we have that on a programme called Question Time. I've noticed when the same audience member claps for both comments even though they're totally opposing sides. No wonder most people don't know what these politicians are up to. As for Affleck, well I'm DEFINATELY on the "liberals suck" side, especially actors. They don't have proper jobs and live priveliged lives, so they have zero idea what's really going on. Islam is evil IMO, just look at halal slaughter. And yes, I am vegetarian because I've seen how animals die, halal slaughter or not and it's horrifying. I wouldn't want it done to me so why should I inflict it on defenceless animals ?
you know theres more theres more than one person in the audience right? 50 people might believe one side and another 50, the other. you will hear the same amount of clapping for each side. dumbasses
And so did this host say that he isn't in favor of all religions and he says their ideas are wrong he didn't say people of all religions are wrong in ideas
+Juan Antonio Ríos Which further implies its followers are also because its Moslems who follow the so called "mother of bad ideas Islam"(according to Sam). As Cenk said that Islam doesn't allow to make any statues or the idols of Allah or Mohammed or any other religious celebrities, Islam is emphasizing to believe in an unseen entity which refers that Islam is much more of a spiritual religion. After all, there are Sufis who cut off themselves from the rest of the world to live in euphoria of true love. I suggest Sam and Bill to read the poetry of Rumi, Bullah, Waris Shah and explore what kind of mother with bad ideas Islam is.
I think it is very important to distinguish between criticising a race and criticising a religion though. Criticising a race is nonsensical and unethical, because a person's race does not directly determine their beliefs and actions. Whereas people have to be able to criticise ideologies that they do not agree with.
you do realize only americans still talk about "race" - you should take it out of the voabulary in hte first place, racism is the belief that they are race amongst humans, and that one is better than others. Scientist already proved the human specie has no race, whatsoever. So what you wanna say is, yes criticising a culture and a religion is sane but has to be distiguished anyway because its not the same, specially when you put it that way . They are many sociological things that interlace together in any issue.
May be our community brothers Muslims are wrong about their tradition and culture but we can't say that they are wrong and we can correct them that's the right thing. I am an Indian. In India here there is so many religions are there including Hindus and Muslims as majority. Think about a situation what happen when these communities started to blame each other for their religious practices, there will be war. I think Ben Affleck was right because he doesn't want his Muslim brothers to harassed. He did the right thing.
did anyone else unsubscribe from TYT years ago when you got out of your teen years and realized that these people are not the intellectual and unbiased people you actually thought they were?
Yea they're basically the liberal version of Fox News and I consider myself liberal, just can't take their BS and this whole regressive left movement it's infuriating to anyone with a brain. It's become like a game of tag when you're a child and there was home base where as long as you were there you were safe and couldn't be touched. Certain topics have become that way to these people like Islam, gender issues, certain racial issues, all things I support tolerance and equality with, but it's like these topics are "home base" and if you're touching them no one can argue you
Sweet. Im 17, never subbed to them, and have considered them exactly that, liberal fox news. Score one for me? Brownie points for being ahead of the curve?
Ryan Moore he absolutely does misrepresent his points, clearly in the clip he speaks about people conflating the two yet cent consistently makes false equivalencies as well as skewing data from cherry picked information. This show is so inconsistent it has become trash
" 'Muslim extremism' is not extreme among Muslims. Mainstream Islam itself represents an extremist rejection of intellectual honesty, gender equality, secular politics and genuine pluralism. The truth about Islam is as politically incorrect as it is terrifying: Islam is all fringe and no center. " __ Sam harris Oh, he's so misunderstood guys. He's not a bigot. Stop with the lies, just prefacing your bigoted/racist remakes with saying "I'm not racist, but.." does not exempt you form being seen as one for really obvious reasons.
0mer no he’s not misunderstood merely misrepresented by afleck who attempts to conflate two separate criticisms of Islam as an ideology. Islam is not equal to muslims, however while you call him a bigot do you deny the truth within his statements. Does Islam not contradict gender equity and lead to oppression of women? Seems to me the facts show that women are almost always oppressed or abused within Muslim nations, what about religious freedom when many belief apostates should be killed or punished? Let’s be real Islam as a religion or ideology does have extremist tendencies that continue to pervade the governments who institute its laws, I guess it’s just a coincidence Saudi Arabia has barely begun to allow women to drive themselves.
"The crucial point of confusion is that we have been sold this meme of islamophobia, where every criticism of the doctrine of Islam gets conflated with bigotry towards Muslims as people." And then Ben proceeds to spend the rest of the segment proving Sam right.
except the definition of islamophobia is the hatred of muslims not the criticism of the religious dogma. if you're already confused about this simple definition then we can't trust you to give a relevant opinion, can we ?
Bob Please don't refer to an entire religion of human beings as "vermin," it only exposes your racism. LGBT (which exactly?!) or not, anyone can be a bigot, and your revealing yourself as one is a bad look to say the least.
You're the type to cry and moan Anti Semitism if someone critizices the israelis for their apartheid. But if someone says "we should have a war against Muslims purely because of their religion", then you'll call it freedom of speech. Islamaphobia is a problem because there are more idiot rednecks like you and your family than actual educated people who don't support the Islamaphobic hate the West makes a business out of. Keep crying snowflake. You're upset because the Islamic Countries control your economy. Keep begging them for more oil.
You cut out a vital part of that video where Sam Harris makes it clear that he doesn`t mean ALL muslims. Your whole video is based on bad editing from your own part. What Sam Harris means isn`t that ALL muslims are bad, but that islam as a religion is more dangerous than other religions. You know that and that makes this video even more embarassing from your part.
+Bjørnar Iversen Dangerous in which way? Because it hasn't evolved to fit with modern western life? Should we say, Islam still the only religion that hasn't lost it's cause or roots? I mean Judaism in the time of Moses is not the Judaism of today. Same goes to Christianity.
+Hector Gonzalez The differences are first of all that chrisitanity do have a new testament and several reforms of christianity that has "modernized" the religion. Islam has a problem and that is that it`s still a medival violent religion.
I think that todays' problem is that people try to mock islam while they don't know shit about. If you hear bad things about islam doesn't mean that you're now officially a expert on islam
Smithpolly as example your comment, I've seen this thousand upon thousand of times on youtube, people like you who cherrypick texts out of the quran without any kind of research or education about the belief system
+MKCD 20 Check out Eric Allen Bell. He clearly explains how / why the supposedly liberal SJW mind follows a default rationale. That is to say white male privilege is the problem. all the worlds problems can be traced back to that demographic. That is why Left wing groups champion alternative cultures, why the SWP in UK march alongside Islamist groups chanting and bearing banners " "WE ARE ALL HEZZBOLLAH NOW !" Hollywood Establishment have blacklisted ERIC for exposing the real truth as opposed to the Holywood Michael Moore "truth".
you do realize that your statistic which was supposed to clearly debunk the whole "20% of muslims have somewhat radical views" thing adds up to almost exactly 20% of muslims supporting death penalty for leaving islam?
1) Look at chart 2) Estimate the actual % of muslims per country that are in favor of death penalty for apostasy because there are no vertical lines in the picture except for the multiples of 10%, when in doubt, estimate lower than it actually is to not have a too high outcome (basically benefit of the doubt) 3) Go to Wikipedia, look up the countries that were mentioned in the graph 4) Look up the population numbers for each respective country aswell as % count of people in the respective country who are of islamic faith. multiply the population count by "% muslims" and you have the absolute number of muslims for the respective countries. Sum all these up together. You'll need it later. 5) Sum up the number of muslims in each country multiplied with the % number of muslims per country that (morally) support death penalty for apostasy. You now have the absolute number of muslims supporting the death penalty for apostasy in all countries combined (at least those which you chose to include into your calculation) 6) Interpret your results. I used a normal calculator to quickly do this. Based off of the chart presented in the video i started on the right side of the chart with Afghanistan, including every country on the left side of it up until indonesia after which i stopped because the numbers were getting pretty low and it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the calculation much. before anyone tries to get at me for this, this only even lowers the estimated number. The actual number is (based off this chart) in fact higher than what this calculation would give you as a result. As far as i remember, this calculation included some number around 700-750 million muslims (this number comes from step 4 and the result was that out of these 750+- million people, around 280-300million were morally supporting the death penalty for apostasy. Once again, more math stuff: 6a) Divide 280million/750million (this produces the lowest % outcome of the numbers i just gave you), that gives you roughly 37.3% of muslims supporting the death penalty for leaving islam out of those included in the earlier calculations 6b) Divide 280million/1.5 billion, that gives you roughly 18.7% of muslims supporting the death penalty for leaving islam out of ALL muslims worldwide. Note: that's assuming that out of the remaining 750million muslims not included in the earlier calculations, noone does support death penalty for leaving Islam. I'm aware that all these numbers aren't exactly true because wikipedia sometimes has outdated data on country populations etc. (most numbers are from 2012-2015 +-) and it's also not clear from the video how many people have actually been included in the survey to even create the chart. I also realize that data is often times manipulated, but in that case, why bother including it at all? Even if the whole math stuff isn't for you, take away the following things from this: 1. If anything, unlike the host pretends in the video, the shown image does not debunk Sam Harris' "20% number" but rather, depending on how you choose to interpret the data, either confirms it pretty accurately, or even almost doubles this number. 2. When you try to use statistical charts to make a point, sit down for 5 minutes and crunch the numbers before you embarrass yourself like the presenter of this video did. This is 6th grade math.
+Jerry Perkins - That right there--calling truth about what happens when Islam is practiced properly as "propaganda and lies"--is in itself propaganda and lies. It's the GO TO tactic when someone notices a truth about Islam, it's called "a lie!" even when it's true. But it causes timid PC people to back down.
just tell me why your churches are empty and for sale,tell me why your families are desingreating,it touches the collapse of faith and creates social dysfinction.You don't read your own Bible ;do you know that the legalized polygamy in Islam is inferior to the unlimited clandestine adultery in the WEST;
☘️ *Cenk is deliberately lying & twisting what Marr said* .He said "Ben, your saying that Over a billion (Muslim) people & *all* of these billion people *don't* hold these pernicious views? That's just not true, Ben, that's just not true." Meaning Marr was rejecting BA's claim that out of a billion Muslims, *none* of them held these bigoted views. Just to be clear, Marr was saying that BA's claim "that all 1billion Muslims don't hold these (bigoted) views" was wrong. Cenk is a total liar.
@@maartenjanez1489 Iran kills muslims in Yemen,Iraq and Syria EVERYDAY. Suudis does the same in Yemen too plus when iran fight against Suudis they ban their people to visit macce which is every muslims (if he able to) must do that. There are corrupt dictators called "Musrik"s. People who claim to be Muslim but there are not also gives bad reputation to our religion. Quran is about person and one God other stuff is man made
@@selimfurkandalgic9548 and just like the followers of any religion, they all believe different things. You ask 100 Muslims about their beliefs, you'll get a 100 different answers.
you need to go to the middle east...ben have been here several times maybe if u come here for a couple of days you will change your god damned bigot views
The Qur'an says that "there is no compulsion in religion," so anyone claiming that Allah orders other Muslims to kill the leaver is out of line. We are not allowed to punish people who decide that Islam isn't for them, and Muslim theocratic governments who make laws that have such punishments within them are not doing so from an Islamic position at all. Its really important to understand that these people who are in favour of these things don't even seem to understand their own beliefs.
. The freedom of belief in Islam, under Islamic law, means the freedom of Muslims to exercise their faith and the freedom of all to accept Islam. The Islamic legal system has no negative religious freedom for Muslims and does not recognize the claim to be a member of any religion. Accordingly, Muslims do not have the right to convert to another religion or live without religion. ~Wikipedia
@@MAS99341 Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, and then undone immediately, and block the IP of the person who did so falsely, lock them if targeted, and sources required. There literally isn't a better more reliable way of having up to date source based information. Wikipedia being unreliable is a meme, and your response is as scripted as it gets for an NPC. Prove me wrong.
Yes, because as history has shown, dropping out of college means you are a less intelligent person. Well, when you eliminate Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Oprah Winfrey, F. Scott Fitzgerald, John Lennon, and Walt Disney...too just name a few
+JohnWaterhouse Go on, name some more? Oh they are only a tiny proportion of successful people? Weird... Maybe you should have taken a statistics course hahaha
+Oli Archy So your response to my statement that a college education is not necessary to being an intellectual human, is that I did not name enough people? You say I should study statistics? Hmm... very intelligent response
"'Islam is not a race.' Don't nitpick stupid stuff like that." Bullshit! Islam is *not* a race, nor it is a country, it's an ideology and this was clearly stated by Mr Harris, "Islam is the motherload of _bad ideas_." At which point Mr Affleck plays the race card with gusto and enthusiasm. The more examples I see of your "liberalism" the better I feel about having unsubscribed.
Ruben de Groot Religion is ideology by definition. Not sure what motivation you had to call him a fucktard, but it does prove my suspicion that readiness to insult correlates with stupidity.
seblasian In the conceptual sense, all religion is an ideology. But us people make a distinction between ideologies and religions most of the time. Why I called him a fucktard, is because all anti-islamist like to call islam an ideology, but dont apply that to judaism, christianity or other religions,
Ruben de Groot Still don't see a reason for the insult, especially if you weren't actually correcting him. But what you point out is food for thought; why do you make that distinction, and why do some insist on applying it to Islam and not other religions?
Think outside the box for a minute. Although Islamophobia is by definition not a form of racism, it definitely can be, when people associate an appearance with their own personal hatred for Muslims. For instance, I’m an atheist but because of the way I look I’ve been verbally assaulted many times with anti-Muslim slurs.
Dude, you call out the 20% number as being unsupported, claiming that Sam Harris doesn't have any polls to support what he said, but you stopped the clip right before the part where Sam Harris provides one of the polls that supports that number. What are you doing? You're supposed to be an intelligent thinker.
And Sam clearly said "arguably 20%" he didnt just throw the number out as factual.... He doesnt have to name a poll to support what he said because he let them know with one word that the #20% is only a matter of opinion, that one word being "arguably". He should have answered the question about what poll is that from..... like this Poll? fuckin my Poll i guess. I dont owe you an explanation of where it came from you jack off....I clearly said ITS ARGUABLE, DEBATABLE, MATTER OF OPINION, as I made the statement...
Ok but didn't Cenk literally give some data himself? What are you doing, aren't you supposed to be rational and have some critical thinking skills for that level of arrogance?
+Sophovot Except you have to take into account the countries in that poll have wildly different amounts of Muslims living in them. For example, the biggest Muslim population in terms of absolute numbers is the Indonesian one, and they were somewhere in the bottom half of the list. Afghanistan, which was at the top, has decidedly less Muslims living in it.
+Ahsim Nreiziev But even in Indonesia 71 per cent support Sharia. 71 per cent. Do you get how many millions of people that is, in just one country. And Indonesia is supposed to be the poster child for moderation ( and don't forget the fact that 95 per cent of all muslim girls have fgm in Indonesia too)
+Owen Gavin i think hes concerned about clever people like Sam Harris saying clever correct things about reformations secularism which stupid people hear as a scientific reason to hate muslims
Mazlum Yalcinkaya It does.. Read the Quran & the Hadith.. Punishment for apostasy is death in Islam. You have been living under a rock... Read your scriptures before making a fool of yourself.
"islam is the motherload of bad ideas" this statement from sam doesn't in any way shape or form address any sort of people, it's a statement about ideas. if one says that christianity is stupid and dumb, then one is talking about the religion itself and not the people that are exercising it.
***** i actually just wanted to clear things up. cenk also made the mistake of conflating islam as a religion with ("all") muslims when addressing sams quote "the motherload of bad ideas". the point is that islam, as a religion, is dangerous. the people who subscribe to it may or may not be. i don't think this short video is an accurate reflection of sam's position. he debated islam over and over again and actually never made statements like the one maher made.
***** if that religion is so "perfect" cherrypicking shouldnt be a problem. And there is no athiest agenda, just a bunch of people that are fed up with idiotic ideas ruling.
***** there is no misunderstanding amongst atheists. people just hear what they wanna hear. what someone says:" islam is dangerous and dumb" what someone else hears:" all muslims are dangerous and dumb" you're right at one point. people often talk about things they don't understand. that's the case almost everywhere and regarding anything. but here we have a comedian who is known for hyperbolism and a famous critic of religion, who debated hundreds of times on this topic and never said anything like this. also on a sidenote: to me, it doesn't really matter if all muslims practice their religion to the full extent (meaning jihad, blowing up busses and shit), or if 20% of all muslims or if only a single one does that. the amount of people who practice this sort of behaviour should be zero.
