I'd probably be a touch ticked if my second was openly undercutting my decisions, Eury def should have stated his concerns in private so as not to undermine the Captain/King's authority in front of the Soldiers.
One thing about Luck Runs Out is that Eurylochus is not only questioning Odysseus IN FRONT OF THE CREW, he's also forgetting that Ody is not just their captain, he's also their KING. Ody is confident he can get them out of this, but in order to properly do so, he needs everyone to trust and listen to him, and having his second-in-command doubting him in front of the whole crew makes him look bad.
And what are they to do when their blind trust turns out to be misplaced and Odysseus's confidence turns out to be unwarranted? Eurylochus is concerned for the safety of the crew. He should not be admonished for that, because he's more than likely not saying anything they aren't already thinking. Knowing the second-in-command acknowledges their concerns would boost morale. Blind trust in anyone is dangerous, as is slavish obedience. Odysseus has already made himself look bad by losing his temper and doxing himself to Polyphemus. Even if he weren't the son of Poseidon, that's reckless behavior that is unbecoming for a king or captain.
@@Apophis.004 Yeah, I do think Eurylochus was wrong to bring it up in public like that, but when asked to move the conversation to a private room, he does so without question. Odysseus then refuses to listen to anything he says, and tells him to shut up and follow.
@@disableddragonborn The problem isnt that Eurylochus is doubting him, a good 2nd should be there to make sure that captain keeps a level head and point out flaws, the problem is he's sowing even more doubt and fear then what's already there amongst the crew while downplaying the authority of the king and captain. This is very much a conversation that shouldve been had in private and addressed NOT in front of the whole crew. Look at almost any modern day job as an example. Once management starts infighting and constantly bickering over how things should be done, the entire operation starts to break down. Except here instead of a messy workplace or a missed deadline, its people lives that'll be lost because of that infighting.
And ody forgot, that he needs the trust and support of his crew, hw cant just run of doing one risky and stupid thing after the ither, never explqining everything and be from what it looks like extreamly callus with his mens lifes.... While a king is a king, a captain who does not act in his mens best intetest will lose their respect, loyality always has to go both ways....
Something about Eurylochus (the guy with the buzz cut)'s very straight delivery is that he's a military man, so I find his rigid delivery as something that enhances his character.
@@PeterBarberI will say that I absolutely agreed with you but after hearing him in the Thunder Saga it's pretty clear that Armando (the Eurylochus singer) is definitely able to emote, so this might just be a choice.
I can say, from a military standpoint and as an officer, it is constantly hammered to never undermine the authority you work with or argue in front of your soldiers. If you have a problem, you grab that person and ask to talk privately to figure out whatever the problem is, which is exactly what Odysseus did with Eurylochus. By having his authority undermined in front of all his men, it makes them all more hesitant to follow orders in a tense situation.
Yeah, but also, hw is plain worried out of his mind foe hia brother ( in law) who is about to do something tremendiously risky. He ia not contesting orders, he is contesting somwonw he loves ans their damned king running of on his own ... Military as far as I know nwver uses their highest in command ans only chance to make it through as a sacrificial pawn!!!
I think, given the nature of the musical, every time we hear the piano it means Athena IS watching. She's just no longer interfering on Odysseus' behalf; the silent observer to see how Odysseus handles these critical moments without her guidance. It also might be a clue to the audience that something important enough is happening that having Athena as a mentor and advisor might come in real handy... (this is all my speculation FYI).
Actually, the piano is Eurylochus using Athena's instrument as he attempts to fill her role in the story (the pragmatist). This happens once more in the musical.
I think Odysseus's response is completely valid and justified. When people here "comply and be devout" they will get a bit squigged out, but you have to remember that Odysseus is a general and a king. He is leading these men home and is doing everything he can to get them home safe. When Eurylochus has issue with the choices Odysseus makes, he cannot voice that in public because it shows the rest of the crew that even the second in command disagrees. Mutiny and loss of morale were very real threats to the success of these voyages. Anyway, can't wait for the next two songs, legit some of my fav tracks in EPIC!
The snake thing may be in reference to the myth of Erikthonius, a “son” of Athena and Hephaestus who was born of a cloth containing both of the gods’ essence after it fell to earth. Athena sensed when he was born and wanted to make him immortal (as he seemingly wasn’t at that point). So she had placed him in a box with a magical serpent that would make him immortal. She gives the box to the princesses of Athens and told them to not open the box until the goddess returned. The girls eventually got concerned because they kept hearing a baby crying in the box and so opened the box releasing the snake. The girls went mad from the sight and jumped off a cliff to their deaths.
@@brendanhart517 Well gods generally don't want to be bothered with certain responsibilities. Childcare being one of them. So why not leave a baby and a snake in a box with a bunch of people with basic empathy. 😅
Remember, Odysseus is not just the captain of this crew. He's the reigning KING of Ithica, and his second in command is questioning him in front of all of his men. While it could have been handled better, Odysseus's reaction isn't exactly unwarranted. His plan is sound, given the options he has. If he's questioned every time he makes a scary decision, he won't be able to keep the loyalty and morale of his men.
Even if he wasn't a king, he is still a captain and a general. He can't have his autority underminded in front of the crew ESPECIALLY not by his second in command.
He is talking about involving a deity in mortal affairs. Odysseus is confident in talking with the wind god due to his history with Athena, a prominent goddess in Greek mythology who he’s been mentored by from a young age. The rest of the crew do not have any such ties to the gods, they give tribute and sacrifice to them but are also deeply afraid of them. Most mortals do not have a good time when a god becomes involved in their lives, Odysseus doesn’t take that into account and Eurylochus is rightfully scared about the possible repercussions of getting a god’s attention placed on them. Plus Odysseus has lost favour with Athena after the cyclops saga which should have been a sign to be cautious.
Yeah, not only that but he would have actually succeeded if not for the crew's loyalty being thin as tissue paper. They lost 14 men (I think)... 14! Out of 600 men, in a 10 year war, they lost 14 men to a cyclops, a demigod son of poseidon, one of the big 3. He quite literally did everything he could have done right, and then he gets put up on blast in front of everyone. Ody has a lot of self control.
@@zenithstrikerz1720 In greeck myths, the gods constantely involve themeselve in mortals's affairs. They are not distant like in other religions. Plenty of gods such as Pan, Apollo and Dionysus regularly visits the same mortals to party with them or even just to check up. More importantely, no one can accomplish anything in greeck myths unless they are aided by a god/godesse. I can confidentely say that there isn't a single tale were the hero was successeful withought some form of divine intervention. In order to reach Ithaca, Odysseus and his crew absolutely need to get a god involved. That's just how those myths works.
@@yoannbelleville7763 I’ll admit that I’m not familiar with most stories involving Pan or Apollo so I cannot speak about them in good faith. My point in my last comment is that Odysseus’s crew had no personal connection to the gods and were far more wary of them as all they knew were tales of the gods power and that to get on their bad side would spell certain doom.
