@@Kanamo4781 ALL I HEAR ARE SCREAMS EVERY TIME I DARE TO CLOSE MY TAB I NO LONGER STREAM ONLY NIGHTMARES FROM ON THE LIVE NOTHING'S WHAT IT SEEMS NOTHING'S WHAT IT SEEMS CAUSE RUclips STRUCK US DOWN WHEN CALYPSO CAME ON SCREEN RUclips IS MONEY HUNGRY...
the biggest beef Apollo potentially had was the sirens and the killed cow, but as Athena pointed out, they would be more cautious after what happened, and the man who killed the cow was smited by Zeus himself
I was confused about that at first, too. I guess considering Apollo did not refute Athena, then it appears the crime is there are less Sirens than there being absolutely no Sirens.
@@fishnewt1331Yeah. The sirens were originally described as living "throughout the sky, land, and sea," so you could pretty much run into them anywhere. The ones in the Odyssey were just the most famous.
To reference the Odyssey and Calypso - She's one of the two people he's referenced as having slept with. Unlike Circe, however, his consent here is *MUCH* less dubious. She forced herself upon him. Repeatedly. *for years.* He explicitly sat upon the beach during his time there, weeping for his wife and begging to leave. Day after day.
I do love that in the story Penelope isn't like "It's alright that you slept with others because cheating is normal for men" she's literally like "you did not sleep with them. You did not want it and as such there is nothing for you to apologize for." Their love is just something else, man, especially for what people considered a hero in those times.
@@Thatonefannoonelikes Are you referring to the suitors when saying this? With them the implications kinda have to be kept for the story, but the actually acts of SA are cut from Epic for obvious reasons.
Before The Wisdom Saga: "The sheer joy on this man's face! I love this, man!" After the saga: "YOU SON OF A B JORGE WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT TO US!?" Almost all of us went through this sequence when watching Jorge stream it live 😂
Hundred thousands of people, all screaming "Jorge you son of a b-" in unison. That man does not care about our mental health or therapy bills as long as he can make music smh
Reminder of these translations of lines from the odessey about this situation. “In the nights, true, / he’d sleep with her in the arching cave - he had no choice - / unwilling lover alongside lover all too willing” "Calypso is singing with her “breathtaking voice” and weaving at her loom while Odysseus “sat on a headland, weeping there as always, / wrenching his heart with sobs and groans and anguish, / gazing out over the barren sea through blinding tears” Just to say, i don't fully belive ody was just chilling
@@wolfglue I have had these quotes saved away for some time for character discussions, so I may be inaccurate and have forgotten, but I believe it is Robert fagles. If I do recall there are multiple translations with Odysseus time on the island being explicitly non consensual, and even when less explicit, implied. These particular quotes, though, should be from Robert fagles, which you can find on the Internet archive, I am fairly certain
So basically Calypso has spent years raping a man who is trapped with her and has no way out of the situation, how very Greek god of her. I really hope Epic Calypso didn't go quite that far... 😬
I'm pretty sure Jorge confirmed that this version of Calypso never forced herself onto Odysseus. I don't have a source, it's just secondhand info, but... hopefully it's true, because I want to feel sorry for her :( Edit: Okay wow I didn't think my dumb comment was going to get so much attention. Because of my Percy Jackson obsession, I assumed that Jorge was using the interpretation of both Calypso and Odysseus being trapped on Ogygia, especially with "We're trapped in paradise". But you're all right, it's probably the classic interpretation of her keeping him prisoner out of selfishness. Either way, she's in the wrong. I still feel bad for her, though. She seems so lonely.
Odysseus did NOT "just chill" with Calypso. Even in the original myth it was VERY OBVIOUSLY Non-consensual on his part, with him crying on the beach frequently wanting to go home and get away and Calypso having a sort of "If Zeus can force women to do what he wants, why cant I force a king do do what I want" attitude about it, and when Penelope finds out about his "trysts" with Circe (who he was ALSO coerced into by Hermes and Circe as the only way to let his men go in the original myth) and Calypso, her response was along the lines of "you didn't want to do it so you have nothing to apologize for" He's a victim of SA in the original canon.
Yeah but technically in this canon there is no proof that it happened. Because Odysseus also slept with Circe in the original which also did not happen here
TW for SA and mental health- Jorge wasn’t pulling from the later versions where he stays there of his own volition. Epic uses the one where Odysseus doesn’t want to be there at all, and ends up letting Calypso have him due to a spell, but also because he became so numb to everything (as you can see at the end of Love In Paradise). He wanted it all to stop. Calypso wanted to keep him as basically a pet, like they sang, so she wouldn’t be lonely- “Life would be so much worse if you died”. Finally calling to Athena was his Hail Mary
This! I also think alot of the fandom were really happy went Athena said Odysseus had never cheated on his wife because in some versions of the story, Athena counts the SA as cheating. (I could be misinterpreting that though)
@@RatBoyRatRat This is the from the Version where Calypso SAs Odysseus. The cliff scene is an indication, 7 years of nightly SA and daily weeping for the SA and missing his wife has broken him. He believes he betrayed Penelope but the goddesses know that isn’t true. Mind control and threats of death forced him into this
In the original, he did stay of his own volition- at first. When he changed his mind, Calypso tried waiting him out instead of letting him leave. So he stayed for longer than he wanted, but there was a time when he wanted to stay.
I mean...considering he was on a CLIFF and looked like he was just about a few steps from just flinging himself off the top of that cliff and ending it right then and there?...
@@boxtank5288 i was talking specificly about the odyssey not the Epic, i don't remember if there was a suicide atempt in the Odyssey. And besides the whole crying on the beatch, there was a thing there about going to the cave with Calipso. One willing and one unwilling. So on top of home sickness and imprisonment we have sa. Yeah, Ody didn't have a fun time
@@justiceprime9245I don’t think there’s an *attempt* in the Odyssey, but he *is* vaguely suicidal: “she lulls him, always, with soft seductive words, intending him to forget Ithaca. But Odysseus, who yearns for the mere sight of the smoke rising from his own country, only longs to die.”
So Athena's line about Odysseus 's light going dark is a reference to a cut song between him and polites called "your light" which makes it hurt so much more
yeah it makes me more sad because the reason you specifically hear ody's mom, Eurylochus and Polities is because calypso referenced them all unknowingly, eurylochus with her calling him ody (that's Eurylochus' nickname for him) ody's mother because calypso says ''ill stay in your heart'' which is something his mother said to him in the underworld saga and obviously polities from the open arms bit.
@@emkershaw-hf1ed Calypso's last words before the flashbacks kicked in were also "Open arms", like Polties' song, so theres that. Makes it even worse when you realise that the first out of the three that ody hears is "Open arms", practically confirming that she kick started his PTSD.
Yeah, imagine you do something and the gods hate it so much that they just make your next opponent 100x stronger. Don't forget that Telemachus had yet to land a blow in the fight, and literally admitted he didn't know how to fight. Athena did some serious buffing.
Luke Holt actually made sure to Record his Angry part right after waking up to make his voice be extra grumpy and he did it so incredibly well like omg.
I've seen some people point out the line 'to make me feel shame' and I think that's why he got angry enough to straight up blast athena, she was winning the argument, making him feel shame for toying with Odysseus, And Gods Don't Feel Shame...
@@AlexBadger I think the shame actually came from how she won over Hera. Pointing out Odysseus never cheated doesnt directly mention that Zeus is quite different but for someone who makes everything about himself the connection can easily be made towards his own cheating ass which he should *rightfully* feel shame for.
@@AlexBadger OHHH I also thought at some point that his changed line from when he was telling Athena who she'd be trying to convince was a part of it - it went from "AND me" to "OR me" and if that change had more meaning behind it, then that means Athena completely ignored the "or me" or Zeus as an option and went through the 5 gods and goddesses instead, hence why she said "I played your game and won" even if she technically hasn't beaten/convinced Zeus yet
Even in the Odyssey, Calypso had a heavily antagonistic role. He cried on the beach every day of every year he spent there, just wanting to go home. The one where he chilled in the Odyssey is at Circe's Island, and that was for a year. Calypso is stated to essentially have SA'd Odysseus for 7 years.
@@dragonsweat256I hope he still includes the scene from the original Odyssey, where Odysseus and his dog see eachother while he's sneaking into the palace. Odysseus has to ignore him and the dog dies right afterword. It sounds sad (and it is) but that scene has so much meaning that translates easily to today's values. The dog lived much longer he should have in order to keep watch over the family. As soon as he realizes Odysseus is back, he is finally able to rest deeply enough to die, knowing someone is there to take over the job. Argos deserves recognition for a job well done!
