Always start at the same side, This technique is also much used on watch movements, where we apply it in a Circular pattern moving inward from the outside in the same direction every circle.. Overlap of the circles should be about 50%.. i use a 3 mm "EveFlex"tool, and i move over 1½ mm every time..
I love engine turning so much! It has been my favorite metal finish ever since the first piece of engine turned anything I've ever seen. (It was my grandpa's hunting rifle bolt, for the record. It was my grandpa's favorite finish, too)
This is a very popular thing to do on fire trucks in the states after applying gold leaf to the signage. I leant it here in oz during my signwriting apprenticeship but it wasn't something one used enough to become good at, as gold leaf is extremely delicate and is not only expensive but prone to damage so easily. Appling it to other surfaces wasn't asked for or needed or cheap so as a skill it wasn't practiced.
Luke, I remember seeing what would now be considered a "vintage" fire truck when I was very young. When I was in kindergarten a grass fire broke out just opposite the kindergarten grounds and the local fire brigade attended. I was fascinated with the decoration on the truck, and the firemen's brass helmets. It is sad that many of the skills that you seem to have acquired are no longer affordable or maybe as valued as they used to be. Regards, Mark
Hi Mark, I've been hiding in the bushes for a long time and this video has flushed me out!! I love all your content and always come away with something new that I've learned. I currently have a home shop with a CNC router and 3D printer that I've been using and playing with. I design and build mostly parts for my 1940 Ford that I bought 20 years ago and I'm still changing things, hopefully improvements of what I did earlier. I'm going to use your technique for engine turning... Keep up the excellent work and if you would like a few pictures of my car let me know. Not sure if I might have sent them earlier, tough to get old..... Good'day mate, Peter
Thanks Peter. You did send me the photos of your car. A beautiful silver Ford V8. I was really impressed with the grille on that car. It's interesting because I had a conversation with an electroplater just a few days ago and we were discussing the process for chrome plating car parts back in the day when they did it properly. Usually a three stage process of copper, nickel and then chrome. These days they just plate straight over bare steel, usually with a nickel alloy and it doesn't last. Chrome is considered too toxic for the workers. However if you take your work to an old school electroplater you can still get it done to last. Keep up the great work. Regards, Mark
Gee's Mark your bringing back memories. I can remember doing this back in Form 2 (showing my age) on some metal work projects using a dowel and brasso. Nice work, and its your machine, and you can do what ever you like to it. Cam
I'm glad that you're anodizing your table after all the work you've done to it. It should increase the scratch resistance enough to preserve the look. You can even get fancier with a bright dye. I've been playing around with an ice bath to do small scale type III anodizing, and it does work. It wouldn't surprise me if you went with a chiller, but dying is limited due to the smaller pore size. A spring loaded holder might be an option for CNC engine turning. You could just smear the surface with an aggregate and run the job with cork as you did manually.
E Designs, I see you've had similar thinking on a spring loaded tool head to compensate wear. A query on anodising, does cast aluminium take an even anodic coat OK?
@@howardosborne8647 Cast aluminum typically does not anodize as well as 6XXX series, but it does work. I tried type III anodizing a cast part and it was a different color (gray), would not hold dye, and had a hazy finish, but it was scratch resistant. So I considered it a win. Type II works better on cast parts.
Nicely done. Probably the clearest, most thoughtful description of the process I've come across. Your insights on the offsets are particularly helpful. Thanks!
The cork is the spring. That thin probably ten thou give, but thicker yields more give. Could also laminate something together. At the "CNC" pro level though, it probably always gets done with abrasive rubber, because they remain at the same grit level as they wear, so no need to 'load the surface up fresh' to continue.
@@cosmicraysshotsintothelight The wear is from the cratex wearing in the z axis, the cork would wear but probably not enough to make a difference in a single cycle. Any chance you know what those cnc guys are using to filter the abrasive grit?
It is actually rooted in watchmaking and their surfaces had very tiny spirals imbued into them. Hey, I know what would look great... Tiny crop circle reproductions!
Hello Mark, great video, I'm considering doing my own turning on my dash bezel for my 79 Trans am. I'm a machinist by trade and have access to a cnc mill with mastercam software and have been programming for quite a few yrs. My only concern is getting the bezel apart and flat enough to do the turning on it. Anyway, you sais something about changing code as tool wears. as far as changing depth, you can just add whatever z number you want at whatever x,y line you want to change the z depth at. Your z will continue at that depth until you put a new z on future x,y lines. Example, initial z -.005" depth, run thru 10 xy locations and on the 11th xy line, change to z-.008", run thru 10 more lines, 11th line, change z again. I checked your code as its running thru and noticed every line has a z, once the machine reads the initial drilling cycle line, it will repeat thru all upcoming xy locations until it reads something else. You should be able to start your first "G82 line with the z and every line after will stay at that z unless you change it. G82 G90X10 Y5. R0.1 Z-.005 P0.75 next line can just be X11. Y5., next line X12. Y5. and so on, machine already knows the Z, the G82 ,the .1 clearance and the .75 dwell.Hope this makes sense.
