Members of the Cike either end up dead or in the Mountain, and I loved that Kuang didn’t make Rin immune to that. War is incredibly messy, and Rin knew from the begging how her story would end.
Kitay is just as murderous and vengeful as Rin is. I think it’s harder to notice because he spends most of his time hiding behind an air of civility, but he has his moments too
Kitay enabled Rin. And I don't believe he didn't know what she was doing. He also needed an outlet for the rage inside him. Nezha was probably the only person there who didn't grow a sense of blood lust. He was a traitor to his friends and in a sense, to his own country, but to leave him with everything just felt perfect. It was his worst case scenario.
Thank you for clearing this up for people, it frustrates me to no end people criticizing this book for things it was never trying do. It's a historical fantasy and it's showing the tragic side effects of war, its not supposed to make you feel better it's supposed to inform you.
ok literally WHO reads the downward spiral Rin has throughout the entire series, ESPECIALLY Burning God and thinks she will be happy? She has trauma in Dragon Republic and that's before... A LOT happened. It spirals and she's paranoid of everyone and everything, love her as a character, but she/her gov would never last. Also her not trusting Venka is totally valid since like every "part" of the Poppy War trilogy books ends with Rin being betrayed by someone/some group like 9/10. She'd been betrayed so many times by that point that ofc she's going to be paranoid and not trust anyone (still half and half on whether I trust Venka or not buuuut). also Altan being villainous??? Rin nuked a whole country and we could start a list of awful things Nezha did.
Yea the ending of Rin’s story was predictable from book 2. While predictability is usually not a good thing, there is no other way her story could’ve ended. It shows the inevitability of the path Rin shows to go down. There is no way for the country to move on from the tragedy it endured if Rin continued to live. She would burn her own people to the ground to get what she wanted.
I agree, the ending was was perfect. I believe Nezha was the best ruler. Rin wasn't supposed to rule, she was supposed to FIGHT. Although her dying hurts, it was the real solution. 💔💔
The ending broke me, but I totally get why it had to happen. Did I want want a happily ever after for the three of them yes? Because that's the wishful thinking but from the beginning we've seen that Rin doesn't know what she wants in the "after" so it was perfect that she didn't know what to do after the war got over.
Loved this! I really liked your point about revolutions and how they tend to fail. So often it is reactionary (which like fair, given why most attempted revolutions come about), but not a lot of thought goes into the after. The focus is so heavily on dismantling the current power structure and trying to survive, that it sometimes leaves no room for thinking about the after. And now with hindsight, I feel like Rebecca Kuang was hinting at the ending throughout the series. Rin is so focused on surviving and pushing forward, and whenever she is confronted with the question of “what happens after”, whether that pertains to the consequences of her actions or what the country will look like, she routinely pushes it to the side. Anyways, a great conclusion to the series and great vid as well!
yess absolutely! i reread TPW right after finishing TBG and honestly it was even better the second time around, the way she set things up from book 1 was just so well done! thank you so much for watching 💕💕
No joke! He's just as dark but won't admit it to himself. Every time he's confronted with it, he's genuinely horrified partially because these things would horrify anyone, but also because he won't look at himself in his entirety. He's walking denial
I agree with everything you said! Also rin would have been a terrible leader, i think it made since for her to be suspicious of kitay and venka towards the end cause she’s been betrayed by anyone she trusted.
If Rin didn't die at the end, the book would have just felt... dirty. I don't know how else to describe it. Didn't you feel the wrongness in the air from the start of the book? Especially in the last leg of the journey? I understand where Rin came from, Kuang did a great job of taking us through that journey, but Rin's atrocities could not go unpunished. Even if Kuang deviated from history more and let Rin have her truly independent Nikan, the only Rin that would have worked would have been a Rin who was completely lost to us. Crazy. And she would have went on that unending crusade at the end of the book, perhaps closing as she set off as a woman destroyed by war. It would have a very grim tone as well. There was no possible scenario where Rin was allowed to survive and rule. It was a great ending, and Rin got to do something heroic on her way out.
i definitely also agree that it's the perfect ending for the series! it's painful for sure, but the reasoning for why rebecca wrote it that way (when you understand the cultural and historical context) makes sense. the KMT ruled as a military dictatorship when they moved over to Taiwan, effectively oppressing a lot of the native Taiwanese there. great discussion, tammie!
As a Taiwanese, I have something to say ,After the republic of China lost the war in , they flee to Taiwan,and the government is super corrupted( the main reason why they lose in China)Taiwanese people fought for decades to have democracy . It’s also the reason why I love the book, Rebecca wrote it so well,she didn’t rally have villain in this series ( in my opinion)
Yeah I definitely had an oh no moment with the ending and then the more I sat with it the more it made sense because like you mentioned it wouldn't have mad sense for rin to destroy the Hesperians and it all to just be good bc the destruction this war has had will have repercussions. And yes the fact that Nezha is the one that has to deal with it all just made sense too after thinking about it.
Definitely agree, I think anyone who thought we would get a happy ending were being far too optimistic! I also agree with you saying that Rin is not a peace time leader, and I think R.F Kuang shows that through Rin's enjoyment of battle, and especially towards the end. I felt like Rin was overwhelmed by the hunger and devastation of the people and turned on Venka and Kitay as a way to create conflict, because conflict is all she knows, and she simply doesn't know to live without it. Loved the series, and can't wait to have more spoilery chats with people!
Points were made and I agreed with what you said about expectations. We’re so used to one type of story being told from one people’s perspective and that skews our perception of what a good story is. Amazing video as always my love 🔥🔥🔥
I completely agree with everything you said! I think in many fantasy books, war is depicted with a degree of romanticism; the underdog realises their self worth and comes out on top, avenging themselves, crushing their enemy underfoot, and somehow also managing to find the love of their life all at the same time. It’s all parcelled up nicely and justified with some cute inspirational message about how you can do anything if you believe in yourself, etc. People want a little discomfort and suffering for their protagonist, but also the assurance that all will be well in the end. R.F Kuang showed history without spinning a sparkly fairy tale out of it, and I think that’s the best thing she could’ve done as an author. Some downsides though: I was a bit miffed about the anticlimactic end to the Trifecta. All that build up to... nothing really. We never even got to see Riga in action properly. Also maybe I’m just dumb but I didn’t really understand what happened between the Trifecta and Hanelai. I’m gonna need someone to spell it out for me 😅
i agree about the trifecta! i would've loved to see more of them, and i'm secretly hoping that one day she'll write a prequel about them 😅 i don't fully remember what happened with them and hanelai, i just remember that it was hinted at that hanelai and jiang might be rin's parents?