@PeterBarter the “multi voice” are the crew singing with Eurylochus as he even though second in command, Jorge says that he is very close to the crew so Eurylochus main instrument is the crew, Eurylochus side instruments will change constantly throughout the song based on the current situation (spoilers ahead, don’t read if you haven’t listen to the thunder saga) like how Eurylochus fight in Mutiny, the instrument is an electric guitar (Ody instrument) which indicates that Eurylochus is trying to take Ody place as a captain when he chalenges Ody
You might want to put that spoiler under a cut, and it would be best to not even bring up that song title until you've given the spoiler warning and separated the spoiler text.
A non-spoiler example of Eurylochus's use of other characters' instruments is in this song. The piano (Athena's instrument) accompanies him because he's trying to fill her role (that of the pragmatist).
One of my favorite songs in Epic. I know that you’re getting flak for being a late comer to Epic; but I, personally, enjoy hearing your viewpoint and listening again to these magnificent vocals. Aside: a leader wants followers to express their disagreements with them privately - never in front of others. Similarly, note Odysseus correction was done in private to not undercut his 2nd’s authority.
The snake thing I think is basically a metaphor. Essentially 'by taking these risks, you're grappling with a snake, and if you keep grappling with a snake, eventually it gets free and bites you.' It might be a reference to a specific myth, idk, others have mentioned Erikthonius. But for the purposes of the story the important thing is Eurylochus is just saying 'how long until the shit you pull bites us in the ass' but poetically.
Peter you need to catch up real quick! So much fun ahead waiting for you and FYI Jorge will be dropping the latest saga the Wisdom Saga at the end of the month!
Nah, let him enjoy the music at his own pace! No need for him to listen to it as soon as it comes out. If anything if he waits there'll be more animatics.
Thank you for calling Ody’s controlling nature out. Many ppl are Ody apologist even tho the Greeks didn’t author heroes to be heroes but to be tales of caution lol the snake imo refers to his hubris. He uses sneaky tactics (Trojan horse/lotus wine) and Eury is asking how long until that snake he uses to attack his enemies bites back.
Fr! Like neither was completely right or wrong but Ody needed to chill tf out, like yes eury shouldn't have brought up the crews doubts ect in public but Ody absolutely shouldn't have basically just told him to shut tf up and follow him regardless of how him or the crew feel, that's just asking for mistrust 🤷
@@phoenix_songbirdarguably, he was pretty chill relative to other kings and commanders of his time. Achilles or Agamemnon would have likely cut Eurylochus down on the spot for challenging them in front of the men, “childhood friend” or not. Absolute power corrupts. But even by today’s military standards, Eurylochus should have challenged him in private. Unless a second in command is preparing to remove the commanding officer from power on the spot (on charges of incompetence), they need to bring their concerns up away from the ears of the crew or unit. To do so in front of them further demoralizes the situation and can rapidly escalate it from “dangerous” to “unnecessarily d3adly”. And as a seasoned veteran, Eurylochus should have known that. But let’s be honest: after ten years of war, none of these men (Ody included) would be fully in their right minds. The PTSD and moral injury would be at max levels.
@@rivendells_shona yeah, my only issue with what eury did was that he did it in front of the crew🤷 also something I've noticed after so many rewatches ect it kind of feels like because Ody didn't lose a single soldier in the war, he got cocky (I took 600 men to war and not one of them died) like Ody no🤦
I know people claim it would cause doubt in the men, but Odysseus's own actions would be what does it, because seeds of doubt cannot grow in infertile soil. Seeing the captain be reckless and cause problems would be demoralizing, so seeing the second-in-command voice those concerns, to me, would boost morale, because then I'd know that while the guy at the top doesn't give a damn about or know my concerns, his second-in-command does. Odysseus being incapable of handling being questioned in front of the crew makes me wonder if he handles his role as king the same way, intolerant of any doubt or criticism. If he does, he's a tyrant. Eurylochus is concerned for the crew's safety. He should not have been admonished for that.
@@disableddragonborn yeah, like eury wasn't planting seeds of doubt like Ody says he's voicing the crews existing doubts and worrys and Ody is essentially telling eury and the crew itself to stfu and do as I say regardless of how you feel about my decisions and choices, like dude eury is the voice of the crew he's supposed to voice their concerns/worries ect and look out for them, hence why I was fully on eurys side for mutiny the captain and literal king just admitted he knows exactly what was gonna happen and planned for 6 of his crew *plus* his own second in command(and literal brother in law!) to die in that cave, no second in command that's not a pos is gonna let that slide, his concern is the crew the very crew that the leader basically just told everyone he's willing to sacrifice if it gets *him* home
I am pretty sure the layering on the "how" is also because, while Eurylochus is the one doubting Odysseus, he is speaking for the doubts of the crew, so the layering is like the entire crew singing alond with him. This is also why the layering leaves when Ody speaks to him under 4 eyes.
Yeah, and you can also see it from Eury’s side too since he’s also going through grief. Polities was his friend too, and he doesn’t want Ody to die or get them into another situation that could potentially get more people killed. They’re brothers-in-law and childhood friends. That’s why Ody trusts him as his right hand, but really Eury should’ve had this talk with him in private to begin with.
I think Ody was only disagreeing so harshly ‘cause Eury brought it up in front of everyone in the first place, so he was worried about his second (the voice Of the crew) planting seeds of doubt. Though I agree Odysseus should have heard Eurylochus out, so that he could assuage the crew’s worries and reinforced their trust in the captain.
@@AnnthemofArt The way I see it, they both made simple and reasonable mistakes. Eurylochus brought up his issues in front of everyone (mistake), but went to a private room to talk to Odysseus without question. Odysseus refused to hear his brother out (mistake), but it's understandable given the situation. They both made reasonable mistakes
Oh trust me, Eurylochus definitely has the range, and he uses it a few times later in the musical. Especially during the current last Saga, but I won't say more. Also I'm sure you've realized it from other comments and the end of the song, but Ody and Eurylochus aren't just talking amongst themselves. Eurylochus is bringing up his concerns in front of all of the men on the ship. Also, we do get a lot of piano through more of the musical, and people attribute that to Athena watching what's happening from a distance. One other thing, Eurylochus is married to Ody's sister, so they are quite literally brothers. It's why Ody calls him that. Ody doesn't *want* to break out the order for him to stop questioning him, it's why he waits so long. At some point he *has* to put his foot down. But he ends on a softer note, rather than a firmer one. Even when telling Eurylochus to essentially behave in front of the rest of the men, he tries to do it in at least a somewhat gentle way.
I hadn't heard this song wasn't very big until yesterday while listening to someone else react to this saga. I honestly love this song and it's one of my favourites for sure.