Thanks for that. I must say I am very much a novice when it comes to writing GCode by hand. I would love to own Mastercam but it's out of my league. I have used Fusion360, CATIA and a Denford product called QuickCAM Pro but generally I didn't mess with the code once it was posted. Good old CamBam works for me but it is very basic. Most of the stuff I do is 2 1/2D. Having said that, one of my students once wrote a code that ran on a Denford CNC router and it played "Waltzing Matilda" by varying the feed rate on the stepper motors. He took the sheet music and converted the pentatonic scale to frequencies and then changed the feed rate and direction to emulate the musical score. He used dwell in the code to account for the rests in the music. He was way cleverer than I though. We miked up the router and played it to a large audience at the Parliament House in Canberra! Priceless. Regards, Mark
As usual very well demonstrated Mark. And as at least one other has already mentioned the process is used quite a bit by gunsmiths.And like scraped or flaked machine tool ways it has some friction reducing quality's. Plus it helps steel surfaces become a bit more rust resistant since it retains oil better. Both reasons are why it's used on rifle bolts beyond it's purely decorative effects. At one time it was seen on jewelry, pocket watches, watch dials,sterling silver cigarette cases etc. It's somewhat related to straight line guilloche and it's repeating patterns. And guilloche is somewhat related to Ornamental Turning.Your cnc could easily do guilloche or that OT as well. When jeweling curved surfaces such as rifle bolts they use not only the grinding medium but also a stiff wire rotary brush to help follow the radius. O rings are sometimes used around the wire brush to keep the wires from starting to splay out and ruining the pattern. On flat work it's helpful to have a scrap piece of metal of the same thickness as the piece your doing for the partial swirls around the parts perimeter since without that you can sometimes see subtle variations on those. In very high end jeweling everything I've read mentions mirror polishing the item first. There's never an explanation given as to why so my best guess is so your starting with a consistent surface finish that helps to maintain a consistent swirl pattern that reflects the light the same from each spot. Since the pattern is meant to reflect that light then small imperfections can be very noticeable. So the amount of time and pressure used on each swirl also needs to be as consistent as possible for the very best results on high quality work. Your band saw table might be a bit outside that requirement. :-) I'd just use a spring loaded holder for your Cratex and that way it's self adjusting for elevation and pressure.
Thanks for such a detailed response. I have a pocket watch with jewelliing on the inside of the cover and I had seen the guilloche patterns on some watches I saw while I was in Geneva Switzerland. I didn't know what that process was called and I just googled it so thanks for the heads up. Also a good idea to use a spring loaded arbor for the cratex point. I have a diamond drag engraving tool that uses the same principle so it could probably be adapted for that use. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 Just like the overlapping patterns with jeweling that guilloche can give some surprising effects in it's repeating pattern and how and where it reflects the light Mark. There's quite a few RUclips videos about the use of the old school straight line guilloche machines that some are still using in there specialty work that only the very rich can afford. The machines themselves and there pattern bars are pretty simple for what they can produce. One more you should Google is Geometric Chuck. Today very few know about them, but they can mechanically produce literally millions of different patterns depending on how the gear trains are set up, the part offsets and how many different levels there are to the chuck. Most on line and easily found information is still fairly limited in how detailed it is about those chucks and OT in general so I highly recommend a soft cover book authored by T.D. Walshaw titled Ornamental Turning. There's quite a bit about using the standard model engineers lathe (Myford Super 7 etc) boring heads, rotary tables or dividing heads to produce the simpler items of ornamental turning. Towards the back there's a very good explanation about how those geometric chucks work and an exploded view of a two stage chuck.This would be about the easiest and cheapest way to get it if your interested. www.teepublishing.co.uk/books/woodworking-woodturning/ornamental-turning/ Walshaw also shows how to produce the Ornamental Turning classic fish pattern using a common boring head and a specially sharpened tool.
Jeremy Ritsema good idea sir. Send it to Mark pronto he can turn off the boring straight line pattern and CNC the spiral onto the table. Would make his eyes go round and round when trying to cut a straight line! lol
Good Show Mate...as always. Leather stuck onto an old engine valve. I didn't have a fancy CNC machine. Wouldn't know how to program it if I had it. I do love though. Glad somebody knows how. That was fun. Still in my jammies. Be well.
@@Preso58 What you did was fine. I was just suggesting another way to remove the feline from its epidermis. A pencil with valve grinding compound on the eraser is a good way for tiny jeweling. Isn't it funny, the more you know the smarter you are. Who'da thunk it?
At one time you could buy those typewriter erasers that were fairly abrasive. I reckon a disc shaped piece cut out of one of those would be ideal for this application/ Regards, Mark
Taking my mind back to shop class in the days of the old work house. They wouldn't allow us to use tools for this procedure. We were given scraps of steel wool to use and would twist it while applying pressure to the metal surface. After completing six hours of work they might add coal to the fire or give us a bowl of gruel. If you did particularly good work a new set of cloths without holes. God how I miss the old days.
That's interesting. I had no idea it had been used on recent, well, 70's cars anyway. I loved the rear end on that car. I had a XB Falcon coupe which looked similar. Regards, Mark
I always find it fascinating how other people do the same jobs I do. Sometimes you can learn things. As a gunsmith, I do jewel bolts fairly often. I use a much easier method because it's cheap and it works with great results. You need a drill press with a cross slide. I stick a pencil in the chuck, eraser down. Coat the eraser with valve lapping compound fire up the drill press and start at one end. Simply count the rotations of the cross slide handle to adjust the pattern. Ex:. Three turns on y axis all down the row. Then offset your x axis and come back down again. For cylinders you can use an indexer. Stupid simple and I don't have to change the setup on the mill. I never thought about using my CNC to do engine turning, I bet you could come up with some really cool patterns. Also, is that a Colchester master round head I see lurking back there?
I would think to build a spring loaded tool. That way you could use automotive valve spring and valve spring tool to set up an installed height or working height in this case. That way, when your tool wears, a few thousandths would not change the spring pressure. Just program in a dwell and depth to depress the tool and return before traveling to the next possition
Looks great. Saw the Spirit of St Louis a few years ago. Bugatti used to do it on his engines. Masterpieces. Used to go in cafés with machine turned aluminium table tops. Hated it, the feel of the aluminium top and the scratching damage. Just looked cheap after a while. But not a criticism of your choice, I think it will work well here. Looks like fun.
I did add a .75 second dwell to the drilling cycle on my cam software (Cambam). I was thinking there would be a g code which would add wear compensation to the code. Regards, Mark
Like anodizing and bluing it makes it look like million bucks. I thought you were gona cnc the table, but I guess +/_ a mm doesn't matter. These training classes are great for new bees like myself. Thanks Mr Presling.
Sycamore (Platanus occidentalis) is popular for making cutting boards, any citrus fruit tree, olive, or sugar-berry (Iron-wood) sparks when you cut it with a chainsaw (noticeable in low light situations)
Very nice result in the end Mark. The CNC bit was awesome! I think the pumice didn't work because the grain structure of cast alli is quite open as opposed to the test piece where it is rolled during production, thus making the grain structure so much tighter,that said the valve grinding paste worked pretty well and gave a very good result, so now you have plenty of pumice to share between your French polishing and your feet............
