EX-Post Office Boss Paula Vennells Faces the Horizon IT Inquiry
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- Опубликовано: 21 май 2024
- Ex-Post Office boss Paula Vennells will appear at the Post Office Inquiry today. Last month the inquiry heard how Vennells ignored calls from the organisation’s top management team to halt sub-postmaster prosecutions.
Former postmistress Jo Hamilton will be attending the inquiry, speaking on Paula Vennells’ appearance at the inquiry, Jo said: ‘If there are going to be criminal charges put to her, she may as well tell the truth but I don’t think she will when you have a CEO cloak on you can be as brave as you like, but without that, I don’t see her being brave and truthful at all.’
Broadcast on 22/05/24
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My husband was the Postmaster at the Aldershot Road Post Office at Guildford from 1987 to 2005, We had a thriving business till Horizon was installed in 1999, after that it was loss after loss. Like all the Postmasters he was gaslighted by the suits at Guildford, and was told its not the Horizon system its either you taking the money or your wife and your the only one this is happening too.. Its a mantra they all decided to tell to make you feel inadequate. We payed our losses selling family property,, we left the UK and now live in Sri Lanka. We have lost our grandchildren growing up and making memories with our children. All Postmasters who where the pillars of the community need recompense for this terrible injustice.
I am so very sorry for you all. The nation is up in arms over this débâcle. It shames us all. However, the current Inquiry, being shown live on RUclips and reconvening on Tuesday, is definitely nailing feet to floor. If the Police are able to engage the Inquiry KCs for prosecutions, they will have the nation's greatest experts!! Their work is phenomenal and razor sharp.
I feel sorry for all the post people who had been accused of steeling.
You have lost soo much. I personally feel these bosses should sell all their assets and put it towards compensation as well be sent to prison for hiding the truth. Also, don't forget the whole family suffered aggression and discrimination with you their whole life.
I am so very sorry to hear what happened to you and all the other sub-postmasters. I hope there will be at least a little bit of compensation in the end.
She should be in jail, an inquiry isn't good enough.
they need to 'stamp' out crime in the post office!!!
Correct ✅
@@dancingverum vennells is worthy of a place in the house of lords alongside michelle mone!!!
The Parliament/government UK needs to bring in laws to protect the consumers and the public, and more broadly, to protect everyone against this type of criminal activities and fraudulent activities by CEOs, board of directors, managers, fraud investigators, law firms, etc. Laws will make these criminals accountable for their actions in the uk and overseas !
@normankennith7919 She already had a place in the church, another institution full of self serving narcissists.
Really admire Jo Hamilton.
My local postmistress in the early 00s. We all knew she didn’t do it.
What a lovely lady, she is goodness personified.
Utterly deplorable and those at the top MUST be prosecuted!
a millionaire crying... that she's been caught and only showing tears on camera. means absolutely nothing
Correct, It is very difficult to get someone to understand and admit to something when their salry prevents them from doing so.
They need to receive millions in compensation and a pardon from the King
The terrible things suffered by these poor SPM's _ ALL of the top team - and below - should have ALL their money taken from them, and be sent to prison, for a good long time. They are ALL despicable. No sympathy whatsoever - and certainly not for the crocodile tears. Are we supposed to feel sorry for her, after the dreadful things these poor people have suffered over nearly 25 years? I think not.
Careful. Martin and Suzanne would be snout in trough rather than whistleblowers .
She knew in 2013 because the forensic auditors told her the software was faulty...before she fired them.
"We know they are lying. They know they are lying. They know that we know they are lying. We know that they know that we know they are lying. And still they continue to lie." -Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Miss "I CAN'T REMEMBER"
When ever questioned & takes no responsibility for her position in the post office
She should go to prison
"We know they are lying. They know they are lying. They know that we know they are lying. We know that they know that we know they are lying. And still they continue to lie." -Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Incredibly moving. The fact that 74 villagers turned up to support Jo Hamilton at her trial.
God bless you Jo Hamilton and all the others like you that have suffered in this way.
It's a crime you didn't have access to the Lawyers most of these that have given
"evidence" at the inquiry have. Tell them "you can't remember"!!!!
Paula Vennals should be arrested and sent to jail .
Jo Hamilton is a dignified lady - the exact opposite of all the Post Office people who have lied their way through this Inquiry. The met police need to get off their backsides and start proceedings - they don’t need the final Inquiry report to get the ball rolling on this.
The pictures where the smile has been wiped off of Paula's face are priceless ! Why isn't she in prison ?