Always confused at the fan reaction here. Was it wrong for Eurylochus to challenge Odysseus in front of all the men? Yes, of course. Was it wrong for Odysseus to move the talk to a private location, then tell Eurylochus to shut up instead of engaging with anything he said? Obviously, also yes.
6:16 While I see where you're coming from, I personally like the stiff precision for this character. He's blunt with his word choices, so it makes sense he's blunt with the delivery too. Without giving major spoilers, there will be times in later songs where his delivery is more emotional and less precise. It happens in scenes where it makes thematic sense for Eurylochus to soften his delivery.
The instrument that you hear when Odysseus is being vulnerable is not a harp. It’s a nylon string guitar because his main instrument is a guitar so he gets both nylon string and electric, depending on his mood.
Just a testament to how good this musical is, yes a lot of people (including myself) rank this song lower than the others, yet nobody denies that it is still an incredible song and would still listen to it anytime
One thing with the piano is the lyric being said when the piano is playing. "You rely on wit, and people die on it." it could still be referring to Athena.
Odysseus is embodying/parroting Polites' final lesson here (up until he tries to hand-wave away the crew's concerns & pulls Eurylochus aside) Polites: Think of all that we have been through, we'll survive what we get into Odysseus: Have faith, friend, we've come this far Polites: we'll be fine if we're leading from the heart Odysseus: Lead from the heart, and see what starts Polites: I'd like to show my friend that kindness is brave Odysseus: I still believe in goodness I still believe that we could be kind (Jorge has confirmed the music itself calls back to "Open Arms" at a certain section of this song) Unfortunately Oddesseus' not being very truthful to Polites' advice, since him telling Eurylochus to shut up & get in line isnt very "Open Arms" of him, lol
Eurylochus’ “instrument” is the crew chorus! That’s why when he sings they back up his vocals. I think this is to show the chain of command and listening to his words and following what he believes to be right. Also he sounds a bit more stilted but I think that’s kinda the point he is a very firm military man type!
The "You rely on wit, and people die on it." line actually inspired me to do a playthrough of Baldur's Gate 3 _as_ Odysseus. Since he relies on wit, I made him a bard. That was the first bard I've ever played (I used to have an irrational hatred for bards) and now I can't play BG3 without the character at least having a level in Bard.
This is in one of my best friend's top 3, its really made me grow to appreciate it more (trying to find what's so appealing to him) Though, to be fair, it might just be that Eurylochus is his favorite character & this is the first "Eurylochus-heavy" song
So Eurylochus is Odysseus' brother-in-law. Odysseus has a young sister who marries Eurylochus. Every time he mentions them being brothers, it's partially true
I think the manipulator end part of the song is just more of “you have your sword, i have my tricks, we play with the toys the gods give us” thing. Odysseus is always known for that sort of silver tongue manipulation trickery sort of thing.
Something i think people overlook with this song when defending the crew and Euryluchus having doubts-they lost seven men to the cyclopes. Only seven. (The math for this comes up later, keep the number 43 in your mind since i know youre caught up to Ruthlessness now; 7 from Odysseus' ship, including Polities, are who died to the cyclopes while Poseidon takes out all but Odysseus' ship). I think its really telling of how war-weary they all are that such a low loss amount is what jump-starts the crew having doubts in Odysseus. They also correlate it to his wit somehow, when his wit was what protected them during the Trojan war. Odysseus trying to take in Polites' advice is what ultimately leads to this first set of deaths, especially as his attempt to manipulate the cyclopes goes south due to him miscalculating how easy it would be to drug said Cyclopes and not realizing he'd have a weapon. All it took was, after ten years without a single death from six hundred men, one misstep, the misapplication of Polites' advice, and seven deaths to result in enough distrust that Odysseus was challenged in the open. Odysseus had every right to feel insulted by that, and to remind them that their survival eclipses how many died. He has every right to push for grievances to be handle privately, because Odysseus at this point is not acting in a reckless manner. (And for those who'd argue it, Odysseus was open about what was in the bag. But he'd been challenged in the open and the crew showed reluctance in trusting his word over the idea it was treasure; of course he cant trust them not to open it now. They've shown their respect for him is faltering.) Odysseus isnt right in shutting down Euryluchus entirely, but Euryluchus and the crew arent in the right to let a single incident make them decide their king is untrustworthy and reckless.
Great R/A as usual Peter!! I’m not sure if anyone mentioned this to you but in Epic, only god like beings and non human beings can create their own background vocals. So if you hear background vocals and it’s only humans singing then the background vocals are people in the story so the “how” in the chorus are the other crew members.
I prefer how eurylochus sings in the demo version, that rythm suits his character better. does anyone else remember that version? can it still be found on youtube somewhere?
I feel like Ody pulling him aside is taken different based on which animatic you watch, honestly cause until I saw this one I never thought it was that aggressive. I viewed it more as, "if you doubt me others will and then we won't ever get home without a clear leader and we'll all die" which is true. When you have a fleet of ships you need a clear person in charge of everything. He's also the king which others have mentioned. Also, "the snake" is more clear later on, especially after the newest saga. It's not just meaning Ody being sneaky and witty like people think it does. And yeah he lost people to the cyclops, but they would've all dies if not for him and he was the one hesitant when entering the cave, no one else was. He's always been the one that's most perceptive and on alert. While his two buddies either rush to fight or rush to hug whatever they come across. And the cyclops I think barely killed like 50 people? Not even that many compared to 600.
Odysseus has the most experience speaking with gods, I think his confidence in seeking out the wind god isn’t based on just luck, as Eurylochus fears. And given the options they have atm (the storm Ody assumed might be “divine” and not merely natural as stated in Storm comes into play), asking a god to help isn’t too out of place. I’d empathize with Eurylochus more though, as he is more “mere mortal” than Odysseus and so are the other men. His apprehension is understandable. Its just that he first of all calls him out in front of everyone, disagreeing blatantly, which plants distrust amongst the crew, and secondly, doesn’t offer a solution out of the storm (no one besides Odysseus offers a solution really)
Also regarding odysseus' reaponse to Eurylochus, the last thing you want as a tactician is people doibting your plans will fail, because that is what will make them fail. So nothing hurts more when your second in command starts to doubt your plans, hence his response and him very strongly asking Eury to follow him because if he believes in ody the crew will follow as well.
I've seen a few military commanders who had to take another officer or sergeant aside like this. Seeing so many people surprised by this surprised me. Further, Eurylochus is harshing on his captain's shiny eyed fanboy excitement. Not cool, bro.
Words cannot describe how nice it is to hear you use the words "manipulative" and "tyrant" to describe Odysseus's behavior in this. If this is how he runs Ithaca, Penelope should just choose a suitor.
