Wenger finished in the top 4 every season on a shoestring budget to pay for the emirates stadium for over a decade until he left, even Klopp wasn't that consistent
Wenger sacrificed 5 years of potential success from stubbornness in not allowing any other staff help with transfers and his stubbornness to trying to replicate Tika taka
@@ACE360xnot really because he was funded just fine until 2006, which is before he won his titles. Jurgen Klopp had a very middling budget for his entire tenure
From 96-06 wenger was great he won 3 titles,2 doubles being invincible and then with a shortage of budget he competed with fergie and chelsea's money and city lately.
Buvey talking about Klopp and money… as if Wenger didn’t have over a decade paying off the Emirates debt. Look at some of those dross squads - Gervinho, Djourou, Chamakh, etc. still got into the top four and competed some years. The vast majority of other managers would’ve walked when they had the opportunity.
Ok but he didn’t win a premier league for that decade, left arsenal in shambles when he left cus he couldn’t have been bothered about youth and development, look at where Liverpool are under klopp now, only other managers I’ve seen do that are pep and sir Alex, ik we didn’t win the premier league a lot, but it also has to be said that we got 97,91 and 99 points in a space of 4 years while also being in 3 champions league finals in those 4 years, when has arsenal wenger ever done that, if not for ramos being one of the dirtiest players in history breaking salahs arm and karius having the worst performance of all time in a game we would have won that final, then go to the other final against Madrid, courteous had arguably the greatest performance in a cl final ? These aren’t excuses by the way they are just variables and reason to why we lost, and don’t get me started on the premier league.
“Klopps only ever won one trophy in a season” Well that’s just wrong mate. That season when Liverpool almost won the quadruple, they did win the domestic cup double.
Kids these days don't realise how good Wenger was. Entertaining, revolutionary, trophy winning football, then suddenly hindered financially just as money started spiralling out of control in the Premier League (Chelsea & City), and still managed to consistently finish top 4. For me he's at least 3rd on the list.
Bob paisley: 9 years at Liverpool: 20 trophies total , 3 champions league titles, 6 English champions(premier league), 6 super cups etc An underrated maneger for sure
Mourinho winning 2 back to back PL titles then coming close 2nd on the 3rd season. Coming back 10 years later in a totally different PL and winning it a 3rd time being the first manager to win it first from day 1 to the last day is truly incredible Also Wenger did nothing in Europe and did 8 years with 0 trophies which is laughable for any top manager so it has to be Ferguson. Jose . Pep . Klopp . Wenger
@@BrandonAyongBro Uncle Mou is my all-time favorite manager but his floor is just too low compared to the two above him. Now if you want to talk in terms of peak, I actually do agree with Rory's take.
@@potheadesens8725i would make that If jose got the city job in 2016 he would have around the same number of trophies than pep under those conditions but pep does play consistently well he takes Jose on that but a strong argument is that Jose has a great record vs Ferguson a ridiculously amazing record vs Wenger and a decent one vs pep
Not close between Wenger and Klopp if we're looking at PL managers. Klopp is fantastic and as a United fan, I envy Liverpool for having him all these years. But Wenger's legacy in PL is closer to Fergie and Pep than to Klopp. Absolutely top 3. In my opinion: 1. Sir Alex 2. Pep 3. Wenger 4. Mourinho 5. Klopp
@Romulan85 if you're going to call someone ignorant, at least make a coherent point first? Wenger revolutionized the way football was treated and played in England, won more than Klopp and is the only manager to win it without losing in the league. His records stand out when compared to the rest in the PL. Klopp's doesn't.
Buvey's primary point for Klopp is so stupid. There's so much more money in the prem now - it dwarfs all other countries. Klopp's best side might beat United's - does that make him better than Sir Alex?
Buvy doesn’t seem to realise that in a lot of the wenger and fergie era the prem wasn’t the behemoth it is now and the talent was much more spread out. Serie A teams were stacked as hell, so were the German, Spanish and even the French teams so it was much harder to win in Europe.
But the point you're missing is that the PL is far more competitive now. The overall quality of players across all PL teams is considerably closer across the board, the only difference is that the top 6 have higher quality in depth. There is a reason why teams like West Ham, Brighton, Villa and Newcastle are all competing in/winning European competitions now. Half of these PL sides would batter the mid table sides of the 2000s/2010s
Depends if they mean best premier league managers. Or best managers in the Premier League era. Both technically can have different criteria. The era opens up cup competition. Just have to assume it's that.
@@zakcunningham7827 it is actually confusing from them, because if it would be how you say, then you have to put Ancelotti in the talking, because of all he did outside of it and Pep, Jose, Fergie need to be in the conversation with him for the 1st place. Wenger would be behind Klopp 🤫
Arsene Wenger was also under financial restriction after building the emirates stadium, so that fsg point with klopp doesnt really count. Having said that i think it´s fair to say that its hard to compare different managers in different eras with all of them having their own defining attributes and weaknesses you could point to. Love Arsene being an Arsenal fan for 20 years because of him and some players of course, but also love Kloppo as a german and football enjoyer!
I agree it's so hard to judge based purely on results... The amount of money managers can spend is a massive factor. It's ferg, pep, klopp,Wenger and mourinho for me. And apart from mourinho the others are close.
Wenger stayed there for 22 years, devoted his life for the club, when he could have left earlier. Klopp himself wants to leave now, as anyone would want a break. Wenger stayed there however, accepted the modest budgets and just about held Arsenal. Longevity is highly underrated.
So Liverpool would win the league then, but Cup competition is very different. Liverpool have one every cup under Klopp, but only once, how many teams and managers have won multiple cups, in the same time period as Klopps had at Liverpool.
Buvey truly showed in 5 minutes that he's only followed football for 12 years, lads dense!! "never seen a team batter city the way liverpool have" must forget football started before saudis came in
1. Fergie 2. Wenger 3. Klopp 4. Guardiola 5. Mourinho Anything Pep and Jose achieved was off the back of billionaire owners. How Wenger and Klopp managed to stay competitive and winning trophies despite their net spend being significantly less than their rivals is what sets them apart. Fergie is just the goat, longevity, rebuilding teams, trophies he’s number 1. But Guardiola and Mourinho’s success is based on financial dopping
2005 to 2014 is not over a decade it's 8 seasons of no trophies and a few FA cup finals as opposed to a record 7. Yes we beat Hull and Villa in finals but we had to beat Liverpool, Spurs and Man Utd to win those cups.
Lmao this is like saying Liverpool won every trophy available to them in 4 years between 2019 and 2022. We get couldn’t win one UCL in 20 years mate 😂😂
@@juanteranlopez4900 not really cos the super cup and club World Cup are one off games that no other big club counts, only pool fans do it to pad out klopps record. And before people start crying I actually have klopp as an all time T5 coach in the prem but to put him above wenger when he won 3 prems in 6 seasons whilst going against SAF united is trolling 🤣
@@juanteranlopez4900 however I will concede if Liverpool win the league this year I may just slip klopp above Wenger due to the weight of the champions league and the amount leagues being marginal
1 prem, 1 fa cap, 1 champions league, league cup and community in the same time frame, ontop of the level football being played and Wengers last 9 years damaging himself- theres definitely an argument tbf
There was less competition in Wengers time though to be fair. Newcastle used to finish 3rd with Titus Bramble, Robbie Elliott, Aaron Hughes, Andy O'Brien, Olivier Bernard, Jermaine Jenas, Gary Speed, Kieran Dyer, Lua Lua, Darren Ambrose and Ameobi playing for them all the time. Only real good players were Given, Solano, Robert, Bellamy and Shearer. Wengers first title, Liverpool finished 3rd, this was Liverpools average starting XI: James; Babb, Matteo, Kvarme, Harkness; McManaman, Ince, Leonhardsen, Bjornebye; Fowler, Owen. 7 of that Liverpool team were mediocre at best and they used to finish 3rd, teams now have better teams and squads and can't get in the top 10.