She was so sorry that when she found out they were at fault she decided to double down,spend a million pound to cover it up and share the money they stole from postmasters to pay herself and shareholders in dividends.The audacity of her crocodile tears.
Tell me how can forensic accountants be wrong even they have said she is lying
From the segments i've seen today she's still trying to cover everything up and not accepting anything, the usual I don't recall, I didn't know, I wasn't aware etc etc. More pathological lying it appears.
Crocodile tears , a shameless display , or was she crying for being found out. She is another one from the bottom up saying she was not aware WELL SOMEONE WAS !! or was ALL of them
I will say it, this Vennells thing is a psychopath, playing victim, unaccountable, evading questions, and the crocodile tears would be a disgrace for normal people, but administrators look after each other at all times, unfortunately
"We know they are lying. They know they are lying. They know that we know they are lying. We know that they know that we know they are lying. And still they continue to lie." -Alexander Solzhenitsyn
She seems to be a prime example of the statistical reality that high positions of Power have a high percentage of psychopathic occupants.
No one will be held to account yet again , just one big cover up !!!
Very much like the Lucy Letby case. Management ignored all the warnings and walked away to their cozy homes.
I think someone will be held accountable,the so called authorities have no choice.
Not this time.
Jo Hamilton seems such a nice person. More power to her and the rest of the persecuted.
The TRUTH?....... NO CHANCE!!!!!
YOU WAS RIGHT
Prison big chance
Thank God they made this tv series. Now the world is finally stepping up to this persecution. Sad it has happened so late.
Vennells is NOT a devout religious person. She uses systems for her own ego and power. She thrives on controlling and affecting other vulnerable people's lives.
Jo is a hero as are all the people who were destroyed by this cover up.
Lock her up!
Paula Vennells hasn't a clue what the truth actually is.
Disgusting what Jo Hamilton had to go through. Vennells should go to jail
She should be made an example of to prevent further corruption. Prison is appropriate. She cried because she was caught out lived her best life whilst people went to prison died and lost jobs, homes. Not on and it stinks a crime has obviously been committed by post office , now the outcome should be prison
Vennels, the priest, swore on the bible to tell the truth - then lied to the inquiry today. Clearly she doesnt really believe.
Venelles needs to pay back that massive pay off she received.
Great Interview Suzanna and Martin showing much compassion towards Jo Hamilton.
I can just hear her evidence now…’I don’t recall that…’
💯 %
Essentially, Paula Vennells argument hinges on the claim that she was unknowingly misled by what she portrays as an overwhelming volume of "good corporate memory," causing her and the entire department to overlook incompetence and misconduct. Consequently, because these transgressions were disregarded, she deems them non-existent in her awareness. Thus, she absolves herself of responsibility or liability for actions of which she claims ignorance, despite occupying the highest position of responsibility at the post office, with a legal obligation to be informed of such matters. She refers to this as "bad corporate memory."
In summary, through this disingenuous and facetious argument, she diminishes the seriousness of events and distances herself from involvement. Simultaneously, she lauds her own conduct throughout the period when, under her direction, individuals were wrongfully prosecuted and incarcerated for crimes that never occurred, and for which no evidence existed. Not only was she aware of these miscarriages of justice, but she also expedited all legal proceedings during that time and halted the initiation of new cases. This was a deliberate attempt to conceal wrongdoing. Her objective was to swiftly resolve all matters, regardless of the cost, in order to sweep them under the rug and move on. This allowed her to claim that administratively, the post office was functioning exceptionally well, with no service issues, despite the introduction of a flawed digital system for post office financial transactions, which she endorsed.
This flawed system necessitated Fujitsu, the program's creator, to have direct access to a hidden backdoor that could manipulate postmasters' accounts without their knowledge. Fujitsu evidently exaggerated the capabilities of the accounting program in its initial proposal, aiming to address any flaws after securing the contract with the post office. It's evident that Fujitsu lobbied for the deal, explaining why Post Office CEO Paula Vennells, in her position of power, took the actions she did. She was not compelled to do so and could have resigned the moment she became aware, or claimed ignorance of, any criminal activity.
The Post Office CEO, Paula Vennells, sought to obtain one or more results for herself directly and indirectly, explicitly through one or more means which are not legal nor foreseen in UK law. This constitutes corruption, as the maintenance of one job role, either private or institutional, through the same means as described in the paragraph above constitutes corruption and does not require a corrupt and corrupted, and even less an exact exchange of legal tender, goods, or services.