28:16 nope nope nope he did NOT “just chill”, if anything the Odyssey goes *harder* on the “he didn’t consent and he was miserable” side of things. The poem repeats how miserable and captive he is over and over again, every time it mentions that he’s trapped with Calypso. “He had no choice. He spent his nights with her inside her hollow cave, not wanting her though she still wanted him. By day he sat out on the rocky beach, in tears and grief, staring in heartbreak at the fruitless sea.” And Calypso “lulls him, always, with soft seductive words, intending him to forget Ithaca. But Odysseus, who yearns for the mere sight of the smoke rising from his own country, only longs to die.” And “Calypso, a great goddess, had trapped him in her cave; she wanted him to be her husband.” “I saw him crying, shedding floods of tears upon Calypso’s island, in her chambers. She traps him there; he cannot go back home. He has no boats with oars or crew to row him across the sea’s broad back to his own land.”
For Hephaestus, I don't think Odysseus' sacrifice of his own men was the sore spot so much as it was Ody's betrayal in general, both with Scylla and his decision before Zeus. After all, Hephaestus' own wife (Aphrodite) ran around behind his back on multiple occasions with Ares so treachery and breach of trust would likely rub him the wrong way.
Even more so since the moment Hephaestus was born he was tossed off Mount Olympus by either Hera (his own mother), or Zeus. Versions vary, but Hephaestus is repeatedly screwed over by everyone.
what also gets me about the end of love in paradise is that calypso literally says "...into my open arms" RIGHT before he started hearing Polities... it just shows that the phrase calypso said made him think of polities more, and evidently making him feel worse
this is with every character that shows up in that sequence (Polites, Eurylochus, and Odysseus's mom whose name I never remembered). For Eurylochus, Calypso calls Odysseus "Ody" which was a nickname only Eury used up to that point. Apollo using it in God Games doesn't count. Then, Calypso said she would stay inside his heart. This is what Ody's mom said down in the Underworld. And obviously Open Arms for Polites this kind of comment goes around quite often, so by the time I finish writing this you might already know, but I felt like adding it because it's relevant, have a good day/night/secret third thing
3:40 I see a lot of people reacting to the "L-l-l-l-legendary" like it's supposed to be a genuine technique, but it's really just meant to be a quick, funny moment of characterization for Telemachus. It works as a transition, but really, he's just being silly and acting like the sheltered kid he is. He's imagining himself as a hero and being a dork. I thought it came across well, but plenty of reactors said it was out of place or that it sounded bad, which is odd because that's clearly kind of the point.
Yeah, he's a goofy dork in a lot of ways. It's supposed to sound strange because he's essentially dancing in his room singing to himself and being weird
I love how playful it makes Telemachus sound! I did see one animatic that interpreted it as a stutter in reaction to the suitors nearby. I thought that was a cool read on it too.
What's fun (kind of funny) about the suitors in the Odyssey itself is whenever they do something particularly egregious and strain hospitality, there's always a mention of some kind of omen or portent happening suggesting that they're pissing Zeus off. At one point they hear thunder in the distance, in another an eagle carries away one of the geese in the courtyard, and every time, one of the members of the house suggests politely that they not push their luck. I think Eurycleia, Odysseus's old nurse, is the one who is the most outspoken about it. But every time someone suggests they quit being dicks, the suitors are all "Nah, it's fine, we don't believe in omens" because they're morons. And then it turns out that they REALLY should have paid more attention to the signs.
That's honestly kind of creepy, imagine you accidentally do something kinda mean(not defending the suitors, they were assholes on purpose), and then you hear thunder in the distance, or an eagle screeches at you
@@comfy-y4zI think back then it would have been really hard to "accidentally" do something mean or rude enough to piss off the Gods. The rules of hospitality would have been well-known, and I doubt a minor offense here or there that would be a legit accident would be enough to annoy any of the Gods. It would have to be something pretty severe to get one of them genuinely pissed at you.
@@WittySomething exactly what I mean though, whether it’s intentional actions such as disregarding the laws of hospitality or trying to steal a god’s wife or through accidentally means like seeing a goddess bathe or killing their favorite sacred animal it’s actually rather easy to piss of a god if you weren’t really careful
"Oh he's having a great time" Odysseus: explicitly is described as being forced to sleep with Calypso, against his will, and crying after, for 7 years with no way to get out of here and her making fun of him trying to push her away.
Yeeeah, but you can't blame the guy for not knowing that he was forced to spend every night with Calypso (he was literally described as her "female slave" in the original text) while spending every day crying about it on the beach.
@@Goomsies What is the quote for this, if you can recall it. I may have missed it but him being refferred to as such doesn't ring any bells and its interesting
let's say chilling is the *last* thing Odysseus did on Calypso's island. Jorge did it much less explicit than the original work, but damn. Calypso is a little Cuckoo in the head because she is as much as a prisoner on this island as Ody because her father, none other than the titan Atlas, was fighting in the titan war with Zeus. and she was punished for that as well. i don't condemn her actions, but forcing yourself on someone EVERYDAY for SEVEN YEARS can make anyone want to kill themselves.
*condone Although, I guess condemn could be applicable in the sense that she is already in an eternal punishment she cannot escape from and losing who she perceives as the love of her life might be enough.
@@TheSaharay1: Regardless of the original work, a teaser of the song “I’m Not Sorry For Loving You” displays Jorge makes canon in “Epic the Musical” that Calypso is indeed a prisoner on her own island. So, the above comment still is applicable, even if it is not in the original work.
I laughed so hard at Athena's line at Hera "never once has he cheated on his wife". Such a perfect line. I also think it is kind of sweet that Ares is the one to ask if Athena is dead. Aren't they half siblings if I don't remember the mythos wrong?
Ares was the son of Zeus and Hera, while Athena was the daughter of Zeus and Metis (Zeus's first wife), though that's a little more confusing. Some stories have Athena born from Zeus's head, no mother required, while other stories have her escape from his forehead after Zeus takes a page from his father's book and swallows Metis when he discovers she is pregnant, fearing his child would do to him what he did to his own father. Athena is born anyway and fights her way out, earning Zeus's admiration. She was his favorite child from then onward.
With Athena being one of Ares most common opponent, I like the idea of Ares holding concern for her as such a valued and respected adversary. What's a god of war without a worthy being to fight.
Everyone talks about polites but no one ever talks about how in that same scene you hear eurylochus singing luck runs out and his mother singing her part in the underworld
Um not so fun fact part of the reason Odysseus is so miserable at the end of love in paradise is Calypso SA’s him repeatedly during those 7 years and its literal torture for him because all he wants is to get back to his wife who in his eyes hes being unfaithful to with Calypso (even tho its is absolutely not his fault) so yeeaahhhhh also Calypso uses lines from all the dead voices he hears “ody get away from the ledge” is a reference to “ody were never gonna make it home alive you know its true” “ill stay inside your heart” is a direct quote from his mom in the underworld and of course “stay in my open arms” is referencing polite’s song… she did say he talked in his sleep so
@@stevenhedge2850I mean Polites didn't died at Polyphemus cave in the Odyssey but here we are 🥲🥲🥲 but i do think Athena somehow still alive (coping and delusional rn) and we will see her in future saga
On the Circe comment: To be fair she did not listen to him trying to talk her out of keeping his kidnapped, transmogrified crew and eating them for dinner. He had to beat her and her summon up, then to resist her charms and to bare out his heart. Sure being kind at the end made her act kind because "This man is the biggest simp ever, there's no way he'll be a monster to me and mine", but he had to get there with violence, something that he wouldn't have done if he was just plain good.
@@draeonic Tbf she did react to "you turned my men into pigs" by showing off her magic and threatening him with all the ways she could hurt him and beat him. Maybe he could tty and sweet talk from there but it was a direct escalation and he answered with his own by saying "you can't affect me, what now?"
@@laurasibob1106 oh she absolutely went for the conflict first. And I'm not even saying his approach was wrong, only that we don't know that the violence and awkward sexual situation were really prerequisites to the good ending. All we do know is that it's the vulnerability and openness that clinched it.
Calyspo on the cliff scene probably triggered Odysseus’s whole panic attack(?) - She says ‘Ody’ (I think only Eurylochus has used this nickname) - “I’ll stay inside your heart” is the same thing his dead mother sang “Come back in my OPEN ARMS” She probably heard this when we talked in his sleep
28:14 In the original Odyssey he’s also trapped, he enjoys it for a little while but after that it literally says ‘His eyes were always tearful; he wept sweet life away, in longing to go home, since she no longer pleased him. He had no choice. He spent his nights with her inside her hollow cave , not wanting her though she still wanted him. By day he sat out on the rocky beach, in tears and grief, staring in heatbreak at the fruitless sea’
Ironically Athena being the god of wisdom and so the only one who's self aware enough to feel regret which also makes her a master manipulator who also understands everyone else kinda makes sense.
