to it because I don’t see other people saying that and your interpretation made sense as well, so I thought maybe I was wrong. But I have seen more comments that share my point of view in other reactions recently so I’m very curious as to what you guys think of that and would seeing it that way change any opinions people have on Odysseus. 🧐🧐🧐
Making a separate comment to answer the bag question. If the bag comes open the storm gets released. If he tossed it on the island, Aeolus or a Winion could open it. If he tossed it in the ocean you can guarantee Poseidon would have gotten it open.
one thing that still pisses me off about Ody doxing himself besides the actual act is at least in the original Odyssey, it's not clear in Epic, but he did it in spite of his crew BEGGING him not too. In the poem he was just being cocky rather than grieving so he gave his info and the reast of his men are like "bro shut up shut UP"
I'd like to think that if Ody threw the bag in the ocean... Poseidon can just open it and release his storm again? Or like- something else coulda opened it
It actually wouldve been 6 men that died to the cyclops because it 50 per ship including Odysseus but Poseidon was specifically excluding Odysseus by saying 'under your command' so the math is 50 - 1 = 49 and to get 43 6 wouldve died to Polyphemus
YOU'RE WRONG!! THE CYCLOPS AND THE LAESTRYGONIANS ARE 2 DIFFERENT SPECIES!!! BOTH WERE CREATED BY POSEIDON. BUT THE LAESTRYGONIANS IN TURN ARE MUCH LARGER AND MORE HUMAN LIKE THAN THE CYCLOPS! THE LAESTRYGONIANS ARE THE ONES THAT ALSO THROW THE BOULDERS AND DESTROY ODYSSEUS'S SHIPS IN THE BOOK ASWELL!!! I HOPE THIS HELPS 😭
Mortius has mentioned during 'luck runs out' that he thinks epic will come to theatres and I remember another few times that he mentions it. Do you think he doesn't know?? I'll tell him anyway... I remember watching a tiktok of Jorge's (I think it was around the time before the underworld saga launch), and he answered the 'where would epic go after all the sagas will be released' question, and he said that for now he doesn't see it go to theatres but he will want to make an animated musical movie...
I still heavily disagree with the interpretation that Ody is trying to say Eury can't or shouldn't criticize him. There's nothing that says that. You say the devout line does, but no it doesn't. Devout doesn't mean you have no criticisms or doubts, nor does it mean that you don't voice them. All devout means is that you remain trusting and faithful to the thing or things you're devout to, even in your darkest times. Not that you are blindly faithful or willingly ignorant of the flaws or criticisms that you or others hold towards them. The real issues stems from how Ody, for better or worse, doesn't ever really listen to such things. He hears them, yes, and he acknowledges them, but never anything moreso than in the moment talks which ultimately end in him concluding "But this is what I think needs to be done, and so I'll do it" do to his own mental and moral hangups he has in the given moment. Appropriately, Mutiny ends with Eury making that same mistake. Becoming so blinded by the strain of the situation(his hunger and exhaustion, much like Ody with his guilt and later his practicality and ruthlessness) that he ultimately makes the same mistake of failing to actually listen to Ody's words.
48:40 No, it was the laestrygonians that threw rocks, not the cyclopes. Or else why mention them at all. Your spouse is incorrect, alas. [Edited to the correct timestamp.]
stopped in to comment because guys I love you but your math AINT mathing. It's not 7 men who died to Polyphemus, it's six. If 43 men are left under Oddyseus' command, it means there are 44 men on the ship not 43, because Ody is also there. IF the ship holds 50, and there are 44 men now on the ship, it means six died earlier. :'D
@@Handwritten-vu You are right, it is confusing though, that each boat has 50 people, but 600 men, but we do know Jorge is kinda bad at numbers because 12 years ~
46:38 I have a hot take on Mortius's hot take! (This is not confirmed just my own opinion) I feel like Odysseus's delivery doesn't sound scared/emotional because he's used to being able to talk his way out of EVERYTHING. Not only that, but I don't actually think he's sorry either, he thinks it was justified (as shown by his non apology). He's a warrior of the mind, he always has had the upper hand with his words. Talking his way out of Poseidon's wrath isn't even a question to him, he's certain he'll be able to soothe him by explaining why his course of action was justified. After the fleet is destroyed, you can absolutely hear the devastation, because this was the first time his words and wit weren't enough, and he faced an extreme consequence for his failure. If you read all this I appreciate it haha, loving the tier list so far 😊
Yes, this! Not to mention Odysseus was probably very likely used to talking to gods in general, especially with him having been Athena's champion since he was young, so that makes him think he can handle this situation with a god better than he actually could.
