What Cabba said makes sense, Caulifla asks if he is angry every time he transforms, he says that he doesnt, all he does is focusing the energy on his back, what actually makes sense. Goku, Vegeta and Gohan doesnt have to be angry to transform nowadays, just in first time, just like Cabba, they probbably focus their energy too and transform, the thing is that Cabba, unlikely Goku with Gohan, explained the process of transforming using how he does often, not like the first time through anger and pain, like Goku tried with Gohan.
Mastered or Full powered Super Saiyan was simply just learning how to transform without being angry. You don't waste energy when you are calm and have inner peace, it's a simple part of martial arts. Which is one reason why Gohan couldn't go Super Saiyan 2 easily. He could do it on command but he mentally viewed it as violent and he was so peaceful. So he barred himself mentally from the form, which is 16 told him to let go.
Levonhard this. 100000x this. he explained the mechanism and got the result from kale and caulifla. goku explained the sensation and got it from gohan. 2 approaches. same result, but both approaches work for both instances. cabba tried to insult it out of them. being offended is not the same as being truly enraged like with the other saiyans, so cabba had to work differently.
Joseph Foreman goku didn't explain this to gohan; gohan unlocked it by picturing his friends being killed by frieza and extreme stress from the hyperbolic time chamber. Universe 7 saiyans don't know about the tingly feeling or simply don't experience it. If they did, there is no way future gohan wouldn't have known about it and used it to teach future trunks to go super saiyan; same scenario with gohan. We would've seen gohan effortlessly sailing into super saiyan and super saiyan 2 by using this feeling.
It may not be that the tingly feeling isn't there, but rather Goku never considered it relevant based on his experience and Vegeta's similar heightened emotion transformation. Goku probably figured the transformation had no other avenue to occur.
Daniel Kratoska thats what i mean. goku explained how to unlock it through rage. an explaination is an explanation hahah plus, we dont know what happened aside from a couple chapters hahaha
It's interesting to note that Universe 6's Saiyans being benevolent and living in peaceful times would mean anger coming about being rarer and more detrimental to their psyche... probably... Universe 7's Saiyans were constantly at war, so their anger was somewhat common. It wasn't until Goku, someone who rarely got angry, became extremely angry. It was a huge leap in anger that resulted in becoming Super Saiyan, not just regular anger, and for the Universe 6 Saiyans, a huge leap on that anger scale was probably easier to come by. Cabba and Goku seemed to have very similar innocent personalities.
Diamonddeath Oooooh, yes. I think I get what you’re saying : Metaphorically speaking, gentler spirits have their sense of anger as a spectrum in the shape of a horse saddle, and there’s a ball on one side that needs to be rolled to the other side so as to go from “really calm” to “really angry”, in some objective sense; And for rather meaner Sayians, theirs is more like... an *upside down* saddle; And might I say that “Gentle saddles” have one side irregularly higher up than the other one, because “extreme anger” is at height h, while “inner peace” is at height 0 : There’s a natural resistance in their personality that prevents them from being naturally angry or mean A certain amount of force is applied equally on both balls; that force is defined as how much is needed to bring the ball to the elevated other side of the saddle; that same force isn’t enough to move the ball of the “Mean people”, as they’re in the trench of the “saddle” : They’re constantly angry, so it’s impossible, with that force, to get out of the negative height, AND THEN go from 0 to h... They’ll just have to force even MORE, beyond their confort zone
My theory is that saiyans born without tails have an easier time going super saiyan as a biological defense mechanism to compensate for the inability to turn into an oozaru.
But MEH R&K does that just not mean that multiple people can come to the same conclusion? It is HIS theory that he believes. I thought of the same thing myself does that mean I stole it from the community I do not pay attention to at all on forums nope
Also OctopusHermit that would also explain away Goten and Trunks because as far as we know they were born without their tails as well meaning no oozaru form
I love it when people somehow manage to make so much sense out of nonsense. That said, sometimes I really wish Dragonball ACTUALLY had this much thought put into it... or does it?
Also, Toriyama has went down the genetics rabbit hole before to address the fact that Goten and Trunks didn't have tails, he has stated that the in-story reason is that it is a recessive gene. (The practical reason is that he didn't like having to draw and deal with the tails in the later parts where there was a lot more fighting.) For this reason the idea that he would again use genetics to give an in-story explanation for something that he did out of convenience is not that far fetched.
Kale: Princes Cabba.. Cabba: Please no.. Kale: You lied to me Cabba: I did no such thing! Kale: You *dirty* boy~ Cabba: .... CAULIFLA GET ME OFF THIS PLANET RIGHT NOW HURRY U--
petiteange2005 They were making reference to either TFS and DBZA or to the bad dub the TFS crew got that joke from... he doesn't actually think that Bardock is a scientist
So long story short..... Its like Midichlorians in Star Wars. People prefer the mystery of the Force! Just like Super Saiyans, at 1st it was through emotion, now it's still emotion but with an extra explanation.
Pretty much. The mystery just adds to the overall value of the transformation. But as the saying goes, "Magic is just science that is yet to be understood", Toei just gave us information of how it works for Universe 6 saiyans, thus killing a bit of the mystique but that doesn't mean it works the same way for Universe 7 Saiyans.
Not entirely. The Force was explained as something mystic thats everywere. But since Future Trunks we know that Super Saiyan is passed on from parent to child. And Cell also seemed to have a Super Saiyan Aura thanks to his Saiyan Cells. There is magic in the DB world but the Transformation never seemed like it. Besides that, up until Majin Buu was far more in the SciFi Corner with the exception of the afterlife the Kais and the Dragon Balls. Even the other Saiyan Transformation, the Great Ape, was explained in DBZ.
Close, it's like if the midichlorians only happened in a literal alternate universe, and impacted absolutely nothing about the established cannon, but people still complained about it as if they completely ignored that whole first part. As all the complainers did.
It's also good emotion control to master both as well. Because while Anakin was a good fighter when he was psychotically pissed on Mustafar, he was an even better one when he learned how to use the dark side without it affecting his thinking and rational composure.
People need to realise U6 and U7 Saiyans are basically two different species. U7 Saiyans spent majority of their time eating their own shit and killing others for fun. U6 Saiyans had civilization, well developed planet and possible government(since they have an army). For U7, SSJ is a legend, For U6 it's an obtainable transformation. Not to mention the stronger a Saiyan is the easier it is to tap into that form.
Yup. My theory is that U7 Saiyans transform from rage and U6 from heroic act, like trying to save someone. I think that Cabba didn't transform from rage when he battled Vegeta, but from heroism while trying to save his people. But thats just my theory.
Kemor -the thing is if they are differents vegeta try to transform cabba wouldn't work. -goten and trunks have transform yes but they still have way to go to reach sj2 and sj3. They know how to go sj3 but can't do it without fusion. So even if you know how to if your body can't keep up you won't transform. -the thing masakox say is that the next generation Will have more ease with the transformation but in that universe no one who have transform have a kid yet. -the transformation tingly thing in the back maybe a tip to make it easier to transform but it cant be the "TRIGGER". Cabba was put under pressure with sarada destruction that was the trigger.
The issue, as I view it, isn't that Caulifla and Kale can transform, it's that them doing it feels solely like a means to an end. People wanted female super saiyan, boom, now they're there. But by doing that, it takes away learning something potentially interesting about the two as characters. There is a story and production divide here, and the seams between the two ends are showing. Plus fans of DB have been burned by this kind of thing before, with Goten and Trunks. There impact is significantly lower than there predecessors since Toriyama essentially boosted them to the same level as the other characters to make them more usable in that part of the story. But the result is a lack of impact. Caulifla and Kale (kinda) are a neat idea in theory, but because of the time limit the show puts on the events leading up to the tournament and feeling the need to get them to that same usable point and Goten and Trunks, the results are rushed and honestly bland. Had we had more time with Caulifla and Kale before this, people would be less volatile towards the whole thing. However, had they kept the emotional trauma angle, we could have at least gotten something interesting in these characters backstories to potentially compensate for that and flesh them out more. Maybe they'll do something with these two in the future to make them more than what feels like pandering, but given how other characters in this same series have been treated, it's a very real possibility that this is all of substance we'll get from these characters, and that could factor into the negative response as well. At least that's how I view it.
Yeah I hear ya. If they were gonna intro anew female saiyan why not at least give her her own arc first so you had the time to flesh her out before the tournament of power arc started?
AussieDragoon finally someone using their head! couldnt agree more mate. all this talk of genetics is purely assumption BS and no one realises akira hasnt given any proper justification as to how these three saiyans are so strong even within their universe. so all in all, its just another ass pull powerup, purely for the sake of having characters that can face up to goku and vegeta. they put 0 to little effort in the story... its kinda sad. if it werent for the fight scenes super would suck major donkey balls
Pedro Cardoso bro just calm your ass down. no lie you and dragon are correct but we have not seen enough to justify if they deserve it or not. Who to say beside toryama that it is a ass pull or they have a really tragic backstory to go with it but since this ark has no room for backstory but we can't decide and say what we want as confirmation
Wonderfully put, AussieDragon. It's a medium divide, even; Super Saiyan first came to us with characters built up over dozens to hundreds of manga chapters. Cali and Kale have to be introduced in a cour! Though Masako's going back to actual biology is a welcome twist! Nice to have a geneticist in the house that day? The physical explanation doesn't really bother me, I see it as the mystical rubber meeting the biology road. Prior to this point we could only describe Super Saiyan as an abstract state of being- now at least we know the sensation of it.
I think Toriyama has it so that any child born from a Saiyan ancestor will be part Saiyan. Perhaps those dominant and recessive genes are more related to the ability or inability to more easily access Super Saiyan transformations as opposed to simply being a Saiyan only or Earthling only..
On a side note, combining this a bit with the genetics talk and the fact they're from another universe, in hindsight it kind of makes me wish the Saiyans of Universe 6 had evolved a bit differently - the males more ape-like but with no tails (in a way looking like tailless SSJ 4 Saiyans from GT), while the females looked like they do now but having tails, however their tails possess none of the known weaknesses nor the Oozaru stuff, meaning they got all the perks of the tail with none of the defects.
Great breakdown. Super basically spoonfed us the info imo. Different universe, evolved differently, and went through different events. So of course there would be subtle differences. Once again, dope video. Love the throwback pic to Goku in the 21st tournament when his tail regrew.
..Vegeta may have just opened a whole new gate of evolution for the Saiyan Race in universe 6 by teaching it to cabba (Who in turn taught it to Caulifla.) I'm willing to bet in time, generation after generation, if Cabba, Kale, and Caulifla return to their own universe and teach it to their kin, Super Saiyan as a WHOLE would probably become to saiyans of universe 6 what the Sharingan is to the Uchiha of naruto/naruto shippuden: A societal norm, yet still quite the rite of passage, the completion of it.. something to be proud of. And who says it'll stop there? considering how caulifla managed to obtain super saiyan 2 with a similiar ease, Super Saiyan 2 could quickly replace super saiyan 1 as commonplace, then (If the saiyans have a way to compensate for the RIDICULOUS power drain) super saiyan 3, ..heck, with the legendary super saiyan's arrival, we might even see a canon super saiyan 4.. anything is possible at this point. ...And don't get me started on if Vados started teaching them like Whis did with Goku and Vegeta. The ENTIRE SAIYAN RACE, of universe 6, LITERALLY EVOLVING their way into Godhood. ..This all happening over the course of a few centuries, millienia, you know, stuff like that. Vegeta did good. ..now something off-topic. Vegeta should consider reviving his entire species using the dragon balls... super dragon balls OR namekian OR earth, just SOME kind of dragon ball, wouldn't you say, Masako?
So, when Krillin died.. Goku wasn't really angry, he was just extremely focused on the itch on his back. On the barbarian note, wasn't Caulifla basically one? She was introduced as a loudmouth, eating meat surrounded by a gang. That seemed.. extremely tribal/basic. Not some huge evolutionary difference. So why is she the chosen one? Look, I am fine with new Super Saiyans. I am happy to see female SSJ. The problem with this is there's no backstory, no depth to these characters right now. People are left to assume and they're filling in the blanks with anything they can. That is the problem - when there's no solution, you can freely fill it in yourself and it makes sense to you. However, from a storytelling prospective.. Super fell on its face to get these new Saiyans out. The entire arc is like that, honestly. No universe gets more than a few minutes and that's not enough time to really define any of them.
Shinjiji She is actually rather calm but gets irritated easily, Cabba transformed out of anger but once he got used to the form he simply focused his energy to a part of his body where he felt energy flowing the most and he taught that to Caulifla who tried to teach it to Kale but it didn't work and she transformed out of sadness. This means that the transformation into Super Saiyan is different from person to person and it's based on the individuals state of mind or in Caulifla's case, her massive potential.