That is absolutely wrong because they ARENT back home yet, you ask any person that has been in a military, police or survival orientated team and they will explain how Odysseus is ABSOLUTELY correct here.....if you are in a team like this and you have that sort of issue you raise it in private not in front of everyone (which is why Odysseus took him aside) You need to understand that a persons behavior and attitude has to change depending on their environment what works back home is not whats going to work when lives are on the line. Incidentally this is why Polites was wrong as well because his naive way of thinking got lots of them killed because that sort of thinking is good for when you are home and safe
@@MrJpc1234 people are allowed to have their subjective values of right and wrong. Eury wasn’t the only one with doubts, the whole crew had them and he didn’t address any of them bc he is preoccupied with his one goal of getting himself home to his loved ones. Odysseus has almost always been a cautionary tale of pride, rarely a hero partaking on a heroes journey. Also I have family members in the military and none of them would want a leader willing to do the things in the manner Odysseus behaves and choices he makes but regardless the way the average current militaries and police forces globally behave is HARDLY moral. Societies have been pillaging, conquering, and controlling “othered” people for thousands of years so I think YOUR take is absolutely wrong.
@@stiletteleray1326 1. Its fine to have subjective values of right and wrong when you are safe, in a survival situation there there is an objective world thatdoes have right and wrong ways to behave i.e. what puts you in danger or what gets you safe 2. In these criticisms you will see that everyone is saying its fine to have doubts but the way Eurylocus brought it up like that in front of everyone was the problem if he had of had that discussion in private then it wouldbnt be an issue. 3. Well of course Odysseus makes alot mistakes in the story and he makes them because of pride or guilt etc but the point Im raising here is that him calling out Eurylocus here is not one of those mistakes he is perfectly in the right and that would be correct course of action in any similar setting 4. W T actual F does the history of Society conquests and "othered" people have to do about a very specific discussion about how people need to operate in a survival situation saying random stuff like this that has nothing to do with the topic at hand makes me think you care more about how this feels or connects with some sort of wider social or cultural views you have
@@MrJpc1234 every piece of art is a reflection to the greater world. Art doesn’t exist in a vacuum 🙄 and no there is NOT a one size fits all guide to survival. That would be imperial BS thinking.
@@stiletteleray1326 We aren't talking about the artistic side of this so I don't know why your randomly bringing it up Speaking of random why are you saying something is "imperial" wtf does that have to do with anything are you just doing some weird virtue signalling stuff or something Yeah there isn't a "one size fits all" for survival situations because they aren't all the same but because of historical precedent we have a good idea of things NOT to do in high intensity situations and to bring it back to the original point eurylocus actions in this song are an example of what not to do and saying Odysseus is being "manipulative" by telling him off privately about it is incorrect
Okay, so please don't take this in any weird way, but- I'm autistic, so even with visual media I have a hard time looking at people's eyes, so I focus on their mouths (it also helps me understand what people are saying better at a lack of CC due to being hard of hearing)... But I really like the way your mouth moves, it fits your voice, but it's really easy to follow what you're saying. Sorry for the most awkward compliment in existence from a stranger in the internet, back to the video.
18:30 Im sure others have told you but for people in a survival or military situation like Odysseus crew is in Eurylocus is WAY out of line and Odysseus does the right thing pulling him aside, its not tyrannical to do that its that sometimes certain disagreements need to be aired out privately
Odysseus is so manipulative. All Eurylochus did was express concerns about Odysseus's decisions and how they may affect the crew. Leaders have to be open to pushback, and not lash out. Seeds of doubt cannot grow in infertile soil. If doubt about his ability to lead spreads among the crew, they already had some belief that he's become reckless after Polites' death. He's emotionally compromised, which in itself could get the entire crew killed.
Doesn't feel manipulative to me for a captain to privately ask his first mate not to publicly question his decision making in front of the crew. That's how mutinies happen and that's how people die. Especially in the heat of this crisis moment so close to home. Odysseus HAS to be the one making the decisions within this military hierarchy and as other commenters pointed out, that's literally their king too. There have been MUCH more iron fisted or sly and manipulative rulers in history than this for sure.
unpopular opinion, but Luck Runs Out is my least favorite so far in the musical. And i still think its a bop. But compared to the rest. Its such an amazing musical tho
Peter, a large part of my sense of identity and sense of self is a disdain for pop music, so you're really not helping me maintain that by calling my favorite songs pop music. 🤣
nothing personal against your videos in particular, but WHY? WHY are every single youtuber ruining the best reacting by showing it in the intro???? it's so annoying to be spoiled or having to fast forward EVERY SINGLE INTRO... im, just sad and annoyed at this point. is there a public youtube comment field I can complain too about this trend?
It's called a cold open -- people are overstimulated nowadays and often need something to hook them right at the start. Trust me, I don't like it either.
Hi love your show I will be checking out more of it. Kirk and Elizabeth from tcv❤ and I had the incredible honor I've introducing Elizabeth to Zora from the band Blackbriar Kirk and Elizabeth attended their debut concert in America Reminiscent of Kate Bush and Amy Lee who is a dark darker metal sound. Zora is an incredible vocalist with a very unique sound. BlackBriar hasn't put out a bad song yet cicada are from their new album would be great TCV short Six pictures in half a second ruclips.net/user/shortsnNdCba8mXDw?feature=shared
Don't challenge my boy's authority!!! What do y'all think of Odysseus's response to Eurylochus?
Eury had a good point, but was outta line saying it in front of everyone
I think Odysseus was right to pull Eurylochus aside but after telling him not to challenge him in front of the crew he should have heard him out.
ha ha, they will all die except for Oddyseus in exactly 15 songs
I'd probably be a touch ticked if my second was openly undercutting my decisions, Eury def should have stated his concerns in private so as not to undermine the Captain/King's authority in front of the Soldiers.
Don’t forget Ody is king, plus eury his 2nd questioning him is not a good play.
Also Eury’s intrument is apparently the cree
One thing about Luck Runs Out is that Eurylochus is not only questioning Odysseus IN FRONT OF THE CREW, he's also forgetting that Ody is not just their captain, he's also their KING. Ody is confident he can get them out of this, but in order to properly do so, he needs everyone to trust and listen to him, and having his second-in-command doubting him in front of the whole crew makes him look bad.
And what are they to do when their blind trust turns out to be misplaced and Odysseus's confidence turns out to be unwarranted? Eurylochus is concerned for the safety of the crew. He should not be admonished for that, because he's more than likely not saying anything they aren't already thinking. Knowing the second-in-command acknowledges their concerns would boost morale. Blind trust in anyone is dangerous, as is slavish obedience. Odysseus has already made himself look bad by losing his temper and doxing himself to Polyphemus. Even if he weren't the son of Poseidon, that's reckless behavior that is unbecoming for a king or captain.
@@disableddragonborn exactly! And not to mention how many people died because of it
@@Apophis.004 Yeah, I do think Eurylochus was wrong to bring it up in public like that, but when asked to move the conversation to a private room, he does so without question. Odysseus then refuses to listen to anything he says, and tells him to shut up and follow.