I wouldn't even call this a hot take, it's part of Odysseus' character arc. He's used to outwitting people, even Athena herself when he was young. Having the audacity to do almost exactly what he did to Polyphemus - like not even thinking that the Cyclops would've told his dad the ENTIRE story - shows how arrogant Ody is. So, imo, whether Poseidon wanted an actual apology or not, the arrogance of Ody to try the same trick twice was his downfall. Repeating what Ody tells the Cyclops ("I am your darkest moment") is a reveal in itself.
Well he wasn't scared of posideon. It literally shows the disconnect between Odysseus' pride and everything around him. He doesn't apologize. He thinks he's saying what poseidon wants to hear. He thinks he's being clever and he's being smug about it.
I just double checked this, but with apologies to your surely lovely wife, Mortius, the cyclops (none of them) doesn't/don't sink any of Odysseus's ships in the original Odyssey (at least in the Stanley Lombardo translation). She was probably remembering that Polyphemus threw a couple of rocks at Odysseus's ship, which is true, that does happen, but both rocks miss the ship, and Odysseus and his crew manage to escape.
the rocks that sink the ships _do_ come from, I believe, relatives of the cyclops, the Laestrygonian Giants, though. they're the actual reason Odysseus loses his ships in the Odyssey, rather than direct divine intervention.
here we go again
The fact that Tiegen is a good friend of yours makes me happpy ❤@@OpenArmsReactions
"We're taking too much damage to survive" means too much damage to survive the storm itself, not the ocean. What immediately comes to mind is the risk of them capsizing, or even just too much water on board for them to bail out while in the storm.
this. also, some repairs could have been done during Luck runs out and first part of keep your friends close, between them harpooning island and them leaving with bag
@@danylonazarov Agreed. Honestly, depending on crew size, they could easily handle repairs while moving. If there was something they couldn't handle (i.e. irreperable damage to the hull) they would have sunk long before meeting Poseidon.
I’ve always pictured it as Odysseus leading his ship the most successfully while the other ships took more damage as they tried to follow him, Eurylochus is the voice of the whole crew (not just those on Odysseus’ boat) so his lines can be sung referring to other ships (Odysseus responds to “Captain, we will capsize with thesе waves, our fleet will fail” with “Have them follow my ship, I'll ensure that we prevail”, that makes more sense as a response if it’s the other ships that are having trouble while they are having less)
@@ezracohen6020 I think it's the entire fleet - including Odysseus' ship - that are at risk of capsizing from the storm.
Odysseus always speaks with confidence that he'll get them out of any situation, but often he asks for faith first, and devises a plan, second.
I always took it as him BELIEVING he'd be able to navigate the storm, hence ordering the ships to follow him. But that belief was based on his own ability to always find a path forward. Rather than him actually seeing a safe path forward to lead his men through the storm.
After all, what he ends up doing to outlast the storm is have everyone anchor to the floating island while he got a god to trap the storm in a bag. Most certainly not something he had planned for when telling his fleet to follow him.
@@yuukinoyuki9064 I would argue that the belief is based on skill, there are definitely times he exhibits hubris but I don’t think this is one of them (the way he interacts with gods almost as equals shows much more hubris), I think this is more just him knowing what he’s capable of
Obviously this doesn't happen in Epic itself, but Eurylochus being so wary of the gods is very justified when you remember that the Odyssey happens after the Iliad and the Trojan War, where a ton of different gods all stuck their hands in and messed around with the humans. All these men have very real experience with how powerful and dangerous the gods can be, they lived through a war basically designed by them. So even if in Epic they haven't been outright attacked by any gods at the point of Luck Runs Out, Eurylochus's wariness definitely checks out
not even basically started by them, it _was_ started by them. it all started because Eris threw the Golden Apple into the banquet dedicated to "the most beautiful goddess", leading to the Judgement of Paris and the kidnapping of Helen.