Fun fact! Gigi made a post saying that she was taking a break and that the next animatic we saw would probably be for wisdom saga, then we watch the live stream and see love in paradise. Tricky animator
I think the line “ I could sleep at night” is a callback to the line “what’s a title, that a goddess could lend? If i’ll never *sleep at night* ” from “My Goodbye”
Suitor throws bowl at the Son of the very Woman he is trying to impress. Penelope: "You are disqualifyd. Find another "tramp" to marry." Athena is conciderd to be Zeus favorite, but he still went full Apeshif on her. Shows how petty and childish he is.
@@SantosoWijayaI kind of wonder if when she says “I've no respect for bullies / Those who impose their will / I've seen plenty enough / To truly understand this kind of filth” that she might even be thinking of Zeus as an example
@@liminalpsych I need a Fanfic or something written about Zeus being petty and childish as well as the abuse and trauma the gods probably have (basically humanizing of the gods lol if that's possible).
You make a lot of assumptions. The version of the Odyssey you must have read had to have been one interesting translation. Odysseus isn't going to kill Telemachus. The suitors are Ithica citizens, which means the laws of hospitality don't apply. Athena feels guilty about how things between her and Ody ended, so after the song with Telemachus she goes to find him. Time dives his memories and finds him when he calls her name on Ogygia. She goes to Zeus because Zeus is the one that put him on Calypso's island. In what telling is he on Ogygia by choice? No he's trapped there for 7 years being 🍇ed by Calypso until Hermes shows up to demand she release him. Any Sex Odysseus had with Calypso or Circe was none consensual on his part. They don't care that he's married or said no. Athena' red blood has actually been addressed by the animator that did it. It symbolizes Athena basically learning to be human and understand human loss and emotions. Ares being the one to ask if Athena is dead actually shows that despite their differences he still cared for his sister. Athena is not dead. Jorge hinted at that earlier in the saga when Calypso says Goddesses can't die.
‘The Warrior of the Mind’ theme switching to ‘Legendary’ during ‘We’ll Be Fine’, and, finally, at the memory when she first held Telemachus is so cute and so heartbreaking. She remembered the family, the man she raised from childhood to be a warrior, and his son who became her friend. She fought for them to right the wrongs she had committed, even if it cost everything. My heart, man
Also yeah uh- in the original he wasn't exactly chilling there, more like stuck and being taken advantage of since the entire time was him spending everyday crying for his wife
I love that your interpretation of events is so completely different from mine 😂. Considering that the Odyssey opens with Athena asking Zeus to have mercy on Odysseus because of everything he's suffered, and she approaches Telemaches to begin bringing him home at last. Also, Calypso fell in love with Odysseus and did in fact keep him on her island against his will - the gods had to command her to release him.
On the topic of why all the gods athena had to convince all kinda just fell over, its probably just cause they really dont care. They have no reason to care, only Aphrodite and Ares had any real ground to argue which is why they nearly said no.
The Wisdom Saga is based off of video games. Apollo and Hephaestus were level 1 and 2, this making them the easiest ones. Aphrodite and Ares were level 3 and 4, making them a bit harder to convince. Hera's level 5 and Zeus is the final level.
It gets me so bad when it was so easy with "He never once cheated on his wife" and she's like "...Release him." LOL Also hearing Polites always makes me wanna cry uuuugh
Bold of you to asume that one Siren killing spree equals a full genoside of the species xD Logic left aside, Apollo even says "so many Sirens gone" not "all Sirens gone"
Eh, in the Odyssey he did NOT just chill with Calypso, at least the version I read. It said he spent every day sobbing on the rocks staring off into the sea and his nights trapped with her in the cave pretty uh ...unwillingly. But the sheer inability to get out of there is part of the issue. And honestly, God Games is just that, rounds or levels of a game - Zeus is toying with Athena, thinking it will stall or stop her and geting infuriated when she outwits him.
Love the analysis. Though, I think the you over-analyzed the choice of gods,. This is just a game to Zeus. My impression is that he's just picking powerful deities within the pantheon because he can. If it was about convincing those Odysseus has wronged, no way Poseidon wouldn't be there. Could also be why some of them (mainly Apollo and Hephaestus) don't take much convincing. They're not as invested. Normally, Hera would probably take more convincing, but Athena set her up with one hell of an argument that she couldn't overlook.
Remember Calypso said Odysseus talks in his sleep. Her calling him Ody and saying how sad shed be if he died is a reference to the last person who did that Eurolychs(in luck runs out and mutiny), the line ill stay inside your heart was what his mother said in the underworld and stay in my open arms is clearly Polites thats why he hears their refrains explicitly. She was driving that man crazy
So, one thing that everyone seem to forget. or at least all animators I´ve checked, is that cannonically, the lestrygonians are helping smash Odysseus' crew during ruthlessness. Since the original release party live, and all following lives where ruthlessness is featured, the lestrygonians are there, smashing giant bolders into the boats. But they're normally not animated since people tend to focus on poseidon's destruction/rage
I mean, Athena definitely told Odysseus he wasn't her friend, during their final goodbye. She realized what he was to her and where she had gone wrong only afterwards, which causes her to treat Telemachus differently and to refer to Ody as her friend. And, comparatively, Odysseus went the opposite way, becoming what Athena wanted him to. He became a ruthless monster, who works with his brain and makes tough decisions. So, instead of meeting halfway through, they almost swapped place
ALSO!! THE REASON WHY THE GODS APOLLO, HEPHASTUS, APHRODITE, ARES AND HERA WERE THERE WAS BECAUSE THOSE ARE ALL THE GODS THAT SIDED WITH THE TROJANS WHILE ATHENA WAS THE ONE THAT SIDED WITH THE ACHAENS (the side Odysseus was on) Zeus chose those Gods since the team they were rooting for (the Trojans,) lost. He did this cause he expect tension between them and Athena
"Love In Paradise" is structured, narratively, from the perspective of Athena. With "Little Wolf" and "We'll Be Fine" happening before or not long after Ody reaches Calypso, though the timeline is a bit iffy. She's standing atop an hourglass in the "god realm" for lack of a better name, viewing the last 10 years of Odysseus' life. When we see Ody on the cliff edge and calling out to Athena, the timing of it arguable but Ody's journey is only 20 years so, she caught him calling gor help fairly quick.
You're right but it's not a crazy assumption to make. Not nearly as egregious as all those reactors who thought the first song was still Odysseus singing. 😑
Actually, in the Odyssey, Odysseus is kept on Calipso's island against his will. Circe's island is the one where he and his men rested for a year before deciding to live (they REALLY needed a vacation).
13:48 not actually all that big of a change. In the original there was a fight between Telemachus and Antinous at roughly this point in the book (well probably more like year 17 of Odysseus being away) which was the catalyst for Telemachus leaving to try and find his dad by asking the other returnees from Troy, partially out of fear the suitors would kill him (which they actually plan to do on his return in the original, although they end up too sloshed to do so along with Telemachus coming later than expected and docking in a different place thanks to Athena). Apart from that they weren't just rude, they explicitly r*ped several of household maids and other female slaves, slaughtered the majority of the household flocks (which were the source of wealth/livelihood of the household) to fuel their constant partying, as well as emptying the pantry and wine-cellar, and killed at least two of the male household slaves/retainers that were faithful to Odysseus and Penelope.
My interpretation for Apollo was that Odysseus set an example for other sirens that witnessed it, making them more cautious when going to hunt sailors (seeing if any are armed, trying to hide away empty ships, ect.)
Great reaction! I enjoyed this thoroughly esp dropping Greek and Roman mythology nuggets here and there. Thanks as well for pausing to check out the monsters in the audience! That quick scene took a while. If you look again though, it's actually almost all the monsters Telemachus mentions in Legendary (water and bird siren types sitting next to each other). Cerberus is there but got cropped out due to lack of space.
Fun fact: liam Davidson ( the one who made the little wolf street fighter game vid ) is actually making an epic the musical video game with the epic crew! Its really cool how their doing this and i ACTUALLY cannot wait!
"In the Odyssey he just chilled" Uh. Um. What part of this sounds like 'just chilling'? _In the nights, true, / he’d sleep with her in the arching cave - he had no choice - / unwilling lover alongside lover all too willing_ and Odysseus spending his days _sat on a headland, weeping there as always, / wrenching his heart with sobs and groans and anguish, / gazing out over the barren sea through blinding tears_ I'd even argue that by being vague on whether Calypso actually got what she wanted and sang about concerning them climbing to bed together Epic is making her LESS of a clear antagonist/villain
Let's not forget that Apollo is also the god of _prophecy_ so he would know how everything ends. He doesn't put in any effort because he knows he doesn't need to.