A lot of points that were brought up definitely highlighted once again how much TPW trilogy draws from history. Also, the ending was perfect, anything else probably would have felt like a cop-out. I agree that TPW as a trilogy never set to dismantle colourism, but I think what gave me pause about it in terms of Rin was her descent to paranoia could be seen as being a Speerly-thing (even with the historical context of her character). The dehumanisation of Speerlies and by extension dark-skin characters is something TPW trilogy never shies away from. While this reads true to real-life; at a point of reading TBG and Rin's descent in Part 3, it felt like part of Rin's inability to make sound decisions arose from the fact that she can't run away from being Speerly. That by Rin being Speerly it meant that all she was good for to anyone was to be a weapon and therefore wasn't seen as a person. We see this theme often in the TPW trilogy. However, without another dark-skin character (as dark as Rin) humanised and not dead; Rin's downfall may read as an effect of her being Speerly rather than her just having to live with her terrible decisions. Especially if we look at the language used by other characters to talk about Speer and Speerlies. I probably wouldn't apply this to Altan because I kind of read him as more of an extension of Rin's subconscious especially because we see him mostly through Rin's eyes. Sorry if this is rambly and long, but I think this is why I was kind of disappointed with how colourism was handled even if the TPW never set out to dismantle it. This is just one darker-skin, South Asian person's view; so I could be wrong with the above interpretation.
no need to apologize at all, i loved getting your perspective on this! i think for me personally, i felt like even though rin was dehumanized by the other characters, she was never dehumanized to me as a reader, though i do realize i am biased here because i have always related to rin on a very personal level. i think i also fundamentally have always seen her connection to speer as somewhat superficial (the whole nature vs nurture thing), so i didn't quite catch the connection between her heritage and how that tied into her actions, so i really appreciate you pointing these issues out! i definitely see your point and think that is a totally valid interpretation, and completely understand why you were disappointed. thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts as well!
@@tammietriestoread Thank you for replying to my very messy comment. While I never want to take away from the amazing impact TPW trilogy has had. I do think expecting one person, especially a non-white author, to perfectly deal with every part of a culture and its impacts aren't feasible. TPW trilogy did so well in pointing out that history isn't very uncomfortable and how that doesn't mean we get to shy away from it. I am glad that we are getting better Asian representation more often, it has taken such a long time, and every win is important.
would it be a burning god chat if there wasn't chaos involved? LOL i loved watching this and hearing your thoughts. i 100% agree that many ppl, including myself, went in with certain expectations. i even KNEW rin's character inspirations and some of the historical context and my brain still couldn't compute the ending. with that being said, when i reread the series i know that i am going to love the book and the ending since i now know what happens beforehand.
hey I loved the video! on venka, she was sus from the moment she missed MULTIPLE shots fired at nezha at the end of tdr (while she supposedly never misses). I had a theory that maybe nezha asked her to look after rin like in a way loving way (at least at first)? idk it's probably really naive haha but then it would make sense why venka actually cared about rin's wellbeing, helped her win successful battles, and so on while having close ties to nezha.
The thing about the endind was the way Rin suffered at the end of her jouney, she won the war but it only made her life more miserable, the constant fear of treason while living on Aarlong, the death of Venka, the famine, the southerns who were supposed to support her but turned against her, she spiraled into despair not even trusting Kitai... but what you said is right, this book is grimmdark fantasy so if I wanted a happy ending I'm shopping in the wrong store... I still feel pretty bad for Rin, she really grew on me
This book is FULL of dilemmas so I'm astonished to see people being mad at happenings and choises in the book, like there were so few obvious solutions throughout the series??? Which also of course is mirroring reality perfectly
This was such a good video, thank you! I read these books in 2020/beginning of 2021 and they still evoke such strong feelings in me -- mostly negative, I'll be honest. But a lot of the reviews of the books don't address things like history and colorism, so I really appreciate your review for delving into those topics. They're honestly very difficult books to have a conclusive opinion on because they're so full of real history that I feel I need to fully understand in order to come up with a "final" verdict on how she adapted those events. Personally, I think the narrative reinforces colorism and aside from his first fight with Rin, Nezha wasn't ridiculed enough by the narrative lol. But it also doesn't seem like it was her intent to share opinions through the narrative -- she just meant to completely devastate. (Which I think is a bit unproductive, but it's absolutely within her right to do so.) Anyway, thanks for giving me more thoughts about these books, as if I needed any.
I know it's a few years too late, but I just finished the book, and I loved watching your video! 🔥🔥 I agree with the points you made. And as for the ending, wrt Rin's death, by the middle of this book, I felt like Rin was going to have to die by the end of the book. It was clear that Kuang was going for a corruption arc, so if Rin had lived, it would've been bad for the world. Given how terrible and bloody the whole series is, I felt that the ending was so wonderfully real and poetic, just like you said. Thanks for making this video!!!
just finished the burning god so had to jump on this video stat! 🔥 i totally agree with what you said about the ending! i feel like rf kuang has hinted at how things would end for rin so many times throughout the books, so this ending was truly the one that made the most sense and was so true to the theme + character! i don’t know why ppl were expecting a happy ending wrapped in a neat bow 😂 like did we read the same book 1&2!!! re altan, ugh i so agree!!!!! to me, i still see him as the guy in book 1, confused, angry, full of hatred carrying the pressure of his entire race on his shoulders. and yes, he also did despicable things. every altan appearance since then was a projection of rin’s insecurities and shortcomings and i thought it was pretty interesting/great that she made altan the face of it. i mean who else? nobody could possibly understand rin’s struggle (of being the last speerly, etc) the same way!! as for nezha... 💔 ok ngl i was the saddest about his character. it definitely made the most sense, and it was very fitting that he was the last one left to clean up all this shit but man, what a tragic character arc. i was actually hoping he would die & finally find peace but this works i guess *cries* oh and one last thing, my very basic heart really wanted to see clear parallels of the OG trifecta with rin, nezha and kitay? idk why i was hoping nezha would suddenly join them and anchor himself to them (not sure if it’s possible to add another anchor after) and then they’ll be the new trifecta or something. lol but that would have been way too predictable i guess 😭 but overall, what an ending. i do agree, it was the one that made the most sense, was true to the theme, character and historical context. loooved!