The Post Office CEO, Paula Vennells, knowingly violated the law.
A very good assessment. Very well written.
have you got a legal background? that's a very indepth reply. well done
@@carrier411 in a different life back in Portugal i was assistant district attorney for private affairs for years position which does not exist nor is contemplated within the Uk, the closest you have is litigant in person, before that my job entailed to exhaust the realm of possibility in the defence of the Portuguese state but all been disavowed, so for all purposes i never existed nor do i exist today, i am a ghost.
@@rjvtechnologies thanks so much. very interesting. where do you live now then?
@@carrier411 uk
It’s time these people were charged for perjury
She won’t tell the truth ,..because she can’t without implicating herself, she will carry on pretending to forget relevant information
The dead one’s can’t speak.
Jail.
The Sub-Postmasters should receive repayment of everything they lost plus compensation. However, the Post Office have the audacity to offer amounts substantially lower than the submitted claims which I think is disgusting.
Moreover, where are Fujitsu? Fujitsu should be responsible for a large part of the compensation.
Yes good to see you Jo, keep at it!😀😀
This poor lady my heart goes out to you I hope you and all your colleagues get Justice I want to see the CEO of the Post Office doing a very long prison term and everything she owns she loses after all this is criminal yes I saw her getting upset crocodile tears not answering questions directly and keeps looking at the sealing and a female colleague Ava's of ASDA certain questions uneven that person doesn't believe she didn't know
If you are the CEO you have to know what is going on, she has said time and again the she had to protect the post office
They mention Noel Thomas, who always tugs at my heart strings, the Welshist boy in the village. That scene where they find each other, know they are not alone, always makes me break down.
This is reminding me of the Nuremberg trials where apparently none of the defendants were to blame.
Follow the course of events.
If Royal Mail group was earmarked for privatisation, revelation of a faulty horizon program would of blemished the brand and reduced the share price.
That would mean ministers had to of known, have the power to sway judges into not asking where the money went, as in all cases there was no evidence of flash cars, expensive holidays or bloated bank accounts. Ministers could also hand out peerages for keeping silent and they even had to split Royal Mail group up so they could sell the Royal Mail, the only good bit. Was that to stop private investors finding out about the horizon program?
Horizon program in use 1999
Post master convictions 1999-2015
Postal services act 2011
Royal Mail group split in 2012
Royal Mail privatised 2013-2015
Vincent Cable knighted 2015
Alwen Lyon’s PO secretary OBE 2018
Paula Vennels CEO CBE 2019
Imagine, at your place of work, some money goes missing. You get blamed. If you deny it you are threatened with court resulting in prison. Or if you admit it you just get a suspended sentence or community punishment. So to avoid prison you admit guilt. Over and done with you think. Then your company sues you for court costs because you were found guilty, you owe £350,000 in court costs. Your life ruined. This company is called the Post Office. Their logo is " whatever you need us for, we're here for you". They spent £100 million in expensive lawers to try to avoid paying £58 million in compensation. The class action saw the incorrectly convicted see £20,000 in compensation after court costs. The executive salaries were between £250,000 and £500,000
Where did all the 'missing 'money go?
It went into a 'suspense' account and then I believe after 3 years it was transferred into the bottom line of PO income...so eventually would be recorded as profit to the company.
... and where were all the Labour MP's representing their constituents during this time? You know the self proclaimed "party of the people" the ones that stand up for working people.
Interesting the religious connection is mentioned.
A dangerous quality in religious people is ‘faith’ - that is to say They demonstrate they are capable of believing something without evidence.
Perhaps that is materially relevant - if she had the same kind of ‘faith’ in the Horizon system, that belief system could have led her down this road. She said herself she was too trusting - her predisposition to ’faith’ is a plausible explanation for that.
Religious ’faith’ is fine in church or in private, but you have to leave it behind when you go to work, otherwise this sort of thing can happen.
That's a great point, they believe faithfully in something that has no evidence...
Religion. The gift that keeps giving
She's not a Christian. Her role in the church wasn't about being a Christian, it was about power and status.
There are usually two sides to a Christian, the person they present and the real person they hide.
"We know they are lying. They know they are lying. They know that we know they are lying. We know that they know that we know they are lying. And still they continue to lie." -Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Perjury , jail , she will get off scot free
Wrong, huge fraud for many years..
Hi Jo, I don't know that much of this investigation other than what I see on the TV but hearing from you I am crying for what the POL did to you. Please all the best for you going ahead, and i hope this enquiry will give you some peace of mind.