To me Apollo’s section implies there are more groups of sirens in the sea instead of just on one island, which makes sense because if they were confined to one place, Odysseus wouldn’t be surprised to detect signs of sirens in siren territory
Usually in media when a character(s) dies it’s sad for a second and then never brought up again. So to have Odysseus go through actual PTSD really made me feel understood because I also lost someone really close to me. So seeing someone finally interpret how I felt was so sad and just kinda refreshing. (The fact that I was balling my eyes out remembering those times I was grieving was not refreshing I mean the fact that the feelings I couldn’t explain were being shown was refreshing)
Love your reactions and analysis. It’s always nice to watch someone who has knowledge on the original because that's the same way I've been experiencing the musical.
He definitely didnt chill on calypsos island in the odyssey. Like not at all. Here are some snippets from the Odyssey while he was on calypsos island: “In the nights, true, / he’d sleep with her in the arching cave - he had no choice - / unwilling lover alongside lover all too willing” "Calypso is singing with her “breathtaking voice” and weaving at her loom while Odysseus “sat on a headland, weeping there as always, / wrenching his heart with sobs and groans and anguish, / gazing out over the barren sea through blinding tears”
The "water monsters" on the rocks were the Laestrygonians, the giants who gave the Land of the Giants its name. In the Odyssey, it was them who killed Ody's men by hurling rocks and breaking apart their ships.
Ody didn't 'just chill' in the Odyssey. Explicitly said is that he wept every day on the beach and was forced into her bed every night against his will.
I think in EPIC, there are more than just one group of sirens in the ocean, so the group of sirens Odysseus met were killed, but all the other groups of sirens would survive
His reaction to the ending was basically mine, minus the swearing. I was so sad, especially because Athena is my favorite character in Epic The Musical, and one of my favorite goddesses.
At 28:16 had me raising my brows lol. He was not chill at all like literally first appearance in the odyssey he’s crying all the time, begging to be sent home. That poor man.
if it makes you feel any better(spoiler), im pretty sure she lives since i remember reading one of the stage directions for when odysseus will be killing the suitors, and it said 2athena warns telemachus of a suitor behind him" meaning that she will live but Jorge it might change it.
His energy and enthusiasm as he explains and elaborates the wisdom saga is amazing this is one pf the few times my recommend feed actually recommend me something good.
The royal family of Ithaca needs a therapist. Penelope's locked herself away, Telemachus's best day of his life was getting in a fight and not dying, and Odysseus... is Odysseus. 😂
Deep cut but all the Gods mentioned in God Games all played a part in the Trojan War. Athena, Hera, and Aphrodite started the war by making Hector the Judge for a beauty contest. Aphrodite won and she gave him Helen Ares, Posiden & Zeus were on the side of the Trojans with Apollo and Hephaestus being neutral aiding whoever. Kinda makes sense why those gods they gotta convince
Just Athena falling to Zeus' lightning, and he actually stops when she reaches out pleading to let Odysseus go. That hit me in the feels. Also, when Athena rallies, you hear the melody from the song "Warrior of the Mind" ie Odysseus' and Athena's friendship song. That shows that she used her memory of her friend to stand up against her dad, aka Zeus King of the Gods. That shook the bastard. Of course, the rest of the gods cannot go against Zeus or even stop his rampage. Cause he is King. What he says goes. There is no stopping him. So the fact that Athena was willing to go against him at all is remarkable. But even more than that, she's doing it for a mortal friend of hers. I agree it is awful that it stopped there.
23:32 I assume the "water monsters" are the Laestrygonians, since the wind bag brought them to "the land of the giants", which would be Lamos, the home of the Laestrygonians.
20:37 this is called homophrosyne "like-mindedness", and The Odyssey is typically one of the first results, towards Odysseus and Penelope, when searching the term. So, yes, you are correct in this assumption
Just gonna add to the pain for Love in Paradise: Calypso references that Ody talks in his sleep and then when he's on the ledge she uses the words of his loved ones Calypso: I'll STAY INSIDE YOUR HEART(Ody's mom) Calypso: stay in my OPEN ARMS (Polites) Also Calypso saying open arms started ody hearing their voices
Now, imagine 100k+ people screaming “CAPTAIN!” when the stream was stopped by RUclips.
Yea that was pretty incredible to see live
RUclips: Die. Chatters: Captain! Captain Captain!
@@Burgertimee Why would you shut down the stream, when ruthlessness is mercy!
Heh…yeah…I was apart of that
@@Kanamo4781 ALL I HEAR ARE SCREAMS EVERY TIME I DARE TO CLOSE MY TAB
I NO LONGER STREAM
ONLY NIGHTMARES FROM ON THE LIVE
NOTHING'S WHAT IT SEEMS
NOTHING'S WHAT IT SEEMS
CAUSE RUclips STRUCK US DOWN WHEN CALYPSO CAME ON SCREEN
RUclips IS MONEY HUNGRY...
Apollo and Hephaestus were easy to convince because they didn't really have any beef with Odysseus they were just called to trial😂
Fr
apollo was also kinda already homies with odysseus lol
They both gave the vibes of dad made me be here
the biggest beef Apollo potentially had was the sirens and the killed cow, but as Athena pointed out, they would be more cautious after what happened, and the man who killed the cow was smited by Zeus himself
@@johnshirayuki Also, the cows weren't his. They belonged ti Helios.
Honestly the never cheating on his wife line probably would still work even if Zeus was loyal since she's the goddess of marriage
And let's not forget about Jason... And most of the other Greek heroes besides Ody-
yes, but its extra effective because of the cheating, and using it definitely a large reason why Zeus is so mad at the end.
@@mielliot13 because that would pretty much be the only way to convince Hera?
Hera might have been more thoughtful rather that -DO IT... and Zeus wouldn't be ticked.
Odysseus did not kill ALL the sirens. He just killed those specific sirens
Yeah probably like 30-40 maybe
I was confused about that at first, too. I guess considering Apollo did not refute Athena, then it appears the crime is there are less Sirens than there being absolutely no Sirens.
@@fishnewt1331plus, as god of prophecy, he already knew how it’d end, so he didn’t fight it much
@@fishnewt1331Yeah. The sirens were originally described as living "throughout the sky, land, and sea," so you could pretty much run into them anywhere. The ones in the Odyssey were just the most famous.
That's how I interrupted it too. He killed those sirens so now the others are cautious
To reference the Odyssey and Calypso - She's one of the two people he's referenced as having slept with. Unlike Circe, however, his consent here is *MUCH* less dubious. She forced herself upon him. Repeatedly. *for years.* He explicitly sat upon the beach during his time there, weeping for his wife and begging to leave. Day after day.
I do love that in the story Penelope isn't like "It's alright that you slept with others because cheating is normal for men" she's literally like "you did not sleep with them. You did not want it and as such there is nothing for you to apologize for." Their love is just something else, man, especially for what people considered a hero in those times.
@laurasibob1106 IKR it's so sweet, as traumatised as Ody was, they're couple goals. I wanna achieve that.
The SA in EPIC is cut, but Calypso otherwise being the worst remains.
@@aadityayanamandra8846I wouldn’t say it’s CUT. Iykyk:(
@@Thatonefannoonelikes Are you referring to the suitors when saying this? With them the implications kinda have to be kept for the story, but the actually acts of SA are cut from Epic for obvious reasons.
Before The Wisdom Saga: "The sheer joy on this man's face! I love this, man!"
After the saga: "YOU SON OF A B JORGE WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT TO US!?"
Almost all of us went through this sequence when watching Jorge stream it live 😂
Sounds like most of our reactions to the Thunder Saga despite most of us knowing about what was coming.
Hundred thousands of people, all screaming "Jorge you son of a b-" in unison. That man does not care about our mental health or therapy bills as long as he can make music smh
I actually teared up to the Open arms callback
@@feldfosfulyeah but counterpoint... He makes damn good music
Classic Epic experience.
zeus’s voice sounds different cuz hes ACTUALLY angry this time
and boy does Luke Holt do that voice so well
He knocked that shit out of the park man.
As Jorge refers Beast mode Zeus
He went way deeper in the register than in Thunder Bringer, SOMEHOW, it was amazing.
Reminder of these translations of lines from the odessey about this situation.