I wouldn't put pep on the list due to the 115 charges however IF and it's a big IF they are clear of all charges then fair enough but for now not on the list
@@HumanBeingsRThinkingBeings the charges for man city are still going and Liverpool did not cheat to win and look at This season Liverpool got robbed by var
I think a lot of people forget what Wenger had to work with after the move to the Emirates. He lost all of his best players and couldn't replace those levels because he was always on a tight budget
Theres a strong argument that Wenger took the sacrifice so that Arsenal could become a club that could financially compete in the future. But theres also that his talent ID wasnt as good as it had been before, lets not forget the previous Arsenal teams he build were done so with bargains that turned out to be some of the greatest players of all time
@@g.g.baxter4868 while it is true Wenger signed some questionable players, there's a lot of good players he never got to sign even after scouting because of funds
Wenger was top drawer for the first half of his Arsenal career! But you can’t just ignore that he turned into a laughing stock for the last 10 years It’s hard to decide the 4th and 5th spot between him and Klopp We all know above that is: 1. Sir Alex Ferguson 2. Pep Guardiola 3. Jose Mourinho
Put the 19/20 Liverpool side in a one off friendly game against 13/14 Man City and Liverpool would absolutely steamroll them. We're talking about a team that went unbeaten for 44 games, only 5 games off Arsenal's record Klopps title winning side finished on 99 points nearly 20 clear of their closest opposition whereas Pellegrinis finished on 86, courtesy of a Liverpool bottlejob They're not even remotely comparable
@@fivestarman5130Liverpool 19/20 would probably beat city 19/20 but that city team always dominated since they’re not just a group of individuals, they’re an actual team
If it was purely on who had won the PL the most, nothing else, then its Fergie, Pep, Joint 3rd Jose/Wenger..... thats all the multiple time winners, unless Liverpool win it this year, theres a strong argument that top of the single time winners would be Ranieri, and therefore 5th
I am an arsenal fan because of Wenger, in my country Serie A was popular but after the 98 world cup the Premier league got popular mainly because of the Wenger Ferguson derby. For a lot of us the most entertaining league is the Premier league which means you owe a lot to Wenger.
You can't blame us We have probably the best squad in epl history The Liverpool and city teams in their prime beats most teams in epl history They were just head and shoulders above everyone
@@BiggestBirdonMarsthat’s more a damning indictment to the strength of the league than a boast on city and Liverpool. All a record points tally tells us is the gulf in quality between the top and bottom half. And the gap widens by the year…as the bottom rung collect their parachute payments, bounce down and return for the next year
@@blablaonblabla7322 lmao Isnt this one of the most competitive seasons in the league??? Yet you claim it keeps expanding Man city and Liverpool just played next level football not cuz the other teams were very bad but just cuz they were that good When barca beat United 3-1 did it mean United had bad players? It meant barca were just too good Not to mention English teams are doing well in Europe now Trying to downplay the quality of man city and Liverpool to the excuse that the other were bad as if football back then in the bottom teams were in the quality of today
Buvey says FSG didn't invest so they ruined Klopp's chances yet Arsenal spent fk all money (net spend) for close to a decade after they moved into the emirates and he still managed to win some FA cups at least, sold Henry, Fabregas, Van Persie etc and then never replaced them with anyone. Wenger also had to manage against Fergie and prime Man Utd so its not like he didn't have any competition.
Rory annoys me but he is right on that “mourinho peak” a lot of it didn’t happen in the pl so it’s a little invalid in this argument. 03/04- 11/12 is comparable to the greats
The Invincibles would dominate Liverpool. Van Dijk can't deal with Strikers in a 1v1 got rinsed by Toney, Mitrovic and more, Henry and Bergkamp would bully him. Aura defending backing off players until they get free shots off. Salah with his bottom 15th percentile take on success in Europe, Cole would have him locked down. Henderson vs Viera? Liverpool the most overrated era in Premier League history.
Virgil van dijk dominated mbappe in a 1 vs 1, who could be described as mbetter than henry, certainly on his way there. The invincibles are unbelievably overrated, so many draws and not even near the most point in a premier league season. How come they werent centurions like city? Even liverpool were only a point off being centurions.
Buvy doesn’t have enough football knowledge. Wenger has 3 titles in 22, fair. He won those three within 6 years, but that’s a title every 7 years. He’s the most successful manager in the FA Cup, better than SAF. He’s credited with revolutionising the league in England. Klopp has been immense for Liverpool but Wenger’s legacy is bigger and better
Rory talking about Chelsea giving up on 95pts, well that’s similar to Wengers invincibles. 4 of their 12 draws came in their last 7 games. The league was wrapped up and they were playing conservatively to remain unbeaten.
I love Klopp, but to have Klopp above Wenger is insane. Klopp has been at Liverpool for 8 years, and won 1 title. this is top PREMIER LEAGUE managers not all time managers. In the prem Wenger vs Klopp isnt close.
I support United and have only just watched this. Wenger is miiiiiiiiles clear of Klopp. That decade after the emirates move, he worked absolute wonders to get them top 4 year after year with hardly any financial backing. I was in school/6th form for most of that period, and I used to mock Arsenal fans week in out, because as a united fan it was delicious to see (especially with my most formative years seeing the brilliant Arsenal teams) but you always knew that Wenger was a fantastic manager throttled by the lack of backing.
underated stat: Klopp is simultaneously the last manager to win the premier league not managing man city and the last manager to win the bundesliga not managing bayern
Pep may not have been around in the period when those charges are being investigated for. But they effect whether he was at city in the first place. How do you explain going from having an owner that went bankrupt in 2008 and winning nothing to attracting the best manager around in 2016..... Fishy
My list: 1. Sir Alex 2. Wenger 3. Klopp 4. Pep 5. Mourinho Reasoning: Sir Alex is pretty obvious so I won't go too deep into it. But he's won by far the most PL titles. Put Man Utd back on the map and kept them at the top for over 20 years. Reinvented and rebuilt the squad after the 90s and built another squad that won 3 straight PL titles AND a UCL in 2008. Wenger and Klopp I put over Pep and Mourinho because they did simply didn't have the resources of Pep or Mourinho yet still revived 2 massive clubs. Context and resources matters. Wenger changed English football and football culture by making it more professional, doing away with the drinking, etc. His team played brilliant modern football that simply wasn't seen in England at the time. He started the first real wave of bringing in exotic foreign players. Yeah man Utd had Cantona who was the first, but Wenger did that with virtually half his squad which was unheard of at the time. He was also a master of unearthing talents and developing players from mere "talents" to genuine world beaters. Henry, Vieira, Cesc, RVP, Ashley Cole, Anelka, etc, etc. He won 3 league titles, 2 doubles and went one season undefeated. And throw in a UCL and Uefa Cup final for good measure. And as for Klopp being ahead of Pep and Mourinho it's down to the fact that he did more with less. What he did with and for Liverpool is more impressive than what Pep did with City or Mourinho with Chelsea. Again; CONTEXT MATTERS. Not every job is the same. Different clubs have different circumstances, different resources, etc. Klopp has revived not one but TWO historic clubs. BVB and Liverpool. You have to look at the club he inherited vs Pep or Mourinho and what he had to work with. He inherited a club which hadn't won the league title since 1990. A bang average squad full of players like Milner, Henderson, Andy Carrol, Lallana, Balotelli, Josue, etc. Milner and Henderson were considered finished or scrubs until Klopp revived their careers. He turned decent players like Salah, Firmino or Mane into world class players. He worked on a much smaller budget than Pep and with inferior talents. But yet he won a league title and probably should have won 2-3 because they approached the 100 point mark a couple of times and failed to win. And High 90s in points would be enough to win a league title in virtually every other season. He also made 3 UCL finals in his time with Liverpool (more than Man City) and he won 1 of those. The 2 times he lost was both to RM who are the most successful side of the 21 century in Europe winning 5 titles in less than a decade. Pep and Mourinho were fantastic and achieved a lot. No doubt about it... But Mourinho walked into a side which was the richest team in Europe at the time right after Abramovich took over. He spent record amount at the time to strengthen an already strong side which was runners up the prior season under Ranieri. Chelsea never played the sort of football that Arsenal, or Liverpool or Man Utd or Man City played under Sir Alex, Wenger, Klopp or Pep. They were great, but they were more a physically imposing side that bullied and pushed others around. A defensive side. This also happened at a time where Arsenal started to decline and had no money due to having to pay off their new stadium so Arsenal instead of strengthening or replacing world class players with equal quality players actually kept selling off their best players like Vieira, Henry, Bergkamp, Pires, Sol Campbell, Ashley Cole. They never replaced those guys with equal quality. That's when they began their decline. And Man Utd was also in transition during those years with Ronaldo and Rooney being so young, midfield needing a freshening, etc. So there wasn't much genuine competition for that Chelsea side with all those resources. Once Man Utd rebuilt and started to reach a very high level again they overtook Chelsea and won 3 straight titles and Mourinho instead of fighting ran away to Italy to manage the best squad in Serie A at the time who had taken advantage of Calcioppolli destroying Juventus and Milan. Mourihno besides what he did at Porto ALWAYS went to the most talented squad in a given league who had the most resources at the time...Essentially, the team that was favorites to win anyways. He never revived any clubs like Sir Alex, Wenger or Klopp. He never developed players like they did which is a big part of being a world class coach. He was simply an opportunist who went to the most advantageous situations like at Chelsea or Inter and then RM with Ronaldo, Benzema, Kaka, etc. And this with Pep it's the same thing as Mourihno. But he achieved more in England and actually improves and develops young talents. But at City he was given a team which already won league titles. Best squad. Most money to spend for new players and any players he wants, so on and so forth. Again, it's the most advantageous position to be in as a coach. We've never seen whether Pep could revive a club and built it into a juggernaut. Like Wenger did at Arsenal, or Sir Alex or like Klopp has done numerous times. Those were extremely tough tasks and yet those guys did it with their genius. Pep has always worked with teams that were ALREADY juggernauts before he even arrived. The man's first job was being gifted that legendary Barca squad which featured Ronaldinho, prime Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Etoo, Henry, etc. A team which already won league titles and a UCL. Then right after that he took over Bayern who were just off the back of a treble! Then after Bayern the champions of England who had the best squad in EPL already AND unlimited resources. What I'm saying is PLENTY of managers could win and get massive results with the resources Pep has been given, But almost none can do what Sir Alex, Wenger or Klopp has done. And that for me is the biggest difference. I don't think Pep or Mourihno could have done at Dortmund or Liverpool what Klopp did. Or what Sir Alex did with Man Utd. Or what Wenger did for Arsenal.