@@disableddragonborn The problem isnt that Eurylochus is doubting him, a good 2nd should be there to make sure that captain keeps a level head and point out flaws, the problem is he's sowing even more doubt and fear then what's already there amongst the crew while downplaying the authority of the king and captain. This is very much a conversation that shouldve been had in private and addressed NOT in front of the whole crew. Look at almost any modern day job as an example. Once management starts infighting and constantly bickering over how things should be done, the entire operation starts to break down. Except here instead of a messy workplace or a missed deadline, its people lives that'll be lost because of that infighting.
And ody forgot, that he needs the trust and support of his crew, hw cant just run of doing one risky and stupid thing after the ither, never explqining everything and be from what it looks like extreamly callus with his mens lifes.... While a king is a king, a captain who does not act in his mens best intetest will lose their respect, loyality always has to go both ways....
Something about Eurylochus (the guy with the buzz cut)'s very straight delivery is that he's a military man, so I find his rigid delivery as something that enhances his character.
ahhh that makes sense
@@PeterBarberI will say that I absolutely agreed with you but after hearing him in the Thunder Saga it's pretty clear that Armando (the Eurylochus singer) is definitely able to emote, so this might just be a choice.
Technically speaking, they're all military men. ^^
@@MrSlothJunior yeah, I know, but he was only talking about Eury's singing, so I just mentioned him.
@@MrSlothJunior Yeah, but Ody is a _traumatised_ military man /j
I can say, from a military standpoint and as an officer, it is constantly hammered to never undermine the authority you work with or argue in front of your soldiers. If you have a problem, you grab that person and ask to talk privately to figure out whatever the problem is, which is exactly what Odysseus did with Eurylochus. By having his authority undermined in front of all his men, it makes them all more hesitant to follow orders in a tense situation.
Yeah, but also, hw is plain worried out of his mind foe hia brother ( in law) who is about to do something tremendiously risky. He ia not contesting orders, he is contesting somwonw he loves ans their damned king running of on his own ... Military as far as I know nwver uses their highest in command ans only chance to make it through as a sacrificial pawn!!!
16:54 I love that this animator made the height difference accurate to Jorge and Armando. 🤣
I think, given the nature of the musical, every time we hear the piano it means Athena IS watching. She's just no longer interfering on Odysseus' behalf; the silent observer to see how Odysseus handles these critical moments without her guidance. It also might be a clue to the audience that something important enough is happening that having Athena as a mentor and advisor might come in real handy...
(this is all my speculation FYI).
not really, the clock ticking is the indicator for if Athena is watching or not
Actually, the piano is Eurylochus using Athena's instrument as he attempts to fill her role in the story (the pragmatist). This happens once more in the musical.
I think Odysseus's response is completely valid and justified. When people here "comply and be devout" they will get a bit squigged out, but you have to remember that Odysseus is a general and a king. He is leading these men home and is doing everything he can to get them home safe. When Eurylochus has issue with the choices Odysseus makes, he cannot voice that in public because it shows the rest of the crew that even the second in command disagrees. Mutiny and loss of morale were very real threats to the success of these voyages.
Anyway, can't wait for the next two songs, legit some of my fav tracks in EPIC!
His response was wrong because, after they moved to a private room, he still refused to hear his friend out.
The snake thing may be in reference to the myth of Erikthonius, a “son” of Athena and Hephaestus who was born of a cloth containing both of the gods’ essence after it fell to earth. Athena sensed when he was born and wanted to make him immortal (as he seemingly wasn’t at that point). So she had placed him in a box with a magical serpent that would make him immortal. She gives the box to the princesses of Athens and told them to not open the box until the goddess returned. The girls eventually got concerned because they kept hearing a baby crying in the box and so opened the box releasing the snake. The girls went mad from the sight and jumped off a cliff to their deaths.
Huh interesting, hadn’t heard that one but it’s also like why are the gods leaving boxes with mortals all the time?
@@brendanhart517 Well gods generally don't want to be bothered with certain responsibilities. Childcare being one of them. So why not leave a baby and a snake in a box with a bunch of people with basic empathy. 😅
The only thing that I thought of was when Hera sent snakes to kill baby Heracles.
Remember, Odysseus is not just the captain of this crew. He's the reigning KING of Ithica, and his second in command is questioning him in front of all of his men. While it could have been handled better, Odysseus's reaction isn't exactly unwarranted. His plan is sound, given the options he has. If he's questioned every time he makes a scary decision, he won't be able to keep the loyalty and morale of his men.
Even if he wasn't a king, he is still a captain and a general. He can't have his autority underminded in front of the crew ESPECIALLY not by his second in command.
He is talking about involving a deity in mortal affairs. Odysseus is confident in talking with the wind god due to his history with Athena, a prominent goddess in Greek mythology who he’s been mentored by from a young age.
The rest of the crew do not have any such ties to the gods, they give tribute and sacrifice to them but are also deeply afraid of them. Most mortals do not have a good time when a god becomes involved in their lives, Odysseus doesn’t take that into account and Eurylochus is rightfully scared about the possible repercussions of getting a god’s attention placed on them. Plus Odysseus has lost favour with Athena after the cyclops saga which should have been a sign to be cautious.
Yeah, not only that but he would have actually succeeded if not for the crew's loyalty being thin as tissue paper.
They lost 14 men (I think)... 14! Out of 600 men, in a 10 year war, they lost 14 men to a cyclops, a demigod son of poseidon, one of the big 3.
He quite literally did everything he could have done right, and then he gets put up on blast in front of everyone.
Ody has a lot of self control.
@@zenithstrikerz1720 In greeck myths, the gods constantely involve themeselve in mortals's affairs. They are not distant like in other religions. Plenty of gods such as Pan, Apollo and Dionysus regularly visits the same mortals to party with them or even just to check up.
More importantely, no one can accomplish anything in greeck myths unless they are aided by a god/godesse. I can confidentely say that there isn't a single tale were the hero was successeful withought some form of divine intervention. In order to reach Ithaca, Odysseus and his crew absolutely need to get a god involved. That's just how those myths works.
@@yoannbelleville7763 I’ll admit that I’m not familiar with most stories involving Pan or Apollo so I cannot speak about them in good faith. My point in my last comment is that Odysseus’s crew had no personal connection to the gods and were far more wary of them as all they knew were tales of the gods power and that to get on their bad side would spell certain doom.
@PeterBarter the “multi voice” are the crew singing with Eurylochus as he even though second in command, Jorge says that he is very close to the crew so Eurylochus main instrument is the crew, Eurylochus side instruments will change constantly throughout the song based on the current situation (spoilers ahead, don’t read if you haven’t listen to the thunder saga)
like how Eurylochus fight in Mutiny, the instrument is an electric guitar (Ody instrument) which indicates that Eurylochus is trying to take Ody place as a captain when he chalenges Ody
You might want to put that spoiler under a cut, and it would be best to not even bring up that song title until you've given the spoiler warning and separated the spoiler text.