“In the nights, true, / he’d sleep with her in the arching cave - he had no choice - / unwilling lover alongside lover all too willing”
"Calypso is singing with her “breathtaking voice” and weaving at her loom while Odysseus “sat on a headland, weeping there as always, / wrenching his heart with sobs and groans and anguish, / gazing out over the barren sea through blinding tears”
Just to say, i don't fully belive ody was just chilling
This
What translation is this? I’d love to read it
@@wolfglue I have had these quotes saved away for some time for character discussions, so I may be inaccurate and have forgotten, but I believe it is Robert fagles. If I do recall there are multiple translations with Odysseus time on the island being explicitly non consensual, and even when less explicit, implied. These particular quotes, though, should be from Robert fagles, which you can find on the Internet archive, I am fairly certain
So basically Calypso has spent years raping a man who is trapped with her and has no way out of the situation, how very Greek god of her. I really hope Epic Calypso didn't go quite that far... 😬
I'm pretty sure Jorge confirmed that this version of Calypso never forced herself onto Odysseus. I don't have a source, it's just secondhand info, but... hopefully it's true, because I want to feel sorry for her :(
Edit: Okay wow I didn't think my dumb comment was going to get so much attention. Because of my Percy Jackson obsession, I assumed that Jorge was using the interpretation of both Calypso and Odysseus being trapped on Ogygia, especially with "We're trapped in paradise". But you're all right, it's probably the classic interpretation of her keeping him prisoner out of selfishness. Either way, she's in the wrong. I still feel bad for her, though. She seems so lonely.
Odysseus did NOT "just chill" with Calypso. Even in the original myth it was VERY OBVIOUSLY Non-consensual on his part, with him crying on the beach frequently wanting to go home and get away and Calypso having a sort of "If Zeus can force women to do what he wants, why cant I force a king do do what I want" attitude about it, and when Penelope finds out about his "trysts" with Circe (who he was ALSO coerced into by Hermes and Circe as the only way to let his men go in the original myth) and Calypso, her response was along the lines of "you didn't want to do it so you have nothing to apologize for"
He's a victim of SA in the original canon.
Yeah but technically in this canon there is no proof that it happened. Because Odysseus also slept with Circe in the original which also did not happen here
This is not the wisdom saga, this is emotional damage saga!
Sounds about right. 😭
They're all the Emotional Damage saga.
@@kungknas6108the reason EPIC is always in all caps is because it's an acronym. The E stands for Emotional damage
@@itzwizory9556 Emotional damage, Pain, Injuries to the soul, and Crushed spirit, sounds about right.
@@kungknas6108Perfect Analysis
TW for SA and mental health-
Jorge wasn’t pulling from the later versions where he stays there of his own volition. Epic uses the one where Odysseus doesn’t want to be there at all, and ends up letting Calypso have him due to a spell, but also because he became so numb to everything (as you can see at the end of Love In Paradise). He wanted it all to stop. Calypso wanted to keep him as basically a pet, like they sang, so she wouldn’t be lonely- “Life would be so much worse if you died”. Finally calling to Athena was his Hail Mary
This! I also think alot of the fandom were really happy went Athena said Odysseus had never cheated on his wife because in some versions of the story, Athena counts the SA as cheating. (I could be misinterpreting that though)
@@RatBoyRatRat This is the from the Version where Calypso SAs Odysseus. The cliff scene is an indication, 7 years of nightly SA and daily weeping for the SA and missing his wife has broken him. He believes he betrayed Penelope but the goddesses know that isn’t true. Mind control and threats of death forced him into this
In the original, he did stay of his own volition- at first. When he changed his mind, Calypso tried waiting him out instead of letting him leave. So he stayed for longer than he wanted, but there was a time when he wanted to stay.
With Apollo and the Sirens I figured there's probably more Sirens, Odysseus just killed a small group of them
In Different Beasts Odysseus did say “there are packS of you hiding”. He said pack(s) plural. I think he only killed one pack, singular.
Considering Odysseus was described crying a lot on Calipso's island, he wasn't chiling
I mean...considering he was on a CLIFF and looked like he was just about a few steps from just flinging himself off the top of that cliff and ending it right then and there?...
Odysseus: I’m I being kidnapped?
Calypso: No 😊
Odysseus: so can I leave?
Calypso: No…no 😊
@@boxtank5288 i was talking specificly about the odyssey not the Epic, i don't remember if there was a suicide atempt in the Odyssey.
And besides the whole crying on the beatch, there was a thing there about going to the cave with Calipso. One willing and one unwilling.
So on top of home sickness and imprisonment we have sa.
Yeah, Ody didn't have a fun time
@@justiceprime9245I don’t think there’s an *attempt* in the Odyssey, but he *is* vaguely suicidal:
“she lulls him, always, with soft seductive words, intending him to forget Ithaca. But Odysseus, who yearns for the mere sight of the smoke rising from his own country, only longs to die.”
@@boxtank5288 "Just let me close my eyes" tells me he was only a single step away from that ;__;
So Athena's line about Odysseus 's light going dark is a reference to a cut song between him and polites called "your light" which makes it hurt so much more
We'll Be Fine sounds like a reworking of that song to me but it's been a minute since I've listened to it
Its called "your light" right the one that goes
Let me be your lightttt
I love how not only Polites, but Eurylochus and Ody's mother are heard in 'Love in Paradise'
You could hear almost everyone in LiP, most lines came back and were reprised
yeah it makes me more sad because the reason you specifically hear ody's mom, Eurylochus and Polities is because calypso referenced them all unknowingly, eurylochus with her calling him ody (that's Eurylochus' nickname for him) ody's mother because calypso says ''ill stay in your heart'' which is something his mother said to him in the underworld saga and obviously polities from the open arms bit.
@@emkershaw-hf1ed Yeah, Calypso quite literally triggered his PTSD and gave him a spout of flashbacks is what it looks and sounds like 😬
@@emkershaw-hf1ed Calypso's last words before the flashbacks kicked in were also "Open arms", like Polties' song, so theres that. Makes it even worse when you realise that the first out of the three that ody hears is "Open arms", practically confirming that she kick started his PTSD.
"This is asking for a god to come down and smite you." Or, and hear me out, getting a goddess to buff your opponent out of spite.
Yeah, imagine you do something and the gods hate it so much that they just make your next opponent 100x stronger.
Don't forget that Telemachus had yet to land a blow in the fight, and literally admitted he didn't know how to fight. Athena did some serious buffing.
@@DetectiveWraith Maybe pushed a little too hard.
Luke Holt actually made sure to Record his Angry part right after waking up to make his voice be extra grumpy and he did it so incredibly well like omg.
😮
I've seen some people point out the line 'to make me feel shame' and I think that's why he got angry enough to straight up blast athena, she was winning the argument, making him feel shame for toying with Odysseus,
And Gods Don't Feel Shame...
@@AlexBadger I think the shame actually came from how she won over Hera. Pointing out Odysseus never cheated doesnt directly mention that Zeus is quite different but for someone who makes everything about himself the connection can easily be made towards his own cheating ass which he should *rightfully* feel shame for.
@@foxicity6716 possibly, but he's been cheating on her for centuries, why would he lash out at one of his few non cheating children now?
@@AlexBadger OHHH I also thought at some point that his changed line from when he was telling Athena who she'd be trying to convince was a part of it - it went from "AND me" to "OR me" and if that change had more meaning behind it, then that means Athena completely ignored the "or me" or Zeus as an option and went through the 5 gods and goddesses instead, hence why she said "I played your game and won" even if she technically hasn't beaten/convinced Zeus yet
Even in the Odyssey, Calypso had a heavily antagonistic role. He cried on the beach every day of every year he spent there, just wanting to go home. The one where he chilled in the Odyssey is at Circe's Island, and that was for a year. Calypso is stated to essentially have SA'd Odysseus for 7 years.
Actually the Telemacus and dog scene, was actually make based of Jorge's own request. He posted tiktok showing how he want that to be animated
all of the clips in the livestreams are designed based on Jorge's drafts
@@justiceprime9245 "I want to see that dog in legendary... And then I never want to see that dog again"
@@dragonsweat256I hope he still includes the scene from the original Odyssey, where Odysseus and his dog see eachother while he's sneaking into the palace. Odysseus has to ignore him and the dog dies right afterword. It sounds sad (and it is) but that scene has so much meaning that translates easily to today's values.
The dog lived much longer he should have in order to keep watch over the family. As soon as he realizes Odysseus is back, he is finally able to rest deeply enough to die, knowing someone is there to take over the job. Argos deserves recognition for a job well done!
@@Goomsiesthe bestest boy
28:16 nope nope nope he did NOT “just chill”, if anything the Odyssey goes *harder* on the “he didn’t consent and he was miserable” side of things. The poem repeats how miserable and captive he is over and over again, every time it mentions that he’s trapped with Calypso.
“He had no choice. He spent his nights with her
inside her hollow cave, not wanting her
though she still wanted him. By day he sat
out on the rocky beach, in tears and grief,
staring in heartbreak at the fruitless sea.”