If you watch the whole video Bill Maher was asking Ben Affleck "A billion people you say, all these billion people (Muslims) does not hold those pernicious beliefs?" then Ben Affleck corrected him saying 1.5 billion. He was in a sense saying all those Muslim hold pernicious beliefs. Then Ben Affleck responded him that he does not believes that all of them hold those beliefs only a minority then Bill Maher responded that is not true.
@@silvermane5695 No, you're doing the exact same thing Ben interpreted wrong. Bill is basically asking if not a single one of those billion people hold a single one of those beliefs, not if that billion as a whole has those beliefs.
@@Parragon77 Watch the whole video, he said it "All these billion people (Muslims) does not hold those pernicious beliefs?" you say...then Sam Harris pedalled back and said "I'm not saying all Muslims said that.." come on dude, really? LOL
@@silvermane5695 Nowhere in that quote does it say all those people hold those beliefs. It's literally just a question asking if every single one of them abstains from those beliefs.
liam hunt All you need to do is go on and look at the monthly terror attack list for 2015 and calculate it yourself. Remember I said terror attacks that resulted in casualties.
Sauske Dk For the second time Chenk is lying Bill Maher did not say all Muslims. at 7:10 Affleck says "all billion point 5 Muslims don't hold any of those pernicious beliefs" Maher says" That's just not true" Chenk says, " That's the biggest problem right there Bill Maher saying no, over a billion Muslims, not a small minority, not even a significant minority. He might not have said literally but he meant all billion and a half Muslims hold those radical views." This is nonsense Maher said no such thing. He said that Affleck was wrong to say none of them hold those views, which is a lie, and Mayer was just pointing it out. So Affleck is lying. So is Chenk
Affleck didn't say none of them do...... He siad not all of them do. Are your ears broken? I don't think Maher meant that they all did either. I think it was a case of the phrasing being poor and they both misunderstood what they other was trying to say. Evidently you did too. Is anybody on YT able to use their brains....
This is so smart from Affleck. By strongly rejecting any rights non-Muslims have to criticise Islam and making nice with all parts of the religion he ensures that the Islamists will never seek to harm him. In essence he has provided himself with an anti-terrorism shield rendering him immune to all explosions and attacks. After all, this is what happens when you appease bullies and not you know; the bully gets encouraged by your willing, cravenness.
Tr33fiddy srs watch zeitgeist. its what the government wants you to think, they make sure the focus of the problem goes to islam. because they are trying to hide that they are corrupt
Necro-posting here, but... Bill Maher was only disagreeing with Afleck's assertion that it was only a few people who believed bad ideas. Cenk seriously distorted what Bill actually said here.
@@nathanielnolt3518 war declared on a ruse of a country hoarding nuclear weapons and clones which will be used for pernicious purposes ( while being the only country to actually use nuclear weapons in war). This is not to say what going on in others is right. But us acts are still is more reprehensible just because of the sheer number of lives
If Sam Harris is right, that Islam is the 'motherload' of bad ideas, then Ben must represent our pc society, that refuses to stop a truly bad idea, even when it kamakazies into NYC's Two Towers. John 3:16
***** His facts aren't correct actually. He said that 90 percent of muslims in Egypt believe in the idea of death if you leave islam. As Cenk showed, that is false, its lower than 50 percent. Now is that a significant number, yes, but it shows that there isn't a majority support behind it. But hey, If Bill Maher is credible to you, go for it. But, I take facts via actual polls over the ones made up by comedians like Bill. :)
MLGMagnesium Wow, that makes me feel much better that it's less than 50%. I love how low our standards are that we think it ok when less than 50% of a population wants to murder us! "Yea, they aren't all bad, less than 50% of them want to murder us" - Regressive left idiots of 2016.
I served in the Gulf War and Iraq, but I didn't find any of what people were talking about. They were ordinary people with semi-free thinking, and it wasn't the hostility that people were talking about
@Uditya Tyagi Yes every sentimental would do so . I support you . I am personally a secular religious. Even in INDIA we saw people were killed because of accusation of carrying Cow meat. LOL
@Uditya Tyagi just please stop hating other religions please bro. I’m sickened with it. You don’t eat meat we don’t eat pork. You worship cow while we worship Muhammad as our prophet. Respect ✌🏻
+ahmed chaibi no its because we weren't invading their societies and murdering innocent people 30 years ago. All of this crap started with PNAC about 20 years ago. This chaos in the ME was all planned mainly by rabid pro Israel Zionists in the US government. The plan was to take down 7 Islamic nations in 5 years. And for whose benefit ? Who else but Israel.
I would check out the reaction to "Life of Brian." released in 1979 when the UK was a lot less liberal. What was the Christian reaction? Bearing in mind this was a full length feature film depicting someone getting mistaken for jesus with jesus appearing in the film intermittently? With Brian getting laid at one point? Getting crucified at the end of the film by mistake? Christians made PEACEFUL protest and to my knowledge not one life was lost. Compare this to the baying blood thirsty mobs who killed over a hundred people as a response to the Danish cartoons.
Agreed. When people make a generalized (notice "general" in that word means usually or most) statement, they mean to talk about a group in general. NOT ALL. Which is why I find it funny when people say "you can't make generalizations about all people of a group". Apparently they don't know what a generalization is.
Bill pretends he isn't bigoted against all Muslims, but has expressed his horror at the popularity of baby boys given the name Muhammad. That's not making a distinction between ordinary, non-violent Muslims and violent radical Muslims - it's bigotry towards the entire group.
Your basing a actors role to a political argument... The maturity shows. 😏 if you're gonna argue with someone about something, at least come up with relevant arguments, instead of being stubborn... 😉
Am I supposed to believe that all of these people who disagree with Maher and Harris think Islam is full of good ideas? Kristof disagreed with Maher/Harris, then went on to admit that human rights activists are risking their lives by simply being human rights activists in countries molded around the principals of Islam. That is a totally asinine stance. Affleck also came off like an imbecile, with his snide, baseless remarks. Also, there most certainly IS a difference between racism and bigotry, so stop muddying the waters and conflating terms. It's not nitpicking, and it's stupid to suggest it is. Cartoons depicting Mohammed resulted in worldwide riots, for starters. All the twisting in the world won't change that. 7:23 Bullshit. That's not what he said. Cenk is lying.
Nonsense, maher said things that are factually inaccurate, and the fact is that human rights workers are in danger all over the world, and many islamic countries are ruled by western backed dictators, but of course, you'd never think for one nanosecond that the DICTATOR or repressive government had ANYTHING to do with it, you'd say, like a true imbecile, that it's an inevitable, natural result of the infestation of muslims in the country, even though there are countries, like turkey, where human rights workers are in no danger, and that country is almost all muslim and not at all dictatorial or repressive. See? So islam HAS to be the problem and let's ignore politics, social conditions, and reality in general and just bash muslims because that makes us feel better about ourselves.
n8glenn All this coming from the person who told me that those who insult Islam should expect whatever happens to them. Kristof ADMITTED it. Go ahead and tell me how welcome Ayaan Hirsi Ali is in the Islamic world. When an Islamist hacks off a person head screaming about how God is Great, Islam is in fact involved whether you want to deny it or not.
elsquibbs I didn't say that at all. I pointed out that when you insult people, and try to pick fights with them, sometimes they react badly, but you can't say that you're totally innocent in the affair. I also pointed out that most muslims would not try to hurt you for burning a quran, but some might, just like if you get up in church and burn a bible you might get beat down like a dog, or maybe not, but either way, you can't say you didn't ask for it.
elsquibbs Now when some guy in ISIS hacks off somebody's head, he's not doing anything different than somebody dropping a bomb on a village, or committing any act of war, I mean, you've got to be kidding me, right? You think that ISIS is supposed to wage a war where they don't kill anybody?! You think that when erik prince goes to the middle east to exterminate muslims in the name of jesus it's better than when isis tries to kill people in the name of islam?! You think that because erik prince is violent, that makes all christians bad, or because isis is violent, that makes all muslims bad, or because the soviet union was violent, that makes all atheists bad?!
n8glenn Cartoons resulted in global riots. You choose how to react to people, so you only have yourself to blame when you react physically to words. A wife beater doesn't get to blame his wife when he smacks her around. That's not how it works in the West.
Hadda G It is not lmao removing the for skin of the penis doesn't damage anything at they removed mine so it isn't a problem at all all lol dumbest guy trying to comeback me
Ben Affleck seemed naïve and overly emotional. Bill Maher and Sam Harris are correct on this issue. Sam Harris took the time to explain the context of this exchange. It is worth reading - www.samharris.org/blog/item/can-liberalism-be-saved-from-itself
Superman13195 That's ridiculous. If their religion is bad, war won't make it better. Maher and Harris most likely agree with Cenk's ending speech about education, winning their hearts and minds. Harris actually called for a reform of Islam and explained why refusal to admit that Islam is particularly toxic is detrimental to those efforts.
Superman13195 Sam Harris' opinion is that we need to enable Islamic reformation. Your opinion is that we need to enable Islamic reformation. If you both have the same opinion, and Sam Harris' opinion is useless, then so is yours.
Now I'm convinced you're deliberately misrepresenting his opinions, stripping them of all nuance. It's the worst case of reductio ad absurdum I've ever seen.
Grumpy Leprechaun he’s a fantastic writer with surprisingly consistent views. Although I find his work on language acquisition more interesting. I’ve always saw him as somewhat of an collective anarchist in some sense. I see what you mean, that does sound completely contradictory and I largely agree. But his views are clear in his writings and he makes a great deal of sense. And to suggest he is not very intelligent is being disingenuous on your part, I can only hope to assume you were being lighthearted.
you can't call people dumb piece of shit then complain that they are spreading hate. You are spewing hate right now. And to people who didn't even mention it and couldn't be farther from the topic of it.
It’s because Ben Affleck is awesome. 👍🏽 And it’s because Ben Affleck is actually Batman. 😎And he has proved it today because he has probably studied Quran & other several thousand books and knows about Islam and finds it worth saving and worth standing up for. You rock Ben ✊🏽 and Thank you for not caring about the crowd reaction. May Allah Almighty bless you.
+Aurthur Pendragon ...to be honest - it is not so much shocking, that someone who is so idiotic, that he calls himself after a war-criminal, mass-murderer and psychopath - says this. It is rather, that so many people thumbed his comment up!
10:30 "Sam says 20% of Muslims are radicalized, he made that up" *Shows graph that confirms at least 20% are radical. "So when you say all Muslims, that's not true!" What???
Mike May 👍 Yea, i didn't intend to bash you or anything. Just giving a different perspective.. Not that you couldn't figure this out yourself, but you might have only looked at it at a glance and not thought about all the factors in play. The reason I replied to begin with is because people will like your original post and use it as defence for a biased opinion, when in fact they have not looked at the graph themselves. I bet people will continue to like it lol Anywho, have a nice one 🚬😎💨🍻
+Mike May It only adds up to 20% if you generalize about Muslims. Only 38,000 Muslims were surveyed, not the 1 billion that you think they surveyed. That is conservative thinking which is why the people who hate Islam are part of the regressive left. So we only get thousands of Muslims instead of millions of Muslims as the regressive left wants you to believe. And the regressive left is justifying a World War between Islam and the west. They don't want to mention that part of the discussion. www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
+Mike May So now you are censoring speech? You were pointing out that Sam Harris didn't say all Muslims. No one is saying all Muslims. All the people criticizing you are accurately pointing out the flaws in Sam Harris' argument. He is justifying a world war between Islam and the West, and thanks to enough of the Sam Harris fanboys voting for Donald Trump, we now have someone who could initiate that horrible policy, which liberals oppose .
Straight out of the gate Ben claims that criticism of the religion is racist... Criticizing a religion is not racism, hate or bigotry. All religions have bad ideas that should be criticized, calling people racists for doing so is just trying to avoid said criticism.
that is the issue you all fail to see. You claim it is religion's criticism which we all would be on board with, however you resort to making broad statements about every god damn person who belongs to that religion using stupid statistics that are not reflective of every damn one of those places. Are those religious ideas dominant within every muslim society that we can judge every muslim country the same? fuck no. But that does not seem to get sink in your heads due to your own messed up objective pursuing simplicity where it is not easily applicable.
jeremyshambles Yeah it is sad to see Cenk defending religion here. There seems to be no nuance when it comes to this topic. Of course not all Muslims are extremist, most of them aren't. But there are a sizable number of people that take the religion so seriously as to oppress and kill because of it. And there are countries and military groups that are extreme. Of course we should criticize it. And Cenks argument seems to be, "but Christians are as bad as them". Which is only a reason why we should criticize Christianity too (which both Sam and Bill does).
humbleyetarrogant I don't claim that every Muslim is an extremist or that every Muslim country is the same. But there are Muslims and Muslim countries that take their religion way too seriously and that seems to cause oppression and worse. It's just as much a problem if you take Christianity, or most other religions of that matter, too seriously. No religion should be free from criticism.
big·ot·ry ˈbiɡətrē/ noun noun: bigotry; plural noun: bigotries intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself. "the difficulties of combating prejudice and bigotry"
I'm muslim... I don't wanna blow myself up.. just for some reason... I just wanna spread peace and i wanna be myself.. I don't want to force others to follow my religion if they don't want to.. because it doesn't count... Idk what these guys are talking about with no knowledge of Islam also Kudos to Ben Affleck for Atleast defending it... The first line he said was true.. they don't have the knowledge of Islam how can they speak with/or against it... It's like proving science is wrong without knowing anything about it LOL
Well said apart from the no knowledge of Islam. He literally states pew polls in the video with statistics of large scale polling of the Muslim world. Not sure if this was selective hearing but thought I’d circle that bit. Also as much as you’re a perfect example of the perfect Muslim. Sadly if 1 in 4 muslims in the uk think a cartoonist should be harmed for his ‘mocking’ of the prophet Muhammad then say that’s conservatively the view of the rest of muslims that’s over 300m people who think death or injury is fair if someone depicts the prophet poorly. Again I’m very glad you’re tolerant and not living by this commandment but sadly a large percentile of your brothers and sisters if not living by it agree it should be carried out that way.
Brave Heart First off, no other news media that I've seen defends Islam and hates on christianity more than Cenk. (Not saying they aren't out there) Second, I never judged or criticized him... I just claimed facts about him. I never even said I disliked him, nor did I imply it. So, my question is this: Why are you so butt hurt?
As a Muslim I can tell you that what taliban and ISIS is doing has nothing to do with Islam. EDITED: all the people showing hate are actually proving the talibans right. Talibans are of the view that all non-muslims hate Muslims and whatever you do they will call you liars and hate you. STOP PROVING THEM RIGHT. peace and love.
It is utterly ridiculous to try and claim that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. They may not represent the views of most Muslims, but whether you like it or not ISIS only exists in the way that they do because of Islam.
I am not a racist. Islam is not a race and even if it was I still wouldn't be a racist because I didn't say anything bad about it. I just told you the truth and you can't handle it. Sorry pal.
I like the comparison between culture and religion. I personally believe that religion is part of culture not vice versa. You can find different versions of the same religion if different cultures. I also like the fact that you provided solutions like education, rather than banning the religion. I hope to see more videos like this that give us solutions rather than encourage more hatred.
2:02 "The problem is when you conflate criticizing Islam with generalising about Muslims" ....... Then proceeds to do exactly that: 3:43 (Sam Harris said) "Islam is the motherload of bad ideas" 4:07 (Cenk's response to Sam) "When you say 'Muslims' are particularly bad........" (then speaks about Muslims for ages) Sam Harris was talking about Islam. Cenk just conflated Sam Harris' criticism of Islam as a criticism of Muslims lol.
" 'Muslim extremism' is not extreme among Muslims. Mainstream Islam itself represents an extremist rejection of intellectual honesty, gender equality, secular politics and genuine pluralism. The truth about Islam is as politically incorrect as it is terrifying: Islam is all fringe and no center. " __ Sam harris Oh, he's so misunderstood guys. He's not a bigot.
yes because when some one criticis Islam it means criticsing all Muslims ( they all fallow islam .. then they simply say that Muslims fallowing a bad religion ) but if he criticize a group of bad Muslims then its not gonna effect the other innocent Muslims or the religion .. inconclusion they r criticize Islam religion .. because of the action of those few bad people not because of the book or the religion it self .. that's the problem .. its like saying Christianity is bad religion because i saw a Christian guy stealing money yesterday >> which is not Christianity's fault or Islam's fault >> the both religions doesn't support these actions so why blaming the religion .. blaming god for the action of the people is not gonna work in the judgment day
He clearly said "i know there is people bigoted against muslims and thats a problem, but we are talking about critisizing a bad idea, and islam is a motherload of bad ideas" Then Cenk goes on to say that "when you see muslims as particulary bad..." That's excactly waht he said in the beginning of the sentence! he was talking about islam as a bad idea, witch it clearly is like every other religion fundamentally is. And you just tippy-toed around it claiming he's accusing all the muslims. ffs...