I had been doing French polishing for years and never knew about pumice. Once I started using it I realised how well it worked to fill the grain on difficult timbers. I actually purchased a book many years ago which described the use of pumice but I figured that it was a really old text and the whole pumice thing was probably outdated but it turns out the old methods are sometimes the best. Regards, Mark
Wrong kind of dab, dude. Think of 'dabbing' paint to get a round splotch on the canvas. Oh... you still might not follow. OK. That was pretty funny though.
Nice job! This has been something I have wanted to try for a long time. You covered most of the issues I had considered. I better wrap up some other things and try it on the aluminum case I have pieces for before I assemble it.
The cork was interesting. It looks like a variation of lapping tbh. That said, I think a balsa wood would do a better job as the cork would have a sort of uneven grain. Also, if you used another metal that was just softer then the one you are working, like copper or something, that could work quite well too. Regardless, I look forward to having a play around with this
I just made an aluminium frame to go around the VHF in my boat. First I thought of this method, then I thought that it might be too much sun glare and was going to paint it black but now I decided that it will be worth some glare and engine turning it shall be.
Nice! A friend of mine used a dirty piece of leather (old welding glove lol) to polish up a 316 stainless ring. Bet that would work to... with the pumice 😊. Thanks for the share, cheers!
If I remember correctly this type of metal finish is used on fire trucks and outdoor utility enclosures. Funnily enough it was invented for surfaces where scratching is a problem because it hides scratches very well especially if it is a deep finish.
I did a bolt action from one of my rifles with a pencil eraser and comet cleanser powder. It did a good job . I like making the Mandrill then hot gluing cork to it. I might do that to my milling table.
Very nice. Seems if you can keep the spacing uniform through out the item, either hand or CNC comes out great. One of those issues that you have to stay with and don't get distracted. Thumbs Up!
Gary, I was thinking I had done a pretty good job until a guy in Instagram called Eamonn Keogh got in touch with me. He does classic car parts like rocker covers on Rolls Royce engines. Some of the parts are really complex shapes and I think he does it all by eye and with a flexible shaft drive polishing head. He even put the jewelling on the raised "R"s on the Rolls Royce logo. Absolutely amazing! There is no end to human ingenuity and skill. Regards, Mark
Great video.I think if you spray a bit of kerosine over the plate to use as a lubricant for the crates might help with both wear and surface finish.Then a clear anodising over the whole lot.
I badly wanted to try anodising the table but it is just a little too big to fit in my tank. I will be showing that process in the next video. Regards, Mark
George, I was right at the limit of what my little mill could do. I actually have a Bridgeport coming next week and it would be capable of doing a 24" square table. My current large milling machine doesn't have a quill so it was never going to be easy to do it on that. Regards, Mark
When someone talks about engine turning, i think of lathe or starting a motor. Isn't the preferred term for this process called jeweling. Just me thinking out loud... :D :D :D
The issue with the first try looks like being related to the fact that the cork is touching the edge of the piece which might be sharp and can scrape the powder out or damage the cork. Great video
I did cut some grooves across the surface of the cork to hold the abrasive better and that seemed to work well when I used the carborundum paste. The pumice worked fine on the rolled aluminium sheet though. Regards, Mark
I love engine turning. As a thought to the cnc method I would have thought the way to do it would be as a drilling program and then just increase the depth of the hole in CAM for each row or after every x 'holes' drilled for compensation.
Gus, I did use a drilling program in CamBam. There is a canned cycle that just needs a bit of tweaking. I set the depth to -0.2 and disabled the peck cycle. I tried the CNC method just to see if it would work and I didn't notice any excessive wear on the cratex as it went through the cycle. I guess if you were doing a lot of it you could just run the programme on single step and then use the quill by hand. But as you say, you could also edit the Gcode to increase the Z depth incrementally. Regards, Mark
Great job and well explained. I think buffing the table was a major plus to your success as it eased the edges on the plate sides and the miter channel. I didn’t ease the edges on a project I had and managed to tear up the mandrel surface about a 1/4 the way through the jeweling! Another issue is the RPM of the spindle. my experience (very limited) is slower is better than faster, but speed may have a greater effect on a particular metal (Al vs. Steel vs. brass)? Another test/demo?
I did notice that the steel mandrel was getting quite hot and a higher RPM could potentially burn the abrasive into the aluminium or scorch the cork. I think I was running at about 500 RPM and it seemed to be about right. Regards, Mark
Yes, they get quite raucous. We have had large flocks of sulphur crested cockatoos around lately. I tried to get some video of them but they can be hard to track when they get really excited. They behave like drunk vandals. Loud, unpredictable and destructive. They strip branches off the gum trees just for fun. Regards, Mark
I know that you can purchase "button shellac" which you can heat with a flame. It pretty much is the olde worlde version of hot glue. I have seen Clickspring using it a lot for securing parts for machining. Seems like good stuff to have. Regards, Mark
This looks like just the thing for the bed of my old Necchi BU sewing machine. Finish it with clear Cerakote so it doesn't rust, and spray the body of the machine in a nice Ferrari red. I bet that'd knock the eyes right out of your head, m8.
Spring loading the tool shank may be a simple way to compensate for the Cratex wearing down on a large panel. Certainly not as depth critical as just relying on the spindle depthing to maintain dab pressure.
Howard, I really didn't expect the cratex to work over such a large pattern. It actually seems to be fairly wear resistant if you can get a large contact area but certainly, having some sort of resilient cushion would help to apply a consistent pressure and allow for wear. Regards, Mark
How come when I watch a video put out by your fellow countryman, {xynudu} I get to hear the wonderful doves, talking (chirping / coo - ing) over him, but very seldom do I get to hear any wild life on your channel. You haven't eaten them have you? LOL!!! My guess, is that you do live next to what appear's to be a semi-busy road, hence closer to a town? Or, as soon as you turn off the video camera, you go full Crocodile Dundee that's a knife, and go hunting. LOL!!!!! Great video Mark, and wonderful insight into how to prepare for Jewelling / engine turning.