If City had a really good budget, why wasn't it enough for Mancini and Pellegrini to stay long? Thinking money buys success in the manner that Pep did is a wrong way to think Not a single manager in history would have been able to take Pep's position in City and achieve what he has achieved.
Putting Wenger 5th is a horrendous take. He's the most influential manager in English football history, he changed how every club in this country operated and managed players
If we're only talking Premier League it goes Fergie, Pep, Mourinho, Wenger, Ranieri. Fergie is obvious - two three in a rows, 13 titles overall. Pep has won 3 in a row, Mourinho has retained. Wenger never retained but won 3 titles and went unbeaten in one of those seasons while Ranieri only won one but did so at 5000-1 odds having saved Leicester from relegation the year before. Klopp was great for Liverpool in giving them their first title in 30 years but when you look at the Premier League era as a whole, frankly 1 title isn't enough of a return for Klopp's time at Liverpool. Obviously, I'm talking about PL only. If you include other trophies for overall rankings then you can have a conversation about putting Klopp in the top 5 but as a Premier League manager, Klopp is on the same tier as the other managers who won one title.
Pep could win 6 league titles in 8 and fergie is "obvious", so would he have to win it 8/8 times? What more does Pep have to do in your opinion to be considered number 1. Or you just going to have Fergie 1 regardless because he was in the prem longer and has a better "legacy"?
I think Adam nailed it on the head when it comes to Pep. Obviously he never has too now, hes an elite manager whos won it all, but hes never built a club,. He did his apprenticeship at Barca's youth team, hes then only managed the biggest teams in the biggest leagues, who can out spend opposition and had great players already there for him. If Fergie had joined in 92-94ish time having been the youth team manager we would be having a different conversation. But he didnt, and he has success at Aberdeen on his CV. Managers need good players, look at Jose's Porto side, but theres something about success at Porto and Aberdeen that just more impressive than at Bayern or CIty. Leicester winning the league is the greatest achievement of all time, they had Kane, Mahrez, the son of the greatest PL GK of all time between the sticks, its still the greatest achievement. Those who love Pep will say he doesnt need it, but for me, if he wants to be the greatest manager ever, not just PL, but of all time, in any league, its the one thing missing.
Love how everyone disrespects Wenger Compare his spending with Pep's, Klopp's and Jose's And I know inflation and differnet times are also a factor BUT we all know he always had the least amount of money out of these 4 Wenger 22 seasons, spent 762,3 million Mourinho 12 seasons, spent 1,14 billion Pep 8 seasons, spent 1,05 billion Klopp 9 seasons, 613 million
Klopp won a cup double, won the ucl, won liverpools 1st prem title, add on the club world cup. All against clubs like united, chelsea and city spending billions. Imo it goes sir alex number 1, wenger 2, jose 3, klopp 4. If we win a cup treble this season he goes 3rd ahead of jose.
A problem I have with these when these are discussed is when questions are posed around "would this historic side beat this historic side". It's an impossible question, especially as the gap in years increases between teams. Football is ever evolving and improving, and that has only been encouraged, especially in England, with the commercialisation of the Premier League and the introduction of big money. It's hardly fair to compare older sides against the standards of more recent sides as they didn't have the same resources and understanding of the game that we have now.
Had Arsene Wenger not had to Sell players to keep within the limits of FFP whilst funding the stadium, he would have won more titles. Much better manager than Klopp
@@kieranj1332 Finished second once? uh no lmao that is literally wrong info. also you realise the emriates started construction before 2007 lol, the financial burden affected the clubs finances from around 2005 until 2019.
crazy how much more serious this is compared to when rory is yapping nonsense about salah, pochettino and emery and practically anybody else that is incredibly mid
We should stop judging only by who won it. We should also consider who came very close. A manager who gets to the finals 3 times for example has more respect to he who only gets there once and wins but then never leaves the group stage after that.
Good debate, but you have to decide, if it is only achievements in the PL or also outside of it. Because Rory mentions what Mourinho did in Inter and Real, which shouldn't be part of this. If you change the rules, than Guardiola, Klopp, Mourinho and Ancelotti are suddenly somewhere else. It would suddenly be Ferguson, Guardiola, Mourinho and Ancelotti in discussion for the first place and Klopp clearly 5th and Wenger 6th (because he didnt win the CL and reached final once...).
The only correct order 1. Sir Alex Ferguson 2. Pep Guardiolia 3. Jose Mourinho 4. Arsen Wenger. 5 Jurgen Kloop. A special mention to Claudio Rannire. That Leicester city fairytale was special.
Time is the only difference between Fergie and Pep. As a United fan what Fergie did was unrivaled. Several rebuilds, multiple changes to key personal and seamless transitions of the changes didn't effect results. Once Pep has done a minimum of 15 years you can start comparing what they have achieved. The other thing is Fergie oversaw a period where United were predominantly a British team with a few foreign players. He still was able to achieve success with this formula when Chelsea were playing 8-9 foreigners per game. He was still able to dominate a generation with still promoting local youth where other clubs just spent the money and bought ready made players. Two different generations but Pep has done incredibly well with a club that already had foundations in place and he came on and conducted the ingredients that were already there. Fergie grew the ingredients, harvested them, baked them and served them. Pep is just a master baker. 2 very different approaches and time will tell if Pep is in his class. It's a long time to win 13 league titles......
Out of the PL managers who have won PL once .Ancelloti, Ranieri, Dalglish , Pellegrini, Mancini...Klopp is best of that lot ..so 5th is correct place in this ranking!..Although Ranieri's achievement was special!
Great debate!!! SAF is still number 1 on the list of EPL managers. Rory is correct when he says Pep even making it a debate is a monumental achievement. More importantly, those five managers built the league up higher where the best players want to play there and English sides are winning European competitions. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
People say Klopp has been working with so little. Arsene Wenger was working with even less. He consistently made money on players. His budget was less than Klopp because he was investing in the new stadium as well. Wenger doesnt get enough credit for doing it with a smaller budget as well as selling players at the right time. he got bags of money for good players at the right time. This is why Wenger is just ahea of klopp for me.
Rory arguing that Wenger was better (which I agree with), but then goes on about Arsenal having the most stars, which surely contradicts his point about him being a better manager than Klopp?
I wouldn't expect a Man City fan to understand how good Wenger was. He was at arsenal before Man City existed. The reason Wenger struggled for the last 12 years is because Chelsea and then City came in and bought the league.
Thing is that with Klopp and Guardiola there's more recency bias therefore you can really start talking about their achievements 5 years after they stop managing in the prem...but I think everyone agrees that the 5 best premier league managers are Sir Alex, Mourinho, Wenger, Guardiola and Klopp. Personally I also would have Wenger over Klopp because of pretty much everything.