49:15 Common misconception, 14 men actually died in the cave, not 7. Jorge confirmed that Odysseus came out with half of the men he went in with (28 / 2 = 14), and that every thud in Survive after Polites died counts as a soldier dead.
My guess is he didn't come with just the crew on his ship, but from multiple ships. Probably to make it easier to distribute food upon return to the fleet.
I hadn't thought about the other ship, I assumed all were in the main ship since Polytes was there, you are right, we can confirm six died from Odysseus' ship, but as for the rest, you can argue the other were in other ship in the beginning.
Casper is stronger than me, if Teagan E said "hi honey!" to me, I'd burst into tears 💙
I DID, my reaction to her is thankfully Patreon exclusive so that only part of the internet saw me freaking out! :DD -C
@@OpenArmsReactions Oh 😭
@@dylanfooler She literally sounded like a mom when she said “Hi honey”,
Real
@@OpenArmsReactionsyou should add it over here so the other half of the internet that’s poor can see your reaction
casper’s reaction to abandoned_raccoon’s animatic was so fricken cute and this is the energy i wish to convey
Casper did a weird kind of prophecy with the gummy bears comment- I was eating gummy bears that exact moment-
I know. -C
Did you know that the actor singing for Perimedes is also Antonius? That LITERALLY blew my mind. His name is Ayron Alexander
Storm has one of my favourite lyrical moments
When the crew reprise full speed ahead, Odysyus cuts in his verse where the first word matches so it's "full speed a- head towards the island"
Amazing writing
Daaaamn never realized that omg
About the lack of fear in Ody's voice during Ruthlessness, I'd argue it makes perfect sense. Ody is a character with an intense hubris, and at that point in the song, as far as he can tell, he's been offered a perfect and easy way out by Poseidon, so he lets his ego get to his head. Not only does he waste the chance (which Poseidon probably never took seriously in the first place) with his false apology, but he's cocky about it _because_ he thinks it's so easy. Avoiding certain death by utilizing your wits and charisma, outsmarting a God? Why, none of his brethren in the Trojan War would have feats nearly as grand. It is the ultimate glory to bring back to Ithaca and, most importantly, to himself.
That's why i think Zeus talked about it in Thunder Bringer. Under all that mercy and stuff, there was a hidden pride. Zeus, from the very beginning, saw through his bullshit, (i dont think you're ready), and might have been the only one to do so. (Hiding away where only i can undress her). He's all smug and prideful, but when Zeus came into the picture, all of that pride was suddenly nowhere to be found. Poseidon might have only thought of it as Ody's naivety and hopefulness, but Zeus came in and directly called Ody out on his pride. He was there to show Ody that his cocky attitude isnt gonna work on him, Zeus, the king of the gods himself.
30:53 "All you gotta do is *not open this bag* " as long as it was clpsed it didn't matter, he didn't need to hold it closed just make sure it never opened.
- Something to note as well: Odysseus WOULD have normally given Eury the bag, and they would take turns. However, after the talk during ‘Luck Runs Out’, he doesn’t trust Eury fully enough for this task. Hence why Ody stays awake for 9 days.
I do think something that is easily forgotten is that Ody is an outlier. Ody is quite nonchalant about involving/talking to Gods because Athena has been so present in his life. But for the average mortal? The Gods are respected but feared. So, it makes sense for Eurylochus to be so fearful of directly involving a God. I wouldn't be surprised if Eurylochus thought Ody was just poking a holy bear.
(They can never make me hate you, Eurylochus)
Nothing and no one can make me hate Eurylochus
Everyone, pack your wind bags and start running! It's the Ocean Saga, and Wet Hades is coming!
(Heehee see you tomorrow)
I was not ready for the "Falling action" joke.
none of us were
Neither was the infant lmao
Jail!
