Cell would probably choose a different color for his ultimate evolutuon, something that rapresents power. He would probably call it "the power beyond perfection itself", or something.
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
Goku is the boss of finding new forms to win his fights, Vegeta is the boss of mastering his forms like SSJ and Blue. It's pretty obvious Vegeta is mastering his Blue form, while Goku will get a new form, and that could be great for the show/manga. If you have Vegeta as the SSJ Blue saiyan, Goku as the new form saiyan and Gohan as the Ultimate form Saiyan. You get a really good mix or powers, as opposed to everyone being a super saiyan in the Cell/Buu saga's. Hell if we move the story forward you could even bring back Gotenks and have them master SSJ3 and use that exclusively.
Goku does not master his forms. He only mastered ssj. By mastering ssj he thought vegeta the concept of mastering forms to which vegeta perfered doing ecer since. While goku pushes forward towards new ones. Basically goku shows vegeta whats possible first and vegeta does it becuase he can.
I'll always like SSJ4's transformation... making them look more primal was an awesome design. Though it might have something to do with the fact SSJ4 Gogeta is like the most badass character ever lol
SSJ2 has always been my favorite as well. SSJ4 is cool and all (especially with the return of the tail) but the red hair (fur?) kind of kills it for me. Not sure why, just not a fan of the red.
Pretty sure that was also a TFS joke that Goku asked, and then everyone in the fanbase took as a serious question, more so than they thought it could be. XD
-Gohan and Goku would kill Freeza together (actually kill him) -Goku would come directly home -Goku and Gohan's training would be much more fruitful, plus this extra strain would cause Goku's virus to attack sooner and not affect him mid-battle -Goku would take out both "androids" -Cell would soon pop up and get the sleeping 17 and 18 after escaping from Pickami -The four saiyans would somehow take on P. Cell (probably after a Spirit Bomb) (I'd really like to see a dual Kamehameha clash with a dual Galick Gun, with Cell in the center.) -Everything up to Bobidi would be roughly the same (except Goku's alive) -Vegeta would NOT get controlled by Bobidi. With no extra training in Otherworld, Goku and Vegeta would be on par since they'd train together -They'd take out Bobidi, Dabora (and potentially weakened Buu) with little trouble Once it reaches Battle of Gods, there'd be no notable difference, so the "What if" would end there
Hmmm both feel too shallow to me somehow Jason's is more believable but... really hard to believe so much would not change, I mean wouldn't Gohan get SSJ2 easier? If he didn't get SSJ2, he would actually start losing against Dadora, and Vegeta would get even more pissed, and since Goku does not have the power of SSJ3 maybe that light eating guy wouldn't be as easy to overcharge, Also I'm pretty sure Cell would shrug off even a 4man Super Sayian blasts or at least regenerate from his cells just fine, So I think it has a lot more potental and the way MasakoX tells it like your watching it as the anime itself could make any Scenario sound awesome...except that filler arc that never was.
From my viewpoint, Super Saiyan 3 was a deconstruction of Dragon Ball's typical super transformations. When Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 first appeared, they were the pivotal points in the final battle of a major story arc, and were used to trounce the big baddie. Super Saiyan 3 came out early in the arc, and its drawbacks were put forward from the get-go. I think Toriyama was making fun of the continually increasing powerups in his series and showing that it stops being practical after a while. Fits with the looser style of the Buu Saga.
yeah toriyama ain't togashi he doesn't think deeply on something, to simplify things ssj3 is the "speed governor" disable it and the engine will go overdrive at the expense of overheating and probably destroying your engine along with it. and because the buu saga is the last toriyama wanted to end it quickly and be done with dragonball, he made ssj3 like that so probably editor wouldn't pest him with the ending he already wanted and he would have an excuse not to make transformations or story extension again, he made quite sure all things are done and covered.
that's the way he writes, yes he is having fun but 1st and foremost he doesn't really think it through, alot of great stuff about dragon ball isn't from toriyama himself but either from his underlings and subordinate or from his editors. toriyama specialize comedy that's why Dragon ball is much better than Z GT or super combined. there's no details and ass pull plot devices were welcome there because there's nothing you could take seriously it's just pure fun. unlike z that has too many convoluted backgrounds , power levels to think about , race abilities and so on and so on.
Jeraisy Bernal Yeah Xenoverse 2 albeit not canon to the story if DBZ whatsoever, still implies that SSJG and SSJGSSJ drain your stamina faster, albeit for the Saiyan player character in game it drains Ki, but still it's taxing and makes you wonder if you should use that form or not. And I still have yet to even watch the anime...
I feel as though everyone treats ssj3 as if it’s the same thing as ultra ssj, yeah it’s not a perfect transformation. I think that’s because for most of the time when we saw it in Z, it was a brand new transformation. Remember the first time goku went ssj, it wasn’t perfect either. It drained stamina and couldn’t be kept for a long period of time. However he worked on it and mastered ssj1. I think the same thing could happen with ssj3. The issue though is that it still wouldn’t be any better than ssjb so there is no point.
ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
So wait... if Toriyama thought SSJ3 was SSJ2 does that mean he thought SSJ2 was SSJ1 this entire time?... which could explain why there isn't lightning sometimes when a character is clearly meant to be in SSJ2?... Also i REALLY love SSJ3 Goku's art design... it's still my favorite look so i'm probably in the minority that is disappointed that it never got a lot of screen time
Toriyama had nothing to do with the anime. Only the Manga. The reason why SSJ2 often doesn't have lighting is simply the animation budget. Those lighting effects are costly, so they just left them out most of the time. Also in the first print of the Manga (the one Toriyama actually wrote) the Super Saiyan forms never even got any numbers. Super Saiyan 2 was never named in the story and SSJ3 was just called "Mega Super Saiyan". So it's not that Toriyama forgot it, it's just that he never even invented the numerical names.
MysticFate Yes, it was called that in the first print. Subsequent prints named it Super Saiyan 3 however, but those prints had changes ordered by Toei and not Toriyama himself. Some of the earlier video games even call SSJ3 Goku "Mega Goku". Also in the first print of the Manga the Super Saiyan Grade 2 and 3 are called "Ultra Super Saiyan" and "Ultra Super Saiyan 2" some even call them like that today.
JackOfen Ahh... i was just going to say that in my copy of the manga it says "Super Saiyan Level 3" for chapter 280... has anyone ever covered this before...? i would imagine i would have heard Geekdom say it in a video or something unless i just completely missed it
You know the reason why Toriyama forgot the Super Saiyan 2 tranformation? Because it is never named in the Manga. And all that Toriyama really did was the Manga, he didn't care that much about the anime. Even Super Saiyan 3 was at first called "Mega Super Saiyan". I even still have the first edition of the Manga. It's not that he forgot about it. It's just that he never even invented the numerical names for the tranformations.
I have a question and I just realized this... Whatever happened to Vegeta scars? Did they disappear when he was revived? Or when his body was put back together?
To be honest, I forgot about those too, so I'm forgiving Toriyama on this one if he forgot them. Then again, that might just be my oriëntation. If I were into men, I might have remembered those scenes where he was shirtless more vividly...
8:15 Ugh.... I can't believe I have to keep telling people this. Vegeta. Didn't. Cheat. 1: In order to go ssj4 for the first time, you need to turn into a golden great ape, which happens when a strong enough saiyan gets exposed to the specific type of radiation given off by a full moon's light. You then need to learn to harness your great ape form and turn it into your own power. 2: The thing that triggers the great ape transformation is a made-up type of radiation that vegeta calls blutz waves, as he explained durig his first fight with Goku, all the way back during the Saiyan saga of the DBZ series. 3: The blutz wave generator was litteraly just creating artificial moonlight so that Vegeta could transform into his great ape form, since there was no full moon during his transformation. TL;DR - It's not cheating to get the form. It's more like someone borrowing a car so that they can even participate in a street race to begin with.
Yep. I used to get bothered by this alot. But now that Super came along Vegeta has undeniably shown his strength/worth by achieving Blue without going through the God ritual first, so in my mind while he managed to "catch up" with Goku in GT, he instead both kept up in Super and one-upped him by achieving Blue without a powerboost first. I should point out though that the reason Vegeta needed the blutz wave generator was because he needed more powerful/concentrated blutz waves than those from the moon because he didn't have his tail at the time. Otherwise he would have just used the fake energy moon technique he used in the Saiyan Saga. But yes, all it did was enable the Oozaru transformation, like the moon did for Goku, Vegeta had to do the rest, and he did it much more efficiently than Goku too since he has control over the Oozaru state which Goku definitely doesn't. TL;DR - Vegeta is a clever badass in both GT and Super and deserves much more respect.
ThisName DoesntMatter It's impossible for Vegeta to cheat. Unless you're from heroes, it's another story. Vegeta needed to be an Oozaru. He achieved ss4 on his own. Simple as that. It's like borrowing a pencil to finish a test.
You missed the point entirely. It's not like steroids because it didn't boost Vegeta's strength. At all. He didn't have a tail to absorb normal blutz waves, so he had to absorb blutz waves through his skin instead. The blutz waves had to be stronger for that to work, so machine instead of moon. That's it. It's just to trigger the Oozaru transformation. If using the machine is "cheating" then so is using the moon, which it obviously isn't.
Also people overlook the fact that baby was inside Vegeta's body because Vegeta was able to go golden ape. Link to that scene here: ruclips.net/video/0hdbkkR5KM4/видео.html
Brandy .Ortiz It's Because the Blutz waves, if enough, can turn a Saiyan in to a Great Ape/Golden Great Ape even if he doesn't have a tail, but to do so the Saiyan needs a much bigger quantity of Blutz waves than a Saiyan with a tail. Vegeta couldn't go SSJ4 until the Shadow Dragon arc because even if he could have become a Golden Great Ape and easly control the form, Baby's blood was still inside his body, and to become a SSJ4 you need to be a full bloded Saiyan.