I want to say I'm not attacking your prospective or anything before I start. However from mine, you're left to assume that. Throwing around 'potential' and other vague reasons isn't going to cut it imo. We've been with Saiyans for years and understand the majority of them from U7. Now having U6 thrown in with nothing but slapped on vague words is just lazy writing. However, I will say you could be 100% right - the end explanation could be some latent potential of U6.. but the anime does NOTHING to convey that well. The writing is getting extremely lazy.
I agree but the bad writing always leave the intended audience to speculate. Hopefully the manga fixes the mistakes the anime has made. This is solely why the manga should be ahead due to Toei being left to fill in the gaps with notes from Akira and Torotaro
I'm in full agreement there. I look forward to what the manga does. It's really handling the blue transformation well thus far, when compared to the anime. Well, in my opinion. So hopefully U6 gets some attention. I'd love to see them train into those forms or explain what's going on with those Saiyans. I'm really curious if there is actually a story there or if it'll be glossed over. Lol
I understand and agree with the lack of a backstory. Honestly if the tournament started say, a month after the zen-exhibition match then these universes could be fully fledged out and more epic transformations could take place. With Caulifla she was said to have a lot of potential by her brother who worked with Cabba. That is a small justification but with the time they gave us it's the best we'll get
Alleles? Eye color? punnett square? No. NO! I already passed biology class. You cant make me go back! No matter how much you try and disguise it as a, "A Dragon Ball Discussion". No!
To be honest, the whole emotional trauma and stress stuff is WAY overhyped. So far this only happened to Goku and Future Trunks (and maybe vegeta with a lot of leeway in terms of defining stress) Vegeta was so pissed he turned into a supersaiyan out of spite. Gohan was like... Told to get way, way mad. Kid Trunks and Goten just randomly went super saiyan by like... Throwing a fit? Seriously, I always hated Goten and Trunks because of this. And nobody understood my unyielding rage about these kids. And now, after YEARS we finally get female supersaiyans and everyone loses their shit, because they didn't throw a hissy fit before transforming?
well idk if thats true its just that the whole girl super saiyan is finalling happening now so its hyped more, but there wasnt a lot of internet 15 years ago when that first happened
I think everyone will forget about it after the tournament, just like super saiyan rose. Everyone was trippin' when they first heard about it and later on they all liked it :) Very interesting video btw.
*Vegeta:* OH MY GOD SHE IS SO COOL!!! I bet you did something horrid if she's after your blood, boy. *Cabba:* Not really. I think she's jealous Caulifla giving me attention for helping her? Or angry cause I insulted her. *Vegeta:* You mean like some typical high school love triangle?..... but.... For fucks sake!... A.... But... That's so dumb!..... BUT SHE'S SO COOL!..... *BUT THAT'S SO DUMB!!!*
Kale: OH CABBA! Cabba: Please no... Kale: YOU INSULTED ME! Cabba: I'm so sorry! Kale: YOU DIRTY BOY! Cabba: Vegeta-san, please transform into Super Saiyan Blue! I'm serious- Kale: RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! Cabba: AAAAAAAAAAAACK! And at the moment, Cabba realized... he fucked up.
The Universe 6 Saiyans being so strong so fast is understandable. Goku and Vegeta have God Ki and Super Saiyan Blue, Gohan has his full potential unlocked, and Universe 6 just discovered Super Saiyans, so how else would they pose a challenge unless they could evolve so quickly.
Skyrogue19 the best way they could have done it was with a timeskip. the thing that is really aggravating the fan base isn't that they can go super saiyan. it's how fast and easily they are getting it the first time. vegeta trained like hell to achieve it and it took him a long time. Also caulifla getting ssj2 within like one hour of achieving ssj1 and not even knowing it existed was pretty ridiculous.
One major point though, is that evolution is only to better suit their environment,and not to make the organism actually stronger(unless the environment is harsh, which would encourage the evolution of strength). This would suggest that Universe 7 saiyans should have evolved to be stronger due to constant fighting and being less peaceful, unless the beings of Universe 6 are stronger on average than mortals of Universe 7. But let's say, for shits and giggles, the average mortal of Universe 6 is stronger than the average mortal of Universe 7, meaning the evolution of of Universe 6 saiyans would favor making them to be stronger. so why have Universe 6 saiyans never even heard of the form? They never NEEDED to be stronger, which follows the original lore of a NEED to transform. This suggests Universe 6 saiyans have never had the need to exceed their base forms, considering how high they are, meaning their evolution wouldn't improve them near as much as their Universe 7 counterparts who were relatively weak in base and would NEED the strength. Universe 6 saiyans losing their tails isn't a definite sign of increased strength, but in fact the opposite. They didn't need to get stronger. If anything, in my opinion, it really would seem Universe 6 saiyans should have a MUCH more difficult time transforming considering they haven't needed it anywhere near the extent of the much weaker subservient Universe 7 saiyans. I don't think we should apply too much science to this beyond "they evolved to not have tails"
Exactly what I've been saying. It all has to do with different circumstances with how both universes were brought up. Universe 6 Saiyans were privileged to be properly brought up and got to evolve. Back in the DBZ Saiyan saga, tails were shown to be becoming obsolete as well. Universe 7 Saiyans just died out way before that started becoming a factor. Another thing of note is... _Vegeta_ being the one to put Cabba's life in danger just goes to show how low the stakes are for U6 Saiyans. When you inhabit a rather peaceful planet, joining lines of war duty where you have *Frost and the rest of Frieza's race* backing you up and, in fact, doing most of the work, you know for sure that none of the U6 Saiyans are being pushed nearly hard enough to be anywhere near the levels they're reaching now. It just simply doesn't add up. Caulifla outright stating to Cabba initially she literally has no desire for transformation should tell everyone right there how their work ethic is in regards to training.
It seems like Universe 6 saiyans are pretty dominant in their universe, so why would they need to get stronger? Losing the tail makes it seem like their base was so relatively high that they didn't even need the X10 multiplier of of the great ape form.
Broly Sucks Wang So you're saying Goten and Kid Trunks really needed to go Super Saiyan? To do what, fight in a tournament, one in which they would have ended up the finalists just fighting in base form anyways? Or maybe cause Gohan and their dads looked really cool, so decided they wanted to be cool as well?
@Broly Sucks Wang Yes. It's good to see someone using their brains. Also, Masako and his M.S. in Genetics friend are forgetting one crucial thing (if you're using real world genetics for a fictional universe). SAIYANS. ARE. ALIENS. It wouldn't matter that they used to be humans eons ago - the amount of genetic drift and genetic shift (with the acquisition of mutations and traits) would create TOO MANY DIFFERENCES from the original genome, epigenome, and proteome that was present in their ancestral forms. To put it another way for these dullards...Chimpanzees share 96 -98% (depending on the species and genetic material observed) of their genomes with humans. And yet, chimps and humans cannot interbreed. The divergence of the genealogy was too ancient for anything resembling a common ancestor. The interbreeding between Saiyans and humans can only be explained as "Don't know. It must be some unknown Alien copy, complement, and synthesize mechanism to breed with humans." Toriyama probably never even put this much thought into it. As for the Universe 6 Saiyans being this powerful (especially if they have evolved without much stress and risk)...the only thing I can think of is that they must have interbred with some other humanoid alien species that coinhabited Planet Sadala at some point in their ancient past (much like humans have some Neanderthal genes), and thus, resulting in their much, much higher power reserves. If you look carefully, the appearance of Universe 6 Saiyans is different than Universe 7 Saiyans.
Despite that great need for power, however, none of the Universe 7 Saiyans actually achieved the Super Saiyan form since the Legendary Super Saiyan (that we know of) until Goku fought Frieza on Namek. As such, the need for additional power can't be the main factor that contributed to Goku and the gang being genetically able to transform, as opposed to the Universe 6 counterparts. The Universe Six Saiyans HD the same exact grasp of the Super Saiyans transformation as King Vegeta and his Universe 7 brethren did - none at all.
here's a theory, the Legendary Saiyan in universe 7 achieved super saiyan but died because he couldn't control it's power, maybe in Universe 6 the Legendary saiyan did not die and therefore passed the super saiyan gene on eventually the super saiyan gene would of spread through the population over time, this could be why it's so easer for the saiyans in Universe six to achieve the form.
But they had a Legendary Super Saiyan, Broky!!!! As much as you want to say it's not canon Toei have made a huge ass mess with this whole thing by making Kale just a blatant rip off of Broly.
Mergan Naidoo I also always believed brolys power was passed down to him too, like yusuke or gene grey from x men and it would make sense because of how powerful broly was with a power level of 10,000 the day he was born and that was just his resting power and he would have gotten a rage boost when freiza blew up planet Vegeta and I've heard along time ago that broly was born a ss, which isn't crazy for DBZ but kinda makes sense when you look at how much more powerful broly was compared to gohans power level of only 1300 when he attacked raditz
I always figured that's how Goten and Trunks learned at a young age. But future trunks is different he transformed at a older age while getting trained by an even older Gohan in that future time line. Gohan had to die for Trunks to really unlock it. So it's kind of contradictory... I wish akiratoriyama would explain things!
Simple, future trunks didn't start training until he was 13, and Gohan wasn't as experienced so he wasn't as good a mentor as vegeta. The rest is explained in the seeies
Future trunks and trunks arent the same trunks. Maybe future Trunks changing the timeline somehow made it so that Vegeta achieved ssj before he conceived Trunks, but in future Trunks timeline Vegita achieved it after.
In manga Future Trunks had ssj form before Gohan died,,,movie changed it to make it more dramatic,,,the kids had ssj genes engraved in them thus they were born without tail and going ssj was natural for them, but not ssj2 like this db super shit and tingling is just a lame excuse.
+Super Vegeta That really pisses me off when guys like you play the sexist card.So just because they have a different opinion then yours is sexist, Really?
I agree pulling the sexist card is dumb. I haven't heard a single person say it's stupid that WOMEN can do it that easily. They're upset that it was easy, period. God damn it dude, now you made me defend the people I'm bashing...
Given that Pan was conceived after Gohan had his potential unlocked by the elder Kai, and Bulla after Vegeta became a SSB, (potentially speaking) there's a chance they're stronger than their grandpa and regular pa respectively... maybe they'll accidentally destroy the Earth fighting over a toy or something??? Also, the more super saiyans the merrier; hopefully Chichi, Videl, Bulma and Krillin can turn super saiyan too after being exposed to saiyan nut
anyone get mad? I mean really mad, out of control "I am gonna kill someone" mad? do you remember how physically exhausting it was? how all that emotion poured into your muscles, the strongest of which are surrounding your spine since that is what holds you up? yeah, same deal only human beings don't get super powers out of that sensation.
You know, I used some of the same data about genetics 15 years ago, when a magazine that focused on DBZ explained why Pan was incapable of going Super Saiyan; about how Gohan was born before Goku forced the genetic change to go Super Saiyan, thus had to go through the same emotional trauma that Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks had to, but how Goten and Kid Trunks showed that the Super Saiyan transformation was an inherited trait. I also explained how, since Goku Jr, Pan's grandson, was able to go Super Saiyan without trouble showed that even though Pan never activated the transformation, she was capable of doing so. So Kudos, Masako, for bringing back that line of thinking in a new form. Good to see some support for something that I've been saying for years.
Saiyan genes are dominant, unless the other half of the couple is named Bulma. Then her genes aggressively create female clones of herself or weird male hybrids.
Xaviikinz I think hair and eye color is recessive in saiyans..Chichi has black hair and eyes which is why both Gohan and Goten have them..and Pan gets her black eyes from chichi as well..its evident with vegetas kids that their hair and eye color are recessive since black would usually be dominate over blue.
If we go along with your theory, wouldn't it be a total piece of cake for Bulma to do some gene manipulation to ensure a child is born a Saiyan? I don't think we have to be afraid the Saiyan species is going to die out anytime soon.
Potentially, yeah. If the Saiyan gene were just one component of humanoid DNA, then she could isolate it and ensure the Saiyan race never goes properly extinct.
As a biologist, I can tell you that it is possible but not something I see Dragon Ball characters do at all as it involves surgical processes and other "self-activities" if you know what I mean plus a bunch of ethical dilemmas. That's our science though of course, if you use anime science... maybe? idk. The show will never dive in to science that much to explain its lore.
