@@alexisdominguez5016 Based off of the simple fact that Alex just clearly and concisely corrected all of Kirk's arguments in this video, with scripture mind you, I think perhaps your wishful thinking outweighs your prudence. I say this with charity, as its not a competition. I'd love to hear anyone's argument against what Alex said in this video, including yours. As Alex pointed out in this video all Catholic Dogmas are scriptural and have been meticulously agreed upon over the past 2000 years by Apostolic successors. Logically speaking it should be quite obvious to anyone that has understanding of that fact, that mankind taking it upon themselves, individually even, to interpret The Word of God, is exactly what's led to over 45,000 denominations. I'll personally stick to the One, Holy, and Apostolic Church.
I have been a Protestant by default for 7 years. Because that’s how Christianity is lived in Canada. But now I am fascinated with everything I am learning from you Alex. I was born and raised Catholic but never had this understanding. Thank you for opening my eyes
As a Hispanic I converted to catholic thanks to Padre Luis toro who was Designated a Missionary of Mercy by Pope Francis, He opened my eyes by preaching with the bible and not his own words. To help us Catholics defend our faith!
Padre Luis Toro es el mejor! He is the best when doing all of this! If only he knew English he would have individuals like Charlie Kirk, James White, Jeff Durbin, and many others who attempt to attack His Church, learn, and put to shame. If ONLY Padre Luis Toro spoke English. We would see many more converts.
Charlie Kirk was acting like a troll working against the only person by his side. He makes a poor partner. At least Michael Knowles knew it wouldn't be wise to start arguing with his teammate.
Kirk represents the problem with American individualism. The Church is a Kingdom and should operate as such. But to guys like Kirk, it's all about them, and their personal interpretation and their personal autonomy. They don't truly know Christ or his Church. They refuse to submit to a higher authority which means they ultimately refuse to submit to Christ.
I love my Catholic brothers but understand we believe the Reformation was Jesus keeping his promise that the “gates of hell” would not triumph against the Church. Without bringing up history I’m sure you know. Also where does the Bible say Peter had a throne on earth that’s new to me? And for the record I believe Charle was wrong for bringing all this in to the convo.
@PopeDefenders true. I often say that while conservative catholics (often converts) may be theologically catholic, they still remain culturally protestant.
Imagine trusting an institution enough to use the book that it put together everyday of your life and then saying that you don’t trust that institution or that it’s corrupt??? MAKE IT MAKE SENSE
'What if Jesus starts saying crazy things like "Eat my flesh" "My blood is true drink" "Would you leave me too?"' - Unfortunately many Catholics are doing that because like CK, they don't believe the CC has the fullness of truth so they make up their own "truth". They will tell Jesus that He doesn't know what He is talking about and that He actually meant something else. They make themselves their own pope.
I want the voice of reason to take on Charlie. The voice of reason makes me check myself and love my Catholic faith more. Keep on throwing knowledge brother
@@muriel2267 I dont mean to joke at your expense. Im sorry. Been there...done that. Ex cradle catholic. Forget the traditions...they won't help you. Its easy, repent of the things YOU KNOW ARE WRONG. And trust ONLY in Jesus as your savior. So simple, a child would understand.
@@jarrahe I do agree with you somewhat, there are tons of Protestant churches that are corrupt, but that doesn’t mean that all are. The Baptist church that I attend reads the Bible more than any church I’ve ever been to. One of our pastor’s main points is that none of us are worthy of the kingdom of God and that we all need his grace. When we sing, a big portion of our songs are old hymns. There are still good Protestant churches out there.
@litink120 thanks be to God. I am former non-denom baptist and still have many baptist friends. They love sacred scripture and teach much truth. The Catholic claim however is that it possesses the fullness of the truth which I wish all our protestant brethren had as their rightful inheritance as sons and heirs of the Father in Jesus Christ. For example, the 7 deuterocanonical books which were taken from you. I found my way home to the Catholic church purely through study of the Bible and the same is possible for you friend
When they go against Christ's teachings but still try to claim Christian, they are naturally on the defensive. Why do they have to diminish something great that we respect? I want everyone to be unified in Christ, but if they don't want to be then they shouldn't call themselves Christian. If they are Lutheran, Calvinists, etc. It's clear they've chosen a new prophet to follow.
I saw that video and thought Charlie Kirk was getting very upset and defensive, arguing with emotion rather than logic. Michael Knowles clearly felt uncomfortable and didn’t want to engage in a heated debate with a friend, so was trying to be polite by making jokes.
They have to. If you use logic you CANNOT be a protestant. It is completely illogical and it is based off of pride and individualism which leads to purposeful and stubborn ignorance. Logic defeats Sola Scirptura, universalism of sin, once saved always saved and every other protestant heresy.
Really funny how similar VoR's responses are to Trent's. Even in wording at times. Speaks to how clear the church is on these issues that two guys (from different rites) land on the same arguments and conclusions.
The problem with Charlie is that his ego is so big, and pride is a major sin. So even if he honestly sees validity in some of Michael’s arguments, his arrogance will prevent him from admitting it. His whole persona is pride-centered. Such people can never submit to an authority, other than themselves, which is what Protestantism is anyway.
This is 100% correct. When I finally realized I could no longer accept the lie of protestantism I cried like a baby because God finally broke down my wall of pride. That was the final and strongest barrier. Intellectually I knew Protestantism was a lie long before my pride allowed me to give it up.
You really should have respect for your Protestant brothers. Or have you forgotten that they too are followers of the same Jesus Christ that you follow. The only time it’s acceptable to call another denomination “nonsense” is if it is heretical.
@marcusordonez2463 @marcusordonez2463 my apologies to fellow Christians. That being said, many protestants in the US especially consider catholics as pagan worshipers(roman pagans), idolatry (saints) cannibals(eucharist), illuminati (jesuits), and a few other conspiracies that are anti catholic. It gets political too.