The top two are cemented its pep and fergie, the other 3 can be debated and interchangeable based on your criteria and and biases, to the Klopp v Wenger debate it's worth noting he won 7 FA cups, thats more than most teams in their history
1st Sir Alex 2nd Pep 3rd Mourinho 4th Wenger 5th klopp / Ancelotti Mourinho has to be 3rd only manager besides Sir Alex and Pep that has actually retained the league title
Bob Paisley in just 9yrs won 6 League Titles (3 peat), 3 CL's (2 back to back), 1 Uefa cup (against what would be CL clubs today) & 3 league cups. Most successful manager to manage in England.
Klopp would comfortably win as much as fergie & wenger in those days without oil country cheaters around. Fergie & wenger would win far less if they were around today.
Buvey is a madman.... No way Klopp above Wenger. Klopp had 2 major trophies in a 7 year span.... Wenger had 2 league doubles and a title winning season without being beaten in a 7 year span. No debate whatsoever.
What a stupid argument. Comparing the old arsenal with the liverpool team with 99 points. The football has changed so much since then to even make such a comparison on playing style and intensity. Klopp won one title in 9 years and you excuse it saying he was competing with pep. Wenger won 3 titles competing with the greatest manager ever in Sir Alex.
people forget if the 19 and 22 titles which were decided by one point went to klopp he would have as many titles as pep,jose and wenger then it would be a great debate
That's irrelevant, Wenger would have 7 prems if he didnt come second, Fergie would have 17 etc etc you can say that about literally any manager so it means nothing
Fergie Klopp Guadiola Mourinho Wenger "Almost winning a final" is a bogger achievement than finishing second in the league. Or 3rd or 4th. One trophy a season and a bag of finals vs making a living off scraping 4th. Scraping 4th was Houllier and Benitez, they were close to Wengers level, Klopp is elite
1. Sir Alex Ferguson 2. Pep Guardiola 3. Arsene Wenger 4. Jurgen Klopp 5. Jose Mourinho Jose is one of my favourite managers of all time but I believe in this debate Loyalty plays a big factor and Jose has None 0 ✊
Mourinho has coached Unaio De Leira 2001-2002 Don't even know where they are now. Smaller team vibe. Porto 2002 - 2004 They had not won the League since 1999. He came and won consecutively And finally European champion his 2nd year. Porto hasn't been European champion since he left. Chelsea 2004-2008 Smaller Team. They had not won a league title since 1955. Bammm two straight league titles 05 and 06. It took Chelsea 4 seasons to reclaim the epl since he left. Inter Milan 2008-2010 They had not won the champions league since 1965... bam he did it 2010. Plus the 2 league titles and a fifa club world cup. They haven't been European champions again. And took them 10 years to reclaim the serie A since he left. Madrid 2010-2013 Before he arrived Madrid last la liga title was 3 seasons earlier. Last Copa Del Rey title was in 1993. He won both in his in two seasons Chelsea 2013-15 They had not won the League since 2010. Bam ... he did it again in 2015. United 2016-2018 Their last European title was in 2008 he came in and won the europa league. They had struggled for even a top 4 placement but successfully qualified for europe under him (champs league) Spurs 2019-2021 Nothing special. Smaller team vibe. Roma 2021-2024 Smaller Team Again. Wow. Won the inaugural Europa Conference League 2022. And runners up of the europa league the following year 2023. This is what we call An Over Achiever
Ignoring the financial circumstances in which every manager operated is really unfair. Guardiola and Mourinho had all the money in the world. Ferguson had financial power. None of them had to sell their best players every year for a decade and try to compete.
Mourinho isn't given enough credit for walking back in to the prem almost 10 years later and winning the league. I doubt any other manager on the list, bar Fergie and possibly Pep, could do that.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Great debate..like back in the kick off days, no trolling for views, just everyone giving their honest opinions. We need more content like this.
I miss the ball street days
@@hcamp74 ball street was goated
Totally agree. The majority of stuff they do these days is over the top, pure reactionary, and baiting for likes, unfortunately.
My thoughts exactly. I wish they talked like this more often.
Real talk
Wenger finished in the top 4 every season on a shoestring budget to pay for the emirates stadium for over a decade until he left, even Klopp wasn't that consistent
Wenger sacrificed 5 years of potential success from stubbornness in not allowing any other staff help with transfers and his stubbornness to trying to replicate Tika taka
For 20 straight seasons
Klopp underfunded as a reason does stink when that was a big issue under Wenger
Never won a European cup though, not even a Europa league over a 20 year career wtf
@@ACE360xnot really because he was funded just fine until 2006, which is before he won his titles. Jurgen Klopp had a very middling budget for his entire tenure
From 96-06 wenger was great he won 3 titles,2 doubles being invincible and then with a shortage of budget he competed with fergie and chelsea's money and city lately.
He never competed with city
And stunk the place out for about 14 years after
@@Bomberman60001got no idea about football have you?
Wenger from Wenger 97-08 was great, 2008-2013 was horrible. 2014-2016 was ok. 2017-18 was bad.
wish he left in 2009
Buvey talking about Klopp and money… as if Wenger didn’t have over a decade paying off the Emirates debt. Look at some of those dross squads - Gervinho, Djourou, Chamakh, etc. still got into the top four and competed some years. The vast majority of other managers would’ve walked when they had the opportunity.
Christopher rea
and what did he win them seasons
Ok but he didn’t win a premier league for that decade, left arsenal in shambles when he left cus he couldn’t have been bothered about youth and development, look at where Liverpool are under klopp now, only other managers I’ve seen do that are pep and sir Alex, ik we didn’t win the premier league a lot, but it also has to be said that we got 97,91 and 99 points in a space of 4 years while also being in 3 champions league finals in those 4 years, when has arsenal wenger ever done that, if not for ramos being one of the dirtiest players in history breaking salahs arm and karius having the worst performance of all time in a game we would have won that final, then go to the other final against Madrid, courteous had arguably the greatest performance in a cl final ? These aren’t excuses by the way they are just variables and reason to why we lost, and don’t get me started on the premier league.
“Klopps only ever won one trophy in a season”
Well that’s just wrong mate. That season when Liverpool almost won the quadruple, they did win the domestic cup double.
Plus (if you want to count these as major trophies) we won the super cup and the club world Cup in the same season we won the league
Kids these days don't realise how good Wenger was. Entertaining, revolutionary, trophy winning football, then suddenly hindered financially just as money started spiralling out of control in the Premier League (Chelsea & City), and still managed to consistently finish top 4. For me he's at least 3rd on the list.
Probably 3rd or 4th yeh depending on opinion.
Bob paisley:
9 years at Liverpool: 20 trophies total , 3 champions league titles, 6 English champions(premier league), 6 super cups etc
An underrated maneger for sure
1. Sir Alex Ferguson
2. Pep Guardiola
3. Jose Mourinho
4. Arsene Wenger
5. Jurgen Klopp
Mourinho winning 2 back to back PL titles then coming close 2nd on the 3rd season. Coming back 10 years later in a totally different PL and winning it a 3rd time being the first manager to win it first from day 1 to the last day is truly incredible Also Wenger did nothing in Europe and did 8 years with 0 trophies which is laughable for any top manager so it has to be
Ferguson. Jose . Pep . Klopp . Wenger
@@BrandonAyongBro Uncle Mou is my all-time favorite manager but his floor is just too low compared to the two above him. Now if you want to talk in terms of peak, I actually do agree with Rory's take.
@@potheadesens8725i would make that If jose got the city job in 2016 he would have around the same number of trophies than pep under those conditions but pep does play consistently well he takes Jose on that but a strong argument is that Jose has a great record vs Ferguson a ridiculously amazing record vs Wenger and a decent one vs pep
Correct
Can’t have two sacked managers who never won everything in England over klopp is outrageous
Not close between Wenger and Klopp if we're looking at PL managers. Klopp is fantastic and as a United fan, I envy Liverpool for having him all these years. But Wenger's legacy in PL is closer to Fergie and Pep than to Klopp. Absolutely top 3. In my opinion:
1. Sir Alex 2. Pep 3. Wenger 4. Mourinho 5. Klopp
@Romulan85 if you're going to call someone ignorant, at least make a coherent point first? Wenger revolutionized the way football was treated and played in England, won more than Klopp and is the only manager to win it without losing in the league. His records stand out when compared to the rest in the PL. Klopp's doesn't.
