Former Post Office investigator insists cleared Horizon IT victim was guilty
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- Опубликовано: 23 янв 2024
- A former Post Office investigator has maintained that a branch owner-operator who had his conviction for embezzlement overturned last year was guilty.
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Raymond Grant, an investigator involved in the prosecution of the post office operator William Quarm who died in 2012 not knowing he would eventually be cleared years later, had to be legally forced to appear to give testimony at the public inquiry into the Horizon IT scandal. Jason Beer KC, lead counsel to the inquiry, asked Grant whether he believed Quarm, a father of five, was guilty even though his conviction was overturned by the Scottish high court last year. “Yes, I do,” Grant said.
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#RaymondGrant #Horizon #PostOffice
The man is ruled by his ego and he can't be wrong. He has no humility and is full of pride.
He was asked if he still believes the subpostmaster was guilty. If, based on his knowledge of the case, he does still believe the man stole money, what could he do other than answer "Yes"? He know why he thinks the way he does, we don't.
@@auntiegc7880 He could of said he respects the court's decision but his opinion is unchanged - but he didn't. That's the point being made here.
@@auntiegc7880 the court of LAW say's he wrong the reason he cant admit he was wrong is the fault of his upbringing and education
@@micky1upyes exactly plus he knows he would be admitting his wrongdoing on his part
Arrogance, not pride.
It is really difficult watching such a foul individual persist with the delusions he and his cronies indulged which has cost futures, financial ruin and at least one life. We need SWIFT justice for the victims, and without delay all guilty corporate parties need to be held individually financially accountable. As soon as a few board members and investigators have their assets and pensions seized to compensate those innocent parties involved we can begin to move on, and teach these people that ACCOUNTABILITY is what comes with those hefty pay packets and bonuses.
Disgraceful. I hope they lock him up for perjury.
Prison for five years might teach him humility.
fifty
Despite the damning evidence against, including the verdict of the High Court, he STILL sticks to his guilty assumption. Disgusting, truly disgusting not to entertain even the remotest possibility that he was wrong. THIS is the issue we have today.
If he worked for Murdoch he’d be Kelvin MacKenzie.
This vile man couldn't be bothered to read the information bundle sent to him, still says teh Sub PostMaster is guilty and all this despite he had no evidence the Horizon system was creative accounting. Too busy to read the Enquiry documents and just can't be bothered. And he sent innocent people to prison and worse. What a vile creature.
How can you characterise this man as "vile" based on the content of this video?
This man thought so little of the inquiry that he submitted only two pages of evidence and thought singing carols and walking dogs was more important. He should be in the same cell as Paula Vennells. Disgusting behaviour.
This guy is the living embodiment of the British Establishment.
He's the living embodiment of something, that's for sure, but you'd have to add a couple of zeros to his salary, and three or four zeros onto his assets, for him to be part of the Establishment. He's currently employed as a Salvation Army care-home worker who once had a modestly-paid role with the post office.
@@ftumschk I'm talking more about his attitude than his job or salary.
@@MadBiker-vj5qj The "British Establishment" is a specific term which refers to rich, well-connected people and/or members of the upper class. This man is none of those things.
@@ftumschk He is possibly still proud of his investigative role at the PO and cannot admit to himself that he might have been wrong, because loss of the image one has of oneself can be a devastating thing. But he comes across as arrogant and part of the systemic problems at the PO.....he was sent to find these people guilty and that is what he did. I guess he can use "I was only following orders"
@@Sean006 I agree about his motivations, although I'd hesitate to call him arrogant. He comes across as a bit of a fuddy-duddy, but he's neither cocky nor sneering, which are two essential ingredients for "arrogance" in my book.
1:42 I bet this PO investigator`s family, grandkids and Salvation Army colleagues are soooo proud of him. Not !
If he ends up being prosecuted for perverting the course of justice, I wonder if he will then bother to read all the documents and look at all the evidence.
He couldn’t or wouldn’t read the documents sent to him he was forced to attend this enquiry just shows the calibre of the personnel who worked for the PO investigators team
The ones I've seen all have an inflated sense of entitlement and grandiosity.
A desperate search for justification of actions that can in no way be justified.
Do you know the circumstances of the particular case under discussion? If not, you are in no position to say whether any of the actions taken could be justified or not.
@@auntiegc7880I know the particulars. The postmaster was falsely accused, based on knowingly faulty software, just like the other 100s of postmaster were.
@@auntiegc7880 And if the person who made the comment does know the circumstances ....? Better said might be - "What actions are you referring to? "
What an absolute toe rag!
So he picked 1 case! For his defence, that of someone deceased! Maintaining a guilty verdict! Even though The High Court has overturned it! appeasing his severed conscience!
Dragged to the hearing
Should face a criminal court and jailed.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM. Arrogance to not be able to admit your mistake or even the possibility you are mistaken. This is Police Scotland in a nutshell!
Are they still digging up Nicola Sturgeon's lawn? That might be where they might think she's hidden all the WhatsApp messages she's said to have deleted. How long is it since they started digging? A year now?