Charlie Kirk said that we should be bringing people to the cross. Wonder if he knows that the Catholic Church owns the remnants of the holy cross and nails of Jesus.
I think it is the point. People think they own the cross and others should have to come to/through them to get to Jesus. Glad the veil was torn and reformers pointed out the blatant abuses of power when that was the case.
@@McLovin201 The reformers didn't do much good other than cause division and heresy. The "abuses" were quite out of proportion and not main church teaching. This is typical misrepresentation of the historical facts.
@@ramuelingibraltar802 the abuses weren't that bad, we conducted an internal investigation and found no wrong doing, etc... What other excuses did I miss? The altar boys were asking for it?
Charlie Kirk did in real life what I notice in YT comments sections- he makes a comment that has nothing to do with what the conversation was about, he throws out words that he can’t really define- “mariology, transubstantian,” then he doesn’t acknowledge what Knowles says and moves onto another subject he has a problem with.
@@二コラス_カラス that was my point, he gave no sound reasons & provided no evidence for his attack on Charles. And you apparently can't see your double-standard🙈
Great Commentary on this. Really appreciate your views and helping me understand somethings. Couldnt agree more with you on Charlies basic understanding of things and also kinda shocked that what he said at points in the conversation.
I'm Orthodox/ex-Protestant and I like Charlie as well. However, he is being disrespectful and contrarian to play to the audience. All Protestants want to argue like this with me now.
I thought he, as a Baptist was fairly well behaved about it on Joe Rogan and I appreciate his evangelism. But since he is Baptist, it's only a matter of time before he says something really awful about the Church before a new larger audience. Or we can pray that he continues to teach about the historical truth of the Gospels to unbelievers without getting dragged down by preconceived notions. We must pray for his conversion
@@timothy209 I like Wes and I think he is awesome & great at his job, but he’s a huge advocate for Protestantism and thats not good. Thats why I want the voice of reason to debate him.
Wes Huff has stated on his own channel that he's not a debater and will not do so (he's getting many, many requests). So, for now, video responses like Gary Michuta will do on Apocrypha Apocalypse seem to be what we'll get
Agreed, he was trying to defend the faith while putting aside the debate. Charlie clearly has an axe to grind. Hopefully this encouraged a long discussion between them privately, as that seems sorely needed.
@@Jerome616he has an axe to grind because he knows he won’t get confronted in his show, lol. You think he would do this Against any serious debater apologist?
Huh...did you say Michael did not want to grt into it. Michael Knowles instigated the whole thing. He was initially answering the audience members question but then Michael shifted the question towards Charlie. What happened next was Kirk took him
40:33 until I became Catholic (grew up southern baptists), I literally thought God just handed someone The Bible after Jesus died and said those were the books…
I hate the "If i don't believe in Mariology an i still a Christian?" question. It's not like the Marian dogma is a doctrine apart from Christianity. Like, if you don't believe that Mary is the Mother of God, the Theotokos, then you believe that the son of Mary is not God. That means that you believe Jesus was not God or full God while in the womb. If something is a dogma, there's a reason for it.
Many Protestants fall into the heretical belief of nestorianism. That is another reason why the Catholic Church is so imperative. Who is Charlie Kirk’s Pope.
Mary is the mother of Jesus, who is God. Mary is NOT the mother of God the Father. Mary is NOT the mother of God the Holy Spirit. I don't know why this is so hard to comprehend.
So I do not believe Mary was a perpetual virgin, I do not believe she was kept pure from original sin or her bodily assumption. Would this in your view preclude me from being Christian?
His arrogance is crazy. They are friends yet he is trying extremely hard to embarrass Michael. And it’s obvious Michael doesn’t want to get into this convo at all.
I’m not catholic but I really respect voice of reason, I was watching another catholic channel cover this and all they done was insult Charlie and it felt like it was coming from a place of arrogance or superiority I guess, but voice of reason was really humble, gave very compelling arguments and I respect that a lot and I’ve learned a lot from this video and I can say I have respect for the Popes now, I do have afew more questions about it all but I’m thankful to God for my catholic brothers and the Catholic Church and I’m thankful for voice of reason God bless you sir☝️✝️
I think it would be fruitful for Charlie to have a convo with an apologist to teach him the actual truths of Catholicism instead of what he perceives to be the truth.
He apparently is also cool with the Islamic armies conquering Europe since with no Catholic Church there could be no Pope, and with no Pope could would be no way to rally a crusade…. 😅.
He apparently is also cool with the Islamic armies conquering Europe since with no Catholic Church there could be no Pope, and with no Pope could would be no way to rally a crusade…. 😅.
I like Charlie, but he looked really bad here. Didn't let Michael finish his points and kept changing the subject when Michael gave an answer he didn't like.
That is how most Protestants fight. They knock us back on our heals and it takes a few minutes for us to regain our composure. Voice of Reason is definitely helping us become better defenders of our faith.
@@lukejohnson1274 it’s because Catholics act like Christians and Protestants argue like atheists. We are wising up to your prosperity gospel rock concert mentality.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. And this isn't to say that "Francis is going to hell", but this adequately describes modernist clergy - they have the best of intentions but they shy away from righteously declaring truth. We don't need traditionalists or modernists, we need lower-case 'o' orthodox men of the cloth who declare logos.
@@cfG21 the apostle Paul didn’t do that. He went around Europe “preaching the gospel message.” Whoever believed got saved and received the Spirit. Paul also systematically brought the believers together as they were already a part of the Spiritual body.