I'd argue that we actually can't say. Because Vegeta might actually have already been a SSJ biologically, as he went into space to train right after Trunks was conceived and it was there that he finally let go and transformed. With Vegeta it wasn't that he wasn't angry enough or hadn't transformed, it seemed more like he was getting over his own mental blocks that stopped him from transforming. With him, it was only when his outlook changed.
We don't know WHEN Vegeta actually first turned Super Saiyan. We only know when he REVEALED it to the others. Everyone was busy training for the Androids, so no one had seen Vegeta in three years except Bulma, obviously.
Carl Rood no there is a scene while vegeta is in space after trunks was conceived; it showed vegeta on a dying planet struggling to protect his ship because without it, he would die as well. He was also really badly injured. The physical stress, the struggle to survive, and his pride issue because goku unlocked super saiyan caused him to transform as well, giving him the power he needed to save his ship and get of the planet.
Doesn't this mean that bulla will have an easier time transforming into SSJ, SSJ2, SSJG (Red), and SSJGSS (Blue)? You know since Vegeta could do all those things by the time she was conceived.
The internet wasn't a thing when Goten and Trunks went ssj. That's why you don't remember any outrage because you and your 3 friends didn't bring it up during lunch period
Bullcrap. We were watching shit clips of DBZ online by that time. I remember ordering the VHS tapes of Future Trunks vs Freeza because it hadn't come out in English yet. The internet wasn't the same, but it very much existed and people were writing blogs and stuff about DBZ and people were commenting.
well its not out of the question that a super saiyan could have existed and the race being less power hungry than U7 didn't feel the need to pass that on, but its more likely that the set of circumstances to make someone go super saiyan without knowing the feeling just never presented itself to them.
Based on this video, I think its because the war on planet Sadal didn't happen in U6, which is why they don't have an SS legend but still has the potential. If U6 Saiyans aren't warlike then they didn't ever push themselves toward that level of power but they had the potential all along. Maybe the U6 Saiyans are as strong as Goku was on Namek but remained in base form this whole time. There was no Freeza to push them toward needing that power as Frost was hiding his actual motives. Frost is also smarter so maybe they were sent on more calculated and organized missions, where as Freeza was greedy, arrogant and impulsive which sent the U7 Saiyans on suicide missions regularly therefore they needed more power to stay alive and please Freeza.
This is all I got for an idea on how the saiyans between the two universes work. Vegeta: Cabba what the hell are the saiyans of Universe 6 like? Cabba: Well Vegeta, we are smarter than the average saiyan.
I may not be a degree in biology, but I think I can clear a couple things up.What you describe as epigenetics is actually mutation, random changes in the dna that will cause random effects. Anything from cancer to higher iq. Epigenetics is better shown in this experiment: If you train mice to dislike a smell, they can pass that dislike on to their offspring (via activated genes). This perfectly explains the half saiyans in dbz. Universe 6 saiyans would have 0 help from epigenetics, since no saiyans had their parents go super saiyan. The theory that since they have more generations they should have more developed super saiyan genes is also wrong, since (as far as we know) there isnt a way to select for it, and thus the only thing affecting it would be mutations, which are equally likely to breed it out of them. However, I do have another theory along the same line, regarding saiyan tails. Saiyan tails, while evolving to give access to the ozaru form, also had the job of inhibiting excess power (else they couldn't stop growing, and would... Well, pop). This hugely crippled the raw power of saiyans in universe 6, since the generations of saiyans selecting mates for power ALSO were selecting for its inhibitor, due to their pride for the legendary super saiyan who became a golden ozaru (the inhibitor didnt work do to a genetic mutation, so when he transformed into an ozaru he also went super saiyan, and continued growing until he died of his own power). This explains why vegeta was as weak as he was during the saiyan saga, considering the countless zenkai boosts he must have got in his life under frieza, and he only started really climbing in power when he had his tail removed. Universe 6 had a different story. After they became the sole scientific beings on their planet (since they didnt migrate homeworlds), the ozaru form became an active detriment to societal progress. That means the tails gotta go (remember, universe 6 saiyans evolved them away). Evolution deals with things in a funny way though, it just does things "enough", humans for example still have a tail bone. Its possible that when they evolved away the tail, they kept a weaker form of the suppressor, and than moved it up the back because its sensitivity (would suck to sit on that, or compress it with your fightin muscles). Now all they have to do to go super saiyan is turn off that inhibitor, which would seem like gathering ki in a strangely sensitive place in the back. That also explains why universe 6 saiyans are so much stronger, remember that nappa was an elite, and king vegeta's power level was hovering around 10k, while 6's is one of the strongest species in the multiverse. (edited for format)
I agree with the selection hypothesis. While the vestigial tail and power inhibition hypothesis sounds plausible, the Ozaru form and Super Saiyan transformations aren't necessarily linked via genetics. The Ozaru form, if anything, has become recessive and lies dormant in the Universe 6 saiyans today. The implausibility remains, such that Saiyans who have never before "transformed" into Super Saiyans do not have the epigenetic selections necessary to trigger the change. Now, I'm not saying the change should be difficult. These Universe 6 Saiyans may indeed be able to become stronger with less effort. However, the point remains that these Saiyans (who, for the most part, do not have any formal martial arts experience or spiritual training/attunement) can effortlessly tap into power they never trained to have, or gathered over time. What we have here is lead being turned into gold. (Pun slightly intended) Or, in other words, getting something from nothing. And for one reason or another, it's making sense when it shouldn't.
I just feel like Super Saiyan is a form that should be treated with respect in the DB universe. Super Saiyan was such a game changer back in the day that's still being used as a template for any character that reaches a new form or power level. Seeing characters like Trucks, Goten, the Universe 6 Saiyans, and any future character just sneezing into the Super form is just infuriating.
This isn't entirely accurate on how hereditary traits work. Embryos go through a series of gene swaps from father to mother and vice versa. This would mean that genetically pan could be half saiyan at most, but could be 25% or anywhere else between 0 and 50. The point should also be made that saiyan genes could be wholly different and not necessarily work as pairs in all cases. There are plenty of humans walking around with triplicate dna. Many cause really bad side effect, but some are just fine. If saiyans had triplicate stable dna, gohan could be 66% saiyan meaning 2/3 of his children with videl could also inherit saiyan traits. That last portion is very speculative, but still possible. If you had 2 races existing on a planet that could intermingle, the chances of the pure version of either dieing out through interbreeding is very slim, but if one had a distinct advantage, it makes it more likely for that race to eventually beat out the other. It's a similar situation to homosapian vs neanderthal. All humans alive now are some part neanderthal, but neanderthal genes are slowly getting diluted out of the gene pool with some people being 1% or less. This is because neanderthals had a notoriously harder time surviving, but still interbred with homosapiens. This could explain how saiyans are viewed as the dominant race on the planet still. This would also bode well for saiyan offspring on earth as a dominant mutation that benifits the offspring is much more likely to be passed on than one that is detrimental. This means gohan may have kids who don't become saiyans, but due to this, they may not reproduce. It would still take millennia for saiyans to become a prevalent part of earth society, but it would make it almost inevitable so long as a foothold became established. If gohan, trunks, goten, bra, and pan all have a LOT of kids, the chances of the saiyan race dominating earth would almost be guaranteed.
Randall Edwards This was exactly what I was going to say. There was also a problem with what he said about hybrids not being able to have viable offspring, which was disproven in the last 10-15 years with Ligers producing Liligers. Just like with homosapians and neanderthals being two different species of humans. So Gohan is still a hybrid, even though he has a viable kid.
I like your idea! It could be even worse though (for humanity), the extra set of Saiyan genes could actually act as some sort of parasite, making sure it is passed on to EVERY offspring, not a 2/3 percentage. Then you would have 'pure' Saiyan offspring 100%. There is no telling how this DNA acts and it wouldn't need to follow any rules that our DNA is bound to, since it shouldn't even be possible to have offspring between 2 beings from different planets.
I didn't have a problem with them going super saiyan. I had a problem with caulifla going super saiyan 2 she did it like an hour after figuring out how to go super saiyan.
mahoromatic02 It's all up to personal preference in the end but I sort of feel caulifla's premature ssj2 transformation retracts from the struggle that characters went through to obtain it. Also the god froms are sort of different in the way they work. They aren't obtained in a traditional manner a fail to follow the linear progression of previous tranformations.
extrememark13 to be honest it's definitely an issue with dragon ball. I've come to terms with characters stumbling into normal super saiyan, although I still think it's ridiculous. Ssj2 caulifla came without any warning and it wasn't even addressed at all in the episode.
Seathify I see what you mean man. i guess im just one of those people who just gets what the writers are trying to do and is ok with it. by that i mean they are trying to differentiate the U6 Saiyans, from the U7.
As someone with a Masters in genetics as well, I found this discussion to be really interesting. The difference in environment would certainly alter the expression of genes between the Saiyans of Universe 6 and 7. Btw, here's a fun little conundrum: Every offspring is the same species as their parent. By that logic, evolution shouldn't be possible. Think on that one for a while. ;)
You actually completely changed my mind how I feel about the Universe 6 Saiyans. And this could mean they've had super saiyans for quite a while, so there could be some good stories to tell.
Can we get an update vid on this with the Dragon Ball Online “humans” and Beat & Note from Dragon Ball Heroes since they’re Saiyan descendants from like 500+ years in the future
This is why I like u Masako, u are just like me in terms of intelligence, rational, & open-mindness/wisdom. U look to find logical reasoning&thought in every discussion nor do u shoot anything down (unless need be), and u are always open for dialogue. I wish to do a video/discussion with u someday. Big ups on your channel success. God bless!
Wait were people actually angry about the two female saiyans going super saiyan? It's an alternate universe, they could have a foot for a tongue and hitting a ball with there finger could turn them super lmao
Wheyrlen Dragonfist and that would be lousy writing. i swear you guys are missing the point. The problem is NOT that it Doesn't make sense! Any idiot can make up half-ass biological speculations ... What the problem is, is that IT'S SHIT Writing! having the SSJ form not represent character development, or relate to a story's conflicts is fuckin boring! Nothing will fix that!
KittyMiloJustice Thing is these aren't meant to be identical universes, they are clearly said to be "nearly identical" with clear differences such as Earth having been devastated of all life due to a war and the Saiyans remaining on Sadla & long since lost their tails in U6. This clearly shows the U6 Saiyans evolved differently which means there are differences in their biology and that their capabilities aren't necessarily analogous to that of the U7 Saiyans, and this is an important consideration to have in mind when judging them.
Maybe Cabba first achieved SSJ not through rage but from heroic act. Think about it, if Universe 6 and 7 are opposites, maybe their transformations works like a mirror image. One draws power from rage, other from heroism (trying to save someone). Although I personally don't like U6 method of transformation, it makes some sense.
It doesn't have to be something "cool" just not asinine lol You know I used to write one of my stories alongside another group and everybody had their own character but it was primarily all MY setting/lore, so every time this other guy wanted to make some transformation to make his character stronger than everybody else because that's just who HE was , I asked him some questions about how the transformation was achieved and he could never come up with anything that didn't sound ridiculous. I hope that isn't what's going on here.
NO YOU IDIOT IF YOU ACTUALLY WATCHED SUPER YOUD KNOW CABBA ACHEIVED SUPER SAYIN THROUGH RAGE AND CAULIFLA AND KALE BOTH ACHEIVED IT THROUGH DIFFERENT METHODS NON OF WHICH WERE HEROISM
I honestly think that this might have something to with that Cabba is the first one to actually take time to think about the transformation. Sure, Goku had a year on Yardrat where he learned to control the transformation better, but he's a natural fighter, he doesn't so much think about fighting as much as he just does it; plus he was probably moreso enamored with perfecting his new Instant Transmission. Cabba was not immediately bombarded with a crisis, so he gave himself time to figure it out.
Shinji D, I'll say, if you say stuff like x show was my childhood, y game is my childhood or stuff like that, chances are that your childhood was indeed crap.
Saying "x was my childhood" isn't a literal statement. No, most people who use the phrase didn't have childhoods that revolved around that thing; they're just saying that it was a big part of it. It's not that deep. Assuming someone's childhood was crap because they have something they can be nolstalgic about is one of the silliest things I've heard.