Also you can't say that because we have a problem just like this elsewhere, we should not fix this. Just because fundamental christians are being idiots, doesn't mean we should let ISIS be. Also people like Dawkings is actively trying to eradicate this plague from the america, se we're doing something.
Bill marr is saying over a billion people are islamic so they hold islamic ideals. He's not saying every one of them is radical, just that they hold islamic ideals, which we just discussed, is a motherload of bad ideas.
Yea, Cenk completely missed the plot on that comment. Bill was questioning whether Ben thought none of those 1.0 to 1.5 billion "normal" Muslims had radical views, which idiot Ben, who's obviously never looked at a poll of the Muslim world in his life, claimed to be the case, at which point Bill said it wasn't. Clearly he was not saying ALL Muslims have radical views, but disputing Ben's ridiculous claim that none do (outside of actual radicals).
If i'm wrong i'm wrong, just please answer. So if "most" of Islam is "non-fundamentalist" (which i assume Ben Affleck thinks most of Islamic country allow freedoms like the US) can you burn the Qur'an or a picture of Mohamed in public in any Muslim country without getting in trouble? And, I mean in trouble because you are defiling a religious identity, not arson or any other bullshit.
you get in trouble in the US also, TYT recently did a video about some 18ish year old who took a picture of a jesus statue giving him oral and he got in shit.
Literally all of your points are: "But Christians do it too!" Harris and Maher never said that Christianity is any better, neither would either of them say that. The point is that *religion enables these people to commit these atrocities*. It doesn't matter which fucking religion it is.
***** But that IS a point they both have made in the past. That Islam in and of itself is not only bad, but is worse than other religions. It's the worst. That's why Cenk is bringing in Christianity. Because Bill and Sam think that the religion itself (and therefore all the people who follow it) is the worst religion.
Simone Dethrow Yes but he makes the point that Christianity is no better as if Maher and Harris are apologists for Christianity, which if he paid any attention to Maher and Harris at all then he'd know that they're the opposite. I don't actually agree that Islam as a religion is any worse than Christianity, but that doesn't make the guy bringing up Christianity any more relevant. Harris and Maher aren't saying that Christianity is good, in fact they barely mention Christianity at all, except to point out that it's gone through a reform that Islam hasn't, which is true.
Christians don't really follow the Bible, they eat bacon and shrimp, work on sundays, and lots of other stuff. The only thing they really focus on is gays, and they just protest they don't actually stone people to death. Muslims follow their book way more closely than Christians do, they DO still execute people (for witchcraft among other things). Both religions are violent, one group follows their religion more and so is more violent.
+Josh H Apparently you can write bestselling books and create full-length films utterly bashing the Christian religion, and STILL get called a Christian apologist if somebody hears you doing the same thing to Islam...
@Son of Martha When on average 80 percent of British Muslims stated in multiple different polls that the Danish cartoonist should have been prosecuted- those are the cultural issues regarding women and homosexuals and freedom of speech that Harris was bringing up. Entirely relevant points.
SuperYoshikong turkey was close till it started been less secular they just celebrated their independence and founding last week but their founder wouldn't like what he would see today
The only mistake Sam Harris and Bill Maher made in this discussion is that they failed to come armed, for this specific discussion, with the actual proof backing their statements. That, in no way, invalidates what they say nor does it show that there never was any proof. Having seen Sam Harris (and Bill Maher) in many other articles, I know they can back up what they say. The presenter of the Young Turks show is actively misrepresenting them. It's simply concentrating on this particular episode of Maher's show and completely ignoring anything that has ever been said or shown before by Maher or Harris. It destroys debate if you force one side (and only one side) of the debate to continuously have to prove every single detail of what they say, every time they say it. Why is it that Harris and Maher are being required to prove what they say but Affleck isn't? Where's Affleck's proof that the majority of Muslims do not hold pernicious beliefs? He hasn't any proof of that during this debate so he must be wrong? Is that the level of debate we are on here Cenk? If one side of a debate must have producable evidence on them of every single point they make then that burden of proof must apply to the other side also. If you want proof that there is a particular problem with Islam then just look at the undeniable fact that wherever there are Muslims in the world there is conflict and/or terrorism. This is simply not true of Christianity. Nor is it true of just about every other religion. Why? Because Christianity has been tempered by Secularism. Islam has not, by and large (perhaps with the exception of former Communist states) and Islam teaches Jihad. You have to go back centuries for other religions to be so indoctrinated in the concept of holy war. Cenk is misusing polls and graphs here to try and prove his point. He picks one graph from Pew regarding the prevelance of the belief that apostasy should be punished by death in various Islamic countries. He concentrates on countries like Kazakhstan where only 4% of Muslims who believe Sharia Law should be the law of the land, think death is an appropriate punishment. You will notice that on that graph it is mostly the former communist states and other secularised countries that have low belief in the death penalty of apostasy. What I'm wondering though, is how he thinks this proves Muslims in those countries are just like you or me in the West? Just because many do not want you killed for apostasy does not mean they don't want you punished in some other (less final) way: www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/ That link gives further graphs, in addition to the one Cenk gives in the video and they don't paint Islam in a good light. I wonder what the percentage will be of American Christians, who believe that the Church should play a larger part on politics, believe apostasy should be punished by death? Go outside of America and the percentage amongst Christians who might believe that would be even smaller. The Church of England, for example, is so benign as to be practically pointless. Which is the point. It almost certainly is a minority of muslims who want to cause trouble against non-believers, but it is a far larger and more significant minority than is the case in other religions, which points to a particular problem with Islam. What I saw in that discussion was an actor feeling uncomfortable discussing a difficult subject and resorting to the tired old tactic of makin wrongful accusations of bigotry. It is not impressive.
princeaizen No it doesn't - They still had an understanding of trends in the Islamic world. They just were not prepared to come in and cite exhaustive statistics.
Cenk made a lot of mistakes, but here's two big ones -- 1) Bill Maher: "A billion people you say? All these billion people don't hold any of those per -- [interrupted] -- don't hold these pernicious beliefs? I would..[mumbling and interruptions] - that's just not true, Ben." Cenk Unger: "...Bill Maher saying, 'No, over a billion Muslims. All of them. Not a small minority. Not even, you know, a significant minority.' No, he said, 'That's not true. All of them hold those opinions.' He might not have literally said "all," but when Affleck talked about over a billion people, Maher said, 'That's not true, they do hold those - [babble] - over a billion people hold, what, radical views.'" So, maybe Cenk missed it because of the interruption, and because Bill Maher worded it poorly, but Maher was clearly trying to say something like, "You don't think that out of a billion people [or a billion-five, as Affleck points out], there aren't any people who hold any of these pernicious views?" I think from context it's clear that this is what Maher was trying to say, which makes Cenk's further accusations that Maher and Harris were talking about "all Muslims," or nearly all Muslims, incorrect. 2) Sam Harris: “Just imagine some concentric circles here. You have at the center, you have Jihadists. These are people who wake up in the morning wanting to kill apostates, wanting to die trying. They believe in paradise, they believe in martyrdom. Outside of them we have Islamists. These are people who are just as convinced of martyrdom and paradise, and wanting to foist their religion on the rest of humanity. But they want to work within the system. They’re not going to blow themselves up on a bus. They want to change governments; they want to use democracy against itself. That, those two circles, arguably, are 20% of the Muslim world...” Cenk Unger: “...but the negative way of addressing that is, ‘All Muslims believe this.’ And then based on that poll and a couple others I saw, I’ll make up a number of 20% who all are radical Islamists who would like to blow people up.” So, this is just Cenk blatantly misrepresenting what Sam Harris has said. Not to mention that Affleck could have taken him up on the offer to talk about where the 20% figure came from, and he didn’t. We don’t know if Harris had a sound basis for the claim (although he addresses it a little in parts not shown here, but not enough to actually justify the 20% figure). Cenk turns around with one study on Muslim attitudes about the death penalty among various Muslim countries, and without doing any math regarding the sample sizes in question, he concludes the 20% figure is bullshit - also without any real foundation. Now, Sam Harris’s mistake was that he didn’t say what proportion of the 20% was the type to kill people, and which part were the hardline theocrats who were a threat to liberty. But I think it’s clear enough from context that he meant for the killing group to be a much smaller portion of the 20% than the hardline non-killers. After all, the killers were supposed to be the innermost circle of concentric circles; suggesting that the next (non-killing) circle outward is larger (duh). Cenk is just being deliberately uncharitable and misleading in interpreting Harris’s argument. He does this with Maher and Harris's statements all through the video in order to wrongly portray them as saying that all Muslims are violent extremists.
This video does such a good job at completely derailing the context and intents in the real video of Bill Maher and Sam Harris. Lost a lot of respect with one.
@@hujintao3027 Also defend islam from who ? Western countries have already tore the middle east when they were funding wahabism and Islamic Fundamental to get some cheap oil, you destroyed whole countries for your own greed
@@hooby7045 You should really look at what the governments in the Middle East does before you just blame Westerners. The governments in the Middle East take people's homes/ businesses and sell them to foreign countries Like China, UK. Do you think the uprising in Egypt happened because of what? People couldn’t find jobs. They were taking their businesses and selling it to foreign countries under the emergency law.
@@missmina5696 I already know US funded Middle Eastern governments are trash. I have every right to blame the US, I'm an Iraqi. The Iraq war started because of lies
He misrepresented literally every single argument made by Maher/Harris. I actually feel like I’ve regressed intellectually after watching this. Why is this even a show? I want my 24 minutes back.
it's not facts it's no a fact just becuz he said it's a fact 90% of muslims think that muslims who leaves islam should be dead that's ridiculous im muslim and i can assure u that 98% of muslims ar totally against that
If you want to be a muslim or somone does Learn the Teachings of islam on YOUR own Do not use the internet Do not understand it from somone else learn it on your own
jake thomp That's not an explanation. Here's what happened at Maher's show back then: Harris tries to have an honest and productive conversation about islam. He talks about how many muslims around the world have quite anti-liberal ideas, according to Pew Research polls. And then some ignorant dipshit in the hollywood asskissing circuit calls Harris a 'racist'. Harris didn't say anything that was racist or inaccurate
So Cenk totally misrepresents Sam Harris's statements/arguments here and Affleck is an idiot. People, do yourselves a favour and watch the original clip without that Cenk editing/bias.
CORRECT! He's picking bits and pieces just to stir an issue. The main point was that LIBERALS WERE LOSING BECAUSE OF THEY FAILED TO ADDRESS ISSUES THAT REALLY MATTER TO LIBERAL PRINCIPLES. It was not about generalizing against Muslims. It was about calling out the bad ideas in Islam. Affleck then overreacted and skewed the discussion.
" 'Muslim extremism' is not extreme among Muslims. Mainstream Islam itself represents an extremist rejection of intellectual honesty, gender equality, secular politics and genuine pluralism. The truth about Islam is as politically incorrect as it is terrifying: Islam is all fringe and no center. " __ Sam harris Just because bigots can play on words and not always explicitly utter phrases that can be 100% used to condemn them, it doesn't mean that we cannot deduce what their ideas entail especially when they made them clear on a couple of occasions and got a bad reputation cause of it.
Islam is the truth. N Islam always wins. Islam saved the world. Islam preserved knowledge from book burning christians and saved the world by defeating Mongols
One of the most common formulas in a tyt video is as follows: Part 1) 30 seconds of Cenk describing how he couldn't possibly be pro Islam due to the fact that he left the Muslim religion. Part 2) 25 minutes of Cenk defending the Muslim religion.
lastcupofsorrow1 Defending a religion for the sake of the religion is fine. What Cenk is doing here is much worse: he’s defending a religion for the sake of political correctness under the pretense that it’s for the religion. He knows damn well the rotten ideas of the religion (hence, i assume, why he left), yet he is scared of seeming critical to his followers in PC fantasyland.
Farhia Hussein I admit I have a bias towards Cenk, yes, but I always maintain open mind and hear the whole argument. What Cenk said here makes no sense and contributes no rebuttal towards Harris’ argument against radical Islam.
I consider myself a liberal, but I can't agree with Cenk on this one. It seems to me that most modern day liberals have an unwillingness to criticize the reactionary aspects or expressions of other cultures, expressions that these liberals would have no hesitation whatsover in criticizing if they were exhibited by, say, Southern white Christians.
Well that's why they fail so badly on this issue. Now I myself am not a liberal nor am I a conservative, I try and stay as objective as possible. and objectively speaking, most of the time when we see Christianity at it's worst, it's the Westboro Baptist Church picketing a funeral making homophobic remarks. With Islam, it's beheading, suicide bombings, mass murder, genital mutilation, ect. It's not an effective point to say "Hey wait a minuet, look at how bad fundamentalist Christianity is." Yeah it's bad, But I don' think anybody's really afraid that a wbc member is going to walk up to them one day and chop their head off.
Corey Jones and to be accurate, wbc and fundamentalist Islamic groups follow the letter of the scriptures in their supposed "holy books" more closely than any other followers of those religions. this is what harris and maher are criticizing. these "holy" texts give justification to such behavior and thus ensure the prevalence of such blights on civilization.
That chart that Cenk showed at 11:05 pretty much proves Harris' point and Cenk doesn't even realize it. You'd have to take into account the populations of each of those countries but the average percentage seems to be right around the 20% mark. I mean Pakistan plus Afghanistan plus Egypt is 300 million people. People keep bringing up Indonesia as if two billion people lived there or something. There are almost as much people in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Egypt who think apostates should be killed (196 million) than there are people in Indonesia who don't (219 million). So ya, this isn't something to brush under the rug as a tiny minority. It's hundreds of millions of people who hold some incredibly stupid and dangerous beliefs that stem from their religion. Also, in case you were keeping score, 20% of a 1.5 billion is 300 million. In just three countries: Egypt, Pakistan and Afghanistan 196 million people think apostates should be killed. So that 20% mark is not made up as Cenk so stupidly implied. PS: I was just doing a quick calculation so I assumed all people in those countries I mentioned are Muslim which isn't correct. So in the interest of openness and honesty my figures are slightly inflated. I don't feel like doing the actual calculations for a youtube comment probably nobody will actually read, so this is just a rough estimate.
Agreed. If anything, the actual percentage is even higher than 20%, seeing as major pro-death penalty countries aren't even on the list: Saudi Arabia (~30 million), Iran (~77 million), and Nigeria (~176 million) - all of which polls show have 50+% approval for an apostasy death penalty! Even without them, with Bangladesh (~156 million people) at 38% added, the "big three" of Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Egypt, easily outweigh the "moderates" in Turkey and Indonesia.
HerrRoehrich That's a good point. I noticed Iran wasn't there but totally forgot about Saudi Arabia or some of the majority Muslim countries in Africa. Indeed, the percentage could easily be more than 20 and yet some people just refuse to accept the reality of the situation.
I also love how Cenk points out countries in which ''only 10%'' believe in the death penalty for apostasy as though 10% is not a fucking GIANT number of people. Let's imagine that 10% of Christians in the USA believed in the death penalty for apostasy - can you imagine how fucking outraged Cenk would be? Does anyone really think that he'd be saying ''well, 90% of American Christians DON'T believe in that so let's all calm down''?
Ya the problem with your quick math is you are miss leaded by wrong numbers and you add to those errors MORE errors and you put the life of a lot of peoples on the line here .. ANy way you are Brainwashed little useless shit who need to open a fucking book and educate your soon to be sorry ass WUSSIE boy
Sam Harris is a genius who has studied this stuff for years. He says its the motherload of bad ideas because it fucking is! You don't see modern Christians doing the things that modern Muslims are doing. And even so Sam is no stranger to ripping apart Christians either. This guy knows his shit, I mean he's a decorated neuroscientist with a tremendous amount of insight for fuck sake. Who the fuck is Ben Affleck but a second choice for bat man? Sam Harris has got more knowledge and intelligence in his pinky than anyone else at that table combined. Cenk is so wrong here, unbelievably wrong. Like how many times are you gonna straw man his arguments. Cenk is a smart man but I find it hard to believe that he is really this incapable of understanding what Harris is trying to say. Sam clearly is not generalizing all Muslim, he is criticizing the belief system and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that because the belief system fucking sucks. He's not saying anything about Muslims that he wouldn't say about Christians.
does Sam harris know the arabic language? does he know the qur'an and the bible word for word like the back of his hand? no? then your entire argument falls apart bud. more knowledge than a full full fledged Muslim my ass.
SIRcrapsalot McCummingtons Omg have you read the whole bible??? Do you speak full latin? Sorry your argument fails, you can't criticize the pope when he covers up child rape...