I dont blame buvey. He started watching football in 2008
😂😭🤣😭
United haven't been tip since I understand alot of teenagers running around never remember a united winning a trophy. Just pure indoctrination
Buvey's primary point for Klopp is so stupid. There's so much more money in the prem now - it dwarfs all other countries. Klopp's best side might beat United's - does that make him better than Sir Alex?
That’s generous, would’ve been much later than that 😂
That’s fifteen years, my guy.
Buvy doesn’t seem to realise that in a lot of the wenger and fergie era the prem wasn’t the behemoth it is now and the talent was much more spread out. Serie A teams were stacked as hell, so were the German, Spanish and even the French teams so it was much harder to win in Europe.
But the point you're missing is that the PL is far more competitive now. The overall quality of players across all PL teams is considerably closer across the board, the only difference is that the top 6 have higher quality in depth. There is a reason why teams like West Ham, Brighton, Villa and Newcastle are all competing in/winning European competitions now. Half of these PL sides would batter the mid table sides of the 2000s/2010s
@@B_ennit’s not far more competitive, city are this eras Man Utd and Liverpool was arsenal
@@civildiscourse7626I love how you just skipped most of what he said
@@roronoalaw7772 what have I skipped?
I don't understand why it's "Top 5 PL Managers EVER!" but a lot of the criteria seems to be based on trophies outside of the PL…
sounds like something an arsenal fan would say
Depends if they mean best premier league managers. Or best managers in the Premier League era. Both technically can have different criteria. The era opens up cup competition. Just have to assume it's that.
Do those trophies not get the managers to the positions to be the best?
@@lukeparker5191 exactly. They do it on purpose, so that we comment on it.
@@zakcunningham7827 it is actually confusing from them, because if it would be how you say, then you have to put Ancelotti in the talking, because of all he did outside of it and Pep, Jose, Fergie need to be in the conversation with him for the 1st place. Wenger would be behind Klopp 🤫
Arsene Wenger was also under financial restriction after building the emirates stadium, so that fsg point with klopp doesnt really count. Having said that i think it´s fair to say that its hard to compare different managers in different eras with all of them having their own defining attributes and weaknesses you could point to. Love Arsene being an Arsenal fan for 20 years because of him and some players of course, but also love Kloppo as a german and football enjoyer!
You can the same with Liverpool, all the money they invested besides mane and salah and Robertson , all was reinvested with the couthino money
I agree it's so hard to judge based purely on results... The amount of money managers can spend is a massive factor. It's ferg, pep, klopp,Wenger and mourinho for me. And apart from mourinho the others are close.
It's frustrating when Buvey used to point out arsenals recent spending like it isn't normal for a team of their stature
Wenger stayed there for 22 years, devoted his life for the club, when he could have left earlier. Klopp himself wants to leave now, as anyone would want a break. Wenger stayed there however, accepted the modest budgets and just about held Arsenal. Longevity is highly underrated.
Between 2019-2020 Liverpool took 103 points out of 105 but nah Adam thinks they’d win a cup final 😂
So Liverpool would win the league then, but Cup competition is very different. Liverpool have one every cup under Klopp, but only once, how many teams and managers have won multiple cups, in the same time period as Klopps had at Liverpool.
Buvey only has Klopp above Wenger to make Pep's accomplishments look more impressive, transparently propping up his position
The other 2 had Pep at 2nd aswell though
No actually . Like Wenger wasn't that good mate
@@grealish2234Wasn’t that good? Absolute dribble coming from you here
@@xaoc6084 Probably to young to remember Wenger
Pep is very obviously second though.
Buvey truly showed in 5 minutes that he's only followed football for 12 years, lads dense!! "never seen a team batter city the way liverpool have" must forget football started before saudis came in
Okay I take back what I said about him been traumatised by the beatings Arsenal used to inflict on them at Maine Road 🤣
1. Fergie
2. Wenger
3. Klopp
4. Guardiola
5. Mourinho
Anything Pep and Jose achieved was off the back of billionaire owners. How Wenger and Klopp managed to stay competitive and winning trophies despite their net spend being significantly less than their rivals is what sets them apart. Fergie is just the goat, longevity, rebuilding teams, trophies he’s number 1. But Guardiola and Mourinho’s success is based on financial dopping
Say your a bitter cry baby without saying your a bitter cry baby
Make sure Peps deleted from the debate for good once City's found guilty guys!
2005 to 2014 is not over a decade it's 8 seasons of no trophies and a few FA cup finals as opposed to a record 7. Yes we beat Hull and Villa in finals but we had to beat Liverpool, Spurs and Man Utd to win those cups.
Wenger won 3 prems and 4 fa cups in 8 years, klopp got 1 and the ucl. Numbers don’t lie buvey 🤣
Lmao this is like saying Liverpool won every trophy available to them in 4 years between 2019 and 2022. We get couldn’t win one UCL in 20 years mate 😂😂
@@juanteranlopez4900 not really cos the super cup and club World Cup are one off games that no other big club counts, only pool fans do it to pad out klopps record. And before people start crying I actually have klopp as an all time T5 coach in the prem but to put him above wenger when he won 3 prems in 6 seasons whilst going against SAF united is trolling 🤣
@@juanteranlopez4900 however I will concede if Liverpool win the league this year I may just slip klopp above Wenger due to the weight of the champions league and the amount leagues being marginal
1 prem, 1 fa cap, 1 champions league, league cup and community in the same time frame, ontop of the level football being played and Wengers last 9 years damaging himself- theres definitely an argument tbf
There was less competition in Wengers time though to be fair. Newcastle used to finish 3rd with Titus Bramble, Robbie Elliott, Aaron Hughes, Andy O'Brien, Olivier Bernard, Jermaine Jenas, Gary Speed, Kieran Dyer, Lua Lua, Darren Ambrose and Ameobi playing for them all the time. Only real good players were Given, Solano, Robert, Bellamy and Shearer.
Wengers first title, Liverpool finished 3rd, this was Liverpools average starting XI:
James; Babb, Matteo, Kvarme, Harkness; McManaman, Ince, Leonhardsen, Bjornebye; Fowler, Owen. 7 of that Liverpool team were mediocre at best and they used to finish 3rd, teams now have better teams and squads and can't get in the top 10.
Ask a city fan United fan and a Chelsea fan who the best managers have been and they'll put their own managers in the top three lol what a shock!
Sir Alex
Pep
Mourinho
Wenger
Klopp
- Guardiola already won Treble
- Scenes if he stays in PL 26yrs
- Ferguson over Pep?😂
Remove Alex Ferguson out of the one spot
The guy only won 2 champions league in 26yes in charge as United Manager
I wouldn't put pep on the list due to the 115 charges however IF and it's a big IF they are clear of all charges then fair enough but for now not on the list
- LiVARpool caught Hacking
- LiVARpool not considered Cheats
- City found Not Guilty in Court
- City are considered Cheats?😂
@@HumanBeingsRThinkingBeings the charges for man city are still going and Liverpool did not cheat to win and look at This season Liverpool got robbed by var
Rory commenting on football is hilarious
Tory Rory at it again
1. Fergie
2. Pep
3. Wenger
4. Mourinho
5. Klopp
BRIAN CLOUGH
I think a lot of people forget what Wenger had to work with after the move to the Emirates. He lost all of his best players and couldn't replace those levels because he was always on a tight budget
Theres a strong argument that Wenger took the sacrifice so that Arsenal could become a club that could financially compete in the future. But theres also that his talent ID wasnt as good as it had been before, lets not forget the previous Arsenal teams he build were done so with bargains that turned out to be some of the greatest players of all time
@@g.g.baxter4868 while it is true Wenger signed some questionable players, there's a lot of good players he never got to sign even after scouting because of funds
Wenger was top drawer for the first half of his Arsenal career! But you can’t just ignore that he turned into a laughing stock for the last 10 years
It’s hard to decide the 4th and 5th spot between him and Klopp
We all know above that is:
1. Sir Alex Ferguson
2. Pep Guardiola
3. Jose Mourinho
Klopp only has 1 more major title than Pellegrini at City
Put the 19/20 Liverpool side in a one off friendly game against 13/14 Man City and Liverpool would absolutely steamroll them. We're talking about a team that went unbeaten for 44 games, only 5 games off Arsenal's record
Klopps title winning side finished on 99 points nearly 20 clear of their closest opposition whereas Pellegrinis finished on 86, courtesy of a Liverpool bottlejob
They're not even remotely comparable
@@fivestarman5130Liverpool 19/20 would probably beat city 19/20 but that city team always dominated since they’re not just a group of individuals, they’re an actual team
Origi has 1 CL....MC has 1 CL
I’m not say Ranieri is top 5 but he has the single greatest premier league achievement as manager
If it was purely on who had won the PL the most, nothing else, then its Fergie, Pep, Joint 3rd Jose/Wenger..... thats all the multiple time winners, unless Liverpool win it this year, theres a strong argument that top of the single time winners would be Ranieri, and therefore 5th
@@g.g.baxter4868 well yeh no shit that’s the list if based on that 😂
I am an arsenal fan because of Wenger, in my country Serie A was popular but after the 98 world cup the Premier league got popular mainly because of the Wenger Ferguson derby. For a lot of us the most entertaining league is the Premier league which means you owe a lot to Wenger.