People say it's impossible, but why? I feel like we assume it can only be done in other world, because only Goku did it. However, in Super Goku clearly states that Caulifla is practically knocking on the door to turn SSJ3 and I feel like we're going to end up with her going SSJ3 by the time it's over. Do I want that? No, but a female SSJ3? MARKETING GO. Secondly Goku burning through time is anime only iirc. If Goku had gone SSJ3 versus Majin Vegeta, he'd of crushed him. The time bit is something no one other than King Kai and Goku knew about(anime wise) and the stamina drain is non existent when he's dead. Hell, I don't imagine Vegeta would magically expect a stamina drain when even Goku, who had the form, was surprised at how much it drained when fighting Buu once alive again. Side note, why do people keep giving Vegeta credit for learning Super Saiyan Blue all on his own? For doing it better than Goku..? He literally ran up and begged Whis to train him. He didn't go into the gravity chamber and just come out blue. Both him and Goku did the exact same thing. Had Whis teach them.
The reason people give Vegeta credit for going blue on his own, is because he did not do the ritual to go SSJG like Goku did. He obtained the form on his own. Yes both of them got trained by Whis but that was more to perfect the power rather than to just obtain it.
Light Rivers the anime made it quite clear that they both discovered/experienced it at the exact same time. Goku gave Vegeta credit on learning SSG on his own, even if we have never seen him do it (in the anime). We can only speculate on how Vegeta learned SSG.
about blue - yes it was first used by Vegeta but it was only something like - I wonder if I can transform in this state into ssj, while about ssjgod was there ever stated that he didn't do the same ritual that Goku did? I think that it was only possibility to achieve that form
the caulifla thing is done and done, it's been hinted by goku, but ever since she went level 2 vs kale broly form before the tournament even started, and you look at how her original design is basically already halfway to that level 3 hairdo it was over before it began. i'm not opposed to it, if goku and vegeta won't do it, it's nice that someone will give the form a real chance (probably ending in a knockout, but hopefully a good fight before that) and power scaling is and has kind of always been broken anyway so why not have somone go from 1 to 3 in a month/week/3days/whatever? they're all irreverent forms anyway with blue and now ultra instinct. future trunks largly unexplained half god half ss2 but still able to be as strong or stronger than blue thing was obnoxious alright and caulifla going 3 seems way more natural than that was and i'd be glad to see the form explored more fully that the total of 5 times it's been used so far (i remember gokus first, gotenks, gotenks round 2, majin buu final fight, and vs trunks not counting movies)
I think "ultra instinct" is the dodging technique that Weiss was trying to teach Goku and Vegeta early in the series, he said even Beerus couldnt do it.
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
Minor flaw in #5, Toriyama didn't really forget what Super Saiyan 3 was, he actually forgot what Super Saiyan 2 was. Likely due to the fact that visually SSJ and SSJ2 are basically the same just with electrical effects. So, as he stated, whenever he thought of SSJ2, he was actually thinking about SSJ3, the form with the long hair.
Legendary Goku if you watch TFS you'll know but lemme explain a saibaman and raditz have the same power level and raditz has hair like ssj3 in his base form and in TFS they consider him as a saibaman
Do you think SSJ3 could be a good Stamina Training Form? Like you literally walk around and go about life as if you were in the Room of Spirit and Time/ a Gravity Chamber, etc? Not good in COMBAT, but if you needed to get truly to the point of exhaustion/half-death for a free Zenkai, would SSJ3 do the job?
No, and SSJ3 also takes a physical toll on the body as well. Unless there's something like a magical phenomenon such as the fusion of Gotenks, I believe it is not worth the wait. The reason why Goku transformed SSJ3 against Buu is because he was making a gamble like he did with Gohan during the Cell Games.
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
TalonGB Why? It’s a remastered version of the DBZ anime that cuts out most of the filler & corrects mistranslations in order to make it more accurate to the manga, and uses the original Japanese soundtrack. In other words, it’s closer to what DBZ was meant to be. I don’t see what’s so bad about it. Is it that bad or are you just a nostalgia fanboy who refuses to admit that the original version of the DBZ anime has flaws?
Beerus noticed the rage boost, but it disappeared as quickly as it came. At regular SSJ2, neither Goku nor Vegeta peaked Beerus' interest. However when Goku went SSJ3, Beerus finally did get interested in the Saiyans. Showing you how much more powerful a transformation SSJ3 is than SSJ2.
CaoSong SSJ3 is excellent but only for short term experiences, for long term it's bad due to draining too much energy from the user and making it inefficient.
Wait but if Super Saiyain 3 is only possible through Magic or through convenience of a Limitless body then why did Goku tell Caulifla that she could probably transform in the tournament of power?
Because of two reasons: 1. Caulifla achieved Super Saiyan 2 way faster than any Saiyan, from Universe 7 or otherwise. before her. 2. Universe 6 Saiyans are inherently more powerful than Universe 7 Saiyans. Of course, there's also the third reason: 3. MARKETING!
I live in the UK, I remember the first time I saw Super Saiyan 3. We just finished the Cell Saga in the UK and that was it, we never heard that DBZ would continue and we never heard otherwise. I thought DBZ had ended for good. Imagine my surprise going on a Holiday to Spain and catching a random episode of the Buu Saga in a hotel waiting room. I didn't want to be anywhere else, not the pool, not in my room, not playing a bunch of games. I was stuck to this pretty bad quality tv that was fuzzy as all hell just so I could absorb what was happening in a language I didn't speak. Nobody believed me afterwards getting home, telling them what I saw. Not my favourite form, but not something i'll forget.
You are vastly underestimating SSJ3 imo. If Goku went SSJ3 against Majin Vegeta the fight would of ended in seconds. The drawbacks only really play a part if you are fighting an opponent of similar strength for an extended period of time. Goku even states he could of destroyed Buu right at the start if he didn't drag out the fight for so long so vegeta could get a turn. Plus with the amount of ki Goku and Vegeta currently have I doubt that SSJ3's stamina drain would be as effective as it was in the Buu arc. PLUS it was the only super saiyan form that was never mastered SSJ1 was mastered against Cell and SSJ2 was pretty much implied to of been mastered by both Goku and Vegeta in the 7 year time skip. Whereas SSJ3 was only attained in the timeskip all its imperfections are likely due to the fact that Goku hadn't mastered it. You can support this by the fact that Later on against Beerus Goku goes SSJ3 with ease compared to when he fought Buu with almost no need to charge to reach the form, against trunks he did the same and later on when he was training on the illusion island with krillen he just casually actived it and deactivated it as easily as he does SSJ1. It's just that the form has lost relevance as most opponents in the multiverse barely reach SSJ1 level and the few that have surpassed SSJ1 are Geniuses who have far surpassed any normal SSJ form. for example Hit, Jiren, Toppo and Frieza. In fact pretty much the only characters I can think of that are around the SSJ3 level would be SSJ2 Caulifla and Kale... I don't know why I did such a long post on this
Finally someone who appreciates ssj3 and not thinks of only drawbacks, one hit from ssj3 is so much stronger than barrage of those from ssj2, and how much stronger it would be at mastered level?
The sad thing about SSJ3 its that is Toryama's favorite super sayan form so it could have more potential, but the DBZ's anime told him to not use every time because it cost too much money to anime SSJ3. A super sayan for is supposed to be the big deal like the the 1 and 2 SSJ it was badass, but SSJ3 din't get its badass moments it derserve or not enough.
Vegeta realizing that SSJ3 and was useless and instead deciding to stick with a mastered SSJ2 actually makes a lot of sense. He did the same thing when he decided to stick with Super Saiyan Second Grade instead of using the impractical Third Grade/Ultrua.
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
It reminds me of the theory way back then that royal bloods can only make Super saiyan 2 e.g. Trunks and Vegeta. However, they can make their body swell resulting into next type of Super saiyan 2. The theory also provided that warrior saiyan like Goku/Kakarot can transform into Super saiyan 3.(Remember that Goku's father is a great warrior in their race). However, they don't have the swelling of the body in the state of super saiyan 2. Moreover, about Broly, he seem to be a different kind of saiyan. This is just base from what I read. It is not my claims.
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
1. Vegeta or any other Saiyan (non-fused) more than likely cant go Ssj3 as it requires the same mastery Goku did at Ssj to achieve Ssj2 to then master Ssj2 to get to Ssj3. Toriyama has stated that Ssj2 and Ssj3 are just extensions from Ssj so its a fair assumption to assume that the process in achieving Ssj3 is the same too. If Vegeta tried to master Ssj2 in oreder to achieve Ssj3 he would probably die due to the strain on his body... Gotenks is a fused being so he doesnt count due to having unnatural Ki reserves. 2. Super Saiyan 3 is NOT useless it just has more notable drawbacks as the trade off for power and speed are larger. Who's to say that if Goku never achieved the God forms Ssj3 couldnt be mastered or its effects at least lessened? Also it has been stated that transformations using huge amounts of Ki can be regulated with training, e.g. Goku telling Golden freiza in the ROF arc. The fact is before the God forms came along Vegeta probably cried himself to sleep at night that he couldnt go Ssj3 and let not forget Vegeta was the first Saiyan to use Ssj (2nd grade). 2. Trunks in his strengthened Ssj2 from that we saw in the manga is NOT as strong or stronger than Ssj3. Trunks literally powered up as much as he could to release ONE huge attack that managed to match Goku at Ssj3. It is also highly doubtful that a StrSsj2 could match a Ssj3's speed...