Lol if Gohan turned into a super saiyan out of the pod Raditz would lose his shit. Even more so than he did originally xD I'd prefer if he went super saiyan when Piccolo died. "Oh yeah you were there. Why didn't you go Super Saiyan?"
exl299 It's more of a turquoise than straight up green, in fact I grew up thinking they were blue and had a heated debate over this in the comment section of another vid years ago but we agreed in the end that they were neither green nor blue, but a mix. Besides, it wasn't like a constant thing, sometimes from episode to episode it changes... cause inconsistency
I have a question involving these genetics. Genetically, shouldn't Trunks and Future Trunks be the same person? The timeline split that makes them different happened after birth, so they shouldn't have any different genetics. Yet for Future Trunks, achieving Super Saiyan was a struggle and he had to achieve it through trauma. Present/Kid Trunks however achieved the form much more easily than his future counterpart. How could this be if it relies on genetics?
maybe due to trunks came to the past before he was born it changed enough of the timeline. for example with his appearance in the freeza fight he could've saved vegetas nuts. so that trunks might just be a lookalike of our trunks. but that's just my opinion
or maybe there is a mental component to the transformation. Little Trunks has a different personality then future trunks because his father ( with whom he trains by the way) is still around. so for example more confidence, quicker ascension to ssj. Califla is also overflowing with confidence. Just a theory
All of these theories are bullshit and I will tell you why. In DBZ we had a common motif and that was that the characters were becoming stronger just because the plot demanded it, which caused an insane powercreep. This concept is way more obvious in super. The real reason they became SSJ was because the plot demanded it, nothing more nothing less. These theories are just fans that struggle to defend and rationalise a very badly written series. I am speaking as a person who reads lot of literature and has read all of Toriyama's interviews and many of his responds to fans.
Nope,in fact goku and vegeta do not have god kii outside of their super saiyan blue form.That being said it was impressive that Cabba was equal to base Vegeta that trained with Whis.
I mean there are time when They fight in base form and are ridiculously strong. Like base Goku lasting longer against Hit than SSB Vegeta. My theory is that they can turn essence off and on.
caulifla was the only one that used the method if you pay attention kabba just explained the feeling and it didn't work for kale till she got emotional
Biologist around here: Species is quite complicated to define, and reproduction across different species with viable offspring is quite common: Chromosome number is VERY important for being able to have offspring, so hybrids coming from species with the same number of those are usually able to reproduce, while those coming from species with different numbers are usually sterile. Turns out, horses/donkeys or tiger/lions have different numbers, and so the hybrids are sterile. But wolves/coyotes, for example, have the same number, and their hybrids are able to reproduce, and have populations in the wild functioning differently from either parent species.
Yeah, but they could have done a better background work, build the characters a little more. Intense sparring? Add some risky situation maybe? No! Let's just copy Broly movie. Caulifla SSJ2 is so... "oh yea, super saiyan..."
Yep I totally agree. Or SS... already known and unlocked. In the tournie it would not have mattered much. Vegeta could have opened Cabba's mind to higher levels regardless and when we end up seeing the other universe we just see the others are SS and they're recruited and trained in the hyperbolic timechamber there or simply had intense training with Vados. Don't even show details. Imply they'd been at it. Because a lot of people claim this and that about their base power etc but the problem is... nothing is decently explained to make it believable following the internalized logic of the show. Hence I suspect they came up with all this really on the spot with little planning ahead. Hopefully the manga goes about it better.
Well... let's not forget that Krillin is still pretty strong. We all give the guy shit, but he's arguably the strongest human. At least the strongest with two eyes. If power can be inherited, then Pan would be... mystic. I guess.
The bit about why Trunks and Goten can go SS easier because their fathers had done it contains a massive error: Vegeta had not achieved SS before Trunks' conception. Those genes would not have been "switched on" in the same way they had in Goku before Goten's conception. But, all in all, fascinating theory!
*This was relieving. It's still unsettling with this "tingly" description, but it is what it is. Now only if that Kale scene wasn't a complete knockoff. . .*
Rayquaoxys3846 I was thinking the exact same thing during the video. I think the easier explanation is that (since GT is non-canon it does not apply) a being with dominant Saiyan genes can evolve past the point of having tails. Goten, Trunks, Pan, Bra, Cabba, Kale, Caulifla were born without tails. No tails probably forces the body to develop Super Saiyan easily as a defense mechanism.
Also..future trunks had a hard time going Ssj at first and didnt get it until 13-14..why did kid trunks unlock it so quickly at 8(assuming her didnt do so earlier) Future trunks had the mental trauma and motivation to go ssj as well as the need. While Kid Trunks had neither.
Rayquaoxys3846 I lile the genetic reasoning for Goten, I'm also fairly certain Trunks was conceived before Vegeta became a Super Saiyan. I imagine it may have been Trunks training with Vegeta or sparring matches with Goten when they played together that lead to current timeline Trunks early Super Saiyan transformation
I gave that a lot of thought and i think its because he had the ability and more than enough strength and power to he just hadnt figured out the trigger. and Vegeta might have almost or partially transformed offscreen during one of his gravity chamber training sessions. and sense nobody saw it to say he almost did he didnt know.
in a more peaceful society of saiyans though, statistically fewer and fewer would be transforming into super saiyans though, as evidenced by Cabba's complete unfamiliarity with the form when Vegeta showed it off. Therefore Cabba, Kale, and Caulifla should have about as much difficulty transforming as did Goku, Vegeta, Future Trunks, and Gohan.
oh yeah because Goku, Vegeta, Future Trunks, and Gohan have no fucking emotional depth at all. Get the fuck out of here, that's a steaming load of bullshit and you know it.
I'm just saiying that their evolution path was much less violent and warlike so it makes some sense that rage would be less of a factor. Goku and Gohan mastered Super Saiyan and regulated the emotion and rage needed and we know that Saiyans are naturally more violent and aggressive than humans in U7. U6 Saiyans seem basically human as opposed to the ancient marauding Saiyans with the Tuffles or the modern mercenaries under Frieza.
agreed it was much less violent and warlike. Therefore it was much less stressful, and therefore the Saiyans wouldn't be so encouraged to be a warrior race, and the Super Saiyan transformation should at least be ass difficult for them as it was for the main characters.
The Super Saiyan transformation seems to be a matter of power as much as emotion. Take Vegeta, Goku, Gohan, and Future Trunks incredibly harrowing transformations and compare them to Goten and Kid Trunks super easy transformations. At a certain point, simply having the power is half the battle, the transformation would never have been found by the U6 Saiyans without Vegeta telling them because they couldn't even transform accidentally like Goten who had no idea of it's existence either. U7 Saiyans never would have reached the same levels of power as U7 Saiyans because they kept dying off due to Frieza sending them off on suicide missions before ultimately killing them all. Still, they were aware of the SS and Great Ape forms due to their usage in their history. U6 seem to have neither because they never were that mercenary, marauding band of genocidal monsters.
There's just one thing that might be a factor here that a lot of people are forgetting: IT'S LITERALLY AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE. Screw the alternate history, screw the genetics, they just simply don't HAVE to work the same way. This isn't to say it's an excuse to use "It's magic, I don't have to explain it," it's just that there's more than likely an In-Universe reason for it, literally.
What Cabba said makes sense, Caulifla asks if he is angry every time he transforms, he says that he doesnt, all he does is focusing the energy on his back, what actually makes sense. Goku, Vegeta and Gohan doesnt have to be angry to transform nowadays, just in first time, just like Cabba, they probbably focus their energy too and transform, the thing is that Cabba, unlikely Goku with Gohan, explained the process of transforming using how he does often, not like the first time through anger and pain, like Goku tried with Gohan.
Mastered or Full powered Super Saiyan was simply just learning how to transform without being angry. You don't waste energy when you are calm and have inner peace, it's a simple part of martial arts. Which is one reason why Gohan couldn't go Super Saiyan 2 easily. He could do it on command but he mentally viewed it as violent and he was so peaceful. So he barred himself mentally from the form, which is 16 told him to let go.
Levonhard this. 100000x this. he explained the mechanism and got the result from kale and caulifla. goku explained the sensation and got it from gohan. 2 approaches. same result, but both approaches work for both instances. cabba tried to insult it out of them. being offended is not the same as being truly enraged like with the other saiyans, so cabba had to work differently.
Joseph Foreman goku didn't explain this to gohan; gohan unlocked it by picturing his friends being killed by frieza and extreme stress from the hyperbolic time chamber. Universe 7 saiyans don't know about the tingly feeling or simply don't experience it. If they did, there is no way future gohan wouldn't have known about it and used it to teach future trunks to go super saiyan; same scenario with gohan. We would've seen gohan effortlessly sailing into super saiyan and super saiyan 2 by using this feeling.
It may not be that the tingly feeling isn't there, but rather Goku never considered it relevant based on his experience and Vegeta's similar heightened emotion transformation. Goku probably figured the transformation had no other avenue to occur.
Daniel Kratoska thats what i mean. goku explained how to unlock it through rage. an explaination is an explanation hahah plus, we dont know what happened aside from a couple chapters hahaha
It's interesting to note that Universe 6's Saiyans being benevolent and living in peaceful times would mean anger coming about being rarer and more detrimental to their psyche... probably... Universe 7's Saiyans were constantly at war, so their anger was somewhat common. It wasn't until Goku, someone who rarely got angry, became extremely angry. It was a huge leap in anger that resulted in becoming Super Saiyan, not just regular anger, and for the Universe 6 Saiyans, a huge leap on that anger scale was probably easier to come by. Cabba and Goku seemed to have very similar innocent personalities.
Diamonddeath
Oooooh, yes. I think I get what you’re saying :
Metaphorically speaking, gentler spirits have their sense of anger as a spectrum in the shape of a horse saddle, and there’s a ball on one side that needs to be rolled to the other side so as to go from “really calm” to “really angry”, in some objective sense;
And for rather meaner Sayians, theirs is more like... an *upside down* saddle;
And might I say that “Gentle saddles” have one side irregularly higher up than the other one, because “extreme anger” is at height h, while “inner peace” is at height 0 : There’s a natural resistance in their personality that prevents them from being naturally angry or mean
A certain amount of force is applied equally on both balls; that force is defined as how much is needed to bring the ball to the elevated other side of the saddle; that same force isn’t enough to move the ball of the “Mean people”, as they’re in the trench of the “saddle” : They’re constantly angry, so it’s impossible, with that force, to get out of the negative height, AND THEN go from 0 to h...
They’ll just have to force even MORE, beyond their confort zone
My theory is that saiyans born without tails have an easier time going super saiyan as a biological defense mechanism to compensate for the inability to turn into an oozaru.
OctopusHermit You sir, get a cookie and a like!
OctopusHermit best response I've seen to this
OctopusHermit that's not your theory, its a very popular one in the db community
But MEH R&K does that just not mean that multiple people can come to the same conclusion? It is HIS theory that he believes. I thought of the same thing myself does that mean I stole it from the community I do not pay attention to at all on forums nope
Also OctopusHermit that would also explain away Goten and Trunks because as far as we know they were born without their tails as well meaning no oozaru form
I love it when people somehow manage to make so much sense out of nonsense. That said, sometimes I really wish Dragonball ACTUALLY had this much thought put into it... or does it?
It doesn't. You think Toriyama took biology classes?
Maybe In middle/High school but i'm pretty sure that doesn't count.
Dion Sandy It does. They stated it in the U6 arc.
Also, Toriyama has went down the genetics rabbit hole before to address the fact that Goten and Trunks didn't have tails, he has stated that the in-story reason is that it is a recessive gene. (The practical reason is that he didn't like having to draw and deal with the tails in the later parts where there was a lot more fighting.)
For this reason the idea that he would again use genetics to give an in-story explanation for something that he did out of convenience is not that far fetched.
Roronoa Zoro true
Cell: "hoho Prince, did you feel that?"
Vegeta: "F*CK OFF!"
Kale: Princes Cabba..
Cabba: Please no..
Kale: You lied to me
Cabba: I did no such thing!
Kale: You *dirty* boy~
Cabba: .... CAULIFLA GET ME OFF THIS PLANET RIGHT NOW HURRY U--
TheNewCornyMule i dont get it
Bc Shazei (Its TFS but with Female Broly
Bc Shazei it is time for you to watch DBZ Abridged and Masako voiced as Goku
SaigaTenshi Exactly
SSJs are like keyblades, overtime everyone will have one
Symon Sybico Ha!
unless we find out U7 had a war between countless super saiyans that killed each other, it's nothing like the keyblade.
Huh, never thought of it like that, but it's a damn good comparison
Symon Sybico Lol. Now that's true!
Symon Sybico Who are you speaking about the only time a person got a keyblade randomly was lea
Just like his dad Bardock. He's a brilliant scientist (:
nah Gine was the scientist and Bardock was an average fighter vegeta banged his head three years after planet vegeta's destruction
petiteange2005 They were making reference to either TFS and DBZA or to the bad dub the TFS crew got that joke from... he doesn't actually think that Bardock is a scientist
petiteange2005 dbza and tfs are the same thing
@@murpled91 no tfs made dbza that's like saying toriyama is dragon ball you mug
Here's a theory: The "tingly feeling" as actually their midichlorians.
mattwo7 sir go home your drunk
Goku is the chosen one??????
i wrote this exact thing, then i looked down a little and saw this...
mattwo7 I guess
EliiteThunderGaming, it's a joke.