Before I even watch this. Adam picks SAF Buvey Picks Pep. And Rory has the deciding vote.
The way Liverpool and city fans suck each other off is crazy
You can't blame us
We have probably the best squad in epl history
The Liverpool and city teams in their prime beats most teams in epl history
They were just head and shoulders above everyone
Called mutual respect you’d get if ur club had any 😂
@@BiggestBirdonMarsthat’s more a damning indictment to the strength of the league than a boast on city and Liverpool.
All a record points tally tells us is the gulf in quality between the top and bottom half.
And the gap widens by the year…as the bottom rung collect their parachute payments, bounce down and return for the next year
@@blablaonblabla7322 lmao
Isnt this one of the most competitive seasons in the league???
Yet you claim it keeps expanding
Man city and Liverpool just played next level football not cuz the other teams were very bad but just cuz they were that good
When barca beat United 3-1 did it mean United had bad players? It meant barca were just too good
Not to mention English teams are doing well in Europe now
Trying to downplay the quality of man city and Liverpool to the excuse that the other were bad as if football back then in the bottom teams were in the quality of today
fr😂😂
If Pep manages as long as SAF, he will have 2x the trophy cabinet.
And 115 more charges 🤡
Well that’s a fucking pointless comment 😂
Buvey didn’t watch football when Arsenal and AW were winning titles. He became a football fan in 2009 when his plastic club was founded.
Buvey says FSG didn't invest so they ruined Klopp's chances yet Arsenal spent fk all money (net spend) for close to a decade after they moved into the emirates and he still managed to win some FA cups at least, sold Henry, Fabregas, Van Persie etc and then never replaced them with anyone. Wenger also had to manage against Fergie and prime Man Utd so its not like he didn't have any competition.
🗣️💯
"Klopps only ever won 1 trophy in a season"... He literally won a double 2 seasons back beating Chelsea in both finals😂😂😂
Nah bruh Rory's take on Jose about him being on par with sir alex during his "peak" is outrageous 💀
Rory annoys me but he is right on that “mourinho peak” a lot of it didn’t happen in the pl so it’s a little invalid in this argument. 03/04- 11/12 is comparable to the greats
The Invincibles would dominate Liverpool. Van Dijk can't deal with Strikers in a 1v1 got rinsed by Toney, Mitrovic and more, Henry and Bergkamp would bully him. Aura defending backing off players until they get free shots off. Salah with his bottom 15th percentile take on success in Europe, Cole would have him locked down.
Henderson vs Viera?
Liverpool the most overrated era in Premier League history.
Virgil van dijk dominated mbappe in a 1 vs 1, who could be described as mbetter than henry, certainly on his way there. The invincibles are unbelievably overrated, so many draws and not even near the most point in a premier league season. How come they werent centurions like city? Even liverpool were only a point off being centurions.
@@micahkunjiraman542 - average post 2017 social media fan that brings up points arguments and still can't understand the flaw in it.💀
Klopp could never guarantee a top 4 finish like Wenger could
@@Fmfcg united in their worst era finished higher than klopps liverpool 4/8 times. hes lucky he won a covid title
@@Nightsu 2 out of the last 3 seasons United have finished higher than Liverpool 😂 that's Ole and Ten Hag too
Super 6 works only if located in UK? I love in Malta, is it possible?
Buvy doesn’t have enough football knowledge. Wenger has 3 titles in 22, fair. He won those three within 6 years, but that’s a title every 7 years. He’s the most successful manager in the FA Cup, better than SAF. He’s credited with revolutionising the league in England. Klopp has been immense for Liverpool but Wenger’s legacy is bigger and better
Rory talking about Chelsea giving up on 95pts, well that’s similar to Wengers invincibles. 4 of their 12 draws came in their last 7 games. The league was wrapped up and they were playing conservatively to remain unbeaten.
Pep Ferguson Wenger Mourinho Klopp. This is the order. No need to debate
No way ur putting the chequebook fraud above the goat Fergie 💀
My 5 are Sir Alex, Wenger, Mourinho, Klopp & Pep. Not even gonna bother trying to rank them in order because it’s genuinely impossible
I love Klopp, but to have Klopp above Wenger is insane. Klopp has been at Liverpool for 8 years, and won 1 title. this is top PREMIER LEAGUE managers not all time managers. In the prem Wenger vs Klopp isnt close.
I support United and have only just watched this. Wenger is miiiiiiiiles clear of Klopp. That decade after the emirates move, he worked absolute wonders to get them top 4 year after year with hardly any financial backing. I was in school/6th form for most of that period, and I used to mock Arsenal fans week in out, because as a united fan it was delicious to see (especially with my most formative years seeing the brilliant Arsenal teams) but you always knew that Wenger was a fantastic manager throttled by the lack of backing.
I think people have have Forgot about George Graham
underated stat: Klopp is simultaneously the last manager to win the premier league not managing man city and the last manager to win the bundesliga not managing bayern
Do one of these but for managers that haven't managed at a top 6 club. I think that would be super interesting.
Pep may not have been around in the period when those charges are being investigated for. But they effect whether he was at city in the first place. How do you explain going from having an owner that went bankrupt in 2008 and winning nothing to attracting the best manager around in 2016..... Fishy
Depends if it's based on Premier league performance, European competition performance with a Premier league team, or on overall career.
My list:
1. Sir Alex
2. Wenger
3. Klopp
4. Pep
5. Mourinho
Reasoning: Sir Alex is pretty obvious so I won't go too deep into it. But he's won by far the most PL titles. Put Man Utd back on the map and kept them at the top for over 20 years. Reinvented and rebuilt the squad after the 90s and built another squad that won 3 straight PL titles AND a UCL in 2008.
Wenger and Klopp I put over Pep and Mourinho because they did simply didn't have the resources of Pep or Mourinho yet still revived 2 massive clubs. Context and resources matters. Wenger changed English football and football culture by making it more professional, doing away with the drinking, etc. His team played brilliant modern football that simply wasn't seen in England at the time. He started the first real wave of bringing in exotic foreign players. Yeah man Utd had Cantona who was the first, but Wenger did that with virtually half his squad which was unheard of at the time. He was also a master of unearthing talents and developing players from mere "talents" to genuine world beaters. Henry, Vieira, Cesc, RVP, Ashley Cole, Anelka, etc, etc. He won 3 league titles, 2 doubles and went one season undefeated. And throw in a UCL and Uefa Cup final for good measure.
And as for Klopp being ahead of Pep and Mourinho it's down to the fact that he did more with less. What he did with and for Liverpool is more impressive than what Pep did with City or Mourinho with Chelsea. Again; CONTEXT MATTERS. Not every job is the same. Different clubs have different circumstances, different resources, etc. Klopp has revived not one but TWO historic clubs. BVB and Liverpool. You have to look at the club he inherited vs Pep or Mourinho and what he had to work with. He inherited a club which hadn't won the league title since 1990. A bang average squad full of players like Milner, Henderson, Andy Carrol, Lallana, Balotelli, Josue, etc. Milner and Henderson were considered finished or scrubs until Klopp revived their careers. He turned decent players like Salah, Firmino or Mane into world class players. He worked on a much smaller budget than Pep and with inferior talents. But yet he won a league title and probably should have won 2-3 because they approached the 100 point mark a couple of times and failed to win. And High 90s in points would be enough to win a league title in virtually every other season. He also made 3 UCL finals in his time with Liverpool (more than Man City) and he won 1 of those. The 2 times he lost was both to RM who are the most successful side of the 21 century in Europe winning 5 titles in less than a decade.