ahhh thank you for watching!! i totally feel you on the trifecta - i really wanted to know more about them, and i know there was just no space for them in this trilogy but i would give anything for a spinoff prequel or something to get more parallels!
i feel like more so than ending happily, i saw a lot of people expecting it to end in rin burning the hesperians to the ground if that makes sense? which i can see the appeal of for sure, but i think this ending was way more impactful personally!
I honestly disagree, I think the final message was a hopeful one. Rin knew that if she did summon the Phoenix in the end and engage in a war with the Hesperians, that meant nothing but more war and pain, and she knew that she could not rule even after. She was a general, not a leader. Also, she didn't want to simply become another in a pattern in the history books. Instead of that, she wanted to actually change Nikan's history instead of engaging in more war, so by giving the reins to Nezha she solidified a step forward in the history book rather than just repeating the pattern of war. Instead, she gave Nikan hope.
@@swaggyquaggy5077 Hopeful for the future of the country and that someone _else_ would do the work. It’s a fitting ending for everyone, including Rin, given her actions and who she is. It’s not a classically happy ending for her or others though. It’s the best you could hope for for her, given the circumstances and the tone/theme/plot of the series/book.
I completely agree with everything you said! I felt like the ending was very fitting to the whole storyline because, as you said, the point to me was very clearly to show the destructive power of war and how, "winning" a war is not the "end" and it means shit if your country is in shambles
You could just see Rin losing her sanity, especially throughout TBG and while I hated everything that happened between her, Venka and Kitay at the end (I WAS SOBBING), it felt so fitting to her character arc!
Out if the 3 books, TBG was definitely my least favourite but not because of the ending (i thought the ending was soooo well done and so fitting to the themes of the trilogy) but mostly because of a pacing issue i had and because i wanted more from certain storylines (Chaghan's and the Trifecta's) but i think, objectively, that's my personal issue, i know adding more of those two would've only taken away from the main point of the book
i loved hearing your thoughts! i definitely agree on the pacing issues, especially with the trifecta - it felt really anti-climactic, and while i understood why we couldn't dwell on it, i just selfishly wanted more
I just finished the Burning God about 10 minutes ago, and let me tell you, I WAS SO MADD when rin died lol. In that moment, I couldn't help but feel that she had the potential to emerge victorious, to unleash her power and rip Kitay's mind, and even use her godlike abilities to scorch the Hespersion shores she could have been powerful and cruel like Riga. However, as I pondered this alternative ending, I realized that it wouldn't have resonated with me either because we saw how things ended with Riga. I mean there MIGHT have been be a victory if she chose that path we don’t know, but I wouldn't have been able to forgive her for braking Kitay. Moreover, I had this lingering thought that Nezha might somehow find a way to be anchored with them. It sounds far-fetched, I know, but it crossed my mind nonetheless, part of me wanted the three of them the to rule, this would have been a happier ending but this one isn’t bad either. Nevertheless, the ending as it stands is perfect. I'd much rather witness Rin sacrificing herself for Nikara and passing away alongside Kitay than witness her descending into cruelty like Riga. This ending imparts a sense of tranquility rather than tainted power. I’m glad to find out that some people like this ending too :)
i typed up a bunch of thoughts and then accidentally clicked off this and they didn't send ugh i think my sole issue with this book was the pacing of part 2 with the trifecta, but other than that it was what the series needed. i totally agree on the "rin didn't lose" point... she didn't lose, she just failed in what her goal was... those to me at least are different. and i think it's also on brand for her character to not want to deal with the consequences of her choices... so nezha having to deal with it is just fitting for both their character arcs rebecca would have never given us an ideal ending, i agree... its grimdark so... idk why ppl were expecting otherwise
yesss i agree about part 2 actually, i really wish the trifecta storyline didn't end so abruptly. i felt like it seemed like a bunch of stuff was edited out almost?
Re: mainlanders One of the things that really shocked me being from the West studying Chinese and traveling in the Sinosphere is just how much pride there is over *not* being mainlanders, not even just in HK but like in Singapore and Taiwan too Also I'm really shocked people could come to the conclusion that this is a romanticization of Imperialism, the book isn't exactly subtle in its descriptions of how the Hesperians view the Nikara... Lol. It felt very "deal with the devil", plus alluding to what you said, war and ruling are different problems Re: colorism, it seems fitting given the historical pale skin beauty standards of China
How can anyone expect Rin to rule? She didn't even finish her education in Sinegard, where she was supposed to study war techniques, and some people are mad because she can't rule? She was not educated in governance in any way; we see that as far back as the first book when she proposed a strategy that would win them a battle, and possibly the war, but at the cost of civilian lives and years of reconstructing the economy. The moment she won the war, she didn't know what to do, and turned to alcohol for support. She let Kitay resolve most problems, because she simply didn't know how, but it's okay. She has only ever known war. She wanted to start another so that she's in her comfort zone, but fortunately she sees reason, and even sacrifices herself for her people. Yes, she loves the Empire and wants to protect it, but that doesn't mean that she would be a good ruler. She did the best thing she could think of, and I would be intrested to see where that leads Nikan to. I wouldn't be mad if a sequel came out.
I'm late but!!! i love this video!! i missed r.f. kuang's live so this vid really helped me put everything into context and see the ~deeper~ meaning of the ending
This is without a doubt the most complex book series I've ever read. It is very Grim Dark and I was unaware of that. The second book was a bit of a disappointment until I read the 3rd book. My only complaint is the Cike and how they were mishandled, but I can get over it. Rin is so Grey is impossible to distinguish. She has so many great qualities, but too many flaws. Mainly rage. I feel this will go down as a modern day masterpiece.