Not so fun fact the Laestrygonians were giant cannibals, in the Odyssey they eat a large amount of Odysseus's crew
Oh, you jerks. I was so ready for that "I'M THE SAME" and you robbed me of it!😂
It's my favorite line in the whole musical, hands down, no contest. It's so perfectly appropriate, yet so painfully prophetic. It's perfect.
In the actual Odyssey the only time they ever do repairs on the ships are at Aeolous' island Aeolia (which does float, but on water, meaning it's not attached to the earth) and then again when their last ship arrives on Circe's island, Odysseus and Eurylochus pull straws to decide who leads which group, and Eurylochus pulls the short stick meaning he went to investigate the island with a group of men and hunt too while Odysseus remained with the rest to repair the ship
I was going to say I was pretty sure I remembered repairs while on Circe's island in the Odyssey!
I've always interpreted the aeolous and Odysseus deal as less of a deal and more of a challange. She dosent get anything but amusement.This Version of her seems to be the type of god to do that
Aeolous gave ody the chance to challange his trust with his crewmates by giving him the bag. Had ody just managed to build the trust with his crewmates more then they would have trusted him and not open that bag. So she gave him something that could either help with his journey or make it harder,fully depending on himself
(although this is more of a tired ramble than anything so this may not even make sense😭)
Ah it’s Wet Hades Time.
I'm finally caught up with all your reactions and I just wanna leave a comment to tell you how thankful I am that I have found you both. I've been struggeling alot with my mental health lately and while catching up with the thunder sage I found your reaction videos to the musical and started watching all of them the past weeks. And you've really helped me to keep going and feel better because of how invested you both are into epic but also with how authentic you two are. I sometimes find it hard to be excited about things but your excitement, your joy, your honest reactions and real tears have touched me and showed me again that it's okay to be excited and hyped about something you love. I really hope you will keep going for a long time!! Lots of love from germany
Danke schön - We are over the moon to hear that
22:44
Ody... I-
Eury: Okay.
Ody........Thank you...?
Did anyone else JUST NOTICE THE PIANO BACKING in luck runs out? … just me?
The fact Athena just left and is watching through Poseidons storm… that she is still hoping that Odysseus sees reason… that he apologizes to her… sends a message ANYTHING!
It’s just *cheffs kiss*
47:49 No, in the Odyssey, all the ships of the fleet minus Odysseus' were destroyed by the Laestrygonians trowing giant rocks:
Book X: "thousands of sturdy Laestrygonians sprang up from every quarter- ogres, not men. They threw vast rocks at us from the cliffs as though they had been mere stones, and I heard the horrid sound of the ships crunching up against one another, and the death cries of my men, as the Laestrygonians speared them like fishes and took them home to eat them. While they were thus killing my men within the harbour I drew my sword, cut the cable of my own ship, and told my men to row with alf their might if they too would not fare like the rest; so they laid out for their lives, and we were thankful enough when we got into open water out of reach of the rocks they hurled at us. As for the others there was not one of them left. "
You are making confusion with the attempt by the blind Polyphemus to sink Odysseus' ship by trowing a rock, which failed by a inch:
Book IX "Then he picked up a rock much larger than the first, swung it aloft and hurled it with prodigious force. It fell just short of the ship, but was within a little of hitting the end of the rudder. The sea quaked as the rock fell into it, and the wash of the wave it raised drove us onwards on our way towards the shore of the island."
I didn't see Teagan's cameo coming, but I'm so happy about it
I'm so happy they also felt like Luck Runs Out was faster! I listened to it a few weeks ago and actually checked to see if I accidentally had my music sped up
The stream animatic felt even faster for me as well, with how the background changes to quickly. I love Luck Runs Out though so I'm a bit surprised when they said it was a controversial song and it ranks so low. Personally Storm would be a low rank because the content of it is pretty simple to me.
@@SunSlayerKDExactly what I always thought, Luck Runs Out is one of my favorites
@@SunSlayerKD I can understand sort of why it might be controversial. I first heard this before Ocean Saga came out so I heard a version that was clips put together. At the time some of the phrases were sung differently and it was out of context, so it wasn't being compared by the two songs that are before and after it.