And
Calypso “lulls him, always, with soft seductive words, intending him to forget Ithaca. But Odysseus, who yearns for the mere sight of the smoke rising from his own country, only longs to die.”
And
“Calypso, a great goddess,
had trapped him in her cave; she wanted him
to be her husband.”
“I saw him crying, shedding floods of tears
upon Calypso’s island, in her chambers.
She traps him there; he cannot go back home.
He has no boats with oars or crew to row him
across the sea’s broad back to his own land.”
I have the second version, I started crying so much when I read it 😭
For Hephaestus, I don't think Odysseus' sacrifice of his own men was the sore spot so much as it was Ody's betrayal in general, both with Scylla and his decision before Zeus. After all, Hephaestus' own wife (Aphrodite) ran around behind his back on multiple occasions with Ares so treachery and breach of trust would likely rub him the wrong way.
Even more so since the moment Hephaestus was born he was tossed off Mount Olympus by either Hera (his own mother), or Zeus. Versions vary, but Hephaestus is repeatedly screwed over by everyone.
what also gets me about the end of love in paradise is that calypso literally says "...into my open arms" RIGHT before he started hearing Polities... it just shows that the phrase calypso said made him think of polities more, and evidently making him feel worse
this is with every character that shows up in that sequence (Polites, Eurylochus, and Odysseus's mom whose name I never remembered).
For Eurylochus, Calypso calls Odysseus "Ody" which was a nickname only Eury used up to that point. Apollo using it in God Games doesn't count.
Then, Calypso said she would stay inside his heart. This is what Ody's mom said down in the Underworld.
And obviously Open Arms for Polites
this kind of comment goes around quite often, so by the time I finish writing this you might already know, but I felt like adding it because it's relevant, have a good day/night/secret third thing
3:40
I see a lot of people reacting to the "L-l-l-l-legendary" like it's supposed to be a genuine technique, but it's really just meant to be a quick, funny moment of characterization for Telemachus. It works as a transition, but really, he's just being silly and acting like the sheltered kid he is. He's imagining himself as a hero and being a dork.
I thought it came across well, but plenty of reactors said it was out of place or that it sounded bad, which is odd because that's clearly kind of the point.
Yeah, he's a goofy dork in a lot of ways. It's supposed to sound strange because he's essentially dancing in his room singing to himself and being weird
I love how playful it makes Telemachus sound!
I did see one animatic that interpreted it as a stutter in reaction to the suitors nearby. I thought that was a cool read on it too.
What's fun (kind of funny) about the suitors in the Odyssey itself is whenever they do something particularly egregious and strain hospitality, there's always a mention of some kind of omen or portent happening suggesting that they're pissing Zeus off. At one point they hear thunder in the distance, in another an eagle carries away one of the geese in the courtyard, and every time, one of the members of the house suggests politely that they not push their luck. I think Eurycleia, Odysseus's old nurse, is the one who is the most outspoken about it. But every time someone suggests they quit being dicks, the suitors are all "Nah, it's fine, we don't believe in omens" because they're morons. And then it turns out that they REALLY should have paid more attention to the signs.
That's honestly kind of creepy, imagine you accidentally do something kinda mean(not defending the suitors, they were assholes on purpose), and then you hear thunder in the distance, or an eagle screeches at you
@@comfy-y4zI think back then it would have been really hard to "accidentally" do something mean or rude enough to piss off the Gods. The rules of hospitality would have been well-known, and I doubt a minor offense here or there that would be a legit accident would be enough to annoy any of the Gods. It would have to be something pretty severe to get one of them genuinely pissed at you.
@@WittySomethingyou could accidentally come across a bathing goddess while hunting and get turned into a stag for your mistake
@@FenDweller13 That's more a perceived slight against a deity tho, and not quite the same as rules of hospitality thing I don't think
@@WittySomething exactly what I mean though, whether it’s intentional actions such as disregarding the laws of hospitality or trying to steal a god’s wife or through accidentally means like seeing a goddess bathe or killing their favorite sacred animal it’s actually rather easy to piss of a god if you weren’t really careful
"Oh he's having a great time"
Odysseus: explicitly is described as being forced to sleep with Calypso, against his will, and crying after, for 7 years with no way to get out of here and her making fun of him trying to push her away.
Yeeeah, but you can't blame the guy for not knowing that he was forced to spend every night with Calypso (he was literally described as her "female slave" in the original text) while spending every day crying about it on the beach.
@@Goomsies What is the quote for this, if you can recall it. I may have missed it but him being refferred to as such doesn't ring any bells and its interesting
let's say chilling is the *last* thing Odysseus did on Calypso's island. Jorge did it much less explicit than the original work, but damn.
Calypso is a little Cuckoo in the head because she is as much as a prisoner on this island as Ody because her father, none other than the titan Atlas, was fighting in the titan war with Zeus. and she was punished for that as well. i don't condemn her actions, but forcing yourself on someone EVERYDAY for SEVEN YEARS can make anyone want to kill themselves.
The Calypso being a prisoner thing isn't in the original work either, that's something people conscripted from Percy Jackson.
@@TheSaharay1not quite. She was considered prisoner even before Percy Jackson, but no one knew when exactly
*condone
Although, I guess condemn could be applicable in the sense that she is already in an eternal punishment she cannot escape from and losing who she perceives as the love of her life might be enough.
@@TheSaharay1: Regardless of the original work, a teaser of the song “I’m Not Sorry For Loving You” displays Jorge makes canon in “Epic the Musical” that Calypso is indeed a prisoner on her own island. So, the above comment still is applicable, even if it is not in the original work.
@@TheSaharay1no, she was. She sided with her titan father in the war and Zeus banished her.
Odysseus 5 sagas ago: "What's a title that a goddess could lend, if I'll never sleep at night?"
Athena now: "If I could sleep at night..."
I laughed so hard at Athena's line at Hera "never once has he cheated on his wife". Such a perfect line. I also think it is kind of sweet that Ares is the one to ask if Athena is dead. Aren't they half siblings if I don't remember the mythos wrong?
They are siblings correct
Ares was the son of Zeus and Hera, while Athena was the daughter of Zeus and Metis (Zeus's first wife), though that's a little more confusing.
Some stories have Athena born from Zeus's head, no mother required, while other stories have her escape from his forehead after Zeus takes a page from his father's book and swallows Metis when he discovers she is pregnant, fearing his child would do to him what he did to his own father. Athena is born anyway and fights her way out, earning Zeus's admiration. She was his favorite child from then onward.
With Athena being one of Ares most common opponent, I like the idea of Ares holding concern for her as such a valued and respected adversary.
What's a god of war without a worthy being to fight.
Everyone talks about polites but no one ever talks about how in that same scene you hear eurylochus singing luck runs out and his mother singing her part in the underworld
And Calypso did more or less quote all of them while trying to persuade Odysseus down from the ledge
Um not so fun fact part of the reason Odysseus is so miserable at the end of love in paradise is Calypso SA’s him repeatedly during those 7 years and its literal torture for him because all he wants is to get back to his wife who in his eyes hes being unfaithful to with Calypso (even tho its is absolutely not his fault) so yeeaahhhhh also Calypso uses lines from all the dead voices he hears “ody get away from the ledge” is a reference to “ody were never gonna make it home alive you know its true” “ill stay inside your heart” is a direct quote from his mom in the underworld and of course “stay in my open arms” is referencing polite’s song… she did say he talked in his sleep so
"Wait thats where you ended it?! YOU SON OF A-"
Yeah thats how all we felt lmao
He gave us the Pámpam😢
Calypso did say that goddesses can't die so...I will cope and hope that she is alive...right? 😢
Either way sadly athena will not show up again:(
@@lebitosz9497 LET ME PRAY DAMMIT T-T
Except in the Odessa she does show up again she’s the one who gives him disguises
@@stevenhedge2850I mean Polites didn't died at Polyphemus cave in the Odyssey but here we are 🥲🥲🥲 but i do think Athena somehow still alive (coping and delusional rn) and we will see her in future saga
@@sammy0493 gods explicitly cant die in greek mythology IIRC. You can down them but you cant kill them, so no need for copium!
On the Circe comment: To be fair she did not listen to him trying to talk her out of keeping his kidnapped, transmogrified crew and eating them for dinner. He had to beat her and her summon up, then to resist her charms and to bare out his heart. Sure being kind at the end made her act kind because "This man is the biggest simp ever, there's no way he'll be a monster to me and mine", but he had to get there with violence, something that he wouldn't have done if he was just plain good.
I mean he went straight for "your magic won't work on me haha," he might have reached the same eventual result by being humble from the beginning
@@draeonic Tbf she did react to "you turned my men into pigs" by showing off her magic and threatening him with all the ways she could hurt him and beat him. Maybe he could tty and sweet talk from there but it was a direct escalation and he answered with his own by saying "you can't affect me, what now?"