Hello! Just wanted to say you did an amazing job explaining TBG! Thank you 💖💖🔥 Definitely gonna share this video to my friends that I made read this series lol
Well, sorry I’m late! I’ve just finished the book and the ending wasn’t perfect, imo. And, I just wanna say that the history that you brought up is not anywhere close to what really happened. China didn’t ask for reperation not because they had relationship with America and needed help from them, but because they didn’t and couldn’t ask even if they wanted to. They still hate Japan for it til this day, also we didn’t live in imperialist time at all, yes the culture may still left behind, but imperialism meant that one country has to do what the other country wanted them to; colonization is when one country try to impose their culture, custom, and way of living on another country. I’d say 80% of the world are beyond imperialism and 100% are beyond colonization. Back to the book, Rin could’ve done what Mao did after the Great Leap and shared power with some of the brilliant leaders, but the book didn’t build up enough characters that portrayed the likes of Deng Xiaoping, Xi Zhongxun and many more influential figures that rebuilt China after the Chinese civil war. I understand why, I think because the author doesn’t like the PRC, and fair enough, but that’s why I think the ending isnt perfect for me. And yes, many revolution didn’t work but some did. The PRC, if Mao was just more humble, they could’ve become a great power long before Xi Jinping became president. So, the book could’ve taken that route and left the country for Kitay and Venka to lead the country and Rin as the symbol, but no, it had to be the Dragon Republic. I think the book could’ve portrayed history a lil more accurate but hey, that’s just my opinions.
@@tammietriestoread I loved it and needed to stare blankly for a few once it was over. I really like how you broke it down and I agree it was a perfect ending :)
War is messy. It's always messy. Victory in war is messy. I think readers who expect a completely "happy" easy end to a war or a revolution miss that big point.
Loved the video! I agree completely with everything that you said, it was indeed the perfect ending.I loved the way that Mrs Kuang depicted all of the characters in the story, you never really know if they are good or evil, they are just humans trying to do their best in a chaotic situation.As a result, I think that characters like Altan tend to be seen like monsters, when in reality the way that they act is understandable considering the circumstances that they are put in due to the war.And I feel the same as you when it comes to the Imperialism parallels in the book, it was expected for the Hesperian to interviene in some kind of way on the land considering the instability that the end of the war brought.Coming from an ex colony country, I definitely saw parallels with you own interpretation of the situation in Hong Kong and everything made even more sense. Again thank you for the video!
I've genuinely seen people call Altan abusive like ???? It's as if victims have to be perfect angels and that their trauma makes them "better and stronger". Fuck that shit. Altan was never what he seemed bc he was ultimately a very complex character and whenever Rin thought she finally "knew" him, SHE DIDNT, she just uncovers one of his many layers. 🔥🔥🔥 Ok so I kinda hated the ending even tho I KNEW it was kinda gonna be like this but ughhh reality sucks ya know and this book just hit too close to the mark. The hate/love I have for this series is just so strong and that itself makes it deserve 5 stars bc I'm STILL obsessing over the ending. I hate it a lil less after this video. Thanks, I hate it but still thanks lmaoo (As someone who lives in a former British colony and the way the "elite" class is deeply in love with western influences and looks down on the lower class bc in the end my country does depend on foreign aid n stuff, I do understand the ending but frustration ughh)
i definitely understand your frustrations! i think of all the things in the book, the exploration of imperialism and the romanticization of western culture was probably one of the most triggering things for me personally!
Members of the Cike either end up dead or in the Mountain, and I loved that Kuang didn’t make Rin immune to that. War is incredibly messy, and Rin knew from the begging how her story would end.
Kitay is just as murderous and vengeful as Rin is. I think it’s harder to notice because he spends most of his time hiding behind an air of civility, but he has his moments too
10000%
Kitay enabled Rin. And I don't believe he didn't know what she was doing. He also needed an outlet for the rage inside him. Nezha was probably the only person there who didn't grow a sense of blood lust. He was a traitor to his friends and in a sense, to his own country, but to leave him with everything just felt perfect. It was his worst case scenario.
Thank you for clearing this up for people, it frustrates me to no end people criticizing this book for things it was never trying do. It's a historical fantasy and it's showing the tragic side effects of war, its not supposed to make you feel better it's supposed to inform you.
thanks for watching!!
ok literally WHO reads the downward spiral Rin has throughout the entire series, ESPECIALLY Burning God and thinks she will be happy? She has trauma in Dragon Republic and that's before... A LOT happened. It spirals and she's paranoid of everyone and everything, love her as a character, but she/her gov would never last. Also her not trusting Venka is totally valid since like every "part" of the Poppy War trilogy books ends with Rin being betrayed by someone/some group like 9/10. She'd been betrayed so many times by that point that ofc she's going to be paranoid and not trust anyone (still half and half on whether I trust Venka or not buuuut).
also Altan being villainous??? Rin nuked a whole country and we could start a list of awful things Nezha did.
TB there are people out there 😭 i saw quite a few reviews who said they just wanted it to end with rin burning all the white people
@@tammietriestoread well…
@@tammietriestoread they should’ve realized it’s stupid to do that cuz they r so developed and can help share their inventions with the nikara.
Yea the ending of Rin’s story was predictable from book 2. While predictability is usually not a good thing, there is no other way her story could’ve ended. It shows the inevitability of the path Rin shows to go down. There is no way for the country to move on from the tragedy it endured if Rin continued to live. She would burn her own people to the ground to get what she wanted.
I agree, the ending was was perfect. I believe Nezha was the best ruler. Rin wasn't supposed to rule, she was supposed to FIGHT. Although her dying hurts, it was the real solution. 💔💔
The ending broke me, but I totally get why it had to happen. Did I want want a happily ever after for the three of them yes? Because that's the wishful thinking but from the beginning we've seen that Rin doesn't know what she wants in the "after" so it was perfect that she didn't know what to do after the war got over.