Sims3loser, The Awkward Simmer Thats completely different on the one hand your criticizing an entire group of people because of their beliefs (muslims) and are stating that the religion itself is inherently wrong when you actually no nothing about it. On the other hand your criticizing individuals (the pope) for their actions and not their beliefs. Its perfectly okay to criticize muslims who behead people, but its not okay to conflate all muslims with this image. No rational person thinks all catholics rape children.
how is that region a motherload of bad ideas, when we created and funded most of the hardline terrorists because we couldn't stand socialism???? It's a case of chickens coming back home to roost.
Here you had 2 rational men discussing a topic that gets very little coverage on tv and on the opposite side an immature man-child who has spent his life surrounded by people that agree with him and reassure every one of his beliefs, because they dont dare challenge him due to his status. Shows like Maher should really get celebrities out of the studio as soon as any important topic is hit, in years of show watching and clip binging on youtube I have NEVER seen an actor or singer or celebrity coming up with a comment on a topic that wasnt either completely wrong, superficial or just saying anything even remotely interesting.
It’s not Islamophobia to criticise Islam, which is what Harris and Maher were doing. Ben Affleck didn’t really have much of a point here at all, and if you think he did you need to reconsider what you deem to be an effective argument.
As a journalist, try the exact same thing with Judaism and we will talk about it later. But for now you obviously don't know what you are talking about.
Mamadou Keita yes, well while agree that the Torah contains just as vulgur material as the Quran, that doesn’t change the fact that there are no countries with law based entirely upon Judaism, while there are 15 countries that operate under the basis of Sharia law.
7:20 - you are misquoting Bill Maher. "All those billion people don't hold any of those beliefs?" Ben Affleck: "No." I.e., Ben Affleck appears to say that none of the billion people hold any of those beliefs, or at most only a very small portion of them. "That's just not true Ben" - i.e., at least some of the billion people (more than a very small portion) hold at least some of the pernicious beliefs. You translate that as "Those billion Muslims. All of them." That is just very poor journalism Cenk. Listen to the tape again.
It appears that actually you agree with Bill Maher -- there is a significant minority of Muslims who do hold pernicious beliefs 'no one understands the dangers than I do.'
11:29, if you did a weighted average of that plot, it wouldn't be that far off from 20%, is it? Of course supporting the death penalty for apostasy is not the best metric for the Islamists Sam Harris was talking about, but it is a useful first approximation, right? I also don't know what particular poll numbers SH based his 20% on but I'm guessing he just used a bunch of similar polls and averaged them roughly to get a round number. Not great technique, but he did say 'a bunch of poll numbers that we can talk about' and apparently Ben Affleck was not really interested in talking about them, instead continuing his accusations of racism.
12:20, he actually specifically said they are not interested in blowing people up, instead trying to use democracy against itself. Could you please listen to what he said before you misquote him?
13:28, when did Maher ever say that everyone in Indonesia does it? He just said that there will be death threats from Islam but not from Christianity (or at least significantly more death threats from Islam than Christianity). I would say that the truth of this claim is almost self-evident. We had a crucifix put in pee, right? How many embassies were raided by Christians as a result of that (compare to the Danish cartoons)?
As a woman, how can you believe or defend your so called religion or cult? Islamic law does not consider women mentally or legally the equal of males. Additionally, children are perceived as the "substance of the male" and merely incubated by the female body. In the case of divorce, women lose all custody of children. Are you that stupid???
Arthur Harper I could go through the Christian bible right now and read some passages as to how woman and children should be treated. So should I judge all Christians on that?
Girl, Sam Harris bases his opinons on polls he took. It aint a generalisation, he quotes the polls as is. Apparently he found a significant chunk of population agreeing with some terrorists actions even though they aint terrorists themselves. That is Sam's point- the fundamentalist ideology is far more spread than the actual fundamentalists themselves.
freedom1322009101 the point is not how we definite the koran or the bible (books were writing a very long time ago) the point is how much fits this attitude to the year 2014.
It’s interesting how the majority of times people like Sam Harris critique Islam there are no Muslim people present to defend it. I’m glad Affleck spoke up when he didn’t have to.
Cenk, this was really bad. You grossly misrepresented Maher's and Harris' position and called them bigots for it. Regardless of whether this is merely a failure to comprehend on your part or if it was deliberately dishonest, you owe your audience an apology.
I really sad of how Islam is talked about, I m muslim. and from I know, Islam is a way of bringing peace to the world. An education of how living in sustainable way, balancing our connection with Allah, human, and nature. it s also the Christian mission right and all thse religions. the problem is when its happened a friction from these all group of population that strict to "you re different with me than you re wrong".Its better to educate the population that there it is the different of human in this world. Mehdi from Morocco
***** Um, yes, centuries ago, the Catholic Church was dangerous...which is why England broke away from it and created the Church of England because it was tired of the Catholic Church having control over everything. Ever since then, and nations moving away from using religion in their policies, everything has gotten way better. Your comments about this technologically advanced Arabia that had developed superpowers is funny...what did they do right if they went from that to being one of the least technologically advanced areas in the world, as well as very smelly, dirty, illiterate and murderous? Oh yeah, Islam sure did wonderful things for them...because look how great they are doing.
Sam- people are trying to crush criticism of Islam by claiming that anything negative spoken is bigotry. Ben- You racist! Thank you Ben for proving his point.
ben is bringing up racism because it is a generalization of a group of people, just like judging all muslims. you're smart enough to understand that, right? nope.
sk8bow Yes I understand and I think its bullshit. You cant call yourself by a term that's very purpose is to be a generalized label and then try an pick and choose the stigma that comes with it. The only difference between a ‘moderate Muslim’ and a ‘fundamentalist’ one is one takes their bullshit literally. They are both 'Muslims' and the crap about women being inferior and direct commands to kill people who disagree with you is still there.
darkblood626 You just described the very premises of a hasty generalization fallacy. How are women treated in Indonesia?. Have they ever had a female head of state?. Indonesia has after all the largest Muslim population in the world. You shouldn't take pride in being illogical, that's what bigots do.
Ben Affleck was wrong. I'm glad he freaked out though so discourse on this subject can begin in the public. Criticizing a religion, is NOT RACIST. A religion is not a person, it does not have a skin color, it is a set of ideas and doctrines, all of which should be logically scrutinized by anyone subjected to them.
I agree with you, hating on a religion isn't racist. Hating a group of people is, so the people practicing the religion being hated on would be racist, not the religion itself.
Educated BlackMan ya ya ya the most brutal muslim country is sauidi arabia and we give them money everyday this might sound like a talking line but its the truth just go look at some shit they do they cut peoples heads off for next to nothing literally because of sharia law and somehow its ok for them to cause they sell us oil
Sara Hightree Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I thought it would be sufficient to imply it, but it turns out my first statement was truer than I anticipated.
Sara Hightree Because you presuambly wrote "I love Ben Affleck" after watching this specific segment. Hopefully, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you watched the ENTIRE video. But even IF you did, you would understand that his view on this matter was off point. He isn't a horrible person or anything, he was just NOT thinking and not listening THIS time. The third possibility is that you simply wrote the comment due to the fact that you saw a video clip of him... and I guess this would be the most innocent alternative. How's that.
So many people have an agenda that they’re trying to defend based on something they have chosen to believe. This makes it very difficult to take in new information and objectivity view the topic.
Oh god it must be enormously frustrating to be Sam right now. Ben took up all the airtime at the show with his irrational irritation over a position Sam never defended to begin with. Now Cenk does the same thing all over. LISTEN to what Sam is actually saying, watch his debates read his writings. It's painful to watch TYT misrepresent him this way.
I like how the audience claps either way. "Liberals suck!" Claps. "Liberals are awesome!" Claps. What a confused group of people.
Audiences feel compelled to clap, especially if there's a person, or sign, gesturing to 'clap'.
There were two people talking at the same time
The audience has to have a unanimous mutual response or else they're confused
we have that on a programme called Question Time. I've noticed when the same audience member claps for both comments even though they're totally opposing sides. No wonder most people don't know what these politicians are up to.
As for Affleck, well I'm DEFINATELY on the "liberals suck" side, especially actors. They don't have proper jobs and live priveliged lives, so they have zero idea what's really going on. Islam is evil IMO, just look at halal slaughter. And yes, I am vegetarian because I've seen how animals die, halal slaughter or not and it's horrifying. I wouldn't want it done to me so why should I inflict it on defenceless animals ?
you know theres more theres more than one person in the audience right? 50 people might believe one side and another 50, the other. you will hear the same amount of clapping for each side. dumbasses
Didn't you hear Sam? He said Islam is the mother of bad ideas, he didn't say that muslims are particularly bad.
And so did this host say that he isn't in favor of all religions and he says their ideas are wrong he didn't say people of all religions are wrong in ideas
+Juan Antonio Ríos I wonder'd same thing.
+Juan Antonio Ríos Which further implies its followers are also because its Moslems who follow the so called "mother of bad ideas Islam"(according to Sam). As Cenk said that Islam doesn't allow to make any statues or the idols of Allah or Mohammed or any other religious celebrities, Islam is emphasizing to believe in an unseen entity which refers that Islam is much more of a spiritual religion. After all, there are Sufis who cut off themselves from the rest of the world to live in euphoria of true love. I suggest Sam and Bill to read the poetry of Rumi, Bullah, Waris Shah and explore what kind of mother with bad ideas Islam is.
+Juan Antonio Ríos then all religions are bad ideas. the same shit is in the bible and taurat.
Motherload* meaning it is the one particular religion that he believes to have the MOST number of bad ideas
I think it is very important to distinguish between criticising a race and criticising a religion though.
Criticising a race is nonsensical and unethical, because a person's race does not directly determine their beliefs and actions.
Whereas people have to be able to criticise ideologies that they do not agree with.
Criticize on whose yardstick- one's own religion?
bos leon One's own values, whatever they may be.
Well said
Why? ??
you do realize only americans still talk about "race" - you should take it out of the voabulary in hte first place, racism is the belief that they are race amongst humans, and that one is better than others. Scientist already proved the human specie has no race, whatsoever. So what you wanna say is, yes criticising a culture and a religion is sane but has to be distiguished anyway because its not the same, specially when you put it that way . They are many sociological things that interlace together in any issue.
Ben Affleck = human being
@Hitchslap your equation is perfectly balanced.
Ben Affleck = arrogant human being
@@trufantom21 but still he is a human being
May be our community brothers Muslims are wrong about their tradition and culture but we can't say that they are wrong and we can correct them that's the right thing. I am an Indian. In India here there is so many religions are there including Hindus and Muslims as majority. Think about a situation what happen when these communities started to blame each other for their religious practices, there will be war. I think Ben Affleck was right because he doesn't want his Muslim brothers to harassed. He did the right thing.
@John Smith you are wrong brother because they have their own religious practices we can't blame that
iam muslim and I dont belaive in ISIS as muslims
we love peace
I love u all :(
Bill maher said you do ! LIAR !
if only most people would have the heart to believe you. I just wish everyone could just live in peace.
Damn, calm down and watch some cat videos or something...
I feel like a hippie saying this but; preach love, not war . :/
bullshit. ISIS=Islam
Orlando massacre = islam
50k /41k. Polarised for sure.
What do you think?
@@ITSAULGONEbecause tyt is a hack, tries to inject their cliché narrative again, which why their videos these days switched to "newest first"
did anyone else unsubscribe from TYT years ago when you got out of your teen years and realized that these people are not the intellectual and unbiased people you actually thought they were?
Yea they're basically the liberal version of Fox News and I consider myself liberal, just can't take their BS and this whole regressive left movement it's infuriating to anyone with a brain. It's become like a game of tag when you're a child and there was home base where as long as you were there you were safe and couldn't be touched. Certain topics have become that way to these people like Islam, gender issues, certain racial issues, all things I support tolerance and equality with, but it's like these topics are "home base" and if you're touching them no one can argue you
I always thought of them as stupid liberal dweebs, never tool them seriously, honestly.
Jesse Compton why are you here if you don't like them
Jesse Compton yes. 😌
Sweet. Im 17, never subbed to them, and have considered them exactly that, liberal fox news. Score one for me? Brownie points for being ahead of the curve?
"We cannot conflate a criticism of Islam with Islamophobia."
4mins in, he promptly conflates the two. This channel is such swill, honestly.
No he doesn't
Ryan Moore he absolutely does misrepresent his points, clearly in the clip he speaks about people conflating the two yet cent consistently makes false equivalencies as well as skewing data from cherry picked information. This show is so inconsistent it has become trash
Lmao
" 'Muslim extremism' is not extreme among Muslims. Mainstream Islam itself represents an extremist rejection of intellectual honesty, gender equality, secular politics and genuine pluralism. The truth about Islam is as politically incorrect as it is terrifying: Islam is all fringe and no center. "
__ Sam harris
Oh, he's so misunderstood guys. He's not a bigot. Stop with the lies, just prefacing your bigoted/racist remakes with saying "I'm not racist, but.." does not exempt you form being seen as one for really obvious reasons.
0mer no he’s not misunderstood merely misrepresented by afleck who attempts to conflate two separate criticisms of Islam as an ideology.
Islam is not equal to muslims, however while you call him a bigot do you deny the truth within his statements. Does Islam not contradict gender equity and lead to oppression of women? Seems to me the facts show that women are almost always oppressed or abused within Muslim nations, what about religious freedom when many belief apostates should be killed or punished? Let’s be real Islam as a religion or ideology does have extremist tendencies that continue to pervade the governments who institute its laws, I guess it’s just a coincidence Saudi Arabia has barely begun to allow women to drive themselves.
"The crucial point of confusion is that we have been sold this meme of islamophobia, where every criticism of the doctrine of Islam gets conflated with bigotry towards Muslims as people."
And then Ben proceeds to spend the rest of the segment proving Sam right.
that is precisely why sam is a genius and cenk is a water buffalo
Aleck has ancestors that were sae owners
except the definition of islamophobia is the hatred of muslims not the criticism of the religious dogma. if you're already confused about this simple definition then we can't trust you to give a relevant opinion, can we ?
Bob Please don't refer to an entire religion of human beings as "vermin," it only exposes your racism. LGBT (which exactly?!) or not, anyone can be a bigot, and your revealing yourself as one is a bad look to say the least.
You're the type to cry and moan Anti Semitism if someone critizices the israelis for their apartheid. But if someone says "we should have a war against Muslims purely because of their religion", then you'll call it freedom of speech. Islamaphobia is a problem because there are more idiot rednecks like you and your family than actual educated people who don't support the Islamaphobic hate the West makes a business out of. Keep crying snowflake. You're upset because the Islamic Countries control your economy. Keep begging them for more oil.
You cut out a vital part of that video where Sam Harris makes it clear that he doesn`t mean ALL muslims. Your whole video is based on bad editing from your own part. What Sam Harris means isn`t that ALL muslims are bad, but that islam as a religion is more dangerous than other religions. You know that and that makes this video even more embarassing from your part.
+Bjørnar Iversen Agreed.
The edit is how they indoctrinate the weak.
+Bjørnar Iversen Dangerous in which way? Because it hasn't evolved to fit with modern western life?
Should we say, Islam still the only religion that hasn't lost it's cause or roots?
I mean Judaism in the time of Moses is not the Judaism of today. Same goes to Christianity.
are you serious ? did you watch the video? and have you read the bible? just take a seat one day and read itm
+Hector Gonzalez The differences are first of all that chrisitanity do have a new testament and several reforms of christianity that has "modernized" the religion. Islam has a problem and that is that it`s still a medival violent religion.
I think that todays' problem is that people try to mock islam while they don't know shit about. If you hear bad things about islam doesn't mean that you're now officially a expert on islam
So Islam doesn't teach that people will be viciously tortured in Hell?
Smithpolly as example your comment, I've seen this thousand upon thousand of times on youtube, people like you who cherrypick texts out of the quran without any kind of research or education about the belief system
Ismaïl Yahyaoui Idrissi So Islam doesn't teach that people will be viciously tortured in Hell?
Smithpolly no
Ismaïl Yahyaoui Idrissi So there is no Hell?
" We have to be able to criticize bad ideas." True statement.
The Talmud is a lot worse than the Koran.
Why do people defend Islam but hate on Christianity?
Affleck is an idiot
So is whoever this guy is
+MKCD 20 Because they are totally confused ?
+MKCD 20 Check out Eric Allen Bell. He clearly explains how / why the supposedly liberal SJW mind follows a default rationale. That is to say white male privilege is the problem. all the worlds problems can be traced back to that demographic. That is why Left wing groups champion alternative cultures, why the SWP in UK march alongside Islamist groups chanting and bearing banners " "WE ARE ALL HEZZBOLLAH NOW !" Hollywood Establishment have blacklisted ERIC for exposing the real truth as opposed to the Holywood Michael Moore "truth".
I defend Islam Christianity and Jewdasium against who ever goes against them and I'm a Muslim.
you do realize that your statistic which was supposed to clearly debunk the whole "20% of muslims have somewhat radical views" thing adds up to almost exactly 20% of muslims supporting death penalty for leaving islam?