Super Saiyan was conceived in part so that Toriyamas assistant wouldn’t have to color in Gokus hair, and he’s said that it was a pain to draw all of Cells spots. SS3 probably wasn’t featured more because the hair was a pain to draw.
I love that Vegeta trains the forms he knows to perfection instead of looking for the next thing. He mastered his Super Saiyan 2 levels beyond Goku's super saiyan 3. He's also doing it with his Super Saiyan Blue form. He's trained it so much that the full extent of his power in SSB should at the very least match Goku in SSB kaioken x10 and possibly even x20. The only guy at the Tournament of Power who can possibly challenge him is Jiren cause he should be able to body everybody else there. Anything less would be inconsistent writing. He's got the most eliminations for a reason. He's a beast.
scurvymouth in battle of Gods arc Vegeta in Super Saiyan 2 was leagues stronger than Goku in Super Saiyan 3 so yes Vegeta could have beat Goku in SS2 back then.
Trunks being able to go toe-to-toe with Super Saiyan 3 Goku is even more obvious in the manga, where Goku apparently had to channel Super Saiyan God for a brief moment to beat Trunks in that sparring match. That's how much Trunks had refined Super Saiyan 2.
And that's how much bullshit Toiyotaro is producing. In the anime Trunks got one-shooted by a non-serious SSJ3 Goku, how it should have happened. Because, you know, Trunks' base IS NOT x4 stronger than Goku's. You can't change the multiplier of a form by "mastering" it. It only accustoms you to it, so you don't loose much ki and/or stamina while in it. Yet the manga made Goku transform into SSG, the form that was enough to shake the universe, just to fight SSJ2 Trunks. That's just ridiculous.
Argon I still prefer the manga, if only because it shows Trunks's power gains were able to put him on the same level of Goku and Vegeta without him needing to rely on God Ki. Which fits with Super's theme of the Gods being incompetent and/or unnecessary much better.
Oh, and remember how in this video, Masako said that Toriyama has stated in some interviews that full-powered Super Saiyan is all you need? Well, specifically, he stated this in a Saikyo Jump interview in 2014. He said that Super Saiyans 2 and 3 are just powered up variations on the regular Super Saiyan, and that enough training could make a mastered Super Saiyan stronger than 2 or 3 while also consuming less stamina. Why can't Trunks mastering Super Saiyan 2 make him stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku by using this same logic?
I believe that if Super Saiyan Rage isn't said to be a God Form then it is the true next level beyond SS2 because think about this SS1 was achieved through rage SS2 was achieved through rage and or training SS3 was achieved through training This logically means SS3 is a precursor to the true SS3 because just like SS1 there was forms mid way between SS1 and SS2 so logically it can be inferred the same is with SS2 and SS3 yet Vegeta nor Goku made any mention of a form mid way or anything of the like so what if SS Rage was the true SS3
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
I’m almost certain Vegeta would’ve given up as soon as he saw SSJ3 when he fought Goku. He wanted a rematch with Goku and sold his soul to become more powerful, but I’d imagine he’d be devastated to see Goku reach a form he’d never attain
In the line of power, I have to disagree with you, SSJ3 is much stronger and quicker then SSJ2, even M Vecheatah would get destroyed, He'd see the form, feel how over powering it is, He'd try to stay alive, but in the thick of it he would get overpowered and destroyed. Yes the form drains you really quickly but it's Goku, if he were to need that move to win he'd make sure he beats him in the alotted time, I am sure of that, Vecheatah is the natural Supah Elite warriah, but Goku has the techniques that increase his his Ki Energy + output, so yeah, Vecheatah's stronger Goku's a better warriah.
SSJ3 is considerably more powerful than SSJ2 no matter how they cut it, SSJ transformations are multipliers, it doesn't matter how much you perfect the stage below it, the multiplier is still the same. Case in point Vegeta never reaches SSJ3, and thus has had to spend years only training and perfecting SSJ2... yet when Beerus shows up, he picks apart SSJ2 (both Goku's and Vegeta's) without any effort at all barely even registering that Goku and Vegeta are there... however when Goku busts out SSJ3, even Beerus takes notice. Beerus still defeats SSJ3 Goku effortlessly, but for Beerus to even have his interest peaked a little by it, means it's far beyond SSJ2's capabilities. To further the point, the only reason Beerus thinks there could be a Super Saiyan God, is because he sees Goku turn Super Saiyan 3.
CaoSong SSJ2 is a 100x multiplier and SSJ3 is a 400x multiplier. So SSJ3 is only 4x stronger than SSJ2 which may as well be nothing when it comes to Beerus. Also training with a form does increase its effectiveness. Goku and Gohan after perfecting SSJ1 in the time chamber were leagues beyond Vegeta and Trunks who spent their time trying to reach a new form beyond SSJ1 Seeing as Vegeta and Trunks get bodied by Perfect Cell and Goku is fairly even with Cell. So we could safely assume that a perfected SSJ2 could compete with an untrained SSJ3 especially when the gap is only 4x.
And yet the fact is Beerus DID only take notice and believe a Super Saiyan God was possible after Goku when SSJ3. The facts support this, no matter how little it was, SSJ3 is the power that intrigued Beerus, not SSJ2 from either Goku or Vegeta. That also being said, SS transformations are only a multiplier. Do you think SSJ2 Vegeta is 4x stronger than SSJ2 Goku? Cause he would have to be 4x stronger than SSJ2 Goku for him to even be able to remotely compete with SSJ3 Goku. (SSJ2 Vegeta isn't 4x more powerful than SSJ2 Goku btw, even with his power amplified by the Majin power he still couldn't get the upper hand over SSJ2 Goku). Goku, due to the time he was dead, has actually had more time to train in SSJ2 than Vegeta has, and in all cases has also mastered the SSJ2 transformation. You may not understand the way multipliers work, but the higher the base number, the lower the multiple has to be for the resulting number to be massive.
The Veg is definetly more strategic then goku. Like you said, goku is a martial artist, mainly 1 on 1 in a ring. Vegeta is a Soldier, trained in war... He's a tactition. Goku is more of a bruiser...
Yeah, i doubt Majin Vegeta would be able to stay away from Goku if he went SSJ3. Power and Speed increase that SSJ3 offers would be simply too much for Majin Vegeta to handle. If Goku went SSJ3 and was actually fighting seriously he would destroy Majin Vegeta in an instant.
SSJ3 has always been my favorite super saiyan transformation. Some of my favorite fights have been done with the SSJ3 form, and I have always loved the design.
If I remember correctly when Beerus shows up, even after years of training with SSJ3, Goku says he hadn't improved it's drawbacks very much... likely he would have to spend hundreds/thousands of years training it to make it work properly. But hey on the bright side if he trains for 10,000 years he can train under the all powerful Grand Kai lol
It's kinda impossible since SSJ3 drains faster too much energy from the user, so it's transformation is only for emergency purposes, to end conflicts quickly.
I think I'd prefer SSJ4 & 5 over SSJ3; For one, SSJ4 is stated to be stronger and more stable than 3, and two, it's a more natural transformation, being more of an "Oozaru 2" or "Oozaru-Man" form and SSJ5 is just going Super Saiyan 1 on top of that... (I don't think going Super Oozaru is a prerequisite of achieving SSJ4, just a side effect of Goku & Vegeta becoming Oozaru at their level of power at the time)
If it's natural, then I think it really does require a Super Oozaru form. I think there are two natural forms: SSJ2 the Oozaru form. And then you work to combine them while taking control, giving you SSJ4. The others aren't forms but mods. This is excluding the new God-based forms, of course. I don't know if those are natural or entirely artificial forms.
I've had this theory SSJ3 is a mystic form. Like Masako said he learns it in spirit world, it drains his time on earth, stuff like that. Also Gotenks can learn it because he is basically a mystical being since he derives from fusion dance. I see DBZ as having two types of ki control. Battle ki and mystic ki. Beings like Gods of destructions and saiyans are heavy and natural with battle ki. (power, levels, kamahamamas, you know lazer beams and screaming) Being like Kias and certain namekian clans are more mystic. (power increases, dragon balls, teleportation) Earthling are are good at either, but also excel at neither. Gohan is good at mystic cause he's part human. Goku is only real good at it because his time in the other world and because he didn't have the rage like most saiyans. just a theory i like the gloss over the show with for fun
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
Well, he used Super Kaioken because that tournament was non-cannon. Things that are stated to be not possible or not true in the cannon part of anime, has often actually happened in the non cannon part. So I won't say that he was able to go "Super Kaioken" because he didn't have any physical limitations. Besides, he had his body, when he was dead in the other world he still felt hunger. Which means he had physical limitations, imo he could learn ssj3 just because their's no concept of time in other world so Goku literally had unimaginable amounts of time to train & achieve ssj3! And when Trunks tells Vegeta to come at him with ssj3, he laughs because he has a much more powerful transformation than ssj3 ie SSGSS. Not because he never thought ssj3 was useless. Plus, ssj3 in Buu arc drained that much stamina because it was a new form, Goku wasn't used to it. It's still a powerful form & drains stamina heavily but it probably drains less stamina than both of the God forms!
honestly, Vegeta may even take some pride over never going SSJ3. He was able to jump straight from SSJ2 to SSJ God and SSJ Blue. He was able to skip a step where Goku couldn't, like skipping a grade in school due to being too smart for your own grade
Kakkorot transforming into Super Sayian 3 for the first time in DragonBallZ original Funimation English dub against Fat Boo was the first scene I've ever saw and it's what got me into the franchise in the first place
Let's say Trunks has his own way to get powerful in the series without appealing to SSJ3. For example, Super Trunks AND... His *SSJ Rage* transformation, unique.