So long story short.....
Its like Midichlorians in Star Wars. People prefer the mystery of the Force! Just like Super Saiyans, at 1st it was through emotion, now it's still emotion but with an extra explanation.
Pretty much. The mystery just adds to the overall value of the transformation. But as the saying goes, "Magic is just science that is yet to be understood", Toei just gave us information of how it works for Universe 6 saiyans, thus killing a bit of the mystique but that doesn't mean it works the same way for Universe 7 Saiyans.
Not entirely.
The Force was explained as something mystic thats everywere.
But since Future Trunks we know that Super Saiyan is passed on from parent to child.
And Cell also seemed to have a Super Saiyan Aura thanks to his Saiyan Cells.
There is magic in the DB world but the Transformation never seemed like it.
Besides that, up until Majin Buu was far more in the SciFi Corner with the exception of the afterlife the Kais and the Dragon Balls.
Even the other Saiyan Transformation, the Great Ape, was explained in DBZ.
Close, it's like if the midichlorians only happened in a literal alternate universe, and impacted absolutely nothing about the established cannon, but people still complained about it as if they completely ignored that whole first part. As all the complainers did.
So they are whining about something that doesn't even affect our saiyans and is by all means like compairing apples to oranges.
It's also good emotion control to master both as well. Because while Anakin was a good fighter when he was psychotically pissed on Mustafar, he was an even better one when he learned how to use the dark side without it affecting his thinking and rational composure.
People need to realise U6 and U7 Saiyans are basically two different species. U7 Saiyans spent majority of their time eating their own shit and killing others for fun. U6 Saiyans had civilization, well developed planet and possible government(since they have an army). For U7, SSJ is a legend, For U6 it's an obtainable transformation. Not to mention the stronger a Saiyan is the easier it is to tap into that form.
Yup. My theory is that U7 Saiyans transform from rage and U6 from heroic act, like trying to save someone. I think that Cabba didn't transform from rage when he battled Vegeta, but from heroism while trying to save his people. But thats just my theory.
Kemor
-the thing is if they are differents vegeta try to transform cabba wouldn't work.
-goten and trunks have transform yes but they still have way to go to reach sj2 and sj3. They know how to go sj3 but can't do it without fusion. So even if you know how to if your body can't keep up you won't transform.
-the thing masakox say is that the next generation Will have more ease with the transformation but in that universe no one who have transform have a kid yet.
-the transformation tingly thing in the back maybe a tip to make it easier to transform but it cant be the "TRIGGER". Cabba was put under pressure with sarada destruction that was the trigger.
Its not like cabba wasnt strong enough to go super saiyan for a long time, he was chosen for the tournament. And went against Vegeta.
Kiss my ass h m m
They didnt know about the transformation.
But they had the power to do it.
Thats a possible thing
Kemor i understand and dont hate toei animation for that but if frieza becomes a good guy then f@ck this anime
So basically Vegeta f***ed up again by give his enemy the ability to become much stronger than they already were... (like with Cell) :P
Only this time, is just rivalry. or Mentor, I don't know.
But but...MARKETING!
Masakox: SCIENCE, GENETICS, THEORIES, GENIUSNESS!!!
Toriyama: How about an 8 year old super Saiyan just because the deadline is tomorrow?
If social media had been as prominent then as now, the internet would have blown up over Goten and Trunks.
RusticFederalist Yeah, I felt the same amount of disappointment with gotten and Trunk's transformations as I did with Kale and Caulifa's.
The issue, as I view it, isn't that Caulifla and Kale can transform, it's that them doing it feels solely like a means to an end. People wanted female super saiyan, boom, now they're there. But by doing that, it takes away learning something potentially interesting about the two as characters. There is a story and production divide here, and the seams between the two ends are showing. Plus fans of DB have been burned by this kind of thing before, with Goten and Trunks. There impact is significantly lower than there predecessors since Toriyama essentially boosted them to the same level as the other characters to make them more usable in that part of the story. But the result is a lack of impact. Caulifla and Kale (kinda) are a neat idea in theory, but because of the time limit the show puts on the events leading up to the tournament and feeling the need to get them to that same usable point and Goten and Trunks, the results are rushed and honestly bland. Had we had more time with Caulifla and Kale before this, people would be less volatile towards the whole thing. However, had they kept the emotional trauma angle, we could have at least gotten something interesting in these characters backstories to potentially compensate for that and flesh them out more. Maybe they'll do something with these two in the future to make them more than what feels like pandering, but given how other characters in this same series have been treated, it's a very real possibility that this is all of substance we'll get from these characters, and that could factor into the negative response as well. At least that's how I view it.
Yeah I hear ya. If they were gonna intro anew female saiyan why not at least give her her own arc first so you had the time to flesh her out before the tournament of power arc started?
I don't get it. Why are ppl bitching about a comment I made about a show they don't even watch?
AussieDragoon finally someone using their head! couldnt agree more mate. all this talk of genetics is purely assumption BS and no one realises akira hasnt given any proper justification as to how these three saiyans are so strong even within their universe. so all in all, its just another ass pull powerup, purely for the sake of having characters that can face up to goku and vegeta.
they put 0 to little effort in the story... its kinda sad. if it werent for the fight scenes super would suck major donkey balls
Pedro Cardoso bro just calm your ass down. no lie you and dragon are correct but we have not seen enough to justify if they deserve it or not. Who to say beside toryama that it is a ass pull or they have a really tragic backstory to go with it but since this ark has no room for backstory but we can't decide and say what we want as confirmation
Wonderfully put, AussieDragon. It's a medium divide, even; Super Saiyan first came to us with characters built up over dozens to hundreds of manga chapters. Cali and Kale have to be introduced in a cour!
Though Masako's going back to actual biology is a welcome twist! Nice to have a geneticist in the house that day?
The physical explanation doesn't really bother me, I see it as the mystical rubber meeting the biology road. Prior to this point we could only describe Super Saiyan as an abstract state of being- now at least we know the sensation of it.
To avoid confusion with the Universe 6 Saiyan planet's name, just call it Planet Salad!
I think Toriyama has it so that any child born from a Saiyan ancestor will be part Saiyan. Perhaps those dominant and recessive genes are more related to the ability or inability to more easily access Super Saiyan transformations as opposed to simply being a Saiyan only or Earthling only..
Who prefers golden tails on Super Saiyans with tails?
Jaicomics games yes
Everything needs to be golden! Hair, eyebrows, tails, underarm hair, pubic, ass hair! Everything!
On a side note, combining this a bit with the genetics talk and the fact they're from another universe, in hindsight it kind of makes me wish the Saiyans of Universe 6 had evolved a bit differently - the males more ape-like but with no tails (in a way looking like tailless SSJ 4 Saiyans from GT), while the females looked like they do now but having tails, however their tails possess none of the known weaknesses nor the Oozaru stuff, meaning they got all the perks of the tail with none of the defects.
Jaicomics games
i thought i was the only one
Jaicomics games dbx2 yes
Masiko is an average worrier but a brilliant scientist!
Long Forgotten *Warrior
i dunno man he looks like he could take someones head off with a punch
JfcINC 85 no he is a worrier, all he does is just worry all the damn time
HE IS A LOCAL ASS WORRIER
Masako = Bardock Obama?
Great breakdown. Super basically spoonfed us the info imo. Different universe, evolved differently, and went through different events. So of course there would be subtle differences. Once again, dope video. Love the throwback pic to Goku in the 21st tournament when his tail regrew.
..Vegeta may have just opened a whole new gate of evolution for the Saiyan Race in universe 6 by teaching it to cabba (Who in turn taught it to Caulifla.)
I'm willing to bet in time, generation after generation, if Cabba, Kale, and Caulifla return to their own universe and teach it to their kin, Super Saiyan as a WHOLE would probably become to saiyans of universe 6 what the Sharingan is to the Uchiha of naruto/naruto shippuden: A societal norm, yet still quite the rite of passage, the completion of it.. something to be proud of.
And who says it'll stop there? considering how caulifla managed to obtain super saiyan 2 with a similiar ease, Super Saiyan 2 could quickly replace super saiyan 1 as commonplace, then (If the saiyans have a way to compensate for the RIDICULOUS power drain) super saiyan 3, ..heck, with the legendary super saiyan's arrival, we might even see a canon super saiyan 4.. anything is possible at this point.
...And don't get me started on if Vados started teaching them like Whis did with Goku and Vegeta.
The ENTIRE SAIYAN RACE, of universe 6, LITERALLY EVOLVING their way into Godhood.
..This all happening over the course of a few centuries, millienia, you know, stuff like that.
Vegeta did good.
..now something off-topic.
Vegeta should consider reviving his entire species using the dragon balls... super dragon balls OR namekian OR earth, just SOME kind of dragon ball, wouldn't you say, Masako?
Welp, guess we now have a canon reason for why there are so many Super Sayians, both devine and otherwise in Xenoverse 2.
So, when Krillin died.. Goku wasn't really angry, he was just extremely focused on the itch on his back.
On the barbarian note, wasn't Caulifla basically one? She was introduced as a loudmouth, eating meat surrounded by a gang. That seemed.. extremely tribal/basic. Not some huge evolutionary difference. So why is she the chosen one?
Look, I am fine with new Super Saiyans. I am happy to see female SSJ. The problem with this is there's no backstory, no depth to these characters right now. People are left to assume and they're filling in the blanks with anything they can. That is the problem - when there's no solution, you can freely fill it in yourself and it makes sense to you. However, from a storytelling prospective.. Super fell on its face to get these new Saiyans out. The entire arc is like that, honestly. No universe gets more than a few minutes and that's not enough time to really define any of them.
Shinjiji She is actually rather calm but gets irritated easily, Cabba transformed out of anger but once he got used to the form he simply focused his energy to a part of his body where he felt energy flowing the most and he taught that to Caulifla who tried to teach it to Kale but it didn't work and she transformed out of sadness. This means that the transformation into Super Saiyan is different from person to person and it's based on the individuals state of mind or in Caulifla's case, her massive potential.
I want to say I'm not attacking your prospective or anything before I start. However from mine, you're left to assume that. Throwing around 'potential' and other vague reasons isn't going to cut it imo. We've been with Saiyans for years and understand the majority of them from U7. Now having U6 thrown in with nothing but slapped on vague words is just lazy writing. However, I will say you could be 100% right - the end explanation could be some latent potential of U6.. but the anime does NOTHING to convey that well. The writing is getting extremely lazy.
I agree but the bad writing always leave the intended audience to speculate. Hopefully the manga fixes the mistakes the anime has made. This is solely why the manga should be ahead due to Toei being left to fill in the gaps with notes from Akira and Torotaro
I'm in full agreement there. I look forward to what the manga does. It's really handling the blue transformation well thus far, when compared to the anime. Well, in my opinion. So hopefully U6 gets some attention. I'd love to see them train into those forms or explain what's going on with those Saiyans. I'm really curious if there is actually a story there or if it'll be glossed over. Lol
I understand and agree with the lack of a backstory. Honestly if the tournament started say, a month after the zen-exhibition match then these universes could be fully fledged out and more epic transformations could take place.
With Caulifla she was said to have a lot of potential by her brother who worked with Cabba. That is a small justification but with the time they gave us it's the best we'll get
Alleles? Eye color? punnett square? No. NO! I already passed biology class. You cant make me go back! No matter how much you try and disguise it as a, "A Dragon Ball Discussion". No!
Dragon Ball would have made biology class so much more interesting.
0:52 that was literally my reaction when Caulifla went SSJ2.
spaceghostshady she didn't go ssj2
dean boosack she clearly did
dean boosack she did when kale shot at cabba and she blocked it. you can see her transform then block it
To be honest, the whole emotional trauma and stress stuff is WAY overhyped. So far this only happened to Goku and Future Trunks (and maybe vegeta with a lot of leeway in terms of defining stress)
Vegeta was so pissed he turned into a supersaiyan out of spite.
Gohan was like... Told to get way, way mad.
Kid Trunks and Goten just randomly went super saiyan by like... Throwing a fit?
Seriously, I always hated Goten and Trunks because of this. And nobody understood my unyielding rage about these kids.