And that's already leaving out almost 900 million of muslims worldwide by the way. Just to clarify
How so?
1) Look at chart
2) Estimate the actual % of muslims per country that are in favor of death penalty for apostasy because there are no vertical lines in the picture except for the multiples of 10%, when in doubt, estimate lower than it actually is to not have a too high outcome (basically benefit of the doubt)
3) Go to Wikipedia, look up the countries that were mentioned in the graph
4) Look up the population numbers for each respective country aswell as % count of people in the respective country who are of islamic faith. multiply the population count by "% muslims" and you have the absolute number of muslims for the respective countries. Sum all these up together. You'll need it later.
5) Sum up the number of muslims in each country multiplied with the % number of muslims per country that (morally) support death penalty for apostasy. You now have the absolute number of muslims supporting the death penalty for apostasy in all countries combined (at least those which you chose to include into your calculation)
6) Interpret your results. I used a normal calculator to quickly do this. Based off of the chart presented in the video i started on the right side of the chart with Afghanistan, including every country on the left side of it up until indonesia after which i stopped because the numbers were getting pretty low and it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the calculation much. before anyone tries to get at me for this, this only even lowers the estimated number. The actual number is (based off this chart) in fact higher than what this calculation would give you as a result.
As far as i remember, this calculation included some number around 700-750 million muslims (this number comes from step 4 and the result was that out of these 750+- million people, around 280-300million were morally supporting the death penalty for apostasy. Once again, more math stuff:
6a) Divide 280million/750million (this produces the lowest % outcome of the numbers i just gave you), that gives you roughly 37.3% of muslims supporting the death penalty for leaving islam out of those included in the earlier calculations
6b) Divide 280million/1.5 billion, that gives you roughly 18.7% of muslims supporting the death penalty for leaving islam out of ALL muslims worldwide. Note: that's assuming that out of the remaining 750million muslims not included in the earlier calculations, noone does support death penalty for leaving Islam.
I'm aware that all these numbers aren't exactly true because wikipedia sometimes has outdated data on country populations etc. (most numbers are from 2012-2015 +-) and it's also not clear from the video how many people have actually been included in the survey to even create the chart. I also realize that data is often times manipulated, but in that case, why bother including it at all?
Even if the whole math stuff isn't for you, take away the following things from this:
1. If anything, unlike the host pretends in the video, the shown image does not debunk Sam Harris' "20% number" but rather, depending on how you choose to interpret the data, either confirms it pretty accurately, or even almost doubles this number.
2. When you try to use statistical charts to make a point, sit down for 5 minutes and crunch the numbers before you embarrass yourself like the presenter of this video did. This is 6th grade math.
Well it still is a minority.
it's a huge minority - revolutions happen with just 10% of people with radical ideas.
I wish they would both go live in islam ruled country and then come back and yell us how much it is like us!!
Cenk and Ben
+Tara Mokaya "Cenk n' Ben's adventures in Saudi Arabia"
+Tara Mokaya dont use propaganda and lies against islam cause it doesnt work.
+Jerry Perkins - That right there--calling truth about what happens when Islam is practiced properly as "propaganda and lies"--is in itself propaganda and lies. It's the GO TO tactic when someone notices a truth about Islam, it's called "a lie!" even when it's true. But it causes timid PC people to back down.
just tell me why your churches are empty and for sale,tell me why your families are desingreating,it touches the collapse of faith and creates social dysfinction.You don't read your own Bible ;do you know that the legalized polygamy in Islam is inferior to the unlimited clandestine adultery in the WEST;
He didn’t say “all of them”. Stop lying.
@MainstreamPoPsucks3 Bruh I think we’re on the same side here.
@MainstreamPoPsucks3 Oh gosh sorry 😐
That’s what TYT does.
☘️ *Cenk is deliberately lying & twisting what Marr said* .He said "Ben, your saying that Over a billion (Muslim) people & *all* of these billion people *don't* hold these pernicious views? That's just not true, Ben, that's just not true."
Meaning Marr was rejecting BA's claim that out of a billion Muslims, *none* of them held these bigoted views.
Just to be clear, Marr was saying that BA's claim "that all 1billion Muslims don't hold these (bigoted) views" was wrong. Cenk is a total liar.
@@stellamaris5405 exactly,how can this guy dishonestly present that?
None of them have ever lived in a Muslim country.
There is no "Muslim nation" there are only Muslims
@@selimfurkandalgic9548 There are Muslim countries in the sense that the question in question is populated by mostly Muslims.
@@selimfurkandalgic9548 that is absolute nonsense . Islam is the state religion of numerous countries and Iran is basically a totalitarian theocracy
@@maartenjanez1489 Iran kills muslims in Yemen,Iraq and Syria EVERYDAY. Suudis does the same in Yemen too plus when iran fight against Suudis they ban their people to visit macce which is every muslims (if he able to) must do that. There are corrupt dictators called "Musrik"s. People who claim to be Muslim but there are not also gives bad reputation to our religion. Quran is about person and one God other stuff is man made
@@selimfurkandalgic9548 and just like the followers of any religion, they all believe different things. You ask 100 Muslims about their beliefs, you'll get a 100 different answers.
Ben Affleck needs to actually go to the middle east.
+FusRoDah2 he should! :] im sure he'll love it
+FusRoDah2 he should! :] im sure he'll love it
you need to go to the middle east...ben have been here several times maybe if u come here for a couple of days you will change your god damned bigot views
+FusRoDah2 I'm sure he has been to Dubai and stayed in a 5 star hotel and now acts like he is an expert in middle eastern culture.
***** It sad how someone can be so blind to the reality of the world that they live in.
Why would you even invite Affeck to this debate? Thats like inviting me to talk on the Higgs boson
Because Ben Affleck is The Batman
why invite Scot Baio to foxnews to talk bad about Islam?
Nila Kall Because Scott Baio is a fuckboy.
Ben Affleck actually studied middle eastern affairs in college! he didn't finish but that was his major!
Because he studied Middle Eastern affairs in his college education.
The Qur'an says that "there is no compulsion in religion," so anyone claiming that Allah orders other Muslims to kill the leaver is out of line. We are not allowed to punish people who decide that Islam isn't for them, and Muslim theocratic governments who make laws that have such punishments within them are not doing so from an Islamic position at all.
Its really important to understand that these people who are in favour of these things don't even seem to understand their own beliefs.
if people don't understand it, it maybe difficult to understand, it doesn't teach tolerance enough, or make it easy enough to understand.
. The freedom of belief in Islam, under Islamic law, means the freedom of Muslims to exercise their faith and the freedom of all to accept Islam. The Islamic legal system has no negative religious freedom for Muslims and does not recognize the claim to be a member of any religion. Accordingly, Muslims do not have the right to convert to another religion or live without religion.
~Wikipedia
This guy on the tv are liar, im pretty sure he doesnt stdy quran.🙄
@@ME-mz5vk wikipedia... thats all im gonna say
@@MAS99341 Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, and then undone immediately, and block the IP of the person who did so falsely, lock them if targeted, and sources required. There literally isn't a better more reliable way of having up to date source based information. Wikipedia being unreliable is a meme, and your response is as scripted as it gets for an NPC. Prove me wrong.
Ben Affleck, a two-time college dropout, criticizing Sam Harris. That is hilarious.
Yes, because as history has shown, dropping out of college means you are a less intelligent person. Well, when you eliminate Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Oprah Winfrey, F. Scott Fitzgerald, John Lennon, and Walt Disney...too just name a few
+JohnWaterhouse Oprah Winfrey? Careful dude your heros are showing
+JohnWaterhouse Go on, name some more? Oh they are only a tiny proportion of successful people? Weird... Maybe you should have taken a statistics course hahaha
+Oli Archy So your response to my statement that a college education is not necessary to being an intellectual human, is that I did not name enough people? You say I should study statistics? Hmm... very intelligent response
+JohnWaterhouse lmao college equates to intelligence... smh
"'Islam is not a race.' Don't nitpick stupid stuff like that." Bullshit! Islam is *not* a race, nor it is a country, it's an ideology and this was clearly stated by Mr Harris, "Islam is the motherload of _bad ideas_." At which point Mr Affleck plays the race card with gusto and enthusiasm. The more examples I see of your "liberalism" the better I feel about having unsubscribed.
its a religion fucktard. Zionism is an ideology.
Ruben de Groot Religion is ideology by definition. Not sure what motivation you had to call him a fucktard, but it does prove my suspicion that readiness to insult correlates with stupidity.
seblasian
In the conceptual sense, all religion is an ideology. But us people make a distinction between ideologies and religions most of the time. Why I called him a fucktard, is because all anti-islamist like to call islam an ideology, but dont apply that to judaism, christianity or other religions,
Ruben de Groot Still don't see a reason for the insult, especially if you weren't actually correcting him. But what you point out is food for thought; why do you make that distinction, and why do some insist on applying it to Islam and not other religions?
Think outside the box for a minute. Although Islamophobia is by definition not a form of racism, it definitely can be, when people associate an appearance with their own personal hatred for Muslims. For instance, I’m an atheist but because of the way I look I’ve been verbally assaulted many times with anti-Muslim slurs.
Dude, you call out the 20% number as being unsupported, claiming that Sam Harris doesn't have any polls to support what he said, but you stopped the clip right before the part where Sam Harris provides one of the polls that supports that number. What are you doing? You're supposed to be an intelligent thinker.
And Sam clearly said "arguably 20%" he didnt just throw the number out as factual.... He doesnt have to name a poll to support what he said because he let them know with one word that the #20% is only a matter of opinion, that one word being "arguably". He should have answered the question about what poll is that from..... like this Poll? fuckin my Poll i guess. I dont owe you an explanation of where it came from you jack off....I clearly said ITS ARGUABLE, DEBATABLE, MATTER OF OPINION, as I made the statement...
You think Cenk is an intellectual?? His Joe Rogan rants alone eliminate that possibility.
@@KillerBrees I used to feel like he was up until certain things like that he was saying.
Ok but didn't Cenk literally give some data himself? What are you doing, aren't you supposed to be rational and have some critical thinking skills for that level of arrogance?
@@KeanuReevolution Dude, it's been years...Cenk is an intellectually dishonest clown. That is all.
the audience claps and WOWs either way 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Different audience members
Good job missing the point
Ermm...it's not the Borg
There are no audience there😂😂its just audio of ppl clapping
Looking at that poll, the 20% number seems very reasonable.
+Sophovot
Except you have to take into account the countries in that poll have wildly different amounts of Muslims living in them. For example, the biggest Muslim population in terms of absolute numbers is the Indonesian one, and they were somewhere in the bottom half of the list. Afghanistan, which was at the top, has decidedly less Muslims living in it.
+Ahsim Nreiziev But even in Indonesia 71 per cent support Sharia. 71 per cent. Do you get how many millions of people that is, in just one country. And Indonesia is supposed to be the poster child for moderation ( and don't forget the fact that 95 per cent of all muslim girls have fgm in Indonesia too)
+Sophovot exactly my thought haha, Cenk is being very defensive it seems
+Owen Gavin i think hes concerned about clever people like Sam Harris saying clever correct things about reformations secularism which stupid people hear as a scientific reason to hate muslims
+Sophovot I was thinking that. Cenk showed his poll and I was thinking: "uhhh the average looks about 20%."
LOL
what type of religion threatens with death if you want to the leave the religion?
None....
+Mazlum Yalcinkaya Islam does!
That says it all. Case closed. Only an ignoramus (Afleck) admits it doesn't say it.
Mazlum Yalcinkaya It does.. Read the Quran & the Hadith.. Punishment for apostasy is death in Islam. You have been living under a rock... Read your scriptures before making a fool of yourself.
Quran!
"islam is the motherload of bad ideas"
this statement from sam doesn't in any way shape or form address any sort of people, it's a statement about ideas. if one says that christianity is stupid and dumb, then one is talking about the religion itself and not the people that are exercising it.
***** this is why i didn't mention maher.
***** i actually just wanted to clear things up. cenk also made the mistake of conflating islam as a religion with ("all") muslims when addressing sams quote "the motherload of bad ideas".
the point is that islam, as a religion, is dangerous. the people who subscribe to it may or may not be.
i don't think this short video is an accurate reflection of sam's position. he debated islam over and over again and actually never made statements like the one maher made.
***** if that religion is so "perfect" cherrypicking shouldnt be a problem. And there is no athiest agenda, just a bunch of people that are fed up with idiotic ideas ruling.
***** there is no misunderstanding amongst atheists. people just hear what they wanna hear.
what someone says:" islam is dangerous and dumb"
what someone else hears:" all muslims are dangerous and dumb"
you're right at one point. people often talk about things they don't understand. that's the case almost everywhere and regarding anything.
but here we have a comedian who is known for hyperbolism and a famous critic of religion, who debated hundreds of times on this topic and never said anything like this.
also on a sidenote:
to me, it doesn't really matter if all muslims practice their religion to the full extent (meaning jihad, blowing up busses and shit), or if 20% of all muslims or if only a single one does that.
the amount of people who practice this sort of behaviour should be zero.
But it's also horribly false. Islam is about peace, if you ask any non-extremist muslim.
@7:45 he never said over a billion people hold those pernicious views. Way to try twist his words..
If you watch the whole video Bill Maher was asking Ben Affleck "A billion people you say, all these billion people (Muslims) does not hold those pernicious beliefs?" then Ben Affleck corrected him saying 1.5 billion. He was in a sense saying all those Muslim hold pernicious beliefs. Then Ben Affleck responded him that he does not believes that all of them hold those beliefs only a minority then Bill Maher responded that is not true.
he says all Muslims are radical.
@@silvermane5695 No, you're doing the exact same thing Ben interpreted wrong. Bill is basically asking if not a single one of those billion people hold a single one of those beliefs, not if that billion as a whole has those beliefs.
@@Parragon77 Watch the whole video, he said it "All these billion people (Muslims) does not hold those pernicious beliefs?" you say...then Sam Harris pedalled back and said "I'm not saying all Muslims said that.." come on dude, really? LOL
@@silvermane5695 Nowhere in that quote does it say all those people hold those beliefs. It's literally just a question asking if every single one of them abstains from those beliefs.
This is SAD! You are straight up LYING!
+Niko Akaras The 20% number was also from PEW Stupid.
Ok. And where did you get the %99 statistics?
liam hunt All you need to do is go on and look at the monthly terror attack list for 2015 and calculate it yourself. Remember I said terror attacks that resulted in casualties.
+Niko Akaras yea thats based on what exavtly?
+Niko Akaras Oh, i forgot that if i copy something and paste it, that means its not real... -_-
Bill Maher did not say all Muslims hold those beliefs. Affleck said none of them do. Maher said some of them do, he didn't say all.
watch it again. he(bill maher) means it.
Sauske Dk
For the second time Chenk is lying Bill Maher did not say all Muslims. at 7:10 Affleck says "all billion point 5 Muslims don't hold any of those pernicious beliefs"
Maher says" That's just not true"
Chenk says, " That's the biggest problem right there Bill Maher saying no, over a billion Muslims, not a small minority, not even a significant minority. He might not have said literally but he meant all billion and a half Muslims hold those radical views."
This is nonsense Maher said no such thing. He said that Affleck was wrong to say none of them hold those views, which is a lie, and Mayer was just pointing it out.
So Affleck is lying. So is Chenk
suffist No Affleck said 1 billion. There are 1.6. Maher seems to think a majority are islamists
And Harris then claimed that 20% bullshit
You should go back to school and learn the English language you fucking imbecile.
Affleck didn't say none of them do...... He siad not all of them do. Are your ears broken? I don't think Maher meant that they all did either. I think it was a case of the phrasing being poor and they both misunderstood what they other was trying to say. Evidently you did too.
Is anybody on YT able to use their brains....
I love how Chenk completely cuts out the opposite side's argument to change it and responds as if that's the argument.
Right. I came here to listen to the debate, not Chenk. All I got here was this guy using a debate to drive the narrative he wanted.
Robby Frank if you wanted to see the actual debate you go to that vid ok?😂
this is 90% of what he does
Ah, you mean a straw man? Yep.
Robby Frank isn't that what they do?
What i learn as a muslim toward other religion is "supporting them is not allowed but respecting them is must"
COLE'S Play
And this sucks already.... illegal ?
Flavia Battista not allowed is probably what they meant
@@flaviabattista109 he mean forbidden. in religion
Illegal wtf😂😂😂
You are being a hypocrite in your own statement . How can you respect them and not support them ?
This is so smart from Affleck. By strongly rejecting any rights non-Muslims have to criticise Islam and making nice with all parts of the religion he ensures that the Islamists will never seek to harm him. In essence he has provided himself with an anti-terrorism shield rendering him immune to all explosions and attacks. After all, this is what happens when you appease bullies and not you know; the bully gets encouraged by your willing, cravenness.