I always took Vegeta laughing at Trunks about SS3 as just him thinking "oh, I've got something even MORE powerful than that," rather than "SS3 is useless." It was him saying "Oh, you think that's the best Goku and I can do? You've got another thing coming."
Vegeta sees SS3 from the afterlife, sees it in person vs Kid Buu, gives Goku the "You're # 1" speech... and then Goku powers down. Like the USSJ form with Trunks, Vegeta realized that kind of power output was impractical (not Goku's fault, he's used to being dead). Vegeta is more likely to train for long, fairly even fights wearing down his opponents' stamina given his background (vs Kaio-Ken Goku, Zarbon, the Androids, etc). And once he perfected SS2 and got really mad about Bulma, he DID do better vs Beerus than SS3 Goku did. So he might have a point.
It was once read some article that said that he didn't have a Super Saiyan 3 because Super Saiyan 3 was hard to draw and animate, which is why Goku and Gotenks now rarely use it
What makes you think Vegeta didnt learn how to achieve SSJ3? He probably did just to see if he could do, and then thought better of it when he noticed the flaws of the form.
A week later I watch this video, and I just have one thing to say to this, or rather quote from Goku during his fight with Caulifla "Not Bad. You might actually reach Super Saiyan 3 in this fight." Now while she didn't get the chance to have Goku continue to instruct her on how to reach that state, it does indicate that it is possible to reach that state without the use of magic or infinite energy. However if I had to guess, it does call for a great deal of stamina and training to maintain, much like Super Saiyan God or Super Saiyan Blue, though probably more like using the Kaioken while Super Saiyan.
What's hilarious is that Vegeta DID unlock SSJ3.....but only when Baby possessed him. In the official GT Files, Super Baby 2 is comparable to SSJ3 (and has similar features, like the heavy brow, longer hair and muscle growth.)
A good reason he should still learn it though is because form is different, so you learn something different by learning to use it. And sometimes, new forms are learned by combining old forms. And other times, they serve as a stepping stone to something else.
1) He didn't have a death or life situation to bring it out of him, Goku was already dead, the kids already saw it like, twice, and Vegeta? He never had the chance to learn it because he was alive and never had a challenge to his name even once, besides, with Goku dead, he only trained to keep up, never reached for greater heights as who could challenge him in the first place? He had surpassed Gohan so it was pointless. 2) Even after Buu and he saw the power of Super saiyan 3 he immediately saw the drawbacks before that fight even finished. So after knowing the stamina drain was so insane, he knew it was pointless to bother with a transformation like that, and just focus on super saiyan 2. And as we've seen from Trunks, i'm right. Because SS2 Trunks was able to keep up with SS3 Goku even for a second means that Vegeta would definitely, and actually, we saw Vegeta actually landed a decent blow to Beerus in his SS2 while Goku even as SS3 could not. So, again, theres 2 points of proof that SS2 is easier to master and has none of the draw backs meaning theres no reason to go for SS3 unless you just need that power boost, and if Vegeta wanted he could just use Final Flash or go Ultra or something like that. Besides, he knew about Beerus, and now that he has Godly Ki and what not, why bother with 3?
Too bad there are no Saiyan Androids. They could abuse the shit out of SSJ3.
WHY HAVE I NEVER THOUGHT OF THIS BEFORE HOLY SHIT
If Frieza was part Android golden Frieza would be a serious problem. Imagine Golden Mecha Frieza
We already have a part Frieza and Saiyan android: he's called *Cell* .
Oh, and he's also part human and Namekian.
+DMB, Golden Perfect Cell would be quite the bitch.
Cell would probably choose a different color for his ultimate evolutuon, something that rapresents power. He would probably call it "the power beyond perfection itself", or something.
Vegeta's most prised possession is his flawless eyebrows, no way he's giving up that.
Yep cause he already lost his pride in super :D
When xxxtentacion went ss3 no one was happy about it
Jack kira lethal 😂😂😂😂
Damn right
Exactly so if his eyebrows go to his hair, his hair will just grow longer than the multiverse
He couldn't scream loud enough
The Ace Of Spades have you not watch TFS, his scream in the Namek Saga broke timelines
Haero Archon Zen-O heard it and thought it was his alarm
Sam Peters he's doesn't even have a alarm
Haero Archon I have watched it he screamed to the future and that part was one of my favorite parts
The Ace Of Spades he broke his vocal cords
Goku: You wanna hear a joke?
Vegeta: Yea
Goku: Super Saiyan 3
Vegeta: I dont get it?
Goku: Exactly
Har har har. Clever joke that has been repeated countless time. No longer relevant.
Who need SSJ3 if you can train alone on an Island and get as strong as blue.
He didn't get to blue training by himself
Im talking about me, Read my name.
StormCrow Alpha
Ikr
Because his hair would be too long for his height.
Thoric He's taller now
KEZ OM3GA
Could've sworn that people stop growing after they turn 18-19
Ramon Zwiep maybe it’s different with saiyins?
#001 Gotenks: Too long for his height? Hold my Hetap...
Waxican
If it is then it has never been stated or mensioned so ima say no
"For gods sakes I bet that even your father can do it! He's just not stupid enough to even try!"
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
Goku is the boss of finding new forms to win his fights,
Vegeta is the boss of mastering his forms like SSJ and Blue.
It's pretty obvious Vegeta is mastering his Blue form, while Goku will get a new form, and that could be great for the show/manga. If you have Vegeta as the SSJ Blue saiyan, Goku as the new form saiyan and Gohan as the Ultimate form Saiyan. You get a really good mix or powers, as opposed to everyone being a super saiyan in the Cell/Buu saga's.
Hell if we move the story forward you could even bring back Gotenks and have them master SSJ3 and use that exclusively.
Jason Hayes you actually predicted it right haha
Goku does not master his forms. He only mastered ssj. By mastering ssj he thought vegeta the concept of mastering forms to which vegeta perfered doing ecer since. While goku pushes forward towards new ones. Basically goku shows vegeta whats possible first and vegeta does it becuase he can.
@@jongee7034 goku mastered ssj1, 2 and even 3 by the time super came around. How did he not master them?
Slime Blue he really didn’t. That’s head cannon.
@@jongee7034 can you prove this, or is this just... your headcanon? Goku seems absolutely in control of ssj1-3.
SSJ3 is dope but SSJ2 is still my favorite saiyan transformation
Sriram Jeostarzz No its not, its stronger. Its as strong as Ultra Super Sayian (Full Power) but without the drop in speed the bulk gives.
Sriram Jeostarzz You sound uneducated. Rewatch Z.
I'll always like SSJ4's transformation... making them look more primal was an awesome design. Though it might have something to do with the fact SSJ4 Gogeta is like the most badass character ever lol
Ssj4 all the way
SSJ2 has always been my favorite as well. SSJ4 is cool and all (especially with the return of the tail) but the red hair (fur?) kind of kills it for me. Not sure why, just not a fan of the red.
Since What If Week is coming up, I have a What If for you:
If Gohan went Super Saiyan on Namek.
Pretty sure that was also a TFS joke that Goku asked, and then everyone in the fanbase took as a serious question, more so than they thought it could be. XD
-Gohan and Goku would kill Freeza together (actually kill him)
-Goku would come directly home
-Goku and Gohan's training would be much more fruitful, plus this extra strain would cause Goku's virus to attack sooner and not affect him mid-battle
-Goku would take out both "androids"
-Cell would soon pop up and get the sleeping 17 and 18 after escaping from Pickami
-The four saiyans would somehow take on P. Cell (probably after a Spirit Bomb)
(I'd really like to see a dual Kamehameha clash with a dual Galick Gun, with Cell in the center.)
-Everything up to Bobidi would be roughly the same (except Goku's alive)
-Vegeta would NOT get controlled by Bobidi. With no extra training in Otherworld, Goku and Vegeta would be on par since they'd train together
-They'd take out Bobidi, Dabora (and potentially weakened Buu) with little trouble
Once it reaches Battle of Gods, there'd be no notable difference, so the "What if" would end there
Geewiakers Maybe Vegeta’s pride would be more damaged, seeing how a child could go SSJ but not him.
Hmmm both feel too shallow to me somehow Jason's is more believable but... really hard to believe so much would not change,
I mean wouldn't Gohan get SSJ2 easier? If he didn't get SSJ2, he would actually start losing against Dadora, and Vegeta would get even more pissed, and since Goku does not have the power of SSJ3 maybe that light eating guy wouldn't be as easy to overcharge, Also I'm pretty sure Cell would shrug off even a 4man Super Sayian blasts or at least regenerate from his cells just fine,
So I think it has a lot more potental and the way MasakoX tells it like your watching it as the anime itself could make any Scenario sound awesome...except that filler arc that never was.
Jason Skywalker Well if they went straight home after killing Freeza that means Goku doesn't learn instant transmission and he never gets the virus.
"Vegeta SSJ2 can just evade SSJ3 Goku's punches"
You say that as it's easy to evade the punches of someone like 4 times faster and stronger than you.
Yeah, he just has to avoid instantanious death coming at the speed of light. Super simple right? Lmao
Ssj grade 3 trunks vs perfect cell anyone?
Yeah I thought the same that's bs
vegeta fought to death with kid buu who was equivalent or even more powerful than ssj3 goku
@@devilfromhell8546 he was getting whooped.
From my viewpoint, Super Saiyan 3 was a deconstruction of Dragon Ball's typical super transformations. When Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 first appeared, they were the pivotal points in the final battle of a major story arc, and were used to trounce the big baddie. Super Saiyan 3 came out early in the arc, and its drawbacks were put forward from the get-go.
