The first video you put out on the uncertified strings is the one I was talking about in the sound byte at the end. THIS is on certified strings, so this has relevance and this has bearing. Complaints about what is happening in this video are valid. I'm not in favor of strings, I'm just against stupid arguments. This isn't a stupid argument, this is legitimate. For every one of these, I can find a dozen more of weirder and dumber stuff happening on free fall pins though. However, in reference to taking something out of context or straight up lying to make someone look bad or work your angle or opinion . . again . . Bowling needs to have integrity, just not you I guess.
@@220vlogs I haven't taken any stance, people just need to make good arguments. Bitching with no context, no logic, and no reason is what bowlers constantly do. If it's new, it's automatically bad no matter what, so of course the powers that be are going to ignore them and keep moving forward. I'm not arguing for strings, I'm arguing against stupidity. What happens when something actually good for the sport comes along? People will still bring out the torches and pitchforks because something is changing. So I'll ask, what is a reasonable, logical, fact based defense against strings that is an argument you could use in a debate or use in court that couldn't be refuted easily? So far it's just been a bunch of whining about carry, and dumber stuff happens more often on free fall, so what's the real argument? This video is valid, but it proves nothing if we're arguing on just the basis of weird carry, which is all anyone has done. Free fall carry looks the same or worse. Defending free fall when pins slide upright across the deck and stand, or get knocked down and stand back up, or having the 1-2-4 backdoored by something out of the pit, or putting the 3 straight back off a 3-10 and watching it bounce back out and get the 10, or seeing somebody take the 10 off a greek church, but still converting it . . if you're defending that, but saying this is awful and bad and wrong and is killing the sport . . it just makes you look ignorant and hypocritical, which means the powers that be are going to ignore and dismiss you because you don't have any actual realistic or relevant input to add to the conversation. All you're doing is working angles to rile up the mob, and the mob is the only reason we have to deal with pins on strings now. People quit over lineage going up a QUARTER. People are bitching about USBC dues being $15 per YEAR, what's an organization supposed to do for you for less than the price of a combo at McDonalds?? You can't even get a fishing license for $15, and what's the point of one of those in the first place? League bowler mentality and stupidity is what has driven this, they're the ones that have closed down a large number of the traditional free fall centers, OR have forced them to have to sell to Bowlero. If they showed up and paid what it took to keep centers open, we wouldn't be in this mess. Strings are the final attempt to preserve SOME form of competitive bowling, but it seems like people just really want competitive bowling to die. They've spent decades doing their best to kill it, and it seems like they're finally going to succeed. Look at the kind of videos you make and tell me you really care about the integrity of competitive bowling. I've spent the last decade trying to educate people and increase their interest and knowledge in competitive bowling, and you spend all your time throwing 20 pound balls, balls with rocks in them, and drilling stuff in a tree. What makes you think anyone with any kind of decision making authority is going to listen to a thing you have to say or take it remotely seriously? Bowling to you is a joke to exploit and bastardize for clicks. Give yourself a pat on the back bud, you're really doing great things for the sport here.
@@220vlogs To sum it up better/shorter/quicker, stuff like this is fun and cool and crazy if it happens on free fall pins, but if the slightest off thing happens on string pins, it's crying and bitching and whining and threats to quit if they ever have to bowl on them . . I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. If people don't like strings, that's perfectly fine, and I'm not advocating for them in any way. People are just going outer limits stupid over them and making really stupid arguments against them. Either say you don't like them and leave it there, OR come up with some kind of valid, logical, or reasonable argument. Don't bitch about weird carry on strings when stuff like this happens on free fall constantly, that's my point. This is just riling up a mob for easy clicks, it isn't fixing anything and it isn't solving anything. You could use the audience and viewer base you've built to actually accomplish something, but you won't. Everything about your content is anti-competitive bowling, it's just about finding the next off the wall nonsensical thing that'll get clicks, so don't get up on your soapbox and act all self righteous now.
@LukeRosdahl @LukeRosdahl that’s EXACTLY what I mean by sheepish. “I’m not for or against stringpins” Grow some balls, it’s clearly garbage. Strings are something we ALL made fun of 15 years ago and never took seriously now it’s somehow making its way into the highest levels of the game. The sport has clearly been failing to allow it to come to this head. IMAGE is utterly important in a sport being taking seriously and this becoming the norm will permanently ruin that. It LOOKS dumb. How can someone take something seriously at the elite level when you see a lil string pulling on a pin, whether positively or negatively, to change the outcome of a match in a crucial moment?? Bowling has been going downhill since 1980 if you look at membership numbers. WHY? Tour payouts are a joke. And have been a joke for a long time. WHY? If we had a tour that actually paid a respectable amount of money there would be a LOT more people who took it seriously and tried to take their game to higher levels. How many high level players do you know that opt to do something else because the money is shit? How has the bowling governance been failing it’s user base so long? Stringpins will keep the recreational aspect of bowling alive a bit longer but will finally put the sport in its coffin.
I watched the RUclips casting of this event for like 3 minutes and even in that short time I saw several instances of string interference. It's such a a disgrace that an actual sport is degrading right in front of us simply to feed corporate greed.
@@russellgilbert3453 Exactly this. Corporate greed, consolidation, and stagnant working class wages across almost all industries. We don't NEED stringpins, they are just another way to further cut costs for owners.
In MD, Bowlero, which owns the PBA, owns 80% of the bowling centers. When the owner of a family owned center dies and children sell, Bowlero buys them up and shuts them down. They have the power, in this state, to get regulators to shut down competition and get rules such that only Bowlero centers can have liquor or food service licenses. They have done it yet. But they will. League bowling in MD cost 2X lair bowling in NC.
This wasn't a title event, but he did lose 1,500 dollars because of the string. I am having a hard time coping with the fact that bowling is going down this path.
Tom Daugherty and Marshall Kent both won a major without hitting the headpin. Keep that in mind as well. You have one kind of weird hits in freefall and different kind on strings. The problem is we are used to the weird hits in freefall and take them as normal.
@@vagabonds5526 The difference is that the freefall weird hits *have* been a normal part of the sport for 66 years. We're being asked to give that up for something else, and many people, myself included, would rather not.
For some centers, it’s string pins or close the doors. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find someone to maintain free fall setters? It’s impossible for small town centers. So I’d rather have strings pins over nothing.
The fact that the first test tournament using string pins fails on a key shot in the 10th in the final match is a lasting memory that has swayed my opinion against string pins. Changing pin weight and ball physics is one thing, but actually tethering strings to pins hurts the very core of the game imo. Strings turns bowling into a circus game not a sport. The money excuse means nothing to me. Imagine if Brunswick had engineered a better pinspotter than the garbage crap that came after the A2.
Won't that shot make it more likely that adjustments are made? Would adding another 4 inches to the strings allow that pin to take out the 10? Would that be detrimental in other ways? I look at it as a work in progress.
@@ripvanrevs - They tried that but the problem is then the pins get all tangled. They shortened the strings to remove that problem. In my view, free fall pins are not the problem here, pin setters are. There needs to be much more R&D into more efficient pin setters for free fall pins. I have watched some YT videos on some very promising technology advancements that are tackling these issues, but I feel it needs further development. The hard part about doing that is getting past AMF and Brunswick, they monopolize the pin setter market. Outside of the pin setter problem, I have a ton of ideas how to promote the sport. I have been a software engineer and software architect for almost 40 years, Brunswick should hire me to implement some of these ideas if they really want to promote the sport. With today's technologies there are a million things that could be done, plus, improve the damn pin setters, they don't need to be so complicated, and we certainly don't need freaking STRINGS!
Something I find interesting in the comments. For those people supporting string pins, they sure are condescending and arrogant. If you have to take that tact and argue that string pins are so "good", then there is definitely something wrong. Apparently the masses of us are not agreeing with you. I don't believe this business model of coercion for acceptance is going to work out too well for those people. All that will happen is you will alienate and piss off the people who are actually supporting bowling as a sport. Once you lose those people, you lose. I find it fascinating that these types of people just can't understand this. Like they think they can force me to bowl with string pins, whether I like it or not. Nice try, but I will never support string pins and I will spend my time and money on things that are actually fun with people who are not such a-holes. Money talks, and my money will talk somewhere else.