My wife and I were on holiday in New Zealand earlier this year (just before the virus outbreak) and in the UK and Europe last year. We both remarked how little bird life you could hear in those places. We actually live on acreage adjacent to a national park and we have resident populations of cockatoos, butcher birds, magpies, currawongs, kookaburras, lorikeets and occasionally some galahs. I should mention that eating native animals is an offence! Plus, I would rather eat chicken. 😁 Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 Mark, everybody know's that most of the time, your NOT eating chicken, but your actually eating Rooster(s,) because the chicken's are busy laying the egg's. LOL. Wink, Wink. I live on 5 acre's (one of approx. 75 tract's of land {all 5-acre's} in my development) (2 Hectares / 234.2822m².) It's like Russian Roulette, it's either, quite like a church, or it's like going to the animal / bird-Opera, loud and beautiful at the same time.
Nice video, I was wondering if a CNC machine would work well. I reckon Gumption or possibly Cif or equivalent may also work well as an abrasive, might be worth experimenting with.
Interesting. We got whole subway cars like this, I assume done in that case to break up the shiny stainless steel surface so it doesn't show scratches and the like as much.
Thanks for the video. A lot of useful information, including what worked and what did not work. I was also surprised the pumice did not work on the cast metal. I have hand cleaner which contains pumice. I wonder if this will work better than dry powder. I will have to do a test myself. The result looks amazing. Did you consider double sided tape to hold on the cork? Seems easier than the hot glue. I got a smile from the old toothbrush to apply the paste. It is amazing how many ways we can use old toothbrushes in the shop. Dave.
Dave, I am guessing that double sided tape would be fine. I did want to show that trick with heating up the mandrel though. I actually recorded a long diatribe on hot glue and "difficult to bond materials" It was something I found out when my son was trying to join some small aluminium parts to some styrene plastic. Every glue we tried failed but when we switched to hot glue it worked fine. He did have to heat up the aluminium part though to get a good bond. The video was getting too long so I cut it out. I don't know why the pumice failed on the cast surface. It just looked dull and fuzzy. Maybe the cast surface is still somewhat soft after casting. It will eventually age harden though. Regards, Mark
I do like the tip about heating up the metal before applying the hot glue. I can appreciate gluing to styrene plastic being a challenge since so many solvents in glues will soften or dissolve the styrene. Dave.
Mark the most prevalent place it is used is on the bolts on bolt action rifles not the cheap ones but the higher quality rifles at least here in America
Lee, a few years ago I was in Lithgow, New South Wales. They used to make arms there, maybe they still do, I'm not sure. However they had the most amazing museum of handguns and long rifles. Some of the handguns were absolute works of art. Some of the engraving and surface treatments used were like nothing I had ever seen before. I'm not really a gun guy but I could appreciate the skill of the artisans that had done the work. Regards, Mark
Mark ... no time for engine turning .... spending my shop time on millions of rivets on my steam tractor... great veils series...
Always start at the same side, This technique is also much used on watch movements, where we apply it in a Circular pattern moving inward from the outside in the same direction every circle..
Overlap of the circles should be about 50%.. i use a 3 mm "EveFlex"tool, and i move over 1½ mm every time..
I love engine turning so much! It has been my favorite metal finish ever since the first piece of engine turned anything I've ever seen. (It was my grandpa's hunting rifle bolt, for the record. It was my grandpa's favorite finish, too)
is it possible to do this on 1/8" thick aluminum and clear coat it for outdoor sign? How long will clear coat last?
It's a joy watching someone doing decorative work just for the fun in the process. Stay well, your videos make my day.
Roy, I love it when a plan comes together!
Regards,
Mark
This is a very popular thing to do on fire trucks in the states after applying gold leaf to the signage. I leant it here in oz during my signwriting apprenticeship but it wasn't something one used enough to become good at, as gold leaf is extremely delicate and is not only expensive but prone to damage so easily. Appling it to other surfaces wasn't asked for or needed or cheap so as a skill it wasn't practiced.
Luke, I remember seeing what would now be considered a "vintage" fire truck when I was very young. When I was in kindergarten a grass fire broke out just opposite the kindergarten grounds and the local fire brigade attended. I was fascinated with the decoration on the truck, and the firemen's brass helmets. It is sad that many of the skills that you seem to have acquired are no longer affordable or maybe as valued as they used to be.
Regards,
Mark
Great result and demonstration. Workshops around the world will be sparkling..........to a disco beat.
Hi Mark, I've been hiding in the bushes for a long time and this video has flushed me out!! I love all your content and always come away with something new that I've learned. I currently have a home shop with a CNC router and 3D printer that I've been using and playing with. I design and build mostly parts for my 1940 Ford that I bought 20 years ago and I'm still changing things, hopefully improvements of what I did earlier.
I'm going to use your technique for engine turning...
Keep up the excellent work and if you would like a few pictures of my car let me know. Not sure if I might have sent them earlier, tough to get old.....
Good'day mate,
Peter
Thanks Peter. You did send me the photos of your car. A beautiful silver Ford V8. I was really impressed with the grille on that car. It's interesting because I had a conversation with an electroplater just a few days ago and we were discussing the process for chrome plating car parts back in the day when they did it properly. Usually a three stage process of copper, nickel and then chrome. These days they just plate straight over bare steel, usually with a nickel alloy and it doesn't last. Chrome is considered too toxic for the workers. However if you take your work to an old school electroplater you can still get it done to last. Keep up the great work.
Regards,
Mark
Gee's Mark your bringing back memories. I can remember doing this back in Form 2 (showing my age) on some metal work projects using a dowel and brasso. Nice work, and its your machine, and you can do what ever you like to it.
Cam
I think a lot of metalworking students would have seen this technique at some point. It's easy to do but it looks a million dollars.