@@vkdragonfire2123 ok let me do that real quick
A non-spoiler example of Eurylochus's use of other characters' instruments is in this song. The piano (Athena's instrument) accompanies him because he's trying to fill her role (that of the pragmatist).
@@aadityayanamandra8846 true
One of my favorite songs in Epic. I know that you’re getting flak for being a late comer to Epic; but I, personally, enjoy hearing your viewpoint and listening again to these magnificent vocals. Aside: a leader wants followers to express their disagreements with them privately - never in front of others. Similarly, note Odysseus correction was done in private to not undercut his 2nd’s authority.
My opinion on this song changed a lot after later songs. (Spoiler-free comment, I hope.)
The snake thing I think is basically a metaphor. Essentially 'by taking these risks, you're grappling with a snake, and if you keep grappling with a snake, eventually it gets free and bites you.' It might be a reference to a specific myth, idk, others have mentioned Erikthonius.
But for the purposes of the story the important thing is Eurylochus is just saying 'how long until the shit you pull bites us in the ass' but poetically.
Peter you need to catch up real quick! So much fun ahead waiting for you and FYI Jorge will be dropping the latest saga the Wisdom Saga at the end of the month!
Yes pleaseeeee !!!
Nah, let him enjoy the music at his own pace! No need for him to listen to it as soon as it comes out. If anything if he waits there'll be more animatics.
Thank you for calling Ody’s controlling nature out. Many ppl are Ody apologist even tho the Greeks didn’t author heroes to be heroes but to be tales of caution lol the snake imo refers to his hubris. He uses sneaky tactics (Trojan horse/lotus wine) and Eury is asking how long until that snake he uses to attack his enemies bites back.
Fr! Like neither was completely right or wrong but Ody needed to chill tf out, like yes eury shouldn't have brought up the crews doubts ect in public but Ody absolutely shouldn't have basically just told him to shut tf up and follow him regardless of how him or the crew feel, that's just asking for mistrust 🤷
@@phoenix_songbirdarguably, he was pretty chill relative to other kings and commanders of his time. Achilles or Agamemnon would have likely cut Eurylochus down on the spot for challenging them in front of the men, “childhood friend” or not. Absolute power corrupts.
But even by today’s military standards, Eurylochus should have challenged him in private. Unless a second in command is preparing to remove the commanding officer from power on the spot (on charges of incompetence), they need to bring their concerns up away from the ears of the crew or unit. To do so in front of them further demoralizes the situation and can rapidly escalate it from “dangerous” to “unnecessarily d3adly”. And as a seasoned veteran, Eurylochus should have known that.
But let’s be honest: after ten years of war, none of these men (Ody included) would be fully in their right minds. The PTSD and moral injury would be at max levels.
@@rivendells_shona yeah, my only issue with what eury did was that he did it in front of the crew🤷 also something I've noticed after so many rewatches ect it kind of feels like because Ody didn't lose a single soldier in the war, he got cocky (I took 600 men to war and not one of them died) like Ody no🤦
I know people claim it would cause doubt in the men, but Odysseus's own actions would be what does it, because seeds of doubt cannot grow in infertile soil. Seeing the captain be reckless and cause problems would be demoralizing, so seeing the second-in-command voice those concerns, to me, would boost morale, because then I'd know that while the guy at the top doesn't give a damn about or know my concerns, his second-in-command does. Odysseus being incapable of handling being questioned in front of the crew makes me wonder if he handles his role as king the same way, intolerant of any doubt or criticism. If he does, he's a tyrant. Eurylochus is concerned for the crew's safety. He should not have been admonished for that.
@@disableddragonborn yeah, like eury wasn't planting seeds of doubt like Ody says he's voicing the crews existing doubts and worrys and Ody is essentially telling eury and the crew itself to stfu and do as I say regardless of how you feel about my decisions and choices, like dude eury is the voice of the crew he's supposed to voice their concerns/worries ect and look out for them, hence why I was fully on eurys side for mutiny the captain and literal king just admitted he knows exactly what was gonna happen and planned for 6 of his crew *plus* his own second in command(and literal brother in law!) to die in that cave, no second in command that's not a pos is gonna let that slide, his concern is the crew the very crew that the leader basically just told everyone he's willing to sacrifice if it gets *him* home
I am pretty sure the layering on the "how" is also because, while Eurylochus is the one doubting Odysseus, he is speaking for the doubts of the crew, so the layering is like the entire crew singing alond with him. This is also why the layering leaves when Ody speaks to him under 4 eyes.
In all honesty, his "luck" is divine intervention. His luck ran out (for a while, at least) when he disrespected Athena and she left him.
To be fair, Eury was out of line and challenging his captain and *king* in public which his crew probably felt like a kid amongst a parents argument…
Yeah, and you can also see it from Eury’s side too since he’s also going through grief. Polities was his friend too, and he doesn’t want Ody to die or get them into another situation that could potentially get more people killed. They’re brothers-in-law and childhood friends. That’s why Ody trusts him as his right hand, but really Eury should’ve had this talk with him in private to begin with.
@@silvermoon2134 Agreed, but the issue is that once they moved to private Odysseus still refused to hear him out.
I think Ody was only disagreeing so harshly ‘cause Eury brought it up in front of everyone in the first place, so he was worried about his second (the voice
Of the crew) planting seeds of doubt. Though I agree Odysseus should have heard Eurylochus out, so that he could assuage the crew’s worries and reinforced their trust in the captain.
@@AnnthemofArt The way I see it, they both made simple and reasonable mistakes. Eurylochus brought up his issues in front of everyone (mistake), but went to a private room to talk to Odysseus without question. Odysseus refused to hear his brother out (mistake), but it's understandable given the situation. They both made reasonable mistakes
Oh trust me, Eurylochus definitely has the range, and he uses it a few times later in the musical. Especially during the current last Saga, but I won't say more.
Also I'm sure you've realized it from other comments and the end of the song, but Ody and Eurylochus aren't just talking amongst themselves. Eurylochus is bringing up his concerns in front of all of the men on the ship.
Also, we do get a lot of piano through more of the musical, and people attribute that to Athena watching what's happening from a distance.
One other thing, Eurylochus is married to Ody's sister, so they are quite literally brothers. It's why Ody calls him that. Ody doesn't *want* to break out the order for him to stop questioning him, it's why he waits so long. At some point he *has* to put his foot down. But he ends on a softer note, rather than a firmer one. Even when telling Eurylochus to essentially behave in front of the rest of the men, he tries to do it in at least a somewhat gentle way.
I hadn't heard this song wasn't very big until yesterday while listening to someone else react to this saga. I honestly love this song and it's one of my favourites for sure.
Always confused at the fan reaction here. Was it wrong for Eurylochus to challenge Odysseus in front of all the men? Yes, of course. Was it wrong for Odysseus to move the talk to a private location, then tell Eurylochus to shut up instead of engaging with anything he said? Obviously, also yes.