People arguing that "Freefall Pins also have weird hits, lucky pin action, and bad breaks too" are not understanding the issue. The variance of weird hits, lucky shots, and bad breaks on Freefall Pins come from a variety of factors. If we ignore the lanes themselves being slightly different from a not perfectly exact build and wearing down differently, the amount and displacement of the oil the oiling machine puts out(and is then further manipulated after that by who bowled on the pair and the different ball choices and styles they have), if your ball has a scratch that you haven't noticed or have noticed and fixed/ignored the issue, and even where the lane is in the bowling alley itself due to vents or doors, the temperature of the house, etc., as those will still be present in String Pin Bowling, the Freefall Pinsetters are as prone to small variances as the rest of the bowling equation. Any variation of how the pins are set, whether by Freefall Pinsetters or Pinboys, is acceptable because anything after the pins are set is uninhibited by any other force besides your ability to navigate every other factor mentioned earlier and how the pins are set. It's the same as a sport like Golf. The course management can do their very best to maintain the perfect green, fairway conditions, etc., but God can just say "Hm, it rains lightly today and the the wind will do a little dance this way." and Tiger Woods's 9 Iron doesn't exactly gel with the wind on the 3rd hole but we accept that. Freefall Pin Bowling is equally unfair to each bowler compared to any other factor mentioned before and if you the player dislike the rack you can rerack and try again. These variances can help or hurt certain styles or off-target shots the same way the wind does with Golf. String Pins, even if they somehow set the pins more consistently on spot, clearly have an effect on pin action. Weird falling pins, wrapped strings, and the string holding pins up or from hitting other pins are unnatural. Imagine if the US Masters in Golf created wind machines that make blasts of wind around the green because God decided the weather was calm today. Tiger Woods hitting the ball slightly too far hoping that the spin he put on it will just keep it on the green is instead walking to the bunker because the Wind Blaster X Thousand was turned on today by the tournament staff. It wasn't Tiger's fault, clearly not doing this would make things better for the players, and there's no competitive precedent to try a change like this. Saying that "Ryan Shafer should've thrown a better shot if he wanted to win." goes against everything that the variance of bowling, the training, the experience, and the understanding of the game has been for many years. Bowling has mainly been an accuracy game but to demand that every shot should be perfectly in the pocket for the variance of the bowlers' bodies, equipments, and every previous variance just to strike on String Pins is unrealistic. Killing out several playstyles and the wiggle room for accuracy to replace with robotic strikes and (inevitably) bowlers who will exclusively play to manipulate the strings for weird and unnatural conversions that absolutely would not work on Freefall Pins is not anything that any bowler who cares about the sport at all should cheer for.
Someone (cough) said that "luck" has decreased with strings but I'd say seeing a standing pin, untouched by any other pin, suddenly fall...on the scale of luck, we're at maximum levels. Strings were intended to help speed/cost/reliability of racking pins, not have a direct influence on the game.
Maybe we should put the Bowling Balls on strings too so we can eliminate the Ball Returns. Obviously won't have a competitive difference, *ESPECIALLY* on USBC certified Bowling Ball Strings.
I have been hoping that for over 30 years. What other sport has an obstacle that may affect how you play on half of the field? Besides that, if you throw a bad shot, you can just yank the ball back before it hits the pins and try again!!
@@ripvanrevs - I am waiting for string golf balls too! .. that way when I hit it into the water I can just pull the string and get my ball back. No more lost balls. I think the only reason we don't have that is a conspiracy by the golf ball manufacturers.
I'm a very open-minded person, but even stringpins are a bit of a stretch when it comes to competitive tenpin bowling. If someone wanted to argue in favor of stringpin reactions being similar to regular tenpin bowling, I think all we need to do is throw any anecdotal evidence away and have some high level bowlers (220, Darren, Packy, Forrest) bowl five games on regular lanes, and then five games on stringpins - fresh patterns, no variables like lanes 1&2 - and take a look at the averages of all players. My theory is that the averages of all players will be 25 to 30 pins higher on the stringpins, with more consistent split conversions. TL;DR - Have RUclipsrs bowl on both regular and stringpins and compare the scores. My solution to this problem would be to completely separate tenpin from stringpin in competitive play. Just as candlepin is its own entity, make stringpin its own entity. The only difference is that the equipment is interchangeable.
This is tough to see… on one hand I understand why these machines are quickly gaining popularity, as they can keep centers open with lower cost, but as someone that frequently had messengers, this is a future I don’t think I can get behind fully. Tough to see a strong mess up a championship
As a 59 year old who gets one messenger a month, i just try and throw it better. Just had my one messenger this month yesterday and it was during the warmup of a tournament😧
@@ripvanrevs - interesting, you know that throwing it better also produces more messengers, right? .. since the day of its inception, part of bowling has been to bounce pins off of the deck walls to take out other pins. It has always been part of the game. In fact, that is exactly why pins are manufactured to relatively precise specifications, for weight, balance and bounce. String pins are removing that part of the game. Simply put, string pin bowling is NOT 10 pin bowling, it is an entirely different game, one that I am not interested in playing.
Great discussion, i am glad you both found common ground. A few thoughts from another much smaller RUclips channel, (the one on the more sciency/boring but useful side lol ). (i would have made some of the points you both made, but i came late to the party, so here is the rest) : 1. Very little footage to analyze on strings so far, but the feeling is what matters to most. 2. Cant depend on data solely from those who certify them. 3. Even if string interference is low, it is still extremely annoying because it is an external factor, and ruins the experience. "Free fall" naturally comes with pin interaction, so it feels natural. 4. Hard to be used in a pro level to determine winners. 5. String pinsetters are an old idea. The first 10 pin bowling pinsetter was constructed in 1960. If they are so great for the industry, why were they not used 65 years ago? 6. The game is free fall pin knocking down. Not attached pins. It has flourished and survived AS IT WAS because everyone accepted the luck factor of free fall bodies being hit by a ball. Strings are a DIFFERNT game. 7. The argument that there is luck on free fall "because pins bounce back", is weak because a) most pins bounce back only by power players only, not people with medium to low speed and revs, and b) there is a smart and cheap remedy : put some material around the pit area that absorbs some of the force of the pin, so it cant bounce back easily. Problem solved. 8. If certified pins "go down harder", then that is contradicting the intended aim, which was to make them as close to free fall as possible. 9. "String pins are a life support for bowling". It seems like they are a life support for bowling CENTERS only. Because they are not going to reduce prices , nor they are going to refrain from increasing them. Also don't forget that the largest revenue from bowling centers is from food and drinks, not the actual bowling. And those prices have gone up through the years too much. 10. One of the problems of bowling is that the customers are not all either recreational OR athletic/sport driven. There is a big part of the regular customers/bowlers that want a bit of both. So they BOTH dont take the sport seriously enough, AND complain about things they shouldn't. 11. Your thoughts are only from alleys in the US. I guess there are similarities everywhere, but i do also see differences in Europe and Asia. For example even though it's expensive for us here too, we actually do try harder patterns. And yes some people complain, but they also start to understand that this is the way to get better. Also, we never had the 10 to 1 house patterns you had, so no one here is used to easy high scores. So they is no bitching if that went away cause it was never there that much. 12. The reasons why bowling centers close/get sold are several. Naming just one of them, is not approaching the issue correctly. 13. For me one thing that would help is a cheap machine for free fall, without strings. Maybe magnets. Plus some materials that will reduce pin action for pins that bounce off the rack and come back. But of course the industry cares about money not the sport, so they went to the already available for 65 years, string machine.
This is why I'm so glad the owner of the certified family owned Spare Time in my town said they are staying freefall. My friend and I tried string pins last month at our Bowlero and the amount of bizzare pinfall was crazy. Never again.
Luckily our bowling center says they will never ever go to string pins. We host a LOT of tournaments, school, collegiate, PWBA, PBA50, etc .. and pack our 52 lane house with leagues every week (the bread and butter of our center). They know they will lose 90% of their bread and butter people if they change to string pins.
People arguing over stringpin luck vs freefall luck are proving the point that the two have significantly different pin action. Whether or not averages will move because of stringpins is only half of the argument. Shots that deserved a strike in freefall do not deserve a strike on stringpins (i.e. messenger pins), and vice versa. We are seeing a significant change to the sound and feel of bowling.