Pep and Mourinho were fantastic and achieved a lot. No doubt about it... But Mourinho walked into a side which was the richest team in Europe at the time right after Abramovich took over. He spent record amount at the time to strengthen an already strong side which was runners up the prior season under Ranieri. Chelsea never played the sort of football that Arsenal, or Liverpool or Man Utd or Man City played under Sir Alex, Wenger, Klopp or Pep. They were great, but they were more a physically imposing side that bullied and pushed others around. A defensive side. This also happened at a time where Arsenal started to decline and had no money due to having to pay off their new stadium so Arsenal instead of strengthening or replacing world class players with equal quality players actually kept selling off their best players like Vieira, Henry, Bergkamp, Pires, Sol Campbell, Ashley Cole. They never replaced those guys with equal quality. That's when they began their decline. And Man Utd was also in transition during those years with Ronaldo and Rooney being so young, midfield needing a freshening, etc. So there wasn't much genuine competition for that Chelsea side with all those resources. Once Man Utd rebuilt and started to reach a very high level again they overtook Chelsea and won 3 straight titles and Mourinho instead of fighting ran away to Italy to manage the best squad in Serie A at the time who had taken advantage of Calcioppolli destroying Juventus and Milan. Mourihno besides what he did at Porto ALWAYS went to the most talented squad in a given league who had the most resources at the time...Essentially, the team that was favorites to win anyways. He never revived any clubs like Sir Alex, Wenger or Klopp. He never developed players like they did which is a big part of being a world class coach. He was simply an opportunist who went to the most advantageous situations like at Chelsea or Inter and then RM with Ronaldo, Benzema, Kaka, etc.
And this with Pep it's the same thing as Mourihno. But he achieved more in England and actually improves and develops young talents. But at City he was given a team which already won league titles. Best squad. Most money to spend for new players and any players he wants, so on and so forth. Again, it's the most advantageous position to be in as a coach. We've never seen whether Pep could revive a club and built it into a juggernaut. Like Wenger did at Arsenal, or Sir Alex or like Klopp has done numerous times. Those were extremely tough tasks and yet those guys did it with their genius. Pep has always worked with teams that were ALREADY juggernauts before he even arrived. The man's first job was being gifted that legendary Barca squad which featured Ronaldinho, prime Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Etoo, Henry, etc. A team which already won league titles and a UCL. Then right after that he took over Bayern who were just off the back of a treble! Then after Bayern the champions of England who had the best squad in EPL already AND unlimited resources.
What I'm saying is PLENTY of managers could win and get massive results with the resources Pep has been given, But almost none can do what Sir Alex, Wenger or Klopp has done. And that for me is the biggest difference. I don't think Pep or Mourihno could have done at Dortmund or Liverpool what Klopp did. Or what Sir Alex did with Man Utd. Or what Wenger did for Arsenal.
Superb comment. Read it all.
If City had a really good budget, why wasn't it enough for Mancini and Pellegrini to stay long?
Thinking money buys success in the manner that Pep did is a wrong way to think
Not a single manager in history would have been able to take Pep's position in City and achieve what he has achieved.
Putting Wenger 5th is a horrendous take. He's the most influential manager in English football history, he changed how every club in this country operated and managed players
1. Sir Alex Ferguson
2. pep guardiola
3. Arsene Wenger
4. Jose Mourinho
5. Jurgen Klopp
This is my list and being a Liverpool fan for 23 years -
Bob Paisley won 3 CL's, 6 Titles, 1 Uefa Cup & 3 lg cups in 9yrs. Just sayin!
Pep has to be deleted from the list for good once City's found guilty.
@@potjhm1 Debate is about Premier League managers, Paisley was before. He'd be in the discussion for all-time English football though
That gives the false impression of some managers being way better than they actually were.
If we're only talking Premier League it goes Fergie, Pep, Mourinho, Wenger, Ranieri.
Fergie is obvious - two three in a rows, 13 titles overall. Pep has won 3 in a row, Mourinho has retained. Wenger never retained but won 3 titles and went unbeaten in one of those seasons while Ranieri only won one but did so at 5000-1 odds having saved Leicester from relegation the year before.
Klopp was great for Liverpool in giving them their first title in 30 years but when you look at the Premier League era as a whole, frankly 1 title isn't enough of a return for Klopp's time at Liverpool. Obviously, I'm talking about PL only. If you include other trophies for overall rankings then you can have a conversation about putting Klopp in the top 5 but as a Premier League manager, Klopp is on the same tier as the other managers who won one title.
Because Ranieri has clearly won more than 1?
Pep could win 6 league titles in 8 and fergie is "obvious", so would he have to win it 8/8 times? What more does Pep have to do in your opinion to be considered number 1.
Or you just going to have Fergie 1 regardless because he was in the prem longer and has a better "legacy"?
Buvey putting Klopp over Wenger is just ridiculous
Was a debate 2-3 years ago but one premier league over wengers 3 in the same time frame speaks volume
Klopp goes over Wenger if he wins another league title this season
@@CGSocDem Big IF
@@CGSocDem how that would only be 2. One of them Wenger went unbeaten.
@@hermansidiq9393 yes sir!
Mourinho never won the champions league as an epl manager.
We talking about best epl managers.
Jurgen Klopp and Pep have never been sacked as managers, while Mourinho prop hits double figures in sackings
I think Adam nailed it on the head when it comes to Pep. Obviously he never has too now, hes an elite manager whos won it all, but hes never built a club,. He did his apprenticeship at Barca's youth team, hes then only managed the biggest teams in the biggest leagues, who can out spend opposition and had great players already there for him. If Fergie had joined in 92-94ish time having been the youth team manager we would be having a different conversation. But he didnt, and he has success at Aberdeen on his CV. Managers need good players, look at Jose's Porto side, but theres something about success at Porto and Aberdeen that just more impressive than at Bayern or CIty. Leicester winning the league is the greatest achievement of all time, they had Kane, Mahrez, the son of the greatest PL GK of all time between the sticks, its still the greatest achievement. Those who love Pep will say he doesnt need it, but for me, if he wants to be the greatest manager ever, not just PL, but of all time, in any league, its the one thing missing.
This channel has replaced Football Daily in my life.
Love how everyone disrespects Wenger
Compare his spending with Pep's, Klopp's and Jose's
And I know inflation and differnet times are also a factor BUT we all know he always had the least amount of money out of these 4
Wenger 22 seasons, spent 762,3 million
Mourinho 12 seasons, spent 1,14 billion
Pep 8 seasons, spent 1,05 billion
Klopp 9 seasons, 613 million
Wenger had a shoestring budget with the stadium build and such. What a disingenuous view
Klopp won a cup double, won the ucl, won liverpools 1st prem title, add on the club world cup. All against clubs like united, chelsea and city spending billions. Imo it goes sir alex number 1, wenger 2, jose 3, klopp 4. If we win a cup treble this season he goes 3rd ahead of jose.
If its based upon PL only than yeah SAF should be first if its overall than Pep without a doubt
A problem I have with these when these are discussed is when questions are posed around "would this historic side beat this historic side". It's an impossible question, especially as the gap in years increases between teams. Football is ever evolving and improving, and that has only been encouraged, especially in England, with the commercialisation of the Premier League and the introduction of big money. It's hardly fair to compare older sides against the standards of more recent sides as they didn't have the same resources and understanding of the game that we have now.
So wait 115 charges changes peps legacy, but doesn't change klopps?
Had Arsene Wenger not had to Sell players to keep within the limits of FFP whilst funding the stadium, he would have won more titles. Much better manager than Klopp
I agree, the fact we where even in a title race in 15/16 with only 3 truly good players is insane
he didnt have to sell players.. those players wanted to leave because they wanted to win
Talking absolute shit, didn’t win a title in the 3 years leading up to selling the emirate’s, finished 2nd once.
Klopp won 1 in 9 years @@kieranj1332
@@kieranj1332 Finished second once? uh no lmao that is literally wrong info. also you realise the emriates started construction before 2007 lol, the financial burden affected the clubs finances from around 2005 until 2019.
crazy how much more serious this is compared to when rory is yapping nonsense about salah, pochettino and emery and practically anybody else that is incredibly mid
It drives me mad people saying that Arsenals 02 double side isn’t there best side. It clearly was. I remember it clear as day.
We should stop judging only by who won it. We should also consider who came very close. A manager who gets to the finals 3 times for example has more respect to he who only gets there once and wins but then never leaves the group stage after that.
Good debate, but you have to decide, if it is only achievements in the PL or also outside of it. Because Rory mentions what Mourinho did in Inter and Real, which shouldn't be part of this. If you change the rules, than Guardiola, Klopp, Mourinho and Ancelotti are suddenly somewhere else. It would suddenly be Ferguson, Guardiola, Mourinho and Ancelotti in discussion for the first place and Klopp clearly 5th and Wenger 6th (because he didnt win the CL and reached final once...).