Loved this! I really liked your point about revolutions and how they tend to fail. So often it is reactionary (which like fair, given why most attempted revolutions come about), but not a lot of thought goes into the after. The focus is so heavily on dismantling the current power structure and trying to survive, that it sometimes leaves no room for thinking about the after. And now with hindsight, I feel like Rebecca Kuang was hinting at the ending throughout the series. Rin is so focused on surviving and pushing forward, and whenever she is confronted with the question of “what happens after”, whether that pertains to the consequences of her actions or what the country will look like, she routinely pushes it to the side. Anyways, a great conclusion to the series and great vid as well!
yess absolutely! i reread TPW right after finishing TBG and honestly it was even better the second time around, the way she set things up from book 1 was just so well done! thank you so much for watching 💕💕
you: Kitay enabled rin
me: WAIT WAIT LET HER SPEAK
whenever people describe him as a himbo/cinnamon roll i'm just like WHERE?
No joke! He's just as dark but won't admit it to himself. Every time he's confronted with it, he's genuinely horrified partially because these things would horrify anyone, but also because he won't look at himself in his entirety. He's walking denial
I agree with everything you said! Also rin would have been a terrible leader, i think it made since for her to be suspicious of kitay and venka towards the end cause she’s been betrayed by anyone she trusted.
Thank you for watching love!! 💕
If Rin didn't die at the end, the book would have just felt... dirty. I don't know how else to describe it. Didn't you feel the wrongness in the air from the start of the book? Especially in the last leg of the journey? I understand where Rin came from, Kuang did a great job of taking us through that journey, but Rin's atrocities could not go unpunished. Even if Kuang deviated from history more and let Rin have her truly independent Nikan, the only Rin that would have worked would have been a Rin who was completely lost to us. Crazy. And she would have went on that unending crusade at the end of the book, perhaps closing as she set off as a woman destroyed by war. It would have a very grim tone as well.
There was no possible scenario where Rin was allowed to survive and rule. It was a great ending, and Rin got to do something heroic on her way out.
Agreed, it was the perfect ending!
i definitely also agree that it's the perfect ending for the series! it's painful for sure, but the reasoning for why rebecca wrote it that way (when you understand the cultural and historical context) makes sense. the KMT ruled as a military dictatorship when they moved over to Taiwan, effectively oppressing a lot of the native Taiwanese there. great discussion, tammie!
thank you for watching tiff!!
This is brilliant. You put all my thoughts into words. I was also SO suspicious of Venka the whole time 😂🔥
ahh i'm glad you enjoyed the video! and yess i was like i love you venka but also 👀👀👀
The funny thing is I never suspected Venka until Rin realized it.
As a Taiwanese, I have something to say ,After the republic of China lost the war in , they flee to Taiwan,and the government is super corrupted( the main reason why they lose in China)Taiwanese people fought for decades to have democracy .
It’s also the reason why I love the book, Rebecca wrote it so well,she didn’t rally have villain in this series ( in my opinion)
Yeah I definitely had an oh no moment with the ending and then the more I sat with it the more it made sense because like you mentioned it wouldn't have mad sense for rin to destroy the Hesperians and it all to just be good bc the destruction this war has had will have repercussions. And yes the fact that Nezha is the one that has to deal with it all just made sense too after thinking about it.
it definitely took me some time to sort out my thoughts and feelings about the ending too!
Definitely agree, I think anyone who thought we would get a happy ending were being far too optimistic! I also agree with you saying that Rin is not a peace time leader, and I think R.F Kuang shows that through Rin's enjoyment of battle, and especially towards the end. I felt like Rin was overwhelmed by the hunger and devastation of the people and turned on Venka and Kitay as a way to create conflict, because conflict is all she knows, and she simply doesn't know to live without it. Loved the series, and can't wait to have more spoilery chats with people!
i like that interpretation! i'm glad you enjoyed the book/series too!
Yeah that’s a pretty cool take on it
Points were made and I agreed with what you said about expectations. We’re so used to one type of story being told from one people’s perspective and that skews our perception of what a good story is. Amazing video as always my love 🔥🔥🔥
thank you bb! 🥺
I completely agree with everything you said! I think in many fantasy books, war is depicted with a degree of romanticism; the underdog realises their self worth and comes out on top, avenging themselves, crushing their enemy underfoot, and somehow also managing to find the love of their life all at the same time. It’s all parcelled up nicely and justified with some cute inspirational message about how you can do anything if you believe in yourself, etc. People want a little discomfort and suffering for their protagonist, but also the assurance that all will be well in the end. R.F Kuang showed history without spinning a sparkly fairy tale out of it, and I think that’s the best thing she could’ve done as an author.
Some downsides though: I was a bit miffed about the anticlimactic end to the Trifecta. All that build up to... nothing really. We never even got to see Riga in action properly. Also maybe I’m just dumb but I didn’t really understand what happened between the Trifecta and Hanelai. I’m gonna need someone to spell it out for me 😅
i agree about the trifecta! i would've loved to see more of them, and i'm secretly hoping that one day she'll write a prequel about them 😅 i don't fully remember what happened with them and hanelai, i just remember that it was hinted at that hanelai and jiang might be rin's parents?
A lot of points that were brought up definitely highlighted once again how much TPW trilogy draws from history. Also, the ending was perfect, anything else probably would have felt like a cop-out.
I agree that TPW as a trilogy never set to dismantle colourism, but I think what gave me pause about it in terms of Rin was her descent to paranoia could be seen as being a Speerly-thing (even with the historical context of her character). The dehumanisation of Speerlies and by extension dark-skin characters is something TPW trilogy never shies away from. While this reads true to real-life; at a point of reading TBG and Rin's descent in Part 3, it felt like part of Rin's inability to make sound decisions arose from the fact that she can't run away from being Speerly.
That by Rin being Speerly it meant that all she was good for to anyone was to be a weapon and therefore wasn't seen as a person. We see this theme often in the TPW trilogy. However, without another dark-skin character (as dark as Rin) humanised and not dead; Rin's downfall may read as an effect of her being Speerly rather than her just having to live with her terrible decisions. Especially if we look at the language used by other characters to talk about Speer and Speerlies.