Messenger pins have always been part of the 10 pin bowling game. That is why pins are manufactured to specifications and why pin decks and pin deck walls are designed to specific specifications. Bouncing pins off of the walls for messengers has been part of the game since 10 pin bowling was invented (after 9 pin bowling).
Yeah $2 per game is the most I would pay and I used to bowl 10 games and when they raised the price I just switched to 7 games so it didn't help them and I finally just quit bowling
Virtually every sport ever invented has an element of luck. Take golf for example. I have played competitive golf for over 30 years, there is definitely a LOT of luck involved. Fortunately, they haven't introduced string-golf yet. I prefer my luck to be natural, not artificially induced.
I’m not a fan of string pin bowling at all, BUT, when folks say that free falling pins are uninterrupted, I disagree. Some bowling alleys, most these days from my experience, have kick plates that absolutely interrupt free fall by allowing increased pin action. If a test with a standard wooden kickplate across all USBC houses was enacted, I believe carry would be very similar.
String pins are what is saving the centers. You don’t understand how difficult it is to find mechanics in small towns. For most, the conversion to strings will be the only way to have bowling in their community. Free fall setters are too expensive to replace and maintain for all but the more populated areas.
@@ripvanrevs - LOL, been there, done that .. except I am the 180 guy .. LOL. I get lucky now and then 🙂. I am proudly the most inconsistent bowler in the world.
Sadly, you can show a million more examples of this and it won't matter. The industry has been sold on these because of the "savings" in maintenance and payroll. Add the fact that independent center owners are aging out and it becomes when, not if.
@@jefferydaniels6717 - No, these are "certified" STRING PIN setters, not FREE FALL pin setters. I am talking about redesign of FREE FALL pin setters. There are a few really good designs that have already been developed (I think there is room for even more improvement), and you can find some of these right here on YT.
I watches a couple parts of this PBA50 event and any possible chances of my mind be persuaded to think that strings are somewhat good for bowling went out the window. The weirdest hit I saw was that someone had left a very unusual 3-4-7-9 split, but one of the strings attached to a different knocked down pin took down the 9-pin, leaving a still somewhat unusual 3-4-7. Strings should have no place in tournaments/leagues (USBC Sanctioned or Unsanctioned). The "pinsetter" is literally attached to the pins. #freethebowlingpins
The only ways a pin should fall in ANY type of competitive bowling is the force generated by another pin to knock it over or by the ball itself....its no debate that strings affects the dynamic of the game...I'll argue that uncertified strings are more entertaing to watch because the strings length gives the pins more ability to carry but with certified it just about eliminates all carry costing the guy $1,500 and making the sport look bland and soulless
Honestly i don't like string pins, but after looking at the maintenance of both and the cost savings between the two i can understand why some centers are switching to it. the cost to run a center is ridiculously high, electricity costs, labor, oil, etc. illegal no, maybe let the governing bodies and players decide. this subject is like the bolero takeover, you can cry and moan all you want but it probably won't make a difference, or you will see a center closing and all the whining about another "landmark" center closing due to higher costs because people stopped bowling because of stringpins, no oil, or raised prices on games or a combo of those reasons and too much people are quick to say corporate greed, my question to them is "are bowling alleys a good investment, long or short term?" the "kids" of today, don't respect the lanes, they throw the balls like basketballs, loft it up into the ceiling, walk of with the bowling shoes, all those things add up for a "family" owned center. i would think people who have bowled for a majority of their lives would actually think about these kinds of stuff, but it's always a "me" thing and how it affects them. the economy is bad and it is already to the point where alley only open for leagues and tournaments because that is guaranteed money. if this is the content you are going to push, i'll unsub, tired of the crybabies
I know this has nothing to do with politics but I've noticed when Joe Biden took office, the number of both Bowling Centers closing and switching to StringPins have increased drastically. You know why? INFLATION. This so called "Bidenomics" is a complete lie. I'm so glad I live in the Philippines where Bowling Centers aren't declining and all Bowling Centers are still running Free Fall Pinsetters, including 5 newly centers opened between 2022-2024 with 3 more centers to come. Its no suprising when shopping malls in this country are a huge success and because of that, almost all Bowling Centers are built inside of them.
I actually bowled the event (you can see me at 2:46 trying to convert the 4-7-10). The pin carry is much more fair than the video suggests. Yes, you can get some weird hits but they are not that many. Positives I got from the stringpins: 1. You have to hit the pocket flush to get a strike. High hit is a 4-9, light hit, you can get away with swisher but not that often. 2. Getting a brooklyn strike is much more uncommon (5 pin stands) 3. Messengers are exciting, but let’s be honest. Messenger is actually a flat ten. On strings you get the flat ten everytime. 4. Very weak hits are heavily penalized. Seen a 4-5-7 twice and a couple of 5-7 as well. Bottomline, besides few weird hits (Honestly, I saw very few and I played and watched the entire event), the pin carry is fair. Accuracy is rewarded and bad shots are penalized. Regards
Hey vagabonds! I highlighted a lot of the weird shots I found in ~1-2 hours worth of footage. And a weird shot ultimately ended up costing Ryan the win in the most crucial frame of the tournament. You have more experience than I, do you believe strings deserve a place at the highest levels of the game?
@@220vlogs Here’s the thing. There are weird hits in freefall and there are weird hits in strings. We’ve been seeing the freefall weird hits for decades and we somehow see them as normal. You can get a strike on freefall without hitting the headpin! In fact two majors on the PBA tour have been won recently thanks to that. Besides the weird hits, let’s be honest. You get weird hit in strings not more than a couple of times in a six game block. That’s not that the most relevant thing. What I see as relevant is that you can’t get away with too many offhits. - trip 4 is replaced by 4-9 - messenger strike is replaced by weak 10 - hit the headpin on the left. no brooklyn strike That’s all positives to me. It’s oldschool bowling. You have to be acurate, man. If you have an extra power you have some advantage but accuracy is an absolute must. That’s why Walter won 🤣
@@220vlogs Ryan’s last shot was not perfect. He would have rolled the ten pin on freefall, but his shot was not flush. Keep that in mind. I understand that these late messengers bring excitement to the game but Walter flushed his last shot and Ryan did not 🤷🏻
@vagabonds5526 I do believe the talent will still rise to the top. I do know there are weird hits on free fall. But you don’t think the weird string hits will further negatively impact the public image of the sport? Isn’t bowling having a hard enough of a time being taken seriously?
They need to invent a camera that can see, count, the pins standing when the ball hits the back stop, then it just simply re spots the 2nd shot to what pins is supposed to be up. That way if a string caused a pin to fall it will be re spot.
I can say this because I bowled League at a string pin house this year. Everything Ryan says is true. I weep for the future of competitive bowling. I would also like to thank Bowlero for ruining the sport as well.
This is going to change the sport. I’m not against or for it but it will be different. This will award maximum pin movement. Two handers and power players will have an even bigger advantage. Just need to wrap the strings.
I believe the PBA banned almost all urethane balls because players were able to score & win playing straighter and with less flashy flying pins/messengers. They think the fans only want to see the balls hook from gutter to gutter and splash pins all over which urethane doesn't do. I don't think the PBA/Bowlero will go to strings as there are no explosive hits or flying messengers to excite the younger fans.
Urethane balls are not banned. They only changed the durometer (hardness) specifications. They cannot quite as soft as they used to, which is actually just the opposite of what you are alluding to. The 87 durometer balls (the ones that are legal) are actually slightly harder than the older ones, reducing the amount of hook. And it hasn't stopped the pro's from throwing urethane in the slightest. And FYI, messengers and bouncing pins off of the pin deck walls has been part of the game since its inception, it's even part of the playing strategy at times.
@@andy7268 - oh, sorry, typo .. meant 78. BTW, their excuse for changing the durometer specs was the claim that urethane balls get softer over time. That is a myth. They do NOT get softer over time. This has been thoroughly tested by others (see BrunsNick for example). But, still, the newer spec balls don't read the lane quite as early (hook as much). Not a lot of difference, very subtle, but, they are slightly harder surfaces than before.