Lmao go watch zeitgeist docu wake up
+Tr33fiddy Wow what a stupid assumption. If you are that scared of muslims go cringe down a cliff and die already. That's what they want anyway.
Bestivitiness rofl
Tr33fiddy srs watch zeitgeist. its what the government wants you to think, they make sure the focus of the problem goes to islam. because they are trying to hide that they are corrupt
Terra Nort rofl x2
Necro-posting here, but... Bill Maher was only disagreeing with Afleck's assertion that it was only a few people who believed bad ideas. Cenk seriously distorted what Bill actually said here.
Also, Cenk's equating declared warfare with assassination, murder, and anarchy in his argument.
Of course he did. That's Janks M.O. lie, distort, conflate, and speak with a glaring lisp.....
Chunk Yogurt is a professional liar.
@@nathanielnolt3518 war declared on a ruse of a country hoarding nuclear weapons and clones which will be used for pernicious purposes ( while being the only country to actually use nuclear weapons in war). This is not to say what going on in others is right. But us acts are still is more reprehensible just because of the sheer number of lives
If Sam Harris is right, that Islam is the 'motherload' of bad ideas, then Ben must represent our pc society, that refuses to stop a truly bad idea, even when it kamakazies into NYC's Two Towers. John 3:16
Ben, if you can't keep up with the conversation, you will have to sit at the kiddy table.
+Neanderthal 23 Its not really a conversation when Bill Maher is expressing bigotry.
MLGMagnesium Bill Maher is expressing facts. Islam is completely incompatible with Liberal values.
***** His facts aren't correct actually. He said that 90 percent of muslims in Egypt believe in the idea of death if you leave islam. As Cenk showed, that is false, its lower than 50 percent. Now is that a significant number, yes, but it shows that there isn't a majority support behind it. But hey, If Bill Maher is credible to you, go for it. But, I take facts via actual polls over the ones made up by comedians like Bill. :)
MLGMagnesium Wow, that makes me feel much better that it's less than 50%. I love how low our standards are that we think it ok when less than 50% of a population wants to murder us!
"Yea, they aren't all bad, less than 50% of them want to murder us" - Regressive left idiots of 2016.
+MLGMagnesium ,,, lol
I served in the Gulf War and Iraq, but I didn't find any of what people were talking about. They were ordinary people with semi-free thinking, and it wasn't the hostility that people were talking about
@Uditya Tyagi Yes every sentimental would do so . I support you . I am personally a secular religious. Even in INDIA we saw people were killed because of accusation of carrying Cow meat. LOL
@Uditya Tyagi OK rock believers
@Uditya Tyagi just please stop hating other religions please bro. I’m sickened with it. You don’t eat meat we don’t eat pork. You worship cow while we worship Muhammad as our prophet. Respect ✌🏻
They’re talking about the opposition to homosexuality/women’s rights in Islam.
@@TengahSleep what r u talking about we don't worship Muhammad .. Mohamad is prophet not a god we worship god only .. r u sure u r a Muslim ?
So why wasn't anyone talking about this 30 years ago ?
+Ayoub K Because these cunts were on their own island back then
+librazone Because now its the position that support the Power to go after muslims.
Not only 30 years ago but through out history it started lately because the middle east is targeted for its oil thats the whole deal
+ahmed chaibi no its because we weren't invading their societies and murdering innocent people 30 years ago. All of this crap started with PNAC about 20 years ago. This chaos in the ME was all planned mainly by rabid pro Israel Zionists in the US government. The plan was to take down 7 Islamic nations in 5 years. And for whose benefit ? Who else but Israel.
Isis is the fallout from instability caused in Syria, Lybia and Iraq by the USA and allies.
Remember, all religions are equally bad! That's why so many cartoonists fear for their lives when making fun of Jesus or the Catholic Church.
Oh.
Very well said.
SmithsnMoz I think that's the joke
SmithsnMoz
The Smiths are good but your sarcasm detector is off man lol
I would check out the reaction to "Life of Brian." released in 1979 when the UK was a lot less liberal.
What was the Christian reaction? Bearing in mind this was a full length feature film depicting someone getting mistaken for jesus with jesus appearing in the film intermittently? With Brian getting laid at one point? Getting crucified at the end of the film by mistake?
Christians made PEACEFUL protest and to my knowledge not one life was lost. Compare this to the baying blood thirsty mobs who killed over a hundred people as a response to the Danish cartoons.
SmithsnMoz "SCARCASM ALERT" for you , you stupid FUCK
Bill/Sam say Muslims, Cenk hears "all Muslims". Nice.
As usual. It's amazing to me how often Cenk is guilty of using the same Fox News tactics he bitches about all the time.
Bill/sam say Muslims, you hear what?
Agreed. When people make a generalized (notice "general" in that word means usually or most) statement, they mean to talk about a group in general. NOT ALL. Which is why I find it funny when people say "you can't make generalizations about all people of a group". Apparently they don't know what a generalization is.
Bill pretends he isn't bigoted against all Muslims, but has expressed his horror at the popularity of baby boys given the name Muhammad. That's not making a distinction between ordinary, non-violent Muslims and violent radical Muslims - it's bigotry towards the entire group.
Stephanie L Do you think you look cool holding a cigarette? You look like an idiot. When I see a smoker I see a weak-willed, insecure person.
Remember when Cenk was simi-reasonableness and not suffering from TDS
These were peaceful days lol
Take a chill pill, Affleck. This is why you and Superman starting throwing down!
Hahahahha
+Bill Proud
Superman is a monster!
He has to be stopped.
+luke666808g Yeah, gotta admit, the movie really made him look like a monster.
Your basing a actors role to a political argument... The maturity shows. 😏 if you're gonna argue with someone about something, at least come up with relevant arguments, instead of being stubborn... 😉
Yonas Mekonnen I think YOUR maturity shows because ur getting all highly strung about somebody making a joke
Am I supposed to believe that all of these people who disagree with Maher and Harris think Islam is full of good ideas? Kristof disagreed with Maher/Harris, then went on to admit that human rights activists are risking their lives by simply being human rights activists in countries molded around the principals of Islam. That is a totally asinine stance. Affleck also came off like an imbecile, with his snide, baseless remarks.
Also, there most certainly IS a difference between racism and bigotry, so stop muddying the waters and conflating terms. It's not nitpicking, and it's stupid to suggest it is. Cartoons depicting Mohammed resulted in worldwide riots, for starters. All the twisting in the world won't change that.
7:23 Bullshit. That's not what he said. Cenk is lying.
Nonsense, maher said things that are factually inaccurate, and the fact is that human rights workers are in danger all over the world, and many islamic countries are ruled by western backed dictators, but of course, you'd never think for one nanosecond that the DICTATOR or repressive government had ANYTHING to do with it, you'd say, like a true imbecile, that it's an inevitable, natural result of the infestation of muslims in the country, even though there are countries, like turkey, where human rights workers are in no danger, and that country is almost all muslim and not at all dictatorial or repressive. See? So islam HAS to be the problem and let's ignore politics, social conditions, and reality in general and just bash muslims because that makes us feel better about ourselves.
n8glenn All this coming from the person who told me that those who insult Islam should expect whatever happens to them. Kristof ADMITTED it. Go ahead and tell me how welcome Ayaan Hirsi Ali is in the Islamic world. When an Islamist hacks off a person head screaming about how God is Great, Islam is in fact involved whether you want to deny it or not.
elsquibbs
I didn't say that at all. I pointed out that when you insult people, and try to pick fights with them, sometimes they react badly, but you can't say that you're totally innocent in the affair. I also pointed out that most muslims would not try to hurt you for burning a quran, but some might, just like if you get up in church and burn a bible you might get beat down like a dog, or maybe not, but either way, you can't say you didn't ask for it.
elsquibbs
Now when some guy in ISIS hacks off somebody's head, he's not doing anything different than somebody dropping a bomb on a village, or committing any act of war, I mean, you've got to be kidding me, right? You think that ISIS is supposed to wage a war where they don't kill anybody?! You think that when erik prince goes to the middle east to exterminate muslims in the name of jesus it's better than when isis tries to kill people in the name of islam?! You think that because erik prince is violent, that makes all christians bad, or because isis is violent, that makes all muslims bad, or because the soviet union was violent, that makes all atheists bad?!
n8glenn Cartoons resulted in global riots. You choose how to react to people, so you only have yourself to blame when you react physically to words.
A wife beater doesn't get to blame his wife when he smacks her around. That's not how it works in the West.
Bill Maher's point completely flew over your head.
Paused this at 3 seconds when I realised it was a TYT video. Now I am going back to search for the same clip of Affleck but on a different channel.
Smart move 👍
Same. Cenk has the mental capacity of a bag of sand
How come circumcision is not counted as "genital mutilation"?
because it isnt thats was the dumbest question ever
+The dark shadows (Grim)
genital mutilation - permanent or temporary changes to Human sex Organs.
Yes it is, that was the dumbest response ever.
Hadda G It is not lmao removing the for skin of the penis doesn't damage anything at they removed mine so it isn't a problem at all all lol dumbest guy trying to comeback me
+The dark shadows (Grim) Doesn't make it any less genital mutilation. The foreskin has a purpose...
No not really tho
Ben Affleck seemed naïve and overly emotional. Bill Maher and Sam Harris are correct on this issue. Sam Harris took the time to explain the context of this exchange. It is worth reading -
www.samharris.org/blog/item/can-liberalism-be-saved-from-itself
Superman13195 That's ridiculous. If their religion is bad, war won't make it better. Maher and Harris most likely agree with Cenk's ending speech about education, winning their hearts and minds. Harris actually called for a reform of Islam and explained why refusal to admit that Islam is particularly toxic is detrimental to those efforts.
Superman13195 If Sam Harris' opinion is useless, then so is yours.
Superman13195 Sam Harris' opinion is that we need to enable Islamic reformation. Your opinion is that we need to enable Islamic reformation. If you both have the same opinion, and Sam Harris' opinion is useless, then so is yours.
Superman13195 You're going to need citations for all of those claims.
Now I'm convinced you're deliberately misrepresenting his opinions, stripping them of all nuance. It's the worst case of reductio ad absurdum I've ever seen.
Such a big intelligence gap between Harris and affleck .
Yea I did it purposly.
read Harris and Chomsky email exchange and you will find an even wider gap.
Grumpy Leprechaun he’s a fantastic writer with surprisingly consistent views. Although I find his work on language acquisition more interesting. I’ve always saw him as somewhat of an collective anarchist in some sense. I see what you mean, that does sound completely contradictory and I largely agree. But his views are clear in his writings and he makes a great deal of sense. And to suggest he is not very intelligent is being disingenuous on your part, I can only hope to assume you were being lighthearted.
That is an oxymoron, no one can be a libertarian socialist...
No it is common in Europe. You just don’t know what it means.
you can't call people dumb piece of shit then complain that they are spreading hate. You are spewing hate right now. And to people who didn't even mention it and couldn't be farther from the topic of it.
It’s because Ben Affleck is awesome. 👍🏽 And it’s because Ben Affleck is actually Batman. 😎And he has proved it today because he has probably studied Quran & other several thousand books and knows about Islam and finds it worth saving and worth standing up for.
You rock Ben ✊🏽 and Thank you for not caring about the crowd reaction. May Allah Almighty bless you.
affleck is an ignoramus, intellectually embarrassing himself in front of millions. stay in the gym, ben & please stay off the juice.
If Ben afleck stands for Islam he also stands for sexism(harassment) , oppression, their stupid laws and many other sad and cruel things.
"Religion of peace" my ass.
Your ass is too shitty
Yo!Sup? are women alowed to be rude in islam? i think you wouldve got stoned saying this to a man lol
Says the one with a Murderer as his profile pic lol
+Aurthur Pendragon
...to be honest - it is not so much shocking, that someone who is so idiotic, that he calls himself after a war-criminal, mass-murderer and psychopath - says this. It is rather, that so many people thumbed his comment up!
what you know about islam you ignoring shit..have you read or just listen what they want you to listen...idiot
10:30 "Sam says 20% of Muslims are radicalized, he made that up"
*Shows graph that confirms at least 20% are radical.
"So when you say all Muslims, that's not true!"
What???
bitch are u dumb
wigger bloke thank you brother❤
Mike May
👍
Yea, i didn't intend to bash you or anything. Just giving a different perspective.. Not that you couldn't figure this out yourself, but you might have only looked at it at a glance and not thought about all the factors in play.
The reason I replied to begin with is because people will like your original post and use it as defence for a biased opinion, when in fact they have not looked at the graph themselves. I bet people will continue to like it lol
Anywho, have a nice one
🚬😎💨🍻
+Mike May
It only adds up to 20% if you generalize about Muslims. Only 38,000 Muslims were surveyed, not the 1 billion that you think they surveyed. That is conservative thinking which is why the people who hate Islam are part of the regressive left. So we only get thousands of Muslims instead of millions of Muslims as the regressive left wants you to believe. And the regressive left is justifying a World War between Islam and the west. They don't want to mention that part of the discussion.
www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
+Mike May
So now you are censoring speech? You were pointing out that Sam Harris didn't say all Muslims. No one is saying all Muslims. All the people criticizing you are accurately pointing out the flaws in Sam Harris' argument. He is justifying a world war between Islam and the West, and thanks to enough of the Sam Harris fanboys voting for Donald Trump, we now have someone who could initiate that horrible policy, which liberals oppose .
Straight out of the gate Ben claims that criticism of the religion is racist... Criticizing a religion is not racism, hate or bigotry. All religions have bad ideas that should be criticized, calling people racists for doing so is just trying to avoid said criticism.
that s exactly the impression I got and it is quite disappointing to see cenk defending such nonsense. cheers
that is the issue you all fail to see. You claim it is religion's criticism which we all would be on board with, however you resort to making broad statements about every god damn person who belongs to that religion using stupid statistics that are not reflective of every damn one of those places. Are those religious ideas dominant within every muslim society that we can judge every muslim country the same? fuck no. But that does not seem to get sink in your heads due to your own messed up objective pursuing simplicity where it is not easily applicable.
jeremyshambles Yeah it is sad to see Cenk defending religion here. There seems to be no nuance when it comes to this topic. Of course not all Muslims are extremist, most of them aren't.
But there are a sizable number of people that take the religion so seriously as to oppress and kill because of it. And there are countries and military groups that are extreme. Of course we should criticize it.
And Cenks argument seems to be, "but Christians are as bad as them". Which is only a reason why we should criticize Christianity too (which both Sam and Bill does).
humbleyetarrogant I don't claim that every Muslim is an extremist or that every Muslim country is the same. But there are Muslims and Muslim countries that take their religion way too seriously and that seems to cause oppression and worse.
It's just as much a problem if you take Christianity, or most other religions of that matter, too seriously. No religion should be free from criticism.
big·ot·ry
ˈbiɡətrē/
noun
noun: bigotry; plural noun: bigotries
intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.
"the difficulties of combating prejudice and bigotry"
I'm muslim... I don't wanna blow myself up.. just for some reason... I just wanna spread peace and i wanna be myself.. I don't want to force others to follow my religion if they don't want to.. because it doesn't count... Idk what these guys are talking about with no knowledge of Islam also Kudos to Ben Affleck for Atleast defending it... The first line he said was true.. they don't have the knowledge of Islam how can they speak with/or against it... It's like proving science is wrong without knowing anything about it LOL
@@stomio6491 homophobia exist everywhere
Well that’s great man.. but you aren’t in agreement with the vast majority of Islam
Well said apart from the no knowledge of Islam. He literally states pew polls in the video with statistics of large scale polling of the Muslim world. Not sure if this was selective hearing but thought I’d circle that bit. Also as much as you’re a perfect example of the perfect Muslim. Sadly if 1 in 4 muslims in the uk think a cartoonist should be harmed for his ‘mocking’ of the prophet Muhammad then say that’s conservatively the view of the rest of muslims that’s over 300m people who think death or injury is fair if someone depicts the prophet poorly. Again I’m very glad you’re tolerant and not living by this commandment but sadly a large percentile of your brothers and sisters if not living by it agree it should be carried out that way.
I learned 2 things about Cenk from watching his videos.
1. He hates Christianity.
2. He loves Islam.
Yeah...I know right.....Makes NO sense.
+LJ B not exactly. He hates religion. but he doesn't believe in doing anything about that
+LJ B 3. He's whining SOB who pontificates out off his ass.
Brave Heart First off, no other news media that I've seen defends Islam and hates on christianity more than Cenk. (Not saying they aren't out there)
Second, I never judged or criticized him... I just claimed facts about him. I never even said I disliked him, nor did I imply it.
So, my question is this: Why are you so butt hurt?