I remember that I was obsessed with "Luck Runs Out" because of the lyrics and it reminded me a little of "Wait For It" (in subject and vibe, not sound). It was the first Epic song I ever heard and it will always be special (and a song that I can't help but love) because it brought me here.
When Ocean Saga came out, something about it felt very different and I wasn't sure if I liked it and I've heard quite a few people who were also having the same problem. (It took me a little while, but I've reclaimed my love for it despite the difference)
Also, for a while there, there was only one main animatic for it and since they made some choices that were more controversial, it was a little divisive. Now some other artists have drawn for it so there is more of a variety.
I also know that "Mutiny" made me love "Luck Runs Out" more, but some have started seeing it as the lesser twin of "Mutiny", which makes me sad because lyrical I still think this song is really good. Also, this is the first time we really get a read on the character dynamics between Eurylochus and Odysseus and this song walked so "Mutiny" could run.
I’m pretty sure in the OG Odyssey both the cyclops AND the Laestrygonians threw boulders, at two separate times. The first the cyclops, the second the Laestrygonians.
However, I have unreliable sources so I don’t know for sure.
“There won’t be as much to talk about…” right right. Like this video isn’t almost as long as the other two lol
Ahhhhh Teagan showing up was totally incredible! Caspers reaction had me laughing and crying❤
One thing I find interesting, is that Author his is actually Odysseus' brother in law. And Hermes is Odysseus' great grandfather.
Eurylochus*
Love the video!
My ranking for the Ocean Saga is:
S: Luck Runs Out, Ruthlessness
A+: Keep Your Friends Close
A: Storm
Wich adds up to:
S: Luck Runs Out, Warrior of the Mind, Just a Man, Ruthlessness, My Goodbye
A+: Keep Your Friends Close
A: Remember Them, Storm, Survive, Open Arms
B: The Horse and the Infant
C: Polyphemus, Full Speed Ahead
(And small spoiler, Luck Runs Out was my absolute favorite song, until the Thunder Saga dropped and no, the events from Mutiny aren't the reason, it isn't my #1 anymore :D)
The falling action had me in stitches 😂😂😂
Hell ye, the Cloud Hades and Wet Hades saga :D
Waves start circling and crashing around violently. High on the tallest sea rock, holding a trident.......
....is him. Wet Hades.
🎉yey! I love your videos!
Seeing all the canon animations is really neat too
Winions are originally the term for the guys at the floating island. Mircsy just used that design for the lotus eaters too and everyone loved it
I got a sweet spot for Luck Runs Out because it was the song that made me find this musical in the first place (A random Tictocker did a snippet of it before the first album was out) but sadly It does miss the playlist music wise, probably because its not as strong as the other songs but I do like it more after Thunder.
On another note with Jay's vocals on Rufflessness, I also thought his 'apology' was just his overconfidence because of how calm he is. I mean he's not a stranger to the Gods and it went well with the Wind God and Althena didn't kill him after My Goodbye. He also talked the Cyclops into drinking lotis wine, which probably saved more men, so he has reason to think he can talk himself out of this.
Not the “cutting before it gets weird” editors note 💀
I can totally understand what Mortius is saying about Odysseus' delivery in "Poseidon we meant no harm"
But, specifically the line "Poseidon we meant no harm!!" sounds like shouting with eyes closed, at least that's the mental image it gives me. I imagine Odysseus, head down, eyes closed, hands up, semiprotecting his head, semipleading to Poseidon
"We only hurt him to disarm him" sounds like a lawyer, so yeah. It feels like he forgot who he's talking to
here we go
so my teir list
keep your friends closer
storm
ruthlessness
luck runs out
OCEAN SAGA OMFGGGG, WE'RE NOT SLEEPING TONIGHT 🗣🗣
My ranking in order of favorite to least favorite and also what tier they would be:
S- Keep your friends close
A+- Ruthlessness
B- Storm
D- Luck Runs out
Also oh my gosh Teagan!!