And how exactly will the "pros" ability to "hook the ball from gutter to gutter" and "splash pins around" excite the younger fans, when the younger fans CAN'T do the same thing, because their center will have these damned string pins. while the "pros" wont? I unfortunately had to retire from bowling 50+ years due to health concerns... but after having a wonderful amateur career I am grateful that I never had to deal with this string-pin nonsense... Bowling is in the process of being reduced to a carnival game... For me it was a competitive sport... Now, our future generations will see it as only a recreation... and a very expensive one at that...
I posted Ryan’s shot that, in my opinion, cost him the title. Very polarizing subject. Everyone is all for them or completely against them. There is no middle ground. The comments have been very entertaining.
I don’t understand the people in defense “that shot shouldn’t have struck anyway” What would the response be if he rang a 10 and the string pulled it down to give him the W? I wonder what they’d come up with to defend that.
So, if messengers and free fall luck are not supposed to be part of the game, why do pins still have holes in the bottom, to this very day? .. Why are pins manufactured to specific specifications (size, weight, shape, bounce)? .. Why are pin decks manufactured to specific specifications, along with their side walls? .. It is because the "luck" and "messengers" that people here are talking about, have ALWAYS been an element of the game. A very specific element of the game. Taking that away with string pins changes the game and is no longer 10 pin bowling as it has been played since from about 1840. Bouncing the pins to take out other pins off of the pin deck walls has ALWAYS been part of the strategy of 10 pin bowling.
I will say that in Canada (where we have 5-pin bowling), string pulls were part of the game. I've only seen one 5-pin alley on TV that were freefall (out of the 10+ shows with 5-pin alleys that I've seen growing up), and the pin action was much different. Also, everyone is on the same playing field so you can't complain about the pin action of string pins when everyone is bowling on them for this tournament.
I do wonder if power will trumo skill and simple chucking the ball as hard as possible straight at the pocket gives you enough string carry to make it work.
Coming soon a machine to load your ball into, set the dial for a hook or straight release, set back and watch the results. No more knuckle bumps with the guy you know never washes his hands. Avoid the stinky bowling center and just stay home and Wii bowl.
I Dont understand y Walter and webber and duke don't speak up about string pin bowling there the ambassador of PBA they know this is not the right direction for bowling this is so sad 😢
As with pretty much every sport ever invented, there is an element of luck, however, with free fall pins it is un-interfered luck, with string pins you introduce luck with interference. I prefer the former. Was it luck that last week I picked up a big 4 split? .. probably so, but just by luck I struck the 4 pin just perfectly to take out the 6-10 .. and BOOM! .. picked up the big 4 !!! .. I could not have done that with string pins. Probably can't pick up a 7-10 split with them either. Or the common 4-7-10 or 6-7-10 .. which I have also done before. In fact I have picked up quite a few 4-7-10 splits, which means that really isn't by luck, I'm not that lucky.
And yet, the final match was 2 hall of famers (Walter Ray and Ryan Schafer) if some 200 avg noob had won, maybe there would be some issue. Everyone bowled under the same conditions and they still had to make good shots and cover their spares. I like free fall myself, but the costs of maintaining the free fall pinsetters is getting prohibitively expensive, parts for older equipment are getting scarce. The small mom and pop centers will have to close because they can't get parts for their A-20's and they can't spend 60k × 24 lanes to keep free fall an option.
I would suggest that the proper way to combat that problem would be better promotion of the sport, not destroying the sport by turning into a carnival game.
Understandable but he also gladly accepted any "slop" strikes too. If you sign up for strings, you agree to take the lumps, good or bad. I'll never sign up. I'm close enough to retire from bowling if my center adopts and I'll just go play bocce.
I remember when high scores used to be illegal. My brother shot 267,300,300 in the late 80s and they disallowed the score. He didn't bowl very long after that.
This is all because of inflation and finding mechanics. I mean to operate a center and make a profit cost a ton of money. I think it will be a change but we will all adapt to do just like everything else. I am looking forward to bowling on string pins to see the difference myself. There are pros and cons but I think bowling overall will benifit from it. Now that shot Ryan threw on the last ball the 10 pin would of fell if it were regular pins
It does not pass the eye test. Bad breaks happen, but these pins are not falling in a natural manner, and to me it actually brings in question the integrity of the game. Sorry but not a fan….
The first video you put out on the uncertified strings is the one I was talking about in the sound byte at the end. THIS is on certified strings, so this has relevance and this has bearing. Complaints about what is happening in this video are valid. I'm not in favor of strings, I'm just against stupid arguments. This isn't a stupid argument, this is legitimate.
For every one of these, I can find a dozen more of weirder and dumber stuff happening on free fall pins though.
However, in reference to taking something out of context or straight up lying to make someone look bad or work your angle or opinion . . again . .
Bowling needs to have integrity, just not you I guess.
Well said, you shouldn't be letting your facts get in the way of his narrative though.
As long as you remember the sheepish stance you took while the sport was taking its final breath
@@220vlogs I haven't taken any stance, people just need to make good arguments. Bitching with no context, no logic, and no reason is what bowlers constantly do. If it's new, it's automatically bad no matter what, so of course the powers that be are going to ignore them and keep moving forward.
I'm not arguing for strings, I'm arguing against stupidity. What happens when something actually good for the sport comes along? People will still bring out the torches and pitchforks because something is changing.
So I'll ask, what is a reasonable, logical, fact based defense against strings that is an argument you could use in a debate or use in court that couldn't be refuted easily? So far it's just been a bunch of whining about carry, and dumber stuff happens more often on free fall, so what's the real argument?
This video is valid, but it proves nothing if we're arguing on just the basis of weird carry, which is all anyone has done. Free fall carry looks the same or worse. Defending free fall when pins slide upright across the deck and stand, or get knocked down and stand back up, or having the 1-2-4 backdoored by something out of the pit, or putting the 3 straight back off a 3-10 and watching it bounce back out and get the 10, or seeing somebody take the 10 off a greek church, but still converting it . . if you're defending that, but saying this is awful and bad and wrong and is killing the sport . . it just makes you look ignorant and hypocritical, which means the powers that be are going to ignore and dismiss you because you don't have any actual realistic or relevant input to add to the conversation.
All you're doing is working angles to rile up the mob, and the mob is the only reason we have to deal with pins on strings now. People quit over lineage going up a QUARTER. People are bitching about USBC dues being $15 per YEAR, what's an organization supposed to do for you for less than the price of a combo at McDonalds?? You can't even get a fishing license for $15, and what's the point of one of those in the first place?
League bowler mentality and stupidity is what has driven this, they're the ones that have closed down a large number of the traditional free fall centers, OR have forced them to have to sell to Bowlero. If they showed up and paid what it took to keep centers open, we wouldn't be in this mess. Strings are the final attempt to preserve SOME form of competitive bowling, but it seems like people just really want competitive bowling to die. They've spent decades doing their best to kill it, and it seems like they're finally going to succeed.
Look at the kind of videos you make and tell me you really care about the integrity of competitive bowling. I've spent the last decade trying to educate people and increase their interest and knowledge in competitive bowling, and you spend all your time throwing 20 pound balls, balls with rocks in them, and drilling stuff in a tree.
What makes you think anyone with any kind of decision making authority is going to listen to a thing you have to say or take it remotely seriously? Bowling to you is a joke to exploit and bastardize for clicks. Give yourself a pat on the back bud, you're really doing great things for the sport here.
@@220vlogs To sum it up better/shorter/quicker, stuff like this is fun and cool and crazy if it happens on free fall pins, but if the slightest off thing happens on string pins, it's crying and bitching and whining and threats to quit if they ever have to bowl on them . .
I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. If people don't like strings, that's perfectly fine, and I'm not advocating for them in any way. People are just going outer limits stupid over them and making really stupid arguments against them. Either say you don't like them and leave it there, OR come up with some kind of valid, logical, or reasonable argument. Don't bitch about weird carry on strings when stuff like this happens on free fall constantly, that's my point. This is just riling up a mob for easy clicks, it isn't fixing anything and it isn't solving anything.
You could use the audience and viewer base you've built to actually accomplish something, but you won't. Everything about your content is anti-competitive bowling, it's just about finding the next off the wall nonsensical thing that'll get clicks, so don't get up on your soapbox and act all self righteous now.