How are Polis Scotland in the frame for the crimes of the Post Office?
This is Post Office Investigators in a nutshell..
He's not police if you were still in doubt.
I think you ought to make an admission.
He should be facing the full force of the law! Absolutely disgusting individual.
It would appear that the witness here has himself committed a crime and should be charged and tried for it. My guess: it will never happen. Taxpayer money will smother the wrongdoings with compensation and the perpetrators will escape trial, justice and even returning a single penny of bonuses received etc. It took a crowbar for Vennels to return the CBE.
You are indeed correct. It smacks of injustice but it will be the unfortunate reality.
This arrogant nasty piece of work should be put in prison for what he done to these postmasters and postmistresses, its absolutely disgusting, this has ruined peoples lives and should be made accountable.😡😡
he doesnt care. they might want his bonus back if he changed his view
They should compare how many frauds were noted before and after Horizon . I guess there'd be a huge difference , that should have rung a bell !
I wouldn't even trust the convictions before the horizon system, post office looks toxic to its core
None so blind as those that don't want to see, none so deaf they don't want to hear.
I think I heard it was approx 5 cases per year before Horizon and 50 after which puts it in perspective.
What a disgusting individual. Wrecking somebody's life and reputation because he cant accept his own incompetence.
Please don't call this Raymond Grant thing an "individual", you're humanising it. It was never a human being.
This scandal is horrifying. The impact on the victims is beyond words. Innocent people went to prison, people took their own lives and this disgraceful episode was allowed to go on for years. What on earth happened to the principals of innocent until proven guilty. Some of the basic failings by these so called investigators is beyond belief and in a culture where officials were not only encouraged, but rewarded for enforcing liabilities that did not exist. The lack of humanity here breaks my heart. What have we become and how can someone cloak themselves in christian values and pass judgement on someone, putting themselves above our legal system. Utterly shameful.
Proving how unsuitable is as an investigator when doesn’t know what this investigation is all about
Post Office should really be held as much to account as Fujitsu
More so.
A judge overturned a conviction, and this guy still thinks him to be guilty. Have I missed something here, given all the stones that have be upended in the last few weeks.
These inquiries are a complete joke nobody is held accountable in the end and it costs the British taxpayer millions
I don't agree. I think it's long overdue and fascinating to see
An inquiry isn't a trial. Have patience and wait for the outcome
@@johntomlinson6849 you'll find out far more from an inquiry than a trial, a trial only deals with a specific charge against usually one individual
Hopefully the victim will sue this Post Office piece of excrement claiming to be an investigator
The victim is dead.
@@deananthony1000 My apologies I missed that bit, that so called investigator should have done to him what the victim did.
Can't this guy be sued for defamation?
The arrogance!!
These so called investigators were more than likely to be offered cash incentives to get a result .
They were given bonuses to catch people, it's a matter of public record
@@davidioanhedges Exactly. I wonder if he had said the man was innocent he would have had to pay back the money?
The arrogance of these people they should be ashamed
Of course Grant says that about a DEAD person. He wouldn't dare say that about a live person.
The whole P.O. accounting debacle is a
classic case of a particular middle class management technique of
ignoring a problem in the hope that it will just go away...
I tell you one thing this enquiry has done, is expose just how terrible the people are who've been working in the more senior positions within the post office over the past 20 years. Every single person I've seen being questioned in this enquiry appears to be remorseless, dishonest, nasty, ignorant and a generally unlikeable excuse for a human being. I wonder if some of these people should probably be facing charges and potential prison time themselves?
What arrogance and ignorance. Ughh
Wanka
I bet when he’s charged with perverting he reads the dam documents😊
Complete lack of self awareness. I don’t think he believes the man was still guilty. He is saying this now because he will use it as a defence later down the line.
Oh..Dear--despite ALL the evidence now revealed..this individual still believes the poor man was guilty---no morsel of remorse/pity/compassion--shame on him!!
A typical post office cuxt
I half expected him to say “I was only following orders”.
That excuse didn’t work the last time it was tried.
This individual is of the same thread.
Follow the money and physical units, not paperwork. A full audit, accounting for money and units sold there should/would be a discrepancy between what was given to sell and what's in stock what is in the company over all not just what's missing in a small area , that is if the total amount of money missing is so great
You are Guilty until proven innocent, should this not be the other way around 🤔🤔😊
These people had no remorse about sending innocent hard working people to prison.
I hope that they get even longer sentences and have all of their assets confiscated
I'm sure we'll be *told* that prosecution would not be 'in the public interest'.
What a very strange man.
Sheer arrogance is astounding
He needs jail time!
Avoiding loss of face and pride are two significant factors as why this has gone on so long. Not being prepared early doors to admit something dreadful was happening and, being prepared to investigate impartially. Believing hundreds of decent, up standing and heavily vetted people had gone feral rather than using integrity, honesty and fairness. Sadly too familiar.