These poor people have been Crucified for years keep fighting Jo and Co
"I dont know" and "I cant remember" will be called " the Post office defence" from now on
Jo Hamilton is a lovely lady, a credit to herself, her family and her community.
I can't believe that this excuse for a human being is already in another high profile position.they say crime doesn't pay.i beg to differ.
Where are the people who bought the four part story to the TV ,to see the Great job for high lighting the plight of the Postmasters . They need our Thanks too
It seems everyone is missing the giant elephant sat in the kitchen.
The problem I see is the lack of accurate bookkeeping at an organisational level. How did " the books balance."
An organisation should know the value of its stock and the revenue it expects if it sells those stocks THE STOCK WASN'T STOLEN, MONEY WASN'T STOLEN BUT POST MASTERS PAID IN HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS IN RANSOM DEMANDS . SO WHERE DID THE MONEY GO? AND HOW DID THE ORGANISATIONS BOOKS BALANCE?
Paula Vennells is now the face of the Post Office! FFS what a to- do.
Why on earth have none of the helpline staff offered the sub postmasters the inside story? What were they being told?
I would *love* the inquiry to find one those Horizon help desk staff and find out from them who told them to say “You’re the only one experiencing those problems .
This woman is lovely .. I’m so sorry this happened to her ..Paula was making lots of money off of people like Jo.. it is a outrage💔👿🤬
everyone look up Satwinder Bains of Duncan Lewis, a cousin of Jasbir Singh from Post Office. she routinely pleads her clients guilty too just like her PO family. it is not far from the tree of rotten apples unfort
Any senior company executive that does not know what is happening or can't remember events should never have been given their high-paying position.
This is a farce. All those who suffered need to be compensated now. Immediately. And all those responsible need to pay. Financially and with jail time for their malevolent action (or deliberate inaction).
Keep asking who told hundreds of people it was only them a deliberate lie and those people should be prosecuted. Also where did all the money go that folk had to pay into the system that obviously was crooked.
No amount of money is going to help anybody.
These people want to know the truth and want to see those responsible punished for what they've.
Throwing money at problems as compensation never works when souls are injured.
Jo Hamilton is wonderful. Cool, calm, collected and very dignified in the face of corrupt and immoral executives. Her poised and restrained behaviour in the courts is admirable. I'd love to see a world where the Van Den Bogerds and Vennells and Davies and all the other charlatans are replaced by people like Jo.
For a CEO in charge of such a gigantic issue she can’t recall much nor even knew the structure of the business she was running. She suddenly remembers things that put her in a good light ! 700k a year that’s cost the tax payer plus her bonus plus her pension. It’s a disgrace. Hope the post masters are getting good legal advice in terms of criminal charges and that happens. Abuse of position, preventing the course of justice maybe. 😅
This woman would be 'digging her own grave' if she told the "truth"! So clearly she will go kicking and screaming to the end! In my opinion it is quite despicable what she did and no doubt that will be the conclusion of the courts!
The Establishment will merely close ranks after this enquiry
Telling lies is not for the ordinary guys, but to the tories and their cronies it their first language.
Just doing a,rewatch of mr bates and the post office and its again made me shiver with how POL operated......
Has she been taking interview lessons from Nicola Sturgeon?
" I am very sorry.......I got found out...."
Jo is such a wonderful woman. An example to everyone!
But ... but ... but I had to stop the truth from getting out as it would have damaged my performance related bonuses and my gold plated pension contributions ... just lock the v i l e so called woman up
I'll believe she believes in a god when she kneels before the SPM and begs them for forgiveness.
Religion is all about social control and those on the sociopathy continuum are all about control
Excellent by Susanna
Where did the money go and was anyone in the Post Office deliberately complicit?
When Horizon was installed and the errors started showing up - did anyone at Post Office ever comment (or something ?) about the increase in money going missing? Did they think the post masters had just been able to get away with theft in the past but now they're being caught? Surely Post Office was able to know that $48,000 (example only) was never in play to begin with. Post Office had to know how much money any branch had access to!
good point
Truth they wouldn’t know what truth looks like if it poked them in the eye.
Never trust the godsquad
Not much good news on the "horizon" for Paulla Vennells is there!. 🤔😒🤐.....
Very good 🤭
Computer says no, where is all the cash that the postmasters paid out that was not owing. where did this cash go, who has it. Jail is too good for these civil servants they should lose everything.
Great comments by the host.