@danielvargas9100 correct systematically...going into someone's religious cerimony and yaelling at them that they are satanic sinners who are going to hell isnt systematic...it's purposefully being mean and vindictive under the guise of spreading the gospel..there is a right and wring way to go abojt tjings
We need to get this video out to make sure it gets to Charlie Kirk's team. Edit (additional comments): We have brilliant individuals in our faith that are good sources of Ecclesial knowledge, but we Catholics need Apologists/Debaters who can take the hits, and dish it out tenfold. We need people who actually have a (no pun intended) VOICE of REASON and can set the tone and atmosphere for these situations, and stand their ground amidst the ridicule. We shouldn't be tepid about it! We have over 2000 years of tradition and knowledge, and the ENTIRE COMMUNION OF SAINTS to back us up (The prots don't! We clearly have the advantage)! When the time comes to make a stand, we ought to do it in the name of JESUS CHRIST and his Church! Our voices shouldn't shrink when we are faced with ridicule, it should RING and PIERCE just as JESUS' voice did in His time when He too was ridiculed. It should pierce with truth because the CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE TRUTH! When Jesus taught, He did so as "ONE WITH AUTHORITY", and that authority belongs solely to THE CATHOLIC CHURCH! St. Ignatius of Antioch aptly said: "Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church"! We should take solace in that fact.
Man, I wish Voice of Reason would make more videos, really dig how he's so direct. And on the topic of Church, I have the feeling that all protestants always reach a point where they don't like a certain dogma of the Catholic Church, and that's why the depart, whereas Catholics hold all the dogmas close to our hearts, even when and especially when we don't like them, for we know they are based on the truth and that God knows what's best for us.
Why would anyone trust Charlie? He's openly said he's cool with gay people and there's nothing wrong with the way they live thier lives? So the guy who doesn't even agree with Christ's teaching is telling people to follow Jesus while Charlie doesn't even do that 😂
Also Charlie name calling the pope is nothing more then disrespectful towards Michael and his beliefs openly. These modern day protestants think they can say whatever they want by hiding behind the name of our Lord Jesus Christ but refuse to get behind his Holy Church, with leaders representing it. Please do not trust anyone who's mainstream on the left or right they will do or say whatever to get support for money, fame, and attention like in this clip. Do not trust them
I don’t agree with Charlie on a lot, but his perspective is right. For unbelievers, they are not bound to live by the Bible. We don’t judge outside the church but inside.
@ I totally agree. I wish all Catholics would truly live the faith and sacraments. Sadly before I was in new mass parish it was not the case. That’s why I believe Catholicism has bled so much of the faithful. Something like 65% of new mass Catholics don’t believe in the presence vs 97% of TLM Catholics. Something like 21% of new mass Catholics attend mass weekly vs 90% of TLM Catholics. It’s stark. And I use the term TLM Catholic in regards to my post to make clear I’m not coming from a liberal wing that really embraces Francis. As you know, he’s one of the least popular popes of the last at least 3 centuries. But I do think the church should push and pull. If you’re conservative it should pull you left a little. If you’re liberal it should push you to tradition. That’s how the church has lasted as a universal authority for 2000 years. I think Francis in particular has lost the respect of most Catholics because his opinions are opposed to Catholicism. And in the TLM community specifically because he banned the Catholic mass from being performed unless it’s in sheds or shacks. But I’m still a faithful Catholic because I know Christ will redeem us and restore the church once Francis is gone. No one man can destroy the church. History has taught us.
@VoiceOfReason_ Great content IMHO. Very clear and informative in defense of the One True Church. That photo of St. Don Bosco in the background is based too.
we do not have to like him, but we always pray for the Pope for the sake of Jesus' Church. Besides, the Holy Spirit is protecting the Church. There are worst Popes from early years of Catholic Church 🙏✝️
Charlie was digging at Saint Nicholas before Micheal even told his story. You can't dis the saints thinking you're better for your "direct" connection to Almighty God. That deserves a heavenly slap from St. Nicholas.
What is being missed is the pope does not change our Lord's teachings. The Pope is there to preserve and protect by the MANDATE of our Lord Jesus Christ.
It's interesting that Charlie used the quote about knowing the church by its fruit. What has protestantism produced? Thousands of denominations of churches that do not agree on essential teaching of moral and theological issues, not even on which issues are essential. What are the fruits of the Catholic Church? Two thousand years of unchanging teachings on core essential moral and theological doctrine despite flawed individuals at every level and going against the culture of society entirely.
I'm glad Alex pointed out the "picking and choosing" line from Charlie. His whole position this entire time has been what he (Charlie) picks and chooses about his faith in terms of what he chooses to believe. That was the whole point of the "I find another pastor" lines of argumentation. It is unfortunate Michael didn't call him out on this live, but it is evident to anyone looking at this conversation with any level of objectivity. To be charitable, I do not think Charlie meant to be contradictory or hypocritical. As a former Protestant, I know what it is like to make such statements and not realize one's own self-contradictory claims. You have a sort of "theological and logical blinders" to your own positions, often assuming one's starting point as correct and judging other claims by that faulty metric. The IFB movement taught me this line of thinking wherein you start with the KJV as the perfect standards and any deviations from it (the KJV) are used as proofs for the errors of other bible translations. It's a fallacious way of thinking and understandable to some degree. Charlie, like many Protestants, just suffers from ignorance of Catholic doctrines. He has not taken the time to truly think about these things or read things in detail like the Catechism. We should pray that he opens his heart to at least receiving the truth of the Church.
Charlie's attitude against Catholicism is the actual identity of Protestantism. Without a vulgar and blatant disdain for the Catholic church, all 3,000+ branches of Protestantism cease to exist.
6:16 Thank you for saying this!!! After telling people that are invisible members of the Church that, they tend to be more open with becoming visible members of the Church. I think we should speak more about that.
Great response that I have never articulated myself. When it comes to the Pope, we don't follow any man, we follow Jesus's Divine institution of the Papal office. Brilliant!
Michael Knowles dropped the ball at the expense of "keeping the peace" or "not rocking the boat"....Charlie Kirk attacked viciously...Knowles failed to properly defend the Church...