@LukeRosdahl @LukeRosdahl that’s EXACTLY what I mean by sheepish. “I’m not for or against stringpins”
Grow some balls, it’s clearly garbage. Strings are something we ALL made fun of 15 years ago and never took seriously now it’s somehow making its way into the highest levels of the game. The sport has clearly been failing to allow it to come to this head.
IMAGE is utterly important in a sport being taking seriously and this becoming the norm will permanently ruin that. It LOOKS dumb. How can someone take something seriously at the elite level when you see a lil string pulling on a pin, whether positively or negatively, to change the outcome of a match in a crucial moment??
Bowling has been going downhill since 1980 if you look at membership numbers. WHY?
Tour payouts are a joke. And have been a joke for a long time. WHY? If we had a tour that actually paid a respectable amount of money there would be a LOT more people who took it seriously and tried to take their game to higher levels. How many high level players do you know that opt to do something else because the money is shit? How has the bowling governance been failing it’s user base so long?
Stringpins will keep the recreational aspect of bowling alive a bit longer but will finally put the sport in its coffin.
It makes bowling look and feel like a cheap toy.
I watched the RUclips casting of this event for like 3 minutes and even in that short time I saw several instances of string interference.
It's such a a disgrace that an actual sport is degrading right in front of us simply to feed corporate greed.
Partially due to inflation outpacing wages also. Regardless stringpins are doodoo lol
That's right, Corporate GREED! 🤑
@@russellgilbert3453 Exactly this. Corporate greed, consolidation, and stagnant working class wages across almost all industries. We don't NEED stringpins, they are just another way to further cut costs for owners.
In MD, Bowlero, which owns the PBA, owns 80% of the bowling centers. When the owner of a family owned center dies and children sell, Bowlero buys them up and shuts them down. They have the power, in this state, to get regulators to shut down competition and get rules such that only Bowlero centers can have liquor or food service licenses. They have done it yet. But they will.
League bowling in MD cost 2X lair bowling in NC.
@@russellgilbert3453 "corporate greed" is a fallacy. They can only sell what people are willing to buy. Supply and demand is simple economics.
Imagine losing a PBA title because of string interference. Poor Ryan😔
fryer face
This wasn't a title event, but he did lose 1,500 dollars because of the string. I am having a hard time coping with the fact that bowling is going down this path.
@@paulhamernick9185 he didn't lose $1500 because of that
Tom Daugherty and Marshall Kent both won a major without hitting the headpin. Keep that in mind as well.
You have one kind of weird hits in freefall and different kind on strings. The problem is we are used to the weird hits in freefall and take them as normal.
@@vagabonds5526 The difference is that the freefall weird hits *have* been a normal part of the sport for 66 years. We're being asked to give that up for something else, and many people, myself included, would rather not.
Boycott any center with string pins
And tell any free fall centers that if they convert, they will lose valuable customers.
Take two weeks off and fucking quit
@@TheCD5150 they won’t
@@Crustypenny-l6wthey absolutely do in my town any half decent bowler now drives to the next closest free fall center for leagues
For some centers, it’s string pins or close the doors. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find someone to maintain free fall setters? It’s impossible for small town centers. So I’d rather have strings pins over nothing.
The fact that the first test tournament using string pins fails on a key shot in the 10th in the final match is a lasting memory that has swayed my opinion against string pins. Changing pin weight and ball physics is one thing, but actually tethering strings to pins hurts the very core of the game imo. Strings turns bowling into a circus game not a sport. The money excuse means nothing to me. Imagine if Brunswick had engineered a better pinspotter than the garbage crap that came after the A2.
Won't that shot make it more likely that adjustments are made? Would adding another 4 inches to the strings allow that pin to take out the 10? Would that be detrimental in other ways? I look at it as a work in progress.
@@ripvanrevs - They tried that but the problem is then the pins get all tangled. They shortened the strings to remove that problem. In my view, free fall pins are not the problem here, pin setters are. There needs to be much more R&D into more efficient pin setters for free fall pins. I have watched some YT videos on some very promising technology advancements that are tackling these issues, but I feel it needs further development. The hard part about doing that is getting past AMF and Brunswick, they monopolize the pin setter market. Outside of the pin setter problem, I have a ton of ideas how to promote the sport. I have been a software engineer and software architect for almost 40 years, Brunswick should hire me to implement some of these ideas if they really want to promote the sport. With today's technologies there are a million things that could be done, plus, improve the damn pin setters, they don't need to be so complicated, and we certainly don't need freaking STRINGS!
This was only meant for arcade and game rooms. That's it!!!
Bowling is an arcade game for beer drinking adults that like to gamble.
Something I find interesting in the comments. For those people supporting string pins, they sure are condescending and arrogant. If you have to take that tact and argue that string pins are so "good", then there is definitely something wrong. Apparently the masses of us are not agreeing with you. I don't believe this business model of coercion for acceptance is going to work out too well for those people. All that will happen is you will alienate and piss off the people who are actually supporting bowling as a sport. Once you lose those people, you lose. I find it fascinating that these types of people just can't understand this. Like they think they can force me to bowl with string pins, whether I like it or not. Nice try, but I will never support string pins and I will spend my time and money on things that are actually fun with people who are not such a-holes. Money talks, and my money will talk somewhere else.
The positive comments are just employees of USBC/bowlero/Stringpin companies
@@220vlogs I mean some of us hate blowero so much that we'd accept strings rather than bowling at one of their centers.
I think the 220 average video is relevant and has bearing!
People arguing that "Freefall Pins also have weird hits, lucky pin action, and bad breaks too" are not understanding the issue.
The variance of weird hits, lucky shots, and bad breaks on Freefall Pins come from a variety of factors. If we ignore the lanes themselves being slightly different from a not perfectly exact build and wearing down differently, the amount and displacement of the oil the oiling machine puts out(and is then further manipulated after that by who bowled on the pair and the different ball choices and styles they have), if your ball has a scratch that you haven't noticed or have noticed and fixed/ignored the issue, and even where the lane is in the bowling alley itself due to vents or doors, the temperature of the house, etc., as those will still be present in String Pin Bowling, the Freefall Pinsetters are as prone to small variances as the rest of the bowling equation.
Any variation of how the pins are set, whether by Freefall Pinsetters or Pinboys, is acceptable because anything after the pins are set is uninhibited by any other force besides your ability to navigate every other factor mentioned earlier and how the pins are set.
It's the same as a sport like Golf. The course management can do their very best to maintain the perfect green, fairway conditions, etc., but God can just say "Hm, it rains lightly today and the the wind will do a little dance this way." and Tiger Woods's 9 Iron doesn't exactly gel with the wind on the 3rd hole but we accept that.
Freefall Pin Bowling is equally unfair to each bowler compared to any other factor mentioned before and if you the player dislike the rack you can rerack and try again. These variances can help or hurt certain styles or off-target shots the same way the wind does with Golf.
String Pins, even if they somehow set the pins more consistently on spot, clearly have an effect on pin action. Weird falling pins, wrapped strings, and the string holding pins up or from hitting other pins are unnatural. Imagine if the US Masters in Golf created wind machines that make blasts of wind around the green because God decided the weather was calm today. Tiger Woods hitting the ball slightly too far hoping that the spin he put on it will just keep it on the green is instead walking to the bunker because the Wind Blaster X Thousand was turned on today by the tournament staff. It wasn't Tiger's fault, clearly not doing this would make things better for the players, and there's no competitive precedent to try a change like this.
Saying that "Ryan Shafer should've thrown a better shot if he wanted to win." goes against everything that the variance of bowling, the training, the experience, and the understanding of the game has been for many years. Bowling has mainly been an accuracy game but to demand that every shot should be perfectly in the pocket for the variance of the bowlers' bodies, equipments, and every previous variance just to strike on String Pins is unrealistic.
Killing out several playstyles and the wiggle room for accuracy to replace with robotic strikes and (inevitably) bowlers who will exclusively play to manipulate the strings for weird and unnatural conversions that absolutely would not work on Freefall Pins is not anything that any bowler who cares about the sport at all should cheer for.
Wait, do people actually argue that? That is like...actual insanity.