Regards,
Mark
I'm glad that you're anodizing your table after all the work you've done to it. It should increase the scratch resistance enough to preserve the look. You can even get fancier with a bright dye.
I've been playing around with an ice bath to do small scale type III anodizing, and it does work. It wouldn't surprise me if you went with a chiller, but dying is limited due to the smaller pore size.
A spring loaded holder might be an option for CNC engine turning. You could just smear the surface with an aggregate and run the job with cork as you did manually.
E Designs, I see you've had similar thinking on a spring loaded tool head to compensate wear. A query on anodising, does cast aluminium take an even anodic coat OK?
@@howardosborne8647 Cast aluminum typically does not anodize as well as 6XXX series, but it does work. I tried type III anodizing a cast part and it was a different color (gray), would not hold dye, and had a hazy finish, but it was scratch resistant. So I considered it a win. Type II works better on cast parts.
Nicely done. Probably the clearest, most thoughtful description of the process I've come across. Your insights on the offsets are particularly helpful. Thanks!
Thanks for that. I am glad you enjoyed it.
Regards,
Mark
Nice! If I was doing a run of these on cnc, I'd be looking at making a spring loaded tool, to account for the wear... top class job tho! 👌
The cork is the spring. That thin probably ten thou give, but thicker yields more give. Could also laminate something together. At the "CNC" pro level though, it probably always gets done with abrasive rubber, because they remain at the same grit level as they wear, so no need to 'load the surface up fresh' to continue.
@@cosmicraysshotsintothelight The wear is from the cratex wearing in the z axis, the cork would wear but probably not enough to make a difference in a single cycle. Any chance you know what those cnc guys are using to filter the abrasive grit?
+1 I was thinking the same. Added advantage is the spring will compensate for small undulations in the stock.
It came out very nice by hand
Finally a family friendly work shop channel
It would look great on a mailbox. Many artists use this technique for their artwork background parts. Looks awesome!!
It is actually rooted in watchmaking and their surfaces had very tiny spirals imbued into them. Hey, I know what would look great... Tiny crop circle reproductions!
You definitely have the bandsaw with the most bling!
That bandsaw table looks F-F-Fine. Great job and great video!
Hello Mark, great video, I'm considering doing my own turning on my dash bezel for my 79 Trans am. I'm a machinist by trade and have access to a cnc mill with mastercam software and have been programming for quite a few yrs. My only concern is getting the bezel apart and flat enough to do the turning on it. Anyway, you sais something about changing code as tool wears. as far as changing depth, you can just add whatever z number you want at whatever x,y line you want to change the z depth at. Your z will continue at that depth until you put a new z on future x,y lines. Example, initial z -.005" depth, run thru 10 xy locations and on the 11th xy line, change to z-.008", run thru 10 more lines, 11th line, change z again. I checked your code as its running thru and noticed every line has a z, once the machine reads the initial drilling cycle line, it will repeat thru all upcoming xy locations until it reads something else. You should be able to start your first "G82 line with the z and every line after will stay at that z unless you change it. G82 G90X10 Y5. R0.1 Z-.005 P0.75 next line can just be X11. Y5., next line X12. Y5. and so on, machine already knows the Z, the G82 ,the .1 clearance and the .75 dwell.Hope this makes sense.
Thanks for that. I must say I am very much a novice when it comes to writing GCode by hand. I would love to own Mastercam but it's out of my league. I have used Fusion360, CATIA and a Denford product called QuickCAM Pro but generally I didn't mess with the code once it was posted. Good old CamBam works for me but it is very basic. Most of the stuff I do is 2 1/2D. Having said that, one of my students once wrote a code that ran on a Denford CNC router and it played "Waltzing Matilda" by varying the feed rate on the stepper motors. He took the sheet music and converted the pentatonic scale to frequencies and then changed the feed rate and direction to emulate the musical score. He used dwell in the code to account for the rests in the music. He was way cleverer than I though. We miked up the router and played it to a large audience at the Parliament House in Canberra! Priceless.
Regards,
Mark
Wow that looks great Mr P! Thanks for sharing!
As usual very well demonstrated Mark. And as at least one other has already mentioned the process is used quite a bit by gunsmiths.And like scraped or flaked machine tool ways it has some friction reducing quality's. Plus it helps steel surfaces become a bit more rust resistant since it retains oil better. Both reasons are why it's used on rifle bolts beyond it's purely decorative effects. At one time it was seen on jewelry, pocket watches, watch dials,sterling silver cigarette cases etc. It's somewhat related to straight line guilloche and it's repeating patterns. And guilloche is somewhat related to Ornamental Turning.Your cnc could easily do guilloche or that OT as well. When jeweling curved surfaces such as rifle bolts they use not only the grinding medium but also a stiff wire rotary brush to help follow the radius. O rings are sometimes used around the wire brush to keep the wires from starting to splay out and ruining the pattern. On flat work it's helpful to have a scrap piece of metal of the same thickness as the piece your doing for the partial swirls around the parts perimeter since without that you can sometimes see subtle variations on those.
In very high end jeweling everything I've read mentions mirror polishing the item first. There's never an explanation given as to why so my best guess is so your starting with a consistent surface finish that helps to maintain a consistent swirl pattern that reflects the light the same from each spot. Since the pattern is meant to reflect that light then small imperfections can be very noticeable. So the amount of time and pressure used on each swirl also needs to be as consistent as possible for the very best results on high quality work. Your band saw table might be a bit outside that requirement. :-) I'd just use a spring loaded holder for your Cratex and that way it's self adjusting for elevation and pressure.
Thanks for such a detailed response. I have a pocket watch with jewelliing on the inside of the cover and I had seen the guilloche patterns on some watches I saw while I was in Geneva Switzerland. I didn't know what that process was called and I just googled it so thanks for the heads up. Also a good idea to use a spring loaded arbor for the cratex point. I have a diamond drag engraving tool that uses the same principle so it could probably be adapted for that use.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Just like the overlapping patterns with jeweling that guilloche can give some surprising effects in it's repeating pattern and how and where it reflects the light Mark. There's quite a few RUclips videos about the use of the old school straight line guilloche machines that some are still using in there specialty work that only the very rich can afford. The machines themselves and there pattern bars are pretty simple for what they can produce. One more you should Google is Geometric Chuck. Today very few know about them, but they can mechanically produce literally millions of different patterns depending on how the gear trains are set up, the part offsets and how many different levels there are to the chuck.