The only correct order
1. Sir Alex Ferguson
2. Pep Guardiolia
3. Jose Mourinho
4. Arsen Wenger.
5 Jurgen Kloop.
A special mention to Claudio Rannire. That Leicester city fairytale was special.
I'd have arsene above Mourinho, He was in the league for longer, did more with a much smaller budget and took on prime man u
Time is the only difference between Fergie and Pep. As a United fan what Fergie did was unrivaled. Several rebuilds, multiple changes to key personal and seamless transitions of the changes didn't effect results. Once Pep has done a minimum of 15 years you can start comparing what they have achieved. The other thing is Fergie oversaw a period where United were predominantly a British team with a few foreign players. He still was able to achieve success with this formula when Chelsea were playing 8-9 foreigners per game. He was still able to dominate a generation with still promoting local youth where other clubs just spent the money and bought ready made players. Two different generations but Pep has done incredibly well with a club that already had foundations in place and he came on and conducted the ingredients that were already there. Fergie grew the ingredients, harvested them, baked them and served them. Pep is just a master baker. 2 very different approaches and time will tell if Pep is in his class. It's a long time to win 13 league titles......
Buevy is genuinely a spanner
Out of the PL managers who have won PL once .Ancelloti, Ranieri, Dalglish , Pellegrini, Mancini...Klopp is best of that lot ..so 5th is correct place in this ranking!..Although Ranieri's achievement was special!
People saying klopp had no money have obviously forgotten the amount of money Wenger spent....not even close
Great debate!!! SAF is still number 1 on the list of EPL managers. Rory is correct when he says Pep even making it a debate is a monumental achievement. More importantly, those five managers built the league up higher where the best players want to play there and English sides are winning European competitions. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
People say Klopp has been working with so little. Arsene Wenger was working with even less. He consistently made money on players. His budget was less than Klopp because he was investing in the new stadium as well. Wenger doesnt get enough credit for doing it with a smaller budget as well as selling players at the right time. he got bags of money for good players at the right time. This is why Wenger is just ahea of klopp for me.
The prem are changing ffp rules next year so Man City won’t get done
Rory arguing that Wenger was better (which I agree with), but then goes on about Arsenal having the most stars, which surely contradicts his point about him being a better manager than Klopp?
I wouldn't expect a Man City fan to understand how good Wenger was. He was at arsenal before Man City existed. The reason Wenger struggled for the last 12 years is because Chelsea and then City came in and bought the league.
Saying klopp has never won more than 1 trophy in a season when they literally did a domestic double last season 😂
Thing is that with Klopp and Guardiola there's more recency bias therefore you can really start talking about their achievements 5 years after they stop managing in the prem...but I think everyone agrees that the 5 best premier league managers are Sir Alex, Mourinho, Wenger, Guardiola and Klopp. Personally I also would have Wenger over Klopp because of pretty much everything.
The top two are cemented its pep and fergie, the other 3 can be debated and interchangeable based on your criteria and and biases, to the Klopp v Wenger debate it's worth noting he won 7 FA cups, thats more than most teams in their history
1st Sir Alex
2nd Pep
3rd Mourinho
4th Wenger
5th klopp / Ancelotti
Mourinho has to be 3rd only manager besides Sir Alex and Pep that has actually retained the league title
Bob Paisley in just 9yrs won 6 League Titles (3 peat), 3 CL's (2 back to back), 1 Uefa cup (against what would be CL clubs today) & 3 league cups. Most successful manager to manage in England.
@@potjhm1 PREMIER LEAGUE MANAGERS.
@@whaleedeunos730 Just reminding people most are p*ss poor compared to the greatest.
Pep is clear of Fergie, UK people will never admit but we all know its true
Overall, I'd agree, but this is talking about PL specifically. Pep doesn't have the longevity in England to have achieved what Fergie did.
putting klopp over wenger is disrespectful to wenger, people only rememeber the back end of wengers reign
Klopp would comfortably win as much as fergie & wenger in those days without oil country cheaters around. Fergie & wenger would win far less if they were around today.
Buvey is a madman.... No way Klopp above Wenger. Klopp had 2 major trophies in a 7 year span.... Wenger had 2 league doubles and a title winning season without being beaten in a 7 year span. No debate whatsoever.
No debate needed Sir Alex will forever be the greatest manager in premier league history. Period
Rory looking like he's about to invite Niko bowling
Wenger First - Built a Stadium, Sold Players to repay the loan and still managed to get top 4. Bigger Achievement that winning a title. Period
1. Sir Alex Ferguson
2. Jurgen Klopp
3. Pep Guardiola
4. Arsene Wenger
5. Jose Mourinho
city fans have massive respect for klopp. thats just how it is.
1. SAF
2. Mourinho
3. Guardiola
4. Wenger
5. Klopp
Mourinho over pep 😂
Pep is either first or second. Anything else is delusional
@@bluemoon1716 won't argue against Pep being 2, preference for me. Objectively speaking, he's 2
What a stupid argument. Comparing the old arsenal with the liverpool team with 99 points. The football has changed so much since then to even make such a comparison on playing style and intensity. Klopp won one title in 9 years and you excuse it saying he was competing with pep. Wenger won 3 titles competing with the greatest manager ever in Sir Alex.
Pep would've made fergie quit United and retire and I stand on that
We saw it in the UCL twice
people forget if the 19 and 22 titles which were decided by one point went to klopp he would have as many titles as pep,jose and wenger then it would be a great debate
If your mom had a moustache, she'd be your dad. What's your point?
my point is klopp deserves more respect as the 4th best PL manager@@fangdog29
That's irrelevant, Wenger would have 7 prems if he didnt come second, Fergie would have 17 etc etc you can say that about literally any manager so it means nothing
1. Frank de Boer
2. Steve Wigley
3. Remi Garde
4. Steve Kean
5. Ole-Gunnar Solskjaer
Fergie
Klopp
Guadiola
Mourinho
Wenger
"Almost winning a final" is a bogger achievement than finishing second in the league. Or 3rd or 4th. One trophy a season and a bag of finals vs making a living off scraping 4th. Scraping 4th was Houllier and Benitez, they were close to Wengers level, Klopp is elite
Klopp over pep 😢 pool fans my God
1. Sir Alex Ferguson
2. Pep Guardiola
3. Arsene Wenger
4. Jurgen Klopp
5. Jose Mourinho
Jose is one of my favourite managers of all time but I believe in this debate Loyalty plays a big factor and Jose has None 0 ✊
Mourinho has coached
Unaio De Leira 2001-2002
Don't even know where they are now. Smaller team vibe.
Porto 2002 - 2004
They had not won the League since 1999.
He came and won consecutively
And finally European champion his 2nd year. Porto hasn't been European champion since he left.
Chelsea 2004-2008
Smaller Team.
They had not won a league title since 1955.
Bammm two straight league titles 05 and 06.
It took Chelsea 4 seasons to reclaim the epl since he left.
Inter Milan 2008-2010
They had not won the champions league since 1965... bam he did it 2010. Plus the 2 league titles and a fifa club world cup. They haven't been European champions again. And took them 10 years to reclaim the serie A since he left.
Madrid 2010-2013
Before he arrived Madrid last la liga title was 3 seasons earlier. Last Copa Del Rey title was in 1993. He won both in his in two seasons
Chelsea 2013-15
They had not won the League since 2010.
Bam ... he did it again in 2015.
United 2016-2018
Their last European title was in 2008 he came in and won the europa league. They had struggled for even a top 4 placement but successfully qualified for europe under him (champs league)
Spurs 2019-2021
Nothing special. Smaller team vibe.
Roma 2021-2024
Smaller Team Again. Wow. Won the inaugural Europa Conference League 2022. And runners up of the europa league the following year 2023.
This is what we call An Over Achiever
Ignoring the financial circumstances in which every manager operated is really unfair. Guardiola and Mourinho had all the money in the world. Ferguson had financial power. None of them had to sell their best players every year for a decade and try to compete.
Mourinho isn't given enough credit for walking back in to the prem almost 10 years later and winning the league. I doubt any other manager on the list, bar Fergie and possibly Pep, could do that.
Why does he get credit for that? What difference does it make if it’s 10 years later
I think a more interesting video would’ve been the best of the rest. Who are the best managers of the PL era not on this list