And now, after YEARS we finally get female supersaiyans and everyone loses their shit, because they didn't throw a hissy fit before transforming?
well idk if thats true its just that the whole girl super saiyan is finalling happening now so its hyped more, but there wasnt a lot of internet 15 years ago when that first happened
I think everyone will forget about it after the tournament, just like super saiyan rose. Everyone was trippin' when they first heard about it and later on they all liked it :) Very interesting video btw.
I hope TFS do a spin off clip of the Universal Survival Arc, if Kale goes LSS during the fight and Vegeta says off camera "OH MY GOD SHE'S SO COOL" XD
blackbox64 or have cabbe say it
it'd make more sense if Caulifla said it considering her reaction after Kale transformed tbh.
BrawlerAce ye she says it and then vegeta screams off-screen: THAT'S MY LINE!
*Vegeta:* OH MY GOD SHE IS SO COOL!!! I bet you did something horrid if she's after your blood, boy.
*Cabba:* Not really. I think she's jealous Caulifla giving me attention for helping her? Or angry cause I insulted her.
*Vegeta:* You mean like some typical high school love triangle?..... but.... For fucks sake!... A.... But...
That's so dumb!..... BUT SHE'S SO COOL!..... *BUT THAT'S SO DUMB!!!*
Kale: OH CABBA!
Cabba: Please no...
Kale: YOU INSULTED ME!
Cabba: I'm so sorry!
Kale: YOU DIRTY BOY!
Cabba: Vegeta-san, please transform into Super Saiyan Blue! I'm serious-
Kale: RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Cabba: AAAAAAAAAAAACK!
And at the moment, Cabba realized... he fucked up.
The Universe 6 Saiyans being so strong so fast is understandable. Goku and Vegeta have God Ki and Super Saiyan Blue, Gohan has his full potential unlocked, and Universe 6 just discovered Super Saiyans, so how else would they pose a challenge unless they could evolve so quickly.
D. Kumar Mahajan Yes, finally. Enough with the BS genetic or evolutionary explanations. This is just Toei rushing things along.
Skyrogue19 the best way they could have done it was with a timeskip. the thing that is really aggravating the fan base isn't that they can go super saiyan. it's how fast and easily they are getting it the first time. vegeta trained like hell to achieve it and it took him a long time. Also caulifla getting ssj2 within like one hour of achieving ssj1 and not even knowing it existed was pretty ridiculous.
Facts are presented people still are babies about it.
Because they wanted Vegeta to have a pupil like Piccolo and and Goku did. It was a very good moment and good character development for Vegeta.
Vegeta! F*** YEH!
This actually did help. I was a bit peeved at how easy it was for them even though i knew they were alternated versions of the race.
One major point though, is that evolution is only to better suit their environment,and not to make the organism actually stronger(unless the environment is harsh, which would encourage the evolution of strength). This would suggest that Universe 7 saiyans should have evolved to be stronger due to constant fighting and being less peaceful, unless the beings of Universe 6 are stronger on average than mortals of Universe 7.
But let's say, for shits and giggles, the average mortal of Universe 6 is stronger than the average mortal of Universe 7, meaning the evolution of of Universe 6 saiyans would favor making them to be stronger. so why have Universe 6 saiyans never even heard of the form? They never NEEDED to be stronger, which follows the original lore of a NEED to transform. This suggests Universe 6 saiyans have never had the need to exceed their base forms, considering how high they are, meaning their evolution wouldn't improve them near as much as their Universe 7 counterparts who were relatively weak in base and would NEED the strength. Universe 6 saiyans losing their tails isn't a definite sign of increased strength, but in fact the opposite. They didn't need to get stronger. If anything, in my opinion, it really would seem Universe 6 saiyans should have a MUCH more difficult time transforming considering they haven't needed it anywhere near the extent of the much weaker subservient Universe 7 saiyans.
I don't think we should apply too much science to this beyond "they evolved to not have tails"
Exactly what I've been saying. It all has to do with different circumstances with how both universes were brought up. Universe 6 Saiyans were privileged to be properly brought up and got to evolve. Back in the DBZ Saiyan saga, tails were shown to be becoming obsolete as well. Universe 7 Saiyans just died out way before that started becoming a factor.
Another thing of note is... _Vegeta_ being the one to put Cabba's life in danger just goes to show how low the stakes are for U6 Saiyans.
When you inhabit a rather peaceful planet, joining lines of war duty where you have *Frost and the rest of Frieza's race* backing you up and, in fact, doing most of the work, you know for sure that none of the U6 Saiyans are being pushed nearly hard enough to be anywhere near the levels they're reaching now. It just simply doesn't add up.
Caulifla outright stating to Cabba initially she literally has no desire for transformation should tell everyone right there how their work ethic is in regards to training.
It seems like Universe 6 saiyans are pretty dominant in their universe, so why would they need to get stronger? Losing the tail makes it seem like their base was so relatively high that they didn't even need the X10 multiplier of of the great ape form.
Broly Sucks Wang So you're saying Goten and Kid Trunks really needed to go Super Saiyan? To do what, fight in a tournament, one in which they would have ended up the finalists just fighting in base form anyways? Or maybe cause Gohan and their dads looked really cool, so decided they wanted to be cool as well?
@Broly Sucks Wang
Yes. It's good to see someone using their brains.
Also, Masako and his M.S. in Genetics friend are forgetting one crucial thing (if you're using real world genetics for a fictional universe). SAIYANS. ARE. ALIENS.
It wouldn't matter that they used to be humans eons ago - the amount of genetic drift and genetic shift (with the acquisition of mutations and traits) would create TOO MANY DIFFERENCES from the original genome, epigenome, and proteome that was present in their ancestral forms.
To put it another way for these dullards...Chimpanzees share 96 -98% (depending on the species and genetic material observed) of their genomes with humans. And yet, chimps and humans cannot interbreed. The divergence of the genealogy was too ancient for anything resembling a common ancestor.
The interbreeding between Saiyans and humans can only be explained as "Don't know. It must be some unknown Alien copy, complement, and synthesize mechanism to breed with humans." Toriyama probably never even put this much thought into it.
As for the Universe 6 Saiyans being this powerful (especially if they have evolved without much stress and risk)...the only thing I can think of is that they must have interbred with some other humanoid alien species that coinhabited Planet Sadala at some point in their ancient past (much like humans have some Neanderthal genes), and thus, resulting in their much, much higher power reserves. If you look carefully, the appearance of Universe 6 Saiyans is different than Universe 7 Saiyans.
Despite that great need for power, however, none of the Universe 7 Saiyans actually achieved the Super Saiyan form since the Legendary Super Saiyan (that we know of) until Goku fought Frieza on Namek. As such, the need for additional power can't be the main factor that contributed to Goku and the gang being genetically able to transform, as opposed to the Universe 6 counterparts. The Universe Six Saiyans HD the same exact grasp of the Super Saiyans transformation as King Vegeta and his Universe 7 brethren did - none at all.
here's a theory, the Legendary Saiyan in universe 7 achieved super saiyan but died because he couldn't control it's power, maybe in Universe 6 the Legendary saiyan did not die and therefore passed the super saiyan gene on eventually the super saiyan gene would of spread through the population over time, this could be why it's so easer for the saiyans in Universe six to achieve the form.
Mergan Naidoo however we dont know if U6 even had a legendary super saiyan
But they had a Legendary Super Saiyan, Broky!!!! As much as you want to say it's not canon Toei have made a huge ass mess with this whole thing by making Kale just a blatant rip off of Broly.
KasaiWolf07 bro.. just stop. go do your research about "the origins of the original legendary super saiyan
Mergan Naidoo I also always believed brolys power was passed down to him too, like yusuke or gene grey from x men and it would make sense because of how powerful broly was with a power level of 10,000 the day he was born and that was just his resting power and he would have gotten a rage boost when freiza blew up planet Vegeta and I've heard along time ago that broly was born a ss, which isn't crazy for DBZ but kinda makes sense when you look at how much more powerful broly was compared to gohans power level of only 1300 when he attacked raditz
MrKevin9856 1. Your comment has no relevance to what has been said.
2. broly was not born a super saiyan. And vegeta did not hear this either
Trunks wouldn't have the "super saiyan genetics" due to bulma getting pregnant before vegeta left to try and become a super saiyan
the intro was spot-on. Thank you.
Mitochondria are the powerhouse of the cell.
They are *perfect* for the job
@@surelock3221 that was clever.
I always figured that's how Goten and Trunks learned at a young age. But future trunks is different he transformed at a older age while getting trained by an even older Gohan in that future time line. Gohan had to die for Trunks to really unlock it. So it's kind of contradictory... I wish akiratoriyama would explain things!
Simple, future trunks didn't start training until he was 13, and Gohan wasn't as experienced so he wasn't as good a mentor as vegeta.
The rest is explained in the seeies
Future trunks and trunks arent the same trunks. Maybe future Trunks changing the timeline somehow made it so that Vegeta achieved ssj before he conceived Trunks, but in future Trunks timeline Vegita achieved it after.
im sorry but he doesn't know
Watch "History of Trunks" again and tell me Trunks was not really close to achieving the transformation while Gohan was alive.
In manga Future Trunks had ssj form before Gohan died,,,movie changed it to make it more dramatic,,,the kids had ssj genes engraved in them thus they were born without tail and going ssj was natural for them, but not ssj2 like this db super shit and tingling is just a lame excuse.
so when Goten and Trunks turns super saiyan w/o emotion is just fine, but Caulifa and Kale turns super saiyan are now insulting? okay then...
It's because Goten and Trunks had so much fighting experience and long lives to train... Oh wait... Goten couldn't even fly.
Or fighting experience, or training, or ki control. But hey, ppl didn't bitch and moan as much
If you think about it people who say that are sexist
+Super Vegeta That really pisses me off when guys like you play the sexist card.So just because they have a different opinion then yours is sexist, Really?
I agree pulling the sexist card is dumb. I haven't heard a single person say it's stupid that WOMEN can do it that easily. They're upset that it was easy, period. God damn it dude, now you made me defend the people I'm bashing...
Given that Pan was conceived after Gohan had his potential unlocked by the elder Kai, and Bulla after Vegeta became a SSB, (potentially speaking) there's a chance they're stronger than their grandpa and regular pa respectively... maybe they'll accidentally destroy the Earth fighting over a toy or something???
Also, the more super saiyans the merrier; hopefully Chichi, Videl, Bulma and Krillin can turn super saiyan too after being exposed to saiyan nut
DNA change after nutting inside?
Zino A Probably? My uncle works at Toei, I bet he knows the truth
Am... am I the only person noticing Krillin listed as being exposed to super Saiyan nut?
Silverfishv9 You're saying it as if it were something weird. I mean, they're best friends... that's what best friends do
friendship is two pals railing each other in the ass, in a totally manly way.
Wait, so in DragonBall Online some of them are Pure Saiyans?
Goten and Trunks was in the woods one day and felt a tingle feeling in their back then transformed
時間の神GamerKidd 999 no not that way
Pretty much.
Brain! Just... stop!
hot
CABBAROT!!!
rakmal 786 Ok but what do You call kale ? kaleoly?
Alexandru Radu
Kroly.
Brale
I really like kale and caulifla
Remove the D from DBS and you get the real reason why.
anyone get mad? I mean really mad, out of control "I am gonna kill someone" mad? do you remember how physically exhausting it was? how all that emotion poured into your muscles, the strongest of which are surrounding your spine since that is what holds you up?
yeah, same deal only human beings don't get super powers out of that sensation.
I never thought what I learned in biology would be useful.
When and where did you learn about Saiyan biology?
Pete Ro he's not referring to that. He's talking about basic anatomy. Bones brains etc.
Poptart Burrito Right?
You know, I used some of the same data about genetics 15 years ago, when a magazine that focused on DBZ explained why Pan was incapable of going Super Saiyan; about how Gohan was born before Goku forced the genetic change to go Super Saiyan, thus had to go through the same emotional trauma that Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks had to, but how Goten and Kid Trunks showed that the Super Saiyan transformation was an inherited trait. I also explained how, since Goku Jr, Pan's grandson, was able to go Super Saiyan without trouble showed that even though Pan never activated the transformation, she was capable of doing so.
So Kudos, Masako, for bringing back that line of thinking in a new form. Good to see some support for something that I've been saying for years.
Saiyan genes are dominant, unless the other half of the couple is named Bulma.
Then her genes aggressively create female clones of herself or weird male hybrids.
Xaviikinz I think hair and eye color is recessive in saiyans..Chichi has black hair and eyes which is why both Gohan and Goten have them..and Pan gets her black eyes from chichi as well..its evident with vegetas kids that their hair and eye color are recessive since black would usually be dominate over blue.
vianjelos Or Black hair is just recessive in general.