I think Toriyama was making fun of the continually increasing powerups in his series and showing that it stops being practical after a while. Fits with the looser style of the Buu Saga.
yeah toriyama ain't togashi he doesn't think deeply on something, to simplify things ssj3 is the "speed governor" disable it and the engine will go overdrive at the expense of overheating and probably destroying your engine along with it. and because the buu saga is the last toriyama wanted to end it quickly and be done with dragonball, he made ssj3 like that so probably editor wouldn't pest him with the ending he already wanted and he would have an excuse not to make transformations or story extension again, he made quite sure all things are done and covered.
Mao Sama I wouldn't say making fun of one's own writing is too deep.
that's the way he writes, yes he is having fun but 1st and foremost he doesn't really think it through, alot of great stuff about dragon ball isn't from toriyama himself but either from his underlings and subordinate or from his editors. toriyama specialize comedy that's why Dragon ball is much better than Z GT or super combined. there's no details and ass pull plot devices were welcome there because there's nothing you could take seriously it's just pure fun. unlike z that has too many convoluted backgrounds , power levels to think about , race abilities and so on and so on.
GoldStorm07 Giving Toriyama way too much credit
The "That's my Bulma" scene in Battle of Gods was his perfect opportunity to turn SS3.
They absolutely blundered it.
I know this is a old comment but master roshi did say that vegeta's power in that moment was higher than goku at ssj3
vegeta doesn't need ssj3 because it has a lot of power drain and doesn't suit vegeta's fighting style or he will just look like raditz in ssj1
john david medina he would look like a saibamen with his long hair
john david medina very accurate
john david medina Goku was Dead yet Ghost didn't get his Eyecon. XD
To be fair SSG and blue drains hell of a lot more than ssj3
Jeraisy Bernal Yeah Xenoverse 2 albeit not canon to the story if DBZ whatsoever, still implies that SSJG and SSJGSSJ drain your stamina faster, albeit for the Saiyan player character in game it drains Ki, but still it's taxing and makes you wonder if you should use that form or not. And I still have yet to even watch the anime...
I feel as though everyone treats ssj3 as if it’s the same thing as ultra ssj, yeah it’s not a perfect transformation. I think that’s because for most of the time when we saw it in Z, it was a brand new transformation. Remember the first time goku went ssj, it wasn’t perfect either. It drained stamina and couldn’t be kept for a long period of time. However he worked on it and mastered ssj1. I think the same thing could happen with ssj3. The issue though is that it still wouldn’t be any better than ssjb so there is no point.
TheMisterbobman my thoughts exactly the problem with SS3 is that most fans don't care and it got outclassed very quickly
ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
Not enough sit-ups and not enough juice
Mr. Piccolo hi
One just can’t simply forget about push-ups ... shame on you Piccolo
Mr. Piccolo yes, yes he did.
TFS reference
The real question is what KIND of juice?
What If Raditz was just a Super Sayian 3 with died hair?
it may be an extremely flawed form, but it's still my favorite appearance wise.
Shenro same, but it could use some eyebrows XD
I agree its my favorite to even with the big problems
Mine is ssj2
I like ssj 4 better
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
For me, the best part of the transformation was the music! That guitar was legendary!!
Take arguments about Kaioken and apply them to SSJ3.
Antarion Only Kaioken lasts seconds and SS3 lasts minutes.
Minutes in a fight is a long time.
What if Piccolo had God Ki as well?? He did fuse with Kami who was a diety(sort of).... Maybe a bit farfetched but fun to think about :)
I agree.. I always thought that namekians would be the ultimate beings because they created the dragonballs.
So wait... if Toriyama thought SSJ3 was SSJ2 does that mean he thought SSJ2 was SSJ1 this entire time?... which could explain why there isn't lightning sometimes when a character is clearly meant to be in SSJ2?... Also i REALLY love SSJ3 Goku's art design... it's still my favorite look so i'm probably in the minority that is disappointed that it never got a lot of screen time
Toriyama had nothing to do with the anime. Only the Manga. The reason why SSJ2 often doesn't have lighting is simply the animation budget. Those lighting effects are costly, so they just left them out most of the time. Also in the first print of the Manga (the one Toriyama actually wrote) the Super Saiyan forms never even got any numbers. Super Saiyan 2 was never named in the story and SSJ3 was just called "Mega Super Saiyan". So it's not that Toriyama forgot it, it's just that he never even invented the numerical names.
JackOfen Wait what? SSJ3 in the manga was called Mega Super Saiyan...? i need to check that
MysticFate
Yes, it was called that in the first print. Subsequent prints named it Super Saiyan 3 however, but those prints had changes ordered by Toei and not Toriyama himself. Some of the earlier video games even call SSJ3 Goku "Mega Goku".
Also in the first print of the Manga the Super Saiyan Grade 2 and 3 are called "Ultra Super Saiyan" and "Ultra Super Saiyan 2" some even call them like that today.
JackOfen Ahh... i was just going to say that in my copy of the manga it says "Super Saiyan Level 3" for chapter 280... has anyone ever covered this before...? i would imagine i would have heard Geekdom say it in a video or something unless i just completely missed it
MysticFate no, he thought there were only 2 forms, he forgot that SS2 existed and thought SS3 was 2.
You know the reason why Toriyama forgot the Super Saiyan 2 tranformation? Because it is never named in the Manga. And all that Toriyama really did was the Manga, he didn't care that much about the anime. Even Super Saiyan 3 was at first called "Mega Super Saiyan". I even still have the first edition of the Manga. It's not that he forgot about it. It's just that he never even invented the numerical names for the tranformations.
Prince don't need that bulky bad transformation! Prince has got Mastered Super Saiyan Blue!
i am swagmaster
Dragon Hindi X Super Saiyan 3 isn't bulky.
He didnt even master blue yet
hahahhaha it only happened in the manga and only after Goku has done it,
Bartosz Rospondek ok
a better title: "5 REASONS WHY VEGETA NEVER WENT EVEN FURTHER BEYOND"
He did with ssj blue evolution 🙃
Reason 6. It's because he wanted to copy Freezer in DBZ Kai Abridged
what?
Reason 7. Because it's totally asenine to animators.
Does anyone think there could be a SSJ3 Vegito? It would be cool to see honestly... even Vegito in DBS would be awesome.
I have a question and I just realized this... Whatever happened to Vegeta scars? Did they disappear when he was revived? Or when his body was put back together?
TheAthens619 or just like always Toriyama just forgot
To be honest, I forgot about those too, so I'm forgiving Toriyama on this one if he forgot them. Then again, that might just be my oriëntation. If I were into men, I might have remembered those scenes where he was shirtless more vividly...
simple he used bulmas money and got cosmetic surgery
martijn van weele I honestly forgot Vegeta had any scars TBH. Funny enough the only one I remember now is the one above his ass for his missing tail
As I said, I don't really look at mens' asses all that intently...
8:15 Ugh.... I can't believe I have to keep telling people this.
Vegeta. Didn't. Cheat.
1: In order to go ssj4 for the first time, you need to turn into a golden great ape, which happens when a strong enough saiyan gets exposed to the specific type of radiation given off by a full moon's light. You then need to learn to harness your great ape form and turn it into your own power.
2: The thing that triggers the great ape transformation is a made-up type of radiation that vegeta calls blutz waves, as he explained durig his first fight with Goku, all the way back during the Saiyan saga of the DBZ series.
3: The blutz wave generator was litteraly just creating artificial moonlight so that Vegeta could transform into his great ape form, since there was no full moon during his transformation.
TL;DR - It's not cheating to get the form. It's more like someone borrowing a car so that they can even participate in a street race to begin with.
Yep. I used to get bothered by this alot. But now that Super came along Vegeta has undeniably shown his strength/worth by achieving Blue without going through the God ritual first, so in my mind while he managed to "catch up" with Goku in GT, he instead both kept up in Super and one-upped him by achieving Blue without a powerboost first.
I should point out though that the reason Vegeta needed the blutz wave generator was because he needed more powerful/concentrated blutz waves than those from the moon because he didn't have his tail at the time. Otherwise he would have just used the fake energy moon technique he used in the Saiyan Saga. But yes, all it did was enable the Oozaru transformation, like the moon did for Goku, Vegeta had to do the rest, and he did it much more efficiently than Goku too since he has control over the Oozaru state which Goku definitely doesn't.
TL;DR - Vegeta is a clever badass in both GT and Super and deserves much more respect.
ThisName DoesntMatter It's impossible for Vegeta to cheat. Unless you're from heroes, it's another story. Vegeta needed to be an Oozaru. He achieved ss4 on his own. Simple as that. It's like borrowing a pencil to finish a test.
You missed the point entirely. It's not like steroids because it didn't boost Vegeta's strength. At all. He didn't have a tail to absorb normal blutz waves, so he had to absorb blutz waves through his skin instead. The blutz waves had to be stronger for that to work, so machine instead of moon. That's it. It's just to trigger the Oozaru transformation. If using the machine is "cheating" then so is using the moon, which it obviously isn't.
Also people overlook the fact that baby was inside Vegeta's body because Vegeta was able to go golden ape.
Link to that scene here: ruclips.net/video/0hdbkkR5KM4/видео.html
Brandy .Ortiz It's Because the Blutz waves, if enough, can turn a Saiyan in to a Great Ape/Golden Great Ape even if he doesn't have a tail, but to do so the Saiyan needs a much bigger quantity of Blutz waves than a Saiyan with a tail.
Vegeta couldn't go SSJ4 until the Shadow Dragon arc because even if he could have become a Golden Great Ape and easly control the form, Baby's blood was still inside his body, and to become a SSJ4 you need to be a full bloded Saiyan.