Great video! Your explanations have helped me understand the Pope’s position more deeply, and protestants don’t actually try to learn Catholic belief. Their egos tend to take the reigns causing them to miss things which are in fairly plain sight. Humility is one of the hardest things I’ve had to learn & am still perfecting (I’ll never achieve perfection, I know); as Jordan Peterson says (I’m paraphrasing), “orient yourself toward the ultimate good”. That ultimate good is God, and God requires us to be humble in pursuit of Him. The ego is so deeply embedded that it seems at first impossible to tame, but it can be for the most part. Never will it be eradicated though.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Voice of Reason Vs Kirk. Set it up!
Kirk is known to accept any and every debate.
We'll see about that.
as much as i dont wanna see charlie kirk embarass himself big time...
ill give it a go ...excited to learn
new things(from alex v.o.r.)
@@MarinXIXIIXIII I’m a Conservative but I always found Kirk so cringey
lol voice of reason would get wrecked by Charlie
@@alexisdominguez5016 lol ok
@@alexisdominguez5016 Based off of the simple fact that Alex just clearly and concisely corrected all of Kirk's arguments in this video, with scripture mind you, I think perhaps your wishful thinking outweighs your prudence. I say this with charity, as its not a competition. I'd love to hear anyone's argument against what Alex said in this video, including yours. As Alex pointed out in this video all Catholic Dogmas are scriptural and have been meticulously agreed upon over the past 2000 years by Apostolic successors. Logically speaking it should be quite obvious to anyone that has understanding of that fact, that mankind taking it upon themselves, individually even, to interpret The Word of God, is exactly what's led to over 45,000 denominations. I'll personally stick to the One, Holy, and Apostolic Church.
I have been a Protestant by default for 7 years. Because that’s how Christianity is lived in Canada. But now I am fascinated with everything I am learning from you Alex. I was born and raised Catholic but never had this understanding. Thank you for opening my eyes
''Because that’s how Christianity is lived in Canada'' (Not in QC my friend... 😊)
I'm canadain . 30 % identified catholics. 12 % protestant.
Keep searching my sister in Christ, you will find the truth.
Literally SAME!
Check out trent horn you'll like his videos God bless
As a Hispanic I converted to catholic thanks to Padre Luis toro who was Designated a Missionary of Mercy by Pope Francis, He opened my eyes by preaching with the bible and not his own words. To help us Catholics defend our faith!
Padre Luis es el mejor!!!!
Viva Cristo Rey. !!!
Padre Luis Toro es el mejor! He is the best when doing all of this! If only he knew English he would have individuals like Charlie Kirk, James White, Jeff Durbin, and many others who attempt to attack His Church, learn, and put to shame.
If ONLY Padre Luis Toro spoke English. We would see many more converts.
@ True but we who know Spanish and English can start within our community!!
Padre Luis Toro had a profound effect on me also. He truly is a powerful Apologist. May our Lord continue to bless his Vocation!
Just watched Trent Horn's video and watching this now
Trent didn’t even know what Triad meant.
@@ItsOnPaper Relevance?
Same
@@ItsOnPaperwhat does it matter here. 🤦🏻♂️
same lol
Charlie Kirk was acting like a troll working against the only person by his side. He makes a poor partner. At least Michael Knowles knew it wouldn't be wise to start arguing with his teammate.
There's nothing wrong with debating with your friends. As long as it's edifying and done respectfully.
@@MRUHY privately yes, but not trying to make someone look stupid publicly
@Roman-Labrador "Nothing"? I'm pretty sure he knows a lot about Catholicism that you're not even aware of.
Protestant (totally illogical) age old fallacies are very tiresome…
@@petros-petra why be a shill for a guy that WE JUST SAW being a terrible apologist?
The clarity you bring in your videos is a gift to Christianity.
All these points you mentioned in this video are precisely why I have reverted back to Catholicism. Thank you for this!
Kirk represents the problem with American individualism. The Church is a Kingdom and should operate as such. But to guys like Kirk, it's all about them, and their personal interpretation and their personal autonomy. They don't truly know Christ or his Church. They refuse to submit to a higher authority which means they ultimately refuse to submit to Christ.
💯
Amen
I love my Catholic brothers but understand we believe the Reformation was Jesus keeping his promise that the “gates of hell” would not triumph against the Church. Without bringing up history I’m sure you know. Also where does the Bible say Peter had a throne on earth that’s new to me? And for the record I believe Charle was wrong for bringing all this in to the convo.
Yeah. I could almost hear his audience chanting, "Give us Barrabas!"
Spot on
Charlie was just straight up rude ,a Catholic was asking Knowles a question about faith and Charlie just jumps all over it so gross
Trads like conservatives are liberals at heart, this is why they seems to have no issues when Pope is insulted
99% of Protestants are rude like Charlie in situations like this…
It’s the very nature of their tradition.
Martin Luther must be proud.
@PopeDefenders true. I often say that while conservative catholics (often converts) may be theologically catholic, they still remain culturally protestant.
It was a good example of prideful Protestant arrogance and ignorance.
@@PopeDefenders this doesn’t make sense to me because Pope Francis is super liberal.
Imagine trusting an institution enough to use the book that it put together everyday of your life and then saying that you don’t trust that institution or that it’s corrupt??? MAKE IT MAKE SENSE
25:22 What if Jesus starts saying crazy things like "Eat my flesh" "My blood is true drink" "Would you leave me too?"
Ahh they already left quite some time ago 😂
That would’ve been a great point lol
I had the same response lol
@@jmdionishow I think the crazy thing was that , I don’t believe the apostle took it literally which why they stayed. ,
'What if Jesus starts saying crazy things like "Eat my flesh" "My blood is true drink" "Would you leave me too?"' - Unfortunately many Catholics are doing that because like CK, they don't believe the CC has the fullness of truth so they make up their own "truth". They will tell Jesus that He doesn't know what He is talking about and that He actually meant something else. They make themselves their own pope.
Michael was being very polite and playful, Kirk was being a bully
Oh calm down
It's nice seeing all the big dogs of Catholic apologists to defender our Holy Father.