@@laurasibob1106 oh she absolutely went for the conflict first. And I'm not even saying his approach was wrong, only that we don't know that the violence and awkward sexual situation were really prerequisites to the good ending. All we do know is that it's the vulnerability and openness that clinched it.
@@draeonicI'm not sure going "I'm completely vulnerable and defenseless to you" would have gotten the reaction you're hoping for.
@@BeyondTrash-xe1vs that's probably not how I would have put it either, but the man is supposed to be skilled with words :')
Calyspo on the cliff scene probably triggered Odysseus’s whole panic attack(?)
- She says ‘Ody’ (I think only Eurylochus has used this nickname)
- “I’ll stay inside your heart” is the same thing his dead mother sang
“Come back in my OPEN ARMS”
She probably heard this when we talked in his sleep
28:14 In the original Odyssey he’s also trapped, he enjoys it for a little while but after that it literally says ‘His eyes were always tearful; he wept sweet life away, in longing to go home, since she no longer pleased him. He had no choice. He spent his nights with her inside her hollow cave , not wanting her though she still wanted him. By day he sat out on the rocky beach, in tears and grief, staring in heatbreak at the fruitless sea’
Ironically Athena being the god of wisdom and so the only one who's self aware enough to feel regret which also makes her a master manipulator who also understands everyone else kinda makes sense.
"the "L-L-Lengendary" Has a term its called Telemachus being a dork :3
Dork is probably Telemachus's middle name 😂 i love him😂
Fun fact! Gigi made a post saying that she was taking a break and that the next animatic we saw would probably be for wisdom saga, then we watch the live stream and see love in paradise. Tricky animator
I think the line “ I could sleep at night” is a callback to the line “what’s a title, that a goddess could lend? If i’ll never *sleep at night* ” from “My Goodbye”
“Did Athena just die?”
“You know. It was really unclear.”
Was that an ATLA reference????
@@OliveBaxter-zf4dv Yep 😅😂
Suitor throws bowl at the Son of the very Woman he is trying to impress.
Penelope: "You are disqualifyd. Find another "tramp" to marry."
Athena is conciderd to be Zeus favorite, but he still went full Apeshif on her. Shows how petty and childish he is.
Wasn’t there even a whole scene in the Iliad where he beat the shit out of his wife Hera in front of other gods to make an example? He’s the worst.
@@SantosoWijayaI kind of wonder if when she says “I've no respect for bullies / Those who impose their will / I've seen plenty enough / To truly understand this kind of filth” that she might even be thinking of Zeus as an example
@@liminalpsych I need a Fanfic or something written about Zeus being petty and childish as well as the abuse and trauma the gods probably have (basically humanizing of the gods lol if that's possible).
You make a lot of assumptions. The version of the Odyssey you must have read had to have been one interesting translation. Odysseus isn't going to kill Telemachus. The suitors are Ithica citizens, which means the laws of hospitality don't apply. Athena feels guilty about how things between her and Ody ended, so after the song with Telemachus she goes to find him. Time dives his memories and finds him when he calls her name on Ogygia. She goes to Zeus because Zeus is the one that put him on Calypso's island. In what telling is he on Ogygia by choice? No he's trapped there for 7 years being 🍇ed by Calypso until Hermes shows up to demand she release him. Any Sex Odysseus had with Calypso or Circe was none consensual on his part. They don't care that he's married or said no. Athena' red blood has actually been addressed by the animator that did it. It symbolizes Athena basically learning to be human and understand human loss and emotions. Ares being the one to ask if Athena is dead actually shows that despite their differences he still cared for his sister. Athena is not dead. Jorge hinted at that earlier in the saga when Calypso says Goddesses can't die.
‘The Warrior of the Mind’ theme switching to ‘Legendary’ during ‘We’ll Be Fine’, and, finally, at the memory when she first held Telemachus is so cute and so heartbreaking. She remembered the family, the man she raised from childhood to be a warrior, and his son who became her friend. She fought for them to right the wrongs she had committed, even if it cost everything.
My heart, man
Also yeah uh- in the original he wasn't exactly chilling there, more like stuck and being taken advantage of since the entire time was him spending everyday crying for his wife
And getting literally raped
I love that your interpretation of events is so completely different from mine 😂. Considering that the Odyssey opens with Athena asking Zeus to have mercy on Odysseus because of everything he's suffered, and she approaches Telemaches to begin bringing him home at last. Also, Calypso fell in love with Odysseus and did in fact keep him on her island against his will - the gods had to command her to release him.
On the topic of why all the gods athena had to convince all kinda just fell over, its probably just cause they really dont care. They have no reason to care, only Aphrodite and Ares had any real ground to argue which is why they nearly said no.
The Wisdom Saga is based off of video games. Apollo and Hephaestus were level 1 and 2, this making them the easiest ones. Aphrodite and Ares were level 3 and 4, making them a bit harder to convince. Hera's level 5 and Zeus is the final level.
It gets me so bad when it was so easy with "He never once cheated on his wife" and she's like "...Release him." LOL Also hearing Polites always makes me wanna cry uuuugh
Bold of you to asume that one Siren killing spree equals a full genoside of the species xD
Logic left aside, Apollo even says "so many Sirens gone" not "all Sirens gone"
Eh, in the Odyssey he did NOT just chill with Calypso, at least the version I read. It said he spent every day sobbing on the rocks staring off into the sea and his nights trapped with her in the cave pretty uh ...unwillingly. But the sheer inability to get out of there is part of the issue. And honestly, God Games is just that, rounds or levels of a game - Zeus is toying with Athena, thinking it will stall or stop her and geting infuriated when she outwits him.
"What? 😀" when athena showed up in little wolf is exactly how i wished youd react LMAO
The animations in the live are accually requested and commisuoned by Jorge himself for the live specifically
Love the analysis. Though, I think the you over-analyzed the choice of gods,.
This is just a game to Zeus. My impression is that he's just picking powerful deities within the pantheon because he can. If it was about convincing those Odysseus has wronged, no way Poseidon wouldn't be there.
Could also be why some of them (mainly Apollo and Hephaestus) don't take much convincing. They're not as invested. Normally, Hera would probably take more convincing, but Athena set her up with one hell of an argument that she couldn't overlook.
Remember Calypso said Odysseus talks in his sleep. Her calling him Ody and saying how sad shed be if he died is a reference to the last person who did that Eurolychs(in luck runs out and mutiny), the line ill stay inside your heart was what his mother said in the underworld and stay in my open arms is clearly Polites thats why he hears their refrains explicitly. She was driving that man crazy
So, one thing that everyone seem to forget. or at least all animators I´ve checked, is that cannonically, the lestrygonians are helping smash Odysseus' crew during ruthlessness. Since the original release party live, and all following lives where ruthlessness is featured, the lestrygonians are there, smashing giant bolders into the boats. But they're normally not animated since people tend to focus on poseidon's destruction/rage
where the harpies tho?
@@VillainVac In some interpretations, sirens aren't fish folk but something like birds with human heads hiding inside mist 🤷♂
I mean, Athena definitely told Odysseus he wasn't her friend, during their final goodbye.
She realized what he was to her and where she had gone wrong only afterwards, which causes her to treat Telemachus differently and to refer to Ody as her friend.
And, comparatively, Odysseus went the opposite way, becoming what Athena wanted him to. He became a ruthless monster, who works with his brain and makes tough decisions.
So, instead of meeting halfway through, they almost swapped place
In The Odyssey Odysseus was explicitly kept on Calypso's island out of his control and cried on the beach everyday to go home
ALSO!! THE REASON WHY THE GODS APOLLO, HEPHASTUS, APHRODITE, ARES AND HERA WERE THERE WAS BECAUSE THOSE ARE ALL THE GODS THAT SIDED WITH THE TROJANS
WHILE ATHENA WAS THE ONE THAT SIDED WITH THE ACHAENS (the side Odysseus was on)
Zeus chose those Gods since the team they were rooting for (the Trojans,) lost. He did this cause he expect tension between them and Athena
"Love In Paradise" is structured, narratively, from the perspective of Athena. With "Little Wolf" and "We'll Be Fine" happening before or not long after Ody reaches Calypso, though the timeline is a bit iffy.
She's standing atop an hourglass in the "god realm" for lack of a better name, viewing the last 10 years of Odysseus' life. When we see Ody on the cliff edge and calling out to Athena, the timing of it arguable but Ody's journey is only 20 years so, she caught him calling gor help fairly quick.
Odysseus did NOT float in the ocean for 7 years..
21:30 I don’t think those were water monsters, I think those were the Laestagorians.