People say it's impossible, but why? I feel like we assume it can only be done in other world, because only Goku did it. However, in Super Goku clearly states that Caulifla is practically knocking on the door to turn SSJ3 and I feel like we're going to end up with her going SSJ3 by the time it's over. Do I want that? No, but a female SSJ3? MARKETING GO.
Secondly Goku burning through time is anime only iirc. If Goku had gone SSJ3 versus Majin Vegeta, he'd of crushed him. The time bit is something no one other than King Kai and Goku knew about(anime wise) and the stamina drain is non existent when he's dead. Hell, I don't imagine Vegeta would magically expect a stamina drain when even Goku, who had the form, was surprised at how much it drained when fighting Buu once alive again.
Side note, why do people keep giving Vegeta credit for learning Super Saiyan Blue all on his own? For doing it better than Goku..? He literally ran up and begged Whis to train him. He didn't go into the gravity chamber and just come out blue. Both him and Goku did the exact same thing. Had Whis teach them.
The reason people give Vegeta credit for going blue on his own, is because he did not do the ritual to go SSJG like Goku did. He obtained the form on his own. Yes both of them got trained by Whis but that was more to perfect the power rather than to just obtain it.
Btw like Tsuki, I agree, the words literally came out of Goku's mouth himself. Saying he found the form all by himself.
Light Rivers the anime made it quite clear that they both discovered/experienced it at the exact same time. Goku gave Vegeta credit on learning SSG on his own, even if we have never seen him do it (in the anime). We can only speculate on how Vegeta learned SSG.
about blue - yes it was first used by Vegeta but it was only something like - I wonder if I can transform in this state into ssj, while about ssjgod was there ever stated that he didn't do the same ritual that Goku did? I think that it was only possibility to achieve that form
the caulifla thing is done and done, it's been hinted by goku, but ever since she went level 2 vs kale broly form before the tournament even started, and you look at how her original design is basically already halfway to that level 3 hairdo it was over before it began. i'm not opposed to it, if goku and vegeta won't do it, it's nice that someone will give the form a real chance (probably ending in a knockout, but hopefully a good fight before that) and power scaling is and has kind of always been broken anyway so why not have somone go from 1 to 3 in a month/week/3days/whatever? they're all irreverent forms anyway with blue and now ultra instinct. future trunks largly unexplained half god half ss2 but still able to be as strong or stronger than blue thing was obnoxious alright and caulifla going 3 seems way more natural than that was and i'd be glad to see the form explored more fully that the total of 5 times it's been used so far (i remember gokus first, gotenks, gotenks round 2, majin buu final fight, and vs trunks not counting movies)
I think "ultra instinct" is the dodging technique that Weiss was trying to teach Goku and Vegeta early in the series, he said even Beerus couldnt do it.
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
@@noonnoon658Don't spam
Cuz he didn't wanted to look alike Raditz
Goku Loves Gramps #Goku#Cares#For#LovedOnes makes sense
Minor flaw in #5, Toriyama didn't really forget what Super Saiyan 3 was, he actually forgot what Super Saiyan 2 was. Likely due to the fact that visually SSJ and SSJ2 are basically the same just with electrical effects. So, as he stated, whenever he thought of SSJ2, he was actually thinking about SSJ3, the form with the long hair.
Cause he didn't want to look like a saibaman
Get it?
Legendary Goku if you watch TFS you'll know but lemme explain a saibaman and raditz have the same power level and raditz has hair like ssj3 in his base form and in TFS they consider him as a saibaman
Do you think SSJ3 could be a good Stamina Training Form? Like you literally walk around and go about life as if you were in the Room of Spirit and Time/ a Gravity Chamber, etc? Not good in COMBAT, but if you needed to get truly to the point of exhaustion/half-death for a free Zenkai, would SSJ3 do the job?
I know this is old but Zenkai do not come from self inflicted wounds
No, and SSJ3 also takes a physical toll on the body as well. Unless there's something like a magical phenomenon such as the fusion of Gotenks, I believe it is not worth the wait. The reason why Goku transformed SSJ3 against Buu is because he was making a gamble like he did with Gohan during the Cell Games.
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
Seeing it on DBZ Kai on toonami Saturday night was great.
TalonGB Why? It’s a remastered version of the DBZ anime that cuts out most of the filler & corrects mistranslations in order to make it more accurate to the manga, and uses the original Japanese soundtrack. In other words, it’s closer to what DBZ was meant to be. I don’t see what’s so bad about it. Is it that bad or are you just a nostalgia fanboy who refuses to admit that the original version of the DBZ anime has flaws?
When Beerus slapped Bulma in Battle Of Gods Vegeta’s angered SSJ2 form was actually stronger than SSJ3 according to Master Roshi
And according to Beerus. But that's not connected with that form he was in. He just got an incredible rage-boost.
Beerus noticed the rage boost, but it disappeared as quickly as it came. At regular SSJ2, neither Goku nor Vegeta peaked Beerus' interest. However when Goku went SSJ3, Beerus finally did get interested in the Saiyans. Showing you how much more powerful a transformation SSJ3 is than SSJ2.
Actually Vegeta went SSJ Rage transformation, like Trunks with Black.
CaoSong SSJ3 is excellent but only for short term experiences, for long term it's bad due to draining too much energy from the user and making it inefficient.
Mendez we'll it was for 2 reason he got asspuled and he got rage boost
Wait but if Super Saiyain 3 is only possible through Magic or through convenience of a Limitless body then why did Goku tell Caulifla that she could probably transform in the tournament of power?
Because of two reasons:
1. Caulifla achieved Super Saiyan 2 way faster than any Saiyan, from Universe 7 or otherwise. before her.
2. Universe 6 Saiyans are inherently more powerful than Universe 7 Saiyans.
Of course, there's also the third reason:
3. MARKETING!
Yeah the Universe 6 Saiyans are WAY stronger.
In base form Cabba can keep up with Goku and Vegeta after Whis' training and years of Hyperbolic time.
I live in the UK, I remember the first time I saw Super Saiyan 3. We just finished the Cell Saga in the UK and that was it, we never heard that DBZ would continue and we never heard otherwise. I thought DBZ had ended for good. Imagine my surprise going on a Holiday to Spain and catching a random episode of the Buu Saga in a hotel waiting room. I didn't want to be anywhere else, not the pool, not in my room, not playing a bunch of games. I was stuck to this pretty bad quality tv that was fuzzy as all hell just so I could absorb what was happening in a language I didn't speak. Nobody believed me afterwards getting home, telling them what I saw. Not my favourite form, but not something i'll forget.
Vegeta under magic influence you mean like majin Vegeta?
Fusion, touched by the power of the dragon balls, or when being transported by Whis or Mafuda....
Super Saiyan 2 has shown up more than Grade 4 in Super
"Marketing" should be a meme.
You think it isn't? Go ahead and google image search "masakox marketing", then. I dare you.
I never really looked because I would forget to lol. I must use it for my internet escapades.
Vegeta wasn’t laughing at Super Saiyan 3 because it was bad, he was laughing at Trunks assuming Super Saiyan 3 was Vegeta’s ultimate form.
You are vastly underestimating SSJ3 imo. If Goku went SSJ3 against Majin Vegeta the fight would of ended in seconds. The drawbacks only really play a part if you are fighting an opponent of similar strength for an extended period of time. Goku even states he could of destroyed Buu right at the start if he didn't drag out the fight for so long so vegeta could get a turn.
Plus with the amount of ki Goku and Vegeta currently have I doubt that SSJ3's stamina drain would be as effective as it was in the Buu arc. PLUS it was the only super saiyan form that was never mastered SSJ1 was mastered against Cell and SSJ2 was pretty much implied to of been mastered by both Goku and Vegeta in the 7 year time skip. Whereas SSJ3 was only attained in the timeskip all its imperfections are likely due to the fact that Goku hadn't mastered it. You can support this by the fact that Later on against Beerus Goku goes SSJ3 with ease compared to when he fought Buu with almost no need to charge to reach the form, against trunks he did the same and later on when he was training on the illusion island with krillen he just casually actived it and deactivated it as easily as he does SSJ1. It's just that the form has lost relevance as most opponents in the multiverse barely reach SSJ1 level and the few that have surpassed SSJ1 are Geniuses who have far surpassed any normal SSJ form. for example Hit, Jiren, Toppo and Frieza. In fact pretty much the only characters I can think of that are around the SSJ3 level would be SSJ2 Caulifla and Kale...
I don't know why I did such a long post on this
Finally someone who appreciates ssj3 and not thinks of only drawbacks, one hit from ssj3 is so much stronger than barrage of those from ssj2, and how much stronger it would be at mastered level?
THANK YOU
Wait but wasn’t goku dead when Berus first came?
no.
The sad thing about SSJ3 its that is Toryama's favorite super sayan form so it could have more potential, but the DBZ's anime told him to not use every time because it cost too much money to anime SSJ3. A super sayan for is supposed to be the big deal like the the 1 and 2 SSJ it was badass, but SSJ3 din't get its badass moments it derserve or not enough.
Vegeta realizing that SSJ3 and was useless and instead deciding to stick with a mastered SSJ2 actually makes a lot of sense. He did the same thing when he decided to stick with Super Saiyan Second Grade instead of using the impractical Third Grade/Ultrua.
As far as number 5 goes, exposed to magic and a huge well of power? So, his Majin state?
I likes that Vegeta perfected his forms to be honest. SS3 is just bad to have and their are other forms to get.