It takes the fun out of bowling having string pins makes no sense whatsoever smh
Quit then trust me the sport will go on with you and the other dip shits bitching
"That has no relevance..." 220 with no chill. LETS GO!!!!.
its the same as going on a date, your ready to score and you find out a string is causing a problem
🤣🤣🤣
"I don't mess around with no Oscar Meyer weiner" Tone Loc
Someone (cough) said that "luck" has decreased with strings but I'd say seeing a standing pin, untouched by any other pin, suddenly fall...on the scale of luck, we're at maximum levels. Strings were intended to help speed/cost/reliability of racking pins, not have a direct influence on the game.
String pins should only be allowed at little arcade bowling games that you see sometimes. Other than that get rid of them
String Pins should only be for recreational Bowling, not for League or Tournaments.
Agreed, what's next strings on our bowling balls that we pull back ourselves
That would get rid of the ball return being in the way when I have to throw the ball over the 6th arrow!
Should call these tampon pins
😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😛
Ryan's bad luck continues from the 1990s to string pins of 2024...
I really feel bad for Schaffer. He was a great bowler that was so close to pulling it off on TV, but just missed.
I was actually thinking about getting back into tournaments but if they do this I’m done with bowling
With you 100% !!!
And all of this is from just one tournament. It's not as uncommon as everyone makes it out to be.
Gives a whole new meaning to "hit 'em thin and let 'em spin" 😁😁
Corporate greed at its finest
This should be banned. Those are horrible pin actions.
I’m already guessing the PBA is going to call the event a “success,” if they haven’t already.
Maybe we should put the Bowling Balls on strings too so we can eliminate the Ball Returns. Obviously won't have a competitive difference, *ESPECIALLY* on USBC certified Bowling Ball Strings.
I have been hoping that for over 30 years. What other sport has an obstacle that may affect how you play on half of the field? Besides that, if you throw a bad shot, you can just yank the ball back before it hits the pins and try again!!
@@ripvanrevs - I am waiting for string golf balls too! .. that way when I hit it into the water I can just pull the string and get my ball back. No more lost balls. I think the only reason we don't have that is a conspiracy by the golf ball manufacturers.
I'm a very open-minded person, but even stringpins are a bit of a stretch when it comes to competitive tenpin bowling. If someone wanted to argue in favor of stringpin reactions being similar to regular tenpin bowling, I think all we need to do is throw any anecdotal evidence away and have some high level bowlers (220, Darren, Packy, Forrest) bowl five games on regular lanes, and then five games on stringpins - fresh patterns, no variables like lanes 1&2 - and take a look at the averages of all players. My theory is that the averages of all players will be 25 to 30 pins higher on the stringpins, with more consistent split conversions.
TL;DR - Have RUclipsrs bowl on both regular and stringpins and compare the scores.
My solution to this problem would be to completely separate tenpin from stringpin in competitive play. Just as candlepin is its own entity, make stringpin its own entity. The only difference is that the equipment is interchangeable.
This is tough to see… on one hand I understand why these machines are quickly gaining popularity, as they can keep centers open with lower cost, but as someone that frequently had messengers, this is a future I don’t think I can get behind fully. Tough to see a strong mess up a championship
As a 59 year old who gets one messenger a month, i just try and throw it better. Just had my one messenger this month yesterday and it was during the warmup of a tournament😧
@@ripvanrevs - interesting, you know that throwing it better also produces more messengers, right? .. since the day of its inception, part of bowling has been to bounce pins off of the deck walls to take out other pins. It has always been part of the game. In fact, that is exactly why pins are manufactured to relatively precise specifications, for weight, balance and bounce. String pins are removing that part of the game. Simply put, string pin bowling is NOT 10 pin bowling, it is an entirely different game, one that I am not interested in playing.
Great discussion, i am glad you both found common ground. A few thoughts from another much smaller RUclips channel, (the one on the more sciency/boring but useful side lol ). (i would have made some of the points you both made, but i came late to the party, so here is the rest) :
1. Very little footage to analyze on strings so far, but the feeling is what matters to most.
2. Cant depend on data solely from those who certify them.
3. Even if string interference is low, it is still extremely annoying because it is an external factor, and ruins the experience. "Free fall" naturally comes with pin interaction, so it feels natural.
4. Hard to be used in a pro level to determine winners.
5. String pinsetters are an old idea. The first 10 pin bowling pinsetter was constructed in 1960. If they are so great for the industry, why were they not used 65 years ago?
6. The game is free fall pin knocking down. Not attached pins. It has flourished and survived AS IT WAS because everyone accepted the luck factor of free fall bodies being hit by a ball. Strings are a DIFFERNT game.
7. The argument that there is luck on free fall "because pins bounce back", is weak because a) most pins bounce back only by power players only, not people with medium to low speed and revs, and b) there is a smart and cheap remedy : put some material around the pit area that absorbs some of the force of the pin, so it cant bounce back easily. Problem solved.
8. If certified pins "go down harder", then that is contradicting the intended aim, which was to make them as close to free fall as possible.
9. "String pins are a life support for bowling". It seems like they are a life support for bowling CENTERS only. Because they are not going to reduce prices , nor they are going to refrain from increasing them. Also don't forget that the largest revenue from bowling centers is from food and drinks, not the actual bowling. And those prices have gone up through the years too much.
10. One of the problems of bowling is that the customers are not all either recreational OR athletic/sport driven. There is a big part of the regular customers/bowlers that want a bit of both. So they BOTH dont take the sport seriously enough, AND complain about things they shouldn't.
11. Your thoughts are only from alleys in the US. I guess there are similarities everywhere, but i do also see differences in Europe and Asia. For example even though it's expensive for us here too, we actually do try harder patterns. And yes some people complain, but they also start to understand that this is the way to get better. Also, we never had the 10 to 1 house patterns you had, so no one here is used to easy high scores. So they is no bitching if that went away cause it was never there that much.
12. The reasons why bowling centers close/get sold are several. Naming just one of them, is not approaching the issue correctly.
13. For me one thing that would help is a cheap machine for free fall, without strings. Maybe magnets. Plus some materials that will reduce pin action for pins that bounce off the rack and come back. But of course the industry cares about money not the sport, so they went to the already available for 65 years, string machine.
String pin bowling should have it's own division
Why the USBC certified string pins is beyond me! 🤔
M-O-N-E-Y
To bring more people in....
@user-km2br8uc8d This does not further the game of Bowling, it, only, furthers profit and corporate greed.
String pins are ridiculous .. I will quit bowling before playing sting pings.
your 170 avg will be missed
@@danielwilliams5993 -That's great news! .. thank you! .. I won't miss assholes like you .. sorry 😞
@@danielwilliams5993 - and I won't miss you in the slightest !!! .. you will also be missing my money .. sucks to be you.
Oh no, Luke Rosdahl said that... (at the end)
He's a clown...
I like Luke and I watch his bowling ball reviews, but his stance on string pins is not one I agree with.
In France strings pinsetters take the place ... This is not real Bowling.
This is why I'm so glad the owner of the certified family owned Spare Time in my town said they are staying freefall. My friend and I tried string pins last month at our Bowlero and the amount of bizzare pinfall was crazy. Never again.
Luckily our bowling center says they will never ever go to string pins. We host a LOT of tournaments, school, collegiate, PWBA, PBA50, etc .. and pack our 52 lane house with leagues every week (the bread and butter of our center). They know they will lose 90% of their bread and butter people if they change to string pins.
People arguing over stringpin luck vs freefall luck are proving the point that the two have significantly different pin action. Whether or not averages will move because of stringpins is only half of the argument. Shots that deserved a strike in freefall do not deserve a strike on stringpins (i.e. messenger pins), and vice versa. We are seeing a significant change to the sound and feel of bowling.
Messenger pins have always been part of the 10 pin bowling game. That is why pins are manufactured to specifications and why pin decks and pin deck walls are designed to specific specifications. Bouncing pins off of the walls for messengers has been part of the game since 10 pin bowling was invented (after 9 pin bowling).
Day 1 of asking 220 avg to make a bowling ball using a baseball as the core you’ve done basketball and golf why not baseball
OMG , I've played in a few centres here in England with string pins and that is some of the worst pin action I've seen !
You could devote an entire channel to this. Every week string pins are on TV, make a fail video documenting this hell we are about to embark on.