I think that often people are placed in such positions due to their 'pliability' in some form, which results in failings of either their integrity or strength to deal with the parasitic slime sliding around organisations in senior roles, who seek to benefit from all and anyone, whatever the cost. This senior slime dont care of the cost, loss and harm to others, but place someone else at the head to avoid taking the flack for their trespasses and criminality.
I am not excusing Paula, but we have to be aware that this happens; that those 'at the top' can often be placed fall guys for what goes on underneath or behind (the scenes).
You put your finger on exactly what happens (and has happened) in many large and not so large corporations in America [I have witnessed it]. The chronology given by another poster on this podcast proves it. However, I don’t think Vennels was an unknowing victim; if I, at the bottom of the heap can see what’s really going on, surely the person at the top of the heap can see what’s going on, unless she has intentionally blinded herself. She is guilty, if only by association.
@@jeremiahchamberlin4499 thank you for your comment and i agree, especially after listening to some of her interview yesterday. She speaks well but clearly there are some things she cannot get passed or sound reasonable in explanation.
She let them down? Lives were utterly destroyed - and taken. Despicable human being.
watching from Australia deja vu on " cannot recollect": cannot remember, our former Victorian Premier and his support personnel/ politicians developed these words and delivered with dead pan expression- yes we too were fools
poor woman
"We know they are lying. They know they are lying. They know that we know they are lying. We know that they know that we know they are lying. And still they continue to lie." -Alexander Solzhenitsyn
What a society we are living in, when decent honest people are being hounded by complicit management, who knew that there were issues wrong with their system and yet continued to persecute the dedicated post office staff, some who died and many others lost their businesses and families, only for the hierarchy to hardly be able to string any coherent recollection of why things were ignored and their continuance of “I don’t recall” or “I can’t remember” is a bit rich isn’t it? They continue to try and bluster through their questioning like incompetent rats in a barrel and should be held to account for their complicit and utter contempt in the dereliction of their duty. They have no shame and should be put into prison where they can reflect on their gross misdeeds.
Vennels and all those under her have to face a judge and jury... And she should go to prison if found guilty
the PO was still charging people during the itv programe.
tq
Is horizon getting sued as well? It was their interference that made the money seemed stolen. Where did the moneys go? The subpostmasters should all have their money back and also all should have restitution for job and financial losses plus damaged reputations.
*Weaponized incompetence* is a form of passive-aggressive behavior where an individual deliberately performs tasks poorly or pretends to be incapable of completing certain tasks. This manipulation tactic is often used to avoid responsibility, forcing others to take over and perform the task instead.
I seriously believe, were Paula Vennells to undergo a Psychiatric examination, it would be found that she has a genuine Mental incapacity to recognise the wrongs she is responsible for. Being in La La land maybe a modern day, rather disrespectful analogous way of describing it, but the inference is much the same. And if that is the case, should she be pilloried as much as is happening! Terrible heinous crimes have been carried out by people with serious mental health issues and after the initial anger has subsided by their victims, they are entered in to a Psychiatric institute , doors locked, lights out, forgotten about! If this matter is to enter a Court of law, I would expect no less of an outcome for Paula Vennells. The thought of her ever being allowed the reins of any kind of company is frightening!
This situation AND the Grefell Tower disaster tells me, that up in the business world, the kids of influential people, who are not too smart or experienced, get into jobs where literally the lives of lower class people are in their hands but have never learned this fact or its reality. Bates was right about 'little people'.
I think the problem with the Horizon system was known in fujitsu but by either incompetent or outright criminal young techs [ and like Jo said here, back then computers were still kind of niche ] had far too much responsibility for their maturity, and too much arrogance and disdain in the face of ordinary folk's lives.
Why do I think it is influential powerful people whose names we will never know? Because they found an unsuspecting Vicar to take the fall.
Beside everything else, going after Jo Hamilton was a huge shot in the foot. She is likeable, she is composed, she looks like an average granny. Whoever thought it is a good idea to slap her with false accusations should never hold a position higher than a janitor.
Some people may call my views on the subject of wrongful convictions extreme, but if I was king & I was given the power > "absolutely everyone" involved in the prosecution of an innocent person including judges, prosecutors, witnesses & experts etc should be given the same sentence as the innocent person recieved (not just in cases like this but all prosecutions).
No accountability, like all those inquiries ( whitewashings )
All the people who told them they were the only ones are also criminal .
If she tells the truth, she will be in jail. But the system will forgive her let her off free because she is part of the system.
Honourable people took their lives over this piece of work, if she had any remorse she should follow suit!