I probably wouldn't apply this to Altan because I kind of read him as more of an extension of Rin's subconscious especially because we see him mostly through Rin's eyes.
Sorry if this is rambly and long, but I think this is why I was kind of disappointed with how colourism was handled even if the TPW never set out to dismantle it. This is just one darker-skin, South Asian person's view; so I could be wrong with the above interpretation.
no need to apologize at all, i loved getting your perspective on this! i think for me personally, i felt like even though rin was dehumanized by the other characters, she was never dehumanized to me as a reader, though i do realize i am biased here because i have always related to rin on a very personal level. i think i also fundamentally have always seen her connection to speer as somewhat superficial (the whole nature vs nurture thing), so i didn't quite catch the connection between her heritage and how that tied into her actions, so i really appreciate you pointing these issues out! i definitely see your point and think that is a totally valid interpretation, and completely understand why you were disappointed. thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts as well!
@@tammietriestoread Thank you for replying to my very messy comment. While I never want to take away from the amazing impact TPW trilogy has had. I do think expecting one person, especially a non-white author, to perfectly deal with every part of a culture and its impacts aren't feasible. TPW trilogy did so well in pointing out that history isn't very uncomfortable and how that doesn't mean we get to shy away from it.
I am glad that we are getting better Asian representation more often, it has taken such a long time, and every win is important.
@@dhrishyathomas7018 100% agree!
would it be a burning god chat if there wasn't chaos involved? LOL i loved watching this and hearing your thoughts. i 100% agree that many ppl, including myself, went in with certain expectations. i even KNEW rin's character inspirations and some of the historical context and my brain still couldn't compute the ending. with that being said, when i reread the series i know that i am going to love the book and the ending since i now know what happens beforehand.
haha trueee, chaos is necessary 😂 i hope you enjoy it more on reread!
hey I loved the video! on venka, she was sus from the moment she missed MULTIPLE shots fired at nezha at the end of tdr (while she supposedly never misses). I had a theory that maybe nezha asked her to look after rin like in a way loving way (at least at first)? idk it's probably really naive haha but then it would make sense why venka actually cared about rin's wellbeing, helped her win successful battles, and so on while having close ties to nezha.
thank you for watching! ahhh that's an interesting theory, i don't think i've heard anyone else say that before!
The thing about the endind was the way Rin suffered at the end of her jouney, she won the war but it only made her life more miserable, the constant fear of treason while living on Aarlong, the death of Venka, the famine, the southerns who were supposed to support her but turned against her, she spiraled into despair not even trusting Kitai... but what you said is right, this book is grimmdark fantasy so if I wanted a happy ending I'm shopping in the wrong store... I still feel pretty bad for Rin, she really grew on me
This book is FULL of dilemmas so I'm astonished to see people being mad at happenings and choises in the book, like there were so few obvious solutions throughout the series??? Which also of course is mirroring reality perfectly
This was such a good video, thank you! I read these books in 2020/beginning of 2021 and they still evoke such strong feelings in me -- mostly negative, I'll be honest. But a lot of the reviews of the books don't address things like history and colorism, so I really appreciate your review for delving into those topics. They're honestly very difficult books to have a conclusive opinion on because they're so full of real history that I feel I need to fully understand in order to come up with a "final" verdict on how she adapted those events. Personally, I think the narrative reinforces colorism and aside from his first fight with Rin, Nezha wasn't ridiculed enough by the narrative lol. But it also doesn't seem like it was her intent to share opinions through the narrative -- she just meant to completely devastate. (Which I think is a bit unproductive, but it's absolutely within her right to do so.) Anyway, thanks for giving me more thoughts about these books, as if I needed any.
thank you for watching!
THIS is the kind of review I like to see. God the ending killed me but after months of consideration I am happy Rin can finally rest 😢
I know it's a few years too late, but I just finished the book, and I loved watching your video! 🔥🔥
I agree with the points you made. And as for the ending, wrt Rin's death, by the middle of this book, I felt like Rin was going to have to die by the end of the book. It was clear that Kuang was going for a corruption arc, so if Rin had lived, it would've been bad for the world. Given how terrible and bloody the whole series is, I felt that the ending was so wonderfully real and poetic, just like you said. Thanks for making this video!!!
i'm so glad to hear that you enjoyed the book! thank you for watching 💕
thank you for saying everything that I could never get my thoughts in order enough to explain properly 🤣 I agree with it all, this was great!!! 🔥💕
thank you for watching!!
just finished the burning god so had to jump on this video stat! 🔥 i totally agree with what you said about the ending! i feel like rf kuang has hinted at how things would end for rin so many times throughout the books, so this ending was truly the one that made the most sense and was so true to the theme + character! i don’t know why ppl were expecting a happy ending wrapped in a neat bow 😂 like did we read the same book 1&2!!!
re altan, ugh i so agree!!!!! to me, i still see him as the guy in book 1, confused, angry, full of hatred carrying the pressure of his entire race on his shoulders. and yes, he also did despicable things. every altan appearance since then was a projection of rin’s insecurities and shortcomings and i thought it was pretty interesting/great that she made altan the face of it. i mean who else? nobody could possibly understand rin’s struggle (of being the last speerly, etc) the same way!!
as for nezha... 💔 ok ngl i was the saddest about his character. it definitely made the most sense, and it was very fitting that he was the last one left to clean up all this shit but man, what a tragic character arc. i was actually hoping he would die & finally find peace but this works i guess *cries*
oh and one last thing, my very basic heart really wanted to see clear parallels of the OG trifecta with rin, nezha and kitay? idk why i was hoping nezha would suddenly join them and anchor himself to them (not sure if it’s possible to add another anchor after) and then they’ll be the new trifecta or something. lol but that would have been way too predictable i guess 😭
but overall, what an ending. i do agree, it was the one that made the most sense, was true to the theme, character and historical context. loooved!
ahhh thank you for watching!! i totally feel you on the trifecta - i really wanted to know more about them, and i know there was just no space for them in this trilogy but i would give anything for a spinoff prequel or something to get more parallels!
I loved this series and it had a fantastic ending. I felt the last 30 pages felt more of an appendix but I loved who it wrapped up.
thanks for watching nic!