Sorry , I know there cheaper to operate but they don’t fall like regular pins , they don’t even sound the same , it’s not bowling .
Ain’t no way they had a whole stringpin regional ☠️
What really should be illegal is charging anywhere near or over 10 dollars a game... sheesh . That's what's killing the sport
Yeah $2 per game is the most I would pay and I used to bowl 10 games and when they raised the price I just switched to 7 games so it didn't help them and I finally just quit bowling
I would rather get beat by "lucky" pin fall in Bowling than lose because of strings. 😠
Virtually every sport ever invented has an element of luck. Take golf for example. I have played competitive golf for over 30 years, there is definitely a LOT of luck involved. Fortunately, they haven't introduced string-golf yet. I prefer my luck to be natural, not artificially induced.
I’m not a fan of string pin bowling at all, BUT, when folks say that free falling pins are uninterrupted, I disagree. Some bowling alleys, most these days from my experience, have kick plates that absolutely interrupt free fall by allowing increased pin action. If a test with a standard wooden kickplate across all USBC houses was enacted, I believe carry would be very similar.
I believe those same kick plates are in place with string bowling. So, the strings are an item of additional interference.
And yet....USBC approves them anyway. *sigh*
String pin bowling. The hottest thing since Skittle Bowling.
hahah awesome man. it was a travesty. But 2 more regionals scheduled for October (non-50)
Two or three pair of lanes were also mistakenly left on the recreational setting for two games making scoring easier.
The best laid plans.......
if everyone would just no to string pins this wouldn’t be a thing
String pins are what is saving the centers. You don’t understand how difficult it is to find mechanics in small towns. For most, the conversion to strings will be the only way to have bowling in their community. Free fall setters are too expensive to replace and maintain for all but the more populated areas.
Oh no Luke is a clown
If I lose a title match because of strings hitting the pins to make them fall, uppercuts are being thrown at everyone in the surrounding area.
I'm not for strings.... but if you willingly sign up and participate in a string tourney...take your lumps, that's on you.
Just don’t forget anytime where that same thing may have helped you earlier in the tourney.
@@MrMice... Kind of like bowling in a hdcp tourney and then complaining when the 180 avg bowler with a 32 hdcp bowls a 248 and you throw 268!
@@ripvanrevs - LOL, been there, done that .. except I am the 180 guy .. LOL. I get lucky now and then 🙂. I am proudly the most inconsistent bowler in the world.
Sadly, you can show a million more examples of this and it won't matter. The industry has been sold on these because of the "savings" in maintenance and payroll. Add the fact that independent center owners are aging out and it becomes when, not if.
I think you may be right, unfortunately. Apparently they are too lazy to redesign free fall pin setters to be more efficient. This could be done.
@@squidly2112 These ARE the redesign aka "certified"
@@jefferydaniels6717 - No, these are "certified" STRING PIN setters, not FREE FALL pin setters. I am talking about redesign of FREE FALL pin setters. There are a few really good designs that have already been developed (I think there is room for even more improvement), and you can find some of these right here on YT.
@@jefferydaniels6717 He meant redesigned Free Fall Pinsetters, not strings
@@squidly2112There's the Brunswick GS-NXT, that Free Fall Pinsetter has been out since 2022
Can't wait till they go to holographic pins and virtual balls and we all need to look like geeks with giant headsets on. 😂
You are relevant. You have bearing. You are enough, 220 and I am with you on this one.
What a crock! How can anyone seriously think this is ok.
I watches a couple parts of this PBA50 event and any possible chances of my mind be persuaded to think that strings are somewhat good for bowling went out the window. The weirdest hit I saw was that someone had left a very unusual 3-4-7-9 split, but one of the strings attached to a different knocked down pin took down the 9-pin, leaving a still somewhat unusual 3-4-7. Strings should have no place in tournaments/leagues (USBC Sanctioned or Unsanctioned). The "pinsetter" is literally attached to the pins. #freethebowlingpins
The only ways a pin should fall in ANY type of competitive bowling is the force generated by another pin to knock it over or by the ball itself....its no debate that strings affects the dynamic of the game...I'll argue that uncertified strings are more entertaing to watch because the strings length gives the pins more ability to carry but with certified it just about eliminates all carry costing the guy $1,500 and making the sport look bland and soulless
Some of these are legitimately embarrassing...
Canada has strings for 5-pin. They can get away with it because of the space between the pins. No way 10-pin should have strings.
Honestly i don't like string pins, but after looking at the maintenance of both and the cost savings between the two i can understand why some centers are switching to it. the cost to run a center is ridiculously high, electricity costs, labor, oil, etc. illegal no, maybe let the governing bodies and players decide. this subject is like the bolero takeover, you can cry and moan all you want but it probably won't make a difference, or you will see a center closing and all the whining about another "landmark" center closing due to higher costs because people stopped bowling because of stringpins, no oil, or raised prices on games or a combo of those reasons and too much people are quick to say corporate greed, my question to them is "are bowling alleys a good investment, long or short term?" the "kids" of today, don't respect the lanes, they throw the balls like basketballs, loft it up into the ceiling, walk of with the bowling shoes, all those things add up for a "family" owned center. i would think people who have bowled for a majority of their lives would actually think about these kinds of stuff, but it's always a "me" thing and how it affects them. the economy is bad and it is already to the point where alley only open for leagues and tournaments because that is guaranteed money. if this is the content you are going to push, i'll unsub, tired of the crybabies
I know this has nothing to do with politics but I've noticed when Joe Biden took office, the number of both Bowling Centers closing and switching to StringPins have increased drastically. You know why? INFLATION. This so called "Bidenomics" is a complete lie. I'm so glad I live in the Philippines where Bowling Centers aren't declining and all Bowling Centers are still running Free Fall Pinsetters, including 5 newly centers opened between 2022-2024 with 3 more centers to come. Its no suprising when shopping malls in this country are a huge success and because of that, almost all Bowling Centers are built inside of them.
I actually bowled the event (you can see me at 2:46 trying to convert the 4-7-10).
The pin carry is much more fair than the video suggests.
Yes, you can get some weird hits but they are not that many.
Positives I got from the stringpins:
1. You have to hit the pocket flush to get a strike. High hit is a 4-9, light hit, you can get away with swisher but not that often.
2. Getting a brooklyn strike is much more uncommon (5 pin stands)
3. Messengers are exciting, but let’s be honest. Messenger is actually a flat ten. On strings you get the flat ten everytime.
4. Very weak hits are heavily penalized. Seen a 4-5-7 twice and a couple of 5-7 as well.
Bottomline, besides few weird hits (Honestly, I saw very few and I played and watched the entire event), the pin carry is fair. Accuracy is rewarded and bad shots are penalized.
Regards
Hey vagabonds! I highlighted a lot of the weird shots I found in ~1-2 hours worth of footage.
And a weird shot ultimately ended up costing Ryan the win in the most crucial frame of the tournament.
You have more experience than I, do you believe strings deserve a place at the highest levels of the game?
A lot of these clips showed different pin action than free fall but many of them looked like they’d have fallen w/o strings. They just fell different.
@@220vlogs Here’s the thing. There are weird hits in freefall and there are weird hits in strings. We’ve been seeing the freefall weird hits for decades and we somehow see them as normal. You can get a strike on freefall without hitting the headpin! In fact two majors on the PBA tour have been won recently thanks to that.
Besides the weird hits, let’s be honest. You get weird hit in strings not more than a couple of times in a six game block. That’s not that the most relevant thing.
What I see as relevant is that you can’t get away with too many offhits.
- trip 4 is replaced by 4-9
- messenger strike is replaced by weak 10
- hit the headpin on the left. no brooklyn strike
That’s all positives to me. It’s oldschool bowling. You have to be acurate, man. If you have an extra power you have some advantage but accuracy is an absolute must. That’s why Walter won 🤣
@@220vlogs Ryan’s last shot was not perfect. He would have rolled the ten pin on freefall, but his shot was not flush. Keep that in mind.
I understand that these late messengers bring excitement to the game but Walter flushed his last shot and Ryan did not 🤷🏻
@vagabonds5526 I do believe the talent will still rise to the top. I do know there are weird hits on free fall.
But you don’t think the weird string hits will further negatively impact the public image of the sport? Isn’t bowling having a hard enough of a time being taken seriously?