If we go along with your theory, wouldn't it be a total piece of cake for Bulma to do some gene manipulation to ensure a child is born a Saiyan? I don't think we have to be afraid the Saiyan species is going to die out anytime soon.
Potentially, yeah. If the Saiyan gene were just one component of humanoid DNA, then she could isolate it and ensure the Saiyan race never goes properly extinct.
As a biologist, I can tell you that it is possible but not something I see Dragon Ball characters do at all as it involves surgical processes and other "self-activities" if you know what I mean plus a bunch of ethical dilemmas. That's our science though of course, if you use anime science... maybe? idk. The show will never dive in to science that much to explain its lore.
If Bulma keeps him feed, he probably wouldn't even notice. He only found about about Time Travel because they told him about it.
But wasn't Trunks conceived prior to Vegeta becoming SSJ?
Sean The result stays the same
I'd argue that we actually can't say. Because Vegeta might actually have already been a SSJ biologically, as he went into space to train right after Trunks was conceived and it was there that he finally let go and transformed. With Vegeta it wasn't that he wasn't angry enough or hadn't transformed, it seemed more like he was getting over his own mental blocks that stopped him from transforming. With him, it was only when his outlook changed.
We don't know WHEN Vegeta actually first turned Super Saiyan. We only know when he REVEALED it to the others. Everyone was busy training for the Androids, so no one had seen Vegeta in three years except Bulma, obviously.
yes and despite trunks learning ss first goten learned it at a younger age
Carl Rood no there is a scene while vegeta is in space after trunks was conceived; it showed vegeta on a dying planet struggling to protect his ship because without it, he would die as well. He was also really badly injured. The physical stress, the struggle to survive, and his pride issue because goku unlocked super saiyan caused him to transform as well, giving him the power he needed to save his ship and get of the planet.
Doesn't this mean that bulla will have an easier time transforming into SSJ, SSJ2, SSJG (Red), and SSJGSS (Blue)? You know since Vegeta could do all those things by the time she was conceived.
Vegeta said it best "The legendary transformation of the saijen race now a childs play thing"
The internet wasn't a thing when Goten and Trunks went ssj. That's why you don't remember any outrage because you and your 3 friends didn't bring it up during lunch period
Pretty sure the Internet existed when those episodes aired in North America/UK.
Bullcrap. We were watching shit clips of DBZ online by that time. I remember ordering the VHS tapes of Future Trunks vs Freeza because it hadn't come out in English yet. The internet wasn't the same, but it very much existed and people were writing blogs and stuff about DBZ and people were commenting.
TrinityAssassinZ But there were no people who were complaining about this, did they?
+Fart Face Some, but not as many by far. But then they paid lip service to it when Vegeta punished Trunks with "If you want to play like that..."
LupineShadowOmega Ah, that makes sense.
What I don't get is if their so evolved and advanced then how have they not discovered super saiyan before? If its so easy than what is the deal?
well its not out of the question that a super saiyan could have existed and the race being less power hungry than U7 didn't feel the need to pass that on, but its more likely that the set of circumstances to make someone go super saiyan without knowing the feeling just never presented itself to them.
Well remember, they didn't know about the tingly, until Cabba learned what Super Sayain felt like.
yeah good point that sounds about right
Based on this video, I think its because the war on planet Sadal didn't happen in U6, which is why they don't have an SS legend but still has the potential. If U6 Saiyans aren't warlike then they didn't ever push themselves toward that level of power but they had the potential all along. Maybe the U6 Saiyans are as strong as Goku was on Namek but remained in base form this whole time. There was no Freeza to push them toward needing that power as Frost was hiding his actual motives. Frost is also smarter so maybe they were sent on more calculated and organized missions, where as Freeza was greedy, arrogant and impulsive which sent the U7 Saiyans on suicide missions regularly therefore they needed more power to stay alive and please Freeza.
The same reason C-sections and cataract removal surgery were common in Africa whilst Europe didn't even know about them.
I think the best part of this story is that Toriyama didn't think much or at all about genetics!
wonderful video as always :)
This is all I got for an idea on how the saiyans between the two universes work.
Vegeta: Cabba what the hell are the saiyans of Universe 6 like?
Cabba: Well Vegeta, we are smarter than the average saiyan.
I may not be a degree in biology, but I think I can clear a couple things up.What you describe as epigenetics is actually mutation, random changes in the dna that will cause random effects. Anything from cancer to higher iq. Epigenetics is better shown in this experiment: If you train mice to dislike a smell, they can pass that dislike on to their offspring (via activated genes). This perfectly explains the half saiyans in dbz.
Universe 6 saiyans would have 0 help from epigenetics, since no saiyans had their parents go super saiyan. The theory that since they have more generations they should have more developed super saiyan genes is also wrong, since (as far as we know) there isnt a way to select for it, and thus the only thing affecting it would be mutations, which are equally likely to breed it out of them.
However, I do have another theory along the same line, regarding saiyan tails.
Saiyan tails, while evolving to give access to the ozaru form, also had the job of inhibiting excess power (else they couldn't stop growing, and would... Well, pop). This hugely crippled the raw power of saiyans in universe 6, since the generations of saiyans selecting mates for power ALSO were selecting for its inhibitor, due to their pride for the legendary super saiyan who became a golden ozaru (the inhibitor didnt work do to a genetic mutation, so when he transformed into an ozaru he also went super saiyan, and continued growing until he died of his own power). This explains why vegeta was as weak as he was during the saiyan saga, considering the countless zenkai boosts he must have got in his life under frieza, and he only started really climbing in power when he had his tail removed.
Universe 6 had a different story. After they became the sole scientific beings on their planet (since they didnt migrate homeworlds), the ozaru form became an active detriment to societal progress. That means the tails gotta go (remember, universe 6 saiyans evolved them away). Evolution deals with things in a funny way though, it just does things "enough", humans for example still have a tail bone. Its possible that when they evolved away the tail, they kept a weaker form of the suppressor, and than moved it up the back because its sensitivity (would suck to sit on that, or compress it with your fightin muscles). Now all they have to do to go super saiyan is turn off that inhibitor, which would seem like gathering ki in a strangely sensitive place in the back.
That also explains why universe 6 saiyans are so much stronger, remember that nappa was an elite, and king vegeta's power level was hovering around 10k, while 6's is one of the strongest species in the multiverse.
(edited for format)
I agree with the selection hypothesis. While the vestigial tail and power inhibition hypothesis sounds plausible, the Ozaru form and Super Saiyan transformations aren't necessarily linked via genetics. The Ozaru form, if anything, has become recessive and lies dormant in the Universe 6 saiyans today.
The implausibility remains, such that Saiyans who have never before "transformed" into Super Saiyans do not have the epigenetic selections necessary to trigger the change. Now, I'm not saying the change should be difficult. These Universe 6 Saiyans may indeed be able to become stronger with less effort. However, the point remains that these Saiyans (who, for the most part, do not have any formal martial arts experience or spiritual training/attunement) can effortlessly tap into power they never trained to have, or gathered over time.
What we have here is lead being turned into gold. (Pun slightly intended)
Or, in other words, getting something from nothing. And for one reason or another, it's making sense when it shouldn't.
Great Episode Masako, it feels like I learned something today
Super well put together video Masako. I really enjoyed the genetics review and the application of it to a popular fandom. Grade A content my guy.
Biology Student who really likes Lamarcks theory approves! Really good video.
Love the transition to Scientist Masako
It's not chance, the Saiyan zygotes (sperm/eggs) beat the shit out of all other zygotes leaving only Saiyan zygotes ;P
I just feel like Super Saiyan is a form that should be treated with respect in the DB universe. Super Saiyan was such a game changer back in the day that's still being used as a template for any character that reaches a new form or power level. Seeing characters like Trucks, Goten, the Universe 6 Saiyans, and any future character just sneezing into the Super form is just infuriating.
Even 5 years later if I can’t remember how genetics works I still refer to this video.
saiya-gene , nuff said
Something I didn't think I'd learn because of Dragon Ball- Genetics.
This isn't entirely accurate on how hereditary traits work. Embryos go through a series of gene swaps from father to mother and vice versa. This would mean that genetically pan could be half saiyan at most, but could be 25% or anywhere else between 0 and 50. The point should also be made that saiyan genes could be wholly different and not necessarily work as pairs in all cases. There are plenty of humans walking around with triplicate dna. Many cause really bad side effect, but some are just fine. If saiyans had triplicate stable dna, gohan could be 66% saiyan meaning 2/3 of his children with videl could also inherit saiyan traits. That last portion is very speculative, but still possible. If you had 2 races existing on a planet that could intermingle, the chances of the pure version of either dieing out through interbreeding is very slim, but if one had a distinct advantage, it makes it more likely for that race to eventually beat out the other. It's a similar situation to homosapian vs neanderthal. All humans alive now are some part neanderthal, but neanderthal genes are slowly getting diluted out of the gene pool with some people being 1% or less. This is because neanderthals had a notoriously harder time surviving, but still interbred with homosapiens. This could explain how saiyans are viewed as the dominant race on the planet still. This would also bode well for saiyan offspring on earth as a dominant mutation that benifits the offspring is much more likely to be passed on than one that is detrimental. This means gohan may have kids who don't become saiyans, but due to this, they may not reproduce. It would still take millennia for saiyans to become a prevalent part of earth society, but it would make it almost inevitable so long as a foothold became established. If gohan, trunks, goten, bra, and pan all have a LOT of kids, the chances of the saiyan race dominating earth would almost be guaranteed.
Randall Edwards This was exactly what I was going to say. There was also a problem with what he said about hybrids not being able to have viable offspring, which was disproven in the last 10-15 years with Ligers producing Liligers. Just like with homosapians and neanderthals being two different species of humans. So Gohan is still a hybrid, even though he has a viable kid.
I like your idea! It could be even worse though (for humanity), the extra set of Saiyan genes could actually act as some sort of parasite, making sure it is passed on to EVERY offspring, not a 2/3 percentage. Then you would have 'pure' Saiyan offspring 100%. There is no telling how this DNA acts and it wouldn't need to follow any rules that our DNA is bound to, since it shouldn't even be possible to have offspring between 2 beings from different planets.
Piccolo: NERDDDD
You actually made this educationally fun. Thanks Masako!
I didn't have a problem with them going super saiyan. I had a problem with caulifla going super saiyan 2 she did it like an hour after figuring out how to go super saiyan.
Oh so you don't have a problem with the characters becoming stronger just because the plot demands it and to look cool... ok then.
Vegeta went SSB without going SSG first. so i don't really see the problem.
mahoromatic02 It's all up to personal preference in the end but I sort of feel caulifla's premature ssj2 transformation retracts from the struggle that characters went through to obtain it. Also the god froms are sort of different in the way they work. They aren't obtained in a traditional manner a fail to follow the linear progression of previous tranformations.
extrememark13 to be honest it's definitely an issue with dragon ball. I've come to terms with characters stumbling into normal super saiyan, although I still think it's ridiculous. Ssj2 caulifla came without any warning and it wasn't even addressed at all in the episode.
Seathify I see what you mean man. i guess im just one of those people who just gets what the writers are trying to do and is ok with it. by that i mean they are trying to differentiate the U6 Saiyans, from the U7.
As someone with a Masters in genetics as well, I found this discussion to be really interesting. The difference in environment would certainly alter the expression of genes between the Saiyans of Universe 6 and 7. Btw, here's a fun little conundrum: Every offspring is the same species as their parent. By that logic, evolution shouldn't be possible. Think on that one for a while. ;)
You actually completely changed my mind how I feel about the Universe 6 Saiyans. And this could mean they've had super saiyans for quite a while, so there could be some good stories to tell.
I precisely got that theory, but forgot the technical term. Awesome video!
Naturally it's a Super Saiyan bargain sale
enter the code "bullshit" to redeem super saiyan 1,2 and 3. if you're lucky you might even get LSSJ
What if a u7 saiyan had a child with a u6 saiyan
LIKE SO MASAKOX CAN SEE THIS
Midget Gaming super potential
Thanks Masako for doing half my biology revision for me. I have a test next week and I've been too lazy to study anyway.
Can we get an update vid on this with the Dragon Ball Online “humans” and Beat & Note from Dragon Ball Heroes since they’re Saiyan descendants from like 500+ years in the future
nice video MasakoX Sir...
Ss=super saiyan it all makes sense now
Mat&Tom it is in japan
But once again i must admit the way you thoroughly described it makes a very pleasing believable notion to acccept, nicely done there man
This is why I like u Masako, u are just like me in terms of intelligence, rational, & open-mindness/wisdom. U look to find logical reasoning&thought in every discussion nor do u shoot anything down (unless need be), and u are always open for dialogue. I wish to do a video/discussion with u someday. Big ups on your channel success. God bless!