+abdallaha92 If poll results and criticisms are attacks then I've been using that word wrong for years.
As a Muslim I can tell you that what taliban and ISIS is doing has nothing to do with Islam.
EDITED: all the people showing hate are actually proving the talibans right. Talibans are of the view that all non-muslims hate Muslims and whatever you do they will call you liars and hate you.
STOP PROVING THEM RIGHT.
peace and love.
Rogi Cizdima people created the sects. There is no concept of sects in Islam.
It is utterly ridiculous to try and claim that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. They may not represent the views of most Muslims, but whether you like it or not ISIS only exists in the way that they do because of Islam.
Jake Kennedy
Racist. You are doing it and yet denying it.
I am not a racist. Islam is not a race and even if it was I still wouldn't be a racist because I didn't say anything bad about it. I just told you the truth and you can't handle it. Sorry pal.
L
I like the comparison between culture and religion. I personally believe that religion is part of culture not vice versa. You can find different versions of the same religion if different cultures.
I also like the fact that you provided solutions like education, rather than banning the religion.
I hope to see more videos like this that give us solutions rather than encourage more hatred.
I predicted which side Cenk would fall on this and my prediction was right.
What's up with Jussie Smollett?
Nothing worse than Judaism. I am not kidding.
2:02 "The problem is when you conflate criticizing Islam with generalising about Muslims"
.......
Then proceeds to do exactly that:
3:43 (Sam Harris said) "Islam is the motherload of bad ideas"
4:07 (Cenk's response to Sam) "When you say 'Muslims' are particularly bad........" (then speaks about Muslims for ages)
Sam Harris was talking about Islam. Cenk just conflated Sam Harris' criticism of Islam as a criticism of Muslims lol.
yeah, totally stupid.
He’s right tho isn’t he
" 'Muslim extremism' is not extreme among Muslims. Mainstream Islam itself represents an extremist rejection of intellectual honesty, gender equality, secular politics and genuine pluralism. The truth about Islam is as politically incorrect as it is terrifying: Islam is all fringe and no center. "
__ Sam harris
Oh, he's so misunderstood guys. He's not a bigot.
yes because when some one criticis Islam it means criticsing all Muslims ( they all fallow islam .. then they simply say that Muslims fallowing a bad religion ) but if he criticize a group of bad Muslims then its not gonna effect the other innocent Muslims or the religion .. inconclusion they r criticize Islam religion .. because of the action of those few bad people not because of the book or the religion it self .. that's the problem .. its like saying Christianity is bad religion because i saw a Christian guy stealing money yesterday >> which is not Christianity's fault or Islam's fault >> the both religions doesn't support these actions so why blaming the religion .. blaming god for the action of the people is not gonna work in the judgment day
What about Judaism? Is not Sam Harris Jewish?
He clearly said "i know there is people bigoted against muslims and thats a problem, but we are talking about critisizing a bad idea, and islam is a motherload of bad ideas" Then Cenk goes on to say that "when you see muslims as particulary bad..." That's excactly waht he said in the beginning of the sentence! he was talking about islam as a bad idea, witch it clearly is like every other religion fundamentally is. And you just tippy-toed around it claiming he's accusing all the muslims. ffs...
Also you can't say that because we have a problem just like this elsewhere, we should not fix this. Just because fundamental christians are being idiots, doesn't mean we should let ISIS be. Also people like Dawkings is actively trying to eradicate this plague from the america, se we're doing something.
Bill marr is saying over a billion people are islamic so they hold islamic ideals. He's not saying every one of them is radical, just that they hold islamic ideals, which we just discussed, is a motherload of bad ideas.
2:01 He even warns the viewer about the possible conflation and then immediately does it himself as you pointed out.
wtf? bill maher didint say all muslims" ben affleck said " no muslims" so maybe he got lost in translation but thats what happened
This needs to be upvoted a lot. The guy makes a BIG point of this even thought the exact opposite of his point is treu.
Yea, Cenk completely missed the plot on that comment. Bill was questioning whether Ben thought none of those 1.0 to 1.5 billion "normal" Muslims had radical views, which idiot Ben, who's obviously never looked at a poll of the Muslim world in his life, claimed to be the case, at which point Bill said it wasn't. Clearly he was not saying ALL Muslims have radical views, but disputing Ben's ridiculous claim that none do (outside of actual radicals).
Its not muzlim, its muslim.
Its not Izlam, its Islam.
Learn to pronounce 'S' before speaking english.🙄
That's how Americans can pronounce it
Its not Muslim its delusion
Should not bully people for an impediment.
@@edwardbyrne1353 best comment!!!
I use Quran to wipe my ass..
If i'm wrong i'm wrong, just please answer. So if "most" of Islam is "non-fundamentalist" (which i assume Ben Affleck thinks most of Islamic country allow freedoms like the US) can you burn the Qur'an or a picture of Mohamed in public in any Muslim country without getting in trouble? And, I mean in trouble because you are defiling a religious identity, not arson or any other bullshit.
you get in trouble in the US also, TYT recently did a video about some 18ish year old who took a picture of a jesus statue giving him oral and he got in shit.
sorry but bullshit. Some douche bag is TRYING but he is not going to jail or facing charges.
Also, if the kid ends up with any charges, it HAS NOTHING to do with religion. They are pushing for standard public property charges.
You can burn the fucking American flag in the US and not go to jail. NO comparison.
A picture of Muhammad does not exist....
Literally all of your points are: "But Christians do it too!" Harris and Maher never said that Christianity is any better, neither would either of them say that. The point is that *religion enables these people to commit these atrocities*. It doesn't matter which fucking religion it is.
***** But that IS a point they both have made in the past. That Islam in and of itself is not only bad, but is worse than other religions. It's the worst. That's why Cenk is bringing in Christianity. Because Bill and Sam think that the religion itself (and therefore all the people who follow it) is the worst religion.
Simone Dethrow Yes but he makes the point that Christianity is no better as if Maher and Harris are apologists for Christianity, which if he paid any attention to Maher and Harris at all then he'd know that they're the opposite.
I don't actually agree that Islam as a religion is any worse than Christianity, but that doesn't make the guy bringing up Christianity any more relevant. Harris and Maher aren't saying that Christianity is good, in fact they barely mention Christianity at all, except to point out that it's gone through a reform that Islam hasn't, which is true.
Christians don't really follow the Bible, they eat bacon and shrimp, work on sundays, and lots of other stuff. The only thing they really focus on is gays, and they just protest they don't actually stone people to death. Muslims follow their book way more closely than Christians do, they DO still execute people (for witchcraft among other things). Both religions are violent, one group follows their religion more and so is more violent.
+Josh H Apparently you can write bestselling books and create full-length films utterly bashing the Christian religion, and STILL get called a Christian apologist if somebody hears you doing the same thing to Islam...
+Josh H exactly, I think he forgets that bill Maher and sam harris attack all religions equally.
If Islam is a religion of peace, doesn’t it follow that extremist would be MORE peaceful rather than more violent?
Josef what are you talking about?
@Son of Martha When on average 80 percent of British Muslims stated in multiple different polls that the Danish cartoonist should have been prosecuted- those are the cultural issues regarding women and homosexuals and freedom of speech that Harris was bringing up. Entirely relevant points.
That bias from TYT tho...
"USA goes to war so Islamic ideology is morally sound by western ideals" - seems legit.
Strawman after strawman after strawman
Reason why Turkey will never be European
SuperYoshikong turkey was close till it started been less secular they just celebrated their independence and founding last week but their founder wouldn't like what he would see today
Micah Carruthers Who was their founder?
The only mistake Sam Harris and Bill Maher made in this discussion is that they failed to come armed, for this specific discussion, with the actual proof backing their statements. That, in no way, invalidates what they say nor does it show that there never was any proof. Having seen Sam Harris (and Bill Maher) in many other articles, I know they can back up what they say. The presenter of the Young Turks show is actively misrepresenting them. It's simply concentrating on this particular episode of Maher's show and completely ignoring anything that has ever been said or shown before by Maher or Harris. It destroys debate if you force one side (and only one side) of the debate to continuously have to prove every single detail of what they say, every time they say it. Why is it that Harris and Maher are being required to prove what they say but Affleck isn't? Where's Affleck's proof that the majority of Muslims do not hold pernicious beliefs? He hasn't any proof of that during this debate so he must be wrong? Is that the level of debate we are on here Cenk? If one side of a debate must have producable evidence on them of every single point they make then that burden of proof must apply to the other side also.
If you want proof that there is a particular problem with Islam then just look at the undeniable fact that wherever there are Muslims in the world there is conflict and/or terrorism. This is simply not true of Christianity. Nor is it true of just about every other religion. Why? Because Christianity has been tempered by Secularism. Islam has not, by and large (perhaps with the exception of former Communist states) and Islam teaches Jihad. You have to go back centuries for other religions to be so indoctrinated in the concept of holy war.
Cenk is misusing polls and graphs here to try and prove his point. He picks one graph from Pew regarding the prevelance of the belief that apostasy should be punished by death in various Islamic countries. He concentrates on countries like Kazakhstan where only 4% of Muslims who believe Sharia Law should be the law of the land, think death is an appropriate punishment. You will notice that on that graph it is mostly the former communist states and other secularised countries that have low belief in the death penalty of apostasy. What I'm wondering though, is how he thinks this proves Muslims in those countries are just like you or me in the West? Just because many do not want you killed for apostasy does not mean they don't want you punished in some other (less final) way:
www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
That link gives further graphs, in addition to the one Cenk gives in the video and they don't paint Islam in a good light. I wonder what the percentage will be of American Christians, who believe that the Church should play a larger part on politics, believe apostasy should be punished by death? Go outside of America and the percentage amongst Christians who might believe that would be even smaller. The Church of England, for example, is so benign as to be practically pointless. Which is the point. It almost certainly is a minority of muslims who want to cause trouble against non-believers, but it is a far larger and more significant minority than is the case in other religions, which points to a particular problem with Islam.
What I saw in that discussion was an actor feeling uncomfortable discussing a difficult subject and resorting to the tired old tactic of makin wrongful accusations of bigotry. It is not impressive.
I agree with you on basically every point, and I would like to thank you particularly for that link.
Thank you for this comment. It is a calm and rational analysis of that segment.
Actually it does invalidate their statemebts
princeaizen No it doesn't - They still had an understanding of trends in the Islamic world. They just were not prepared to come in and cite exhaustive statistics.
Roach
Nor did Affleck give them a chance to with his constant interruption...
Cenk made a lot of mistakes, but here's two big ones --
1) Bill Maher: "A billion people you say? All these billion people don't hold any of those per -- [interrupted] -- don't hold these pernicious beliefs? I would..[mumbling and interruptions] - that's just not true, Ben."
Cenk Unger: "...Bill Maher saying, 'No, over a billion Muslims. All of them. Not a small minority. Not even, you know, a significant minority.' No, he said, 'That's not true. All of them hold those opinions.' He might not have literally said "all," but when Affleck talked about over a billion people, Maher said, 'That's not true, they do hold those - [babble] - over a billion people hold, what, radical views.'"
So, maybe Cenk missed it because of the interruption, and because Bill Maher worded it poorly, but Maher was clearly trying to say something like, "You don't think that out of a billion people [or a billion-five, as Affleck points out], there aren't any people who hold any of these pernicious views?" I think from context it's clear that this is what Maher was trying to say, which makes Cenk's further accusations that Maher and Harris were talking about "all Muslims," or nearly all Muslims, incorrect.
2) Sam Harris: “Just imagine some concentric circles here. You have at the center, you have Jihadists. These are people who wake up in the morning wanting to kill apostates, wanting to die trying. They believe in paradise, they believe in martyrdom. Outside of them we have Islamists. These are people who are just as convinced of martyrdom and paradise, and wanting to foist their religion on the rest of humanity. But they want to work within the system. They’re not going to blow themselves up on a bus. They want to change governments; they want to use democracy against itself. That, those two circles, arguably, are 20% of the Muslim world...”
Cenk Unger: “...but the negative way of addressing that is, ‘All Muslims believe this.’ And then based on that poll and a couple others I saw, I’ll make up a number of 20% who all are radical Islamists who would like to blow people up.”
So, this is just Cenk blatantly misrepresenting what Sam Harris has said. Not to mention that Affleck could have taken him up on the offer to talk about where the 20% figure came from, and he didn’t. We don’t know if Harris had a sound basis for the claim (although he addresses it a little in parts not shown here, but not enough to actually justify the 20% figure). Cenk turns around with one study on Muslim attitudes about the death penalty among various Muslim countries, and without doing any math regarding the sample sizes in question, he concludes the 20% figure is bullshit - also without any real foundation. Now, Sam Harris’s mistake was that he didn’t say what proportion of the 20% was the type to kill people, and which part were the hardline theocrats who were a threat to liberty. But I think it’s clear enough from context that he meant for the killing group to be a much smaller portion of the 20% than the hardline non-killers. After all, the killers were supposed to be the innermost circle of concentric circles; suggesting that the next (non-killing) circle outward is larger (duh). Cenk is just being deliberately uncharitable and misleading in interpreting Harris’s argument. He does this with Maher and Harris's statements all through the video in order to wrongly portray them as saying that all Muslims are violent extremists.
This video does such a good job at completely derailing the context and intents in the real video of Bill Maher and Sam Harris. Lost a lot of respect with one.
7:30 he didn’t say “all” are jihadists. He was saying *some* are jihadists
You should expect this, TYT is "liberal" so they'll try to twist words as they want to defend islam
@@hujintao3027 watch the whole clip buddy
7:00
@@hujintao3027 Also defend islam from who ?
Western countries have already tore the middle east when they were funding wahabism and Islamic Fundamental to get some cheap oil, you destroyed whole countries for your own greed
@@hooby7045 You should really look at what the governments in the Middle East does before you just blame Westerners. The governments in the Middle East take people's homes/ businesses and sell them to foreign countries Like China, UK. Do you think the uprising in Egypt happened because of what? People couldn’t find jobs. They were taking their businesses and selling it to foreign countries under the emergency law.
@@missmina5696 I already know US funded Middle Eastern governments are trash. I have every right to blame the US, I'm an Iraqi. The Iraq war started because of lies
ohh the anchor is ex-muslim, I thought he was Latino
Same!
His name is cenk that is a common turkish name
lol Muslim is a religion. Latino is a race. It is possible to be a Muslim Latino
Cenk is always Latino
Looks like the guy that cuts my lawn to pay for his lowrider
Sam Harris is an intellectual train wreck.
Lol... How naive of you to say so. Go read a book or two instead of trying to hang around with the big boys.
Anomalous AP Lol his book is for the mentally deficient you slobbering neanderthal.
He misrepresented literally every single argument made by Maher/Harris. I actually feel like I’ve regressed intellectually after watching this. Why is this even a show? I want my 24 minutes back.
Thank you. I have just begun watching it and I am gonna stop as soon as I finish writing the comment.
Ajay Choudhary ok , good bye
If facts are racist and disgusting, then ya I guess he's right.
it's not facts
it's no a fact just becuz he said it's a fact
90% of muslims think that muslims who leaves islam should be dead
that's ridiculous
im muslim
and i can assure u that 98% of muslims ar totally against that
If someone wants to be a muslim what should he believe in ?
Exactly! He said its a fact ? Show us the proof
If you want to be a muslim or somone does Learn the Teachings of islam on YOUR own Do not use the internet Do not understand it from somone else learn it on your own
Read the bible with it's three headed dragons and unicorns. Islam needs reform but don't say that all of them are like that.
Affleck will go down as one of the biggest fools in history
to you maybe. He's the opposite of a fool to me
jake thomp How so? Please explain
Koen van Amerongen Well everything he said here was spot on.
And I've seen his interviews. He seems very intelligent and funny.
jake thomp That's not an explanation.
Here's what happened at Maher's show back then:
Harris tries to have an honest and productive conversation about islam. He talks about how many muslims around the world have quite anti-liberal ideas, according to Pew Research polls. And then some ignorant dipshit in the hollywood asskissing circuit calls Harris a 'racist'. Harris didn't say anything that was racist or inaccurate
Koen van Amerongen Actually i saw this whole thing as well and Ben (as a said) was spot on.
Also (as seen in TYT video above) Harris was inaccurate.
Sometimes I watch TYT to understand the skill of framing a narrative. Also a great workshop in reinforcing flawed logic.
He didn't say Muslims where particularly bad, he said Islam. The ideology not the people.
With Wilk No, neither is bad. Certain people make it bad, ISIS are terrible. You won’t ever get it, you’re gonna burn in hell, remember my words!
@@catsfirst Telling others to go to hell...is not bad?
Nothing worse than Judaism. I am not kidding.
Who gives a shit what Ben Affleck says?
Because he is Batman!
you because you are here :)
+Kris Bendix lol
Who cares what Sam Harris has to say?