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
I think Vegeta can do SSJ3, but your point 5: irrelevance is the reason why we never saw it
It reminds me of the theory way back then that royal bloods can only make Super saiyan 2 e.g. Trunks and Vegeta. However, they can make their body swell resulting into next type of Super saiyan 2. The theory also provided that warrior saiyan like Goku/Kakarot can transform into Super saiyan 3.(Remember that Goku's father is a great warrior in their race). However, they don't have the swelling of the body in the state of super saiyan 2. Moreover, about Broly, he seem to be a different kind of saiyan.
This is just base from what I read. It is not my claims.
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
@@noonnoon658Stop spamming
No way Trunks "held his own" against SS3 Goku. He was outclassed, stop saying that they were in any way, shape or form close in power.
Andreas Ericson manga
He's saying in the manga, not in the TV show.
Manga is more accurate than the anime, so if the manga says it, agree with that
@@rawsomeawesome8281 not in super, in super the manga started as just promotion for the anime and was like 30 chapters behind before the anime ended
Your teen Trunks impersonation was really good
1. Vegeta or any other Saiyan (non-fused) more than likely cant go Ssj3 as it requires the same mastery Goku did at Ssj to achieve Ssj2 to then master Ssj2 to get to Ssj3. Toriyama has stated that Ssj2 and Ssj3 are just extensions from Ssj so its a fair assumption to assume that the process in achieving Ssj3 is the same too. If Vegeta tried to master Ssj2 in oreder to achieve Ssj3 he would probably die due to the strain on his body... Gotenks is a fused being so he doesnt count due to having unnatural Ki reserves.
2. Super Saiyan 3 is NOT useless it just has more notable drawbacks as the trade off for power and speed are larger. Who's to say that if Goku never achieved the God forms Ssj3 couldnt be mastered or its effects at least lessened? Also it has been stated that transformations using huge amounts of Ki can be regulated with training, e.g. Goku telling Golden freiza in the ROF arc. The fact is before the God forms came along Vegeta probably cried himself to sleep at night that he couldnt go Ssj3 and let not forget Vegeta was the first Saiyan to use Ssj (2nd grade).
2. Trunks in his strengthened Ssj2 from that we saw in the manga is NOT as strong or stronger than Ssj3. Trunks literally powered up as much as he could to release ONE huge attack that managed to match Goku at Ssj3. It is also highly doubtful that a StrSsj2 could match a Ssj3's speed...
Super Saiyan was conceived in part so that Toriyamas assistant wouldn’t have to color in Gokus hair, and he’s said that it was a pain to draw all of Cells spots. SS3 probably wasn’t featured more because the hair was a pain to draw.
I love that Vegeta trains the forms he knows to perfection instead of looking for the next thing. He mastered his Super Saiyan 2 levels beyond Goku's super saiyan 3. He's also doing it with his Super Saiyan Blue form. He's trained it so much that the full extent of his power in SSB should at the very least match Goku in SSB kaioken x10 and possibly even x20. The only guy at the Tournament of Power who can possibly challenge him is Jiren cause he should be able to body everybody else there. Anything less would be inconsistent writing. He's got the most eliminations for a reason. He's a beast.
Hit?
Your head cannon is cancer
i like how he pretends ssj2 can stand up to ssj3. this dude is hilarious.
scurvymouth in battle of Gods arc Vegeta in Super Saiyan 2 was leagues stronger than Goku in Super Saiyan 3 so yes Vegeta could have beat Goku in SS2 back then.
no, he wasn't. he got a rage boost that was gone as fast as it came.
What if: what if Vegeta went with beerus and whis to meet Zamasu (leading to Zamasu taking vegetas body instead)
Trunks being able to go toe-to-toe with Super Saiyan 3 Goku is even more obvious in the manga, where Goku apparently had to channel Super Saiyan God for a brief moment to beat Trunks in that sparring match. That's how much Trunks had refined Super Saiyan 2.
And that's how much bullshit Toiyotaro is producing. In the anime Trunks got one-shooted by a non-serious SSJ3 Goku, how it should have happened. Because, you know, Trunks' base IS NOT x4 stronger than Goku's. You can't change the multiplier of a form by "mastering" it. It only accustoms you to it, so you don't loose much ki and/or stamina while in it. Yet the manga made Goku transform into SSG, the form that was enough to shake the universe, just to fight SSJ2 Trunks. That's just ridiculous.
Argon I still prefer the manga, if only because it shows Trunks's power gains were able to put him on the same level of Goku and Vegeta without him needing to rely on God Ki. Which fits with Super's theme of the Gods being incompetent and/or unnecessary much better.
Oh, and remember how in this video, Masako said that Toriyama has stated in some interviews that full-powered Super Saiyan is all you need? Well, specifically, he stated this in a Saikyo Jump interview in 2014. He said that Super Saiyans 2 and 3 are just powered up variations on the regular Super Saiyan, and that enough training could make a mastered Super Saiyan stronger than 2 or 3 while also consuming less stamina. Why can't Trunks mastering Super Saiyan 2 make him stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku by using this same logic?
Vegeta laughing after being asked to turn SSJ3 was such a great character moment it was like something TFS would have wrote.
I believe that if Super Saiyan Rage isn't said to be a God Form then it is the true next level beyond SS2 because think about this
SS1 was achieved through rage
SS2 was achieved through rage and or training
SS3 was achieved through training
This logically means SS3 is a precursor to the true SS3 because just like SS1 there was forms mid way between SS1 and SS2 so logically it can be inferred the same is with SS2 and SS3 yet Vegeta nor Goku made any mention of a form mid way or anything of the like so what if SS Rage was the true SS3
Rage is just a filler asspull, don't bother coming up with a headcanon or theory to explain it.
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
@@noonnoon658 Stop spamming
I’m almost certain Vegeta would’ve given up as soon as he saw SSJ3 when he fought Goku. He wanted a rematch with Goku and sold his soul to become more powerful, but I’d imagine he’d be devastated to see Goku reach a form he’d never attain
In the line of power, I have to disagree with you, SSJ3 is much stronger and quicker then SSJ2, even M Vecheatah would get destroyed, He'd see the form, feel how over powering it is, He'd try to stay alive, but in the thick of it he would get overpowered and destroyed. Yes the form drains you really quickly but it's Goku, if he were to need that move to win he'd make sure he beats him in the alotted time, I am sure of that, Vecheatah is the natural Supah Elite warriah, but Goku has the techniques that increase his his Ki Energy + output, so yeah, Vecheatah's stronger Goku's a better warriah.
SSJ3 is considerably more powerful than SSJ2 no matter how they cut it, SSJ transformations are multipliers, it doesn't matter how much you perfect the stage below it, the multiplier is still the same.
Case in point Vegeta never reaches SSJ3, and thus has had to spend years only training and perfecting SSJ2... yet when Beerus shows up, he picks apart SSJ2 (both Goku's and Vegeta's) without any effort at all barely even registering that Goku and Vegeta are there... however when Goku busts out SSJ3, even Beerus takes notice. Beerus still defeats SSJ3 Goku effortlessly, but for Beerus to even have his interest peaked a little by it, means it's far beyond SSJ2's capabilities.
To further the point, the only reason Beerus thinks there could be a Super Saiyan God, is because he sees Goku turn Super Saiyan 3.
CaoSong SSJ2 is a 100x multiplier and SSJ3 is a 400x multiplier. So SSJ3 is only 4x stronger than SSJ2 which may as well be nothing when it comes to Beerus.
Also training with a form does increase its effectiveness. Goku and Gohan after perfecting SSJ1 in the time chamber were leagues beyond Vegeta and Trunks who spent their time trying to reach a new form beyond SSJ1 Seeing as Vegeta and Trunks get bodied by Perfect Cell and Goku is fairly even with Cell.
So we could safely assume that a perfected SSJ2 could compete with an untrained SSJ3 especially when the gap is only 4x.
And yet the fact is Beerus DID only take notice and believe a Super Saiyan God was possible after Goku when SSJ3. The facts support this, no matter how little it was, SSJ3 is the power that intrigued Beerus, not SSJ2 from either Goku or Vegeta.
That also being said, SS transformations are only a multiplier. Do you think SSJ2 Vegeta is 4x stronger than SSJ2 Goku? Cause he would have to be 4x stronger than SSJ2 Goku for him to even be able to remotely compete with SSJ3 Goku. (SSJ2 Vegeta isn't 4x more powerful than SSJ2 Goku btw, even with his power amplified by the Majin power he still couldn't get the upper hand over SSJ2 Goku).
Goku, due to the time he was dead, has actually had more time to train in SSJ2 than Vegeta has, and in all cases has also mastered the SSJ2 transformation. You may not understand the way multipliers work, but the higher the base number, the lower the multiple has to be for the resulting number to be massive.
The Veg is definetly more strategic then goku. Like you said, goku is a martial artist, mainly 1 on 1 in a ring. Vegeta is a Soldier, trained in war... He's a tactition. Goku is more of a bruiser...
Yeah, i doubt Majin Vegeta would be able to stay away from Goku if he went SSJ3. Power and Speed increase that SSJ3 offers would be simply too much for Majin Vegeta to handle. If Goku went SSJ3 and was actually fighting seriously he would destroy Majin Vegeta in an instant.
These discussions are what i live for. Ive been waiting for a discussion like this😂
last time i was this early... was never this early actually... crap
SSJ3 has always been my favorite super saiyan transformation. Some of my favorite fights have been done with the SSJ3 form, and I have always loved the design.
GOKU: *SUPER SAIYAN 3.*
VEGETA: *N A N I?*
*VEGETA BLOWS UP*
maybe vegeta might accidentally use the final bomb instead of ssj3
cause final: scream alot
ssj3: scream alot
What if SS3 is mastered?