14:32 I *_LOVE_* how this animatic shows that Odysseus is getting bothered by someone offering constructive criticism on behalf of the crew.
6:16 While I see where you're coming from, I personally like the stiff precision for this character. He's blunt with his word choices, so it makes sense he's blunt with the delivery too. Without giving major spoilers, there will be times in later songs where his delivery is more emotional and less precise. It happens in scenes where it makes thematic sense for Eurylochus to soften his delivery.
The instrument that you hear when Odysseus is being vulnerable is not a harp. It’s a nylon string guitar because his main instrument is a guitar so he gets both nylon string and electric, depending on his mood.
Just a testament to how good this musical is, yes a lot of people (including myself) rank this song lower than the others, yet nobody denies that it is still an incredible song and would still listen to it anytime
One thing with the piano is the lyric being said when the piano is playing. "You rely on wit, and people die on it." it could still be referring to Athena.
Odysseus is embodying/parroting Polites' final lesson here (up until he tries to hand-wave away the crew's concerns & pulls Eurylochus aside)
Polites: Think of all that we have been through, we'll survive what we get into
Odysseus: Have faith, friend, we've come this far
Polites: we'll be fine if we're leading from the heart
Odysseus: Lead from the heart, and see what starts
Polites: I'd like to show my friend that kindness is brave
Odysseus: I still believe in goodness I still believe that we could be kind
(Jorge has confirmed the music itself calls back to "Open Arms" at a certain section of this song)
Unfortunately Oddesseus' not being very truthful to Polites' advice, since him telling Eurylochus to shut up & get in line isnt very "Open Arms" of him, lol
From some aspects Luck Runs Out can be counted as part one of Song 24 (not putting the name here for a reason)
Heck yeah you are doing the best version of Luck Runs Out by Jen Vampiresii!!!
Eurylochus’ “instrument” is the crew chorus! That’s why when he sings they back up his vocals. I think this is to show the chain of command and listening to his words and following what he believes to be right. Also he sounds a bit more stilted but I think that’s kinda the point he is a very firm military man type!
Eurylochus's motif/instrument is the crew, so the backup vocals are the crew.
The "You rely on wit, and people die on it." line actually inspired me to do a playthrough of Baldur's Gate 3 _as_ Odysseus. Since he relies on wit, I made him a bard. That was the first bard I've ever played (I used to have an irrational hatred for bards) and now I can't play BG3 without the character at least having a level in Bard.
This is in one of my best friend's top 3, its really made me grow to appreciate it more (trying to find what's so appealing to him)
Though, to be fair, it might just be that Eurylochus is his favorite character & this is the first "Eurylochus-heavy" song
9:27 THAT FLASH OF POLITES WAS NOT OKAY! 😭
So Eurylochus is Odysseus' brother-in-law. Odysseus has a young sister who marries Eurylochus. Every time he mentions them being brothers, it's partially true
I think the manipulator end part of the song is just more of “you have your sword, i have my tricks, we play with the toys the gods give us” thing. Odysseus is always known for that sort of silver tongue manipulation trickery sort of thing.
To be fair Odysseus is not only the captain he is the king and it was kinda on Eurylacus for not asking to speak with Odysseus in private
This _is_ probably one of my favorite songs.
This is one of my favourite EPIC songs :D
"And what's your plan?"
"I'm gonna climb to the top and ask 'em for a hand."
"That's not a plan!"
Your thoughts and opinions are interesting! Thank you :)
The main melody of Luck Runs Out will come back in a major way! This is almost like Eury’s theme song.
Something i think people overlook with this song when defending the crew and Euryluchus having doubts-they lost seven men to the cyclopes.
Only seven.
(The math for this comes up later, keep the number 43 in your mind since i know youre caught up to Ruthlessness now; 7 from Odysseus' ship, including Polities, are who died to the cyclopes while Poseidon takes out all but Odysseus' ship).
I think its really telling of how war-weary they all are that such a low loss amount is what jump-starts the crew having doubts in Odysseus. They also correlate it to his wit somehow, when his wit was what protected them during the Trojan war. Odysseus trying to take in Polites' advice is what ultimately leads to this first set of deaths, especially as his attempt to manipulate the cyclopes goes south due to him miscalculating how easy it would be to drug said Cyclopes and not realizing he'd have a weapon.
All it took was, after ten years without a single death from six hundred men, one misstep, the misapplication of Polites' advice, and seven deaths to result in enough distrust that Odysseus was challenged in the open.
Odysseus had every right to feel insulted by that, and to remind them that their survival eclipses how many died. He has every right to push for grievances to be handle privately, because Odysseus at this point is not acting in a reckless manner.
(And for those who'd argue it, Odysseus was open about what was in the bag. But he'd been challenged in the open and the crew showed reluctance in trusting his word over the idea it was treasure; of course he cant trust them not to open it now. They've shown their respect for him is faltering.)
Odysseus isnt right in shutting down Euryluchus entirely, but Euryluchus and the crew arent in the right to let a single incident make them decide their king is untrustworthy and reckless.
Great job breaking down the music, as always!
Great R/A as usual Peter!! I’m not sure if anyone mentioned this to you but in Epic, only god like beings and non human beings can create their own background vocals. So if you hear background vocals and it’s only humans singing then the background vocals are people in the story so the “how” in the chorus are the other crew members.
I prefer how eurylochus sings in the demo version, that rythm suits his character better.
does anyone else remember that version? can it still be found on youtube somewhere?
I feel like Ody pulling him aside is taken different based on which animatic you watch, honestly cause until I saw this one I never thought it was that aggressive. I viewed it more as, "if you doubt me others will and then we won't ever get home without a clear leader and we'll all die" which is true. When you have a fleet of ships you need a clear person in charge of everything. He's also the king which others have mentioned.
Also, "the snake" is more clear later on, especially after the newest saga. It's not just meaning Ody being sneaky and witty like people think it does. And yeah he lost people to the cyclops, but they would've all dies if not for him and he was the one hesitant when entering the cave, no one else was. He's always been the one that's most perceptive and on alert. While his two buddies either rush to fight or rush to hug whatever they come across. And the cyclops I think barely killed like 50 people? Not even that many compared to 600.
Mason with the pancakes 🥞😂😂
Love your edits, no matter the channel
Odysseus has the most experience speaking with gods, I think his confidence in seeking out the wind god isn’t based on just luck, as Eurylochus fears. And given the options they have atm (the storm Ody assumed might be “divine” and not merely natural as stated in Storm comes into play), asking a god to help isn’t too out of place. I’d empathize with Eurylochus more though, as he is more “mere mortal” than Odysseus and so are the other men. His apprehension is understandable. Its just that he first of all calls him out in front of everyone, disagreeing blatantly, which plants distrust amongst the crew, and secondly, doesn’t offer a solution out of the storm (no one besides Odysseus offers a solution really)
THE FUCKING PANCAKE REFERENCE
Not a favorite song but it’s still so good.