God bless Alex, hope to see you in Mass🕊
Voice of Reason never disappoints ❤❤
I want the voice of reason to take on Charlie. The voice of reason makes me check myself and love my Catholic faith more. Keep on throwing knowledge brother
😳 Oh...I love my catholicism so much, my traditions, my merits, my indulgences, and my hope in looking forward to some purgatory.
@@lu-vlyyou’re showing your lack of knowledge of Catholicism. Study and learn before you bash the Holy Church of our Lord
@@muriel2267 I dont mean to joke at your expense. Im sorry. Been there...done that. Ex cradle catholic. Forget the traditions...they won't help you. Its easy, repent of the things YOU KNOW ARE WRONG. And trust ONLY in Jesus as your savior. So simple, a child would understand.
Protestantism is a religion of soundbites for "catchiness" rather than depth. We NEED to support good, universal Catholic education.
I don’t think you understand Protestantism…
@litink120 what do you think it is
@@jarrahe I do agree with you somewhat, there are tons of Protestant churches that are corrupt, but that doesn’t mean that all are. The Baptist church that I attend reads the Bible more than any church I’ve ever been to. One of our pastor’s main points is that none of us are worthy of the kingdom of God and that we all need his grace. When we sing, a big portion of our songs are old hymns. There are still good Protestant churches out there.
@litink120 thanks be to God. I am former non-denom baptist and still have many baptist friends. They love sacred scripture and teach much truth. The Catholic claim however is that it possesses the fullness of the truth which I wish all our protestant brethren had as their rightful inheritance as sons and heirs of the Father in Jesus Christ. For example, the 7 deuterocanonical books which were taken from you. I found my way home to the Catholic church purely through study of the Bible and the same is possible for you friend
@ It’s nice to be able to have a conversation with someone you disagree with without a fight ensuing. Glory to God!! ❤️
Protestants are always so defensive and snarky when talking about (criticizing) Catholicism. . Michael was simply being polite and gracious as usual.
When they go against Christ's teachings but still try to claim Christian, they are naturally on the defensive. Why do they have to diminish something great that we respect? I want everyone to be unified in Christ, but if they don't want to be then they shouldn't call themselves Christian. If they are Lutheran, Calvinists, etc. It's clear they've chosen a new prophet to follow.
I saw that video and thought Charlie Kirk was getting very upset and defensive, arguing with emotion rather than logic. Michael Knowles clearly felt uncomfortable and didn’t want to engage in a heated debate with a friend, so was trying to be polite by making jokes.
Charlie Kirk was acting like a liberal does about Trump
Because deep down prots know their wrong and their theological relativism is illogical
@@johnjaun9231 not true
They have to. If you use logic you CANNOT be a protestant. It is completely illogical and it is based off of pride and individualism which leads to purposeful and stubborn ignorance. Logic defeats Sola Scirptura, universalism of sin, once saved always saved and every other protestant heresy.
@@johnjaun9231man I’m so glad my Catholic friends aren’t as high up on their horses like you are.
Thank you for commenting on this video and clarifying..I saw it the other day and it made me feel uneasy.
What an absolutely brilliant point about Saint Peter rejecting Jesus three times! Love, love Voice of Reason…¡Viva Cristo Rey!
Peter denied knowing Jesus.
@@littlerock5256That’s a form of rejection
@@maryjordan4129 Peter denied knowing Jesus, he did not deny that Jesus was the Messiah.
@ Yes, I’m aware.
@ If he denied even knowing Jesus, it’s pretty unlikely he would have been willing to proclaim him the Messiah at that point.
Really funny how similar VoR's responses are to Trent's. Even in wording at times. Speaks to how clear the church is on these issues that two guys (from different rites) land on the same arguments and conclusions.
Thank you very much for recording this, Alex! God bless.
The problem with Charlie is that his ego is so big, and pride is a major sin. So even if he honestly sees validity in some of Michael’s arguments, his arrogance will prevent him from admitting it. His whole persona is pride-centered. Such people can never submit to an authority, other than themselves, which is what Protestantism is anyway.
you see it on his face at 5:29
Lots of Protestant 's know they don't have good arguments, so this is probably Charlie saving face to protect his brand.
This is 100% correct. When I finally realized I could no longer accept the lie of protestantism I cried like a baby because God finally broke down my wall of pride. That was the final and strongest barrier. Intellectually I knew Protestantism was a lie long before my pride allowed me to give it up.
@@RA-lc5ed we as Bible believing Christians have issues with what the RCC teaces. We submit to scripture.
100% agree with you
As new Catholic convert, it's a great day went two of my favorite catholic RUclipsr drop a video refuting protestant and their nonsense.
God bless you, and enjoy jubilee.
You really should have respect for your Protestant brothers. Or have you forgotten that they too are followers of the same Jesus Christ that you follow. The only time it’s acceptable to call another denomination “nonsense” is if it is heretical.
@marcusordonez2463 @marcusordonez2463 my apologies to fellow Christians. That being said, many protestants in the US especially consider catholics as pagan worshipers(roman pagans), idolatry (saints) cannibals(eucharist), illuminati (jesuits), and a few other conspiracies that are anti catholic. It gets political too.
@@marcusordonez2463 hopefully you received my comment. It keeps getting deleted.
@@anthonyoer4778 sorry I haven’t received your comment. You know how RUclips likes to be with moderation
Thank You brother! Amen to you. I always learn so much from your videos about our faith. Arrriiiibbba TVOR!
You are awesome , Alex. A true Warrior and so knowledgeable . I absolutely love you and what you do. ❤️🇨🇦
Charlie Kirk said that we should be bringing people to the cross. Wonder if he knows that the Catholic Church owns the remnants of the holy cross and nails of Jesus.
not relevant, that wasn't he's point and you know it
You guys talk more about relics and mary than you do Jesus. Idolatrous people you are. Shameless
I think it is the point. People think they own the cross and others should have to come to/through them to get to Jesus. Glad the veil was torn and reformers pointed out the blatant abuses of power when that was the case.