Just finished the series and came crawling for content and your video is SO complete and reasonable, loved it and I agree a lot
Thank you for watching!!
(I haven't read the series yet and for once I don't wanna get spoilered so I am just here to say hi to you and the algorithm ok byyyye)
bahahah i appreciate this so much 😂
Absolutely. 100% agree with most everything. Does make me feel like some people misread this book. Who was thinking this would end “happily”.
i feel like more so than ending happily, i saw a lot of people expecting it to end in rin burning the hesperians to the ground if that makes sense? which i can see the appeal of for sure, but i think this ending was way more impactful personally!
I honestly disagree, I think the final message was a hopeful one. Rin knew that if she did summon the Phoenix in the end and engage in a war with the Hesperians, that meant nothing but more war and pain, and she knew that she could not rule even after. She was a general, not a leader. Also, she didn't want to simply become another in a pattern in the history books. Instead of that, she wanted to actually change Nikan's history instead of engaging in more war, so by giving the reins to Nezha she solidified a step forward in the history book rather than just repeating the pattern of war. Instead, she gave Nikan hope.
Bittersweet maybe, but not nihilistic like everyone else says
@@swaggyquaggy5077 Hopeful for the future of the country and that someone _else_ would do the work. It’s a fitting ending for everyone, including Rin, given her actions and who she is. It’s not a classically happy ending for her or others though. It’s the best you could hope for for her, given the circumstances and the tone/theme/plot of the series/book.
I completely agree with everything you said!
I felt like the ending was very fitting to the whole storyline because, as you said, the point to me was very clearly to show the destructive power of war and how, "winning" a war is not the "end" and it means shit if your country is in shambles
You could just see Rin losing her sanity, especially throughout TBG and while I hated everything that happened between her, Venka and Kitay at the end (I WAS SOBBING), it felt so fitting to her character arc!
And as you said, Altan in book 2 and 3 was more a representation if Rin's thoughts and self-hatred, he really wasn't THE villain???
Out if the 3 books, TBG was definitely my least favourite but not because of the ending (i thought the ending was soooo well done and so fitting to the themes of the trilogy) but mostly because of a pacing issue i had and because i wanted more from certain storylines (Chaghan's and the Trifecta's) but i think, objectively, that's my personal issue, i know adding more of those two would've only taken away from the main point of the book
okay, whew, i think I'm done, i had to put this out there 😅
i loved hearing your thoughts! i definitely agree on the pacing issues, especially with the trifecta - it felt really anti-climactic, and while i understood why we couldn't dwell on it, i just selfishly wanted more
RF Kuang once wrote an article about azula from atla and when I think about it I cant help but draw similarities
i've actually never watched atla hahah
I just finished the Burning God about 10 minutes ago, and let me tell you, I WAS SO MADD when rin died lol.
In that moment, I couldn't help but feel that she had the potential to emerge victorious, to unleash her power and rip Kitay's mind, and even use her godlike abilities to scorch the Hespersion shores she could have been powerful and cruel like Riga.
However, as I pondered this alternative ending, I realized that it wouldn't have resonated with me either because we saw how things ended with Riga. I mean there MIGHT have been be a victory if she chose that path we don’t know, but I wouldn't have been able to forgive her for braking Kitay.
Moreover, I had this lingering thought that Nezha might somehow find a way to be anchored with them. It sounds far-fetched, I know, but it crossed my mind nonetheless, part of me wanted the three of them the to rule, this would have been a happier ending but this one isn’t bad either.
Nevertheless, the ending as it stands is perfect. I'd much rather witness Rin sacrificing herself for Nikara and passing away alongside Kitay than witness her descending into cruelty like Riga. This ending imparts a sense of tranquility rather than tainted power.
I’m glad to find out that some people like this ending too :)
i typed up a bunch of thoughts and then accidentally clicked off this and they didn't send ugh
i think my sole issue with this book was the pacing of part 2 with the trifecta, but other than that it was what the series needed. i totally agree on the "rin didn't lose" point... she didn't lose, she just failed in what her goal was... those to me at least are different. and i think it's also on brand for her character to not want to deal with the consequences of her choices... so nezha having to deal with it is just fitting for both their character arcs
rebecca would have never given us an ideal ending, i agree... its grimdark so... idk why ppl were expecting otherwise
yesss i agree about part 2 actually, i really wish the trifecta storyline didn't end so abruptly. i felt like it seemed like a bunch of stuff was edited out almost?
@@tammietriestoread I think she said her editor made her cut out a lot in the middle of the book so it makes sense
I FINALLY finished the burning god and can finally watch this. How did y'all move on from this series?
who says we did? 🥲
Altan is guilty consience of Rin in the remaining 2 books
Re: mainlanders
One of the things that really shocked me being from the West studying Chinese and traveling in the Sinosphere is just how much pride there is over *not* being mainlanders, not even just in HK but like in Singapore and Taiwan too
Also I'm really shocked people could come to the conclusion that this is a romanticization of Imperialism, the book isn't exactly subtle in its descriptions of how the Hesperians view the Nikara... Lol. It felt very "deal with the devil", plus alluding to what you said, war and ruling are different problems
Re: colorism, it seems fitting given the historical pale skin beauty standards of China
How can anyone expect Rin to rule? She didn't even finish her education in Sinegard, where she was supposed to study war techniques, and some people are mad because she can't rule? She was not educated in governance in any way; we see that as far back as the first book when she proposed a strategy that would win them a battle, and possibly the war, but at the cost of civilian lives and years of reconstructing the economy. The moment she won the war, she didn't know what to do, and turned to alcohol for support. She let Kitay resolve most problems, because she simply didn't know how, but it's okay. She has only ever known war. She wanted to start another so that she's in her comfort zone, but fortunately she sees reason, and even sacrifices herself for her people. Yes, she loves the Empire and wants to protect it, but that doesn't mean that she would be a good ruler. She did the best thing she could think of, and I would be intrested to see where that leads Nikan to. I wouldn't be mad if a sequel came out.
🔥 i love the burning god
I love how you explain your thoughts, like, it's interesting to listen to what you have to say haha
aww thank you so much!