I bet the reason there wasn’t a ton of animatics is because Jorge wanted to make it perfectly clear what was happening during this song in his head and sometimes text is better for that (sometimes).
ruthless when poseidon says close your hart it has athena piano notes
1. I WAS NOT READY FOR ANY “FALLING ACTION”
2. TEAGAN???
3. No in fact in the Odyssey Polyphemus was the only Cyclops who threw the boulders at them, but all it did was splashing huge waves. It never destroyed any ship and had to mention they went to the Cyclops’s cave with only one ship. And those eleven ships in his fleet did get destroyed by the Laestrygonians’ boulders
4. Yay Athena vs Wet Hades let’s gooo
absolutely lovely video, so cool to see everything ranked and the new animations are amazing to see considering i wasn’t awake for the thunder saga stream! also fully unrelated thing but Casper i just realized we have the same (or at least shockingly similar) glasses!
I remember reading or hearing it somewhere but is so real like just imagining what could have happened if the bag wont get opened ody and the rest makes it home safe and then Posseidon finds them like bro would have probably created atlantist from Ithica itself
Structurally I can't argue about the song. However I'd say that perhaps it establishes Eurylochus' really pessimistic and subordinate behaviors. Before even GETTING to Luck Runs Out.
On the question about why Eury would think the men would be put in danger- I personally like to think it's because in the timeline of events, the deaths by Polyphemus JUST happened maybe days or weeks at most before the events of Luck Runs Out. To me it makes sense Eury would be worried about Ody going up to speak to something he considers a major threat...shortly after a loss of people he considers close friends, due to the crew following Ody's lead against a major threat with the cyclops.
How will you do the tier lists for the wisdom saga? During you’re first time?
We are not tier listing Act 2 before the entire musical is out -C
@@OpenArmsReactions Okay sounds good, thanks. That makes sense in case there are connections between songs like how Mutiny boosted your guy’s opinion of LRO.
If I recall correctly, originally in the Odyssey they spent around a month at the floating island. During that time they made repairs and resupplied. Which is why they were able to sail nonstop for 9 days with no issues food wise. Obviously the timeline is kinda jacked in this interpretation but that's ok.
keep your friends close and your enemies closer-
The reason Ody couldn’t just yeet the bag in the original is that it was fricking huge. It took up a good chunk of floor on the boat and the surface was high in tension. I imagine it would be too easy for it to be cut or damaged and bust open. Also, as long as he had the winds inside the bag, they couldn’t be used against him, not even by, I don’t know, Poseidon, who’d blocked the way home with giant waves and giant storms! 😉
But the deal is pretty explicit that he personally needs to keep it shut, and Aeolus takes no responsibility past handing it over. If Ody wanted to take the chance that no other being would wander by and open it, he could have, but that seems dicey to me-better to make sure.
30:30 as I understood it. The bag has to remain closed in order to contain the wind. It doesn't matter how the bag gets opened or who opens it if it's opened before they arrive safely in Ithaca than they lose the game that the wind god set up.
Throwing the bag into the sea could mean anything from a seagull to one of Poseidon's servants could find the bag and out of curiosity untie the knot so Odysseus has to keep the bag close.
I feel like 1 of 2 scenarios happened for ody and crew to land perfectly in a circle of posiden and friends. Scenario 1: aeolus told posiden where the ships would end up if the bag was opened and he straight up collected his boys and was like "we are gonna stay here until they arrive and then murder them". Scenario 2 posiden has a regular meet up with his boys and then all of sudden the guy he hates on principle just drops right in the middle. Personally I prefer Scenario 2.
I'm just patiently waiting for another one of these
Did I not alreadt say the tier list is unnecessary? Every👏 song👏 in👏 Epic👏 is👏 S👏 tier👏
22:44 I think the reason Eurylocus was worried about Odysseus trying to talk to a god was due to the Gods involvement with tge war in troy and or just general knowledge on how unpredictable they are
I wonder how they're gonna do the winions if we ever get a stage version. Like is it gonna be people in black body suits holding stuffed animals or are we gonna get full mascot costumes?