Thx for the reaction
I'm just gonna leave this here, in the original odyssey, the entire story is literally Odysseus' crew not listening and dying because of it.
I feel like one thing that never comes across in EPIC is that odysseus is KING lol
Also regarding odysseus' reaponse to Eurylochus, the last thing you want as a tactician is people doibting your plans will fail, because that is what will make them fail. So nothing hurts more when your second in command starts to doubt your plans, hence his response and him very strongly asking Eury to follow him because if he believes in ody the crew will follow as well.
I've seen a few military commanders who had to take another officer or sergeant aside like this. Seeing so many people surprised by this surprised me.
Further, Eurylochus is harshing on his captain's shiny eyed fanboy excitement. Not cool, bro.
❤
Words cannot describe how nice it is to hear you use the words "manipulative" and "tyrant" to describe Odysseus's behavior in this. If this is how he runs Ithaca, Penelope should just choose a suitor.
That is absolutely wrong because they ARENT back home yet, you ask any person that has been in a military, police or survival orientated team and they will explain how Odysseus is ABSOLUTELY correct here.....if you are in a team like this and you have that sort of issue you raise it in private not in front of everyone (which is why Odysseus took him aside)
You need to understand that a persons behavior and attitude has to change depending on their environment what works back home is not whats going to work when lives are on the line. Incidentally this is why Polites was wrong as well because his naive way of thinking got lots of them killed because that sort of thinking is good for when you are home and safe
@@MrJpc1234 people are allowed to have their subjective values of right and wrong. Eury wasn’t the only one with doubts, the whole crew had them and he didn’t address any of them bc he is preoccupied with his one goal of getting himself home to his loved ones. Odysseus has almost always been a cautionary tale of pride, rarely a hero partaking on a heroes journey.
Also I have family members in the military and none of them would want a leader willing to do the things in the manner Odysseus behaves and choices he makes but regardless the way the average current militaries and police forces globally behave is HARDLY moral. Societies have been pillaging, conquering, and controlling “othered” people for thousands of years so I think YOUR take is absolutely wrong.
@@stiletteleray1326 1. Its fine to have subjective values of right and wrong when you are safe, in a survival situation there there is an objective world thatdoes have right and wrong ways to behave i.e. what puts you in danger or what gets you safe
2. In these criticisms you will see that everyone is saying its fine to have doubts but the way Eurylocus brought it up like that in front of everyone was the problem if he had of had that discussion in private then it wouldbnt be an issue.
3. Well of course Odysseus makes alot mistakes in the story and he makes them because of pride or guilt etc but the point Im raising here is that him calling out Eurylocus here is not one of those mistakes he is perfectly in the right and that would be correct course of action in any similar setting
4. W T actual F does the history of Society conquests and "othered" people have to do about a very specific discussion about how people need to operate in a survival situation saying random stuff like this that has nothing to do with the topic at hand makes me think you care more about how this feels or connects with some sort of wider social or cultural views you have
@@MrJpc1234 every piece of art is a reflection to the greater world. Art doesn’t exist in a vacuum 🙄 and no there is NOT a one size fits all guide to survival. That would be imperial BS thinking.
@@stiletteleray1326 We aren't talking about the artistic side of this so I don't know why your randomly bringing it up
Speaking of random why are you saying something is "imperial" wtf does that have to do with anything are you just doing some weird virtue signalling stuff or something
Yeah there isn't a "one size fits all" for survival situations because they aren't all the same but because of historical precedent we have a good idea of things NOT to do in high intensity situations and to bring it back to the original point eurylocus actions in this song are an example of what not to do and saying Odysseus is being "manipulative" by telling him off privately about it is incorrect
INFINITE #INFINITE
Teen Top #TeenTop
SS501 #SS501
Okay, so please don't take this in any weird way, but- I'm autistic, so even with visual media I have a hard time looking at people's eyes, so I focus on their mouths (it also helps me understand what people are saying better at a lack of CC due to being hard of hearing)... But I really like the way your mouth moves, it fits your voice, but it's really easy to follow what you're saying.
Sorry for the most awkward compliment in existence from a stranger in the internet, back to the video.
React to Sail North - Tale of the Shadow
well, considering the rest of the saga, Ody's comply line really ends up striking true.
Old version song? Or this is the new version?
18:30 Im sure others have told you but for people in a survival or military situation like Odysseus crew is in Eurylocus is WAY out of line and Odysseus does the right thing pulling him aside, its not tyrannical to do that its that sometimes certain disagreements need to be aired out privately
Have to admit, this song was always just ok for me... until the Thunder Saga. No spoilers here, but it made me appreciate this much more.
Odysseus is so manipulative. All Eurylochus did was express concerns about Odysseus's decisions and how they may affect the crew. Leaders have to be open to pushback, and not lash out. Seeds of doubt cannot grow in infertile soil. If doubt about his ability to lead spreads among the crew, they already had some belief that he's become reckless after Polites' death. He's emotionally compromised, which in itself could get the entire crew killed.
Please react to MAYDAY五月天 [盛夏光年] feat. G.E.M. 鄧紫棋!! or anything G.E.M. 鄧紫棋 LIVE!
Doesn't feel manipulative to me for a captain to privately ask his first mate not to publicly question his decision making in front of the crew. That's how mutinies happen and that's how people die. Especially in the heat of this crisis moment so close to home. Odysseus HAS to be the one making the decisions within this military hierarchy and as other commenters pointed out, that's literally their king too. There have been MUCH more iron fisted or sly and manipulative rulers in history than this for sure.
unpopular opinion, but Luck Runs Out is my least favorite so far in the musical. And i still think its a bop. But compared to the rest. Its such an amazing musical tho
Is it unpopular? I feel like it's pretty consistently rated low compared to the rest of the songs in the musical.
Peter, a large part of my sense of identity and sense of self is a disdain for pop music, so you're really not helping me maintain that by calling my favorite songs pop music. 🤣
nothing personal against your videos in particular, but WHY? WHY are every single youtuber ruining the best reacting by showing it in the intro???? it's so annoying to be spoiled or having to fast forward EVERY SINGLE INTRO... im, just sad and annoyed at this point.
is there a public youtube comment field I can complain too about this trend?
It's called a cold open -- people are overstimulated nowadays and often need something to hook them right at the start. Trust me, I don't like it either.
@@PeterBarber thanks for an honest reply.
Hi love your show I will be checking out more of it.
Kirk and Elizabeth from tcv❤ and I had the incredible honor I've introducing Elizabeth to Zora from the band Blackbriar Kirk and Elizabeth attended their debut concert in America
Reminiscent of Kate Bush and Amy Lee who is a dark darker metal sound.
Zora is an incredible vocalist with a very unique sound.
BlackBriar hasn't put out a bad song yet cicada are from their new album would be great
TCV short
Six pictures in half a second
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