String pins is not bowling. It's an arcade game
They need to invent a camera that can see, count, the pins standing when the ball hits the back stop, then it just simply re spots the 2nd shot to what pins is supposed to be up. That way if a string caused a pin to fall it will be re spot.
Or just a better/reliable, less expensive, low maintenance regular pin setter
I just feel bad for those pins attached to a string that can't move out of the way when people hurl heavy spheres at them.
I refuse to watch PBA stringpin events, it's a clown shown. Why tf did usbc sanction stringpins?!
I can say this because I bowled League at a string pin house this year. Everything Ryan says is true.
I weep for the future of competitive bowling. I would also like to thank Bowlero for ruining the sport as well.
This is going to change the sport. I’m not against or for it but it will be different. This will award maximum pin movement. Two handers and power players will have an even bigger advantage. Just need to wrap the strings.
somehow walter still wins =P
That's what is so amazing LOL
Using a string ball on a free fall pins lane?
The globetrotters used a basketball with a string on it and everybody loved it!!
This will be the end of bowling
Music is a distraction. Had to mute.
Pins falling over that don’t even get touched
I believe the PBA banned almost all urethane balls because players were able to score & win playing straighter and with less flashy flying pins/messengers. They think the fans only want to see the balls hook from gutter to gutter and splash pins all over which urethane doesn't do. I don't think the PBA/Bowlero will go to strings as there are no explosive hits or flying messengers to excite the younger fans.
Urethane balls are not banned. They only changed the durometer (hardness) specifications. They cannot quite as soft as they used to, which is actually just the opposite of what you are alluding to. The 87 durometer balls (the ones that are legal) are actually slightly harder than the older ones, reducing the amount of hook. And it hasn't stopped the pro's from throwing urethane in the slightest. And FYI, messengers and bouncing pins off of the pin deck walls has been part of the game since its inception, it's even part of the playing strategy at times.
@@squidly2112 I stated "most urethane balls" and the legal durometer reading is 78 now, not 87 as you wrote above.
@@andy7268 - oh, sorry, typo .. meant 78. BTW, their excuse for changing the durometer specs was the claim that urethane balls get softer over time. That is a myth. They do NOT get softer over time. This has been thoroughly tested by others (see BrunsNick for example). But, still, the newer spec balls don't read the lane quite as early (hook as much). Not a lot of difference, very subtle, but, they are slightly harder surfaces than before.
And how exactly will the "pros" ability to "hook the ball from gutter to gutter" and "splash pins around" excite the younger fans, when the younger fans CAN'T do the same thing, because their center will have these damned string pins. while the "pros" wont?
I unfortunately had to retire from bowling 50+ years due to health concerns... but after having a wonderful amateur career I am grateful that I never had to deal with this string-pin nonsense... Bowling is in the process of being reduced to a carnival game... For me it was a competitive sport... Now, our future generations will see it as only a recreation... and a very expensive one at that...
I posted Ryan’s shot that, in my opinion, cost him the title. Very polarizing subject. Everyone is all for them or completely against them. There is no middle ground. The comments have been very entertaining.
I don’t understand the people in defense “that shot shouldn’t have struck anyway”
What would the response be if he rang a 10 and the string pulled it down to give him the W? I wonder what they’d come up with to defend that.
Walter Ray Williams Jr, come on man!!??
So, if messengers and free fall luck are not supposed to be part of the game, why do pins still have holes in the bottom, to this very day? .. Why are pins manufactured to specific specifications (size, weight, shape, bounce)? .. Why are pin decks manufactured to specific specifications, along with their side walls? .. It is because the "luck" and "messengers" that people here are talking about, have ALWAYS been an element of the game. A very specific element of the game. Taking that away with string pins changes the game and is no longer 10 pin bowling as it has been played since from about 1840. Bouncing the pins to take out other pins off of the pin deck walls has ALWAYS been part of the strategy of 10 pin bowling.
I will say that in Canada (where we have 5-pin bowling), string pulls were part of the game. I've only seen one 5-pin alley on TV that were freefall (out of the 10+ shows with 5-pin alleys that I've seen growing up), and the pin action was much different.
Also, everyone is on the same playing field so you can't complain about the pin action of string pins when everyone is bowling on them for this tournament.
I do wonder if power will trumo skill and simple chucking the ball as hard as possible straight at the pocket gives you enough string carry to make it work.
Coming soon a machine to load your ball into, set the dial for a hook or straight release, set back and watch the results. No more knuckle bumps with the guy you know never washes his hands. Avoid the stinky bowling center and just stay home and Wii bowl.
strings so bad forrest commented 3 times
It's definitely not there yet. lol
It's terrifying. Why should we see our sport ruined.....very upsetting.
And yet the USBC says there's no difference in averages. I call BS!
Cool video tech bowling strinpins bowling Michael
No string pins that is the end of this sport for sure😢
I Dont understand y Walter and webber and duke don't speak up about string pin bowling there the ambassador of PBA they know this is not the right direction for bowling this is so sad 😢
String pin will ruin bowling
Almost looks like trading one set of lucky/unlucky breaks for another.
As with pretty much every sport ever invented, there is an element of luck, however, with free fall pins it is un-interfered luck, with string pins you introduce luck with interference. I prefer the former. Was it luck that last week I picked up a big 4 split? .. probably so, but just by luck I struck the 4 pin just perfectly to take out the 6-10 .. and BOOM! .. picked up the big 4 !!! .. I could not have done that with string pins. Probably can't pick up a 7-10 split with them either. Or the common 4-7-10 or 6-7-10 .. which I have also done before. In fact I have picked up quite a few 4-7-10 splits, which means that really isn't by luck, I'm not that lucky.
And yet, the final match was 2 hall of famers (Walter Ray and Ryan Schafer) if some 200 avg noob had won, maybe there would be some issue. Everyone bowled under the same conditions and they still had to make good shots and cover their spares. I like free fall myself, but the costs of maintaining the free fall pinsetters is getting prohibitively expensive, parts for older equipment are getting scarce. The small mom and pop centers will have to close because they can't get parts for their A-20's and they can't spend 60k × 24 lanes to keep free fall an option.
I would suggest that the proper way to combat that problem would be better promotion of the sport, not destroying the sport by turning into a carnival game.
It’s because the bowling centers are too cheap to hire mechanics and pay if something breaks down. What a joke this is
No more ringing 10s i guess...
unless they put a bell on the end of the string instead of a pin!!
Wow I would have raged if I was Shaffer.. absolutely disgusting to see that messenger stop because damn strings, sickening..
Understandable but he also gladly accepted any "slop" strikes too. If you sign up for strings, you agree to take the lumps, good or bad. I'll never sign up. I'm close enough to retire from bowling if my center adopts and I'll just go play bocce.
if you are paying you still agree it is ok .i quit :)
Art one time they cried urethane should be illegal then reactives should be illegal then 2 hands should be illegal adapt or perish.
Or I'll just spend my money elsewhere and do something else. There are a whole lot of other things to do in life.
@@squidly2112 In context, I believe that's the "perish" option.
Actually, that's what will happen to the sport too. Funny, that.
I remember when high scores used to be illegal. My brother shot 267,300,300 in the late 80s and they disallowed the score. He didn't bowl very long after that.
@@ripvanrevs - I don't blame him, that would really suck. By the way, your brother was an AWESOME bowler !!!
This is all because of inflation and finding mechanics. I mean to operate a center and make a profit cost a ton of money. I think it will be a change but we will all adapt to do just like everything else. I am looking forward to bowling on string pins to see the difference myself. There are pros and cons but I think bowling overall will benifit from it. Now that shot Ryan threw on the last ball the 10 pin would of fell if it were regular pins
Oh HELL no
If you’re bowling in a sanctioned event on these, you get what you deserve for supporting this crap. It’s not real bowling, it’s arcade bowling
It does not pass the eye test. Bad breaks happen, but these pins are not falling in a natural manner, and to me it actually brings in question the integrity of the game. Sorry but not a fan….
They are trying to bring a carnival game to professional sports. People are being sold on a big lie!
I've said it before and I will continue saying it. We have string because of lazy fucking engineering..
String pin bowling is kinda like smoking fenty. I’m into it
Just another reason to not watch bowling.