Most on line and easily found information is still fairly limited in how detailed it is about those chucks and OT in general so I highly recommend a soft cover book authored by T.D. Walshaw titled Ornamental Turning. There's quite a bit about using the standard model engineers lathe (Myford Super 7 etc) boring heads, rotary tables or dividing heads to produce the simpler items of ornamental turning. Towards the back there's a very good explanation about how those geometric chucks work and an exploded view of a two stage chuck.This would be about the easiest and cheapest way to get it if your interested. www.teepublishing.co.uk/books/woodworking-woodturning/ornamental-turning/ Walshaw also shows how to produce the Ornamental Turning classic fish pattern using a common boring head and a specially sharpened tool.
With the CNC you can space a spiral pattern starting at the center working outward. It looks amazing. I have the G code if you want to demonstrate.
Jeremy Ritsema good idea sir. Send it to Mark pronto he can turn off the boring straight line pattern and CNC the spiral onto the table. Would make his eyes go round and round when trying to cut a straight line! lol
absolutely beautiful
What a great idea!
Great result Mark - loved both workpieces in the end. The cork mandrel and how to surface it was a great idea. Cheers, Craig
Thanks 👍
Good Show Mate...as always. Leather stuck onto an old engine valve. I didn't have a fancy CNC machine. Wouldn't know how to program it if I had it. I do love though. Glad somebody knows how. That was fun. Still in my jammies. Be well.
I actually had some leather, an old belt but it was just a tad too narrow for the mandrel I made. The cork was right next to it so....
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 What you did was fine. I was just suggesting another way to remove the feline from its epidermis. A pencil with valve grinding compound on the eraser is a good way for tiny jeweling. Isn't it funny, the more you know the smarter you are. Who'da thunk it?
We used to do model parts with a cut-off pencil in a drill chuck, using the eraser!
At one time you could buy those typewriter erasers that were fairly abrasive. I reckon a disc shaped piece cut out of one of those would be ideal for this application/
Regards,
Mark
Nice to see Mark doing such great work! It now makes it hard to use & abuse such a Concours d'Elegance class machine!
Taking my mind back to shop class in the days of the old work house. They wouldn't allow us to use tools for this procedure. We were given scraps of steel wool to use and would twist it while applying pressure to the metal surface. After completing six hours of work they might add coal to the fire or give us a bowl of gruel. If you did particularly good work a new set of cloths without holes. God how I miss the old days.
Sounds like the "Four Yorkshiremen" sketch that Monty Python did. 😁
Regards,
Mark
Looks great, the CNC version came out great. The best aussie version of this finish is the Dash in the E55 valiant charger, loved that Dash, so fancy.
That's interesting. I had no idea it had been used on recent, well, 70's cars anyway. I loved the rear end on that car. I had a XB Falcon coupe which looked similar.
Regards,
Mark
That is one flash band saw table. 👍
I always find it fascinating how other people do the same jobs I do. Sometimes you can learn things. As a gunsmith, I do jewel bolts fairly often. I use a much easier method because it's cheap and it works with great results. You need a drill press with a cross slide. I stick a pencil in the chuck, eraser down. Coat the eraser with valve lapping compound fire up the drill press and start at one end. Simply count the rotations of the cross slide handle to adjust the pattern. Ex:. Three turns on y axis all down the row. Then offset your x axis and come back down again. For cylinders you can use an indexer. Stupid simple and I don't have to change the setup on the mill. I never thought about using my CNC to do engine turning, I bet you could come up with some really cool patterns. Also, is that a Colchester master round head I see lurking back there?
My lathe is a Colchester Student Mk 1.5. It's a nice lathe but the headstock is notoriously noisy.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 nice! I'm just finishing restoring a 1967 Colchester Master Mk 1.5 myself.
I would think to build a spring loaded tool. That way you could use automotive valve spring and valve spring tool to set up an installed height or working height in this case. That way, when your tool wears, a few thousandths would not change the spring pressure. Just program in a dwell and depth to depress the tool and return before traveling to the next possition
Looks great. Saw the Spirit of St Louis a few years ago. Bugatti used to do it on his engines. Masterpieces.
Used to go in cafés with machine turned aluminium table tops. Hated it, the feel of the aluminium top and the scratching damage. Just looked cheap after a while. But not a criticism of your choice, I think it will work well here. Looks like fun.
Yes, it was totally unnecessary for the application but I liked the look and it was a good experiment.
Regards,
Mark
Wow Mark! Great video yet again! the term for cnc is dwell it can be used kinda like a peck cycle to break chips. i did this to a c clamp in school
I did add a .75 second dwell to the drilling cycle on my cam software (Cambam). I was thinking there would be a g code which would add wear compensation to the code.
Regards,
Mark
Like anodizing and bluing it makes it look like million bucks. I thought you were gona cnc the table, but I guess +/_ a mm doesn't matter. These training classes are great for new bees like myself. Thanks Mr Presling.
You continue to amaze with your craftsmanship.
Sycamore (Platanus occidentalis) is popular for making cutting boards, any citrus fruit tree, olive, or sugar-berry (Iron-wood) sparks when you cut it with a chainsaw (noticeable in low light situations)
Very nice result in the end Mark. The CNC bit was awesome! I think the pumice didn't work because the grain structure of cast alli is quite open as opposed to the test piece where it is rolled during production, thus making the grain structure so much tighter,that said the valve grinding paste worked pretty well and gave a very good result, so now you have plenty of pumice to share between your French polishing and your feet............
I had been doing French polishing for years and never knew about pumice. Once I started using it I realised how well it worked to fill the grain on difficult timbers. I actually purchased a book many years ago which described the use of pumice but I figured that it was a really old text and the whole pumice thing was probably outdated but it turns out the old methods are sometimes the best.