You're right but it's not a crazy assumption to make. Not nearly as egregious as all those reactors who thought the first song was still Odysseus singing. 😑
“Never once has he cheated on his wife”
Hera just glaring at Zeus
The only thing that's keeping me sane is, "last I checked Goddesses can't die."
so Real. same tho
32:04 Zeus is basically saying “The gods do not like him and you want to correct that.”
Actually, in the Odyssey, Odysseus is kept on Calipso's island against his will. Circe's island is the one where he and his men rested for a year before deciding to live (they REALLY needed a vacation).
Bendon Mcinnis who sings the voice of Apollo voices one of the voices in the English translation of Demon Slayer
13:48 not actually all that big of a change. In the original there was a fight between Telemachus and Antinous at roughly this point in the book (well probably more like year 17 of Odysseus being away) which was the catalyst for Telemachus leaving to try and find his dad by asking the other returnees from Troy, partially out of fear the suitors would kill him (which they actually plan to do on his return in the original, although they end up too sloshed to do so along with Telemachus coming later than expected and docking in a different place thanks to Athena).
Apart from that they weren't just rude, they explicitly r*ped several of household maids and other female slaves, slaughtered the majority of the household flocks (which were the source of wealth/livelihood of the household) to fuel their constant partying, as well as emptying the pantry and wine-cellar, and killed at least two of the male household slaves/retainers that were faithful to Odysseus and Penelope.
My interpretation for Apollo was that Odysseus set an example for other sirens that witnessed it, making them more cautious when going to hunt sailors (seeing if any are armed, trying to hide away empty ships, ect.)
I don't know if you know this, but the person who did little wolf is actually making a game based on Epic...so that part is mostly in the game
Great reaction! I enjoyed this thoroughly esp dropping Greek and Roman mythology nuggets here and there. Thanks as well for pausing to check out the monsters in the audience! That quick scene took a while. If you look again though, it's actually almost all the monsters Telemachus mentions in Legendary (water and bird siren types sitting next to each other). Cerberus is there but got cropped out due to lack of space.
The end of Love in Paradise gets me literally every time.
One of my favorite Jorge moments was him posting in chat at the start of basically every song with, "OMG I love this song!!" in various forms.
Fun fact: liam Davidson ( the one who made the little wolf street fighter game vid ) is actually making an epic the musical video game with the epic crew! Its really cool how their doing this and i ACTUALLY cannot wait!
"In the Odyssey he just chilled" Uh. Um. What part of this sounds like 'just chilling'?
_In the nights, true, / he’d sleep with her in the arching cave - he had no choice - / unwilling lover alongside lover all too willing_
and Odysseus spending his days _sat on a headland, weeping there as always, / wrenching his heart with sobs and groans and anguish, / gazing out over the barren sea through blinding tears_
I'd even argue that by being vague on whether Calypso actually got what she wanted and sang about concerning them climbing to bed together Epic is making her LESS of a clear antagonist/villain
My personal lil headcanon is Apollo and Hephaestus wanted very little to do with Zeus’s game so they intentionally let Athena win as fast as possible.
Let's not forget that Apollo is also the god of _prophecy_ so he would know how everything ends. He doesn't put in any effort because he knows he doesn't need to.
To me Apollo’s section implies there are more groups of sirens in the sea instead of just on one island, which makes sense because if they were confined to one place, Odysseus wouldn’t be surprised to detect signs of sirens in siren territory
Usually in media when a character(s) dies it’s sad for a second and then never brought up again. So to have Odysseus go through actual PTSD really made me feel understood because I also lost someone really close to me. So seeing someone finally interpret how I felt was so sad and just kinda refreshing.
(The fact that I was balling my eyes out remembering those times I was grieving was not refreshing I mean the fact that the feelings I couldn’t explain were being shown was refreshing)
Love your reactions and analysis. It’s always nice to watch someone who has knowledge on the original because that's the same way I've been experiencing the musical.
Nah, there is no knowledge here
@@Not-Kledthat's kind of mean but it's true
Man is not prepared for future lyrics that make HELLFIRE, the greatest villain song ever written - to feel TAME
Next saga? Song 4? Or which song are you… Wait, a second is this the last saga song two? Yeah, definitely makes Hellfire feel more tame.
The “L-L-Legendary” line by Telemachus is more a byproduct of his youth, like a teen/young adult being a bit silly when singing.
>starts the video with what we’re literally all thinking
He definitely didnt chill on calypsos island in the odyssey. Like not at all. Here are some snippets from the Odyssey while he was on calypsos island: “In the nights, true, / he’d sleep with her in the arching cave - he had no choice - / unwilling lover alongside lover all too willing”
"Calypso is singing with her “breathtaking voice” and weaving at her loom while Odysseus “sat on a headland, weeping there as always, / wrenching his heart with sobs and groans and anguish, / gazing out over the barren sea through blinding tears”
The "water monsters" on the rocks were the Laestrygonians, the giants who gave the Land of the Giants its name. In the Odyssey, it was them who killed Ody's men by hurling rocks and breaking apart their ships.
Ody didn't 'just chill' in the Odyssey. Explicitly said is that he wept every day on the beach and was forced into her bed every night against his will.
I think in EPIC, there are more than just one group of sirens in the ocean, so the group of sirens Odysseus met were killed, but all the other groups of sirens would survive
In the Odyssey the suitors also openly threatened Telemachus’ life, too. Even in front of Penelope.
His reaction to the ending was basically mine, minus the swearing. I was so sad, especially because Athena is my favorite character in Epic The Musical, and one of my favorite goddesses.
both Zeus and Athena have wielded the gorgon shield
At 28:16 had me raising my brows lol. He was not chill at all like literally first appearance in the odyssey he’s crying all the time, begging to be sent home. That poor man.
I absolutely love Jorge’s face in these freeze frames🤣🤣
if it makes you feel any better(spoiler), im pretty sure she lives since i remember reading one of the stage directions for when odysseus will be killing the suitors, and it said 2athena warns telemachus of a suitor behind him" meaning that she will live but Jorge it might change it.
His energy and enthusiasm as he explains and elaborates the wisdom saga is amazing this is one pf the few times my recommend feed actually recommend me something good.
The royal family of Ithaca needs a therapist. Penelope's locked herself away, Telemachus's best day of his life was getting in a fight and not dying, and Odysseus... is Odysseus. 😂
To any Percy Jackson fan with any Talent for video editing: Make an edit of kid Percy with Legendary
YES YES YES I am trash at art but that sounds so good
Deep cut but all the Gods mentioned in God Games all played a part in the Trojan War.
Athena, Hera, and Aphrodite started the war by making Hector the Judge for a beauty contest. Aphrodite won and she gave him Helen
Ares, Posiden & Zeus were on the side of the Trojans with Apollo and Hephaestus being neutral aiding whoever.
Kinda makes sense why those gods they gotta convince
@@AmericanBrit9834Yea, Apollo was responsible for the death of Achilles. Definitely with Troy.
@@AmericanBrit9834yep, pretty sure he helped Paris land the shot that killed Achilles, but that might be from something else.
@@jaylensmith9826 Apollo definitely wasn’t neutral one of the main things about him was him directing paris aim to shoot Achilles
Athena: wins game fair and square
Zues: the AUDACITY
Thats the thing with Calypso, the only people who end up on her isle are people that cant or dont want to stay.
Just Athena falling to Zeus' lightning, and he actually stops when she reaches out pleading to let Odysseus go. That hit me in the feels. Also, when Athena rallies, you hear the melody from the song "Warrior of the Mind" ie Odysseus' and Athena's friendship song. That shows that she used her memory of her friend to stand up against her dad, aka Zeus King of the Gods. That shook the bastard. Of course, the rest of the gods cannot go against Zeus or even stop his rampage. Cause he is King. What he says goes. There is no stopping him. So the fact that Athena was willing to go against him at all is remarkable. But even more than that, she's doing it for a mortal friend of hers. I agree it is awful that it stopped there.
23:32 I assume the "water monsters" are the Laestrygonians, since the wind bag brought them to "the land of the giants", which would be Lamos, the home of the Laestrygonians.
20:37 this is called homophrosyne "like-mindedness", and The Odyssey is typically one of the first results, towards Odysseus and Penelope, when searching the term. So, yes, you are correct in this assumption
Just gonna add to the pain for Love in Paradise:
Calypso references that Ody talks in his sleep and then when he's on the ledge she uses the words of his loved ones
Calypso: I'll STAY INSIDE YOUR HEART(Ody's mom)
Calypso: stay in my OPEN ARMS (Polites)
Also Calypso saying open arms started ody hearing their voices
Two months of wait for the next saga, I wish you patience and best of luck!