A valuable lesson for every one outside of the justice process! We are allowed to think and believe the opposite to the court verdict! Every day for 15 years we could say some was a thief, or we could oppose a guilty verdict for 15 years then on one day the verdict is over turned and ethically and morally we all switch places!
That odious man is picking on someone who is dead and cannot defend himself.
I wonder how many bags he needs to carry his hubris?
Some of these people took their own lives and this person had to be compelled to attend the enquiry as he thought carol singing was more important. The arrogance is staggering!!!!
Och the wee soul was working 10 and 12 hour days. Nobody else on the planet has ever done that.
Just beggars belief
OMG! He's so far up himself he can't see the light.
Jason Beer is a master at the prolonged silence. The little sniff he gives after the arrogant answer about guilt also says a thousand words.
Well done you , you join the list of the most hated men in this whole inquiry .
It was clear he did not want to participate, he resented even being questioned , and for him the whole thing is beneath him . 😮
There did seem to be something going on with the suspects management of his PO and own business. However the court of appeal has found has overturned his conviction and given the unrelaibility of Horizon we should give him the benefit of the doubt.
Other SPMs had retail businesses alongside the sub PO. When shortfalls occurred they would have to pay the PO from the profits of the retail part of the business, this would eventually lead to bankruptcy. Quarm may have been overwhelmed by the size of the shortfalls. Prior to Horizon being installed, was there any problem? Those questions need to be answered.
This took place in Scotland. Under Scots law, you need two pieces of evidence to convict. Just Horizon evidence should never have been enough to convict yet the Sheriff's and Judges allowed the prosecutions.
Disgusting
These Post Office investigators sicken me!
another one who needs to be locked up, since he is being investigated by the police can we expect to see him arrested any time soon? hi is guilty of either from gross incompetence or perjury,
Can anyone enlighten me as to the qualifications or training this investigator had in this role. From ;what I can see and from what I have heard he was an investigator in name only.
This man is everything that is bad about the establishment of this country
this is staggering.
This is what pompous entitlement looks like.
these people need the jail.
This man was financially rewarded for each conviction so how is he a impartial investigator.
This man needs to be put in prison ,being victims guilt before you do your due diligence and actual job is illegal!!!
Apparantly this character now works for the Salvation Army. Another twisted Christian, just like Vennels.
Yes, I am suspicious of anyone using the christian card, it reeks of hypocrisy. His little monologue at the end was particularly cringe-making, pretending to cry, when he didn't cry about what happened to William Quarm, a grandfather who lost everything and then died before getting vindicated.
Very Unchristian! More Judas Priest!
Yes he does. He took his massive ego with him into that job. The homeless people better watch their backs.
He does not appear to comprehend the fact that he is aware of his responsibility to present all evidence, both for and against, yet in his investigation report he absolutely did not do this.
He makes excuses instead saying he would have done it later ... when exactly? It was then too late! The man is culpable.😂
Arrogance and stupidity.
He knows that smearing dead people has no legal consequences.
Not me gov .
A compassionate scottish person...phah
It would appear that there was an automatic presumption of guilt by the PO investigators, and a complete lack of any empathy. So far I have not seen one demonstrating a naturally enquiring mind. Training and selection of these personnel appears to have been totally inadequate. How convenient for the upper management. Has anyone at the PO got a sense of guilt? if so resign now!
Another fool
Maybe when Raymond eventually comes face to face with the family and relatives of the victim William he may suddenly change his opinion
No!
@@zetectic7968 Very sure Raymond will see the error of his ways ...
Found no evidence but still believed the postmaster was guilty. As an investigator he makes the bumbling Inspector Clousau look like Columbo
Can’t he just say he was wrong FFS!
Fairness! Not the brightest pebble on the beach!
Well, as someone once said, It's not about what you 'know' it's about what you can prove in court...
Another name added to the list.
"Even after all the exonerating evidence presented, I know better than the Hight Court"
Precisely. He now works for a Christian organisation which means he is close to sainthood.
omfg , wat a Joker .
send him to jail!
All the convictions are clearly unsafe, unless the PO has offered any supporting evidence independent from Horizon.
People like him need investigated
Can this man be sued for libel by the victim?
Another bent investigating officer.The more you see of these plebs,the more you feel for the innocent people they harassed.However, justice is coming and history will show people like this for what they are and for what they did.Unforgiveable.
Could be a personal lawsuit by the victim or from his family against this disgusting human being
Well he would say that, wouldn't he?
Otherwise he makes himself look bad.
An arrogant attitude overlaying unconscionable responses .. shameless.
Horizon victim is not guilty,Corrupt bosses of the Post Office,Justice for the innocent post workers.
What a c u next Tuesday!
We need to see Post Office executives and their lying lawyers and investigators (seen here) serving jail time for this and heavy compensation for their victims and the families of lost victims.
Put him in jail
Lock this one up too.
I wonder what "charm school" he went to and what his family and friends think of him?
Lock him up.
lock him up
But there was no loss of money.
This whole affair beggars belief.