Regards,
Mark
😮 gracias muy bien esplicado
Amazing results. Fabulous 👏👏👍😀
‘Just put it in the drill press and dabbed’. I imagine him doing the dance move next to drill press.
Wrong kind of dab, dude. Think of 'dabbing' paint to get a round splotch on the canvas. Oh... you still might not follow. OK. That was pretty funny though.
Pretty spiffy Mark,good job.!!
Great video! Always something new from you which makes your videos so enjoyable!
Nice one. Thanks.
Nice work, looks great! The CNC version looks very nice, and now I want a CNC even more 😊.
Take care and stay safe.
The CNC was impressive
Awesome work as usual Mark, Thanks mate
Nice job! This has been something I have wanted to try for a long time. You covered most of the issues I had considered. I better wrap up some other things and try it on the aluminum case I have pieces for before I assemble it.
Fascinating Mark! thanks for sharing Keep safe!
NICE JOB MARK,, LOOKS REALY NICE,, REGARDS FROM RICHARD IN THE U.K.
Really nice job Mark!
The cork was interesting. It looks like a variation of lapping tbh.
That said, I think a balsa wood would do a better job as the cork would have a sort of uneven grain.
Also, if you used another metal that was just softer then the one you are working, like copper or something, that could work quite well too.
Regardless, I look forward to having a play around with this
New subber, I've been binge watching your videos today and obviously, I guess, I love your content. Thanks for sharing.
Welcome aboard. Lots of new content coming your way soon.
Regards,
Mark
I just made an aluminium frame to go around the VHF in my boat. First I thought of this method, then I thought that it might be too much sun glare and was going to paint it black but now I decided that it will be worth some glare and engine turning it shall be.
That's going to look great.
Regards,
Preso
Looking good Preso, great video as always.
Thank you! 😊
Regards,
Mark
Hey mate, this is a great video! You have a huge amount of knowledge and interesting ideas so thank you for sharing
Nice! A friend of mine used a dirty piece of leather (old welding glove lol) to polish up a 316 stainless ring. Bet that would work to... with the pumice 😊. Thanks for the share, cheers!
Leather would work great. It is firm but absorbent and it wears well.
Regards,
Mark
If I remember correctly this type of metal finish is used on fire trucks and outdoor utility enclosures. Funnily enough it was invented for surfaces where scratching is a problem because it hides scratches very well especially if it is a deep finish.
You know it's good when you hit like at the start of the video!!!!
Great job as usual mate, well done.
Fire tucks have this as it works well to hide scratching. Also you should mirror polish the part before hand........
I did a bolt action from one of my rifles with a pencil eraser and comet cleanser powder. It did a good job . I like making the Mandrill then hot gluing cork to it.
I might do that to my milling table.
Gonna try this for sure! Super cool.
Very nice. Seems if you can keep the spacing uniform through out the item, either hand or CNC comes out great. One of those issues that you have to stay with and don't get distracted. Thumbs Up!
Gary,
I was thinking I had done a pretty good job until a guy in Instagram called Eamonn Keogh got in touch with me. He does classic car parts like rocker covers on Rolls Royce engines. Some of the parts are really complex shapes and I think he does it all by eye and with a flexible shaft drive polishing head. He even put the jewelling on the raised "R"s on the Rolls Royce logo. Absolutely amazing! There is no end to human ingenuity and skill.
Regards,
Mark
A wire wheel works (on the cork pad) if you have a light touch
nice job
Very fine work sir. Looks great!
Thanks for watching
Regards,
Mark
Mark the band saw table, I mean disco table turned out quite nicely.
Great video.I think if you spray a bit of kerosine over the plate to use as a lubricant for the crates might help with both wear and surface finish.Then a clear anodising over the whole lot.
I badly wanted to try anodising the table but it is just a little too big to fit in my tank. I will be showing that process in the next video.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 How does your cast aluminium react to the anodising process?
A roloc disc works great aswell
Nice job Mark think I will try it on my band saw buy it’s table is 24 inches square!
George, I was right at the limit of what my little mill could do. I actually have a Bridgeport coming next week and it would be capable of doing a 24" square table. My current large milling machine doesn't have a quill so it was never going to be easy to do it on that.
Regards,
Mark
mmmmmmm shiny! .... Worked a treat!
When someone talks about engine turning, i think of lathe or starting a motor. Isn't the preferred term for this process called jeweling. Just me thinking out loud... :D :D :D
The issue with the first try looks like being related to the fact that the cork is touching the edge of the piece which might be sharp and can scrape the powder out or damage the cork. Great video
I did cut some grooves across the surface of the cork to hold the abrasive better and that seemed to work well when I used the carborundum paste. The pumice worked fine on the rolled aluminium sheet though.
Regards,
Mark
I love engine turning. As a thought to the cnc method I would have thought the way to do it would be as a drilling program and then just increase the depth of the hole in CAM for each row or after every x 'holes' drilled for compensation.
Gus, I did use a drilling program in CamBam. There is a canned cycle that just needs a bit of tweaking. I set the depth to -0.2 and disabled the peck cycle. I tried the CNC method just to see if it would work and I didn't notice any excessive wear on the cratex as it went through the cycle. I guess if you were doing a lot of it you could just run the programme on single step and then use the quill by hand. But as you say, you could also edit the Gcode to increase the Z depth incrementally.
Regards,
Mark
3m spray adhesive is good for gluing or contact cement works well aswell. What if you use polishing compound like autosol rather than abrasive.
Ripper Good !!!💯👏👏👏
Yep got to have a go at this.
Great job and well explained. I think buffing the table was a major plus to your success as it eased the edges on the plate sides and the miter channel. I didn’t ease the edges on a project I had and managed to tear up the mandrel surface about a 1/4 the way through the jeweling! Another issue is the RPM of the spindle. my experience (very limited) is slower is better than faster, but speed may have a greater effect on a particular metal (Al vs. Steel vs. brass)? Another test/demo?