@@McLovin201 The reformers didn't do much good other than cause division and heresy. The "abuses" were quite out of proportion and not main church teaching. This is typical misrepresentation of the historical facts.
@@ramuelingibraltar802 the abuses weren't that bad, we conducted an internal investigation and found no wrong doing, etc... What other excuses did I miss? The altar boys were asking for it?
Great content, you do lovely work.
Yes! Would love a chat between you and Charlie. Once again love your videos keep it up.
The most Byzantine Catholic background I’ve ever seen
I was admiring it.
❤❤❤ You should see my living room 🙏
Truly appreciate this! Thank you. God Bless 🕊️
Charlie is still fresh in learning theology, I think he doesn’t realize he’s own objections are self defeating
💯
You are right, although he is newer in the theology field, he is the better debater.
@ better in wat subject ? Theology ? He would quite literally get cooked by everybody, brother Michael Knowles is not a debater
Clicked on this the second I saw it pop up on my phone!!!👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Charlie Kirk did in real life what I notice in YT comments sections- he makes a comment that has nothing to do with what the conversation was about, he throws out words that he can’t really define- “mariology, transubstantian,” then he doesn’t acknowledge what Knowles says and moves onto another subject he has a problem with.
Charlie was doing what bad debaters do, they don't answer the question and move on to some other strawman.
You sound ignorant
Classic prot vomit.
@@salty-tomatoVery Christian of you to insult your brother and provide no substantial argument to the conversation.
@@二コラス_カラス that was my point, he gave no sound reasons & provided no evidence for his attack on Charles. And you apparently can't see your double-standard🙈
Great Commentary on this. Really appreciate your views and helping me understand somethings. Couldnt agree more with you on Charlies basic understanding of things and also kinda shocked that what he said at points in the conversation.
We have "very marxist fruit?" Saint JPII was instrumental in the fall of communism in eastern Europe.
He seems to be speaking solely about Pope Francis, but even then, Pope Francis is not a marxist.
@@jacobecklund3651 I’m right wing / conservative but so many conservatives over use the term Marxist . Like leftist and the word racist
Bringing fire, Alex. Thank you for this
Fantastic job Alex! Thank you 🙏
I'm Orthodox/ex-Protestant and I like Charlie as well. However, he is being disrespectful and contrarian to play to the audience. All Protestants want to argue like this with me now.
I’ve been waiting for this response 💪💪💪
Ty! Was definitely keeping my eye out for this 🙏
Awesome job Alex. Thank you for showing us how Mr. Kirk “spits upward”.
God bless you Alex for all you do. Much love to you, brother!
BRING THE TRUTH! LONG LIVE THE CHURCH
You need to debate Wes Huff. That dude is getting a lot of popularity as he takes jabs at Catholicism along the way.
Amen.
I thought he, as a Baptist was fairly well behaved about it on Joe Rogan and I appreciate his evangelism. But since he is Baptist, it's only a matter of time before he says something really awful about the Church before a new larger audience. Or we can pray that he continues to teach about the historical truth of the Gospels to unbelievers without getting dragged down by preconceived notions. We must pray for his conversion
Wes Huff is pretty credible
@@timothy209 I like Wes and I think he is awesome & great at his job, but he’s a huge advocate for Protestantism and thats not good. Thats why I want the voice of reason to debate him.
Wes Huff has stated on his own channel that he's not a debater and will not do so (he's getting many, many requests). So, for now, video responses like Gary Michuta will do on Apocrypha Apocalypse seem to be what we'll get
I don't think Michael Knowles wanted to get into it. It was not prudent.
Trads see Pope as the enemy like evangelicals imo....a real Catholic defends the Vicar
Agreed, he was trying to defend the faith while putting aside the debate. Charlie clearly has an axe to grind. Hopefully this encouraged a long discussion between them privately, as that seems sorely needed.
@@Jerome616he has an axe to grind because he knows he won’t get confronted in his show, lol. You think he would do this Against any serious debater apologist?
All those who disrespect and demean the Mother of Our Lord Jesus have Satan's axe to grind.
Huh...did you say Michael did not want to grt into it. Michael Knowles instigated the whole thing. He was initially answering the audience members question but then Michael shifted the question towards Charlie. What happened next was Kirk took him
These answers are even better then Trent Horns.
40:33 until I became Catholic (grew up southern baptists), I literally thought God just handed someone The Bible after Jesus died and said those were the books…
I hate the "If i don't believe in Mariology an i still a Christian?" question.
It's not like the Marian dogma is a doctrine apart from Christianity.
Like, if you don't believe that Mary is the Mother of God, the Theotokos, then you believe that the son of Mary is not God. That means that you believe Jesus was not God or full God while in the womb.
If something is a dogma, there's a reason for it.
Many Protestants fall into the heretical belief of nestorianism. That is another reason why the Catholic Church is so imperative. Who is Charlie Kirk’s Pope.
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He isn't talking about those teachings. He talking about other doctrines like Mary without sin doctrine that had to be council thousand years later.
Mary is the mother of Jesus, who is God. Mary is NOT the mother of God the Father. Mary is NOT the mother of God the Holy Spirit.
I don't know why this is so hard to comprehend.
So I do not believe Mary was a perpetual virgin, I do not believe she was kept pure from original sin or her bodily assumption. Would this in your view preclude me from being Christian?
Great video man. God bless✝️🇻🇦
Bro cooked. He just needs to be more concise. God bless 🇻🇦
His arrogance is crazy. They are friends yet he is trying extremely hard to embarrass Michael. And it’s obvious Michael doesn’t want to get into this convo at all.
Alex. You are a gem. And so charitable. Thank you.
Charlie Kirk is a dork. I stopped listening to him a long time ago. Like Candace, he can’t attempt to prove a point without being pompous.
@@BrianJones-cu2sx ya that funny thing is Charlie acts like a lot of smug lefties RUclipsrs act .