Have you come across greek myth comix compaisons of epic and the odyssey? They are very good if you want to learn the difference between the two as you mentioned!
Another great video as always :D
I’ve always interpreted the private conversation in luck runs out as Odysseus telling Eurylochos to be devoted in front of the others and have criticism be said in private. I thought that the say things in private part was implied in the action of pulling him aside to ask that of him. However, I kept that opinion silent the first time you guys reacted to it because I don’t see other people saying that and your interpretation made sense as well, so I thought maybe I was wrong. But I have seen more comments that share my point of view in other reactions recently so I’m very curious as to what you guys think of that and would seeing it that way change any opinions people have on Odysseus. 🧐🧐🧐
I don't care if all I missed was them jamming out to the music, cutting that much of Ruthlessness is criminal. 😭
First see you back tomorrow
Making a separate comment to answer the bag question.
If the bag comes open the storm gets released. If he tossed it on the island, Aeolus or a Winion could open it.
If he tossed it in the ocean you can guarantee Poseidon would have gotten it open.
SO READY FOR THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m loving these reactions, keep it up!
27:18 Athena is WatChiNG 😂
one thing that still pisses me off about Ody doxing himself besides the actual act is at least in the original Odyssey, it's not clear in Epic, but he did it in spite of his crew BEGGING him not too. In the poem he was just being cocky rather than grieving so he gave his info and the reast of his men are like "bro shut up shut UP"
That is a goose 🪿 mortius
To be fair, Rick Riordan did the same thing in Heroes of Olympus (Aeolus's floating island)
I'd like to think that if Ody threw the bag in the ocean... Poseidon can just open it and release his storm again? Or like- something else coulda opened it
4:08 “wet hades”
Wet Hades is back
i would also put open arms, remember them and luck runs out all in the same tier (for me its masterpiece tier tho)
Mortius: There’s not going to be as much talking. It won’t be a long video
RUclips video : 57:54 😂 😂 😂
It actually wouldve been 6 men that died to the cyclops because it 50 per ship including Odysseus but Poseidon was specifically excluding Odysseus by saying 'under your command' so the math is 50 - 1 = 49 and to get 43 6 wouldve died to Polyphemus
Thx for the reaction
YOU'RE WRONG!! THE CYCLOPS AND THE LAESTRYGONIANS ARE 2 DIFFERENT SPECIES!!!
BOTH WERE CREATED BY POSEIDON.
BUT THE LAESTRYGONIANS IN TURN ARE MUCH LARGER AND MORE HUMAN LIKE THAN THE CYCLOPS!
THE LAESTRYGONIANS ARE THE ONES THAT ALSO THROW THE BOULDERS AND DESTROY ODYSSEUS'S SHIPS IN THE BOOK ASWELL!!! I HOPE THIS HELPS 😭
Mortius has mentioned during 'luck runs out' that he thinks epic will come to theatres and I remember another few times that he mentions it. Do you think he doesn't know??
I'll tell him anyway...
I remember watching a tiktok of Jorge's (I think it was around the time before the underworld saga launch), and he answered the 'where would epic go after all the sagas will be released' question, and he said that for now he doesn't see it go to theatres but he will want to make an animated musical movie...
The coment about the ship dmg remind me of the paradox of the shit but i dont remember if it is theseus or odiseus ship
So excited!
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that Mortius is the black cat and Casper is the golden retriever. Hot take?
What career altering thing is casped talking about? I watched them but cant remember
The Stoooorm is different
normally is goes: -__-_ (Storm), -__-- (Storm) (morse code xd)
Now it's: -*_~_** (Storm), -_*~* (Storm)
If you're using the remastered songs, please use the remastered album covers
I still heavily disagree with the interpretation that Ody is trying to say Eury can't or shouldn't criticize him. There's nothing that says that. You say the devout line does, but no it doesn't. Devout doesn't mean you have no criticisms or doubts, nor does it mean that you don't voice them. All devout means is that you remain trusting and faithful to the thing or things you're devout to, even in your darkest times. Not that you are blindly faithful or willingly ignorant of the flaws or criticisms that you or others hold towards them.