MAB lowkey impossible
It could be if goku never met beerus
Sam Peters if so i feel like it would take way to long and not even be worth it
If I remember correctly when Beerus shows up, even after years of training with SSJ3, Goku says he hadn't improved it's drawbacks very much... likely he would have to spend hundreds/thousands of years training it to make it work properly.
But hey on the bright side if he trains for 10,000 years he can train under the all powerful Grand Kai lol
It's kinda impossible since SSJ3 drains faster too much energy from the user, so it's transformation is only for emergency purposes, to end conflicts quickly.
Man...I have been watching this for a year. Time flies
*Vegeta is the Fresh Prince Of Gold Hair* not *Fresh Prince Of Long Hair* thats why
Raditz was actually permanently in Limit Breaker + SSJ3 form when he arrived on Earth. He was just too weak :D
I think I'd prefer SSJ4 & 5 over SSJ3; For one, SSJ4 is stated to be stronger and more stable than 3, and two, it's a more natural transformation, being more of an "Oozaru 2" or "Oozaru-Man" form and SSJ5 is just going Super Saiyan 1 on top of that...
(I don't think going Super Oozaru is a prerequisite of achieving SSJ4, just a side effect of Goku & Vegeta becoming Oozaru at their level of power at the time)
SSJ5 doesnt exist, is just a fanmade transformation in DBAF
Yes, yes, I am aware of this... It's a logically reasonable transformation so I decided to include it in my comment...
Its still a fanmade and non cannon transformation
Juaneste SSJ5 isn't simply non-canon, it isn't even official. As you said, it's fan made.
If it's natural, then I think it really does require a Super Oozaru form. I think there are two natural forms: SSJ2 the Oozaru form. And then you work to combine them while taking control, giving you SSJ4. The others aren't forms but mods.
This is excluding the new God-based forms, of course. I don't know if those are natural or entirely artificial forms.
2:30 (just a little fact) Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta was also in dragon ball fusions
tl;dr
Vegeta isn't stupid enough to try.
And as we have seen, that threshold is vast.
I've had this theory SSJ3 is a mystic form. Like Masako said he learns it in spirit world, it drains his time on earth, stuff like that. Also Gotenks can learn it because he is basically a mystical being since he derives from fusion dance. I see DBZ as having two types of ki control. Battle ki and mystic ki. Beings like Gods of destructions and saiyans are heavy and natural with battle ki. (power, levels, kamahamamas, you know lazer beams and screaming) Being like Kias and certain namekian clans are more mystic. (power increases, dragon balls, teleportation) Earthling are are good at either, but also excel at neither. Gohan is good at mystic cause he's part human. Goku is only real good at it because his time in the other world and because he didn't have the rage like most saiyans. just a theory i like the gloss over the show with for fun
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
>mystic
*Mistake
Vegeta Thought The Form was Useless End of Story.
you are wrong ssj3 is like any transformation if it is not masterd you will have Problems with it ,not like what all peaple are saying that the from it self has Problem it self best examble of that is golden friza he didnt master his form so he has Problem with it beside vegeta and goku no has ultra instent and ultra ego so ssj3 is clearly is no Problem for them goku just didnt master it yet agenst buu thats all and he clearly said so ,i dont know whare peaple get the othor stuff from
Well, he used Super Kaioken because that tournament was non-cannon. Things that are stated to be not possible or not true in the cannon part of anime, has often actually happened in the non cannon part. So I won't say that he was able to go "Super Kaioken" because he didn't have any physical limitations. Besides, he had his body, when he was dead in the other world he still felt hunger. Which means he had physical limitations, imo he could learn ssj3 just because their's no concept of time in other world so Goku literally had unimaginable amounts of time to train & achieve ssj3! And when Trunks tells Vegeta to come at him with ssj3, he laughs because he has a much more powerful transformation than ssj3 ie SSGSS. Not because he never thought ssj3 was useless. Plus, ssj3 in Buu arc drained that much stamina because it was a new form, Goku wasn't used to it. It's still a powerful form & drains stamina heavily but it probably drains less stamina than both of the God forms!
Goku: Hey Vegeta wanna hear a joke?
Vegeta:What?
Goku: Super Saiyan 3
Vegeta: I don't get it...
Goku:Exactly!
Hey somebody had to post this joke.
deadpan mode:
Goku: Hey Vegeta, wanna hear a joke?
Vegeta:What!?
Goku: Super Saiyan 3.
Vegeta: I don't get it...
Goku: No, you don't.
honestly, Vegeta may even take some pride over never going SSJ3. He was able to jump straight from SSJ2 to SSJ God and SSJ Blue. He was able to skip a step where Goku couldn't, like skipping a grade in school due to being too smart for your own grade
Trucks got one shot it by Super Saiyan 3 Goku tell me how is that a matchup
P Fierce A.B.P Music in the manga SSJ2 Trunks was stronger than SSJ3 Goku and he had to use SSJGod to knock him out
João Calixto oh I was going by the TV series
Never thought about the Other World or Fusion Dance helping with the acquisition of SS3. Good theory.
It just doesn't look good on him to be honest
I just assumed SS3 was for the pure of heart, Vegeta wasn't shown to be until his right with Buu
1. Same reason he didn't become Super Saiyan God.
rakmal 786 He did though, read the manga
Well, it is never mentioned in the anime that he has not achieved SSJ God. We know he reached Blue so it matters very little in the anime.
Kakkorot transforming into Super Sayian 3 for the first time in DragonBallZ original Funimation English dub against Fat Boo was the first scene I've ever saw and it's what got me into the franchise in the first place
trunks didnt really matched to ssj3 goku when he was ssj2 goku blocked his strongest attsck with just his fingers
Noam Itzhayek he matched him in the manga. To the point where goku had to go God for a split second
Let's say Trunks has his own way to get powerful in the series without appealing to SSJ3.
For example, Super Trunks AND... His *SSJ Rage* transformation, unique.
I always took Vegeta laughing at Trunks about SS3 as just him thinking "oh, I've got something even MORE powerful than that," rather than "SS3 is useless." It was him saying "Oh, you think that's the best Goku and I can do? You've got another thing coming."
SSJ3 is garbage.
SSJ3 is one of my favorite forms. The hair is so outlandish, and the face... It's so intimidating...
Vegeta sees SS3 from the afterlife, sees it in person vs Kid Buu, gives Goku the "You're # 1" speech... and then Goku powers down.
Like the USSJ form with Trunks, Vegeta realized that kind of power output was impractical (not Goku's fault, he's used to being dead). Vegeta is more likely to train for long, fairly even fights wearing down his opponents' stamina given his background (vs Kaio-Ken Goku, Zarbon, the Androids, etc).
And once he perfected SS2 and got really mad about Bulma, he DID do better vs Beerus than SS3 Goku did. So he might have a point.
It was once read some article that said that he didn't have a Super Saiyan 3 because Super Saiyan 3 was hard to draw and animate, which is why Goku and Gotenks now rarely use it
Vegeta is just a really nice guy that doesn't want to risk cracking the world apart like Goku did when he first showed it off.
What makes you think Vegeta didnt learn how to achieve SSJ3? He probably did just to see if he could do, and then thought better of it when he noticed the flaws of the form.
A week later I watch this video, and I just have one thing to say to this, or rather quote from Goku during his fight with Caulifla "Not Bad. You might actually reach Super Saiyan 3 in this fight." Now while she didn't get the chance to have Goku continue to instruct her on how to reach that state, it does indicate that it is possible to reach that state without the use of magic or infinite energy. However if I had to guess, it does call for a great deal of stamina and training to maintain, much like Super Saiyan God or Super Saiyan Blue, though probably more like using the Kaioken while Super Saiyan.
"The scream" yes, for me particularly, the SS3 powerup scene in the Janemba movie. I always get tingles from that scream.
My Head Cannon is that Vegeta DOES know/can go ssj3, but knows that it has too many flaws for him to master and chooses not to us it.
I love Super 3 it's one of my favorite Transformations,another great Vid MasakoX 😎👍
What's hilarious is that Vegeta DID unlock SSJ3.....but only when Baby possessed him. In the official GT Files, Super Baby 2 is comparable to SSJ3 (and has similar features, like the heavy brow, longer hair and muscle growth.)
Super Saiyan 3 is more on hand-to-hand combat and Vegeta likes to use more ki blast than hand to hand combat
A good reason he should still learn it though is because form is different, so you learn something different by learning to use it. And sometimes, new forms are learned by combining old forms. And other times, they serve as a stepping stone to something else.
1) He didn't have a death or life situation to bring it out of him, Goku was already dead, the kids already saw it like, twice, and Vegeta? He never had the chance to learn it because he was alive and never had a challenge to his name even once, besides, with Goku dead, he only trained to keep up, never reached for greater heights as who could challenge him in the first place? He had surpassed Gohan so it was pointless.
2) Even after Buu and he saw the power of Super saiyan 3 he immediately saw the drawbacks before that fight even finished. So after knowing the stamina drain was so insane, he knew it was pointless to bother with a transformation like that, and just focus on super saiyan 2. And as we've seen from Trunks, i'm right. Because SS2 Trunks was able to keep up with SS3 Goku even for a second means that Vegeta would definitely, and actually, we saw Vegeta actually landed a decent blow to Beerus in his SS2 while Goku even as SS3 could not. So, again, theres 2 points of proof that SS2 is easier to master and has none of the draw backs meaning theres no reason to go for SS3 unless you just need that power boost, and if Vegeta wanted he could just use Final Flash or go Ultra or something like that. Besides, he knew about Beerus, and now that he has Godly Ki and what not, why bother with 3?