I’m not catholic but I really respect voice of reason, I was watching another catholic channel cover this and all they done was insult Charlie and it felt like it was coming from a place of arrogance or superiority I guess, but voice of reason was really humble, gave very compelling arguments and I respect that a lot and I’ve learned a lot from this video and I can say I have respect for the Popes now, I do have afew more questions about it all but I’m thankful to God for my catholic brothers and the Catholic Church and I’m thankful for voice of reason God bless you sir☝️✝️
I think it would be fruitful for Charlie to have a convo with an apologist to teach him the actual truths of Catholicism instead of what he perceives to be the truth.
Trent Horn has invited Charlie to a chat about his views
You get better and better. I love it!
Literally been waiting for this gotta love vor
Thanks!
.... Charlie's mistake is that he is ok with division... Schism
He apparently is also cool with the Islamic armies conquering Europe since with no Catholic Church there could be no Pope, and with no Pope could would be no way to rally a crusade…. 😅.
He apparently is also cool with the Islamic armies conquering Europe since with no Catholic Church there could be no Pope, and with no Pope could would be no way to rally a crusade…. 😅.
Thanks for this Alex, God Bless You!
It was disgusting to see how disrespectful Charlie was to Knowles and the Catholic Church.
He was disrespectful to the communist disgrace that the Catholic church elected as Pope, not to his friend Michael Knowles.
I like Charlie, but he looked really bad here. Didn't let Michael finish his points and kept changing the subject when Michael gave an answer he didn't like.
That is how most Protestants fight. They knock us back on our heals and it takes a few minutes for us to regain our composure. Voice of Reason is definitely helping us become better defenders of our faith.
@jdub3999 True, I thought he did a great job on Ruslan's channel. Would love to see him have a convo with Charlie
That's what you have to do when you don't have the truth.
@@lukejohnson1274 easy believism is hard to refute, Protestants just make it up as they go. What scripture supports the rapture?
@@lukejohnson1274 it’s because Catholics act like Christians and Protestants argue like atheists. We are wising up to your prosperity gospel rock concert mentality.
The church is the body of Christ and we bring people to the Catholic church because Jesus is the head of the church
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. And this isn't to say that "Francis is going to hell", but this adequately describes modernist clergy - they have the best of intentions but they shy away from righteously declaring truth. We don't need traditionalists or modernists, we need lower-case 'o' orthodox men of the cloth who declare logos.
@@cfG21 the apostle Paul didn’t do that. He went around Europe “preaching the gospel message.” Whoever believed got saved and received the Spirit. Paul also systematically brought the believers together as they were already a part of the Spiritual body.
@danielvargas9100 correct systematically...going into someone's religious cerimony and yaelling at them that they are satanic sinners who are going to hell isnt systematic...it's purposefully being mean and vindictive under the guise of spreading the gospel..there is a right and wring way to go abojt tjings
@@danielvargas9100 paul brought people to the Church..where does it say he did not?
@ Paul brought people to the church? Explain what that means. How did he do so?
Voice of Reason with the best take on the internet as always.
We need to get this video out to make sure it gets to Charlie Kirk's team.
Edit (additional comments):
We have brilliant individuals in our faith that are good sources of Ecclesial knowledge, but we Catholics need Apologists/Debaters who can take the hits, and dish it out tenfold. We need people who actually have a (no pun intended) VOICE of REASON and can set the tone and atmosphere for these situations, and stand their ground amidst the ridicule.
We shouldn't be tepid about it! We have over 2000 years of tradition and knowledge, and the ENTIRE COMMUNION OF SAINTS to back us up (The prots don't! We clearly have the advantage)!
When the time comes to make a stand, we ought to do it in the name of JESUS CHRIST and his Church! Our voices shouldn't shrink when we are faced with ridicule, it should RING and PIERCE just as JESUS' voice did in His time when He too was ridiculed. It should pierce with truth because the CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE TRUTH!
When Jesus taught, He did so as "ONE WITH AUTHORITY", and that authority belongs solely to THE CATHOLIC CHURCH! St. Ignatius of Antioch aptly said: "Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church"! We should take solace in that fact.
Man, I wish Voice of Reason would make more videos, really dig how he's so direct. And on the topic of Church, I have the feeling that all protestants always reach a point where they don't like a certain dogma of the Catholic Church, and that's why the depart, whereas Catholics hold all the dogmas close to our hearts, even when and especially when we don't like them, for we know they are based on the truth and that God knows what's best for us.
Why would anyone trust Charlie? He's openly said he's cool with gay people and there's nothing wrong with the way they live thier lives? So the guy who doesn't even agree with Christ's teaching is telling people to follow Jesus while Charlie doesn't even do that 😂
Also Charlie name calling the pope is nothing more then disrespectful towards Michael and his beliefs openly. These modern day protestants think they can say whatever they want by hiding behind the name of our Lord Jesus Christ but refuse to get behind his Holy Church, with leaders representing it. Please do not trust anyone who's mainstream on the left or right they will do or say whatever to get support for money, fame, and attention like in this clip. Do not trust them
That's not true at all.
He puts the Constitution above the Word of God.
@@Elsupermayan8870 where does he say this?
I don’t agree with Charlie on a lot, but his perspective is right. For unbelievers, they are not bound to live by the Bible. We don’t judge outside the church but inside.
As a TLM conservative Catholic, I strongly believe the church SHOULD push and pull us on difficult positions that test our personal desires.
I think we should see ourselves as Catholics first. In many ways, when we divide ourselves, we start acting a lot like Charlie Kirk in this video.
@ I totally agree. I wish all Catholics would truly live the faith and sacraments. Sadly before I was in new mass parish it was not the case. That’s why I believe Catholicism has bled so much of the faithful. Something like 65% of new mass Catholics don’t believe in the presence vs 97% of TLM Catholics. Something like 21% of new mass Catholics attend mass weekly vs 90% of TLM Catholics. It’s stark. And I use the term TLM Catholic in regards to my post to make clear I’m not coming from a liberal wing that really embraces Francis. As you know, he’s one of the least popular popes of the last at least 3 centuries. But I do think the church should push and pull. If you’re conservative it should pull you left a little. If you’re liberal it should push you to tradition. That’s how the church has lasted as a universal authority for 2000 years.