The real issues stems from how Ody, for better or worse, doesn't ever really listen to such things. He hears them, yes, and he acknowledges them, but never anything moreso than in the moment talks which ultimately end in him concluding "But this is what I think needs to be done, and so I'll do it" do to his own mental and moral hangups he has in the given moment.
Appropriately, Mutiny ends with Eury making that same mistake. Becoming so blinded by the strain of the situation(his hunger and exhaustion, much like Ody with his guilt and later his practicality and ruthlessness) that he ultimately makes the same mistake of failing to actually listen to Ody's words.
48:40 No, it was the laestrygonians that threw rocks, not the cyclopes. Or else why mention them at all. Your spouse is incorrect, alas.
[Edited to the correct timestamp.]
White Richard Gonzalez Eric Walker Charles
Perez Elizabeth Robinson Elizabeth Martinez Robert
Wet hades saga!!1!1!1!!1!
Day four of commenting on your channel begging you guys to react to Epic the Horsical
🫰
Queeeeeeeeeen
Martin Brenda Gonzalez Edward Jackson Karen
stopped in to comment because guys I love you but your math AINT mathing. It's not 7 men who died to Polyphemus, it's six. If 43 men are left under Oddyseus' command, it means there are 44 men on the ship not 43, because Ody is also there. IF the ship holds 50, and there are 44 men now on the ship, it means six died earlier. :'D
The 600 men isn’t included with Odysseus, from what I recall. “600 men under my command-“
@@Handwritten-vu You are right, it is confusing though, that each boat has 50 people, but 600 men, but we do know Jorge is kinda bad at numbers because 12 years ~
Jones Patricia Lewis Jason Jackson Linda
46:38 I have a hot take on Mortius's hot take! (This is not confirmed just my own opinion) I feel like Odysseus's delivery doesn't sound scared/emotional because he's used to being able to talk his way out of EVERYTHING. Not only that, but I don't actually think he's sorry either, he thinks it was justified (as shown by his non apology). He's a warrior of the mind, he always has had the upper hand with his words. Talking his way out of Poseidon's wrath isn't even a question to him, he's certain he'll be able to soothe him by explaining why his course of action was justified. After the fleet is destroyed, you can absolutely hear the devastation, because this was the first time his words and wit weren't enough, and he faced an extreme consequence for his failure. If you read all this I appreciate it haha, loving the tier list so far 😊
Yes, this! Not to mention Odysseus was probably very likely used to talking to gods in general, especially with him having been Athena's champion since he was young, so that makes him think he can handle this situation with a god better than he actually could.
I wouldn't even call this a hot take, it's part of Odysseus' character arc. He's used to outwitting people, even Athena herself when he was young.
Having the audacity to do almost exactly what he did to Polyphemus - like not even thinking that the Cyclops would've told his dad the ENTIRE story - shows how arrogant Ody is.
So, imo, whether Poseidon wanted an actual apology or not, the arrogance of Ody to try the same trick twice was his downfall. Repeating what Ody tells the Cyclops ("I am your darkest moment") is a reveal in itself.
Well he wasn't scared of posideon. It literally shows the disconnect between Odysseus' pride and everything around him. He doesn't apologize. He thinks he's saying what poseidon wants to hear. He thinks he's being clever and he's being smug about it.
Time for another Prophet Casper...
🎶And all I got to do is wait for it🎶
I just double checked this, but with apologies to your surely lovely wife, Mortius, the cyclops (none of them) doesn't/don't sink any of Odysseus's ships in the original Odyssey (at least in the Stanley Lombardo translation).
She was probably remembering that Polyphemus threw a couple of rocks at Odysseus's ship, which is true, that does happen, but both rocks miss the ship, and Odysseus and his crew manage to escape.
the rocks that sink the ships _do_ come from, I believe, relatives of the cyclops, the Laestrygonian Giants, though. they're the actual reason Odysseus loses his ships in the Odyssey, rather than direct divine intervention.
WET HADES AND DIVINE SUGAR MOMMA LIVE ON!!!!!