I'm late but!!! i love this video!! i missed r.f. kuang's live so this vid really helped me put everything into context and see the ~deeper~ meaning of the ending
Aww thank you so much! I'm glad you found the video helpful! 💕
This is without a doubt the most complex book series I've ever read. It is very Grim Dark and I was unaware of that. The second book was a bit of a disappointment until I read the 3rd book. My only complaint is the Cike and how they were mishandled, but I can get over it. Rin is so Grey is impossible to distinguish. She has so many great qualities, but too many flaws. Mainly rage. I feel this will go down as a modern day masterpiece.
I wanted more POVs especially Nezha and Kitay ....Rin was tiring sometimes
The way I nodded at EVERYTHING you said in this video! Also who read Altan as a villain?? HE'S OBVIOUSLY OUR LORD AND SAVIOR AND I WOULD DIE FOR HIM
LOL not our lord and saviour 💀💀💀
Hello! Just wanted to say you did an amazing job explaining TBG! Thank you 💖💖🔥 Definitely gonna share this video to my friends that I made read this series lol
i'm glad you enjoyed the video, thank you so much for watching!!
Well, sorry I’m late! I’ve just finished the book and the ending wasn’t perfect, imo. And, I just wanna say that the history that you brought up is not anywhere close to what really happened. China didn’t ask for reperation not because they had relationship with America and needed help from them, but because they didn’t and couldn’t ask even if they wanted to. They still hate Japan for it til this day, also we didn’t live in imperialist time at all, yes the culture may still left behind, but imperialism meant that one country has to do what the other country wanted them to; colonization is when one country try to impose their culture, custom, and way of living on another country. I’d say 80% of the world are beyond imperialism and 100% are beyond colonization. Back to the book, Rin could’ve done what Mao did after the Great Leap and shared power with some of the brilliant leaders, but the book didn’t build up enough characters that portrayed the likes of Deng Xiaoping, Xi Zhongxun and many more influential figures that rebuilt China after the Chinese civil war. I understand why, I think because the author doesn’t like the PRC, and fair enough, but that’s why I think the ending isnt perfect for me. And yes, many revolution didn’t work but some did. The PRC, if Mao was just more humble, they could’ve become a great power long before Xi Jinping became president. So, the book could’ve taken that route and left the country for Kitay and Venka to lead the country and Rin as the symbol, but no, it had to be the Dragon Republic. I think the book could’ve portrayed history a lil more accurate but hey, that’s just my opinions.
I mean I spammed you with how I felt... so.... WHY VENKA??? REALLY WTF????? I'M STILL SO MAAAAAAD!
but what a great ending!
LOL i loved your spamming!
Nooooooo not my bb Venka!!! 😭😭😭 She will always be innocent in my mind, rip 💜💜💜
Rin has no brain cells isn’t a good enough reason for what she did to my bb 😭💔💔💔
Venka's ending broke me the most, I think I hugged the book just repeatedly saying "nooo"
loool she was so sus tho! i was sad but i also don't blame rin for not trusting anyone
@@tammietriestoread Everyone was sus!! But you make some good points!
@@mori7956 this is also true 😂
5 months later and I can finally watch this 🔥🔥🔥
Ahhhh what did you think of the book??
@@tammietriestoread I loved it and needed to stare blankly for a few once it was over. I really like how you broke it down and I agree it was a perfect ending :)
@@mah_jayjay I'm so glad you enjoyed it too!! And yeah I still haven't mustered up enough courage for a reread 😭
@@tammietriestoread I send you all the good vibes when you do decide to reread 😊
Going to come back to leave a longer comment when I’m off work but ugh I love this so much and ilysm and now I want to reread lol
can't wait to hear your full thoughts
any one know where the live with Rebecc Kuang is that keeps getting mentioned?
the one i reference in the video was on her instagram, but i don't believe it's available to view anymore!
AMEN
hello tammie
hi katy!!
This was a very interesting video! 🔥
thanks for watching!
War is messy. It's always messy. Victory in war is messy. I think readers who expect a completely "happy" easy end to a war or a revolution miss that big point.
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Loved the video! I agree completely with everything that you said, it was indeed the perfect ending.I loved the way that Mrs Kuang depicted all of the characters in the story, you never really know if they are good or evil, they are just humans trying to do their best in a chaotic situation.As a result, I think that characters like Altan tend to be seen like monsters, when in reality the way that they act is understandable considering the circumstances that they are put in due to the war.And I feel the same as you when it comes to the Imperialism parallels in the book, it was expected for the Hesperian to interviene in some kind of way on the land considering the instability that the end of the war brought.Coming from an ex colony country, I definitely saw parallels with you own interpretation of the situation in Hong Kong and everything made even more sense.
Again thank you for the video!
thank you so much for watching and for your comment, i loved hearing your thoughts as well!
this was a great review, i dont have anything intelligent to say cause i'm hollow from finsihing haha but FIRE emoji hehe
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Rin seriously has no brain cells !!
FIRST!!!
I've genuinely seen people call Altan abusive like ???? It's as if victims have to be perfect angels and that their trauma makes them "better and stronger". Fuck that shit. Altan was never what he seemed bc he was ultimately a very complex character and whenever Rin thought she finally "knew" him, SHE DIDNT, she just uncovers one of his many layers.
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Ok so I kinda hated the ending even tho I KNEW it was kinda gonna be like this but ughhh reality sucks ya know and this book just hit too close to the mark. The hate/love I have for this series is just so strong and that itself makes it deserve 5 stars bc I'm STILL obsessing over the ending. I hate it a lil less after this video. Thanks, I hate it but still thanks lmaoo
(As someone who lives in a former British colony and the way the "elite" class is deeply in love with western influences and looks down on the lower class bc in the end my country does depend on foreign aid n stuff, I do understand the ending but frustration ughh)
i definitely understand your frustrations! i think of all the things in the book, the exploration of imperialism and the romanticization of western culture was probably one of the most triggering things for me personally!
I thought the ending was great
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The first two books were garbage I'm watching this because there is no way I can bring myself to actually read the last book.
GARABAGE??? NAAAA
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