I think Francis in particular has lost the respect of most Catholics because his opinions are opposed to Catholicism. And in the TLM community specifically because he banned the Catholic mass from being performed unless it’s in sheds or shacks. But I’m still a faithful Catholic because I know Christ will redeem us and restore the church once Francis is gone. No one man can destroy the church. History has taught us.
@@jdub3999 Agreed. Saying your TLM is like saying you're a KJV bible believing Christian.
“As a TLM conservative catholic” do you ever listen to yourself? Foolish
Nice video Tocayo doing me proud out there 💪God bless
@VoiceOfReason_ Great content IMHO. Very clear and informative in defense of the One True Church. That photo of St. Don Bosco in the background is based too.
As a Catholic who doesn’t like Francis much, I feel a need to protect him from Protestants. Our issues with him are internal disputes.
Pope Francis.
@ yes did you think I meant another?
Same but it’s hard to defend what he does. People like to talk about what he says but what he does is… yikes
It's the office we defend. The throne of Peter is the most Holy Office on Earth.
we do not have to like him, but we always pray for the Pope for the sake of Jesus' Church. Besides, the Holy Spirit is protecting the Church. There are worst Popes from early years of Catholic Church 🙏✝️
Great answers! Thank you
Charlie was digging at Saint Nicholas before Micheal even told his story. You can't dis the saints thinking you're better for your "direct" connection to Almighty God. That deserves a heavenly slap from St. Nicholas.
Ya that disrespect to St. Nicholas was sickening. St. Nick paid to have three girls avoid slavery. Has Charlie bought people out of slavery?
What is being missed is the pope does not change our Lord's teachings. The Pope is there to preserve and protect by the MANDATE of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Great job sir on the commentary. Wish you all the best.
It's interesting that Charlie used the quote about knowing the church by its fruit. What has protestantism produced? Thousands of denominations of churches that do not agree on essential teaching of moral and theological issues, not even on which issues are essential. What are the fruits of the Catholic Church? Two thousand years of unchanging teachings on core essential moral and theological doctrine despite flawed individuals at every level and going against the culture of society entirely.
I'm glad Alex pointed out the "picking and choosing" line from Charlie. His whole position this entire time has been what he (Charlie) picks and chooses about his faith in terms of what he chooses to believe. That was the whole point of the "I find another pastor" lines of argumentation. It is unfortunate Michael didn't call him out on this live, but it is evident to anyone looking at this conversation with any level of objectivity. To be charitable, I do not think Charlie meant to be contradictory or hypocritical. As a former Protestant, I know what it is like to make such statements and not realize one's own self-contradictory claims. You have a sort of "theological and logical blinders" to your own positions, often assuming one's starting point as correct and judging other claims by that faulty metric. The IFB movement taught me this line of thinking wherein you start with the KJV as the perfect standards and any deviations from it (the KJV) are used as proofs for the errors of other bible translations. It's a fallacious way of thinking and understandable to some degree. Charlie, like many Protestants, just suffers from ignorance of Catholic doctrines. He has not taken the time to truly think about these things or read things in detail like the Catechism. We should pray that he opens his heart to at least receiving the truth of the Church.
Charlie's attitude against Catholicism is the actual identity of Protestantism. Without a vulgar and blatant disdain for the Catholic church, all 3,000+ branches of Protestantism cease to exist.
I admire every bit of your response here. You are truly a gift from God to the Church.
6:16 Thank you for saying this!!! After telling people that are invisible members of the Church that, they tend to be more open with becoming visible members of the Church. I think we should speak more about that.
Thank you Alex GOD BLESS
Great response that I have never articulated myself. When it comes to the Pope, we don't follow any man, we follow Jesus's Divine institution of the Papal office. Brilliant!
God bless you Alex, easily my favorite Christian apologetic today
Please go on theology Thursday with Michael Knowles!!!
Thank you for doing this.
“Why do we care what rabbis have to say?” 😂😂😂
Kirk smugly just assumed he was correct and then used his friendship with Michael to simply internet troll.
Wow. That first argument was on point.
You and Charlie Kirk should have a discussion for sure. You both sound on fire for Christ!!
Michael Knowles dropped the ball at the expense of "keeping the peace" or "not rocking the boat"....Charlie Kirk attacked viciously...Knowles failed to properly defend the Church...
Great video! Your explanations have helped me understand the Pope’s position more deeply, and protestants don’t actually try to learn Catholic belief. Their egos tend to take the reigns causing them to miss things which are in fairly plain sight. Humility is one of the hardest things I’ve had to learn & am still perfecting (I’ll never achieve perfection, I know); as Jordan Peterson says (I’m paraphrasing), “orient yourself toward the ultimate good”. That ultimate good is God, and God requires us to be humble in pursuit of Him. The ego is so deeply embedded that it seems at first impossible to tame, but it can be for the most part. Never will it be eradicated though.
Awesome job , Alex
Let’s see you go against Charlie .
Charlie does not have the brains or gravitas for an intelligent debate.
Do your thing big brother. Your word is strong and shows conviction, makes sense, thank you for your point of view
Oh man! Let’s pray for Charlie 😢poor man is still locked in a cage & doesn’t realize it 😮
Impressive take here. Well done.
Yo I didn't know you were a fan of St. John Bosco! Massive W!
This was an amazing podcast
Funny story, I couldn't remember what your channel is called so I looked up "deep voice Catholic guy" and you popped up
Sylvester Stallone catholic guy
Thank you for this video! Excelente analysis
35:15 just adding that since we see those OT texts cited in the new testament, Catholics can confidently defend our deuterocanon using scripture
I love how you said “why should we follow the traditions of man”. I just follow the Word of God.
Amen brother in Christ. Being a Catholic is a Christian God is good.