Wait were people actually angry about the two female saiyans going super saiyan? It's an alternate universe, they could have a foot for a tongue and hitting a ball with there finger could turn them super lmao
Wheyrlen Dragonfist Perhaps if this were a multivariate, which holds infinite possibilities, but these are just neighboring finite universes.
Wheyrlen Dragonfist and that would be lousy writing.
i swear you guys are missing the point. The problem is NOT that it Doesn't make sense! Any idiot can make up half-ass biological speculations ... What the problem is, is that IT'S SHIT Writing!
having the SSJ form not represent character development, or relate to a story's conflicts is fuckin boring! Nothing will fix that!
KittyMiloJustice Thing is these aren't meant to be identical universes, they are clearly said to be "nearly identical" with clear differences such as Earth having been devastated of all life due to a war and the Saiyans remaining on Sadla & long since lost their tails in U6. This clearly shows the U6 Saiyans evolved differently which means there are differences in their biology and that their capabilities aren't necessarily analogous to that of the U7 Saiyans, and this is an important consideration to have in mind when judging them.
Maybe Cabba first achieved SSJ not through rage but from heroic act. Think about it, if Universe 6 and 7 are opposites, maybe their transformations works like a mirror image. One draws power from rage, other from heroism (trying to save someone).
Although I personally don't like U6 method of transformation, it makes some sense.
Universe 7 = Rage
Univesre 6 = Heroism
idk man
id rather have something not make sense but be cool than something shit that can make sense.
Closest theory that actually makes sense
It doesn't have to be something "cool" just not asinine lol
You know I used to write one of my stories alongside another group and everybody had their own character but it was primarily all MY setting/lore, so every time this other guy wanted to make some transformation to make his character stronger than everybody else because that's just who HE was , I asked him some questions about how the transformation was achieved and he could never come up with anything that didn't sound ridiculous. I hope that isn't what's going on here.
NO YOU IDIOT IF YOU ACTUALLY WATCHED SUPER YOUD KNOW CABBA ACHEIVED SUPER SAYIN THROUGH RAGE AND CAULIFLA AND KALE BOTH ACHEIVED IT THROUGH DIFFERENT METHODS NON OF WHICH WERE HEROISM
I honestly think that this might have something to with that Cabba is the first one to actually take time to think about the transformation. Sure, Goku had a year on Yardrat where he learned to control the transformation better, but he's a natural fighter, he doesn't so much think about fighting as much as he just does it; plus he was probably moreso enamored with perfecting his new Instant Transmission. Cabba was not immediately bombarded with a crisis, so he gave himself time to figure it out.
sit down class? your whole channel is a class
Ppl are too obsessed with their childhoods. It is nothing special lol
Shinji D, I'll say, if you say stuff like x show was my childhood, y game is my childhood or stuff like that, chances are that your childhood was indeed crap.
People above all else should be the best part of your life.
Saying "x was my childhood" isn't a literal statement. No, most people who use the phrase didn't have childhoods that revolved around that thing; they're just saying that it was a big part of it. It's not that deep.
Assuming someone's childhood was crap because they have something they can be nolstalgic about is one of the silliest things I've heard.
They could at least phrase it differently. Like "Oh my God, I love this show!"
But I literally hated people in my childhood
@Masakox what if gohan had become a super sayian as a child before goku?
That's not a bad idea! It could be when he bursts out of Raditz pod in the saiyan saga.
Lol if Gohan turned into a super saiyan out of the pod Raditz would lose his shit. Even more so than he did originally xD I'd prefer if he went super saiyan when Piccolo died. "Oh yeah you were there. Why didn't you go Super Saiyan?"
he was already a child tho
sorry i meant during the sayian saga like when piccolo died or even further back like when raditz tried kidnapping him
Jesse Thomas he would need to have had been physically adept like every other saiyan. Gohan was an un-trained little boy
So basically Pan, and even Goku Jr are just as Saiyan as Gohan. That's actually really cool. Thank you science.
this guy is a bloody beast. love your videos man!! By far the best Dragon Ball RUclipsr
Universe 6 Super Saiyans have blue eyes intead of green.
J I thought i was the only one who notice that.
J they just changed it in super all super saiyans have blue eyes check goku ssj 3 vs beerus his eyes are blue
Gumballthechewy dbz it was green
exl299 It's more of a turquoise than straight up green, in fact I grew up thinking they were blue and had a heated debate over this in the comment section of another vid years ago but we agreed in the end that they were neither green nor blue, but a mix. Besides, it wasn't like a constant thing, sometimes from episode to episode it changes... cause inconsistency
I have a question involving these genetics. Genetically, shouldn't Trunks and Future Trunks be the same person? The timeline split that makes them different happened after birth, so they shouldn't have any different genetics. Yet for Future Trunks, achieving Super Saiyan was a struggle and he had to achieve it through trauma. Present/Kid Trunks however achieved the form much more easily than his future counterpart.
How could this be if it relies on genetics?
maybe due to trunks came to the past before he was born it changed enough of the timeline. for example with his appearance in the freeza fight he could've saved vegetas nuts. so that trunks might just be a lookalike of our trunks. but that's just my opinion
Maybe Future Trunks comes from another sperm with slightly different trades.
Or it's just Akira Toriyama's usual "Ups, I forgot that".
or maybe there is a mental component to the transformation. Little Trunks has a different personality then future trunks because his father ( with whom he trains by the way) is still around. so for example more confidence, quicker ascension to ssj. Califla is also overflowing with confidence. Just a theory
losleichos that could be the case right there because that makes too much sense
All of these theories are bullshit and I will tell you why. In DBZ we had a common motif and that was that the characters were becoming stronger just because the plot demanded it, which caused an insane powercreep.
This concept is way more obvious in super.
The real reason they became SSJ was because the plot demanded it, nothing more nothing less. These theories are just fans that struggle to defend and rationalise a very badly written series.
I am speaking as a person who reads lot of literature and has read all of Toriyama's interviews and many of his responds to fans.
I came here for Dragonball, but I left with an A+ in biology
Man this discussion are great, awesome but I love how people put so many thought to the series I LOVE IT
But Masako are these genes Wrangler or Levi?
Not to mention how insanely strong they are.Cabba managed to hold on against suppressed God essence Vegeta.
Is god essence canon?
Nope,in fact goku and vegeta do not have god kii outside of their super saiyan blue form.That being said it was impressive that Cabba was equal to base Vegeta that trained with Whis.
No he didn't. He fell after one punch to the gut.
after vegeta use super saiyan blue only cabba was managing fine until then
I mean there are time when They fight in base form and are ridiculously strong. Like base Goku lasting longer against Hit than SSB Vegeta. My theory is that they can turn essence off and on.
caulifla was the only one that used the method if you pay attention kabba just explained the feeling and it didn't work for kale till she got emotional
Biologist around here: Species is quite complicated to define, and reproduction across different species with viable offspring is quite common: Chromosome number is VERY important for being able to have offspring, so hybrids coming from species with the same number of those are usually able to reproduce, while those coming from species with different numbers are usually sterile. Turns out, horses/donkeys or tiger/lions have different numbers, and so the hybrids are sterile. But wolves/coyotes, for example, have the same number, and their hybrids are able to reproduce, and have populations in the wild functioning differently from either parent species.
MARKETING! ( And some rushed lazy writing in the progress )
Bruno G dos Santos I wouldn't say it's rushed since these episodes were made months ago
Bruno G dos Santos Wouldn't say lazy (maybe for SSJ2 Caulifla)
Marketing, plot convenience and rushing through the story.
Yeah, but they could have done a better background work, build the characters a little more. Intense sparring? Add some risky situation maybe? No! Let's just copy Broly movie. Caulifla SSJ2 is so... "oh yea, super saiyan..."
Yep I totally agree. Or SS... already known and unlocked. In the tournie it would not have mattered much. Vegeta could have opened Cabba's mind to higher levels regardless and when we end up seeing the other universe we just see the others are SS and they're recruited and trained in the hyperbolic timechamber there or simply had intense training with Vados. Don't even show details. Imply they'd been at it. Because a lot of people claim this and that about their base power etc but the problem is... nothing is decently explained to make it believable following the internalized logic of the show. Hence I suspect they came up with all this really on the spot with little planning ahead. Hopefully the manga goes about it better.
Can power or strength also be passed down to offspring? If so Pan still has a chance of being human with just a large inherited power.
Well... let's not forget that Krillin is still pretty strong. We all give the guy shit, but he's arguably the strongest human. At least the strongest with two eyes. If power can be inherited, then Pan would be... mystic. I guess.
Jon Edits Impossible because she was part of the SSGod ritual. It wouldn't have worked if Pan was human.
The bit about why Trunks and Goten can go SS easier because their fathers had done it contains a massive error: Vegeta had not achieved SS before Trunks' conception. Those genes would not have been "switched on" in the same way they had in Goku before Goten's conception. But, all in all, fascinating theory!
*This was relieving. It's still unsettling with this "tingly" description, but it is what it is. Now only if that Kale scene wasn't a complete knockoff. . .*
Present Trunks was born before Vegeta unlocked Super Saiyan though. How does that work?
Rayquaoxys3846
I was thinking the exact same thing during the video.
I think the easier explanation is that (since GT is non-canon it does not apply) a being with dominant Saiyan genes can evolve past the point of having tails. Goten, Trunks, Pan, Bra, Cabba, Kale, Caulifla were born without tails. No tails probably forces the body to develop Super Saiyan easily as a defense mechanism.
Also..future trunks had a hard time going Ssj at first and didnt get it until 13-14..why did kid trunks unlock it so quickly at 8(assuming her didnt do so earlier) Future trunks had the mental trauma and motivation to go ssj as well as the need. While Kid Trunks had neither.
Rayquaoxys3846 I lile the genetic reasoning for Goten, I'm also fairly certain Trunks was conceived before Vegeta became a Super Saiyan. I imagine it may have been Trunks training with Vegeta or sparring matches with Goten when they played together that lead to current timeline Trunks early Super Saiyan transformation
I gave that a lot of thought and i think its because he had the ability and more than enough strength and power to he just hadnt figured out the trigger. and Vegeta might have almost or partially transformed offscreen during one of his gravity chamber training sessions. and sense nobody saw it to say he almost did he didnt know.
in a more peaceful society of saiyans though, statistically fewer and fewer would be transforming into super saiyans though, as evidenced by Cabba's complete unfamiliarity with the form when Vegeta showed it off. Therefore Cabba, Kale, and Caulifla should have about as much difficulty transforming as did Goku, Vegeta, Future Trunks, and Gohan.
Or maybe because they have more emotional depth than the previous Saiyans, they need less raw rage to transform at all.
oh yeah because Goku, Vegeta, Future Trunks, and Gohan have no fucking emotional depth at all. Get the fuck out of here, that's a steaming load of bullshit and you know it.
I'm just saiying that their evolution path was much less violent and warlike so it makes some sense that rage would be less of a factor. Goku and Gohan mastered Super Saiyan and regulated the emotion and rage needed and we know that Saiyans are naturally more violent and aggressive than humans in U7. U6 Saiyans seem basically human as opposed to the ancient marauding Saiyans with the Tuffles or the modern mercenaries under Frieza.
agreed it was much less violent and warlike. Therefore it was much less stressful, and therefore the Saiyans wouldn't be so encouraged to be a warrior race, and the Super Saiyan transformation should at least be ass difficult for them as it was for the main characters.
The Super Saiyan transformation seems to be a matter of power as much as emotion. Take Vegeta, Goku, Gohan, and Future Trunks incredibly harrowing transformations and compare them to Goten and Kid Trunks super easy transformations. At a certain point, simply having the power is half the battle, the transformation would never have been found by the U6 Saiyans without Vegeta telling them because they couldn't even transform accidentally like Goten who had no idea of it's existence either.
U7 Saiyans never would have reached the same levels of power as U7 Saiyans because they kept dying off due to Frieza sending them off on suicide missions before ultimately killing them all. Still, they were aware of the SS and Great Ape forms due to their usage in their history. U6 seem to have neither because they never were that mercenary, marauding band of genocidal monsters.
There's just one thing that might be a factor here that a lot of people are forgetting: IT'S LITERALLY AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE. Screw the alternate history, screw the genetics, they just simply don't HAVE to work the same way. This isn't to say it's an excuse to use "It's magic, I don't have to explain it," it's just that there's more than likely an In-Universe reason for it, literally.
I think this is an interesting way to add more Super Saiyins and as you said how they are different and how they actually do it.