+Chris Grabenhorst Sam Harris is educated and has examined this subject in many years. Of course we should at least consider his arguments
So Cenk totally misrepresents Sam Harris's statements/arguments here and Affleck is an idiot. People, do yourselves a favour and watch the original clip without that Cenk editing/bias.
CORRECT!
He's picking bits and pieces just to stir an issue.
The main point was that LIBERALS WERE LOSING BECAUSE OF THEY FAILED TO ADDRESS ISSUES THAT REALLY MATTER TO LIBERAL PRINCIPLES.
It was not about generalizing against Muslims. It was about calling out the bad ideas in Islam. Affleck then overreacted and skewed the discussion.
11:20 again...he never said “all” Muslims
" 'Muslim extremism' is not extreme among Muslims. Mainstream Islam itself represents an extremist rejection of intellectual honesty, gender equality, secular politics and genuine pluralism. The truth about Islam is as politically incorrect as it is terrifying: Islam is all fringe and no center. "
__ Sam harris
Just because bigots can play on words and not always explicitly utter phrases that can be 100% used to condemn them, it doesn't mean that we cannot deduce what their ideas entail especially when they made them clear on a couple of occasions and got a bad reputation cause of it.
People hear what they want....
Islam is the truth. N Islam always wins. Islam saved the world. Islam preserved knowledge from book burning christians and saved the world by defeating Mongols
Chenk doesn't use logic in his arguments, just generalities to disavow anyone who he doesn't agree with.
white ppl are the ones with no logic criticizing Sharia law, a law that worked for centuries unlike ur western shit
@@brownasiankid1782 racist
One of the most common formulas in a tyt video is as follows:
Part 1) 30 seconds of Cenk describing how he couldn't possibly be pro Islam due to the fact that he left the Muslim religion.
Part 2) 25 minutes of Cenk defending the Muslim religion.
lastcupofsorrow1 Defending a religion for the sake of the religion is fine. What Cenk is doing here is much worse: he’s defending a religion for the sake of political correctness under the pretense that it’s for the religion. He knows damn well the rotten ideas of the religion (hence, i assume, why he left), yet he is scared of seeming critical to his followers in PC fantasyland.
Dev In You don't see your own bias buddy that's why you always think Cenk is wrong.
Farhia Hussein I admit I have a bias towards Cenk, yes, but I always maintain open mind and hear the whole argument. What Cenk said here makes no sense and contributes no rebuttal towards Harris’ argument against radical Islam.
Maybe it was acting to make people more aware . Bill and Sam were in on it. Ben can't be that dum.
I agree with Cenk on much...but not all.
I consider myself a liberal, but I can't agree with Cenk on this one. It seems to me that most modern day liberals have an unwillingness to criticize the reactionary aspects or expressions of other cultures, expressions that these liberals would have no hesitation whatsover in criticizing if they were exhibited by, say, Southern white Christians.
Well that's why they fail so badly on this issue. Now I myself am not a liberal nor am I a conservative, I try and stay as objective as possible. and objectively speaking, most of the time when we see Christianity at it's worst, it's the Westboro Baptist Church picketing a funeral making homophobic remarks. With Islam, it's beheading, suicide bombings, mass murder, genital mutilation, ect. It's not an effective point to say "Hey wait a minuet, look at how bad fundamentalist Christianity is." Yeah it's bad, But I don' think anybody's really afraid that a wbc member is going to walk up to them one day and chop their head off.
Corey Jones Exactly. Great point.
Corey Jones and to be accurate, wbc and fundamentalist Islamic groups follow the letter of the scriptures in their supposed "holy books" more closely than any other followers of those religions. this is what harris and maher are criticizing. these "holy" texts give justification to such behavior and thus ensure the prevalence of such blights on civilization.
Mr Affleck, thank you for having compassion and courage ❤
And being dumb as a sack of rocks
@MohammedwasAPedophile cringe comment bro
That chart that Cenk showed at 11:05 pretty much proves Harris' point and Cenk doesn't even realize it. You'd have to take into account the populations of each of those countries but the average percentage seems to be right around the 20% mark. I mean Pakistan plus Afghanistan plus Egypt is 300 million people. People keep bringing up Indonesia as if two billion people lived there or something. There are almost as much people in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Egypt who think apostates should be killed (196 million) than there are people in Indonesia who don't (219 million). So ya, this isn't something to brush under the rug as a tiny minority. It's hundreds of millions of people who hold some incredibly stupid and dangerous beliefs that stem from their religion.
Also, in case you were keeping score, 20% of a 1.5 billion is 300 million. In just three countries: Egypt, Pakistan and Afghanistan 196 million people think apostates should be killed. So that 20% mark is not made up as Cenk so stupidly implied.
PS: I was just doing a quick calculation so I assumed all people in those countries I mentioned are Muslim which isn't correct. So in the interest of openness and honesty my figures are slightly inflated. I don't feel like doing the actual calculations for a youtube comment probably nobody will actually read, so this is just a rough estimate.
Agreed. If anything, the actual percentage is even higher than 20%, seeing as major pro-death penalty countries aren't even on the list: Saudi Arabia (~30 million), Iran (~77 million), and Nigeria (~176 million) - all of which polls show have 50+% approval for an apostasy death penalty! Even without them, with Bangladesh (~156 million people) at 38% added, the "big three" of Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Egypt, easily outweigh the "moderates" in Turkey and Indonesia.
HerrRoehrich That's a good point. I noticed Iran wasn't there but totally forgot about Saudi Arabia or some of the majority Muslim countries in Africa. Indeed, the percentage could easily be more than 20 and yet some people just refuse to accept the reality of the situation.
I also love how Cenk points out countries in which ''only 10%'' believe in the death penalty for apostasy as though 10% is not a fucking GIANT number of people. Let's imagine that 10% of Christians in the USA believed in the death penalty for apostasy - can you imagine how fucking outraged Cenk would be? Does anyone really think that he'd be saying ''well, 90% of American Christians DON'T believe in that so let's all calm down''?
Ya the problem with your quick math is you are miss leaded by wrong numbers and you add to those errors MORE errors and you put the life of a lot of peoples on the line here .. ANy way you are Brainwashed little useless shit who need to open a fucking book and educate your soon to be sorry ass WUSSIE boy
HerrRoehrich There is no death penalty for Apostasy in Nigeria.
Sam Harris is a genius who has studied this stuff for years. He says its the motherload of bad ideas because it fucking is! You don't see modern Christians doing the things that modern Muslims are doing. And even so Sam is no stranger to ripping apart Christians either. This guy knows his shit, I mean he's a decorated neuroscientist with a tremendous amount of insight for fuck sake. Who the fuck is Ben Affleck but a second choice for bat man? Sam Harris has got more knowledge and intelligence in his pinky than anyone else at that table combined. Cenk is so wrong here, unbelievably wrong. Like how many times are you gonna straw man his arguments. Cenk is a smart man but I find it hard to believe that he is really this incapable of understanding what Harris is trying to say. Sam clearly is not generalizing all Muslim, he is criticizing the belief system and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that because the belief system fucking sucks. He's not saying anything about Muslims that he wouldn't say about Christians.
does Sam harris know the arabic language? does he know the qur'an and the bible word for word like the back of his hand? no? then your entire argument falls apart bud. more knowledge than a full full fledged Muslim my ass.
SIRcrapsalot McCummingtons
Omg have you read the whole bible??? Do you speak full latin? Sorry your argument fails, you can't criticize the pope when he covers up child rape...
got a question,how do u know that everything sam harris said are true?
Sims3loser, The Awkward Simmer Thats completely different on the one hand your criticizing an entire group of people because of their beliefs (muslims) and are stating that the religion itself is inherently wrong when you actually no nothing about it. On the other hand your criticizing individuals (the pope) for their actions and not their beliefs. Its perfectly okay to criticize muslims who behead people, but its not okay to conflate all muslims with this image. No rational person thinks all catholics rape children.
how is that region a motherload of bad ideas, when we created and funded most of the hardline terrorists because we couldn't stand socialism????
It's a case of chickens coming back home to roost.
Here you had 2 rational men discussing a topic that gets very little coverage on tv and on the opposite side an immature man-child who has spent his life surrounded by people that agree with him and reassure every one of his beliefs, because they dont dare challenge him due to his status.
Shows like Maher should really get celebrities out of the studio as soon as any important topic is hit, in years of show watching and clip binging on youtube I have NEVER seen an actor or singer or celebrity coming up with a comment on a topic that wasnt either completely wrong, superficial or just saying anything even remotely interesting.
Ben Affleck feel concerned and devastated to hear such an islamophobia words , bc hey we are same
It’s not Islamophobia to criticise Islam, which is what Harris and Maher were doing. Ben Affleck didn’t really have much of a point here at all, and if you think he did you need to reconsider what you deem to be an effective argument.
Bruce S maybe so, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is a bad idea and has terrible consequences around the world
@Bruce S i cringed so hard reading your comment
As a journalist, try the exact same thing with Judaism and we will talk about it later. But for now you obviously don't know what you are talking about.
Mamadou Keita yes, well while agree that the Torah contains just as vulgur material as the Quran, that doesn’t change the fact that there are no countries with law based entirely upon Judaism, while there are 15 countries that operate under the basis of Sharia law.
wow the amount of racism in this video makes me want to cry
They sound like whining little children, it's like they are acting and it's like they are bribed to talk like that really.
Nweezey123 would you please be polite i understand its not a race people make mistakes sheeesh
4:09 "when you say Muslims are particularly bad" - but that is not what he said, did he? He said Islam (the religion) has a lot of bad ideas.
7:20 - you are misquoting Bill Maher. "All those billion people don't hold any of those beliefs?" Ben Affleck: "No." I.e., Ben Affleck appears to say that none of the billion people hold any of those beliefs, or at most only a very small portion of them. "That's just not true Ben" - i.e., at least some of the billion people (more than a very small portion) hold at least some of the pernicious beliefs. You translate that as "Those billion Muslims. All of them." That is just very poor journalism Cenk. Listen to the tape again.
It appears that actually you agree with Bill Maher -- there is a significant minority of Muslims who do hold pernicious beliefs 'no one understands the dangers than I do.'
11:29, if you did a weighted average of that plot, it wouldn't be that far off from 20%, is it? Of course supporting the death penalty for apostasy is not the best metric for the Islamists Sam Harris was talking about, but it is a useful first approximation, right? I also don't know what particular poll numbers SH based his 20% on but I'm guessing he just used a bunch of similar polls and averaged them roughly to get a round number. Not great technique, but he did say 'a bunch of poll numbers that we can talk about' and apparently Ben Affleck was not really interested in talking about them, instead continuing his accusations of racism.
12:20, he actually specifically said they are not interested in blowing people up, instead trying to use democracy against itself. Could you please listen to what he said before you misquote him?
13:28, when did Maher ever say that everyone in Indonesia does it? He just said that there will be death threats from Islam but not from Christianity (or at least significantly more death threats from Islam than Christianity). I would say that the truth of this claim is almost self-evident. We had a crucifix put in pee, right? How many embassies were raided by Christians as a result of that (compare to the Danish cartoons)?
PEOPLE GENERALIZE ABOUT ISLAM ALL THE TIME.
As a woman, how can you believe or defend your so called religion or cult? Islamic law does not consider women mentally or legally the equal of males. Additionally, children are perceived as the "substance of the male" and merely incubated by the female body. In the case of divorce, women lose all custody of children. Are you that stupid???
Arthur Harper I could go through the Christian bible right now and read some passages as to how woman and children should be treated. So should I judge all Christians on that?
Girl, Sam Harris bases his opinons on polls he took. It aint a generalisation, he quotes the polls as is. Apparently he found a significant chunk of population agreeing with some terrorists actions even though they aint terrorists themselves. That is Sam's point- the fundamentalist ideology is far more spread than the actual fundamentalists themselves.
freedom1322009101 the point is not how we definite the koran or the bible (books were writing a very long time ago) the point is how much fits this attitude to the year 2014.
Hans Thorsen like I said... you can't diskuss with people who justify everything "what happen hundreds of years ago".
It’s interesting how the majority of times people like Sam Harris critique Islam there are no Muslim people present to defend it. I’m glad Affleck spoke up when he didn’t have to.
Cenk, this was really bad. You grossly misrepresented Maher's and Harris' position and called them bigots for it. Regardless of whether this is merely a failure to comprehend on your part or if it was deliberately dishonest, you owe your audience an apology.
I really sad of how Islam is talked about, I m muslim. and from I know, Islam is a way of bringing peace to the world. An education of how living in sustainable way, balancing our connection with Allah, human, and nature. it s also the Christian mission right and all thse religions. the problem is when its happened a friction from these all group of population that strict to "you re different with me than you re wrong".Its better to educate the population that there it is the different of human in this world.
Mehdi from Morocco
Islam is the death cult ruled by satan.
***** Um, yes, centuries ago, the Catholic Church was dangerous...which is why England broke away from it and created the Church of England because it was tired of the Catholic Church having control over everything. Ever since then, and nations moving away from using religion in their policies, everything has gotten way better.
Your comments about this technologically advanced Arabia that had developed superpowers is funny...what did they do right if they went from that to being one of the least technologically advanced areas in the world, as well as very smelly, dirty, illiterate and murderous?
Oh yeah, Islam sure did wonderful things for them...because look how great they are doing.
No Islam isn't a peaceful religion. It's always been an evil religion of hate, war, death etc.
Sam- people are trying to crush criticism of Islam by claiming that anything negative spoken is bigotry.
Ben- You racist!
Thank you Ben for proving his point.
ben is bringing up racism because it is a generalization of a group of people,
just like judging all muslims. you're smart enough to understand that, right?
nope.
sk8bow Yes I understand and I think its bullshit. You cant call yourself by a term that's very purpose is to be a generalized label and then try an pick and choose the stigma that comes with it. The only difference between a ‘moderate Muslim’ and a ‘fundamentalist’ one is one takes their bullshit literally. They are both 'Muslims' and the crap about women being inferior and direct commands to kill people who disagree with you is still there.
Sam- I'm not generallizing all Muslim... now all muslism want to do evil things both are true at once without contradictions.
darkblood626
so tell us, what do you want to tell muslims? what do you want to correct? let us know.
darkblood626 You just described the very premises of a hasty generalization fallacy.
How are women treated in Indonesia?. Have they ever had a female head of state?. Indonesia has after all the largest Muslim population in the world.
You shouldn't take pride in being illogical, that's what bigots do.
Islam... Christians... all the same to me. Each of these religions shouts that they are a religion of peace, Jains are the religion of peace.
Ben Affleck was wrong. I'm glad he freaked out though so discourse on this subject can begin in the public. Criticizing a religion, is NOT RACIST. A religion is not a person, it does not have a skin color, it is a set of ideas and doctrines, all of which should be logically scrutinized by anyone subjected to them.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
I totally agree with you David. Obviously Ben Afflek doesn't seem to know the difference between someone's race and someone's religion.
people use the word racist for lack of a better word dumbass
I agree with you, hating on a religion isn't racist. Hating a group of people is, so the people practicing the religion being hated on would be racist, not the religion itself.
Educated BlackMan ya ya ya the most brutal muslim country is sauidi arabia and we give them money everyday this might sound like a talking line but its the truth just go look at some shit they do they cut peoples heads off for next to nothing literally because of sharia law and somehow its ok for them to cause they sell us oil
ABSOLUTELY LOVE BEN AFFLECK
Not much of a thinker, are you?
*****
Well look at her (;
Jokes. But yeah, he's decent sometimes but he started off giving off a bad impression this session.
***** Haha because I love Ben Affleck and his political ideology?
Sara Hightree
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
I thought it would be sufficient to imply it, but it turns out my first statement was truer than I anticipated.
Sara Hightree
Because you presuambly wrote "I love Ben Affleck" after watching this specific segment. Hopefully, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you watched the ENTIRE video. But even IF you did, you would understand that his view on this matter was off point. He isn't a horrible person or anything, he was just NOT thinking and not listening THIS time.
The third possibility is that you simply wrote the comment due to the fact that you saw a video clip of him... and I guess this would be the most innocent alternative.
How's that.
So many people have an agenda that they’re trying to defend based on something they have chosen to believe.
This makes it very difficult to take in new information and objectivity view the topic.
Choose to believe? We choose to believe we are apes or are we apes?
Ben is like superman, I love him. but I don't think he quite understood what they were talking about.
Oh god it must be enormously frustrating to be Sam right now. Ben took up all the airtime at the show with his irrational irritation over a position Sam never defended to begin with. Now Cenk does the same thing all over. LISTEN to what Sam is actually saying, watch his debates read his writings. It's painful to watch TYT misrepresent him this way.
Sam Harris has more brains than Chenk and Affleck put together.