I did notice that the steel mandrel was getting quite hot and a higher RPM could potentially burn the abrasive into the aluminium or scorch the cork. I think I was running at about 500 RPM and it seemed to be about right.
Regards,
Mark
Since cork is an insulator,apply the hot glue to it and then attach it to the mandrel. No need to heat the mandrel.
I heard a kookaburra in the background. 😊 I feel sorry for you when they gather in large groups.
Yes, they get quite raucous. We have had large flocks of sulphur crested cockatoos around lately. I tried to get some video of them but they can be hard to track when they get really excited. They behave like drunk vandals. Loud, unpredictable and destructive. They strip branches off the gum trees just for fun.
Regards,
Mark
Shellac would be a good option to stick the cork , I use it to stick copper parts to steel on the lathe
I know that you can purchase "button shellac" which you can heat with a flame. It pretty much is the olde worlde version of hot glue. I have seen Clickspring using it a lot for securing parts for machining. Seems like good stuff to have.
Regards,
Mark
Wonder how that drill press table would hold up with a "triple" marine anodizing? The sort they do to stand up to salt water exposure for years.
This looks like just the thing for the bed of my old Necchi BU sewing machine. Finish it with clear Cerakote so it doesn't rust, and spray the body of the machine in a nice Ferrari red. I bet that'd knock the eyes right out of your head, m8.
I would be adding racing stripes too.😁
Spring loading the tool shank may be a simple way to compensate for the Cratex wearing down on a large panel. Certainly not as depth critical as just relying on the spindle depthing to maintain dab pressure.
Howard, I really didn't expect the cratex to work over such a large pattern. It actually seems to be fairly wear resistant if you can get a large contact area but certainly, having some sort of resilient cushion would help to apply a consistent pressure and allow for wear.
Regards,
Mark
Thanks that was great , need one of them fancy cnc things. Dwayne NZ .
Yes, they are scary and useful at the same time. I have broken more cutters on that little machine than any other in my shop.
Regards,
Mark
awesome
Excellent tutorial! You have a new subscriber 😊👍
Thanks for the sub!
Regards,
Mark
Awesome! Thanks Mark!
How come when I watch a video put out by your fellow countryman, {xynudu} I get to hear the wonderful doves, talking (chirping / coo - ing) over him, but very seldom do I get to hear any wild life on your channel. You haven't eaten them have you? LOL!!! My guess, is that you do live next to what appear's to be a semi-busy road, hence closer to a town? Or, as soon as you turn off the video camera, you go full Crocodile Dundee that's a knife, and go hunting. LOL!!!!! Great video Mark, and wonderful insight into how to prepare for Jewelling / engine turning.
My wife and I were on holiday in New Zealand earlier this year (just before the virus outbreak) and in the UK and Europe last year. We both remarked how little bird life you could hear in those places. We actually live on acreage adjacent to a national park and we have resident populations of cockatoos, butcher birds, magpies, currawongs, kookaburras, lorikeets and occasionally some galahs. I should mention that eating native animals is an offence! Plus, I would rather eat chicken. 😁
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Mark, everybody know's that most of the time, your NOT eating chicken, but your actually eating Rooster(s,) because the chicken's are busy laying the egg's. LOL. Wink, Wink. I live on 5 acre's (one of approx. 75 tract's of land {all 5-acre's} in my development) (2 Hectares / 234.2822m².) It's like Russian Roulette, it's either, quite like a church, or it's like going to the animal / bird-Opera, loud and beautiful at the same time.
i used to do this with a drill bit that i just spun on some steelwool. it makes a good result ;)
Absolutely. Practically anything that's abrasive will create the pattern.
Regards,
Mark
Why didnt you put the glue on the cork first.NICE job
Either way works but you still need to get the steel up to the melting point of the hot glue stick. That's the key.
Regards,
Mark
Eleventy million!
Very cool!
Nice video, I was wondering if a CNC machine would work well.
I reckon Gumption or possibly Cif or equivalent may also work well as an abrasive, might be worth experimenting with.
There's plenty of scope for experimentation with this process.
Regards,
Mark
Beautiful
Nice....
Interesting. We got whole subway cars like this, I assume done in that case to break up the shiny stainless steel surface so it doesn't show scratches and the like as much.
Thanks for the video. A lot of useful information, including what worked and what did not work. I was also surprised the pumice did not work on the cast metal. I have hand cleaner which contains pumice. I wonder if this will work better than dry powder. I will have to do a test myself.
The result looks amazing. Did you consider double sided tape to hold on the cork? Seems easier than the hot glue.
I got a smile from the old toothbrush to apply the paste. It is amazing how many ways we can use old toothbrushes in the shop.
Dave.
Dave, I am guessing that double sided tape would be fine. I did want to show that trick with heating up the mandrel though. I actually recorded a long diatribe on hot glue and "difficult to bond materials" It was something I found out when my son was trying to join some small aluminium parts to some styrene plastic. Every glue we tried failed but when we switched to hot glue it worked fine. He did have to heat up the aluminium part though to get a good bond.
The video was getting too long so I cut it out. I don't know why the pumice failed on the cast surface. It just looked dull and fuzzy. Maybe the cast surface is still somewhat soft after casting. It will eventually age harden though.
Regards,
Mark
I do like the tip about heating up the metal before applying the hot glue. I can appreciate gluing to styrene plastic being a challenge since so many solvents in glues will soften or dissolve the styrene.
Dave.
Mark the most prevalent place it is used is on the bolts on bolt action rifles not the cheap ones but the higher quality rifles at least here in America
Lee, a few years ago I was in Lithgow, New South Wales. They used to make arms there, maybe they still do, I'm not sure. However they had the most amazing museum of handguns and long rifles. Some of the handguns were absolute works of art. Some of the engraving and surface treatments used were like nothing I had ever seen before. I'm not really a gun guy but I could appreciate the skill of the artisans that had done the work.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 yes i agree they are not only usable tools but beautiful works of art
At first I was wondering why you had your jacket laying right on your machine...Ahhh I see what it is now.